Trying to Sell an Authentic 2/2 River North Loft: 375 W. Erie
This 2-bedroom loft at 375 W. Erie in River North has been on and off the market since August 2008.
It is a 1500 square foot end unit with authentic loft features such as exposed brick and a timber ceiling.
The listing doesn’t say if it is north or south facing (north faces the street but south faces into buildings across the alley.)
The kitchen has granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
The loft has central air and washer/dryer in the unit. It also has a 2-car tandem parking spot available.
Including the parking, this unit is currently listed $9,900 over the 2006 purchase price.
What will it take to finally sell this loft?
Lucas Blahnik at Blahnik Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #213: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1500 square feet
- Sold in March 1998 for $254,000
- Sold in May 2002 for $355,000
- Sold in September 2005 for $430,000
- Sold in September 2006 for $410,000
- Originally listed in August 2008
- Was listed in October 2008 for $475,000
- Withdrawn in July 2009 listed at $450,000
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in December 2009
- Listed in January 2011 for $399,900
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $379,900 (plus $40,000 for parking)
- Assessment of $469 a month (includes parking, doorman)
- Taxes of $5795
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 16×13
- Bedroom #2: 15×12
Wow, so they actually raised their price since January by subtracting the parking. Strikes me as a questionable sales tactic.
Based on one of the living room pictures with a window, this place faces north. You can see the building on the NW corner of Erie/Hudson.
$365k including parking gets this sold.
“What will it take to finally sell this loft?”
I’m going to guess $345k, including the parking.
The 2006 purchaser probably thought they got a deal because it was 20k less than the 2005 price, and I’m not sure what makes this guy think he’s going to get more than he paid for this place in 2006…
My guess is 375-400k it will sell with parking
My information leads me to believe this unit had been foreclosed upon with an order of possession entered on January 25, 2011, if I’m looking at the right PIN. I matched up the name of the $410,000 sales price to the subsequent mortgages.
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
12/08/2009 12/10/2009 LIS PENDENS FORECLOSURE $0.00
If it’s REO, or subject to bank approval, it’s headed under $350k.
I think it’s going below $300…I hate these long hallway type 2/2’s where the 2nd bedroom doesn’t have a window. Most ‘lofts’ in the city looks like this, it’s nothing special, very bleh.
Who is going to buy this for 420k when you can get a much nicer 2/2 in a more modern looking building for 300k?
Seriously you have dozens of better options at 420k in both more modern buildings and at significantly lower prices. This is going back to the bank.
“Who is going to buy this for 420k when you can get a much nicer 2/2 in a more modern looking building for 300k?”
Someone who likes a loft. Other than 154 W. Hubbard which is “newer”- there are no more loft buildings that remain to be converted in River North.
Buyer of this place should:
Earn at least 151k (pre-tax)
Have 84k to put down
I really like classic lofts with exposed brick and true loft ceilings and my true dream “in-town” is about 3 times this size in a nice location or a fully-renovated Piece-style “Chicago barn garage” property.
Maybe $340k with parking for this property.
“Have 84k to put down”
Isn’t this the key for many of those properties under $500k?
People have the income but they don’t have the downpayments now. That’s why so many are pulled into the FHA approved buildings (which only require 3.5% down.)
Any comments about that step in shower/tub combo design? I have always been curious about how it feels. I suspect that the shower area is fine but always wonder if you feel trapped in or a bit weird when sitting in the bathtub behind the shower? Perhaps it is just my claustrophobia talking. I have a hard time with middle seats on a plane but last week the wife actually got me to go in a submarine in the Caymans.
jp3: I have that sort of design and really like it; makes for cleaning the tub easy, and I also sealed off the top of the glass shower door wall to install a steam system. Frankly though the tub gets used oh once or twice a year.
The extra area makes the shower feel larger than it is as well.
If you make $151k a year, how hard is it to sock away 2k a month for 3.5 years… oh wait its not hard, especially if you’re renting something affordable
Developer incorrectly assumed that having the balcony off the living room was more important than having a living room with a view. So the main living space looks directly into the alley and building next door and the bedrooms look north and probably also have views of Hancock, etc.
