Trying to Sell a 2-Bedroom SFH in Bucktown for the Last Year: 1719 W. Wabansia
This 2-bedroom single family home at 1719 W. Wabansia in Bucktown has been on and off the market for nearly a year.
Originally listed at $799,000 in October 2010, it has been reduced $100,000 in that time.
Built in 1987 on an oversized lot of 37×125, it has side and rear gardens and a 2-car garage.
Both bedrooms are on the second level but the listing says that the lower level has been set up as a third bedroom with a full bath.
The listing also says the kitchen has new stainless steel appliances (but the pictures show the old white appliances) and there are no granite counter tops.
The house has central air and skylights.
Is the lack of a “real” 3rd bedroom at this price point what is hurting the sale of this house?
Gail Missner at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here.
1719 W. Wabansia: 2 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2800 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in June 1991 for $270,000
- Originally listed in October 2010 for $799,000
- Reduced in January 2011 to $699,000
- Currently still listed at $699,000
- Taxes of $11228
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 14×18 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 11×18 (second floor)
- Family room: 21×16 (lower level)
“Is the lack of a “real” 3rd bedroom at this price point what is hurting the sale of this house?”
No this price at this price point is what’s hurting the sale of this house. The aluminum siding doesn’t help convey images of a three quarter million dollar residence as well. It looks like a crackhead designed the front facade.
What are the two lots worth as a teardown? This home is a “cheap abomination” and even given the extra lot not worth more that 450K
This listing makes me just cry.
Why on Earth would anybody build a house like this? Why would anybody “revive” a “style” that never really was a real architectural style to begin with but just sort of happened as people built the cheapest house they could with materials that were easy to get.
You don’t have to spend this kind of money to live like the working class of Chicago 1880-1950. Why would anybody pay anything like $750K to live in an imitation 19th-century worker-housing A frame?
We looked at this home. It needs a lot of work. The basement that is set up as a 3rd bedroom is very unfinished and looks to be where a teenager gets away from the family. Really the only nice thing about this place is the lot size. Long-time owner looking to make a buck after doing very little to the place. In fact, the seller hadn’t even done anything (that we could tell) to get the place ready to show. Once you get past the ugly facade, get ready for a lot of problems with the interior.
The front facade looks like one of those situations where someone tore down a house except for the front wall so that it technically isn’t a new house permit wise and then revamped the facade afterwards.
You know how Needs some TLC is code for Needs to be gut rehabbed? I’d love it if listing agents had code language “the idiot owner set the price, not me”.
Looks like a simple vinyl-sided box with Home Depot quality finishes, signs of cheap initial construction and likely future home renovation/repair cost. It’s modelled after the cheapest 19th century worker cottage motif. Aside from the generous lot, nothing suggests “buy me; I’m a reasonably-safe residential home purchase”.
Toured a new vinyl-sided house at Chicago Parade of Homes many years ago, noting that quick saws-all cut in siding would gave easy access to home interior. Actually, a swift kick with a metal-toe boot would suffice.
“What are the two lots worth as a teardown?”
A teardown just sold around here for $390k. That would put this place at $585k as a teardown.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1914-N-Honore-St-60622/home/13354641
“noting that quick saws-all cut in siding would gave easy access to home interior. Actually, a swift kick with a metal-toe boot would suffice.”
DO burglars actually do that?
wow this piece of junk for 700K. I would have thought it was worth 450K max.
“DO burglars actually do that?”
Not in my prop mgmt years – they just used their hands and feet. Only saw it on garages, though.
Built in 1987? That’s the part that makes no sense to me. It’s not that awful, but you can do a lot better for that price.
“A teardown just sold around here for $390k. That would put this place at $585k as a teardown.”
Other (full size lots) around there sold for more like the low $300K range. I haven’t scrutinized them closely but seem pretty comparable, so there is some uncertainty or something about land prices.
Yikes for the exterior and double yikes for the price! The large lot size is about all it has going for it at this price point.
From the looks of it I’m thinking it was built in 1897, not 1987. Maybe a typo?
Either way, it’s a 2 bedroom dump on a nice lot.
Wow, huge taxes for a 2 BR shack.
Dream on @ $699k.
With deals like this no wonder realtors can’t put food on their tables..
I don’t know HD, but this one is way off. Not all properties are over priced to this extent. Either the agent, the seller, or the CCer are really off here.
QOD: Either the agent, the seller, or the CCer are really off here.
these listings shouldn’t be within 250k of each other…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1843-N-Hoyne-Ave-60647/home/13356194
Agree with what Laura said.
And yes – 1987 seems realistic for the build date, to the person who thought that was a typo. The “throwback” style was in vogue at the time.
Anyone paying $700K for this place needs to have their head examined.
“From the looks of it I’m thinking it was built in 1897, not 1987. Maybe a typo?”
Nope. Assessor agrees on late-1980s construction.
Pause for a moment and contemplate what the hood was like in 1987. This is a block from the heart of the North Ave stroll. You just didn’t build a really deluxe house on a lot worth *maybe* $40,000. Hell, if the original, from the builder, price had been $225k, they almost overbuilt for the then-current hood.
