This 2-Bedroom Jefferson Park Starter Bungalow Is Just $154,900: 5214 N. Larned
This 2-bedroom vintage bungalow at 5214 N. Larned in Jefferson Park recently came on the market.
It is bank owned and listed at just $154,900.
Built in 1924, it has hardwood floors and a full finished basement but only 1184 square feet.
There is also central air and a 2-car garage. However, the listing doesn’t give the lot size.
It is located just a few blocks from the Forest Glen Metra stop.
The price is nearly $50,000 under the 2000 purchase price.
Is this a deal for someone looking for a condo alternative?
[Also notice that this is a Fannie Mae Homepath property. It has taken 20 months to come back on the market.]
Saul Zenkevicius at Goodwill Realty Group has the listing. See the pictures here.
5214 N. Larned: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1184 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in July 1990 for $124,000
- Sold in August 2000 for $200,000
- Sold in March 2007 for $330,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in June 2009
- Bank owned in May 2010
- Currently listed for $154,900
- Taxes of $4422
- Central Air
- Fannie Mae Homepath property
- Bedroom #1: 12×10 (main level)
- Bedroom #2: 10×10 (main level)
This property is a little rough around the edges but it appears in solid condition. The price is looking a little more reasonable. I’ve always said that the NW side would return to 1990’s pricing; but I NEVER said that an older home in need of renovation would sell at 1990’s pricing. This house was likely in substantially the same condition (but slightly newer) in 2000 at $200,000 and 2007 for $330,000. The mortgage is less than $1,000 a month, with taxes. The school is Beaubein IIRC which is pretty good for NW side. The cost to renovate it is expensive, as it is with anyhouse; but some laminate flooring in the attic, and maybe some HD bathrooms; and an HD kitchen, this could be a nice home. It’s hard to beat less than $1,000 a month for a house. The attic becomes the 3rd bedroom. See? There are homes I do find to be reasonably priced deals here and there.
HD could save the money that his Uptown Studio jacked up to by buying this one.
” My studio rental price per month at 4640 n Sheridan has skyrocketed and I can’t afford it anymore. “
I’d buy this place if it were for sale a year ago but these days I’ve got my eyes set on Oak Brook. Clio has convinced me it’s such a great place to live. And being the no tax uptopia it is, sort of like a little texas, in the middle of dupage county, what an amazing place. I can’t wait to live there.
It’s also a 13 minute walk to the Jefferson Park Blue Line el stop.
Not too far.
I’m familiar with Jefferson Park around Milwaukee and Lawrence, but not up where this house is.
I’m looking forward to hearing what people think of the area.
hahah this is in my notebook to see. if its sound and solid at this price its a steal.
“It’s also a 13 minute walk to the Jefferson Park Blue Line el stop.
Not too far.
I’m familiar with Jefferson Park around Milwaukee and Lawrence, but not up where this house is.
I’m looking forward to hearing what people think of the area.”
forest glen metra stop is closer and nice walk. IIRC its a faster tip to the loop from here too.
the hood is VERY quiet and you will see kids on bikes so drive carefully. also there will be a touch football game in the middle of, i cant remember the street name, the times i drove down it. Its a hood where you will be a two car family but not for commuting to work.
It is a good area and very close to Andy’s and the Expressway so it would cut my current commute by about 10-20 minutes. I don’t like bungalows and know that I wouldn’t have the right combination of time, energy and money to rehab this one.
Wow, how prices have come down in this area. Actually, I’m saddened by it because I used to live just a few blocks away and, by the grace of God, managed to sell before the market turned. The area wasn’t overrun by specu-vestors, just normal families trying to buy a small, livable home. I’m sure they’re hurting with comps like this.
It’s a quiet, clean area, loaded with city workers, firemen, and the like. It’s totally boring, and not a bad place to raise kids on a budget. It’s close to highways, O’Hare, and Skokie/Niles shopping.
That said, these little bungalows offer little more living space than the typical 1000 square foot 2/1 apartment. They are tough to work with, and would require a major addition to comfortably fit a family today.
This home definitely looks like it has potential but I think it is priced this low for a reason. First, even though it is listed as a 2/1 obviously it has two baths (perhaps the second one is in the basement?) so you’d need to factor in at least a new kitchen and two new baths. Then while it looks like there is a way to get upstairs, I doubt turning it into a third bedroom would be as easy or useful as it appears. You’d have low ceilings unless you dormer out which costs money and you probably need a real staircase as well. Without pictures of the basement I’d be leary of how “finished” it is as well.
Not to say it is a bad house, nor a bad price but I think once you start thinking about it this house isn’t nearly as cheap or easy as it first looks.
“They are tough to work with, and would require a major addition to comfortably fit a family today.”
its going up or down, most build up in the attic adding two more beds and a bath. the basement is also converted and adds an illegal bedroom too.
you get a few great restaurants in a 5 minute drive from here, and access to 90 and 94 at sections without traffic so it adds to more things in a close amount of time.
Have to feel bad for whoever bought this place for $330,000 right at the peak of the market (or maybe a little past peak). Can’t understand why someone would have paid that much for a 2 BR in this neighborhood. The current price makes far more sense.
“Then while it looks like there is a way to get upstairs, I doubt turning it into a third bedroom would be as easy or useful as it appears.”
many bungalows do require an architects plans and the removal of the pantry to widen the attic staircase to usable. but not an expensive cost considering.
also i have found that 80% of bungalows when built had forward thing and when built were plumbed up to the attic (even if was mainly to vent) so a huge added cost not needed when renovating.
floor plans and load bearing walls/framing make bungalows an expensive reno if changing the floor plan.
“Have to feel bad for whoever bought this place for $330,000 right at the peak of the market (or maybe a little past peak). Can’t understand why someone would have paid that much for a 2 BR in this neighborhood. ”
because at that time bungalow’s were going for 400-500k in Portage park and Dunning and its neighbor Forest glen.
Yes it needs new baths, kitchens, etc, but at the end of the day, that’s just green zone thinking. THis is perfectly acceptable for a family looking to pay less than $1,000 a month for a house. Many families use the attic as 3rd bedroom. This is a working class sort of area, this is house most people live. Don’t let the GZ thinking jade you.
Agree with groove. a good friend lives not too far from here (up by Elston/Central). very quiet, train access to downtown, but expect to drive pretty much anywhere else. Metra service is decent, about hourly non-rush weekdays, 2 hours weekends. Blue Line isn’t too far if you’re going to miss the train and there are usually cabs at the Jeff Park blue line stop if it’s cold or drunk out.
“Yes it needs new baths, kitchens, etc, but at the end of the day, that’s just green zone thinking. THis is perfectly acceptable for a family looking to pay less than $1,000 a month for a house. Many families use the attic as 3rd bedroom. This is a working class sort of area, this is house most people live. Don’t let the GZ thinking jade you.”
Totally agree. While not the latest/greatest, the kitchen and bath appear to be completely functional, which for this price is fine.
The school is Farnsworth, not beaubien, sorry.
http://www.cps.edu/Schools/Pages/school.aspx?id=609912
The details of the neighborhood school will give you an idea of the area. between 50-75% low income; less than 25% limited english; The school is in ‘good’ but no excellent standing compared to other CPS schools. Better than your average CPS school, but no Oak Brook public schools. My goodness, Oak brook is such an amazing and magical place.
