Two Months Later, This 3-Bedroom SFH Under $550K is Still Available: 1911 W. Berenice in North Center
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom single family home at 1911 W. Berenice in North Center in November 2011.
See our prior chatter here.
I thought this might sell fast because:
- It was the cheapest single family home in the Bell school district, and
- It was the cheapest single family home in the Bell school district.
Alas, 2 months later, this house is still on the market and still listed for $545,000 or $20,000 above the 2005 purchase price.
Some of you thought it would sell for around $500,000 simply because of its school district. Others of you didn’t like the location (although the pizza discussion was interesting.)
Built in 1896 on a standard Chicago lot of 25×125, it has 1704 square feet on two levels. There is apparently an unfinished basement.
All 3 bedrooms are on the second level. The house also has an “updated” kitchen with white cabinets and stainless steel appliances. The listing also says there is a new 2-car garage.
The gate in the picture above is for the property next door.
And yes- there are still NO pictures of the bathrooms in the listing (I guess Mr. Sullivan hasn’t been reading Crib Chatter.)
Does this need to go under $500,000 to finally sell?
Kevin Sullivan at Coldwell Banker still has the listing. See the pictures here.
1911 W. Berenice: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, 1704 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold before 1991 (no price listed)
- Sold in December 2004 for $525,500
- Was listed on November 1, 2011 for $545,000
- Currently still listed for $545,000
- Taxes of $8618
- Space pak air conditioning
- Bedroom #1: 16×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 12×9 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 17×8 (second floor)
Post-holiday new MLS listings are showing another strategic drop in prices for those residential areas I’ve been tracking, and I’m not hearing “2012 is the year” optimism from real estate folks I deal with. Given uncertainties of the market and the economy, I’m seeing low-priced listings for attractive houses with asking prices far lower than I would have expected in early 2009. This particulara house is still an over-priced listing, and likely to remain on the market – though it only takes one motivated buyer to make a sale. At this price-point, now more affordable SF house choices in suburbs w/excellent school districts are a strong alternate housing choice for families who may have once sought a Bell house.
Buyers are obviously stupid for not snapping up this deal.
The problem with buying the one ‘deal’ on the market is that there will surely be a better deal to come along in the near future. The time to buy is when most properties on the market are priced as ‘deals’ and quite frankly, we are nowhere near that. I’ve seen elderly people take their vacant homes off the market; or keep them listed at a ridiculously high selling price, rather than take the significant price reductions needed to sell the home. These are vacant homes just waiting to be filled by families, it amazes me that few want to clear the market. So sure, one seller capitulates and lowers the price relative to everything else on the market; and that ‘deal’ gets snapped up. Then a few weeks later another seller capitulates and that deal is snapped up. It’s an excruciatingly slow process and frustrating nevertheless for buyers who want to buy but can’t because of all the crap on the market. It amazes me that in the areas I look there are literally hundreds of homes for sale and nearly everyone of them is extremely overpriced, fatally flawed (needs $100k in repairs/renovations, very small, no bathroom on main floor, no garage parking, etc). One house I’ve seen that looked like a deal has a kitchen window that looks into the attached garage! You can wash your dishes AND look at your shiny new car in the garage at the same time! Some flaws buyers can deal with: dated bathrooms, older kitchens, smallish room sizes; but other flaws like no parking, windows peering into the garage, no yard, busy street, etc, cannot be remedied by anything other than price. Price, for the most part, overcomes nearly all flaws, but when properties are priced as if it doesn’t have those fatal flaws, then of course it will sit for a long, long time.
The fatal flaw for this property is that it will be next to a patio dining area. $550k? Hell no. $300k? Maybe because there’s plenty of money left over for soundproofing the wall facing the patio.
I dislike this house and don’t care for this neighborhood. You can get something so much nicer in Sauganash for the same price.
I still don’t understand the appeal of this area. It always struck me as industrial and dumpy. (Although, I haven’t been around here in years.) Still, this house looks like a medium sized shack.
“I still don’t understand the appeal of this area. It always struck me as industrial and dumpy.”
Huh?
“The time to buy is when most properties on the market are priced as ‘deals’ and quite frankly, we are nowhere near that. I’ve seen elderly people take their vacant homes off the market; or keep them listed at a ridiculously high selling price, rather than take the significant price reductions needed to sell the home. ”
WRONG –
The time to buy is based on when the buyer wants/needs to move. If I have two school-aged kids in a bad school district, I am not going to wait several years so that I can save some money
Also, “elderly people” and people who have their homes paid off and can afford to wait, aren’t going to suddenly panic and lower their properties a significant amount. If they haven’t given in yet (and I am talking only about people who aren’t underwater and CAN afford their house), they aren’t likely going to be reducing their price. I went through a similar thing myself – I was irritated that my house was costing me so much in mortgage (8000/month) so I wanted to sell. While I can definitely sell for more than I have in a mortgage, I realized that there was nothing else that I wanted to live in that was comparable – also, even if I downsized, I still would be paying 4-5k/month which wasn’t that big of a savings compared to loss I would experience (in terms of convenience, comfort and financial) – so I WILL wait until the market improves. I only tell this little anecdote to make you understand the other side of the coin.
I really hope the buyers agent is aware of the beer garden butting against this house and is not concerned about commission and warns the buyer so he/she can make an informed decision
“I really hope the buyers agent is aware of the beer garden butting against this house and is not concerned about commission and warns the buyer so he/she can make an informed decision”
And bbq too according to anon. This would be a huge deal for me. I find it hard to do the tradeoff but I think I’d rather be west of western (where you can find cheaper Bell SFH) than next to beer garden with bbq flavoring, if I had to choose.
Nothing like a virtual tour that is really just a slideshow of the MLS pictures. They didn’t even bother adding music.
“This would be a huge deal for me. I find it hard to do the tradeoff but I think I’d rather be west of western (where you can find cheaper Bell SFH) than next to beer garden with bbq flavoring, if I had to choose”
i would rather overpay (2009 prices) for a 2/2 with no diningroom west of western in albany park next to a gangbanger corner with an underwater HOA than live next to a BBQ beer garden
“i would rather overpay (2009 prices) for a 2/2 with no diningroom west of western in albany park next to a gangbanger corner with an underwater HOA than live next to a BBQ beer garden”
So do I have to convert my dining room into a second bathroom or wait until my HOA sinks before you make an offer on my place 😀
“I really hope the buyers agent is aware of the beer garden butting against this house and is not concerned about commission and warns the buyer so he/she can make an informed decision”
‘And bbq too according to anon.’
I’m not so sure. The more I think about it, this could be a real asset for this house. If the new owner can somehow rig a pulley system from his dining room window directly into the restaurant kitchen….
He could get his slop bucket filled, maybe add a couple of beers, all charged to his running tab of course. Sure, he’ll have to hope that no drunken beer garden patrons spit in his food on the way back, but think of overall efficiency of the entire operation. Luckily this house is SO FAR away from the nearest public transportation; the new owners can really work off those extra calories trudging to work.
“So do I have to convert my dining room into a second bathroom or wait until my HOA sinks before you make an offer on my place”
If you could make your dining room into something randomly useless say a knitting room or a coal storage room then we will talk offers
“And bbq too according to anon.”
Week from Monday, supposedly. They may actually mean it this time.
jenny (January 4, 2012, 8:55 am)
I dislike this house and don’t care for this neighborhood. You can get something so much nicer in Sauganash for the same price.
I still don’t understand the appeal of this area. It always struck me as industrial and dumpy. (Although, I haven’t been around here in years.) Still, this house looks like a medium sized shack.
And you can get a 5 Bedroom 3 Car Garage with Home Theater in Lake in the Hills for the same price.
Who cares. Sauganash is NOT North Center.
This place is really a train wreck with the Beer Garden – Noise, Smell of BBQ,
Lunker, this neighborhood is about as dull as Sauganash and about as far removed from public transportation. The commute downtown would only be slightly longer and you wouldn’t have to deal with the seedy, worn down element of this area. For that matter, there are many other neighbors that are nicer than this one where you wouldn’t have to live next door to a beer garden for $500k+. What about OIP or Ravenswood or Andersonville?
The exterior of this house looks ramshackle. I just wish someone could explain to me why people like this area so much. I live in an area that others consider undesirable, but for me, it comes down to the commute. What draws people to this area other than the school?
“the seedy, worn down element of this area”
What the F are you talking about? You admitted in the last thread that you hadn’t been in the hood in a decade, and had NEVER been on the side streets.
What was your blessed U-Village like 15 years ago?
“What draws people to this area other than the school?”
Transplants who rely on word-of-mouth and do not venture too far from their comfort zone have been told that North Center is the New Lakeview
I’m the first one to criticize my neighborhood, but I have specific reason for living there. What is the reason to live here over any of the other nearby areas, which seem nicer? …and Lane still exists (which brings way too many young people into the area) and as far as I know so does that falling apart overpass stretch with fast food restaurants for high school students.
“as far as I know”
Which, as you’ve stated, ain’t much.
“the other nearby areas, which seem nicer”
Which nearby areas “seem nicer”? How so?
“Lane … brings way too many young people into the area”
UIC brings TONS (way more than Lane) of “young people” into your area–is that a big problem?
tfo, you ever get tired of righting the wrongs written about nort center?
CH:
It’s part of my outreach in defense of the great land tortoise.
I know jen wants to turn into a tortoise, or marry one. but what is the tortoise association with NC and this place in particular. do turtles live on this block? is it the Bell mascot? will the bbq place serve tortoise?
I looked at the old thread but I’m still not sure
Actually, I find some of the UIC students to be quite annoying, but it’s trade off for more affordable housing with green space, near the loop.
Excellent post HD, completely agree. And Clio – your counter argument is appreciated as well; I understand that for many buyers, there are intrinsic values that supersede financial ones when it comes to real estate purchases. My belief is that the majority of those buyers are those in the process of raising a family, and will take their money outside of Cook County for better schools. So that still leaves HD and I looking for deals.
I would equate the Chicago housing market to a low-volume stock, the bid and the ask prices generally have a very wide spread, and there is very little buying pressure. So why pay near the asking price when another “stockholder” (or bank) a week or a month later is going to willingly (or through means of foreclosure/shortsale, etc) dump their property 10-20% lower than what you just payed for? I’ve heard countless first hand stories of this happening for the past year.
Believe me, I WANT to buy a green-zone crib, I have 20% down, but I don’t want to be underwater on my mortgage within 3-6 months either. The reality of the market right now, which I believe will continue to fall as REOs/foreclosures continue to set the comps lower and lower and as unemployment remains stagnant, reaffirms my thought that practicality supersedes life-style stability for me. I’m young and single and can stick to renting and roommates until I feel it’s worth jumping in the market. Consequently, I am only seriously considering REOs at this time.
As for this property, I have to agree with what people have said about it being a very dull area. Definitely needs a second full-bathroom. Go to the suburbs if you want good schools.
“but what is the tortoise association with NC and this place in particular.”
I don’t understand the question.
“Actually, I find some of the UIC students to be quite annoying”
Surprise of the day! I really thought we’d be able to add “UIC students” to tortoises and fruit on the “like” list.
“take their money outside of Cook County for better schools”
Really? Need to leave the county to find good schools? Huh, learn something new every day around here.
“…and Lane still exists (which brings way too many young people into the area) ”
This site really needs an ignore feature
“and about as far removed from public transportation.”
Do you realize that this property is about a quarter mile from the Irving Park Brown Line?
“Do you realize that this property is about a quarter mile from the Irving Park Brown Line?”
That stop only got added in the last few years, right?
I remember my friend, who went to Lane telling me that it got so crowded on public transportation after school that she relentlessly bugged her parents until let her drive. ..all those bodies squeezed onto a bus or train. Blech. I suppose it’s the same near most high schools though.
“I remember my friend, who went to Lane telling me that it got so crowded on public transportation after school that she relentlessly bugged her parents until let her drive. ..all those bodies squeezed onto a bus or train. Blech. I suppose it’s the same near most high schools though.”
1. I thought we’d established that there is no public transportation anywhere near this area. You must be confused.
2. You get to leave work at ~2:30? If not, how would that affect you, as a possible owner of this house?
3. If your friend had lived in this house, she wouldn’t have needed to take public transportation home from Lane.
“Consequently, I am only seriously considering REOs at this time. ”
That can be tough if you’re not paying all cash. Many REOs are in troubled buildings where few lenders will lend.
Homeowners in Edgewater along Thorndale and Rosedale are well-versed in litter trail left by Senn students to-from El stop, but this Berenice house seems too far away from Lane for its students to be an issue. Abutting BBQ + restaurant patio, however, are two home value-reducing nuisances; the homeowners have my sympathy and perhaps alderman will help mediate what is likely to become a big big dispute over noise and smell.
