This Historic McCormick Rowhouse Sells For Under the 2000 Price: 836 W. Belden in Lincoln Park
Someone finally snatched up the 5-bedroom rowhouse at 836 W. Belden in Lincoln Park.
See our February 2011 chatter here.
It sold for 33% under the 2007 purchase price and under the 2000 purchase price.
Built in 1885 in what is now called the McCormick Row House District, this landmark 4 story rowhouse had many of its vintage features intact including 3 soapstone antique mantel fireplaces and original pocket doors and shutters.
The kitchen had white cabinets and a mix of stainless steel, white and black appliances.
Built on a 20×114 lot, the rowhouse had central air.
Did someone get a deal or is the 2000 price now simply the market?
Samuel Tarara at Koenig & Strey Real Living had the listing.
836 W. Belden: 5 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, no square footage listed
- Sold in May 1995 for $630,000
- Sold in October 2000 for $960,000
- Sold in August 2005 for $1.325 million
- Sold in December 2007 for $1.4 million
- Originally listed in May 2010 for $1.295 million
- Reduced several times
- Listed in February 2011 for $979,000
- Sold on April 1, 2011 for $935,000
- Taxes of $14754
- Assessments of $110 a month (includes parking)
- Central Air
- 2-car parking on a driveway?
- Bedroom #1: 19×15 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 12×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 19×15 (third floor)
- Bedroom #5: 13×12 (third floor)
- Recreation room: 22×19 (lower level)
This person got an AWESOME deal. I can see this place being worth 1.5 million in 5 years.
Assuming that garage parking isn’t a big deal for these buyers (which it obviously isn’t), I’d say that they got a pretty fantastic deal. I’d be reluctant to call this the new “market,” as this is a rather unique property, given the lack of a garage spot (which is something most SFH or rowhouse buyers expect, and which pretty much any $1 million+ property features).
This place can comfortably accommodate at least 3 kids, all the way through college. Cheers to the buyers.
Congrats t the new owners you guys got a great home
I can easily see this place being worth 950k in 5 years maybe 970k in 10years.
Looks like a good deal. Obviously the SF makes up for the lack of parking (which in this area IMHO is fine) These remind me a lot of what I used to live across the street from: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1908-N-Sedgwick-St-60614/home/13345642
Similar SF and taxes, very similar area, 2-car garage though, but much higher assessments.
How easy is it to buy parking here? I cannot imagine a family with 3 kids not owning a car.
“How easy is it to buy parking here? I cannot imagine a family with 3 kids not owning a car.”
It came with some sort of parking, just not a garage.
You can get parking in the CMH garage over on Lincoln– ~2 blocks.
Had this house been in Boston, NY, SF, London, or any other viable city with a high concentrations of Victorian row houses, it would have sold for triple (probably much more) the selling price. The reality of living in Chicago is that it’s a car town and parking is king; I don’t think Chicagoans will ever move beyond that.
Congratulations to the new owners! You are now the official envy of every wide eyed resident of the above cities, and every location scout who can only dream of landing a place like this.
“Had this house been in Boston, NY, SF, London, or any other viable city with a high concentrations of Victorian row houses, it would have sold for triple (probably much more) the selling price. ”
And had it been in Detroit, Cleveland, Buffalo, or half a hundred other places, it would have sold for $2,250, plus assumption of back taxes, needed a new roof, and parking would have been easy on the vacant lot across the street.
“The reality of living in Chicago is that it’s a car town and parking is king; I don’t think Chicagoans will ever move beyond that.”
hear-hear!! I concur, and I’m not getting baited into a discussion about how it’s otherwise, and that people don’t need a car or can just use zipcar, etc. If you don’t have a car in Chicago, you are a dork (never get a date, let alone get married and have kids in the city, raise them here, etc.)
@anon (tfo) –
You missed ‘viable’ in my statement. Snarky Monday anon?
How do you do it with one or 2 cars for this place? Maybe, it’s the older couple that buys this place that just takes car service to the office downtown, and the occasional cab or 2, and has groceries delivered?
Does a family buying here wait it out on the street for spots to open up every time they have to park? Or rent a spot which is rare?
“You missed ‘viable’ in my statement. Snarky Monday anon?”
No, I didn’t miss it; I did not challenge the truth of your statement, just made the opposite point–if it were someplace other than Chicago, it could just as easily be worth less, rather than more.
Folks, either look at the previous Chatter or the listing itself. This unit has parking for two cars…it’s just that there’s not a garage (and the parking spaces are a little odd; but they’re nonetheless parking spaces). They’re not parking on the street.
So parking is off the alley then. Much better. So the previous owner took a $465K hit?
@Dan
‘…you are a dork (never get a date, let alone get married and have kids in the city, raise them here, etc.)’
This is just a wild ass observation, but did you ever think for a moment that not everyone wants to ‘have kids in the city’? I know you agreed last weeks that there were too many people in the world, but I guess that didn’t include your kids.
Don’t get me wrong I never said cars were wrong, as I have a 2 car garage filled with exceptionally nice foreign automobiles that I suppose one would expect a LP’r to drive. But, if my ability to date depended on the type of car I drove (or didn’t drive), I don’t think I’d wanna date that bad: think they call them gold diggers.
Thanks annoy, I just read the comments of the folks above.
“So parking is off the alley then.”
Nope. Read the prior for a good description.
‘…if it were someplace other than Chicago, it could just as easily be worth less, rather than more.’
There lies the rub. I’ve always associated Chicago with my list of ‘viable’ cities, and not so much the ones you listed. I’m sure a lot of people could live in a van down by the river for a *lot* less than this rowhouse.
Jay, it has nothing to do with gold digging. It is about convenience, taste, and ultimately compatibility. Not owning a car can seriously hamper ones choices and life style. Also depending on how much someone earns, their car is an indicative of their taste. I care a lot about the taste of my partner so if the dude earns enough and still chooses to buy an American car rather than something European, I take it as us having different taste which can later on can cause problems say when we need to buy a place, choose a vacation place and so on. I rather he has a cheaper German car than say a Hummer.
