The Flips Are Back! A 3-Bedroom Basecamp Rowhouse at 459 W. Hobbie in Old Town
This 3-bedroom rowhouse in the newly built Basecamp River North development at 459 W. Hobbie in Old Town just came on the market.
It’s so new, I don’t yet have a picture of these rowhouses.
I debated what neighborhood to put this in as the original advertising for this development WAS called “Basecamp River North” but this listing says this is Old Town. I might have even called it Gold Coast.
It is north of Chicago Avenue but south of Division. It’s near the Old Town developments so I’m calling it Old Town.
This was a Ranquist and CMK development of 47 rowhouses. It sold out quickly about a year ago.
Construction has finished and they are closing now.
This is the first re-sale that I have seen come on the market.
It has two-levels with a 2-car attached garage on a 21×59 lot.
There is Italian Archisesto kitchen and baths.
It has polished and heated concrete floors on the main level with floor to ceiling windows.
This has the preferred townhouse layout with a half bath on the main level so you don’t have to go up the stairs to the bathroom.
All three bedrooms are on the second floor along with a media room.
Zillow and Redfin are saying this unit closed for $730,760.
It has come on the market at $919,000.
I haven’t seen a true “flip” since 2007-2008, i.e. where there was no renovation and no one has lived in the property.
If you missed out on buying one of these from the developer, will you pay an extra $188,240 to buy it now?
Katharine Waddell at Jameson Sothebys has the listing. See the pictures here.
459 W. Hobbie: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in May 2015 for $730,760 (according to Zillow/Redfin)
- Currently listed for $919,000
- Assessments of $233 a month (for lawn care, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 18×13 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 10×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 10×11 (second floor)
- Media room: 18×13 (second floor)
This is in Cabrini Green. Gold Coast, yeah right.
Or, you could make an argument for the Little Hell neighborhood I suppose, sure not Old Town!
This is quite the price premium. But with low interest rates and a lack of inventory, anything is possible. It appears absolutely nothing has been done to the unit and no one has ever lived in it.
I went to the Target near here the other day to get some new hand towels. I needed 4, but every pattern that I liked only had 2 or 3 available.
That’s a really boring story, but it’s not as boring as this townhouse!
If this was in Old Town, it would be a great deal.
It’s a mediocre deal as it stands. I’m not that familiar with this particular location, but it’s near downtown and as far as I’m aware, most of the riff raff is gone or will be gone soon.
Soulless location as it stands today. Buyers here must have vision and a lot of patience, but it should eventually pay off.
People do live in the unit, its a family with a couple of annoying teenage boys, not sure if parents are actual owners or renters but good riddance
This is not Gold Coast. Gold Coast is bounded on the West side by Clark St. This is near the old Cabrini Green projects. I would say 2 years ago it was a worthwhile purchase. But with the future re-integration of “affordable” & public housing (upwards of 60%) back in the cabrini green area, I don’t see this as an area with much future appreciation once the general public starts seeing the public housing units/people back.
The neighborhood is Cabrini Green
Literally right smack dab on the words on google maps
Ugh. They should not put affordable housing in locations where middle class people live. It’s destroying the city.
the “affordable housing” IS for middle class people, public housing is for the very poor, and market rate is for the taxed class
but its all just a scam to divide people and buy votes, never going to change
Affordable housing is for people making up to 60% of the median income of an area, I thought. For most areas, that means poor. You end up with single mothers in that housing, with teenagers who join gangs and kill people.
not sure what the requirements are, but 60% of the median income on the near north side would be what?
Either way, the mixed income communities like parkside have done pretty well containing the gang and crime problems, the only problem spot left in Cabrini is on Cambridge north of chicago where its still 100% public housing, rest of the homes are abandoned and going to be rebuilt soon as a mixed income community
People should live in neighborhoods that they can afford, instead of these artificially created “mixed income” areas. Why should someone else get for very little money, what I have to pay full price? Why should I subsidize other people? There are many places I would love to live, but where I can’t afford to live. I don’t feel entitled to get a lower price just because I have a lower income.