Given a choice, they should have flipped the set-up. Since the balcony could only be added in the rear. Have the second bedroom be the one with the balcony, add french doors to that room so it’s more multi-purpose. And wa-la… you have a unit people would buy.
Unfortunately, for sellers having a living room that looks into an alley and another building will really hurt them in this market. I can’t see it selling for much more than $300.
“there are no more loft buildings that remain to be converted in River North.”
Friedman Properties alone must have about a dozen. I wouldn’t rule out others currently used as offices, too.
If you make $151k a year, would you really want to live here?
“#Sonies on March 8th, 2011 at 9:06 am
If you make $151k a year, how hard is it to sock away 2k a month for 3.5 years… oh wait its not hard, especially if you’re renting something affordable”
“Friedman Properties alone must have about a dozen. I wouldn’t rule out others currently used as offices, too”
Nobody will be doing conversions to residential loft condo’s or any condo’s for a long long time. Especially when commercial lease activity is picking up some steam. I’d wager that almost all of those existing loft office spaces will be loft office spaces for the next 10 years.
BTW thanks wicker. I kinda like that look and might add that option to my next place.
“Friedman Properties alone must have about a dozen. I wouldn’t rule out others currently used as offices, too.”
Traffic court building was originally going to be condos on the upper floors.
“If you make $151k a year, would you really want to live here?”
sure, why not? Its a great part of town, granted I wouldn’t pay
420k for this place but around 375k, I think it would be a solid deal
$151k is a very respectable income.
Sonies on March 8th, 2011 at 10:17 am
“If you make $151k a year, would you really want to live here?”
sure, why not? Its a great part of town, granted I wouldn’t pay
420k for this place but around 375k, I think it would be a solid deal
“#Sonies on March 8th, 2011 at 10:17 am
“If you make $151k a year, would you really want to live here?”
sure, why not? Its a great part of town, granted I wouldn’t pay
420k for this place but around 375k, I think it would be a solid deal”
“I’d wager that almost all of those existing loft office spaces will be loft office spaces for the next 10 years.”
So would I. My point was that the buildings do exist.
151k isn’t that much, i’d wager that most households that live in the green zone and own pull in that much. hell two city workers can pull that in these days @ 75k a piece which isn’t outrageous by any means
What if you are single? $151K is years and years away for most. And I’m not talking 22 year olds. Unless you are a doctor or lawyer, who makes $151k?
Sonies.. over 150k a year puts your family in the top 6%. So for 94% of those out there it kinda looks like a lot.
And now JMM will step in and say that significant wage inflation is coming. That would be nice if it extended beyond the top 6% of people for once.
“over 150k a year puts your family in the top 6%. So for 94% of those out there it kinda looks like a lot.”
Don’t let facts interfere.
“over 150k a year puts your family in the top 6%. So for 94% of those out there it kinda looks like a lot”
You guys also forget that there are a lot of people downsizing who have considerable equity in their homes (even if they don’t make 150k+)
“Sonies.. over 150k a year puts your family in the top 6%. So for 94% of those out there it kinda looks like a lot.”
yeah and that’s just people that report those incomes… I know a lot of people uh… embellish to the downside for tax purposes
so lets say its 8% of the population, which also could be on the lower side
The other thing that you forget is that there might be plenty of people who make $151,000 a year; but for many that type of income just isn’t simply sustainable for any length of time, above and beyond the professional class, and even for them. I know mortgage brokers who were my age making $150k or more a year in 2004/2005. Guess what they’re making today?
No one who understands math and is financially responsible would want to put less than 20% down these days. Aren’t you paying something like 100 bps higher plus PMI by not putting down 20% in today’s mortgages? That is easily hundreds of dollars a month in extra non-principal payments.
Sonies.. thoroughly logical reply. let’s take it to 8%. Still, as an analogy, only talking about the guys in the stadium sitting center field mezzanine section.
Guys- there are a lot of opportunities in real estate right now. We are at (or very near the bottom). Look for the great deals, buy them and hold on for another 10 years. You know that there is going to be another bubble in the next 10-20 years – just remember to sell when we get there. You will do extremely well. It really isn’t that hard…
Defintiely single poeple have less income per household, but there are other jobs that make this much money. People in various businesses for example. I know of a young lady who makes quite a bit owning a hair salon. I am sure there are other small business owners in Chicago who make that much, think Bar and restaurant owners, good chefs and so on. BTW, most lawyers don’t make that much money.
