The Tikki Bar And Jacuzzi Is Still Available in Southport: 1348 W. Addison
We last chattered about this top floor 3-bedroom duplex up at 1348 W. Addison in the Southport neighborhood of Lakeview in December 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
But it has been on the market for a year now with no takers. Back in December, many of you thought it was a cool place for a bachelor but that it was simply priced too high.
It certainly is the perfect property for the person who loves their outdoor space.
The listing says it has 5 outdoor decks including one terrace measuring 20×25 and a private rooftop deck measuring 1400 square feet complete with a jacuzzi and a custom Tikki Bar.
The kitchen has espresso cabinets and upscale stainless steel appliances. It also has 2 inch concrete counter tops (instead of the standard granite counter tops.)
There are 2 master suites and a home theater in the 2400 square feet.
It has all the other features condo buyers look for including central air and washer/dryer in the unit. It also comes with a coveted 2-parking spaces which will be helpful given the unit’s location down the street from Wrigley Field.
In the last year, it has been reduced just $20,000 and is still listed $79,000 above the 2007 purchase price. (The Redfin “last sale” price doesn’t look to be correct. I used the sales info from the public records.)
Will this property sell in 2012?
Richard Kasper at Conlon has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3W: 3 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2400 square feet, 2 car parking
- Sold in November 2007 for $800,000
- Originally listed in August 2011 for $899,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in December 2011 at $889,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $879,000
- Assessments of $330 a month
- Taxes of $11,684
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- 1400 square foot rooftop deck
- 5 decks total
- Bedroom #1: 16×13 (third level)
- Bedroom #2: 13×10 (third level)
- Bedroom #3: 16×16 (fourth level)
- Family room: 21×16 (fourth level)
A whopping 10k price cut. That should get it sold, right?!
Low assessments for such a large unit also beg the question of how strong the association’s reserves are.
Could throw some great parties here though, dude.
I pray that my husband never sees this listing… The hot tub and tiki bar would push him over the edge.
@Java – I either know your husband or someone just like him
Nice looking place but the neighbor’s back porch directly next to the master bedroom could be annoying if there are some frat boyz up all night drinking and such.
How many bachelors are living in a 3 bedroom? This looks like decent place for a younger family of 4 to live in that make about 350k combined. Obviously not a lot of families like that, but that’s what I see as the target audience. Certainly not a bachelor.
Not sure where you got 799 as purchase price but the builder was asking 799k and the home sold for 920k. The seller installed the tikki bar and hot tub post close as well as a smart home system that controls audio, HVAC, lighting, security all from a digital pad. Incredible home, best alternative to a single family home in Blaine as well as the entire north side. Attached heated garage parking and additional outdoor parking spot.
This typical buyer for a unit like this in 2007/2008 was a young bachelor or young couple with significant income usually derived from finance, insurance or trading or a combination there of. Many of those high paying jobs have disappeared. Don’t forget there is a $722k super jumbo mortgage on this property, so tehre is not significant equity.
Bear in mind this interesting listing history too:
Jul 26, 2012 Listed (New) $879,000 — MRED #08124084
Jul 26, 2012 – Delisted — — MRED #7
Jul 09, 2012 – Listed (New) * — MRED #7
Jul 09, 2012 – Delisted — — MRED #6
May 08, 2012 – Listed (New) * — MRED #6
May 08, 2012 – Delisted — — MRED #5
Apr 09, 2012 – Price Changed * — MRED #5
Mar 04, 2012 – Delisted — — MRED #4
Mar 04, 2012 – Listed (New) * — MRED #5
Jan 24, 2012 – Listed (New) * — MRED #4
Jan 24, 2012 – Delisted — — MRED #3
Dec 14, 2011 – Listed (New) * — MRED #3
Dec 14, 2011 – Delisted — — MRED #2
Dec 14, 2011 – Relisted (Reactivated) — — MRED #2
Oct 03, 2011 – Listed (New) * — MRED #2
Oct 03, 2011 – Delisted — — MRED #1
Sep 06, 2011 – Price Changed * — MRED #1
Aug 01, 2011 – Listed (New) * — MRED #1
Why would you need to make $350K to own this place?
This is a nice place, and you definitely could throw awesome parties here but only 20k in price reductions over a year does not show much of a rush to sell the place.
“In the last year, it has been reduced just $20,000 and is still listed $79,000 above the 2007 purchase price. (The Redfin “last sale” price doesn’t look to be correct. I used the sales info from the public records.)”
Couldn’t the difference between the public record sale and the Redfin sale be $114k in upgrades? Couldn’t the tiki bar, hot tub, concrete counters, cabinets, etc. make up the difference?
Either way, at nearly $900k I would want 2 garage spaces instead of one indoor/one outdoor space, not to be on a busy street and an elevator. Nothing suckier than paying over $850k to walk up all those stairs every day.
“Why would you need to make $350K to own this place?”
I just figured 2.5x income. Obviously, you can own it on much less. But I think 250k would be asking for trouble. So, let’s call it 300k. Again, it’s not just the mortgage by itself, it’s the “lifestyle” that comes with it. Nice cars, vacations, etc.
looks like they got rid of that large ashtray/cigarette thing you see outside of bars.
