Spacious West Loop Townhouse for a Condo Price: 1137 W. Monroe
We last chattered about this 4-level three bedroom townhouse at 1137 W. Monroe in the West Loop in June 2009.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
It has been reduced by about $100,000 since it was originally listed in April 2009.
At under $550,000, this townhouse is now similarly priced to many larger condos in the area.
The townhouse has a family room as well as 3 outdoor spaces. The kitchen has cherry cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite countertops.
Is this now a steal for a move-up West Loop buyer?
Renee Yuditsky at Prudential Rubloff still has the listing. See more pictures and the virtual tour here.
See the property’s website here.
Unit #8: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in September 2006 for $565,000
- Sold in May 2007 for $627,500
- Originally listed in April 2009 for $649,500
- Reduced several times
- Was listed in June 2009 at $615,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $549,000
- Assessments of $205 a month
- Taxes of $7873
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 15×15 (fourth level)
- Bedroom #2: 13×12 (third level)
- Bedroom #3: 13×12 (third level)
- Family room: 17×12 (main level)
nice place for the price…
I made an oral offer 550k back in the summer, and they don’t want to discuss about it. Now they are selling for less.
There were many competition in the complex, now as others are sold and the extended tax credit for move up buyers, I bet it will sell eventually.
The owners must have lost a lot on this, they bought at 620k.
550k is a “condo price”? How long until its a townhouse price or a SFH price? 2-3 years I’d guess.
“I made an oral offer 550k back in the summer, and they don’t want to discuss about it. Now they are selling for less.”
And have also *already* lost over $15k in interest, taxes and assessments they could have avoided paying if they’d accepted your summer offer (assuming a quick, summertime closing). Nevermind how many more months they may need to wait.
LOL these owners should kick themselves… hard
Or kick their realtor…
The agent told us they had rejected higher offer than my 550k, if they read more real estate forecast they would know chicago house price will fall another 4 percent to 2010, especially when the tax credit is not extended to move-up buyers, this townhome market was essentially dead.
I really hope they sell and sell at a price close to what they asked. Poor homeowners really suffered in this recession.
521k is a good price for this. It will sell to an over-leveraged DINK couple with a 80/10 piggyback loan and still get conforming rates.
Bob when listed at $615,000: “That being said this is a nice place and I really like the finishes. Given the location they might come out of this with nary a nick. I guess it sells at or near ask.”
Bob when listed at $549,000: “521k is a good price for this. It will sell to an over-leveraged DINK couple with a 80/10 piggyback loan and still get conforming rates.”
Just sayin.
Are there enough people in Chicago with salaries that would support such a place?
“The agent told us they had rejected higher offer than my 550k”
its because of the sellers stigma of my house is special and the world outside of this door doesnt affect it. even if its the cookie cutter 2/2 condo its special.
“Are there enough people in Chicago with salaries that would support such a place?”
Well, maybe. The hard part here would not be servicing the $417k mtg + assess + taxes (~#3k/month, b4 any tax bennies), but having the $100k+ for a DP to get the conforming loan and not having any other substantial debt. ~$3k/month underwrites nicely at a HH income of a little over $100k.
The better question is whether there are enough such HHs who want to live *here*. Apparently there were at least 2 this past summer, but the seller turned down their offers.
apparently there was at least 2 who was willing to buy except for being rejected.
darn it!
Maybe I’m old fashioned, or just miserly, I don’t know which one, but I don’t know of a single household making $100,000 a year or low low six-figs that pays $3,000 or more a month for PITI. I know that $3k a month is roughly 30% of gross income but that seems like a lot to me…most households I know earning in the low six figs are paying between $1,000 and $2,000 in rent….but in my bankruptcy/foreclosure practice the household incomes I see with the $3,000 a month mortgages also seemed to be the same households with the $600 a month car payments and $50,000 in credit card debt spread over WaMu & Well & BofA.
“most households I know earning in the low six figs are paying between $1,000 and $2,000 in rent”
Is it also true that most HHs you know in the low 6-figs have high 5-fig student loans? Makes a big diff.