“What if you are single? $151K is years and years away for most. And I’m not talking 22 year olds. Unless you are a doctor or lawyer, who makes $151k?”
miumiu – I totally agree with you. When I look at the richest people in my neighborhood, the vast majority are in non-traditional fields (car dealership owners, mafia, and many many business owners – think hair salons, bars, restaurants, machine shops, auto repair shops) – it is crazy. Actually, my plumber told me that he makes over 200k/year. My roofer (last year) was complaining because he said he used to clear 600k/year and now he only makes 300k. In addition, sonies is right – most of these people can “shelter” much of this income so that there are probably many many more people than we think that are making more than 150k/year (also, you have to remember that increases in investments/stock market are not counted in this income statistic).
Roofers make 300k in the worst housing economy in modern history?
I’ve really heard it all now.
“Roofers make 300k in the worst housing economy in modern history?”
Not the guys on the roof, the guy who owns the company. Totally plausible, to me.
Clio, you’re turning into that basketball player (I think it was Latrell Spreewell) who had absolutely no concept of what average wages are and thought that waitresses made 200k a year.
anon is right – sorry if I confused people – I was talking about the owner of the company
Right, Anon, I should have assumed that Clio was talking about the owners of roofing and plumbing companies. Not the actual roofers and plumbers that he was talking about.
“Sonies.. thoroughly logical reply. let’s take it to 8%. Still, as an analogy, only talking about the guys in the stadium sitting center field mezzanine section.”
yeah but think about how many homes are in the green zone vs. total garbage suburban & other city neighborhood homes?
You ever been to St. Louis? my god like 95% of that city and the surrounding area is shitty 2-3br/1ba tract homes. Chicago isn’t much different. You have more nicer suburbs and larger nice city areas here in Chicago but thats mainly because there are more good jobs here.
Then think about ownership rates of around 50% and you have lots of owners taking in about 150k+ in the green zone.
Basically what I think I’m trying to say is that the green zone (owners) are an extremely small supply of the overall Chicago housing market and with that exclusivity you will have more extreme income disparity due to its uniqueness and desireability.
“also, you have to remember that increases in investments/stock market are not counted in this income statistic”
Nor do losses whch they never really let you take.
Eventually the gains actually do show up as long-short capital gains and dividends.
I think what is really being argued is that if lending standards weren’t freaking retarded a bank shouldn’t be writing a loan for over 320k to a family showing under 150k of family income.
Sonies.. through the cloud of smoke, I’m in agreement. We could have went on 5 other tangents too but as they would be related to Real Estate they would be irrelevant to post here. Nowhere is your argument more transparent than down here. And yes.. St. Louis is mostly shit.
“And yes.. St. Louis is mostly shit.”
It’s shocking to think that, at the turn of last century, St Louis was the 4th largest city in the US and got the Olympics *and* a world’s fair in the same year. Now it’s in the 50s and falling.
I’m talking about single people from 22 to 34 years old. What percentage make 151K a year or more? I’m sure it isn’t 8%. Even if you include just the green zone, with a population of about 463,000 (based on 2000 census data), which includes Lakeview, Lincoln Park, West Loop, the Loop, Streeterville, Gold Coast, South Loop, Wicker Park, and Bucktown. 2010 census data would probably be about 5-10% higher now due to all the increase in density of certain of those neighborhoods, so let’s say 500,000 residents of those areas. Of those working and between the ages of 22 and 34, how many make over $151K?
Do all the people that don’t make that much just move away eventually, or do they just rent studios in Uptown?
“Of those working and between the ages of 22 and 34, how many make over $151K? ”
I’m talking about owners, not renters
Most 22-34 year olds in the green zone, rent
Dave… I don’t want to sound like my post great depression grandparents but I think people in their 20’s aren’t supposed to be able to live like that yet. Supposed to be in the saving stage to shortly be able to… but hey this is what i thought when I went nervously asking for my first loan only to find out years later the same loan would require less than a pulse for someone to receive.