There are a bunch of these smallish houses on Wabansia, two beds up, third bed in basement. We looked at these a long long time ago, when they were selling in the low $700K range. Haven’t followed them closely but I think (not positive) they sell in more like the mid $600K range. Which would actually put the list of of this place as not crazy, if you trade off the side lot against the fact that nothing has been updated, as long as there aren’t major structural problems.
“these listings shouldn’t be within 250k of each other…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1843-N-Hoyne-Ave-60647/home/13356194”
We looked at that one too. Problem is that the entire living space is in a sunken first floor. Then again, someone liked it because it is under contract.
re: lot size — $390 is way off — 25×125 lot on the market (with a dumpy house on it) for $199. Under contract. http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/2217-N-Leavitt-St-60647/home/13357530
I remember when these were built (the same builder put up groups of these is several Wicker Park & Bucktown locations). At the time they were “cute” & an affordable new home w/ all the nice features buyers were looking for in the late 1980’s to early 90’s. I don’t think the construction was shoddy, but you get what you pay for, and these were being sold in the 200’s at that time, quite a reasonable price point.
They were able to keep the price low by: 1) buying land inexpensively–the lots at that time were probably in the 50-80K range (probably a bit more for 37′ lot); 2) keeping the house smaller (I seem to recall more like 2400 sq. ft for most, but definitely only 2 BR’s upstairs, with expansion potential in the unfinished basement); 3) building “frame” and definitely using very standard materials/fixtures throughout
All that said, if it hasn’t been maintained well, I agree that it might be a nice purchase in the high 500’s, giving someone the opportunity to do a bit of updating & repair & have a single family with larger lot in a good area for the price of many townhomes/condos. I don’t think it makes sense as teardown.
“these listings shouldn’t be within 250k of each other…”
This place has 95% more land.
coogan,
1843 n hoyne is ridiculous! That’s the kind to home that could motivate me to get off the couch and pull the trigger!
““noting that quick saws-all cut in siding would gave easy access to home interior. Actually, a swift kick with a metal-toe boot would suffice.”
DO burglars actually do that?”
Yes. A few years back someone used a utility knife to open a new door to a home in the subdivision my sister lived in (Oswego/Montgomery area). It was much quieter than a saws-all but a bit more work.
My sister sold a few months later.
I am finding it really hard to believe that a burglar would find it effective to enter a house by cutting through the siding. There is still framing, insulation, vapor barriers, conduit, etc. in there. And now you’re saying that someone did it with a utility knife? I just don’t believe that. Using a reciprocating saw is possible but loud, but using a utility knife doesn’t even make sense.
Some burglars are just jerks for the sake of being jerks. In the car we had when I was a kid, the burglar could have just flipped the switch to open the trunk, but instead, he cut through the back seat to get to the trunk. It was no fun riding home in that car (we were on vacation when it happened).
“1843 n hoyne is ridiculous! That’s the kind to home that could motivate me to get off the couch and pull the trigger!”
I’d suggest that you first get motivated enough to schedule a showing before you “pull the trigger” (unless attending an open house is your version of pulling the trigger).
As I said, we went through it and it was not a house that would work for us — despite great photographs on the listing (kudos to the realtor). The house is constructed of some odd not-stucco material and there appear to be some settling issues. There is no (gator) deck on the garage and the outdoor spaces are very small and choppy. The only living area in the home is sunken and it’s just the rounded wall living room and a very large kitchen that probably would not fit a dining room table. Overall a nice enough place, just didn’t measure up to what I thought after seeing the listing.
“Some burglars are just jerks for the sake of being jerks.”
Sure, but I’m not sure that you understand how much is involved in cutting through the side of a house with a utility knife. I still call bullshit.
I would scheduled a showing but it looks to be under contract. After too many renovations neither the wife of I would be interested in something that needs work. I hear you though on the small yard. That would definitely be an issue for us. Coming from a condo, outdoor space would be a real treat and probably something we would need to stay longer term.
Really we’re still debating the whole city v. suburbs thing. I went to a few open houses in oak park two weeks ago, but had a hard time getting into it.
Are there any suburbs that are close to and are walkable like the city?
“I still call bullshit.”
I’ve seen it done several times on garages. But, yeah, a window or door is much easier for a house.
“Are there any suburbs that are close to and are walkable like the city?”
The trifecta of Oak Park, River Forest and Evanston. That’s about it. Park Ridge is just outside the city but not really walkable. Riverside is close to the city but the area in general is bland. The rest of the suburbs that border the city (ie lincolnwood, niles, the suburbs off mannheim road, and southwest to the south) are a combination of not walkable, working class, not really all that close, or too suburban, although I’m sure Sabrina will try to sell you on the benefits of Berwyn! Just kidding Sabrina…
Sounds like the trifecta has good schools as well. While we don’t have kids yet, my head is already spinning thinking about schools. Anyone know of a good starting place to decipher the whole private v. public v. move to the suburbs debate?
“Anyone know of a good starting place to decipher the whole private v. public v. move to the suburbs debate?”
