Trying to Sell a 4-Bedroom Lincoln Park Duplex Down for 17 Months: 2629 N. Southport
The large duplex downs like this 4-bedroom at 2629 N. Southport in Lincoln Park were a staple of the building boom between 2004 and 2007.
This unit has been on and off the market since September 2009 and has been reduced $69,100.
It is listed $95,900 more than the 2005 purchase price.
2 of the bedrooms are on the main floor and 2 are on the lower level along with the family room.
The kitchen has cherry cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
The master bathroom is marble.
There is a wine fridge and garage parking.
Is this a good single family home replacement?
Nancy Finley at Keller Williams Lincoln Park has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2800 square feet, 1 car garage parking
- Sold in January 2005 for $639,000
- Sold in November 2005 for $704,000
- Originally listed in September 2009 for $869,000
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed for $799,900
- Assessments of $239 a month
- Taxes of $8983
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 17×13 (main level)
- Bedroom #2: 10×10 (main level)
- Bedroom #3: 17×12 (lower level)
- Bedroom #4: 12×12 (lower level)
- Family room: 28×17 (lower level)
The fourth bedroom and all that sq footage are nice and all, but:
1) location
2) half the home’s below grade (including two of the bedrooms)
3) what’s the elem school? (I honestly don’t know, but is it one that folks buying $800k condos with wine fridges are eager to send the kids?)
4) location.
They don’t seem to be in that big of a hurry to move, which is good (I’m not interested in seeing peak-buyers suffer, unlike some folks on here).
“•Sold in November 2005 for $704,000
•Originally listed in September 2009 for $869,000”
Bwahahahahahaha! Seriously though, I feel bad for these people, but come on.
These interiors/buildings are beginning to blur: such a pat formula that now says “post-millennium”. They are beginning to become 1984-like oppressive. 600K maybe based upon square footage- long shot.
Another member of the LP mass delusion.
why 800k to live in a basement when you can do it for free at your parents house?
why pay 800k to live in a basement when you can do it for free at your parents house?
No, that is what these buyers thought in 2005 but given the crib shot I’d say no.
“Is this a good single family home replacement?”
$575k and that’s generous.
No, Prescott, which may have a bright furtue someday, is not where Hamilton and (maybe) jahn are headed. It is somewhat adjacent to Agassiz but I don’t think in the attendance area. There are efforts being made but I haven’t heard the buzz that Burley, Hamilton and a few of the other surrounding elems are getting.
“3) what’s the elem school? (I honestly don’t know, but is it one that folks buying $800k condos with wine fridges are eager to send the kids?)”
Without looking at the map, I think the school has to be Prescott
anyone want to comment on this area of LP?
“formerroscoevillager”
so why did you change your name? where did you go?
Prescott will have a turn in the lower grades soon is my prediction. there are many stuck yuppies in thier homes there and will trade in the double wide stroller walks to the park with the obligatory AWD cross-over drive to the PTA meetings
I said in the other thread that duplex downs in the $600k to $850k were a dime a dozen. There are several others on Southport just a few blocks away from this one (in the slightly lower price range and slightly smaller.) But these properties are all over both LP and Lakeview and all are priced over conforming loan limits.
I feel like a broken record, but I simply do not get the appeal of a duplex down.
I would never willingly live on the ground floor, let alone in a basement.
Groove – traded the 1 bed for a huge 3 bed (with laundry and garage!) for only a couple bucks more in Lincoln Square. We will have our own suv caliber stroller to push around soon enough and while we loved the shops etc on Roscoe we couldn’t swing living near them and shopping there.
I agree that there will be an influx of yuppies in most N. Side schools, I just think that Prescott is one of the less insulated schools on an attendance area basis.
This area is one I couldn’t quite understand as it is not what I would look for in LP, there isn’t really train access so if you commute to the loop it would be a hassle – i don’t see paying a premium to be car reliant and live in a basement.
“I’m not interested in seeing peak- buyers suffer, unlike some folks on here”
If they paid what they could afford, why would they suffer?
LOL, groove. I used that line on my sis when she bought a new “garden unit” up by the music box. Seepage and sewage probs, some floors replaced, all disclosed and still made a near 6 fig profit prior to the peak.
River North Lurker – u really think this is going to go for $575k or less? This is our target market and 4BR in LP/Lakeview that are updated have been moving for $600k+ even in last year’s market. Yes, even not in the yuppie school districts.
I say the Jan ’05 price of $640k moves this place (certainly NOT $869k).
“I’m not interested in seeing peak-buyers suffer, unlike some folks on here”
Oh I am. Whether its Whacked Out Sports, Tosh.0 or idiots overpaying for real estate during the boom I love a good train wreck.
I consider myself too intelligent to do any of the things you see on those programs or overpay for RE during the boom but I am fascinated by the behavior of those who lack and abundance of caution that I seem to possess.
“LOL, groove. I used that line on my sis when she bought a new “garden unit” up by the music box.”
as cheap as i am on housing i never even rented a garden apartment.
to help you visualize how much i think garden apt/units (below grade living) suck/are bad/really suck, to save money once i chose to rent on the west side over a garden apartment
“Groove – traded the 1 bed for a huge 3 bed (with laundry and garage!) for only a couple bucks more in Lincoln Square. We will have our own suv caliber stroller to push around soon enough”
I went over to Lincoln Square at lunch wanted to stop at Piggy Toes but had a odd craving for Tre Kronors meatballs and sidetracked.
cograts on the double wide addtions 🙂 PS do the city mini double wide and thank me later!
“River North Lurker – u really think this is going to go for $575k or less? ”
Yes.
Duplex down. 2 bedrooms on the sewage level
Non-prime area of LP
My $575k is ~$205/sq ft. Not an unreasonable estimate IMO
formerroscoevillager – You moved out of the hood and we moved in from Pilsen. Curious, you mention that Jahn *might* be heading in the direction of being a good CPS option. Is that true? No kids yet but have thought about it and was curious if Jahn was heading that way. What makes you say that? Curious…..
sewage level – i like that instead of below grade.
i must say though, if this drops to %575k, i think we’d immediately jump on it for ask. so i will hope it gets there!!
I actually dont mind the location too much, nothin wrong with SoPo and WW…but duplex downs, ugh…cold, damp, I have been in very few that are well insualted, especially when you get further east to the lake. That said, it least this isn’t long and skinny, has some width to it.
625k. sold.
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
10/03/2005 11/03/2005 MORTGAGE $563,200.00
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
10/03/2005 11/03/2005 MORTGAGE $70,400.00
80/10/10 Financing.
PREVIOUS OWNER:
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
01/29/2004 02/02/2004 MORTGAGE $539,000.00
85% financing.
I imagine these owners want to leave the city. The patriarch of the family works in Joliet. Imagine that commute. ergh.
onlooker, as far as I have heard the number of kids that live near Jahn and attend is going up, which means the number of kids they truck in from elsewhere is going down. This has been a positive pattern in other schools in the W Lakeview / RV area and I *think* that the school admin supports the parents but I have heard conflicting stories about the parents. When we lived there our attendance school was Hamilton and we talked to a few parents and got fairly involved when they had a fundraiser for all-day kindergarden (we lived across the damn street and they had a kids stuff sale, helooo used bugaboo). I am not as intimately familliar with Jahn but the attitude of the area is changing towards the elem schools. Like Groove pointed out, you see the change in the lower grades first. We are just having our first now so we figured in the next couple years the trend looked good for our situation, we just want the option of living on one income so we had to move. I joked with my wife that we are the only people on the planet who moved to RV, got married then moved out when we had kids. backwards huh?
Groove, love the city-mini might do it for when kid 2 happens, right now we have a bugaboo and a bob (both garage sale/craigslist finds we will likely pick one and sell the other).
HD – splains why they didn’t need to be in transit oriented area.
“I’m not interested in seeing peak-buyers suffer, unlike some folks on here”
I really don’t think it’s so much seeing the buyers suffer as it is seeing the whole market and the investor mentality that propped prices to absurd levels come down.
I never thought back in college that when I got to the 120k salary level that all I would be able to comfortably afford would be a nice 2-bed condo in a reasonable neighborhood.
Two to three years from now, when prices have finally truly corrected, I believe this will be better.
I don’t wish anyone ill will but these folks are kidding themselves, badly. This is not a single family home, and for that asking price there are pretty good single family options around there.
I don’t bring up appraisals too much, but I don’t think that this property would appraise for anything near that asking (and what to see how an appraisal treats that square footage), which makes getting a loan very difficult unless you have a lot more than 20% to put down.
Just way, way overpriced. I don’t hate duplex downs (although I don’t like them) but they have to be appropriately discounted. Have the place is basically a basement and even counting that space it’s still $280 a sqft. Absurd. I think that a buyer is nuts at anything over $625k.
formerroscovillager – thanks for the info. I don’t think your move it all that odd. I have good friends raising 3 in LS. They love it. Great access to the el for their jobs downtown and lots of activities for them and the kids. And who doesn’t love Welles Park? I was part of the ‘largest guitar lesson ever’ there through the old town school of folk music a while back – that place is great! I have always said I would love to have a bunch of different places in the city so I could go to which ever neighborhood I felt like that day…issue is getting all your clothes and furiture at each one! Between my husband and I we have lived in RV, Wrigley, Pilsen, Humboldt, Ukranian Village, Uptown and some others I am sure I am missing. There were up sides and down sides to each one, that’s the fun of it all!
“Groove, love the city-mini might do it for when kid 2 happens, right now we have a bugaboo and a bob (both garage sale/craigslist finds we will likely pick one and sell the other).”
i learned the hard way that by age 1.5 the stroller is only used for coats and bags at the mall 🙂 We dont even use a stroller any more, if he is tired i just carry him. qas anon could tell you we had way too many strollers for one kid and way too many expensive ones, peg perego skate at full price, and almost got the stokke cause it looked neat, Bob iron man full price and never could get the little monkey to sit still for a full run, quinny zapp full price for travel, and list goes on. most are sold now but have a few stragglers for #2 if that happens.
also with schools taking turns i am kind of change my views on this as i had the philosophy that stuck “would flee too burbs” parents will change the schools, but with budget cuts and overcrowding and a few rough years ahead, i would not hedge that a school will turn i would just stick to the ones that are proven YOY and even then some of those staples have been slipping *test wise
The sellers are truly stuck if they think they’re going to walk away unscathed. Given that one of sellers is an attorney I imagine this might be one of two things: pay off the second mortgage at closing, and part of the first with attorneys fees from a big settlement; or two – strategic default with a settlement on the 2nd mortgage somewhere down the line. These people got in over their heads spending too much money especially as a solo guy right out of law school. I imagine there are student loans too. Everybody had a good year 2004/2005; I’m sure that’s where the 10% down payment came from. The default issue is a problem though because they won’t be able to get another mortgage if they default and i’m sure they need credit for the business. One thing you learn being out on your own is to keep your expenses very very low so that when times are lean you can live off the fat i.e. 2004/2005
This reminds me of that other attorney couple who bought that small $800,000 SFH in Bucktown in 2006 and now they’re trying to sell it for some absurd amount. Or that other attorney couple who bought that duplex in westtown IIRC for some ridiculous amount and it’s just languishing on the market. Notice a theme here among attorneys spending too much of their money during boom times? There’s attorneys in my office the same way. Made good money all throughout their career, but the annual 14 day vacations to Napa, the Lexus SUV, the big house in the suburbs, the spending spending spending…it all requires a certain level of fixed income to maintain that lifestyle. and if there is but one lesson to learn from teh great recession, it’s that the good times don’t necessarily go on forever and in perpetuity. Just because you made $150,000 last year with two good settlements doesn’t mean you’re going to make $150,000 this year. I’ve need a number fo 50 and 60 year old attorneys in my profession bust out after trying to keep up with the attorney lifestyle. By the time they’re 60 they’re too old to get new clients, they’ve spent a good chunk of their earnings, their house is worth far less than they thought for retirement purposes and the younger partners view them as dead weight. And they are. That’s why many of those bigger firms had rules to kick out older partners when they neared retirement age.
whatever, it’s friday and I’m rambling on, like sonies said the other day, there’s a non-diddlers premium out there and I’d like to earn that today.
