The 3-Bedroom Luxury Bucktown Condo: 1955 W. Cortland
This 3-bedroom top floor duplex up condo at 1955 W. Cortland in Bucktown was built with luxury in mind.
It has 20 foot high ceilings in the living room and 3 outdoor spaces, including one deck measuring 20×18.
There are no cherry cabinets here.
The kitchen, according to the listing, has custom Italian cabinetry along with Viking appliances and Grohe and Duravit fixtures.
There are natural stone baths.
There is also a separate laundry room with a much coveted side-by-side washer/dryer.
At 2800 square feet, it is larger than many homes in the area.
It has also been reduced about $109,000 since April 2010.
Is this condo a good SFH substitute for those who want low maintenance but still want the Bucktown lifestyle?
Jude Ellis at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3E: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2800 square feet, duplex up
- Sold in June 2006 for $855,000
- Originally listed in April 2010 for $959,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $849,900
- Assessments of $283 a month
- Taxes of $12,172
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 15×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×11 (main floor)
- Bedroom #3: 13×16 (main floor)
- Den: 17×10 (second floor)
850k to put a TV above a fireplace. ugh, fire up the flux capacitor, I’m going back to 1922… I’m just not a fan of the open floor plan.
Although, I love the size and light in the master bath, and the assessments are low. I’m also a sucker for a roof deck- something about drinking beer at altitude. Are the taxes high?
If you are looking in Bucktown and this is in your price range, it seems like a good place. If you are open to different neighborhoods, I think that there are better buys in better neighborhoods.
ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz
“Are the taxes high?”
They got a *large* reduction in AV for ’09 (from 84853 to 70478), w/o an appeal. Of course, if it sells for about ask, they’ll go back up next re-assessment.
Newer stuff always has higher taxes, as the HO exemption doesn’t help as much.
Not nice/big enough to compete with the SFHs in the same price range
Also–I don’t buy the 2800 SF of interior space.
Are cherry cabinets unhip? I don’t get it.
Instead of this Megalith McCrapBox for 800-900k you can get a vinyl sided house in the Green Zone!
A lot of us complain about cherry/granite/stainless in every Chicago condo. I don’t know about un-hip (nor do I care), but it’s unimaginative.
“They got a *large* reduction in AV for ‘09 (from 84853 to 70478), w/o an appeal. Of course, if it sells for about ask, they’ll go back up next re-assessment.”
Assessment ratio changed for 2009 from 16% to 10% so really the equalized value went from $530,331 to $704,780. Expect the tax rate to go up when released in November.
“so really the equalized value went from $530,331 to $704,780”
Incorrect. The *”market”* value went from 530 to 704. The *equalized* values aren’t going to be known until the EQ factor is disclosed, which will likely be 2 minutes after the polls close on Election Day. I doubt that their taxes will go up, or at least not much, as most people are *not* getting 17% reductions in AV on their residential property, but many, many commercial and industrial owners are. I’ve been pegging the tax bill neutral AV decrease at ~15% for 9+ months now.
This size of reduction–with no apparent basis–is the sort of reduction that stinks of connections and corruption, not that I am suggesting that there is anything untoward in this circumstance.
Yuck.
What is with the marble stairs next to the tub that are leading to the bright lights. Is that the entrance to heaven?
Seems like a good slip and fall opportunity. However if there is an outdoor shower just past that door, I’m buying the place!
While I like no love the open floor plan it would need a separate TV or ‘family room” in this case it appears that the “family room is nestled in a small landing area located just in front of the master bedroom and right above all the noise and echo’s of the LV/DN/K combo. Not good. It also looks like a landing area en route to the roof deck door.
Good finishes though!
quick question guys. how can i see how a developer built a building…like blueprints and the types of materials they used. Is it public records? How do i know if the building was built crappy or with quality? Doing my homework on 523 N Racine…like you guys suggested. I did a home inspection and the inspection seems like there isn’t any big concerns. However, the home inspection only covers the the inside of my unit.
So my current situation
:Got the banks approval for 523 N Racine Unit 3. The Sale price is $172,500
Seems like i Cannot find anything in this area for that price…2bed 2bath
:Home inspection says only minor problems inside. Easy fixes.
