Spend the Summer on Your Front Porch: 4128 N. Oakley in North Center
This 4-bedroom single family home at 4128 N. Oakley in North Center recently came on the market.
Built in 1998 on a standard Chicago lot of 25×125, you can sip lemonade from your porch swing all summer long.
3 of the 4 bedrooms are on the second level with the fourth bedroom in the lower level.
The house has 2 family rooms- one off the kitchen and one in the lower level.
It also has a 2 car garage, a back deck and air conditioning.
The kitchen has not been upgraded with the usual features. It has white appliances and doesn’t have granite counter tops.
Will the lack of stainless steel appliances in the kitchen at this price point hurt this home’s resale value?
Joanne Wise at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures and a virtual tour here.
4128 N. Oakley: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2.5 car garage, no square footage listed
- Sold in February 1998 for $425,000
- Sold in September 2002 for $650,000
- Currently listed for $870,000
- Taxes of $12,583
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 18×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 16×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 12×9 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 13×11 (lower level)
- Family room: 17×29 (lower level)
They have two fireplaces and neither of them has a tv above it!
Four quick posts — I think Sabrina may be heading for the beach 😀
The old house was acquired from Freddie as REO in ’97 (tax-free deed, so no value in ccrd) with a loan for $55,600.
for the uninitiated, what is the appliance next to the washer and dryer?
I really like the center staircase format – I feel that it really opens up the space on all the levels.
However, with these finishes, in Coonley, this is not realistic at $870k. To me, it’s much closer to 2426 W. Cullom, even down to the center staircase. That’s Waters instead of Coonley, and across Western, but I still don’t see this property above $730k in the current market.
Newer construction is a huge selling point IMO. I like the white kitchen and it wouldn’t be hard to swap out appliances so I don’t think that will be a problem (unless someone hates the light cabinets). The open floorplan is very nice, and three of the bed rooms are nice sized. It seems to be aggressively priced as its way over the 2002 price but we’ll see.
“It seems to be aggressively priced as its way over the 2002 price”
Don’t know anyone in the market for even a $650k house that considered Coonley acceptable in ’02, so that’s a significant difference.
The “$2 million” for a school in Rahm’s district that has come up in Blago’s trial was, I am fairly certain, money spent on Coonley.
“That’s Waters instead of Coonley, and across Western, but I still don’t see this property above $730k in the current market.”
Did the Cullom house have spendier finishes?
Given the number of people *just on CC* who won’t consider going west of western in north center/lincoln square, that difference may be worth 10%. I’m pretty well uncertain about the relative preference b/t Waters and Coonley, but it seems that Coonley gets better/more press, so that might have some value, too. The ask has a whiff of sense to it, even if the Cullom house were identical, but only if it’s a open to negotiation ask.
The 2002 purchase had a whopping 10% down.
At this price point any buyer will likely require 20% down, a more than $150,000 HH income and excellent credit.
It’s hilarious that buyers today think that they can upsell their home into a demographic by pricing it significantly higher than their purchase price.
It’s like that bi-furcated market everyone talks about.. Anyone can price their home like it’s part of the upper tier buy only a handful of buyers actually get to decide what homes belong in the upper half of the bi-furcation.
Finishings are pretty subpar. Nice front porch, but overall seems very ‘suburban tract home’ to me. I would think maybe $780 or so.
Oh, and yes, the owner has substantial equity, so it’s not an ask based on what’s needed to get out of an ATM situation.
Overpriced with low end finishes
“for the uninitiated, what is the appliance next to the washer and dryer?”
I thought water softener, but I wondered the same thing.
$725k.
I like this house… at 500k
location is not public transit happy, finishes are functional, nothing special… no reason for this house to appreciate ~8% a year since it was built since it appears very little work has been done to improve the place.
“no reason for this house to appreciate ~8% a year since it was built”
Teardown when built sold for ~$70k. Teardown-quality houses nearby have sold for $350-420k in the past 12 months. So, $775 + X% of any improvements – needed repair/replacement = same nominal price for the structure as when built.
so yeah… 500k
“Did the Cullom house have spendier finishes?”
Not by a huge amount, but I would say yes, by a somewhat significant amount.
“Given the number of people *just on CC* who won’t consider going west of western in north center/lincoln square, that difference may be worth 10%.”
I think that, even among those that set arbitrary borders, there’s not that much of a very localized premium like that in that area. It’s nowhere near 10%. I think that proximity to the Brown Link might be a bigger factor to most SFH buyers in that area.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4341-N-Bell-Ave-60618/home/13391404
4341 n bell, listed $875, closed $831. Given that they listed 2 days before this one closed, they probably saw it as pending at $875 and figured it was their comp.
@anon(tfo) – if that $2M wasn’t coonley, it could have been nettlehorst. I know they credit rahm’s help as well
“I think that, even among those that set arbitrary borders, there’s not that much of a very localized premium like that in that area. It’s nowhere near 10%. I think that proximity to the Brown Link might be a bigger factor to most SFH buyers in that area.”
Well, I know more than a couple of people who have looked for and/or bought a house in this area in the past decade. The *vast* majority of them would not even consider buying across Western–as in wouldn’t even look at a listing.
A 10% difference in price? All you have to do is check the sales price of teardown-quality places not on the main streets–they’ve pretty consistently (for 5+ years, and yes, in the past 12 months) $75k (to $300k) more east of Western than west, if otherwise comparable in lot size and location. 10% is easy to see; 15% possible and 20% in certain circumstances, just because of land price.
“if that $2M wasn’t coonley, it could have been nettlehorst. I know they credit rahm’s help as well”
Did Nettlehorst really get that much $$ sometime in the 06-06 period? Did not know that.
“4341 n bell”
Lotsa weird spaces there, but I’d take it any time of this vanilla place, even with eyes wide open about potential issues. 42′ lot!!
“Well, I know more than a couple of people who have looked for and/or bought a house in this area in the past decade. The *vast* majority of them would not even consider buying across Western–as in wouldn’t even look at a listing.”
Well, so do I, and I think that we run in different circles. I have not seen any evidence of a like-to-like comparison demonstrating that being east of Western is worth 10% to buyers of SFHs around there. I have looked and/or bought around here, as have many people I know, and, ignoring the qualities of the property itself, the quality of the exact street, the school district and proximity to the el are all much bigger factors than whether it’s west of Western or not.
Anyway, if you’re right, this property should sell for over $800k. If that happens, then I’ll have to agree that being just easy of Western is worth a good bit more than being just west of Western around there.
Coonley #97 in Chicago (not state). Anon, you must live in the district.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/October-2010/Best-Elementary-Schools-City-of-Chicago/
Sure you can teach the ISAT, which has been done recently, but does that make it a good school?
@formerroscoevillager
i don’t think that is an appliance, just a fancy storage thing
like this
http://www.amazon.com/Whirlpool-WVP8600SW-Storage-Tower-White/dp/B000UW0AZ8/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1306863372&sr=1-2-fkmr2
I would consider both Coonley and Waters to be in the “not an option” category, which I expect might be true for a lot of SFH buyers in that area.
“the quality of the exact street, the school district and proximity to the el ”
Well, South of Montrose and N of IPR, there are two of those factors that may change being west or east of Western (agnostic about the exact street diff, if any), and south of IPR, I think that all of the exact streets east of Western are nicer than any west of Western + el proximity, tho all the same school.
Basically, all three of your “what’s important” points, to me and those I know, *in general* run pretty strongly in favor of east of Western. Any given pair of houses, at any given pricing, sure, might favor west of Western, and even strongly so. I just know many who wouldn’t even *consider* west of Western, even an identical house, on a comparably nice street, in the same attendance area, for 20%+ less.
“Coonley #97 in Chicago (not state). Anon, you must live in the district.”
You know where I live. I know many people who can afford alternatives who are sending their kids to Coonley in the neighborhood program.
And what grades are those ISAT scores based on? 3-7? What’s the oldest class that’s full of actual neighborhood kids? 4? Call me back when they’ve filled the school 4 years from now.
