Trying to Sell the Renovated 4-Bedroom Victorian in Portage Park: 4044 N. Lawler
This 4-bedroom Victorian single family home at 4044 N. Lawler in Portage Park has been on and off the market since December 2007.
In that time, it has been reduced $229,000.
At $485,000, it is still among the 10 most expensive listings in the Portage Park neighborhood.
Built in 1906, the house still has some of its vintage features including stained glass and leaded glass.
The kitchen has hand-crafted Honduran mahogany custom cabinetry and stainless steel appliances along with imported Swedish tile.
Built on an oversized 36.5×125 lot, the porch and veranda were custom built.
3 of the bedrooms are on the second floor with the fourth on the third.
The house has a 2-car garage and central air.
What will it take to sell this house?
Thomas Brandt at Keller Williams has the listing. See the pictures here.
4044 N. Lawler: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage
- Sold sometime prior to 1992
- Originally listed in December 2007 for $714,000
- Reduced numerous times
- Was listed in April 2010 for $550,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $485,000
- Taxes of $4361
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 14×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 11×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 16×14 (third floor)
- Work room: 19×15 (lower level)
wow, wonder what would have got it done in 07. that is a bit of a haircut over the past four yrs
loooove that front porch! reminds me of my frat house from college
good times
as for a 500k (non brick) house in portage park, well while its large and pretty nice inside… good luck to the sellers
How did they ever think they would get $700K for this place??? Portage Park is nice, but for that kind of money you might as well move on to Oak Park. Not much further west.
It is getting to where it will sell though.
how far north does oak park go? isnt it south of here rather than west?
“wonder what would have got it done in 07”
Probably could have pulled the $550 from last year (or a bit more), if they’d listed in the fall of 07 rather than December, right?
CH… OP is Southwest of Portage Park. I know some folks are enamored with having a Chicago address, but I guess I don’t get it when you start paying that kind of cash outside of the Greenzone hoods.
With that said, I can see these areas attracting younger professionals, but just can’t get a read on how big the influx is really going to be. I’ve seen hoods like this transform pretty dramatically in other cities
Until today, the most expensive home in 60641 under contract (including portage/old irving/belmont craigin) was this home listed for $487,000.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4327-N-Keeler-Ave-60641/home/13481768
It sold today for $431,000.
The next most expensive home under contract is the 3725 N. Lowell property we chatted about a few weeks ago and it is listed at $474,500.
The next most expensive home under contract is 3400 N KILPATRICK Ave
at $449,000.
The entire zip code is getting slammed, particularly old irving which has 29 homes priced over $400,000 and only one under contract.
Portage park is also getting slammed hard. There are dozens of homes for sale and only a handful are under contract. I can count on less than two hands the number of homes that sold in the last month. The most expensive property at $247,000 had six bedrooms and sold for a whopping $84.00 a sq ft.
Furthermore, the supply in Portage Park is probalby going to increase for years to come. I personally know of at least two people who own homes in portage park, who haven’t paid their mortgage in over a year, and the bank has yet to even file a foreclosure. I’m not exaggerating. I believe a few a months ago I went up and down a block in portage park and showed how owners bought their homes for low amounts during the 1990’s and heloc’d the heck out of them over the years.
“Probably could have pulled the $550 from last year (or a bit more), if they’d listed in the fall of 07 rather than December, right?”
Yeah but they’re a real estate genius and they can’t just give it away.
One good sign: rehab work being done on your potential neighbor’s place.
There hasn’t been a sale of a SFH in Portage Park for more than $500,000 in over two years.
Streets this side of laramie are tight driving and there are many apartment complexes and 3flats around here so parking is a street by street basis.
you can walk to Bacci’s pizza for a slice and a coke for less than a starbucks venti (thats the small now?) and walk to hops and barley for drinks.
that said i can see this wonderful home going for 450k, its a darn huge house even with tthe Victorian compartmentalized layout, and only 4k taxes.
portage park school still has a great drama program! even if its test suck.
Portage Park has had less than 5 homes sell for more than $300,000 in the last year with this being one of them:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5315-W-Pensacola-Ave-60641/home/13479135
I love this house! If 4321 Keeler went for $431k, I don’t see why this couldn’t get $465, I think it is far nicer. However, I do agree with Russ, this place would be better if it were moved to Oak Park, and there probably would sell around this price without much trouble.
not a surprise, these neighborhoods and suburbs are just so boring and dime a dozen that only a bubble could have justified their prices.
“Portage park is also getting slammed hard.”
HD, Pensacola does make a tough comparable for this place, although I definitely still like Lawler more. Maybe instead of $465, it should sell closer to $435k, but I don’t think they are that far off. They definitely were in 2007 though. I guess they weren’t in a rush. 🙂
benjamon9: the keeler house is east of milwaukee and the lawyer house is west of milwaukee. Huge difference.
