Stuck In Your Property and Concerned About Chicago’s Schools? You’re Not Alone
This is a housing blog and not a CPS blog (there are some excellent ones out there, by the way) but often our chatter does turn to the neighborhood school near the property.
We have discussed how some north side elementary schools are being turned around by parents who are “stuck” in their homes (can’t sell because they’re underwater) and therefore are looking at local school options and by lovers of the city lifestyle who simply want to raise their children away from the “soulless” suburbs (your word, not mine.)
As some of you linked to yesterday, the Chicago Tribune recently discussed the growth in CPS enrollment in some north and northwest side neighborhoods.
Student attendance in the northern stretch of the city climbed 2.4 percent during the last two years from 121,897 to 124,836 students in 2010-11, according to district enrollment records. The growth, while slight, came as attendance slipped in every other city zone — the West, Southwest, South and Far South sides.
Some of it may be by choice (wanting to remain in the city) and some of it might be due to the housing bust.
Claire Wapole grew up riding city buses to school and studying in city classrooms, where she took creative writing and even dissected a shark.
But multimillion-dollar deficits and the academic inequities in Chicago Public Schools had her agonizing over the choice she and her husband had made to raise their own children in the city.
When her son turned 5, she toured private schools but cringed at the expense. She tried to enroll him in one of Chicago’s top public magnet schools, but “he wasn’t reading ‘War and Peace’ so he didn’t get in,” she said with a laugh. So the couple selected a neighborhood school on a hunch that a new principal and committed parents would spur improvement.
Come Labor Day, Amy Smolensky will enroll her children for another year at Burley Elementary School. On Monday, with an eye to the upcoming year, she and her husband, Dan, coaxed their second- and third-grade sons to write in their summer journals for a few minutes.
Smolensky volunteers with the parent group, fundraises for the Lakeview school known for its literature and technology programs and volunteers with Raise Your Hand, a coalition of CPS parents.
Still, the to-stay-or-to-leave-Chicago question remains a perennial conversation topic among her friends, one fueled by every budget cut, unpopular district policy or competitive turn in the admissions required for the city’s top schools. Many parents now eye high school and the long odds of acceptance to a selective enrollment school as the new pressure point that could drive them from Chicago.
“I feel like we are here to stay … yet it’s a roller-coaster ride,” Smolensky said. “It’s a constant struggle.”
Many of those in the article live in neighborhood school districts.
The question we most often chatter about is: while some of the elementary schools are decent, what about high school?
For all the talk about getting a kid into an Ivy League college or other selective college, it seems it is even a greater feat to get into one of Chicago’s selective high schools.
While she likes the grade school, Wapole already worries about high school even though her oldest child is only 10.
CPS students submitted 63,267 applications for entry to the city’s nine selective enrollment high schools for the coming school year, district records show. Of those, 8 percent — or 5,196 — were accepted. Northside College Prep High School, one of the state’s top schools by any measure, accepted 296 of the 7,419 applications submitted.
“In the city, there’s this anxiety of at 13 or 14, where is my kid going to go? … That’s the part where I look enviously at my suburban sisters,” Wapole said.
Grade schools were no different. Acceptance rates to Chicago’s magnet grade schools spanned 21 percent to 2 percent for the coming school year, according to district records. In kindergarten, competition was worse.
Drummond Montessori Elementary School, for instance, received 703 applications for three available spots in kindergarten this fall. Because the public school’s Montessori program begins in preschool, most spots fill and make the competition for kindergarten seats more difficult. Drummond received 400 applications for 36 spots in the preschool program for 3-year-olds, district records show.
Recent changes to the admissions rules further fray parents’ nerves.
Many, however, are simply throwing in the towel.
Brandy Isaac thought she’d stay in Chicago when she and her husband bought a duplex in the city’s Southport Corridor in 2004. They liked the neighborhood school and the magnet school down the road.
“We thought this would buy us seven years. Then we would probably go to the suburbs,” Isaac recalled.
But deterred by the magnet admissions process, intrigued by anecdotes from friends in the suburbs and lured by the idea of a lawn where her kids could play, Isaac spent a year researching different towns and school systems that might suit her family. They settled on Glenview and enrolled their oldest child in kindergarten at Lyon Elementary School last fall.
“It still is emotional, but there’s no remorse. That went away quickly,” Isaac said. “We joke about when the kids are off to college, we may move back to the city.”
Will the Catholic Schools or other private schools become the choice for many parents?
“We think what we’re seeing is more families who may have bought a one- or two-bedroom condo with the intent to be there for a limited number of years. … Those families are staying longer,” said Ryan Blackburn, a spokesman for archdiocese schools.
Surrounded by brick bungalows and towering trees, St Matthias Transfiguration Elementary School sits in the city’s Lincoln Square neighborhood. The school’s enrollment ballooned 92 percent during the last seven years to reach 332 students registered for fall, according to school officials.
St. Matthias Pastor John Sanaghan said he sees more young families in the church pews as well. Last year, Sanaghan said he baptized eight children for every funeral held at the church, whereas the church recorded 1.5 baptisms for every funeral in 2000.
“I looked out my window one day last spring and there was a traffic jam of baby buggies,” Sanaghan said. “It’s like a town square.”
Will the housing bust have the unexpected result of actually leading to an improvement in the Chicago Public Schools?
More families sticking with city and private schools on the North and Northwest sides [Chicago Tribune, Tara Malone, July 19, 2011]
“As some of you linked to yesterday”
I’ll take that as Sabrina’s shout-out to Chris M…
when i read that article yesterday, all that came to my mind is OVER-CROWDING and hope the stuck yuppies pump good money into the local econ.
yet the already overcrowed schools will have more brats jamming themselves into barely functional schools.
“I’ll take that as Sabrina’s shout-out to Chris M”
oh snaps ChrisM caught the Icarus shout-out syndrome.
when I read the article, I thought “where have I heard this before?”
then it occurred to me. It’s been presented several times on CC that since people are stuck in their 3/2, 2/2 and 2/1s they are trying to improve the nearby school system.
As I said yesterday – I think this could work out nicely for CPS, but it may be at the cost of suburban school districts, who are already seeing dwindling enrollment being used as an excuse to cut funding.
Great post Sabrina…really explains the effects of the housing market.
“Great post Sabrina…really explains the effects of the housing market.”
this is the *REAL trickle down theory
I think it’s more than that – I think some people are just both stubborn/determined not to get ripped off by the City.
In their world (I say “their” as they are not natives), if you pay good taxes you are supposed to get a good public school.
It’s kinda hard to argue with that. But where the rubber meets the road is can these folks improve local schools without simply gentrifying the neighborhood/removing all the poorer families.
The biggest problem is CPS is it serves massive amounts of poor people, compounded with large numbers of kids who have both poor parents and poor parents who aren’t English speakers – they have different priorities from the “typical” middle class.
I have a more middle-class neighbor from Nicaragua, and I guarantee you he couldn’t give a crap about test scores so much as he just wants his kid to be safe and not pressured into a gang. He went Catholic for school. I have other Mexican neighbors who have large families, and they simply don’t have that option – they want their kids safe, but judging from people I know in the system, they also want the school to function as a safety net. To feed their kids, in case of teen moms to provide day care, etc., etc.
There really are no easy answers to this predicament/juxtaposition.
“then it occurred to me. It’s been presented several times on CC that since people are stuck in their 3/2, 2/2 and 2/1s they are trying to improve the nearby school system.”
“they also want the school to function as a safety net. To feed their kids”
*Really* big deal.
“Student attendance in the northern stretch of the city climbed 2.4 percent during the last two years from 121,897 to 124,836 students in 2010-11, according to district enrollment records. The growth, while slight, came as attendance slipped in every other city zone — the West, Southwest, South and Far South sides.”
Isn’t this just due to population changes? Besides, I’m still not convinced that the decision-making that got them stuck will necessarily translate to good educational decisions for their kids.
From “real estate only goes up” to “the schools will improve”? I guess ya gotta believe something.
“yet the already overcrowed schools will have more brats jamming themselves into barely functional schools.”
Is that how it works? My impression is that higher enrollment from the neighborhood would result in fewer kids being bussed in from other areas in most cases. I guess if the school was already saturated with neighborhood kids they’d have an issue, but aren’t most schools still below that point?
“Is that how it works? My impression is that higher enrollment from the neighborhood would result in fewer kids being bussed in from other areas in most cases. I guess if the school was already saturated with neighborhood kids they’d have an issue, but aren’t most schools still below that point?”
“most”? nope. most of the “good” schools? Maybe.
Will be interesting if Lincoln starts to get crowded–current class sizes are ~24–if anything changes there.
What’s the point in getting an education anymore. With all the liberal socialists out there, the best thing to do is to remain uneducated and take all the handouts that taxpayers pay for.
“but aren’t most schools still below that point?”
with all the schools i see building(built) an addition almost the same size on the old “unused” playground lot to *house the kids shows me different.
but as always i go off feel, word of mouth, and eyeballing instead of data to make these comments/opinions
“Besides, I’m still not convinced that the decision-making that got them stuck will necessarily translate to good educational decisions for their kids.”
G-string,
i have the same observation, but one thing i found in life is the greatest ideas and inventions came when being squished like luke and his pals were in the imperial(empirial?) garbage chute.
Hey, all you parents looking for good public schools! Come on up to Evanston – a fabulous, clean, community with good schools and lots of tree-lined streets. Buy my 5-bedroom Victorian rowhouse and your kids can walk to school along with those of my neighbours.
“CPS students submitted 63,267 applications for entry to the city’s nine selective enrollment high schools for the coming school year, district records show. ”
This seems slightly misleading. There are less than 30,000 CPS 8th graders in chicago. Ok, you say, it says 63k applications, not 63k applicants. But there’s really only one application per kid, and i think you can list up to 6 high schools in order of preference. so the 63k must be counting every high school listed on every application, which is not really an appropriate denominator for the stated 8% “acceptance rate”
It’s not the school, it’s the parents of the children in the school. Even if the parents made stupid financial decisions with respect to real estate, that doesn’t necessarily translate into stupid children. They’ll have smart kids and that’ll help improve the school.
