The Bucktown 3-Bedroom Duplex Down: 2047 N. Leavitt
This 3-bedroom duplex down at 2047 N. Leavitt in Bucktown came on the market in April 2011.
Built in 2006, the unit has more square footage than many nearby single family homes.
It has 14 foot ceilings, 3 decks and 2 fireplaces.
The kitchen has Viking stainless steel appliances and caesarstone counter tops.
The bathrooms are marble.
1 bedroom is on the main floor with 2 in the lower level, along with the family room.
The listing says there is a $20,000 credit for a close before July 15, 2011.
Do these kind of incentive credits make a difference in today’s market?
Scott Berg at Berg Properties has the listing. See more pictures and a floorplan here.
Unit #1N: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2600 square feet
- Sold in July 2007 for $600,000
- Originally listed in April 2011 for $589,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $585,000
- Assessments of $141 a month
- Taxes of $7664
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- $20,000 credit if you close before 7/15/2011
- Bedroom #1: 16×13 (main level)
- Bedroom #2: 16×13 (lower level)
- Bedroom #3: 11×10 (lower level)
- Family room: 16×15 (lower level)
Is anyone else tired of seeing bathrooms with Granite looking counter tops and Marble looking tile?
Nice enough unit, but I think that it won’t sell for anything more than about $515k or so if the sellers want to get it done before fall.
On the credit, interesting approach, but you’d have to be a fool to leave the date of the closing as the variable for getting the credit. A smart offer would just make the offer for $20k less and say they’ll forego the credit.
Maybe they are trying to create a ‘deal’ without devaluing the property? I’m not sure lenders accept general credits unless you tie it to something–like a closing date or improvement on the unit…with a property built in 2006, assuming there are probably no improvements to be made.
“Granite looking counter tops”
Looks like real granite to me. Are you suggesting it’s not real granite or are you just tired of granite counter tops in the bathrooms. What would you suggest?
I am sure it is granite. I just hate bathrooms that look like kitchens and it is such a common look. Stone or Cement is nice. Glass. I like small balck and white tiles too. Just tired of this look.
Marco – I think that he was suggesting some sort of clash between granite counters and marble tile.
Moot point as I do not think that the mortgage will allow a $20K credit at closing table that is not attributed to fixing a major issue fly anyway…..
Pretty sure it would be real marble and real granite – in any case, who would get tired of that when they are relaxing in a jacuzzi, body spray, rain & steam shower??
Nat- yes, a contrast is needed. The two together make my eyes glaze over. Especially when the large tiles from the floor go up around the tub and the shower.
Bathroom aside. A lot of nice space for the money. If you wanted to live here for 10 years you’d be more than safe at 550–(Id Hope so anyway)
I like the look of stone in bathroom, but as stated earlier needs have contrast with other stone or glass or wood or some other material.
Not sure if it’s trick photography but that throne-shower-tub-vanity hot corner looks pretty tight but then again, maybe it’s just the light…
AM I right in thinking you’d rather be south of Armitage here?
“Is anyone else tired of seeing bathrooms with Granite looking counter tops and Marble looking tile?”
It could work here if you just go for all out bland and chose a light granite to blend in. As is it’s a dash of attempted design surrounded by boring conservative crap.
*hate* the layout. It’s an oversized 2br + office.
Could be a good roommate place or for someone with (very) frequent guests (like divorcee with kids on weekends, or such), but how is that layout practical *at all*?
The lower living room is even open to the upper, so you don’t really have to separate living spaces. And those stupid, *gigantic* fireplace just kill the usable floorspace in both of those rooms.
Note that the only dining table of any sort is on the GatorDeck.
Where is the 14′ ceiling? Along the front window? If it’s only 14′, those are some *seriously* low ceilings on both floors. No other pix give any evidence of any ceiling heights above standards.
May be my least favorite non-damaged, new construction duplex down we’ve had on here, ever.
“south of Armitage”
Not necessarily, it’s still the same residential neighborhood essentially–great for a family, close to holstein park, just the right distance from the busy Damen strip…
“AM I right in thinking you’d rather be south of Armitage here?”