“Basically, all three of your “what’s important” points, to me and those I know, *in general* run pretty strongly in favor of east of Western. Any given pair of houses, at any given pricing, sure, might favor west of Western, and even strongly so. I just know many who wouldn’t even *consider* west of Western, even an identical house, on a comparably nice street, in the same attendance area, for 20%+ less.”
Busy today, so this will be my last post on the subject for a while, but I’ll try to catch up later. If it’s those factors that are making the difference, then it’s not the fact that the property is east of Western, it’s the fact that those factors are better in that property. In that example, the fact that those factors are better for that house might be correlated with it being east of Western, but my point is I don’t think that you can demonstrate that, correcting for factors that clearly affect desirability, the same house just east of Western, as opposed to just west of Western, is worth more. And that’s exactly what the case is with this property and the example I showed – just east of vs. just west of Western.
That is fine that you know people who assign a more than 20% (up from 10%!) premium to being east of Western, but I don’t see that the market at all reflects that. It reflects a small premium that is not well-reflected by the value of this house, because it is very close to Western. I base my views not only on how the people I know feel about it, but also on pretty extensive review of sale prices of similar properties in that area over the last several years. I might be convinced that there is some premium, but nowhere near 10% as a hard drop-off. It’s more that it’s generally better to be east in general, not just east of Western.
Anon (ufo),
you could have at least upgraded to SS in the kitchen, used some EZgrow for the back yard, and replaced the second bathroom hollywood lights before you listed your place at 870k.
that is offensive to not only me but the rest of CC’ers.
J/K 🙂
“That is fine that you know people who assign a more than 20% (up from 10%!) premium to being east of Western”
Apples and oranges. No change in the 10%; which is about the delta in the value of the lot passed on to a ~$750k house, based on what’s been selling as teardowns/total guts. Delta is larger south of IPR, but then the streets west of Western b/t IPR and Addison aren’t as comparable to those east as they are when you’re north of IPR.
And, I never got into *why* people won’t look west of Western–which is largely variations on your desirability factors–just that they won’t. And, all else equal (yeah, yeah), a smaller pool of potential buyers is likely to result in lower sale prices, no?
“you could have at least upgraded to SS in the kitchen, used some EZgrow for the back yard, and replaced the second bathroom hollywood lights before you listed your place at 870k.”
Did I once even imply that it would sell for ask? Here’s what I said:
“that difference [being e of Western] may be worth 10%”
and
“The ask has a whiff of sense to it, even if the Cullom house were identical, but only if it’s a open to negotiation ask.”
The latter is pretty weak as an endorsement of the *ask* which, as I think we all know, is still different from the sale price.
“I know many people who can afford alternatives who are sending their kids to Coonley in the neighborhood program.”
If you can afford a SFH home in North Center, you can afford parochial at least, so that is not saying a lot.
Some people are big believers in public regardless of the school. It’s like me saying I know parents who send their kids to NSCD even when 38 / NT is a demonstrably better education. In fact, and unlike a lot of large cities on the coasts, the private schools in Chicago really do not rise to the same level that you see on the coasts.
Public school is a big midwestern culture thing, certainly a big Chicago suburbs thing. I’d go so far as to say many private schools have an undeserved reputation as landing places for misfits, culturally awkward kids, or those that otherwise don’t fit in well. I think that is silly, but I have noticed the perception among many.
My sister gets asked a lot “so you grew up here and so did you go to NT?” And when she says, actually, no, I went to St. Pauls on the east coast, they either think it is a reform school or a military academy or maybe she went through rehab. I think that is f’ing hilarious particularly because I see her school still listed on the resume of 40 year old iby-league educated adults interviewng for jobs.
JJJ – I won’t live west of western in this location as I’d want a future child to be able to walk to elementary school. I’d require that trip not to require a twice daily Western crossing. I would consider west of western in Lincoln Square to attend Waters.
JMM, JJJ – Both Coonley & Waters are drawing people to the neighborhood, as well as McPhereson. None show up on current lists due to the turn around, just like every single other north side elem that people here tell you are turning around and you diss. Please note I don’t have a horse in the race yet, and am passing on anecdotal opinions that I also received for free. They seem to be corroborated by current parents on various websites and forums.
Also at no point would you get an argument out of me on the quality of neighborhood, automatic admit public high schools in the CPS tho I doubt you would from anyone.
At this price point wouldnt potential buyers have the ability to buy a $1MM home just as easily as an $870K home? I doubt many buyers at this level are really “stretching” when it comes to their income qualification and down payment. That being said, I think buyers at this price point would be more likely to take their $1MM and grab a place in a better neighborhood.
jmm vs tfo re coonley
dejavu all over again
has coonly been showing improved results? i remember hearing it was turning 3yrs ago (not from tfo, he was not convinced in 08 iirc)
“Both Coonley & Waters are drawing people to the neighborhood, as well as McPhereson.”
I know, every north side elementary school is the next Bell. Just like west of western was the next lincoln park.
I lived about a block south of this address on Oakley. The neighborhood is ok, the Square is within walking distance, but local schools? Not so hot. Also, oddly enough, this particular location has a real problem (or did) with car alarms going off randomly 24-7. It used to drive me crazy!
We moved for a few reasons: major rainwater/sewer issues in front of our place, schools, large apartment complex nearby that attracted horn-honkers all day/all night, and gang graffiti tags. Each was a small thing, really, but in the end it started to bring me down. I am pretty noise sensitive, more so than the average person.
I do miss the Square, though. And devastated Gene’s shop opened AFTER we moved. It’s a fun location if schools / highway commute don’t matter much.
Coonley has improved test score wise. But I disagree that because it might be close in terms of test scores of an average suburban school, people should be wetting themselves to buy $800k frame houses north of IPR.
There always seems to be a fad CPS school. I don’t have a dog in this hunt either, but the cyncical side of me says CPS will be on very tough times when i) funding dries up, as it is already doing and ii) housing stabilizes so young families can hurry up and move to Naperville already.
At or below 2002 price. Nothing special here in an inferior location. You can buy this same if you look hard, South of Irving and east of Ashland.
Western has long been a dividing line (imagine that) on the North Side, but isn’t Ravenswood Manor and to a lesser extent, Ravenswood Gardens, an exception?
“I am pretty noise sensitive, more so than the average person. ”
http://www.greengluecompany.com/
We just reno’d a frame 2 flat with this stuff. Very impressive results. Very efficient costs. Plus you can use it between sheathing for excellent exterior soundproofing. No reason to sell your house because of DB neighbors.
“I think buyers at this price point would be more likely to take their $1MM and grab a place in a better neighborhood”
1. Ain’t gonna sell for $870.
2. Difference b/t (say) $795k for this place and your (possibly phantom) $1mm house someplace else is serious; lot more people make $250k than make $350k.
3. What’s the agree-by-all better neighborhood *for a SFH* aside from LP-not-too-close-to-Clybourn and a portion of Lakeview (Alcott/Nettlehorst, or so)? I don’t actually care for most of the blocks in Blaine, tho some are *exceptionally* nice.
“isn’t Ravenswood Manor and to a lesser extent, Ravenswood Gardens, an exception?”
I think so, but also think of the river/channel as a second dividing line. Lotsa people choosing to live w of Western in Logan, too.
“*you* could have at least upgraded to SS in the kitchen, used some EZgrow for the back yard, and replaced the second bathroom hollywood lights before you listed *your* place at 870k.”
Did I once even imply that it would sell for ask? Here’s what I said:”
Anon,
refer to the ** parts of the quoted text. which all was followed by a “J/K”. but if this is actually *your* place then, my bad for the misplaced sarcasm.
anon: I believe the answer to your neighborhood question has to be: suburbs.
it was coonley that received the Rahm money. I believe he is actually in Ravenswood School district. Or, will be when he moves back into his house.
I find it interesting that people on CC who don’t have any skin in the game so to speak constantly comment on school quality or lack thereof.
It is just anti my taste, I don’t like the exterior, kitchen and bath are depressing, the light fixtures, the fans and everything are just awful Home Depot. I would not buy this even if it was a good price. Looks cheap cheap cheap!
“I believe the answer to your neighborhood question has to be: suburbs.”