:Condo board is a mystery. Not sure whats going on with the finances…..budget, reserves etc….
I do like the location, size…looks like a good deal to me. However, concerns are future unexpected expenses and taxes.
trying to do as much homework as i can…..any suggestions….and can use any information you guys can give me. Thanks.
There’s this place, down to $800K from $1.125MM.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1915-N-Damen-Ave-60647/unit-E/home/18928621
john, a good home inspector will inspect all common elements too. get another one.
“There’s this place, down to $800K from $1.125MM.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1915-N-Damen-Ave-60647/unit-E/home/18928621”
DZ, that is cool. Was just discussing modern(ized) midcentury on the other post, and this is a nice example.
Good find, DZ — much nicer, more unique space right around the corner. Tough comp.
thanks revassal. i will get another home inspector out there before i actually buy :). Well worth it if he/she finds any big problems i didn’t notice.
I could see buying the 1915 N Damen place (although taxes, w/o homeowner exemption are really high) but for that crazy interior courtyard…
DZ: that place is really nice!
“although taxes, w/o homeowner exemption are really high”
The HO, by itself, would only change it by about $1k.
The last reassessment was -16.2% from the AV that lead to those taxes, so, again, I would expect them to look *relatively* much better come November. Which says nothing about whether they’d be lower.
“thanks revassal. i will get another home inspector out there before i actually buy :). Well worth it if he/she finds any big problems i didn’t notice.”
Definitely get a second inspection, if only for the exterior, as that’s where the big $$$ will creep up on you. Also make sure that your Lawyer gets on the condo board’s ass about the building situation. If you can’t get an honest assessment of how the building is structurally/financially, I’d head for the hills.
The 1915 Damen place is directly next door to the fire station, sort of a bummer.
anon: I know there is probably no clear answer to this but I’m going to ask it anyway. Let’s say you had 5 places that were unquestionably good comps for each other and there’s no recent sale of any of them. Then, one of them sells for significantly more (or less) than the assessed value (or whatever the term I mean is).
What happens? Will the taxes for one that sold be disproportionately affected compared to the others? If so, can you appeal based on that? Does the size of the tax effect differ depending on whether the price is going up or down?
Wow, that 1915 Damen place is so much nicer than this one. They are in trouble. I just don’t know why anyone would pick something like this when the LSD vintage unit is only a few hundred grand more. If I hadn’t already bough, that LSD place would be high on my list.
“Does the size of the tax effect differ depending on whether the price is going up or down?”
I have made numerous appeals for tax/assessed value reduction. There really doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason of who gets the reduction – and the process/reception is vastly different with each assessor’s office.
I DO know that if you personally make your own appeal and go to the assessor’s office, request a hearing, etc. and bring proof of why your assessment should be lower, you MAY have a better chance -but usually if a unit is in a complex, they are unlikely to vary the assessments.
“Let’s say you had 5 places that were unquestionably good comps for each other and there’s no recent sale of any of them. Then, one of them sells for significantly more (or less) than the assessed value (or whatever the term I mean is).
What happens? Will the taxes for one that sold be disproportionately affected compared to the others? If so, can you appeal based on that? Does the size of the tax effect differ depending on whether the price is going up or down?”
First, you only get hit when there’s a reassessment–every 3d year. But say there are 5 *identical* houses (condos may/may not be a diff story, but I know your focus anyway) which sold new for $100 and have been re-assessed in tandem for several years so that their current “market value” (which is now supposed to rep “real” market value and be 10x Assessed Value, which is the actual base number for taxation) is all $250. (And say–just for fun–all five pay different tax amounts, b/c of the variety of exemptions).
*in the past* if one of the houses sold for $400, that one would be likely to be re-assessed, but the others wouldn’t necessarily and you’d get a ready-made appeal (ie, a way to pass $$ to the appeals attorneys associated with names like Madigan, Cullerton, etc, even tho they, for obvious reasons, focus on commercial/industrial) for lack of uniformity–4 identical houses are assessed lower, the 5th most be over-assessed. This was easy, b/c AVs had very little relationship to *actual* market values. How this will play out with the revisions–intended to make sense of the MV:AV relationship–hasn’t been tested thoroughly yet.
