This 4-Bedroom New Contemporary Is Listed For $799K But There’s A Catch: 4511 N. Wolcott In Lincoln Square
This 4-bedroom new construction contemporary at 4511 N. Wolcott in Lincoln Square came on the market January 2, 2013.
It’s on an oversized lot measuring 25×152 and has a 2-car garage.
Three of the four bedrooms are on the second floor and the fourth is on the main level.
The lower level has a large 55×18 family room with a bathroom.
The listing says it has an “open floor plan” and modern cabinetry along with a floating staircase.
There are no pictures of the interior with the listing but we’ve seen enough of the new construction contemporaries to have an inkling of what it looks like.
This house is listed at $799,000.
What’s the catch?
The brown line El tracks run directly behind it.
The house that stood in this location before was on the market for 2 years before finally selling in August of 2012 for $170,000.
A Redfin agent who has toured the new property says there are very few windows in the back of the house.
I have linked to the floorplan below so you can see for yourself. The deck on the second story actually belongs to the master bedroom.
Will this be a hard sell at this price?
Or will the “newness” trump the El track?
Karen Biazar at the North Clybourn Group has the listing. See the floorplan here.
Or see it at the Open House this Sunday, February 24 from 11:00 AM to 12:30 PM.
4511 N. Wolcott: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 3200 square feet, 2 car garage
- Previous house sold in August 2012 for $170,000
- Originally listed in January 2013 for $799,000
- Currently still listed for $799,000
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 16×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 11×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 10×13 (main floor)
“Will this be a hard sell at this price?
Or will the “newness” trump the El track?”
These are not mutually exclusive. I think it’s ambitiously priced. Drop it 125k and someone will put up with the El tracks
If the room dimensions on the floor plan are remotely accurate, I don’t know how they get to 3200 sf. Basement is the biggest floor, and it does not appear to be over 1000. Even counting the balcony areas, still short.
“These are not mutually exclusive. I think it’s ambitiously priced. Drop it 125k and someone will put up with the El tracks.”
That’s the dilemma for this builder right? At some point, the price WILL outweigh the el tracks. We’ve seen it before on CribChatter. Remember that house in Lincoln Park for like $450,000 which was completely remodeled (with the front porch) but was on the El? It went under contract in 3 days.
But what’s the magic price to get someone to put up with the El?
For $799,000 you could have bought that house in Burley on Oakdale that we just chattered about.
If i’m gonna pay 800k for a house on the El tracks, it better be in sopo (max), LP, LV, OT, or RN
not Lincoln square
“But There’s A Catch” What’s the catch?”
well there are a few
1. its 799k for a place in lincoln square ON the el tracks right by a sharp bend!
2. is it really lincoln square this east and south?
3. good luck finding street parking IIRC this block is heavy on apartments
4.nothing like having the “stick out like sore thumb” of the neighborhood
5. and when did [border of] LS start commanding this type of pricing?
6. when did contemporary start having front porches? (well i do like thier application of it) and what kind of front porch swing will be acceptable?
7. and the most annoying of it all. how in the F do you have 3200sqft and end up with a bedroom size of
11×12, 11×10 and a master only 16×14????????????????
Agree on all points groove!
” is it really lincoln square this east and south?”
Yes, technically. Bet any longtermer on the block sez they live in Ravenswood.
“when did [border of] LS start commanding this type of pricing?”
2003?
“when did contemporary start having front porches?”
It’s not a front porch–entry on the side–it’s a terrace; and it’s kinda contemporary prairie, which makes it kinda okay.
“how in the F do you have 3200sqft and end up with a bedroom size ”
1. Not actually 3200; 2. 3200 counts basement; 3. (per cc rules) who needs bigger bedrooms?
Floorplan is weird. BR on main floor? Why not move the family room to the main floor and put the fourth BR downstairs?
“Floorplan is weird. BR on main floor? Why not move the family room to the main floor and put the fourth BR downstairs?”
