The Renovated 1926 Brick Bungalow in Portage Park: 4311 N. Marmora
This 7-bedroom brick bungalow at 4311 N. Marmora in Portage Park came on the market last week.
It was bank owned a year ago and sold in July 2010.
Back then, it was a 5 bedroom, 2 bath house that needed work. It was missing its appliances and had no central air.
Today, it has been completely renovated with, according to the listing, new windows, electric and central heat and air conditioning.
The kitchen now has 42 inch cherry cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
The bathrooms have new travertine and mosaic tile.
Built on a 30×125 lot, the house is now 4100 square feet if you include the finished basement.
What are you willing to pay for “new” in Portage Park?
Kirsten Stumpf at Charles Rutenberg Realty has the listing. See the pictures here (if you have a redfin account you can click on the link to see the pictures of the 2010 listing- when it was owned by the bank.)
4311 N. Marmora: 7 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 4100 square feet (including the basement), 2 car garage
- Sold in January 1999 for $177,500
- Sold in June 2004 for $399,000
- Lis pendens filed in September 2007
- Bank owned in January 2010
- Sold in June 2010 for $168,000
- Originally listed on Jan 4, 2011 for $369,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $365,000
- Taxes of $4155
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 23×13 (2nd floor)
- Bedroom #2: 14×10 (2nd floor)
- Bedroom #3: 10×10 (main floor)
- Bedroom #4: 10×10 (main floor)
- Bedroon #5: 11×9 (main floor)
- Bedroom #6: 20×10 (basement)
- Bedroom #7: 10×10 (basement)
Being west of the park, I might expect this to get done at less than 300.
What’s that blue tank next to the hot water heater in the last photo? Some kind of holding tank or something? I’ve never seen that before and I’m curious.
about the property; nice middle of the road updates, nothing over the top, nothing that reads “crappy”. Dunno about the list price, let’s watch this one.
i’m curious why this had a 5K reduction after only being on the market a week. Marketing ploy?
probably to keep interest piqued in a new property [data shows if your above market you stay in the market longer]. plus they have play with the price and to avoid large carrying cost.
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Icarus on January 13th, 2011 at 7:34 am
i’m curious why this had a 5K reduction after only being on the market a week. Marketing ploy?
“
*if your above market “price”
Nice looking house and looks great. Well done rehab.
The only catch is that $365,000 in general is too expensive for the neighborhood. I understand that it was rehabbed and should cost more money, but, a $365,000 house with a similarly sized mortgage is still an expensive mortgage. The previous owners also had a mortgage in the $300’s and look where it got them – into foreclosure.
The rehabbers paid too much for the unit and now they have a high cost basis. Look at the 1999 price. Add some inflation. Add a little for the rehab. End up somewhere in the $200’s. Maybe.
Just because a house is rehabbed and updated doesn’t mean it’s affordable for the area, it just means that it’s updated and rehabbed. $365,000 is only slightly below the bubble price of $399,000.
The updated comps for the hood are all $80k to $100k cheaper too, and the non-updated comps are well for than $100k cheaper.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4206-N-Mason-Ave-60634/home/13473495
to keep it fair HD these people are claiming to have done a lot that could justify a large chunk of the price [electric plumbing kitchen]. Where as your comp did not. The only thing i don’t like is the basement support structure it looks like the original version, I dunno why they didn;t update that.
Re 4206: Well, it’s smaller lot, smaller house, and not as nice. And you’re comping sale price to list . I don’t know if that’s enough to justify the delta, and you may be right that this house is too fancy for the neighborhood (I don’t really know the area) but significant differences in your comp.
people on this site don’t understand the premium MANY people out there will pay for a completely renovated move-in ready house. It is ridiculous – I guess people are pretty smart and know that they have no time, energy, skill, money, patience to do it themselves. The “DIY” movement of the 2000s seems to be reversing 180 degrees!!!!
Maybe the blue thing is the sump pump?
“The updated comps for the hood are all $80k to $100k cheaper too, and the non-updated comps are well for than $100k cheaper.”
You can live in a lot of neighborhoods for over $350,000- even in “new.” I’m with you HD. I wonder how many people are looking in Portage Park at this price point? I guess we’re about to find out.