If the house sold for $175, it *might* get a reduction in AV, but (1) not as much of a slamdunk and (2) would be *very* unlikely to reduce the other 4 AVs, too. Appeal would be a likely loser, but again, not certain. This *also* is an unknown going forward.
G, were he around, would correct/refine/expand some of these points, I’m sure. But the short answer is: under the old system, unless you *knew* someone, who knows, and that’s still the answer, but it should be a little easier to spot shenanigans, which of course makes the machine unhappy.
800k+ low rise condos don’t make any sense to me when you can get a really nice SFH in the hood for the same money and get your own yard, private garage, no association to deal with, etc… Gotta be a tough sell over there.
John,
Here are a few observations on this address.
There are structural cracks in the brick on 521 although the front of 523 looks to be ok at the moment. I noticed that they did not finish the downspouts correctly and it now pushes that water to the front lawn. Over time this means flooding in the basement or foundation area. There are several holes in the rear brick for utilities that are not weather tight. This indicates some water penetration for three years. That is not a good thing. The balconies will need to be sanded and repainted. They are peeling and were not treated correctly.
The hallways and common areas look like section 8 level finishes. I noticed several broken tiles and damaged drywall. These are simple fixes but a clear indicator of how your neighbors currently live. One of the back doors is not meant to be used as an outside door and is not holding up well. It has been ripped open breaking the door frame. This is bad neighbor indicator red flag number 2. There is no garage just a parking space. That does not ever bode well for resale.
The office space on the first floor has been ripped apart and vacant for at least 2 years. This space will not likely be rented anytime soon and therefore could have a lasting negative effect on the appearance of your building. In addition is it quite likely that the lack of a renter or owner occupant means that the unit will have a negative financial effect on the building.
If you are able to purchase this place and will still have $20K LIQUID -in your checking or savings account – that can be earmarked to funding any common element repairs and/or special asessments then buy the place.If you are stretching to make this work with 10% down thinking that it will be worth 300K quickly when the market turns around you are FOOLING yourself.
Unless you have 20K extra in cash and get similar neighbors purchasing all of the units in those connected buildings from 521 to 529 then I’d stay away!
“800k+ low rise condos don’t make any sense to me when you can get a really nice SFH in the hood for the same money and get your own yard, private garage, no association to deal with, etc… Gotta be a tough sell over there.”
I’m much more likely to go the SFH route, but SFH that list in that price range are plenty nice but don’t have really high end finishes.
BTW, thanks anon. Asking out of idle curiosity mostly. The tax stuff may be the one thing more confusing than CPS.
John,
Get reserve study from Board, make sure assessments are calculated to meet obsolesence/depreciation schedule. Ask for Board minutes for last 2 years. Board is supposed to have building blueprints, occupancy permits, final inspection permits-look at them all, at least make sure they have them. Looks to me like the building is a McCrap box.
the “association” is “loose”, as per the listing.
I see liens with the Board as the Grantor. I’m thinking tenants in foreclosure haven’t been paying their dues? Scary.
DZ–
Anytime my friend. As I say, someone more directly involved could probably point out how every point I make is incorrect, but that’s how I see it.
Also, until CPS figures out a way to direct $$ to connected folks *directly* as a result of its decisions, it will remain more comprehensible than the property tax system.
“DZ on August 24th, 2010 at 2:39 pm
I could see buying the 1915 N Damen place (although taxes, w/o homeowner exemption are really high) but for that crazy interior courtyard…”
2nd. I was all “Ooooooooooooooh look at all that light” until I realized you’re looking at your neighbors and a brick courtyard of nothingness.
“I was all “Ooooooooooooooh look at all that light” until I realized you’re looking at your neighbors and a brick courtyard of nothingness.”
I dunno, they have 15 pix of the unit, 14 showing windows and only 3 of them are of the courtyard–and all basically the same pic.
Wow…jp3Chicago.