Look at the difference in the number of $400k+ homes sold in the last 3 years
http://www.redfin.com/homes-for-sale#!lat=41.95169274612122&long=-87.74144227147308&market=chicago&min_price=400000&sf=&sold_within_days=730&uipt=3,2,1&v=6&zoomLevel=14
“not a surprise, these neighborhoods and suburbs are just so boring and dime a dozen that only a bubble could have justified their prices”
i shall forgive you since you body chemicals are all out of wack.
I toured the house over a year ago. Other than the lovely kitchen, not much money was spent. Plus, other than the smallish living room right inside the front door, there were no common living areas. A house of this size should have a rec room or tv room. We couldn’t figure out where we’d put one. From what I recall about talking to the realtor, the sellers are pretty unrealistic. They poured their hearts into the kitchen and think that should sell the house.
So is a Lawler someone who LOL’s alot?
“Probably could have pulled the $550 from last year (or a bit more), if they’d listed in the fall of 07 rather than December, right?”
It was where they should have tried. There were 11 Portage Park detached sales over $550k in 2007, 10 were new construction (btw, all but one of those on 25′ lots.) Here are the 2007 rehab sales over $475k, only the high sale was originally listed over $600k (@ $699k):
Address Beds Baths Closed Date Sold Pr Yr Blt Lot Dim
5512 W LELAND 4 4.1 4/27/2007 $690,000 1908 48 X 125
5654 W WINDSOR 4 2.1 9/10/2007 $540,000 58.32 X 115
4252 N Parkside 4 3.1 6/25/2007 $535,000 1952 40X125
4438 N MONITOR 4 3.1 2/9/2007 $522,500 1925 30X125
4835 W Warwick 3 1.1 7/16/2007 $500,000 1924 65 X 125
5449 W BERENICE 4 3 4/20/2007 $480,600 1922 33′ X 125′
4737 N LONG 4 2 5/30/2007 $475,000 1908 50 X 125
Portage park is too far out to really gentrify imho. Avondale, parts of logan albany park could gentrify before portage. The other issue is demographics. Chicago can only draw so many people from the suburbs and surrounding states to displace the current residents with hipsters, gays, artists and professionals. Even today with 12 years of constant inflow the gentrification barely reaches west of Western from basically the loop all the way up to logan.
“There were 11 Portage Park detached sales over $550k in 2007, 10 were new construction (btw, all but one of those on 25? lots.) Here are the 2007 rehab sales over $475k, only the high sale was originally listed over $600k (@ $699k): ”
And yet today there hasn’t been a sale of $500k in two years (does my redfin search produce the same results as G’s proprietary MLS database?)
The kitchen is depressing and so inappropriate for this house. What a waste of a nice piece of rain forest.
We toured this house a few months ago when it was relisted for $499. The realtor told me that they had had an offer when it was around $550k but the buyer had a contingency on their selling her place…and they allowed that buyer a contingency and the whole thing dominoed. Don’t know if that’s true but makes for a good story.
REB the money was put in places you might take for granted. The porch was redone, the landscaping. The laundry room and the back stairwell. The guy apparently was a carpenter and did all the work himself. Not much you can do with that living room and as I recall, the basement wasn’t really expandable either beyond using it for storage, laundry and maybe a workout room.
HD–
That is interesting, but I do see two over $400k sales in the immediately area to Lawler. Why couldn’t they get over $400k? I’m not saying they will get asking price, but who does?
“hat a waste of a nice piece of rain forest.”
there is plantation Honduran Mahogany, even raised in the Philippines:
http://marssetropicaltimber.com/
So, not necessarily.
Most people craving the city address also crave close proximity to the L. This generally applies to the gentrifying areas…not really applicable to the areas that were consistently desirable primarily to city workers. So, the areas within 10-15 minutes’ walk off the Blue Line have the most promise…this is too far west.
benjamon9:
I see one sale over $400,000 (not counting new construction on Kilpatrick) in the last year near Lawler
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4138-N-Lavergne-Ave-60641/home/12574758
The $400k+ sales are in old irving on the other side of cicero, which is a completely different neighborhood in so many ways.
Here are the last 4 Portage Park detached sales over $500k:
Address Beds Baths Closed Date Sold Pr Yr Blt Lot Dim
4209 N KILPATRICK 3 2.1 5/5/2010 $510,309 2009 25X105
5501 W CULLOM 4 2.1 4/30/2010 $580,000 1926 36 X 125
4711 W BERTEAU 5 3.1 1/21/2010 $550,000 2008 30X142
4219 N KILPATRICK 4 3.1 8/10/2009 $505,000 2007 25X105
I guess the other one was in late 2009, but it was also 1 bedroom and 1 1/2 baths less. After looking at these pictures again, and hearing REB and Icarus’ comments, maybe I’ll take back loving the house but it sure has some very nice features, looks cute and doesn’t have 1.5 baths as most of these vintage homes do!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5027-W-Berteau-Ave-60641/home/13477362
OK so take out the kirkpatricks (CA new construction next to jewel)
and the cullom we talked about and I missed the Berteau because I thought it was another on kilpatrick. so there has been only one sale west of cicero, and the other three were new construction east of cicero.
benjamon9: that little pocket of portage between milwaukee, irving and laramie seems to have some cool homes – but that commercial stretch of milwaukee is blighted as blighted can be. I missed berteau house on my initial search Redfin is not the best to search for accurate totals!
