The 3-Bedroom Historic Shepherd’s Cottage in Bucktown: 2233 W. Homer
This 3-bedroom Shepherd’s Cottage at 2233 W. Homer in Bucktown just came on the market.
Built in 1878, the brick single family home is part of a group of Shepherd’s Cottages on this street.
While the house has some of its vintage features it also sports a newer kitchen and baths.
The kitchen has white cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
All 3 bedrooms are on the second floor.
The master bedroom, which was an addition, has a fireplace and built-in bookcases.
It also has a marble master bathroom with a skylight and a walk-in closet.
There is a first floor den off the kitchen and an unfinished basement.
Built on a 24×100 lot, the house has central air, a 2-car garage and a backyard deck.
It is listed $110,000 under the 2008 purchase price.
Is this a deal for the neighborhood?
Gregory Desmond at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures and a virtual tour here.
Or you can see it in person at the Open House this Sunday, June 19, from 1 PM to 3 PM.
2233 W. Homer: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in June 1994 for $219,500
- Sold in July 2005 for $599,000
- Sold in June 2008 for $785,000
- Currently listed for $675,000
- Taxes of $8098
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 20×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 15×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×7 (second floor)
- Den: 10×8 (main floor)
- Unfinished basement
I like this little pocket of Bucktown. House looks to be in good shape with all ‘necessary’ enhancements. I think this will move at about 650. Two issues that might come up…not close to public transit (ah…a cc favorite) and a short lot.
Im thinking another 100K off will do it. Unless major reno was done after 2005, all buyers all expecting pricing below 2005 levels.
what??? Not close to public transport? I guess walking to the western blue line, or armitage bus or milwaukee bus or western bus isn’t enough? This is a good location, beautiful place, great kitchen, not insane taxes, nice deck…my issue would be carpet. Oh when will carpet go away like horsewhips and beta video machines?
Feel like I should get some sort of prize (although for what I can’t really say):
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9951#comment-164322
“not close to public transit”
well, there is the small matter of the blue line (have to zig a little but still close)
“I think this will move at about 650”
So 2235 Homer has been sitting a long time with $799K list. What’s the delta for a finished basement?
oops my bad. Was thinking this was a bit further east and not too accessible to the Western stop. Guessing the big thing then will be the short lot, but I think this will move rather quickly. It’s move in ready .
I’m thinking a lot closer to 500-550. Nice place (ditto for their neighbor), but in this location for more than the 2005 price? Give me a break…
“Oh when will carpet go away like horsewhips and beta video machines?”
I cannot wait for it to happen to!
“What’s the delta for a finished basement?”
What does it get valued at, or what does it cost?
Both depend on what was done in connection with finishing it.
I lived around the corner for a couple years and this is a very pleasant block, mostly similar cottages. One problem may be a lack of decent elementary options (an old bit, I know). Can anyone speaking to the school situation?
One of the Shepherd’s cottages a few doors down at 2243 W Homer closed at $522,500 on 7/12/2010. This home was in great shape.
2233 W Homer is over priced.
Stephen
“Guessing the big thing then will be the short lot, but I think this will move rather quickly. It’s move in ready .”
Most places in btown are on short lots (not that that’s not a negative but something to keep in mind when comparing).
I would think this would sell at $600K. I’m not sure if the major reno is before the 2005 sale or not (2008 listing is not entirely clear, $600K seems “cheap” for house in this condition in 2005). Newer or recent significant reno’d (in 2000s) SFHs that meet most of the checkboxes and have substantially more space than this place have been selling in $700-800K range in btown.
Pretty house. I like it. I would rip out the monster deck though. I would much rather have a back yard with a lawn than a huge deck. For that matter, if I didn’t want to deal with a lawn, I would rather create a large patio with flagstone. Decks are just very unappealing to me. I have one on my roof and it’s annoying to maintain, but with a roof, I don’t feel like I have much of a choice.
“What does it get valued at, or what does it cost?
Both depend on what was done in connection with finishing it.”
If you ask, the answer will always be both, but I was mostly thinking value, and in particular relative to 2235.
“One problem may be a lack of decent elementary options (an old bit, I know). Can anyone speaking to the school situation?”
It’s in Pulaski, which is “up and coming” following its conversion to IB program to attract neighborhood yuppies. Not fully neighborhood yet, even in younger grades (I believe).
“One of the Shepherd’s cottages a few doors down at 2243 W Homer closed at $522,500 on 7/12/2010. This home was in great shape.”
1.5 bath, spiral staircase, and 2 bd (although larger 2nd bed than 2233/5)
Was the 1994 price of 219.5K considered expensive at the time for this house and location? I assume that was before the renovation?