“Totally agree. While not the latest/greatest, the kitchen and bath appear to be completely functional, which for this price is fine.”
at least you can live here while doing the work over time if you wanted to go that route.
Its rough. I don’t think this is a steal by any means but if you put in 40-60K it could be a decent place to live. Jeff Park is a decent hood. I own a 2 Flat in Jeff Park and have no issues with it.
Can recommend an architect for this bungalow conversion. Good deal.
Architect,
Without posting your personal details, how do we get in touch with you?
Should we ask Sabrina?
Also, how much would you figure to fix up?
Architect, we live in a bungalow very similar to this. In your estimation is it worth an architect’s time just to widen the staircase to the attic for a third bedroom?
Milkster (February 7, 2012, 3:27 pm)
Also, how much would you figure to fix up?
$40 – 60K depending on finishes to cover Baths, Kitchen and doing something with the 3rd level.
I don’t think its a “steal” as others are suggesting but is not a bad deal
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5852-W-Giddings-St-60630/home/13475795
I like this better
I love the construction of inebriation as a weather condition. Sorry, we’d love to make it over tonight, but it’s drunk out.
“Blue Line isn’t too far if you’re going to miss the train and there are usually cabs at the Jeff Park blue line stop if it’s cold or drunk out.”
if anyone knows where I can get a copy (or file) of Butterball Brown’s record of the same name, please advise
I don’t think it’s a ‘steal’ but I think it’s price right, if you want to live in a northwest side kind of neighborhood. However you have been forewarned, this is NOT the green zone.
Correct – sorry this is not the Green Zone
But very safe and convenient neighborhood
for the cost it’d take to buy & renovate, you could probably get into Edgebrook for not much more.
Helmet huffer- Edgebrook is really expensive , far more expensive on a psf basis than Jeff park. No way you could get a comparable new place in Edgebrook for only a little bit more. I’ve been watching that neighborhood for a while and there are no deals up there. cross over the first preserve to Gladstone park, then sure, plenty of deals. But not in Edgebrook or wildwood.
The cheapest unrenovated small Georgians in Edgebrook will run you into the 300’s, and even those tiny ranches split levels that look like garages sell in the mid 300’s if it is livable.
This is *the* cheapest home in the Edgebrook school boundaries
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6701-N-Dowagiac-Ave-60646/home/13590205
$390,000
And the *second* cheapest home in Edgebrook, complete with bricked over garage (but kept the driveway….) $399,900
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6421-N-Minnehaha-Ave-60646/home/13590780
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6285-N-Leona-Ave-60646/home/13513334
$375,000, no pictures and under contract. One car garage. Needs lots of work. This is more representative of Edgebrook.
here you go, homedouche: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6228-N-Leona-Ave-60646/home/13512966
I think that is much more livable as is. I think this kitchen, while you COULD live with that kitchen and bath anyone that moves in will want to make it more up to date, even if not fancy.
“http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5852-W-Giddings-St-60630/home/13475795
I like this better”
Helmet glade hufffer – $375 and needs updating throughout per the Redfin comment…. How is that at all comparable to 150k and needs updating throughout? Maybe with an addition or a dormer or something but even then a 125k domer is still 100k less than Edgebrook without any updating.
oh you’re Homedouche with the capital “H”…..
It would take far more $$$ to renovate & expand the subject property to than Edgebrook at 6228 N Leona.
PS Plus, Chicagoans know that bungalows are less preferable and will always trade at a discount to georgians in NW side neighborhoods.
Georgians are tight. I’d take a Bungalow over a classic 3/1 Georgian any day of the week
Also your not touching Edgebrook or Wildwood for Jeff Park prices. It’s like comparing Lincoln Park to Rogers Park
helmethofer (February 7, 2012, 10:47 pm)
oh you’re Homedouche with the capital “H”…..
It would take far more $$$ to renovate & expand the subject property to than Edgebrook at 6228 N Leona.
Nope – I could drop the roof on the subject property and add 2 beds ups and a bath as well as remodel the kitchen and be under 300 total inn actually probably 275 in. That would be me not picking up a hammer
While Jeff Park is starting to approach pricing reality, pricing in Edgebrook and Wildwood are stuck on the north pole with the tooth fairy and santy claus. Inventory is abysmal, and that’s putting a fresh spin on things. Prices are very sticky coming down – quite simply because there are so few sales up in that area – it’s hard to even gauge pricing. Nobody wants to even list their home because few can sell it for what they owe (hence the many estate sales and the homes with the converted garage space); on a per sq foot basis many of the prices of those homes rival the north shore – and the north shore edgebrook is not. I like the area, it has nice homes, nice architecture, nice people, good elementary and private schools, in the city, near everything. But the neighborhood is in shock due to the price drops and now most of the neighborhood is in a deep freeze, just like my beloved Old Irving.
“Architect, we live in a bungalow very similar to this. In your estimation is it worth an architect’s time just to widen the staircase to the attic for a third bedroom?”
Servo,
legally you need to hire an architect for this type of work.
that said you can easily hire, *on the side, a union carpenter who is structural engineer that can do the job.
“for the cost it’d take to buy & renovate, you could probably get into Edgebrook for not much more.”
nope, nada, nil you wont get the same size (after reno) as you would in edgebrook. and to get close to the price you will need a home on central or caldwell or share an alley with happy foods or the irish pub Moher.
“cross over the first preserve to Gladstone park, then sure, plenty of deals”
Gladstone park is a totally differnt feel, trust me its night and day, Larned is a way better hood to live
“PS Plus, Chicagoans know that bungalows are less preferable and will always trade at a discount to georgians in NW side neighborhoods”
yes that was before 2002. If you do your homework you would know that you can get grants and discounts to renovate a bungalow under the historic bungalow thingy. the grants are larger in designated historic bungalow blocks.
Georgians will always have a more classical layout which will sell for more per sqft but we are talking fixer upper here.
to add to that,
chicagoans who “know” its easier to add on to a bungalow as you can build up, georgians always have to build in the back eating way into yard space. also cost wise cheaper to build up in a bungalow than to build back in a Georgian.
just saying
It is roughly $250,000 to build 1000 sq foot of space plus basement on the back of a georgian (500 up 500 down); i don’t think that includes a kitchen, but it does include master bed/bath/large family room etc. redo the kitchen is extra and the sky is the limit to price that out. And then the other problem is that there are increasingly fewer and fewer people out there who want/can/willing to buy your $600,000+ georgian.
“It is roughly $250,000 to build 1000 sq foot of space plus basement on the back of a georgian”
i have not seen a dig and foundation for a basement on a Georgian for that price. which is why most add-ons are crawlspaces.
homedelete (February 8, 2012, 8:41 am)
While Jeff Park is starting to approach pricing reality, pricing in Edgebrook and Wildwood are stuck on the north pole with the tooth fairy and santy claus. Inventory is abysmal, and that’s putting a fresh spin on things. Prices are very sticky coming down – quite simply because there are so few sales up in that area – it’s hard to even gauge pricing. Nobody wants to even list their home because few can sell it for what they owe (hence the many estate sales and the homes with the converted garage space); on a per sq foot basis many of the prices of those homes rival the north shore – and the north shore edgebrook is not. I like the area, it has nice homes, nice architecture, nice people, good elementary and private schools, in the city, near everything. But the neighborhood is in shock due to the price drops and now most of the neighborhood is in a deep freeze, just like my beloved Old Irving.