While it looks like a nice rehab in a nice sized home, the area and proximity to expressways is a major detractor. I am curious why the developer would have taken the risk when there are other more desirable bank owned sales. This would be a slam dunk straight East or straight North, but this far isolated is a stretch for me.
“You can live in a lot of neighborhoods for over $350,000- even in “new.””
That’s another way to look at it. Where can you live in similar house at $365K list? Not GZ, probably not Norwood/Edgebrook/Jefferson(?).
People have to get off the GZ thing. The city is BIG. It is NOT just 3 neighborhoods (LP, Lakeview and Bucktown/WP.) Many people don’t want to live in those neighborhoods (gasp!) and are actively looking in the very nice neighborhods like JeffPark, Avondale, Portage Park etc.
These all have lovely housing stock (you should go on the Architectural Foundation’s north side bungalow tour if you really want to be educated about these neighborhoods.) And now that housing is becoming more affordable many more people can move into those neighborhoods.
Norwood Park would have houses in this price range. Old Norwood Park would most likely not (not renovated, anyway.) Edgebrook is also similarly much more expensive. Albany Park would have houses in this price range.
“The only catch is that $365,000 in general is too expensive for the neighborhood. I understand that it was rehabbed and should cost more money, but, a $365,000 house with a similarly sized mortgage is still an expensive mortgage”
nail head brother, its probably is a great house and may be even a steal at 350k in consideration of the amount (and quality) of work they did.
but throughout the portage/dunning/schorch village/bungalow belt area there are so much to choose from and a non updated but fully livable bungalows are going from 200k-275k the ones that are in the 300k-400k range have a second floor addtion built.
Seems like this is a place for a young couple that wants to raise a few kids. So why here instead of the burbs?
“People have to get off the GZ thing. The city is BIG. It is NOT just 3 neighborhoods (LP, Lakeview and Bucktown/WP.) Many people don’t want to live in those neighborhoods (gasp!) and are actively looking in the very nice neighborhods like JeffPark, Avondale, Portage Park etc.”
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,
the kitchen as a nicer layout and IMO is better than so 2/2’s in GZ featured on crib chatter listed at 600k
Maybe the key here is the number of bedrooms? The reno added two, right? Owners might be interested in renting out basement bedrooms to make extra money to offset the Reno? Not saying this is a good idea, HD. But maybe that is how the renovator (who did a nice job) envisioned that the prospective owners of a home in this area might afford the place?
““People have to get off the GZ thing. The city is BIG. It is NOT just 3 neighborhoods (LP, Lakeview and Bucktown/WP.) Many people don’t want to live in those neighborhoods (gasp!) and are actively looking in the very nice neighborhods like JeffPark, Avondale, Portage Park etc.”
I also agree – from a social perspective. However, financially speaking, it would be best to stick to the GZ. The other areas are too risky right now.
“It is NOT just 3 neighborhoods (LP, Lakeview and Bucktown/WP.)”
Well, we can all agree with that. Other neighborhoods include River North, River West, the South Loop (a/k/a Moline), Streeterville, Wicker Park, and, of course, the Gold Coast. I’ve also heard rumors of a place called Andersonville. I’ve never heard of any other Chicago neighborhoods, however.
Portage Park isn’t a bad hood at all, its just really far from the loop/jobs and doesn’t offer much “walkability” which is what makes it different from green zone properties in that most of your disposable income needs to go to a car payment or two instead of a little nicer house in a walkable area closer to their jobs.
365k even though its a huge, brick, very well renovated looking house… might be a stretch. although who knows, maybe some well compensated city workers will “scoop this up” to raise a huge family here
I think the rehabber here did a good job, and I think they will get close to ask. This is a perfect example of an investor coming in and helping the neighborhood. Instead of having a dilapidated house dragging down the block you now have a very nice place.
Any ideas of how much money they put into this place?
““People have to get off the GZ thing. The city is BIG. It is NOT just 3 neighborhoods (LP, Lakeview and Bucktown/WP.) Many people don’t want to live in those neighborhoods (gasp!) and are actively looking in the very nice neighborhods like JeffPark, Avondale, Portage Park etc.”