“There lies the rub. I’ve always associated Chicago with my list of ‘viable’ cities, and not so much the ones you listed. I’m sure a lot of people could live in a van down by the river for a *lot* less than this rowhouse.”
I associate them with the others, too, but the “this would have been X times as much in City Y” is a silly game. Most people in EsEff want a garage, too, if they can afford it, and it ain’t only the lack of covered parking keeping this place under $2.5mm in Chicago.
“This is just a wild ass observation, but did you ever think for a moment that not everyone wants to ‘have kids in the city’?”
I guess, but usually we’re talking about kids with regards to 5 bd. places like these and SFHs. There are lots of discussions here about CPS, schools, disdainful comments about people who flee to the ‘burbs, etc.
“But, if my ability to date depended on the type of car I drove (or didn’t drive), I don’t think I’d wanna date that bad: think they call them gold diggers.”
I never said you had to have “a 2 car garage filled with exceptionally nice foreign automobiles” like “you” do. (nice little form of display there jay, really impressive!) But one has to have a decent car in Chicago to date, then get married, and esp. have kids in the city. come on…
“But, if my ability to date depended on the type of car I drove (or didn’t drive), I don’t think I’d wanna date that bad: think they call them gold diggers.”
Gold diggers can be VERY good looking….
“Not owning a car can seriously hamper ones choices and life style.”
Miumiu (and the rest of the CC’ers), what would you miss out on in this city if you went carless? I’m very interested in this. Is it mostly trips to grandma’s house?
‘I associate them with the others, too, but the “this would have been X times as much in City Y” is a silly game.’
I don’t think it’s a silly game, not at all. I can tell you that the employees that work in the New York and London offices *do not* make that much more than the employees in the Chicago office, and that their cost of living is *stratospheric* compared to those that live here. Okay stop, I totally get it, Chicago ain’t London as there is no royalty getting married here, and this house will never share a the party wall with Madonna… I get it, it’s the midwest, I’m reminded of that whenever I read Dan’s posts. But, for a ‘viable’ city like Chicago (there’s a reason why we have an office here… it makes money, actually a nice sum of money, and we don’t have one in Detroit), the cost of living, especially living well, is a f**king *bargain* compared to the other ‘viable’ cities. If your goal is to have a nice job in a *real* urban setting (and you were lucky/worked hard enough to have found it), live ‘well’, retire with a bit of money (more or less these days, I totally get it), and you have no desire to chase the glamour spotlight of NY… then this ain’t a bad place to be; something that CC fails to understand. Aaaannnnddddd…. scene out.
“Not owning a car can seriously hamper ones choices and life style. Also depending on how much someone earns, their car is an indicative of their taste. I care a lot about the taste of my partner so if the dude earns enough and still chooses to buy an American car rather than something European, I take it as us having different taste which can later on can cause problems say when we need to buy a place, choose a vacation place and so on. I rather he has a cheaper German car than say a Hummer.”
ahhh so much, too much, were do i start, ahhh brain malfunction, see monty burns goes to the doctor and learns about the three stooges door theory for what happening to me
jay: I agree with your point. Plus Chicagoans can own and use cars here vs. NYC and London, that’s a huge, huge plus. Much more freedom comes with that.
“the cost of living, especially living well, is a f**king *bargain* compared to the other ‘viable’ cities. If your goal is to have a nice job in a *real* urban setting (and you were lucky/worked hard enough to have found it), live ‘well’, retire with a bit of money (more or less these days, I totally get it), and you have no desire to chase the glamour spotlight of NY… then this ain’t a bad place to be; something that CC fails to understand”
PS plus it’s easier in Chicago to see family. If someone, for instance, lives in a West Loop condo and wants to visit their sister and her kids in Lakeview, guess what? they go down to the garage, get in their car and drive there in 1/2 or less. Imagine the same thing in NYC where someone living in Greenwich Village or Lower East side or wherever, didn’t have a car, wanted to go visit the sister in Brooklyn or up on the Upper West side, they’d have to get on a train, bus, walk a bunch of blocks, deal with the scum on the public transport, can’t carry or bring food or heavy bags like in an SUV, etc. Pain in the ass in comparison
I don’t think that’s a accurate assessment of public transport in NYC. Yes, most folks of means to not take the bus in Manhattan(and few people should, as they’re really only used cross-town, i.e., east-west). But the majority of working professionals ride the subway everyday. It is vastly superior to the el (it really can’t even be compared). People who leave law firms, etc. at night use car services or hop in a cab. There are food stores within a block or two of everywhere one would want to live (all of which deliver). Most people in NYC don’t own, but rather rent, cars, for weekend trips to VT, etc. As for going from the UES or the West Village or whatever to, say Brooklyn or the UWS to visit family, if they don’t wish to take a cab or car service (perhaps due to traffic), they would hop on the subway and be there within minutes.
One of the reasons that Chicago is so much cheaper than NY is because our public transportation is such a joke in comparison.
You can go 100 blocks in 15 minutes in NYC on the subway. It takes a hour in Chicago. It’s a joke.
“You can go 100 blocks in 15 minutes in NYC on the subway. It takes a hour in Chicago. It’s a joke.”
100 Manhattan blocks = 5 miles. 5 miles = 40 Chicago blocks. It doesn’t take an hour to go from Lake to Sheridan or 47th on the Redline, or Lake to Pulaski on the Green or 5 miles of travel wherever.
Now, does it get you close to where you want to go, maybe not. But at least the train goes all the way to the airport.
Yeah, but we’re comparing Chicago with a car, to NYC and esp. Manhattan without a car. Manhattan from 96th to Battery Park is approx. 6 miles long by 2 miles wide. If you overlaid that on Chicago it’s be like from Roosevelt Rd. to Foster as far west as Ashland.
