Vintage Rowhouse With Good Bones: 25 S. Oakley in the West Loop
This vintage 3-bedroom rowhouse at 25 S. Oakley in the West Loop near the United Center has great bones.
It has high ceilings, great windows, crown moldings and 2 wood burning fireplaces.
The listing says its been renovated but it appears to lack central air.
But its sales history also seems to tell the tale of Chicago’s housing bubble over the last decade.
Given the sales history, how do you put a value on this home?
Jake Sapstein at D’Aprile Realty has the listing. See the pictures here.
25 S. Oakley: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 1792 square feet, 2 car garage
- Sold in January 1990 for $3600
- Sold in October 2000 for $100,000
- Sold in May 2001 for $171,000
- Sold in May 2005 for $395,000
- Sold in March 2006 for $690,000
- Bank-owned as of August 2007
- Sold in October 2007 by the bank for $225,500
- Originally listed in December 2008 for $379,900
- Currently still listed for $379,900
- Taxes of $5,388
- Bamboo floors
- Full basement
That area is SUPER janky. Heck 10-15 years ago it was probably one of the higest crime spots in the city, and while its improving, you’d have to be an “urban adventurer” to want to pay 379k for a place in that area of town. We were considering looking at some of the 2200 W. Madison condos with the private roofdecks, but decided to pass since they were around 300k+ and we wanted like 215k for one. I don’t want ALDI to be my closest grocery store. And we’d have to get a car if we lived there.
Oh and that guy D’Aprile has TONS of vacant properties over there in that area… and by TONS I mean TONS of TONS! All of it is overpriced!
LOL, straight ghetto.
Take at least 100k off that price and throw in a new Mini Cooper (because I’ll need to buy a car if I want to safely navigate that area) and then we’ll be talking.
The 2006 sale (and possibly the 2005) sure does reek of mortgage fraud. I wonder if this kind of inflated appraisal fraud will ever be prosecuted.
100k reduction and a bullet proof Suburban!
Preferrably one with one of these!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-uaFNGY_ug
🙂
“The 2006 sale (and possibly the 2005) sure does reek of mortgage fraud.”
’05 looks like a fool, but may not have been fraudulent beyond being a necesary step in perpetrating the 06 fraud (I’d be shocked if that transaction were at all legit).
I wonder if it would be possible to buy this place and somehow move it to a decent neighborhood. The house is gorgeous and beautifully done. The neighborhood..well I don’t want my closest walk to amenity to be a drug dealer..meh.
This house is in the “West Loop”? Eh….that’s a stretch!
Call the area “West Haven” if you wish, but don’t call it the West Loop.
AS for the house, I agree that in a vacuum it is pretty nice, but the urban context is hardly “urban” as in being able to perform daily shopping/leisure activities without using a car. I’ve ridden my bike through that area many times and the commercial corridors are barren – not just of necessary retail, but simply vacant land.
I’d rather spend the asking price for a house in western Albany Park.
I think the bars on the window over the kitchen sink is a nice touch. I cannot even guess what this will go for based on the area…I also wouldn’t considre this the West Loop.
A classic home which does have good bones. The re-do certainly was not worth the previous sales price (06-07)especially considering the neighborhood but now has allowed the home a moderate guarentee of survival. If the neighborhood gentrifies it will be a beautiful restored property. At its current listing it could be saved/ maintained but I am not sure an appropriate buyer will take the plunge. I do remember that these homes in Lakeview in the 80s were also challenged by the demographics too however and think about that today.
“I do remember that these homes in Lakeview in the 80s were also challenged by the demographics too however and think about that today.”
Well, yes, but they also weren’t priced at 175%+ of metro median sales price, were they? At $200k, this is a worth urban pioneer location, at $375k, it’s nuts.
Ed,
“Demographically challenged”?
The racism on this blog and in Chicago continue to astound me. And you all smugly go along with it.
Why don’t you just come right out and say what you mean… Are you referring to African Americans, Latinos??
paulj,
i dont think thats racism. i used to live at 2200 w. warren blvd and many of that areas residents are sketchy-white and black. if someone was making the same comments about kenwood or hyde park (both 50/50 communities) then that would sound racist. But inferring that the people that live in this area are sketchy is just a plain statement of the facts.
I haven’t been that far west since I covered a court case at the Flournoy courthouse in ’04. I looked at the aerial view linked from the Coldwell Banker website….holy moly that area looks ghetto. Lots of vacant lots and abandoned buildings. $200k is pushing it. More like $150k or $125k renovated. Sometimes a building is worth less than the sum of all its parts – this is one of them.
“$200k is pushing it. More like $150k or $125k renovated”
Just b/c it ain’t where you’d live HD, doesn’t mean that it needs a 25% discount. We all know you aren’t the urban pioneer type (I’m not either, so don’t jump on me). I just think that at $200k, with an FHA loan, this would be a reasonable buy for the right folks (and I don’t think the number who fit the profile is small).
Comparisons to previously gentrified neighborhoods have to take into account the number of CHA scattered-sight bldgs in this area. They were built when the Horner Homes came down and the renewal was highlighted for the 96 Dem convention at the nearby UC, IIRC.
I was going to correct a typo but, perhaps, the verdict is still out?