Jenny you sound like a sheltered little girl living in her daddy’s gold coast condo with all this inane talk about “put[ting] affordable housing in locations where middle class people live…[because]…It’s destroying the city.” What a bunch of pompous crock.
A good question, perhaps you should run for congress and then grill the HUD chief at your first opportunity with such logical questions
60% of Area Median Income in Cook County would be $46,140 for a family of four. The four-person family median income in Cook County is $76,900.
Also, incomes at the affordable level have been completely flat since 2002-that is 14 years of no income increases at this level and marginally positive over the past 16 years (1% increase).
This neighborhood is about as much in Old Town as Humboldt Park is “West Bucktown”. This is Cabrini Green, and at the very best can be called ‘ Near North ‘.
I go to the target nearby and used to live on Kingsbury a few blocks away – the area is still very much ‘in transition’. That’s my nice word for sketchy. But to be honest, the mixed income is not going to be doing anybody favors and i don’t see it improving while they maintaining the mixed income situation. Hope I’m proved wrong , because it’s very central and well positioned real estate.
A family of 4 earning $46k is poor in my book. How can you even afford to feed 4 people on that income? When I earned $50k a year, when I was first starting out, I needed my parents’ help to make ends meet and I was just trying to support myself.
I make about $80k now and still struggle at times. I recently had $5,000 of unexpected expenses come up. Thankfully, I have an emergency fund, but another series of expenses like that and my emergency fund will be depleted and I would have to dip into my savings and possibly ask my parents for help.
its definitely on the lower end of middle class but yeah…
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/05/11/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/
“Middle-income households – those with an income that is two-thirds to double the U.S. median household income – had incomes ranging from about $42,000 to $125,000 in 2014”
It irks me that everything is calculated on household income instead of individual income. There’s a big difference between a family earning $100k, where one parent stays home vs. a family earning $100k, where both parents work. The former would be doing well for itself, while the latter not so much.
“Why should someone else get for very little money, what I have to pay full price?
Because…liberals.
Dang Jenny’s annoying. That’s all.
“But to be honest, the mixed income is not going to be doing anybody favors and i don’t see it improving while they maintaining the mixed income situation. Hope I’m proved wrong , because it’s very central and well positioned real estate.”
Cabrini has been transitioning for the last 20 years. How long did it take Clark/Fullerton to transition? Or even Clark/Division?
@lookingtobuy – And how many mixed-income/public/affordable housing are their at Clark/Fullerton? Clark/Division?
“It irks me that everything is calculated on household income instead of individual income. There’s a big difference between a family earning $100k, where one parent stays home vs. a family earning $100k, where both parents work. The former would be doing well for itself, while the latter not so much.”
Look at per capita income by zip code.
@lookingtobuy – And how many mixed-income/public/affordable housing are their at Clark/Fullerton? Clark/Division?
It used to all be affordable and ghetto. 1950’s, 60’s etc…
I often what irks Sabrina more…when she comes home and finds that a post only got a few comments and pagehits, or when it quickly devolves into a petri dish of conspiracy theories and other bullshit.
This neighborhood will be transformed in the next 5 years as all the lots get built up with all new product. You can’t find a 2 car attached garage rowhome with a roofdeck and these finishes anywhere in the vicinity for this price. I bet it gets 875. Kudos to the buyers who had the foresight to buy here…
“white people because they are the ONLY group that is “honest or fair or even-handed.””
Fox News tokens are fair and balanced, too.
“This neighborhood will be transformed in the next 5 years as all the lots get built up with all new product.”
Yep. And when Oak *actually* goes thru as a real street (and maybe Walton, too), it will be a lot easier to get in and out of.
“This neighborhood will be transformed in the next 5 years as all the lots get built up with all new product.”
They’ve been saying that this neighborhood is going to be “transformed” since Domain was converted into lofts at 900 N Kingsbury. When was that? 15 years ago?
Sure- they’ve been building things here and there, including the North and Clybourn high rise and the Old Town mid-rises.
But there are still blue lights flashing on the street corners.
“I often what irks Sabrina more…when she comes home and finds that a post only got a few comments and pagehits, or when it quickly devolves into a petri dish of conspiracy theories and other bullshit.”