Shh! Sabrina, not until I get my dream/forever or at least long term home! I don’t want these ubber smart cribbers getting the deals before I do. lol
“I wonder how many people are looking in Portage Park at this price point? I guess we’re about to find out.”
My first thought is I either want more house for this price point or this price to go down, especially given the distance to the Blue Line. [Honestly, proximity to the expressway evens out if you are within a few miles because…wait for it…you are driving anyway!]
But I also agree with Clio “I guess people are pretty smart and know that they have no time, energy, skill, money, patience to do it themselves. The “DIY” movement of the 2000s seems to be reversing 180 degrees!!!!”
While I’d like to believe that i could take a $168K home and make it this nice, I know that today I couldn’t and I would spend as much for the GC who knows what he’s doing.
The blue tank next to the water heater ($1500) increases water pressure throughout the house. The fact that the builder put it in makes me think he cared about the quality of the project. Everyone expect granite & stainless appliances but I see a builder putting money into the things people don’t know about about or understand, it changes my perspective of the builder and his work.
It’s a nice neighborhood and “quality” rehabs are hard to come by. Property should sell for between $330-$350K.
Clio is right that people don’t want to waste the time, but, this was not a $168,000 home as a foreclosure. The fact of the matter is that there are fewer and fewer foreclosures being released onto the market due to robosigning, backlogs and longer foreclosure timelines. Im sure there was competition for this. It went under contract almost immediately and when it fell out of contract and was relisted it went under contract again within days. And it sole for $19,000 above the listing price.
We’ll eventually see what this sells for but I’m not optimistic.
City workers to raise huge family is great call.
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a 7 bedroom house that was only a 2 up. That took some effort to make happen.
As a suburban kid I have to admit I know nothing about the neighborhood, though.
Schools any good?
“throughout the portage/dunning/schorch village/bungalow belt area there are so much to choose from and a non updated but fully livable bungalows are going from 200k-275k the ones that are in the 300k-400k range have a second floor addtion built.”
This is true, but there is a market for renovated homes in this area also (there definitely ARE plenty of buyers willing to pay a premium for no work, although fewer in these neighborhoods than the ones Clio is used to). Groove is right that most of the higher-priced ones have 2nd floor additions, but this one still has plenty of space and bedrooms, and looks to be a nicer reno than most.
Disagree that this won’t sell until it goes under 300. My guess is 325 or so. Put this a couple blocks over and it would be sold already.
Btw, I’m happy this listing led me to what’s got to be one of the few places in Chicago that’s been continuously listed since the bubblicious days:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4336-N-Marmora-Ave-60634/home/13474713
1074 days!!! Thought it was a redfin error at first. Compare it to 4311 and you can see it’s headed for another 3 years of market time, if it doesn’t go to the bank first.
roma –
well, it is listed by Marathon Realty. they’re living up to their name on this one.
nice rehab
well done
roma, for your amusement:
There are currently 763 active Chicago condo/TH listings that are 1,000+ days old. There are 27 over 2,000 days, most in OMP.
There are currently 127 active Chicago SFH listings that are 1,000+ days old. 1436 N Astor shows a market time of 2,517 days. OK, it was chopped up into 8 units and needs renovation to a SFH but it has been listed since 8/30/04.
Roma, I saw that house. If I recall corrrectly, the agent gave me the “I finally got them to come down on their first unrealistic price” look. It’s a estate sale and the family is trying to get what they can for a paid off home.
How are the schools here compared to Oak Park? For the money, I’d think someone (other than city workers required to live in the city limits) might rather be close to the blue line in a place like this: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Oak-Park/1156-S-Scoville-Ave-60304/home/13247269
“How are the schools here compared to Oak Park? For the money, I’d think someone (other than city workers required to live in the city limits) might rather be close to the blue line”
What if you have 4 (or 5 or 8) kids? Where do you put ’em? And the taxes are higher and that’s in one of the less desirable parts of OP.
But, yeah, MUST pick one of them, I’m going OP, too.
“How are the schools here compared to Oak Park? For the money, I’d think someone (other than city workers required to live in the city limits) might rather be close to the blue line”
The zoned school (elementary) for that house is Smsner, which is a great school.