“That stop only got added in the last few years, right?”
It was rebuilt and reopened in 2008… but that location has had a operating station for over 100 years now.
After reading through this post, the biggest thing I’ve learned is that jenny drove down Western Ave once.
there is also the option of the BBQ beer garden place falling flat and going out of business in 8 months, which would make the new buyers accidental geniuses.
or the new owners can plant roaches and rats and call the health inspector anonymously once a week until it get shut down
jenny (January 4, 2012, 11:03 am)
Lunker, this neighborhood is about as dull as Sauganash and about as far removed from public transportation. The commute downtown would only be slightly longer and you wouldn’t have to deal with the seedy, worn down element of this area. For that matter, there are many other neighbors that are nicer than this one where you wouldn’t have to live next door to a beer garden for $500k+. What about OIP or Ravenswood or Andersonville?
The exterior of this house looks ramshackle. I just wish someone could explain to me why people like this area so much. I live in an area that others consider undesirable, but for me, it comes down to the commute. What draws people to this area other than the school?
I like Sauganash but you can’t compare Sauganash to North Center. We keep getting in this debate with Clio and his obsession with the Jersey Shore Guido McMansions in Oak Brook and trying to compare it to a SF in any city neighborhood.
You can stretch compare Ravenswood Manor to North Center but OIP is out of the question IMO
“It was rebuilt and reopened in 2008… but that location has had a operating station for over 100 years now.”
Next you’re going to tell me that the amusement park closed.
Did they tear down a garage to make the Beer Garden? Google street view shows a 2 car garage next to this crib
“Next you’re going to tell me that the amusement park closed.”
1967
“Did they tear down a garage to make the Beer Garden? Google street view shows a 2 car garage next to this crib”
Yes.
“1967”
Well, thank goodness, the sort of crowds a city amusement park attracts is seriously detrimental to a neighborhood.
Do they still have the dirt racing track along the river? I hate the noise those race cars make, and find the sort who frequent those exhibitions especially unsavory.
anon (tfo) (January 4, 2012, 1:47 pm)
“Did they tear down a garage to make the Beer Garden? Google street view shows a 2 car garage next to this crib”
Yes.
That sucks for the current owners.
“That sucks for the current owners.”
The garage as, I beleive, for the apartments above Grizzley. Big Bricks has incorporated the 2d floor into the resto/bar space.
“there is also the option of the BBQ beer garden place falling flat and going out of business in 8 months”
The proprietors bought the building, and have been working on the project (zoning variance, etc) for almost 2 years. They ain’t letting it fall flat that quickly, and with the amount of work that went into it, it would just be a different resto/bar nhext–ain’t much chance of it turning into a yoga studio in the next decade.
“Next you’re going to tell me that the amusement park closed.”
it has to still be open i just hung a up a bill in a frame from it a few months ago?
“ain’t much chance of it turning into a yoga studio in the next decade.”
depends how you look at it, i would rather have a bbq place than a yogi’s crowding up the street.
anon
“take their money outside of Cook County for better schools”
Really? Need to leave the county to find good schools? Huh, learn something new every day around here.
For good public schools, yes.
“For good public schools, yes.”
Please elaborate, as i see it as the exact opposite.
Groove – The north shore and west suburbs have a plethora of great public high schools. Not to say there aren’t any great high schools in Chicago, but there are certainly more options in the suburbs.
“Groove – The north shore and west suburbs have a plethora of great public high schools. Not to say there aren’t any great high schools in Chicago, but there are certainly more options in the suburbs.”
I maybe wrong as i havent check in a while but the top 5 schools in all categories (elm/middle/highschool) all seem to be IN cook county.
“I maybe wrong as i havent check in a while but the top 5 schools in all categories (elm/middle/highschool) all seem to be IN cook county.”
Five schools/category sure, but does it have a plethora?
“The north shore … have a plethora of great public high schools.”
Like New Trier and Glenbrook North?
Both in Cook County.
Yes I’ve seen these lists, Cook County high schools fare very well in the top 10, I concede on that. But in the top 25 they taper off, which leads to my point that there are more educational options outside of Chicago that are just as good as those top 5. Not everyone wants to raise a family in a city; you get more bang for your buck too in the Suburbs.
“Five schools/category sure, but does it have a plethora?”
If Lake & DuPage each have a plethora of great public high schools, then so does Cook County.
“If Lake & DuPage each have a plethora of great public high schools, then so does Cook County.”
Jefe, what is a plethora? I just would like to know if you know what a plethora is. I would not like to think that a person would tell someone he has a plethora, and then find out that that person has *no idea* what it means to have a plethora.
“But in the top 25 they taper off, which leads to my point that there are more educational options outside of Chicago that are just as good as those top 5.”
There are more “educational options” in the city than there are in the suburbs–you buy your house, your kid goes to the attendance area school, no other option. Options are overrated.
You mean that you have more location choices that don’t involve compromises on school quality.
But that depends–for those precious little flowers being raised by all of us city-school-option-discussers, do you really think we’d jeopardize their development by saying “good enough” to (eg) Fremd–assuming that we could afford (and have a similar commute from) a house in (eg) Glenbrook North attendance area?
“If Lake & DuPage each have a plethora of great public high schools, then so does Cook County.”
If Cook County does not have a plethora of great public high schools, then Lake & Dupage do not (both have).
“Jefe, what is a plethora?”
Chefe, I’m not too sure myself.
But I can’t get my arms around the concept of too many “great public high schools” anywhere except, possibly, Finland.
You make a good point Anon, there’s obviously a compromise on many angles, financial practicality with quality of education. Not everyone can afford the single family home in east LP. But people obviously do jeopardize their kids development by going to those plethora of “good enough” schools outside of cook county. Look at all of the green zone 2/2s with cribs sitting on the market 🙂 Personally I would raise my kids in the city in a great school zone and sacrifice quality of real estate if/when money is an object. Some people obviously make the inverse sacrifice of that, and I think that’s ok.
DZ- I’m talking about collective schools in multiple suburbs vs those contained to Cook County.
“But I can’t get my arms around the concept of too many “great public high schools” anywhere except, possibly, Finland.”
I’z gotsta say, most skools in areas contolled by my ilk, skools pretty damn gud!
Not in the boonies and a perfectly charming 611 Roger, Kenilworth, SF house is listed at $499,000, in move-in condition, taxes $8100, about same size house but larger lot than Bernice house. Sears School, New Trier HS; walk to lake, to Metra station, to school, and yes, to Indian Hill CC. No BBQ beer garden, but room for your own garden. “Metra + Kenilworth walk” is arguably nicer daily commute experience than “El + NC walk”. We have friends w/kids stuck all over north-side; schools become a HUGE issue once preschool discussions begin; same friends are sick of the gross El experience. Bernice house is affordable and in Bell district, but BBQ/beer garden is function of unpredictability of mixed zoning in older neighborhoods.
1515 Lake in Wilmette is kinda nice, too. Also 499, taxes 9100. Right around the corner from Wilmette Metra stop. New Trizzle High Skizzle.
Too bad it is sold Clio….once again a failure of a comp….
was that one of yours, clambo?
God damn I hope all of clio’s irrelevant links are deleted. He was duly warned.
Personally, I don’t find Architect or Roma’s comps any better, hd…
HD – it is NOT irrelevant. It is the same price as the subject property and, since we were discussing schools in chicago vs the suburbs, it is absolutely the MOST relevant link.
Looks like Sabrina didn’t agree…
Architect: that comp on Roger in Kenilworth is a rental property, and it looks like it in person. Those pics look really great, but in reality that house isn’t much, and it borders the back of a commercial property. I bet is sells to an investor who will rent it.
It’s not relevant. There are plenty of people who want to live in the city who would gag at the thought of moving to Hinsdale, Highland Park or Winnetka. They’re NOT looking at both locations.
Sabrina, I disagree – people aren’t as narrow minded as you think. Look at HD – he would LOVE to live in the city – but knows that a SFH in a good school district in the city might be out of his price range so he is looking in the burbs. MANY people with kids are “on the fence” about where they are going to live for this same reason. In the past, people may not have considered Hinsdale/Winnetka because those areas were out of their price range. Now that they are cheaper, you better believe that many of these “city folk” are beginning to look in the suburbs. I am seeing it more and more every day…..
“I’z gotsta say, most skools in areas contolled by my ilk, skools pretty damn gud!”
But not a surfeit of them, no?
The cheapest house in Bell is in the 2400 block of Byron – listed by C-21 SGR.
“Look at HD – he would LOVE to live in the city – but knows that a SFH in a good school district in the city might be out of his price range so he is looking in the burbs.”
Yes- he is going to look in the burbs then. NOT both. Most people know what their price points are. They go on line and see that they can only get a 2-bedroom condo in their chosen city neighborhood in their price range. They don’t want that (as they want a SFH) so then they look solely in the suburbs.
That is fine for them. But someone looking at this North Center house isn’t also concurrently looking in Highland Park. They will look around the city, see that their money goes nowhere and THEN go wherever they get more bang for the buck.
Why doesn’t anyone compare this house to some of the vintage beauties down in Flossmoor right now? Someone could be looking in both North Center and Flossmoor, right?
This is a site about city properties. Occasionally for those areas that are on the border with the city, I’ll also cover similar houses in the burbs because yes, that is relevant. People DO look in Oak Park and Galewood, for instance. But just because you would choose between North Center and Hinsdale doesn’t mean everyone else reading this site would. There are more towns/neighborhoods in the suburbs than just the 5 to 7 that get mentioned here every single time.
“People DO look in Oak Park and Galewood, for instance. But just because you would choose between North Center and Hinsdale doesn’t mean everyone else reading this site would”
….and likewise, just because YOU like Oak Park and Galewood doesn’t mean everyone else “reading this site” would either (believe me, there are more people than not who would rather live in Hinsdale than Oak Park or Galewood).
Delete all the links!
Clio, reading comprehension fail. The point is that people cross shop Oak Park and Galewood. Nobody does that in North Center and Hinsdale or North Center and Highland Park.
“Clio, reading comprehension fail. The point is that people cross shop Oak Park and Galewood. Nobody does that in North Center and Hinsdale or North Center and Highland Park.”
I understand that – but that is because many do not know what is out there (not because they don’t like Hinsdale or Highland Park – they just don’t know any better). Honestly, despite what you guys may think, the typical home buyer is not that savvy or careful when picking out where they buy. Most go with what is familiar without researching other areas. If I didn’t have job restrictions, I would have a field day picking from homes in areas very different than Oak Brook/Hinsdale.
“Delete all the links!”
HD – deleting my links/posts is not going to make the reality disappear. I understand why you are feeling anxious – you probably have only a couple of more weeks until sellers start becoming more confident (justified or unjustified) and the spring market madness takes effect. Sellers WILL set their prices higher in anticipation (whether it results in a sale or not remains to be seen – but prices will be higher). This delays your purchase yet again…….
I want to leave the city because I’ve heard time and time again from ‘people in the know’ that high school is problem. I’ll just fix that problem right now by avoiding it all together.
Architect elucidated perfectly why city valuations for us 99%ers are doomed. roma had another example.
If I had a family without a doubt I’d go for wilmette or kenilworth over city living. And it sounds like both of those locations are far more walkable than the generic levittown suburbs blanketing the nation..
“Clio, reading comprehension fail. The point is that people cross shop Oak Park and Galewood. Nobody does that in North Center and Hinsdale or North Center and Highland Park.”
bingo!!!!! andy nailed what has been said repeatedly and CLIO/Clio/clio should have got the first time with his top notch education. you can teach a book but you cant teach smarts.
why does each listing 85% of the time turn to a burb debate?
on to my main man Elliot,
“Cook County high schools fare very well in the top 10, I concede on that. But in the top 25 they taper off,”
doode it should taper of in the top 25 as the state of Illinois is pretty darn big, the fact that one county has the top ten locked almost all by itself trumps your view on this. If you were to argue population density as a factor that would be valid but your saying to get the BEST schools you need to leave cook county is just false on many levels.
“But someone looking at this North Center house isn’t also concurrently looking in Highland Park.”
Didn’t look in Highland Park, but did look in the NT Ws, E’ton, OP/RF, along with LP/OT/RV. Were we doing so again with full hindsight, would look at (and likely, but not certainly, dismiss, after due consideration) Hinsdale and Deerfield (aka, not Crook County), too.
“Deerfield ”
that is one overlooked burb on this site, very affordable and actually really nice. would rather if going out that way do Riverwoods but then affordability is lost there.
but anon your very detailed and analytical, so you would cross shop these areas and maybe add in “Elmhurst” and Mt prospect. i think sabrina is talking the average in the cross shop premise.