Actually- I don’t look at either one. I run this blog for myself. Always have. So if people show up- good for them. I like looking at Chicago real estate. I’m glad others do too. It’s a fantastic city with wonderful homes.
Just in time for the income discussion:
“A household income of $190,000 is in the top 5% nationally. According to the Social Security Administration data for 2013 (the latest data available), individuals who earn $125,000 or more are in the top 5% of all earners. Two such workers would earn $250,000 together. The 2.8 million households with incomes of $250,000 or more are in the top 2.5%.
I think it is reasonable to define the 12% of households earning between $125,000 (top 15%) and $350,000 (the cut-off for the top 1%) as upper middle class. This is around 14.5 million households, out of a total of 121 million households.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-22/what-does-it-take-be-upper-middle-class
As I’ve said before- if you earn over $100,000 a year in income (NOT household income) you are in the top of all wage earners. It’s not “normal”. Of course, we’re in a large city with very lucrative jobs. Our perceptions get skewed.
If you live in Southport, for instance, its easy to think that everyone is rich and living in a $3 million home but you just so happen to live in a very narrow neighborhood where that “myth” exists.
The city is huge. Drive all the way to the west side. You’ll see how the rich are really just a small segment of the population. Same for the suburbs. Drive west of Schaumburg along Golf Road or Irving Park Road. You’ll see that not everyone is buying a 3/1 for $500,000 like they are in Park Ridge.
Jenner is going to become Ogden so that area will explode. Jenner will rebrand and that will get all the yuppie and their yuppettes in there right way. That little area north of Chicago is a gun shot factory. Police are parked there constantly. Park side is full of low income housing. There is a lot of problems there. Plus the Marshall Fields homes are gun shot areas. What that area needs is a brown line stop at Division.
“They’ve been saying that this neighborhood is going to be “transformed” since Domain was converted into lofts at 900 N Kingsbury. When was that? 15 years ago?”
Yes but look at the grass lots now – they’re transacting, being sold to developers. The Basecamp team, after it sold out, tried to buy the next lot over for phase 2 but were priced out by someone else. After the Belgravia condos are built another building will likely break ground. I expect all those lots will be covered in condos, high rises, etc inside of 7 years.
Then it will be viewed as an exceptionally desirable and new area and the price/foot for Basecamp will be viewed as a steal.
The Jenner merger with Ogden is far from a done deal. There is little support outside of the Cabrini homeowners and social justice activists. Many Ogden families are strongly opposed and the alderman and CPS remain skeptical.
The open land adjacent to Basecamp is tied up in the Cabrini redevelopment plan. CHA is legally required to replace the 3,000+ low income units that were demolished. At the end of the redevelopment phases, more low income units will be in Cabrini area than in the bad old days.
“But there are still blue lights flashing on the street corners.”
This adds character to the neighborhood. Reminds me of watching “the wire’.
This is likely the only $900k property on a CPS Safe Passage Route.
I’m curious about affordable housing in the form of condos. How do the people who live there afford the assessments and assessment increases? What happens if there is a special assessment? Are the affordable housing people excluded from assessment increases and special assessments? It seems like a recipe for disaster.
I’m just thankful that when they gave out the affordable housing in University Village, that it all went to politically connected people, who immediately sold for a profit. Apparently, it was a big controversy and the city has since switched the way affordable housing units are allowed to be sold.
“They’ve been saying that this neighborhood is going to be “transformed” since Domain was converted into lofts at 900 N Kingsbury. When was that? 15 years ago?
Sure- they’ve been building things here and there, including the North and Clybourn high rise and the Old Town mid-rises.”
Just within a block of this property you have massive amounts of market rate construction (Next, Niche 905 and SL or sedgewick & Locust condos, which surprisingly are selling for more than this place on a sqft basis
There are a shit ton of new market rate condos (at least 3 8+ unit buildings) just north of Oak on Larabee and thats just the beginning
They just wrapped up 459 W division and theres something going up across the street to the north, not all market rate, but still
“At the end of the redevelopment phases, more low income units will be in Cabrini area than in the bad old days.”