Don’t think that’s clear. It’s maybe a little quieter above Armitage, which has pros and cons, also closer to Holstein park and Pulask elem above Armitage. It’s not like being west of Western.
375k, maybe
“AM I right in thinking you’d rather be south of Armitage here?”
Not far enough West for 600′ to make a difference; frankly, I’d rather be north of Armitage here, but relatively far from Western or the Kennedy. Maybe you’d rather South, but I like the location apart from the school thing–both attendance area (tho improving!) and being across the street from one (personal thing).
sonies–what planet are you on? i’d like to buy real estate on it.
“Not far enough West for 600? to make a difference”
Is there a point farther west where being south of Armitage is preferable?
“i like the location apart from the school thing–both attendance area (tho improving!)…”
It’s not like there some other area close by with a better neighborhood school.
“and being across the street from one (personal thing).”
Not a legal thing right? 1000 foot rule?
2600 sq ft is a fabrication. This might be the building footprint, but even that is generous. You arent getting there with 16′ room widths. Perhaps he counts the 600 sq ft in decking?
New SFHs get about 1250 per floor, including the stairwell space.
“Is there a point farther west where being south of Armitage is preferable?”
Probably not, but he must have been thinking of someplace, no? And I didn’t really think about it beyond that.
“It’s not like there some other area close by with a better neighborhood school.”
True; guess I was thinking that the *only* problem I have with this triangle of B’town is the school issue and the the only problem with the particular lot is being across from the school.
Still hate, hate, hate the unit itself, tho.
“2600 sq ft is a fabrication. This might be the building footprint, but even that is generous.”
Being generous, the footprint is 1100 sf. So the 2600 *must* count the 600 sf of “private” (quotes b/c there are two #1 units and one GatorDeck, perhaps with a fence in the middle)
“Probably not, but he must have been thinking of someplace, no”
I assume he’s thinking that the area south of here is more developed commercially, which it kinda is, and you’d certainly be closer to stuff on North Ave.
“the *only* problem I have with this triangle of B’town is the school issue”
Dooode, LOT SIZE!!! Or are you in some hypothetical world where you’re not buying SFH?
“Dooode, LOT SIZE!!! Or are you in some hypothetical world where you’re not buying SFH?”
Well, that too, sure, but *locationally* I like the area. Would definitely need extra width for the 100′ depth, which I know is quite rare.
Looks pretty nice. I agree with the 20K credit being strange. Why not reduce the price? Maybe the seller works for a car dealership and has learnt a trick or two on pressuring buyers to move fast?!
After reviewing the listing and the likely fraudulent statements about unit size and ceiling height: (A) BLACKLIST!!!!; and (B) I revise my sale price guess down to $480k.
are credits a new way to keep value and still meet market pricing demands?
JJJ–
i’m not understanding why the 14′ ceiling seems fraudulent–the lens clearly distorts the rooms, and the similar unit (off-market) is also listed at 14′?
I miss listings that include a free plasma TV if closing before a certain date.
Anybody remember “buy a condo, get a car?”
I get the incentives vs. dropping price for a developer, who doesn’t want to have to discount all their remaining units, but what’s the incentive for offering a $20k credit vs. dropping asking price? Doesn’t this just make it more likely the listing price is over people’s search ranges? And doesn’t it increase the commission to the agent? What’s the benefit for the seller?
My condo isn’t selling so I am going to reduce it 4k? Really?
$479,920 + $89,985 = $569,905 / $600,000 = 95% financing =
WALK AWAY FROM THE DAMN THING ALREADY
SETTLE WITH THE SECOND MORTGAGE.
HD – If they walk away, couldn’t they lose all other liquid assets?
They’d probably be OK on the first mortgage because it is unlikely they would seek a deficiency.
The second mortgage is a bit trickier, but they could probably settle for pennies on the dollar. I’ve heard of plenty of cases of that. In theory, yes, if they sue him they could get a judgment and attach it to his assets, but in reality, anybody that finances 95% of a purchase price in 2007 probably doesn’t have any assets in the first place. And even if they did, how much could they have possibly accrued in the last four years during the great recession??