You seem to be very VERY knowledgeable with these units. I am buying this place cash and i do have at least $20K liquid. The only other thing is that each building has its own condo association…its weired that its set up that way. So if the 521 N Racine has cracks…that is that associations problem. Would the cracks effect 523 N Racine outside structure…since its side by side? Thats the reason i decided on 523 N Racine…because i am in the middle. I was told that being in the middle has the least amount of structural problems. I know the 4th floor is being rented….and not sure about the 2nd floor. It appears that there might not be an association in place for this building. The loose or no association…scares me…however i am willing to take over or start the association. If the other units are bank owned does the bank have to pay its share in the association fees? It seem like the other units in the other builds are selling…thats what my Realtor is showing. A couple of the other units are under contract for 200 plus.
Dan: You are right the first floor is zoned commercial because of the zoning in river west. River west is a good location….but it seems like the zoning is mixed and all over the place. Not sure if thats a good or bad thing.
logansquarean: Yes it does look like all the units were foreclosed on. “I see liens with the Board as the Grantor. I’m thinking tenants in foreclosure haven’t been paying their dues? Scary.” What does this mean?
Cyclops: The listing agent has no condo board information…my agent was asking for them…and he said he didn’t have any info. Its a bank owned property….so i am going to try to knock on the 4th floor. Any other suggestions?
I am hoping once everything settles that it will turn out to be a good investment. I also want to live there long term and maybe rent it out later down the road.
ALL And ANY input here will greatly help. Thanks
As a cash buyer I’d say you are in much better shape! Just be prepared to deal with other unit owners that are non responsive at best. I am quite intimate with that area as my office is on the block.
Jp3chicago: You should move your office into 523 N Racine…you sound like you would be a good unit owner for the building 🙂 I know the other first floor units sold for under 100k….maybe it would be a good buy?
The original building from this post and the other building from the redfin listing that everyone prefers are both essentially next to the cortland fire station. That is why the prices have been reduced. LOUD.
“The listing agent has no condo board information…my agent was asking for them…and he said he didn’t have any info. Its a bank owned property….so i am going to try to knock on the 4th floor. Any other suggestions?”
About 523 N Racine- be very cautious buying in a building with no condo association if that is the case here. I don’t know anything about this specific building but we have discussed foreclosed condos before. The Chicago press has been very good at documenting what is happening in many condo buildings where there are tons of foreclosures and no known association (basically, water, gas etc. being turned off to the building and the current “owners” having to pay back payments to get the water turned back on.) It’s a HUGE responsibility for the other owners in the building (some are suing banks to try and hold them responsible for unpaid assessments- but that doesn’t help much when the water is turned off TODAY.)
A buyer should look into everything that the condo board is paying for and assume that it is not being paid. Could be snow removal, grass cutting, water, gas, even garbage disposal.
Just my two cents- a buyer is much better off buying a foreclosed house where at least you can control the situation and aren’t at the mercy of other “homeowners.”
We’ve talked about the dangers of buying foreclosed condos before:
http://cribchatter.com/?p=3528
i’ve seen on-the-market $600k 3bed/3ba in Lakeview that are just as comparable and/or nicer than this unit.
Nice place, but worth 500K tops. This one has short sale written all over it.
Looked at one of the commercial units back in Feb but was scared away by a few things. 1. As Sabrina suggested.it could be a initial pain in the ass until the back issues are caught up and a strong Assoc is in place. 2. The construction looks pretty good although I fear that many corners could have been cut inside causing special assesment issues down the line. 3. As my business grows we might need just a more space.
If you buy it and are successful getting things turned around I’d look at that unit again.
“Nice place, but worth 500K tops.”
$178/SF (assuming square footage is about accurate) + an entire rooftop + garage parking… You don’t know much about Bucktown my friend. I’d say the price is still high, but $500K is a joke for this place.
“i’ve seen on-the-market $600k 3bed/3ba in Lakeview that are just as comparable and/or nicer than this unit.”
It would be nice to know which places if you still had their info handy or if there are ones still on the market.
“i’ve seen on-the-market $600k 3bed/3ba in Lakeview that are just as comparable and/or nicer than this unit.”