That’s a very tangential topic to be discussed on a different day…
Plenty of good public schools in the City. Usually costs more to live in the attendance boundaries for obvious reasons.
“Sounds like the trifecta has good schools as well. While we don’t have kids yet, my head is already spinning thinking about schools. Anyone know of a good starting place to decipher the whole private v. public v. move to the suburbs debate?”
I was like you, acc, but if you don’t have kids yet you really shouldn’t worry too much about this. You are going to pay a lot in taxes to live in the “trifecta” for a public service you won’t be using for 5+ years. Enjoy your time in the city and revisit this when you have a kid that is maybe 3 years old.
You are going to pay a lot in taxes to live in the “trifecta” for a public service you won’t be using for 5+ years. Enjoy your time in the city and revisit this when you have a kid that is maybe 3 years old.
Very good advice. You could also buy a 2-3BD place in the Bell or Blaine school areas (others as well, too many to list) and not even worry about moving with a 3 year old until you feel you need more space.
“a 2-3BD place in the Bell … school area”
Not too many options with 2+ baths not on Western or Irving Park. And I mean “at all”, not just “for sale right now”.
It is definitely a rub. Pay high taxes now, but buy low with rock bottom mortgage or save the taxes and try the market in 3-5 years.
I really want a bigger place now, but I suppose for the annual cost of a nice 4 br in the trifecta, I could rent one helluva condo downtown.
There’s always http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3619-N-Campbell-Ave-60618/home/13453136. I saw some interior shots on an earlier listing and it didn’t seem terrible.
A good place to start looking at school options is cpsobsessed.com. While people will say you don’t need to worry about it until you have a 3 year old, you will see on this site how many people find themselves stuck in the boundary of a truly awful school and without any viable alternative. Given that you need to apply for all the K options almost a year before school starts, waiting until then isn’t such a smart idea.
I find it hard to believe you can’t find a 2-3Bd in these areas.
Jennifer, thanks for the cpsobcessed suggestion. Clearly this is some heavy sh*t! Already my head is spinning. I can already feel the pressure for my unborn child to score high on placement tests…which he better do!
Thanks Jennifer, i was wondering what to stress about once the wedding planning is over 😀
“I find it hard to believe you can’t find a 2-3Bd in these areas.”
ufo is adding the 2+ bath condition (not sure if it’s strictly greater or greater than or equal). Maybe some of the places on lincoln across from TJs? We considered them for one v brief moment, long long ago, and don’t think we would have if they didn’t have at least 2 baths.
Is that a real house or a bad movie set? Sheesh.
“ufo is adding the 2+ bath condition (not sure if it’s strictly greater or greater than or equal). Maybe some of the places on lincoln across from TJs? We considered them for one v brief moment, long long ago, and don’t think we would have if they didn’t have at least 2 baths.”
2 baths should be fine for most people
“ufo”
Just trying to Groove back?
“the 2+ bath condition (not sure if it’s strictly greater or greater than or equal).”
Equal or greater.
“Maybe some of the places on lincoln across from TJs?”
Yep, that’s about it. Those, IPR or Western. And a handful on the more desirable side streets. Decent amount of 2/1s, but why not just rent?
“While people will say you don’t need to worry about it until you have a 3 year old, you will see on this site how many people find themselves stuck in the boundary of a truly awful school and without any viable alternative.”
I didn’t suggest buying and then thinking about it in several years. If acc insists on buying now, then he should buy with schools in mind. But I don’t think he needs to rush to buy now, as he’s unlikely to be “priced out forever” if he waits a few years to figure out his options.
My wife works in CPS and she’s not convinced she wants to send our kid through the system (at least at the high school level). Get some more insight on the schools inside the city and outside the city before making a decision, if one must buy now.
“It is definitely a rub. Pay high taxes now, but buy low with rock bottom mortgage or save the taxes and try the market in 3-5 years.”
This is phrased as if it’s a definite tradeoff. It could be that by buying in 3-5 years you’ll have more insight on where you want to live and the schools for your child(ren), you’ll save thousands of dollars each year in taxes, and prices and/or rates could be even lower.
Acc it is a lot of work, but if you really want to stay in the city it can be done. I do however agree with Chris M that the high school situation is still a concern though.
“I do however agree with Chris M that the high school situation is still a concern though.”
Anyone who denies that the HS situation is at least a concern deserves each and every insult clio and G hurl at each other.
But that’d be something for future acc to worry about.
Our plan is home schooling with a private tutor. If you want to track progress you can always have the child enrolled in the Chicago Virtual Charter School, but I think it requires a day in a CPS classroom once a week.
If I had a kid, I would definitely consider the Virtual Charter School. They even give you free internet access!
What about putting your kid in cps until high school, then jumping ship to top tier private?
$399,000 including two parking spaces would be perfect for a young couple.
“What about putting your kid in cps until high school, then jumping ship to top tier private?”
That’s great in theory, but it’s my understanding that the best shot at admission is at the pre-K level. I would gladly pay $5k a year for 10 years (pre-K through 8th) to Parker or Latin to lock in a high school spot.
