Trying to Sell in Trump Tower Chicago in 2020: 401 N. Wabash in River North
This 2-bedroom on a penthouse level floor in Trump Tower Chicago at 401 N. Wabash in River North came on the market in March 2019.
Built in 2008, Trump Tower Chicago has 486 units and garage parking. There’s a hotel on the lower level, condo hotels, and then hotels on the upper floors.
It’s a full amenity building with an exercise room, an indoor pool and all the services of the hotel.
This unit is on the 86th floor and has views for miles.
The listing says there are only 4 units on this floor and the penthouse level has restricted access.
The listing says this is the first re-sale on this floor.
It has 12-foot floor-to-ceiling windows.
The listing says it has been customized and has a Calacatta marble master bathroom and custom closets.
This was one of only a handful of units I saw that had a custom kitchen (i.e. not the original one from the developer).
It has white cabinets and counter tops with stainless steel appliances.
The unit has central air, washer/dryer in the unit and one car parking is included. There’s also a tandem parking space available.
Originally listed in March 2019 for $3.1 million, it has been reduced to $2.2 million.
There are 59 units for sale in the building including 12 condo-hotel units, one of which is a short sale, 2 parking spaces and 45 condos.
We chattered about Trump Tower Chicago just after the 2016 election after the Women’s Marchers gathered near it.
Protesters have been gathering at it again in 2020 during the George Floyd/BLM protests.
What will happen to sales in the building this year?
Margaret Baczkowski at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures and floor plan here.
Unit #86B: 2 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2400 square feet
- Sold in December 2012 for $1.7 million
- Originally listed in March 2019 for $3.1 million
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $2.2 million (includes one car parking)
- Assessments of $3012 a month (includes gas, pool, exercise room, doorman and other hotel amenities)
- Taxes of $46,064
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Fireplace
- Bedroom #1: 17×13
- Bedroom #2: 13×13
- Living/dining room: 32×18
- Kitchen: 11×12
- Den: 15×18
Very underwhelming and if it’s really 2400sf an extremely poor use of space
It’s probably a plus that they’re only protesting Vs rioting.
I would never, ever buy in that building, or stay in that hotel. Anyone who does is morally derelict.
Only bigots do business with Trump.
This $2.2M property appears to be staged using the same discount furniture package that I used when selling my $400K condo.
The views are spectacular, the kitchen and baths are nice, the layout is awkward, and the Trump name is poison.
I can’t believe it, but I actually looked at units in this building years ago (let’s call it preT). The plush carpet in the hallways was the only thing I halfway liked, since they quieted what usually feels echo-ey and impersonal in high rise buildings. But I did wonder what a few dog accidents and years of resident traffic would do to it.
The units? Meh. Same old plain drywall and poor workmanship you’d see in any 80s/90s highrise apartment flip. Views on the 88th pretty impressive on first impact tho – but very cold/impersonal being that high up. Like living in an airplane, very detached from the world. Maybe that’s a selling feature. IMO off-the-rack granite counters and two Miele appliances do not mean luxury.
This particular unit is dated already, all the art is hung too high (a crime in itself), and I can just feel the ticky tacky fake flooring and faux stone as I walk by it from here. A hollow facade for 2.2. No thanks.
Fun fact about those plush carpets — they create so much static electricity that everyone is shocked when they touch the elevator buttons. One way to prevent it is to touch the wall first and then touch the button.
“Only bigots do business with Trump.”
Hahha I love the sarcastic comment! Last time I checked, it was the Democrat party that owned slaves, not the Republican party. The Democrat party then made Jim Crow laws, enforced segregation, and fought Republican’s giving women the right to vote. Democrats fought the civil rights bill (yes, this is true, some Democrats did). Democrats built the housing projects, encouraged welfare designed to keep minorities poor, and recently, it was the Democrat party that passed the crime bills and enforce locking up minorities at higher numbers. All in cities controlled by Democrats for 100 years at every level. Joe Biden and the Democrat party takes your vote for granted he can say that black people aren’t black unless they vote for Biden. And you defend him for that awful comment! The same Biden who encouraged forced busing and was responsible for the 1994 crime bill. Democrat policies have destroyed the home values of black neighborhoods, and turned them into high crime low income areas. Chicago has been controlled by Democrats for 100 years, and currently has only 1 Republican in city council…
But all Juiceman can say is Trump is racist.
“Trump name is poison.”
Yet, he’ll still get 65,000,000 votes this fall. And you can scream at they sky all you want.
Putin got 56 million votes (over 3 out of 4 cast) in 2018.
” the Democrat party”
Who is that? Is that your LDS expressing itself?
Yet, he’ll still get 65,000,000 votes this fall.
I’m sure that will help this homeowner sell their property.
These condos were priced from the Trump team at a 50% market premium due to the goodwill of the Trump brand. Now, they are selling at 25% market discount due to the toxicity of the brand.
Not sure who want to live here. Even if you were a Trump supporter, it will forever be the ground zero of every protest and demonstration in town. When is the last time anyone has been to Rebar at Trump??? The unleased retail space on the Chicago river is so toxic, agents try and market it without with the Trump name, as companies gasp when they find out it is in the Trump tower.
“This particular unit is dated already”. Ridiculous. You must be so insecure or such a trendwhore you need two units-one that is as current as possible and the other under renovation to reflect the latest trends. Move from one to the other and start the process over again.
I feel like I’ve seen plenty of 2k sq feet trump units for rent in the 7-9 range. Buying just would feel like a great decision.
nearly 4K a month prop taxes. Ouch
Ridiculous. You must be so insecure or such a trendwhore you need two units.
Well if we’re gonna name-call, yeah. It’s dated. Show me white fake stack stone in AD or Elle Decor. Oh wait, maybe they NEVER featured them. So you’re right, perhaps if it was never ON trend, it will never be OFF trend. This unit is a Classic!
“Only bigots do business with Trump.”
The Trump organization has nothing to do with the condo part of the building, from what I understand. They only own the hotel and the retail space below it which has never been leased out.
“It’s probably a plus that they’re only protesting Vs rioting.”
There are tons of police and other law enforcement guarding it during every protest. Some of the news reporters were saying they thought that maybe they had gotten word that it was an actual target for violence, so therefore there was a strong show of force there as, after all, people live in the building.
“Yet, he’ll still get 65,000,000 votes this fall. And you can scream at they sky all you want.”
I don’t care what votes he gets. Nixon and David Duke got votes too.
The actual reality is that he’s going to get crushed in the fall. As will most of the Republicans. Tear gassing protesters in front of the White House is just another atrocity that won’t stand in November.
The country has real problems that need to be addressed. We need serious politicians who can get things done in office.
Amateur hour is over.
Most of the units on the market in this building still had the original 2008 kitchens, with their cherry cabinets. I had to look really hard to find one that didn’t.
Who wants that now? It’s going to be a hard sell with all the other new builds on the market with their modern white cabinets. How soon until the Vista starts closings? It’s getting closer and it’s going to be big competition in the “views” category with TTC.
Layout of this kitchen is also not ideal. At this price point, I really want a big island.
“You must be so insecure or such a trendwhore you need two units-one that is as current as possible and the other under renovation to reflect the latest trends. Move from one to the other and start the process over again.”
Well- if you are buying a new home you DO want it to be on trend. Someone who is living there for decades may not update it because they don’t care, but if you are looking for your dream place, why settle for something that isn’t the dream?
If you are a highrise person — it is one of the best places to live IMO. Perfect proximity to the loop, river walk, lake, and river north restaurants.
The amenities are 5 star+ and amazing. I am sure most of you are familiar with the pool and spa and fitness facility, which means there is a lot you can do without going outside during the winter. Amenities also include access to room service, black car service, in-house maids, baby-sitters and dog walkers. There’s also 5 star quality concierges that can make a lot happen. In this building, you can literally live as if you personally employ a full-time housekeeper, cook, and driver.
Plus, you wouldn’t have to worry about maintaining a guest room and could have unlimited out of towners for a stay at once. I’d set up occasional overnight guests in hotel rooms.
Being at ground zero for protests would be a bummer, but I see that coming to an end when Trump is out of office.
The pricing from $3.1 million down to $2.2 million in the span of a couple months tells you all you need to know, both about the greedy seller and the toxicity of Trump’s “brand.”
Everything Trump touches dies.
Oh, wait, it was listed in 2019! Over a year and still no offer, even better. My two points still stand. Market is hot, yeah, hot but not for Trump’s “brand.”
“Everything Trump touches dies.”
This belies what you see in front of your eyes. Trump country is safe and secure. Barrack Hussein Obama country is currently on fire, burning down and being looted by its Barack’s own voters. If I’m missing something, please let me know how everything Trump dies. Because what you said literally makes no sense.
“The pricing from $3.1 million down to $2.2 million in the span of a couple months tells you all you need to know, both about the greedy seller and the toxicity of Trump’s “brand.””
I think most buyers consider a few things in a condo purchase other than the name that’s on the building. Fellow posters have shared this unit’s downfalls above.
“I think most buyers consider a few things in a condo purchase other than the name that’s on the building. Fellow posters have shared this unit’s downfalls above.”
Perhaps, but in the city of Chicago, you have to expect that a sizable chunk of the potential buyer pool is put-off by the name on the building. Of course, people don’t typically care about “the name” on the building, but it’s “Trump,” not just any name. Of course, there are strong reactions to it.
There is clear evidence that Trump’s properties have taken major hits in NYC and elsewhere. There’s a reason that (pre-Covid) you could find amazing deals at Trump hotel whereas similar properties would fetch higher nighty rates. Realtors even know this and often intentionally call the building by the address instead of the name (although they’re not fooling anybody). Even if the Trump Org has nothing to do with the condos themselves, many people are put off by it and who was behind it. They should rename it Rancic Tower for better branding, ha! I believe he was the apprentice winner that helped oversee construction…
Notice how bigots like the one who keeps commenting here always refer to Obama using his middle name fully spelled out. At the same time, you never see them refer to Trump as “Donald John Trump.”
This is not an accident. It’s purposeful. They think it reminds people that Obama is “one of them” who’s not “one of us.”
If Obama’s middle name were “Henry” or “Chris,” I guarantee they wouldn’t bother using it.
If anyone wants to be taken remotely seriously on this site and not be seen as an incorrigible bigot, they should probably start by simply referring to all presidents using their last name or their full first-last-middle names. Otherwise it’s obvious the kind of lame game they’re playing.
I’m Jewish. If someone tried to use my religion against me the way this person is using Obama’s background against him, they’d be eating my fist.
“ Amateur hour is over“
It’s creepy senile time
Giant Douche Vs Shit Sandwich 2.0
“If someone tried to use my religion against me the way this person is using Obama’s background against him, they’d be eating my fist.”
You’re assume you could kick their ass. From most I’ve seen, you probably couldn’t.
Be honest Dan #2: you aren’t going to risk having the shit beat out of you by someone who likely can. So stop fronting on the internet.
“At the same time, you never see them refer to Trump as “Donald John Trump.””
No you just call him Drumf, or worse, and I constantly see leftists calling him Hitler. The Hitler who killed tens of millions of people of all races, colors and creeds.
Remember this: Trump’s daughter and son in law are jewish, and so is a lot of his staff, yet, you call him Hitler. I saw dozens of Hitler references to President Trump today, where he was holding the bible in front of that church. Steven Colbert called him Hitler just last night. Calling someone Hitler is probably the worst thing you can call someone. It’s as bigoted and hateful of a slur there is.
“If someone tried to use my religion against me the way this person is using Obama’s background against him, they’d be eating my fist.”