Groove – So many people I talked to have a fleet of strollers, I was amazed to find the bob rev in the box never used on CL for 50% off list. (May or may not be legit the seller had a plausible story). Bought it immediately. We like our long walks and from friends who have done it the BOB is the best for the job although many who could afford it loved the bugaboo. Thank god for the garage spot. we may someday use it for the car…
Ours will be the first grandchild on both sides and, well, a girl – so uhhh there are not too many things we will actually need to buy for a while. But enough S#^! to pack the 3rd bedroom to the ceiling for sure.
onlooker, that is one of the things that held us back from pulling the trigger on a Jeff Park bungalow, we would never live in some of the hoods we still want to check out. So we rent and move periodically. Maybe not as often and once we want to be in a school for a while we will probably buy.
Perhaps we have another “Pre-short sale” listing here?
“My $575k is ~$205/sq ft. Not an unreasonable estimate IMO”
I think you’re being a bit too kind. While $205/sqft seems reasonable below grade PPSF is significantly below above grade PPSF. A little detail that was forgotten by a lot of people during the boom but is now coming back to bite them.
homedelete, it’s very hard to guess what solos are making, and for PI work it’s not too tied to the economy (it can even be counter-cyclical in many cases, as bad economic times lead to better sob stories and more job loss-related damages for plaintiffs, as well as a perception of more sympathetic juries and judges.) I know many who do extremely well a few years out, and this guy has been out for 8 years. You don’t hear about 2002 grads from Bradley making bank when they work at firms very often, but if you want to grind plaintiff’s cases you can make a great living if you play hungry. Cook County is very friendly to plaintiffs. I could tell you about some settlements the portions of which guys like this take would exceed your income and my income, no doubt. You can search verdicts for his name if you want to, but those are maybe 1% of payouts. Multiple offices means higher case intake, which is how these guys make money. The wife is a nurse, too, so the income may very well be there to afford to take a loss. Looks like they’re holding out for a payday, though, which is consistent with the plaintiff’s lawyers I know! Your info is interesting but a smart lawyer has to remember the limitations of the public info and the leaps in logic one might make.
Groove speaks the truth about the City Minis. After a year and a half with an Orbit, Bob Rev and McClarren Volo (for travel), I thought we had the ultimate fleet. Ended up getting a City Mini late in the game (Groove’s also correct that strollers largely become bag/coat transports), and will say that it is everything that it’s cracked up to be and more. Only criticism would be that it doesn’t handle so well in serious snow (unlike, e.g., the Orbit and, obviously, the Bob).
again, I’ll argue for the value of duplex downs for a certain segment of the population (probably not well represented on this website), empty nesters who don’t want stairs to master bedroom and want room for visitors and hobbies–but sewer/flooding issues have to be checked carefully and there must be independent access to the back deck (not through master bedroom), which tends to make master smaller. But if you’re the only ones living there, that doesn’t really matter.
JJJ – you’re right. Some solo PI attorneys make bank, just absolute bank; but others don’t make anything filing UM claims again Apollo Ins. I too dabble in PI and I usually generate six figures in fees without more than 300 or 400 hours of work cherry picking cases from a captive client base – but accordingly, I have no idea what kind of money this guy makes. But I can tell you this: this was a 2005 purchase with 10% down and now they want out and the listing price is just absurd. Take what you want away from that.
“The wife is a nurse, too,”
Too bad she can’t afford to nurse his credit score after this fiasco plays out.
Mover, like everything there is an appeal to some buyers. I think the price needs to reflect that a basement is not a great to all buyers as a upper floor.
Big place and I like the patio but why does anybody think they can offer above 2005 price these days?
“Only criticism would be that it doesn’t handle so well in serious snow”
thanks for the snaps annony, and if i could go back i would buy a snap and go and a city mini and call it day. I still stand buy my rec of quinny zap for airline travel.
but if you buy a duplex down do you think the city mini has a “boat” attachment or anti mold canopy?
ok i kid, i kid
“We like our long walks and from friends who have done it the BOB is the best for the job although many who could afford it loved the bugaboo.”
We loved the BOB where there were no pedestrians to avoid, but the bugaboo with the riding board was the hands down winner with kids 3 yrs apart.
The sitting space in front of the fireplaces on both levels looks like it’s probably never used. One could lump off 300 sf x 2, or 600 sf off the total because of it.
Maybe you have some bad sidewalks in whatever part of the city you are in, but we’ve used the $20 Babys R Us umbrella stroller since he could sit up in it. We can’t believe that it hasn’t fallen apart yet, but it just soldiers on.
We definitely have the “worst” stroller at the playground, but our kid is taller, better looking, and way more advanced than all the other same-age kids there. We don’t mind the trade off.
My theory on the neighborhood schools in areas like Bucktown, West LV, etc. is that many of them are improving rapidly because of the familes stuck in the 2/2’s haven’t been able to bail for the suburbs. I personally know two couples in this situation, they would be in the burbs by now but they can’t move their places. However when (if) the market improves in 3 to 4 years and they can sell they will still bolt to the burbs. So what will happen to these schools when the real estate market picks up. Will the suburb flight resume and some schools will suffer again?
“However when (if) the market improves in 3 to 4 years and they can sell they will still bolt to the burbs. So what will happen to these schools when the real estate market picks up. Will the suburb flight resume and some schools will suffer again?”
3 to 4 years is a long time. The parents may have a lot of time and effort invested in the local school and may be very happy with the direction it is heading. If the kid has a lot of good friends, the parents may decide that it is better to just stay put.
The funny part is all the other parents think their kid is way more advanced and better looking.
Chris: I agree with you. It’s the parents and the kids that make the school, not the teachers union, the amount of funds spent per pupil, midnight basketball, free breakfast/lunch/dinners, the architecture of the physical plant, metal detectors, or any of that other crap.
“many of them are improving rapidly because of the familes stuck in the 2/2’s haven’t been able to bail for the suburbs. “
Wicker, if u see this, can’t be of much assistance in sao paulo, not a huge fan, just a massive sprawl to me. But absolutely anything i can do to help u out with in Rio just ask. Stay,eat,cell service,hookers,etc… Would be my pleasure.
Ok on a completely unrelated note: seems you guys know quite a bit about strollers. What do you recommend buying? I was thinking of just getting the Maclaren as it is light weight. My friends keep telling me jogging strollers are useless as they are heavy and any ways I cannot see my self running with a stroller. Any thought on that? (PS: sorry Sabrina for being selfish and off topic)
is it legal to walk down the street in Chicago drinking from, obviously, an open bottle of beer?
Just told someone it is but based it on almost getting arrested for doing it in DC.
“It’s the parents and the kids that make the school”
I agree. The mistake being made is in assuming that those who got themselves “stuck” in a 2/2 with an undesirable local school are capable of making the kind of parental decisions that actually “make the school.”
“The mistake being made is in assuming that those who got themselves “stuck” in a 2/2 with an undesirable local school are capable of making the kind of parental decisions that actually “make the school.””
my vote for cribchatter quote of the day!! good stuff
I also concur with the parents thing. I don’t imagine those parents who are working so hard for a school turnaround are those who would take off. Maybe they start that way but if they get the results they want who knows.
It is not legal to have an open container of alcohol in public from my understanding. That said, if u brown bag it or red cup it, an officer hasw to have a reason to ask u what is in the cup or bag, similar to how an officier has to have a reason to pull u over while driving.
I red cup it all the time in the summer.
miumiu: Once your kid is past the infant stage, the City Mini is the way to go.
If you don’t plan to run with your kid, don’t get a jogger; if you plan to run with your kid, then get one (and the Bob Rev is fine…nobody is running with their kids longer than 40 minutes or so anyways, so I don’t see the point of getting the superior jogging strollers).
I’m not sure how the City Mini works with infant seats (as we got ours at the toddler stage). But if you’re willing and/or able to splurge for something just for the first year or so of use, I would submit that the Orbit is the best (and spring for the craddle while you’re at it, which you’ll only use for a couple of months, but is worth it). The Orbit infant seat is very easy to get in and out of the car and turns 360 degrees with ease while on the stroller (turning it 90 degrees towards a table comes in very handy). The Orbit stroller handles extremely well over all sorts of terrain, and is very durable. Provided that you also get the pannier/saddle bags (which quickly fold down when not in use), there’s plenty of room for stuff/grocery bages, etc. The toddler seat, which you’d get a year or so later, is o.k., but doesn’t work as well as the infant seat. And, as discussed above, at the infant stage, the City Mini is hard to beat.
“an officer has to have a reason to ask u what is in the cup or bag, ”
Not in my experience.
thanks a-fed. Like being treated like a child.
The only thing this place has going for it is that it is four bedrooms, which do seem to command a premium in LV/LP. That said, a place just up the street from this (duplex down with 3br) came on the market this week at 650K, which is crazy considering there are townhouses with 3br and more square footage in the same general area for less.
“is it legal to walk down the street in Chicago drinking from, obviously, an open bottle of beer?”
Nope. And you make the beat cops job very easy and justifiable by doing so. Its about the only kind of crime they are capable of solving.
Most of the time you’ll just get a warning and have to pour it out if it’s not a very busy area like a residential sidestreet. But depending on their mood or if its a real busy area you’ll get a ticket (which you don’t have to pay but still).
“The mistake being made is in assuming that those who got themselves “stuck” in a 2/2 with an undesirable local school are capable of making the kind of parental decisions that actually “make the school.”
Ditto. If ma & pa made the mistake of paying lets say the market PPSF of above grade square footage for their entire duplex down half of which is below grade, I’m guessing junior/juniorette doesn’t have a lot to work with.
“is it legal to walk down the street in Chicago drinking from, obviously, an open bottle of beer?”
It is not. I have a funny story related to that, but it is too entirely outable, as I have related it too often. If you have any interest, ze (or any of my other fake internet friends, not that I expect you would, as it’s not *that* funny), hit the hotmail at anon_tfo.
The red cup is *almost* always safe, and the paper bag is okay, so long as CPD isn’t looking for a pretext to hassle you (or, in your case, ze, if you’re carrying contraband), then I wouldn’t risk it.
“The mistake being made is in assuming that those who got themselves “stuck” in a 2/2 with an undesirable local school are capable of making the kind of parental decisions that actually “make the school.””
Man, that’s harsh.
“Not in my experience.”
I’ve never been hassled with a red cup or covered container (then again I don’t frequently do the brown bag route as that is pushing it more in yuppie neighborhoods). Also how could they possibly issue a ticket for a container which didn’t identify it as an alcoholic beverage? They couldn’t. There are things I’ve heard of called non-alcoholic beer, which I’ve heard make great doorstops or supports for TV stands.
Ck- an officer has to have reasonable doubt to do anything. Most people just cave or are disresprectful and get in trouble.
Remember it is just as much for a citizen to know the laws as much as it is the officers.
Bob- I think…an open alcoholic container is a ticketable offense. Furthermore, u can get nailed for public intox too if u blow above .08….never blow, ever!
Brown Paper Bag speech from The Wire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2fV-_eiKxE
Duh!
when i get back to rio i’d like to hear the story anon. I once walking home thru tribeca did a bat hit, turned the corner, and blew it out only to have blown it right into a cops face. He just nodded in disaproval, shrugged his shoulders, and very fortunatly let me keep going. My DC story with the beer not as pretty. And my friend here still refuses to believe me that u can’t. I think i read that something rediculous like 60 percent of all arrests in manhattan last year involved possession. Money well spent!