But then you should be able to buy this same house, re-jiggered for a 1/2 lot into something with more above-grade space, for $450k, rather than $1mm. I’m just not sure where, besides east of [pick your western boundary in LP and LV] and south of Addision qualifies as *clearly* nicer for a SFH. And then I wonder where all the new-ish, large-ish, move-in ready, but not deluxe, SFHs for under $1.1mm are. They don’t show up on cc often.
I’m also always puzzled by the “you can afford X, so why not spend 1.25X” thought process. Sure, they’re both large numbers and if you qualify to spend one, you likely could qualify to spend the larger, but not everyone has an interest in that.
“my bad for the misplaced sarcasm”
I just used you for a jumping off point about the implication that I was defending the ask.
And I agree with your points about prepping for sale.
“I find it interesting that people on CC who don’t have any skin in the game so to speak constantly comment on school quality or lack thereof.”
But trudi, JMM might be the largest SFH landlord on the northside; he’s got an interest.
I don’t think we’ve (yet) heard from the childless gallery this time.
Holy smokes. When I saw the pictures, I thought a super agressive ask price would be around 600, seeing it listed for 870 gave me a shock. The finishes, the whole house even, are really low-end. I can’t imagine anyone with 870 to spend being remotely satisfied with this place.
Where are Rahm’s kids going to school? Didn’t they go to Anshe Emet when he was a congressman?
anon: I’m with you, and should have not been snarky in response. I actually agree with HD’s logic – why spend as much as one can technically afford? But you are simply laying out what we all know: there simply isn’t a closer in neighborhood that one can get a SFH for at a lower price, controlling for passable CPS elems. The demand is still there for this subset of potential buyer and it is bewildering.
I do feel ‘priced out’ or forced to stretch if I want to stay, which I do.
“Where are Rahm’s kids going to school? Didn’t they go to Anshe Emet when he was a congressman?”
1. Dunno about the oldest, who is headed to HS in the fall. I’ll *guarantee* it won’t be Lake View.
2. Yes, Anshe. Expect the two younger will again.
I thought that all his kids were heading to Latin this fall. Maybe it’s just the high schooler.
“should have not been snarky in response”
Don’t stop (or even slow down) on my account.
“I do feel ‘priced out’ or forced to stretch if I want to stay, which I do.”
It’s definitely tough, as so many of the houses that would have been in the middle price-wise got torn down over the past decade, and mostly replaced by 3-unit condos. And the remaining ones price in the teardown cost + replacement construction (note: this one is above that, at ask, imo). Extra bad in the attendance areas of the “good” schools, but bad anyplace where the school even edges into marginal.
“I just used you for a jumping off point about the implication that I was defending the ask.
And I agree with your points about prepping for sale”
oh ok, missed premise on my side.
but will agree, the fact that someone could pay 870k doesnt mean the can also pay 1.25mil elsewhere. thats a large difference chunk of change TO ANYONE!
i will say that 870k CAN take you very far throughout this city and you need “something” special to trick, oops i mean find a buyer for this place at this price.
I’m surprised nobody on here has started an off-topic discussion of yesterday’s closure of North Ave Beach for so-called “heat reasons”…
“I thought that all his kids were heading to Latin this fall”
Based on … ? On unsupported rumor?
I would be seriously shocked if the two younger kids don’t go back to Anshe.
This is completely true. However, the price of many of these homes are still beyond what even many of the highest income earners can afford to pay.
In 50 years, the multitude of three flats with 2 bedroom and 2 bathrooms, complete with outdated and chipped granite, original SS fridge, original fixtures and higher density living arrangements, and leaking cinderblock causing years of hidden damage would make the perfect low income tenement housing.
“there simply isn’t a closer in neighborhood that one can get a SFH for at a lower price, controlling for passable CPS elems. The demand is still there for this subset of potential buyer and it is bewildering.
I do feel ‘priced out’ or forced to stretch if I want to stay, which I do.”
“oh ok, missed premise on my side.”
Yeah, wasn’t clear.
I have to say… I learned a lot from you two going off about comparable pricing of public schools vs. private. Not having kids I didn’t reference this to specific intrinsic dollars and cents, always just attributed it to an extrinsic ‘premium neighborhood’ value. In Chicago it’s a pretty damn huge deal in $’s which side of the street you are on.
“I’m surprised nobody on here has started an off-topic discussion of yesterday’s closure of North Ave Beach for so-called “heat reasons””
Look in one of the other 7 of todays threads it might be there. i cant keep up anymore.
“I thought that all his kids were heading to Latin this fall”
i wanst under that impression more rumor when he was running and lakeview wont be a option. but hey you never know, and in the end who cares.
“Look in one of the other 7 of todays threads it might be there. i cant keep up anymore.”
Haven’t noticed chicagobull around lately; that was his hobbyhorse.
I know many of you are bored to tears with school talk, but others seem at least somewhat interested, so — Waters and Coonley have both had huge turnarounds in the last few years, and people are definitely buying in to both districts to send their kids there. The test scores for last year’s 3rd graders at both schools were already very strong, and I’m not even sure they include the new crop of gentrifiers’ kids, nor the new Coonley gifted program. Last year, 55% of all 3rd graders at Waters exceeded standards (not just met standards) and at Coonley, 58%. This is nearly as high as other schools with programs that have been established much longer, like LaSalle I, which had 63% exceed standards, and Bell, with 69%. So 5% more 3rd graders at LaSalle (3 kids) exceeded standards than at Coonley. Pretty comparable results.
North Center prices defy gravity. I keep waiting for these frame houses to come down and they don’t. I guarantee this sells for $810-840k
I just look at the numbers, empirically, and CPS neighborhood schools really don’t stack up save a very few number of schools and even they are really pari passu with the burbs.
Everything else about who the principal is, etc. is all BS opinion. For every one parent who thinks the school is great you find another who thinks the administration or teachers as a’holes, etc. It’s all subjective.
As I commented, the obsession with average (for the socioeconomic demographic) CPS schools is amusing.
“I just look at the numbers, empirically, and CPS neighborhood schools really don’t stack up save a very few number of schools and even they are really pari passu with the burbs.”
So are you including Waters and Coonley as stacking up to the burbs, or are they not included, in your opinion? Because my look at data shows they are comparable to results from the schools in Naperville, Glenview and Buffalo Grove districts.
JMM – fair, and I concede that to a person who is content with the decision to live in the suburbs the amount of energy city parents put into this area of life must seem out of balance. I know my friends in the various burbs all question why I haven’t come to the decision to move as well.
The system is set up to make cribchatters move.
As we all know well, you can’t fight city hall.
“Wicker on May 31st, 2011 at 2:08 pm
JMM – fair, and I concede that to a person who is content with the decision to live in the suburbs the amount of energy city parents put into this area of life must seem out of balance. I know my friends in the various burbs all question why I haven’t come to the decision to move as well.”
We recently bought a place in the Coonley area, and probably would’ve passed on this one. Looks way to generic and cheap. And at $870k, the place is lacking too much what we wanted. And yes, we didn’t want to live West of Western. We bought a beater and fixed it up.
“comparable to results from the schools in Naperville, Glenview and Buffalo Grove districts”
But Michelle, why would anyone live in those ‘burbs, when for $100k less than this house, one can buy this:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Kenilworth/745-Maclean-Ave-60043/home/13783791
and send the kids to Sears before sending them off to finishing school somewhere else?
North Center SFH Median List Price: 985k (as of 4/11)
Buffalo Grove SFH Median List Price: 334k (34% of cost)
Glenview SFH Median List Price: 540k (55% of cost)
Naperville SFH Median List Price: 348k 35% of cost)
By the way, I disagree that either of the schools you mention compare to Willowbrook (Glenview), Avoca (Glenview), while most of the others in Glenview are all at or better than Blaine/Burley, which set the standard for good north side elementaries. Same story for Naperville which has a few stand outs and most of the others meet or exeed the Blaine/Burley standard.
If that were not enough, the house price you pay is 3x that of two of the suburbs (one of which has a world class park district), while Glenview is heavily influenced by proximity and newer construction in the Glenn.