I forgot what thread anon and G were asking about why I think that the housing market will start coming back. Here is just one bit of evidence:
http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/112941/ipos-boost-demand-silicon-valley-mansions-bloomberg
ah yes, the groupon millionaire theory
“I would think this would sell at $600K. I’m not sure if the major reno is before the 2005 sale or not (2008 listing is not entirely clear, $600K seems “cheap” for house in this condition in 2005).”
At a minimum, the MBR suite was added.
2008 Listed for $829,900 contract at $785k after 21 days. Per listing:
“STUNNING SHEPARDS COTTAGE ON BEAUTIFUL HOMER STREET IN BUCKTOWN. DON’T MISS THIS RECENT REHAB. NEW EAT IN KITCHEN WITH INLAID TILE FLOOR, STAINLESS STEEL APP, WINE BAR, AND SITTING ROOM. HUGE MASTER SUITE ADDITION WITH MARBLE BATHROOM, FIREPLACE AND BUILT-IN BOOKSHELVES. NOT TO MENTION ALL THE VINTAGE DETAIL. HOME OVERLOOKS ERHLER PARK. WALKING DISTANCE TO EL AND EVERYTHING BUCKTOWN HAS TO OFFER.”
Per the 2005 listing which got a full price offer in 15 days:
“BUCKTOWN RED BRICK QUEEEN ANN STYLE TOTAL REHAB VINTAGE COTTAGE. FEATURES OPEN SUNNY FLOOR PLAN. LARGE KITCHEN WITH SEPARATE EAT-IN AREA OFF 21X12 SUNDECK. CERAMIC TILED KITCHEN FLOORS, 2BD, 1.5 BATHS, SEPARATE DINNING RM, HWFL’S, BEAUTIFUL WOODEN BANISTER, AND 3 STAINGLASS WINDOWS, GREAT WOOD TRIM THROUGH OUT. QUIET STREET. 2 CAR GARAGE, YD.
Age:100+ Years, Recent Rehab
Office 15X8 2nd Level
Master Bedroom 14X10 2nd Level
2nd Bedroom 12X10 2nd Level”
1994 Listed for $239,900 contract at $219,500 after 80 days. It looks like it was “rehabbed” then, too:
“BEAUTIFULLY RESTORED VICTORIAN SHEPHERDS COTTAGE. CARVED STAIRCASES, ORIGINAL WOODWORK,STAINED GLASS, EXTRAORDINARY KITCHEN OVERLOOKS DECK AND HOT TUB! NEW ROOF ADDED LAST SUMMER. THIS GEM HAS IT ALL. PRICED LIKE A TOWN HOUSE. ECHLER CHILDRENS PARK IS RIGHT BEHIND HOME. CLOSE ATTENTION TO DETAILING WHEN REHABBED. HEART OF BUCKTOWN.”
“I forgot what thread anon and G were asking about why I think that the housing market will start coming back.”
The question wasn’t why, it was how you’ll measure it:
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10716#comment-164245
“Was the 1994 price of 219.5K considered expensive at the time for this house and location? I assume that was before the renovation?”
Think about how hard it is for the average American to save up $565,000 over fourteen years from their income. Then consider how many of these property owners enriched themselves over a similar timeframe merely from owning. This house of cards was bound to fall.
They were too foolish to even wonder what Bear Stearns was or why they blew up three months prior. Financial distress awaits this owner.
“At a minimum, the MBR suite was added.”
Thanks, G.
“Was the 1994 price of 219.5K considered expensive at the time for this house and location? I assume that was before the renovation?”
I dunno. Bucktown did change a lot between then and now (or by early or mid 200s). Although the “heart of bucktown” comment in 1994 listing G posted is interesting.
“Think about how hard it is for the average American to save up $565,000 over fourteen years from their income”
ha.. funny question… average american = impossible
“Then consider how many of these property owners enriched themselves over a similar timeframe merely from owning.”
Nothing wrong with making money simply owning assets. I like the Safra woman who sold her families home in South of France for 750 million. Probably owned it for 500 years. Kinda how wealth was always preserved. Damn 1900’s and its tax codes, just about ruined Newport.
“I like the Safra woman who sold her families home in South of France for 750 million. Probably owned it for 500 years.”
What was her family’s annualized appreciation on their place vs. this Bucktown workers cottage? Methinks one has a much more stable trendline.
“Was the 1994 price of 219.5K considered expensive at the time for this house and location? I assume that was before the renovation?”
It was considered insanity by long-time residents. However, sfh rehabs (for the era) were going for mid to high $200k on the nicer streets by 1994. I didn’t really follow them since my attention at the time was focused on the seemingly never-ending listings for cash-flowing 2-3 flats in the $100k-200k range, as well as those occasional lots for under $40k.
Methinks one has a much more stable trendline.