The savvy realtors will delist and then relist a property with a lower price so as not to incur a high number with respect to the number of days listed.
There was a Bungalow that sold over the summer (I know I know, stale) but it only went for 305 and as I remember it was well renovated – open Floorplan coffiered ceiling etc… For 365 this is further out and may only appeal to those who HAVE to have a Chicago address. Schools are meh and no easily available public transit.
“Norwood Park would have houses in this price range. Old Norwood Park would most likely not (not renovated, anyway.) Edgebrook is also similarly much more expensive. Albany Park would have houses in this price range.”
I don’t keep really close tabs on Norwood Park but would be a bit surprised if there was something truly comparable at the same list. If there were, I’d be happy to conclude this is overpriced (especially if school were Old Norwood or Oriole Park).
“I don’t keep really close tabs on Norwood Park but would be a bit surprised if there was something truly comparable at the same list. If there were, I’d be happy to conclude this is overpriced (especially if school were Old Norwood or Oriole Park).”
norwood park in the hitch or onahan district will get you a good home in this price. not a 5 bedroom and shiny new like this but a darn good move in ready home.
MC,
good catch on the water pressure gizmo, those are not cheap and need its own circut breaker.
It shows attention to detail which i would assume roll throughout the quaility on the rest of the home. which is why for the quality of work this place might be a STEAL at 350k but it maybe on the wrong parcel of land.
does anyone know if luthern north closed down? (its the HS just east of this place.
side note, if you want top notch service go to the ace hardware on montrose right by here. before you even walk in they ask if the can help you, walk you to the isle you need, explain what you “actually need” (not what you think you need), walk the product to the cash register and load it to the car for you. awesome place!
You are correct Groove, everyone seems to be in agreement that all signs point to very high quality work by the builder. With all the crap put out the last few years, that brings a big premium.
does anyone want to throw out a rough estimate of how much money he put in to do this rehab. I wanna try to get a ball park idea of what it would cost for my place
Groove – Russo’s Ace Hardware is so great!! Nice call. I bought a house nearby that needs a lot of cosmetic work & they’ve been wonderful. The best part is that you walk in, tell them what you want, and you’ve got it in hand & are out the door in 5 mins. Magic!
That said, I have a lot of friends who are young parents looking to live in the Jeff Park / Portage area. While this property is still a bit rich, I know they’re willing to pay a premium for a nice house that’s 100% move in ready. I wouldn’t be surprised to see this go for 335-350 if the reno is as nice as the pictures make it look.
“does anyone want to throw out a rough estimate of how much money he put in to do this rehab. I wanna try to get a ball park idea of what it would cost for my place”
to hard to give you an estimate pertaining to you. i will say what this rehaber did is on a different margin than if you got a GC.
there is a huge diff in costs from a rehaber to a guy rehabbing his home. things that pro rehabber do is buy in bulk and uses over runs for other jobs. I tell a story here every once in a while here of in back in my labor days i showed up at a few jobs and saw the same bathroom in 3 different homes all done by the same guys.
a pro rehab will have a cousin, friend or a guy on staff thats a structural engineer. a GC will have the same, a cousin/friend but will be charging YOU full price plus his GC markup.
your best bet is to find people who hired a GC to update the home they live in to get a gauge of what it will cost you. what it cost this rehaber is irrelevant to your situation.
rachel,
if you need salt for the walk skip russo’s, crafty beaver (can never say that without giggling) has deals and even better ones between heavy snow days.
that said i drive all the way from riis park over to russo’s for many things even though i have HD and Lowes right by me. I swear their shaded grass seed is some kind of voodoo magic. (it the one where the use a scoop and put in a paper bag, thats old school)
classic house,sabrina.the price is kind of steep though.
really nice neighborhood,relativly close to the expressway.
the kind of person who will buy this will most likely be a lifelong chicago person who grew up in that neighborhood and wants to be near friends/family.folks shouldn’t compare this part of town to the ‘burbs.i remember that not all that long ago the irving and western area wasn’t considered all that great.and look how that went up in price.
will be interesting to see what it sells for.
and groove,another real good hardware store is on milwaukee just north of foster,i think it’s a tru-value.they’re really great in there too.