First of all, Obama is NOT muslim; second of all,
SABRINA, please ban this man immediately. This is glorification of violence. Dan #2 needs to have his account suspended immediately. Nobody, nobody has the right to advocate or glorify violence. This man should be banned immediately. Especially in light of THE most violent May weekend in Chicago history, and the ongoing riots, this man just threatened violence. Despicable. You should be banned immediately.
I didn’t threaten you. I said if someone (meaning the ambiguous someone) said that to me, I’d hypothetically punch him.
And I’ve never called Trump “Hitler.” Those are your words. You put them in my mouth.
Saying he’s fine because he has Jewish relatives is bogus. It’s like saying Thomas Jefferson wasn’t a racist slaveholder because he had sexual relations with Sally Hemmings.
Please, step back and take it easy. You haven’t been threatened. And I’ve never actually hit someone ever. If you do feel threatened, I apologize. I was pretty angry.
As a side note, I recognize Obama isn’t Muslim. Most Republicans would tell you he is, despite very clear proof he’s Christian. He has an African heritage through his father, who provided him his middle name. By singling him out this way, you’re deliberately using his heritage to insult him. Unless of course it’s your usual habit to call all presidents by their midldle name.
As Obama himself once jokingly said, “Whoever named me Hussein obviously never thought I might run for president someday.”
You threatened to punch me in the mouth. You glorified violence. “When the looting starts, shooting starts” and “If someone tried to use my religion against me … they’d be eating my fist.” That’s pretty unambiguous to me. Glorified violence.
“Saying he’s fine because he has Jewish relatives is bogus. It’s like saying Thomas Jefferson wasn’t a racist slaveholder because he had sexual relations with Sally Hemmings.”
Yes, Thomas Jefferson was a bigot. He’s the founder of the Democrat Party. The entire Democrat party, even through today, IS the party of bigotry. 200 years of bigotry, starting with blacks, then chinese exclusion, then japanese internment, and now it’s bigoted against religion, the middle class, and anyone who disagrees with them. Jefferson did only one good thing – the declaration of independence, as a young man in his 30’s or something, and then the rest of his life laid the framework for the awful, awful history of the Democrat party, including the KKK, Slavery, 3/5th compromise, Jim Crow laws, segregation, punitive and arbitrary crime bills, through Bill Clinton’s NAFTA and deals with china to send american’s jobs to mexico and China, and beyond. Thomas Jefferson is a utter disgrace to this county which is only partially rectified by the declaration of independence.
First, the person who equated looting with shooting is Trump, not me. Please point out anywhere that I said this. You won’t find it.
Second, if you think I threatened you, you obviously didn’t read what I said very carefully. And I apologized, so time for you to stop foaming at the mouth.
Third, I’m yielding. No more fighting from me. Disengaged.
Sabrina, I await your judgment. Happy to go along with any punishment if you think I glorified violence.
Any punishment will be worthwhile since I’ve basically gotten my point across: That we have some very sick, bigoted people who constantly pollute this board with stuff that has nothing to do with the Chicago housing market and who should be removed from the conversation.
Last, as for your point equating Jefferson with modern Democrats: LOL! Jefferson was an early and major advocate of states’ rights, which Republicans claimed as their talking point decades ago.
Parties change in 200 years, in case you didn’t know. The Republican party once elected a president (Ike) who was just fine with a 90% tax on the rich.
“Well- if you are buying a new home you DO want it to be on trend. Someone who is living there for decades may not update it because they don’t care, but if you are looking for your dream place, why settle for something that isn’t the dream?”
And if the trend sucks you’ll blindly follow it anyway? Sad, I’ll keep my cherry cabinets until something better than lame, cheap white comes along. Maybe longer since I actually like them, which is the point, not following trends.
Maybe longer since I actually like them, which is the point, not following trends.
Says the girl in her sad cerulean sweater fished out of the bargain bin.
But thanks for proving the “point” as you say.
“Even if the Trump Org has nothing to do with the condos themselves”
Given that this is true:
“The amenities are 5 star+ and amazing. I am sure most of you are familiar with the pool and spa and fitness facility, which means there is a lot you can do without going outside during the winter. Amenities also include access to room service, black car service, in-house maids, baby-sitters and dog walkers. There’s also 5 star quality concierges that can make a lot happen.”
It cannot be true that the Hotel Operator (currently the Trump Org) has nothing to do with the condos.
“You threatened to punch me in the mouth.”
He didn’t.
Unless you are implying that you go around IRL slurring jews to their face.
In which case, yeah, he did.
[NB: I am not saying you *do*; I am saying that *if* you do, then, yeah, you have an issue with Dan #2.]
You should see someone about that LDS.
“He’s the founder of the Democrat Party.”
Since there is no “Democrat Party” in 2020 USA, your point would be…what?
I can’t believe the post I have copied below was downvoted twice.
This is a real estate blog and I was sharing factual information about the building.
So ignorant to hate an inanimate object, which happens to be a beautiful landmark building that also employs a lot of people.
—————————————————————–
“If you are a highrise person — it is one of the best places to live IMO. Perfect proximity to the loop, river walk, lake, and river north restaurants.
The amenities are 5 star+ and amazing. I am sure most of you are familiar with the pool and spa and fitness facility, which means there is a lot you can do without going outside during the winter. Amenities also include access to room service, black car service, in-house maids, baby-sitters and dog walkers. There’s also 5 star quality concierges that can make a lot happen. In this building, you can literally live as if you personally employ a full-time housekeeper, cook, and driver.
Plus, you wouldn’t have to worry about maintaining a guest room and could have unlimited out of towners for a stay at once. I’d set up occasional overnight guests in hotel rooms.
Being at ground zero for protests would be a bummer, but I see that coming to an end when Trump is out of office.”
KK,
I upvoted what you said. I agree it’s a beautiful building and has lovely views. I’d consider living there, but my wife would never live somewhere with “His” name on it, and I can hardly blame her.
“cheap white comes along.”
painted white maple cabinets aren’t any cheaper that your cherry. while there is some cost savings in the maple vs cherry, there is a higher cost associated with painting them.
It cannot be true that the Hotel Operator (currently the Trump Org) has nothing to do with the condos.
They don’t own the condo building and have nothing to do with it. Yes, you have access to room service and all of that stuff from the hotel. So, no, they have nothing to do with the condos. The Board pays a fee to the Trump Organization to access the services, however.
“They don’t own the condo building”
Of course not.
“The Board pays a fee”
Every owner pays a fee, through the assessment, to the Hotel Operator, which happens to be, for now, the Trump Org.
Just like everyone who has a cable tv service makes a monthly contribution to support Fox News.
“And if the trend sucks you’ll blindly follow it anyway? Sad, I’ll keep my cherry cabinets until something better than lame, cheap white comes along.”
Selling is different than owning, Sid V.
When you sell, it’s not about YOUR preference. It’s about the buyer’s. And the buyers want the latest trends. This is why if you have a cherry kitchen and are trying to sell, some agents know it’s a detriment and they will present computer generated pictures showing it with the original cherry but also “painted” white so you can see what it would look like if you decided to paint them.
Of course, no buyer WANTS to paint them themselves. The seller should just hire Renovate to Sell guys and paint them, put on the quartz counter tops and get a quick sale.
Sellers should learn from flippers. It’s not emotional when you sell. It’s just business.
I would never, ever stay in a HYATT hotel. Ever. Anyone who does is morally derelict.
It’s not Trump’s fault anti-white racists are going bezerk or George Floyd died. 80 people were shot, 20 fatally in Chicago last weekend? Where were all the BLM losers then and prior? The BLM movement is a hate movement of virulent and immoral anti-white racism. They only come out of their caves to protest when they find a white person to blame. They DO NOT care about black lives, otherwise they’d protest against black on black murders.
It’s a scam, and all intelligent people are aware of it, and the normies are now too, thanks to all the hate and destruction.
JB is a racist, caught busted on tape with Blago. Only bigots do business with a Pritzker.
As much as I hate to ever agree with HH about anything, he does mention one thing that bothers me about the protests.
Black-on-black crime is horrific, with hundreds of blacks killed every year by other blacks in Chicago alone. I know there have been protests against this violence over the years, but I don’t recall the massive pushback like we’re seeing when a white cop kills an innocent black man.
If all black lives matter (and they definitely do, especially when it’s innocent people caught in the crossfire between gang members, as we often see), I’d like to see as big an effort to prevent black-on-black violence.
All that said, cop-on-civilian violence, when it’s obviously unnecessary and egregious, is an especially terrible violation of the country’s principles and always should be met with outrage. Whether it’s blacks or whites victimized and whether physical violence or some other unfair measure is taken.
I recently read a book written by a white man from Texas who was wrongfully imprisoned 25 years (1986-2011) for a murder he didn’t commit. The guilty party was eventually found and convicted. The author of the book was railroaded by a white prosecutor. Absolutely no racial element to the case, but as clear a violation of our societal codes as the Floyd murder.
“cop-on-civilian violence, when it’s obviously unnecessary and egregious”
See, this is still the wrong construct. It should be:
cop-on-civilian violence, EXCEPT when it’s obviously necessary and justifiable, is an especially terrible violation of the country’s principles
Anon,
Exactly right. Your edit is perfect.
Thanks.
“If all black lives matter (and they definitely do, especially when it’s innocent people caught in the crossfire between gang members, as we often see), I’d like to see as big an effort to prevent black-on-black violence.”
This is a false narrative. 84% of all white people are killed by other white people. So why call it black-on-black violence? Usually, you’re killed by someone of your own race.
And, yes, there have been protests, gofundme’s etc. against the violence in Chicago’s neighborhoods.
Additionally, perpetrators in black-on-black crime are actually arrested. That is not necessarily true when it’s the police. That’s the whole point of the Black Lives Matter movement. Is that there are no arrests. And often, even if there are arrests, there are no convictions.
In other crimes, there are arrests, convictions, jail terms.
Thanks, Sabrina. Point taken. Always happy to listen to constructive criticism of what I write here.
“Where were all the BLM losers then and prior?”
BLM is about police violence. Eric Gardner. And now George Floyd.
Always has been.
There are plenty of organizations committed to slowing and stopping the violence in Chicago.
There was a documentary made in 2011 about a group here called “The Interrupters” who try and stop the violence.
https://www.pbs.org/black-culture/shows/list/the-interrupters/
You can watch the movie on YouTube and Amazon Prime.
“Selling is different than owning, Sid V.
When you sell, it’s not about YOUR preference. It’s about the buyer’s. And the buyers want the latest trends. This is why if you have a cherry kitchen and are trying to sell, some agents know it’s a detriment and they will present computer generated pictures showing it with the original cherry but also “painted” white so you can see what it would look like if you decided to paint them.
Of course, no buyer WANTS to paint them themselves. The seller should just hire Renovate to Sell guys and paint them, put on the quartz counter tops and get a quick sale.
Sellers should learn from flippers. It’s not emotional when you sell. It’s just business.”
They have a name for folks like that – Choads. Idiots cant tell the difference between Millwork and Contractor grade pressboard casework, but as long as its white (Sounds kinda racist)
“Additionally, perpetrators in black-on-black crime are actually arrested.”
Link?
“Idiots cant tell the difference between Millwork and Contractor grade pressboard casework, but as long as its white (Sounds kinda racist)”
What are you even talking about?
Plenty of people have maple, oak, cherry cabinets. Easy to paint them white, gray, blue (whatever other color is trendy.) I’ve seen some lovely dark gray but most buyers are preferring white right now. The white kitchen has been “in” for at least 5 or 6 years. It will go “out” eventually. We’re starting to see the “mix” now of natural wood and white as buyers like the warmth the natural wood brings in.