If there is really a lot of overcrowding in schools, wouldn’t private school enrollment also be up? I know there’s significant available enrollment capacity at certain schools like Gordon Tech. I know that’s a high school, but there have been quite a few private schools close over the past 25 years in the city, which would also have boosted enrollment in CPS.
“We have discussed how some north side elementary schools are being turned around by parents who are “stuck” in their homes (can’t sell because they’re underwater) and therefore are looking at local school options and by lovers of the city lifestyle who simply want to raise their children away from the “soulless” suburbs (your word, not mine.)”
Are the “turnarounds” really being driven in any significant part by parents that are stuck? Many (most?) of the turnarounds started well before bubble bursting. And are a big proportion of the parents of kids in the turnaround schools stuck in the sense that they are underwater and would move if they were not underwater?
sure – keep in mind that if they improve the school, the property values will likely go up as well (it may take a few years, obviously) when the economy rebounds. then these folks may end up having the last laugh.
well, after the golden-parachute types who got bailed out, anyway.
“It’s not the school, it’s the parents of the children in the school. Even if the parents made stupid financial decisions with respect to real estate, that doesn’t necessarily translate into stupid children. They’ll have smart kids and that’ll help improve the school.”
I agree. I think the kind of person who views themselves as being “stuck” isn’t likely the kind that was really in the trenches doing any kind of volunteer work in the first place.
These are the followers, not the leaders.
“Are the “turnarounds” really being driven in any significant part by parents that are stuck? Many (most?) of the turnarounds started well before bubble bursting. And are a big proportion of the parents of kids in the turnaround schools stuck in the sense that they are underwater and would move if they were not underwater?”
“Drummond received 400 applications for 36 spots in the preschool program for 3-year-olds, district records show.”
hahahahaha c’mon people, at some point this is just insane. this kinda of stuff for 3 year olds?
I’m not sure how many apps were received by the pre-school (a co-op) our kid (who’ll still be under 3 at the time) will be attending this coming school year, but we felt pretty fortunate to have “won” its admissions lottery (I presume there were 100’s of apps).
”
“Drummond received 400 applications for 36 spots in the preschool program for 3-year-olds, district records show.”
hahahahaha c’mon people, at some point this is just insane. this kinda of stuff for 3 year olds?
”
The statement is misleading, plenty of folks who know what they are actually talking about when it comes to school admission process talk about this article here, see #5 coment specifically on this statement, http://cpsobsessed.com/2011/07/19/northside-parents-staying-in-city-yay-yikes/
Anonny
Same here…we “won” the lottery for our private preschool. Feel fortunate as I have friends whose kids are still on the waitlist. My kid is no better than theirs. Some believe that its not really a “lottery.” I have no idea. They asked how I learned of the school on the application and I listed friends who sent their children there…but did not do anything ridiculous like have them send letters on behalf of my kid. Really, that’s nuts for preschool. I’d screen those types out if I were the director.
“The statement is misleading, plenty of folks who know what they are actually talking about when it comes to school admission process talk about this article here, see #5 coment specifically on this statement”
Nope, that’s on the *other* half of the statement with the 700 knuckleheads applying for the 3 Kindergarten spots, when the main admission time is at pre-K, where there *were* 400 apps for 36 spots. The 700 were applying for, essentially, transfer admission.
The *most* misleading part roma already hit–that there were 63k+ “applications” for HS, when that’s almost twice the number of *possible* applicants–it’a akin to saying some kid who applied to 25 colleges had a 4% acceptance rate, even if he got offer letters from all 25. Nobody gets multiple SEHS offers, unless they turn one down and get lucky off the waitlist.
wait, if I want my kid to go to kinder-garden i have to get them into pre-k?
say I moved into bell, or lincoln right before kid should start K, kid cant go bc didnt go to pre-school?
i have a couple years yet but i should probably figure this out
I’ve been lurking on CC for about 6 months now. I used to read Yochicago all the time. Anyway,
1.) I own a 2/2 in LP/OT which I would like to sell but I don’t think I can. (10 year area resident)
2.) I can afford a SFH home in North Center with nice finishes. 3.) I have a 2 year old so school matters.
4.) I work in the Loop.
Who else is in the same situation? Do I have skin in the game?
I think Glenview/Wilmette is in the near future….
“wait, if I want my kid to go to kinder-garden i have to get them into pre-k?”
At Drummond, yes.
“say I moved into bell, or lincoln right before kid should start K, kid cant go bc didnt go to pre-school?”
No (general) pre-k at Bell or Lincoln, so no, even if following were not true: across the board for attendance area schools, you live in the area, your kid goes there (if you want).
no, they are referring to a magnet montessori school — drummond is no longer an attendance-area neighborhood schools. the latter offer automatic enrollment for those living within the school’s area boundaries.
haha, anon is always so careful and precise, he’s like the anti-clio. bell only has pre-k for its (very well-regarded) deaf program.
“No (general) pre-k at Bell”
don’t care because I bought a place in a good school district unlike a lot of retards out there
“700 knuckleheads applying for the 3 Kindergarten spots, when the main admission time is at pre-K, where there *were* 400 apps for 36 spots”
Don’t want montessori for that long and not really looking to put kid in school fullish time this year, but still hate to admit I didn’t know this. Knucklehead it is.
“don’t care because I bought a place in a good school district unlike a lot of retards out there”
Well, la de da. You staying in your condo all through elem?
Dc. Many parents apply to multiple schools.
Fwiw all of my city parent friends have landed on their feet in terms of schools. Some have kids at magnet, private, parochial and selective enrollment.
Basically, if you are an informed, well-educated parent, your city kids can be too.
Poor
“Well, la de da. You staying in your condo all through elem?”
I’m more concerned that Sonies may have a kids(s).
Don’t let other people make key decisions about your life for you.
That’s what I say to those who hope that somehow, through a “lottery,” their kids might get into a school that will educate them.
Better to move to the “soulless” suburbs. Oh, by the way, not all suburbs are soulless. It doesn’t immediately turn into Schaumburg once you cross the city limits, contrary to the misinformed comments I see so often on this site.
Poor uneducated parents who don’t have the time or aptitude to figure out the system are the ones who getscrewed. But it’s themiddle class parents who do all of the complaining.
iPhone typos
“Well, la de da. You staying in your condo all through elem?”
sure why not, I’ll do it just to show you fools it can be done so i can say “I told you so” and look down upon you dorks with your 1/4 acre and 2 car garage with a minivan and a prius in it and 2400 sqft tract home like I am better than you for some reason due to my spatial geographic preferences. And my kid won’t turn out a stupid, dropout, in a gang, or in jail, or dead or whatever the huge fear is of sending your kid to a public school in the CPS system
The poor get screwed. The middle class complains. The rich laugh all the way to the bank.
What’s new?
“sure why not, I’ll do it just to show you fools it can be done so i can say “I told you so” and look down upon you dorks”
I’ll only be suitably impressed if said (hypothetical??) kid proceeds to attend your *current* attendance area HS, too.
i remember sonies saying he didnt want kids.
of course I dont want kids, what kind of self centered capitalistic jerk would want to voluntarily have their woman of interest crap out those disease bags/money vacuums
its economic suicide
but who knows, birth control does seem to fail almost way too often during recessions
I love how all these parents are obsessed with what early childhood schooling options they send their kids to yet when the chips fall they are 95% likely to end up at the same second tier big 10 school regardless of what you do. Not a judgment, as pretty much every study shows that, among graduate-educated folks, undergrad has little or no bearing on success anyway.
Urban stay at home mothers have to obessess about and compare something. Money is tight so material purchases are out? What a joke.
Roma, thanks for your knowledge/input on this. The SEHS stuff is definitely misleading! Dahliachi, you are right, the ones that are really in trouble are the parents that are uneducated. The educated ones will do what they need to to ensure their kids are in a decent school. The lazy educated ones will complain that they have to do work, but if you really want your kids to go to a good school, you will do the work to get them there which does include bringing them up right.
I hope that this real estate bust does help CPS out. It would be great, but somehow I doubt it. Some schools will definitely improve, but even the article focuses on the north/west side schoools. This bust won’t help the south/west schools at all and unfortunately CPS is one large system.
Why even worry about this whole admissions debacle. Move out to Naperville when your oldest turns three. Express train takes 33 minutes to get to union station. Factor in a ten minute walk to the station and to the office and your at work in 53 minutes. That’s not all that much longer than what it takes to get from the farther north neighborhoods on the brown line. Thrillville has pretty good downtown nightlife as well.
Is anyone else of the belief that anyone that has twins should be forced to kill one of them?
Obviously I need not ask about killing the parents who dress them identically.
I would walk away from my hypothetical mortgage contract in a heartbeat if it meant far better educational opportunities for my hypothetical kids.
“Obviously I need not ask about killing the parents who dress them identically.”
I’d like to see you try to kill the barbie twins parents. You would be one short-lived assassin.
Oops I meant the doublemint twins..it’s been a long day.
“Why even worry about this whole admissions debacle. Move out to Naperville”
Because Naperville sux?
Mike HG – have you seen the prices of homes in Naperville? They are quite high – of course, reading these posts all you have to do is wait 5 years they will be down 90%. Yeah, that is what the cribchatter posse is predicting!!!
“wait 5 years they will be down 90%. Yeah, that is what the cribchatter posse is predicting!!!”
No no no. When the bottom is in, sellers will be paying buyers to take the liabilities off their hands.
“No no no. When the bottom is in, sellers will be paying buyers to take the liabilities off their hands.”
I will take your unit off of your hands for 20k–I accept cash or cashier’s checks.
I don’t think people understand how important it is to expose your kids to all types of people from all different socioeconomic backgrounds and academic abilities. You guys just don’t get it…… I am sure that most parents would jump at the chance of sending their kids to the best schools surrounded by wealthy good people. However, the problem with that is that when they get out of school/college/grad school, they don’t realize that 99.999999999% of the world is full of stupid lazy people. They can’t relate to them, can’t socialize with them, and don’t understand them. More importantly, these losers won’t understand where your child is coming from (because they don’t have the intelligence, education, experience, or deeper understanding that your child will have) and will make fun of them, ridicule them, etc. This is why I keep saying that the best colleges/grad schools may not be the best thing for your child.