———————-
Pro Tip – don’t compare Edgebrook to the North Shore. Its like Clio comparing Oak Brook to Old Irving.
Inventory turn has a lot to do with the pricing in Old Irving, Edison Park, Wildwood, Edgebrook, Sauganash but have you also considered that people actually like living there and thus the inventory is low and doesn’t turn that quick? I think that has more to do with the fact of the low inventory. And of of course supply and demand and location drive real estate prices that is realtor 101
Lots of people buy and spend 40-50 years in there house in these neighborhoods.
“Lots of people buy and spend 40-50 years in there house in these neighborhoods.”
yep edgebrook and north of peterson in sauganash are perfect examples of people dying in there homes and one of the kids buying out the others to live there. and in edgebrook north of devon and before iona you hardly ever see anything listed.
Groove77 (February 8, 2012, 9:37 am)
“Lots of people buy and spend 40-50 years in there house in these neighborhoods.”
yep edgebrook and north of peterson in sauganash are perfect examples of people dying in there homes and one of the kids buying out the others to live there. and in edgebrook north of devon and before iona you hardly ever see anything listed
Home Delete thinks its because people are underwater on their mortgage. LOL
homedelete (February 8, 2012, 9:06 am)
It is roughly $250,000 to build 1000 sq foot of space plus basement on the back of a georgian (500 up 500 down); i don’t think that includes a kitchen, but it does include master bed/bath/large family room etc. redo the kitchen is extra and the sky is the limit to price that out. And then the other problem is that there are increasingly fewer and fewer people out there who want/can/willing to buy your $600,000+ georgian.
I think Georgians are the worst to add an addition too. I’ve seen some nice looking Colonial type cribs in Park Ridge that bump off the back pretty nicely though
“Home Delete thinks its because people are underwater on their mortgage. LOL”
LOL 🙂 but sadly i see that in oriole park and in the garvy school district though
Pricing also comes down to an owner hinks his place is worth X because the house across the street sold for X. They often don’t take into account that it sold at that price because:
1) it was during the Boom which seems like yesterday but was several years ago, and/or 2) the similar house (sometimes with the same floorplan by the same builder) at least has updated kitchens and/or bathrooms.
People who aren’t in the business or don’t troll sites like this go through a learning curve when they enter the market.
Groove77 (February 8, 2012, 9:53 am)
“Home Delete thinks its because people are underwater on their mortgage. LOL”
LOL but sadly i see that in oriole park and in the garvy school district though
I could see that. Im not a fan of Oriole Park as being a killer location.
I do think its nice but car dependent and the park is tits but I characterize the attraction on the same page as Jeff Park around the 4K block of an M street.
lunker: it’s OK to compare the NS to Edgebrook and Wildwood on a psf basis especially when they are simliar. I’m not talking Kenilworth, I’m talking west of green bay road north shore – that should go without being said.
In addition, inventory was way higher in times past (but I cna’t find a link to prove this at the moment) and a lot of that is underwater homeowners – not the ‘owners live here until they die’ kool-aid. That happens in park ridge too – plenty of estate sales there – and there are large numbers of short sales and foreclosures too.
Of course inventory is low so prices are high – but volume sucks too. Volume sucks REALLY bad up there.
“Im not a fan of Oriole Park as being a killer location. ”
the fact that i dont live there with its IMO good pricing says how i feel about it too. i dont like the denseness and drab looking blocks but value for dollar is very great for a NW side family.
homedelete (February 8, 2012, 10:17 am)
lunker: it’s OK to compare the NS to Edgebrook and Wildwood on a psf basis especially when they are simliar. I’m not talking Kenilworth, I’m talking west of green bay road north shore – that should go without being said.
In addition, inventory was way higher in times past (but I cna’t find a link to prove this at the moment) and a lot of that is underwater homeowners – not the ‘owners live here until they die’ kool-aid. That happens in park ridge too – plenty of estate sales there – and there are large numbers of short sales and foreclosures too.
Of course inventory is low so prices are high – but volume sucks too. Volume sucks REALLY bad up there.
I think what your missing is the city employee “live in the city” requirement that is a foundation for Edgebrook and Wildwood etc.
BTW, check on how many listings are contingent in Park Ridge right now. Inventory is low in that city too.
Groove77 (February 8, 2012, 10:18 am)
“Im not a fan of Oriole Park as being a killer location. ”
the fact that i dont live there with its IMO good pricing says how i feel about it too. i dont like the denseness and drab looking blocks but value for dollar is very great for a NW side family.
———–
I’ll give ya that.
“Pro Tip – don’t compare Edgebrook to the North Shore.”
i’ll back up hd on this one.
There’s alot of crossover with Edgebrook/Sauganash and the North Shore, esp. kids who grew up in Edgebrook over the decades that married North Shore people and now are raising families on the North Shore. Edgebrook has spawned alot of “alumni”.
Then you have some who’ve been raised on the NS, then lived in the GZ for years, but don’t want to go any further out in distance, or back out to the NS, so those people choose Edgebrook as a sort of city/suburb compromise.
This crossover does not include the HP/Deerfield/Northbrook contingent of the North Shore however, as they do not show any evidence, nor have they, of including Edgebrook or Sauganash in their migration patterns, but I don’t think that’s what Lunker was referring to
PS Sauganash is also included in this city/suburb compromise contingent.
“not the ‘owners live here until they die’ kool-aid.”
I don’t think there is any question that Wildwood, Sauganash and Edgebrook (N of Bryn Mawr) has many stuck sellers and bubble price devotees contributing to the lack of current inventory. I’m pretty sure this area saw quite a few cash out refi’s, given the abundance of bubbly gains and the middle class profile of most residents. Take a look at the historical sales of detached homes there. The area’s normal turnover of “dead 40-50 year residents” and “live in the city workers” continues to be impeded by too high prices, lol.
Year Closed Median Mean % REO/SS
2011 122 $360,000 $402,768 16%
2010 115 $415,000 $434,947 11%
2009 116 $402,500 $412,160 22%
2008 118 $467,000 $511,819 4%
2007 136 $507,500 $536,510
2006 116 $515,500 $550,366
2005 134 $507,597 $536,417
2004 185 $425,000 $464,512
2003 199 $378,000 $417,181
2002 181 $360,000 $376,505
2001 201 $344,000 $357,694
2000 195 $307,500 $330,015
1999 208 $282,250 $305,711
1998 202 $242,750 $266,434
1997 207 $226,500 $239,977
1996 199 $223,000 $234,769
1995 177 $218,500 $231,608
1994 190 $210,000 $224,869
1993 185 $202,500 $222,203
1992 154 $212,500 $222,038
1991 155 $200,800 $206,235
1990 143 $190,000 $197,258
1989 153 $197,000 $208,550
1988 147 $169,000 $177,606
The “expected” medians using CPI-U would be:
2011 $321,341
2010 $311,509
2008 $307,576
2009 $306,481
2007 $296,203
2006 $288,000
2005 $279,000
2004 $269,857
2003 $262,857
2002 $257,000
2001 $253,000
2000 $246,000
1999 $238,000
1998 $232,857
1997 $229,286
1996 $224,143
1995 $217,714
1994 $211,714
1993 $206,429
1992 $200,429
1991 $194,571
1990 $186,714
1989 $177,143
1988 $169,000
So, in real dollars, those that are selling are roughly in the same relation to ’88 prices as existed in 98/99.
