Trying to Flip One Month Later: 5755 N. Melvina in Norwood Park
This 3-bedroom English Cottage home at 5755 N. Melvina in Norwood Park was bank owned in March 2010 and then sold by the bank in June 2010.
Just a little over one month later, it has returned to the market for $104,900 more than the previous purchase price.
Two out of the three bedrooms are on the main floor and the master bedroom is on the second floor.
There is also a finished family room in the basement.
The house has central air and a 2-car garage.
The listing says there is an “all new” kitchen with stainless steel appliances, granite counter tops and a glass backsplash but if you look at the pictures of the previous sold listing, you can see that the cabinets, counter top and sink all appear to be the same.
At least one of the bathrooms has seen a big transformation, but, again, looking at the old listing pictures, it appears that the large bathroom was left relatively intact. (If you are registered on Redfin, you can see the pictures in the old listing under the previous history links at the bottom of the current listing.)
Buyers want new.
Is this priced to sell given the other nearby un-renovated competition in Norwood Park?
Izabela Sloma at Sergio and Banks has the listing. See the pictures here.
5755 N Melvina: 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in October 1990 for $130,500
- Sold in February 1996 for $180,000
- Lis pendens filed in March 2007
- Bank owned in March 2010
- Sold in June 2010 for $225,000
- Currently listed for $329,900
- Taxes of $4739
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 9×22 (second level)
- Bedroom #2: 10×11 (main level)
- Bedroom #3: 10×11 (main level)
- Family room/Basement: 22×26
Get real. When will people realize that they cannot flip a house for a 6 figure profit in 30 days in this market anymore!!!???
Well, to contradict that, there are a lot of ignorant buyers out there and this is a foreclosure…
nice, if I had kids I’d consider it, isn’t norwood a good school zone?
“isn’t norwood a good school zone”
I was just looking this up, b/c I was fairly sure Norwood Park Elem did not extend past NW highway. Local elem is Hitch, which I had never heard of before. Scores seem ok, not good/great.
Anyone know anything about this neighborhood? It’s a bit removed from Old Norwood.
Couldn’t live on Melvina. Nor Paulina nor Lunt.
“Anyone know anything about this neighborhood? It’s a bit removed from Old Norwood”
its not norwood park elem, but the area is just as great. just think ouf it as old norwwod for the real folk (without the 50×200 lot victorians)
“Couldn’t live on Melvina. Nor Paulina nor Lunt.”
sonds do dirty reading it 🙂
so how much do you think the “flipper” out into this?
paint- 1k
powder room- 3k
add appliances in kitchen- 2k
floors- 4k
some updates to master bath-2k
all other cosmetic stuff-3k
well it looks like they added A/C?
hmmmmm 70k profit for 30 days isnt bad? (if it sells quick)
“sonds do dirty reading it ”
Wait. You haven’t heard the joke? It’s inappropriate enough to be deletion fodder.
“sonds do dirty reading it”
sounds so dirty reading it. (i really should proof read)
oops i typed faster than my brain reads.
I can’t imagine how one would furnish, or sleep for that matter, in a 9 X 22 bedroom, esp with severely sloped ceilings that make it almost useless.
Agree, who in their right mind would even THINK of flipping this place for a $104,900. profit, in this market, simply for the cache of them being the previous owner. To realize any sort of profit at all is hard to do.
I see it everyday here in NY, but is usually is a celebutante or some other ridiculous person.
does it really matter how much money the person put into this flip? If it suits your needs/style and the work is already done, it could be worth much more to a busy family than to buy a crappy house that needs renovation.
has anyone posting here ever done real renovations?!! Do you guys realize the time, effort, headaches and unexpected costs involved?
Seriously, ask anyone who has done or gone through renovations about the process – many DO pay a premium to have everything done.
“has anyone posting here ever done real renovations?!! Do you guys realize the time, effort, headaches and unexpected costs involved?”