Very true. Be sure to expose your kids in small doses to D-bags like clio so they don’t later make the mistake of working for someone like this.
Pete, are you one of my employees?
“I love how all these parents are obsessed with what early childhood schooling options they send their kids to yet when the chips fall they are 95% likely to end up at the same second tier big 10 school regardless of what you do. Not a judgment, as pretty much every study shows that, among graduate-educated folks, undergrad has little or no bearing on success anyway.”
Thank you JMM. I’ve been saying this for awhile now. Your kid will get into Harvard from Lincoln Park High School or New Trier if they are truly Harvard material. If not- your kid will likely get into Iowa or MSU from either of those high schools anyway.
I recently met someone who graduated from Lake View high school and went to U of I. He’s living in Lakeview now and raising his kids there because he said he grew up there and turned out just fine.
“I recently met someone who graduated from Lake View high school and went to U of I. He’s living in Lakeview now and raising his kids there because he said he grew up there and turned out just fine.”
Sabrina, honest question – are you being sarcastic or serious?
I’m being completely serious. Went to Lake View High School and graduated. Went to University of Illinois for college. Lived downtown. Got married. Moved back to Lakeview and is now raising his kids there because “I grew up here and went to Lake View high school and turned out just fine.”
He’s not afraid of the schools.
‘Your kid will get into Harvard from Lincoln Park High School or New Trier if they are truly Harvard material.’
Hold up Sabrina. You mean to tell me that all the $1200 Bugaboos, Baby Einstein’s, mountains of toys, big back yards, mini van with TV’s, for profit children’s ‘museums’, baby soccer/dance/hockey/pilates, bringing along your baby to an adult restaurant, mommy and M-E, flying them all over the planet… you mean *that* child, the one that hookwinked the rest of us into becoming your village, as in ‘it takes a…’, isn’t going to Harvard??? After all that?? You my friend, are a liar!
Nope. Sadly. It’s hard to accept- I know.
According to an article in the latest Newsweek, your child needs to be fluent in another language to win in the game of “life” (specifically an Asian language- but otherwise Spanish will do.) They also need to live in another country for awhile (and not just in college as a study abroad student.)
So forget Chicago. Send your kid to live with Ze for awhile. That’s the advantage.
Oh- the article also said that only 37% of americans have passports. Only 2% of college students study abroad.
‘It’s hard to accept- I know.’
I guess I have a bad case of buyers remorse… that goes all the way back to the 80’s. See, we were told then, or rather were ‘made an offer we couldn’t refuse’ via legislation/extreme social pressure, that our most important little assists needed *massive* funding if this country was to have any chance for a brighter future; these were after all, the children of the baby boomers. Two decades later and I want my money back!
Do these CPS high schools have dedicated college counselors who have access to the admissions officers of the top colleges? I think a lot of getting into a top school has to do with the relationship of the counselors with a college’s admissions staff. For instance, Harvard had a special admissions officer for my high school. She took a sabbatical one year and no one was accepted to Harvard. Next year, she return and several kids were accepted.
Looking back though, I have to say that expensive undergrad schools just aren’t worth the money. After spending part of my formative years in Catholic school, I would definitely pay top dollar for a top private school grade/high school, but would not pay top dollar for a college.
I halfway agree with Clio – being smart makes it much more difficult to relate to people, but going to a run-of-the-mill Catholic/public school doesn’t make it easier to relate to people if you’re smart. From my experience, it was far easier for me to get along in the world when I transferred to a school where the other kids were smart.
What a scam your article is. Check north side school records and you will see drastically improving school performances back in 1999 when the shift from Naperville to Roscoe Village first started.
People stay because Walter Payton and North Side blow away New Trier or any other public suburban schools. The trend to stay in the city was well inforce before any housing bust that occured.
Who in the world would choose to live in the suburbs when you can enjoy highly reputable schools in Roscoe Village, Lakeview, and Lincoln Park? Stril Malls are very 1980’s!
And… who in the world would let their housing dictate where their children are educated? The people turning around northside schools certainly have enough money to rent their city homes and rent in a desirable suburban location (if that is your argument) if they cannot sell.
The northside schools have turned around, and out-ranked the suburban schools, simply because people with money have decided to stay downtown.
Your article is crap… no offense!
Steve – please provide statistics of Walter Payton and such blowing away New Trier.
I’m curious.
Prospect is ranked higher than New Trier. PUt that into your pipe and smoke it.
And… Sabrina, tell me why 40% of Latin kids end up in East Coast / Ivy League schools? Does it really not matter where you go to school? Check Warrenville Highschool and let me know how may Ivy League graduates their are.
Article is crap. No offense!
Jholz – see below link
http://www.suntimes.com/news/2247269-418/story.html
Steve, who do you think has a better chance of getting into a good college – the valedictorian at warrenville or the person ranked 75th at new trier?
“East Coast / Ivy League schools”
Ooooh, a school on the east coast. That does sound prestigious.
Suburbs equal big 10
Hey, Billy Dec grew up in LP went to Latin AND ended up at U of I.
Amazing how crazy stuff happens.
My only point was that the article was crap. The housing crash had nothing to do with the mentioned schools increasing test scores. Parents are responsible but only because of the general trend for urban living. A trend which started at lease 10 – 15 years ago.
While I would be very disappointed if my kid does not earn a college degree, I don’t understand this obsession with Ivy League schools. I mean there are so many happy people with great jobs who went to good but not top schools.
Is it to keep up with Joneses or you guys really think only Ivy League graduates make it in the world?!
Is there something wrong with big ten schools all of a sudden?
yes steve, and a trend that will be strengthened because of the economic realities of the financial crisis.
“And… Sabrina, tell me why 40% of Latin kids end up in East Coast / Ivy League schools? Does it really not matter where you go to school? Check Warrenville Highschool and let me know how may Ivy League graduates their are.”
NOT THIS ARGUMENT AGAIN!
Steve- you are WAY LATE to this discussion. We have had this “discussion” many, many times on this site.
If Mommy and Daddy who went to Brown are paying the $30k a year to send their kid to Latin or if Mommy and Daddy who also went to Brown and sent their kid to Warrenville who then is Valedictorian- I would say that kid has the same exact chance of getting into Brown.
Latin is pretty self-selecting. It doesn’t mean much to say 40% go to Ivy or east coast school (after all- all it takes is money to go to somewhere like Bennington and many Latin parents have plenty of that)- and many of their parents have probably gone to other prestigious schools where your odds are getting in as a legacy are high to begin with.
I know someone who went to high school in a small town in downstate Illinois. He didn’t even end up in the top 10 in his class (graduated at 13th out of 47 students.) He got into a prestige college because he had ambition, good test scores and colleges love students like him (his parents did NOT go to the ivy league or prestige colleges.)
Many top colleges would take the Warrenville high grad every single time over the 75th in their class New Trier kid.
10 years ago there was a good essay on college admissions which followed the Georgetown admissions team in their decisions. Basically, the big suburban high school kids, even though they had the brains to get in, were routinely rejected because G’town would ask, “will this student bring anything to the university?” (answer is usually “no.”) They also asked, “will this student live the same life if they went to State U or G’town?” If the answer was “yes” – then they were dinged. Aka, going to G’town wasn’t going to change that students life destiny in any way (versus going to state u.) Really a fasinating article.
“Is there something wrong with big ten schools all of a sudden?”
Nope. Some of the best schools in the country.
Hey Steve- where do the other 60% of Latin grads go to college?
Yeah- that’s what I thought.
“The people turning around northside schools certainly have enough money to rent their city homes and rent in a desirable suburban location (if that is your argument) if they cannot sell.”
Yes- all those homeowners in their 2/1s or 2/2s in Lakeview and North Center in the Burley, Blaine, Hamilton school districts have SO much money to rent out their city condos and just move to the suburbs if they so desire.
Gosh- real estate is SO easy. Nothing much to it. You just rent and move. Problem solved.
Sabrina.
I argued about your article being jaded to support your blog. Can you please show attendance records and performance for the past 10 years? We then can determine if your article is accurate or crap as I pointed out.
Both performance and attendance are up because people like urban living. I don’t thnik this will be news to many.
How is “performance” up? The article doesn’t mention that. It says attendance has risen when it has fallen in other parts of the city over the last few years.
We don’t know the cause of that.
It could be:
1. People not having enough money to put their kids into private schools in these neighborhoods.
2. People choosing to stay in the city.
3. People stuck in their condos in the city and can’t move to the suburbs so they’re raising their kids in the city now.
We don’t know since this article isn’t an academic study of the school patterns.
I’ll believe it that people are actually staying in the city to educate their children here of their own free will when dozens of kids from Blaine start attending Lake View high school. Ditto for Bell, Hamilton, Nettlehorst, Burley etc. All of those kids cannot, by definition, get into the selective high schools. Then what will happen?
All of them, most likely, will not be able to get in the private high schools either. There will be too much demand and not enough supply (if that many parents are truly staying in the city with their kids through age 14.)
We shall see in the next few years. It’ll be interesting to watch the patterns. For the future of the city- I hope they improve the high schools enough that more families want to stay.
Or… the very elem school kids will carry into the highschools and the highschools will then have higher scores as well. The trend for families to stay in the city is about 10 – 15 years old (has not yet hit highschools). Soon we will see what happens but my guess is that the highschools will begin to improve just as the elem schools improved. I could be wrong but I am just saying…
@ ” ”
If we are to use the Sun-Times article as the definitive source of rankings, then
within the top 25, the only Chicago schools that are listed selective schools.
If I live in Winnetka, my child goes to New Trier right? likewise depending on where I live in Hinsdale or Lake Forest, my child is going to the respective high school.
So I don’t think that sort of argument for a Chicago school turn-around vs. Suburban schools really works.
@ ” ” Same old same old. Make a statement / disagree with a statement. Then ask others to do the research to prove your point.