Perfect for a trust fund kiddo who works in sales
“Bear in mind this interesting listing history too:
Jul 26, 2012 Listed (New) $879,000 – MRED #08124084
Jul 26, 2012 – Delisted – – MRED #7
Jul 09, 2012 – Listed (New) * – MRED #7
Jul 09, 2012 – Delisted – – MRED #6
May 08, 2012 – Listed (New) * – MRED #6
May 08, 2012 – Delisted – – MRED #5
Apr 09, 2012 – Price Changed * – MRED #5
Mar 04, 2012 – Delisted – – MRED #4
Mar 04, 2012 – Listed (New) * – MRED #5
Jan 24, 2012 – Listed (New) * – MRED #4
Jan 24, 2012 – Delisted – – MRED #3
Dec 14, 2011 – Listed (New) * – MRED #3
Dec 14, 2011 – Delisted – – MRED #2
Dec 14, 2011 – Relisted (Reactivated) – – MRED #2
Oct 03, 2011 – Listed (New) * – MRED #2
Oct 03, 2011 – Delisted – – MRED #1
Sep 06, 2011 – Price Changed * – MRED #1
Aug 01, 2011 – Listed (New) * – MRED #1”
Gotta keep the listing looking fresh, even if it isn’t and we all know it……
Great looking condo with nice finishes, but at that price I’d rather buy a SFH in the area, and also not live directly on Addison. I think this is next to the Julius Meinl on Southport/Addison, across the street from Dags……quite a busy spot.
” I think this is next to the Julius Meinl on Southport/Addison, across the street from Dags”
That’s exactly the spot.
Still say that it goes under contract but now that summer is ending and they have not found that buyer it looks more like 700-750 vs my Dec call of 775- 800K.
Income of about $200K would suffice with plenty leftover for vacations and a nice car. I guess I don’t know what goes into the “lifestyle”.
“Income of about $200K would suffice with plenty leftover for vacations and a nice car. I guess I don’t know what goes into the “lifestyle”.”
No way. I have a family of four with around 225k HH income. There is no way I could support a 700k mortgage. No kids might be a different story.
“Income of about $200K would suffice ”
A $700k mortgage at 4.125, plus T&A is right at 28% of $200k. So, “affordable”, assuming no major school debt.
Income of about $200K would suffice with plenty leftover for vacations and a nice car. I guess I don’t know what goes into the “lifestyle”.
I guess if your lifestyle includes lots of ramen noodles this might work.
I don’t know what you do with your money, but I’m in a very similar situation and can afford it if I chose.
A $700k mortgage at 4.125, plus T&A is right at 28% of $200k. So, “affordable”, assuming no major school debt.
Exactly, though I assumed a mortgage of $680K (you won’t pay what’s listed, and no other debt. The only debt I would ever take on is a mortgage. So if you make $210K you’re at about a 25% ratio.
Low long-term rates might change the old ratios for what you can buy. These are not teaser rates but things you can have for term. A million dollar mortgage would run 40-50k in interest/year which probably puts it in the range of a couple making 250k/year. Which would be 4 times income. Easier to do if income is more dependable than questionable.
I have no mortgage and no car payments, but my monthly budget totals $8550. If you added a $3500 mortgage to that, that would exhaust my after tax income. That leaves zero room for savings, vacations or cars. That’s another 4k a year for 1 vacation, and average of 4k per year for a new car.
Restaurants 300,Kids 400,Groceries 1,000,Fast Food 100,Coffee 50,Alcohol 100,Gas 400,Clothing 400,Personal Care 150,Lawn 100,Internet 100,Phone 150,Electricity 400,Maid 200,Heating 400, College 2000, Taxes 1000, Home Ins 150,Auto Ins 150,Life Ins 250, Everything else 750
Chuk,
I’m impressed that you can pinpoint so easily where your money goes. That seems impossible for me to do. Most of it seems to go into a black hole. I might have to ban my wife from making trips to Target.
I charge almost every single thing I buy and I use mint.com and my budget tracks pretty close to that on the average month. Some of those numbers are deceiving because they are averaged over 12 months. Like clothes. $0 some months, and lots more during back to school time, etc. Heat is $800 in some months and $0 in others. etc. But the averages are about right.
“my monthly budget totals $8550… exhaust my after tax income. That leaves zero room for savings”
Whatever, BUT you listed $7515 in expenses* that includes $2k in college savings and $1k in taxes. So there’s something funny.
*assume the balance is hookers and blow.
“listed $7515 in expenses”
Stupid typo. Stupid. Sorry.
Rest remains.
“Stupid typo. Stupid. Sorry.
Rest remains.”
I’m confused.
“I’m confused.”
““my monthly budget totals $8550… [$3500 housing expense would] exhaust my after tax income. That leaves zero room for savings”
[your budget] includes $2k in college savings and $1k in taxes. So there’s something funny.”
Don’t understand how $12k/mo causes you to (a) exhaust your after tax income and (b) have no room for savings when your budget includes taxes and savings, and your monthly gross is ~$18.5k.