“Ck- an officer has to have reasonable doubt to do anything. Most people just cave or are disresprectful and get in trouble. ”
Probable cause. Reasonable doubt is what the jury must not have in order to find you guilty.
And, you’d be surprised about how refined cops noses are when it comes to detecting alcohol (or certain types of smoke). They can smell alcohol from at least 10 yards, and determine it’s source with eerie precision. I think it’s a course at the Academy.
Also, everyone underestimates how erratically they are behaving, especially anytime they are carrying a red cup on a public way. Cops have a very objective eye for erratic behavior.
Stroller chatter: So citi mini trumps the maclaren triumph? I’m thinking either an orbit or a uppa baby for the “Travel System”. We don’t jog but do walk as much as possible everywhere. Not sure how much we’ll be wandering around w/ kiddo so I fear getting preyed on with no frame of refernece of what I need.
ze:
here’s the story link:
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/11/marijuana-arrests-increase-in-new-york-city/
More arrests for possession in 2010 that in 1978 to 1996 combined TOTAL. Don’t have the total arrest state to make the %age, nor carving out manhattan, but that’s out there, too.
i once told a cop that when about 4-5 were at my door. i was having a big party at my place. The sargeant, while smokin a cigar, just looked at me, told me how he’d find a reason later and don’t piss me off, pushed the door open walked in and pulled out the plug from my stereo and walked out…ah NYPD.
Btw.. Wicker u see my comment to u.
“The mistake being made is in assuming that those who got themselves “stuck” in a 2/2 with an undesirable local school are capable of making the kind of parental decisions that actually “make the school.””
You can make poor business decisions but still be a nice and intelligent person capable of raising a nice kid/ family. Think about it, they don’t teach you real estate in school…or not any school I went to. How would you learn about these things other than experience? Not everyone’s parents are good with money either. Most people in the Midwest are raised thinking it’s rude to talk about money. I only avoided the 2/2 trap because my wife and I make good money and went for the 3/3.5 to start. I was at least aware enough to reconigize the mass of crappy new construction was not the way to go and bought a 1930’s gut rehab.
You must remember that cops can do whatever they hell they want, you have to try and undo what they’ve done later. Illegal search turned up drugs? File your motion to quash. Illegally arrested without probable cause? Tell it to the judge. Don’t want your summary suspension of your DL on the 46th day because you were perfectly sober? Have your hearing.
I doubt their arresting traders, rich people or movie stars for possession.
The police is arresting the riff raff from other places and using the marijuana as a pre-text to the riff raff out. WHich is probably exactly how most manhattanites like it. They smoke in the privacy of their own apartments or their clubs.
ze: just saw it, thanks for the offer of help. I’ll get you an e-mail address to get recommendations when/if the trip firms up.
“You must remember that cops can do whatever they hell they want, you have to try and undo what they’ve done later.”
And, like I said, they have *amazing* powers of observation. And are very attuned to anything out of the ordinary, most of which out-of-the-ordinariness is sufficient to demonstrate probable cause to investigate the basis for the OOTO-ness.
good anlysis on that HD. I’d say thats accurate. Easy to know the answer if they are arresting the bike messenger guys. They are twice as fast as dominoes ever was. I’d call a 1-800 number and always within 15 min…..
HD: there is correlation and causation to drug use and low income, and high income with sobriety. This propaganda that “rich folk” use drugs or abuse alcohol at the rate of the lower classes is complete bullsh*t!! Part of the reason riff raff are riff raff and remain so is because they abuse substances in the first place.
It’s analogous to people who whine that high-crime neighborhoods don’t have chain stores. Well, get rid of the crime/drug use and then they’ll see some investment/higher income.
“They smoke in the privacy of their own apartments or their clubs.”
I’ve never been to NY but I imagine there is a lot of riff raff just around. Alot of the crimes in LP, Logan elsewhere, has been people from 10, 12 miles away taking the el places where ‘rich’ people are to commit their crimes. Just the other day I saw that hilarious Guardian Angels video where they arrested some 16 year old for swiping a camera on the red line at addison. The arrestee of the sexual assult that happened in area recently was from teh 10xxx block of south somewhere or other. i’m sure manhattan is no different. So rather than wait for the riff raff to start swiping cameras from tourists they just bust them for possession on the spot.
Dan: I never said it was at the same rate. I just said that when Pdiddy smokes dope he’s not doing it on the corner. That’s why he isn’t getting busted for possession of marijuana but the corner kids from Harlem to take teh subway to midtown are.
You even see these people in the Loop, dressed like complete ghetto criminals, with the jeans, the hats, sneakers, the black baggy jackets covered with a certain layer of grime. What business do they have in the Loop??? One time at lunch I followed a thug just to see what the guy was up to. Followed him about two blocks, he then went into an office building lobby and try to panhandle off two middle-aged black ladies, who rebuffed him, then he walked out back onto the sidewalk and marched on….
“…has been people from 10, 12 miles away taking the el places where ‘rich’ people are to commit their crimes.”
“Bob- I think…an open alcoholic container is a ticketable offense. Furthermore, u can get nailed for public intox too if u blow above .08….never blow, ever!”
Was once arrested in another state (hick state) for refusing to blow. In that state they can still arrest and they put boiler-plate language like “stumbling, slurred speech and watery eyes” even though none of it was true at the time.
Talked to a lawyer and was told unless I had a corroborating witness it would be my word against the cop’s and typically they win that one AND a trial would cost me $3k. Being a poor college kid had to plea out.
What’s sad is it’s apparently a common practice: I was reading in my undergrad newspaper a student athlete was recently arrested for the same offense and exact same boilerplate language was used in his police report and quoted in the newspaper.
I’ve also been justifiably arrested for PI as well but letting you know if the cops want to arrest you they could. In Chicago they aren’t going to arrest you for being drunk on the street unless you did something else but they can’t nab you for it (like throwing a newspaper holder in the street and they show up right after).
Anybody who trusts police is naive. Not that all are dishonest but if they want to nab you for something they typically can.
Oh yeah and because my wrongful arrest was not a jail-able offense I was not afforded a free public defender.
Its also amusing to see these thugged out morons carrying guns. Every time I see one I’m like dude, you are so obviously carrying a heavy gun in your pants and there’s a reason you are “holding your belt” while you walk why would you be such a frickin idiot and walk around a place where you know there are assloads of police (like in RN or the Loop), do you really want to go to prison for something as stupid as concealed carry?
“So rather than wait for the riff raff to start swiping cameras from tourists they just bust them for possession on the spot.”
They could easily do this in Chicago too if they wanted. One of the few times I was ever on the redline in the wee hours (which I try not to make a habit of) there were youths passing a joint around. They even offered it to me. This was in the subway portion of the redline too not down near 95th.
I had to change cars because I had some on my person as well and didn’t want to be there for the fuzz to make their easy arrests.
Dan: one man’s ‘ghetto criminal’ is another man’s paying client. I see riff raff all the time down town but it is usually around the Daley Center or 32 W Randolph.
Why the hell are you following random people around the loop anyways? What the hell is wrong with you?
“do you really want to go to prison for something as stupid as concealed carry?”
You think they goto prison for that? They goto 26th & California for a couple of weeks. They don’t lose their jobs because they don’t have one. They’re not worried about a record because they already have one.
That’s the idiocy of Daley’s stance on guns.
Bob’s really sharing a lot of personal information today: DUI arrest and plea, public intoxication arrests, he smokes weed, he uses the red line. And I thought I was giving away too much by claiming to dabble in personal injury cases a couple hundred hours a year.
why was he on the Red Line at 95th?
whooo hooo… I’m helping level the poor-rich playing field everytime i light up.
Actually HD there is almost no riff raff in what a manhattanite calls manhattan- south of 96st. 20 times worse in the loop…Always bothered me that somedays there was a beggar on practically every corner in the loop. Well except the guy that just keeps saying haaapppyyy mooonnnddaayyy…. He always made me smile.
“the guy that just keeps saying haaapppyyy mooonnnddaayyy”
Do I recall correctly hearing that he passed away?
I agree that police have plenty of power…but knowing the laws can be of great assistance.
How can an illegal search happen if you lock your vehicle and don’t let the officer in. He then has to obtain a warrant (or break your window) and provide reasonable doubt to do so. Call your lawyer or a friend to wittness what is happening at this point in time. Yes, you will have to go before a judge to state your case, but that’s just an inconvenience, better than strike 1, 2 or 3.
Most people get so frightened so quickly and cave to the officers demands. Yes, it is a hassle and by fighting you can get in more trouble than giving in but still…
Bob – all police are crooks, completely agree never trust them. Just as when they bring you into their squad car, they are recording everything you say to use against you in the court of law. Take it from someone who *hates* police as my grandfather was a South Philly cop during the riots of 70’s-80’s…I know my fare share of how to deal with officers…Always be polite and never say too much, less is more – or don’t say anything but “I want to speak to my lawyer and cite the time.”
ok i have chucled a bit and said hey that was funny but i just got tears from the what the hell is wrong with you following someone a few blocks for comment…. Didnt stop and think about what would trigger someone to do it when i first read it… Visualizing it is hilarious.
“Bob’s really sharing a lot of personal information today: DUI arrest and plea, public intoxication arrests, he smokes weed, he uses the red line.”
Today HD is sharing a lot about his reading comprhension skills.
Did I ever say I was driving? Was NOT a DUI arrest.
Don’t smoke weed anymore and don’t use the red line anymore either (guess those two go hand in hand haha).
“why was he on the Red Line at 95th?”
They’re smoking weed on the Red line all over the place. Mine observation was in the subway portion near downtown.
And you don’t think the proliferation of marijuana arrests has riff raff away? It’s like saying “come hang out here and you will get busted.” They mostly carry weed on them. Even if they’re hnot actively participating in riff raff, the possession charge alone is enough to deter them.
It’s a big sign that says “hang out here
“Actually HD there is almost no riff raff in what a manhattanite calls manhattan- south of 96st.”
“How can an illegal search happen if you lock your vehicle and don’t let the officer in. He then has to obtain a warrant (or break your window) and provide reasonable doubt to do so. Call your lawyer or a friend to wittness what is happening at this point in time.”
I was arrested at a party the cops showed up in the backyard for asking what they were doing there. One cop immediately pointed to me and said I was going to jail tonight. I don’t believe anyone even let them in the backyard so even that was illegal entry.
“provide reasonable doubt”
Again, don’t use that line on a cop. Ever. It’s “probable cause”.
also, another key point is to shake your head yes or no rather than verbally stating yes or no….he will ask you to speak up…it is your right not to.
An exmaple of getting out of a ticket: I received a citation a year ago for making a u-turn within 100 ft of an intersection, with a dotted seperated line, and no sign stating no u-turn (u turns are legal in chicago). I did not try to talk my way out what so ever and the officer had video evidence that I made such a maneuever. I went to court, was very respectful to the judge citing the law in full, and won due to the fact that they could not proove I was “within 100ft of the intersection” I claimed my front bumper was more than 100′ and that the video evidence was not calibrated to show where 100′ started and ended. It was the officiers judgement, which is a subjective analysis, thus not objective, to proove that I was within 100′. They had reasonable doubt but not sufficient objective evidence to proove beyond a reasonable doubt.
Winner: A-Fed.
““provide reasonable doubt”
Again, don’t use that line on a cop. Ever. It’s “probable cause”.”
Agreed. But you can use it in front of a judge.
there is an EXCELLENT book called i think power of persuasion that 1 chapter gets totally into all the psych tests about how people will do almost anything asked of them if it is someone they grew up believing were authority figures. Down here when i got my ranch one of the first things i did was ‘hire’ cops for security. One even gave me a gun and told me to keep it. In the big cleanup going on here they often set up checkpoints, been pulled to the side twice, told them i am good friends with their partners, said a name or two and on my way…..