It’s not cheap to repaint all the cabinets though.
It’s cheaper than replacing the cabinets, but it’s still going to cost you thousands of dollars to repaint if you hire someone good.
This is why the buyer doesn’t want to do it themselves. The sellers need to spend the money to do the updates. It will pay off in the sale.
Doesn’t anyone watch the HGTV shows on flipping and selling here? It’s pretty obvious that even just painting the cabinets can add thousands of dollars to the sales price.
“Link?”
Go read the newspaper. They talk about it every day. Subscribe to blockclubchicago.org to get the latest that is going on in the neighborhoods.
Go to jury duty when called. Be a juror. There are hundreds of jurors called every day over to California for those trials.
“Go read the newspaper. They talk about it every day. Subscribe to blockclubchicago.org to get the latest that is going on in the neighborhoods.
Go to jury duty when called. Be a juror. There are hundreds of jurors called every day over to California for those trials.”
So no link, just mindless drivel?
Here’s a start – https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2019/12/30/21043526/chicago-homicides-murders-2019-decline – looks like around 20%. You’d have to did a little deeper to find the stats for your claim but I’ll leave that to you since you’re the one making the claim.
But likely you wont and we’ll get some rambling nonsense
“What are you even talking about?”
I’m talking about the vast majority of buyers are idiots and only care if its “on trend” in shill speak.
The prefer shit particleboard plam casework in the white Vs something of quality.
“cop-on-civilian violence, EXCEPT when it’s obviously necessary and justifiable, is an especially terrible violation of the country’s principles”
I agree 100%, the only thing I’d add is that we’ve delegated this authority to them (police and Local Gov) and while everyone is talking about disbanding the police, the Karens will be out in full force complaining about every minor infraction, demanding someone do something
Rinse repeat
looks like around 20%.
You’re right, the cops DO suck at their jobs.
“Additionally, perpetrators in black-on-black crime are actually arrested. That is not necessarily true when it’s the police. That’s the whole point of the Black Lives Matter movement. Is that there are no arrests. And often, even if there are arrests, there are no convictions. In other crimes, there are arrests, convictions, jail terms.”
I’m gonna call out stupidity when I see it. These George Floyd protests have been full of it – coming from friends, family members and co-workers. The ‘no snitch’ rule is why crimes go unsolved. They hate police and they won’t cooperate. really, it’s that simple.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/08/07/chicago-gun-violence-homicide-clearance/925630002/
Why Chicago PD can’t get more residents to identify gun violence suspects
CHICAGO – This year, Romell Young got into a fistfight on the street near his home on the city’s West Side, pummeling a man in a brawl that was spurred by an argument he can’t even remember.
Young does, however, have a scar to remind him what happened after he gave his rival a whupping: The man returned with a gun and shot him in the leg.
At the hospital, police asked Young, 23, to tell them who shot him, but he said he declined to name the assailant. Weeks after the April incident, Young – who has a long arrest record and a felony conviction for drug possession – was charged with illegal possession of a firearm after police said they caught him on the street with a weapon.
“I believe karma is (vengeful), you feel me?” said Young, explaining to USA TODAY in a jailhouse interview in July why he didn’t name the man who shot him. “One day you’re going to reap what you sow.”
Young’s no-snitching outlook sheds light on the complicated dynamic in Chicago’s neighborhoods plagued by gun violence, one in which few residents are willing to help police and even fewer perpetrators are held accountable.
Over the weekend, at least 72 people were shot in the city, including 12 fatally, but police did not record a single arrest in any of the incidents.
To finish my last post, the “perpetrators in black-on-black crime” ARE NOT being arrested.
As for the police not getting arrested, that’s simply NOT true. Everyone agrees there was excessive force with Mr. Floyd, and the cops, within days, were all arrested, with the last arrests tonight. Everyone agrees on this. There were a total of 9 unarmed black men killed by police last year (2019) compared to 17 whites. This is according to the washington post. Statistically, it’s nothing. And in nearly all of those cases, officers were charged, and most were sent to prison.
Where is Jason Van Dyke now?
“The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.”
Now if you want to talk about social justice issues, and there are merit to them, sure. But despite what you read the echo chamber, lets be honest here about what is really happening.
“Everyone agrees there was excessive force with Mr. Floyd, and the cops, within days, were all arrested,”
After protests in nearly every major city in America.
And 3 of the police were only arrested TODAY.
In Baltimore, a couple of years ago, the cops were never convicted. In Louisville, there haven’t been any charges against those police who killed that young woman in her own home.
Of course, convictions are all up to the jury. And, yes, many, many people were worried that Jason Van Dyke would NOT be convicted because, Homedelete, that’s what happens ALL THE TIME. Throughout US history.
Wake up.
You’re right HD. There are never any arrests with black-on-black crime. No one is ever arrested in the city of Chicago in those crimes.
Ever.
“while everyone is talking about disbanding the police”
No one is talking about “disbanding” them. But maybe getting rid of the tanks and other military weapons many departments have might be a start. Leave that to the military and the federal government.
Please go read JohnnyU. I beg you. Educate yourself.
Just another reminder: Black Lives Matter has NOTHING to do with black-on-black violence.
Here’s the link to educate yourself: https://www.blacklivesmatterchicago.com/
“Please go read JohnnyU. I beg you. Educate yourself“
Ok Karen.
So no link?
“No one is talking about “disbanding” them.”
No there is some of that, and not just among the concern trolls.
I wonder if HH realizes how he’s emulating the Nazi regime of the 1930s by citing social movements he’s against and then saying, in so many words, that “the Jews are running them.”
Oldest trick in the anti-semite’s book. Pretend there’s some sort of Jewish “cabal” of puppet masters directing any kind of social or political movement you criticize. Hitler said he saw Jews behind the regimes in both Moscow and in the U.S.. He said FDR was a tool of the Jews (funny in retrospect since many Jews now dislike FDR because he didn’t do enough to save European Jews from the Holocaust).
I can tell all of you that I’m Jewish and (not surprisingly) know a lot of Jews. There are Jewish people on all sides of the spectrum, and they seldom agree with each other. They definitely aren’t running BLM, as far as I can tell, and it’s insulting to black people to suggest that blacks need someone else to run an anti-racist movement.
“There are Jewish people on all sides of the spectrum, and they seldom agree with each other. They definitely aren’t running BLM”
“White men! White women! The swastika is calling you. The sacred and ancient symbol of your race, since the beginning of time. The Jew is using The Black as muscle against you. And you are left there helpless. Well, what are you going to do about it, Whitey? Just sit there? Of course not! You are going to join with us. The members of the American Socialist White Peoples’ Party. An organization of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you!”
” I pledge to Adolf Hitler, the immortal leader of our race. And to the order for which he stands. One great cause, sacred and invincible.”
“Hey, what’s going on?!”
“Ah, those bums won their court case, so they’re marching today.”
“What bums?”
“The Fucking Nazi Party!”
“Umph, Illinois Nazis! Umph.”
“I hate Illinois Nazis.”
Now I will forever think of tehHof as a homeless man’s Henry Gibson.
“…Where is Jason Van Dyke now?… But despite what you read the echo chamber, lets be honest here about what is really happening.”
Thanks for reminder. I’m guessing hd hopes trump will pardon or commute JVD’s ‘overly harsh’ sentence?
JVD, a S. Hinsdale HS & St Xav. grad, was convicted in Jan ’19 of IL state charges of 2nd degreee murder & 16 counts of aggravated battery w firearm. JVD’s not at Stateville for state convictions but’s been serving time in more club like settings in Connecticut & Maryland. JVD’s sched. for release in Feb 2022. JVD was one of 400 CPD officers out of 12,000 serving who’d received 20 or more civilian complaints incl 10 for excessive force & 2 involving firearm – none resulted in discipline.
17 yr old Laquon McDonald was conducting his crime spree of trespassing/allegedly attempting to break into vehicles while high on PCP in an uninhabited manufacturing district near 41st & Pulaski while carrying 3″ pocket knife. Video showed while LMc was walking away from police (8 squad cars on scene given it’s a low crime district) when JVD began shooting Laquon McDonald 16 times.
( http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/30/opinions/louis-rahm-emanuel-chicago-shooting/ ).
JVD began shooting less than 30 seconds after arriving on scene, 6 seconds after exiting his vehicle). 9 shots hit LMc’s in back and he was shot more while lying on ground. LMc’s knife was found folded up.http://www.theherald-news.com/2015/12/05/chicago-cops-versions-of-laquan-mcdonald-killing-at-odds-with-video/aneg9zn/?page=1
Does hd believe in ‘We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator w cerain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness….”? Would an impaired 17 yr old Hinsdalean been executed under same circumstances – or was there something different, something special abt LMc that made JVD see his decision as justified? If JVD had shot a 17 yr old impaired Hinsdalean would he be getting released in 37 mos?
“ Says the girl in her sad cerulean sweater fished out of the bargain bin.”
My cabinets are relatively high end and will last decades. Nothing bargain bin about them and people who conflate quality and trendiness are fools. And nothing says bargain bin to me like a painted white kitchen, and yes I know some people sadly paint good quality wood. It may well happen to my own kitchen some day, but not on my watch.
As for buying finishes to sell, living with a place just how you want it is the ultimate real estate luxury and I’ll leave that sort of thinking to trifling sorts who would probably be better off renting. While I would never want that place that looked like Versailles featured on CC recently, I respect people who have a personal vision and follow it 10X over those who compromise by following trends they don’t even like.
“ 84% of all white people are killed by other white people.” and what’s the stat if you remove domestic crime? What about murder between strangers in the commission of a felony such as robbery? What about the chances of a white person being killed by a black person or vice versa as a ratio. What about murder rates of perpetrators by race as a percentage of the populace regardless of the victim’s color?
You’re just cherry picking one stat and if you look at the preponderance of evidence your pollyanna narrative falls apart. You’d have more credibility acknowledging black on anyone crime (and murder is just the tip of the iceberg) is a huge problem that dwarfs law enforcement’s shortcomings unless perhaps you’re a criminal and digging into the economic and cultural reasons why.
Delete HH’s jewish nonsense. it’s got nothing to do with the riots, the BLM movement in Chicago, chicago real estate prices, or the apparent fleeing to the suburbs that is happening as we speak according to realtors I know.
“Just another reminder: Black Lives Matter has NOTHING to do with black-on-black violence. ”
But it should Because according to wapo, 9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year, compared to 19 white men. It’s a statistical blip. It’s nothing.
“Of course, convictions are all up to the jury. And, yes, many, many people were worried that Jason Van Dyke would NOT be convicted because, Homedelete, that’s what happens ALL THE TIME. Throughout US history. ”
So what you’re saying is that you don’t trust a jury of your peers? SO the baltimore cops who had 12 citizens review their case, they were guilty even though the 12 people who saw the whole case believed otherwise? Same with Rodney King? Or any of the other ones?
You would rather have a politically appointed or elected judge – rather than a jury – decide the fates of those accused instead? Really? Because the mob demanding racial justice doesn’t need to see both sides, they just need a guilty verdict, jury be damned? I get everyone is (irrationally) angry, but, that’s some serious Iran/North Korea type stuff here to get angry when a jury of 12 concerned citizens finds police not guilty after a months long trial.
““No one is talking about “disbanding” them.”
No there is some of that, and not just among the concern trolls.”