That is not even close to true there will be about 90% less public units than in the ‘bad old days’
as for Jenny’s question
“How do the people who live there afford the assessments and assessment increases? What happens if there is a special assessment? Are the affordable housing people excluded from assessment increases and special assessments?”
They have their own association, not affiliated with the main association. If they can’t pay the assessments, they get forclosed on by the association just like any other condo.
I’m an Ogden parent and there was a big notice sent home with the children that they are starting up again about Ogden/Jenner. Consultants have been hired, committees are formed, etc. it will happen this time. No doubt.
Quote from the approved consent decree:
“The 3,020 dilapidated and dangerous Cabrini-Green apartments that once existed are being replaced with a minimum of 3,147 units of housing available to the same income group in the same neighborhood. CHA fully expects that the final number will be higher than this.”
there were like 18,000 public housing units in the “bad old days”
Sonies posted “They just wrapped up 459 W division and theres something going up across the street to the north, not all market rate, but still”
459 W Division is “43 market-rate units, 27 affordable units and 36 public housing units”.
“The CHA’s 2000 “Plan For Transformation” calls for a total of 2,800 units of mixed-income housing in the Cabrini-Green area. So far, 470 public housing units, 180 affordable units and 157 market-rate units have been built, according to the city.
The former Cabrini-Green housing development offered more than 3,000 public housing units when it was standing.
Developers are currently bidding on the first three parcels of land: the first site is eight acres….”
Gonefishin – I’m also an Ogden parent. I have inquired with CPS regarding the flier sent home and I still contend the merger is not a done deal.
Yeah no shit southbound they’ve been talking about building those replacement units for decades now, its a sloooooooow process, meanwhile hundreds of market rate rentals and condos are being added to the area
This is reasonable recent, and features a pic of basecamp:
http://www.chicagomag.com/real-estate/September-2015/What-Will-Be-the-Market-Fallout-From-the-Cabrini-Green-Settlement/
“This is likely the only $900k property on a CPS Safe Passage Route.”
this home isn’t even close to the largest one in the development so probably not
What’s the difference between affordable and public housing?
Is affordable a discount to the market rate and public just given away to those who qualify?
They should bring back the old rules for low income housing. You need to have served in the military, be married, and have a job. My dad’s parents lived in public housing right after WII and those were the rules to live in low public housing.
“What’s the difference between affordable and public housing?”
“Public Housing” has an income limit, the tenant pays a percentage of their (reported) HHI, and the balance (up to the ‘area median rent’–which may soon be zip code based) is paid by CHA/HUD.
“affordable” has an income limit (per city ordinance, 120% of AMI, based on HH size, on this schedule: http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/dcd/general/housing/2016renttables.pdf ), must be ‘affordable’ at 100% of AMI and 80% AMI (half at each level), and, if for-sale condos, a calculation of total monthly costs to hit the rent numbers set forth on the linked schedule.
I glossed over some nuances (not all of which I am clear on), but that’s the basic structure.
Jenny if you struggle for every dollar you earn at $80k a year even though you have a private high school education and a college degree; just imagine how difficult it is for a person who graduated CPS with limited reading/writing skills and no skills. If we don’t do something for the permanent underclass, what will they do? Our poor simply aren’t going to ‘go away’ or be poor somewhere else. Even with all the advantages in the world it’s still difficult to get by.
I always wondered, what happens if you live in public housing and then all of a sudden start making more money from working hard or whatever… do you get booted out?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2015/08/17/a-family-in-public-housing-makes-nearly-498000-a-year-and-hud-wants-tenants-like-this-to-stay/
“If we don’t do something for the permanent underclass, what will they do?”
Um, I think we see one likely outcome on the south and west sides of the city right now.
“The goal, they said, was to create diverse, mixed-income communities and allow tenants who are making good money to serve as role models for others.”
I love this line. They want people who are gaming the system to stay and serve as role models. I also love the implicit snobbery of this statement. Poor people just need role models and everything will be fixed!
Mc1:
I dig the Oxford, NE situation: there’s one housing project, with 20 units. So 10% of the public housing is taken by people who could buy a house in town for about 1x their annual income. Makes the NYC folsk with the $400k income seem almost reasonable in staying put.