@ All
Since ” ” is back anyways, I just wanted to know.
Which trigger words bring various characters back?
which trigger words for Stevia Haliburton? or for Josephine Zeitgeist? et. al.
“Josephine Zeitgeist”
She’s been pretty open about what brings her around. Mentions of HeyNowChittown.com or anything that might be perceived as disparging a client, most particularly one named Knightsbridge or Chelsea or something like that. And, of course, mentions of her full name, more than once.
summoning visions
Fair is foul, and foul is fair: / Hover through the fog and filthy air
awesome 8ri… You just explained to me how both Alan Iverson and I could possibly have been accepted. I would love to see that essay.
Increased white-collar presence at northside public schools won’t turn around the CPS neighborhood HS inadequacies.
1) Budget Cuts: Chicago and Illinois budget face drastic cuts; neither governmental entity has seriously addressed its budget shortfall. Those resulting budget cuts will bring larger HS classroom enrollments, fewer yet supplies and equipment, less upkeep, etc. The several CPS neighborhood HSs I’ve toured were significantly less equipped (books, labs, etc) than suburban schools. Ok, so parents might fund-raise, but many of those same parents won’t financially contribute significant dollars to create a suburban-like HS physical environment.
2) Demographics: All the while some north-side neighborhood HSs may see a hypothetical increase in upper-middle class neighborhood student enrollment, the vast majority of the remaining students at those specific HSs will still be low-income, minority and/or immigrant students of non-college grad parents. I’m not arguing against diversity; I’m noting “diversity” accompanied by low parental expectations for student achievement and school performance. I know a counselor at south-side reconstituted CPS HS; she says parent attendance at report-card reviews is minimal, for instance, and parent participation/interest in individual student’s performance near non-existent.
3) Student Attitude: With low parental participation/expectations, comes lax student performance. Students may still be relatively polite and attentive in elementary school, but by HS, many CPS HS students view school as a social event rather than a disciplined academic effort. HS can seem like street theater. Kids acting out in classroom disrupt learning experience for all students. Your kid needs to be self-motivated and well-disciplined to truly thrive in that kind of environment – parents of young children often haven’t made an honest assessment yet.
4) Bad Influences: HS students are often lemmings, following trends and bad social examples, admiring or emulating kids who are poor role models. SEHS have self-sorted students to cherry-pick the high-achievers; neighborhood HSs accept all-comers, at least until students fail or are expelled. Atmosphere is far rowdier, classrooms far less disciplined, teaching process far less effective. Not every upper-middle class kid is a disciplined self-starter student who will thrive in a chaotic environment, no matter how strong the parents’ wishful thinking. Many of us thought our kids were brilliant when they were younger; wait until they’re teenagers and reality is exposed.
Parents who plan on “taking over” their local HS are admirable for their spunk, but the task is herculean. It’s hard to steer teenagers even at a well-run, well-funded HS.
100% agree with everything Architect just posted. Absolutely correct
I’ve noted NYT references many times to recruitment for Wall Street/financial services/hedge fund firms mostly limited to Ivy League caliber firms. I’m not saying there aren’t exceptions in hiring practices, just that hiring trend is overwhelmingly Ivy League-focussed. Excluding traders, of course.
Excellent grades, scores, and extra-curriculars still don’t guarantee your kid entry to a Ivy League-caliber college, even if they did attend NT, Latin/Parker, or SEHSs. Valedictiorians w/800 scores are denied admission, because so many excellent candidates have applied. Even at high-performing HSs, only one or two kids get into Harvard, though more kids there have stellar credentials, because these schools typically pick one or two kids from each HS.
Architect, FYI I’m going to cross-post your thought-provoking 6:33 comments onto the other blog I frequent since I know they will be appreciated there. Hope you don’t mind.
It’s frequently reported (as above) that parental participation in education is “minimal” among the lower socio-economic classes. But does anyone ever do a serious investigation as to the reasons why?
Are the parents intimidated by the school environment? Unable to get to meetings because of work, etc.? Maybe if schools made a concerted effort to reach the non-involved on their own “turf” – home, church, workplace – they could get some real answers and comments and work from there as to how better to “involve” paents in their kids’ schooling.
This happens in middle-class schools as well, but based on my observations it’s usually due to a small clique of adults “taking charge” of the local school council, PTA etc. and working in cahoots with the teachers and administrators to make sure that their own kids get favored treatment and their own pet concerns addressed, leaving the rest of the ‘rents to “sink or swim.”
blog = cpsobsessed.com
ChiTownGal, I don’t know about a serious study, but anecdotally I have observed or experienced that it’s due to: Holding one or more jobs that keeps the parents busy; lack of access to phones or e-mail during work hours; PTA/LSC meetings held during the school day or during their work hours; lack of childcare during evening hours if events/meetings are held then, and no childcare provided by the school; not having convenient transportation access to the faraway magnet or charter school to which the child is bussed each day; being too busy trying to manage job/children/household as a single parent or two-parent working family to spend time volunteering at the school; inability to take precious vacation time from work to attend parent-teacher conferences between noon and 5:00 pm, and then no family/spouse/childcare available to attend between 5:00 pm and 7:00 pm.
WTF with all the big 10 school bashing.
i would far rather my kid to go to a big 10 learn, socialize, and enjoy life than pressure-cooked in Harvard and stuck with triple the studnet loan debt.
i bet 80% of cribchatter came out of big 10 schools. wait thats a bad example 😉
I went to Northwestern and it was fine. I think a state school would have been just as good though. College can be what a student makes of it, which is why I don’t think going to a specific college matters so much.
I think it’s much more important to send a child to fantastic grade/high school rather than a top college.
“pressure-cooked in Harvard and stuck with triple the studnet loan debt”
At your current approx fin situation, zero debt from Harvard.
I don’t find obsessing over the schooling stuff to be odd/worthy of ridicule like some seem to, but I will point out it seems like a lot like sex, in that every generation thinks they are the first ones to discover it.
for example, re: Lake View High School – when I was that age, I knew of quite a few friends that were using a grandparent’s address in order to go Lincoln Park, we were just over the boundary and in that “bad” neighborhood known as “north of Diversey.” And does that sound ridiculous? About as ridiculous as the people obsessing over whether block X is truly “Green Zone” I’d bet this issue with LV vs LP isn’t happening much these days.
I know quite a few people like Sabrina described (more on the South Side who I knew from Iggy, I think it stayed less expensive there, housing-wise) most of you don’t know them because they/we often have pretty deep networks with family and friends and you just may not have the time to be out meeting new folks in new places. As a UIUC grad, some 40+ friends came to Chicago after graduation, so I got the best of both worlds in that sense.
LV’s biggest asset is Scott Waguespack. As long as he’s the alderman, things (infrastructure things, I consider schools in that camp) will continue improving.
and hey – Clio made a funny! Good one, actually.
“Pete, are you one of my employees?”
“At your current approx fin situation, zero debt from Harvard.”
how?
Yep – best example I use is musical virtuosity.
You can give a kid a million dollar Stradivarius, and if the little bugger never practices/is uninspired, you might as well have gotten him an entry level piece of mass-produced junk from Asia.
And furthermore, if after college you let your brain melt by vegging out to cable TV every evening, you’re going to be a dullard regardless of your degree. Learning/growing intellectually/any given skill set is a lifelong process.
“College can be what a student makes of it, which is why I don’t think going to a specific college matters so much. “
“At your current approx fin situation, zero debt from Harvard.”
“how?”
They provide a lot of grant aid. Not *completely* sure w/o checking that it would be zero debt but I think so. Would be very low (if any) parental contribution too.
So basically unless you get into a selective enrollment high school, you are forced to send your kid to a private school? I remember Lakeview HS in the movie “My Bodyguard”. If it’s anything like that today, it’s not good for students and parents. What are the other private HS options on the north side other than Parker, Latin, and Gordon Tech? I think Parket and Latin you pretty much need to go there in Elementary school and the tuition goes up for each grade in addition to the annual increases, plus there’s fundraising there too, which is pretty much required.
“They provide a lot of grant aid. Not *completely* sure w/o checking that it would be zero debt but I think so. Would be very low (if any) parental contribution too.”
whats the threshold amount? i may need to strategically plan my upward moment and avoid a senior staff position till after college
“If [Lake View HS]’s anything like [the movie My Bodyguard] today”
Yes. It’s *exactly* like that. And life in the Army is just like Stripes and air travel is exactly like Airplane.
“whats the threshold amount? i may need to strategically plan my upward moment and avoid a senior staff position till after college”
Reading v quickly, the no debt requirement as part of fin aid thing doesn’t seem to have cutoff. Parental contributions also described here.
http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do?keyword=k51861&pageid=icb.page248616
“Parental contributions also described here.”
And I’d guess the effect of income on parental contrib is pretty smooth, do no need to radically alter your career path for prospect of lil groove going to H (Y/P I think similar, and some others).
“I think Parket and Latin you pretty much need to go there in Elementary school ”
Absolutely false. The admissions at 9th grade are much more competitive, but Latin basically doubles the class size for HS and Parker adds over 50% to class size.
Others:
Lycee, which *would* be hard to step into at HS.
British School.
St. Bens, Gregory, Scholastica (girls only).
Waldorf.
Some others I’m not thinking of.
“And I’d guess the effect of income on parental contrib is pretty smooth, do no need to radically alter your career path for prospect of lil groove going to H (Y/P I think similar, and some others).”
Believe they also look at assets, so you can’t hide that way.
Know of some folks who changed custody arrangements around financial aid time so wealthy parent wouldn’t have to pay tuition. Usually involved kid getting a new car in the deal.
thanks Dz,
i may need to rethink the pushing the kid into harvard idea.
-“But, given the increasing expenses that our recent graduates face in their first years out of school and the significant loans that they will often be asked to assume to finance graduate school expenses, we have become increasingly concerned that students might be turning away from less lucrative careers and be less likely to go to graduate school later because of their loan debts”
How hard is it to get in to Latin and Parker after middle school versus a selective enrollment high school? Do they base it on test scores and essays?
What about the others? As I’ve never heard of Waldorf or Gregory are small schools overall.