“does anyone want to throw out a rough estimate of how much money he put in to do this rehab. I wanna try to get a ball park idea of what it would cost for my place”
Here’s what we know:
He’s asking ~$200K over what he paid.
He turned it around in less than 6 months so he probably didn’t work alone.
We all agree that he did a nice job and doesn’t appear to have cut corners “The blue tank next to the water heater ($1500) increases water pressure throughout the house. ”
he probably has some connections and got some deals on the cabinets and appliances so I’ll guess he put around $100K into the place.
Ha ha, yes, totally familiar with the Crafty Beaver too. I always swear I’m going to get one of their t-shirts that say “I got wood at the crafty beaver”.
so with all the associated closing costs from buy and sell walking away from the house with about 60k profit after 6 months work.
hmmmm
$10K a month isn’t bad…and remember, my estimates are like my predictions for lottery numbers and sporting events, they don’t come with any guarantees 🙂
“People have to get off the GZ thing. The city is BIG. It is NOT just 3 neighborhoods (LP, Lakeview and Bucktown/WP.) Many people don’t want to live in those neighborhoods (gasp!) and are actively looking in the very nice neighborhods like JeffPark, Avondale, Portage Park etc.”
I couldn’t agree more. How dis this GZ term get started around here? I’ve only been reading for a few months.
It’s both a little offensive (in that it implies a dangerous area outside of some enclave, which is stupid and makes users of the term sound like they want to live in a gated community away from minorities) and useless (the supposed included neighborhoods aren’t necessarily the safest, nicest, best schools, whatever. It sounds like something an ignorant new transplant to the city would say, like “Chi-town.”
Yes, Groove, Luther North is still around (though I wouldn’t be surprised if their enrollment has dropped).
As for whether there is a large difference in schools between here and the Oak Park house mentioned by Danny…Irving is generally not considered the “best” of the OP elementary schools, and Schmeboo points out that Smyser is well-regarded by many (inc parents).
If one were to use the (patently absurd, but at least publicly available and commensurable) measure of “% exceeding standards on ISAT”, Smyser will often come out ahead of Irving. In fact, Smyser will generally be ahead of the OP district average, despite the fact that Smyser is approx 70% low-income (as defined by free/reduced lunch), while OP is 17%.
G: thanks for the amusement, I had no idea! I wonder how these stats would compare to those of the pre-bubble and bubble eras?
“Yes, Groove, Luther North is still around (though I wouldn’t be surprised if their enrollment has dropped)”
it must have been Notre Dame for girls i was thinking about. I remember CPS was looking to rent out the building and St. Pricilla’s on addison a year back.
“G: thanks for the amusement, I had no idea! I wonder how these stats would compare to those of the pre-bubble and bubble eras?”
Roma, here are the numbers of Chicago listings with 1000+ day market times for props that went off market (closed, cancelled, expired) in calendar year:
2010 attached 681
2010 detached 192
2009 attached 516
2009 detached 113
2007 attached 257
2007 detached 12
2006 attached 346
2006 detached 22
2005 attached 82
2005 detached 9
2004 attached 76
2004 detached 4
2003 attached 27
2003 detached 7
2000 attached 2
2000 detached 3
1998 attached 37
1998 detached 5
1996 attached 9
1996 detached 8
1994 attached 20
1994 detached 9
1992 attached 3
1992 detached 9
You won’t find something this nice in Old Norwood or Norwood proper.
Sorry but Portage is NOT Norwood Park for many reasons.
And yeah Russo’s is great.
whoa! obviously i would have expected the current crash years #s to be much higher, but not by this magnitude
are their significant possible confounds here–e.g. changes in the MLS reporting, # of total units listed, others?
“are their significant possible confounds here–e.g. changes in the MLS reporting, # of total units listed, others?”
I would wager that a significant number of them are new construction, and there was a lot less 3-year-old new construction in those earlier periods.
