The Market May Be “Hot” But Prices Are Not: 2911 N. Pine Grove In East Lakeview
We last chattered about this 2-bedroom at 2911 N. Pine Grove in East Lakeview in September 2012.
See our prior chatter here.
It came on the market for the same price as it sold for about 2 years earlier- in 2009- at $359,900.
Most of you thought the apartment was beautiful and that the seller would be able to get the premium.
But 4 months later, it is still on the market and has been reduced $20,000.
If you recall, the building was constructed in 1917 and the unit has many vintage features from that era including wainscotting, ceiling medallions and crown molding.
The kitchen has white cabinets and a mix of black and stainless appliances.
The listing says the 2 bathrooms have been updated.
There is a washer/dryer in the unit but no central air (window units only.) There is also no deeded parking with the unit but there’s rental parking in the neighborhood.
The price is back to the 2003 level.
Are buyers now conditioned for a “deal” even in a market with low inventory?
Nikki Darin at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1500 square feet
- Sold in May 1996 for $103,000 (but this sales price appears to be too low for the mortgages at that time- typo???)
- Sold in December 2003 for $339,000
- Sold in July 2010 for $359,000
- Was listed in September 2012 for $359,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $339,900
- Assessments of $424 a month (includes heat)
- Taxes of $6052
- No central air- window units only
- In-unit washer/dryer
- No parking- but rental in the neighborhood
- Bedroom #1: 12×11
- Bedroom #2: 13×12
- Dining room: 22×13
I love this apartment. The price would not seem out of line for such a beautiful apartment in a prime neighborhood, but perhaps the taxes are a deterrent.
The lack of parking is also a problem for a lot of potential buyers. Even rental parking is tight in that area. Most people I knew in the area when I lived there years ago had parking spaces many blocks away from where they lived and fretted about losing them for some reason.
And there’ s no way to install CA without wrecking the appearance of the apartment, unless you install space pak.
The price is a sign of a stable market following a much needed correction.
“And there’ s no way to install CA without wrecking the appearance of the apartment, unless you install space pak.”
Is space Pakistan such a bad thing? Seriously, has anyone here done it? Is it as good as CA, nearly as good or not even worth the bother?
This is now showing as contingent and I’m not surprised.
Are buyers now conditioned for a deal? I don’t know that it is that as much as it is that buyers (myself included) are realistic about a places downsides and are not willing to overpay considering them. In 2006, when I bought I was willing to deal with a transitional neighborhood to get a nice place and accepted the prices that were being asked. Now, in a tougher market if a home has issues, (like the lack of parking or need for space PAC like here) I expect to pay less because of them.
If I find the perfect home that doesn’t have issues, I’ll be willing to pay the price….but what I’m seeing out there all has certain drawbacks and the prices therefor need to match.
“Are buyers now conditioned for a “deal” even in a market with low inventory?”
2003 pricing is not a deal. Substantially lower than 1 – 2 years ago or lower than everything else on the market today is a deal. Benjamon9 is right. There are a lot of homes on the market with issues that people overpaid for and they need more than normal price reductions. The good stuff is moving fast when priced right. Meanwhile, the overall price trend is stabilizing, with prices down only 1 – 3% in the last year.
“Is space Pakistan such a bad thing?”
Please tell me more about this space pakistan? Seems like there could be occasional issues with random IEDs or the device might hold you hostage with extreme cold temperatures… Not sure I would trust it.
Spot on. If priced right, a home will sell within a month, if not faster. Sellers that think they can still demand 2006/2007 prices need to lay off the reefer. Sorry, if you bought your home in 2006, more than likely, you’re going to lose a few bucks on it.
“The good stuff is moving fast when priced right.”
What is “priced right” then?
That’s the real question- right? It seems to be one that many, many sellers aren’t getting right.
How many people who bought in 2008, 2009, 2010 are willing to list below what they paid only a few years ago? I’m not seeing many list for anything under what they paid.
Housing continues to be a money loser even if you bought 5 years ago. Despite the market improvement, we are a long way away from people actually making anything (other than a few flippers and the rehabbers/renovators.)
“This is now showing as contingent and I’m not surprised.”
Really? With no central air and no parking?
Depends on what it sells for.
“Housing continues to be a money loser even if you bought 5 years ago.” I would correct that to “Housing continues to be a money loser especially if you bought 5 years ago.”
