This 4-Bedroom Home in the Sky Is Bigger Than Many Single Family Homes: 442 W. Wellington in East Lakeview
They sure knew how to build them in the 1920s.
This 4-bedroom on the 7th floor of 442 W. Wellington in East Lakeview has been on and off the market since March 2008.
The building was built in 1926 and has 23 units.
The unit still has the original hardwood floors, a wood burning fireplace, crown molding and wide open living spaces.
Where else can you get bedrooms this size? You won’t see a 10×12 bedroom in this unit.
It also has an 18×8 foyer and a 6×36 gallery.
This unit also has modern amenities that buyers look for including 2 car parking, an in-unit washer/dryer and central air.
It is a co-op building with a 24 hour doorman.
The assessment is $3668 a month. The listing says that includes “Oper/Capital, Tax assess separate.”
What will it take to finally sell this property in 2012?
It isn’t the only unit for sale in the building. Unit #5W is also on the market. It is also listed at $699,000.
Charles Heaver at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #7W: 4 bedrooms, 4.5 baths, 3700 square feet, 2 car parking
- I don’t have an original sales price (co-op)
- Originally listed in March 2008
- Was listed in July 2009 for $745,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in October 2011 for $719,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $699,000
- Assessments of $3668 a month (includes parking, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $9900
- Central Air
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Bedroom #1: 24×14
- Bedroom #2: 19×18
- Bedroom #3: 18×14
- Bedroom #4: 18×14
- Foyer: 18×8
- Gallery: 6×36
That’s a whole lotta hallway.
Also, assessments – no thanks.
4 bedroom “home” in the sky? Mobile home, maybe! The layout is like a trailer!
I didn’t look at the pics long enough to see if there are lots of hallways, but Wellington and E. Lakeview for this monthly total nut is seems out of character. Goldcoast perhaps….
$7800/mo goes a long way in Chicago. There have to be better options out there for those in the quarter-mil+ club.
photo lens effect
“That’s a whole lotta hallway.”
“photo lens effect”
More like actual layout and floor plan effect.
the higher the assessments the lower the price. You’d think a concept this easy would noted by realtors. insane monthly payment for this place.
“photo lens effect”
Is that deceptive advertising??!?!?!
ah i c
long hallway bad?
“$7800/mo … for those in the quarter-mil+ club.”
Do people who gross $250,000 really think $7500/mo is a reaonable housing expense?
not even close
not even at 400 – 500k at least for me…
“$7800/mo goes a long way in Chicago”
somebody give me a scenario that would make sense to pay $7,800 a month to live here.
I cant come up with even a way out there one
“long hallway bad?”
I was letting my son ride his bike in the hallway a couple weeks ago and wishing it were longer.
“Do people who gross $250,000 really think $7500/mo is a reaonable housing expense?”
If I ask you if that’s a rhetorical question, do I get yelled at by you once again?
“somebody give me a scenario that would make sense to pay $7,800 a month to live here.”
cable comes with Vivid channel already included????
“somebody give me a scenario that would make sense to pay $7,800 a month to live here….I cant come up with even a way out there one”
If you are a new talk show host taking over for a famous talk show host, it might make sense to rent for $7800/mo for a year or two to be sure that your show pans out before selling your LV home at a loss?
“If I ask you if that’s a rhetorical question, do I get yelled at by you once again”
It’s not really rhetorical–Certainly, there are better options than this for the $250k HHI set, but I think that has more to do with this place being too expensive on $250k HHI, than there being scads of better family-sized apartments available for ~$7500/mo (which is likely *also* true).
This is going to be a tough sell at any price. For those taxes/assessments, I would want to live in a very special building. This building doesn’t seem that special. I would much rather live in an East Lake Shore Drive co-op. I’m sure the unit prices are a lot more than this place, but is money really a concern for someone who can afford these taxes/assessments?
“cable comes with Vivid channel already included????”
+1
But then I’d suggest spending 3k per month on housing and using the additional 4-5k on hookers.
“cable comes with Vivid channel already included????”
internet on tv’s already made that obsolete.