Sabrina, you’re showing your age. The youtube and tiktok crowd is all about disbanding the police and defunding them. I’ve got (former) ‘friends’ going crazy posting this stuff all over the internet. On insane person I know posts that instead of the police, we should have ‘crisis response teams’ to de-escalate tensions between the robber and the victim, or the two dealers fighting over their corners, or the angry cartel members extracting street justice on their own. They actually believe this stuff. They want the police in high crime neighborhoods to be like cops in the suburbs – hands off, laid back, and rarely seen. None of which is true of course, because these urban antifa members don’t go to the suburbs. Try brandishing a gun in the suburbs and see how many dozens of cops in SWAT gear show up on your front door step in less than 10 minutes time. They want the cops to leave the most dangerous gang filled and crime and povery filled neighborhoods and replace them with de-escalation teams. Just completely insane stuff here. It’s real, it’s every where, certainly a minority position, but a very very loud and vocal one among kids today. That’s what 30 years of a liberal brainwashing type environment does to people. I mean you control the schools, academia, the unions, the corporate world, the cities, the media, the news, everything. But despite all of this, your system is still systemically racist, and yet, ONLY you can ix it? Nonsense.
“So what you’re saying is that you don’t trust a jury of your peers?”
Yes. Please educate yourself about why the black community is so angry and demanding justice. For 400 years they’ve rarely gotten any.
When that jury convicted, there was genuine surprise in the city.
“You’d have more credibility acknowledging black on anyone crime (and murder is just the tip of the iceberg) is a huge problem that dwarfs law enforcement’s shortcomings unless perhaps you’re a criminal and digging into the economic and cultural reasons why.”
The problem is that you don’t want to acknowledge the legitimacy of what happened to George Floyd (and Eric Gardner, among others). So you deflect with “but black on black crime” which has NOTHING to do with the police murdering George Floyd. Absolutely nothing.
So stop deflecting. Look at the problem head on.
As I keep saying, there are plenty of groups in Chicago, and other cities, that are trying to address the black on black crime. Also the white on white crime. And the Hispanic on Hispanic crime. Plenty of groups, therapists, professors etc.
That is NOT what is being protested around the nation right now.
Please educate yourself so you can be a part of the solution.
“And nothing says bargain bin to me like a painted white kitchen, and yes I know some people sadly paint good quality wood. It may well happen to my own kitchen some day, but not on my watch.”
Gosh, I guess no one told home remodelers and interior designers who are constantly buying the basic wood cabinets and painting them. You really don’t get grey, white or black cabinets without painting them.
Popular white color is Decorator’s White, by the way.
Oh- saw an interesting episode on HGTV where they were trying to save some money on the rehab because they came across an expensive plumbing fix and they decided not to go with the more carved cabinets, went with the more basic face, and literally saved $10,000. Wow.
Long time lurker here who has found the comments and observations about Chicago real estate and the city here often useful, funny and informative if a bit petty and precious about trends and new builds. Its crazy to me that the whole time I was apparently on a QAnon site populated by laughably ignorant trolls providing deep scholarship around issues of violence, poverty, crime and kitchen cabinets. After 4 years I think all reasonable people have come to the realization that persuasion, evidence, logic are all useless tools when dealing with the Trump basket of deplorables and the only rational action is to disengage. See you in November.
“The problem is that you don’t want to acknowledge the legitimacy of what happened to George Floyd (and Eric Gardner, among others). So you deflect with “but black on black crime” which has NOTHING to do with the police murdering George Floyd. Absolutely nothing. ”
If you want to talk about the legitimacy of all of this, then you need to talk about it using science and data. And that science and data reflects – even according to WaPo’s database – that the 9 deaths of unarmed african-americans by the police last year is a statistical blip. It’s all the big lie; and anecdotally, the people I know who buy into this lie tend to be the most emotionally driven. It’s like 1938 all over again, but instead of only breaking the windows of businesses owned by jews, their breaking the windows of anyone who is a capitalist, regardless of the color of their skin. and then blaming these very same store owners – many of whom are immigrants of color – for being part of the fake systemically racist system. I’m actually surprised HH isn’t out there with antifa smashing windows, maybe he is, he’s doing his own version of kristallnacht.
“Systemic police racism is a myth, the data does not bear it out.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-myth-of-systemic-police-racism-11591119883
“When that jury convicted, there was genuine surprise in the city.”
No one was surprised he was convicted. Not a single person. We were all surprised they didn’t give him a life sentence with the expectation that he would be shived in jail the first week or two he was there. That’s what people like you wanted for him.
“No one is talking about “disbanding” them.”
Shocked that Sabrina isn’t addressing another incorrect statement. A hallmark of a Karen
Maybe she should educate her/himself?
” you need to talk about it using science and data”
You then cite a Heather Mac op-ed. She makes up numbers when it suits her. She’s about half right and half wackadoo in most of what she says.
“Gosh, I guess no one told home remodelers and interior designers who are constantly buying the basic wood cabinets and painting them. You really don’t get grey, white or black cabinets without painting them.”
Most people are sheep. Its especially sad to see in $1MM+ properties that no one has the balls to be different and that designers don’t have the guts to incorporate woods beauty into their designs. I guess its easier to steal the same designs from Dwell. I’d probably have a drabber if one of these clones did something with Walnut (dark), Quited Maple, Waterfall Bubinga, Bocote, etc
Sid’s point is in the 10 ring
“Oh- saw an interesting episode on HGTV where they were trying to save some money on the rehab because they came across an expensive plumbing fix and they decided not to go with the more carved cabinets, went with the more basic face, and literally saved $10,000. Wow.”
So you’re one of the people that believes that these shows are real.
Things are making a lot more sense now
“So you’re one of the people that believes that these shows are real.”
JohnnyU, they actually ARE doing the renovations. That’s not a computer generation.
Get over yourself. I’m not talking about House Hunters, which everyone knows they have already bought and/or rented the property when they go look at the 3 properties. I know people who have been on that show! It’s fun.
But that’s so 2005. Their true popular shows are the renovation shows.
Also, if anyone thinks flipping is easy and anyone can do it, it’s interesting to see that new show where Tarek helps the newbie flippers because they are SO BAD at picking out the finishes and dealing with contractors. Lol. They have no idea what is in and what will sell. AT ALL.
In one case, they actually put in two different marble counter tops in the kitchen (two different colors) and it was noticeable. They refused to change it out ahead of putting it on the market because of the “cost.” This was a house they were listing in California for $800,000.
It ended up selling anyway, apparently.
Lol.
“No one was surprised he was convicted.”
Um…where were you? I guess in the suburbs you didn’t have to leave your work early on the day of the verdict because they thought he wouldn’t be convicted and there would be huge riots.
Okay dude.
Go gaslight somewhere else HD.
Stop with the “breaking windows” bullshit HD.
Go educate yourself. Seriously. Please. For the love of god and your children. Don’t pass this racism onto the next generation.
By the way, the FBI has arrested 3 far-right guys for trying to incite violence at Las Vegas protests. These were NOT antifa.
I’m sure there will be some far-left arrests too.
DOJ and FBI also saying some foreign elements are stirring up trouble as well.
And why not? Perfect opportunity to invade peaceful protests and cause trouble.
“Um…where were you? I guess in the suburbs you didn’t have to leave your work early on the day of the verdict because they thought he wouldn’t be convicted and there would be huge riots.”
I work in the middle of the Loop (well, when I go to my office, which I did at the time and perhaps will do regularly again by July, I’m super busy just working here at the moment), and I didn’t leave early. Some did, maybe as an excuse, maybe because they thought people were spoiling for a riot (it was tense downtown). Those people live in the burbs, I do not. I thought there was an off-chance Van Dyke might get off, because juries do weird things sometimes, but the coverage to that point was strongly suggesting he was likely to be convicted, and that’s what I expected.
More significantly, as this is a RE blog, I hate white cabinets, and don’t care that they are on trend (although they may be passe by now). I did paint my cabinets before selling and suspect it was worth it, but I was happy to buy a place with nice cherry cabinets. When I redo my place (which I am doing piecemeal, so far just painting but my next project is the fireplace, which does not have a TV above it!), it will be to my personal taste. I’d rather pay less for something I need to redo than be stuck with whatever was trendy in ’18 (when I last bought) at the highest prices, especially since my taste and ’18 trendiness are not identical. I have a firm sense of what I want in my mind.
Yeah, yeah, Mills want on trend or whatever and won’t do renos. Seems like poor priorities to me if true (I suspect Mills are diverse like the rest of us in their taste and preferences so it’s not totally true). When I first bought at 27 I liked what I liked and wasn’t focused on being trendy or having the most high end appliances ever.
“JohnnyU, they actually ARE doing the renovations. That’s not a computer generation.
Get over yourself. I’m not talking about House Hunters, which everyone knows they have already bought and/or rented the property when they go look at the 3 properties. I know people who have been on that show! It’s fun.
But that’s so 2005. Their true popular shows are the renovation shows.“
I didn’t say the Reno’s were fake, but you are an idiot if you think any $ figures they throw around are real.
“Yeah, yeah, Mills want on trend or whatever and won’t do renos. Seems like poor priorities to me if true (I suspect Mills are diverse like the rest of us in their taste and preferences so it’s not totally true). When I first bought at 27 I liked what I liked and wasn’t focused on being trendy or having the most high end appliances ever.“
Which is hilarious as supposedly the value authenticity above all.
Hope you do something unique that you like, on trend is boring
“No one is talking about “disbanding” them.”
Shocked that Sabrina isn’t addressing another incorrect statement. A hallmark of a Karen
Maybe she should educate her/himself?
http://citypages.com/news/minneapolis-city-council-members-consider-disbanding-the-police/570993291
Please go read SabrinaI I beg you. Educate yourself. It’s getting embarrassing the way you lash out when someone dare challenges your feelings, especially when you are categorically wrong
” I hate white cabinets,”
Racist.
“Stop with the “breaking windows” bullshit HD.
Go educate yourself. Seriously. Please. For the love of god and your children. Don’t pass this racism onto the next generation.”
Again, look at the graffiti all over the place. ACAB. All cops are Bas….rds and all capitalists are basta…rds….
Watch videos of interviews of the rioters. They want to overthrow capitalism. They blame evil racist white people for all of society’s ills. I’m not just fermenting racism and hate. The suburban moms protesting don’t realize why the other half of the people are at the protest. Their crazy list of demands range from the naive, like defund the police, to the insane, like overthrow capitalism, to the nefarious and evil, like kill all white people.
THE RIOTERS ARE NOT THE PROTESTERS!
My god man.
Go educate yourself.
“THE RIOTERS ARE NOT THE PROTESTERS!
My god man.
Go educate yourself.”
You keep believing that all you want. But when protestors stay out past curfew, in a crowd full of rioters…it’s really difficult to tell the difference between the peaceful protestors and the rioters.
Sabrina is making the ‘both sides’ argument. There’s two sides to the mob throwing rocks and lighting fires.
“2) Mr. Floyd was a rotten human being. George Floyd was arrested and convicted of robbing and beating a pregnant woman after breaking into her home in a home invasion with several other men. He wanted money and drugs and when she didn’t have either, he pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He left Texas after being released from prison, and moved to MN “to start a new life”.”
WTF does this matter?
I don’t give a shit if he was resisting previously. The “officer” had total control of the situation and Mr Floyd was complying. There is absolutely zero excuse for the “officer” to have continued to hold him in that position
The police are supposed to be professionals, this is the anthesis of professional police work.
“The white cop wasn’t racist, he had a Vietnamese wife”
He had TWO wives??