Assuming that prices settle in to the ballpark of current short sales, when you buy HD, are you *really* going to buy a place with PITI of ~$2k? Keeping in mind that T+I is probably going to be $500-700 of that?
“but in my bankruptcy/foreclosure practice the household incomes I see with the $3,000 a month mortgages also seemed to be the same households with the $600 a month car payments and $50,000 in credit card debt spread over WaMu & Well & BofA.”
That’s because you deal with idiots that overextend themselves. I don’t know any low six figure households that pay 3k a month in PITI either, mainly because I don’t know anyone that stupid.
Sonies, we’re in agreement! We agree that $3k a month in PITI on a $100k income might make good bank underwriting but terrible personal finances.
Anon(tfo), student loan interest rates have generally been very low the last decade so people like me are paying 2.5%, or in my case now, 2.38% on their lows, which is low enough that $100k a is completely manageable. $100k at 2.5% is less than $400 a month.
Anon(tfo), when I buy I want a PITI of $2,000 to $2,300, after a 20% down payment.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4028-W-Grace-St-60641/home/13458167
Recent sale in my ‘hood. $369,000, listed at $399k, under K in two weeks.
20% down is $296k mortgage, $1,600 PI +$400k taxes and then add a little for insurance.
It is possible, this is pretty damn near the bottom at this point as far as the median price goes. The median price will trend sideways for a few years but better deals are to be had, nicer homes for the same or better money in a few years time.
They seem to be chasing the market down, but at least these seems to be a decent price for the space (even though the s.f. isn’t listed). As a sidenote, I am almost positive that this townhome falls in the neighborhood boundary of Skinner, so a couple with a young(ish) child could (theoretically) do well here for a few years. For people who like living in the city, this part of the West Loop is fairly nice. Lots to walk to, Skinner park nearby, close to downtown and numerous daycare facilities in the area, etc. I’ll be curious to see what this sells for.
“Just sayin.”
Okay I was off but heres my logic: I didn’t think they’d be able to take a substantial haircut on this place and still sell. So I was guessing they either find a greater fool or this goes into foreclosure.
_Maybe_ they found their buyers this summer but the financing fell through. Had it not fallen through my prediction would’ve likely been spot on (getting out with nary a nick).
Also my guesses are based on logical sellers. Perhaps I need to account for the behavioral finance aspects that often times people get anchored to a particular price in their head and make irrational decisions.
*this* not “these”
I plead fatigue.
$100k income = $ 5,750/month take home
It is not ‘terrible personal finances’ to pay half of this in PITI, that a sad piece of monday morning quarter backing. Sure it has been a poor investment choice for the last couple of years but the real kicker here is other financial obligations and the market bubble. If we look at true disposable income, taking out loan payments etc then 50% of your disposable on your home has been a very reasonable piece of financial decision-making over the past 20 years. I am neither a bull or bear on current pricing but it’s a predictable piece of told-you-so to criticize people for their decisions in how they spend their income. Over-leverage from flippers, overbuilding and people buying property they could not afford to pay for if prices failed to rise are the major causes of the current predicament not people choosing their home over a new car or a holiday in the caribbean. I for one have spent 50% of my disposable income on either rent or PITI for the past 10 years and have enjoyed living in great homes in nice areas. I would not take that back so i could play schadenfreude on CC.
It’s not a about schadenfreude. A bunch of us are ticked off by subsidization of home ownership and the mispricing of scarce resources that have come from poor public and tax policy.
“It’s not a about schadenfreude”
Maybe not for you, but HD has used the word a number of times and Bob has also reveled in the apaprent “misfortune” of a number of owners.
The concept of spending >50% of take-home pay on shelter is so completely shocking to me. The most I’ve ever done was about 35% and that was tough to swallow. No thanks. I’d rather take great vacations, spend plenty of time boozing with friends, and save up money for an early retirement.