Going back the theoretical West Loop condo person who wants to visit her sister and kids somewhere on the northside south of Foster, let’s say near Addison, how can it be that someone would prefer to walk to a subway, lug whatever crap we all put in our SUVs, etc. ride public transport, walk again to the destination, etc. like it’d have to be done in Manhattan versus hopping in a car here? To me, it’s far easier/quicker to use the car and drive around the northside, and it’s far more convenient to drive during non-rush hour times too.
“One of the reasons that Chicago is so much cheaper than NY is because our public transportation is such a joke in comparison.
You can go 100 blocks in 15 minutes in NYC on the subway. It takes a hour in Chicago. It’s a joke.”
We did live carless in the city with our then 3 year old for a year. We didn’t miss out on anything that we couldn’t have rented a car or used Zipcars for. We only bought a car in the end because the Pace bus for my husband’s office in the suburbs was too unreliable.
But we did live in the Loop and had our pick of buses and el stops. If you don’t have that convenience then I guess it could be more of a problem.
Even now we have only one car. I can’t bear spending $3-400 a month for a car that would only get used for 20 minutes a day 5 days a week.
“You can go 100 blocks in 15 minutes in NYC on the subway. It takes a hour in Chicago. It’s a joke.”
The northside red line is just slow cause the tracks are over 100yrs old in some part. The brown line got done, the blue line did and the red line is next.
Also the idea that you need a car to live in chicago is ridiculous, having said that i dont have children and things may change when i do. But i can certainly say as a young professional living in chicago having a car is viewed more of a hassle than anything else.
The new owners clearly are OK with permits for two open spots in the nearby street parking. Every home has its pros and cons. Parking will always be an issue for resale — given the price point, I think most people expect and want a garage — but in return, the new owners have a beautiful vintage home that will be gorgeous once the kitchen/baths are remodeled. Hopefully, nothing too bad for electric, roof, etc. I hope they retain all of the beautiful vintage details that make this home so special. If you like vintage, it’s just gorgeous in person. Congratulations to the new owners!
“Also the idea that you need a car to live in chicago is ridiculous”
I’ll never be convinced of that, and here I am getting baited into this topic. Only truest of dorks don’t have cars in Chicago. We’re on a real estate blog, how can anyone do something as basic as even go look at real estate across this city without a car???? for chrissakes, even the Mexicans have cars here!
well dan most of us don’t live in rural trailer parks so we don’t really need cars, they are more of a luxury than anything
“100 Manhattan blocks = 5 miles. 5 miles = 40 Chicago blocks. It doesn’t take an hour to go from Lake to Sheridan or 47th on the Redline, or Lake to Pulaski on the Green or 5 miles of travel wherever.
Now, does it get you close to where you want to go, maybe not. But at least the train goes all the way to the airport.”
Seems like you’re attempting to suggest that the CTA is as fast as the MTA. Is that what you’re actually doing? I’m used to Chicago braggadocio, but this would def set a new standard.
You’re totally right about incompatible units of distance in NYC vs Chi though. I should have said it takes the same amount of time to go 200 blocks in NYC as it does for the train to show up in Chicago.
You’re talking about Groove and his NW side hood? Try and tell Groove or HD that Chicagoans don’t have, or need cars, or their wives could do without them. People without cars are like hicks that don’t get out and about, live in bubbles, are insulated and isolated from greater society, probably childless social misfits, etc. Cars = freedom Freedom = intelligence. If you’re on the wrong side of the issue, that’s your problem.
“well dan most of us don’t live in rural trailer parks so we don’t really need cars, they are more of a luxury than anything”
“The northside red line is just slow cause the tracks are over 100yrs old in some part. The brown line got done, the blue line did and the red line is next.”
The CTA renovations made them faster? That’s good news to me. I’m going to take the Brown home tonight and check it out. It’s been a few years. I’ll give you a report tomorrow.
please give me one good reason why I “need” to own a car and am hindering my “freedom” by not owning one
Let’s keep it real simple, in Chicago-yuppie/hipster terms, so practically everyone can understand: You have access to less restaurant choices as compared to someone with a car who can (spontaneously) hop in their car and enjoy Ethiopian or Peruvian cuisine, or go shopping and load really-neat bric-a-brac into their car.
please give me one good reason why I “need” to own a car and am hindering my “freedom” by not owning one
I don’t know about the car thing in the city…. I NEVER EVER take my car out once I am downtown. It is too much of a hassle. If I lived in a different part of the city maybe I would drive around – but not in the gold coast (or streeterville, wl, lp, or lakeview).
“Seems like you’re attempting to suggest that the CTA is as fast as the MTA. Is that what you’re actually doing? I’m used to Chicago braggadocio, but this would def set a new standard. ”
Are you being dense or what? Making the point that “it takes an hour” is wrong is not *anything close* to saying “it takes 15 minutes”.
I’m saying you’re not choosing a real comparison, which is unnecessary to make your point; it’s the same thing I pick on HD for–why use hyperbole when *REAL* facts are sufficient for the point?
Oh, and if Chicago is such an irredeemable cesspool with horrible services, why do you live here again? Better stay inside for the next 6 months, the beachfront wildings are starting up any day now.
“If your goal is to have a nice job in a *real* urban setting (and you were lucky/worked hard enough to have found it), live ‘well’, retire with a bit of money (more or less these days, I totally get it), and you have no desire to chase the glamour spotlight of NY… then this ain’t a bad place to be; something that CC fails to understand.”
Totally agree – Chicago is a real estate bargain compared to other large American cities that aren’t in Texas, and who wants to live there?
If you feel like you need a car to get some attention from the preferred targets of your seduction, you’re seriously doing something wrong.
“Only truest of dorks don’t have cars in Chicago.”
You have a ton of insecurities and they all make me laugh.