The one who publicly filed for divorce is Hmong, and Laotian by birth nationality.
” There is absolutely zero excuse for the “officer” to have continued to hold him in that position
The police are supposed to be professionals, this is the anthesis of professional police work.”
Yes, and people are outraged. It was excessive force, definitely. One minute, two minute, sure. 8 minutes? Too much. Was the officer trained to do this? Yes, he’s probably done this a thousand times before and no one had died. We need to hear the police officers side of the story to learn why it went on for 8 minutes.
But as facts, data and science show: Mr. Floyd died of a heart attack from mixing opioids and amphetamines while having an underlying health condition. The stress of the arrest was a contributing factor but not the cause. He was not asphyxiated. He also had COVID, so technically, this is a coronavirus death, and counts in the COVID death statistics.
“” There is absolutely zero excuse for the “officer” to have continued to hold him in that position”
Well that’s the issue now isn’t it? You weren’t there, neither was I. The autopsy determined he did not die from asphyxiation. So, that cop was NOT applying deadly force on the neck. In fact, he actually looked bored, like he was in a simple holding pattern. Floyd died high on two dangerous drugs of a heart attack, he also had COVID. The narrative that the cop was a white racist supremacist choking Mr. Floyd with his knee is FALSE. The cop’s wife was a Hmong woman.
PS I see Sabrina is censoring, that’s her choice, but it’s a cowardly move.
“No one is talking about “disbanding” them.”
Mayor Lightfoot was asked about it:
“Videos and photos of alleged police abuse that have spread like wildfire on social media have emboldened those who want to “de-fund” the Chicago Police Department, remove officers from Chicago Public Schools and spend the money on social programs.
“Lightfoot wasn’t having it.
“…
“After the looting and mayhem that has ravaged Chicago in recent days, Lightfoot said Friday it makes no sense at all to de-fund the police.
““In talking to people all over the city about the effects of this week, what I’ve heard from people in neighborhoods is they want more police protection — not less,” she said.”
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2020/6/5/21281684/mayor-lori-lightfoot-fire-chicago-police-officers-who-flipped-off-protesters-covered-nametags-badges
I know some commenters here are physicians but no one has rebutted the above claims that suggest that this was a “natural” death due to underlying medical conditions, so to clarify:
1. Cardiopulmonary arrest is not a “heart attack”, it is a somewhat meaningless term describing cessation of heart beat and respiration–technically we pretty much all die of this. The issue is what causes the arrest. Heart attack is a myocardial infarction–interruption of blood flow to the heart with resulting heart muscle injury–no evidence of that here.
2. COVID19 infection 2 months ago, no evidence of pneumonia or cardiac injury, this an incidental finding of past infection and no evidence that it played a role in his death.
3. Substance use—opioids, methamphetamine, nicotine. Again no role that he died of overdose or intoxication, he had only minutes before been independently functioning.
4. Preexisting heart and coronary artery disease, may have predisposed to arrhythmia but again no evidence of acute MI.
In short, while there is disagreement regarding the primary cause of death— asphyxia vs arrhythmia brought on by stress in a predisposed person, it really does not matter. Legally the same way the getaway driver is charged with murder even if he did not kill someone during a robbery, the same way that snatching a purse from a person who then dies from a heart attack attributable to the stress can lead to manslaughter/murder charges, the same here. If the police intervention—neck compression/chest and back compression for 9 minutes in a handcuffed person directly or indirectly leads to death AND the interventions are neither necessary, required or legal then the police officers can and should be held liable. Any reasonable interpretation of the video with both Mr Floyd and concerned on lookers making it clear that he was experiencing distress while the police demonstrated complete indifference make it very clear that this was a crime.
“I know some commenters here are physicians but no one has rebutted the above claims that suggest that this was a “natural” death due to underlying medical conditions, so to clarify:”
So the death certificate, which doesn’t even list asphyxia as a contributory cause, is suddenly meaningless, and we should ignore the heavy drug use, the coronavirus, the heart disease…that’s all irrelevant. The mob needs justice.
Sounds like somebody is lying to themselves about all of this.
“Legally the same way the getaway driver is charged with murder even if he did not kill someone during a robbery, the same way that snatching a purse from a person who then dies from a heart attack attributable to the stress can lead to manslaughter/murder charges, the same here. ”
The getaway driver is charged with something called felony murder, and this actually hurts your argument, because felony murder is strongly disfavored these days, because it punishes people for crimes they did not commit; and no one is charged with manslaughter or murder if they the victim dies of a heart attack after snatching their purse. At least not in IL.
Again, no one disputes that 9 minutes seems excessive, in light of what we know today, but that did not cause his death, the arrest itself was the contributing factor. These facts, using data and science from the corner’s autopsy report. It’s hard to argue with that. And if you argue with the facts, you are a science denier.
“AND the interventions are neither necessary, required or legal”
Right. So what happened before? I guess according to the anti-white racist narrative, this cop just wanted to kill the guy on the ground because rayyyycism or something.
Prior to the arrest Mr. Floyd, high as a kite on drugs, refused to get into the police car and resisted.
George Floyd was arrested and convicted in Houston of robbing and beating a pregnant woman after breaking into her home in a home invasion with several other men. He wanted money and drugs and when she didn’t have either, he pointed a gun at her pregnant stomach. He left Texas after being released from prison, and moved to MN “to start a new life”.
Mr. Floyd was a rotten human being. An immoral narcissist scumbag. Where did he ever show he was repentant to his horrible criminal life? He was high on two very dangerous drugs, resisting arrest and making a complete ass of himself and disturbing everyone else’s lives with his dumb MF selfishness. Now look what the dumb narcissist did, caused BILLIONS in damages and cost other people their lives! Dumb idiot, had no concern for others, just his damn self.
“So the death certificate, which doesn’t even list asphyxia as a contributory cause, is suddenly meaningless”
C’mon, counselor. That’s not a good faith argument, even in response to the conclusionary statement (which includes a misstatement/misrepresentation/misapplication about the MN felony murder statute) you responded to.
The upgrade of the charge to 2d degree murder is a little questionable, given the statute:
“Whoever does … the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree … (1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting”
Ellison is reaching, imo.
3d degree does require a finding that the act of restraint was also a felony:
“Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree”
Kneeling on someones neck for almost 9 minutes is “eminently dangerous” and the refusal to relent when asked by a colleague evinces the “depraved mind”. So it becomes a question of causation, and, while the coroner’s determination is entitled to significant deference, it is an opinion, not a fact, and the factual causation should be determined in a court by the judge (or, very unlikely here, a jury).
“3d degree does require”
missed a not: 3d degree does NOT require
anon(tfo), other than your attack on me, overall a very factual and intelligent post. You could probably find the restraint was a felony. He is going to argue that this was his training to try and explain away the 9 minutes. He better have a good excuse.
” So it becomes a question of causation, and, while the coroner’s determination is entitled to significant deference, it is an opinion, not a fact, and the factual causation should be determined in a court by the judge (or, very unlikely here, a jury).”
It’s a fact with the judge or judge to decide the credibility of it. Even though the cause of death is a medical opinion, it’s still a factual element of the case, with credibility to be determined by the finder of fact.
3rd degree murder seemed about right to me – unless he can show a good reason why he needed it to do it for 9 minutes, and if he can show that the 9 minute was part of his training, and that the 9 minutes did not significantly contribute to his death. The drugs in his system – hard drugs too. There’s video out there of drugs falling out of his pocket when he was first put on the ground too. It’s all over the internet. That’s pretty damning for his case, I think. You mix uppers and downers together when you’re in your 40’s and have heart disease? That’s really risky and stupid and makes me really think twice about how much causation there was with the knee on the neck. Again, excesive, unless he can show otherwise, or that it was his training.
There’s a 50/50 chance he’ll be let off because the mob cannot control facts, science and data. But he’ll never work as a cop again.
“So what happened before? I guess according to the anti-white racist narrative, this cop just wanted to kill the guy on the ground because rayyyycism or something.”
There is video footage from the convenience store which doesn’t show a struggle. He was obeying orders.
The young woman who recorded the murder with her phone is heard saying, “you’re going to kill him.” Even a 17 year old knows what murder looks like.
Kudos to GenZ. They are amazing and have their heads on straight.
And HH, it doesn’t matter what Mr. Floyd’s character was. At all. Irrelevant to another human being putting his knee on his neck for 9 minutes.
“Sounds like somebody is lying to themselves about all of this.”
By your argument HD, the Nazis never killed Anne Frank either.
“PS I see Sabrina is censoring, that’s her choice, but it’s a cowardly move.”
I remove posts from the racists, sexists, homophobes, anti-Semites who post that garbage here.
We all know who he is.
And just a reminder, he doesn’t live in Chicago. And never has.
Sabrina,
Why do you tolerate HH’s anti-semitism being posted year after year? I’m thinking of starting a petition to ban him.
The conservative stuff doesn’t bother me. Right wingers have a right to their opinions. But racism/anti-semitism crosses a barrier that shouldn’t be crossed.
Please let me know what you think.
Thanks.
“Why do you tolerate HH’s anti-semitism being posted year after year? I’m thinking of starting a petition to ban him.”
I’ve banned him many times in the past Dan #2. Many, many times.
For some reason, in whatever town he lives in, he crawls out from under his rock every so often to post his drivel here. I’m assuming it will pick up even more as we head into the election, just like in 2016.
I’ve been removing his posts.
Thanks, Sabrina.
I have no idea what it takes to ban someone from a technical perspective. I suppose there’s no way to keep them from coming back.
But thanks for trying.
Dan
“No one is talking about “disbanding” them.”
https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/city-council-announces-intention-to-disband-minneapolis-police-department
“Again, excesive, unless he can show otherwise, or that it was his training”
Of course it was part of his training. Again, the autopsy from Hennepin County coroner stated Drugged Floyd did not die from asphyxiation.
Over 100 Minnesota law enforcement officers attended a 2012 conference organized by the Israeli consulate in which Israeli police trained them. Israeli forces often use the knee-on-neck restraint on Palestinians. Israel has been training law enforcement officers around the US for many years
https://blog.amnestyusa.org/middle-east/with-whom-are-many-u-s-police-departments-training-with-a-chronic-human-rights-violator-israel/
OK Dan?
“Why do you tolerate HH’s anti-semitism being posted year after year? I’m thinking of starting a petition to ban him.”
No doubt he is highly offensive and I’ve argued before for keeping him here just on the basis that I need to know how the extremists are thinking. Let me take another stab at this from a slightly different angle. Let’s just say for the sake of argument that you don’t want to see Trump get re-elected. Well, you better know what the Trump supporters are latching onto so that you can defuse it. For instance, if I didn’t pay attention to people on the far right I would not know that calls for “defunding the police”, whatever that means, is going to be the reason that some people in the center might vote for Trump. As I always explain to my friends on the left…if you don’t want to see Trump re-elected then don’t create your own straw men that the right will take advantage of. But in order to avoid that mistake you need to keep your ear to the ground so you know when the mistake is near.
Interesting that Helmet-head is slamming Israel using the perspective of Amnesty International!
Many Trumpites support Israel (mostly from perspective of the Religious right/Evangelical communities) but also are supportive of white supremacist/anti-semitic views in US (Charlottesville, e.g.).
But Helmet’s brand of anti-semitism seems to include being anti-Israel (normally the province of the far left, who give little credence to the right of Israelis to defend themselves).
Yes, Israeli soldiers do make mistakes, but are used to dealing with suicide bombers who are out to kill them and do mass killings of civilians–a very different situation than when dealing with someone who has allegedly passed a bad check and is already in handcuffs.