Along these same lines, I heard a story somewhere (maybe NPR) where some private investors bought up defaulted and unsecured second mortgage debt at less than 1 penny on the dollar and he said that he lost so much money on the deal that he would not buy that deal again.
“#Wicker on May 6th, 2011 at 1:33 pm
HD – If they walk away, couldn’t they lose all other liquid assets?”
“Along these same lines, I heard a story somewhere (maybe NPR) where some private investors bought up defaulted and unsecured second mortgage debt at less than 1 penny on the dollar and he said that he lost so much money on the deal that he would not buy that deal again.”
Really? If you cannot turn a profile at less than 1% of face there would be no credit collections industry. Period. Don’t they usually buy for at least 20 cents on the dollar?
By JAMES R. HAGERTY
U.S. manufacturing companies, long known for layoffs and shipping jobs overseas, now find themselves in a very different position: scrambling for scarce talent at home.
Large and small manufacturers of everything from machine tools to chemicals are scouring for potential hires in high schools, community colleges and the military. They are poaching from one another, retraining people who used to have white-collar jobs, and in some cases even hiring former prisoners who learned machinist skills behind bars.
Even with unemployment near 9%, manufacturers are struggling to find enough skilled workers because of a confluence of three trends.
First, after falling for more than a decade, the number of U.S. manufacturing jobs is growing modestly, with manufacturers adding 25,000 workers in April, the seventh straight month of gains, according to payroll firm Automatic Data Processing Inc. and consultancy Macroeconomic Advisers. The Labor Department’s jobs report on Friday is expected to show moderate employment growth in the overall economy.
Second, baby-boomer retirements are starting to sap factories of their most experienced workers. An estimated 2.7 million U.S. manufacturing employees, or nearly a quarter of the total, are 55 or older.
Third, the U.S. education system isn’t turning out enough people with the math and science skills needed to operate and repair sophisticated computer-controlled factory equipment, jobs that often pay $50,000 to $80,000 a year, plus benefits. Manufacturers say parents and guidance counselors discourage bright kids from even considering careers in manufacturing.
“Really? If you cannot turn a profile at less than 1% of face there would be no credit collections industry. Period. Don’t they usually buy for at least 20 cents on the dollar?”
Nah, depends on the debt. There’s plenty of defaulted/charged-off debt that trades at less than 1%. Depends on the type of debt, age and the governing law. You’d be nuts to pay 20 cents for stripped second mortgage potential judgment claims; you’d never get to the 50% recovery that would make the investment and the time worthwhile.
HD – Thanks. I actually know a few folks who are close enough with me that we share financial details. Three couples are in the situation of owing more than the second mortgage but with enough liquid to pay it off. Thus walking away would really translate to – just pay the debt you agreed to, at least for these people.
Hence the interest with recourse / non recourse and learning just enough to be dangerous at social outings.
have a good weekend.
“I heard a story somewhere (maybe NPR) where some private investors bought up defaulted and unsecured second mortgage debt at less than 1 penny on the dollar and he said that he lost so much money on the deal that he would not buy that deal again”
Anon – That might be true but at LESS than 1% I suspect that there is still room for some profit. My thinking is that the speaker was just using scare tactics to keep other investors away from these deals. If the average individual can walk away for 4 cents on the dollar they might take that bait. Especially if they can handle the first mortgage. They just wrote off a nice chunk of their equity depreciation!
Actually, it’s only 2 or 3 cents on the dollar, depending how geographically specific the accounts are parsed. The debt brokers act as middle men and charge a mark up to the end investors.
I don’t know what this guy did to try to collect money. Maybe he just sent some dunning letters and left it at that. Of course he got zero. I’ve noticed you actually have to file lawsuits and do the dirty work to collect the money. Maybe he bought at 1% of face value but after his costs and filing fees, he lost money.
I’m not vouching for the veracity of his statements, just that NPR told the story.