“Poor people just need role models and everything will be fixed!”
Well, they need more than that, but if you live in a hood where the *only* people who seem to have a decent live are criminals, that does affect kids’ perceptions of life.
It’s not (or shouldn’t be, mostly) about the adults.
“there were like 18,000 public housing units in the “bad old days””
Not at C-G, no. There may have been 18,000 residents, but the peak unit count was under 4,000.
Here’s the full consent decree for the Cabrini nerds:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45459131/Cabrini%20Agreed%20Consent.pdf
If I had a public/affordable unit in one of the new Cabrini areas and I started making more money, I’d move out and either rent it under the table or air bnb it or keep it as a second home or whatever.
“Not at C-G, no. There may have been 18,000 residents, but the peak unit count was under 4,000.”
If that’s true, that’s 4.5 people per unit. That’s a huge number of folks per unit.
“If that’s true, that’s 4.5 people per unit. That’s a huge number of folks per unit.”
I think it was actually close to 5. It was always ‘family’ housing, and a lot of inter-generational households for a long time.
4.5 people per unit sounds about right. The main reason these people are poor is because they have oodles of kids.
“459 W Division is “43 market-rate units, 27 affordable units and 36 public housing units”.”
Who are the suckers that are paying “market-rate” in these and why?
“4.5 people per unit sounds about right. The main reason these people are poor is because they have oodles of kids.”
I know what you mean but I don’t agree that is the main reason they are poor. They were poor before they even had kids. There were poor as kids. Having kids actually increases there income through public assistance.
“Who are the suckers that are paying “market-rate” in these and why?”
Market rate is whatever someone will pay for the unit. These mixed buildings don’t command the same price as non-mixed buildings. However, some people just don’t know. They move to the area, get sold on “Old Town” and new/newish construction.
There was a study released that said that the chances of ending up in poverty are very low for people who wait until 21 to have kids, finish high school, and work a full time job. It seems like an easy formula to follow. Even if you start off at the very bottom rung, you’re probably going to be in decent shape as long as you don’t have kids dragging you down.
People without kids can live in a roommate situation until they move up in their careers.
“Who are the suckers that are paying “market-rate” in these and why?”
They are severly discounted compared to comparable properties in neighboring hoods so, obviously some people are willing to put up with the riff raft (sic) to live in a better location for cheap.
“They are severly discounted compared to comparable properties in neighboring hoods so, obviously some people are willing to put up with the riff raft (sic) to live in a better location for cheap.”
It’s technically not a better location if they are living next to housing projects with constant police presence and numerous shootings. But then again, maybe my definition of better location is different from yours.
Some of you better hope and pray that nothing every happens that puts you in dire financial straits.
“They just wrapped up 459 W division and theres something going up across the street to the north, not all market rate, but still”
So in 5 years all the blue lights are going to be gone along with the empty lots with junk on them, and I’ll be able to walk my dog outside at night at 11 pm and not be afraid?
Okay.
At least this place is secure – you would have to either go through a gate or jump the fence, and then break glass to get in!
“Some of you better hope and pray that nothing every happens that puts you in dire financial straits.”
At the rate things are going in Illinois we’re all going to be in dire financial straits soon, from the inevitable tax increases that will be needed to fund gold-plated public union employee pensions.
“So in 5 years all the blue lights are going to be gone along with the empty lots with junk on them, and I’ll be able to walk my dog outside at night at 11 pm and not be afraid?”
huh? You talking about walking through the 80% abandoned row homes? Why would you be walking alone there? Do you like to walk in alleys in Lakeview or LP at night? About the same sort of thing, but cabrini row homes at least have a 24hr police presence so, you make the call!
Also, all the stuff won’t be rebuilt for probably 10+ years, the city is just now taking bids for phase 1, and they pushed back the request for proposals another few months, I’ll probably have moved the hell out of this state before they finish all that
contingent – will be interesting to see what this closes for
Closed for 840,000
They flipped this for $110,000, huh?
Didn’t get as much as it first appeared when they listed it over $900,000.
The market is absurd, but at least it hasn’t gone completely off its rocker (only just somewhat.)
That’s still a pretty good return on your money for 2 years