Different than lawler but cheaper
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4862-W-Warner-Ave-60641/home/13477477
35×125
@Benjamon09, I love the house too. But it’s not close enough to the El for me to drop half a million on especially since there are better options available in this market.
Plus after reading this blog for over a year, I’ve really learned that it’s smarter to buy a house that one salary in the DINK relationship can handle in case of unexpected life emergencies.
“Portage park is too far out to really gentrify imho. Avondale, parts of logan albany park could gentrify before portage. The other issue is demographics. Chicago can only draw so many people from the suburbs and surrounding states to displace the current residents with hipsters, gays, artists and professionals. ”
hipsters = can’t bike from far out places or it’s really difficult, not moving this far out.
gays = no reason for them to congregate in areas like this, they already congregate closer to the lake
artists = they can already get cheap rents in closer in areas like logan square or pilsen, areas closer to art galleries
professionals = no need for them to drop 500k on houses in nabes such as this as professionals can live anywhere, but they do prize proximity to where they work. far out nabes will suffer unless there is a very compelling reason (ie: new trier school district).
“Plus after reading this blog for over a year, I’ve really learned that it’s smarter to buy a house that one salary in the DINK relationship can handle in case of unexpected life emergencies.”
Yeah but then that severely limits where you can live because housing in good areas is more or less priced based on one high income earner or two middle to high income earners. Especially places like Roscoe Village where homes are $600k or more and HH incomes are $200k+ and nannies are everywhere. I know I’m priced out of the RV for the most part.
“Plus after reading this blog for over a year, I’ve really learned that it’s smarter to buy a house that one salary in the DINK relationship can handle in case of unexpected life emergencies.”
Also consider that DINK might change to one income and kid(s), which is technically not an unexpected life emergency, but in light of the high cost of childcare it can make sense for one spouse to stay home. Of course, that can suddenly change the household budget signficantly for a couple years or more.
MY other half said that she reads on the parenting blogs that couples with a stay at home parent just complain about money a lot (big mortgages eat up a lot of the one earners rent) but the dual income household parents complain they cannot spend enough time with their children. So it’s a trade off. Even if you have one high income earning trader husband or something then the other party complains that the husband is never around. You can’t win.
“one high income earning trader husband … the other party complains that the husband is never around”
“Successful” traders, in Chicago, are not well-known for their long work days. Early, yes. Long, no.
HD those are just dumb whities in denial that they can’t have it all.
They either wanted what should’ve been a rich person’s house or price range but they were middle class and used funny financing to get it or they aren’t happy where they live. The people you speak of on that blog are what are called grown up children.
They should’ve considered the lifestyle sacrifices they would have to make if they wanted that 500k house in the GZ right around the corner from their bars/starbucks.
Now watch as all of the true middle class people who pretended to be rich get washed out in this bust.
HD, you either have time or money. Very few people are fortunate to have both. Those with money never have a lot of time and those with a lot of time are usually broke. You just have to decide which one is more important to you…
Except for the idle rich….
“Russ on May 24th, 2011 at 3:27 pm
HD, you either have time or money. Very few people are fortunate to have both. Those with money never have a lot of time and those with a lot of time are usually broke. You just have to decide which one is more important to you…”
Bob, most people are aspirational, no matter how much money they make. The more money you make, the more shit you want.
This is why you have people making several hundred G’s per year living check to check. Prime example is the Rajat Gupta case of insider trading. I think most rational folks would say he was “rich” and set for life, but in his circle of billionaire trader friends, he might was well been on food stamps. Must have been a crushing blow to the ego to know you are the only one of the guys who can’t pay cash for a G4 and even the annual fee on NetJets looks expensive.
People who make $100k want to live like that make $200k. People who make $1 million want to live like the make $2 million.
No matter how much you make, there is always someone else who can stunt harder than you. Most people’s ego’s push them to aspire. It takes a while to grow out of that desire and some never do…
“This is why you have people making several hundred G’s per year living check to check.”
Case in point, this ridiculous family making $225,000 and no emergency savings to speak of: http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/23/magazines/moneymag/budgeting_for_emergency_fund.moneymag/index.htm?iid=HP_Highlight
Of course, most of the family’s budget goes to “Mortgages — for their home and two underwater investment properties in Florida”
“Case in point, this ridiculous family making $225,000 and no emergency savings to speak of”
Mini-Trump syndrome:
“Mortgages — for their home and two underwater investment properties in Florida”
LMFAO they specuvested and are now living paycheck to paycheck…no surprise there. Given their financial savvy so far they’ll probably start taking early 401k distributions as well.