“If you are a new talk show host taking over for a famous talk show host, it might make sense to rent for $7800/mo for a year or two to be sure that your show pans out before selling your LV home at a loss?”
my fav qoute about her, “she wears underwear with d*** holes in them”
“I was letting my son ride his bike in the hallway a couple weeks ago and wishing it were longer.”
that hallway would be amazing for skateboarding as well. the wood runs the right direction. nothing beats a buttery smooth skateboard ride up and down a long wood hallway. very relaxing
I got that number by: $7800 * 3 (spend no more than 1/3 your income on housing) * 12 months = $280,800yr. Or the minimum household income required to live here. Actual buyers will probably make more than that.
What do you think this place would be worth if it had market rate assessments?
“I was letting my son ride his bike in the hallway a couple weeks ago and wishing it were longer.”
i would hate to be renting in the same building as you.
“What do you think this place would be worth if it had market rate assessments?”
What do you consider market rate assessments, on a $psf basis, for a vintage doorman building, including heat?
“I got that number”
Yeah, no doubt. It’s a “traditional” loan underwriting qualifying amount for $250k income with little other debt at 36% of gross. But that’s not the issue–it’s whether at $250k HHI, normal-ish income growth prospects, and no outside wealth or large deferred comp potential, does that amount seem reasonable? I’m on the “no” side, pretty obviously.
“i would hate to be renting in the same building as you.”
Gotta be better than living under CH trying to recapture his youth. (Also, was only b/c son’s new bike had just arrived but my wife forbade him from riding outside b/c she didn’t want any broken bones the day before we were leaving on vacation. Now that the bike has been outside, it’s forbidden from the inside.)
I wonder what the cost would be to take this building condo? It might be worth it in the long run.
$7800/mo goes a long way in Chicago. There have to be better options out there for those in the half-mil+ club.
Better?
“Gotta be better than living under CH trying to recapture his youth” or “Above Ze, with the kids always asking whats that sweet pungent smell” ???? take your pick!
And on 250HHI, and outside of Manhattan.. Absolutely NO!! throw in heating and AC and that leaves you with about 6k a month. That would leave you with about $200 a day discretionary . Absolutely not!
“Better?”
Yeah, that one I can’t argue with.
What do you consider market rate for assessments psf for a low amenity, doormanned, heat-included, vintage building? I don’t see any conceiveable way it’s less than $0.50, and would be surprised if it’s less than $0.75, for a building with decent reserves and no recent paid off specials to fund major modernization.
“Gotta be better than living under CH trying to recapture his youth”
powersliding compared to a kid cranking away flopping side to side on the training wheels? I will take CH’s failed “no comply 180’s” any day.
also with condos and co-ops you pay so much into a reserve but when you move do you get it all back?
“throw in heating ”
Heating is included.
“that leaves you with about 6k a month.”
Best have a car gifted to you, to use one of your two spots, else than seriously dents your monthly free cash. And you’re working on an assumption of minimal retirement savings.
“a kid cranking away flopping side to side on the training wheels”
Training wheels are pointless. They don’t train your kid for anything other than riding on a bike with training wheels.
“I got that number by: $7800 * 3 (spend no more than 1/3 your income on housing) * 12 months = $280,800yr.”
That’s a stupid calc. Every situation is different, the more you make, the higher percentage you can put towards housing. Food and Transportation expenses can be the same for an individual making 80k and one making 250k, That leaves a lot more for housing expenses….
“That’s a stupid calc. ”
I always worked it in backwards… Started with (after tax income – unavoidable expenses – what I wanted to save) then i came up with what i could break down on a balance between housing costs and discretionary income.
“Food and Transportation expenses can be the same for an individual making 80k and one making 250k”
so how much should someone making 80k spend on shelter?
so how much should someone making 250k spend on shelter?
“Training wheels are pointless.”
agreed, we went tricycle, well went red metal vintage to be exact. when ready straight to bike with out training wheels.
since we strayed off topic, if i see another fat kid in a motorized toy truck/car i think i will snap.
how old is your kid dz? I see 3yr olds riding bikes w/o training and I feel like my 4yr old needs to step it up.
no comply 180s are beyond me. two indoor wipe outs convinced me just to enjoy the buttery cruise.