You should be comparing to districts 36, 37, 38, and 39. In Winnetka, the median is $1M, right about in-line with North Center. That is unreal if you ask me. Absolutely unreal.
“And yes, we didn’t want to live West of Western.”
Was it b/c of distance to el, relative charm of the street, or just b/c you didn’t want to be w of Western?
Pretty sure I’ve said I don’t want to buy west of Western before. It’s an exaggeration, but wouldn’t want to in Bell or Bucktown. Would consider it in Logan proper (I don’t know there’s really a Logan east of Western) or Ravenswood Manor (or the section across the river); they have other drawbacks but not ones strictly a function of being west of Western. Basically, I don’t want to be on the other side of Western from the main part of the neighborhood (also, wofW in Bell is uninteresting, and wofW in btown is maybe a little less safe seeming).
As for this house, awfully generic, but not clearly grossly overpriced.
“to a person who is content with the decision to live in the suburbs the amount of energy city parents put into this area of life must seem out of balance”
Actually, the part I find out of balance is how people can be silly enough to pay North Shore prices for a postage stamp with the attendant city grit — crime, declining city services, etc.
No issue with the concept at the right price. 20 years ago people did it, but paid a fraction of what they do today.
Anon Maclean is a very nice street along with Kent, Roger and Cummings. I know at least one family where the primary wage earner makes over $1M yet has lived there his whole married life with kids through NT.
This house is not exactly representative of most, though it would be nice to see someone fix it up.
“Was it b/c of distance to el, relative charm of the street, or just b/c you didn’t want to be w of Western?”
As opposed to the Bucktown/Wicker Park area, where West of Western gets pretty sketchy, that is not the case at North Center. The neighborhoods are fine, but we walk a ton and figured we’d be heading East a lot. Therefore, the thought of crossing Western to get anywhere wasn’t appealing – especially with kids. Plus, it put us a little further from “stuff”. Location was very key to us, and we liked Coonley over Waters.
“This house is not exactly representative of most, though it would be nice to see someone fix it up.”
Just picked the cheapest current listing in K’worth from RF. Had the side benefit of being a 4/3. If my only two options, period, were to buy one of that house and this at ask, you’d have me as a neighbor.
The one thing that sucks about the city, and has been getting on my nerves lately, are the hoodlums everywhere. You can be at a park or at the beach or river north and there will inevitably been a group of hoodlums aged 12-18 standing on some street corner just looking like trouble: playing chicken with cars in the street, messing with pedestrians, staring people down, flash mobbing, hootin’ and hollarin’, etc. I can’t hell you how many times I’ve been on a bike in traffic and some 16 year old is yelling at me or throwing shit at me from some car simply because I’m on a bike. Yesterday I was at a city park in a nice area of course there were three hoodlums riding bikes around, messing with people, trying to steal people’s belongings, and cause trouble. I understand kids are kids, and I can be old (get off my lawn!) but there are some serious hoodlums in the city that just roam the streets with little or no supervision causing trouble and mess with the qualify of life of residents. It’s just part of the culture in the city, if you’re young you go around cause hell, the police don’t care very much or wont’ do aything about it, the residents are scared of you and your parents are too busy fighting with the baby daddy to properly supervise their own children.
“The one thing that sucks about the city, and has been getting on my nerves lately, are the hoodlums everywhere.”
Only getting worse my friend.
And while we all know the demographic you are referring to, let’s be fair, idiot frat meatheads fresh out of Western Michigan U. pissing on your lawn isn’t exactly fun either.
Of course, Annony hasn’t run into these jokers yet. If he/she had, it might change the impression of “being near the lake”…
AT the WMU guy pissing on your lawn doesn’t plan on stealing your lawn gnome and doesn’t plan on spray painting your garage. And he’s only drunk on weekends not after school. ANd I”m not worried about being harassed by the WMU guy.
The hoodlums I was speaking of yesterday were of at least two or three of the various demographics all hanging out together. It’s not about demographics, it’s about the anti-social city culture that exists.
yesterday was riff raff central at the beach by lake pt tower. too many people in general out, though. the start of the nice weather ruins the lakefront with crowds. oh well.
i like that tudor house in k-worth. looks medieval
“it’s about the anti-social city culture that exists.”
Inseparable from the city itself. You prove the point right there.
school’s out
1st real hot day of the year
of course there are “hoodlums” everywhere… Lmao! maybe if you weren’t so uptight and scurred all the time they wouldn’t mess with you so much. I’ve never had a problem… try walking down chicago avenue @ state st. sometime for a dose of large groups of hoodlums. Which other than being black, aren’t causing any trouble and just appear to be having fun…
hd-you are so ready for Barrington
I like the Kenilworth’s property’s exterior but man it needs quite a bit of work inside, Groove might be able to do it all on his own, but will cost the rest of us a pretty penny. It is so cute though!
sonies – you are also 6 foot 6 inches tall. but that’s got nothing to do with it, right?
And it’s not about black or white or hispanic, it’s about a culture of anti-social behavior that seem endemic to the city. Some less than others but it’s there. It’s like that dude in the south suburbs who shot the owner of the little dog named ‘gucci’ because he let the dog take care of business in his lawn. Gucci’s owner was trying to provoke him, that wasn’t the first time he’s been told not to walk his dog on his neighbor’s lawn. But he just didn’t care.
HD – Your story reminds me of the guy in Riverside that felt threatened by a free-roaming Shih Tzu and doused it with gasoline.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-man-charged-with-dousing-dog-with-gasoline-20110525,0,3135636.story
That’s not related at all to what I’m talking about. And besides the point, I would never harm an animal. I’m more like the guy who risked his life to save some ducklings.
The problem is that people just accept the hoodlum culture as part of city living, but that’s no excuse for it.
“Chris M on May 31st, 2011 at 3:48 pm
HD – Your story reminds me of the guy in Riverside that felt threatened by a free-roaming Shih Tzu and doused it with gasoline.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-man-charged-with-dousing-dog-with-gasoline-20110525,0,3135636.story“
http://www.wlsam.com/Article.asp?id=2200256&spid=
Why was North Avenue Beach really closed?
Posted 5/31/11 1:22 p.m.
WLS Radio’s Monica DeSantis Reports
CHICAGO (WLS) – Was it a flash mob that forced the closure of North Avenue beach on Memorial Day?
Chicago Police News Affairs released a statement saying they had to close the beach for safety reasons, as people were suffering heat exhaustion and emergency vehicles couldn’t get through to help. But, WLS listeners say there was what they called a “large gangbanger element” at the Oak Street and North Avenue beaches.
READ: Emanuel: Police made right call in closing beach
Listeners report being at the beach, and seeing dozens of gang bangers pushing people off their bikes. Another listener says those causing havoc were not dressed for the beach and looked like “bad elements.”
Webster’s dictionary defines a flash mob as a group of people summoned (as by e-mail or text message) to a designated location at a specified time to perform an indicated action before dispersing. Flash mobs also can be organized via social media sites. But recently in Chicago, flash mobs have gathered along Michigan Avenue to do anything but entertain.
In January, groups of teens assembled along Michigan Avenue and shoplifted at three separate stores. Eleven teens ranging in age from 14 to 17 were arrested.
Chicago Police are denying that a flash mob intent on causing havoc forced the closure of the North Avenue beach on Memorial Day Monday.
“The problem is that people just accept the hoodlum culture as part of city living, but that’s no excuse for it. ”
You mean because both the dog-owner and the murderer had their defenders? Or because the murderer felt he had no other recourse to protect his lawn other than killing someone? I don’t see how that particular story goes to your larger point.
Re. the Kenilworth house:
It’s cute, but you sure don’t get much space for your money in that town. Farther north, in Highland Park, you’d be able to buy a similar house, with schools just as good, for under $500K. Not sure why someone would pay a huge premium to live in Kenilworth or Winnetka.
“Highland Park … with schools just as good”
MANY disagree with this.
“Not sure why someone would pay a huge premium to live in Kenilworth or Winnetka”
Perhaps a certain someone with a name similar to yours.
anon: my point is that the anti-social behavior is everywhere. And the judge let him off.
“my point is that the anti-social behavior is everywhere.”