With Frances history, me thinks that trendline has quite a few little trendlines, with more severe instabilities than anything we ever saw in our lives. 🙂
G… fyi. 18% per 1% on a 30yr.
ze, you sound kind of like one of those astrophysicists from LTCM when you ask me to ignore my opinions of i and price declines and just obey the math.
G. I’ve been watching sports all my life… what percent do you beat the spread? I booked in College, the numbers fall *below* 50%.
Not sharing with you MY opinion. Just showing where the risk really is. 18% per 1% move on a 30yr. Serious shit!
I’m a lot like you in a way G. Here’s the info… and after that…
and they believed their bets (made strictly on data interpretation) and completely ignored the risk.
I’m just showing you the part they refused to look at.
does i go up make prices fall?
or does i stay low until they stablilize
“does i go up make prices fall?
or does i stay low until they stablilize”
Not an either/or question–both.
does i go up make prices fall?
or does i stay low until they stablilize
I’ll go with I don’t know on the first, but would expect it to if it was raised tomorrow.
Part 2, i’d say that’s the goal.. reality.. no idea.
how are renters hurt by this in z’s scenario?
Trivial pursuit – Lily Safra didn’t own the house for all that long. It was originally built for King Leopold of Belgium – the guy that owned the Congo/Zaire as personal real estate.
“Not sharing with you MY opinion. Just showing where the risk really is. 18% per 1% move on a 30yr. Serious shit!”
Ze, you are a little hard to follow sometimes. That is, of course, part of your charm. But what are you saying? That the impact of a 1 percent increase in (real) interest rates over the course of a 30 year fixed rate mortgage is 18 percent? Correct that this assumes no countervailing impact from:
1. potentially lower prices as result of higher real rates (if the 18 percent is the true downside as opposed to worst case, there’d have to be big effect on prices, not that I really want to have that whole debate again, which we had a while ago, probably while you were gone)
2. selling prior to 30 years
3. ability to refinance should rates back down as some point over the 30 years (net of costs of refinancing)
Meant to ask the three points as a question.
Also, wikipedia entry on the villa (which ze can now edit to his liking per his cribchatter post)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Villa_Leopolda
DZ.. Who do you think posted the part about Prokhorov and prostitutes, nothing smarter than upsetting Russian Bi-zillionaires.
Then the woman doesn’t want the attention and donates 40 million Euros to charity… WOW!
DZ.. also yes to everything but I’ll add NPV impact (i made a discount curve). To # 3.. ok, but lower to where?
#1, much more interesting. people won’t see it. They will see 80 or so dollars a month more per 100k.
Kinda like if you stopped working. Balance sheet looks the same as yesterday, but you know it’s not.
So today I saw this Miller High Life ad from 1949 and it dawned on me: most of you baby boomers don’t know anything. Debt has been the norm your entire lives and policy makers made that debt ever easier to accumulate. But now the game is up and the levy has broken.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulmalon/5376090813/
Many on here are anchored to peak pricing due to this, but the reality is that peak pricing is unsustainable. Half a million dollars for Bucktown workers cottages are unsustainable.
It doesn’t get much dumber than the person who bought this for $785,000 in 2008, except likely their banker and the US taxpayer who bought their toxic paper via Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
These idiots in 2005 & 2008 should’ve NEVER been allowed to play in such big financial sandboxes. Of course the government was complicit in this because higher property valuations = higher property taxes.
Lets play a new game called calling out the shills and idiots.
This will be my prediction whether someone on here makes their livelihood off of housing transaction volume (shill) or just a yahoo mentally anchored to peak pricing (idiot).
Trudi – shill. Language/verbage like a broker straight from the MLS, except not in caps.
cominghome38 – idiot. Thinks there is some magic formula to determine market sale price based on amount invested by previous owners. Loose correlation at best.
BettyBoop – she did not make a specific numeric bullish guess. But anyone who thinks carpet is main sticking point on 500k+ purchase…lol.
TftInChi – neither. Might sell at 520k only because that’s the upper limit for bozo (taxpayer backed) financing. Would never sell near this if risk was property priced into financing.
DZ – a little too bullish. Not idiot territory tho, yet. 600k guess will likely be solidly in idiot territory by next summer though.
Ze: on #3, down from the +1 percent; on #1, doesn’t per month come down from lower price (to serve as offset to impact of +1 percent).
Bob: game is fine but calling idiots should really be done after sale, and I think most think the prediction is really what will it sell for now, not a year plus (otherwise it’s just HD going on about 1899 prices). Note also I think someone would pay $600K or so but sellers might not take. Have you looked at recent sales in btown and what’s your prediction for now?
DZ.. whew.. took me awhile to get the ?
#1 you are assuming prices go down as rates go up, just a textbook assumption in my opinion, maybe if I went to class I’d agree with it 100%.