“Didn’t look in Highland Park, but did look in the NT Ws, E’ton, OP/RF, along with LP/OT/RV. Were we doing so again with full hindsight, would look at (and likely, but not certainly, dismiss, after due consideration) Hinsdale and Deerfield (aka, not Crook County), too.”
Yeah, I gotta think that most families looking at SFHs (in prob a pretty wide price range) will seriously cross shop the city and burbs at some point. We certainly have. At some point, maybe early on for some, may rule out burbs and focus on city, or vice versa.
“but anon your very detailed and analytical, so you would cross shop these areas and maybe add in “Elmhurst” and Mt prospect. i think sabrina is talking the average in the cross shop premise.”
Who here looking for SFH did not cross shop (there has to be some seriousness threshold, not sure how to define exactly, but you prob know yourself)? Groove, I know you have. I do know some people for whom personal circumstances made either the city or burbs a no brainer but I think most people cross shop seriously. Even anonny, who loves ELP more than most of us will ever love anything, has talked about burbs at times.
“I gotta think that most families looking at SFHs (in prob a pretty wide price range) will seriously cross shop the city and burbs at some point.”
To clarify, I mean of the population who have some interest in SFHs in the city. I can believe there are large swaths of people who head straight for (or never leave) the burbs and if you expand out far enough, they’ll become a majority.
“Who here looking for SFH did not cross shop (there has to be some seriousness threshold, not sure how to define exactly, but you prob know yourself)? Groove, I know you have.”
Yes i have cross shopped the northshore and two years ago we were perusing Naperville pretty hard, that was only because of a SHORT TERM PANIC of having our first child.
yes i have always cross shopped Oak Park/River Forest because well i live right by it. when we first bought we ruled out OP/RF asap as prices where out of our reach then, we also cross shopped Norridge (you can stop laughing now) but found a way better dollar value where we are at.
Groove, I laugh far less at Norridge than Naperville…. I do sure hope that was a momentary panic!
We are cross shopping too since we are in a somewhat flexible situation. I now work in the burbs and Mrs Icarus is seeking a new job though may likely stay downtown. I would prefer a northwest side home in the city limits with good access to expressways and the EL, however she is becoming seduced by how much more your $ buys in the burbs.
Hey Mr. Groove – never said that the suburbs had the *best* public schools, they certainly don’t (by certain objective standards) compared to Cook County. Your population density argument is one I overlooked, and I could’ve better phrased my original comment that one should, “Go to the suburbs if you want good schools” as I was speaking in the context of a person looking to buy a SFH in a “good enough” school district. I certainly didn’t mean to imply a negative connotation to Cook County public schools (which I think is what catalyzed this debate).
I’ve heard of a few couples looking for SFHs in Cook County AND the suburbs and I know a couple right now who is doing that. Of course a few anecdotal accounts doesn’t prove anything holistic, but saying that just because buyers are looking at a SFH in North Center means they aren’t looking elsewhere is a rather generic and presumptuous statement.
“Groove, I laugh far less at Norridge than Naperville…. I do sure hope that was a momentary panic!”
Norridge was 10+ years ago and with less buying power, Naperville was a momentary panic
but i aint gonna lie if you can stomach living there you can get large square footage and a large lot for a small price and decent prop tax bill.
We didn’t consider suburbs when looking for our SFH in the late summer. Only city nabes.
“however she is becoming seduced by how much more your $ buys in the burbs.”
Icarus bro, also rememeber that with a large house it will cost more to cool and heat plus maintain. a larger lot take more to maintain.
with Com Ed showing us that they have our politicians in there pocket i would be cautious of the non visible (or overlooked) tangibles like that.
That is true…but I could never stomach living there. I think I’d take Schaumburg over Naperville although both over Joliet.
That is true…but I could never stomach living there. I think I’d take Schaumburg over Naperville although both over Joliet.
“I think I’d take Schaumburg over Naperville although both over Joliet.”
I agree, and I hate Schaumburg. Have you ever met someone from Naperville? There almost as unbearable as people from San Francisco.
“I’ve heard of a few couples looking for SFHs in Cook County AND the suburbs and I know a couple right now who is doing that.”
You realize Cook County has Chicago and suburbs, right?
““Go to the suburbs if you want good schools” as I was speaking in the context of a person looking to buy a SFH in a “good enough” school district.”
in that context i can get behind your words.
I will argue that Bell elementary, i think this house is in, is more than “good enough”. but that just me trying to argue 😉
I for one think if you going the burb route then one should just hightail it out of crook county alltogether, but not because of the schools
Groove, don’t you think Preckwinkle is trying to turn things around?
“I for one think if you going the burb route then one should just hightail it out of crook county alltogether, but not because of the schools”
Yeppers.
Naperville, for all its praises (newer and bigger houses, decent schools, consistently ranked a “top place to live” nationally, etc.), is just so darn far away.
I had to drive to the Quad Cities a few times last month, and I swear Naperville felt like the halfway point.
We’re in the process of looking for a newer car, and plan to head out to some burbs over the next couple of weekends to some dealers. If we head towards Naperville (and we probably will), we’ll need to build in at least a couple of hours for driving time.
Groove, have you seen that house on the 300 block of south Clinton we once talked about in OP is still for sale, down to $499? Did you ever see it? What gives with that place, years on the market, $100’s of price reductions and still no interest?
You know, I’m not saying the Berenice house is a primo location (though not at all as undesirable as Jenny makes it out to be), but that Kenilworth house is on a dumpy block. Next to a paint store and you can walk out every morning and see the village water tower. Who wouldn’t want that? The rest of the houses on that block look tired and in need of some TLC.
“Icarus bro, also rememeber that with a large house it will cost more to cool and heat plus maintain. a larger lot take more to maintain.”
True dat. We’ll just get a fire place and burn some of HD’s old briefs to keep warm (the court briefs, not the other kind).
“If we head towards Naperville (and we probably will)”
Why? If you want to test drive, surely there’s closer (and now I’ve betrayed my ignorance of super luxe/desirable cars available only in nville). If you want to negotiate, do you have to do in person, other than pick up?
“the court briefs, not the other kind”
Both would work though….
“Groove, don’t you think Preckwinkle is trying to turn things around?”
first year first term, most try to turn things around early. she and the rahmfather are on full throttle if you see the same three years in a row we will talk then.
“Groove, have you seen that house on the 300 block of south Clinton we once talked about in OP is still for sale, down to $499? Did you ever see it? What gives with that place, years on the market, $100?s of price reductions and still no interest?”
was on the way to early dinner at winnberries on lake and oak park swung by there its smack in front of (i think brooks) school that is a three story modernish building. decided to swing by on a school day, well thats the street they park all the school buses and they close the street during drop off and pick up hours.
didnt even want to go to a showing, redfin notes paint is bad on outside if you walk by it it doesnt look that way.
“True dat. We’ll just get a fire place and burn some of HD’s old briefs to keep warm (the court briefs, not the other kind).”
as frugal and tight as HD is its best to keep to his court briefs his BVD’s are about 22 years old
Vlajos – You realize Cook County has Chicago and suburbs, right?
Whoops! Meant to say Chicago vs. Suburbs – should’ve known that considering I grew up in Oak Park!
“Why? If you want to test drive, surely there’s closer”
DZ,
Subrban super car stores have many different car brands/manufactures on a large lot. unlike here were its just a VW dealer. In one “long” stretch of street one dealer will have VW, GM, KIA, Jaguar, Saturn, Datsun, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Fiat, TaTa, Lincoln, and Cadillac
So basically everyone here agrees with me regarding “cross shopping” and comparing SFH in the city to SFH in the suburbs – yet everyone marks the “thumbs down” on my comment. Is this a joke? cuz I’m not understanding it…. (yeah, I know – more “thumbs down” and jokes about me “not understanding” anything).
“Subrban super car stores have many different car brands/manufactures on a large lot. unlike here were its just a VW dealer.”
Yes, but I’d think there’s something convenient that’s closer than dreaded nville (dislike for which is the only thing that unites everyone here, except for juliana). What are you buying anonny?
Maybe it’s because I have MLS access and can more easily look at properties all over (well, it’s pretty easy for everyone to do that now with Redfin but perhaps a little easier with direct access) but I cross shop all the time. I would imagine that most cross shop initially but eventually decide on city or suburb by the time they get an agent and setup their MLS auto searches, since most agents probably aren’t keen on setting up multiple searches for different areas for their clients or working with a client that doesn’t have a firm idea as to what they want. That being said, agents can’t really cover that much ground effectively.
I dunno if groove is aware of car trends but two of those brands were killed recently, one brand was killed a decade ago and a fourth was renamed over a quarter century ago.
“The point is that people cross shop Oak Park and Galewood. Nobody does that in North Center and Hinsdale or North Center and Highland Park.”
That statment is a fail. I’m cross shoping SFH North Center, and SFH Hinsdale…..
…and the 10th will never use that name… btw Bob.. they kill the anglos as well. Shopping for some new seats LR Britania is quoting 8k pounds for a pair of relabeled Recaros. Sonies is in for a treat 🙂
I agree that people cross shop hinsdale and north center. same demographic can afford the home.
Looking to buy: “That statment is a fail. I’m cross shoping SFH North Center, and SFH Hinsdale…..”
HD: “I agree that people cross shop hinsdale and north center”
Sabrina, it’s not just me – your readers have spoken……
DZ – I’m not entirely sure what kind of car we’re looking for. At this point, I’m thinking a Subaru Forester or a Honda CRV, likely around a 2009 or so, but we’re open to other/similar makes and models. I haven’t ruled out either buying one of those types of cars new, or perhaps leasing something slighly higher end (we’re very low mileage drivers, so we’d consider buying the leased car at the end). Honestly, I’m quite clueless about the whole car search.
“winnberries”
is overpriced…
“Honestly, I’m quite clueless about the whole car search.”
car salespeople are the biggest morons on the planet, just remember that and try not to get too frustrated, car shopping blows!
Sheesh. So, I have a home in Naperville and I am seeing lots of bashing here. It has been a great place to raise kids and has a lot of history, not some burb cut out of a corn field like Schaumberg. What is your sample size for determining the unbearable-ness of Napervillians? Do you display such intolerance towards other groups of people? And as far as being “so far away”, the commute into the loop on Metra is about 30 minutes during rush hour. But who has time for singing the praises of Naperville when there are fascists out there that need to be set straight?
“agree, and I hate Schaumburg. Have you ever met someone from Naperville? There almost as unbearable as people from San Francisco.”
You just added to my ever increasing sample, Juliana. ; )
Naperville is far closer to cornfields than Schaumburg is. To get to parts of Naperville I have to drive through cornfields. There are no cornfields between Chicago and Schaumburg. Just saying…
“Naperville is far closer to cornfields than Schaumburg is. To get to parts of Naperville I have to drive through cornfields. There are no cornfields between Chicago and Schaumburg. Just saying…”
Yeah, and there are no cornfields between the loop and Gary Indiana. Just saying…..
“Yeah, and there are no cornfields between the loop and Gary Indiana. Just saying….”
I wouldn’t live there either. 🙂
Not saying there aren’t cornfields close to Naperville, just that the town has been around a lot longer, and has a lot more services than Schaumberg, which is primarily known for the Woodfield Mall. Naperville actually has a thriving downtown and a historic district. Pretty sure the schools are better in Naperville. and also, what is the commute in from Schaumberg, so I can compare it with my half hour from Naperville? Even adding in my five minute drive to parking, I think Schaumberg is far more remote.
“Naperville is far closer to cornfields than Schaumburg is. To get to parts of Naperville I have to drive through cornfields. There are no cornfields between Chicago and Schaumburg. Just saying…”
Old Naperville is actually pretty cool but since the city has grown so fast over the last few decades at least half the city is suburban crap subdivison sprawl that you would find anywhere
And once again its over 30 minutes on the express trains, and if you don’t happen to catch one of the three of them you’re looking at a 50+ minute train ride if all goes well
“Schaumberg”
Might want to spell Schaumburg right too. 😉
the spell check police strike again. should i start reviewing your posts for grammatical errors? oops, no caps! my bad.
“Might want to spell Schaumburg right too.”
the spell check police strike again. should i start reviewing your posts for grammatical errors? oops, no caps! my bad.
It must be those great Naperville schools! 🙂
Don’t worry Juliana, I’m just teasing you. Naperville is a fine place to shop in…I’d just never live there and can’t help but poke fun at the town sometimes.
OOOPS! 33 minutes! you are right again! that is a whole three minutes over the 30 minutes I rounded too. Guilty as charged! Only time I take the slow trains is when I want to read a little before I get to where I’m going.
“And once again its over 30 minutes on the express trains, and if you don’t happen to catch one of the three of them you’re looking at a 50+ minute train ride if all goes well”
juliana, don’t feed the trolls – the majority of people on this site don’t have kids (or don’t have school-aged kids). Once they do, they will realize Naperville is a great place to raise a family (and yes, chicago is great too – but only if you have an incredible amount of money/patience, etc.).
too=to, before you spell checkers bust me again…
“the spell check police strike again”
That should be spell-check or spellcheck, no? Or perhaps spell Czech?