Many homes in Sauganash and Edgebrook are way too expensive for most City workers.
I’d take Sauganash or Edgebrook over the north shore (west of GB road of course) any day due to my lifestyle/employement/family. I seriously considered moving there but prices are unjustifiably high. There are many other comparable areas throughout the NW and N burbs with better deals.
Me too HD.
Expensive is one thing; overpriced is something different. The north shore is expensive and justifiable so. Take a drive down sheridan road through lake forest on a beautiful fall day and it’s an amazing place to live, at least for an idylic suburban county estate sort of lifestyle. But wildwood/edgebrook is just a collection of really nice older homes (mostly poorly decorated and renovated) between devon and touhy (some a little south of devon) without the requisite north shore type scenery and lifestyle that comes with anywhere along the shore.
Vlajos (February 8, 2012, 12:15 pm)
Many homes in Sauganash and Edgebrook are way too expensive for most City workers.
A beat cop making $80ish + another $20K in OT or side job and his white collar wife bringing in 75–100K can easily afford the above 2 neighborhoods. City works do pretty well.
Remember cops get 75% pension at retirement so there is less need to fully fund a 401K like us corporate slobs.
oh boy, not this topic again…
“A beat cop making $80ish + another $20K in OT or side job and his white collar wife…..”
“A beat cop making $80ish + another $20K in OT or side job and his white collar wife bringing in 75–100K can easily afford the above 2 neighborhoods.”
let me edit A beat cop making $55ish + another $20K in OT plus a side job either in contracting or security at 30-40k (furlow days help make the side jobs more) can easily afford the above 2 neighborhoods.
even easier when its the night shift as wife can work in the day and there is no expense for nannies/daycare.
also the incentives and help for financing if a teacher or cop/fireman.
i could keep going if you like
Actually a Beat COP with 20years on will be making $80K ish just in salary and a ton of furlough.
Starting out would be $55K
For some reason people think cops are paid like Walmart workers. I got a neighbor who kills it as a copper and has a summer home, New Suburban, etc.
“Actually a Beat COP with 20years on ”
Most cops wait til they’re mid-40s before moving into a place that’s decent for their kids?
“Most cops wait til they’re mid-40s before moving into a place that’s decent for their kids?”
I dont know a cop wife that will wait longer than three years to start squirting out brats who terrorize the hood and get away with all of it.
I have a good friend ( she grew up in Deerfield fwiw) lives in Sauganash (in a very nice house) because herhusband works for the city in white-collar capacity. Not everyone who works for the city is a cop.
anon (tfo) (February 8, 2012, 2:41 pm)
“Actually a Beat COP with 20years on ”
Most cops wait til they’re mid-40s before moving into a place that’s decent for their kids?
revized – 15 years on will be making 75-80 salary. If you start at 22 that puts you at 37
If your fast tracking and hit Sargent by 30 and Lieutenant by 35-40 your in another ball park.
dahliachi (February 8, 2012, 3:06 pm)
I have a good friend ( she grew up in Deerfield fwiw) lives in Sauganash (in a very nice house) because herhusband works for the city in white-collar capacity. Not everyone who works for the city is a cop.
Yes I know that. Im giving the cop scenario as an example.
Hey, I know a person well (and I’d rather not get into more details about this particular individual) who sees the credit reports for plenty of coppers, and generally, coppers are up to their eyeballs in debt and have got the smae problems as everybody else (child support, maintenance, underwater properties, etc). This person is involved in the finance industry. Talk to this individual and she/he will give you an entire different picture of the typical copper household finances.
(*no it’s not a bankruptcy lawyer or anything like that).
” I’d rather not get into more details about this particular individual…Talk to this individual and she/he will give you an entire different picture of the typical copper household finances. ”
you want us to talk to somebody that you’d rather not provide details about. No problem. I’d like you to use my mortgage broker who will lend you money for free, only I’d rather not provide her number, email, website, snailmail or any manner in which you can get ahold of her.
“Architect, we live in a bungalow very similar to this. In your estimation is it worth an architect’s time just to widen the staircase to the attic for a third bedroom?”
Servo,
legally you need to hire an architect for this type of work.
that said you can easily hire, *on the side, a union carpenter who is structural engineer that can do the job.”
How does on go about finding a union carpenter/engineer looking for some side work?
That’s pretty funny Icarus, that’s pretty funny. I should just shut my mouth. and get back to work. all office days drive me crazy.
“Hey, I know a person well (and I’d rather not get into more details about this particular individual) who sees the credit reports for plenty of coppers, and generally, coppers are up to their eyeballs in debt and have got the smae problems as everybody else (child support, maintenance, underwater properties, etc). This person is involved in the finance industry. Talk to this individual and she/he will give you an entire different picture of the typical copper household finances.”
HD,
to get INTO details, being a few generations of chicagoans and having city worker family members mostly Po’ Po’ (thats police for you non hip people) i do the taxes for these family members and a few of their friends.
the debt they carry is not upside-down debt (not speaking for all just what i have seen). yes i have a cop cousin that has 2 two flats and a house that have mortgages higher than the current value and has child support (non court ordered BTW)
HD i think you confuse Debt sometimes, Debt is not a four letter word (well ok, but you know)
“How does on go about finding a union carpenter/engineer looking for some side work?”
many ways,
*a freind of a friend
*talk to anyone on a job site the isnt a forman (forman is the lazy f*** easy to spot)
*ask people for referrals
just remember there will be no permits involved, no licensed/bonded work so check up on your home insurance, and cash will be preferred for tax purposes, and time frame will be longer as they guy do it on weekends and after his 3pm shift ends. he will probably steal most material from his job site (still charge you for it) and use yours and everyone down your alley’s garbage can before he will take to your job site. you can hire a guy to pick up for $50-100 to save your neighbors anger, just let he guy know.
“A beat cop making $80ish + another $20K in OT or side job and his white collar wife…..”
Sorry, I can’t resist. But how many “beat cops” have a “white collar wife”? Heck, most men, in general, don’t have white collar wives. A woman making over $100,000 a year (if that is “white collar”) is a true rarity. It’s only something like 2% of all women.
Sabrina (February 8, 2012, 9:10 pm)
“A beat cop making $80ish + another $20K in OT or side job and his white collar wife…..”
Sorry, I can’t resist. But how many “beat cops” have a “white collar wife”? Heck, most men, in general, don’t have white collar wives. A woman making over $100,000 a year (if that is “white collar”) is a true rarity. It’s only something like 2% of all women.
Be surpised how many cop groupies are out there. Firemen have it better. I know several cops married to women with good jobs – Nurses, Consultants etc.