I read that Money Mag profile of the family, too. They have so much debt they may never escape it. I’m sure those “investment” properties they purchased were bought during the height of the real-estate mania, and they thought they could easily flip them in a few years for 100K profit each. They were living in a fantasy world. Now they’re stuck with the results. I’m glad we never invested in property besides our own home.
The tips for the famly are to:
1. Slice the budget.
2. Turn off the 401(k) — for now.
3. Tackle the plastic.
Meanwhile, they will continue to bleed money with those underwater investment properties in one of the hardest hit states in the country. Seems like the advice offered by CNN Money treats the symptoms and not the disease.
“Cutting back on vacations and meals out should save $400 a month. ”
one would hope they are not still going on vacations and eating out. They are probably ordering in and take out a lot because with two kids and work, I’m guessing the time and energy to grocery shop and prepare meals is compromised.
Its difficult to feel sympathetic for these losers. I have no sympathy for people who feel they are entitled or feel some sense of necessity to live a certain way. If I can live without cable TV and with only 1 car in a studio in uptown, they can do it too. 2 new cars, private schools, nannies, condo investments, massive 401k contribs…whateva
They do look like a nice family, though. I bet they’re wishing they hadn’t agreed to be profiled, considering all the nasty comments the profile has gotten on Money’s web site.
Due to commitments in Jefferson Park, I’ve been driving by that Cullom bungalow now several times. Still astounded by asking price. Portage Park neighborhood has charm, but it’s a hike to Jefferson Park el stop and/or retail. And it’s not a likely alternate to Lake View or Lincoln Square houses for a house-seeking dual-income professional couple. Neighborhood has mostly mid-block standard bungalow blocks with fancier corner-lot bungalows with snazzier street presence, but not $300,000 to $400,000 more.
There are several more interesting bungalows for sale than this wood-frame 4-square or Cullom house. Portage Park does seem glutted with properties for sale.
“2 new cars … condo investments”
If they have 3 mortgages (assuming inclusive of T+A), *2* (assumed) *new* (assumed) car payments and 401k loan payments in $4,450/month, it’s not like they’re living in a million dollar manse and driving $75k cars, unless their “investment” props are break-even or cashflowing. Cheaper/used cars, smaller mortgages seems more likely.
“massive 401k contribs”
Less than 10% of gross, and not maxed out. Might be the number to max their match.
“private schools”
where’d you get that idea?
“nannies”
As noted often, here and elsewhere, it’s frequently break-even with better flexibility when you have two kids who need day care, even part-days.
Judging these people without knowing the exact specifics that led them to this situation is no better than when Clio calls us idiots for not realizing something that make so much sense to him.
Icarus:
You did in so many fewer words. Although the mini-trump syndrome is relevant.
@ Groove, I think we have generally very different taste. I like small cars and you don’t, right? but it doesn’t mean any of us has a bad taste, just that mine is a bit better ; ) BTW, are you a dog person too?
“i shall forgive you since you body chemicals are all out of wack.”
As a matter of principle I am with you Icarus, but also one should learn to live within one’s means. That is why I respect HD’s viewpoint. Sure, I liked to have a 20K Valentino Sposa dress, but for one night? That is just not right. If I buy that then what should Trump’s daughter wear? I think it is good to learn to check one’s desires from time to time. I have been at times bad with money, but I never did crazy things (not saying these folks necessarily did). We have friend’s that earn less than us, their parents have less money than ours and still they live like they are quite wealthy. I hope they will keep doing well, but I would have been worried if I were them with all their debts.
“Judging these people without knowing the exact specifics that led them to this situation is no better than when Clio calls us idiots for not realizing something that make so much sense to him.”
“I think we have generally very different taste … but it doesn’t mean any of us has a bad taste”
Just avoid the “prole taste” buzzwords, like “travertine”, “uba tuba” and “stainless steel” and we’ll all be okay.
I did not even know the word travertine until yesterday…lol…but despite SS being apparently passe now (according to Spinoza), I am still an SS fan : ) Even though they are tough to clean as well. I clean my refrigerator’s handle every other day…sigh
“You did in so many fewer words”
how do you mean? My comment on them ordering in was a speculation — based on my limited observations of couples with two small children — but not a judgement.
“how do you mean? ”
I did in too few words–should have been: “you did what I was trying to do in so many fewer words.”
Sabrina’s off-center and crooked photograph above would fit perfect with a typical REO listing.
“Sabrina’s off-center and crooked photograph above would fit perfect with a typical REO listing.”