My dream home in the city closed today.
Does anyone post the listing history on this?
Thanks
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4323-N-Kostner-Ave-60641/home/13480936
Double lot: Check
Near the highway: Check
Old Irving: Check
Oh yeah!
Vlajos (January 5, 2012, 9:43 am)
“I think I’d take Schaumburg over Naperville although both over Joliet.”
I agree, and I hate Schaumburg. Have you ever met someone from Naperville? There almost as unbearable as people from San Francisco.
Ha! They think its the cats meow like they are living in Kenilworth or something. I agree unbearable.
homedelete (January 5, 2012, 1:10 pm)
My dream home in the city closed today.
Does anyone post the listing history on this?
Thanks
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4323-N-Kostner-Ave-60641/home/13480936
Double lot: Check
Near the highway: Check
Old Irving: Check
Oh yeah!
What were you waiting on for it to hit late 1970’s pricing? Looks like a friggin steal
Naperville is nothing special at all. Just a big city’s hub for local yokels but the interesting thing is so many drink the kool aid they genuinely believe the place is perfect.
You can tell most haven’t travelled to proxy burbs in other metros or else they’d realize Naperville is just Irving, Texas but with higher taxes & shittier weather.
4323 n Kostner definitely chased the market down– i saw it when it was listed in the high $300 or so. it needs updating and the swimming pool turned me off. I didn’t know Groove or any of the cribarati then so i couldn’t invite you all over for a remove the pool/build a garage party.
“What were you waiting on for it to hit late 1970?s pricing? Looks like a friggin steal”
yeah HD what made you hold off on this one?
“What were you waiting on for it to hit late 1970?s pricing? Looks like a friggin steal”
1. He didn’t want to low-ball and get blacklisted by the realtors. Worse than being a commie in Hollywood in the 50s, I tell ya.
2. Bet Mrs. HD didn’t like it.
“What were you waiting on for it to hit late 1970?s pricing? Looks like a friggin steal”
He was too busy checking out Naperville….
HD would get along just fine in Napville.
wow Hd, only a mortgage of $859 a month on a 30 year fixed @4% with 20% down… thats a good deal!
As well as only $294 a month in taxes, even YOU could afford that $1153 a month!
I feel bad you missed out on your dream house!
““winnberries”
is overpriced…”
but never had a bad meal, wine, desert, or experience there so price is subjective.
Juliana,
We had this argument before, Its a 3 year wait at the Naperville metra station and the 33 minutes is only the express train which if you miss in the morning or evening your are screwed.
so really its not a option.
““What were you waiting on for it to hit late 1970?s pricing? Looks like a friggin steal””
he was disappointed the Magikist sign isnt still there, total through off his barometer.
Mrs hd actually hated it
Too many things we both didn’t like. Iirc this was listed in the 500’s in 2007 etc.
Pool was a turn off
No shower upstairs
Listed in the high 300’s when I saw it.
“We had this argument before”
True of almost everything here. All that’s left is for JMM to show up to tweak juliana about gaap or non-gaap or something, G to remind JMM of his case shiller failings, clio and miumiu will get in the mix somehow, and then he whose name cannot be spoken will show up with either a video tour or racist rant depending on which one of the unspoken ones it is. Oh and DZ will bug homedelete about his expressway proximity tolerance.
“Mrs hd actually hated it”
How close is she willing to live to xway?
In Vjalos: I would fit in much better anywhere in mchenry county than I would anywhere in naperville.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Park-Ridge/606-Wesley-Dr-60068/home/13648588
This is too close to the hhighway. One block in, sure. But this is too close.
WAIT WAIT WAIT – HD has the biggest voice when it comes to sabrina deleting “irrelevant” links – and here he is linking away to properties that have nothing to do with the subject. This guy is the definition of “hypocrite”!!!!! Oh, and by the way, HD – no woman is going to agree to live in those crappy houses you are linking to…..
“This is too close to the hhighway. One block in, sure. But this is too close.”
considering the context this is the funniest thing said on cribchatter by far
“True of almost everything here. All that’s left is for” …. I do have to come in and remark on the Chicken Tenders with Honey Mustard Sauce that I just made, after smokin some nice Hindu Kush… which by saying Hindu brings back Riz, his Electra complex for his fathers cars, and then mention by he who shall not be named (but takes more forms than the holy trinity), of some Road that I assume smells like Tandori Chicken.
“clio (January 5, 2012, 2:32 pm)
HD – maybe the wife would like this:”
Again reading comprehension fails you.
the man hinted to mchenry county so you should provide a link like this;
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Algonquin/1511-N-River-Rd-60102/home/17799173
but clio it is getting cramped in that uptown basement studio. Remember last summer when HD was gone for a week presumably dealing with that flash flooding we had? I can only imagine him getting jolts from a partially submerged shop vac trying to get it up
“This is too close to the hhighway. One block in, sure. But this is too close.”
Isn’t that because there is no entrance/exit ramp? Why live by the highway if you can’t get on it?
“you should provide a link like this”
I’m sure HD would be interested at the ’99 price.
Of course, that ’99 price was for a vacant lot or a teardown.
“I’m sure HD would be interested at the ’99 price.
Of course, that ’99 price was for a vacant lot or a teardown.”
does that really matter to him anyway, its 1997 levels or nothing
“I’m sure HD would be interested at the ’99 price.
Of course, that ’99 price was for a vacant lot or a teardown.”
What impresses me, is that someone with such small testicles could have a baby.
” I do have to come in and remark on the Chicken Tenders with Honey Mustard Sauce that I just made, after smokin some nice Hindu Kush… which by saying Hindu brings back Riz, his Electra complex for his fathers cars, and then mention by he who shall not be named (but takes more forms than the holy trinity), of some Road that I assume smells like Tandori Chicken.”
Typical Jew – thinks they can poke fun at others’ religion with impunity. However, say something funny about Jews, Judaism, etc. and all of a sudden, Rabbi Goldiamond and the law offices of Bernstein, Epstein and Cohen are serving you with papers!!!! That’s OK – just own your hypocrisy!!!!
“That’s OK – just own your hypocrisy!!!!”
What Hipocrisy… I’m still laughin at the Rabbi Goldiamond comment…
So you get dropped off, walk if you’re close enough, or get a spot in one of the church (or other business) lots like we did.
As far as express trains go, you are not stuck with only one in Naperville. There are 5 for the morning commute, getting you to Union Station in 32-35 minutes, and 4 for the afternoon commute, with a 32-33 minute ride back to Naperville. Other than those, there are other morning commute trains that make limited stops and get in quicker than the milk runs, same with the evening commute. Check the schedule for yourself (BNSF) if you doubt it.
“We had this argument before, Its a 3 year wait at the Naperville metra station and the 33 minutes is only the express train which if you miss in the morning or evening your are screwed.
so really its not a option.”
“What Hipocrisy”
Yeah, seriously…when I think Ze, I think hiphoprisy, and there ain’t anything hypocritical bout that.
anon, where do you get all of your knowledge of this obscure stuff?!!!
“What Hipocrisy… I’m still laughin at the Rabbi Goldiamond comment…”
ze, you are a better man than me!!
“So you get dropped off”
Hey, everyone, Juliana is offering to put us all in touch with FREE (ok, gotta pay for gas, and maybe provide a car) around-town drivers if we live in Naperville.
“So you get dropped off, walk if you’re close enough, or get a spot in one of the church (or other business) lots like we did”
Wow all that seems like a hassel, a solution yes, but now way in heck will it take only 33 minutes door to door with these hoops and variables, it seems if one variable falters you miss the express then are late have to work longer then in turn miss the express home.
“ze, you are a better man than me!!”
Only below the waist Clio, only below the waist!
No, but you’d be surprised how many stay at home mommies do the kiss ‘n ride each morning. Lots of corporate transplants.
“Hey, everyone, Juliana is offering to put us all in touch with FREE (ok, gotta pay for gas, and maybe provide a car) around-town drivers if we live in Naperville.”
“it seems if one variable falters you miss the express then are late have to work longer then in turn miss the express home.”
Sticking in the theme of things.. would that one variable off, be all the damn Jews waking up early to take all the church spots? 🙂
“it seems if one variable falters you miss the express then are late have to work longer then in turn miss the express home.”
Or, if you have a job where you leave when you are ready to leave, whenever that doesn’t line up with the express train schedule, you’re stuck another 15 minutes at the office when you don’t really want to be. Same in the mornings. To have to make a given express train, would be a major PITA.
In any event, hard to see how *true* door-to-door is much under an hour. Maybe if you work right by union station.
“Sticking in the theme of things.. would that one variable off, be all the damn Jews waking up early to take all the church spots?”
Juliana didn’t mention anything about synagogues…they must not have any Jews in Naperville.
I didn’t say 33 minutes door to door, got to add in walk (lots of great houses in the historic district are close to the station) or drive (ours was 5 minutes to the lot, 5 minute walk to train, so extra 10 minutes), plus walk from station to work (5 minutes), so my commute was about 50 minutes door to door. I’ve had worse. In fact it was probably about the same, maybe more, when I lived on North Lakewood (south of Irving). Much longer walk to the train, then waiting for the train, slow train, crowded. All in all, the Naperville commute felt like a luxury in comparison.
Wow all that seems like a hassel, a solution yes, but now way in heck will it take only 33 minutes door to door with these hoops and variables, it seems if one variable falters you miss the express then are late have to work longer then in turn miss the express home.
“you’d be surprised how many stay at home mommies do the kiss ‘n ride each morning”
I wouldn’t be surprised, but that is not a workable arrangement for many (most?) people, even in that income tax bracket. How do you afford your Naperville lifestyle?
“they must not have any Jews in Naperville”
They were smart enough to buy up the lakefront just in to Lake County!
“my commute was about 50 minutes door to door”
I can do that on a bad (but not horrible) day on CTA, with walking (!!gasp!!) about a mile in total (combing both sides). Have made it door to door in just over 30 when everything works nearly perfectly (bus/train/etc), which is about 10-15% of the time.
“so my commute was about 50 minutes door to door”
I’ll bet it was really more like 55-60. Not that you couldn’t do it in 50, but that a realistic average counting when you actually left the inside of your home to sitting at your desk was 55-60.
my commute azz-to-azz was roughly 22 minutes today
that is breakfast table chair to desk chair. Naperville will not provide that then i am out
“counting when you actually left the inside of your home to sitting at your desk ”
The walking time thing is funny–half a mile is too far to walk, bc it takes 35 minutes, but a third of mile (counting from your train seat to street level, across the bridge and into your elevator lobby) is only five minutes.
I don’t mind walking. But for some reason when I think of those old CTA commuting days, I remember the days when the weather sucked. Frozen toes were pretty common, considering that I was usually wearing fashion boots or pumps. Then, getting on the overheated el, swaying with the crowd as I clung to the pole or strap, if I was lucky to get one. Wanting to take my coat off, but being satisfied with unbuttoning it if I could manage. First freezing, then sweating. Ah, yes, I remember it well. I suppose things have changed for the better?
So, for that extra 15 minutes I get 30 minutes of comfortable reading on a roomy seat on the Metra. I always have a backlog of reading, so it works for me.
“I can do that on a bad (but not horrible) day on CTA, with walking (!!gasp!!) about a mile in total (combing both sides). Have made it door to door in just over 30 when everything works nearly perfectly (bus/train/etc), which is about 10-15% of the time.”
4323 N Kostner listing history (1,711 days of market time):
4/30/2007 Listed $624,900
6/11/2007 Price Change $614,900
9/4/2007 Price Change $599,900
9/24/2007 Price Change $574,900
10/1/2007 Price Change $569,900
10/21/2007 Price Change $524,900
12/26/2007 Cancelled $524,900
12/26/2007 Listed $524,900
1/28/2008 Price Change $499,999
5/27/2008 Price Change $469,000
6/30/2008 Price Change $450,000
9/3/2008 Price Change $425,000
1/2/2009 Cancelled $425,000
1/2/2009 Listed $425,000
1/21/2009 Price Change $415,000
3/10/2009 Price Change $399,900
2/8/2010 Price Change $349,900
8/19/2010 Cancelled $349,900
8/19/2010 Listed $329,900
1/1/2011 Cancelled $329,900
1/1/2011 Listed $320,000
4/21/2011 Price Change $299,500
8/15/2011 Cancelled $299,500
8/18/2011 Listed $290,000
10/9/2011 Price Change $280,000
10/28/2011 Contract
1/5/2012 Closed $225,000
“So, for that extra 15 minutes I get 30 minutes of comfortable reading on a roomy seat on the Metra.”
