Trying to Sell Again in 2009: 749 W. Wellington in Lakeview
We’ve chattered about this 2-bedroom vintage unit at 749 W. Wellington in Lakeview several times before.
See our November 2008 chatter and pictures here.
It has been listed on and off for well over a year and has now been reduced $21,000.
It does not have central air or an in-unit washer/dryer. But it does have a coveted deeded parking spot.
Will this unit have better luck selling in 2009 than in 2008?
Michael Loizzi at Coldwell Banker still has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, no square footage listed
- Sold in August 2000 for $213,000
- Sold in August 2004 for $270,000
- Originally listed in February 2008 for $310,000
- Reduced several times to $275,000 in October 2008
- Canceled
- Re-listed in October 2008 for $299,000 (parking included)
- Canceled
- Re-listed in April 2009 for $289,000 (parking included)
- Assessments of $398 a month
- Taxes of $3,610
- No central air- window units
- No in-unit washer/dryer
- Bedroom #1: 16×13
- Bedroom #2: 11×11
- Living room: 20×13
- Kitchen: 11×11
I stand by my original estimation. 250k. People are going to think twice about not having central air in the summer season when its 80 degrees out and their nuts are sweating.
-1 bathroom? Check
-no w/d? Check
-no central air? Check
-uncovered parking? Check
-High assessments? Check
-Rental Quality finishes? Check
-Radiator heat? Check
I wouldn’t pay $150k for this place.
My apartment is nearby. It has central air and I have my own parking spot (no w/d though, neither does this). My rent is under 1k/month. For larger apartments around this size their rent is around $1,400/month with parking and a lot of these have w/d or central air.
Their monthly nut is $700 before even their mortgage. LOL.
Why would anybody ever buy a CONDO with NO central air and NO in unit washer & dryer? Thats an apartment not a condo. Earth to seller: you’re going to lose a lot of money.
I am thinking 200k when the dust settles. Call me crazy but again I take assessments into account and any buyer smart enough to save up a 10-20% downpayment likely will too.
I like this unit, I used to live a block down on Wellington and wasn’t a huge fan of the immediate area (college after college near clark), but that’s just me.
Central air can always be added to units w/o it so you can just build that into the price – it’s not really fair to take off $30K or more because central a/c doesn’t exist when it can be added for less than $10,000 on a unit this size (if heating ducts are present it’ll be even less).
As for the no washer/dryer, that would be a major problem, but again you would think you can make the space and add that somewhere.
There is a hospital right down on Wellington and it’s quite busy – I remember hearing the sirens all the time.
Other than that taxes seem fair and I would just look into why the assessments are what they are.
I don’t think everyone on here fully understands assessments, they can be variable meaning a place that’s very low like $100 a month would get praise on here, but then that’s so low that you’re almost guaranteed to chip in more throughout the year to keep up w/building maintenance – and if something major needs to be done forget about it. The opposite can be said of high assessments.
So although some people may not take into account high assessments when purchasing, others seem to not consider assessments that are unrealistically low.
“when it can be added for less than $10,000 on a unit this size ”
According to some here, you way over-estimate–Practically for zero, I believe was the allegation.
Oh yeah I totally forgot this is right next to like 5 hospitals. So I wouldn’t buy it for $100k!
Sonies, are you from the suburbs? Well in dense urban neighborhoods, people place a higher value on the public realm than on the private realm. You pay for the neighborhood, and it’s not a big deal not to have in-unit laundry or parking (many of us don’t have cars anyway) or even a/c. And I don’t get why you discount radiators — I’d prefer them over the forced air I currently have.
You grossly underestimate the value of a great place. I don’t care what amenities a home has — I would never live somewhere that wasn’t a pleasant walk from a train station where I could walk to everything I’d need in a week. I would sooner downsize to 250 sq. ft. with no a/c than move to almost any suburb (I don’t mind Oak Park or Evanston).
While this place isn’t in my favorite corner of Lakeview, it’s still a block from the Wellington Brown Line station, and only about three blocks form the Belmont Brown/Red/Purple station, with quick access to downtown, north lakefront, Lincoln Square area, and express service to Evanston. There will be a nice new grocery store a block away to replace the one that burned down. The lake only a couple blocks away. There’s a great alternative theater a block away. There are countless restaurants nearby, plenty of bars so you’d never end up drinking and driving, and there are always cabs outside.
This unit may be priced a tad high, though it’s hard to tell without knowing square footage or seeing the floor plan (I say quality is more important than quantity with floor area).