Realtor might want to take note of this:
http://realestate.aol.com/blog/2009/11/02/l-a-couple-tortures-loan-mod-agents/
“I would gladly pay $5k a year for 10 years (pre-K through 8th) to Parker or Latin to lock in a high school spot.”
Only true if you need to send your kids to Parker or Latin. Plenty of other good private HSs.
More info, re: home schooling.
I think what may have put it over the top for my wife is that she has a coworker with two kids in Hinsdale Central HS. According to her, a surprising number of the kids at the top of the class were all home schooled until HS.
So consider this option: Live where ever you want now and home school. And then rent for 4 years in the Hinsdale Central or New Trier districts.
“Realtor might want to take note of this:”
Longer, more recent (but not recent) story:
http://www.laweekly.com/2010-05-06/news/torture-lies-and-louis-xiii-cognac/
“So consider this option: Live where ever you want now and home school.”
Who’s going to home school them? The wife? She’s going to teach them a foreign language (fluently) and sports? Or will you go to a local school for those things you can’t get at home (science experiments etc.)
Home schooling is so hard. It’s a full time job. It’s being a teacher (only to your own kids.)
By the way- there are PLENTY of 2 and 3 bedrooms condos you could buy right now in Blaine. Bell is a little harder because it’s housing stock is mainly single family homes.
“What about putting your kid in cps until high school, then jumping ship to top tier private?”
acc- we’ve covered this several times before. The real experts on Chicago schools are at cpsobsessed and other sites like that. BUT- from what people have said here before- you can’t just waltz into one of the good private schools at age 14. Your child has to have been attending them since kindergarten. They let in very few kids at the high school level. Didn’t someone say Latin only lets in like 4 students or 8 students or some miniscule number like that?
They want your money for the whole ride- not just the last 4 years.
It’s wise you’re already worried about the schools (even though you don’t have kids yet). Because you might be living in your property for 10 years or more. It’s smart to think ahead. Other things to consider:
1. Can you easily get the baby/toddler to and from the property? Some people don’t think twice about buying on the third or forth floor of a walk-up only to have a baby and discover that it’s pretty difficult to carry a child in a car seat up and down those stairs nearly every day.
2. Do you have enough space for all things baby? (the toys etc.)
3. What about daycare? A lot of people write me that they have to sell properties because they had a child and the grandparents, who are the primary day time caregivers, live too far away etc.
4. Don’t assume you’ll just be able to get your child into any school you want. Someone told me over the weekend that there was a wait list for a montessori school on the south side for preschool. Their child was only a year old and already on it.
“My wife works in CPS and she’s not convinced she wants to send our kid through the system (at least at the high school level). Get some more insight on the schools inside the city and outside the city before making a decision, if one must buy now.”
Good advice Chris M.
I don’t get the home schooling thing. If you want to tutor the kids or help them with learning that material why not do that in conjunction with sending them to school? Unless the schools are unsafe, I would never opt for HSing. It deprives the kids from meeting kids from various backgrounds and keeps them from learning to fins their place in the society. I know 2 families who home school and their kids are weirdos IMHO and were very unsuccessful at attending good universities and these parents are highly educated.
“Didn’t someone say Latin only lets in like 4 students or 8 students or some miniscule number like that?”
That may be the number of wholly unaffiliated kids who get in, but its absolutely false that the 9th grade class is only the 8th grade class plus 8. Demonstrably wrong.
anonny on September 28th, 2011 at 2:58 pm
““What about putting your kid in cps until high school, then jumping ship to top tier private?”
That’s great in theory, but it’s my understanding that the best shot at admission is at the pre-K level. I would gladly pay $5k a year for 10 years (pre-K through 8th) to Parker or Latin to lock in a high school spot.”
I believe you dropped a zero there – you’re looking at $50k a year for 10 years if you have 2 kids in any of the top tier private schools. Your best bet is actually getting yourself a tier 1/2 address then applying for the open enrollment schools and doing selective testing – the lower tiers get higher priority on the lottery lists, and have a lower score requirement for classical/gifted. Or pay the $$ to live in the better neighborhood school boundaries.
You forgot to add that you better hope the rules of the game don’t change on you, Jennifer. The CPS is trying to circumvent the Supreme Court’s decision barring race/ethnicity as a consideration for admission and this is just their first and blunt (due to it being rushed) attempt at arriving at the same result with the legal constraints they now have.
I always wondered who the architect of this “census tract” methodology on public school admissions was and I think it has something to do with the “holiday” today (although the source was dan). I hope a parent sues and beats CPS on the basis of this “census tract” methodology. Who can send you a letter with your census tract number? On what other forms is it ever indicated?
I think instead school admissions criteria should include the ratio of minivans on a given block divided by the number of sportscars. It is a similar arbitrary methodology just like the “census tract” one, which are based on arbitrary boundaries.
I’ve actually met and drank with a CPS superintendent (during the summer). If you meet and become friends with one you can probably get your kids into a local school. (Not that I am friends with this person).
“That may be the number of wholly unaffiliated kids who get in, but its absolutely false that the 9th grade class is only the 8th grade class plus 8. Demonstrably wrong.”