It’s definitely not schadenfreude for me. It’s the feeling that some people have priorities that don’t make any sense at all and a little bit of anger that the policies that encourage such behavior hurt me. I’d be totally fine with it if it had nothing to do with me. But it does. It’s a war on savers. Artificially low interest rates. High inflation. Systemic risk. Inflated asset prices.
Three outdoor parking spaces will never equal one parking garage. Bet most buyers at this complex came from out-of-town, and had no experience with Chicago’s snow quanity nor salt-crazy snow policy. Outdoor parking is no good for the requisite BMW or Lexus SUV.
It has a 2 car garage. The 3 outdoor spaces refer to decks, etc.
neo:
You are that guy with the really sweet barely furnished pad; you know the place: a card table in the dining room and nothing but a mattress and a duffel bag on the bedroom floor? One bottle of shampoo and a bar of soap in the shower! A stainless steel fridge that has nothing in it but ice, cold water, beer and maybe leftover pizza? A 65″ TV but nothing on the windows to block the glare!
GLS, I share your frustration with public policy. I think in the US at least there has been a push towards home ownership primarily because Americans have on average been incredibly poor at saving any other way. However as Tipster points out the asset bubbles and dis-incentive to savers from artificially low interest rates and industry specific tax breaks makes that problem worse. Back when i was a young economist stagflation (inflation and a stagnant economy) was used as a worst case scenario of loose monetary policy. It is hard to see how that will be avoid in the next 3-5 years. However real estate is not one of the assets that will typically experience increase in that kind of environment. In didn’t in the 70’s. So back to the gold standard i guess.
HD, don’t presume to tell me who I am. I pondered not dignifying your comment with a response but it gets in the way of the adults talking.
I’ll dignify your response by saying the only people (other than you) that I’m aware of that spend 50% of their take-home income or in their case disposable income on housing is the working poor. They take home $2,000 a month and rent is $900 or $1,000. They also have a kid or two or three or a parent or two that is also being supported. Trust me, they aren’t living the high life. And like I said the people who are making $90k or $100k a year and paying $3,000 or more a month on housing, especially in the case where they are trying to support a family, they’re skating on thin ice. I suppose single guy could spend $3,000 on housing and have $2,400 left over..$600 for the car payment, $800-1000 on food (eating out a lot), utilities, gas, car insurance, and then it’s mostly gone. Damn, making a $100k a year and living paycheck to paycheck.
“$600 for the car payment”
You spend too much on a car. Why would anyone ever finance a depreciating asset like that? That’s poor financial planning!
If you are making $100k/year and only taking home $5750/month you need to see tax accountant stat. Especially if you own your place.
Oh anon(tfo), haahahah, you’ve never seen the ins and outs of subprime car financing….those car salesmen are predators, they are, and they can smell the prey from far away….
but even more than than, I had a boss in the late 1990’s; his car note (maybe it was leased? I don’t know) was $800 a month for his lexus SUV; I remember I was in my 20’s and I was a little peeved that this guy was driving an $800 a month car yet I was student and he was paying me $10.00 an hour; he was driving that car because of the sweat off my back. It was then that I decided I was a hardcore socialist. just kidding about the socialist part, but, I realized how insane people get abuot cars. this is america, we have a car culture, and people pay top dollar for their cars.
“Why would anyone ever finance a depreciating asset like that?”
$5,750 take hoe is completely reasonable for a single person with a w-2, no kids and rents. They pay the highest tax rate, basically, to pay for the EIC and child tax credits for those who chose to have children and file as head of household. 40pc of the country pays no federal income tax.
12 X $5750 = $69,000 take home pay from gross of $100,000
SS and Medicare = 7.65%
IL tax = 3%
Federal tax = 20%
The problem with this place is the west loop. Why live in the west loop with pretty high taxes and pay private school? All the sellers in this development have kids and are looking for that buyer that is on kid one that has not looked into the school issues. And let’s face it the west loop just isn’t that great.
I just can’t see housing prices stop sliding until the unemployment rate stabilizes then starts retreating. This economy will recover without much job gain, so how can housing prices ever go up or bett yet, stop sliding?
