Vintage 2-Bedroom We “Loved” in 2008 Returns to the Market: 562 W. Arlington in East Lincoln Park
When things were looking bleak in real estate in early 2008, we chattered about this 2-bedroom unit at 562 W. Arlington in Lincoln Park to remind ourselves why we loved Chicago real estate.
See the February 2008 chatter with interior pictures here.
Our 2008 chatter is very illuminative of the market just 3 years ago.
When we chattered about the unit, it was listed at $699,000 and several of you thought that was a fair price given the location and finishes.
No surprise, but “G” didn’t think so.
“I’m with you, Tipster. The responses here indicate why some prices will be very sticky on the way down.
But down they will go. Anyone who buys anywhere near 2005 prices will learn this all too well.”
One of you also posted many months later saying that the turn of events throughout 2008 (the recession and near economic collapse) changed your viewpoint on real estate and the pricing of this unit.
The 2008 buyer didn’t just buy “near” the 2005 price, they bought above it by $25,000.
The building is on the quintessential East Lincoln Park street- with its greystones and leafy trees.
Renovated in 2005, all the units have upscale finishes.
Unit #2 has both a front and back porch as well as gated parking.
The kitchen has granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances and a wine cooler.
Unit #2 is currently listed $30,000 under the 2008 purchase price at $595,000.
Unit #3 is also on the market but has gone under contract with a list price of $609,900.
In the 2008 chatter, one of you said:
“In contrast, areas like Lincoln Park and Hyde Park–stable, not particularly overbuilt–were certainly not immune from the bubble, but I do think that they weren’t as inflated. If they didn’t go up as much, they shouldn’t come down as much. Which is why I think a place like this–asking $700K on a street where virtually all of its neighbors are 1.5 million and above–as not an unreasonable price.
I guess we’ll see in five years.”
It is only 3 years later, and not five, but the verdict is?
Mary Ann Genellie at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
Or you can see it in person at the Open House on Sunday, June 5 from 2 – 4 pm.
- Sold in June 2005 for $600,000
- Sold in August 2008 for $625,000
- Currently listed for $595,000
- Assessments of $200 a month
- Taxes of $8623
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Gated parking included
- Bedroom #1: 15×11
- Bedroom #2: 13×11
I’d bet that someone takes this at $575k (maybe $550k). Bummer for the sellers to see it go for $50k under what they paid, but hopefully they’ve paid enough towards principal to at least (almost) cover the broker fee.
Cons (sort of): (1) Assessment seems low. I’d bet it goes up to about $300 very soon, and I’d be curious as to what sort of work the association has been putting off. (2) It’s west of Clark. Arlington between Clark and Lakeview is a “quintessential” ELP street. I’d bet Arlington west of Clark gets a fair amount of obnoxious late night foot traffic leaving Mickey’s, Tin L, etc. (3) Onsite space, but no garage. (4) Vintage walk-up, and it’s not top floor, so I’d bet upstairs foot noise can be an issue. (5) No powder room. (6) Not Lincoln elem. (7) Wonder where the w/d hook-ups are?
Pros: (1) While not as optimal as being east of Clark on those blocks, it’s still an excellent location. (2) It’s beautiful. (3) The kitchen looks great. (4) The outdoor spaces are fantastic. The front balcony is mostly just (really) nice to look at, but also expands the feel of the room. (Personally, I’d have the dining area back in the “family room,” directly off the kitchen and leading to the rear deck, then put the t.v. on the wall where the dining table’s currently located, while bifurcating the living room with more formal furniture in front of the fireplace and a sectional in front of the t.v.) And the back deck – a giant, covered, non-wood outdoor space – is a rare thing in these parts (I’m surprised they haven’t done more to decorate it). (5) The low assessments, even once they inevitably increase, are low enough to keep the price down.
“and it’s not top floor, so I’d bet upstairs foot noise can be an issue.”
It still amazes me that people buying at this price point would be even remotely ok with this. not to mention footstep noises, but what if the person above wants to watch a movie and has a decent sound system, as more an more people have now days.
That just screams ‘super cheap rental apartment’ to me, not $600k condo… heck, even all but one of the rental places I’ve ever lived in, I had no issues with hearing neighbors; but that one that did have issues… man that really sucked!