Like I said anon (tfo)- I’m obviously no school expert. But people were saying on here awhile back that if you don’t start at the private schools in Kindergarten (or pre-K)- then the odds of getting in just for high school are much, much slimmer.
By the way- everyone assumes that their child, once accepted at a private school, will stay in that school for their entire educational process. I’ve been surprised to find out – from friends with kids in Catholic schools in the suburbs- that by the 2nd and 3rd grade, the schools are asking the “problem” children to leave (either because they have some sort of learning disability, social disability etc.)
It’s amazing how often this happens. The private school can expel your child at any time. Then what do you do? For my friends in the suburbs, they simply enroll their child in the local elementary school. But in many neighborhoods in Chicago- that would not be an option. Then what?
“What about putting your kid in cps until high school, then jumping ship to top tier private?”
Isn’t that disruptive to the child? Whatever happened to kids having friends and then attend HS with those same friends?
“I would never opt for HSing. It deprives the kids from meeting kids from various backgrounds and keeps them from learning to fins their place in the society. I know 2 families who home school and their kids are weirdos IMHO and were very unsuccessful at attending good universities and these parents are highly educated.”
Pffffftttt! yeah, meeting kids into drugs, hip-hop, gangs, truancy, teen pregnancies is more like it. 6% of CPS “students” graduate college, the number for homeschoolers is much higher. Wasn’t there a Trib article about an Evanston girl, homeschooled, who aced everything and got into Harvard?
subject property: Taxes: $11,228 (2009)
OUCH!
I think this is a better deal for a small house of pre-bubble vintage (1996). smaller lot, but 3 levels, no alley, but close to CTA, cheaper too: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/944-N-Racine-Ave-60642/home/14109451
“Wasn’t there a Trib article about an Evanston girl, homeschooled, who aced everything and got into Harvard?”
Wasn’t there a Trib article about a homeschooled kid who went on a killing spreee and got life without parole?
Anecdote =| data.
Wow – am I behind the times here! When I hear the words “private high school” I automatically think of the Catholic (and other religion-based) schools, not the Parker/Latin/Lab “triumverate.”
And we seem to be really pessimistic about the chances of our public high schools improving over the next decade or so. Sad.
As for keeping your kids at home so they don’t get exposed to “bad examples” at school – if you provide a stable home and social life to counter-act such “influences” your kid should turn out ok at the end. Worked in my family. You can’t cocoon your offspring forever; there’s going to be good and bad wherever they go, and the sooner they learned to cope with the “reality” around them the better.
“I believe you dropped a zero there – you’re looking at $50k a year for 10 years if you have 2 kids in any of the top tier private schools. Your best bet is actually getting yourself a tier 1/2 address then applying for the open enrollment schools and doing selective testing – the lower tiers get higher priority on the lottery lists, and have a lower score requirement for classical/gifted. Or pay the $$ to live in the better neighborhood school boundaries.”
Jennifer, we live in Lincoln elem attendance area. I know what Parker and Latin cost. When I said I’d gladly pay $5k a year to Parker or Latin for 10 years in order to secure a high school spot, I meant that I WISH we could pay $50k over the course of ten years in order to be guaranteed a spot in high school (at which point we’d start paying the $30k+ (today’s cost)/yr rate). Unfortunately, that’s not an option.
Those schools imply that they like to have the same group of kids from pre-K through 12, providing stability, continuity, and allowing a lasting community to form (with the understanding that one would want similarly prepared fellow students come high school). I can see the value in that, I suppose. But I imagine it also has a bit to do with the fact that they want to collect a few hundred grand per kid before high school even rolls around.
“Anecdote =| data.”
Why save the comment until the anecdotal rebuttal? Why a pass for moo moo? She does that crap all the time.
Because unlike you G, she is not obsessed with me and is actually making a point about the discussion. I clearly stated that my observation was on a small sample (2 families) so that people can weigh it however they like. I never claimed to have studied HSing extensively. Actually you’d be surprised to learn that HSing is prohibited in many parts of the world and parents are obliged to send their kids to school. I mean they have all the chances to brain wash them at home any ways so at least this way society gets a chance to do some brain washing too : )
“Why save the comment until the anecdotal rebuttal? Why a pass for moo moo? ”
She was plainly expressing a personal opinion of two kids she knows. Calling them weirdos was entirely sufficient to discredit as data.
The rebuttal cited a “fact”, vaguely recollected. You and i both know that the sort of kid who gets into Harvard after homeschooling most likely would have done so going to public HS, too.
““What about putting your kid in cps until high school, then jumping ship to top tier private?”
Isn’t that disruptive to the child? Whatever happened to kids having friends and then attend HS with those same friends?”
The Groove and others who attended CPS disputed this “disruptive” argument in the past because there are few neighborhood schools anyway. A lot of the CPS kids get scattered all over the city for high school anyway (because some get into Whitney Young or other magnets etc.)
Going to grade school, junior high and high school with the same group of kids is apparently only a suburban thing.
“Going to grade school, junior high and high school with the same group of kids is apparently only a suburban thing.”