Phew am I ever beat after working for a month, time to cash in my $100k.
I’m writing that only partially in jest
“Phew am I ever beat after working for a month, time to cash in my $100k”
It is not 100k – more like 25k at best (which will keep being slashed with each month on the market). Don’t you read the other posts – ALT just “scolded” me on another post b/c I didn’t pay attention to the “8% loss” a seller has when closing (b/c of commissions and closing costs). don’t let me get him on YOUR case!!
Sorry, Clio.
I was oversimplifying for shock purposes!
does anyone else think that the kitchens and baths seem a bit out of place for this older style home?
Money aside I agree that some will pay a premium for “done work” but I do think that many people will object to the home depot finishes and $100K plus appreciation in such a short time.
“has anyone posting here ever done real renovations?!! Do you guys realize the time, effort, headaches and unexpected costs involved?”
look above at my quick estimate of reno costs. I rounded up highly for each to account for, unexpected crap.
dooode the powder room was a complete gut. and at most with new pipe and running 220 electrical, to a consumer getting qoutes it will be 4k-5k to a “flipper” or a westloop with his own staff of laborers it would be tops a 2k job and a 2 day job only because waiting for tile to set.
so at most i estimate 15k of work done.
so you as a “experianced” person in the biz you really think end of day its only 25k return? i think your light on that
Groove:
You may have missed my tip–tell your fam they need to re-apply for the senior exemption every year now. I *think* they’re okay for this year, but will need to submit their form next year.
“so you as a “experianced” person in the biz you really think end of day its only 25k return? i think your light on that”
As an “experienced” person in the business, I also take into account carrying costs, closing costs, commissions, and discounted offers (as we all know that nobody is going to offer 329k for this property). This flipper probably realized that a realistic offer is going to be in the upper 200s and may take up to 6 months to sell. My 25k is on the “generous” side.
“As an “experienced” person in the business, I also take into account carrying costs, closing costs, commissions, and discounted offers (as we all know that nobody is going to offer 329k for this property).”
Yes but being in the biz, would lend you to a freind or family member agent listing for you (discount there) have a attorney on retainer (more of a discount there). carrying cost on a SFH is relatively small (if carried short term). even with a 300k closing a 25k ROI estimate is still light.
anon,
i cuaght the reply and responed, thank you again on the tip.
hey i am not knocking the “flipper” because if they did not come along this place may have sat in disrepair for a while and been an eyesore to the hood. they also employ people to do the work.
and some people want new but dont want the war zone of remodeling while trying to take a shower and the water is cut off of the day.
so the “flipper” is actually helping the community and economy!
another house right down the block from me.hitch is the school here.not all that great.this guy is overpriced too.and i never even saw that this was in foreclosure.flipper must have insider info.i would say he gets $285 for it.and who knows if he did the work right.
Remember everyone: its perfectly OK to lie in real estate sales so long as you don’t put it in writing.
Sergio & Banks, a client of ours, is not the “flipper” and this is not a flip. It’s a rehab.
If “Sabrina” had posted on 3745 N Octavia, from the same builder, you all would likely have engaged in the same ill-informed speculation based on acquisition / resale price / timetable.
If you’d seen the home, and known the scale of work that went on, the discussion would take on a different turn. You can watch video from Octavia here, and stay tuned for the video I shoot at Melvina Friday morning:
http://yochicago.com/a4-bedroom-3-%c2%bd-bath-in-dunning-square-under-280k/16092/
“Sergio & Banks, a client of ours, is not the “flipper” and this is not a flip. It’s a rehab.”
What’s the difference between a flip and a rehab?
If you only paint the interiors- is that a flip?
If you just put in new appliances is that a rehab? Or a flip?
If you have to put in new cabinets in the kitchen is that a rehab?
If you have to gut it down to the drywall and redo everything, including the wiring, that must be a rehab and not a flip, right?