I also can go to my kids doctors appointment school things etc without taking a half (or full) day off work.
“4323 N Kostner listing history ”
Wow!
Think they could have broken $500k in 07, if they’d started at $525 in April? Would have sold for 2x final price for sure, tho (had they started at the right place), right?
The CTA is almost comical in their incompetence. The other night saw 3 red line trains in a row heading north but their signs said 95th. CTA spent a bunch to renovate francisco station but wrong kind of wood used its rotting already. Also why the hell are they still using _wood_ in the 21st century? Its almost like they pretend its still 1900 so they can keep putting people to work redoing those platforms every 15 years.
Okay so 5 days into 2012 we have established that there are advantages and disadvantages over City versus Suburban life and EL versus Metra.
Please add it to the CC wiki and move along.
“I also can go to my kids doctors appointment school things etc without taking a half (or full) day off work.”
GREAT POINT, i have only missed on doctor visit with the kid (including sick visits and first time parent visits) all because i am so close plus the traffic a 10 am is nill i can fly around the city.
Thanks G. I’ve been following teh kostner house since ’09. that’s a pretty crazy listing. talk about chasing the market down.
and it’s been vacant all these years too.
“30 minutes of comfortable reading on a roomy seat on the Metra”
I took metra for the first time maybe 2-3 years ago. Always thought it would be nicer on the inside. Better than cta, but was really quite disappointed. Plus crappy broadband signal on BNSF line.
Again, the stay at home mommies are usually on call for such things. And also volunteering at their kids schools, attending plays, dragging kids to soccer or dance lessons, etc.
“I also can go to my kids doctors appointment school things etc without taking a half (or full) day off work.”
“Better than cta”
Barely
“Please add it to the CC wiki and move along.”
Got something interesting? Please share. Seriously. It is pretty desperate here.
“Again, the stay at home mommies are usually on call for such things”
yes my wife is a stay at home mommy, and i still do those things as a family, both of us together.
its nice to be involved, and nice to meet the wife and kid for lunch, and nice i am home to spend time with the little squirt, nice to meet them at a class in the afternoon just to watch them and say hello.
Cant do that tied to a metra schedule!
” the stay at home mommies are usually on call for such things”
Yeah, but I *WANT* to be there. It’s not an oppressive obligation, it’s something I would miss not being able to do.
Hard to do for most people who work in the loop, both city and suburb dwellers.
“yes my wife is a stay at home mommy, and i still do those things as a family, both of us together.
its nice to be involved, and nice to meet the wife and kid for lunch, and nice i am home to spend time with the little squirt, nice to meet them at a class in the afternoon just to watch them and say hello.
Cant do that tied to a metra schedule!”
“yes my wife is a stay at home mommy, and i still do those things as a family, both of us together.
its nice to be involved, and nice to meet the wife and kid for lunch, and nice i am home to spend time with the little squirt, nice to meet them at a class in the afternoon just to watch them and say hello.
Cant do that tied to a metra schedule!”
“Hard to do for most people who work in the loop, both city and suburb dwellers.”
My wife stays at home and I work in the loop, and I definitely value being able to get home when I can make an activity or a park district class. In nicer weather they come downtown to millennium park or something else a couple times a month and I’ll join them for part of the time. And there is also value in knowing I can always get home in 10-15 min by cab if I need to.
“Hard to do for most people who work in the loop”
That’s about job, not physical possibility. Yes, *most* people can’t time shift their work. But *many* can, and it’s much easier for most of those who have that flexibility to “take a long lunch” and stay a little late than it is to just leave for the day at 11:30 (or whatever). And living in the city provides that option, where being dependant on express trains doesn’t.
And if you are the boss, or have a good one, you have the flexibility to take off the occasional morning to attend the Halloween parade of school play. Also, most school events take place at night, to accommodate working parents, so they are not missing everything. I think most daddies are not interested in being on call 24/7. I understand the need to hover/not miss anything. My dh did not share that need with me.
“That’s about job, not physical possibility. Yes, *most* people can’t time shift their work. But *many* can, and it’s much easier for most of those who have that flexibility to “take a long lunch” and stay a little late than it is to just leave for the day at 11:30 (or whatever). And living in the city provides that option, where being dependant on express trains doesn’t.”
“Also, most school events take place at night, to accommodate working parents”
Haha.
“I understand the need to hover/not miss anything.”
Oh, I miss plenty, but it’s by choice, not because I can’t put off Task X to Time Y, or have run out of favors.
HD (and others)
How about this for a mere $200k?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3238-N-Panama-Ave-60634/home/13544381
Well, that’s how they do it in Naperville. School plays, concerts, open house: all at night, even for elementary schools. ymmv.
“Haha.”
“Sticking in the theme of things.. would that one variable off, be all the damn Jews waking up early to take all the church spots?”
Don’t they have experience standing in cars & packing ’em in? 😀
“Don’t they have experience standing in cars & packing ‘em in? ”
Don’t let anon tell you otherwise, that was kinda funny.
“HD (and others)
How about this for a mere $200k?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3238-N-Panama-Ave-60634/home/13544381”
I have noticed that that particular agent lists short sale prices well below market and the properties never sell for those prices.
“you have the flexibility to take off the occasional morning to attend the Halloween parade of school play”
Good luck with finding an express train after…
Right. So part of the morning off is the extra half hour commute time.
“Good luck with finding an express train after…”
“True of almost everything here. All that’s left is for JMM to show up to tweak juliana about gaap or non-gaap or something, G to remind JMM of his case shiller failings, clio and miumiu will get in the mix somehow, and then he whose name cannot be spoken will show up with either a video tour or racist rant depending on which one of the unspoken ones it is. Oh and DZ will bug homedelete about his expressway proximity tolerance.”
Ha! Ha! Too true. I love it.
It’s the dog days of winter, I’m afraid (sans the snow.)
We’ve high-school aged kids, and our friends too. We’ve all been school-focussed since preschool days. (One LD student) We lived in Edgewater w/babies, then noted “school selection/selectivity” dance and moved to OP/RF. For white-collar professional couples residing in Chicago, preschool can be finessed, grammar school can be neighborhood parochial school in a pinch, but HS is crunch-time. Even if high tuition costs are affordable, admission is NO guarantee – even large donations and connections don’t work. (Except for Rahm/Jordan ilk) We have friends who were shut out of preschool, private school, and/or selective enrollment school, despite bright well-behaved kids, financial resources, and even connections to school boards. Some got lucky late in enrollment process, some opted for Montessori for upper-grades, some moved to suburbs. This constituency doesn’t want blue-collar Catholic HSs (St Ben’s and Gordon Tech). It’s become very hard to get into Ignatius and Loyola. Jones Prep and Lane can seem too “urban” for a white-collar white family. School limitations, particularly middle and HS, are a HUGE motivating force for white-collar flight from Chicago – can we agree?
When we were looking (2001), OP/RF HS was an inner-ring Cook County HS with high SAT/ACT scores for white students that ALSO had affordable SF housing stock. Deerfield, Lincolnshire, and Riverwoods all considered, but didn’t like commute, housing stock, or Riverwoods’ mosquito/flood plain conditions; We looked at North Shore, but were discouraged by prices, New Trier parents’ cautions regarding poor experiences of mid-achievement students, and commute – also saw a lot of underfurnished North Shore houses which suggested overextended homesellers. We liked OP/RF due to easy commute, beautiful housing stock, and relative school quality. LD student’s experience has been good. (LD experience in CPS likely ineffectual if not disasterous per direct reports from dismayed CPS LD parents).
CPS school quality (particularly at HS level) is probably single motivator for white-collar professional flight from Chicago proper. Handful of selective enrollment HSs is not solution; white white-collar households’ students need to be near perfect scholars to gain entry to Northside Prep or Peyton. (Same white students rejected at Northside/Peyton become honor students at Ignatius.) Not everyone spawns genius high-achievers.
Complaints from white-collar professional north-side Green Zone households (narrowly-defined) won’t improve overall quality of available HS slots; CPS has many conflicting priorities, including extremely high drop-out rate and chronic severe underachievement. Vast majority of Chicago’s neighborhoods are comprised of blue-collar lower-middle-class households, frequently multi-generational, often poorly educated and sometimes uncertainly employed. I’ve spent many hours on southwest and west sides touring neighborhoods; Chicago is still a predominantly blue-collar working class city, and that profile fits most voters. The proposed new ward map heavily favors south and west ward representation, to maintain relatively high balance of black aldermen even though black flight is a major demographic change in past decade. The hispanic working-class population is HUGE; that’s demographic most likely to seize political control of Chicago in the next mayoral cycle IF a single hispanic candidate emerged. (Machine-raised Edgebrook-residing Gery Chico doesn’t fit profile.) Adding more prep-quality schools to satisfy north-side white-collar super-achiever professional households won’t become Number #1 priority for CPS with its limited resources and politically-drive agenda. Note that Rahm’s kids go to Lab School; I think that was a political statement in itself.
Great post architect. The only things about OP/RF that I don’t like is that it is an island of wealth surrounded by a sea of urban grit: austin to the east; maywood/bellwood to the west; elmwood park to the north (Which is no longer the Italian/Greek home base of the ‘outfit’). Secondly, OP/RV is not middle class, it’s very upper middle, if not upper class. A quick search shows very few homes for sale under $400,000; with more home sales over $400k in the last year than under $400k (west of austin at least); and geographically, the RV/OP area is pretty small; It’s basically a little piece of teh north shore (at least the part of the NS that would NEVER elect a Mark Kirk) directly west of teh city.
“Jones Prep and Lane can seem too “urban” for a white-collar white family. School limitations, particularly middle ”
F ’em then. If Jones and Lane have too many black kids, they *should* just move to the suburbs. OPRF is likely too black then, too.
“Note that Rahm’s kids go to Lab School; I think that was a political statement in itself.”
Yeah, and in part it was a statement of “if my kids got into NSCP–straight up on tests, or with clout–*everyone* would assume that they were clouted in and I’d have to hear about it *every* year, so it’s just easier to suck up the $75k+/year to send em all to one school”. If it were I making the same decision, I would have done the same thing. Exactly. The. Same. For the reason I stated, which, when you’re a politician, IS a political statement itself.
“School limitations, particularly middle”
Why is it that the only people who seem to understand that CPS doesn’t have “middle schools” (ACs and IB do NOT count) are those who support CPS?
“west of austin at least”
East of Austin is Chicago. Do you mean Ridgeland?
“This constituency doesn’t want blue-collar Catholic HSs (St Ben’s and Gordon Tech). “:
does this mean those schools aren’t much better than CPS?
“does this mean those schools aren’t much better than CPS?”
No, it means that Architect’s friends’ biases are on the snooty side of snooty. St Bens right now has a pretty white collar parent population, at least in the Elem grades. Lotso people who live within Bell area send their kids to Bens.
Lot of Architect’s post makes sense especially w/r/t LD child. Can’t tell yet if li’l Giardiniera has any particular requirements on that score.
But I too am surprised that he dismisses Lane and Jones out of hand. We’re close with one family that had good experience at Jones and with a couple others for whom Lane worked very well. “Urbanity” notwithstanding, Lane’s campus is attractive and its rep is good enough for us… hope both are still intact come 2025. Payton or Young or NS Prep better, sure, but if we’re living contentedly on the north side and the choice is Lane-or-move, easy choice to pick Lane.
“But I too am surprised that he dismisses Lane and Jones out of hand.”
He dismissed them for not being white enough, and he used the proxy of a generic “white-collar family” to provide deniability.
” especially w/r/t LD child”
This *is* a no-brainer. With an LD child, if you have any resources at all, you just have to run away from CPS. I firmly believe that that circumstance is partly intentional on CPS’s part, tho of course not “official policy”.
“No, it means that Architect’s friends’ biases are on the snooty side of snooty”
Which then explains why they put up with that for two years. Snooty people just don’t seem to understand the effectiveness, that releasing an entire cartridge into someones door at 3a.m.,will have on people becoming more considerate neighbors. (angling up, and unregistered of course)
Architect’s post was about 90% garbage.
“but if we’re living contentedly on the north side and the choice is Lane-or-move, easy choice to pick Lane.”
Yep
I wonder how many people have actually been inside Lane and observed. If your child is on the honor track it’s fine but I many would be surprised by the classroom experience at the regular level.
Yeah you and 30,000 other parents still living contentedly on the northside too. You’d have to be either a fool, or naive, or both, to disregard the wisdom of Architect’s post. Yes, it comes from an upper-middle class perspective but today’s upper-middle class is really all that’s left of yesterday’s middle class; and most of the middle class vacated the north side years ago.
“Vlajos (January 6, 2012, 9:28 am)
“but if we’re living contentedly on the north side and the choice is Lane-or-move, easy choice to pick Lane.”