“I don’t believe anyone even let them in the backyard so even that was illegal entry.”
They thought they saw a dead body, or a sexual assault, or an unattended toddler, or contraband in plain sight. Turns out they were wrong, but the “exigent circumstances” (another phrase that pays) gave them the probable cause to enter the property. And you, Bob, were either D&D or impeding an investigation.
That’s how that works folks. And why I minimize my interaction with police to the maximum possible extent, even when I’ve got *nothing* to hide.
a-fed:
Traffic court is based upon ‘the preponderance of the evidence’ which is a much much lower standard than beyond a reasonable doubt, which is for misdemeanors and felonies.
they say that being your own lawyer is like being your own plumber – when shit goes wrong you have only yourself to blame.
anon tfo –
“Probable Cause” is sufficient evidence to give a reasonable person cause to believe that a person committed a crime. It is the standard needed to give a police officer grounds to make an arrest.
“Beyond reasonable doubt” is the standard needed to ‘convict’ a person of a crime. It is a higher standard.
The reason for the gap is that it requires a higher standard of proof to PROVE that someone committed a crime than just to accuse them of it.
And when you’re over at 400 W. Superior the standard of evidence is “nobody leaves here without paying $500 bucks, nobody.”
“Again, don’t use that line on a cop. Ever. It’s “probable cause”.”
Not a lawyer but here’s my advice from a lawyer friend:
Never use legalese on a cop if you aren’t a lawyer. Even if you are you might not want to reveal that right then and there. A-fed called it right: STFU around cops if you’re getting taken in for something or being questioned about something you did.
Most cops get a kick out of busting someone who watched a few too many court TV shows and was trying to act like an arm-chair lawyer, you’re just an idiot smartass in the cop’s eyes. There is little to nothing you can do at the time of arrest to better your case other than not saying shit (also be courteous to the arresting officers but try not to do anything memorable–if you’re a prick or calling them names that’s more motivation for them to show up to court). When or about to be getting arrested only say: I’m sorry I can’t talk to you.
You do NOT have a right to speak with an attorney in the back of a squadcar either that’s another common misconception (you have the right to remain silent though). You only have the right to have an attorney present during a formal interview. Often times no formal interview is required.
Often times the cop need not even show up to court because if you make a statement implicating yourself and the cop can’t show but that statement is still introduced as evidence that could be enough for the prosecution to get a continuance and have another court date set vs getting a dismissal on the spot.
“anon tfo – [explanation of pc/rd]”
Seriously? Pontificate all you want, but don’t address it to me.
You’re the one who in this thread wrote:
“He [the cop] then has to obtain a warrant (or break your window) and provide reasonable doubt to do so.”
and
“an officer has to have reasonable doubt to do anything.”
“You do NOT have a right to speak with an attorney in the back of a squadcar either that’s another common misconception ”
You have the right to speak to an attorney once your marinda warning (rights) have been read to you, which is “supposed” to be prior to detainment…the part that says “you have the right to remain silent, you have the right to an attorney, blah blah”
“an officer has to have reasonable doubt to do anything.”
I mean convict you of anything. Anyone can detain someone. I can put you under citizens arrest. I dont really care if you arrest or detain me, conviction is the money shot.
““He [the cop] then has to obtain a warrant (or break your window) and provide reasonable doubt to do so.” ”
I am no lawyer so this is about where my knowledge ends…I thought in order to obtain a warrant or conduct lawful entry, you needed reasonable doubt, not just probable cause.
I saw a homeless man downtown last week pushing his belongings in a bugaboo. It still seemed to maneuver well, but I bet some nanny was in trouble when she came back from the park without a stroller.
“You have the right to speak to an attorney once your marinda warning (rights) have been read to you, which is “supposed” to be prior to detainment…”
Incorrect–another misconception common on TV. Miranda rights only have to be read prior to formal questioning. In my arrests they’ve never been read–remember a lot of crimes they don’t need an interview and have sufficient evidence to proceed with arrest.
Anything you offer up to cops is on you. Often times they will try to make small talk on the way to the station as a way to get you to loosen up and admit something. If the cop is trying to make small talk and you admit to doing it it is completely admissible. Jailers will also try to make small talk and anything you state to them, or even to other people in lockup/county is admissible.
There is a reason lockup has those cameras and I’d be willing to bet $ they have sound recording capability as well.
Bob: “[don’t talk to cops]”
Which is fundamentally my point in noting “don’t say ‘reasonable doubt’ to a cop”. It’s so far removed from anything that’s relevant as to just piss them off. And they understand “probable cause” and yes, will likely be pissed about being challenged on that, but at least you’d be posing a relevant issue.
ah HD plumbing is easy….i once litigated by myself a trial in federal bankruptcy court vs 6 partners of Wilkkie Farr. First hearing i beat them. Judge was furious at them, so judge tells me i need to come back and show something. I figure slam dunk, i got them. I walk in no prep but what he asked for and he tells me he doesnt care. I am lost for what to say but know saying ‘but your honor you told me…’ Is not going to be the right thing to say. Other side goes off on some 30 min speech and i got nothing!!! Was funny how hard i got rolled that day. I’m like damn they were good.
“I saw a homeless man downtown last week pushing his belongings in a bugaboo. It still seemed to maneuver well, but I bet some nanny was in trouble when she came back from the park without a stroller.”
Surprising number get left out front of people’s homes.
You don’t want to F around in Federal court. Unless you’ve been trained on the federal rules of bankruptcy procedure you don’t step foot in there.
“You don’t want to F around in Federal court. Unless you’ve been trained on the federal rules of bankruptcy procedure you don’t step foot in there.”
The number of “BK lawyers” who have no clue is shocking. Look at that short guy who advertises a lot.
Guess how they cracked the Darien murders to get both suspects implicated despite having little evidence against the mastermind? They put them in lockup next to each other so they could record their conversations talking about it. Game, set & match.
There’s not a lot to do in lockup and it’s designed for sensory deprivation so inmates sit around and wait for any relief, that relief comes in the form of the inmate in the cell next door to talk to.
“Which is fundamentally my point in noting “don’t say ‘reasonable doubt’ to a cop”. It’s so far removed from anything that’s relevant as to just piss them off. And they understand “probable cause” and yes, will likely be pissed about being challenged on that, but at least you’d be posing a relevant issue.”
True. One exception would be if you’re related to the police chief, the mayor, or the DA or a well known good defense attorney in town. But you’d better have the same last name or some way to prove that at the time of arrest. If it’s going to make headlines probably best to try to weasel out of it right then & there.
Had a friend in HS whose dad was a former DA and well known defense attorney in town and let’s just say he was able to weasel out of a bit.
“Incorrect–another misconception common on TV. Miranda rights only have to be read prior to formal questioning”
Interesting…didn’t know that. Thanks Bob!
I always just STFU and say “may I please speak to my lawyer now?”.
anon i don’t think he’s walking into federal in greenbelt, md vs the guy who gets apointed personally by president obama to restructure the automobile industry. What HD said is correct. I did very complicated volunteer work for the court and was given an enormous level of leniency, otherwise insane. But that was the whole fun part, doing something completely nutty. Will never forget that one. I went 1 win and 1 loss. Awesome!!! Oh and of course i was waaaasted both times…. Roflmao
u see us jews are required to know never say anything to a cop before we can be bar-mitzvahed.
“Interesting…didn’t know that. Thanks Bob!”
Yup as an example if you’re in the back of a paddy wagon/squad car and going in and the cop goes: “so were you at the Cubs game earlier?” and you answer “yeah was at the game went to a few bars had a lot to drink and never intended to but ” the cop just has you on record admitting to whatever it is you were arrested for and can put that in his report.
Means right off the bat the prosecution has a much better chance of getting a continuance if the witness or cop doesn’t show vs. basically zero chance of their witness doesn’t show.
Interesting…didn’t know that. Thanks Bob!”
Yup as an example if you’re in the back of a paddy wagon/squad car and going in and the cop goes: “so were you at the Cubs game earlier?” and you answer “yeah was at the game went to a few bars had a lot to drink and [blah blah blah] and never intended to but [blah blah blah]” the cop just has you on record admitting to whatever it is you were arrested for and can put that in his report.
Means right off the bat the prosecution has a much better chance of getting a continuance if the witness or cop doesn’t show vs. basically zero chance of their witness doesn’t show.
Wow, anon(tfo) basically admitted he has a law degree (“don’t address it to me!”) and gringo is jewish.
“anon(tfo) basically admitted he has a law degree”
Or that I have a basic understanding of the difference between probable cause and reasonable doubt which one can pick up getting a crim justice associates degree and/or working as a prison guard and/or having a close relative wrongfully prosecuted for multiple felonies. It ain’t rocket surgery or brain science.
Here’s a few tips:
1) if the cop asks if you’ve been drinking, the answer is ‘no’ – as soon as you’ve admitted to drinking ‘just one beer’, you are really admitting to drinking a six pack.
2) refuse all field sobriety tests.
3) only blow if you are SURE you can pass. You MUST be positive or else it is game over.
4) NEVER blow on your second even though it means three years no license. I’d rather have three years no license on a summary suspension than one year no license due to a revocation. Good luck getting it back after the revocation! you better be in AA classes or have found god (or hire a particular $6,000 lawyer in the suburbs)…
5) if you crash and you are drunk then run run run and hide hide hide. the cops will find your car and charge you with leaving the scene but they CANNOT charge you with DUI if they can’t find you. WHo was the bears player, briggs, that crashed his car after leaving level and just took off?
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/bears/2007-08-27-briggs-car_N.htm
6) if you are so wasted, like above a .16, you’re probably too drunk to get out of the DUI and you don’t belong on the road in the first place. It’s the borderline cases that you can weasel out of like the .09’s .10, but if you’re the asshole with a .16 F U you could kill somebody.
7) I can honestly testify under oath that I have never driven drunk before in my life. Quite frankly, i”ve never needed to. I’ve lived within walking distance of public trans or cabs for the last 16 years of my life. It’s not worth the risk to my law license over something stupid.
“Will never forget that one. I went 1 win and 1 loss. Awesome!!! Oh and of course i was waaaasted both times…. Roflmao”
Mazal tov!
What is wrong with everyone lately?
anon (ufo),
send me a email on the story i want to hear it!
i would love to entertain the CC masses with my many run ins with the law. but none of them would provide you with “ways to get out of it” most my stories end up with a police azz whipping anyways.
thank you so much anonny
On a side note , what the heck are they thinking asking 800k for this place? wouldn’t 100-200k more get a SFH with similar square footage in this neighborhood?
“wouldn’t 100-200k more get a SFH with similar square footage in this neighborhood?”
Probably.
Or just $1MM more and you get a 6.5k sq ft place + 3br coach house.
Oh and speaking CC in a social context: I was outed by a friend at dinner the other night. The friend is a lurker. Hello Friend!
doode, wicker you said “outed”, WTF? now you have awoken Dan again
Illinois is so not worth it to drive after a few drinks because of extremely draconian DUI laws via MADD. I really didn’t believe it when I first met someone who said he got his second DUI 19 years after the first yet he lost his license for FIVE YEARS because it was his second offense within TWENTY YEARS.
Twenty years is some draconian shit when you consider other states the norm is five years. In fact the penalties in Illinois for the crime reset after five, but you lose the license for five, which doesn’t seem right to me.
Oh yeah and not all license suspensions are the same: I know friends who were pulled over for tollway suspensions and allowed to drive on, and also a friend who was pulled over on a DUI suspension and he was sent to county for five days, no bond or nothing.