500,000 out of 5.2 million residents in Cook County in the green zone. And then if you include the nicer suburbs in the County like Barrington, Oak Park, Skokie, Evanston, Wilmette, Kenilworth, Winnetka, and Park Ridge, that is another 370,000 people. I haven’t even included southern lake county in this, or eastern DuPage County, which have some very wealthy populations. So around 17% of the population of Cook County lives in very desirable areas, compared to your 95%/5% split you referred to in St Louis.
Rich people often own more than one residence you know. And also there are rich people called ‘landlords’ and ‘businesses’ that also own multiple properties
So basically, all of the rich people are old you are saying. Good to know. My numbers above were only based on residents, not the # of properties.
Dave,
Not ALL but YES that is what I am saying. Rich requires savings, and savings generally take time to accumulate, and time generally makes you old, so if you look at the stats wealth is generally concentrated in the hands of older people. Obviously being older, in and of itself, does not entitle you to be rich. very complicated stuff….
Welcome to the school of common sense, DaveM
So most of the young people that look like they are wealthy probably are not on paper, unless it is family money. My point is that incomes are not as high as people think they are. Obviously with 2 people working in a household it’s much easier to reach $150 or $175K in income than just one person.
I know several owners in the green zone, and DMZ who are nowhere near 150K in annual income. They are not old, and qualified to buy their places just fine.
“Obviously with 2 people working in a household it’s much easier to reach $150 or $175K in income than just one person.”
Yes, much easier, but nonetheless “officially” only 6%
“They are not old, and qualified to buy their places just fine.”
Argument earlier was based on Coogan and his qualifying income numbers, which personally i agree with. Do they qualify under those standards? I do not know.
“young people that look like they are wealthy probably are not on paper”
You may strike the word young as I have found the rest of the statement to be consistantly and universally true.
The rule of thumb for mortgage qualifying is roughly 3x’s your gross monthly income.
Front Ratio is PITI/Gross Monthly income and really should not exceed 28%. Back Ratio is (PITI + Major Debt)/Gross monthly income and shouldn’t exceed 36%. Fannie/Freddie will allow up to 50% back ratios which basically means you are “House Poor” in most cases.
Most borrowers qualify for more than they can realistically afford under current underwriting guidelines.
So basically, the way to save up big time would be to buy a house on the northwest side for under $200K, do renovations yourself, drive your cars for 10 years, and save save save. Not sure if it’s worth all the sacrifice to do that.
I meant gross annual income… If you make $100k, you can usually afford a $300k place based on standard guidelines and dependning on your debt levels.
“Not sure if it’s worth all the sacrifice to do that.”
well then don’t whine about not having any money because you’re paying credit card companies or the bank interest all those years instead of paying yourself first.
Guess what, Americans have too much junk/crap as it is… holding back and only buying what you actually NEED and making your own meals isn’t that hard.
“making your own meals isn’t that hard.”
It is if you don’t have a “chef’s kitchen”.
don’t worry everything built since 2001 has a chefs kitchen… well, except for 1400 LSD
basically yes, you have to live frugal to save up big time. it’s a twist on the adage ‘live like lawyer during law school and live like a student when you’re a lawyer’.
i don’t know about you guys but my biggest expenses are ahead of me: college for children, healthcare premiums until I’m 65, weddings, and the biggest of them all – retirement. If I live it up today then I can’t complain when I eat cat food when I’m older.
“#Dave M on March 8th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
So basically, the way to save up big time would be to buy a house on the northwest side for under $200K, do renovations yourself, drive your cars for 10 years, and save save save. Not sure if it’s worth all the sacrifice to do that.”
“So basically, the way to save up big time would be to buy a house on the northwest side for under $200K, do renovations yourself, drive your cars for 10 years, and save save save. Not sure if it’s worth all the sacrifice to do that.”
Yes! Just also do not buy that car new!
My thoughts once upon a time was make any sacrifice early as the decisions good and bad are compounding and it’s also much easier to sacrifice young than to have to when you are older… just sayin!
Russ – Do lenders ever consider child care expenses in the ratio? My understanding is it’s not considered at all but it seems foolish to ignore that when considering an applicant’s expenses, given that can be a signficiant portion of one’s income.