The big investors are still damn scared about releasing their money tied up in T-Bills. Although the treasury auction showed that the yields are going up, I haven’t seen enough cash flowing back into equities to prompt growth.
Even if CS index is showing some life, what about activity in the more expense housing? I know that cheap condos are being gobbled up with cash in California, but the higher end of the market is still pretty much dead.
I think there will be another price cut if the property does not move by Christmas. I’d like to see the black friday sales figure in detail to see the consumer’s mood.
“I just can’t see housing prices stop sliding until the unemployment rate stabilizes”
JH,
They already have stopped sliding even while the unemployment rate has been rising. This is because the government has been spending trillions of dollars to move renters into to the homeowner category.
Just look at a Case Shiller graph: the 8k homebuyers tax credit, quantitative easing and the FHA have all worked in concert to provide the small bump in the index we’ve seen this year.
Our government has already made the value judgment that supporting housing prices is worthy of spending trillions of taxpayer dollars.
I am in the camp that in the long run this is futile, but in the short run the data speaks for itself.
Oh and 47% of Americans pay no income tax, this is an oft reported media fact.
What the media won’t report is what percentage of Amercians pay negative tax (ie: receive a subsidy), nor break this down by demographics. It is likely very close to the 47% is my guess.
$100k job, 500k house 100k deposit you saved up over 5 years. $3000/month on PITI. 10 years later you have lived in your nice house, have 77k of positive equity assuming zero app/depreciation and have struggle by on $2,750 of income/month. The real estate problem is not just about people using too much of their salary on their house. I’m more worried about the people who spent more on their car payment and eating in restaurants than the place they live. Its almost ironic given how you visualized my home. Let be clear about the difference between irresponsible behavior and people who choose their priorities differently.
Bob,
I agree with you in that it is a futile effort to prop up the housing market in the long run. What is the purpose of this quant easing other than being a painkiller and symtom reducer in hopes that the market recovers by itself.
In my real estate economics class that was taught by a senile, yet one of the founding fathers of the field, one thing I learned was that all the government subsidies to get Americans to own their own homes failed in the long run as only those with enough capital to reap the benefits participated.
Are these subsidies, hoping to get more speculators back into the market? I really think that those with cash on the sidelines are scared to put it into play.
You have to answer a ton of what if questions. What if the recession restarts into a double dip. What if my company decides to implement more layoffs to cut costs? What if the M&A activity cause my company to be party in such corporate dealings? One can spend whole life thinking about this.
However, I do not think that there is enough empirical evidence around me to convince me that the housing market will recover. Did the banks release all their housing stock inventory yet? I bet they won’t flood the market but trickle it to recoop as much as they can.
I’d rather wait and see than jumping in without a clear way to hedge the loss.
The IRS also routinely ignores tax fraud to increase the payments/subsidies. They file as head of household regardless of marital status or position, they claim unemployed (w-2) unemployed relatives and friends as dependents, they claim nieces and nephews for the child tax credit, they scam the state for child care credits and direct payments…..this stuff is routinely ignored. The only time you get caught is if two ppl claim the same child. My household will pay well over 20 or 25k in federal taxes this year. A DINK household with no kids means I support others with kids and mortgages its basically using the tax code to redistribute wealth.
Neo,
What says living in a nice house gives more utility than eating out in fancy restaurants? I agree with your terms of value to each activity, but if those high spenders eat and spend less, then the fundamental basis of our consumer driven economy will fail. Also, if everyone took your concept of value and applied it in their lives, then the housing prices should continue to rise as it is the most desired utility to purchase. That sounds like a bubble to me. Let the market decide is the only halfass answer I have.
The problem with our economy is that it is not balanced but too heavily driven by consumption. We need to balance it out during this recession and create a modified economic model.
A few years ago I saw the taxes and expenses of an individual (not a client) who needed to prove his income.
Well, of course, even though he was married, he and his wife both filed as head of household to pay lower tax rates. They had two children as a result of their union but between the two of them they claimed six people as dependents, including nieces, nephews and other random family members, taking full advantage of the child tax credits and exemptions/dependents. Between the two of them, their combined household income was roughly what I earned. Yet the tax implications couldn’t be more different.