Why the budget item for taxes? You keep track of sales tax as a separate item?
Why is colleg savings not “savings”? It’s a choice to allocate like that.
“Don’t understand how $12k/mo causes you to (a) exhaust your after tax income”
225k gross = 12k per month after tax income
” (b) have no room for savings when your budget includes taxes and savings, and your monthly gross is ~$18.5k.”
See above.
“Why the budget item for taxes?”
Real estate taxes. 12k per year = 1k per month
“Why is colleg savings not “savings”? It’s a choice to allocate like that.”
Because its not “savings” to me. It will be spent to send my 2 kids to school. In addition, most of it goes into an account I can not use for anything other than college.
Anon, my guess is 2k in college isn’t college savings but paying student loans.
“Anon, my guess is 2k in college isn’t college savings but paying student loans.”
No, it is college savings for my kids. It will probably cost me 250k per kid for 4 year degree 10 years from now.
“Real estate taxes. 12k per year = 1k per month”
Ah. I think of it as part of the housing expense and, whether escrowed or not, part of the “mortgage”.
“Because its not “savings” to me. … most of it goes into an account I can not use for anything other than college”
Again, that’s a choice. It’s still savings.
“Restaurants 300,Kids 400,Groceries 1,000,Fast Food 100,Coffee 50,Alcohol 100,Gas 400,Clothing 400,Personal Care 150,Lawn 100,Internet 100,Phone 150,Electricity 400,Maid 200,Heating 400, College 2000, Taxes 1000, Home Ins 150,Auto Ins 150,Life Ins 250, Everything else 750”
Always relieved to find someone spending more on groceries than we do. Where’s travel? In everything else? Are you paid off on wherever you live? No maintenance budget? Averaging $800 on elec+heat seems pretty high.
“Ah. I think of it as part of the housing expense and, whether escrowed or not, part of the “mortgage”.”
Mortgage would be $3500 WITHOUT taxes and insurance.
“Again, that’s a choice. It’s still savings.”
I beg to differ. Many of my budget items are a “choice”. Regardless, it is money that I need to make and put aside to pay for college. To me, savings is for discretionary items. Taking a vacation. Buying a new car. Putting addition on house. etc.
So OK, let’s say that would leave me 2k per month in “savings”. I would have to spend my entire savings to spend my kids to school. The same problem exists. There would be zero left over for vacations, etc.
Are you going to argue that 401k savings are a “choice” for me as well? In that case, eating is a “choice” for me.
“Always relieved to find someone spending more on groceries than we do.”
Yeah, and 1k is often low. Was $1200 last month.
“Where’s travel? In everything else?”
Nowhere. That’s kinda my point. It would need to come out of “savings” and with that size mortgage, I would not have any. Same with car payments.
“Are you paid off on wherever you live?”
Yes
“No maintenance budget?”
That usually falls under “everything else”. That is anything that doesn’t have an explicit category, or isn’t expected. Had to put my cat to sleep couple of months ago, $500. Dog had to spend 3 days in hospital last month, $1500. New tires on car last week, $800. etc etc etc.
“Averaging $800 on elec+heat seems pretty high.”
Actually, it is probably too low. I am in the northeast, and I burn at least 200 gallons of oil per month from Nov-mar. Average of $4 per gallon. So, that is 4k right there. Also need another filling or so in summer (hot water, etc). My smallest electrical bill last winter was $325. My last electrical bill was $575.
I’d agree, benjamon. Saving $2,000 a month for college seems aggressive. Of course, if you make 250K a year and have four kids, it’s doable and logical.
“Actually, it is probably too low. I am in the northeast, and I burn at least 200 gallons of oil per month from Nov-mar. Average of $4 per gallon. So, that is 4k right there. Also need another filling or so in summer (hot water, etc). My smallest electrical bill last winter was $325. My last electrical bill was $575.”
Holy crap!!!
“Are you going to argue that 401k savings are a “choice” for me as well?”
If you don’t want to call it “savings”, then yes. You could choose to put the 401k savings and college savings into a generic “savings” pot, and then you’d have ~$35k/year (reduced b/c of tax hit, but still almost 15% of gross) in “savings”, even with the bigger mortgage. Allocation of savings is a choice.
“Mortgage would be $3500 WITHOUT taxes and insurance.”
Wasn’t arguing; just approaching differently, so didn’t understand.
“I’d agree, benjamon. Saving $2,000 a month for college seems aggressive.”
I have 2 kids. 2k per month = 24k per year. 10 years = 240k. I estimate I will need 500k total (250k per kid). It is by no means aggressive.
“$2,000 a month for college seems aggressive.”
$12k/kid/yr * 15 years is $180k + gains. As chuk noted, not necessarily enough to pay for 4 years of college. It’s not “aggressive”, unless one views paying for your kids’ private college educaiton as “aggressive”.
There are two things on Chuk’s monthly budget that seem extreme, the monthly savings for college and the utilities and food. I guess food and gas/electric are way cheaper here.
We average $250/month for gas/electric year round in a 3300SF SFH.
“Allocation of savings is a choice.”