The CPS elems I have the most familiarity with have the 8th graders going on to most or all of Young, Northside, Payton, Jones, Lane, Taft (IB), LPHS (IB or double honors), Von Steuben and LVHS. A non-negible number leave after 6th for the ACs (and the Lane AC will increase that group). Plus the usual private suspects.
So, yeah, in the “better” CPS elems, the kids scatter after 8th. For now, at least, Lincoln and Alcott are going to provide the best chance of continuity, as LPHS is a reasonable fallback, and has been making efforts to keep more of the neighborhood kids.
“She was plainly expressing a personal opinion of two kids she knows. Calling them weirdos was entirely sufficient to discredit as data.”
I don’t see it that way.
“It deprives the kids from meeting kids from various backgrounds and keeps them from learning to fins their place in the society. I know 2 families who home school and their kids are weirdos IMHO and were very unsuccessful at attending good universities and these parents are highly educated.”
Moo moo’s statement cited a “fact,” specifically recollected. You and i both know that the sort of kid who is a weirdo after homeschooling most likely would have been a weirdo going to public HS, too.
“Anecdote =| data”
Well, G, I’m just showing my anti-home-schooling bias in who I respond too. And I don’t have any problem with that, since I think I once read somewhere that some homeschooled kid did something awful.
Plus, the disproportionate success of the home-schooled at the national spelling bee makes me feel inferior, so I have an explanation for lashing out.
If your kid is razor sharp and tests well you can get to St. Ignatius. It’s not cheap, but it’s not as much as Latin & FP (or didn’t use to be, anyway).
“BUT- from what people have said here before- you can’t just waltz into one of the good private schools at age 14. ”
Exactly – and what really kills me about this obsession with the “neighborhood” school is not seeing the bigger picture – this is CHICAGO, not the sticks, in a given 5 mile radius there are dozens and dozens of schools.
We’re taking our kid to Hamilton every day (she loves it), it’s theoretically less convenient as it’s 2 miles almost dead east. But, we both work downtown and have to get east anyway. So we drop off the kid and either park and take the train or drive or I bike.
Net impact to my commute has been exactly ZERO. In fact, driving I’d say it’s actually faster thanks to the work on the Congress (which god willing they will finish before my kid enters high school).
Also, while it can be stressful, the reality is a lot of the good and up-and-coming schools end up having spaces they weren’t expecting. Several of our friends got their kids into Hamilton instead of Jahn or Audubon as late as June. We were something ridiculous like 88th on the list for Goethe, but friends tell us that they had openings as well. I’m sure really well-known schools are more likely to fill, but you don’t know until you ask.
“The Groove and others who attended CPS disputed this “disruptive” argument in the past because there are few neighborhood schools anyway. A lot of the CPS kids get scattered all over the city for high school anyway (because some get into Whitney Young or other magnets etc.) “
oh, and home schooling is just kind of freaky unless you have some serious skill you are trying to teach – Rachel Barton went to my grade school and her parents pulled her in maybe 1st grade once they saw her aptitude for the violin. But I guarantee most home-schooled students do not end up as virtuosos playing for the CSO.
Sabrina, everyone, thanks for all your responses….my head is REALLY spinning now! At this point nuclear fusion seems easier to understand than how one might get their kid into a good school, in a good neighborhood thats reasonably close to home.
“But I guarantee most home-schooled students do not end up as virtuosos playing for the CSO.”
But you just told us about one, so it’s *clearly* a viable option!!
Oh, but wait, home-schooled kids who play violin with the CSO also inevitably suffer horrible, life-altering, accidents. Crap, I can’t figure out which anecdote carries more weight.
“At this point nuclear fusion seems easier to understand than how one might get their kid into a good school, in a good neighborhood thats reasonably close to home.”
Buy a house in Lincoln, Bell or a few other CPS attendance areas, or in the New Trier or Hinsdale Central districts, if you’re concerned about *certainty* through HS graduation. Wah-Lah.
If you mean “how can I live in a hip ‘hood and guarantee great school options for my hypothetical future kid”, Rahm has the model there (minus the hip ‘hood part, but he’d have the same options living in a warehouse in Pilsen)–be rich and get elected to something important.
Home schooling is not an option for us and as someone who changed schools several times growing up I know how hard that can be for a kid.
The easy answer is the suburbs, unfortunately. But growing up in the city will give your child an unintelligible urban chicago accent, saying ‘da’ instead of ‘the’ and ‘trees’ instead of ‘three’ and Jewels instead of Jewel-Osco; move to the suburbs and they’ll at least grow up with the traditional midwestern accent. However, if you move to the north shore, they all talk like they’re from the hoity toity east coast like the old movies where you can barely understand what they’re saying.
“acc on September 29th, 2011 at 8:39 am
Home schooling is not an option for us and as someone who changed schools several times growing up I know how hard that can be for a kid.”
“We’re taking our kid to Hamilton every day (she loves it)”
skeptic, why aren’t you sticking with your Logan-Sq. school? After all, Hamilton is getting better because it’s in Lake View (the qunitessential anti-Logan Sq.) and the parents that are improving it are likewise of the anti-Logan Sq. mentality. Yet you send your child there? Isn’t that hypocritical?