And suddenly HD is banned from the cc site. 😀
The world was ending and it was hard to get a good shot, geez…
$485K is a ton of money to live in a frame house in the middle of nowhere, in the school boundary of mediocre Portage Park elementary. The only thing I’d love about living would be easy access to the pools at Portage Park, especially the Olympic-sized outdoor pool and the diving well in the summer. Four days until the beaches open!
We both work full time and have two kids, our schedule is pretty ridiculous right now because we only have one car, and we eat a home cooked from scratch meal every night.
“Sabrina’s off-center and crooked photograph above would fit perfect with a typical REO listing.”
Ha! ha! Yeah. But half the house would probably be cut off.
I do the best I can- which means sometimes the pics are taken out of car windows and the like. It’s not always pretty- which is why I always tell the agents that if they really want their property shown in the “best” light- they should let me use their professionally taken pictures! 🙂
Sabrina, if you get real lazy, you can just use the cook county assessor’s picture from like 5 years ago with the PIN digitally imposed on the lower right hand corner of the photograph. I’ve seen quite a few REO listings with the assessor’s 2005 photograph being the only picture.
Are you guys talking about the photo of this property? If so it is better than anything I ever take…but well that is not saying much : ) Actually the color is so nice.
wow that is great. I hate little pools supposedly luxury buildings have. A pool should be at least 20-25 meters long. Of course the 50m rocks.
“especially the Olympic-sized outdoor pool and the diving well in the summer”
Thanks miumiu- but the photo is not my best. Occasionally I take pics that are better than the actual listing- but this was not one of them.
Oh well. It gives us something else to chatter about. ha!
I agree with those who say why pay $485K to live in the middle of nowhere just to say they’re in the city of Chicago. Better to spend the same and live in a decent house in a nearby suburb where you can access good schools for your kids. This neighborhood has none of the advantages of living in the city and many of its disadvantages, plus it’s just as boring as most suburbs and the public transportation to downtown is far worse than what I have here on the North Shore.
Dan #2, I’d venture to guess this house has far more character than any $485k house you’d find on the North Shore…
“which is why I always tell the agents that if they really want their property shown in the “best” light- they should let me use their professionally taken pictures!”
You have to be a particular kind of idiot to turn down a chance to get free publicity for a property you’re trying to sell in the most positive light possible.
Areas like this that are suburbs within the city make sense as residency required city worker land. This house, however, is priced too high for much of that demographic.
I’m pleasantly surprised by number of “nice” MLS houses in Highland Park now under $.5M. A nice Keck & Keck house too. Hard for an overpriced 4-square in ho-hum Portage Park to compete, plus great public schools, strong downtown retail, Metra commute, etc.
“@ Groove, I think we have generally very different taste. I like small cars and you don’t, right? but it doesn’t mean any of us has a bad taste, just that mine is a bit better ; ) BTW, are you a dog person too?”
just like in life not all like the same things, but when you word things harshly like
“these neighborhoods and suburbs are just so boring and dime a dozen”
before knowing the history of the hood or what it actually has to offer. i will assume the hormones from the little grower in you caused the wording you chose.
the said thing many people will take the same view as you worded it and miss out on a great family hood to live in and never visit there to understand all the benefits it provides
” Better to spend the same and live in a decent house in a nearby suburb where you can access good schools for your kids.”
Dan #deuce,
yes this same house in winnetka will be 700k with 15k taxes. sounds like the “same” to me and a very financial *smart idea.
“This neighborhood has none of the advantages of living in the city and many of its disadvantages”
really how do you say that? i find it funny that you can get the same multitude of ethnic restaurants, grocery stores, shopping options and good public transportation on GREEN BAY ROAD???? ooooh i forgot you get that wonder full two block strip of stores off tower rd. with a panera bread as eating option. hahahaahahhaha (well that toy store is cool though but WAY overpriced)
“plus it’s just as boring as most suburbs”
as boring as living in naperville? NO WAY. as boring as living in River Forest? maybe
“the public transportation to downtown is far worse than what I have here on the North Shore.”
are you f’ing kidding me? a 5 minute milwuake bus ride will have you at jeffpark station which as every transportation you need, PACE, CTA bus hub, blue line, METRA, Cabs. take a 5 minute irving bus to metra or blue line. your 5 minutes from 90/94.
Dan #2, next time before you type please just think. and say do i really have knowldge of this before i look like a old womans butt!
“I’m pleasantly surprised by number of “nice” MLS houses in Highland Park now under $.5M. A nice Keck & Keck house too. Hard for an overpriced 4-square in ho-hum Portage Park to compete, plus great public schools, strong downtown retail, Metra commute, etc”
arc,
doode it looks like a fire sale in the braeside/ravina district for the past two years. its amazing how far your dollar will go there and what you get for it. and the greatest part ITS NOT IN COOK COUNTY!!!