My entire budget is a “choice” in that case. My kids could go to community college instead of private school. I could buy my suits at sears instead of brooks brothers. I could not save for retirement, and live on ramen noodles in my 60’s. But those aren’t the choices I am making. And they aren’t the choices of the average person that makes 225k per year. Which was the entire point. If you are buying a property for 900k, chance are you are going to be making similar “choices” to me.
“There are two things on Chuk’s monthly budget that seem extreme, the monthly savings for college and the utilities and food. I guess food and gas/electric are way cheaper here.”
My college savings is in no way aggressive. Trust me. Gas/electric are cheaper in CHI, but food isn’t. It’s not to say that we couldn’t cut that if we had to. But we like to eat good food. Steaks, seafood, etc. And again, it is a family of 4. Not sure what size your family is.
“We average $250/month for gas/electric year round ”
Just checked the last 12 months of bills–just shy of $3600 total.
chuk–is your water/sewer bill low enough to be negligible, or not? Pre-meter, ours had reached $800/yr.
Also, no cable?
“chuk–is your water/sewer bill low enough to be negligible, or not?”
I have a well.
“Also, no cable?”
Nope. Cut the cord. Netflix, Hulu, downloads, etc.
Here is the last 15 months of my electric bill:
http://oi45.tinypic.com/33y72aq.jpg
“My entire budget is a “choice” in that case.”
No, I’m just saying that it IS savings. You’ve divvied it into separate boxes, but it’s still savings.
It’s like the real estate taxes and home insurance–I think of them as all “mortgage/housing” expenses (even with no escrow), you split them into the components. Fair enough; but if you said your housing expense was ZERO, I’d ask if you lived in a church. You save $40k+/year, and it’s savings, even if you’ve pre-allocated the eventual spending.
“You save $40k+/year, and it’s savings, even if you’ve pre-allocated the eventual spending.”
OK, then I’d have no savings beyond what I am setting aside for retirement (20 years from now) or for college (10 years from now). That means there is nothing left to be set aside for vacations, car, new kidney, etc.
“Are you paid off on wherever you live?”
“Yes”
So if we are talking about whether cdc can afford it, wouldn’t he only have to support a mortgage that was sale price minus value of current home (less transactions costs perhaps)? The money from the paid off home should get rolled in, no?
“So if we are talking about whether cdc can afford it”
We are not, because I could sell my house and it would almost pay for this. We are talking about the average person making 225k that has to take out 700k mortgage ( that implies 20% downpayment, not 100%). Here is what I said:
“No way. I have a family of four with around 225k HH income. There is no way I could support a 700k mortgage.”
What I meant was, if I didn’t have my house paid off, but instead had to take out a 700k mortgage and make monthly payments on it, it would not be possible on my income.
“We are talking about the average person making 225k that has to take out 700k mortgage”
Then don’t we have to talk about the likely expenses of that average person?
“Then don’t we have to talk about the likely expenses of that average person?”
Perhaps even someone situated in the actual location of the subject property?
“Then don’t we have to talk about the likely expenses of that average person?”
We were. Other than mortgage expense, I believe my expenses are what the “average” person making 225k spends. Which is why if you add in the mortgage, it would exhaust my income.
“Perhaps even someone situated in the actual location of the subject property?”
I work in Chicago and lived there for a number of years. Really the only “location” variable in my budget is heating/cooling. And that’s only about $400 difference out of the 8500.
I forgot that food is cheaper here, we’ve spent time on the east coast, I just didn’t realize that utilities are that expensive out there.
We like good food too, we have kids.
” I just didn’t realize that utilities are that expensive out there.”
Nat gas is cheap in the midwest. Oil is expensive almost everywhere. And my house is around 4200 sq ft, so figure you have to add another 30% to your costs (although I don’t know how linear those costs are).
For Luxury Real-Estate, the ‘Year of Capitulation’
http://yhoo.it/OEcwOt
“Other than mortgage expense, I believe my expenses are what the “average” person making 225k spends.”
I dunno, seems like people feel there’s room to cut back. That plus the utilities differential might do it.
I also suspect you’re not really living like the “average” $225K person. And you’re not financially like that person bc you have a bunch of home equity. The fact that you don’t have a mortgage payment may affect how much you spend on other things. If you had a $2,500 or $3,000 mortgage, maybe you’d spend less on groceries.
My 3300SF doesn’t include a finished basement, which gets heat and electric. Not sure if you have basement as well.
“I dunno, seems like people feel there’s room to cut back.”
Yes, on college. Where there is no room to cut back. If anything, I need to be saving more.
“That plus the utilities differential might do it.”
If $400 a month is the difference for someone living in a 900k house, they have problems.
“I also suspect you’re not really living like the “average” $225K person”
I suspect I am living well below them. I drive a 2000 Explorer with 160k miles. My wife drives a 2001 Yukon with 130k miles. I mow my own lawn. My wife and I both work. We go on one “regular” vacation once a year. Florida, Yosemite, Chicago, etc. No exotic cruises, international vacations, etc. I save a lot of money because I don’t have a mortgage. That’s about it.
“I suspect I am living well below them.”
I don’t really know how everything shakes out, but I doubt the average $225K person spends $1K a month on groceries. I think that puts you in 90th+ percentile
” I mow my own lawn.”