One more vote for Chicago = real estate bargain. One example: many friends from grad school that live and work in NYC. We make pretty much the same living. They are living in tiny apartments. Their rents are = to my mortgage payment. I live in house in nice neighborhood. When they visit and stay in one of my extra bedrooms they talk about how they’ve never heard of such a thing as a guest bedroom. Then we walk from my house to a restaurant as good as any in their NYC neighborhood. Then they talk about how much they want to get out of NYC.
One more vote for car not necessary in Chicago. I did it for four years. Cost of cabs everywhere, and rentals for long weekends, was less than cost of car and less trouble. Had to get a car for work related issues. It’s kind of nice to have, but I could easily go back to no car.
“You have access to less restaurant choices as compared to someone with a car who can (spontaneously) hop in their car and enjoy Ethiopian or Peruvian cuisine, or go shopping and load really-neat bric-a-brac into their car. ”
I have more access to any restaurants possible than I could ever imagine going out to in my entire lifetime, but if I did want ethopian(had it, gross) there’s LaSera at 1143 N. wells which is less than a mile from me, or hop on the red line real fast and hit up any lakefront ethopian places.
Peruvian, well Sushi Samba (LOL I kid) is a few blocks away, Rios Sudamerica and Rose de Lima are less than 10 minute cab rides away from me, or I could hop on the blue line and hit those up as well.
As for useless bricabrac, well since I guess my wife and I don’t feel the “american” urge to fill our house full of useless crap from China, I don’t see the benefit in shopping like that, especially when you can shop online, pay no taxes and have stuff shipped directly to your door and not have to deal with annoying people in big box stores.
“You have access to less restaurant choices as compared to someone with a car who can (spontaneously) hop in their car and enjoy Ethiopian or Peruvian cuisine, or go shopping and load really-neat bric-a-brac into their car. ”
I don’t know Dan, somehow I don’t see you dining at an *ethnic* restaurant, nor do I see you, oh I don’t know…. antiquing in Andersonville. I’m just saying…
You have access to less restaurant choices as compared to someone with a car who can (spontaneously) hop in their car and enjoy Ethiopian or Peruvian cuisine,
Isn’t that what cabs are for?
or go shopping and load really-neat bric-a-brac into their car.
Isn’t that what igocars are for?
I guess Dan can only drive to the army surplus store in his town to pick up his flags…
Not much if all your living is in the city. We live outside of Chicago and commute there on weekends. Chicago is our in town. However, given the structure of Chicago’s neighborhoods, I still believe if one has a family, having a car or at least getting access to one using zipcars and such is very convenient; say if you want to go to somewhere like Costco to stock on your paper towels, toilet papers and so on. Is it crucial? Absolutely not, but very convenient. Also the public transport in this country sucks specially for in between city trips. Try using Greyhound or Amtrak and you would see what I mean. Of course if one is traveling long distance air travel is an option, but if you want to say go to Madison for a weekend the public transport options are terrible here unlike Asia and Europe.
“Miumiu (and the rest of the CC’ers), what would you miss out on in this city if you went carless? I’m very interested in this. Is it mostly trips to grandma’s house?”
“I still believe if one has a family, having a car or at least getting access to one using zipcars and such is very convenient; say if you want to go to somewhere like Costco to stock on your paper towels, toilet papers and so on.”
When I didn’t have a car this was the thing people were always amazed about. How do I go to Costco, Target, etc.? I kept trying to explain them: I don’t. If I don’t pay for a car I can afford to pay an extra 50 cents for my paper towels. Nobody seemed to get what was obvious to me: owning a car to go to Costco makes a lot less sense than not owning a car at all.
‘If I don’t pay for a car I can afford to pay an extra 50 cents for my paper towels. Nobody seemed to get what was obvious to me: owning a car to go to Costco makes a lot less sense than not owning a car at all.’
Brilliant.
Although I do have a car, I’ve recently discovered how useful and easy a bike is here. It’s actually faster to ride to the store than it is to drive most of the time. I get exercise, I get to actually see the neighborhoods, I buy only what I need (have to carry the groceries back), I don’t worry about feeding the meters, I can make lots of detours (Intelligentsia) I normally wouldn’t if I were driving because of the parking… it’s a whole new perspective I only wish I would have experienced earlier. In bad weather I drive, but I crave the bike whenever the weather is good, or even when it’s just okay.
If I would have gotten this place, I wouldn’t have needed a car!!!!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1460-W-Balmoral-Ave-60640/unit-1/home/12744028
I offered full price, cash, no contingencies, and gave 100% cash (cashier’s check) deposit as an owner occupied unit and the bank didn’t even counter or come back to me to see how high I would go. They just gave it to another person. This is ridiculous!!!
I lived in chicago for 8 years without a car. Now I have a car for my household. My SO drives to work. The el to bus takes about 50 mins to lakeview in the morning, longer. Sometimes. The drive to lakeview at 8am is never more than 20 miins. I take the blue line downtown and it ttakes30 mins. Interesting enough, I can be at the skokie courthouse in less than 20 mins ddriving and in waukegan in 50 the same amount of time it takes to get to lakeview via cta.
Clio-Did you actually read the remarks about “This property is eligible under the Freddie Mac First Look Initiative through 4/12/2011.”?
That means: someone who is actually going to live there gets first dibs.
You can live without a car in the green zone but it is a pita to purchase large items, or move, or get to outlying neighborhhods at night without a car. I drove to west town to mmet a friend for dinner last week, and it took roughly 10 mins. The same commute via cta blue line including walking would have been roughly triple or more depending on how long I had to wait for the el, and I really didn’t feel like waiting for the train at 10 pm with sketched out characters sizing up my smartphone.