“so how much should someone making 80k spend on shelter?
so how much should someone making 250k spend on shelter?”
Using Ze’s “no way” above, HHI of $80k needs to find someone to pay them to housesit.
And HHI of $250k seems a lot more reasonable at ~$5k/mo than at $7500.
Very few people making $250k are spending $7800/month on housing even if they could technically qualify to do so…
Most of the $250k folks spend $400-$650k. PITIs usually around $3000-$5000.
The person that will buy this unit will be someone that wants a family-sized unit in this vicinity, that likes one-level living and that has sufficient $$. Those families definitely exist (maybe not as many as there used to be). I’ve been in a unit in this building and have known a few other residents, and this building definitely has some vintage class.
It’s a unique building in the size of the units, low number of units, land on the side where there is a playground, etc. Doorman is expensive to divide by only 36 units, but it gets you a high level of service. There are lots of great vintage details (barrel vaulted ceiling in the hallway, built-in drawers, gorgeous floors, etc.) and this unit appears to have been modernized (though clearly could use some updating). No way it will come down much below $600K
“Most of the $250k folks spend $400-$650k. PITIs usually around $3000-$5000.”
If that’s the case, and the entire Green Zone SFH inventory (considered acceptable) is $700K or above, then that debunks HD’s theory that Chicago doesn’t have *that many* large income jobs. We’re talking alot of new/rehabbed SFH’s in the entire GZ over the last decade. Tons.
“how old is your kid dz? I see 3yr olds riding bikes w/o training and I feel like my 4yr old needs to step it up.”
Just turned 4, last month. He’s pretty coordinated in general for his age but his having had balance bike made a *huge* difference. First time outside, I let go and he bikes the whole block. V low effort after the balance bike (so not so much that little CH needs to step it up, failing is more with regular CH).
“how old is your kid dz? I see 3yr olds riding bikes w/o training and I feel like my 4yr old needs to step it up.”
no way 3 year olds? their legs arent even long enough to reach the pedals!
“And you’re working on an assumption of minimal retirement savings.”
First surfing day in weeks.. Ze’s assumptions will all be a bit shaky today…but a truly perfect day! 🙂
Tonight I am thinking how I can keep the beach theme and get pork chops going with coconut milk but not sure if coconut milk is kosher to mix with pork chops? Helmet???
“no way 3 year olds? their legs arent even long enough to reach the pedals!”
My kid is definitely on shorter side. I’m sure an average 3.5 year old (or 3.0 on taller side) would fit.
“Doorman is expensive to divide by only 36 units”
Even more expensive when there are only 24 (or is it 23?) units in this building.
“He’s pretty coordinated in general for his age but his having had balance bike made a *huge* difference. First time outside, I let go and he bikes the whole block. V low effort after the balance bike”
Interesting. Tried putting my then two-year-old on a balance bike, and she wasn’t having it. Now a bit over three and riding a tricycle just fine, with plans of moving to bike-with-training-wheels within a month (and hopefully a short time on the trainers). I’m hoping that her scooter-riding skills (think equal parts Chris Miller and the Gonz) translate into easy biking.
speaking of balance and co-ordination are those tight ropes as popular up there as they are down here… usually things get copied from the States. They are everywhere down here right now.
“Most of the $250k folks spend $400-$650k. PITIs usually around $3000-$5000.””
My theory is that is there aren’t enough high income households to support the number of high income homes for sale. That comes from a very famous quote from an old book about the roaring 1920’s which I willl ever so graciously repost for you today:
‘Home, Sweet Florida’
“And exactly as the developers of the tropical wonderlands of Florida had learned that there were more land- speculators able and willing to gamble in houses intended for the polo- playing class than there were members of this class, so also those who carved out playgrounds for the rich in North Carolina or elsewhere learned to their ultimate sorrow that the rich could not play everywhere at once. And once more the downfall of their bright hopes had financial repercussions, as bankrupt developments led to the closing of bank after bank.”