Grove77,
You have every right to your opinions. However, I wasn’t thinking of Winnetka when I wrote that. I was thinking of Highland Park, where you can indeed get a decent house with some character for $485K within walking distance to the Metra.
I’ll admit the North Shore doesn’t have a ton of great ethnic restaurants, and I’m not that familiar with Portage Park. However, I never thought of Portage Park as a particuarly interesting area for ethnic food. I should probably head over there sometime and try some. Any recommendations?
“I was thinking of Highland Park, where you can indeed get a decent house with some character for $485K within walking distance to the Metra”
I know in HP you can get a darn good house in TOP school district for the same price taxes would be a bit higher but the ROI is greater on the tax payments.
we looked in the braeside district a while back, if it wasnt for my commute (i dont work in the loop) it might have been home for us.
“However, I never thought of Portage Park as a particuarly interesting area for ethnic food”
there are a range from an Argentine steak house to middle eastern to a basic taco stand that charcoal grills the meat to a polish place that has great hungarian pancakes, and so on. all walking distance to this house.
and with the major renovation to the six corners shopping and backing from the alderman/county/state and i think tif funds going into making it a revived commercial spot, look for new places to pop up soon.
but if HP is a “equal” option for a person with more than one kid thats looking its any easy win for HP.
“I was thinking of Highland Park, where you can indeed get a decent house with some character for $485K within walking distance to the Metra.”
There’s this:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Highland-Park/1927-Half-Day-Rd-60035/home/17628028
a total disaster in a non-prime location, but it’s over an acre and a half for $199k. Only real problem is those taxes!
“but it’s over an acre and a half for $199k”
That doesn’t really seem like a realistic price to base an offer in – isn’t the land probably worth $3-400k or so give the values in the neighborhood and the recent sale prices for that property?
“That doesn’t really seem like a realistic price to base an offer in – isn’t the land probably worth $3-400k or so give the values in the neighborhood and the recent sale prices for that property?”
Maybe. Certainly seems like the REO manager is looking for a bidding war, but that’s still the asking price. Anything in the MLS notes indicating a deadline to bid?
“Anything in the MLS notes indicating a deadline to bid?”
Nope. But the agent remarks say: “AGENTS THERE IS A MOLD DISCLOSURE THAT WILL NEED TO SIGNED BEFORE ENTERING HOME. FAX BACK TO 847-362-9625 THEN LB WILL BE GIVEN. = LOOK UNDER ADDITIONAL INFO. FOR THIS TAXES PRORATED AT 100% NO SURVEY PROVIDED SOLD AS IS”
Every time we pass that place on Half Day (I shop at the Dominicks there) I plan to look it up on Redfin then forget. I can’t believe this is all it’s listed at, it’s a fine looking place, at least from outside, and it looks like it was once a pretty nice place inside too. Completely unwalkable location but who cares?
Side note – the agent’s name cracks me up every time I see it, do you think she’ll throw a Blackberry at your head if you offer too low?!
You can see the mold on the ceiling of the basement picture. Black spots all over. Pretty gross.
“THERE IS A MOLD DISCLOSURE THAT WILL NEED TO SIGNED BEFORE ENTERING HOME”
“You can see the mold on the ceiling of the basement picture. Black spots all over. ”
Like I said, total disaster, but, if the bank would take $199, also a total deal, unless the mold is a result of or in connection with significant foundation damage. Leaky roof is a relatively small problem.
hey i am with JJJ, land value seems to be above asking price.
hmm 200k and then say another 300k for a modest new home built you really cant do any better 🙂
I’ve handled a few mold litigation cases over the years and I know a little about it, and this doesn’t look like a leaky roof problem. It looks like flooding, or structural, maybe even leaking pipes
http://media.cdn-redfin.com/photo/68/bigphoto/720/07811720_12_1.jpg
I kind of like this guy in HP (Ravinia), listed at 499:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Highland-Park/676-Green-Bay-Rd-60035/home/17616662
676 GREEN BAY Rd, HIGHLAND PARK, IL 60035
“leaking pipes”
also not a biggie.
Like I said, at that price, anything short of foundation problems makes the structure *potentially* salvageable.
But the problem with ‘land value’ is that there is not much land value right now because so few new homes are being started and sold April tied the April record set in 1982 and 2009 with only 32 thousand new homes sold. The record high for April was 116 thousand in 2005.
“Groove77 on May 25th, 2011 at 12:22 pm
hey i am with JJJ, land value seems to be above asking price.
hmm 200k and then say another 300k for a modest new home built you really cant do any better :)”
Leaking pipes (which are probably now fixed per the winterization stickers) are a big deal if it flooded out the house requiring gutting. It’s hard to tell and I’m not an expert, which makes for great speculation and conjecture.