They paid zero federal taxes. Zero. IIRC between them, they received subsidies, EIC, child tax credits, mortgage deductions, child care credits, etc, for refunds of about $6,500 each (granted some of this was a refund of withholdings but I suspect they went, as some like to say, ‘tax exempt’ meaning they jacked up their exemptions and had little withholdings); That year I had paid $13,000 in federal taxes. The federal government decided that it was more important give my $13,000 in federal taxes directly to this family to help pay for, among other things, their $550 a month Ford Explorer and their $450 a month Dodge Charger and a mortgage well beyond their means. I believe it’s the IRS’s policy to overlook these things because it’s a federal handout and nobody wants to mess with that.
That’s just flat out redistribution of wealth through the tax code. I went to school, worked hard, took out plenty of loans, managed NOT to have children I could not afford, and yet my $13,000 in federal taxes was flat out redistributed to members of the 47% of the population that pay no federal income tax whatsoever, who without fail with vote for the political party that promises to give them a bigger cut of my paycheck. It was really an eye opener.
I’ve also seen tax cheats on the other of the income spectrum, don’t even get me started on that.
“What says living in a nice house gives more utility than eating out in fancy restaurants?”
I once got into an exchange with an (presumably progressive) economics professor who was espousing the benefits of a progressive taxation system. I asked questions such as “what if the marginal hit of blow to the wall streeter is more valuable than to the food a working class family was working to put on the table?”.
Most of the class probably thought I was insane but I was trying to corner him into admitting that he was assigning value judgments to his belief that progressive taxation was justified and preferred.
He was the sort that would teach us utility but then turn around and try to present many things as objective and fair (progressive tax code) but that actually had value judgments embedded within them and were truly subjective.
Ultimately I think our tax code would be much better without value judgments for the exact reason HD posts above. It is a high disincentive to work or be productive for people that are unduly penalized via lifestyle choices and distorts the labor market for certain segments.
Oh and it distorts the mortgage market as well: the reason the bubble happened is because different people pay different after tax costs for the ownership status vs. renting. And the ensuing tax breaks and bubble wrecked the economy haha!
But most Americans are too dumb to see this and I do believe this country is headed for a fiscal crisis in the near future as a result.
HD my only advice is learn to be a cheat. Don’t try to be a decent man in an indecent time. Be like my friends and I and get over every one you can without putting yourself at undue risk.
I happen to know the probabilities of the tax code, etc and can assure you government doesn’t get any more blood out of me than absolutely possible. Bob is gonna be just fine and you can go on without inviting me to your high society wine parties because I don’t play by the same rules as law conscious whitbreads. 😀
“The IRS also routinely ignores tax fraud..”
Its not that they ignore it. Its just that the tax code is so insanely complicated it often costs more to pursue and attempt to collect than it does to just let it slide in most cases.
The dumb idealistic whitbreads who do everything by the book and assume everyone else does too don’t understand probability, compliance costs nor plausible deniability. Our tax code is so complicated and convoluted it is incredibly hard to police.
-Your odds of getting audited are very low (unless tipped off with specific information OR you do something egregiously stupid)–don’t ever talk to others about specifics with your taxes and understand what egregious stupidity is.
-Compliance costs mean that it is very difficult to check every return.
-Plausible deniability means that you can claim ignorance or a mistake if caught. Yes you will have to pay interest and penalties but idiots don’t understand this probability is low. Factored into a probability chart the NPV is almost always positive.
One of the few times I wanted to high-five Stevo when he posted an equation on here showing that his business arrives at a net loss or zero to not pay taxes and it was clear he backed into that bottom line number. He gets it. Dumbarse middle class folk with no business savvy don’t, they just vote democrat.
Also your bank and brokerage communicate records to the IRS so that is a very easy way for them to spot check you in those areas and select for audit. Don’t ever fudge on bank interest or brokerage gains. I’ve had friends that have been audited for failing to report $10 worth of bank interest. Don’t make their job easy and don’t fib on these things.