Would you call Octavia a “flip,” Sabrina? Do you believe you can learn anything useful from the pics and the listing info alone about what occurred at the property? Without having seen it?
Do you think the kind of speculation that went on in this thread has any value? Or is it radically misleading without having seen the property or known the scale of work that went on there?
Having seen the before pictures of Octavia- no, I would not call that a flip.
But most people can look at the pictures of the prior listing on Melvina and the pictures of the current listing and see that it’s the same kitchen in both pictures. I don’t think anyone argued that work wasn’t done on the Melvina property. But how much?
That’s why I asked you the question: what constitutes a “flip” and what is a “rehab”? How far do you go before you can call it a rehab? Is it new appliances? Is it putting in a new bathroom sink? Or is it tearing down drywall and reconfiguring the bathroom to a completely different layout?
Any rehabbers on here care to chime in?
When the drywall has been completely redone, rooms reconfigured, recessed lighting added, a half-bath expanded to a full bath, other baths made over, floors completely redone, a wet bar added, etc. etc. etc. it’s beyond a flip.
In general I don’t know whether something is a flip or a rehab until I’ve seen it and assessed the overall scale of the work. I have this old-fashioned notion that you have to see a property in person to understand it.
Sabrina,
Compare the room sizes in the current listing, especially the second floor bedroom and the family room, to those in the prior listing and you’ve gone a long way toward answering the question of whether this is a flip or a rehab.
I’ve seen quite a bit of this builder’s work, and seen it sell quickly.
Joe: do you know if his labor force is legal or illegal? tks
“I’ve seen quite a bit of this builder’s work, and seen it sell quickly.”
Dan,
I know this builder is consistently delivering what seems to me a very good product that buyers like and buy quickly. Real buyers who don’t spend their days in idle chatter compare this builder’s product to what else is available in the markets he’s in and move on it.
I came here only because a client’s product was being wildly misrepresented. I’m gone again.
I wonder if this builder’s product benefits from lower labor costs, due to illegal workers, that allows him to price below competition that doesn’t break the law. That’s what I was asking. I don’t know and was wondering if you did.
PS referring to 3745 N Octavia
i still say not much more than $285.
here is a much bigger home,5 bedrooms… 3 blocks away.i believe this guy started at $400,went down to $359 and it’s on a lot and a half with 2 garages.and this one was a gut rehab.and they are still overpriced.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5638-N-Marmora-Ave-60646/home/13509232
hope my link works.
the 3745 octavia house looks pretty nice,and Izabela gave a very nice tour of the place.
Remember, Joe posts here because he is paid to do so.
Joey Z,
you already know my view and feelings of your client S&B. i previously pointed you to the reasons why. I didnt mean to “misrepresent” your client, i was just wondering if they were the “flippers”. (never stated they where)
Sabrina makes a great point, when is it a flip or when is it a rehab?
maybe its a “rehab” when work is done to make it inhabitable or make it up to code?
and its a “flip” when its just cosmetically updating to make it modern?
How bout this: a flip is cosmetic, new paint, sand the floors, buy a new dishwasher etc.
And a Reno is something you need permits for.
Sabrina,
I disclosed at the outset above that S&B is a client, and repeated it later.
Posting here on their behalf is not within the scope of my limited engagement with them. Not that facts matter much here.
jp3chicago – “does anyone else think that the kitchens and baths seem a bit out of place for this older style home?”
I couldn’t agree with you more, but given the overall lack of aesthetic in the world of rehabs, I think you and I must be in the minority. People seem to love incongruent fixtures, molding, and appliances these days. People don’t seem to care if there is no sense of proportion and the sink is five times bigger than what the bathroom calls for. The American dream seems to be bigger = better. I suppose that’s why the market is where it is.
“And a Reno is something you need permits for.”
Should have. Not “need”.
FACTS HERE MEAN EVERYTHING!
“Posting here on their behalf is not within the scope of my limited engagement with them. Not that facts matter much here.”
phew. After watching the shilling video about 3745 octavia, I had doubts about your objectivity.