I disagree. The floorplan is great for a family with two kids. Sleeping rooms all upstairs, office in the back of the house and the Living/Dining combined with kitchen all opened up. The “family room” is the basement. Great for toys and crap that kids have. You could add a BR down there for guests etc. Formal dining and living rooms are not needed. You could fit 12 in the dining space that you use everyday in this space configuration.
“Yes, technically. Bet any longtermer on the block sez they live in Ravenswood.”
i considered east of damen the same thing, ravenswood
“2003?”
yes the large victorians in the area did command big prices back that far but a odd places like this on train tracks or a basic stick house shouldnt get these prices
“It’s not a front porch–entry on the side–it’s a terrace; and it’s kinda contemporary prairie, which makes it kinda okay.”
I really like it and its very well done, but under the impression “terrace” is not to be on the front facade? side and back but considering its chicago cant do side.
“1. Not actually 3200; 2. 3200 counts basement; 3. (per cc rules) who needs bigger bedrooms?”
wait is this a Mario Greco listing? are the *terrace and back yard counted too?
per my own rules you dont need bigger bedrooms just saying who do you only get 3 small bedrooms on one floor if your working with 2 floors equaling 3200sqft (said before learning they count the basment and garage in the sqft)
I also like that there’s a ‘terrace”/porch or whatever up front. You could put a grill out there and when you have a party everything is accessible, outside, family room, kitchen and when you are outside you don’t have to look into the alley. In this case, make it the EL. Althought i’m sure it’s pretty quiet since the EL is on a bend so it should be going slow but you’d have to be there to judge for yourself.
” Althought i’m sure it’s pretty quiet since the EL is on a bend”
Huh?!? Never been under one of the borwnline bends when a train passes by, I guess.
“Huh?!? Never been under one of the borwnline bends when a train passes by, I guess.”
Quieter than a train going full speed. It’s not silent, just quieter and could be manageable if your’e not a complete whiney…
” Althought i’m sure it’s pretty quiet since the EL is on a bend”
This made me think of the Redflin Agent Tour Insight I saw recently: “nice yard…street noise when outside.”
“Quieter than a train going full speed”
Different sound. Yes, fewer decibels, but higher pitched, which annoys *me* far, far more.
And, in any case, describing it as “pretty quiet” is … optimistic, unless one is basically deaf to the squealing wheels.
“Quieter than a train going full speed. It’s not silent, just quieter and could be manageable if your’e not a complete whiney…”
umm, full speed is quieter and quicker! the bends (and stations) is where you get the grinding, squealing, and the sound for a longer period of time due to the low speed and it just changing direction not acctually getting further away
“stations… is where you get the grinding, squealing, and the sound for a longer period of time ”
Oh, also close enough to the Metra stop that you’ll get some of the slow down/start up effects, too.
That said, I’m not as anti-next-to-train as most here. Just not … optimistic … about the reality of the noise level. Do think it’s priced in to the ask (of course, partly by building a smaller place on the lot; same lot across the street gets a bigger house, and asks $1.1m+).
The el is so much louder than people want to admit. I think the majority of people who own homes near the el did not ride it regularly to school, work, etc. If they did, I’d be surprised if the wanted to settle down next to it. As a life-long chicagoan, I do not have fond memories of taking it to school and work. That being said, I’ve rented next to it, and it was much more intrusive than I ever admitted to my friends.
However, you know some chump will be swayed by the newness. If I had to buy this, I would keep it as a rental property only.
I commute via el and have lived about a block and a half away from it (with a lovely view of the tracks out my back window). I didn’t think it was all that terrible, honestly, and the brown line doesn’t even run for several hours at night (or it didn’t several years ago, anyway – I guess you couldn’t count on that staying the same forever).
I like the design of this place, but if I remember correctly this stretch of Wolcott is mostly brick apartment buildings and it seems like this house would stick out like a sore thumb.
This is Ravenswood, not LS. I have a friend who once lived around the corner from this place and they never would have called it LS.
And I agree that this house must stick out like a sore thumb. I wish they’d build modern homes to match the neighborhood better.