Dude, I *seriously* would have to look at a map to have any clue of where that event took place beyond south of the Stevenson and east of Naperville. Yeah, the mooks can take the train, but they aren’t taking the train to walk their dog or protect their lawn.
Anon,
I think I know the poster to whom you’re referring who has a name similar to mine!
Also, I wouldn’t be knowledgeable enough to have a debate about Kenilworth vs. Highland Park schools, but we are happy with the elementary school we send our kids to in HP. Not sure how the middle school and high school are.
I’m sure New Trier rates higher on almost every list than Highland Park High School, but that probably reflects the fact that New Trier has a more homogenous student body. There are far more low-income students at Highland Park, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it probably means lower test scores and a lower percentage of graduates who attend the top colleges.
“Not sure why someone would pay a huge premium to live in Kenilworth or Winnetka.”
HP is Lake County, so there is one reason. Anon hit the other one with a very subtle comment (schools are sort of a push, who knows — HP has a good high school alternative to New Trier I have to admit). Unfortunately, some people view where they live like their choice in a country club. They want to be around people like them, have their children play with children like them, with common values, beliefs and traditions. Chicago seems to have much more of this than other big cities, unfortunately.
Pull out the Caddyshack DVD. Substitute Indian Hill for Bushwood. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Dan:
On the schools, not that it isn’t clear in this thread, just reiterating the YMMV position on the schools–lots of people have a list of the “best” and Highland Park schools usually fall into honorable mention territory–which is still plenty good and the right place for lots of families who have concerns apart from the approval of the list-keepers.
Darn…Gucci seems to bring bad luck for the dogs:
http://www.suite101.com/content/dog-named-gucci-made-animal-cruelty-a-felony-a218506
I would have thought Versace would be bad.
good god I have never seen such terrible reporting as that WLS890AM website
all heresy and speculation and fear mongering
then again, I haven’t really seen “journalists” do any real reporting in a very long time so whatever
and please HD, no area of this town is more anti-social than the clique filled suburbs… if you ain’t in the group, you are trash! And soccer/hockey moms all they do is talk trash behind each others backs, they usually aren’t friends unless they went to high school together or something stupid like that.
I don’t find chicago to be that cliquey as I have a lot of different friends from all aspects of life, most were met just randomly or through other friends. But then again, just my personal experiences in dealing with both groups.
“all heresy”
Heh. Thought that was you in the church thread, not WLS.
JMM,
You are absolutely right. As Judge Smales would say, “Some people simply do not belong!”
I am with Sonies on this. I find people very nice and kind in Chicago and quite accepting. I have never been seriously harassed by youngsters and I am not 6 foot 6 inches tall (are you really that tall Sonies?). But I make an effort to smile at them or even say hi, it takes them often by surprise…lol
That being said, parents should make sure they keep an eye on their teenagers, as we all remember one does stupid things at that age while in a group : )
UPDATE: MIAMI ‘WAR ZONE’ DURING URBAN WEEKEND…
‘I was scared for my life’…
Poet ‘Da Real One’ Gunned Down In Front Of Miami Poetry Cafe…
Violent crime explodes in Myrtle during Black Bike Week; 8-hour hell…
Rib Fest At Rochester beach turns rowdy…
Riot On Long Island…
Urban Melee In Charlotte…
Chaos causes DNC concern for convention…
Unruly urban crowd shuts down Nashville water park…
Emanuel shuts down packed Chicago beach; ‘heat-related illnesses’…
REPORT: ‘Dozens of gang bangers’…
TEEN GANGS UNLEASHED ON BOSTON BEACH
http://www.drudgereport.com
yeah, it’s the suburbs. Ha!
“Heh. Thought that was you in the church thread, not WLS.”
haha I couldn’t remember which it was and was too lazy to look it up!
and yes i may be tall but who cares does a throng of a dozen teens care? probably not! then again I don’t wear expensive clothes, or jewelry or expensive shoes either, so maybe they don’t see me as a target.
this “news” is just an example of what happens when you have access to information within seconds, and big corporations that want advertising $$$ and basically have to fabricate news in order to keep up with the times. and fear/awfulness sells, so why not go with it? And I wonder how many meth lab busts and gang related shootings happened in the burbs over the weekend? probably just as many, even though 60% of the population in the US lives in urban regions and, well its a lot harder to get away with crimes when there’s hundreds of people around like in the city.
Highland Park HS is good.
For all the crowing about New Trier in Chicago, their national merit record pales in comparison to the powerhouse private schools (30 kids out of 1200+ really?). Many of these test 1/4 or more of their class each year at national merit semi final level.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-COLLEGE0711-sort.html
Not to stir the pot, but I believe Clio went to one of these esteemed schools.
Anon- why would I want to live in the cheapest house in Kenilworth? Just so those cake eaters can look down and pity the ‘poor’ family, no thanks. You go ahead and cut the crust off your white bread.
“why would I want to live in the cheapest house in Kenilworth”
You wouldn’t. And the one Anon referenced isn’t. In fact, the “cheapest” house sells well below a GZ lot value, despite the fact that those lots are 2x bigger, have stable and well established neighbors and have houses that are far more inhabitable than the poorly built tear downs in Chicago.
“why would I want to live in the cheapest house in Kenilworth?”
I dunno, you’re insecure about how your co-workers and in-laws perceive you and fear being around people less WASP-y than you? I don’t know you Phil, so I can’t intelligently speculate as to your reasons.
Me, I’ve lived a 15 minute (+/- 10 minute) walk from this house for a decade, so I’m not too interested in K’worth, just wanted to save my friend JMM the time.
“Me, I’ve lived a 15 minute (+/- 10 minute) walk from this house for a decade, so I’m not too interested in K’worth”
Gee, as anyone who went to Northwestern can also attest, doesn’t mean they know anything about the place.
“Gee, as anyone who went to Northwestern can also attest, doesn’t mean they know anything about the place.”
That makes even less sense than what I wrote, which is saying something.
“And the one Anon referenced isn’t. In fact, the “cheapest” house sells well below a GZ lot value, despite the fact that those lots are 2x bigger, have stable and well established neighbors and have houses that are far more inhabitable than the poorly built tear downs in Chicago.”
Lots in North Center are around 375k, care to show me a house in Kenilworth selling ‘well below that’?
Maybe West of Western or not in Bell. Prime lots will still cost you 450k+.
In KW proper, lots have traded less than 400k recently.
Without bothering to look more than 10 sec, here is one, you find the others
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Kenilworth/550-Sterling-Rd-60043/home/13784139
“Prime lots will still cost you 450k+.”
Latest ones I know off the top range from ~$440 to ~$550.
“makes even less sense”
Transient residence as an NWU student doesn’t count, sorry.
Damn Anon, I was on point on that one. And I have never lived within a 15 minute walk of North Center.
“Transient residence as an NWU student doesn’t count”
Doesn’t count for what? You’re plumbing the depths now, my friend.
“Damn Anon, I was on point on that one.”
I would hope so, with as much resi real estate as you (indirectly) own in the general area and as much as you know about class sizes and the relative merits of the local schools.
This is directly across from Coonley school. 380k. A Yellow frame, just south of welles park recently sold for the same.
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Illinois/Chicago/sold/20564687-4028-N-Bell-Ave-Chicago-IL-60618
not sure what the cost of the teardown factors in…..
$285k on Claremont, east of Western in Coonley.
http://www.trulia.com/homes/Illinois/Chicago/sold/20564393-4118-N-Claremont-Ave-Chicago-IL-60618
“For all the crowing about New Trier in Chicago, their national merit record pales in comparison to the powerhouse private schools (30 kids out of 1200+ really?). Many of these test 1/4 or more of their class each year at national merit semi final level.”
Not THIS discussion again. For all the obsession over New Trier or Hinsdale Central- no one ever wants to admit that most people’s kids are average and that they’re going to go to Iowa or U of I (or fill in the blank with the state school) regardless of if they go to Lane Tech, Latin, or New Trier or Andover or Choate or St. Lawrence.
The reality is- very few kids go to the elite colleges from ANY of these schools. They’re all really just preparing them to go to pretty good or just so-so colleges and all these high schools mentioned can do that.