“But the problem with ‘land value’ is that there is not much land value right now because so few new homes are being started and sold”
Not much land value in tract home areas; still some in in-fill areas where you need to tear something down to build new, or pay the freight for a used home. $200k is cheap for that amount of land in that location–not for a builder, but for someone wanting to live there. +$300k for a 2500 sf house, that’s cheaper than anything newish nearby, which would most likely be on a smaller lot.
Plainfield, of course, is a different story.
“requiring gutting”
I’m *assuming* that the place needs to be gutted based on the mold. I’m saying that, at that price, that’s not that bad. If you have to do something with the foundation, too, then it’s a teardown and a different story. Still, for the land, not bad, but + demo makes it less appealing.
But that’s what I’m saying anon(tfo), land plus demo is a lot less appealing, and realistically, fewer builders or buyers did that last month than any other april since 1982 and 2009.
HD–You’re either not actually reading what I’ve written, or being intentionally difficult. I’m saying that, for someone interesting in renovating and living in that house, assuming that there are no foundation/structure issues, even with the mold and *assuming* a full gut, that $200k is a pretty appealing price.
Not as an flip.
Not for a builder.
For someone interested in living in that location, in that style of house.
If you disagree, find me a similar sized house on a similar sized lot in a comparable location in a comparable part of Lake County (won’t limit it to HP, tho I should) that’s sold for less than $500k. No, Lincolnshire is not comparable, even if the HS is “better”.
“Not as an flip.
Not for a builder.”
thats where i was going 200k for the land and 300k for a modest house build.
your talking a 500k house brand new to your specs to live in, how can that be bad?
anon(tfo),
jjj said: “isn’t the land probably worth $3-400”
to which I responded: “But the problem with ‘land value’ is that there is not much land value right now because so few new homes are being started and sold April tied the April record set in 1982 and 2009 with only 32 thousand new homes sold. The record high for April was 116 thousand in 2005.”
so I was disagreeing with the land value. Now if you want to gut the structure and keep the foundation, then that’s not land value, the structure still has some value. A tear down is bought for land value and it’s hard to price these days because there are so few tear downs happening.
That’s all I’m trying to say, i’m not being difficult or even misreading what anyone is saying.
I can see maybe how ‘land worth’ could be interpreted differently from ‘land value’ but i took them to be the same. and if you’re looking at the property strictly from the worth of the land, you’re looking at a tear down where the structure has no value.
“your talking a 500k house brand new to your specs to live in, how can that be bad?”
On over 1.5 acres (they claim 1.91, but that doesn’t match the stated dimensions), in HP, tho not on a ravine, or east of GBR.
And you could gut and remediate the existing home for about the same–assuming, again–deadhorse, no foundation/structure problems.
“and if you’re looking at the property strictly from the worth of the land, you’re looking at a tear down where the structure has no value.”
You’ve been talking to me and Groove for a while, and we’re both looking at it from the *implied* land value of other houses–what’s it cost to build the exact same house, subtracted from the purchase price = land “value/worth/cost/whatever”–you can’t buy the house w/o the land, or the land w/o the house, but you could duplicate the house somewhere else for $X.
If you can build the (brand new) version of the house for $X, and the house for sale is $X + $250,000 (and in brand new condition), the land has an implied “value/worth/cost/whatever” of $250k–**whether or not you, a builder or anyone else would pay $250k for a vacant lot next door**.
Some lots will have negative implied value, many a minimal implied value. Which also doesn’t mean that someone would give you the neighboring vacant lot for $50, although that’s possible.
“And you could gut and remediate the existing home for about the same–assuming, again–deadhorse, no foundation/structure problems.”
and even cheaper option you provide, with the option for expansion you get a custom home for yourself. for the same price as the PP bungalow.
still i havent been on rt22 in a while but it wasnt *that bad then.
“But the problem with ‘land value’ is that there is not much land value right now because so few new homes are being started and sold April tied the April record set in 1982 and 2009 with only 32 thousand new homes sold. ”
Huh? You didn’t really just say that did you?
I guess we’re looking at things differently. That’s way more complex than the lot value for new construction as I’m looking at it.
During the boom the cheapest homes in many neighborhoods shot into the $300’s or $400’s or even $500’s because the builders were buying them up to tear them down. Now that in most neighborhoods (not north center, roscoe, etc), new construction has come to a standstill, you’re seeing crapshacks and older homes sell in the $100,000 and $200,000 for rehab instead – those prices would have never happened during the boom.
That’s all I’m trying to say what the land is worth – the structure has some value because nobody is going to tear is down and build new, and the lot in and of itself it were vacant would not sell for $300-$400 because no one would build anything there.
“and the lot in and of itself it were vacant would not sell for $300-$400 because no one would build anything there.”
No one would build anything there? Did you look at the satellite view? Buy this place for $199k. Build a house for 300k, and this place is worth WAY more than 500k.
See above – the builders set the value of vacant land and tear downs during the boom and now that new construction has been reduced by nearly 75%, the value of vacant land and tear downs has plummeted.