These home sellers are trying to sell to the polo paying class, yet, the rich cannot be everywhere at once, and certainly, they do not want to be *here*.
And helmet, the $700k homes considered acceptable are and were usually 80% to 90% financing, and before ZIRP, they were almost exclusively ARMs and IO. In 2004 the difference between and IO ARM and a conventional loan could be a couple thousand a month. The jumbos and super jumbos are most commonly ARMs anyway.
There are plenty of rich people, believe me, plenty of rich people, but just never enough to soak up all the upper class inventory.
And never forget the vanity of some of these high end buyers – many of them bought ugly mcmansions, or brand names, or new ugly construction with ugly facades – they don’t think twice about paying 36% of their gross income towards the mortgage.
HD.. you just take the fun out of the word “leverage”, I could only imagine what a downer you would be at a strip club in Houston.
“My theory is that is there aren’t enough high income households to support the number of high income homes for sale”
wrong theory,
there arent any move up buyers with enough equity to support the higher priced homes for sale.
for the 100000nth time, some ones income is not the sole factor on what or what not they can afford.
I know this building well, after living close by for a 10 year period.
It’s nice enough, but it compares unfavorably in architecture, space, or building amenity (almost none besides a doorman) to 3700 N Lake Shore, 3500 N Lake Shore, or 3800 N Lake Shore. Those buildings have more attractive units in this size range, and 3700 has its beautiful indoor pool and exercise room.. for assessments no higher for the same amount of space. Aesthetically, it compares badly to 3500 N LSD or 3800 N LSD, or 421 W Melrose, or for that matter, 2440 N Lakeview. Oh, and there is the 3950 N LSD building which has units just as big and far more beautiful.
It has space where you really don’t even want it, like in the oversized kitchen, but not where you could really use it, like in a nice library in addition to all the beds, or in a really large bathroom.
$500K.
“some ones income is not the sole factor on what or what not they can afford.”
No, but its probably, by far, the most important criteria. Other than super high end cash deals, or investors, or FHA 5%’ers; most of the market is conventional loans with 10, 20 or 25%. The newly minted partner, the doctor, the accountant, consultant in the green zone in the $800k home has $80, or $160k as a down payment, and finances the rest with a jumbo or super jumbo loan. income in the $200-$300 range. I see it all the time, everywhere.
“Tried putting my then two-year-old on a balance bike, and she wasn’t having it. Now a bit over three and riding a tricycle just fine, with plans of moving to bike-with-training-wheels within a month (and hopefully a short time on the trainers).”
Maybe she’d try the balance bike now? Some of the balance bikes are way too heavy (and with high centers of mass). The skuuts in particular are idiotic. Some of the kid beginner bikes are heavy too.
“he newly minted partner, the doctor, the accountant, consultant in the green zone in the $800k home has $80, or $160k as a down payment, and finances the rest with a jumbo or super jumbo loan. income in the $200-$300 range. I see it all the time, everywhere.”
For someone doing 250k with positive outlook.. Totally acceptable.. Particularly in Ze’s world where P is a cash flow issue but not an expense. ..
“$800k home has $80, or $160k as a down payment”
but again just assuming that they cant cover the full 800k is really only reading one page of a book and saying you know the whole thing. i am not saying you are not correct as more often than not its the case. but i give you myself for example each time if you CCRD/Linked-in me you will assume a picture that is not even close to fact. CCRD will only gives one piece of a 1,000,000 piece puzzle and linked-in will only give you one more piece. now you have only two pieces to come to an incorrect assumption then the HD in you extrapolates that across the chicagoland population.
“the $800k home has $80, or $160k as a down payment, and finances the rest with a jumbo or super jumbo loan. income in the $200-$300 range.”
Sure, but in an SFH, a piti of $7500 easily covers a $1.25m loan, with change to pay for your heating bill.
That $800k house, with 20% down, runs about $4k/mo–including the P piece. So that would satisfy Ze, even w/o much postive outlook.