What’s the $100/mo for then? Beer reallocation, so you don’t look like a lush?
“What’s the $100/mo for then?”
Lawn service that puts down grub control, fertilizer, etc. Also, I spend about $800 a year on mulch, so that is $66 per month.
” I doubt the average $225K person spends $1K a month on groceries. I think that puts you in 90th+ percentile”
Also family of four, also not economizing on groceries, not spending $12k/year on groceries. Not even close. Probably about half that. Probably spend more than $1200/year on booze, tho.
“I spend about $800 a year on mulch”
Good god. $2k/year, I could get all new sod every year and have someone mulch everything twice. And still have money left over to pay someone to mow.
“Also family of four, also not economizing on groceries, not spending $12k/year on groceries. Not even close. Probably about half that”
Ha, not a CHANCE. Funny how I am living it, yet people think they know better. Need to see my grocery receipts? Every week the bill is $250-300.
“Good god. $2k/year, I could get all new sod every year and have someone mulch everything twice. And still have money left over to pay someone to mow.”
The $800 is part of the $1200. $800 for mulch. $400 for lawn treatments. My house is on 2 acres. I use 20 yards of mulch each year.
I’m also in a family of four, and I agree with Chuk on the grocery bill – if you include cleaning products, diapers, toiletries, batteries for the kids’ toys, school supplies, and other odds and ends that go in the typical grocery cart, that stuff adds up. I was thinking $1000 a month was pretty darn good.
“not economizing on groceries”
So you’re the reason the la quercia prosciutto is always out at mariano’s.
“Need to see my grocery receipts? Every week the bill is $250-300.”
I have to say, I’m a little interested. Still, I don’t think anyone is doubting you spend that much (I’m not), just that it’s not average.
“diapers, toiletries, batteries for the kids’ toys, school supplies, and other odds and ends that go in the typical grocery cart”
I didn’t think cdc was including all of that stuff. Whether it goes in the grocery cart depends partly on where you shop.
“My house is on 2 acres. I use 20 yards of mulch each year.”
So your expenses for a 2 acre lot is comparable to someone who will buy this condo and have no yard maintenance other than what he pays in assessments?
I think the answer to this debate is some where between what Chuk and others are arguing.
“So your expenses for a 2 acre lot is comparable to someone who will buy this condo and have no yard maintenance other than what he pays in assessments?”
Nope. But again, it is only $100 a month. And my taxes are lower than Chicago. And I have no water bill. Etc, etc, etc. I think you will find the differences are basically a wash.
Note, there is no golf membership, gym club, etc. in my expenses. Sure, you can pick any individual budget item and say “I don’t spend that much” or “I don’t spend any on that”. But I bet there is a ton of other stuff that I DON’T spend money that someone in that income range does (like car payment for one). Greens fees. Scotch. Hookers. Coke. While my budget may not line up $ for $ to someone in same financial position, I bet you my total budget is equal to (or less than) the average person with that income.
Plus don’t forget you have to furnish the place and stock the tiki bar with booze and trendy barware. And there’s the hot tub maintenance!
$1000/month in taxes doesn’t sound cheaper than Chicago.
“Ha, not a CHANCE. Funny how I am living it, yet people think they know better.”
Funny how *I* am living it, too, yet you think you know better.
I wasn’t saying you’re wrong, just that we are also a non-economizing family of four who doesn’t spend anything close to that much on groceries.
“I think you will find the differences are basically a wash.”
Agreed. Apart for the already discussed utilities.
“$1000/month in taxes doesn’t sound cheaper than Chicago.”
Dunno. My house worth around $800k. Also, my taxes just went up 20% in this months bill (from 10k to 12K), so they used to be lower. Funny, they claim my house is worth 20% MORE than it was in 2006 when it was last assessed. I assure you, that is not the case…
I didn’t read through every single comment, so I’m sorry if this is a repeat, but I was told by the listing agent that they had two offers on it back when it first listed, and they took an offer which ended up falling through, and by then the backup buyer was gone. The listing agent also told me they’re currently negotiating an offer, but I have nothing to prove that. He says, she says. Big deal killer for someone spending this type of $$ is being right on Addison. Location in terms of proximity to everything is great, but once the Cubs games come along, they want to be off on a quieter side street.
“I wasn’t saying you’re wrong, just that we are also a non-economizing family of four who doesn’t spend anything close to that much on groceries.”
Maybe I need to correct that to be “at the grocery store”. Honestly, I don’t do the shopping so I don’t have a great idea what she buys there, just what is costs. Obviously more than just food. (Toilet paper, shampoo, batteries, etc etc etc). And I wonder if you track as closely as I do. I never did before, and had no idea I was spending that much. But in any case, there is NO chance you can feed a family of 4 on $500 a month in groceries, unless you eat out 3x a week. That is about $16 per day.
“Restaurants 300,Kids 400,Groceries 1,000,Fast Food 100,Coffee 50,Alcohol 100,Gas 400,Clothing 400,Personal Care 150,Lawn 100,Internet 100,Phone 150,Electricity 400,Maid 200,Heating 400, College 2000, Taxes 1000, Home Ins 150,Auto Ins 150,Life Ins 250, Everything else 750?