DUI laws aren’t getting any more lenient I’ll tell you that. I personally know someone who drove drunk and killed two people. He was a .09 as he blew the right light and crashed into another car, killing the two passengers in his own vehicle (the driver of the other car was OK for the most part). Of course the drunk driver was OK like they always are….Driving drunk is just stupid.
Know your enemy, HD, know your enemy.
“I’d call a 1-800 number and always within 15 min…..”
Dial-a-weed. 20 years ago that was my Exhibit A that Chicago might have everything available that NYC does, it’s just that in NYC it is located on your block or with fast delivery.
“To be honest, since I have started reading cribchatter (the only anonymous forum I read), I have lost my faith in my fellow human beings to some extent ”
You should take an existentialism class or read some books on it (although Sartre is a fraud). Humans are a blank slate–there is nothing innate in the paradigm of all humans. Typically things like empathy are a taught behavior: whether from one’s religion or the secular pseudo-religion of ‘humanism’ which is rammed down pupil’s throats in our post-secondary educational institutions.
Your remark reminds me of Tommy Lee Jones character White in the Sunset Limited film. Not able to effectively cope with the worst of humanity he tried to kill himself. Someone too troubled by reality without an overpowering self-preservation instinct.
Its why I’m not surprised at Gaddafi and actually have some respect for the tyrant: he knows his days are numbered and he is going to die but he is vowing to take as many with him in the process. At the end of the day we are all animals and a properly functioning brain should have a strong self-preservation instinct, to the point of setting aside contrived things like ‘humanity’ in order to survive.
Then how do you account for the well-documented exhibition of empathy by non-human primates?
“Then how do you account for the well-documented exhibition of empathy by non-human primates?”
Wasn’t aware of those studies. Have heard of the studies on them possessing a sense of justice, however. It could be what you are interpreting as empathy are mere observations of survival instincts.
Could also be that we aren’t fundamentally like them: homo sapiens are considerably more adaptable than all other primate species. We can be violent, peaceful, have a very robust digestive system vs them, etc. The reasons we’re here and not neanderthals.
Bob, I have read Sartre and Camus and in the original language so thank you for the recommendation. As for your comment about Gaddafi, anyone who has admiration for a psychopath like him instead of empathy for the people he is massacring does not even merit the name human!
As for killing oneself, I love life more dearly than you can imagine and don’t believe in any of the after life BS so there is no way I would ever do that.
It is often the loveless self absorbed deranged folks with too much sense of entitlement who commit suicide as they blame everybody and everything for their failures rather than accepting they ain’t that special and just dealing with it.
since i disclosed more today than ever before let me share one other possibly comforting tidbit of info. See one of my closest friends from school was the principal advisor to tom ridge at homeland security and is now the director of homeland security policy institue. I mentioned even earlier today about how i lived in DC and did gov’t ‘volunteer’ work one side thing i did there was work on detection algorithms since math is pretty much my thing if anone noticed 2 things make me stop acting retarted financial markets and mathematical questions such as my old reverse engineering of differentials of spreads between i/o and regular loans. Floyd here does have 1 very serious talent!!! Basically i can say with 100 percent certainty that dan has clicked off enough red flag words on this site alone, and safe bet much worse on many others that he is being watched and tracked by both NSA and Homeland Security. The algorithm also crosses who he talks to vs their scores. Basically acting as a multiplier or weighting in order to connect groups of the most severe offenders .More he says higher his watch score. Unfortunately when we use those words back we start getting scored. Basically it is not good to talk to dan and particularly bad if you use the word dan in the same paragraph as a flag word. I’m sure his life is sorry enough but it’s funny to watch him take a shovel and keep digging. I’m sure everone reading this knows stuff like this probably exists so nothing confidential. I am just assuring u first hand that it does and your return for commenting back to him too much is nothing good.
What a damn dark conversation for a cold February friday. I suggest everyone crack open a cold one (or fire up a hot one) and relax. Don’t take yourselves so seriously.
We are all humans, and therefore literally and figuratively full of shit.
“As for your comment about Gaddafi, anyone who has admiration for a psychopath like him instead of empathy for the people he is massacring does not even merit the name human!”
He has given them fair warning. What are his other options from a self-preservation standpoint? He really doesn’t have any–fleeing Libya wasn’t really an option for him from the get go even before the slaughter started as he was never allied with the US and had done some things in the past that would likely wind him up on the gallows at the Hague (or at least imprisoned for life). After seeing Mubarak’s assets be frozen right after stepping down it’s not like he’d be wealthy if he had a place to flee and likely couldn’t even get there. I understand exactly why he is doing this and if I were in the same situation I would do likewise–just because its your end doesn’t mean you have to go quietly.
I agree with you 110% on the folks who commit suicide who aren’t in intense pain–extremely selfish.
Hey back to dui…the charges are different for alcohol vs pot,codene, coke, etc..right? Are the sentences similar?despite the possession charge.
also if it leads credence to what i say, think what i told ch why i left thhe country, i didnt like waht i saw and i didnt like what i was becoming a part of… Be careful, u all live in chicago and it’s a very sensitive area in racism detection for a very obvious reason.
“the charges are different for alcohol vs pot,codene, coke, etc..right?”
My impression was that DUI encompasses all intoxicants and a quick google confirmed:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=062500050K11-501
“despite the possession charge.”
You’re assuming that one is driving with the substance both in your system and some more in the car? If the possession is a small misdemeanor amount, I’d expect it to be used as plea bargain leverage more than anything.
wait so they can pis test u on the spot?
Thanks for the info gringozecarioca. It is nice to see you did not condone it.
another thing is u might think they are viewpoints but unless he is your alter ego who the hell knows what else he is up to. Google search his comments on ashkenaz and other shit..how does he know so much.answer probably is this is all shit off skinhead sites. The internet is a gov’t dream. When in the history of the world did gov’t ever have access to an entire populaces thoughts willingly given to it. People don’t even realize.
“who the hell knows what else he is up to”
Don’t know, don’t really want to know & don’t really care.
Consider this as food for thought: even prominent extreme right wing rabble rouser Hal Turner was a government informant. I’d say its a near certainty that not only are government (& ADL & SPLC) agents all over SF and other prominent sites, they’re probably a few actively posting with a highly regarded reputation.
I wouldn’t be too worried about him though, its pretty easy to learn about Judaism’s ethnic divisions online:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
“The internet is a gov’t dream. When in the history of the world did gov’t ever have access to an entire populaces thoughts willingly given to it. People don’t even realize.”
I think it depends on the government and their level of technical proficiency. Not so good for not so technically adept governments (Tunisia, Egypt, Libya). Very, very good for technically adept governments (Iran, Israel, USofA).
There was a reason Iran was able to very quickly and expeditiously deal with their protests in 2009: they knew who was doing what (via DPI) and organizing what and could nip dissent in the bud. I’d have to believe our government and Israel has the same technology. Why interrupt communications when you can instead monitor them and respond?
It is more complicated than that Mubarak while a dictator is not a psychopath. Egypt has a pretty much independent army. They cannot survive without US aid.
Iran on the other hand is run by crazies with the strongest ideological base (religion). They did a revolution 30 years ago so they know if Shah of Iran had crushed them, they would not have succeeded so quickly so they have effectively started a État de siège (if you read Camus, this might ring a bell) to crush the opposition. More importantly, they have oil so they can keep doing
what they like and survive for a long time.
Also Iran has way fewer internet users than Egypt so your assessment is wrong there too.
“There was a reason Iran was able to very quickly and expeditiously deal with their protests in 2009: they knew who was doing what (via DPI) and organizing what and could nip dissent in the bud. I’d have to believe our government and Israel has the same technology. Why interrupt communications when you can instead monitor them and respond?”
And let’s not forget the NSA’s call database:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_call_database
They know who is calling and communicating with who. Including every call every person on this website has made since the database went live.
“Also Iran has way fewer internet users than Egypt so your assessment is wrong there too.”
I was relying on WSJ articles at the time. Just googled and tried to find it but found this rebuttal intead:
http://www.officialares.com/news/Wall-Street-Journal-Iran-and-ISP-surveillance/
Maybe they weren’t using DPI but they were very proactive in using technology to suppress dissent. WSJ should check their stories more thoroughly before publication if this is indeed the case. They were all over social networks however.
Here is the original article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124562668777335653.html
You are right. WSJ’s politic section is a laughing stock IMHO.
“They were all over social networks however.”
You guys need to get off here and go enjoy friday. i for one am already a bit buzzed…I’m going to Rebar tonight and then out drinking with dan on butterfield. =)
have a great weekend all.
Have fun Riz. I unfortunately am stuck reviewing some BS…sigh
I have guests for dinner tomorrow so it means all work and no fun tonight : (
Never listen to legal tips from anonymous posters on a real estate site. Nonetheless, here are some legal tips from an anonymous poster on a real estate website. All of this is stuff a 1L would know (but not necessarily the average drunk guy).
(1) The police are required to give you the Miranda warning before conducting a “custodial interrogation.” The word interrogation = questioning, or statements designed to elicit incriminating responses. The word custody is a little trickier. A group of guys just standing on the street are not in custody. A person pulled over for a traffic stop is not in custody. A person who comes in voluntarily to a police station is not in custody.
A person in bracelets is definitely in custody. A person in the back of a locked squad car is in custody.
The tough cases are the one where a person is not physically restrained, but there are other factors where a reasonable person would believe that he is under the control of the police.
(2) If you are in custody, and the police do not give you a Miranda warning, and then the police start interrogating you, then all of your answers can be suppressed. Exclusionary rule 101.
Thus, if a police officer arrests you, doesn’t Mirandize you, and on the way to station asks you questions like “How much have did you drink tonight?”, your answers can be suppressed. If he does not ask any questions, but you just blurt out, “I’m really sorry, I drank five beers,” that evidence stays in.
(3) Your Fifth Amendment right to an attorney attaches exactly where you are entitled to the Miranda warning, at a custodial interrogation. Does not matter where that interrogation takes place. It does not attach only at a formal interview. Your Sixth Amendment right to the assistance of counsel attaches when you get charged or have formal proceedings instituted against you.
(4) Sometimes police try to be sneaky and won’t Mirandize you when they first arrest you, ask you a bunch of questions, and once you let the cat out of the bag, they Mirandize you, and then ask the same questions over again. You, being a lay person who has already let the cat out of the bag, will probably answer the same way you did the first time. The first set of answers = excluded, but the second set of answers = admissible. Total BS, right? I think Justice Brennan was one of the dissents on this one. It’s been a while since I’ve been in school, so maybe not.
(5) The police are not your friends when you are the subject of their investigation. If they are talking to you, it is because they are trying to get information from you to incriminate you. The police will try to get you to write a statement, say that it won’t be a big deal, you won’t even have to post bail and they will let you go. Hell nah.
(6) If you get arrested, no matter what, say “I want to speak to an attorney,” and then do not say anything else. Say this whether they Mirandize you or not. Under the law, all questions must stop. If the police ask questions after the request, all of the conversation will be inadmissible.
Alright, have a good night, from a longtime lurker, first time poster.
Just checked in and looks like this thread lost all relevance to real estate about 8 hours ago…
miumiu is probably some ugly asian chick whose only sense of companionship is this blog and clio. Sorry Clio.
@ss, well there is no way of telling what I look like over the web is there? While we have some basis for judging each other’s intellect, physical attributes are “undecidable” over this medium.
As for Clio, you are obsessed with him. Also darling, if you are trying to provoke me and get some info, I am smarter than that and “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn” what you think : )
Finally, there is nothing wrong with being ugly. One does not choose how one looks. What is sad is having an ugly personality.
Just checked in and looks like Crib Chatter lost all relevance to real estate about a week ago.