Think about all of the LP condo conversions and teardowns for new condos that have increased the total number of units since 1988. Then think about these condo/TH unit closings for May of each year:
1988 76
1989 97
1990 113
1991 121
1992 132
1993 124
1994 99
1995 99
1996 138
1997 126
1998 144
1999 126
2000 144
2001 99
2002 117
2003 138
2004 127
2005 175
2006 160
2007 176
2008 115
2009 79
2010 82
2011 61
Now think about the size of the shadow inventory.
If we loved it in 2008, chances are we won’t love it now. We are stingy on love these days.
I think it’s beautiful, but I would not feel comfortable living in such a small building. You never know who is going to move in as a neighbor. My friends live in a small building like this. One of the owners fraudulently purchased one of the three units. The unit can’t be sold since there are so many liens against it and the bank isn’t paying assessments. If something like this happens in a larger building, it isn’t such a huge deal, but in a small building like this, it could be disaster.
Plus, one loud family could make your life miserable. Without a larger association, to back owners up, what is to stop another owner from being a complete jerks?
(Another friend of mine lives in an older townhouse. Whenever the husband and wife argue, the woman starts doing “angry vacuuming” in which she slams the vacuum cleaner into the wall over and over. Nothing can be done because there are only 3 units in the association and suing to get those people out would be too expensive.)
“Now think about the size of the shadow inventory.”
The only real “deals” I’m seeing in LP/LV for my price range are corporate transplants whose company is paying their relo.
Everyone else that doesn’t have to sell isn’t because they can’t. Eventually they’re going to want to move one way or another.
“Think about all of the LP condo conversions and teardowns for new condos that have increased the total number of units since 1988…Now think about the size of the shadow inventory.”
Yes, there’s lots of it, but how much of that shadow inventory is actually in competition with units such as this one? Not much.
“Con: It’s west of Clark. Arlington between Clark and Lakeview is a ‘quintessential’ ELP street”
Could you please define ELP anonny? In all the years I’ve lived in the neighborhood of LP (please check out the City of Chicago’s *neighborhood* not *community* map if you’re uncertain of it’s boundries), I have yet to discover this mystical area called ELP.
Note to self if you’re new to the area: Never ever call it ELP to other real LP’rs, as you will face public humiliation (probably behind your back where it belongs). Like putting ketsup on a hog dog / ordering a ‘vente’ beer / calling someone British a ‘wasp’ / asking for a diet Coke with a lime and extra ice in France, you will forever be know as the tourist / outsider / asperational hick… that you probably are.
“Could you please define ELP anonny? In all the years I’ve lived in the neighborhood of LP (please check out the City of Chicago’s *neighborhood* not *community* map if you’re uncertain of it’s boundries), I have yet to discover this mystical area called ELP.”
I agree; there’s only a small sliver of area that’s “east of clark”, aside from the park itself of course; the area referred to by most peolpe is far larger than that. (although I’ll agree that many people try to make it even bigger than it is due to name recognition).
and “Arlington between Clark and Lakeview” is literally one single block. So according to him, ‘east’ lincoln park is basically a single block?
ok, sure, whatever, let him have his “ELP” to obsess over, the rest of us can focus on stuff that really matters…
It would be interesting to try to buy the other apartemnts in this building and convert to single family. I wonder if it originally was single family.
“Could you please define ELP anonny?”
Once Sabrina featured a property in mythical ELP and I think it was anonny or someone who said it wasn’t “prime” ELP or something to that effect.
Jay, a few (five, actually) things.
First, please take a deep breath.
Second, Sabrina called it a “quintessential” ELP street. If we’re going to speak of the quintessence of an eastern part of an area, I’d say that the easternmost block of a given street within LP would count as the quintessential eastern street. If you had just one chance to show a block of Arlington to, say, a “tourist / outsider / asperational [sic] hick,” for the purpose of showing that person the quintessential ELP street, would you show the block between Clark and Lakeview, or elsewhere?
Third, “ELP” are the initials, an abbreviation, if you, for the eastern section of Lincoln Park. This is a real estate blog. The use of terms such as east, west, south and north is hardly controversial when drilling down on a specific area within a neighborhood. I didn’t invent “ELP,” but I’m certainly happy to utilize it, if for no other reason than to type a mere 3 letters.