Full speed 8 car brown line = fricking super LOUD for about 15 seconds
8 car brown line on turn = screeching for what seems like 2 minutes
Pick your poison
“this stretch of Wolcott is mostly brick apartment buildings”
ok, looking at the aerial, the corner isn’t going to affect this backyard much. It’s sandwiched (with another house/2-flat) bt a big 4+ story brick apartment to the north (goes almost back to the el alley; garages behind) and 4 houses fronting Sunnyside. Probably gets some reflected sound from the Montrose stop, tho.
Wonder if they kept the tree in back?
I think we’ve reached the Crib Chatter Trifecta on this one:
1) Is it really in X neighborhood Debate?
This is Ravenswood, not LS — check
2) Proximity to the El factor.
Althought i’m sure it’s pretty quiet since the EL is on a bend — check
3) Questing the Sq Footage.
I don’t know how they get to 3200 sf. oh it’s a Mario Greco listing.
ding, ding, ding!
“This is Ravenswood, not LS. I have a friend who once lived around the corner from this place and they never would have called it LS.”
It is in the LS community area. Always has been.
For a family of 2, at this price, there are places like 1524 Oakdale (good elem; no el in back) and the RH on Deming near Clark (decent elem; LP and 1.5 blocks to the park), neither of which is “new” but both of which offer more in terms of lifestyle, school, etc. Otherwise, whether this place is in LS or Rwood, once one is going to all that trouble to get to and fro, the $700k’s seem more attractive in Evanston.
That was my comment yesterday on the Lakeview home anonny. Have I lost all city cred thinking it twice in two days?
Have you guys seen what new-build homes are going for in prime Lincoln Square these days? $1 mil+; check out Eric Rojas’ blog for some recent entries on the market. People are paying almost 500K for tear-downs just across from the El tracks. I think the price is actually pretty good on this one. Not my cup of tea, not my style, not my favorite block, and not a great school district, but I think it will go for close to asking. LS is very desirable (CC preferences for LP, LV, SOPO be damned) — kids and families everywhere, and I honestly do think the schools will improve in the next 10 years.
“Have I lost all city cred thinking it twice in two days?”
Yep. Sorry.
“I honestly do think the schools will improve in the next 10 years”
McPherson is on the way up. But, what happens to Trumbull, Stockton and the other Uptown elementaries on the potential closing list matters a great deal to McPherson and Ravenswood, among others.
“Yep. Sorry.”
Oh, well. I still live and work in the city (at least for now).
The truly underenrolled schools are on the South and West sides, where AA population loss was massive last decade. CPS will likely close a token northside school, maybe one in Uptown. Trumbull is mostly special ed, it’s underenrollment if due to state mandates for SPED class size, it likely isn’t closing.
“Oh, well. I still live and work in the city (at least for now).”
I’m pleased to report that I still live in the city and will for the foreseeable future.
“People are paying almost 500K for tear-downs just across from the El tracks.”
“I think the price is actually pretty good on this one. Not my cup of tea, not my style, not my favorite block, and not a great school district”
HD special: $629,000 Walk to pool, Community Center, Washington, Lincoln, Maine South.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1860-W-Crescent-Ave-60068/home/13642590
New Trier schools: $675,000 This spacious home is located in convenient Hubbard Woods; walk to Corwin Park, downtown Hubbard Woods, Metra and Hubbard Woods Elementary.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Winnetka/1507-Tower-Rd-60093/home/13788638
“People are paying almost 500K for tear-downs just across from the El tracks.”
“I think the price is actually pretty good on this one. Not my cup of tea, not my style, not my favorite block, and not a great school district”
HD special: $629,000 Walk to pool, Community Center, Washington, Lincoln, Maine South.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/1860-W-Crescent-Ave-60068/home/13642590
New Trier schools: $675,000 This spacious home is located in convenient Hubbard Woods; walk to Corwin Park, downtown Hubbard Woods, Metra and Hubbard Woods Elementary.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Winnetka/1507-Tower-Rd-60093/home/13788638
“Trumbull is mostly special ed”
31.6% =/= ‘mostly’
“It is in the LS community area. Always has been.”