Most of these expenses seem in line. I would also note that $200 for a maid is also a choice. Have you looked into getting more energy efficient windows and appliances in order to cut down your utility bills? Maybe it’s just due to the square footage you have that skews it, and potentially having high ceilings. Grocery bills could go down if you do some gardening, but with 2 kids it can be a challenge to not spend a lot, especially when friends come over often.
“Beer reallocation, so you don’t look like a lush?”
And yes, some of that happens under “groceries”….
“Have you looked into getting more energy efficient windows and appliances in order to cut down your utility bills?”
Windows seemed not worth it, house is 14 years old. Appliances yes. We have high efficiency washer/dryer. I just installed a 21 seer 4 ton central air conditioning unit 2 years ago. That cut my summer electricity bill from 800’s to 500’s. Putting in closed cell foam in the attic in a few months (10k to do that). Should save me 1-2k per year. Looking to switch from oil to gas, but its not nearly as cheap as Chicago.
And yes, maid is 100% a choice. As is most of my stuff. But both my wife and I work full time. So, maid comes once every 2 weeks ($100 per visit). Cleans toilets, etc etc etc. She is here for about 6 hours each time, so it is well worth it to us. That is 6 hours one of us would have to do on the weekend. I’d much rather spend it at my kids soccer games, or relaxing.
“and potentially having high ceilings.”
Yes, ceiling in my bedroom is around 17 ft. My bedroom has its own zone on our AC system. Looked great when we were shopping for a house, but benefit of hindsight, horribly impractical. Rest of house is 9ft?
“especially when friends come over often.”
Yes, we often have friends over for cookouts and such on weekends.
“Maybe I need to correct that to be “at the grocery store”. … Obviously more than just food. (Toilet paper, shampoo, batteries, etc etc etc)”
My god, buying shampoo, batteries and paper products at *Wegmans*? Target/Costco all the way. And if everything from Target/Costco counts as groceries, then, no, I don’t come in under $1000/month. But that’s not mostly food.
Closest Target and Costco are about 25 miles away, so we only go about once a month. We use Amazon subscribe and save for many things. Like I said, I don’t know exactly what she buys there, but I am sure it is more than just food. I live in the suburbs, so our grocery stores are almost the size of costco. It’s not some corner store.
“Closest Target and Costco are about 25 miles away”
I didn’t know it was possible to be that far away from target. C’mon chuk, run a store locator search for us.
“C’mon chuk, run a store locator search for us.”
From target.com:
Distance: 28.9 mi
Time: About 32 minutes
Next closest:
Distance: 35.8 mi
Time: About 45 minutes
“I live in the suburbs, so our grocery stores are almost the size of costco. It’s not some corner store.”
As hard as it may be to believe, we have full-sized grocery stores in Chicago, too.
“As hard as it may be to believe, we have full-sized grocery stores in Chicago, too.”
I have worked/lived in Chicago for 18 years, I’m familiar with it. I was just saying that my stores were large stores, and as such, their prices aren’t too far off from costco/target. Costs me almost $20 in gas to get to there to maybe save $25. Not worth the time/effort usually unless I am in the area for some other reason.
“You save $40k+/year, and it’s savings, even if you’ve pre-allocated the eventual spending.”
In that case, everything is savings. I get paid on the 15th. My electric bill isn’t due for another 15 days. I have “pre-allocated” $400 to paying it when it is due. Is that $400 “savings” too?
“I was just saying that my stores were large stores, and as such, their prices aren’t too far off from costco/target”
Things are strange in the Tristate. Nothing close here, if you aren’t a coupon clipper and don’t mind storing backstock.
But then Costco and Target are both equally convenient for us compared to the grocery store options, so that’s a more than valid point. Hell, I wouldn’t do it for the time involved, nevermind the gas.
“In that case, everything is savings.”
Oh please, what do you call your 401k–retirement [blank]? Your 529 plan(s)–college [blank]?
In the plain meaning of “savings”, you have two categories of savings in your budget. You can call them something else if you like (just like I can call limes “stuccoed kumquats”) but that mean that anyone else should join you in ChukSpeak.
“In the plain meaning of “savings”, you have two categories of savings in your budget.”
Well, my taxes are only paid twice per year. I can’t afford the 6k it costs out of that months income when it is due. I set aside 1k per month in my savings account to pay them. When the 6 months is up, I have saved 6k to pay the taxes. The month before they were due, I had 5k in “savings”. Was that really savings? Not really sure how that differs much from putting away money to pay for tuition. It will be around 5k per month. There is no way I can pay 5k per month on my salary, so I have to put more aside earlier.
“The month before they were due, I had 5k in “savings”.”
I’ll go a step further absurd: I can’t afford to buy my house all at once, so I set aside money monthly, that earns a negative interest rate. Is that savings?
I reiterate my question, in a different form: Have you asked your 529 plan provider to redact the “Savings” from “College Savings Plan” on all documentation available to you? And the 401k admin redacted “savings” from “retirement savings account” or “401k savings plan”?