I think flippnig and rehabbing get used interchangably becuase they generally go together but they are not necessary the same thing.
Flipping a home is simply buying it for a price and then selling it quickly for a higher price. It’s theoretically possible to do that without doing any work at all. Think height of the boom where someone bought new construction before the ground was even broken and then turned around and sold it.
Obviously the more work you put in, the better your odds of selling for a better price. Rehabbing is when you take a home and update it, usually more extensively then simply repainting and replacing appliances.
Fact is Joe is paid money to troll
“Should have. Not “need”.”
I stand corrected…..
This is their repair and replace permit-so Joe must be mistaken about enlarging the half bath.
J/K
REPLACE DRYWALL, ELECTRIC FIXTURES, CABINETS,REPLACE 6 PLUMBING FIXTURES AND NEW GUTTERS/DOWNSPOUTS. ALL WORK SAME AS EXISTING-SUBJECT TO FIELD INSPECTION
“I stand corrected…..”
heh. I do it to you every time Dahlia. As you well know, almost every contractor in the city *will* work w/o permits, and many won’t work with real permits. And *tons* of these rehabs were done w/o permits–some done well, some done poorly.
I’m actually impressed that they have a permit at all.
My problem is when people do a serious gut rehab without any permits.
People don’t understand that your huge new master bath needs structural reinforcement, etc. and you can’t see what’s under the floor or behind the walls.
“I’m actually impressed that they have a permit at all.”
Agreed. Unless the owner is a registered contractor, then it’s easier to get the permit than to deal with the possibility of getting caught.
“Fact is Joe is paid money to troll”
What a lucky bastard
A flip usually just consists of investors who come in and MAYBE do minor cosmetic changes such as paint and new appliances and that is (in 90% of the time) the extent of it. Their sole reason for being in the business is to make money by having ample money to invest in (newer construction) units or buildings, gauge the market, then re-list the unit (with a different agent/company) at a (mostly) drastically higher price.
A rehabber or renovator will go in, inspect the unit from top to bottom, inside out and determine whether it would be advantageous for them to invest the money to renovate the unit with the intention of reselling at a price that includes the cost of materials and labor and an acceptable profit for his time and investment.
When we first tour a unit for renovation, we start with the exterior. Roof, siding, foundation, sidewalks and porches/entries, windows and in some cases (in Fl in particular) the condition of lawn and landscaping.
Next we inspect the interior starting with calculating the total “under the roof” square footage followed by the actual “usable floor space”. This accurate method of measuring and drawing up a crude floorplan is done to assess if we need to move, remove or replace walls in order to get the most usable space for the price.
After that is done, I have a good idea of whether the place would be a cost effective renovation. After comparing it to the surrounding units and their sales histories, we then decide to proceed with the project.
We will then return and do a very thorough inspection that includes EVERY aspect of the unit. Flooring, electrical, plumbing, walls, ceilings, basements and their mechanicals, attics, stairways, etc. When I say EVERY aspect, that is exactly what I mean.
After making detailed notes of what we would need to do, figuring the cost to do so and the labor that would be required we determine if it is a good project to undertake.
If it is, I will calculate the asking price, the materials & labor cost and then the asking price after all work is completed. We would then determine how it would fit into our schedule and the manhours needed to complete the work.
If all this comes out to us being able to secure the materials needed for the work and our schedule permits it and it is a cost effective project to take on, I then will make a cash offer to the agent or owner. 9 times out of 10 if we have taken the process to this point, the offer will be accepted and we proceed with making a detailed to do list and seperating the tasks and a time frame with which to work.
Next is an accurate and a highly detailed floorplan is drawn up and materials are pre-ordered. Followed by applying and receiving permits for what we are going to be doing. Once the permits are received, I will order and pay for the materials needed to complete the job and we move forward with scheduling the labor.
We demo the unit, most often down to the studs and begin our work.