Ps I was also a lot younger when I lived wo a car. Cabs got to be expensive and I ultimately externalzed my transit costs by accepting car rides from friends and family. somebody always had a car around.
miumiu, I think that maybe you generalize too much about the views of other people based on your own situation. I would say that only a small percentage of the population (I would guess less than 1%, but I’m not really sure) maintains two residences at the same time. We’re not all trying to say that YOU don’t need a car, the point that is being made is that ONE* doesn’t need a car in Chicago.
(* I know that you are studying English (it’s excellent, by the way), so I wanted to point out that this “one” construction in English means “a generic person” – it’s more or less the same as saying “a person.”)
I really love cars and have more than I need, but in the past few weeks I’ve taken the Metra, the El, been on a CTA bus, been in a cab several times, a car service a couple times, flew in and out out of both airports (took the Blue Line to get to O’Hare) and rode some public transit in the places I traveled. We’ll also use an I-Go car when we need to move something big (I got some firewood a few months ago) – I felt like . It’s so easy to rent cars or use a car sharing service when needed that I think that most of the traditional arguments for whether you need to own a car or not are out the window. It’s basically a cost/benefit analysis and whether you like cars and how much you value the convenience of always having the same one available.
“I offered full price, cash, no contingencies, and gave 100% cash (cashier’s check) deposit as an owner occupied unit and the bank didn’t even counter or come back to me to see how high I would go. They just gave it to another person. This is ridiculous!!!”
At least the bank didn’t come back and ask for a higher price (which is what I’ve heard of them doing.)
“Then we walk from my house to a restaurant as good as any in their NYC neighborhood. Then they talk about how much they want to get out of NYC.”
Yes- but they never do do they? (never leave NY that is.) It is the same story with many people I know in San Francisco. When push comes to shove they say, “but the weather is so awful in Chicago” and then they continue to live in a place where a 425 square foot cottage is priced at $1.15 million (with no view whatsoever.)
To each his own. I feel very blessed to live in a fantastic city with some of the world’s finest architecture and culture at a fraction of the price of the world’s other great cities.
“Ps I was also a lot younger when I lived wo a car. Cabs got to be expensive and I ultimately externalzed my transit costs by accepting car rides from friends and family. somebody always had a car around.”
I think that made you a free rider.
“Clio-Did you actually read the remarks about “This property is eligible under the Freddie Mac First Look Initiative through 4/12/2011.”?
That means: someone who is actually going to live there gets first dibs”
Uhhh – I signed all of the affidavits stating that I was going to be an owner occupant.
JJJ strikes again. Actually Houston will overtake Chicago as the nation’s 3rd largest city within out lifetime. Chicago dropped in population from 2000, where as Houston, Dallas, and the I-35 corridor all grew. Inner Loop 610 in Houston isn’t that much different from the GZ, but it has far better weather, more greenery, larger lots, cheaper psf, hotter women, plenty of upscale bars, shops, and eateries, etc. all the pro-sports stadiums, and everyone can own a car too. It also has huge big-money areas like LF and Winnetka that are 5 minutes from downtown, not out in the suburbs where you need a train. It doesn’t have “the lake” though. It’s more international than Chicago is, with big money foreign expats in high-paying global Energy sector. And Harris County went for Obama. There’s alot going on in TX, not that I’d live there, but you’d have to be really obtuse, JJJ, to bash it which a dumb comment like “who wants to live there”….
“Totally agree – Chicago is a real estate bargain compared to other large American cities that aren’t in Texas, and who wants to live there?”
‘Yes- but they never do do they? (never leave NY that is.) It is the same story with many people I know in San Francisco.’
I’m not so sure about that anymore Sabrina. I know several people who have left SF for Portland and several people who have left LA for anywhere. It’s difficult to just leave any city where you have a job, but this economy is changing people’s views. I know more NY’rs that talk about quality of life now… I never heard that in the boom years when they thought they would ‘make it’, but never did.
Maybe I was projecting too much, as I have lived in Texas and really hated it.
Dallas sux.
JJJ thanks for the English lesson. I know what “one” means.
I still believe a good many folks in Chicago have cars because it is convenient for them if they have friends and family in suburbs, have kids studying in nearby cities, their commute to work involves routes that are not well served by public transport. I just mentioned that in my special case a car makes sense and I said it is not crucial to have a car if one leaves in the city and does not need to commute to suburbs and so on, so I am not sure why I got the reprimand : )
oops meant to say lives in the city, too many sleepless nights here : )
The weather is nicer in Houston??? It’s a sweltering sh*thole for much of the year.
Chicago numerous house restaurants with outdoor seating for 4-5 months of the year. Does anyone eat outdoors in Houston? Is there anywhere outdoors to cool off and jump in a relatively clean body of water?
The lack of zoning in Houston results in sewage treatment plants located immediately adjacent to wealthy residential areas. What a damn mess of a city.
excuse the typo — should say “Chicago has numerous restaurants…”
I love this row of houses. We live very close to here and walk by all the time. The parking is inside the depaul campus gates. The spots are big – lots of space and feel much safer with respect to anything happening to your car – than it does parking on the street. I know this from experience, unfortunately. Have had 3 incidents, parking right in front and around these places (but closer to, or on halsted) the last of which happened during the snowstorm where I had to take my car in to the bodyshop.
#”That means: someone who is actually going to live there gets first dibs”
Uhhh – I signed all of the affidavits stating that I was going to be an owner occupant.”
Maybe it’s karma payback for fibbing about it.
Or they figured it out some other way.
Could i live without a car? yes
Will i do it? heck naw
The groove family is down to 3 cars now, and shockingly we dont even shop at costco, sams club, or any HUGE box store. yes we could bus and walk everywhere and metra it to friends and fam in the burbs but we would live a different lifestyle.
I can see the arguments of careless in rivernorth but carless in my hood, even the most devote treehugging/repurposing/tight black jean wearing/ten speed riding(i know fixed gear but it looks like a ten speed) would spring for a prius if they lived in my hood.
even if i lived in a dense high traffic area i would still own one car.