” Well, you better know what the Trump supporters are latching onto so that you can defuse it. ”
~ Trump supporters are not latching on to any of HH’s ideas. This is a lie.
” For instance, if I didn’t pay attention to people on the far right I would not know that calls for “defunding the police”, whatever that means, is going to be the reason that some people in the center might vote for Trump. As I always explain to my friends on the left…if you don’t want to see Trump re-elected then don’t create your own straw men that the right will take advantage of.”
~ Defund the police is not a strawman. You best pay attention to your own side. Most people I know who call themselves Democrats aren’t really democrats. They just hate Trump, but on policy decisions, they lean slightly right. They aren’t really aware of the radical revolution being pushed on their own side, which is how Joe Biden got elected – he was the only guy who wasn’t threatening to burn down the entire system to destroy Trump.
Wow, Gary I didn’t realize how sleazy and extreme you are. You nothing more than a secret sympathizer with the most violent and hateful element any of us as seen our lifetimes. They just destroyed the city, cost innocent humans their lives and jobs — and you support them. It’s evil.
How can you hold such heinous ideas and then turn around with some warped smile to a potential seller: “please sign here, the is the rep agreement”. You are one seriously deep creep. Many like you have now revealed the hate and violence that’s in under the surface them.
We can’t “disband the police”, that’s a loser white person’s idea. If you cared about black people, you’d listen to the black aldermen like 9th ward alderman Anthony Beale. He is calling for MORE POLICE PROTECTION, and Lightfoot has acknowledged these aldermen.
Lightfoot’s problem are the warped cretins like Gary and Mary Dempsey, all these self-segregated whites who don’t know anything about minorities except their extremism from some classroom or dubious Leftist hate blog.
I will listen to Antony Beale, not Gary. And JAH, sorry buddy, but it is #BLM itself (not me) that condemns the abuses of brown Palestinians (not all “suicide bombers”, liar), so use your stupid antisemitism slur on them, it won’t work on anybody. It’s meaningless because of the hypocrisy of Dan and JAH. Oh, and Sabrina should “ban Dan #2” just like HD called for. He was advocating violence which is more extreme than just having an opinion about our city and current events. Cheers!
https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2020/6/1/21276893/chicago-protests-looting-aldermen-national-guard-troops-protect-neighborhoods
“~ Defund the police is not a strawman. You best pay attention to your own side. Most people I know who call themselves Democrats aren’t really democrats. They just hate Trump, but on policy decisions, they lean slightly right. They aren’t really aware of the radical revolution being pushed on their own side, which is how Joe Biden got elected – he was the only guy who wasn’t threatening to burn down the entire system to destroy Trump.”
I guess calling things that are actually happening a strawman is willful ignorance or a general misunderstanding of the term
Its kinda funny seeing the far left self immolate
The Dems aren’t homogeneous, they’re a loose confederacy with some common goals comprised of 2 large main fractions (That themselves consist of subgroups)
-Corporatists/Never Trump GOP defectors/Gov Employees
-Millenials/GenZ/Cry Bullies
Simplified – its the Clinton and Sanders wings
Right now its interesting to see the Clinton wing kowtowing to the Crybullies. I think its a ploy to make sure this very vocal minority stays engaged for the election. The reality is the Sanders wing doesn’t have that support, else he would have been the Dem Candidate and young people generally don’t vote
There are some from the Clinton wing that are voicing some concerns, they will be the first ones purged by the purity Brownshirts
Its going to be an interesting shitshow
” They just destroyed the city, cost innocent humans their lives and jobs — and you support them. It’s evil.”
Who exactly do you think I support and where did I say I support them?
“I guess calling things that are actually happening a strawman is willful ignorance or a general misunderstanding of the term”
When I say that people on the left create their own strawmen what I mean is that they take extreme positions that are easily attacked by folks on the right, making them look dumb. Not at all that far from the actual definition of a strawman: “A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.”
“Trump supporters are not latching on to any of HH’s ideas. This is a lie.”
You don’t think there is overlap between what HH believes and what some Trump supporters believe? From HH:
“The autopsy determined he did not die from asphyxiation. So, that cop was NOT applying deadly force on the neck. In fact, he actually looked bored, like he was in a simple holding pattern. Floyd died high on two dangerous drugs of a heart attack, he also had COVID.”
And, BTW, I’m not someone who despises all or even most Trump supporters and throws them in a single bucket. There is a long spectrum and people lie along all parts of the spectrum and move up and down it depending on the issue.
My only point is that people like HH give us insight into what alternate realities exist out there and what might become battleground issues in November.
“other than your attack on me”
What? “c’mon” is an attack now?
I said your argument was not good faith, not that you were acting not in good faith. I even called out the post you were responding to.
I know you recognize the difference–you’re not one of those FB idiots, parroting things they don’t understand, outside of appropriate context.
As to your note about finding the kneeling to be a felony–it sure *could be*, but the underlying charge is felony assault. Felony assault in MN (as possibly applicable to Floyd–not within a protected class under the statute) is assault that either (1) inflicts substantial (or great) bodily harm, or (2) uses a deadly weapon. #1, in this cause, would be tautology. #2, never will prove that a knee is a deadly weapon.
There is also a sentencing enhancement if the assault is motivated by proscribed bias. And, for someone convicted within 5 years of a prior bias assault (ie, not Chauvin), there is an upgrade to a felony.
I get it, AG Ellison wants to charge at the max. But anyone who pays attention to these things (both state and federal) realizes that if you aren’t getting a plea (here: duh), that you need to charge something that won’t give a judge an out.
“he was the only guy who wasn’t threatening to burn down the entire system”
He was the only straight white guy who “anyone” (ie, not from their state, and not a pol junkie) had heard of before who wasn’t doing that, except Bloomberg, who isn’t a D.
““The autopsy determined he did not die from asphyxiation. So, that cop was NOT applying deadly force on the neck. In fact, he actually looked bored, like he was in a simple holding pattern. Floyd died high on two dangerous drugs of a heart attack, he also had COVID.”
You mean facts, science, data and logic? The autopsy says these things.
“My only point is that people like HH give us insight into what alternate realities exist out there”
Hey db, what alternate realities are you talking about? I merely recited what the coroner’s report said. That’s reality, you’re the denier. I am a mainstream American. Never been arrested, never hurt another person. You’re the sympathizer with the extremists that just went on a nationwide killing, plunder, and wrecking spree and utterly devoid of any connection with God. You think you and your BLM people are normal? What alternate reality are you in?
LOL, Biden already said he won’t defund the police, so this wrecking/hate spree won’t let these satanic rioters make it battleground issue. We now SEE their evil ideas and hate exposed.
You think you and your BLM people are normal?
Yes
Majority of Voters Are More Concerned About George Floyd’s Death Than Violent Protests, Poll Says
https://www.newsweek.com/majority-voters-are-more-concerned-about-george-floyds-death-violent-protests-poll-says-1509223
Yes
Backing for Military Presence at Floyd Protests Declines as Support for Demonstrations Grows
62% support protests, while 48% plurality opposes supplementing police with active-duty military
https://morningconsult.com/2020/06/05/police-protests-national-guard-military-poll/
Great point about the straw man, Gary.
We see it now. Legitimate and peaceful liberal protests have been hijacked by looters. So the right wing pretends all liberals support looting, and attacks liberals as amoral anarchists.
It goes both ways. Trump says right-wing Jew hating fascists are “good people,” so liberals pretend all Republicans support right-wing Nazis just because Trump does.
Yes
Poll: Majority ‘sympathetic’ to protesters, disapprove of Trump’s response
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/500867-poll-majority-sympathetic-to-protesters-disapprove-of-trumps-response
“Trump says right-wing Jew hating fascists are “good people,” so liberals pretend all Republicans support right-wing Nazis just because Trump does.”
That’s another lie that’s been refuted so many times.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/26/joe-biden-donald-trump-charlotttesville-fine-people-neo-nazis-column/3588970002/
Stop spreading lies, Dan #2
“Yes
Poll: Majority ‘sympathetic’ to protesters, disapprove of Trump’s response”
So polls make it OK to riot, loot, block traffic, close all downtown bridges and peacefully protest the 9 deaths of unarmed black men last year?
Polls show that 71% of americans believe that late and third trimester abortions should be legal. Most people DON’T Believe that ‘life begins at first breath’, yet, IL and governor tells us that late term abortion is ‘one of our shared values’ and that the fetus in IL has no independent rights as a person until it is 100% out of the womb.
So take your polls and shove it.
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2019/02/26/new-poll-big-majorities-democrats-and-young-people-reject-late-term
*New poll: Big majorities of Democrats and young people reject late-term abortion*
“The poll also found overwhelming opposition to later-term abortions. By a nearly three-to-one margin — 71 percent to 25 percent — respondents said abortion generally should be illegal during the third trimester of pregnancy.”
Who were the other people in C’ville on the same side as the tiki torch carrying, Fred Perry clad, d-bags?
Who else was there defending the iconography of the Confederacy?
Who?
There were four groups: the protestors for the taking down of the statutes, the protestors against the taking down of the statutes, the neo-nazis that took over the protest, the anti neo-nazi protests.
The antifa was the overwhelming majority of people at the protest. But there were four groups there. That’s how this entire protest started, because a small group of people were protesting the statute, their counter-protestors, and it was all hijacked by the unite the right BS.
From my perspective, they’re all a bunch of idiots marching together. Taking down statutes is what the Taliban does. You want to have a discussion with the city about taking it down or moving it? Great, go ahead. The Turks took Constantinople for their own and erased nearly all evidence of its past Greek/Roman owners too. It doesn’t make it right but it happens. And 600 years later, they’ll still never be part of the EU for that stunt.
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2019/08/01/police-excessive-force-nu-study/
A study from 2019 of Chicago police shows that:
“While officers with five or more use of force complaints represent just 4 percent of the study’s sample, that small group contributes to 29 percent of person-complaints for use of force.”
So these rogue bad cops get to keep their jobs. But unions are good so they can keep their jobs. But bad rogue cops keep their jobs which is bad. But unions are good so they can keep their jobs. But bad rogue cops keep their jobs which is bad. But unions are good so they can keep their jobs. But bad rogue cops keep their jobs which is bad. But unions are good so they can keep their jobs.
So the answer is DEFUND THE POLICE! Not address these rogue cops protected by their powerful unions (that make large political donations to politicians) but it’s ALL THE POLICE!
“So the answer is DEFUND THE POLICE! Not address these rogue cops protected by their powerful unions (that make large political donations to politicians) but it’s ALL THE POLICE!”
For 10 years, HD, all you’ve done is blame the unions for the poor schools and the pension problem in Illinois and the cities/counties. It’s the teacher’s union who are to blame.
But now you’re NOT blaming the police union?
Give me a break.
“Poll: Majority ‘sympathetic’ to protesters, disapprove of Trump’s response
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign-polls/500867-poll-majority-sympathetic-to-protesters-disapprove-of-trumps-response”
Would be interesting to see the raw data and questions asked
For the disapprove of Trumps actions, I’m sure there’s more than a few % points of folks that are disappointed that he didn’t fully activate the military to shoot the rioters on sight.
“Taking down statutes is what the Taliban does.”
Nope. Wrong comparison.
Are there statutes of Hitler across Germany? Poland? No?
Why should there be of confederates?
And you can’t seriously be comparing the Turks in Istanbul. LMFAO. Have you ever been to Istanbul? Perhaps you should go to see just what the Turks “erased.”