Or are you using the Private Colleges 529 Plan, which really is a modified pre-payment plan?
“Or are you using the Private Colleges 529 Plan, which really is a modified pre-payment plan?”
I’m not, but I was going to mention that. Now, let’s have a discussion on the difference between leasing a car vs buying one…
#3E (adjacent penthouse) sold for 760k last year. Same exact upgrades, as I walked the property myself last year. Actually, 3E was a little more family friendly, as #3W has clearly been staged to attract a different buyer. Either way, regardless of contracted sales price, this place will NEVER appraise for more than 760K. So proceed with that bit of information….
CDC: Under your definition, there’s no such thing as savings. Everything you don’t currently spend you presumably plan to spend in the future, for you, your kids, charity, your kids inheritance, whatev. You have no savings, right? Bc it’s going to go to something eventually?
Savings is current income less current consumption for however long a period you want to look at it. Yes if you look at a long enough period maybe there’s no savings, but that kinda defeats the purpose.
Right. It is all splitting hairs. What I meant was “there would be nothing left after paying my monthly bills and saving for retirement and college.” I referred to that “missing surplus” as “savings”. Then it became a long drawn out discussion on what “savings” were. But I think everyone knew what I meant from the first post.
“Right. It is all splitting hairs.”
No, there is a meaningful defn of savings. If you look at it over sensible time periods, it tells you something. If you look at it over a day or a lifetime, it doesn’t tell you v much.
I don’t think @fo would have had a beef if you had said saving $X is not enough bc it would only pay for college (or part of retirement or whatev), and I need to save $2X to pay for everything I’ll need in the future. Rather than saying I’m not saving at all, bc what I am saving is going toward future consumption.
Golf clap to chuck for being so game about going through all the background and details (and, uh, proximity to Target).
Proved his point nicely (though I didn’t need convincing, admittedly).
It would be nice to remind us again how much heating oil sucks compared to nat gas in a few months, though, when we can appreciate it more . . .
“if you had said saving $X is not enough bc it would only pay for college (or part of retirement or whatev), and I need to save $2X to pay for everything I’ll need in the future. ”
“That leaves zero room for savings, vacations or cars.”
Let’s change that to:
“That leaves zero room to save for vacations or cars, etc.”
See, all better now.
“That leaves zero room to save for vacations or cars, etc.”
Savings of only $2K is not enough for vacations or cars, etc.
Retirement and college are hardly “etc.”
So what you really mean is:
“Savings of only $2K is not enough for vacations, cars, retirement, college, etc.”. I merely separated the categories out based on importance to me. And the fact that that money is not easily accessible to me.
Which was what I said in my original post. 225k is not enough income to carry a 700k mortgage.
“I don’t think @fo would have had a beef if you had said saving $X is not enough bc it would only pay for college (or part of retirement or whatev)”
Once I understood the whole thing, I basically agreed, and the rest of it was about his choice of allocation being a choice (or not), and what that implies about everything else.
Agree its “not enough” to fund college+retirement+vacays+new cars.
“$12k/kid/yr * 15 years is $180k + gains. As chuk noted, not necessarily enough to pay for 4 years of college. It’s not “aggressive”, unless one views paying for your kids’ private college educaiton as “aggressive”.”
Sadly- this is NOT that aggressive. And even this level of savings probably won’t cover a private school by the time the kids are going to start.
It’s a testament to how out of control college costs have become and how even the upper middle class cannot afford it anymore. But that’s a whole other blog. 🙂
‘Which was what I said in my original post. 225k is not enough income to carry a 700k mortgage.’
Very interesting read chuk, and thanks for what appears to be your financial honesty. But you may as well save it, as you’ll be hard pressed to convince most people that $225K a year and a $700K mortgage is probably a bad idea… for a family of 4 no less. I’m convinced that the majority live, or will live, well beyond their means. Buy this place and pull out of the garage in a Hyundai? Nothing says I’m in the big’ish league quite like a penthouse full of Pottery Barn.
When you add it ALL up, it takes more money than one thinks to live the good life, the kind of good life this place is trying to convey, and why the audience goes flat whenever Sabrina posts an ‘affordable’ house in a decent but not swank neighborhood… she cuts the string from the carrot. Cheers to your common sense!
LOL@ 225k HHI with kids holding a 700k mortgage… NO THANKS NOT FOR ME! Maybe if rates were like 2%
4800/yr on clothes seem high to me. but I dont wear suits much.
do you think that mint.com site is pretty useful?
@ jay: Can you suggest some decent (but not swank) well-maintained city neighborhoods that have fun things to do (pubs/coffee shops/restaurants/farmer’s market/green space/nice gym or park), good schools, and low crime/gang activity? I think a lot of us look in so-called swank neighborhoods for these reasons, even though we don’t care about fancy cars and the like. My husband would be just fine parking a Hyundai in that garage.