Community areas are not neighborhoods.
the park ridge house is a pretty nice split. however it is a bit pricy for a split and even in the last month or so most homes are selling in teh $300’s and $400’s. The median house price in PR is much less than the north shore although the price per sq foot is similar. Included with that however is a small lot, and a smaller house. the north shore is more desirable but you generally get more for your money. nice looking house though although I don’t like the attached garage looking like that.
I predict you bought a Michael John ranch, updated it from the 1960’s.
“Community areas are not neighborhoods.”
The title sez “In Lincoln Square”; D2 said “This is Ravenswood, not LS.” No one until you defined community area v neighborhood.
The CA v Hood thing is like arguing that a house in Chicago is not in Cook County: they can both be true. This house is ‘in’ Lincoln Sq and ‘in’ Ravenswood, and ‘in’ McPherson and ‘in’ Amundsen, and ‘in’ Chicago, and ‘in’ Cook.
“This house is ‘in’ Lincoln Sq and ‘in’ Ravenswood, and ‘in’ McPherson and ‘in’ Amundsen, and ‘in’ Chicago, and ‘in’ Cook.”
But is it in the Lincoln Sq neighborhood (if there be such a thing)?
“But is it in the Lincoln Sq neighborhood (if there be such a thing)?”
1. There *is* *definitely* such a thing.
2. I would say it is not.
@fo: since I feel we are once and for all time on the verge of resolving the great “where is this” Q:
1. Can neighborhoods overlap? Not neighborhoods overlap w sub-neighborhoods, but neighborhoods overlap w neighborhoods.
2. Is every place in Chicago in a neighborhood?
“1. Can neighborhoods overlap? Not neighborhoods overlap w sub-neighborhoods, but neighborhoods overlap w neighborhoods.
2. Is every place in Chicago in a neighborhood?”
1. What’s the difference bt a “neighborhood” and a “sub-neighborhood”? Is Nonny-ville a sub-neighborhood of (not really a neighborhood) ELP, which is a sub-neighborhood of (the Jay-approved version of) Lincoln Park, all within the LP Community Area? Is there not overlap bt NortHalsted/Boystown and East LV? Are they both (or just one?) sub-hoods? A’ville and Glenwwod-Balmoral? OTT and Old Town and “Lincoln Park-the-hood”? Graceland West and Ravenswood? Are hot-school attendance areas a sub-hood? What hood or sub-hood describes the Coonley area (NorthCenter sux as anything other than a Community Area descriptor). What is SoPo (aside from annoying?)?
2. Ask a realtor, yes. Ask a longtime resident of the subject area, probably. Ask most here, no. Me, enh, depends whether one admits to West Lakeview and similar being ‘neighborhoods’, rather than marketing/sign-posting terms. If they’re deemed neighborhoods, maybe; if not, no chance.
The Coonley area might really be one of the more cognizale tests–it’s a genuine, descrete, neighborhood-y area (roughly Ravenswood to the River, IPR to Montrose), but what does anyone call it (aside from NorthCenter, which sux)? East of Damen (perhaps even over to Lincoln) can readily be part of ‘Ravenswood’ (which could apply to everything bt Ashland and Damen, from the river to Bryn Mawr/Rosehill), the rest of it could be ‘Welles Park South’ (or SoWell), but that’s so bad it makes SoPo sound vaguely magesterial.
“descrete”
discrete
“What’s the difference bt a “neighborhood” and a “sub-neighborhood”?”
Well, I dunno, I think you introduced the distinction to me. But natural defn would say when there are competing hoods, the largest candidate area gets call the top level s[i]-hood (s=0,…n) available. I have v little awareness of “NortHalsted/Boystown and East LV” but do believe they should have to fight it out if they are same level hoods.
“Are hot-school attendance areas a sub-hood? What hood or sub-hood describes the Coonley area”
I think you answered your own questions. Coonley it is. C’mon, isn’t Bell taking over from St Bens? We could just use all the elem attendance areas for some level of hood. They are defined and not overlapping for same grade afaik.
“s=0,…n”
I meant i=0,…,n. Just wanted to get that in before bob shows me up.
I think this house will sell in the $750-$775k range. A few homes sold in the neighborhood last summer between $700k-$730k that were 20+ years old and needed updating. Someone will pay a premium for new construction, despite the L.