Picking up sarcasm isn’t some peoples forte.
Though we keep seeing the price for AC drop, $15M to $10M. If the trend keeps up it will be free.
“You pay for the neighborhood, and it’s not a big deal not to have in-unit laundry or parking (many of us don’t have cars anyway) or even a/c.”
You don’t speak for all people. I live in an urban dense neighborhood as well, in fact two blocks from this place. I place a value on all of those things. I wouldn’t be caught dead paying 300k for a place with no central air or washer & dryer.
Please take your “its different here” argument elsewhere. Just because its an “urban, dense” area does not mean that modern amenities don’t have value and shouldn’t.
This place with its lack of amenities is riding the coat-tails valuation-wise of places that do. Sorry but you can’t put lipstick on a pig and call it Miss America.
Oh yeah that grocery store you claim is being built, how is that coming along? Last I checked that parking lot still looked quite serene and nice this weekend so STFU with the hype.
I used to live two blocks west of this place. Decent area but sort of on the fringes of the better areas to the south. It was always slightly cheaper rents in the area too. A couple blocks north and you’re pushing the outer limits of gentrification of the area.
“Sonies, are you from the suburbs?”
No, just bought a place in “much denser” River North actually, after living on Wellington and Southport.
Well in dense urban neighborhoods, people place a higher value on the public realm than on the private realm. You pay for the neighborhood, and it’s not a big deal not to have in-unit laundry or parking (many of us don’t have cars anyway) or even a/c. And I don’t get why you discount radiators — I’d prefer them over the forced air I currently have.”
No you pay 300k for common amenities such as Central Air, and a washer dryer… Why not have them? They are incredibly useful and if you don’t mind not having them, why not rent for half the price? And i’m not getting into the radiator discussion again.
“You grossly underestimate the value of a great place. I don’t care what amenities a home has — I would never live somewhere that wasn’t a pleasant walk from a train station where I could walk to everything I’d need in a week.”
Based upon what logic? Because it would have sold for that in 2005? This place is a rental unit with a decent paint job and staged nicely. And I have no problem walking to work from where I live now compared to a 40 minute bus ride or 25 minute train ride from wellington, so I can completely understand the value of being able to walk everywhere, since I’m also… car free.
Also, that Grocery store burned down like 5 years ago, if they haven’t built anything there yet they won’t be building anything any time soon.
“A couple blocks north and you’re pushing the outer limits of gentrification of the area.”
Since when is Southport/Wrigleyville the outer limits of gentrification?
“Picking up sarcasm isn’t some peoples forte.
Though we keep seeing the price for AC drop, $15M to $10M. If the trend keeps up it will be free.”
But asking rhetorical questions and being churlish **is** some people’s forte.
Tell us, Johnny Utah, please, how much it *does* cost to install CAC in a house (or condo) w/o existing ductwork. Please, please, please????
HD,
This area is completely gentrified these days. When I was looking at the market last year one of the few condos that I liked was on Wellington, but alas, no parking (and it was rather small). I’ve since come to my senses and sworn off a starter condo, but this is a very nice area. Some of the neighborhood old timers have told me how the area used to not be gentrified, but that was before my time.
This is also a very busy block of Wellington traffic-wise, not sure I’d want to live on such a busy block either.
Oh and Sonies the train ride downtown is more like 40mins from this place 😀
“Tell us, Johnny Utah, please, how much it *does* cost to install CAC in a house (or condo) w/o existing ductwork. Please, please, please????”
How many sf?
“Oh and Sonies the train ride downtown is more like 40mins from this place ”
Packed in like sardines too… god I hated the EL up there, I’d take the bus so i had a seat at least. Nothing more fun than smelling 6 people packed in 3 inches from your face (Im tall so its really annoying trying to stand under the doorway of the train car with my head cocked sideways)
Thx, JU–
Try this one and the Edgewater house where it first came up.
This one looks like ~800 sqft (est. as a 31×24 box–based on room sizes and apparent layout from pics–and rounding up).
And the Edgewater house was ~700/floor on three floors, with an unfinished attic. Assume dual zone (basement w/ main floor), done however you want.
Space-pac or other retrofitted central air-conditioning system still requires equipment installation which likely will reduce closet storage space unless space is carved out of living space for a new utility closet.
Installing washer/dryer has same issue; lose a closet or living space. And combined washer/dryer in kitchen area next to sink (more common in Europe) is very inconvenient and unsightly – you really want to sort your dirty underwear where you cook your food?