Groove, I trust you read the part where it goes on to say that:
“Therefore, we are pleased to have eliminated student loans entirely from our financial aid awards, thus reducing the “self-help” component of all financial aid awards to $2,500 for freshman.”
This website gets more and more ridiculous everyday. City schools aren’t that good, Student to teacher ratio’s are high. The chance your kid gets in is tough. Last I checked people of different ethnic origins live in the suburbs. Who else is going to run your dry cleaners, dunkin donuts, 7-11, and gas stations in the burbs. Who do you think buses tables and cooks your foods at your favorite eatery. So cut me the city is more diverse crap. The city is good for when your rich kid wants to go buy drugs and build his gangsta street cred in the 40k Mercedes you bought him.
Architect… Fyi.. Almost all hedge fund managers would very proudly consider themselves traders. Soros, Rodgers, Tudor Jones, Paulson, Pickens….. And on and on.
““My Bodyguard”. If it’s anything like that today, it’s not good for students and parents. ”
jennifer beals went there… would have been good enough for me
“Believe they also look at assets, so you can’t hide that way.”
From reading the link, yeah, and while they generally exclude retirement assets they will go after them if they seem outsized.
“Know of some folks who changed custody arrangements around financial aid time so wealthy parent wouldn’t have to pay tuition. Usually involved kid getting a new car in the deal.”
Believe you, but surprises me quite a bit that this would work.
“Groove, I trust you read the part where it goes on to say that:”
yeah i really only skimmed it then went to tinkle. i saw the part where if income is 60k-180k parents only cough up 10% for ALL childern attending
“jennifer beals went there… would have been good enough for me”
And didn’t stop her from getting into yale. Oops, maybe I’m mixing movie and real life.
and the Pittsburgh Conservatory of Dance and Repertory
“Soros, Rodgers, Tudor Jones, Paulson, Pickens”
LSE, Yale/Oxford, UVa, NYU/Harvard, OkSU (Soon to be T.BooneSU)
“Believe you, but surprises me quite a bit that this would work.”
Might not work *now*, but certainly did *then*. And *then* the aid packages were generally less generous.
“and the Pittsburgh Conservatory of Dance and Repertory”
CH,
i am a bit worried that you know this much info about her off the top of your dome.
“Bad Influences: HS students are often lemmings, following trends and bad social examples, admiring or emulating kids who are poor role models.”
Bad influence comes in all forms. I know at least 10 kids I can think of from New Trier who have been in and about out of rehab over the past 20 years for serious drug issues that started in HS. With that kind of money bad influence was easy to seek out.
“It’s frequently reported (as above) that parental participation in education is “minimal” among the lower socio-economic classes. But does anyone ever do a serious investigation as to the reasons why?”
In addition to Michelle’s helpful list, those looking for serious research could do worse than Annette Lareau:
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Advantage-Intervention-Elementary-Education/dp/0742501450
Her “Unequal Childhoods” may also be useful
I’d be surprised if LVHS is like it was in My Bodyguard, which was a great movie, but a bit exaggerated. If you watch it now, it’s incredibly dated. I remember seeing that in 1980 at Lincoln Village theater, which at the time was still one big theater, not divided up into a bunch of small ones.
Some people on this thread talk about the advantages of diversity if you grow up in the city. But it’s possible to grow up in the city with very little diversity.
Look at me. I was born and raised in East Lake View, and I attended Francis Parker from JK through 12th grade. There were very few ethnic kids there at the time, unless you count Jewish being ethnic! And although there were a lot of Hispanics living west of Halsted near Wrigley Field, we didn’t venture over there too much for fear of getting mugged. The neighborhood has changed a bit since then, obviously.
tudor was harvard grad also. He quit, found it worthless.
I think people on CC underestimate the college placement machine at top private schools. My wife went to a boarding school in New England that placed approximately 5% of her graduating class at Harvard (including her). Starting in 9th grade the counselors were targeting their activities and classes to give them the highest probability of attending a top college. There are approx 21.5k high schools in the US so 21.5k valedictorians every year. There are approx 16k spots at Ivy League schools. Therefore every valedictorian won’t be able to get into an Ivy. My personal experience is graduating top 5% in my mediocre Catholic school and getting into an Ivy while my town’s public school (5 times the size) had only their valedictorian get into an Ivy. I was told to apply for engineering programs at Ivies because they had higher acceptance rates than the Arts&Sciences. My friends at the public school were amazed I got in. I’m guessing the ratio of guidance counselors to students is much much higher at private schools and top public schools.
“I was born and raised in East Lake View, and I attended Francis Parker from JK through 12th grade. There were very few ethnic kids there at the time, unless you count Jewish being ethnic!”
But there’s j beals! CH must be so jealous of you.
Also, skeptic, I hope you’ve started a google bombing campaign. Searching for lake view high school suggests lakeview, but not vice versa.
“i am a bit worried that you know this much info about her off the top of your dome.”
she is biracial
I did go to school with J. Beals and Darryl Hannah and Jeremy Sisto, among others. I never got into the acting thing, myself.
I am kind of jealous. though looks like j beals is a handful of years older than me and we not have been in the same classrooms.
ha ha – yeah, I know I can’t turn back the clock, but I do take solace in the Sun Times, which uses Lake View IMO properly. So do a variety of the older neighborhood associations, the Booster used to, etc. I’m just an old stick in the mud, I know. : )
I’ll tell ya, I’d settle for what the mythical “neighborhood” of Lakeview boundaries are. There is no arguing that the community area is Lake View.
“Also, skeptic, I hope you’ve started a google bombing campaign. Searching for lake view high school suggests lakeview, but not vice versa.”
“Mayor Rahm Emanuel and his wife have decided to forgo Chicago public schools and send their children to the University of Chicago Lab School in Hyde Park this fall, CBS Channel 2 is reporting.”
Anyone know what their CPS school is (not magnet, charter, etc.)?
can someone explain what are magnet and charter schools?
Anyone see the Trib report today that Rahm’s kids are going to U of C Lab school? IMO, that’s a pretty big FU to CPS. And secondly, it really makes Lab school’s admission policy look like pay-to-play/influence peddling. Not that I expected anything different, I suppose…
I have been litely following this site for several months now and I have never read/seen any references to Lasalle Language Academy. I graduated from there in mid-80’s. Is that still considered a good school?? Is it hard to get in?
Yes. It’s even been ‘replicated’ to displace Andersen in WP:
http://www.lasalle2school.com/index.html
@whatthewhat:
Techincally, I believe his neighborhood school would be Ravenswood, but he’s most associated with Coonley, a school to which he’s contributed a great deal, financially and otherwise
“Anyone know what their CPS school is ”
w/o checking, think it’s Ravenswood.
And, after checking, confirmed.
“IMO, that’s a pretty big FU to CPS.”
Look, the kids all went to Anshe before, if the eldest had gotten into NSCP/Payton/Young everyone would be bitching about that, too. It has everything to do with the kids and almost nothing to do with making Rahm’s political life easier–and there is *zero* chance that they would have been going to Ravenswood and LVHS, anyway, so how is it any commentary on CPS?
“It has everything to do with the kids and almost nothing to do with making Rahm’s political life easier–and there is *zero* chance that they would have been going to Ravenswood and LVHS, anyway, so how is it any commentary on CPS?”
You mean the fact that there is zero chance they would go to Ravenswood or LVHS says nothing about the CPS? And you are right: I would be bitching had they gon to Payton or Young. But that really doesn’t change the point: CPS isn’t good enough for the mayor’s kids. I get it, I really do. The rich, powerful and connected will fight for their kid’s future just as I do, but with more success. But it is still a serious comment on the state of CPS that it probably wasn’t even considered for Rahm’s kids.
And, of course, I’m referring to non-magnet programs. On further consideration, it would probably look even worse had his kids got into a publicly affiliated magnet program.
It’s funny. I read that 40% of CPS teachers send their kids to private schools. That really doesn’t speak well for CPS.
I don’t have any problem with Rahm sending his kids to U of C lab school, he’s got the money & it beats blowing it at the track or on a yacht or other mid-life crisis purchase.
Anyway, if he went public, people would be griping that his kids’ school would be getting preferential treatment, so he’s in a lose-lose position.
I think his success re: CPS should be measured system-wide.
“I have never read/seen any references to Lasalle Language Academy.”
Know casually one regular upper middle class family with kid there and they are pretty content.
“It has everything to do with the kids and almost nothing to do with making Rahm’s political life easier–and there is *zero* chance that they would have been going to Ravenswood and LVHS, anyway, so how is it any commentary on CPS?”
Not a comment that he’s going to allow CPS to go to hell, but is a comment that his neighborhood schools suck. Would anyone make a different decision (to avoid CPS, not the picking Lab part necessarily)? I’d think less of him if he sacrificed his kids’ education for political considerations.
“Not a comment that he’s going to allow CPS to go to hell, but is a comment that his neighborhood schools suck. Would anyone make a different decision (to avoid CPS, not the picking Lab part necessarily)? I’d think less of him if he sacrificed his kids’ education for political considerations.”
That’s what I meant to say, really. He’s doing “the right thing” by his family, but it is shameful that his neighborhood school holds up so poorly to private options that it isn’t even on the table.
@Steve Heitman
Big Ten = Northwestern and Michigan. Both great schools.
“CPS isn’t good enough for the mayor’s kids.”
No, CPS is plenty good enough, but the schools that *Are* good enough would have you bitching just the same.
Here’s the question–if you lived next door to Rahm, and had similar financial assets, would you send your kids to Ravenswood and LVHS, without even applying to magnet/SEES/SEHS, or not?
Since you’d complain if they went to schools they could (presumably) test into, or if they did what they did, you’re basically saying that whoever is mayor of Chicago should put BS political considerations ahead of their family. Which is beyond absurd.
“it is shameful that his neighborhood school holds up so poorly to private options that it isn’t even on the table.”
Shameful? Really? There are *plenty* of people who think that the *best* public schools hold up poorly to private options. Private schools can do all sorts of things that aren’t possible in any public school, nevermind an attendance area school.