(so not so much that little CH needs to step it up, failing is more with regular CH).
that’s it, I’m going home later and taking the training wheels and pedals off to make a balance bike. she will be riding wheelies down the block by the weekend
“there arent any move up buyers with enough equity to support the higher priced homes for sale.”
The prices of the “acceptable” SFH in the Green Zone have not fallen below $700K, which Russ says is typically above the price a buyer making $250K spends, so therefore those buying the GZ SFHs are making more than $250K.
“The prices of the “acceptable” SFH in the Green Zone have not fallen below $700K, which Russ says is typically above the price a buyer making $250K spends, so therefore those buying the GZ SFHs are making more than $250K.”
That’s not true. There are plenty of SFHs in the GZ priced under $700k. Plenty (and yes “acceptable.”) You won’t find them in LP though. But you can find them in Lakeview, North Center, Lincoln Square and Bucktown.
They are usually smaller- like a 2 or 3 bedroom vintage house with a small basement. You’d get more for your money if you bought for the same price in the inner suburbs- but that’s the “premium” paid on the good neighborhoods in the city.
Otherwise- for $500,000 you are probably limited to 3 bedroom condos and townhouses in the GZ.
“They are usually smaller- like a 2 or 3 bedroom vintage house with a small basement.”
Those are not considered “acceptable” GZ houses. They’re either new construction or full rehab w/ finished basement, 3 bds. up, newer kitchen. There are tons of them, and according to Russ, people who make $250K cannot afford them and aren’t buying them. I’d say $800K is the true cut-off these days for an acceptable GZ house. Therefore, there must be more $300K incomes out there than HD wants to admit. where’s clio?
“Therefore, there must be more $300K incomes out there than HD wants to admit. where’s clio?”
There has to be more than I thought previously if these 1.2MM+ new construction SFHs keep moving. They have been up until now. Either that or the ol’ funny financing, which I would think would be harder these days.
“Those are not considered “acceptable” GZ houses. They’re either new construction or full rehab w/ finished basement, 3 bds. up, newer kitchen.”
I don’t agree at all. I know a couple who just bought a $625,000 3-bedroom house on a great block in Bucktown. It has the granite, stainless yada-yada-yada. Why isn’t that “acceptable”???
Of course it is. They don’t have $300k salaries either. They may have about $225k combined though (husband and wife- no kids yet.) There are plenty of houses in those price ranges that are considered a move up from a condo. These aren’t the millionaires buying those houses. The 1% are buying the $1.2 to $1.5 million house in Lakeview, for instance.
The interesting thing is that the new construction $1 million+ homes ARE selling but the ones they built during the boom that come back on the market aren’t selling nearly as fast (and sometimes not at all.) You can get a much better deal on slightly older construction. But all the buyers want “new.” Even if they’re overpaying.
“Therefore, there must be more $300K incomes out there than HD wants to admit. where’s clio?”
How many of these have sold in, say, Lakeview so far this year?
20? Maybe???
Is that a lot of $300k incomes?
First of all – don’t call out their names c or s h or j z or
D who is reincarnated anyways here already…
And to nitpick the 1% are more likely into the 1.8+++ range for Sfh and more likely looking at the GC NATE B and Streeter high rises
“gringozecarioca (May 22, 2012, 2:31 pm)
speaking of balance and co-ordination are those tight ropes as popular up there as they are down here… usually things get copied from the States. They are everywhere down here right now.”
what are these tight ropes you speak of?
“what are these tight ropes you speak of?”
You don’t have one of these set up for little CH yet? Step. It. Up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDTwQGEeGZc
“You don’t have one of these set up for little CH yet? Step. It. Up.”
WOW
thats is some cool stuff. I love things that get kids off computers and video games, even if its in exchange for a few broken bones.
but come on, man up, the line is to low to the ground, raise that thing an make the prospect of falling a vital consequence
This building is a co-op, so nobody is getting in with a 10% downpayment.
The buyer will be a well-off family with a substantial amount of cash, who can also spend big to renovate and redecorate, and not feel the assessments.
And they will want a better deal for their money than this