That’s the amazing thing about the Muslim conquerors. They mostly kept most structures. Converted churches into mosques. Wiped away human depictions inside, usually by painting or tiling over the existing pictures. Very practical. I love going to Grenada Spain and seeing the churches, which were mosques and are now churches again.
The reason many historical structures still stand across Europe and the Middle East is because the Muslims preserved them. Go to Crete sometime.
It was the Europeans who sucked at preserving history. Look what they did to the Central and South American ancient cities. What a disaster for history.
“I am a mainstream American.”
Thank god, this isn’t true. The protests and polls show us that.
But don’t worry. HH is old. He and his ilk will die off soon enough. Many of the protesters are Millennials and GenZ. They are the hope for the future.
“You mean facts, science, data and logic? The autopsy says these things.”
Yes. Both the private and public autopsies said it was a homicide.
How many hours/days until HD and HH say the whole event was “staged” to steal our guns and loot the stores? That the cop was an actor and that George is alive and living in Kalamazoo with Elvis?
Don’t worry- the gaslighting idiots are already saying it. Just like Sandy Hook.
“When I say that people on the left create their own strawmen what I mean is that they take extreme positions that are easily attacked by folks on the right, making them look dumb. Not at all that far from the actual definition of a strawman: “A straw man fallacy occurs when someone takes another person’s argument or point, distorts it or exaggerates it in some kind of extreme way, and then attacks the extreme distortion, as if that is really the claim the first person is making.”
So I give you a concrete example where elected democrats are taking the position of disbanding the police and you call it a “Strawman” This isn’t some fringe crazies, its the elected council of a quasi major US city
So please explain how this is a distortion?
“My only point is that people like HH give us insight into what alternate realities exist out there and what might become battleground issues in November.”
True this Gary.
But we already know the battleground issues: healthcare and jobs (i.e. unemployment and the income inequality that goes with it.) And add onto that the pandemic, which continues to kill.
There are a LOT of senior voters who feel that this administration has thrown them under the bus. They’re not taking kindly to being thought of as an after thought, with so many saying, “they would have died anyway.”
All it takes is a 3% swing in the senior voters to Biden and this race is already over.
But, of course, it already IS over. Just a matter of how many Republican senators are going down with him.
“We can’t “disband the police”, that’s a loser white person’s idea.”
Of course you can. They did it in Camden already.
This is an old person talking. In 1776, there were lots of HH’s saying, “we can’t just declare our independence from the king. No one has ever done that before.”
They were wrong.
“But don’t worry. HH is old. He and his ilk will die off soon enough. Many of the protesters are Millennials and GenZ. They are the hope for the future.”
That future is fucked
“They aren’t really aware of the radical revolution being pushed on their own side, which is how Joe Biden got elected – he was the only guy who wasn’t threatening to burn down the entire system to destroy Trump.”
The vast majority of voters in both parties are in the center. If Trump had only gone to the center in November 2016, he would have gone down as one of the most successful presidents of all time. But he stayed to the right and will go down as one of the worst of all time. But, he was never a politician. Good at propaganda is not the same thing as actually being skilled at the art of politics. And the disaster of the past 6 months shows that pretty vividly.
So you need the center.
That is why Biden won the nomination. He was the most centrist candidate that had experience. Sure, Klobachar and Harris were both centrists too. But Biden has been the most consistently moderate centrist for the past 40 years.
This was comforting to voters looking for an alternative to the madness.
It’s guaranteed we’re not going to get a 1:30 am tweet of craziness from him when he’s commander in chief.
The country is tired. Trump was supposed to “surround himself with the best people” and “learn on the job.” He did neither and now everyone just wants him gone.
“And add onto that the pandemic, which continues to kill.”
so do the Mayors of most large cities own this? After all they said it was OK to Protest, but not OK to have a funeral for loved ones?
“But, of course, it already IS over”
Lots of Hillary supporters said the same thing
“Of course you can. They did it in Camden already.”
Nice to see you support the policies of Chris Christie
“Lots of Hillary supporters said the same thing”
Biden is not Hillary. Trump is not Obama. Trump is running as the incumbent during a recession with double digit unemployment which may be worse than that during the financial crisis.
The economic pain is not impacting right now because of the CARES Act. It’s worked. It is replacing the income. It will expire in 7 weeks. Many of the jobs will not be back by then. Then what?
We’re going to go into late summer with severe economic pain and a deepening of this recession.
Do you think the vast majority of voters won’t long for the Obama/Biden Administration to restore order and build the economy…again? 2008-2016 were pretty solid for the vast majority of Americans once the financial crisis pain subsided. People got back on their feet.
Americans want their government to work. And they want help when COVID spikes again (as it will since we’re already seeing it do so in several states.)
Hassert said today that another stimulus program is guaranteed. Just a matter of how big. Perhaps they will extend the $600 a week unemployment for several more months to avoid the worst of it heading into November? We will see.
But this election is over. Again, it’s just a matter of by “how much.”
The Trump Campaign has been running ads in Georgia, Ohio and Arizona the last few weeks. Those are states Trump won pretty easily in 2016.
Again, this election is already over.
I know you’re old too JohnnyU.
Sorry that you’re so closed minded.
GenZ is amazing. They are the hope. They’re the ones saying, “why the hell are there confederate statutes?” And they’re the ones who will force change on the climate, among other things.
Millennials are so big, they too will force changes.
“But this election is over. Again, it’s just a matter of by “how much.”
Keep telling yourself this.
If Biden was having to do anything other than scripted interviews, he’d be done and the DNC would be in a mad scramble to replace him after his 7,249th gaffe.
In general people that are calling elections as over in most cases never leave their echo chambers and are the personification of Dunning-Kruger
“I know you’re old too JohnnyU.
Sorry that you’re so closed minded.
GenZ is amazing. They are the hope. They’re the ones saying, “why the hell are there confederate statutes?” And they’re the ones who will force change on the climate, among other things.
Millennials are so big, they too will force changes.”
And I know you have a sub 75 IQ. Now that we have the insults out of the way…
Not closed minded, closed minded is what they’ve done at the NYT.
There are a number of excellent millennials, unfortunately they aren’t the ones attempting to recreate the Night of the Long Knives 2.0 for anyone that isn’t fully, 100% in lock step with their beliefs. They’ve become a cult
They’re also the mouthbreathers that were calling the man that pretty much stood up alone against the actual Nazi’s a racist
“If Biden was having to do anything other than scripted interviews, he’d be done”
Biden doesn’t have to do anything except be Biden: compassionate and caring. The COVID deaths continue. And everyone here can say, “it’s everyone over 65” and maybe it is. But if you’re over 65, as several are who post here, you’re pretty pissed that this administration is just letting you hang out to dry with absolutely NO plan on trying to save your life. And the Boomers and Silent Generation are a huge voting block.
With a president who tear gassed fellow Americans and was on the verge of calling in 10,000 troops to take them out in front of the nation’s house: this campaign is already over.
And Trump can’t do the one thing he thinks “works” and that’s going on the road for his rallies.
Everything that “worked” last time, calling the Democratic candidate names and trying to make them out to be corrupt is just old and tired this time.
Biden’s gaffes are meaningless when you’re faced, literally, with a president tear gassing Americans on the other side.
He has missed the moment twice in the last 6 months. Once with the pandemic and now with the protests. And they actually are going to roll him out there to give a national address of unity? Come on.
The huge fence they had to put up around the WH that pushed the American public the furthest away from America’s house than they have EVER been in US history is another sign.
It’s over.
Again, the only question is how many Republicans will fall with him. How big will the blue wave be? And then what will they do with that momentum? They’re only going to get one shot at one big item as the recession will still be raging. Will it be changes to Obamacare? Will they go for Medicare for all?
The US has the highest number of deaths from COVID in the world which is really distorted from our percentage of the global population. Why? Is it our general bad health? The government’s inept response? Our poor health insurance which leads to poor health?
There’s going to be a big reckoning when this is over.
“Nice to see you support the policies of Chris Christie”
Chris Christie was the mayor of Camden?
By the way, you have no idea what my politics are.
“Hey db, what alternate realities are you talking about? I merely recited what the coroner’s report said. That’s reality, you’re the denier. I am a mainstream American. Never been arrested, never hurt another person. You’re the sympathizer with the extremists that just went on a nationwide killing, plunder, and wrecking spree and utterly devoid of any connection with God. You think you and your BLM people are normal? What alternate reality are you in? ”
I have no issue with restating the coroner’s report. Where the issue is is what conclusions you draw from that.
You actually know virtually nothing about what POVs I sympathize with. I can usually find something to criticize about any POV 🙂 But I certainly don’t sympathize with violence.
As for your alternate realities…how about one where Jews are responsible for everything wrong with the world? How about one where you conflate BLM protesters with looters? How about one where there was a nationwide killing spree? How about one where you believe our mayor is a pervert for reasons I can only guess at?
“Chris Christie was the mayor of Camden?”
NJ state government contributes almost 5x what local property taxes do to the city budget, so may as well have been:
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html
“disbanding” in the current context is all about getting rid of the union contract without getting sued into maintaining status quo. If there is no more CPD, none of the police can claim a right to continued employment ahead of others, or the continued protection of the FOP contract.
““disbanding” in the current context is all about getting rid of the union contract without getting sued into maintaining status quo. If there is no more CPD, none of the police can claim a right to continued employment ahead of others, or the continued protection of the FOP contract.
That just speaks to the unbridled power of public police unions. Want bad cops fired? Abolish police unions. Want bad teachers fired? Abolish teachers unions. Want bad public employees fired? Abolish public sector unions. But you would never do that, because orange. man. bad.
“By the way, you have no idea what my politics are.”
100% DSA.
“I’m sure there’s more than a few % points of folks that are disappointed that he didn’t fully activate the military to shoot the rioters on sight.”
This is me. Antifa is today’s dirty hippie. Beat them all bloody with batons. Even though, in hindsight, I agree with their anti-vietnam war position, they’re still dirty hippies. The moment they loot or get violent, the batons come out in full force. The constitution says protestors have a right to ‘peacefully assemble’. The moment they throw rocks at the police, it’s all over, beat down the dirty antifas.
However, shooting should be reserved only for the arsonists. they light the walgreens on fire at state and Randolph. IIRC that’s a residential building. People live there. anyone starting a fire should have been shot. Looters deserve the baton.
“But now you’re NOT blaming the police union? ”
This cop in MN apparently had multiple excessive force complaints. yet he stayed on the force. because police unions make it nearly impossible to get bad cops fired. And when they are fired, they often get reinstated at arbitration.
Police officers rank and file are mostly old school democrats who find that the democrat party has left them with their leftist drivel, and now vote mostly republican. But the unions themselves are still solidly, solidly democrat. After the defund the police movement, and protests around the country, virtually every law enforcement officer in the country will be voting Republican, if they don’t already.
I was shocked at the time Rahm let Trump put up that giant sign. It was an eyesore before all of the controversy. Dude was from NY, with his name emblazoned on our town.
HD,
Even the article you posted points out that Trump indeed said there were “fine people on both sides.”
I wouldn’t describe Nazis as “fine people” – EVER. Remember what they were shouting? “Jews will not replace us!” If you think that’s a fine person saying that, I’m going to have to disagree.
So no, I wasn’t lying.
And yes, as the article you posted said, Trump did condemn right-wing violence that week, too. It was the right thing to do.
But did you see him do it? He obviously was reading off a cue card with no emotion. It was very canned, probably arranged by his PR people who saw what danger he was in, with even Republican leadership condemning him.