It depends on what your housing expectations are Java, and therein lies the rub. It’s an impossible pill to swallow that even based on a *nice* salary like chuk’s, you’re housing options are very limited in swank urban pub/parks/farmers markets/shops/gym/school/safe areas. Sure you can probably afford a decent 2/2 apartment and raise a child there while enjoying all the amenities that neighborhood has to offer, but that’s not what people want based on their unicorn housing criteria: space, parking, turn key. You can mortgage yourself to death to get what you want, but your financial health *will* suffer, and don’t forget that eating all that farmers market produce and days at the gym will probably mean you’ll live a long long time – retirement, and I hope it’s well funded.
Chicago is probably one of the most deceptively expensive cities to live in, because other than a few standoffish apartment buildings and homes, it all looks SO damn attainable. That workers cottage, the same one someone’s grandma used to live in may be doable at $450K, but don’t forget the schools suck (hello Montessori), it’s not really close to the el (2 cars), we both work our asses off…. we’re going out ($150 @ Le Sardine), property taxes went up how much? (no caps here), on and on and on. Is there a ‘decent’ neighborhood with all the bells and whistles that’s still affordable with how you really want to live? No, not here, try Cleveland.
I think Hyde Park is a good value if you’re cool with raising your family in giant vintage condo, even though it’s probably not an “ideal” location.
Java: Fwiw I have been studying neighborhoods to relocate in the same niche: non swank, well located, fun, w/affordable real estate with future potential upside. I love the greater West Town/southeast Wicker Park area (roughly north of Chicago Avenue east of Damen to Kennedy). Sabrina has posted a few very good SFH deals there. One current concern/issue is that today, much like 25-35 years ago in current GZ areas, a cadre of soon to be former area residents commit crimes there, mostly of the petty variety like theft, car break-ins & stealing bikes, along with periodically shooting at each other, often causing collateral damage. I believe this will drop off over time. I believe local school options will also improve over time.
Problem with Ukie village is the public schools suck
@ Jay — Indeed, on all counts aside from turn-key. Growing up in lovely, green Minneapolis spoiled me.
@ mh — Though HP looks good on paper, we’ve lived there already and won’t go back.
@ Sbound — Thanks! I’ll check it out, though the crime issues sound like HP.
“Growing up in lovely, green Minneapolis spoiled me”
In the city? Lakes or NE?
Don’t get Dan started about the crime issues in HP with the recent arrest of a long gun toting break-in artist in Highland Park!
@ anon — Lakes
Southbound – that is the area I have been obsessed with recently, though maybe even a bit further south to Grand. While the immediate area may not be hopping, you are a quick trip to restaurant row in the West Loop to the south, all of River North to the east, and all of Bucktown/Wicker Park northwest while still being a quick 56 bus to the loop. To me it seems, on paper at least, to be the perfect location.
“fun things to do (pubs/coffee shops/restaurants/farmer’s market/green space/nice gym or park)”
logan square (within 2 blocks of boulevard, between xway and kedzie, plus/minus)!
“good schools, and low crime/gang activity”
That’s the issue w logan and many other (relatively) more affordable neighborhoods. Isn’t a good public school, though there are catholic schools. Crime is ok in logan, not ideal.
I think you are hard pressed to get everything on the list in the city.
‘@ Jay — Indeed, on all counts aside from turn-key. Growing up in lovely, green Minneapolis spoiled me.’
Ah yes, a very typical scenario – moving from the suburbs or a smaller city to Chicago only to be smacked by our own unique reality. So many of the semi-GZ neighborhoods look so affordable and they probably are, but when you factor in all the reasons why you gravitated towards the city in the first place, and then realize that those areas will not live up to your expectations – farmers markets, cafes, neighbors just like you, character, whatever, there’s a total disconnect. Factor in safely, schools, transportation… yikes. Sure you can be a neighborhood pioneer and wait it out until *maybe* it changes to your liking, or you can choose smaller (ie: cramped) in an established neighborhood and get on with it; in the midwest, having space is an assumption.
When I’m in NY or LA, there’s just sometime about the geography, people, and in-your-face perception of wealth that tells me at first glance – living here the way it want to is gonna hurt. Not so much in Chicago, as the city and it’s people give you few visual cues on how expensive it really is to live here while maintaining what you want.
“I love the greater West Town/southeast Wicker Park area (roughly north of Chicago Avenue east of Damen to Kennedy).’
….anchored by the stellar Wells High School.
“…anchored by the stellar Wells High School” Great post confirming I won’t need to concern myself that Dan or his ilk will be locating anywhere near where I’m looking
Fred; Yeah I really like the location relative to downtown, xways / public transportation, & many hot commercial strips. While I am open to considering properties closer to Grand that slice seems more thinly populated & grittier than north of Chicago Ave.
“4800/yr on clothes seem high to me.”
Every 2 years or so I will drop 1500 at brooks brothers in one visit. Other than that, my non work clothes are 10 years old. My wife probably spends 2k per year. Probably another 1k each per kid? They grow out of everything in one year. A couple of hundred of that is usually clothes at Xmas.
Why bother having a Tiki Bar when you’re that close to Uncle Fatty’s?
ml ballers don’t go to uncle fatty’s……. now bob on the other hand is all over $1 drink night.
“Why bother having a Tiki Bar when you’re that close to Uncle Fatty’s?”
This isn’t anywhere near Uncle Fatty’s.
Just sold for $840K. Thoughts?