Yep”
Homedelete,
There is much more to Oak Park than north of lake street and west of ridgeland. Yes, that part is the most north shorey and expensive but all of OP is a good place to live.
Growing up, I lived at division and ridgeland, kenilworth and Chicago and ridgeland and Roosevelt so I sampled a decent range of OP and in many cases I liked the last place the best. Oak park claims such great diversity but you generally won’t see it unless you leave north of lake/west of ridgeland, and no you won’t get jumped.
I just hope we can get our kid(s) into Parker or Latin in junior-K and be done with it. If we get over the admissions hurdle, I’ll deliver pizzas at night and on the weekends to meet the costs if necessary. Otherwise, it’s Lincoln elem (unless we move into Alcott or Ogden), then roll the dice come HS, and be prepared to spend the HS years up in Wilmette if Lane, etc. is a no go. I suppose there are worse fates.
Lane looked like a lot of fun when Goldie Hawn coached there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIdGBLcVsxM
“We have friends who were shut out of preschool, private school, and/or selective enrollment school, despite bright well-behaved kids, financial resources, and even connections to school boards.”
Garbage. Enroll the kids in the Chicago Virtual Charter School (CPS) and spend $20k a year per child (you said they had the financial resources) on a private tutor that will spend 3-4 hours a day in direct one-on-one education. The kids then spend the rest of the “school day” doing the computer lessons. They will run circles around their peers.
Our nanny has a degree in education (with honors) and maintains active certification. Universities are churning out thousands like her every year – but there are no jobs. Take advantage of the situation. Both sides of the transaction benefit.
I know someone with a soph boy at Northside Prep and he hates it, says the whole school is “filled with weirdos”, and sports is reportedly totally deemphasized there. There is rumor that the archdiocese is going to take over Gordon Tech and turn it into a college prep, which makes sense as the GZ needs another option besides Loyola and St. Ignatius.
“New Trier parents’ cautions regarding poor experiences of mid-achievement students”
can Architect or anyone else elaborate on this?
” Take advantage of the situation. Both sides of the transaction benefit.”
But that’s harder than just moving to [‘burb X], and home skooled kids are weird anyway, and home skool parents are like a cult, and and and.
Plus, your neighborhood is too “urban” for a white-collar white family.
“I just hope we can get our kid(s) into Parker or Latin in junior-K and be done with it. If we get over the admissions hurdle, I’ll deliver pizzas at night and on the weekends to meet the costs if necessary. Otherwise, it’s Lincoln elem (unless we move into Alcott or Ogden), then roll the dice come HS, and be prepared to spend the HS years up in Wilmette if Lane, etc. is a no go. I suppose there are worse fates.”
No St. Ignatius? We see who wears the pants……
“There is rumor that the archdiocese is going to take over Gordon Tech and turn it into a college prep, which makes sense as the GZ needs another option besides Loyola and St. Ignatius.”
Loyola is in Wilmette and Roosevelt and Blue Island ain’t exactly GZ.
Basically, you’re saying the GZ needs *a* selective catholic HS that is at least close to the GZ. Which is probably true. Question whether GT is the *best* location, but it is probably the most available in a reasonable location.
“No St. Ignatius? We see who wears the pants”
Doing that from memory, or are you keeping a log?
annony is the anti-Rahm Emanuel, as he believes that religious schools associated with one’s ancestry are bad, stupid, ignorant, etc. which is the opposite of how our mayor thinks.
“Basically, you’re saying the GZ needs *a* selective catholic HS that is at least close to the GZ. Which is probably true. Question whether GT is the *best* location, but it is probably the most available in a reasonable location.”
No, I’m saying that Catholics who live in the GZ only use Loyola and St. Ignatius as prep options now, and if they turned Gordon Technical HS into a college prep, it would make sense as there would be demand.
So, that would be a log?
You managing it thru a wiki? Icarus would like to add a few things, but they may be off the primary topic–could you let him have access to the platform?
dan doesnt need a log. if you dislike “others” as intensely as he does it cant be tough to keep track of them
Dan, I knew it was you! Happy holidays.
I attended Catholic school (through 9th grade, then attended CCD through graduation), was an altar boy for five years, and belonged to CYO (I also quit the Boy Scouts just shy of making Eagle, in a troop that convened in the back of a Protestant church). The whole nine yards. However, while I personally had good experiences with that background, I know plenty of folks who did not. And when it comes to an educational environment, why would I opt for a system that forecloses inquiry and stymies intellectual growth? Not to mention an institution that continues maintain destructive and intolerant official policies.
“Architect’s post was about 90% garbage.”
I disagree, its 100% relevant as too many have this view and end up leaving the city.
if the view is wrong or not is not what bothers me, its the fact many act on his type of view is what truly is a loss for Chicago.
Benjamon9 (January 6, 2012, 9:39 am)
Homedelete,
There is much more to Oak Park than north of lake street and west of ridgeland. Yes, that part is the most north shorey and expensive but all of OP is a good place to live.
Growing up, I lived at division and ridgeland, kenilworth and Chicago and ridgeland and Roosevelt so I sampled a decent range of OP and in many cases I liked the last place the best. Oak park claims such great diversity but you generally won’t see it unless you leave north of lake/west of ridgeland, and no you won’t get jumped.
Oak Park is great if you want ridiculous high taxes and want to border a complete Ghetto where they just shot an off duty cop working security at a convinience mart.
I don’t see anywhere where an Oak Park school ranks in the top 20 in Illinois. Actually OPRFt ranks 56th.
Lane Tech ranks 6th in all of Ilinois
How do you like dem apples?
Not talking about complexion of “urban”; Ignatius has a very integrated student body – racially and socio-economically speaking. There are plenty of kids from wealthy households, and plenty from working-class homes. Ignatius “pulls” from a fifty-mile radius, and admitted only 30% of its self-selected applicants for this year’s freshmen class. My comment re: “urban” was directed towards student behavior, classroom decorum, and school focus. Go tour Ignatiuis, then go tour Lane – two very different school experiences.
Gordon Tech, St Scholastica, and St Ben’s are very small HSs at present. Their enrollments have dropped dramatically over the past three decades. It takes a great deal of effort, parent recruitment, and financial resources to rebuild enrollments. Catholic HSs generally are self-supporting and run through their Catholic Order’s administrative offices, not archdiocese, I think Gordon Tech is owned and operated this way too. Catholic elementary schools are mostly run by Archdiocese, mostly at a loss by individual schools with some parish subsidy in addition to tuitions. Sacred Heart/Hardy Prep is not archdiocese run.
Many New Trier parents of boys have noted that New Trier HS is great for high-achiever, focussed and competitive students, but can be a miserable experience for an average B (or lower) male student. Competition is fierce; academically and socio-economically, and nonstellar student can get lost in administrative shuffle. (We’ve heard about fantastic experiences for hyper-achiever girls.) After the fifth couple cautioned us about New Trier (kids were still in preschool), we expanded our search radius to OP/RF and Deerfield/Lincolnshire.
“New Trier HS is great for high-achiever, focussed and competitive students, but can be a miserable experience for an average B (or lower)”
I’ve heard the same thing, for many years, from graduates, too.
And Deerfield HS would get my vote for “best public HS in Cook County for non-selective enrollment”, for non-stellar typtical B students. (Excellent students would do well there too.)
Regarding OPRF HS stats: drill down to white student performance, and you’ll see it can match best HSs in Cook County. OPRF has a minority student underachievement problem. For the B student graduating from River Forest, OPRF provides a strong academic experience via its “honors classes” and excellent college placement opportunities. OPRF is really four HSs in one building: college prep, general ed, and self-contained “special ed” and “behavioral” units.
My wife works in CPS and previously worked in the suburbs. She has also observed, student taught, and worked temp positions at a variety CPS schools. In light of her experiences and recent research into the option of home schooling, she believes that home schooling will provide the best education for our child. The lack of resources, very large class sizes, student discipline issues, and general apathy toward learning that she observes among many students are some of the main reasons. If we could afford private school we would go that route and if we lived in the boundaries of a highly regarded elementary school we would probably consider that route, too–though many of the issues noted above–lack of resources (notwithstanding private fundraising efforts–my wife is pretty much equipped with just a chalkboard) and very large class sizes (which makes it difficult to differentiate) seem pretty widespread in CPS. On the topic of home schooling, I think that home school co-ops may become more common as families wish to stay in the city but can’t access the type of education that they want to provide–it’s something we’re looking to put together by the time our child reaches preschool age.
Basically that means Deetfield HS is better than NT for 90%+ kids yet most parents are too biased+stupid to see that.
Architect (January 6, 2012, 11:38 am)
Regarding OPRF HS stats: drill down to white student performance, and you’ll see it can match best HSs in Cook County. OPRF has a minority student underachievement problem. For the B student graduating from River Forest, OPRF provides a strong academic experience via its “honors classes” and excellent college placement opportunities. OPRF is really four HSs in one building: college prep, general ed, and self-contained “special ed” and “behavioral” units.
Much better options out there than OPRF. Actually 55 High Schools in the State of Illinois are better.
Have to rank them somehow.
On top of that you pay one of the highest taxes in Cook County. Probably for increased Police protection. I don’t care what anyone says Austin is a Ghetto. 15 is one of the highest crime districts in the CPD. I got plenty of buddies who work in 15 as coppers and heard many a stories.
Annony: I went to Catholic elementary and HS too, hated the experience, but don’t view all Catholic schools as same. If you’ve kids who are approaching HS age, then go check out Ignatius (Jesuit) during a school day; it’s not the repressive Catholic school of my day. Many Ignatius kids aren’t Catholic.
Chris M homeschooling can work out for the better but be aware of the pitfalls–ie socialization and recognition of ones place in a bureaucracy/organization and independence.
Come to think of it in undergrad, which was a big public university, dont remember any home schooled peers and those from smaller towns/highschools seemed to disproportionately quit/fail out more.
I’m not saying CPS is a productive bureaucracy by any means only that surviving through it or any large HS teaches these valuable skills.
Noone is there to do wellness checks or hold hands at any respectable post-k12 university.
OPRF taxes beat private school tuition, much less LD school cost. Just means that you need to re-evaluate your housing cost situation once you don’t need the public school infrastructure. If we both didn’t work downtown, and didn’t have a child who needed closer supervision and support, then we could have settled on Deerfield, Riverwoods, or New Trier. (Taxes are comparable for comparable house/lot, by the way) But we didn’t see anything we liked enough to merit the drawbacks, and OPRF works much better for US.
anonny:stignatius :: Architectfriends:stbens
“And Deerfield HS would get my vote for “best public HS in Cook County for non-selective enrollment””
While there is a smidge of Deerfield attendance area south of Lake-Cook Road, Deerfield HS is *definitely* in Lake County (ie, part of the plethora).
“In light of her experiences and recent research into the option of home schooling, she believes that home schooling will provide the best education for our child.”
[Sincere q:] Would she feel the same way if you were in the burbs (which I realize will depend on the burb)?
“On the topic of home schooling, I think that home school co-ops may become more common as families wish to stay in the city but can’t access the type of education that they want to provide–it’s something we’re looking to put together by the time our child reaches preschool age.”
Maybe one of the the preschool coops would be a starting point for getting a critical mass of parents (query how many people you can have before it stops being home schooling). There is at least one v good one (as best as I understand) around logan.
“[Sincere q:] Would she feel the same way if you were in the burbs (which I realize will depend on the burb)?”
Yes and no. We moved to Oak Park for the schools and probably would’ve been content with them, too, but she hadn’t even explored the home schooling option yet at that point. One of her concerns with the classroom experience is that a few disruptive kids can really drag down the class–and a lot of time is spent on classroom management as opposed to educating. She observed this at Gwendolyn Brooks in Oak Park and observes it now at Lane (on a side note, she mentioned that Oak Park tracks students to the point that the schools are really separated along racial lines–as Architect mentioned in his post on OPRF high–and it is true that the performance is VERY different among racial lines there and at ETHS, so I guess in reality it’s less of an issue that one might expect). That basically was the launching point for exploring alternative options. I, personally, would be OK with some of the suburban options but I think she also has developed some philosophical disagreements with public schooling by now. It seems that home schooling has mostly been realm of religious conservatives but I could see that shifting–at least in urban environments–as families want to stay in the city but don’t want to navigate the system or can’t successfully. And I’m sure that, to some degree, the choice is influenced by the fact that we’d have to realize a large loss on our LS house to move on (we could but it would be easier to just to stay put and we’re mostly happy).
“Maybe one of the the preschool coops would be a starting point for getting a critical mass of parents (query how many people you can have before it stops being home schooling). There is at least one v good one (as best as I understand) around logan.”