If there were a hebrew HS in Chicago and he chose to send his younger kids back to Anshe and the eldest to that HS, would you similarly complain? Please to explain why there would be a distinction.
My kids already go to Lincoln. It’s already way too crowded if you ask me. They’ll need to start thinking about opening up other schools to becoming neighborhood schools again (LaSalle and Newberry). I live closer to LaSalle, but like most I know, did not get in. I think Lincoln’s a better school, honestly, so I wasn’t exactly disappointed. But convenience means a lot!
I don’t know what’s going to happen, but at some point they’re going to HAVE to relieve the situation at Lincoln — especially with the new homes going up in the near future with LP hospital and Children’s conversions.
Maybe Lincoln needs to take some of that Children’s property and build a junior high … or something!
BTW, we moved into the district because of Lincoln and never planned on leaving for the ‘burbs. Thank goodness, as our property would lose us money now! : )
Some people just prefer private schools. I know people who went to NSCDS and lived in Wilmette. The parents just didn’t like the idea of public school. I don’t really care for the idea of public school either even if it’s the very top public school in the country.
If I had a kid, I would probably send them to an ultra liberal school, like this: http://csop.us/mission.html
I’m still surprised that, given Rahm’s financial assets, he’s willing to live where he does. (Yes, yes, I know it’s a very nice area, but he’s a bit better-heeled than the typical law firm partner, physician, managing director or random executive type.)
Given the location of his office and the the commute to school on the south side, perhaps they’ll relocate to the SL or Hyde Park.
“I’m still surprised that, given Rahm’s financial assets, he’s willing to live where he does.”
Yeah, and I’m still surprised that given your disdain for midwesterners, you’re willing to live in the central time zone.
ftr, no problem with Rahm sending his kids where ever, or even homeschooling if he feels like it. what counts is what he does to improve the larger system.
On the surface it seems like an FU to CPS, but I get why he is sending them there. However, I would have understood it a lot more if it was Anshe for the younger ones, purely for the religious reasons. I would get that he wants a religious education and know there is no private option for HS.
Still in all, it’s a pretty big slap in the face to CPS since part of his platform was education reform. Loves to talk about it, but doesn’t want his kids to be part of it. He lives up the block from me and there are a decent number of kids that go to UofC Lab around here, so perhaps my neighbors can get in on his carpool.
“Big Ten = Northwestern and Michigan. Both great schools.”
NotClio, you certainly are NOT me, otherwise you wouldn’t be spouting such nonsense!!
@Miumiu – there are several types of school in CPS.
Neighborhood – if you live in the boundary, you can go there. No matter what. If the school isn’t full they might accept kids from other areas, who apply via lottery each winter.
Magnet – a school focused more on one area (language, arts, science etc), places in these schools are also allocated via lottery each winter.
Charter – a school privately run using public money, they have to follow CPS guidelines but can set most of their own rules. Each school has it’s own admission policy.
Classical/Gifted – also known as selective enrollment, kids must test into these schools during the winter, only once though. Once theyre in, thats it. Classical is just teaching at advanced pace, gifted is more logic based.
My “disdain for midwesterners”? I married one. Heck, I am one – I got admitted to the bar here and purchased a home here (not exactly hallmarks of temporary living). But I’m nonetheless puzzled that so many here would practically sell their first born just to acquire the almighty $1 million SFH on the north side of the city, a mile or two west of the lake. That’s all.
As for Rahm’s kids – I think it’s going to be a lot easier on his security detail, and his kids who will be surrounded by other kids living in similar situations.
Surely it’s better that he doesn’t disrupt his local CPS school or their budget. And at the end of the day, that’s three less kids squeezed into whatever classroom they would have been in. What’s the problem?
Thanks Jennifer. So I assume classical/gifted is the first choice, then perhaps magnet (for me science) and then depending on the area, charter or neighborhood right?
“It’s funny. I read that 40% of CPS teachers send their kids to private schools. That really doesn’t speak well for CPS.”
I don’t know Jenny most urologist and urogynecologist will tell their wives to get a c-section as they think most natural birth results in incontinence. It is their profession that biases them to think that way while here is no or little evidence that this in fact is the case. I bet a similar thing holds for CPS teachers.
“so many here would practically sell their first born”
This believe is based on … what?
And besides, it’s clear to me that it’s just that no one wants to risk running into Heitman regularly.
“Surely it’s better that he doesn’t disrupt his local CPS school”
That was never going to happen. They would have gotten into SE schools and then Rahm would have to face the “did you clout them in” question which is unfair to the kids.
“No, CPS is plenty good enough, but the schools that *Are* good enough would have you bitching just the same.
Here’s the question–if you lived next door to Rahm, and had similar financial assets, would you send your kids to Ravenswood and LVHS, without even applying to magnet/SEES/SEHS, or not?
Since you’d complain if they went to schools they could (presumably) test into, or if they did what they did, you’re basically saying that whoever is mayor of Chicago should put BS political considerations ahead of their family. Which is beyond absurd.”
You’re looking for a fight, eh? I say that because you are clearly characterizing what I’m trying to say.
The reason I’d care if they got into magnet schools in the CPS that *are* as good as private schools is because they’d have to end-around the process that the rest of us go through. The CPS admission system is so broken that even if kids have crazy good test scores, it doesn’t come close to guaranteeing a spot. Therefore, if all of Rahm’s kids got in, it would clearly be due to political or personal influence.
In that regard, I have less of a problem with him sending his kids to a private school: he can’t just “send them” to a magnet school without pulling politically sensitive strings or gaming the system and pissing off a ton of people. He can get away with that in a private school.
But none of this changes the fact that the average CPS school experience is abysmal and likely wasn’t even on Rahm’s radar when choosing. Yes, there are good CPS schools, but with very few exceptions, they are all tremendously difficult to get into and aren’t something any Chicagoan can really rely on. Defend the system if you will, but this choice by our mayor clearly highlights that fact.
That was supposed to be “mis-characterizing”.
“so many here would practically sell their first born”
Ze wanted to eat his if it were a boy. Luckily was a girl. So this is not that bad ; )
Hi Miu, yes I think that is the usual preference order.
Of course the best course of action is to simply live in the right neighborhood and get one of the top scoring schools that way, but if you’re priced out of that option then it’s testing/lottery time.
Having attended private schools but having taught in CPS, I agree.
It’s not just the quality of the education, it’s that at a private school everybody you need to talk to/know is all right there, in one building.
So I am sending my kid to Hamilton – I get an email from the principal a week ago asking me to confirm, as the “system” indicated I had enrolled my kid at Logandale.
Problem 1: I did no such thing.
Problem 2: Logandale is a MIDDLE school. My kid is going to kindergarten!
Now I lucked out that this is a really sharp fella who is paying attention to these details (which is what sold us in no small part), but WTF is wrong with CPS that could possibly explain this?
Well, I know – it’s a large system filled with people doing their best, but who are also completely removed from any interaction with your specific kid (and teacher and school).
There’s no way around that, it’s what comes with having the responsibility to educate 400,000 people. So we’ll deal as bets we can, but you better believe that this is exactly the kind of red tape/bureaucracy that I wanted to avoid, and why I left CPS many years ago.
“Some people just prefer private schools. I know people who went to NSCDS and lived in Wilmette. The parents just didn’t like the idea of public school. I don’t really care for the idea of public school either even if it’s the very top public school in the country.”
Isn’t it possible that CPS teachers are putting their kids in private schools because they need before/after school care that a lot of CPS schools don’t provide?
is this really a discussion?
if i had the money and the clout, you better believe my kids will be at the best school possible. is it even worth questioning?
his job is to Fix the schools not use his kids as guinea pigs to fix the CPS.
“Defend the system if you will, but this choice by our mayor clearly highlights that fact.”
yes comparing ravenswood elm (or conley) to a 25k a year private school *run by one of the USA’s top higher education intuitions is the most valid way of making an objective opinion.
even when ravenswood elm answers to a group collective that encompasses all of chicagos schools to Lab who answers to well just Lab
Can the public school system ever really be fixed without fixing the ills of the lower middle class? As long as there is poverty and a culture of low expectations, will your average non-greenzone hood ever have quality schools?
but thousands of years of history dictate we will always have poverty and people with low expectations. Rather spend my time surfin than solvin the unsolvable.
“Isn’t it possible that CPS teachers are putting their kids in private schools because they need before/after school care that a lot of CPS schools don’t provide?”
I looked up the numbers. FWIW it’s a little dated, based on 2000 census data.
“his job is to Fix the schools not use his kids as guinea pigs to fix the CPS.”
No it’s not, Groove, it’s to placate UMC northsiders unhappy with CPS. Which can only be done if his kids go to Ravenswood and LVHS. Anything less means he doesn’t believe that things have magically improved because of his mere presence.
“Anything less means he doesn’t believe that things have magically improved because of his mere presence.”
wait, he has been in office for 3 months now and LVHS has not improved yet? Impeach the lazy bastard
“wait, he has been in office for 3 months now and LVHS has not improved yet? Impeach the lazy bastard”
I’ve heard that he’s actually made it *worse* in the last 5 weeks!!
It does seem that he got rid of the idiotic two parking spaces, and double lane shift, in front of the Rizal Center on IPR, so I can count one good thing that’s happened since inauguration.
So much for the kids – what’s his WIFE going to do while they are in school? Most first ladies (local and national) pick a “cause” or two to support; haven’t heard anything yet from Mrs. E.
“what’s his WIFE going to do while they are in school? Most first ladies (local and national) pick a “cause” or two to support; haven’t heard anything yet from Mrs. E.”
Almost undoubtedly something that many, many people on the intertubez will find hypocritical or otherwise distasteful and a basis to “regret” supporting Rahm.
“I’ve heard that he’s actually made it *worse* in the last 5 weeks!!”
that was one on his check list he posted online.
maybe she can be like Betty Ford and pick alcohol.
maybe she can be like Betty Ford and pick alcohol. Would be awesome having a first lady like the women from absolutely fabulous.
“maybe she can be like Betty Ford and pick alcohol. Would be awesome having a first lady like the women from absolutely fabulous.”