Also, the trigger–closed, cancelled, expired–is a period dependent thing–who, in 2006, couldn’t sell their place for 3 years since ’03, unless they were regularly *raising* the ask, versus the time since then, when to sell a languishing property, you would *have*to* lower the ask.
roma, good questions. Citywide comparisons are only good back to 1992 when a major MLS merger happened. The only other factor would be some distortions in condo market times in the late bubble years due to developers’ manipulations and/or incompetence in leaving units (like models) active while under construction as a draw for unlisted unit sales.
“Also, the trigger–closed, cancelled, expired–is a period dependent thing–who, in 2006, couldn’t sell their place for 3 years since ‘03, unless they were regularly *raising* the ask, versus the time since then, when to sell a languishing property, you would *have*to* lower the ask.”
right, but (if i understand you here) this points to something about actual market conditions, i.e., what we care about.
the others (mls mergers, changes in developer listing patterns) are clearly extraneous.
Can’t we actually break out new construction vs. non in MLS listing fields?
“Can’t we actually break out new construction vs. non in MLS listing fields?”
Not very effeciently and I consider it a glaring weakness in the MLS. I’ve suggested a “developer owned” field but the MLS is still a marketing tool, afterall. As it is now, the year built field is too difficult for many. GIGO.
“right, but (if i understand you here) this points to something about actual market conditions, i.e., what we care about. ”
Absolutely it does, but I guess, to me, the year in which the listings hit 4 digit market times is more interesting than when the sellers gave up. And, yeah, I know that’s not as easy a data point.
Yeah, it’s not as informative about a particular year in question since we don’t know the actual distribution of market times for the units. Still, since G’s count is only of closed/canceled/expired listings, there shouldn’t be double-counting between years. So, pretty remarkable.
“As it is now, the year built field is too difficult for many”
As it likely is for many vintage-lovers out there (or newcontructionistas), this is a pet peeve of mine, making quick searches much more difficult. Is it because of uncertainty regarding precise date? Couldn’t they just have ranges entered? I do realize that whole-building gut rehabs can lead to ambiguity.
It’s because of the low barrier of entry into the field. Age ranges? ROTFLMAO. You mean determining a year built and subtracting from the current year? Math is hard.
I couldn’t agree more. How dis this GZ term get started around here? I’ve only been reading for a few months.
It’s both a little offensive (in that it implies a dangerous area outside of some enclave, which is stupid and makes users of the term sound like they want to live in a gated community away from minorities) and useless (the supposed included neighborhoods aren’t necessarily the safest, nicest, best schools, whatever. It sounds like something an ignorant new transplant to the city would say, like “Chi-town.”
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good call on that one jjj.sounds a little pretentious to me too
It’s under contract so obviously someone bit.
@Jennifer, I cannot wait to find out what it sold for.
It sold for $367K and now has a for rent sign on the front lawn
” End up somewhere in the $200’s. Maybe.”
Or not…
The bottom must be in. A for rent sign on the front lawn! That’s hilarious. Investors will keep prices high!
Please someone! Call and find out what the rent is!
I will bet $25 that for rent sign is for the illegal basement turned rental.
I gave you guys of an example a while back of a friend of mine who bought a home over by belmont and central. his mortgage was like $1800 a month until he rented out his basement for $800 a month. so now his mortgage is lower than bobs rent.
he converted the basement to a two bedroom and to “get” $800 a month for rent in a illegal garden he put in granite and SS apps and a fancy pants bathroom vessel sink, all supplies bought at HOBO and all the work DIY.
his mortgage is now $1000 for a 4 bedroom SFH
@Groove, putting in granite and SS apps seems like overkill unless you want an inlaw unit in the future. I would think you would just go with the fancy pants bathroom and get a roommate. That would bypass the illegal basement rental, wouldn’t it?
“That would bypass the illegal basement rental, wouldn’t it?”
he has kids and a wife. i think she might be a bit miffed if he got a roommate 🙂
the fancy pants bathroom cost nothing all HOBO one offs and lightly damaged clearance stuff. the SS was bought 2nd hand and probably from a guy gutting his foreclosed home.
the portage and belmont-craign area is huge on illegal basement rentals.
MY BAD!! It was the 4015 N parkside property that had the for rent sign on it. We chatted about that one before this property 3 blocks north, but also in Portage Park.