Fourth, I’m sure that your home – in ELP but west of Clark I surmise – is quite nicely located. Pointing out that the subject location (i) is not the very best block of Arlington, (ii) may be subject to drunken foot traffic due to the cluster of bars on Clark and (iii) is not within the Lincoln elem attendance area should in no way be construed as a knock on properties located west of Clark.
Lastly, outside of the context of a real estate blog, on which the short-hand “ELP” is almost universally accepted (even if the boundaries of which are not), of course I would not “call it ELP,” and most certainly not in the esteemed presence of “real LP’rs.”
Thing is nwzimmer, NOBODY who lives in LP calls any area of the neighborhood ELP. When I was growing up and well into the early 90’s west of Halsted was ‘Sheffield’; and there’s also Wrightwood, Ranch Triangle, Old Town… blah blah. These were and always will be in my mind (and per the city’s official *neighborhood* map) what they are. I just find it funny/sad that corporate America (Rubloff, etc) renames something for personal profit that always *was*, and now people call it by its new prefab title. With that… TGIF Chicken Wings yall.
I’d agree this is ELP.
“please check out the City of Chicago’s *neighborhood* not *community* map if you’re uncertain of it’s boundries”
This one:
http://www.cityofchicago.org/content/dam/city/depts/doit/general/GIS/Chicago_Maps/Citywide_Maps/City_Neighborhoods_poster.pdf
? That is so authoritative that the entire area west of Ashland to the river b/t Fullerton & Diversey is tagged “Lathrop Homes”? The map has some strong points, but it’s full of a ton of BS, too.
Good grief people. I never said it wasn’t ELP. Re-read my initial post (anybody else have anything substantive to say about the SUBJECT property?), as well as my response to Jay at 3:54.
“That is so authoritative that the entire area west of Ashland to the river b/t Fullerton & Diversey is tagged “Lathrop Homes”? ”
Maybe the residents lobbied for that to keep the Big Ten/Ohhh-hiii-Ohhh GZ transplants away.
“Maybe the residents lobbied for that to keep the Big Ten/Ohhh-hiii-Ohhh GZ transplants away.”
Maybe, but I don’t think your “longest stretch of $1m+ homes” folks would appreciate their ‘hood being called Lathrop Homes.
“It still amazes me that people buying at this price point would be even remotely ok with this. not to mention footstep noises, but what if the person above wants to watch a movie and has a decent sound system, as more an more people have now days.”
Noise can definitely be an issue in these 3 or 4 flats. It depends on what they did on the renovation. Some of them have the original hardwood floors- so the creaking can get quite loud!
Also- someone commented on the small condo association. That’s an issue with any of these smaller buildings. If someone goes into foreclosure- it really affects the whole building dramatically (assessments not paid etc.)
You can get a townhouse in the neighborhood for the price of this 2/2.
G-
Thanks for May closing data. So- we’re even lower than 1988 (when LP was NOT much of a “prime” place to live?)
Wow. I thought things had picked up slightly in May. I guess I was wrong.
Sabrina,
Having grown up in Lakeview in the 1970s and 1980s, I have to disagree with you about Lincoln Park. It was definitely prime in 1988.
agree w dan2. all the yups (uncle was a trader)i knew in the 80s lived in lincoln park. and when i got a fake id in 89 we went to bars on division and lp (rip big nasty).
to tell you the truth, it doesnt seem that much better (was full of hotties in 80s) or safer now. just more overpriced. i guess e a little older. I should rent about last night for a flashback.
though sabrina might have meant the entire area. not just the city. lp was prime for the city but prices were low compared to fancy suburbs. today not so much.
“You can get a townhouse in the neighborhood for the price of this 2/2.”
I’d love to see such a listing. Aside from the fact that many townhouses in LP are dumps (often priced in the $400’s by the area south of Oz or in the immediate vicinity of Alcott, etc.), I’m trying to think of any $595k townhouse developments in this particular neighborhood. And yes, when you say “the neighborhood,” that means something. Show me a (ideally non-dump) townhouse for $595k that’s in no worse a LP location than this place.