IDK is it too soon?
So…in order to not be an indictment of the system (or an FU! to it), his neighborhood school would have to be superior and preferable to Lab School? Who knew the crowd here had such faith in the potential of publicly-funded education!
Ummm, maybe we should all move to Finland?
p.s. to Ze: wow.
seriosly roma… Berlusconi, Putin, Sarkozy… Sarkozy droped his wife for his mistress almost the day he took office and no one blinked. I want someone like JFK hittin Monroe in the Lincoln room. F’n up the country so bad, might as well entertain me.
“I want someone like JFK hittin Monroe in the Lincoln room. F’n up the country so bad, might as well entertain me.”
Not really in the cards in 2012. Entertaining perhaps, but nothing like that among the contenders.
“Sarkozy droped his wife for his mistress almost the day he took office and no one blinked.”
It was the wife who dropped him for her lover Ze.
seriosly roma… Berlusconi, Putin, Sarkozy… I’d vote for any of the 3. Sarkozy droped his wife for his mistress almost the day he took office and no one blinked. I want someone like JFK hittin Monroe in the Lincoln room. F’n up the country so bad, might as well entertain me.
Ze how do you like Michelle for 2012?
“better he should have a mistress. if he’s not doin it to her than he’s doin it to the country!”
-The 2000 year old man
(or something like that)
Of course, Berlusconi seems to have done it to any and all, including himself
“So…in order to not be an indictment of the system (or an FU! to it), his neighborhood school would have to be superior and preferable to Lab School? Who knew the crowd here had such faith in the potential of publicly-funded education!”
What? Where do you people get this stuff?
As I pointed out, the fact that he isn’t trying to get his kids into a magnet program is hardly surprising. It’s a total crap shoot whether you get in and if you have the money and clout, why not put your kids into a private school where you can practically guarantee a spot. My problems:
1) The fact that we have a tiered public school system where getting into a school that even approaches a private school in even the most modest of criteria is a complete crap shoot.
2) The fact that the non-magnet CPS schools above K-8 are complete crap.
3) The fact that those of us without Rahm’s resources have little recourse outside of moving to a suburb or a more well-run city.
Rahm has every right and even a responsibility to put his kids where they will do the best. But the rest of us have a right and even a responsibility to try to change the fact that our public schools are just terrible. That our tax money is pouring into schools that aren’t even remotely worthy of the mayors kids is clearly going to piss a lot of us stuck in worse situations off.
Is that really surprising?
“That our tax money is pouring into schools that aren’t even remotely worthy of the mayors kids is clearly going to piss a lot of us stuck in worse situations off.”
But that would all be okay had Rahm sent his kids to Ravenswood/LVHS? If he sacrificed his kids to ease his political position, you’d feel differently? Or you’d still criticize him for the choice, just from a different direction?
I just don’t see why the choice they made for their kids affects how one feels about CPS–whatever they chose to do, the system would still be largely broken.
I don’t think Tft is saying Rahm’s decision causally affects how he/she feels, anon, but rather is a vivid demonstration of other, diff’t causes of his/her discomfort.
It does seem, Tft, though, the essence of your complaint that entrance into a super-elite public school is a “crap-shoot” (i.e. random and unpredictable) while entrance into a super-elite private school can be predictably bought by money and power?
Meanwhile, you want the non super-elite public school to be worthy of comparison to Lab School?
At the same time, you’re concerned about the tax money pouring into schools so I assume you’re not ready to fork over the cash that would be required to provide that level of education to everyone (in a hypothetical scenario where that were possible)?
“I don’t think Tft is saying Rahm’s decision causally affects how he/she feels, anon, but rather is a vivid demonstration of other, diff’t causes of his/her discomfort.”
Maybe, but it started with this from TFT:
“Rahm’s kids are going to U of C Lab school? IMO, that’s a pretty big FU to CPS.”
I don’t think one (kids going to Lab) has anything to do with the other (Rahm’s attitude toward CPS).
Frankly, taking them *out* of the pool of kids competing for NSCP (where at least 2 of their cousins have gone) means that there are more seats for kids who *can’t* afford the freight at Lab.
mm..if she wins half the countries head would explode. Politics are a 0 here. I like it that way.
Roma.. Always a kick outta Mel –
btw are you italian italy gellati italiano, or your basic american cannoli and veal parmagiana hero eatin italian?
Great city too. Wife finds it a bit dark but i love.
The Lab School was a great place to go to school. I was exposed to all types of people: the wealthy, the affluent, the old money rich, the nouveau riche, the well-to-do – quite a variety of people there!!!
i just don’t understand. I drive past a montessori down in central america and all i can think is what an awesome place to move for 2 years and send your 4-6 yr old kid to school. Would naturally pick up another language, be chill the way you should allow a kid to be…. Super healthy and out playin in a beautiful place. You could have books and puzzles and everything you need. I know it’s not a reality but it’s crazy how i see some of my friends with their kids. So much stress later, why inflict it on a 6 yr old.
I love both great gelato and a great veal parm, but this is real estate blog, remember?
vimeo.com/3082491
Speaking of which, Ze, they say it was so hot in Chicago today, people were walking up to cops on the street begging to be shot!
ok i didnt want to post outside of work, but geeeeeezeeee TftinChi,
your beef is not with the ramfather, or where he sent his kids. the guy ran on a campaign too improve the schools. you could even avoid the stupid commercial of him saying some cheesy line about kids walking without a thought in their eyes.
his whole schtick while running was schools and unions from the get go.
and people voted him in on the promise to fix schools he cant do it in one year or even two so in that time you expect him to have his kids suffer.
its not a FU to CPS its a wake up call that what he was saying during elections is true CPS needs fixing.
so its not even an issue where he sends his kids.
the issue is YOU. for the love of what ever you pray to please dont expect a private school equal that is fair and understandable within a large group collective funded by tax dollars made to please the average amongst the large many
ok back to jumping on t couch with my son .
peace and outie 5000
roma you would be proud of me. Making my own ricotta right now. Shaped it like a SFH just so I can mention that and any apparent deviation from a real estate blog can no longer cause this superfluous comment to be deleted.
Here, over 40 degrees, no one works, just go to the beach . Problem being we get 6 months over 40 degrees.
“Problem being we get 6 months over 40 degrees.”
We get 6 months over 40 degrees here in Chi-town too–guess we’re just more industrious. 😀
“Speaking of which, Ze, they say it was so hot in Chicago today, people were walking up to cops on the street begging to be shot!”
lol…I am one of those. Had to take Deux Deux for a walk as he was not sleeping.
I love Chicago but man the humid days of summer suck pretty bad sometimes. I feel sorry for some of the poor furry cute dogs out there.
The discussion about the Mayor putting his children in private school is not that different from when Bill and Hillary moved to DC. They basically wanted to put Chelsea into the public school near the White House- as he ran on being a man of the people etc. – but it was so bad- they felt they couldn’t do it and chose Sidwell Friends instead.
They talked with Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter, who sent Amy to the neighborhood school out of principle, and they apparently told the Clintons NOT to do it. So when the Clintons chose private- there was an uproar for a few days but then it went away.
The DC schools still stink and it’s 20 years later.
The article was crap and I rest my case.
Awwwww….the Carters and the Clintons coming into a clash with reality regarding their progeny. Methinks most whitebread urbanites are likely of similar ideological cloth and equally clueless–complete buffoons.
You can they went to mostly all or white schools themselves because they would know that with CPS being 7% white your kid is going to get picked on or at the very least not fit in. Architect hit the nail pretty good on the head, and even if your kid isn’t the one causing the disruptions, those that are provide _great cover_ for slackers to basically not do shit in school.
And there are a lot of kids that are borderline slackers, especially from homes where they’ve never experienced real poverty (there’s a reason the immigrants of all backgrounds generally work so hard around town here, do an excellent job and never complain) and have an Xbox and all the trappings and distractions of modern 2nd generation+ Americans.
Funnily enough this is actually net very bearish for city RE values, even SFHs. I can get a nice 2/1.5 condo in Wilmette near the Purple line for 225k and you mean to tell me there are still enough whitebreads who never plan on having kids willing to live near Trader Todd’s and Big City on Sheffield and pay 300k+? Well I guess they never _plan_ on having kids because that is the big mystery when the stork shows up, right?
There is a total disconnect between life stages for these whitebreads buying properties in the city who aren’t of good monetary means (ie: 140k+ HHI/year).
*I don’t mean the whitebread as any sort of racial thing just as a label for those who dress, act, and think a certain way, (the majority happen to be a certain pigment but it could be anyone)…the SWPL way I suppose.
“Starting in 9th grade the counselors were targeting their activities and classes to give them the highest probability of attending a top college. ”
So basically you had to change who you were or what you enjoyed doing to fit into some narrative to maximize your chances of getting into an Ivy?
Sounds like you wasted your youth to me. Sounds like your parents really fucked up on parenting, too if you had this idea that gaining admission to an Ivy was so important from age 14. No wonder so many of these kids off themselves if they don’t get accepted and their life doesn’t go according to plan.
Getting to where you want to be in life is a marathon not a sprint. And jesus very few have it figured out at 18, or even 14. Sounds to me like these kids have the entire notion of happiness confused: it’s suppose to be what makes _you happy_ not your parents. And if making your parents happy is what makes you happy you’re too much of a robot or too stupid to see the forest from the tree.
Searching seems to be the only parent who is realistic about their situation and doing what’s best for their kids.
Trying to get your kids to tough it out in a CPS is forcing your kids to be the urban pioneers, something most whitebreads themselves didn’t dare take part of when these northside ‘hoods started to change 10-30 years ago.
Betty Ford had class, dignity and decency in her lifetime (she had a problem and DID SOMETHING ABOUT IT), unlike some posters here who probably can’t even define, let alone admire, such concepts.
If Mrs. E decides to “take up alcohol(ism and its remedies)” as a focal point of her First Ladydom, she’ll serve her city well.
i agree with bob.. Even on my sliiping on the 40 degrees… Celcius amigo. Funny part is 40 percent of these kids will grow up resenting their parents for doing that to them. I still do.