Depending on the amount of work that needs to be performed and the timeliness of the agency to grant our permits, we will usually spend from 2 to 6 weeks on the unit.
After all work is done, we have a licensed inspector come through to perform his inspection. Of course since I and the majority of my crew are qualified (but not licensed, other than NY State) to perform inspections, this step is one that does not require that much time or effort as all of our work is grade A and nothing is left undone or poorly done.
We will then receive the inspection report with no items that need to be attended to and at that time the listing agent (in NY and Fl I use my own nephews and nieces to act as my agents) then does his/her evaluation and we get it listed on the MLS and it is put on market for sale, or in some cases, on the rental market.
So there you have the definitions of half assed flippers and my company & crew who, I am proud to say, are polar opposites of each other.
westloopelo, appreciate the details, very insightful learning (not that I’m in the business). Do you have a regular crew in NY/FL and Chicago9?) you use or do you shift your crew (or at least a General Contractor/Project manager) around the country?
I use the same crew that I have had for years and we travel as a group, but live in seperate homes. My main couple have been with me since day one and the other four (2 more are on call for more advanced work…metal work, decorative finishes, period detailing) have joined over the years, all through the original two. While we do travel together to sites, they all own their own places that we, as a team, have renovated. A few have mulitple units (other than the ones they occupy) and rent for extra $$$.
The main couple are my right, and left hands in this business and are as, if not more, knowledgable than I am in this process.
As far as General Contractor, I or one of the original two fill that role. Project Manager is interchangable as we have the same skillsets, a few more detail oriented, but all are very capable of doing the same high quality work and are assigned the responsibilities of a PM.
Gotta say, I see and live with these great people more than I do my own family…in most respects, they are closer and mean more to me than blood relatives and we get along fantastically.
I am VERY fortunate in that respect as I never have to worry about any aspect of any of the hundreds of places we have constructed as a team. The only thing that is concerning me now is, because of the economic situation and my decision to down scale, (for the present) the original two are now strongly considering establishing their own company and that is why they are returning to Chicago in the next month to undertake a few projects on their own with my financing. I am thinking once they start doing a few projects I will come out of my ‘semi-retirement’ and rejoin them doing what we have been doing for the past 25 years.
Overall it is a very challenging and enjoyable occupation/way of life…other than the economic situation which has caused sales of finished projects to slow down, in Chicago and Fl this is especially true. Those projects that have not sold have become rentals, something I am not that excited about but they are still pulling in a good amount of income for us.
I’ve posted the video I shot this morning at 5755 N Melvina on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTN0wTimWc8
Anyone who watches the video will quickly see that the chatter here has been ill-informed and wildly off the mark in virtually every respect.
Does anyone still think this home will sell much below list or linger on the market?
“Does anyone still think this home will sell much below list or linger on the market?”
i dont think the chatter was about pricing or days on market for this nice home?
The sign says:
****DON’T FEED THE TROLL****
“Remember, Joe posts here because he is paid to do so.”
Ok and those web adds put nothing in Sabrina’s pocket?
the house is nice but the upstairs is useless.
…As useless as the Zekas’ comments are?
holy cow, the listing says it’s Under Contract.
let’s see what it closes for…
he probably bought it himself,just to show everybody here how great he is.
clio probably bought it..wait it didn’t have an eight car garage.
I knew this would go fast. You guys tend to underestimate the importance that most people place on having a place that is “already done”. It doesn’t matter (and shouldn’t) how much profit the seller is making, how much the seller paid for the house, how much is their mortgage, etc. What matters is that it is well priced when compared to the surrounding properties.
armchair quarterbacks
closed for 320k a month ago.
20% down.
Is this the floor for pricing on SFH on the northwest side? $320k for a move in condition SFH? $1,800 a month PITI?
“Is this the floor for pricing on SFH on the northwest side? $320k for a move in condition SFH?”
Probably not a floor, but seems pretty reasonable, no?