Also you’d be surprised how many coppers lock on to female attorney’s. I know at least 2 personally. Its like winning the lottery if your a cop.
Most attorneys don’t make over 100K so you can both be right.
It has taken me 87 comments for me to notice this street name?! WTF kinda name is Larned? I’d hate to tell people my address….
Attorneys in general used to make $100,000 a year – 20 years ago when there were only 20,000 or 30,000 of them. Only the younger inexperienced attorneys and the older washed out attorneys made less. Now however the Illinois bar has been adding 3,000 attorneys each and every year since I can remember. In total there are 90,000 attorneys in the state. The base of the pyramid is skewed toward the young, inexperienced and making $50,000 a year; with a small number of attorneys (600 pre-recession) joining the BigLaw ranks in Chicago making $125,000 or higher. There are still plenty of $80,000 a year jobs out there, if you have the experience or find a little niche. And if you start your own firm and manage to secure enough work to hire a couple of the young inexperienced you can probably make well over $100,000. But most younger inexperienced solos I find are getting by. Student loans hurt, big time.
600 per year joining biglaw prerecession is what I meant.
http://chicago.blockshopper.com/news/story/500150657-Lawyer_buys_5BD_home_in_Barrington_Hills_for_2M,
Some lawyers however do very well for themselves. It can be a crap shoot at times.
“Also you’d be surprised how many coppers lock on to female attorney’s. I know at least 2 personally. Its like winning the lottery if your a cop.”
Sure- if she works for the State’s Attorney’s office or is a public defender or does drunk driving cases etc. They meet cops all the time. How many of them make $100,000? Not many.
That was my point. I know this just recycles the same old argument we have about income every few months on this blog- but, surprise, most people don’t earn $100,000 a year! That’s my point. It’s extremely rare for a woman to earn over that amount (think of all the nurses and teachers you know. They aren’t making that.)
So the cop makes $85,000 a year. The wife makes $40,000 (in whatever profession) or if she’s lucky- $50,000. That’s the reality. And then she quits when she has kids anyway because the day care costs more than her salary. So is a cop with two kids buying the $500,000 Edgebrook house on a $85,000 salary?
You tell me.
I think there out there because I know them. Im not making this bs up.
I don’t know their personal income but they are living in good city neighborhoods like Wildwood, Edgebrook Norwood and Edison Park in nice houses and the wives have decent jobs.
someone needs to teach Lunker ccrd.info proficiency so he can see how big their mortgages are…..the most beneficial tool ever is hd’s firefox add-on, that thing is awesome.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3150-N-Springfield-Ave-60618/home/13450578
How much would it cost to fix this one up? Would this one be a decent investment as a
Flip/rental? Take a look at the taxes, definitely senior long term resident.
Lunker you are correct, there are plenty of dual income hh’s in the ‘hood, but simple math shows that many of them are living far closer to the edge than many of them would care to admit.
Sauganash, Sauganash Park, Edgebrook, and Wildwood all traditionally housed police and fireman households, certainly in the smaller houses. Each neighborhood includes significant areas of small houses, georgians, split-levels, and cape cods. Don’t discount the moonlighting tradesman income either, because it can be sizable and often cash-based. (There was a fireman who had a thriving skylight installation business, as I recall, checks made out to him personally.) The housing stock here isn’t all big suburban-like houses on large lots. I do agree that home prices were seriously bubbley for many years before 2008 Crash, but prices have dropped.
One of my HS friends dad worked as a desk-jockey manager for Streets & San and precinct captain, and they lived in a little Edgebrook georgian w/their three kids. When she married shortly after HS graduation, her parents held her wedding reception at the Drake’s main ballroom. Go figure.
There are a lot of under-employed and unemployed attorneys; market is even more glutted than for architects – which I didn’t think was possible. Other attorneys work as contract employees w/o benefits. Anyone see WTTW program this week discussing law school grads’ class-action lawsuit against IIT/Kent, John Marshall, and Loyola or DePaul, for fraud due to inflated grad employment statistics? Plaintiffs want tuition reimbursement. Discussion noted that there’s employment for only 1/3 sitting for bar exam now, an employment shortfall that exists apparently since 2002.
By the way, it’s pretty sexist to assume that upper-middle-income wives’ salaries are usually lower than husbands. We know many couples where it’s actually the wife who earns more, or earns equivalent salary. Go check demographic statistics for upper-middle income college-educated households. Few college-educated professionals are now not marrying their socio-economic equivalent partner. It’s fun to read the NYT’s Sunday wedding announcements to see how absolutely matched most couples are.
And many cops and firemen went to college and have degrees. Some even get master degrees while working. Their salary bumps quickly put them into “upper-middle-income” bracket, further improved if there’s a working wife and/or that moonlighting income.
“the most beneficial tool ever is hd’s firefox add-on, that thing is awesome”
HH and HD – What is this?
Would love to know.
Thank you.
“And many cops and firemen went to college and have degrees.”
So now we’re back to “cops and firemen are all upper middle class” and that they’re somehow going to prop up the bubblicious market in Edgebrook and Sauganash?
Hilarious.
They’re laying off people all over the city (just ask the $65,000 a year librarians.) Benefits are being cut. Pensions will never be the same again. These neighborhoods were a HUGE bubble. They are still adjusting. Edgebrook is one of the worst neighborhoods in the city for price declines. It has much, much more to go.
“By the way, it’s pretty sexist to assume that upper-middle-income wives’ salaries are usually lower than husbands. We know many couples where it’s actually the wife who earns more, or earns equivalent salary.”
Go look at the census data. The 2000 census showed only 2% of all women made over $100,000 a year. Just because you live in a big metropolitan area and know people whose wedding announcements are in the NYT does NOT mean that is normal. The 10 blocks around Southport Avenue in Lakeview are also NOT the norm. I urge everyone to take a drive to Portage Park and Irving Park and Morgan Park (etc. etc.) and tell me how many women are making $100,000.
Conversely, 9% of men earn over $100,000 (these stats are nationwide- and as we’ve discussed here- it can vary by location obviously.)
Drive out to the suburbs. Go to Bartlett. Tell me: how many women are earning over $100,000 there?
It’s an extremely low amount. It’s actually quite rare and unusual. So if you’re a man and you earn $150,000 and somehow your wife is also earning $150,000- that would put you in an unusual group of people. I’m not saying there aren’t these couples. Not at all. We all know the two attorney or two doctor couples. But there are NOT thousands of these across Chicago. It’s very, very unusual.
Women make less money then men, even within the same professions. There’s no secret about this.
And, by the way, just because you know a cop who raised his family in Edgebrook like 30 years ago- doesn’t mean they can afford it TODAY. I know someone who lives in a $2 million brownstone in Lincoln Park. He bought it in 1972 when the neighborhood was awful. NO ONE wanted to live there. He didn’t go to college. He runs a bar. So what? He got lucky and didn’t choose South Prairie in the South Loop in 1972. Could he buy it today? Um…no.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/cook-county-pin-search/
Just your everyday average $590,000 house in edgebrook
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/6142-N-Leader-Ave-60646/home/13512210
$273 psf.