Argue all you want but nodody east of Damen would call this LS. I live close to this house and have always considered the area Ravenswood.
“Icarus (February 20, 2013, 1:58 pm)
I’m pleased to report that I still live in the city and will for the foreseeable future.
Rating: +3 (from 9 votes)”
I guess 6 people like you in the city and 3 don’t. I was on the positive side. HD was probably on the negative…..
““descrete”
discrete”
You missed some other typos there, Bobbo. Why that one, only?
Then again, some of us may be old enough to remember when a “neighborhood” was popularly defined by the local Catholic parish, even by non-Catholics. North Center is still called “St. Ben’s,” but for some reason we no longer call Lincoln Square “St. Matthias” or Lakeview “Mt. Carmel.”
Nelson Algren, of German Jewish heritage, described his South Side childhood in the “St. Columbanis” neighborhood in his classic “Chicago: City on the Make.” He later lived in Our Lady of Peace, St. Stanislaus Kostka and St. Mary of the Angels.
“I was on the positive side. HD was probably on the negative…..”
I ain’t got nuthin’ against the city; it’s just that it made zero sense for me to stay there, given $500,000 or more home prices in the GZ; 25×125 lots; marginal schools, petty crime, congestion and taxes. Now I live in an area where I can go to the city whenever I want and it’s just a short drive away. By a short Drive I mean driving 10 minutes from long grove down lake cook road, to highway 53 south for 20 minutes, to 90 and it’s only a 30 minute drive from there.
The lot may be “oversized”, but it’s oversized in the wrong dimension. A 25′ wide lot is still pretty cramped, no matter how long it is.
“A 25? wide lot is still pretty cramped, no matter how long it is.”
Huh, you new to Chicago?
Vlajos, my point being, they’re ALL pretty much 25′ standard, so I was objecting to the “oversized” adjective that Sabrina used. The extra 27′ only add to the tax burden.
It’s 25×152
“The extra 27? only add to the tax burden”
The land AV is 12,240. Even if it’s exactly proportionate (it’s not) that’d be a reduction of 2,176–about 5.8%, from the 2012 value–which would translate into about $300 of savings. Assuming that the AV for the structure goes up once this sells, it would be an even smaller percentage difference.
I’d gladly pay an extra ~$300/year for an extra 675 sf of lot. But you’re right–I’d rather have it as 5′ of side yard.
“I’d rather have it as 5? of side yard.”
Really? Even if the house doesn’t really take advantage of the width? Having an extra 25×25 space in the back isn’t better than a 5×65 (or whatev) side lot, an extra 5 of width to your actual 40 deep yard and an extra 5×20 (or howev deep garage is)? I see houses where it feels like extra width is wasted. I’d still take it versus nothing, but doesn’t seem clearly better than an extra solid square path of yard in the back.
“doesn’t seem clearly better than an extra solid square path of yard in the back.”
Yeah, not *clearly* better, but still my preference.
“doesn’t seem clearly better than an extra solid square path of yard in the back.”
One advantage of having more property line sideways is if you ever wanted to expand, say your dining room, you can do a bump out. The likelihood is probably low but i suppose it’s nice to have the option.
“and I honestly do think the schools will improve in the next 10 years.”
so what are the vegas odds of that?
and please explain why now(future) and it hasnt in the last 10?
“please explain why now(future) and it hasnt in the last 10?”
Which GZ school is not better now than 10 years ago?
Remember, on theCC, it’s not about average or typical Chicago, and it sas ain’t about school options in Englewood or Garfield Park.
The GZ options for HS *will* be better in 10 years, barring economic collapse.
“Which GZ school is not better now than 10 years ago? ”
Genoooouuuuinnnnne Q. What prop of (all) cps elems are not better than 10 years ago (by test scores)?
“What prop of (all) cps elems are not better than 10 years ago (by test scores)?”
Very small, I think, due to emphasis on getting scores up, but idk. Vlajos?