“Actually you’d be surprised to learn that HSing is prohibited in many parts of the world and parents are obliged to send their kids to school.” “this way society gets a chance to do some brain washing too”
aka: totalitarian
“You can’t cocoon your offspring forever; there’s going to be good and bad wherever they go, and the sooner they learned to cope with the “reality” around them the better.”
Well, no kidding. But at the same time there’s no reason to “expose” your kid to endless mediocrity (or worse) year after year after year. I don’t have to visit Somalia to know that I don’t want to spend time with that “reality”. Do I need to study/live the history of the hip-hop industry in depth, to get exposure to that”reality”, or the jist of it? I don’t have to drink weeks’ worth of milk to know if it’s spoiled. Time is precious.
“Oh, but wait, home-schooled kids who play violin with the CSO also inevitably suffer horrible, life-altering, accidents. Crap, I can’t figure out which anecdote carries more weight.”
You’d best wait to see how her whole life turns out (not sure what to do about afterlife, or not). And make sure you know if she *really* is happy. If she has kids, maybe see how they turn out too.
“study/live the history of the hip-hop industry in depth”
Really? Really?
Bet I know more about the *history* of the hip-hop industry than 99% of CPS kids, and I don’t even *like* hip-hop (in general). Your kids would get more exposure to the *history* talking music with Groove and Russ for an hour than they are likely to get in 13 years in CPS.
There are tons of legit reasons for home-schooling; you shouldn’t resort to (arguably racist) hyperbole and “facts” about home-schooling successes.
My point is that attending CPS gives one an overload to current urban “youth” culture, which is hip-hip culture (clothes, music, slang…”OK bro?”), and there are gangs, drugs, drop-outs, teen pregnancies also a part of the culture. It’s just the facts, it’s not racial or hyperbole. I think parents who homeschool should not be attacked or ridiculed, that’s my opinion.
” If she has kids, maybe see how they turn out too.”
I think it will all turn on whether her kids know more about the history of hip-hop, or classical music. Whether, given a category choice on a quiz show for the big money, whether they would choose “Old Skool Rap” or “Opera”. And then, of course, whether or not they get into Harvard.
“My point is that attending CPS gives one an overload to current urban “youth” culture, which is hip-hip culture”
Really? You sure about that? At *EVERY* CPS school?
That’s not the least bit hyperbolic? You *sure*?
My local school is Avondale. At 97% Hispanic it doesn’t meet my criteria for diversity whatsoever. Worse, friends who have tried it out say that it is overwhelmed with extremely poor people – which is a problem when the LSC decides to (one of many such examples) turn down a proposed computer lab in favor of a SEWING CENTER.
I’m not sending my kid somewhere where she’s being prepared to compete with sweatshop labor in the Honduras as China.
But the real deal-killer for me is that repeated attempts to contact the PRINCIPAL via email got no response. Last I checked their website was 2 years out of date.
Basically, it’s a first-generation assimilation school for kids, some 60% of which come from non-native English speaking homes. These kids need to go to school, and I’m not going to be that guy that goes in there and starts telling the local families how short-sighted they are.
Hamilton btw is about as representative of the City’s population as it gets. There are large numbers of black and hispanic and asian kids, which is what we were looking for – it likely won’t be that way in 5 or 10 years, but my daughter’s class looks like Chicago (and yes, these kids are in many cases bused in, or the parents are driving them from as far away as Rogers Park).
Also, I grew up in Lake View, and the school is half-way between my house & my mom’s, so it’s nice to keep that connection (and to be able to rely on Grandma in a pinch).
Regardless of all this, and I’m not sure how you ever got an impression otherwise from me, I certainly do not believe whatsoever one should limit themselves to the school closest to them. I went to private schools as my local (Agassiz) sucked eggs when I was a kid. Now – ha! – I have friends in Logan Sq taking their kids there.
I’d suggest that Chicagoans overall desperately need to start taking a more holistic approach to the City. But as you spelled Lake View with two words that as much grief as I’m gonna give ya. : )
“skeptic, why aren’t you sticking with your Logan-Sq. school? After all, Hamilton is getting better because it’s in Lake View (the qunitessential anti-Logan Sq.) and the parents that are improving it are likewise of the anti-Logan Sq. mentality. Yet you send your child there? Isn’t that hypocritical?”
People homeschool for very different reasons. If you are in the camp you described below, you most certainly deserve any ridicule you receive, that’s textbook racial profiling.
You can’t avoid brown people unless you want to move to Alaska or Iceland…
“My point is that attending CPS gives one an overload to current urban “youth” culture, which is hip-hip culture (clothes, music, slang…”OK bro?”), and there are gangs, drugs, drop-outs, teen pregnancies also a part of the culture. It’s just the facts, it’s not racial or hyperbole. I think parents who homeschool should not be attacked or ridiculed, that’s my opinion.”
“You can’t avoid brown people unless you want to move to Alaska or Iceland…”
Alaska? Depends on what you count as brown I suppose. Moving to northern new england would get you a pretty white population.