I was being cute on # 3 since we are at/near historic low rates.
Truth is your point on number 3 would require one more step, much further complicating things (more work- options too – I refuse), but, in fairness, making them more accurate. At historic low interest rates you can *kind of* exclude refi (or just recognize it would provide very limited benefit), at much higher rates you can not.
I’m also not saying rates can’t drop here a point and bring you equivalent benefit. That rates can’t sit here while prices drop (actually my belief), or anything else. Just illustrating the risk is not where you see it if you are looking at *price*, price is not the biggest risk.
I didn’t think there was much if any correlation between housing prices and mortgage rates.
“I didn’t think there was much if any correlation between housing prices and mortgage rates.”
http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/9/27/saupload_housing_and_interest_rates.png
People will find correlations in anything, I guess – a whopping .24 R squared.
And that’s with his timeframe. If you go from 1891-2006, or 1950-2006 (the two I looked at), the correlation between the long bond rate (30 year fixed data only goes back to 1970) and housing price changes is actually positive – higher interest rates -> higher housing costs.
I shouldn’t have implied causation there. There is a very low R squared – very very small positive POSITIVE correlation between interest rates and housing prices.
“People will find correlations in anything, I guess – a whopping .24 R squared.”
Historically rates rose as the economy was booming, which helped buffer RE prices. Except the 1980s that was a dinger due to very fast rates. Today RE prices fell under their own weight..so my guess is if rates go up prices would fall with them.
Also the financial sector makes much more $ in a dynamic rate environment than a flat yield curve. At some point they’re going to turn against homeowners and want higher rates.
“Have you looked at recent sales in btown and what’s your prediction for now?”
No and I don’t have a current prediction for this. I’ve seen some strange stuff going on in this area with regard to valuations. Maybe 600k but if they can’t move it this summer at that price it’s going lower next year. Bucktown is set to deflate, IMO.
“I didn’t think there was much if any correlation between housing prices and mortgage rates.”
Somewhat disproves the Fed’s rationale for QE. Although not surprising because QE was really about currency debasement all along and not about shaving 20bps off the yield curve.
“whew.. took me awhile to get the ?
#1 you are assuming prices go down as rates go up, just a textbook assumption in my opinion, maybe if I went to class I’d agree with it 100%.
I was being cute on # 3 since we are at/near historic low rates.”
Sorry, I was on the train. On #1, I’m not saying there should be a complete offset, just something to consider as at least a partial offset. On #3, agreed generally, but if they go up 1 percent (which is the risk you are talking about), hard to completely dismiss that they might go down at least part of that 1 percent.
“People will find correlations in anything, I guess – a whopping .24 R squared.”
Complicated question for which just looking at the r squared doesn’t tell you a lot.
“hard to completely dismiss that they might go down at least part of that 1 percent”
Completely agree, I also don’t dismiss it going up another 1 percent FROM the up 1% or back to where it was from the up 1%.
Simply, your risk IF it goes up 1% is about 18k.
We’ve debated the correlation between mortgage rates and home prices before. As you’re discussing the data doesn’t support a negative correlation. It’s because there are many reasons for low or high rates and those underlying reasons have different impacts on home prices: low vs. high inflation, strong vs. weak economy, government intervention. Then there is the slope of the yield curve and the expectation of the ability to refinance in the future.
I think we should do a CCer home tour. We could include owners and renters 🙂
“If you ask, the answer will always be both, but I was mostly thinking value, and in particular relative to 2235.”
I meant wrt the comparative value–the comparison depends on what was done in the one with the finished space. From an appraisal perspective is, of course, a separate issue.
If you’re just talking about making it look like the other, without excavation or redoing all the plumbing or anything else major, you can get it done easily for $40 psf, and probably somewhat less.
“I meant wrt the comparative value–the comparison depends on what was done in the one with the finished space. From an appraisal perspective is, of course, a separate issue.”
Understood. Wasn’t clear to me what was done in 2235. I figured 2235 probably is not getting offers in the $750K range, otherwise it would probably be sold. If it were a completely done done basement, I’d value at at least $100K personally, prob more, which would then suggest 2233 is not worth $650K.
I stopped by their open house this weekend. Price was recently reduced to $650. Owners have moved out. R/E agent said the reno happened in 2007. It was nicely done. Master is huge as is the master closet. Some staining on the marble counter top and floor in the master bath which is a bummer as you either live with it or replace it. 3rd BR is small and can only really be used as a nursery or office. Still nice to have 3 rooms upstairs. Plenty of storage in the kitchen even though the actual work area is small. Stacked laundry up stairs as well as side by side in the basement. The major issue for us was the powder room on the main floor. It’s located under the stairs and there is no way an average height guy can stand and go to the bathroom. The slanted ceiling is very low.