“Lunker you are correct, there are plenty of dual income hh’s in the ‘hood, but simple math shows that many of them are living far closer to the edge than many of them would care to admit.”
HD, dont solely go off those factors. and dont assume all debt is uncovered.
if you looked at just my debt to my income you would think i am one check away from disaster. but if you dig further you will see its far from the truth.
just look at me on CCRD you will see my mortgage and a ~125k second well guess what i have 1k on the second (just to keep it open). so you see it doesnt mean my home is in the hole that 125k
you will see 2 car loans one at 0% interest and another at 1.9% (best deal at the time) but if you dig further you will see savings that can easily cover both loans.
if you dig further 401k, ira, a few CD’s (yes i know but i like guaranteed money), and other investments that can easily pay off the mortgage.
debt is not evil my friend its a awesome leverage tool.
i think you just see to many doom cases on your desk and extrapolate it to the whole population
I am all for women’s rights (actually human rights in general), but Sabrina’s statement was no way sexists she is pointing to a well known fact that fewer women are high earners. It is just how it is. It might (hopefully) change one day and we are moving towards that day but it is not yet the case.
“By the way, it’s pretty sexist to assume that upper-middle-income wives’ salaries are usually lower than husbands. We know many couples where it’s actually the wife who earns more, or earns equivalent salary.”
“So the cop makes $85,000 a year. The wife makes $40,000 (in whatever profession) or if she’s lucky- $50,000. That’s the reality. And then she quits when she has kids anyway because the day care costs more than her salary. So is a cop with two kids buying the $500,000 Edgebrook house on a $85,000 salary? ”
bri bri,
example; a family member (not going to get into which) is a cop with a side contracting bussiness. Makes 70-80k just in regular pay, another 20k in over time and another 70-150k (depends on the year) in the contracting.
while you is patrolling his assigned area he/she will swing over to the job site and oversee the construction.
Even easier to do when a detective.
many cops will leave their district to do “Homeland security” while on the clock. and that phrase is in quotes for a reason
Thank you, HD!
Can’t wait to try it out tonight.
“I urge everyone to take a drive to Portage Park and Irving Park and Morgan Park (etc. etc.) and tell me how many women are making $100,000.”
Or for even more of an eye-opener, take the bus.
I’m sure there are a few cleaning lady business owners living in PP making over 100k (under the table even!)
“It’s an extremely low amount. It’s actually quite rare and unusual. So if you’re a man and you earn $150,000 and somehow your wife is also earning $150,000- that would put you in an unusual group of people. I’m not saying there aren’t these couples. Not at all. We all know the two attorney or two doctor couples. But there are NOT thousands of these across Chicago. It’s very, very unusual.”
I think there are thousands in a wealthy metro area of 9Million people.
My sense is that the majority of newby lawyers graduating from the nation’s top 50 law schools as well as the best 5% of students from all other schools — maybe 10,000-15,000 students per year nationally — are doing as well and making more than 20 years ago. Legal services as a whole are way up over that period and these graduates are moving into solid jobs. The growing numbers of lawyers every year comes from the nation’s other several hundred law schools, most of which churn out 100 students for every 1 that gets a “good” job (over $100,000 at a good firm). Student loans from these schools may still be very high and affordability is likely a big problem in this tier. It is certainly not the field for an easy buck today.
More kids should go to med school.
“Some lawyers however do very well for themselves. It can be a crap shoot at times.”
The unsuccessful always think that the successful are only successful through luck, nor hard work, planning and intelligence.
But doctors are controlling the numbers through residency matching system and quota. They don’t want competition.
“More kids should go to med school.”
Or at least keep telling it so that they end up believing it. It makes them feel like victims rather than having to acknowledge they have to work harder or accept that they just don’t have what it takes to become successful.
“The unsuccessful always think that the successful are only successful through luck, nor hard work, planning and intelligence.”
Groove77 (February 9, 2012, 9:39 am)
“So the cop makes $85,000 a year. The wife makes $40,000 (in whatever profession) or if she’s lucky- $50,000. That’s the reality. And then she quits when she has kids anyway because the day care costs more than her salary. So is a cop with two kids buying the $500,000 Edgebrook house on a $85,000 salary? ”
bri bri,
example; a family member (not going to get into which) is a cop with a side contracting bussiness. Makes 70-80k just in regular pay, another 20k in over time and another 70-150k (depends on the year) in the contracting.
while you is patrolling his assigned area he/she will swing over to the job site and oversee the construction.
Even easier to do when a detective.
many cops will leave their district to do “Homeland security” while on the clock. and that phrase is in quotes for a reason
“The unsuccessful always think that the successful are only successful through luck, nor hard work, planning and intelligence.”
Not true.
“Or for even more of an eye-opener, take the bus.”
Another great eye-opener is the drive west on Grand west of the metra yard from about Augusta to Brickyard mall. A great drive, never boring. It’s like a colorful scene out of the movie Idiocracy (2006).
Groove77 (February 9, 2012, 9:39 am)
“So the cop makes $85,000 a year. The wife makes $40,000 (in whatever profession) or if she’s lucky- $50,000. That’s the reality. And then she quits when she has kids anyway because the day care costs more than her salary. So is a cop with two kids buying the $500,000 Edgebrook house on a $85,000 salary? ”
bri bri,
example; a family member (not going to get into which) is a cop with a side contracting bussiness. Makes 70-80k just in regular pay, another 20k in over time and another 70-150k (depends on the year) in the contracting.
while you is patrolling his assigned area he/she will swing over to the job site and oversee the construction.
Even easier to do when a detective.
many cops will leave their district to do “Homeland security” while on the clock. and that phrase is in quotes for a reason
Dup post sorry. This is NOT uncommon. These cops get tons of Furlough they now work 4 day weeks – couple this with a 3rd shift schedule they have alot of opportunity for side businesses.
Couple that with Firemen – those guys work like 1x per month. They all have side businesses from being a mortgage loan officer to plumber to insurance broker.
ilkster (February 9, 2012, 9:50 am)
“I urge everyone to take a drive to Portage Park and Irving Park and Morgan Park (etc. etc.) and tell me how many women are making $100,000.”
Or for even more of an eye-opener, take the bus.
Totally different neighborhood and income. Im arguing that the upper income city workers (income combined from several sources – wife, side biz etc.) keeps the value of the Wildwoods, Edgebrooks, Edison, Old Norwood up. Combine that with the professionals that value the city location and conviniences of these neighborhoods.
Im sticking to that story and the fact that these are tits neighborhoods that people actually like to live in and don’t leave.
“They all have side businesses from being a … plumber ….”
Plumber keeps coming up. I thought most of them in a trade were sparkies.
Firemen I know have been plumbers and carpenters.
helmethofer (February 9, 2012, 12:12 am)
someone needs to teach Lunker ccrd.info proficiency so he can see how big their mortgages are…..the most beneficial tool ever is hd’s firefox add-on, that thing is awesome.
Im fully aware of this tool and use it on occasion. I really don’t care what peoples debt is unless Im screening them as a tenant.
anon (tfo) (February 9, 2012, 10:31 am)
“They all have side businesses from being a … plumber ….”