“Really? If you cannot turn a profile at less than 1% of face there would be no credit collections industry. Period. Don’t they usually buy for at least 20 cents on the dollar?”
“Anon – That might be true but at LESS than 1% I suspect that there is still room for some profit. My thinking is that the speaker was just using scare tactics to keep other investors away from these deals.”
Scare investors and as leverage against the sellers: “You know what a great operator I am, but I’m still losing money on our last deal for 140 bps; I need to get it down to 95.”
We are talking about chiseling weasels who talk people into paying off debts that they no longer legally owe (not talking about the hypo 2d mortgage here), so I don’t doubt that anything they say tot he press with their name attached is less than the whole truth.
I occasionally run into the debt collecting attorneys from Chicago’s major collection firms – and let me tell you – they’re not exactly making the big bucks trying to collect pennies from defaulted debtors. It’s like $500 a frozen account here, $200 a frozen account there; $150 a paycheck here, $78 a paycheck there…in some cases it’s as little as $25 a month.
I wouldn’t doubt that some MBA harvard trained hedge fund manager searching the financial universe looking for yield could lose money trying to collect money from deadbeats. It’s not exactly a passive investment, it’s more akin to showing up on the first of the month to collect rent, in cash, from your tenants. The overhead, the outlay of costs, the managing of outside counsel or collection firm to perform the dirty work…it’s all about being in the trenches.
“Is anyone else tired of seeing bathrooms with Granite looking counter tops and Marble looking tile?”
Why would anyone settle for procelain or ceramic tile at $2-3 psf, when you could shop around and find crema marfil for $5-6 psf, it’s worth it to spend the extra for the real thing, and crema marfil is found in timeless Italian hotels, it never goes out of style ever. Say the average bathroom like this needs 200 sf, the difference is $500 for real marble. Who ever thought those kinds of sinks were a good idea?
Bathroom countertop looks like emperador dark marble to me. Could be wrong though.
I’d pass on any unit that had a slider-door into the bedroom, inches from the bed, that opens on to a half-depressed “patio” immediately accessible to either sidewalk or parking lot. Ugh. Looks like a peeping tom could easily jump the little railing and peek in, or break in.
“Anybody remember “buy a condo, get a car?””
I loved the condo advertisements showing models as supposed (and possibly) owners. And those parties where they’d ply people with drinks to get them to sign over their financial future.
It reminded me of greek rush week: everyone’s doing it, all the cool kids, don’t you want to do it? LMAO!
There aren’t as many of these ads still around but one I saw recently was for Library Tower. Couldn’t find it from a quick search but saw it recently.
Some model dude in a tux next to some elegant looking model gal in a black dress. LOL Lennar homes must be real desperate to unload them things.
Much more entertaining than the WSJ brochures The Legacy has been including lately with increasing regularity, and again today.
“JJJ–
i’m not understanding why the 14? ceiling seems fraudulent–the lens clearly distorts the rooms, and the similar unit (off-market) is also listed at 14??”
The higher units clearly have a portion of the unit with very high ceilings – you can see them in the pictures for the listing on 1N. Both floors of 1N have relatively generous ceilings (I would put them at 10′ and 8′), but they’re not 14 feet by any means.
From the other photos and the approximate size of doors and furniture, you can tell that these ceilings are either 10 or maybe 11 feet, but no way they’re 14. On the main floor, the fireplace and the large print on top are near the ceiling, and that would mean the fireplace is about 7 or more feet tall and the print on top is nearly 7 feet tall. Does that make sense? In the basement, the ceiling is barely above door height, so they’ve maybe 8 feet.
The only portion of this place with 14 foot ceilings is the small alcove in the basement which is open to the floor above, so that 50 sqft or so has 14 foot (or more) ceilings. This listing helpfully includes a picture of that area and the tall windows on it (with a tree in the background), almost as if to say, “See, I’m not lying – this part has really high ceilings!”
“The only portion of this place with 14 foot ceilings is the small alcove in the basement which is open to the floor above, so that 50 sqft or so has 14 foot (or more) ceilings. This listing helpfully includes a picture of that area and the tall windows on it (with a tree in the background), almost as if to say, “See, I’m not lying – this part has really high ceilings!””