The reason you’re not seeing people who bought in 2008-9 selling is that they bought nowhere near the bottom and either can’t afford the loss and are waiting it out/paying down principal or are going into foreclosure. Those listing for what they paid are delusional.
“Please tell me more about this space pakistan?” It’s what the iPad calls it. And don’t even get me started on Space Palastinian.
Lots of people do space pac in Oak Park for vintage properties. Most of the people I know are pretty happy with it – it’s not crazy expensive and it beats window units.
This particular hood (within a few block range) has more big, beautiful vintage two and three beds without parking than perhaps anywhere else.
Space pak is great if you want to pay for it. I would, if I could afford this place at all. If I could, I wouldn’t begrudge another $20K or so for space pak.
But that’s ME. I am tight about stuff other people blast dough on without a thought, but will not stint if it something I really value. Most people buying places under $500K or so just will not pay for this. The likely buyer for this place is a couple making about $100K or rather more a year. They will probably have 2 cars plus a kid, so they might be paying private school tuition, too. They will likely be tightly budgeted and also want furniture and nice clothes.
A beautiful condo with some good photography to compliment it. Others might not like it but I love the slab of exposed brick in the kitchen. I think another price reduction is needed in order to start getting offers, parking sucks around the area and with Chicago summer-type weather lasting as late as October more frequently, it’s easy to take central AC for granted.
jm – “The price is a sign of a stable market following a much needed correction.”
Or the fact that the owners don’t want to take a substantial loss after catching a falling knife… How high does a dead cat bounce again, HD?
No AC? have a few fans running and enjoy the lake effect in the summer.
No dedicated parking? Everything you need is within walking distance here, Sheridan bus is at your doorstep and you are 10min from the LSD express buses at Belmont. Even with a kid you should only need one car… and use it sparingly enough that street parking wouldn’t be a hassle.
Considering that a few top notch vintage 3/2s I had been following in this area sold in the $380-450K range, without AC and without Parking over the last year, I would think that $320-340K for a big 2/2 seems reasonable.
[anonny] “This particular hood (within a few block range) has more big, beautiful vintage two and three beds without parking than perhaps anywhere else.”
The only areas I can think of where you could find similar properties would be Rogers Park, Edgewater, Hyde Park and South Shore… bit of a range in neighborhoods, but they seem to be where all of the remaining, intact, big 1920s apartments are residing.
Laura, I think 20k is quite a bit more than it would cost to do for a unit this size, but it probably depends on the actual layout of the unit. I’ve heard more like 10k, and that’s for a multi-level house.
“The only areas I can think of where you could find similar properties would be Rogers Park, Edgewater, Hyde Park and South Shore… bit of a range in neighborhoods, but they seem to be where all of the remaining, intact, big 1920s apartments are residing.”
And they generally don’t have parking?
Maybe no one has bought it because they’re offended that the listing agent would call a simple 2-BR top-floor unit a “penthouse” when it doesn’t even have any outdoor space.
I’ve lived in ELV, and it’s not enough to have fans when it’s 90 or higher. Now you don’t necessarily need to spend 10K on space-pac. A few air conditioners will do the trick.
“Sold in May 1996 for $103,000 (but this sales price appears to be too low for the mortgages at that time- typo???)”
It’s a typo. The mls had it closed 5/3/96 for $183,000 with taxes of $2,684 and a $320 assessment.
Just for shits and giggles, a simple comparison with 30 yr mortgage at 100% LTV including points:
5/1996 $183,000 8.31% 0.95 pts = $1,396 PI + $224 T + $320 A = $1,940 PITA ($2,866 in 2012 $’s)
12/2012 $335,000 3.60% 0.2 pts = $1,526 PI + $504 T + $424 A = $2,454 PITA ($1,661 in 1996 $’s)
It’s all about the debt.