“Just checked in and looks like this thread lost all relevance to real estate about 8 hours ago…”
Wow, when you are tagged you really get defensive. It’s laughable that a former so-called “american” who left our nation, to pursue money and opportunity in a BRIC country then decides to lecture Americans!! Let’s just say that Americans like me — are on to you, not vice versa.
Your comments below are a joke, because it’s ME that’s an American with nothing to fear, it’s you and your ilk that are false, I’ve said that from the beginning, thank you for proving to others what YOU and I already know.
“Basically i can say with 100 percent certainty that dan has clicked off enough red flag words on this site alone, and safe bet much worse on many others that he is being watched and tracked by both NSA and Homeland Security. The algorithm also crosses who he talks to vs their scores.
Basically acting as a multiplier or weighting in order to connect groups of the most severe offenders .More he says higher his watch score. Unfortunately when we use those words back we start getting scored. Basically it is not good to talk to dan and particularly bad if you use the word dan in the same paragraph as a flag word. I’m sure his life is sorry enough but it’s funny to watch him take a shovel and keep digging. I’m sure everone reading this knows stuff like this probably exists so nothing confidential. I am just assuring u first hand that it does and your return for commenting back to him too much is nothing good.”
Getting back to the original topic:
“Sleeping rooms in the basement” is a time-honored Chicago tradition, as anyone who’s seen bungalows and raised ranches in the “non-green-zone” nabes will attest. Families in those houses tend to keep the young kids on the same sleeping level as the ‘rents, but send the teenaagers downstairs so they can enjoy their stereos, computers and electric guitars by themselves while the rest of the family can enjoy (relative) peace and quiet.
So there are no Radon problems in Chicago? I was under the impression that illinois in general has Radon problems. So I am not sure how I feel about sending my kids to the basement. Of course you can pump the radon out but it makes a constant annoying noise.
“what the heck are they thinking asking 800k for this place? wouldn’t 100-200k more get a SFH with similar square footage in this neighborhood?”
There’s a big difference between $750k or $800k and $1 million for most buyers. So you can’t really compare.
For $800k it would be difficult to get 2800 square feet in this area of Lincoln Park (but not impossible.) It probably wouldn’t be “new” and, therefore, as updated as these condos. Buyers want new and will choose it over an old house that needs work.
Also- not everyone wants to cut the lawn, deal with the roof or the windows or shoveling the sidewalks. They want to move into a condo and have everything done already for them.
“What is wrong with everyone lately?”
I’ve been asking the same thing.
5th coldest winter in Chicago history.
6th snowiest winter in Chicago history.
Perhaps????
Or…double dip in housing is making people REALLY cranky.
“Or…double dip in housing is making people REALLY cranky.”
This doesn’t make sense, Sabrina. The vast majority of people on this site are renters, people looking to buy, and many many negative, pessimistic people who seem to take extreme pleasure when any bad news regarding housing is released and who seem to be extremely hopeful that the housing market will continue to crash and burn – so no – the “double dip” should have the opposite effect. The fact that the site has degenerated into personal/racial attacks is sad – I am going to have to wean myself off…..
Clio- it makes sense to me because prices in Chicago for the most part, are not reflecting the double dip. Thousands of properties sit there priced above 2002 prices wishing and hoping for a sale. Properties have been on the market for 2 or 3 years in some cases without the appropriate price reductions because the sellers can’t (or won’t) lower the price.
Personally- I think it makes people frustrated (especially those renters waiting for the price they want to pay.) Take HD. He is still waiting for prices to go where they WILL go- only it’s going to take much longer than everyone anticipated to get there. So every time there is an overpriced property on Crib Chatter- or even just coming through the new listings (where someone is listing for MORE than they paid in, say, 2006 or 2007) it gets frustrating to people.
Similar arguments have broken out on other real estate websites in other cities (personal attacks etc.) so I think it has something to do now with the pace of the declines not being fast enough and general frustration that it’s going to take several more years for all of this to wash through the system.
There’s something in the air with housing. Like I said- if I hadn’t seen similar personal attacks on other housing websites in other cities I would think it was just us here in Chicago. It makes me feel marginally better to know it’s happening around the country (but why – is the question.)
But I WILL and continue to delete comments that are so off topic that they aren’t relevant. (although I kept the dui stuff in there because it’s amusing.)
“Similar arguments have broken out on other real estate websites in other cities (personal attacks etc.) so I think it has something to do now with the pace of the declines not being fast enough and general frustration that it’s going to take several more years for all of this to wash through the system.”
I disagree. I think it is a sign the bottom is in.
Deflation is not always a bad thing clio, even though we’ve been trained to think so. If housing prices fall, everyone should cheer because it means a major cost of living has declined. People should also ” take extreme pleasure when any bad news regarding” gasoline prices get published.
Bri…it’s not just real estate sites. You could probably even go to foodtv.com and see someone fighting over the price of sugar. People are frustrated in general. The economy is in the crapper and what i see is the worst still coming. No pleasure in seeing it, just what is, is.
“I think it is a sign the bottom is in.”
How is the bottom in when nothing is selling?
When nothing sells- it puts pressure on prices. Those that need to sell must lower. Hence, prices continue to fall.
Check out Portage Park and some of the Northwest Side neighborhoods. It’s a complete disaster zone. Houses that previously sold for $350,000 now listed for $125,000 and still not selling. The price correction is finally hitting hard there. But in some GZ neighborhoods, sellers are holding on and on and on. They will lower when they need to sell but it will be dragged out for years.
Ge- you could be right about there just being general frustration (and that’s what we’re seeing in the protests around the world.) Austerity combined with food inflation is a drag, isn’t it?
i think part of the reason it is so dramatic on real estate sites is because peoples homes are generally their largest asset as well. And like you said the other side feels short and unable to get in. I personally don’t think too many shorts LIKE bad news per se but use it as evidence as to why real estate needs to come off more.
I think much of the anger is also people don’t like watching one side cheerlead against their position. When i was in school i used to go down to Atlantic City alot and I used to find it intriguing how angry people would get when i bet don’t pass on the crap table. Random roll of the dice and my bet shouldnt even be something someone should care about at all but regardless people would lose their shit! As if i were betting against them personally.
uh food inflation.. I’m almost afraid to comment on that as i am at my farm. My goal was not to win during a recession because of crappy fed management, but in efficiencies and global growth.
But yes it is terrible. Again i just think it’s a huge global mean reversion going on, combined with horrible domestic economic policy, when i get back home later today i’ll post a great video that kinda shows u the mean reversion.
Can someone define lately pleasr? Since I have been reading this website, certain posters continuously have waged personal attacks on others and made intolerant remarks (to put it mildly). So 2 years ago every one played nice?
If in fact that is the case, then there is something very interesting in terms of psychological effects of housing market crash is going on.
“What is wrong with everyone lately?”
In the last 6 months or so personal attacks have increased enormously on this (and other) housing websites.
Of course there has always been a give and take – back and forth- especially between the bears and the bulls. But it was always about housing- not about race, politics, who is uglier, who is richer etc.
I have never before had to delete this many comments (especially since the Christmas Eve ranting.)
4-6 weeks.
Miumiu – Once again, getting back to topic:
Radon is mainly a suburban, not city, problem. Until VERY recently you didn’t even have a “radon disclosure addendum” as part of a Chicago real estate sales contract. The CAR requires it now to avoid a favoritism/discrimination charge, I guess.
@ ChiTownGal, thanks for the information. It is scary, we tested our basement and had high Radon values. We are now pumping it out but I almost don’t use our basement any more. I know it is irrational but I just cannot help it.
Radon can potentially be anywhere — city or suburb. You don’t even need to have a basement to have radon problems. The only way to really know is to do one of the home tests. They are like $18 – $25, and are available many places online and in stores. You set it up to collect data for 90 days and then mail it in.
Don’t count on your location to protect you from radon gas.
@ Peter, you must have missed the Christmas time Saint Barthelemy massacre if you think it has only been in the recent 4-6 weeks : )
danny, at higher floors (I think over 4 floors) Radon is no problem though, right? We have a high rise condo which I assume is safe.
“There’s a big difference between $750k or $800k and $1 million for most buyers. So you can’t really compare.
For $800k it would be difficult to get 2800 square feet in this area of Lincoln Park (but not impossible.) It probably wouldn’t be “new” and, therefore, as updated as these condos. Buyers want new and will choose it over an old house that needs work.
Also- not everyone wants to cut the lawn, deal with the roof or the windows or shoveling the sidewalks. They want to move into a condo and have everything done already for them.”
I understand your point. It’s just that if it was me personally, i’d rather scrimp and save for a few more years to come up with the extra 150-200k and drop 1 mil to own a SFH. cutting the lawn, and dealing with the roof, etc is definitely a hassle..but at the end of the day you own the home and the property it sits on – to me that means a lot more than having to share that with a group of other people / deal with a condo association, etc.
@miumiu
Radon is only a problem if the gas accumulates in the house. As long as you have sufficient air exchange, your exposure will be limited. The fact that you discovered the problem and are mitigating it, puts you MILES ahead of most homeowners in the U.S.
Homeowners should also be cognizant of carbon monoxide (CO) from incomplete combustion in furnaces and hot water heaters. As long as there is a continuous draft exhausting out the flue, indoor CO levels should be alright. But if there is some reason for a backdraft somewhere else (i.e. a chef’s kitchen with an industrial sized exhaust hood), then CO could be sucked backwards into the living space.
A good home energy audit will check for CO levels (in ppm) in all rooms of the house under worst case conditions (i.e. furnace going full blast, hot water running in the sink, and oven and burners turned on). A good audit will also sniff for natural gas leaks and refrigerant leaks.
Thanks danny, I will definitely follow up on the energy audit thing. The water quality in Illinois is terrible too, we order our drinking water from Michigan and they deliver it in glass bottles as the plastic ones have their own cancer risks.
Many people mistakenly believe that the goal of a home energy audit is to completely seal a living space. But it is really about finding that sweet spot where there is sufficient air exchange for health and comfort, while limiting the exchange of heat and moisture.
It really makes sense to measure the actual carbon monoxide levels in your house and not rely on the CO detector (mounted next to your smoke detector). The CO detector is generally set to alarm at about 400 ppm — which means “get the hell out of the house!” But if your house has CO levels greater than 100 ppm, you could be subject to long term health effects (dizziness, nausea, flu symptoms, headaches, etc.). Even levels ranging from 35 to 100 ppm can be damaging.
So you should rely on more than the CO detector in your house, and get an actual reading in ppm.
I drink Lake Michigan water and swim in it daily most of the summer. You just have to measure your own tolerance for risk. It’s not good to worry about every damn thing, but it is a good idea to be aware of common hazards.
[BTW… I perform energy audits for a living — mostly focused on manufacturing and industry. I’m not really comfortable pimping my services on Sabrina’s site.]
Well what you do is very relevant to housing so I don’t see what is wrong with it and it is not like you go out of your way to do it.
“I’m not really comfortable pimping my services on Sabrina’s site.”
“In the last 6 months or so personal attacks have increased enormously on this (and other) housing websites.”
6 months ago, dough4dumps and QE gave false hope to the bulls as intended. No coincidence that brought new bulls to this site (and others) to spout off. Now that they are being proven as fools again, they resort to even more personal attacks. No different than the prior crop of bullls here, really. A clear indication that another leg down is here.
I beg to differ G, just your assessment shows how biased you are. As soon as someone disagrees with your doom and gloom scenario you make fun of people and start ganging up on them. I am neither an investor nor a real estate savvy person just an ordinary person who wants to buy a 2/2 (yes the horrible 2/2) and still you have been rude and provocative towards me and lumped me with Clio and Andrew T and claim we have agenda and so on. I never accused you or HD of any thing. In all honesty, I often don’t respond to your comments as you really go out of your way to try and provoke people.
G. say you’re sorry!
Ok, nice to be off the 3″ screen and back to a keyboard and some screens.