Plumber keeps coming up. I thought most of them in a trade were sparkies.
I know 2. One is a complete prick and I’ll never use him again and bad mouth him at any chance I get. And the other is f’n awesome and I prop him up whenever I get the chance. Both CFD with Plumbing Businesses.
““They all have side businesses from being a … plumber ….”
Plumber keeps coming up. I thought most of them in a trade were sparkies.”
first laborer job i did was masonry at 14 years old, the owner was a detective. did roofing laborer for a CFD.
firemen are like 2 days on 3 days off, you need a side job to keep from boredom.
firemen are like 2 days on 3 days off, you need a side job to keep from boredom.
1 on 2 off but throw vacation time in and furlough they average like 1x per month and make $75K LOL. They are Hero’s though
Then it must be the stuck and delusional sellers that are contributing to the lack of inventory and sales. There’s always been side jobs and dying people, right?
“would be” sellers
JJJ: let me rewrite your maxim:
The successful always think that they are successful due to hard work, planning and intelligence, rather than luck.
Hardwork, planning and intelligence is a part of it, but luck, which is often just being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people, is often the other half. This is a philosophical topic and books and treatises have been written about this since the beginning of time. Even the Greeks had a god on Mt Olympus who was blinded and forced to distribute money and wealth indiscriminately without any favor to the good or merit worthy; because even back then JJJ, people like you existed who believed that their success was the result of their merit rather than dumb luck.
Hi Lunker –
I like Jefferson Park and Norwood Park.
I recommended them recently when someone asked for areas with a good combo of safety, public transportation, schools and restaurants.
I just meant I agree with Sabrina’s point that there are large swaths of the city where people don’t make that much.
These areas are much, much larger than the tiny GZ.
And that in our cars we are insulated.
But if you take public transportation you will meet all your fellow citizens.
I took the Irving Park Road bus one day from the Lakeshore to the HIP Mall at Harlem and IPR.
I mean, it took forever but it was so interesting.
I love street life and street style and people-watching and happening upon cool neighborhoods and buildings and restaurants and bars and stuff.
“I like Jefferson Park and Norwood Park.
I recommended them recently when someone asked for areas with a good combo of safety, public transportation, schools and restaurants.”
What restaurants in Norwood Park? (Maybe same q for Jefferson, but I don’t know as well as I do Norwood.)
I know a normal american dude from Wisconsin, who landed at a Midwestern brokerage firm trading RMBS bonds in the 90’s, no MBA from Kellogg, and today he has a $2.2 million house off of Wagner Rd. Trust me, he didn’t work that hard, and trading hours are not like putting in all-nighters like BigLaw or IB jobs.
“I love street life and street style and people-watching and happening upon cool neighborhoods and buildings and restaurants and bars and stuff.”
Do you smoke Parliaments or Marlboro Lights?
Just to share something with you that happened today,
I transfer trains every morning at Times Square.
There’s a nice older lady who I sometimes see on the platform who always says “hi” to me.
(This is VERY unusual in New York, btw. It’s not like Chicago that way. People keep to themselves.)
She wears these beautiful scarves and she told me she knits them herself.
So I saw her this morning for the first time in a couple of weeks and she told me she noticed I like pink and that I remind her of her daughter and that she is making a scarf for me with pinks and reds in it.
I was blown away.
I wanted to cry.
This stranger who did not even know my name and with whom I share a 5 minute subway ride on occasion was making a scarf for me.
DZ,
http://chicago.everyblock.com/announcements/jan06-great-new-restaurant-norwood-park-4641929/
I don’t smoke.
I don’t date smokers either.
They always have bad breath.
“I don’t smoke.
I don’t date smokers either.
They always have bad breath.”
Then you’re a fake dive-bar person.
Fair enough, DZ.
It was hard to find a neighborhood which had all those requirements and was also affordable.
The safer neighborhoods always seem to have fewer drinking and dining options.
But in either Jefferson Park or Norwood Park, if you live by the Blue Line you have easy access to entertainment in other neighborhoods.
“Then you’re a fake dive-bar person.”
Whatever, spicy food-lovin’, off-the-beaten-path travellin’ fake Hitler.
“It was hard to find a neighborhood which had all those requirements and was also affordable.
The safer neighborhoods always seem to have fewer drinking and dining options.”
Agree with that. Wasn’t really trying to give you a hard time, it’s just that we looked somewhat seriously at norwood park at one point but just didn’t find enough stuff around there of interest. Walkability, groove, walkability.
And, Icarus, I hope your post wasn’t meant to be serious.
I’m surprised how big the downtown is for suburb of Park Ridge. Quite a few restaurants, etc. Do people from the NW side go there to eat/drink?
“I’m surprised how big the downtown is for suburb of Park Ridge. Quite a few restaurants, etc. Do people from the NW side go there to eat/drink?”
only for trader joe’s, oberwies, the pankace place, and the pickwick. everything else wee need is in edsion park in the NWHWY strip
and there are may restaurants in norwood, as jeff park is a 3 minute car ride, edison is a 2 minute car ride all with great restaurants norwood is only 3 minutes from Smak Tak.
That is a cute story Milkster but pink and red scarf for some reason makes me think of something Madam Mim would wear : )
“she is pointing to a well known fact that fewer women are high earners.”
Interesting article on that subject.
Why men earn more.
http://www.martynemko.com/articles/why-men-earn-more_id1226
“And, Icarus, I hope your post wasn’t meant to be serious.”
when was the last time anyone took me serious around here?
Haha, miumiu.
I was thinking more along the lines of Chicago May.
I’ll parade around in that scarf with swagger and be dangerous 😉
“when was the last time anyone took me serious around here?”
with the slacking on the wiki, do we have a reason too? 😉
People in Park Ridge go out in Edison Park.
Wow Sabrina, bite my head off. There’ve been plenty of NYT articles (and David Brooks commentary) about social self-sorting occurring in USA when selecting spouses, and plenty of articles regarding college-educated upper-middle class professional women earning comparable salaries (if not more) than their husbands. Ok, by definition, they’re also often found in the top 5% of household income categories, but recall that the “top 1%” income-bracket is around $200,000 – not $2,000,000.
“It’s fun to read the NYT’s Sunday wedding announcements to see how absolutely matched most couples are.”
“There’ve been plenty of NYT articles (and David Brooks commentary)”
You sure put a lot of stock in the NYT. I don’t know where the truth on this matter lies–I know plenty of “matched” and “unmatched” couples. It is possible that the NYT wedding announcements are not a representative sample, right? And the NYT social/style trend articles are just nuts sometimes. String together a couple of anecdotes, make a nod toward data, i.e., present data that seems supportive, note that upon further examination the data are inconclusive, shrug, and then go back to anecdotes.
“And the NYT social/style trend articles are just nuts sometimes. ”
tsk tsk. I enjoy looking at the homosexual couples’ pictures now included in the NYT wedding announcement section! It’s fun to look at their faces. Most people bother to read David Brooks’ milquetoast drivel, he’s their housebroken “conservative” lapdog….so real conservatives think the guy is a joke, and liberals just dismiss him.
“with the slacking on the wiki, do we have a reason too? ”
this thread may hold the record for most comments unrelated to the subject property
The subject property still has an old-fashioned TV antenna up there from the 1970’s.