“My point is that attending CPS gives one an overload to current urban “youth” culture, which is hip-hip culture (clothes, music, slang…”OK bro?”), and there are gangs, drugs, drop-outs, teen pregnancies also a part of the culture. It’s just the facts, it’s not racial or hyperbole. I think parents who homeschool should not be attacked or ridiculed, that’s my opinion.”
You are a moron.
“People homeschool for very different reasons.”
Absolutely. Many of them aren’t the “don’t teach homosexuality to our kids” or racist types. But, boy oh boy, do otherwise clearer-thinking libs feel those people give them the right to express bias against the entire home-schooling concept.
Duncan should have probably stopped at: “But at the same time there’s no reason to “expose” your kid to endless mediocrity (or worse) year after year after year.” Good enough for me.
Ha, well played – I meant the non-indigenous Alaskan population.
“Alaska? Depends on what you count as brown I suppose. Moving to northern new england would get you a pretty white population.”
I think I’m with Sabrina in the general sense that homeschooling is a lot more work than people think it is. That said, there are definitely people (like the Bartons) that make the commitment and sacrifice to do it for very unselfish and pragmatic reasons, it is absolutely a full-time job.
“But, boy oh boy, do otherwise clearer-thinking libs feel those people give them the right to express bias against the entire home-schooling concept. “
“I think I’m with Sabrina in the general sense that homeschooling is a lot more work than people think it is.”
It definitely is. But, she also suggested sports and languages would be lacking. Club sports and tutors are easy to find. Gives a break from the hard work, too.
“At 97% Hispanic it doesn’t meet my criteria for diversity whatsoever. ”
Face it skeptic, you are sending your kid to a non-Logan Sq. school, where ironically they will inculcate the anti-Logan Sq. values/attitudes once the school is turned around and becomes like Blaine. Saying you don’t want to send your kid to a 97% Hispanic school makes you the racist.
“Duncan should have probably stopped at: “But at the same time there’s no reason to “expose” your kid to endless mediocrity (or worse) year after year after year.” Good enough for me.”
Right. Then people could’ve filled in their own blanks, which is easy to do with CPS.
“a non-Logan Sq. school, where ironically they will inculcate the anti-Logan Sq. values/attitudes once the school is turned around”
I suggest a tutor when irony gets taught.
Is it strange that I picture anon as Ethan Hawke?
Yes, since I’m not even convinced she’s a he.
“Yes, since I’m not even convinced she’s a he.”
Coincidentally*, I’ve heard similar things about Ethan Hawke.
*note: definitely *not* ironically, unless, perhaps, if your name is Alanis.
lol. Keep digging that hole, Duncan, you’ll hit China some day. As a buddy of mine likes to say “localism: the new, trendier xenophobia”.
“There are tons of legit reasons for home-schooling; you shouldn’t resort to (arguably racist)”
I don’t like hip hop either. I think the culture is stupid and tribal and they need a spear and veldt to run on where their spirit can roam wild and free.
Btw, I would just LOVE to have Dunkie educate us all on these “Logan Square values and attitudes” are!
An Bob, I sentence you to a week of A Tribe Called Quest, 24/7. It’s allure is irresistible, even for the palest of persuasion.
“Back in the days on the boulevard of Linden
We used to kick routines and presence was fittin’
It was I, The Abstract And me, the five footer…”
no skeptic, Lupe Fiasco fits bob perfectly all anti establishment and intelligent and such
I just wiki’d him Lupe’s not so bad afterall–not as great as Boondocks Uncle Ruckus though.
yeah but Lupe’s music is the shit
Several years ago there was a story about Rachel Barton. She has been in continual drug and physical therapy sice the accident and told the writer that motherhood wouldn’t be an option for her under such circumstances.
Wikipedia says she has a daughter…
Maybe adopted or test-tube/surrogate?
“Maybe adopted or test-tube/surrogate?”
Wrong-O:
“Violinist Rachel Barton Pine, a longtime audience favorite, was supposed to open the Phil’s season. Then she found out she was pregnant and had to cancel. (She will be back and bring her new baby with her, Franz says.)”
Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2011/09/16/1800887/boise-philharmonic-to-premiere.html#ixzz1ZRqEVPXS
“Wrong-O”
Can you rule out test tube?
“yeah but Lupe’s music is the shit”
That’s today’s groupon for me, albeit in dekalb.
“Can you rule out test tube?”
I can rule out test-tube/surrogate, which was suggested as a combo, based on the sentence structure.
And, the issue of being on (multiple?) prescription drugs shouldn’t have a long term effect on fertility, just make pregnancy a temporarily *bad* idea.
“That’s today’s groupon for me, albeit in dekalb.”
wow if I only had a car, I’d be there! He was awesome at the north coast music festival 2 summers ago, he really throws a good show
“And, the issue of being on (multiple?) prescription drugs shouldn’t have a long term effect on fertility, just make pregnancy a temporarily *bad* idea.”
Have you thought about working for about.com or some other content farm? If you can bang out articles quickly enough…