Chitowngrl.. Of course i know that she did something about it.. Billy Joel even wrote a song about it…. It goes…’a bottle of red…a bottle of white’
and Bri.. You have to really hate your kids to have sent them to a DC public school in the 80’s. Wow. In DC I had a light colored very attractive friend who told me she used to cry every day to not go to school because she would get beaten up between every class by the darker girls. Wondeful public schools up in Bethesda/Chevy Chase/Potomac though.
I guess some people have to turn EVERYTHING – even someone else’s affliction/heroism – into a “joke.” Even – especially? – when the object of their “humor” is no longer around to talk back.
Have a nice funeral! You know, what goes around comes around…
@ ChiTownGal, I agree with most of what you post, but not sure alcoholism even fighting it is heroism. Unless of course I am misunderstanding you. Also nothing wrong with having a sense of humor. Sometimes it is the only thing that gets one going when things are really grim.
Someone earlier was rationalizing why many CPS parents are AWOL concerning their kids’ performance at school, listing “no babysitter”, “no transportation”, and other lame excuses.
Many of AWOL parents are generally AWOL in parenting efforts. Many CPS students’ dads are absent, not involved whatsover in parenting. Many of their moms are neglectful parents too. Many grandparents are raising CPS kids, or CPS kids are raising themselves. Many CPS parents aren’t “involved” with their kids, have no parental “control” over them, and don’t have any educational expectations for them. Non-SEHS CPS teachers face an apathetic bunch of CPS teenagers and equally apathetic parents nonetheless antagonistic towards administration and teachers.
“Self-esteem empowerment” diversity policies espoused by CPS also failed. Drive North Avenue/Chicago Avenue back and forth from Oak Park, and see the young men, all likely “parents”, pants below their butts, hanging-out at street corners, babies wandering about, and lose all hope for CPS’ drop-outs’ futures.
i’m going to have clowns and a ferris wheel at my funeral. Maybe a good band too. Definetly will be serving kick ass food.
I hope people truly enjoy it and remember my life was about being happy and laughing.
“efinetly will be serving kick ass food.”
Where are you planning to hold the event? Please let us know ; )
oh in Rio… It’s the when i have no idea of, going to have dancers and samba… Why not. It should be a celebration of what was. No rush to get there but I love the concept of death, I remind myself of it in the 1st 15 minutes of every day. Very life affirming.
I will make sure to dance assuming you’ll go before me. One never knows…hehe
ze the misses and I are looking for a fun honeymoon spot, think you could arrange a beta test of that funeral around mid-Oct?
BTW: are you and chitowngal feuding?
I’ve been poking through some of the CPS report card and test data, and it looks to me like there are schools with mixed SES enrollment that don’t really drag down the top performing students and there are those that do. It’s going to take some really heavy number crunching to verify that though.
@Architect, RE: http://cribchatter.com/?p=11024#comment-171925 (6:33AM)
Any given student may be positively or negatively influenced by the teachers and administration as well as by the student population. If “turn around” is relaxed to mean reduce the negative influences a school or its student population have on their children and increase the positive influences, maybe we can tolerate quite a few low achievers sucking the averages down to embarrassing levels.
Ze- Bill Clinton was in office in the 1990s. And, from what I’ve heard from friends who live in the District today, not much has changed with the public schools.
“Any given student may be positively or negatively influenced by the teachers and administration as well as by the student population. If “turn around” is relaxed to mean reduce the negative influences a school or its student population have on their children and increase the positive influences, maybe we can tolerate quite a few low achievers sucking the averages down to embarrassing levels.”
Jeremy:
CPS could turn around in such a way that Chicago property taxes are cut in half and every kid has perfect SATs and there isn’t a single “bad influence” in any school, and you wouldn’t change Architect’s mind til it stuck for at least a decade.
anon (tfo): do you have kids? teenagers?
“anon (tfo): do you have kids? teenagers?”
Yes I have kids, no they aren’t teenagers now, yes CPS, and yes, I DO think you are so negative about CPS that a miracle (that I know isn’t coming in any fashion) would just make you grump even more. You aren’t necessarily “wrong”, but I think that your negativity is out of proportion with reality.
“I’ve been poking through some of the CPS report card and test data, and it looks to me like there are schools with mixed SES enrollment…”
There are very, very few CPS schools that have “mixed SES enrollment”, depending on your definition of that phrase.
anon what impact do you think recently listings like MLS 07863154 will have on _your valuation_?
Also funny that you think the schools are magically going to turn around. You’ll be paying for middle or HS, I can almost guarantee that.
Nope. Anon’s kids will get into a selective enrollment or Lincoln Park honors program orsomething like that.
My mother grew up on the northwest side of Chicago and she went to private Catholic elementary school. They moved to the suburbs in 1961 because even back then, everyone knew that CPS had terrible schools.
The woman who cleans my office is the same age as me, and has three children with two different men, is not married, is on public aid, and receives no child support from at least one of her baby daddies because he is incarcerated. All three of her children attend CPS public schools.
I have one child and it is highly unlikely that my child will attend CPS.
My child will likely attend the same private elementary school as her grandmother. I didn’t plan it that way, it’s just that 50 years after my mother moved from Irving Park to the northwest suburbs, CPS STILL SUCKS.
CPS is not just one thing. It’s like saying you would never live in Chicago because you would never live in Roseland or Austin. Chicago has some great schools and a lot is sucky ones.
I’m surprised a lawyer would be using such faulty logic.
Are yousaying if your kid got a spot at Bell or Newberry you would turn it down because your cleaning lady has kids in the same massive system?
What is wrong with seating in the same class as cleaning ladies kids. Some of the smartest people in my undergrad were from very poor families. Actually one of my smartest colleague’s mom was an immigrant Serbian who was a cleaning lady in Germany.
I don’t know much about K-12 here, but if it is anything like college, the main problem is the huge ego of the parents and some idiotic notion that all kids are above average and so on. Classes are catered to the lowest common denominator. Instead of judging performance of faculty say by how well students will do in subsequent classes for which the current course is a prerequisite, they are evaluated by students who don’t like hard test or serious profs. It is ok to be engaged in some fraternity BS activity and miss exams and ask for them to get rescheduled. In my undergrad if you’d go to a prof. and made such a request he’d throw you out of his class.
Also this notion of student privacy and keeping grades and all secret makes no sense to me. I think some shame can do no harm.
sorry sitting
I don’t live in Roseland nor do I live in Lincoln Park. both are extreme examples of poverty and wealth, bad schools and good schools.
Try looking somewhere in the middle like the NW side I mentioned above, where both my cleaning lady and I live. The middle has, as you say, “a lot of sucky ones.” Which is why the masses go private or leave altogether
“#dahliachi on July 23rd, 2011 at 4:58 pm
CPS is not just one thing. It’s like saying you would never live in Chicago because you would never live in Roseland or Austin. Chicago has some great schools and a lot is sucky ones.
I’m surprised a lawyer would be using such faulty logic.”
I wonder what the illegitimacy rate is for CPS students? Probably, around 50% is my guess.
“Someone earlier was rationalizing why many CPS parents are AWOL concerning their kids’ performance at school, listing “no babysitter”, “no transportation”, and other lame excuses.
Many of AWOL parents are generally AWOL in parenting efforts. Many CPS students’ dads are absent, not involved whatsover in parenting. Many of their moms are neglectful parents too. Many grandparents are raising CPS kids, or CPS kids are raising themselves.”
PS I heard a rumor that the Archdiocese is going to purchase Gordon Tech, and turn it into a college prep, as there is a huge need and hole to fill in between LA and Ignatius.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903554904576461571362279948.html
Oh yeah and Lincoln Park is only an example of “extreme wealth” insofar as midwestern standards and comps are applied. It’s po-dunk compared to most areas on the coasts.
The fact that you think LP is so far and mighty and lofty is proof you don’t travel much. And the people that live there that think similarly don’t travel much either. Look at anonny for a good example of the LP obsessed.
“Also this notion of student privacy and keeping grades and all secret makes no sense to me. I think some shame can do no harm.”
I’ve never heard about this except in b-school at top schools. It serves a purpose there insofar as the recruiters should really be evaluating candidates based on their past career, personality and what they bring to the table to that co. and not their grades, which are largely irrelevant by the time you’re past your mid-20s.
It can go too far I agree: for instance George W. Bush got into Harvard Business School during a time period they waived the GMAT requirement, I’ve read.
But hiding grades from recruiters in b-school I don’t think is a bad thing overall. These are people who have already done something with their lives. It’s not like law/medicine/etc where you’ve never actually had to pull your own weight yet.
so Bob… An employer should be interested in performance information about everything you have done, but not on what it is you are currently doing? You went to gain new skills, shouldn’t they want to see how well you gained them, or performed amongst peers?
I live in a neighborhood with a bad school and my kid goes to a great school.
Many of my friends have not great neighborhood schools and their kids go to magnets or Gifted. If you love your family Catholic school and want continue tradition, that’s great.
But making it seem like that is your only choice is absurd.
“so Bob… An employer should be interested in performance information about everything you have done, but not on what it is you are currently doing? You went to gain new skills, shouldn’t they want to see how well you gained them, or performed amongst peers?”
Why bother with grades then? Why even bother with the two year vacation–get admitted, write a check for $75k, be certifed as an “mba” and interview.
“But making it seem like that is your only choice is absurd.”
He’s not to “play the game” because CPS isn’t good enough for the Mayor’s kids.
Even tho it was good enough for his niece the Rhodes Scholar and his niece at Yale.
Bob–“what impact do you think recently listings like MLS 07863154 will have on _your valuation”
about as much as any other moldy, rat infested REO that’s not particularly close to my house would–that is, not none, but not much.
If it were next door to me, I’d be THRILLED, because then I’d have my double lot. Were it down the block, I’d still be pretty happy, as I’d have my outdoor space, but not right outside my door. Of course, were it on my block, someone else would almost cerainly outbid me. As it is, that’s a bidding pricd, not a wishing price. I’ll be surprised if it doesnt top $250, even located in Jahn attendance area.