Bob, you can’t cheat an honest man; and that’s how I tend to look at myself. There are loopholes and legal maneuvers, that’s where I excel. Cheating and lying goes to my reputation, and just like an honest mechanic will always have cars to repair, I too will hopefully be able to earn a living by keeping a reputation of upstanding integrity and honesty.
Well HD I hope you don’t wind up like Harvey Dent.
The difference between you and me is you have the means and the will to support the dregs who can, will and are voting themselves your money.
I’m not going to support the dregs anymore than absolutely necessary to secure my freedom and it won’t be me walking around with a metaphorical economic crosshairs on my back. That is going to be you.
On a sidenote you might be appalled to learn that my (disputed) debt to the ITA in the amount of 1.3k was referred to a law firm after being referred to a collections firm some seven months ago. Much as I did then I sent a simple note that the debt is still in dispute. Being familiar with the FDCPA I know thats all it takes. Now any report to the three bureaus must contain an asterisk denoting the debt is disputed.
Good luck to the govvy and dregs from getting blood from a stone. Those idiots don’t even have the right license number on the suspension notice 😀 This state is so stupid with its stupid constituents who vote to overtax themselves and support the dregs its quite hilarious.
This country is seeing a huge problem that would have been unthinkable a generation ago: representation with no taxation. It’s a dangerous situation if almost half of all Americans pay no income tax. Guess what kind of politicians they’re going to vote for?
There’s a fatal flaw with the design of this place that I’m sure is hurting its sale. The bedrooms are split on two different levels. There is no family with or going to have 2 children that would want such a place. That cuts out a huge market segment. When I see developers do stuff like this…
Neo wrote: “I for one have spent 50% of my disposable income on either rent or PITI for the past 10 years and have enjoyed living in great homes in nice areas. I would not take that back so i could play schadenfreude on CC.”
“$100k job, 500k house 100k deposit you saved up over 5 years. $3000/month on PITI. 10 years later you have lived in your nice house, have 77k of positive equity assuming zero app/depreciation and have struggle by on $2,750 of income/month.”
Pay 50% in rent and save $100,000 in five years? That leaves about a grand a month for everything else. And the $77k of “positive equity” doesn’t take into accont upkeep, tax and insurance increases.
Also, HD makes a good point: how will you furnish that “great home?”
Is it just eCONomic theory?
“They already have stopped sliding even while the unemployment rate has been rising…
Just look at a Case Shiller graph”
Bob, if CS was only representative of the ‘hoods featured on CC, then CS would still be declining.
Neo,
“I’m more worried about the people who spent more on their car payment and eating in restaurants than the place they live.”
hahaha thats totally my family 🙂 and i see nothing wrong with that at all.
hey my mortgage is most likely cheaper than peoples rent here. my car payment is close to half my mortgage cause i would rather not drop a huge down payment on a car when i can spread the $$$ over three years and at 1.5% interest which makes it easier to enjoy life, buy stupid stuff and eat out at good places and not put it on plastic and pay 15-21% interests on that.
so my friend neo dont be worried about me and my kind, be worried about the people that spend 50% or more of income on a roof over there head. (see where the world is now because of them) Cause when the shyt hits the fan……….
…I would rather my car get repo’d and still have a roof over my head and enough cash in the bank to pay the utilities and groceries for 2 years 🙂
Gary drops a good point about bedrooms on different levels unless a person has teenagers it wont work well with little ones.
thought about the differnt level bedroom thing. I kind of like the idea, and think the privacy would be sweet! i would rather the master be on the 3rd fl and the two other on the top, dont want to traumatize the kids with the marital relations noise :)(
“Why live in the west loop with pretty high taxes and pay private school? All the sellers in this development have kids and are looking for that buyer that is on kid one that has not looked into the school issues.”
As another poster mentioned, this is within Skinner, isn’t Skinner one of the better schools in CPS? I confirmed this after checking http://cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx?unit=5940. It shows it matches if not beat the Lincoln Elementary (supposedly the best one of the three in LP?)