Perhaps. I’m probably preaching to the choir when I say we know a lot of families with young children in the area–some thinking about schools already but many have not. I know that they would choose to stay if their child’s education wasn’t a concern. My wife connected to a lot of the stay-at-home-moms in the neighbohood–many of them former teachers–and I think there could be a lot of critical mass to get something together–maybe to the point where it’s no longer a true “home schooling” experience and closer to a private school setting. I’m still skeptical of the “Friends of Darwin” movement–for reasons I mentioned before. Came up last night with a neighbor who left teaching at Goethe a few months ago and she agreed that what happened at Nettelhorst, Alcott, etc simply can’t happen at LS schools because kids aren’t being bussed in and the surrounding neighborhood is uniformly affluent like Lakeview or Lincoln Park.
The greatest advantage that home schooling can provide is the one-on-one interaction between the teacher and the student. An hour of one-on-one is worth 4, 5 or more in a classroom setting. Doing it right requires a dedicated care-giver or hired help. Either one is expensive – either in cash, giving up a career, TIME, etc.
Home school co-ops can be a recipe for mediocrity, though certainly no worse than a school environment. You need a “community” for extra-curricular activities, though these are organized via the internet easily enough.
“and the surrounding neighborhood is uniformly affluent like Lakeview or Lincoln Park.”
*isn’t*
“why would I opt for a system that forecloses inquiry and stymies intellectual growth? Not to mention an institution that continues maintain destructive and intolerant official policies.”
That’s your opinion based on being a lapsed/quitter type, and nobody, in anything, dislikes as intensely as the lapsed person does. Ask Rahm Emanuel why he sent his kids to such a school, he totally disagrees with your views.
Can some people give some more info/color on the issues B students and avg.-IQ types have at NewTrier?
“nobody, in anything, dislikes as intensely as the lapsed person does”
More wiki material.
“How do you like dem apples?”
Lunker, you missed my point, I was talking about Oak Park the village, not the HS. Also, I’m all for CPS. I think Lane is a good school and CPS has many schools that are even better. You definitely do not need to go to OPRF or other suburban schools to get a good education!
“OPRF is really four HSs in one building: college prep, general ed, and self-contained “special ed” and “behavioral” units.”
That was my experience as a student there. It’s been quite awhile now…so I can’t speak of today. However, being in the honor track, I recieved a great education. However, when I did take one “regular” level course, I did see that unless you were on the honors track you weren’t recieving the same education, not that it translates into a bad education, just not as great of one perhaps.
OPRF taxes beat private school tuition, much less LD school cost. Just means that you need to re-evaluate your housing cost situation once you don’t need the public school infrastructure. If we both didn’t work downtown, and didn’t have a child who needed closer supervision and support, then we could have settled on Deerfield, Riverwoods, or New Trier. (Taxes are comparable for comparable house/lot, by the way) But we didn’t see anything we liked enough to merit the drawbacks, and OPRF works much better for US.
You don’t get it. OPRF is 56th in the state.
There is no bragging point about Oak Park schools. You have no access to a top 10 high school living OP.
But you pay some of the highest taxes in Cook and it borders one of the biggest crime areas of the city – Austin.
“More wiki material.”
I’m gonna have to quit my day job to keep up. is this really an interesting subject or are the other props featured today/this week simply “meh”?
“I’m still skeptical of the “Friends of Darwin” movement–for reasons I mentioned before. Came up last night with a neighbor who left teaching at Goethe a few months ago and she agreed that what happened at Nettelhorst, Alcott, etc simply can’t happen at LS schools because kids aren’t being bussed in and the surrounding neighborhood [isn’t] uniformly affluent like Lakeview or Lincoln Park.”
Thanks for the detailed response on everything, Chris. I’m agreed with you on Darwin. Of the people we know well who have options, don’t know anyone sending kids to Darwin. I don’t know that a “turnaround” can’t be done there but I’m pretty sure not in time for us. Also, Pulaski has yet to fill up solely with neighborhood kids, so it may further siphon off potential kids from Darwin. But wish them well of course.
PS Looking forward to new italian grocer opening soon (2643 milwaukee).
So? Oak Park borders Austin. Big news there! The Gold Coast used to be close to Cabrini, did that make it shit?
Have you ever been to Oak Park much less lived there? Many people discussing it here have and/or lived there. I trust their word much more than yours spouting statistics if you’ve never actually been/lived/experienced it.
“I’m gonna have to quit my day job to keep up.”
You guys have jobs? I thought we were on here full time.
“You guys have jobs? I thought we were on here full time.”
Apparently HD has a new one
http://chicago.everyblock.com/announcements/jan06-bummed-out-bankruptcy-atty-storefront-4642387/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=message_email&utm_campaign=headline
“So? Oak Park borders Austin. Big news there! The Gold Coast used to be close to Cabrini, did that make it shit?”
Actually Benjamon, yes it did. Up until the early 90s. The neighborhood went into decline for many years, and residents of Cabrini preyed on the residents in the Gold Coast because it was easy to get to.
I used to talk to a lot of people who lived in the Gold Coast in the 70s and 80s in my last job. One guy said his mother stuck it out in her house on Astor, and he wished she didn’t. His comment was along the lines of “It wasn’t safe to walk around the area at 2pm on a sunny Tuesday.” Another guy I talked to owned a property, think it was a rental. He sold in ’96, but a female tenant was assaulted by an intruder in her unit in ’95.
Renewed interest in the area and the slow destruction of Cabrini made the area a lot safer, a la Lincoln Park’s renewal.
That is a decent location actually because there is parking. If I had a little more drive, or my hand was forced, I’d open up my own office too. But it’s difficult to turn down a job that pays me fairly well, pays my tolls, my gas, my CTA/Metra, my own staff members, freedom to do whatever I want, great job security in the form of way way way to much work to handle in a 50 hour workweek, extremely hands off partners, performance bonuses, referral bonuses, no weekends (voluntarily which no one does), few late night, variety, collegial atmosphere with more than a dozen other attorneys. It’s tough to turn that down for the prospect of being my own boss and maybe to make what I make now. few solo or small firm guys doing BK make what I make now. My household made over 10% more than it did last year not including the non-compensation perks we get. It’s hard to give up a fairly decent and consistent ‘good’ thing for something that may be better, far better, or conversely worse, far worse. I don’t have a bad life. The guy who signs my paycheck always says “law is a marathon, not a race” and I’ve got over 30 years left and if I’m doing OK at 10 years hopefully I’ll do even better over the next 30. Yeah there are other lawyers out htere at larger firms working longer hours, making more, far more, than me. but amoung my cohort and I defense/BK/midsize firmed associates I see I do about just as well, if not slightly better. and with that, I’ll knock on wood, and go visit a clietn this friday afternoon. adios
“You guys have jobs? I thought we were on here full time.”
I think I keep running into problems, finding a job, because I keep writing CC as previous employment and Clio as my reference.
“Many New Trier parents of boys have noted that New Trier HS is great for high-achiever, focussed and competitive students, but can be a miserable experience for an average B (or lower) male student. Competition is fierce; academically and socio-economically, and nonstellar student can get lost in administrative shuffle.”
I still don’t get this. The majority of people everywhere will sit in the middle of the bell curve on anything. So what if kids aren’t a big fish in a small pond, isn’t life a big pond anyway? That’s life. Will kids have a “miserable experience” at the very large University of Illinois too? I think passing up New Trier to go to a GBN, Deerfield, Highland Park, or Stevenson is nuts, esp. given tribal cliques and self-segregating types that inhabit those suburbs and schools.
Why is it “miserable” to be average at New Trier, any more than it is being avg. at a large university, or living in the GZ in Chicago, etc.? Thanks.
“Why is it “miserable” to be average at New Trier, any more than it is being avg. at a large university, or living in the GZ in Chicago, etc.?”
Because HS, and teenagers, are generally more miserable than the other places?
Seriously, do you not remember HS, or were you just that in with the in crowd that you totally missed anyone else’s (mostly petty-teenaged, but still real enough to the kids) misery?
So? Oak Park borders Austin. Big news there! The Gold Coast used to be close to Cabrini, did that make it shit?
Have you ever been to Oak Park much less lived there? Many people discussing it here have and/or lived there. I trust their word much more than yours spouting statistics if you’ve never actually been/lived/experienced it.
Rating: +2 (from 2 votes)
Yes several times. Good restaurant district and nice housing stock
I don’t like being that close to Austin, the high Property taxes and mediocre schools
“I don’t like being that close to Austin, the high Property taxes and mediocre schools”
skip oak park and its taxes, live in Galewood and pay for HS Trinity/Fenwick and you’ll save not only on your property taxes but mortgage, insurance, interest, flooding, most uber liberals in oak park, and sanity. did i mention all the $$$ you save and still are the same proximity to all oak park amenities.
““I don’t like being that close to Austin, the high Property taxes and mediocre schools”
skip oak park and its taxes, live in Galewood”
If he is scared of Austin, I doubt he’d survive Galewood.
I’m disappointed in your answer anon(tfo).
At a larger competitive school it’s more difficult to get involved in school activities because space is limited and competition is fierce. If you’re not one of the best in the school, whether it be theater, or basketball, or whatever the activity, you will be left behind. that’s how you get lost in the crowd so to speak. Smaller schools and less competitive schools have less students but the same number of activities, so it’s easier for example to play on teh baseball team because there are 100 mediocre to good students trying out instead of 200 good players with most of them having years of experience and baseball camps as experience. So what happens is that you make your group of friends, it becomes difficult to excel in any area and you graduate, move on, and like the infamously arrogant JMM condescendingly stated (albeit in a different context): you end up attending Loyola University upon graduation rather than Northwestern. My boss claims he sent his children to a private school rather than Stevenson because it gave his daughter a cahnce to play on the women’s basketball team, something that would have never happened at Stevenson.
“anon (tfo) (January 6, 2012, 4:28 pm)
“Why is it “miserable” to be average at New Trier, any more than it is being avg. at a large university, or living in the GZ in Chicago, etc.?”
Because HS, and teenagers, are generally more miserable than the other places?
Seriously, do you not remember HS, or were you just that in with the in crowd that you totally missed anyone else’s (mostly petty-teenaged, but still real enough to the kids) misery?”
“Dan, I knew it was you! Happy holidays.”
I called him out after his 2nd post under his new moniker. He is so predictable and has absolutely no range.
“Seriously, do you not remember HS, or were you just that in with the in crowd that you totally missed anyone else’s (mostly petty-teenaged, but still real enough to the kids) misery?””
Anon,
I have been through hell and back 16 times in the days since I left college. I can tell you this. I spent the better part of tenth grade, up until a month before graduating HS, as part of that in-crowd. Those 2-3 years, were the worst years of my life.
Btw.. HD.. your post at 2:42, nothing wrong with it. It guarantees you a good place at the end of the game, low deviation on the way there. Unfortunately it makes it difficult to get there early and without conscientious saving. To me it was always about “the end” anyway, so nothing wrong with your plan.
Best part of course is that your cautiousness allows me to make “need to inject Wuchereria bancrofti into your scrotum” jokes.
“I called him out after his 2nd post under his new moniker.”
Yes, you always call it first…
I actually find the guy rather amusing.
We’re looking at colleges, and have spoken to several parents of freshmen and sophmores at UIUC who kids are disappointed by their UIUC experience: extremely large classes (incl a 3000 student class!), frequent difficulty in getting into classes/majors; near automatic 5-year term to get a 4-year degree, loneliness (w/o drinking); poor housing conditions, relatively inaccessible professors and too many TAs teaching, etc. So yes, UIUC might be comparable to a New Trier experience — great school with great reputation, but less than stellar experience “boots on the ground” for students. (I’m not talking about partying opportunities, but rather academic experience.)
Homedelete: you accurately described the NTHS experience. Many kids have had years of professional lessons and coaching to absorb all team spots and major theatrical roles; little opportunity to be a “star” player w/o years of pre-gaming. Add administration that’s not so interested in average students’ academic progress/goals, etc. plus snob element: BMWs for 16th B-day, private coaches for team members, parental presssure to gain admissions “top 20” colleges, massive drinking parties at North Shore mansions, etc, New Trier is a pressure cooker; plenty of articles published on this subject.
Forgot that Deerfield HS is in Lake County, sorry. So I stand by my OPRFHS honors route as best overall public school education experience in Cook County for a “non-stellar but smart-enough” kid who can’t get into Northside Prep. Average River Forest K-8 graduate is nearly always admitted to OPRF honors program. Savvy OPRF parent can obtain an excellent education for their B+ student at OPRFHS, which has college placement results that easily rival New Trier but housing costs (incl small frame houses) much lower than North Shore. Go look at MLS.
I like Galewood too, but Fenwick has gotten fairly selective so that’s not a sure thing. Graduating from a Catholic grammar school is no longer a guarantee of placing high enough on the HS entry exam. Trinity isn’t in same rank.