Let us all assume/hope that DZ contributed to the gasoline bill when he rode in his bff’s cars!
Speaking of which: how much of your pro/anti-car sentiment is fueled (haha!) by the recent inflation of gas prices?
dan the main reason the population in texas is growing so much is due to the mexican immigrants. Im sure you’d love it there.
“Not owning a car can seriously hamper ones choices and life style. Also depending on how much someone earns, their car is an indicative of their taste. I care a lot about the taste of my partner so if the dude earns enough and still chooses to buy an American car rather than something European, I take it as us having different taste which can later on can cause problems say when we need to buy a place, choose a vacation place and so on.”
Mind blowing.
“When I didn’t have a car this was the thing people were always amazed about. How do I go to Costco, Target, etc.? I kept trying to explain them: I don’t. If I don’t pay for a car I can afford to pay an extra 50 cents for my paper towels. Nobody seemed to get what was obvious to me: owning a car to go to Costco makes a lot less sense than not owning a car at all.”
THANK YOU. People can’t get past their suburban mindsets of NEEDING a car for every mundane task, let alone the benefits of not owning one period.
Groove, some call them fixies, but I like “trend speed.”
Like almost everything in life, the benefits of owning a car in the city is, for the most part, psychological. If you use a car once a week, the costs of ownership probably outweigh its usefulness – if you actually do the calculations, it probably is cheaper to rent a limo for 3 hours a week than it is to own a car.
I just went through the calculations on my in-town. Even though it is paid off, I still pay 2400 in assm./taxes. I use it maybe 5 days a month. I could just rent a limo for 5 hours on the nights I go down there for the same cost!!! (also, the cost of losing interest on several hundred thousand dollars is ridiculous).
I think the bottom line is that people like cars, in-towns, etc because they like the FREEDOM to choose to come and go as they please. We are paying the premium for this feeling of freedom. That is why any rational discussion on this subject doesn’t matter at all.
“Even though it is paid off, I still pay 2400 in assm./taxes. I use it maybe 5 days a month. I could just rent a limo for 5 hours on the nights I go down there for the same cost!!! (also, the cost of losing interest on several hundred thousand dollars is ridiculous).”
How are your assm./taxes only $2400 if the place is worth several hundred thousand dollars?
Did you mean per month?
Material goods are not freedom clio they’re handcuffs. Don’t you know even the basic tenants of buddhaism?
“Groove, some call them fixies, but I like “trend speed.””
anonny,
i knew they were called fixies but thought its because hippy/hipsters would take old bikes and “fix” them.
I just recently learned that is a fixed gear hence the fixie moniker.
do you know why one gear is preferred/used? i know when i bought my GT the bike guy said it has like 20 gears for maximum benefit or something like that.
Material goods are freedom clio poverty is handcuffs. Don’t you know even the basic tenants of judaism?
One word: Rosebud.
“Let us all assume/hope that DZ contributed to the gasoline bill when he rode in his bff’s cars!”
Not me. I was responding to HD’s comment.
With kid(s) the benefits of a car go up a lot. In nice weather, my wife and I often used to wander around town on the weekends, generally walking and taking public transport, with maybe a cab at the end of the day depending on where we were. Can’t see it with a kid at all, especially as we don’t want to take our kid in a cab w/o carseat.
Another vote for biking. My door to door commute on the CTA is 45 to 50 minutes, depending on what time I leave. Car is 25-40 minutes, depending on when I leave. My door to door commute by bike is 40-45 minutes, depending on the wind.
So the bike is the cheapest and second fastest. Only marginally slower than driving. And it confers a health benefit (mental benefits too, depending on the wind).
“The lack of zoning in Houston results in sewage treatment plants located immediately adjacent to wealthy residential areas. What a damn mess of a city.”
Sounds like St Charles.
“do you know why one gear is preferred/used?”
1. it’s “cool”.
2. Nothing much to steal when it’s locked up, and very little to break, ever.
Yeah – anon- and those houses are much nicer than yours!!!!
@Groove:
The fixed gear is more about living on the edge. Some hard core cyclist think fixed gears are more pure or some other bullshit like that… ironic isn’t it. 😉
With fixed gears you have no brakes hence why the cyclist always go in circles in the middle of the intersection and hardly ever stop at lights/stop signs. They brake by increasing resistance in the opposite direction of the crank. Also makes it way easier to track stand (balance without putting feet down at stop lights, etc).
I got myself a huge blacked out beach cruiser that I ride about a mile to the El stop and all over town. Way more comfie than a mtn bike or road bike. All you need given Chicago is flat. Even has a coffee cup holder. Hardly ever drive in the summer.
I’d like to get a beach cruiser, or perhaps a large size P.K. Ripper/Floval Flyer.
“But, if my ability to date depended on the type of car I drove (or didn’t drive), I don’t think I’d wanna date that bad: think they call them gold diggers.”
Dan,
They call them “Trixies.” Shallow, money-grubbing airheads with a radar for rich traders. Once they get what they want (big engagement ring, 3 kids, designer bags, etc.) they’ll drop you in a second for a richer trader. Hey, it happened to a friend of mine.
“1. it’s “cool”.
2. Nothing much to steal when it’s locked up, and very little to break, ever.”
ha, nothing to steal, less moving parts less to break. i get it now! still seems counter productive to me.
Groove,
Re: fixies, people who ride them often cite ease of maintenance as one of the reasons. Also, from an aesthetic perspective, there is the lack of visual clutter from multiple gears, which I do think is a legitimate point.
In truth, though, I think that some folks ride them because they are trendy. Fixies have always been visible in San Francisco, as they are popular among bike messengers to show how hard core they are; but in the early 2000s, I don’t recall ever seeing a fixie in Chicago. The bikes became popular with hipsters on the coasts around 2003 or 2004, who took the style from messengers, and they have pretty much been proliferating ever since. This is just my take on things, others will probably disagree.