This unit was constructed as a modest rental unit, and will never overcome those limitations. The conflated real estate boom encouraged condo-conversions of older rental buildings that don’t meet expectations of a conservative home-buyer. Many owners of these types of units will need to drop their asking prices considerably to compete with newer purpose-built condo units with higher levels of amenities and finishes.
My post was intended for the irving park thread sorry. Please disregard my comments on the wellington post. (I meant north of IP is the limits of gentrification I.e wilson, lawrence, etc)
I’ll tackle the house in Edgewater.
2100sf finished
Equipment
Condenser/AHU – $3500 4T
VAVs – $1000
Installation/materials
Ductwork – $6000
Electrical/LV – $1500
Humidifier – $500
Chases/Patch work – $4000
Paint – $500
This is what I would consider favorable pricing with quality workmanship.
Space pac installation cost isn’t a SF cost calculation. It requires an inspection of existing building configuration and construction to determine where pipe ductwork and equipment can be placed and degree of difficulty to make penetrations in walls, floors and structure, and place equipment.
JU–thx.
One question (not trying to be difficult)–Is $17k that different from $15k?
I’d noted that you get what you pay for, but that $15k was possible, which your numbers would seem to indicate–drop the humidifier and paint (DIY or re-allocated b/c you were going to paint anyway) and find a cheaper drywall guy (or have a layout that requires less chase work), dropping $2k+ would be doable, no?
I was kind of surprised when I actually wrote it out. My gut was telling me it’s a $25M job
Its probably doable. The equipment pricing I think is pretty much cost (I swaged a bit on the AHU), and might be difficult to get, though with the recent housing slump there are probably plenty in inventory and there might be some motivation to get rid of them or if a contractor has them sitting around from a job that went south they may cut a good deal.
I guess I would be hesitant to have people think that it’s a $15M job to add AC to a older home.
JU–
It was about 5 years ago, but I got a full dual system done for under $18k, excluding paint. And the other estimates were about the same. Maybe I was just lucky.
And no, they didn’t use builder-crap-grade compressors.
Hohoho looks like Fannie and Freddie could be liquidated!
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aKznvsNas8Qo
These two former GSEs and now wards of the taxpayers morphed into the exact opposite of what they were created to do (make housing more affordable). Its time to liquidate and wind them down and for Uncle Sam to get out of the mortgage market.
I am starting to like this new Prez in some aspects. This option would’ve never been discussed by cowardly W who was too in bed with big business and lobbyists.
Anon(tfo)
I think the $15M is possible and seems in line with my numbers bringing yours forward. I just tend to be a litlle more conservative wrt projecting costs. I’m a little jaded from watching home improvement shows.
“I just tend to be a litlle more conservative wrt projecting costs.”
Definitely the wise course.
Regarding the assessments – I looked at some units on the first floors of these condo buildings. They were “almost” finished paying a special assessment to repair/replace the boiler. My agent asked the seller’s agent (of the first floor unit) how much money was in the reserves and she didn’t know.
However, the units I saw looked nicer than most others at the same price range. I don’t think that compensates for possible low reserves or special assessments, but someone else might.
Sonies — I agree with you that this might be priced a little high, but I was mainly reacting to the price you put on it of $100k – $150k, which is ridiculous. Though I understand that’s your personal price, just like I wouldn’t pay $1 for a home in Schaumburg, and that doesn’t mean other people wouldn’t.
I think there are a lot of people who think “modern amenities” are just excess luxuries, and don’t factor in to the “meat” value of the place. I don’t have in-unit laundry, and I’m totally happy with that. And many people consider a car and parking essentials, but we both apparently count those as unnecessary luxuries. I’d also consider a second bedroom a luxury for a couple with no kids and would rather live in a smaller place and have more money left over for other things.
I would rather own than rent because I know I won’t be moving any time soon, I want the freedom to do what I like with my home, I like knowing it’s mine and I can’t be kicked out because of a landlord deciding to sell the building to a developer, and I can build equity own my home outright after it’s paid off.
If I were looking for a two-bedroom, I would think $289 isn’t a bad price to pay if it has decent space, and leaving off the excess luxuries keeps the cost down. If there are lower-priced places in the same neighborhood that meet a buyer’s needs, then by all means they might as well go for the better deal. But if someone is so concerned with the year-to-year market swings, they probably should rent and not buy. It’s like a retirement account — you need to be in it for the long haul and not be phased by every downturn. I think the mindset that real-estate is just a commodity to be traded in the short-term is what has gotten so many buyers in trouble.