“which has college placement results that easily rival New Trier”
But the real value is not there. The real value is in an earlier statement I once made. “Everyone I grew up knowing from Chicago, seemed to have gone to New Trier”
One puts you within 1 degree of separation from an absurd amount of people.
“I actually find the guy rather amusing.”
that’s better than you, clio and miumiu who most people find annoying,
Is this your new moniker Dan? Demitruck? BTW, you have not yet graced us with your definition of highly educated.
Interesting Forbes piece on MIT’s offering a free online education to all. I wonder how employers would feel about a well spoken, intelligent graduate of MIT’s free college?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmarshallcrotty/2011/12/21/m-i-t-game-changer-free-online-education-for-all/
“We’re looking at colleges,”
“I wonder how employers would feel about a well spoken, intelligent graduate of MIT’s free college?”
MIT would obviously limit it’s free courses to not being eligible to be conferred a degree. How would employers know a student has “graduated”? I doubt MIT would disclose this.
Also doubt the free degree includes profs/TAs grading your homework/papers/tests. No money from free = they won’t spend time/resources on it.
“MIT would obviously limit it’s free courses to not being eligible to be conferred a degree. How would employers know a student has “graduated”? I doubt MIT would disclose this.”
I remember seeing this a few months ago. If memory serves me correctly, which it rarely does. They give a certificate of completed work. I know they definitely require you to do coursework and you are graded. Absolutely fantastic program. And a school like MIT, i doubt they ever have to worry about funding.
Of course, I doubt too many people really have the initiative to take the classes. Not many, understand the value of torchin up a big fat spleef and relaxing with lagrange.
Bob,
While on the topic of MIT. I watched, a few months ago, the movie “21” about the MIT Blackjack team. Movie was terrible but I enjoyed that it had the Monte Hall question, i remember you disagreeing with me on. If I remember correctly, part of your argument was that your MBA professor told you it was the answer. I had no idea at the time the professor was U. of C., that is now scary.
Anyhow, the Keyser Soze guy gave a great, and easy, explanation.
Monte Hall is a basic conditional probability concept that can be taught to undergrads in their first probability course. I cannot believe an U of C prof. did not get it right.
miu.. search this site for monte hall… see the Feb 18 convo…
“If memory serves me correctly, which it rarely does”
“If I remember correctly, part of your argument was that your MBA professor told you it was the answer. I had no idea at the time the professor was U. of C., that is now scary.”
Ha. You can relax, Ze. Just found *and* read the thread. The reputation of U of C b school profs is safe. Bob was disagreeing with the profs. anon (of unstated primacy) sorted him out though, so maybe he should start an online course.
“I cannot believe an U of C prof. did not get it right.”
They aren’t perfect. We had one prof. whose notes in prep for the test were replete with errors! Obviously word got around and the next semester four people signed up for his course. Its a bit scary when you’re studying for an exam and you find what you think is an error, but aren’t sure. Then confirm with fellow classmates before the exam.
IIRC they did get the issue right per the way wikipedia describes it. I just still fail to grasp that its better/beneficial to switch.
what part are you stuck on? i’ve found this problem/solution hazy in the past but wikepedia cleared it up for me.
“I just still fail to grasp that its better/beneficial to switch.”
Would you rather have claim over 1 door or 2 doors (one of which will necessarily be empty and will be shown to you as such)? As anon noted, the statement of the problem is v important.
The problem Bob has, is he keeps seeing each bet as a *new* and individual bet. He fails to see it is just the first bet, and that bet never changes.
I have to say, I respect him for admitting he is not grasping it.
“As anon noted, the statement of the problem is v important.”
That’s just anon and his surfeit of semantics (did I even use that correctly in a sentence?). I remember the game, it was the one Felix and Oscar went on. Btw.. how is the Odd Couple never on some classic TV channel? That was a great show.
Ze: “Not many, understand the value of torchin up a big fat spleef and relaxing with lagrange.”
Lagrange? ZZ-Top song or suburb?
“The problem Bob has, is he keeps seeing each bet as a *new* and individual bet. ”
Once one door is revealed to not be the prize and the decision to switch after that door is revealed leaves both doors with probability .5 of winning/losing. Can’t grasp what advantage switching confers on the contestant still. Their probability went from .333 to .5 after the door is revealed, but remains .5 whether they switch or not.
“The problem Bob has, is he keeps seeing each bet as a *new* and individual bet. He fails to see it is just the first bet, and that bet never changes.”
Using Bayes rule, Bob can calculate the posterior probabilities and see that indeed switching is a good idea.
Now if you want intuition, the key is the fact that the host KNOWS which door leads to the car, hence once he makes his move (opens a door) the symmetries of the problem are gone. In fact, unless the car was behind the door which was already chosen by the contestant (prob. 1/3) , switching helps as the host has opened the door among the two unchosen ones that did not lead to the car. In other words, conditioned on contestant having missed the right door initially (prob. 2/3), once the host opens a door, the car is definitely (with prob. 1) behind the other door. So switching changes odds of 1/3 to 2/3.
“once the host opens a door, the car is definitely (with prob. 1) behind the other door.”
I interpret is as “one the host opens a door, the car is possibly (with prob .5) behind the other door”.
Micky Rosa: He says, “Ben, do you want to stay with door number one or go with door number two?”. Now, is it in your interest to switch your choice?
Ben Campbell: Yeah.
Micky Rosa: Well wait, the host knows where the car is. So how do you know he’s not trying to play a trick on you – trying to use reverse psychology to get you to pick a goat?
Ben Campbell: Well I wouldn’t really care. I mean, my answer’s based on statistics – based on variable change.
Micky Rosa: Variable change? But he just asked you a simple question.
Ben Campbell: Yeah, which changed everything.
Micky Rosa: Enlighten us.
Ben Campbell: Well, when I was originally asked to pick a door, I had a 33.3% chance of choosing right. But after he opens one of the doors and re-offers me the choice, it’s now 66.7% if I choose to switch… So yeah, I’ll take door number two and thank you for the extra 33.3%.
Micky Rosa: Exactly. People, remember – if you don’t know which door to open, always account for variable change.
Micky Rosa: Now see, most people wouldn’t take the switch, out paranoia, fear, emotions. But Mr. Campbell, he kept his emotions aside and let simple math
[in a game show host voice]
Micky Rosa: get his ass into a brand new car!… Which is better than that goat you’ve been driving around campus…
“Lagrange? ZZ-Top song or suburb?”
It was a joke, from a fictional parrot, that only miu would have gotten… some math chicks are hot, need a math joke ready every now and then…
Oh. LaGrange multipliers. I vaguely remember that shit.
“I interpret is as “one the host opens a door, the car is possibly (with prob .5) behind the other door”.
Note the sentence before “conditioned on contestant having missed the right door initially (prob. 2/3)” .
Question: how much does it costs these days rough estimate psf to build an addition. I got a friend who wants to build a 20×10 addition on to him; it would be on slab, he plans on using it as a dining room that leads to a paver patio. (he has only a large eat-in kitchen now). I said I have no idea how much that would cost and I was just wondering how as a rough estimate it would cost. It would need everything obviously, hvac rerouted, new electrical, patdio doors, etc. Thanks (anon(tfo))
“Question: how much does it costs these days rough estimate psf to build an addition. I got a friend who wants to build a 20×10 addition on to him; ”
200-300psf (not kidding). New construction houses can be as little at 100 psf – but not additions.
danny-lower d, Just for the record.
1- I appreciate that Ze entertains you. His purpose is actually to entertain me. He seems to be better at it when Groove is around. You guys are too serious!
2- Ze is not fictional, although you are entitled to believe what you wish. No offense taken. Truthfully I think it is funny.
“That’s just anon and his surfeit of semantics”
Not me, unless I came across some really good stuff and dont remember. Cant imagine typing that much stuff that even tengentially involved Howie Mandel.
HD’s question:
“200-300psf (not kidding). New construction houses can be as little at 100 psf – but not additions”
That’s “conservative” estimating, if the place is in Palatine or Park Ridge (whatever that is) or similar rather than Hinsdale or similar, but I basically agree, HD–cosiderably more expensive on a psf basis than new construction of similar quality. That’s of course assuming that you want it to look reasonably integrated with the rest of the house, be hvac neutral, etc etc. If you just want to slap on a garage-esque growth, that’s always ten degrees off the temp of the rest of the house, and may or may not be leaking at the roof seam, $100 psf would get it done (ie, a glorfied “three season” porch/sun room). Keep in mind that a crappy garage with crappy materials runs $25+ psf, at least in the city.
Ps: hd, as to your disappointment, consider the question presented.
No disappointment. It’s not my house.
“No disappointment.”
Not about the addition, from Friday night.
Oh. Monday morning. I was popular in high school so I don’t understand. I was on homecoming court and shit.
The MIT program is highly likely to be very much like the one Stanford just started – and I took one of the courses. At the end, you get a PDF document stating your results in the course and the document has been digitally signed by both of the professors that presented the class. The value is really limited to being able to prove that the document is real and that someone took the class in your name – whether that is you or not is something that any employer must place some level of trust upon.
As it turns out, the class I just took addresses the Monty Hall question. Give it a shot and answer the question. Once you try your answer, there is a video that explains it. And after that, there is a letter that shows that Monty Hall didn’t even understand the question himself.
https://www.ai-class.com/course/video/quizquestion/70
“The MIT program is highly likely to be very much like the one Stanford just started”
Awesome!! I hate skool, we should ALL take a class at Stanford just to say “I went to Stanford too!”, Everytime Clio says it.
“Awesome!! I hate skool, we should ALL take a class at Stanford just to say “I went to Stanford too!”, Everytime Clio says it.”
I thought that was mainly reserved for the Harvard “summer school” “students” who then put Harvard on their resume.
Architect (January 7, 2012, 8:24 am)
Forgot that Deerfield HS is in Lake County, sorry. So I stand by my OPRFHS honors route as best overall public school education experience in Cook County for a “non-stellar but smart-enough” kid who can’t get into Northside Prep. Average River Forest K-8 graduate is nearly always admitted to OPRF honors program. Savvy OPRF parent can obtain an excellent education for their B+ student at OPRFHS, which has college placement results that easily rival New Trier but housing costs (incl small frame houses) much lower than North Shore. Go look at MLS.
I like Galewood too, but Fenwick has gotten fairly selective so that’s not a sure thing. Graduating from a Catholic grammar school is no longer a guarantee of placing high enough on the HS entry exam. Trinity isn’t in same rank.
Thats great but there is no quantitative data backing this up.
And what about Hersey or Prospect or Maine South
“I thought that was mainly reserved for the Harvard “summer school” “students” who then put Harvard on their resume.”
I was eating when I read that.. not good! 🙂
I liked the moms that would quickly say, their kid went to Hartford. Ze did a summer at Cornell. Never went to class, but remembered playing lots of cards with the Horace Mann kids. 1 kid had my number all summer long.. insalely good player… wonder what happened to that guy… bet we could guess in less than 3 guesses.
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/rush/subdivisions.html
For the Naperville peeps.
I went to the open house here over the weekend, and I’d offer two observations:
1) The flow of the house is better than I expected from the pictures. The place is small by modern standards, but it really feels like a wonderful home you could live in forever.
2) The reality of the neighboring restaurant is even worse than we expected. The house smelled like smoke inside and out and I think you literally could ask someone sitting on the patio to pass the salt and neither of you would need to stand up. The best way I could spin it is that at least it’s a wood smoker – it smells like a fireplace rather than a grill or deep-fat fryer fumes.
“The reality of the neighboring restaurant is even worse than we expected.”
Just wait til summer time and the patio is full on Fri-Sat *every* week. Smell of smoke, (and likely of tobacco smoke, too) and the noise, yadda yadda yadda. Still priced as $400k(+?) for the lot, under $150k for the structure.
There was something curious about the patio though. The space is actually set up as 2 handicap parking spots, complete with the concrete bumpers at the front, and what looks like a partially-enclosed area for the dumpster. The old garage entrance is now a swing gate wide enough for cars to pull through.
If they didn’t NEED the handicap spots as the result of some ordinance, zoning or something, why would they build it that way? The parking bumpers block foot traffic, and I can’t imagine they’re going to have foot customers or staff stepping over them all day. If they were required to build the area as handicap parking for some reason, can they put tables on it? There’s a story here, but I don’t know what it is.
“The space is actually set up as 2 handicap parking spots, complete with the concrete bumpers at the front, and what looks like a partially-enclosed area for the dumpster.”
Dunno. But I *do* know that they intend on having it as a “beer garden” in the summer. Heard the owner discussing it and everything–but, given that it took them two years from buying the building to opening, maybe they’re making assumptions about what they can get permitted that are not solidly based in reality.