I’d tend to agree with you anonny on perception of value of the exact neighborhood. As you just went through a purchase – did you find appraisers valued the location (and say Lincoln school district) as much? Or was it more along the lines of Sabrina associating an older townhouse on say Larrabee to this? I’m curious as to if lenders would put premium on the unicorn criteria as much as potential buyers and sellers in this area.
I just requested an appraisal on a townhome in Agassiz after a recent posting, and the appraiser used similar structures as comps but definitely didn’t limit scope to some would consider same neighborhood. Ranged about a bit, crossed school lines and sub-neighborhood regions.
Wicker – no, I’m afraid not. While the appraiser pulled some comps of nearby listings, he didn’t seem to place much weight on the granularly specific locational distinction. I think the few he pulled were all in Lincoln; however, he didn’t seem to distinguish between places located in noisy spots or right upstairs from half-way-house type establishments (on Clark) vs. listings one block west or east of there that were fairly quiet, etc.
I’m not surprised that it went that way on an Agassiz property appraisal, as the boundaries seem to confuse many residents and prospective residents in that particular area (and if it’s not always clear to the folks who actually live or wish to live in the neighborhood, who knows what somebody who doesn’t even necessarily live in the city thinks).
Out of curiosity, is all the discussion about ELP similarly applicable to ELV? Or is ELV so different from the rest of LV that it warrants a special directional subdivision?
“Out of curiosity, is all the discussion about ELP similarly applicable to ELV? Or is ELV so different from the rest of LV that it warrants a special directional subdivision?”
ELV is way different from ELP, in that ELV has a much higher density compared to Central or West (original) Lakeview.
On the other hand, ELP doesn’t have as strong of a density contrast between the eastern/central parts.
Also, all this quibbling about ELP not being “true” to “real Lincoln Parkers” — get over it. ELV is not an original term either. Terms and distinctions change. As more call west LP “Lincoln Park” there’s a stronger urge to differentiate “ELP” from regular “Lincoln Park.”
“Out of curiosity, is all the discussion about ELP similarly applicable to ELV? Or is ELV so different from the rest of LV that it warrants a special directional subdivision?”
Actually in the case of LV I think the distinction has meaning to a degree, even if the boundaries don’t exactly align with it.
The Belmont stop (which I consider “ELV”) is a world different than the Southport & Paulina stops. Although Diversey & Wellington might as well just be a continuation of Lincoln Park.
By the way- Unit #4- the top floor unit in this building also just came on the market. Maybe they figure with Unit #3 finally under contract and Unit #2 back on the market- they might as well take a stab at it?
We chattered about Unit #4 in July 2010. It is now listed for $609,900 (under the 2005 price- as you can see below.)
Unit #4: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1700 square feet, penthouse
Sold in July 2005 for $610,000
Sold in July 2007 for $715,000
Originally listed in May 2009
Withdrawn
Currently listed for $659,900 (in July 2010)
Assessments of $205 a month
Taxes of $8674
Central Air
Washer/Dryer in the unit
Gated parking included
Bedroom #1: 15×12
Bedroom #2: 13×12
“Maybe they figure with Unit #3 finally under contract and Unit #2 back on the market- they might as well take a stab at it?”
If so that’s some pretty poor decision making. Had it been listed before unit 3 went under contract maybe that would’ve been their sale instead.
Now it’s just a race for the exits.
Lincoln Park is so big, ELP is used on a pretty regular basis. I was just on that lovely Arlington and there is a big difference between ELP, and WLP. In fact, my friend at North and Clybourn calls her place Lincoln Park. Far cry from the quinessential east Arlington street for sure.
I feel sick to my stomach.
A buyer here better do intensive due-diligence; apparently the entire building ownership is turning-over in a short time-period. I’ve always been skittish about small/tiny condo associations.
“I feel sick to my stomach.”
lol. groove, did you ever mention what cruiser bike you went with?
“lol. groove, did you ever mention what cruiser bike you went with?”
yep i posted a reply to you, cant remember when but it was recent.
We picked up some at target, wifey got a pink and white one 🙂 they are so much fun and simple i ride in sandals! and locking them up the feeling is so much better than our over priced extra expensive mountain bikes.
I just picked up an 80’s schwinn le tour on craigslist and will be turning it into a “fixie”. i wanna see what the hype is all about.
Unit #3 just sold for $573,000.
Congrats to the new owners of #3.