It would be nice to know which places if you still had their info handy or if there are ones still on the market.
Silence = No Such Thing (as a $600K comparable in LV)
“$178/SF (assuming square footage is about accurate) + an entire rooftop + garage parking… You don’t know much about Bucktown my friend. I’d say the price is still high, but $500K is a joke for this place.”
There’s a grand total of 5 condos priced over 500k in bucktown.
This looks fairly comparable (though just 1 parking) at 550k:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2322-W-Belden-Ave-60647/unit-2/home/28644254
There’s no market for expensive condos like that in bucktown. Once you get over 600k you can be looking at SFHs. This ain’t LP or LV.
“This ain’t LP or LV.”
Don’t tell that to hipster-sympathizers like Jon who can’t tell the difference and think BT should trade at similar valuations. It doesn’t.
I used to walk by this condo every day on my way to the train. It’s very nice looking from the outside and has a great location. The 2322 Belden one isn’t really a comparable IMO. It’s toward the north end of Bucktown and right near Western. This place is right off Damen and the feel of the location is totally different – and much better.
That said, even if I still lived in Bucktown there’s no way I’d go condo for 800K. Or even 600K. Or 400K. But I’m a SFH guy.
“Don’t tell that to hipster-sympathizers like Jon who can’t tell the difference and think BT should trade at similar valuations. It doesn’t.”
I never said that. In fact, I just made the point that you can’t find a $600K comp (that was someone’s claim) in Lakeview. This place might sell at this price if it were in Lakeview. Not to me and not to you though.
“There’s a grand total of 5 condos priced over 500k in bucktown.”
With all due respect, you are dead wrong about this.
I’ve never understood why anyone would pay Lincoln Park prices for Bucktown. Maybe I could get these same people to trade me a Mercedes for a Ford.
“With all due respect, you are dead wrong about this.”
Pulled it from Redfin, so if I’m wrong, then Redfin is wrong (kinda doubt that…)
“The 2322 Belden one isn’t really a comparable IMO.”
Yea sorry, didn’t pay much attention to the location, other than it was in Bucktown. You’re right, that location isn’t as good.
“Pulled it from Redfin, so if I’m wrong, then Redfin is wrong (kinda doubt that…)”
We’ve chatted about 4 of them on here (three on this thread & 2075 N. Oakley). Then there’s (and may not be entirely accurate, but just to refute the 5-count):
1903 W. Armitage
1652 N. Claremont
1600 N. Marshfield
2214 W. North
2318 N. Hamilton
2216 W. Armitage
1849 N. Hermitage
2310 W. Wabansia
2233 W. Lyndale
1747 N. Wolcott
2143 W. Lyndale
2029 W. St. Paul
1950 N. Damen
Well, you get the idea.
@jon – just because im silent doesnt mean it doesnt exist. it means that i dont troll the cribchatter boards every 15 minutes.
650k LV, 2600sqft – http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3545-N-Wilton-Street-Unit-1S_Chicago_IL_60657_1117914792
625k LV, 2250sqft – http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/3330-N-Ashland-Avenue-Unit-2_Chicago_IL_60657_1117640489 (i know ppl dont like ashland as a location, but i just said Lakeview in general)
“Well, you get the idea.”
Well, not my fault that realtors are sloppy and/or deceiving and tagging condos as townhomes… Hard to get accurate data when the mls is full of bullshit.
“This place might sell at this price if it were in Lakeview.”
During the bubble I could see that. But these days there are even non-crapshack (IMO) SFHs for sale in Lakeview for far less. You can get them for around 500kish. I guess the devil is in the details of what I consider a crapshack vs. the average CC poster (which seems to want graniteel, etc).
i tried to post the below earlier but it said my comment was awaiting moderation b/c i had hyperlinks in it i think…anyway, it never posted, so sorry if this posts twice…
“@jon, silence doesnt mean it doesnt exist. it just means that i dont spend every waking moment trolling the crib chatter message boards.