It reminds me of an article from the WSJ about 6 years ago.
In it, immigrant parents in NY scrimped and saved from running their dry cleaning business to send their son to Hotchkiss School- an elite boarding school in Connecticut- instead of Stuyvesant, where he had also gotten in. That’s the elite public high school. They spent $25k a year to send him there thinking it would get him into an ivy league school.
But someone has to come in last in the class at Hotchkiss, right? Even if all the kids are pretty smart. The kid in the article finished about 40th in his class, though, out of like 100 students at the time. It wasn’t good enough to get him into the ivies, obviously. And while Hotchkiss has “connections”- which is what the parents were paying for- they can’t help every kid.
He ended up getting into a lot of really good schools like Johns Hopkins, Carneige Mellon etc. He ended up attending Johns Hopkins. His parents were crushed. They had spent all that money on the prestige high school name thinking it would buy him an “in.”
But maybe, as JMM suggested, the kid in the article at least has his high school proudly displayed on his resume.
Speaking of Lane Tech, which is often ignored or “dissed” in this thread, there is an article in today’s Trib (paper or on-line) about its plans to enhance its math and science programs.
Just out of curiosity – if you were a Catholic parent of a teenager, would you prefer to send him/her to St. Ben, Lane Tech or Gordon Tech?
” if you were a Catholic parent of a teenager, would you prefer to send him/her to St. Ben, Lane Tech or Gordon Tech?”
Assuming the kid gets into Lane–which isnt a given–unless Catholic or smaller school or both (all valid for any given kid) is the more important thing, it would be foolish, imo, to choose either of those options over Lane. LA or Ignatius would be a different question.
Small schools like SB or GT can’t compete in terms of the wealth of offerings on tap at LT in course selection, sports and activities. However, if the kid in question would thrive better in a more personal environment with fewer classmates and smaller classes, the two Catholics might be the way to go. It’s hard to even compare a school with 4,000 kids to one like St. Ben’s HS, which has maybe 250, I believe?
Bri… The real value comes 25 years later when you can’t do the math of how much money your friends and previosu alum on facebook are now in control of. You think an Andover guy doesn’t pass thru a resume for further evaluation when he sees Andover.
I have a friend from Andover, great guy. Went to U.Wisconsin of all places, graduated and went to work 25 hrs a day for Soros. Remove Andover, leave UW, and that does not happen.
I think Wisconsin had more CEO’s of fortune 500 companies than any other school (tied with Harvard) a couple of years ago. All that beer/partying combined with some studying makes those grads great schmoozers…
IDK,
I would rather have the cheaper larger better home in HP than than the comparable priced home in Keni. yes NT and blah blah blah, we know it cranks out top *test scores but HPHS is not far behind it.
you really dont need the *best schools just pick the ones in the top 20 and you will be ok.
your value per dollar, home price and taxes compared to what you get for that dollar HP is hard to beat anywhere in chicagoland right now. but most people dont look at value per dollar as a whole, they look at what they would like in a lifestyle find a area that provides it then try to find the value per dollar in the very small radius they created.
I will say if my job was in the north burbs, groove family would be already out of chicago and living in Highland Park.
Going back to Coonley school and related to what Sabrina is saying: Of course there are individual schools in the suburbs that “beat out” Coonley in terms of test scores, and vice versa. But there are now WAY more than a handful of CPS schools that completely hold their own against the suburban districts. At Coonley, 92% of all the kids met or exceeded test standards last year, which is exactly the same percentage in Glenview’s school district as a whole. So people who think they have to move to suburbs like Glenview to have their kids surrounded by other smart kids are wrong. Of course, they may want to move out there to get more house for the money or other reasons, like the hoodlum element described above. Not to mention the high school hassle factor.
dave.. Are you suggesting i wear my Bucky the Badger Bong Team T-shirt to my next interview?
Your comment was logical to me. I’ll take a player over an academic just about every time!
“went to work 25 hrs a day for Soros.”
This doesn’t sound like an ideal life to me. I don’t care how much $$ he’s earning.
The supposed “top schools” don’t bring about the most social people you like to be around – those you’d want to hang out with or have on your team at work – you need a combination of smarts and social skills. Many people I know from the HYS mold are socially awkward and have some sort of obsessive disorder/eating disorder/prescription med issue. Not everyone from there is like that, but living in a pressure cooker for years does that to you, and I certainly don’t want to be working under someone like that.
dave and michelle.. I couldn’t agree more. Well the 25 hr day is a price you do have to pay to get your start in that world. A weeding out stamina test of sorts. But i agree, long term, insanely unhealthy.
IMHO the teacher pay issue, when you boil it down, is really just about real estate taxes. Long term homeowners in good school districts are trying to sell their homes, with $600, $800 or $1000 a month taxes, to a younger generation of buyers, who still have school aged children, and neither the current homeowner nor the potential buyer wants to pay that much tax, which is the foundation of the above average compensation (with benefits) to teachers, municipal employees, etc.
“I will say if my job was in the north burbs, groove family would be already out of chicago and living in Highland Park.”
Me too Groove! HP high school is excellent. As I said- your kid will go to U of I from NT or HP- so what’s the difference? Your kid will probably ENJOY high school at HPH versus the pressure cooker at NT anyway.
“I have a friend from Andover, great guy. Went to U.Wisconsin of all places, graduated and went to work 25 hrs a day for Soros. Remove Andover, leave UW, and that does not happen.”
This is east coast ONLY. In the midwest and especially on the west coast they don’t give a f*ck that you went to Andover. In fact, most wouldn’t even know what it was. This is why I no longer live on the east coast.
The west coast is really illuminating about things such as schooling, your lineage, whether your ancestors came over on the Mayflower- they simply don’t care. It’s much more a meritocracy (whether in LA or in SF.)
Oh- and if you really want to know how messed up a lot of these elite high schools are (and what it does to the kids who go there)- check out this recent article about Stuyvesant in NY (and what happens to the kids after they go to their elite colleges etc.)
Total social misfits.
But life must be grand because they got into Harvard or Stanford, right?
http://nymag.com/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/
“Me too Groove! HP high school is excellent. As I said- your kid will go to U of I from NT or HP- so what’s the difference? Your kid will probably ENJOY high school at HPH versus the pressure cooker at NT anyway”
U of I is a great school, i would have no problem if my kid(s) went there, and it would save me money too on tuition, travel, etc.
and from either HPHS or NTHS they will be well prepared for college work load. its the kid graduating from a Stienmentz or Mather that i will question the preparedness.
A few points I wanted to catch up on:
Most portions of Western I have seen have stoplights and crosswalks. It is a major street but it is not like you are fording the Mississippi. I appreciate that it’s too major a street to let young kids or maybe even grade schoolers cross while alone, but I’m not sure that there are that many kids that age wandering the city on their own anyway. Given the hysteria of some kid’s name being on the wall in real estate photos resulting in hissing e-mails to Sabrina, are we really to believe that most seven year olds are walking to school alone UNLESS a street like Western is in the way?
My wife and I thought about parochial school and decided that there is still too much of a culture in this archdiocese of ignoring or minimizing reports or evidence of abuse to put our kids anywhere near there.
Article more cultural asian thing too. Their problem in MANY professions is the dishonor of failure… Lose a trial, hari-kari, bad day trading, hari-kari.. i personally like people who seek failure.
I have too many friends from the schools you are discussing not to state that MOST are well adjusted, successful, polite, sociable, great friends.
Provided that their kids don’t have any special education needs, educated, attentive, learning-oriented parents have little to worry about when it comes to the educational quality of schools. Do I want my kids to receive the best possible eduation? Of course. But while I hope they attend Lincoln elem and Latin for HS, I doubt they’d be any worse off by attending Alcott for elem and then LP for HS, or whatever the decent combination may be.
Not only did I attend a very mediocre high school, but I also made almost no effort to learn or do the work in school, and barely graduated. Starting undergrad 12 years later, I graduated with a nearly perfect GPA (damn you Spanish class!), from a very good public university. A large portion of the credit for that educational outcome is owed to the efforts my parents made at home during my elementary and early adolescent years (being supportive, involved, enouraging, etc.).