If you are within the lender’s DTI requirements, they don’t really care what else you spend the rest of your income on, as long as it’s not negatively affecting your credit.
HD – do you have reoccuring nightmares about eating cat food? Because that seems to come up quite often in your posts.
@ Chris. No they don’t which is why most people qualify for more than they can actually afford. The only debts that are considered are student loans, car payments, min. monthly on credit cards, existing mortgages if you own another property, and misc installment loans.
The only loans I am aware of that consider child care expenses are VA loans. If the buyer is divorced, they will consider when alimony/child support ends though. Needs to continue for at least three years to count.
Mortgage underwriting is so far out of whack with the real world it isn’t funny. They also don’t look at cell phone bills, cable bills, yard care, etc. The issue is that the guidelines really haven’t kept up with people’s lifestyles over the decades imho. Back in the day, I don’t think people had as many misc. expenses, so the ratios made sense.
It’s just an expression I hear all the time when referring to austerity measures and how the boomers will be living at the end of their days. I liked it.
“#Chris M on March 8th, 2011 at 4:51 pm
HD – do you have reoccuring nightmares about eating cat food? Because that seems to come up quite often in your posts.”
“What if you are single? $151K is years and years away for most. And I’m not talking 22 year olds. Unless you are a doctor or lawyer, who makes $151k?”
We’ve discussed this before. It’s a very, very small percentage of the population. For single women- it’s something like 0.5% of all women would make this income.
If anyone has read the Millionaire Next Door- popular from the 1990s- it basically argues that most of the rich are small business owners (dry cleaners etc.) and NOT doctors, lawyers etc. They are the ones living in the normal house, driving the Ford Taurus but who strangely have enough money to send all 3 or 4 of their kids to college and graduate school with no loans etc. They also usually bought their homes at only 2 times their income (but not more than 3 times their income.) The book was written before the boom, however.
That makes a lot of sense Sabrina. BTW, considering the size of GZ, there is no way it even makes one percentage of housing supply in Chicago land area so I am not sure why the 6% income bracket has got every ones knickers in a twist.
Sorry to interrupt but what is “the green zone”? Thanks.
“the green zone” or “GZ” is a cribchatter term used to designate the popular, trendy Chicago neighborhoods such as River North, Streeterville, the Loop, Gold Coast, Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Bucktown and Wicker Park.
Quoting someone else on the definition:
Dave M on March 23rd, 2010 at 9:13 am
Green zone neighborhoods – Lakeview (to 4200N), Roscoe Village, Lincoln Park, Old Town, Gold Coast, River North, Loop, South Loop to 1800S, West Loop to 1300W, River West, Andersonville, Lincoln Square, Bucktown to 2200W, portions of Wicker Park, and portions of Logan Square.
Got it. Thanks!
miumiu: The green zone has 500,000 residents out of 2.7M in Chicago. That’s close to 20%. And not all of the top 6% of people in income live in the GZ. So I don’t get what you are saying exactly. Not sure on total land area, but density is much higher.
I guess you said Chicago-land area. Missed that. Cook County has 5.2M people and Chicago metro area 9.5M.
Miumiu.. the point was that NOT that many people “make that much money” and under safe and conservative more traditional lending standards the market can not maintain these prices.
“under safe and conservative more traditional lending standards the market can not maintain these prices.”
Right. With tighter lending standards, there simply aren’t enough buyers at these price levels.
Just wait until interest rates rise. It should get interesting real fast then.
“Just wait until interest rates rise. It should get interesting real fast then.”
Personally if I were buying right now I would want my rate locked and for term at these levels. People seem a bit too comfortable with this free money thing going on right now, as if it should stay forever somewhere it has never stayed before..
@ze, we are all in agreement about the bubble and unrealistic prices (uncontrollable appreciation of houses in the past decade or so). I was just disagreeing with the analysis. If you consider the price of properties in most European and Asian countries as compared to their population’s income, I believe the ratio is quite high specially in prime locations, think down town Tokyo, Milan, Paris, London and so on. At least in those countries this has not resulted in significant price cuts in RE.
But of course the US market in very different so I am really not sure how things will play out here.