“Remember, on theCC, it’s not about average or typical Chicago, and it sas ain’t about school options in Englewood or Garfield Park.”
then disregard my question as i was talking whole CPS not just yuppie CPS.
still having a hard time understanding why bucktown/wikerpark schools are behind on the Yuppie CPS curve? i get logan as its *revival is about 7-10 years after the bt/wp and its new and still not fully yuppie’d yet.
“then disregard my question as i was talking whole CPS not just yuppie CPS.”
Yeah, no one here is seriously talking about the whole system, just how it will work for “people like us/me”. Wanna talk about that, gotta go to a CPS-focused blog.
“The GZ options for HS *will* be better in 10 years, barring economic collapse.”
thats a gamble i ponder, the elems i can see but the HS’s i am becoming more doubtful. just from my time when i was a teenage lad the “acceptable” HS’s have shrunk but the SEHS have gained a few more.
for an average kid he will be screwed in the cps system no mater the parents involvement.
i see the push for another acceptable HS but cant see more than one in the next 7 years
“i see the push for another acceptable HS but cant see more than one in the next 7 years”
Hard push going on *rightnow* with LVHS, Senn, (and several other irrelevant to *people like me*) and lesser extent Amundsen. VonSteuben certainly ‘acceptable’ (if kinda inconvenient) for ‘typical’ (ie, maybe not quite for PLM/SWPL) Chicagoan now.
“Senn”
you are the 5th person to say this about Seen. i just dont see it, last time seen was acceptable was in the 70’s.
“VonSteuben certainly ‘acceptable”
always been a good choice
“LVHS”
was going down hill when i was a teen and considering the neighborhood changes i can see that one.
“Amundsen”
nope nope and nope the hood demographics need to change way more in that short time to get that going.
“Taft”
highly inconvenient for yuppies, but we will be able to see in 6 years if this full IB makes it an option again.
the thing is it wont be a neighborhood HS that will change it will be another SEHS or a thing like taft going full IB that will change in a short 10 years.
its all a gamble at this point and folk who dont have the pockets or mobility should not take
“a thing like taft going full IB ”
Or, ya know, like Senn going full IB? Or LVHS going full STEM? Things are *trying* to change fast, and some (hopefully a lot) of it will stick.
Amundsen is basically Ashland to the river, Montrose to Bryn Mawr (+ Coonley)–where’s the hood demo that needs to change dramatically? Maybe the West of Western, North of Lawrence part?
Clemente is doing wtw IB, too, but I’m not being a pollyanna.
I actually toured this house during our recent SFH search.
Street parking is a joke.
The el was actually pretty far behind the property, but you could hear it.
The front terrace was useless. You were totally on displace for all the neighbors to watch.
Lower level was odd. You couldn’t really add a useful extra office or bedroom.
The people in the house directly next door (to the north) had a yard that resembled a toy junk yard. $hit EVERYWHERE. No thanks.
I was not impressed with this property in the least and am not surprised it is still on the market.
“Or, ya know, like Senn going full IB? ”
wait i missed that???????
so how many schools went “wall to wall” IB? (i hate that phrase too)
Taft…
http://www.nadignewspapers.com/stories/taft-high-school-becomes-ib.html
“wait i missed that???????”
Yep:
http://www.cps.edu/News/Press_releases/Pages/12_13_2012_PR3.aspx
“Taft High School and Lincoln Park High School join Senn, Clemente, Hyde Park and Back of the Yards high schools as new wall-to-wall IB schools, beginning in the 2013-2014 school year.”
‘course, Senn is still home to Rickover, too.
“‘course, Senn is still home to Rickover, too.”
Thats the fancy ROTC right?
still dont think it will help Clemente HS
“Trumbull is mostly special ed, it’s underenrollment if due to state mandates for SPED class size, it likely isn’t closing.”
Told ya so:
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20130321/andersonville/trumbull-school-on-cps-closings-list-parents-say
and from another article: “Trumbull Local School Council member Ali Burke … said the school will be closed “outright,” not consolidated, and that its special education students will be split between McPherson, McCutcheon and Chappelle elementary schools.”
You were right. It actually makes a lot of sense in retrospect. The property is probably worth something.