“helmethofer (February 9, 2012, 1:55 pm)”
Have you ever been kicked in the nuts? If not may i be the first one?
Groove: You have no sense of humor whatsoever …. didn’t you ever have a Village People album growing up? Who brought up the NYT wedding announcement page on this thread anyway?
“Groove: You have no sense of humor whatsoever”
no i do have a great one, hence the reason i want to watch your face after i kick you in the nutz as i bet i will laugh for days after that.
“The successful always think that they are successful due to hard work, planning and intelligence, rather than luck.”
OR maybe it should be…” Hard work, planning, and intelligence often result in one being lucky. ”
That’s the one I’ve noticed. Although sometimes people are just lucky. Heck, I’ll take having good luck over being smart anyday of the week
“recall that the “top 1%” income-bracket is around $200,000”
In 2010 (last available year), the last HH in the top 1% had an income of $516,633. And I would wager that the top 1% in metro Chicago was a fair bit higher than that, given that we are #11 out of 280 MSAs for median HH income. With slightly over 3.5mm households in the metro, that’s (well) over 35,000 households with reported income in 2010 in excess of $500,000.
Thanks anon, I am too lazy to research, but that is not surprising.
“i want to watch your face after i kick you in the nutz”
Man Getting Hit by Football is a classic.
“In 2010 (last available year), the last HH in the top 1% had an income of $516,633.”
Well, no rounding there. What’s the source? I thought I’d seen lower.
“I would wager that the top 1% in metro Chicago was a fair bit higher than that, given that we are #11 out of 280 MSAs for median HH income.”
I wager so too, though don’t know that ranking of median HH income is that useful as predictor (not useless). We’re (just) above NYC and I’d bet their 1 percent cutoff is higher.
“What’s the source?”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/who-are-the-1-percenters/2011/10/06/gIQAn4JDQL_blog.html
“though don’t know that ranking of median HH income is that useful as predictor (not useless). ”
Useful enough to provide very high confidence that MSAs in the top ten percent of median income have higher than nationwide average 1% income cutoff, barring artificially high prevailing wages, as in Hawaii and Alaska.
“We’re (just) above NYC and I’d bet their 1 percent cutoff is higher.”
Sure, but same thing as above. Not predictive to degree to which higher, but predictive that its higher.
“this thread may hold the record for most comments unrelated to the subject property”
You are so right Icarus. I think the last one to comment on the subject property was me(about 80
Comments ago) it wasn’t the exact property but a Bungalow in what is now an interesting part of Avondale. Only 115K! Oh well…..at least I thought it was interesting.
“http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/who-are-the-1-percenters/2011/10/06/gIQAn4JDQL_blog.html”
Found what I was recollecting. Of course it’s NYT so who the hell knows what they’re trying to report (seemed to be using same source, wasn’t obvious from quick look what they were reporting).
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/15/business/the-1-percent-paint-a-more-nuanced-portrait-of-the-rich.html?pagewanted=all
“Useful enough to provide very high confidence that MSAs in the top ten percent of median income have higher than nationwide average 1% income cutoff, barring artificially high prevailing wages, as in Hawaii and Alaska.”
Not so sure. I could see e.g. a few of the msas in the top ten percent (even excluding those based on your prevailing wage caveat) not having a higher than nationwide 1 percent cutoff. E.g., Hartford? Obv, if things were skewed enough, all of the national 1 percenters could be in one or two msas, and the 1 percenters in every other msa would all individually be below the national average. That’s extreme assm of course.
My confidence that Chicago 1 percenter is above national is based as much on types of jobs and companies that are here as it is the ranking on the list.
“It is possible that the NYT wedding announcements are not a representative sample, right? And the NYT social/style trend articles are just nuts sometimes.”
It’s extremely competitive to get your announcement in the NYT. Didn’t you guys watch Sex and the City? It’s a big deal.
They don’t take everyone. You have to have gone to a certain school or have parents in prominent jobs or hold a prominent job to get in there. That’s why you see the two lawyer couple who both when to Ivy League law schools (the NYT LOVES double ivies. Prestige!) The NYT announcements aren’t representative of anything (although I’m sure some PhD student or professor has studied them for what they DO say about cultural norms.) I know there was a big to-do when women decided to keep their maiden names. It now says something like, “Mary Smith married John Carter on Saturday. She is keeping her name.”
“Ok, by definition, they’re also often found in the top 5% of household income categories, but recall that the “top 1%” income-bracket is around $200,000 – not $2,000,000.”
Right. They are NOT the norm. They are extremely rare and unusual (as even a household income in the top 5% is- by definition.) I said nothing about the top 1%. I said women who earned over $100k (NOT their household income- but the actual woman earning that much money.) It is rare.
Next thing you know- someone will be arguing that cops are in the top 1%.
“So I saw her this morning for the first time in a couple of weeks and she told me she noticed I like pink and that I remind her of her daughter and that she is making a scarf for me with pinks and reds in it.
I was blown away.
I wanted to cry.
This stranger who did not even know my name and with whom I share a 5 minute subway ride on occasion was making a scarf for me.”
This is awesome Milkster. Thanks for sharing this story. You clearly made a connection with this woman just by standing on the subway platform with her every day. Sometimes all people care about is someone taking the time to say “hello” or to smile. It’s amazing.
HD- I understand your sentiments but I’m going to delete these comments because I’ve decided it will just get too out of control. I KNOW you understand. Why unleash the crazy? It’s hard to resist going there though.
I took a look at this house from the outside over the weekend.
It’s a lovely, quiet, clean area with nice neighbors who say “hello” and cute, well cared for homes.
The previous owners were evicted by the Sherriff – forgive me, but I can’t remember if it was on 1/9/2012 or 1/9/2011.
The house is sad and neglected.
Yes, it is solid and has good bones, but it’s going to need a lot of love – more than 40 – 60K worth.
The front steps and walkway need to be repaired as does the back entrance.
The yard is completely overgrown with weeds, and I think the garage is a teardown.
I took a look at CCRD and it looks like a lis pendens was also filed against the prior owner who bought in 2000.
That owner bought for 200K and obtained a mortgage for 174.5K.
The most recent owner who was foreclosed on bought for 330K and obtained a mortgage for 313.5K.
You’d be handicapped without a car here.
The area is walkable to a point.
It’s easy to get to the Foster Avenue bus.
But it’s an inelegant route to walk to the Jefferson Park Blue Line el.
Because of the Kennedy, you can’t walk south in a straight line.
You have to cut over to Milwaukee on Argyle where the street is all torn up and dusty with road work and walk under a bridge next to a lot of traffic.
You’d probably need a car for grocery shopping.
It’s an REO and it hasn’t sold yet, so if you like it I would totally just make a lowball offer accounting for all the repairs you will have to make.
Thanks for the update on the house Milkster. It definitely seemed like a “driveable” neighborhood to me. I didn’t see too many people walking around when I was there.
Anytime, Sabrina!
Some notes just popped up on the Redfin listing from an agent who toured the home and said:
“Rough shape, but has potential for a small home.”
Reduced to 144.9K.
Sold for 138K on 3/28/2012!