Chicago is no Paris or London. Rising interest rates had better come along with significant increases in wages, otherwise, there will be a lot of pain. It will not be like previous times. All these people say real estate only goes up in the long run, but the current correction in real terms will continue for some time as lending standards continue to reset. As Fannie and Freddie go away, and 30 year mortgages go away, and the mortgage interest deduction becomes more limited, this will mute any significant price appreciation in real terms to a much smaller percentage.
miumiu… Do you catch your disconnect between declaring your sentiments with bubble prices and defending your argument with bubble prices? What u labled i define as money center cities, places people with wealth congregate too from around the world. Chicago is not one of them. Paris to me is bulletproof, only other place i feel that way about is ipanema. In fairness i should disclose i own in both.
My argument is simply this. IF IF IF standards move to what i believe they sanely should be u would go to the bank and they would say we are only going to give u X. So where else WOULD the difference in price come from? Not cash buyers for sure.
Ze…again I beg to differ. If you check the property values in any city in Italy, think Pisa, Florence, even small towns like Massa still the price of the properties are way out of line compared to how much people earn. This is true in almost all Europe and Asia. Most young people in those countries can never afford to buy a home without their parents help or after say a grand parent dies and they inherit a property. Again I am not saying this will be the case in Chicago at all, but I was pointing out markets that there is clear disparity between the income and RE prices to show that lack of income does not automatically translate to declining prices.
I’ve lived in Italy for a few months (study abroad if that counts). I can tell you that there are very few single family homes and midrise condos are everywhere. There are severe restrictions on building so you will have these midsize buildings out to the edge of the city; and then it’s rural after that. It’s not like here where the developers build mcmansions as far as the eye can see. So there really is a limited supply, artificially limited, yes, but it is limited. Even the small little rural towns have got these midrise buildings and no houses. Most look like they were built in the 50’s or 60’s,.
To say that Chicago isn’t a world class city is dumb. Its in the top 25 at least
“To say that Chicago isn’t a world class city is dumb. Its in the top 25 at least”
But ze is talking about a different standard–where do UHNW-ers establish new residences in double digit numbers and specifically excluding resort-y type places. Chicago, for all the positives, ain’t one of them. In the US, it’s NYC, Miami (basically bc of Latin America), *maybe* LA, EsEff, and I don’t think I’m short changing anyplace. Globally Rio, Paris, London, HK, maybe Sydney, Mumbai, Dubai.
I think the main difference is that on those countries the owners really own the RE, i.e, they have paid off their properties and tend to rent them if they want to keep them to say later pass on to their kids. In US many owners put 10% down hoping for a quick flip and hence when the bubble burst they are in trouble.
HD, you make a very good point about lack of permits to make high rises in city centers in many of these towns. If this was the case here, people wouldn’t care much and just move away to a suburb. But the important cultural difference is Italians rather live in small places where they can walk around and don’t like moving aways from the center and the commute like Americans. Basically the suburban mentality is changing the RE market drastically in this country.
I disagree anon, there are plenty of UHNW people that own places in chicago. Its an amazing town in the summer, yeah we don’t ahve nice weather year round, but neither does paris or london. And in no way am I saying that we are a better town than NYC, Rio, Paris etc. but to say that UHNW people don’t even bother with Chicago is a bit much.
Also, Dubai blows people are leaving that vegas wanna be dump in droves
“I disagree anon, there are plenty of UHNW people that own places in chicago. ”
Yes, but did any of them have *no* connection to Chicago before moving here? That’s the group ze is addressing.
I’m sure there are plenty anon
“I’m sure there are plenty anon”
I’m just as sure there aren’t.
Chicago’s great and all, but if you have *no* family and *no* business interests here (or nearby), and $30mm+ in liquid assets, is it really the place you’d make your principal urban domicile?
I didn’t realize you were talking about principal residence, I was thinking more of a summer home
“I didn’t realize you were talking about principal residence, I was thinking more of a summer home”
Even on the “urban summer home” for someone whose primary is a compound in Arizona, Texas, Florida or overseas someplace. If they have absolutely no pre-existing connection to Chicago other than watching the Cubs on ‘gn or being a huge Jordan fan or really loving the Art Institute or whatever, and no family or business interests w/in 500 miles of Chicago, why would they?