Try to write me off as a raving liberal lunatic if you’d like (I’m actually centrist). But you can’t argue with the facts.
I encourage you to read the GOP leaders’ reactions to Trump’s 2017 “fine people” words in the article below. I guess I stand with raving liberal lunatics like Sens. Marco Rubio and Chuck Grassley on this one.
Where do you stand? Sounds like it’s with HH, to me.
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/16139144/gop-senators-react-trump-charlottesville
Dan #2,
You clearly have Trump Derangement Syndrome. Go seek professional help. What part of:
“And you had people — and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally”
Leads you to believe that he was calling them ‘fine people’ when he clearly said “they should be condemned totally”…
You’re too much invested in this to be troll, and you have terrible reading comprehension too.
“Chris Christie was the mayor of Camden?”
NJ state government contributes almost 5x what local property taxes do to the city budget, so may as well have been:
https://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-camden-disbands-police-force-for-new-department.html
“disbanding” in the current context is all about getting rid of the union contract without getting sued into maintaining status quo. If there is no more CPD, none of the police can claim a right to continued employment ahead of others, or the continued protection of the FOP contract.
Why’d did you go and ruin my fun?
I was hoping to throw in a “educated yourself and read sometime”
“There’s going to be a big reckoning when this is over.“
Im sure you’ll get great satisfaction reporting others so they can be rounded up and re-educated, eh comrade?
“That just speaks to the unbridled power of public police unions. Want bad cops fired? Abolish police unions. Want bad teachers fired? Abolish teachers unions. Want bad public employees fired? Abolish public sector unions.”
This is all true.
“But you would never do that, because orange. man. bad.”
This is insane. Those in control (and most Chicagoans) would never do this way before Trump os pretending it’s Trump related is nuts.
I mean, Trump is awful, but he has nothing to do why some I know irrationally support the CTU and certainly nothing to do with why I likely agree with you on this specific stuff.
The backlash against Rahm (and Lori too) for being insufficiently pro CTU was not related to them being pro “orange man” (bad as he is!).
It was the chief of police who started the move to change to community policing in Camden.
Can we move on now?
My god. Please educate yourself JohnnyU. Before it’s too late. Learning can come at any age.
“Im sure you’ll get great satisfaction reporting others so they can be rounded up and re-educated, eh comrade?”
What are you even talking about?
A reckoning on our awful healthcare system. We have the highest death rate in the world. There IS a reason.
But wait a minute- we have the best medical care in the world, right?
NOT.
What are you even talking about?
Don’t go all Karen on me, instead read a book and educate yourself
“A reckoning on our awful healthcare system. We have the highest death rate in the world. There IS a reason.
But wait a minute- we have the best medical care in the world, right? ”
This is flat out incorrect
Belgium has the Covid-19 title
Bulgaria has the total mortality rate belt
Im moving away from Hanlon’s Razor as the reason you constantly make things up
Maybe you should read a book and educate yourself sometime?
“I think you’re 100% full of shit, is what I think,” Lightfoot snapped.
The reply set the alderman off, and he shot back, “No offense — Fuck you, then. Who are you to tell me I’m full of shit? Maybe you should come out and see what’s going on.”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/08/chicago-mayor-lori-lightfoot-in-expletive-filled-fight-with-alderman-over-black-lives-matter-riots/
So, this is where we are. Our city is run by losers, idiots. The USA is now officially Brazil-North, it will never again be a bastion of Western Civilization or high culture or virtue. I suppose this nation peaked in 1969 when we put a man on the moon and the modernism and pedo-homo perversion and anti-white hate, across all spectrums, hadn’t yet metastasized.
There is hope though. Generation Z is having NO PART in following the failed ideas of the people like Sabrina and Gary. They are old boomers, and Gen Z has seen that ideas that feminists and Sabrina hold are losers. Gen Z has seen that Boomer-divorce, rampant sex, growing old alone, drugs and drunk chardonnay sluts are all bad for society and the destruction of families, it spreads misery. I could go on, but Gen Z is abandoning everything that the Boomers supported that ruined this country and took it where it exists today. Hell hole. Anti-white racism everywhere. Tearing down statues of whites. Gary, they want your house, useful idiot.
Maybe some of the Gen Z anti-white racists will fight the trend, but these are the haters and rioters who destroyed others’ lives, they are just the loser minority, they aren’t going to be leaders of anything, just a-holes who destroy and hate. Their lives matter? Why should anyone pay attention to rioters? Nobody can find this mythical white “racist”, so they invented a term: systemic to claim that that racism exists. Chicago is 30% white, 90% of the whites are liberals, we have a black mayor, just had a black president, there are anti-white quotas in all colleges and corporations, there are no actually racists on the streets…..oh but it’s “systemic”. My ass.
“Abolish public sector unions. But you would never do that, because orange. man. bad.”
Delete facebook, HD. You’re trapped in an echo chamber of halfwits and agitprop nonsense.
Helmethofer,
First, there is no higher compliment than to be insulted by you. Thank you. Sincerely.
“Gen Z is abandoning everything that the Boomers supported that ruined this country and took it where it exists today.”
What evidence do you have that Gen Z is abandoning what the boomers supported? For that matter what do you think the boomers supported? For that matter what makes you think that boomers are a monolithic group that can be thought of as supporting a single ideal? And where the country is today is with 5% of the world’s population we have 15% of the world’s GDP and over 50% of the world’s stock market capitalization.
You live in an alternate reality. Where does it come from? A steady diet of Breitbart?
Wow- HH’s rant.
I can’t wait for that old generation to die off. My god. Since he’s raging on Boomers, I’m assuming he’s the Silent Generation. 75-83 years old.
Yikes.
I’m not insulting you Gary, just commenting on your reality. The #BLM covet everything they don’t own and can’t have. So they destroy. You can support the anti-white bigots, but they’d throw you out of your house in a second, if they could, because you didn’t work for it, you’re only there because of privilege, and they deserve it because “equality”. See?
Lenin had a term for guys like you, “Useful Idiot”, so he’s the one insulting you, not me. I picked that up from reading about communists and their gentile white fool followers.
This is the REALITY:
Lopez added that he was not blaming the Chicago Police for not being able to prevent the looting, but lamented: “Half our neighborhoods are already obliterated. It’s too late.”
Lopez also worried that the rioters would turn from the businesses to the citizens: “Once they’re done looting and rioting, and whatever’s going to happen tonight, God help us, what happens when they start going after residents? Going into the neighborhoods? Once they start trying to break down people’s doors if they think they’ve got something.”
Wow– what a rant!
So, are we going to defund the police and let the hood rats burn their own houses down? I think Gary should offer to open his house to some illegal immigrants, some homeless, or some folks displaced by the riots. He’s had so much privilege, it’s time he helps the less fortunate in a meaningful way, not just platitudes from a self-segregating virtue-signaller.
If you read closely between the lines you’ll see that I clearly think that “defunding the police” is a bad rallying cry. I bet you can’t find 3 serious politicians that agree on what it even means. If there is any merit to the idea it definitely needs to be repackaged for consumption by the center. That’s why Biden has distanced himself from the concept. Good thing that he did because Trump is already having too much fun with the concept.
“If you read closely between the lines you’ll see that I clearly think that “defunding the police” is a bad rallying cry. I bet you can’t find 3 serious politicians that agree on what it even means. If there is any merit to the idea it definitely needs to be repackaged for consumption by the center.”
Words have meaning and should matter
The is a big difference between defund and reallocate resources ($)
While the race was on to see who could virtue signal the most, they kinda lost track of this
“Half our neighborhoods are already obliterated. It’s too late.”
Again, another indicator that HH doesn’t live in Chicago. He’s getting his “news” off of some Breitbart article that is a week old.
The neighborhoods were not obliterated. Some retail stores were. They have insurance and will rebuild. Supermarkets, with neighborhood support, have reopened. This wasn’t 1968 when homes were burned down.
No one looted residents, so Lopez’s “worry” from a week ago was for naught.
The protests have been calm and orderly since the initial weekend of looting. But the point has been made, right? Politicians already moving quickly to talk about change, just like they did after the violence of 68.
Can’t help but blanche at the assessment of $3,012, for a 2,400 sq ft space. This is $1.25 per square foot, which is awfully steep for a relatively new building, even with the indoor pool and other amenities in the building. This is a higher cost per sq ft than even most luxury 1920s-vintage high rises, with their terra cotta and stone ornamentation (which constantly needs expensive work) and their aged mechanical systems.
Worse, maintenance costs usually increase steeply as a building ages, especially a high rise building.
Most buyers of units in newer luxury buildings demand much lower HOAs than this, and can get it in buildings that match this in amenity and services.
“Most buyers of units in newer luxury buildings demand much lower HOAs than this, and can get it in buildings that match this in amenity and services.”
Can you?
There are only a handful of buildings in the city that offer these amenities, in my opinion. You literally can have food brought up from the restaurant whenever you want on a cart as if it’s room service. I realize with food delivery you can have just about anything brought to you from any restaurant in the city, but the room service option goes a bit beyond that.
The Ritz on Michigan Avenue has private butler service, I think. And then you have the Watertower which also had high assessments because of the hotel amenities you could use (but they recently cut theirs to be more competitive with other buildings.)
And Trump Tower is just 12 years old. What happens when they have to really start repairing/replacing things?
“Can you?”
Waldorf should be reasonably comparable (if not point for point the same) for amenities, and the one currently for sale is at $0.75 psf.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/11-E-Walton-St-60611/unit-3201/home/21808597
Like I said. It’s just a handful of buildings that have these amenities.
Do they have restaurant/butler service in the Elysian? I didn’t think they did. I thought it’s just a condo building above a hotel. No sharing of amenities or anything like the others.
The Waldorf hotel owner defaulted last year. And now, with the shutdown, I wonder what is happening there.
I don’t think the condo owners have the same amenities as the two Ritz buildings and Trump.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/commercial-real-estate/lender-sell-waldorf-astoria-after-seizing-it-owner
From Crain’s:
A debt fund controlled by real estate investment firm Walton Street Capital recently took ownership of the 215-room hotel at 11 E. Walton St. from a venture of Geller and Wanxiang America Real Estate Group through a deed-in-lieu of foreclosure, sources familiar with the property confirmed. Now the Walton Street fund, which was a junior lender on the debt the Geller venture took out to finance its $111.9 million acquisition of the hotel in 2015, has hired a broker to sell it, sources said.
The takeover and apparent financial woes at the 10-year-old hotel belie a downtown hospitality market that has thrived in recent years. They also cast a harsh light on the operations of a property whose sale four years ago set a record high for a price paid per room for a Chicago hotel.
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/commercial-real-estate/lender-sell-waldorf-astoria-after-seizing-it-owner
So I have “Trump derangement syndrome,” ok. The man himself is deranged. Anyone who isn’t deranged by him? I question their morals.
Used to be presidents who dodged the draft and committed adultery were roundly criticized by Republicans. But that was when the presidents who did those things were Democrats. Now it’s all Ok.
Check your values.
“I don’t think the condo owners have the same amenities”
What do you think they don’t have??
Name three, and I’ll look it up for you, since it seems your google is broken.
“What do you think they don’t have??”
They actually use the same amenities as the hotel. And they have special service from the restaurants like in Watertower and Trump. The Elysian (or whatever they are calling it now) is actually a totally separate building from the hotel. So, the assessments should be less in the Elysian actually.
There are only a few that have the super crazy amenities of the hotel and/or butler service like the Ritz on Michigan Avenue has. I can only think of three.
But if the Elysian somehow was designed the same way as Trump, then they would be the fourth.