As I noted above, if that section is *only* 14′ tall, the doors are all midget doors, as that area is the full height of both the floors, plus the floor structure–it’s *at least* 18′. The “14′ ceiling” claim is just weird.
JJJ–i see what you’re saying, but no, that still doesn’t really add up–if the top floor has 10-11′ ceilings, and you’re saying the alcove in the front is the only place with 14′ ceilings, that makes the lower level a 3-4′ height. in any case, i doubt that it’s intentional/fraudulent–overall it seems like a pretty nice property with high ceilings and a good amount of space. and as someone who has their own house on the market, i’m considering a credit angle to keep the pricepoint up (out of consideration for my own neighbors with a similar unit), while still offering the buyer a good deal.
As far as the credit, on Fannie /Freddie loans if you put 5%-9% down you can get 3 % of the purchsee price as a “closing cost credit”. This can ONLY go toward closing costs and cannot go toward the down payment. For down payments over 10% lenders allow a credit of 6%. So for this $585k price, credits can be up to $17,500 ( so not enough in this case) or $35,100 respectively depending on DP. So the seller can give the 20k in credits with certain buyers for this purchase BUT if the closing costs are less than $20k (say $ 6-8 which is average for this price) the seller can only give a credit for that amount regardless. No money over the closing cost amount that does not cover closing costs can be given by the seller because it is a violation of RESPA. Most realtors don’t know this and advertise this anyway.
Well, that makes sense, if true. You can’t expect realtors to be familiar with major federal legislation on the subject of real estate transactions. Plus, wikipedia tells me it was only passed in 1974; give them some time to get up to speed, ferchrisakes.
“i’m considering a credit angle to keep the pricepoint up (out of consideration for my own neighbors with a similar unit), while still offering the buyer a good deal.”
Just out of curiosity- why do you care about the neighbors? You’re moving anyway. Do people who go into foreclosure think, “I’d better not do it because it will screw the neighbors?” I doubt it.
Prices have dropped everywhere so the neighbors are screwed anyway.
Pwillow is correct. If the credit is larger than the closing costs then the remaining credit comes off the purchase price. The problem with credits is that the appraiser and underwriter are going to scrutinize the appraised value as in most cases the closing cost credit is just a sign the price is inflated by the same amount.
People want to be sold and feel like the got a deal though. Closing costs are a huge burden when you throw them on top of the required down payent.
Unless he owns more than one unit so he is the neighbor himself or say his close family : )
“ust out of curiosity- why do you care about the neighbors? You’re moving anyway. Do people who go into foreclosure think, “I’d better not do it because it will screw the neighbors?” I doubt it.”
‘considering a credit angle to keep price points up’
if that don’t say a mouthful about the health of the market. Wow!
Or the realtors do know this and don’t care because once it gets to the loan stage where it matters the buyers are already invested in the place and it’s too late to negotiate so they accept less of the credit and basically get all closing costs covered which is stll good. So the seller actually ends up having to give less. Not saying just saying 🙂
“I loved the condo advertisements showing models as supposed (and possibly) owners. And those parties where they’d ply people with drinks to get them to sign over their financial future.”
Apparently they still do it in NYC. Seems as though every episode of Selling New York has one as a subplot.
“Nah, depends on the debt.”
I was just suggesting that in the commericial world we can sell bad debts around that level (15-20). If deadbeat customers are worth 20x mortgagors, that really says something.
“I was just suggesting that in the commericial world we can sell bad debts around that level (15-20). If deadbeat customers are worth 20x mortgagors, that really says something.”
(In general,) Commercial borrowers have assets even if they file a 7; individuals do not.
This place will be a tough sell considering this unit is on the market for $515K around the corner. The buildings look to be nearly identical.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2143-W-Lyndale-St-60647/unit-1W/home/12589998
Dropped to $550,000 today with no mention of the $20,000 credit.
Perhaps this is due to the Cribchatter Effect…