Fans are useless when the temperature and humidity are both in the upper 90s
Properties w/o AC and parking are going to continue to languish when you can rent reasonably (and the rental options are much improved over several years ago) and have these amenities. This is particularly true of the mortgage deduction is eliminated or cut. There would seem to be no advantage to buying small properties w/o amenities that you are more likely to outgrow (a single person could be fine w/o a car perhaps but not a couple who might have a child someday). I don’t think this is indicative of the whole market. Prices for SFH and large condos (3 bed/2000 square foot in amenity buildings) are appreciating and will continue to even if the mortgage deduction is cut. You can’t rent these (at least not long term…no rental buildngs have apartments at this price and when they do they are priced at a premimium which makes owning look attractive) and are likely attractive to families who want stability and are less likely to move for a long period of time.
i live in ELV and considered a big vintage unit like this one when i purchased last year. i loved the unit but the lack of parking and CA deterred me. the unit i was looking at ended up closing around the 2000 price. i ended up buying another unit with parking and with CA. judging by the sale of the unit next to mine, which is the same layout as mine, compared with this one on Pine Grove, id say parking and CA are worth $35-50k in this neighborhood.
[anonny] “And they generally don’t have parking?”
It is kind of hit or miss. In areas where they tend to be used a lot as rental properties (Rogers and South Shore) parking is rare, but it seems that in Hyde Park or Edgewater most of the big units have at least a single spot tied to the property.
Example: Hyde Park, 3700SF, Top Floor, Intact details, on Madison Park, sub 500K, One parking spot. http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1234-E-Hyde-Park-Blvd-60615/unit-3A/home/13949242
“The reason you’re not seeing people who bought in 2008-9 selling is that they bought nowhere near the bottom and either can’t afford the loss and are waiting it out/paying down principal or are going into foreclosure. ”
The reason you’re not seeing people who bought in 2008-9 selling, is that rational people barring unforeseen circumstances such as divorce, relocation and so on do not sell a house within 3-4 years of buying one.
“Housing continues to be a money loser even if you bought 5 years ago. Despite the market improvement, we are a long way away from people actually making anything (other than a few flippers and the rehabbers/renovators.)”
I’m going to do a blog post some day on properties that have actually gone up in price. Library Tower for instance hasn’t done too badly when I checked it last. We closed on a unit there recently where we helped the guy buy it for $330K (and the developer may have even thrown in a couple of thousand dollars on top of that) and then he sold it a month or two ago for $354K. It’s not all gloom and doom. And yeah, I know that there is no profit in my example because of transaction costs.
Oh…and if you bought 5 years ago you really got hammered because that was damn near the peak.
“Lots of people do space pac in Oak Park for vintage properties.”
Chicago too. We just put it this past summer.
When did it become customary to refer to a top-floor unit with no outdoor space and no separation from other units a “penthouse”.
This is not a penthouse, it is a 3rd floor walkup, which would cause a lot of people to strike it off their lists despite its beauty. It’s not fun hiking to the 3rd floor – or really, the 4th floor as this place looks like it has an elevated 1st floor- with sacks of groceries, or a baby stroller, or when you are 65 years old with a bum ankle.
Hey there miumiu! Welcome back! I hope you’ll stick around.
And Laura, I couldn’t agree more on the “penthouse” designation. It’s sickening. If this is a penthouse, does that qualify the second floor of my two-story home as a “penthouse?” How about the top floor of a four-plus-one?
[Laura] “It’s not fun hiking to the 3rd floor – or really, the 4th floor as this place looks like it has an elevated 1st floor- with sacks of groceries, or a baby stroller, or when you are 65 years old with a bum ankle.”
Give me a break. How lazy and feeble are you that a third floor walkup is an issue? You cant handle two staircases? (2.5 with the elevated cellar) It makes me sick hearing all of the pathetic excuses people in Chicago come up with to avoid certain property types.
How many 65 year olds lug around baby strollers daily?
I actually think 3rd floor is the best. You get the most light, there’s no one walking above your ceiling and you get exercise going up and down the stairs. My kids are older now and we order groceries via Peapod. If I were moving to ELV, top floor would be a priority.
“Give me a break. How lazy and feeble are you that a third floor walkup is an issue? You cant handle two staircases? (2.5 with the elevated cellar) It makes me sick hearing all of the pathetic excuses people in Chicago come up with to avoid certain property types.”
Reminds me of all the people who complain about a 3-4 block walk to the train.
“Reminds me of all the people who complain about a 3-4 block walk to the train.”
Thirty-four blocks?? That’s like 4.5 miles–that’s take over an hour at any reasonable walking pace!!
…
oh, sorry. 3 or 4. Like, 10 minutes. Except that everyone (except Miumiu! Hi Miu!!) acts like it takes at least 35 minutes to walk half a mile.