Some might have seen this video but this is a great illustration of what I have been talking about and every time I try to explain people bring up that stupid race to the bottom book. Exactly the opposite. Well at least for the other 5.7 Billion we share the planet with.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
Your lack of savvy is showing along with your biases. I lumped you with them once due to the similarity of your arrogance at that time and never suggested any common agenda. I am sorry about that if you truly aren’t as snobby as you come across here. I will chalk it up instead to your apparent unfamiliarity with cultural norms in the US that makes you appear to be arrogant. I have never suggested a gloom and doom scenario here. Why lie about me?
As far as me being provocative, that is a cultural strength
As far as me being provocative, that is a cultural strength that is often not understood by people reared on “know your place.”
@ G, last fall, Muti had an open air concert at Millennium Park, my in-laws and husband went there and truly enjoyed it. My friend who is a concert pianist told us and a group of friends that he could never tolerate the outdoor concert due to the horrendous acoustic. A friend was offended and thought the pianist is a snob. I was of the opinion that it is more lack of our sensitivity and sophistication that makes the out door concert enjoyable to us and not to him. So snobbery is a two sided sword. Not clear if it cuts the so called snob or show cases the ignorance of the insecure.
I don’t believe I am a snob. I often am the first to point out I am ignorant about many topics. Even if I were a snob as you alleged, I’d rather be a well meaning snob that a person who resorts to mean comments and provocative behavior just because he lacks the power to reason.
Miumiu
Keep doing what you’re doing and try to avoid the mean boys. You strike me as a sincere person who most likely posts to cc in the same way you would e-mail a friend. You have to understand that some posters user cc to express their aggression because it is anonymous.
gringozecarioca:
I watched the video. Interesting. it’s not a zero sum game. Thank you for sharing this.
Thank you dahliachi. You are very nice.
Last week, on another thread (? which one) “Brad” related his personal story about how he was living in a foreclosed property and not paying rent (but paying assessments, etc). Most people were very congratulatory towards him and were happy that he was able to save the rent money – HOWEVER – very interestingly, there is an article in the Tribune today (Real estate section – page 5) that states that the new owner of a foreclosed property CAN COLLECT ALL PAST RENT THAT WAS DUE to the previous owner. If this is true, then Brad had better check with his attorney or get out of there without leaving a forwarding address ASAP. That would suck if , in 2 years, he gets stuck with a bill of 30k and is taken to court.
There are certain issues that seem to be missing in that explanation in the tribune. The article assumes there is a binding lease still in place- which then transfers from the bank to the new owner.
Does Illinois have a pay and quit notice requirement? If so- was one served in this case?
Is there even a lease? If Brad’s lease has expired- there is no legal contract with the bank. So what is the new owner going to enforce? Even if it is month to month- the new owner would only be able to enforce a month to month- right?
Also- in the example- the tenants were STILL in the property. I would assume Brad, and whomever else is doing this, would be long gone before the bank sells the property to a new owner. So there are no tenants and no lease. So what is enforced again?
What’s the law in Illinois HD?
Sorry Clio- sounds like this is a different kind of example and not one most people on this site are finding themselves in unless they actually continue to live in the property after someone else buys it from the bank. And why would they do that?
Issue: Can the bank or a subsequent purchaser collect all past due rent from Brad?
Rule:
“an order of possession may not be entered or enforced against “any person who is only generically described as an unknown owner or nonrecord claimant or by another generic designation in the complaint.” 735 ILCS 5/15-1508(g). “[W]here the tenant is current on his or her rent, any order of possession must allow the tenant to retain possession of the property covered in his or her rental agreement (i) for 120 days following the notice of the hearing on the supplemental petition that has been properly served upon the tenant, or (ii) through the duration of his or her lease, whichever is shorter.” 735 ILCS 5/15-1701(h)(4) (effective date 1/1/2008).”
http://www.illinoislegaladvocate.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.dsp_Content&contentID=6047
Application: Brad is not current on his rent so an order of possession can be entered against Brad without allowing him possession an additional 120 days or through the duration of his lease, which ever is shorter.
The bank or subsequent purchaser does not have privity (Privity of contract is the relationship that exists between two or more parties to an agreement) with the tenant so they can sue for possession only, not for past due rent.
Conclusion: Brad is safe. Brad cannot be sued for past-due rent by the foreclosing bank or the new purchaser. He can be sued for possession only.
IN the trib article that clio references: http://www.chicagotribune.com/classified/realestate/apartments/ct-mre-0227-renting-20110225,0,3176633.column
the tenant (allegedly) has a residential lease with the foreclosing bank (very rare indeed) and the purchaser bought the property subject to lease and now the purchaser is trying to enforce the bank’s contract. This is a very rare situation because foreclosing banks almost never make leases with tenants.
This is different from Brad’s situation. Brad has a lease with the owner and Brad’s rights to possession of the property (including his month-to-month tenancy) will terminate in the foreclosure. The bank or any subsequent purchaser cannot collect for past due rent from Brad. The landlord’s lease rights do not follow to the bank or a purchaser in a foreclosure, absent the law I cited above, which requires Brad to be current on his rent AND be subject to an lease (which is not expired).
Haha that journalist just got wtfpwned by a real lawyer.
“That would suck if , in 2 years, he gets stuck with a bill of 30k and is taken to court.”
Clio: hate to tell you but you wouldn’t be jailed for a non-payment of a judgment like this.
Also what judge is going to rule for it? The bank has been sitting idly by and not trying to evict the non-paying tenant. In other words IT’S THE BANK’S FAULT dude was living for free because the bank due to their sheer incompetence did not exercise their legal rights in a timely manner.
It’s like if I punch you and you don’t show up to court guess what happens? I don’t get in any trouble for it.
“Conclusion: Brad is safe. Brad cannot be sued for past-due rent by the foreclosing bank or the new purchaser. He can be sued for possession only.”
Thanks HD!
It did occur to me that what Brad might want to do is to both document what he’s paying in assessments, either by cancelled checks or receipts from the association, AND put the balance of what would have been for “rent” into a psuedo “escrow” account. This way, it would show he was not shirking his responsibility, but that he simply had no one to send the rents to, since the bank refused to accept them. Then, if no one were legally entitled to those rents, he’d have a nice amount of savings.
I agree logansquarean – even if the law states that the new owners cannot sue for past rent not paid by a previous tenant, the bank CERTAINLY CAN (as the bank actually took over the property and all the contracts/agreements that went with the property). It doesn’t matter if they accept the rent or not right now – they can easily sue in the future (at the time of sale to a new owner) for past rent. In reality, I don’t think they will – but much crazier things have happened (eg banks agreeing to a short sale price but then, right before closing demanding 10-50k extra from the sellers). I would be very careful if I was brad – you never know what these banks are going to do.
“The bank or subsequent purchaser does not have privity (Privity of contract is the relationship that exists between two or more parties to an agreement) with the tenant so they can sue for possession only, not for past due rent.”
The tribune says the exact opposite:
“When the bank sold the property to you, you purchased not only the physical property, but the contractual rights and responsibilities of the former owner (the bank). Those contractual rights and responsibilities were contained in the lease or, if the lease had run out, in the month-to-month rental agreement (with the same lease terms) that legally kicks in when tenants stay on with permission after the end of a lease.”
Clio, I don’t tell you how to read charts so don’t tell me how to practice law.
Reread the question:
“Q. We purchased a foreclosure property. The tenants have not paid rent for the past 18 months while the bank was the owner. The tenants claim that because the rent was owed to the bank, only the bank is entitled to ask for it (of course, the bank isn’t interested). Can we collect the rent or evict the tenants if they refuse to pay us?”
As I’ve shown above, the tenant’s leasehold is terminated in the foreclosure unless he can show he’s current on rent AND there is a current lease.
In the question above, it is a bit vague, but the tenant claims that rent was owed to the bank, and the only way rent can be owed to the bank is if the lease was entered into by the bank. So ASSUMING that the bank entered into a lease AFTER the foreclosure, the bank sells the property subject the leasehold of the tenant.
However, more plausibly, this is probably a very similar situation to Brad. If that were the case, then the tenant is WRONG he does not owe the bank money and the new owner is also wrong – he cannot collect rent.
Funny how the bank was not interested in collecting rent – because they are not legally entitled to it.
The tenant in the tribune’s example can stay there up until the stay date of an order of possession, but, does not have to pay the new landlord rent. NO privity, they never had a contract.
HD – I’m not telling you how to practice law – wtf is your problem? I didn’t even address you or make any judgements, etc. about your law practice – and what the fuck does “reading charts” mean?
“The tenant in the tribune’s example can stay there up until the stay date of an order of possession, but, does not have to pay the new landlord rent. NO privity, they never had a contract.”
Uhhh – once again, the tribune article says the EXACT opposite:
“When the bank sold the property to you, you purchased not only the physical property, but the contractual rights and responsibilities of the former owner (the bank). Those contractual rights and responsibilities were contained in the lease or, if the lease had run out, in the month-to-month rental agreement (with the same lease terms) that legally kicks in when tenants stay on with permission after the end of a lease.”
Clio , reading charts = patient charts, I think.
Clio – use legal advice from the Tribune to your own risk.
“Clio – use legal advice from the Tribune to your own risk.”
I agree – but that was my underlying indirect point – you can’t believe everything you read – so everyone should remember that before you believe all of the negative headlines about real estate!!!
WSJ suggests this year we will hit the bottom, but the article does not provide very strong evidence IMHO:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703796504576168822497423738.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
miumiu,
The wsj dude you linked to seems pretty clueless, imo. The comments section on the article provided some intelligent analysis, almost all of which disagreed with the columnists conclusions.
I agree Emma
lots of good comments on this one.
maybe a northwest side neighborhood place this week sabrina?
miumiu on February 25th, 2011 at 11:15 am
What do you recommend buying? I was thinking of just getting the Maclaren as it is light weight. My friends keep telling me jogging strollers are useless as they are heavy and any ways I cannot see my self running with a stroller.”
The stroller stable for my kids has been pared down over the years; basic recommendations:
Don’t bother with a stroller for your newborn; get the Snap-n-go for the infant seat(see: Maclaren Traveler). You could do an infant seat attachment for your regular size stroller, but when you’re in and out of the car (for the 10+ doctor visits those first few months, for example), you’re not going to want to schlep your regular stroller with you.
Next, do yourself a HUGE favor and buy the Baby Jogger City Mini Single. It fully reclines, the sunshade almost completely covers the kid, there are parent trays and kids trays available, turns on a dime, it fits a tall child (like mine), and most importantly, it folds with one hand so it’s super easy to use with public transportation (hold kid in one arm and fold stroller/carry with the other). Yes, the tires are hard rubber and not air-filled, so it won’t handle snow/mud like a BOB or Bug, but really? I’m not pushing my kid in a stroller on cold snowy days. We’re bundled up at home 😉
Personally, I wasn’t a fan of my Quinny Zapp, my Mac Triumph, Baby Planet Solo Sport, or Valco Runabout. I know people really like those strollers – they just didn’t work for us. Thank goodness for Craigslist.
As for this listing, it seems grossly overpriced to me as well. Holy stating the obvious, I know.
I agree with Sabrina. I think the market has a larger than usual gap between the willingness of buyers to pay and sellers to sell. The gap is soooo wide that frustration abounds. Certainly, some buyers and some sellers leave the market entirely, never closing a transaction. Those who are still in the market grow increasingly frustrated because (I think) they are willing to buy/sell at a certain price–but the market won’t bear that price.
So this chess game or stand off continues. Maybe where folks capitulate is where the market truly stands. Yet to put some objectivity on where value or sales price is or should be is tough. Precision escapes most of us.