If this house is truly a tear down, it’s worth less than a comparable vacant land due to demo costs.
And that number is more difficult to determine because there’s a lot less transactions and so few buyers buying tear downs or vacant land to build new. 5 years ago, sure. Today?
“chukdotcom on May 25th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
“But the problem with ‘land value’ is that there is not much land value right now because so few new homes are being started and sold April tied the April record set in 1982 and 2009 with only 32 thousand new homes sold. ”
Huh? You didn’t really just say that did you?”
In theory you could build a new house for $300k.
But in reality, very very few people are going to do that in today’s market.
if these sellers want to try again in four or five years, sure. But today?
“Build a house for 300k, and this place is worth WAY more than 500k.”
“In theory you could build a new house for $300k.
But in reality, very very few people are going to do that in today’s market.”
yes thats way i prefaced it with the word *modest, as you can do it for 300k even less and build w/ the possibility of expansion at future times. and if structure is sound you are cutting cost even more and could do the expansion now.
“But the problem with ‘land value’ is that there is not much land value right now”
When you say “not much land value”, do you mean “not as much as 300-400K” or that there is “not much value to the land”?
“In theory you could build a new house for $300k.”
You would want to spend at LEAST 300k on the house in this neighborhood. Buy the land for 200k, build a house for 300k, and you could sell it for 700k+ the day you finish it.
“and you could sell it for 700k+ the day you finish it.”
as much inventory HP has right now i wonder if you could even sell it?
and why not build it to suit your family and just live in it and pass it down to the kids. not a bad area to do this.
If that were true than everybody would be doing it. That was true in 2005, 2006, 2007 and maybe in 2008, but that’s not true today. I’ve heard anecdotal stories of builders/contractors/remodels taking jobs that break even, just so they can keep busy and the idleness and bankruptcy that has descended upon their industry like a plague.
“You would want to spend at LEAST 300k on the house in this neighborhood. Buy the land for 200k, build a house for 300k, and you could sell it for 700k+ the day you finish it.”
Chuck, I meant not as much as $300k, not when that other highland park colonial house (granted on a smaller lot) was rehabbed and listed for under $500,000.
“If that were true than everybody would be doing it.”
Well, there aren’t that many properties selling for less than land value. Again, prices being down is meaningless. If you can buy something below CURRENT market value, you can make money on it. If you can buy a $2000 car for $1000, you can probably flip it for $1500. Doesn’t matter that the car used to be worth $30k.
“Chuck, I meant not as much as $300k,”
OK, that’s different. I thought you were implying the land value wasn’t worth much. However, I do think the land is worth $300k…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Lake-Forest/2600-W-Old-Mill-Rd-60045/home/17644811
The nearest unsold vacant land is this
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Highland-Park/1550-Museum-Dr-60035/home/18847402
I think you proved my point. The one that sold for $213,500 isn’t even close to being a comp.
“No survey, no termite, no disclosures.”
“No Utilities to Site”
Who knows what you can even build on that thing, and it still sold for $214k.
Bottom line, the land alone is worth $300k in that $199k listing.
“That’s way more complex than the lot value for new construction as I’m looking at it.”
Um, you were the *ONLY* one talking about it as new construction to a developer.
Your two examples are good. Esp. the HP one, which is basically the same size in an extremely similar location, and appears to have sold for $325k in ’98. Saying that this–if gut-reno-able as I keep beating on–isn’t a *deal* at $199k is more than slightly crazy. We know you wouldn’t pay it–and to be clear, I wouldn’t either, as I don’t have that big a project in me now, nor do I want to move–but that doesn’t mean someone who’s up for it won’t get a deal. **IF**
anon(tfo) – $199 with a gut reno IS surely a good deal, no doubt; and even $199 as a teardown isn’t too bad of a deal either (nearly 2 acres on the north shore!) BUT I don’t think it’s worth $300 or $400 like chuk and jjj think.
That’s it!
I actually like large sprawling ranches for their interiors, I prefer them actually, second only to gingerbread victorians, whose exteriors I love.
I’ve been saying for months that there are many more “deals” in the suburbs than there are in the city- so homebuyers should be looking out there (as in some of these Highland Park properties.)
The one linked to for $499k is interesting if only because it’s been on the market for 2 months and isn’t selling (was originally listed at $549k.) Yet it looks renovated. But some home buyers who live in condos are used to the wide layouts of newer properties and can’t live in the smaller 1930s-1940s layouts of these houses.
They’re also used to the huge master bedroom with big spa bath (shower and bath etc.) and then they look at these north shore “starter” homes and can’t do it.
The HP place isn’t really Highland Park – it’s closer to Deerfield or even Bannockburn/Lincolnshire. There are plenty of newly built empty homes sitting around here, I don’t know if there’s much of a market for another one right now. Building your own place or rehabbing this one would be a much better option.