Basically, I’m all for paying teachers $100k/year, and investing in a school environment that challenges students. But when it comes to school quality (in terms of both safety and educational outcomes), my chief concern is the parents. Quality parents = (mostly) quality students. (I know, I know, I just got done claiming that despite having quality parents, I became a skateboarding hooligan in high school, and no doubt a bad influence on some; thus the “mostly” qualifier.)
“I became a skateboarding hooligan in high school, and no doubt a bad influence on some; thus the “mostly” qualifier.)”
yep to keep it olskool i was sponsored by slimeball wheels, SMA and shortly by H-Street.
besides messing around in targets toy isle, i havent been on a board in like 10 years. I miss it 🙁
Natas!
“Natas!”
no but i still have a board of his in my garage somewhere. i still have G&S trucks and a vision gator deck 🙂
I skated too… I actually find it weird that skating is a little more mainstream. I remember being one of the few black kids into skating growing up. Definitely made me stick out like a sore thumb in the hood. Now I see all kinds of black kids skating around town like it is nothing.
Gave up the skating and got into racing BMX though. All those falls were a b*tch. Now my knees barely work.
My 7-year old walks to school alone (OK – not alone – he walks with my older son, who’s 11). They do have to cross one main street and a railroad track, but there’s a crossing guard.
The advantages of living in HP!
actually now that you mention it I have noticed more “hooligans” skateboarding, especially over the past weekend
“besides messing around in targets toy isle, i havent been on a board in like 10 years. I miss it”
You just need to move back to your ancestral homeland of Logan and hang out at the park under the Kennedy and be the creepy old guy who *isn’t* their weed dealer.
“You just need to move back to your ancestral homeland of Logan and hang out at the park under the Kennedy and be the creepy old guy who *isn’t* their weed dealer.”
thank you for my daily laugh 🙂 how did it go? the best thing about teenagers are they stay the same age even though i keep getting older.
“I remember being one of the few black kids into skating growing up. Definitely made me stick out like a sore thumb in the hood. Now I see all kinds of black kids skating around town like it is nothing.”
in chicago it was common back in my day to see all races skating the odd one was the indian (hindu) guy in our crew and to make it worse he had rails and a nose guard because his parents would kill him if he scratched up his deck.
“You just need to move back to your ancestral homeland of Logan and hang out at the park under the Kennedy”
I’m happy it’s there but never understood how you could get clearance to put a kids area under the expressway.
“weed dealer”
What? Shocking!
truthfully if i had a 16 yr old son… I’d keep him focused on the most important thing. 16yr old girls… Hey.. That’s the only one if you try to compensate for later in life you get 20.
Ze, a small correction, it is harakiri : )
“My 7-year old walks to school alone (OK – not alone – he walks with my older son, who’s 11). They do have to cross one main street and a railroad track, but there’s a crossing guard.
The advantages of living in HP!”
The advantage of having normal parents that don’t think everyone on the street is a serial killer.
BTW, this discussion is off topic too, but I don’t see JJJ complaining that folks should email. Now when few of us ladies were talking about number of bathrooms and cleaning on a day old post, after exchange of 6-7 posts, he was complaining. I wonder if this is because he is sensitive to the topic or just cannot tolerate female chatter?!
“this discussion is off topic too”
He likes you two and was pulling your hair.
Actually Sabrina, I’d say at many of these schools a good 1/4 end up at ivy, another 1/4 at other top tier (MIT, Stanford, Duke, Georgetown) and another 1/4 at excellent liberal arts (Swarthmore, Amherst).
There is no accounting for some of the other kids. My sister went to HS with a very smart (now semi famous) kid from LA originally. Got into Princeton and turned it down for USC (back when USC was not as academically regarded). Reason: 4th generation to attend and family was in the industry there.
SPS sent about 1/5 to ivy some 20 years ago. So I disagree with your sour grapes assessment. Plus those who don’t coast into thr likes of Berkeley, Michigan, UVA without stressing about having to compete with other kids ala large public HS.
“a good 1/4 end up at ivy, another 1/4 at other top tier”
This is not correct. Look up the stats. We’ve discussed this before (about all the “top” schools.) There simply aren’t enough slots at the ivy league to take 5 from each of these schools at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and even Cornell and Penn (which are bigger.)
New Trier, for instance, is one of the bigger “feeder” schools into the HYP group- and they’re lucky if they get 5 for all 3 schools in any given year.
The private schools aren’t that much different. Maybe you missed our discussion of the lab school, Latin etc. Again- very few ivy leaguers. Some more into the other private schools. Some into the “public” ivies.
The whole point of the WSJ article- is that the kid would have gotten into the SAME schools, most likely, going to Stuyevasant than he did going to Hotchkiss except his poor parents worked their butts off to pay $25,000 – basically for nothing.
Your child has a better chance of getting into an ivy league school if you live in a geo state where they don’t see lots of candidates: North and South Dakota, Wyoming, Iowa, Idaho etc. The admissions office wants a diverse class. Admitting yet another private school rich kid doesn’t help them in that regard.
“Total social misfits.
But life must be grand because they got into Harvard or Stanford, right?”
uhh – I went to harvard AND stanford and i would hardly call myself a social misfit. Basically, people who went to these schools are improperly categorized as “misfits”. The vast majority are EXTREMELY socially adaptable and aware. The “misfits” are the ones who are too arrogant to care.. *oh, and by FAR the most misfits I have ever seen were from U of C !!!
“a good 1/4 end up at ivy, another 1/4 at other top tier”
“This is not correct. Look up the stats. We’ve discussed this before (about all the “top” schools.) There simply aren’t enough slots at the ivy league to take 5 from each of these schools at Harvard, Yale, Princeton and even Cornell and Penn (which are bigger.)”
Yes we have talked about this at least a couple times before and anon tabulated the stats, which are public for some of the schools. It was right at about a quarter matriculating at Ivys for either Andover or Exeter. I’d imagine SPS (haven’t seen that reference in a LONG time) is similar.
“uhh – I went to harvard AND stanford and i would hardly call myself a social misfit.”
clio, you forget, it’s not all about you (I also assume the reference is to undergrad).
“Yes we have talked about this at least a couple times before and anon tabulated the stats, which are public for some of the schools. It was right at about a quarter matriculating at Ivys for either Andover or Exeter. I’d imagine SPS (haven’t seen that reference in a LONG time) is similar”
It was Exeter. Isnt SPS a bit smaller? If so, I’d expect an even higher percentage.
And remember: those numbers were matriculants, not admissions. So the admit numbers are even higher.
And if NT only gets 5 into HYP, combined, that’s awful. As we saw, Payton, NSCP and Young get all averaged 5+ over several years with grad classes about 1/4 of NT.
“As we saw, Payton, NSCP and Young get all averaged 5+ over several years with grad classes about 1/4 of NT.”
No! No! No!
What are you talking about? We DISCUSSSED THIS!
We had someone come on here who was on the admissions committee or whatever it was at one of the big three (HYP.) He/she said there were some years where only 1 or 2 got in from, yes, Payton, Young and NSCP. Some years NONE (depending on the popularity of some schools some years versus others- i.e. fewer students applying.)
Go look at the list of admittances (NOT matriculations.) If you think all those schools are getting 5 or more to HYP- dream on! New Trier is one of the top in the country and it only gets like 5 to Harvard. That is the TOP.
I think someone posted that Palo Alto High School got like 14 admittances to Stanford- also the top school for Stanford (not surprising- given its location.)
The top feeder school for Harvard is Latin in Boston. It got something like 21 admits in the prior year.
That is it.
Dream on. Most kids will go to the Big Ten or UVA or UNC (if they are LUCKY- since those only take the top from out of state now.)
The competition is incredible. In one of Yale’s recent admittances, they let in only 7 students from all of the United Kingdom. I can’t remember which year it was I was looking at. For the class of 2014- Penn let in 53 students from Illinois and Princeton let in 44. There are plenty of high schools around the state that would qualify students to get into those schools. Do you really think just 3 or 4 high schools from Chicago make up half of those admitted when you have the private high schools and the other outstanding suburban schools like Hinsdale Central, etc.?