650k, 2600sqft – 3545 N Wilton #1S
625k, 2250sqft – 3330 N Ashland (i know ppl arent a big fan of the Ashland location, but still worth noting)”
If you disagree with the above, that’s your opinion. But then my next question to you would be “are u in the market to buy a place like this?” because we are. and this place does not interest me, but the above two i listed do interest me & are on our list to see. and to me, well that makes my opinion more relevant and not simply hypothetical.
i would like to know, however, what you think this Bucktown place gives me for an extra $200k that these places do not.
um you aren’t living on ashland or wilton? And both I believe are duplex DOWNS thats why they are so much cheaper
obviously the duplex down lowers the values, as does being that close to wrigley and the tracks, i’d think, for wilton, and obviously being on ashland for 3330.
re: wilton, 2S AND 4S are also for sale, in addition to 1S. Something going on there?
sonies i don’t get your comment, “um you aren’t living on ashland or wilton?”
none of us live on cortland either so what does that mean?
and in addition, i thought being close to the fire station for this unit was a detractor, perhaps comparable to a block away from the EL (in comparision to wilton). also, the whole wrigley perspective is interesting to me… we actually would see living closer to wrigley as fun. but thats just us, i can see how others may not like that.
“If you disagree with the above, that’s your opinion. But then my next question to you would be “are u in the market to buy a place like this?” because we are.”
Neither of the places that you metioned are duplex ups. If you are in the market for a duplex down or a middle unit (and don’t make any distinction on that basis), then you should be fine. In my view these aren’t even close to comparables. As for me, I’m all set – got my 3 bedroom duplex up in Bucktown long ago. Best of luck to you in your search (said with sincerity, not the snarkiness that usually accompanies comments like this on CC) 😉
“sonies i don’t get your comment, “um you aren’t living on ashland or wilton?”
none of us live on cortland either so what does that mean?”
wilton = EL going through your living room
Ashland = worst street in the city to live directly on
cortland = nice side street
“Ashland = worst street in the city to live directly on”
Very much doubt it.
““Ashland = worst street in the city to live directly on”
Very much doubt it.”
western is top 5
any street in the “wild hundreds” is top 10
Cicero ave is another top 10
80% of the streets in Uptown is also top 10
“““Ashland = worst street in the city to live directly on”
Very much doubt it.”
western is top 5”
That’s all you need to know–I can’t think of any block b/t Roosevelt and Evanston where Ashland is worse than Western (as a street to live on) at the same address number.
“That’s all you need to know–I can’t think of any block b/t Roosevelt and Evanston where Ashland is worse than Western (as a street to live on) at the same address number.”
I’d take the 4700-4900 block of Western over Ashland, but yeah, that’s about it.
“in the city”
“b/t Roosevelt and Evanston”
It’s confirmed: anon is one of that large group that believe the city ends at Roosevelt. I’ve heard if you go south you could fall off the Earth.
whatever it still sucks
“It’s confirmed: anon is one of that large group that believe the city ends at Roosevelt.”
No, but I’m not stupid enough to opine about the relative merits of Ashland v. Western in a part of the city that I don’t know well.
Unlike lots of other people (who I won’t name).
“I can’t think of any block b/t Roosevelt and Evanston where Ashland is worse than Western (as a street to live on) at the same address number.”
I don’t know if there have to be actual residences in this hypothetical, but that stretch of ashland by the kennedy/elston has to be worse than western, which is around bucktown at that point.
It’s not clear to me that the place next door is duplex and it’s one bathroom less, but it has 3 BR and a full rooftop deck. It sold for $565K two months ago (1951 W. Cortland). Doesn’t bode well for the $850K asking price on this place.
“I don’t know if there have to be actual residences in this hypothetical, but that stretch of ashland by the kennedy/elston has to be worse than western, which is around bucktown at that point.”
You are correct sir!
Because, as bad as living adjacent to the el on Western would be, living adjacent to the Kennedy + the metra stop + the tannery + the elston CF on Ashland would be worse.
Basically most of the south side would be better @ Western than @ Ashland. In the 50s, for example, Western would be Gage Park while Ashland is the edge of Moe-town.
But, um, I don’t want to live on either in just about any location. Ashland is actually ok (and underrated) once you’re past the end of the bus line (IP).