I think that fixies are a fashion accessory more than anything, gotta look cool and fit in with the rest of the cool kids, but if it gets more people on to bikes, then that’s not a bad trend.
“The fixed gear is more about living on the edge. Some hard core cyclist think fixed gears are more pure or some other bullshit like that… ironic isn’t it.”
if they wanted pure then they could go build/buy a bikes with a HUGE front wheel like the 1800’s 🙂
“With fixed gears you have no brakes hence why the cyclist always go in circles in the middle of the intersection and hardly ever stop at lights/stop signs. They brake by increasing resistance in the opposite direction of the crank. Also makes it way easier to track stand ”
WTF no brakes? like my beat up montgomery wards bmx huffy? if i have to have my seat belt on by law they should have real brakes by law, or at least real jeans by law 🙂
I should look into a cruiser for the hood, as i dont think the mtn knobby tires are productive on sidewalks and streets. in wisconsin and the dirt trail off river road the tires and gears are well loved.
thanks russ and anon 🙂
“if they wanted pure then they could go build/buy a bikes with a HUGE front wheel like the 1800’s”
That could be the next big commercial opportunity, open up a penny farthing store in logan sq, convince all the hipsters to buy them.
“I think that fixies are a fashion accessory more than anything, gotta look cool and fit in with the rest of the cool kids, but if it gets more people on to bikes, then that’s not a bad trend.”
that and DUI’s
agreed its a positive trend, (when the stay out of the way of my front end of my car)
I have used a bicycle as my primary transportation for about 20 years now, in three different cities. Based on this experience I offer the following re fixies: (1) about as sensible as riding a unicyle around town; (2) about as safe as riding a unicyle around town; and (3) 90% of the people you see riding a fixie on any given day were not riding a bicyle 1 year ago and will not be riding a bicyle 1 year from now.
“That could be the next big commercial opportunity, open up a penny farthing store in logan sq, convince all the hipsters to buy them.”
doode you bring the capital i will bring my tools.
BTW Thanks SFO-ORD for the cool history!
“WTF no brakes? like my beat up montgomery wards bmx huffy? if i have to have my seat belt on by law they should have real brakes by law, or at least real jeans by law”
No, your monkey wards bmx would coast, whether or not it had a coaster brake or any other brakes besides your keds. A bona fide fixie you slow down by slowing your cadence–if the wheel is moving, the pedals are turning.
“No, your monkey wards bmx would coast, whether or not it had a coaster brake or any other brakes besides your keds. A bona fide fixie you slow down by slowing your cadence–if the wheel is moving, the pedals are turning”
i get it now FIXED is the key word,
your right huffy would coast and pedals wouldnt move if wanted.
nice toss to the keds 🙂
@Groove. No brakes. Fixed gear means YOU MUST PEDAL when the bike is moving. There is no freewheel or coaster brake like on regular bikes. The only way to stop once you are moving is to push back on the pedals to create some kind of a resistance but it is very difficult to stop suddenly.
If you were to pedal backwards the bike would go backwards this is why they can balance easier when not in motion, kind of like a unicycle. Regular bikes either have a freewheel so no resistance when moving or coaster brake which stops the rear wheel from moving when you pedal backwards.
Isn’t there a kid’s website where you can discuss bikes and toys?
lamborghini = toy
Russ,
thank bro, you would think in the city and highly dense area you would like to have the ability to stop suddenly.
but i guess that logic is lost on people who agree to neck tattoo’s
uh, anyone who isn’t suicidal has at least a front brake. It’s very rare to see a fixie without brakes… Also a lot of what you see is ss, single speed, which does coast. And yes, it’s all trendy bullshit. Gimme brifters with a compact double any day.
“if they wanted pure then they could go build/buy a bikes with a HUGE front wheel like the 1800’s ”
good stuff!
Bob2, It seems like i regularly see fixies w/no brakes. but maybe it’s just a few i see over and over. have never ridden one but conceptually their appeal is hard to grasp.
Russ,
just found a blacked out cruiser, would you recomend sixthreezero as a good brand?
and for womens is that brand good too?
“They call them “Trixies.” Shallow, money-grubbing airheads with a radar for rich traders. Once they get what they want (big engagement ring, 3 kids, designer bags, etc.) they’ll drop you in a second for a richer trader. Hey, it happened to a friend of mine.”
Oh please I know a few traders and it’s not like they’re ignorant of this fact. Most traders I know get drunk then goto strip clubs at every opportunity and then make you cover for them with the mrs after the fact.
Oh yeah he was passed out on my couch…oh glitter on him? Ohh…uhh..well awhile ago a snow-globe broke on my couch and I guess you can never really get all that glitter out of there.
groove, look for brands sold at real bike stores. schwinn, trek, electra make cruisers off the top of my head. there is a bike tour place by north pier that sells their lot at the end of every summer if you can wait that long. 100 bucks for a schwinn. bob’s bikes. probably the same guy on here.
rei, has some nice ones
“groove, look for brands sold at real bike stores. schwinn, trek, electra make cruisers off the top of my head. there is a bike tour place by north pier that sells their lot at the end of every summer if you can wait that long. 100 bucks for a schwinn. bob’s bikes. probably the same guy on here.
rei, has some nice ones”
wifey hates our knobby tire beast for rides around the hood and to oak park. Russ’s rec for a cruiser sounded like a good idea so i called wifey told her she found the link to sixthreezero, schwinn.
schwinn is out as its a chinese company now. but any other rec’s i am down to research.
we will probably buy 2 cruiser in the next three weeks.
Hey you can hook a kids trailer thingy to it right? what about the kids bike seat, i think ours only goes to 40lbs, can that hook on to it?
“Oh yeah he was passed out on my couch…oh glitter on him? Ohh…uhh..well awhile ago a snow-globe broke on my couch and I guess you can never really get all that glitter out of there.”