Yeah, for anyone who grew up, has close family and/or owns/owned a business east of the Rockies, west of the Appalachians and north of Memphis, I can totally see it, as it is *clearly* the best big city, with the most similar type people, for that area (south of memphis is going to split among ATL, NO, Houston and Dallas). And that’s *millions* of people. But that’s a connection, and I’m asking about someone with *no* prior connection.
Dubai sucks. There’s no culture. Zero walkability except in air-conditioned suburban off-the-highway malls or the old part of town by the port. However, when I tried to walk around there in the gold market area it was so uncomfortable I never went back. There were no women anywhere except for tourists and the guys were invasive oglers! Seriously. This one guy was pushing a wheel barrow across the street and actually set it down in heavy traffic to turn backwards and stare open-mouthed at me. Didn’t a lot of Europeans – mostly Irish and Brits – finance condos and then default in Dubai?
Rio is overrated. Dirty, dangerous, sketchy, dumpy, nasty and violent. I hate Rio. I spent some time in Ipanema and Leblon. Completely over-hyped. Would never put Rio in the same category as NY, London and Paris OR Chicago. Sure, Brazil’s economy is booming but so is India’s. You’ve still got masses of really poor people, police for hire as hit-men and you can still get held up at sub-machine gunpoint while sitting in a traffic jam or eating dinner at a restaurant. You’ve got this leisure class of really rich people who don’t have to work or do anything except meet for lunch in their sweater-necklaces and you haven’t got much of a middle class.
Chicago turns into a much more intelligent version of Miami in the summer. I love it.
Milkster – I totally agree with you about India – where the heck did all these people get all this money. It is CRAZY there right now. Even if the average person is making 30 dollars/month, real estate is more expensive (in absolute terms – not relative terms) than the U.S. – seriously – almost all of the condos/houses in Mumbai are upwards of a million DOLLARS. What the hell is going on?
The problem in Mumbai is that the population is so huge and land is so scarce. So even if you live next to a slum or a garbage dump you could potentially pay millions of dollars. I have a friend who married a guy from Delhi. His family has been squatting in a house for years. From what she says they were really lucky to get it even though it has dirt floors, rats, roaches and and outhouse.
Clio- property bubble. Duh.
ROFLMAO… “You’ve still got masses of really poor people, police for hire as hit-men and you can still get held up at sub-machine gunpoint while sitting in a traffic jam or eating dinner at a restaurant.”
Think of it as an E-Ticket ride at Disneyworld…
btw.. saw this in NYT today for all those talking about public schools vs private schools..
In Bronxville, 86 percent of the typical $43,000 property tax levied by the village goes to the school system, particularly to educate the growing grade school population. For the parents of these children — moving here in many cases from New York City — $43,000 is less than they would spend to put two or three children in a private school.
Adding to the pressure, younger couples, including the Pulkkinens, are buying their homes from empty-nesters, who often sell to escape the rising tax burden. Mary C. Marvin, the mayor, says this exodus is accelerating.
“Clio- property bubble. Duh”
Well maybe – but then why aren’t savvy foreign investors investing in the US real estate market? We are at (or near the bottom) – certainly these investors are not that foolish to keep buying in India and Rio at falsely elevated prices when they have bargains in the US? How do explain that?
“certainly these investors are not that foolish to keep buying in India and Rio at falsely elevated prices when they have bargains in the US? How do explain that?”
because most “investors” are fad chasing momentum following idiots?
so how much does private school cost? Is it the same price for primary school all the way through high school or it gets more expensive?
“so how much does private school cost?”
My son’s private boarding school (high school) on the East Coast cost around 48k (tuition, room and board)
My daughter’s private school (non-boarding) in L.A. is costing around 29k.
My friends and partners’ children in chicago go to private schools where the costs range from 8k (for a not-so-great private) to 25-29k (for the top)
Clio.. Much of what’s driving high end prices in Rio has to do with big energy money and absolutely no inventory.
HD.. early in the bubble… Friendly wager.. 5 of next 7 years positive and by 2020 highest residential price per sq ft in the world. loser can’t post here anymore… 🙂
“Friendly wager.. […] by 2020 highest residential price per sq ft in the world.”
Measured in what currency using what “exchange” methodology? Or scaled to wages or GDP?