So- if your kid goes to these schools- your kid is NOT going to HYP. There are probably a few more accepted to the bigger ivies- like Cornell.
I don’t know why people obsess about college admissions. If you child has ambition- they will get in no matter what high school they go to. If they don’t- they won’t.
By the way- the charter all-boys high school on the south side got its first ivy acceptance this year (I think it was to Cornell.)
Clio- you clearly didn’t read the NY Magazine article. The kids are conditioned to simply do well on the admissions test into Stuyvesant. They spend their LIVES studying for it- get into high school – and then don’t have the social skills (or creative skills) that their classmates have by the time they get to college.
So they get to college and, having been obsessed with tests for the past 4 years- both to get into high school and college- they find they can’t function at college.
Very illuminating article. Learning by test taking isn’t always the best way to “learn.”
By the way- I’m tired of discussing “what schools will get my kid into the ivy league.”
It’s a sad obsession by too many people.
Again- if your kid has the ambition- he/she has the ambition. No high school is going to hold them back. The truly talented rise to the top.
5+ between the three schools, not 5+ at each.
How many UK students applied to Yale thta year? That they “only” admitted 7 means nothing witout knowing how many applied. Why would *any* UK student choose to go to Yale for $40k or whatever it is now when Oxbridge is about $5k per year (yes, about 3500 pounds annual tuition)? Have to be rich enough to not care.
The person who was the admissions person was NOT from HYP, but refused to believe the numbers. A person who was an alum and a local interviewer who had access to the actual numbers had it pegged at 2 or 3 most years from those 3 HSs into the undisclosed school.
And the Exeter numbers are rock solid, unless you think they are outright lying to their kids, parents and the public. Ivies were 25%+, and another half going to comparable -ish schools.
“By the way- I’m tired of discussing “what schools will get my kid into the ivy league.””
You and everyone else. It is funny though because those schools represent what maybe 0.3% of all college students in the US?
Yet I see a lot more than 1 out of every 300 parents talking about their kids going to the ivies.
Everyone thinks their kids are going to be so successful in life and such high-flyers and not wind up like their parents, but DNA/mother nature will say otherwise.
I really could care less about Exeter. I went to school with those kids- and they are clueless, rich and spoiled. Same with Lawrenceville Academy, Choate, Andover and others.
That’s why I live in the Midwest- where the public schools are good so I don’t have to ship my kid off to boarding school while I’m off in Europe on my vacations.
We’re talking Chicago real estate. So- again- if you think your kid will get into Harvard by sending them to Payton- think again. They have the same, or better chance, of getting in from Hinsdale Central, Downers Grove North, Libertyville, York etc. etc.
Your child will likely go to college. That’s about all you can ask for. Competition is now worldwide. Most kids can’t compete with the sheer number who want to attend our top colleges from China, India, Singapore (yes England!), France etc. etc.
“Everyone thinks their kids are going to be so successful in life and such high-flyers and not wind up like their parents, but DNA/mother nature will say otherwise.”
Right! I’m with you on this topic Bob.
I’ve often wondered what will happen in Silicon Valley in a couple of years when all those “top school” educated dot-comers whose kids all now go to the same 3 or 4 high schools on Peninsula realize that even though they went to Harvard- their kids face a lower chance because of the sheer amount of competition in those high schools. They can only let in so many kids from those high schools- yet the parents all expect them to go.
There were a lot of suicides at Palo Alto High School when I lived out there (kids stepping in front of trains.) The pressure was really high there. Too many demanding parents.
“Why would *any* UK student choose to go to Yale for $40k or whatever it is now when Oxbridge is about $5k per year (yes, about 3500 pounds annual tuition)?”
By the way- don’t you read the news? Tuitions have skyrocketed there. That’s why the students have been rioting in the streets.
“THE University of Oxford today became the fourth English institution to announce the level of tuition fees it will charge from autumn 2012, and the first to detail how students from poor families will pay less.
In an open letter, Andrew Hamilton, vice-chancellor, said that while students from families with an annual income of more than £25,000 ($40,000) will be charged the maximum sum permitted by government, namely £9,000 per year, those whose parents brought home less than £16,000 and were thus in the bottom quintile in the earnings distribution will pay just £3,500 to cover their first year and £6,000 per year thereafter.”
“It was Exeter. Isnt SPS a bit smaller? If so, I’d expect an even higher percentage.”
I was going to agree, but number based on http://www.sps.edu/podium/default.aspx?t=6543 appears to be 24 percent (if denominator by totaling the list is correct). About 10 percent, 13 students a year (if assms correct), into HYP.
“I really could care less about Exeter. I went to school with those kids- and they are clueless, rich and spoiled.”
My casual impression is that they are trying to make the types of transitions that HYP have been making toward becoming more meritocratic (including making serious financial aid efforts), while staying true to their “traditions” (i.e. fundraising). FWIW, I have negative desire to send my kid to Andover/Exeter/etc.
“There were a lot of suicides at Palo Alto High School when I lived out there”
Historically, that’s more Gunn than Paly, for whatever reason.
“By the way- don’t you read the news? ”
Yes, and I hadn’t noted that it is yet 2012, nor that the exchange rate had gone to 4.5:1.
“FWIW, I have negative desire to send my kid to Andover/Exeter/etc.”
Second. And it’s not at all like one need only write a check to send them there, in any event. Except for those who *will* go (3+ generation types), it’s functionally as competitive as the s-e hs in the city.
But I also don’t like the “no school sends 1 in 4 of its grads to HYP” nonsense because it just isnt factual.
As a father of an Exonian, I can say that the pressure that these kids at these top schools face is ridiculous. Sure I can brag about my son and take great pride in the fact that he got into Yale, but there is always a part of me that feels guilty – maybe he would have been happier in a regular community high school and regular college – but, then of course, then I snap out of it and realize that it is for the best….. you really have to push your kids as much as they can go – they will thank you in the end. The alternative is that they end up a regular working stiff (like G or HD) , counting pennies and trying to figure the bottom of the housing bust so they can buy a tiny house on a tiny lot……
Oh clio has a son now and he attends a very prestigious high school. My how the mythical character just keeps on growing.
See how successful you and your kids can be in life if you go long on real estate? LMFAO.
Keep shilling, you fake apparition. I guess it helps pass the time between the dearth of transaction volume.
bob.. We heard about eastern prep schools and yale before… Great go to yale and everyone raises the eyebrow and thinks that same one thing, your whole life.
The funny part is being in your early 20’s with a kid, a wife, attending med school-residency, and simultaneously converting 5 or 6 buildings with 5 floors each, while also moving between cities.
Impressive!
Sabrina – I was over in London around the time of some of those student protests; without going into the nuances and researching again the tuition was raising from basically nothing to say a max of $14k all in per year.
This was only for students in Britain; I believe Wales had not raised the tuition for Welsh students as I recall some “it’s not fair that I have to pay when they don’t” type comments on BBC.
So I’d back anon on this. If I was a parent in the UK, unless I had FU money I wouldn’t necessarily be championing to ship the little one over to the US for $250-300k worth of Ivy education. Quick math as I just looked to see that Harvard’s rate is $52k this year for tuition & fees alone. Woo.
Overall, I don’t see the education jockeying conversation portrayed on CC as being all about getting kids into HYP either for what it is worth. Rather that most would be happy that their kids did get the preparation to succeed in which ever path they chose. Clio & JMM excepted of course.
Cheers!
“Great go to yale and everyone raises the eyebrow and thinks that same one thing, your whole life.”
Heh.
Under contract.
too much money flowing around north center shouldn’t somebody look into that?
“too much money flowing around north center shouldn’t somebody look into that?”
There’s a lot of stuff selling around theres.
“There’s a lot of stuff selling around theres.”
Of course, now that I say that, curious if it’s really true or just my impression (which is based on listed places selling or going under contract, so it may be based more on percent of listings sold than number of sales).
G, if have time, curious how this YTD v last YTD compares for SFH between $750K and $1.25MM, sold or under contract, in Bell and Coonley (or say Addison/Damen/Montrose/Western as an approx)?
Sold for $805K.