Plausible, but no way she’s gonna believe that vanilla smell came from baking when you only have a hot plate in your studio.
might be easiest to just get some slick tires for the mtbs. they run like 10 bones a pop on line. save some coin and the hassle of trying to hook up the bike seeing.
bikeforums dot net has all sorts of people itchin to answer your questions the way clio lurks around here hoping somebody will bring up lambos or oak brook.
@GRoove… yeah, that is similar to what I bought. My wife has a cruiser too. The schwinn ones are nice. Google beach cruisers and there are quite a few options to choose from.
I think the brand I bought is Phat Cycles. I got it at the Schwinn shop on North Avenue in Oak Park. I think it was like $300 bucks. Perfect for leisurely rides around town and to the El. You can hook up the baby carrier to them easily.
“might be easiest to just get some slick tires for the mtbs.”
This for sure, a cheapo cruiser isn’t going to be an upgrade unless your current bikes are really low end department store junk. A decent quality comfort bike would probably be your best bet and will last you decades.
I really don’t think this was that great of a deal. We looked at this over the summer and guessed that it needed at least $400k to get it up to par with the other sfh’s in the range (not to mention the wet basement). The upper floors and bathrooms were complete disasters (as in looked like they were never renovated).
“The lack of zoning in Houston results in sewage treatment plants located immediately adjacent to wealthy residential areas. What a damn mess of a city.”
Houston.. Steak and Scotch at Pappas… off to Treasures… Best boys club in the whole damn US of A!!
“might be easiest to just get some slick tires for the mtbs. they run like 10 bones a pop on line. save some coin and the hassle of trying to hook up the bike seeing”
CH,
we were going to look into that route but our trail/off trail riding is a spur of the moment thing most of the time. would rather not spend the extra 30 minutes changing the tires, just want to throw the bikes on top and go!
second neighborhood bikes seem like the best option.
we will check out that website
thank you!
“yeah, that is similar to what I bought. My wife has a cruiser too. The schwinn ones are nice. Google beach cruisers and there are quite a few options to choose from. I think the brand I bought is Phat Cycles. I got it at the Schwinn shop on North Avenue in Oak Park. I think it was like $300 bucks. Perfect for leisurely rides around town and to the El. You can hook up the baby carrier to them easily”
Russ,
i think i may be going to the schwinn shop at lunch, is it barnards schwinn? i will swing by Rudy’s on irving and sportif by jeff park if traffic is good.
I googled up beach cruisers last night and man you can get some really tricked out ones. i think i will scoop up a “radio flyer red” color with white walls and chrome fenders, wifey says she wants purple with the white walls.
didnt find to many on craigslist, so we are going new.
“This for sure, a cheapo cruiser isn’t going to be an upgrade unless your current bikes are really low end department store junk. A decent quality comfort bike would probably be your best bet and will last you decades.”
Bob numero Deuce,
as you can tell i have no clue about bikes, but like 7-8 years ago we dropped serious coin on two mtn bikes both GT’s. wifey’s GT ended up being to big for her so we sold it to family at cost, then got her a even more expensive Trek.
we take them in for service twice a year and the bike shop kid is usually impressed so i guess they are good bikes.
they have taken huge beatings and keep on going. so for 8 years worth the money.
so do you have a rec on a quality cruiser in-line with the quality we have now?
phat cycle has some funky stuff and they look like respectable bikes.
electra, and trek also have cruiser lines. btw, schwinn and gt are owned by the same co.
“quality cruiser in-line with the quality we have now?”
Well, first you should know not to shop by brand, but component level. All frames (unless high end) are made in Taiwan, and none of the major parts are made in the US. So think of the bike companies as marketing companies slapping together a bunch of parts. In most cases assembly is done in China too, with the final assembly by your local shop. Don’t stay away from Schwinn, all the other companies are just as Chinese as they are…
I prefer aluminum frames, low end steel kinda sucks. Stay away from any sort of suspension. If you go with conventional derailleur gearing stay away from the low end stuff. Shimano should be at least 2200 (if it simply says Shimano it’s shit that isn’t even listed on their consumer website), although for casual bikes I really like internal hub gearing like Shimano Nexus. Wheels will be pretty cheap stuff, but last well enough, ideally 700c (refers to size). Brakes don’t matter, if they seem to suck get some kool stop pads for them.
Something like this would probably be a fine choice:
http://kozy.com/product/09-schwinn-searcher-nx8-51696-1.htm
Most importantly test ride anything for a good while. If you wanna be cheap and know what you want buy at bikesdirect.com.
good call CH and Bob deuce on the china thang. puts it in perspective.
bob deuce, i think wife is sold on the cruiser idea, “they look so freakin cool” as she says. we will test ride the hybrid you rec’d and a few other hybrids to see which we like better.
but trying to swing wifey away from the cruiser eye candy might be a rough one, and to say i am loving the look of them too. now only a test ride will be the deciding factor.
let you know.
and thank you very much for all the help and info guys!
http://www.linusbike.com/models/dutchi-3/
“http://www.linusbike.com/models/dutchi-3/”
Funny, I had a similar thought.
linus has nice looking bikes, arent really cruisers though. plus check out the babes on the phat cycle site.
http://www.phatcycles.com/
“check out the babes on the phat cycle site.”
You’re making Dan’s point.
Groove,
I have not been, but I hear that Nearly New in Lakeview has a large selection of rehabbed vintage Schwinns, made in the US. I’ve been meaning to make it up there to see if they have a good Varsity in my size.
Groove~
Be sure to post what kids’ trailer you ended up going with; MrB and I are looking to do the bike/trailer thing this summer as well.
You’re making Dan’s point.”
I cant keep up with him, last I read he was saying so. cali peeked in 1960 and now it’s a cesspool of illegals. Has he stopped wishing for a time machine so he could go back and be a scout there?