I’m a bear though. $800k for this place, rationalized on the basis of square footage and location, probably reduces your pool of buyers. As one poster said, why not rent for a couple years and increase your down payment for the SFH? If you can’t do that, maybe you look at other areas. But $800K for what is essential a 2br/2b with a lower level seems like a ton of dough. I’d think you’d need to know that you wanted to stay there for 10 years, minimum.
MrsB,
Miss ya girlie where have ya been?
i will say i was really disapointed with the baby planet lemur frog stroller, hard to push one handed. You didnt like the zapp? i swear by it for air travel. I like the Mac Volo and Quest, would skip the triumph.
also i would like to add the the Phil and teds “double” is pure child abuse.
i really cant believe a parent would put the second child in the FRICKEN STORAGE BASKET AREA!!!!
I’ve been good…BUSY! Adding kids will do that to a gal. How have you been? Good, I hope 🙂
AGREED re: the P&T double. There are a few toddlers at my child’s school that show up every day in that thing. The bottom kid always looks crazy terrified.
The Zapp looked cool, and the fold was awesome, but my child is SUPER tall (he was two at the time) and just never fit right. Plus, I’m also fairly tall, so it was kind of on the short side for me to push. The no-recline thing bugged me too.
we have one of those p&ts. oddly enough the 3yr old likes riding in back bc it’s easy to get in and out of. maybe gives a sense of independence, who knows. it cost more than my bicycles combined so I’m not saying it’s my favorite.
Thank you Groove and Mrs B. Man you guys are better parents than us for sure. I was planning to have only one stroller total. I wanted something light as we travel a lot (at least 3-4 times a year across the oceans). I don’t plan to take the kid out for running as I will have a nanny and my husband and I will alternate taking care of the little brat : ) Groove, why not the triumph? I thought it is good middle ground, right? Mrs B, excellent point about Dr. visits. I was not even thinking about that : ) I think I will be a horrible mom…sigh…
“I’ve been good…BUSY! Adding kids will do that to a gal. How have you been? Good, I hope”
i was busy in overdrive house hunting in the 4th qtr 2010, i dont remember it being that stressful the first time around.
the zapp was ok for groove JR he has long legs and normal torso and is skinny so it works for us. the recline, well i am just a bad parent and just let his head dangle and bobble about 🙂
we went to santa monica area last year with friends and they skipped flying with a stroller and just bought one online had it shipped to the place we were staying (her aunt house) and then had here Aunt craigslist/ebay when we left.
“Groove, why not the triumph? I thought it is good middle ground, right?”
some people believe that but for me it was a volo with a recline and the extra weight defeated its purpose *for us. Check all three side by side and you may even say the the quest might be the one and only stroller needed. even for travel. for non travel a snap and go for the the baby bucket and the city mini is all one needs
also remember my stroller opinion is based on being car dependent so i can slog around any beast in a trunk
“I think I will be a horrible mom…sigh”
you wont, you think the groove has any clue what he is doing? if our kids get a college degree and dont need regular psych visits i will call it a win.
Agreed re: the triumph.
For an “umbrella” type stroller, it wasn’t *that* light, and the fold wasn’t that easy.
“I think I will be a horrible mom…sigh”
“you wont, you think the groove has any clue what he is doing? if our kids get a college degree and dont need regular psych visits i will call it a win.”
CO-SIGN.
Well said.
I know a lot about strollers (and baby food, and BPA, and vaccines, etc.)…NOW…but I started out knowing next to nothing. You learn as you go.
miumiu,
After spending 3 hours looking at strollers on weekend I’m pretty sure Bugaboo Cameleon is still the best stroller on the market. We used it for baby#1 and I’m getting one again for #2. It’s expensive, but has high resale value and customer service it great. We also bought Maclaren Quest then kid turned 2 and used it for travel and long walks.
Thanks guys, you finally convinced me to have my tubes tied
“BPA, and vaccines…”
MrsB, I’ll bite, because these are great bellweathers: What are your views on BPA and vaccines?
“MrsB, I’ll bite, because these are great bellweathers: What are your views on BPA and vaccines?”
BPA for breakfast, everyday, and vaccines are for suckers–why should i pay to keep your kids healthy?
[it’s a joke]
Did you know that thermal printers–like most register receipts–rely on BPA?
“Thanks guys, you finally convinced me to have my tubes tied”
society thanks you!!!
ps sorry it was just right there for the typing 🙂
“Bugaboo Cameleon is still the best stroller on the market”
not if you have a car,
you have to take off the seat to fold it, and that right there took it out of the running for us, we were going to get the uppa baby but two diferent annoying yuppies at land of nod in LP both bought one so that took it off the list too (i know crazy reason) we ended up with the peg perego skate and loved that heavy beast.
the seat slides up and down so you can pull it up to a table raise the little squirt up and its table height! will i recommend the skate, no, its really not for everyone.
now if another BoB stroller bumps me at a festival groove may just snap one day.
seriously this year at the german kinder market some tool of a yuppie decided he would like to navigate the market on a Saturday with a BOB, they guy bumped me on three different areas if i wasnt all christmas spirity words may have been spoken
Yeah people are a bit out of control with the BOBs. There’s a reason they make smaller strollers, and a reason for bigger ones.
“some tool of a yuppie decided he would like to navigate the market on a Saturday with a BOB”
Hey–We must have been there the same day! That or there are a *bunch* of tools who think that having a bob in that small space is okay.
the correct answer for transporting a kid at a festival is, of course, “back pack”. One from these guys in particular: http://www.toughtraveler.com/
i dont know how to feel about that kid in the picture of the back pack,
“Hey–We must have been there the same day! That or there are a *bunch* of tools who think that having a bob in that small space is okay.”
classic, got a hearty chuckle out of that one.
at what point did the think they needed a BOB in downtown loop? and they had to get there by car as mass transit people would have stabbed them already for being tools.
anon – you swear by those? i value your always-painstakingly-considered-and-researched opinion
I trust their products are of a higher quality than their when-MC-Hammer-was-hot-era website…
“anon – you swear by those? i value your always-painstakingly-considered-and-researched opinion
I trust their products are of a higher quality than their when-MC-Hammer-was-hot-era website…”
Have the Stallion (yeah, the most expensive one) and it *totally* rocks. Takes a little practice–and a decent amount of arm strength–to get the loaded pack on and off by yourself, but it’s doable (even after a few festival beers), at least up to ~35 pounds on the kid. Get the rain/sun fly (which reminds me we misplaced a part and I need to order).
Haven’t attempted with my older–who’s still under the 60 lb limit, but close to tall enough for all the e-ticket rides.
But even with a squirmy kid, once you cinch the waist belt and chest strap, I barely notice anything other than the retained heat–just like a good quality backcountry pack. Both have fallen asleep in them, and have sometimes stayed asleep thru being set down for lunch and then re-uped.
lol…Sonies I am jealous of you if you go ahead with the closure…hehe
I have decided to start with a light weight simple stroller and if need be get something fancy and expensive. I was at a store a month ago and met this couple who told me they soon realized that if you travel a lot and don’t navigate your stroller on harsh terrain then high end strollers are waste of money. I am not completely convinced as many of you swear by them so I will take is as it goes. I will have something light weight that I can use almost immediately (within 3-4 month) and then will see if I should splurge. Seems though city mini has vote of confidence of many of the experts so will check it out this weekend or next.
3 times seems too many, are you sure you were not being hit on?…wink …wink
“seriously this year at the german kinder market some tool of a yuppie decided he would like to navigate the market on a Saturday with a BOB, they guy bumped me on three different areas if i wasnt all christmas spirity words may have been spoken
“
Our baby is supposedly tall too. The lady who did the sonogram said so. I think I have drank the coolaid and will get the city mini.
“Next, do yourself a HUGE favor and buy the Baby Jogger City Mini Single. It fully reclines, the sunshade almost completely covers the kid, there are parent trays and kids trays available, turns on a dime, it fits a tall child (like mine), and most importantly, it folds with one hand so it’s super easy to use with public transportation (hold kid in one arm and fold stroller/carry with the other).”
anon,
when i get a chance i am going to email you today, i am really liking that stallion. right now when little squirt is tired of walking or wants to nap when we are out i just carry him.
i am a strong guy but he is getting bigger and my guns are getting tired.
“3 times seems too many, are you sure you were not being hit on?…wink …wink”
i hope not, i would have been flattered but the dude was not a “looker” 🙂
it seems like the mac quest may be your all in one stroller that will work for you. still get the snap and go for the baby bucket (graco one is just as good as the mac and babytrend) you can thank me latter for that advice.
the reason the city mini is a high on awesome for parents is the fold the recline and the CANOPY. I learned that kids dont like the sun in thier eyes and at 1yr they HATE IT.
but the advice i got that we didnt use and SHOULD have is Get the baby bucket snap and go and use it for three months in that time you will learn what kind of stroller you ACTUALLY need and by 4-6 months you have a larger option of strollers as you wont need a full recline.
“JJJ on February 28th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
MrsB, I’ll bite, because these are great bellweathers: What are your views on BPA and vaccines?”
Eh, I did my research & more importantly, talked my pediatricians: My kids are fully vaccinated (up to what is age appropriate) & I don’t use plastic bottles/containers with BPA for my kids. As for the non-BPA products themselves (bottles, cups, etc.) it’s SUPER easy to find virtually anything non-BPA at Target; almost all packages trumpet “NO BPA” these days – Nuby, Munchkin, Dr. Brown’s, Avent, etc.
I’ve never been a big lover of carriers (slings, pouches, Beco’s, Ergo’s), but I do want to check out the backpack carriers mentioned ^^^ – probably a nice compromise for the summer festivals. We usually bring our mini (which I think is a normal/smallish size), but still, having to compete with the BOBS for sidewalk space…not fun. Plus, the mini has a nice parent tray (re: beer holder) 😉
Thanks, MrsB, I agree with you, although we still use some legacy products with BPA in them (mostly Nalgene bottles) for ourselves.
Don’t get me started on how stupid I think vaccine objectors are…
“i hope not, i would have been flattered but the dude was not a “looker””
Bald-ish guy wearing a kangol or something similar? We were there the same day!
On the tough traveler: was *clearly* the best available when we bought, but seems there are a few more options out there now, so it might be a closer call. TT is a made in usa product, if that matters to you.
And, the great thing about the pack is then you have both hands free all the time so there’s less need for the beer carrier.
“Bald-ish guy wearing a kangol or something similar? We were there the same day!”
haahahaa he had a kangol and a northface jacket! bald i dont know.
“haahahaa he had a kangol and a northface jacket! bald i dont know.”
We were there the same day. That guy was all over the place with that bob, using it like a plow.
“We were there the same day. That guy was all over the place with that bob, using it like a plow.”
I think if it wasnt for the BoB, there were many kangols and northfaces all about.
did you see him try to wedge into the german chocolate store the realize the isle were to small?
crazy because me and you probably have exchanged words there and my wife may have waved and smiled to your kid(s) and neither of realized its groove and anon (ufo)
next year, we should meet up, the hot wine and cider and christmas pickle ornament is on me.
Well, I’m in! I’ll bring my BOB, oh, wait…
“Well, I’m in! I’ll bring my BOB, oh, wait”
if you get groove drunk enough i bet i would go on a rant there and slash or deflate all the Bob tires there 🙂
Just curious – did anyone play “HI BOB” while checking out this thread? Are you still sober?
Whatever happened to “umbrella strollers” as the template for child transport, anyway?
And whatever happened to the REAL ESTATE DISCUSSION on this thread?
“the BoB, kangol and northface…”
I know that guy, his name is Josh and he lives in Highland Park. If he was sans-the-kangol he could be my other friend Chip from Lake Forest.
“And whatever happened to the REAL ESTATE DISCUSSION on this thread?”
the Al Gore address is CRIBchatter.com am i missing something?