I think a lot of properties need price reductions in most areas, including those that I would want to live in. This is one of them. Somebody in the future is going to get an even better deal on this place as the blight slowly reclaims it’s former neighborhood. In any analysis you have to consider that additional building, rehabs and general building is pretty much over in most neighborhoods for sometime due to the real estate depression. If it’s not developed by now it’s not going to get any better anytime soon.
Too close to Crane High School, Touhy Herbert Park (though I guess that’d be good if you want a local dope spot, St Stevens Terrace apartments and other section 8 developments.
The Near West side doesn’t hop like it used to, but it’s only better than somewhere like East Garfield Park in that it’s a shorter DRIVE to businesses and gang territory is solidly defined.
paulj can act high and mighty all he wants, but the dope selling in this neighborhood in question is run by the Black Disciples.
Homedelete:
“I think a lot of properties need price reductions in most areas”
I think you are a total loser who has been posting the same crap over and over for two years.
Turd, I haven’t been posting here for even one year, much less two. I think you’re confusing me with the other loser who posts the same crap over and over again, Steven Heitman.
No way, you’ve been on here for a long time. I think you just post the same thing over and over. It’s so boring!
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/03/scenes_from_the_recession.html
Hey Turd, you’re going to love this!
35 excellent photos of the great recession from around the world.
Nice house but you could not pay me to live there.
Oakley is on the edge. Paulj, everyone here means African Americans. Almost all whites are afraid to live in an African American neigborhood. Not saying its wrong or right, just the way it is.
I don’t think many whites are afraid to live in nice AA neighborhoods like Hyde Park, etc. , well ok, some are… but this isn’t a good AA neighborhood, its just a bad hood period.
Its not as bad as Garfield Park, Austin, or Englewood but the crime here is pretty bad considering all the new development that has taken place.
‘They only represent’.. (still referring to AAs)
I wouldn’t recommend this neighborhood to anyone…black, white, hispanic, asian.
Last time I was driving by that area I swear even the rats were packing their bags…
based on all of the back peddling, I rest my case. Thanks all for proving my point that I do live in the bumf*** midwest – “The land of people without passports, culture or compassion.”
Bob:”Nice little touch of trying to espouse ideology via word choice. A common tactic from the left.”
Oh c’mon, it’s a common tactic in politics from both sides of the aisle. Anyways, let’s keep partisanship out of this.
paulj, you do realize that saying someone is “without culture” makes as much sense as saying they’re “without an accent”, right?
paulj really proves his point with highly intelligent generalizations of his own.
Did anyone look at the link above? 35 excellent pictures
“Did anyone look at the link above?”
I did. I enjoyed the pics.
“Demograhpically challenged” is not racist. Demographics include factors like income level and education, as well as race. Poor, uneducated folk have a much higher propensity for crime, no matter what their skin color.
I live in this zip code, albeit up near Smith Park. I drive through the ‘hood near this home on a daily basis, and I wouldn’t live in that place for *half* the asking price. It is *WAY* sketchy.
Now, if you’re looking for a pure white-sheet racist comment, I will refer you to Bob’s collection of “facts” shown above…
Homedelete – Your posts may occasionally be accurate, but you’re like a broken record. I don’t think anyone is impressed by your ability to call the sky blue or verify the fact that water is wet; perhaps being a little less prolific would be a little easier on the average reader’s eyes, and save the site some bandwidth.
Let HD enjoy. At least he didn’t contribute to the mania that has nearly wrecked the economy. I am happy to hear he is profiting from it. Most who were correct will still pay for it.
It is obvious now that the “ability to call the sky blue or verify the fact that water is wet” was rare during the mania. It seems now to be most irritating to hear by those who were late to this knowledge.
If you don’t like my posts then you can scroll past them. I’m just me and I recognized in early in life that I can’t please everyone all of the time, so I’m not really too concerned with your opinion of my comments.
“#Bradford on March 19th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Homedelete – Your posts may occasionally be accurate, but you’re like a broken record. I don’t think anyone is impressed by your ability to call the sky blue or verify the fact that water is wet; perhaps being a little less prolific would be a little easier on the average reader’s eyes, and save the site some bandwidth.”
Surely you must bore even yourself though, no?
“If you don’t like my posts then you can scroll past them. I’m just me and I recognized in early in life that I can’t please everyone all of the time, so I’m not really too concerned with your opinion of my comments.” – Homedelete
“Poor, uneducated folk have a much higher propensity for crime, no matter what their skin color. ”
That’s why crime in West Virginia and southern Illinois, is through the roof, never been higher. All the murders and tractor jackings and killings in those rural areas is out of control.
Seriously….I may be a broken record but at least I’m not naive.
Regarding the use of the term “mortgage fraud” above, it seems likely that at that time the mortgage company may have arranged an appraisal of the property before lending the money.
In a broader sense, is it “mortgage fraud” if the lender overassesses the value of a property? Surely, that isn’t fraud on the part of the borrower (unless there was some collusion between the two).
What could be more boring than someone repeatedly accusing someone else as such?
Perhaps, Bradford, you should at least include some wit or snark in your repetitiveness. Otherwise, you sound just like the DB/Turd/T2.
and bradford, why do you even care?
How sad must paulj’s life be that he has to live in a place he doesn’t like.
My 2nd passport is full; I’ve seen many cultures; And never confuse my compassion with my lack of wanting to invest next to someone who destroys their surroundings.
“is it “mortgage fraud” if the lender overassesses the value of a property? Surely, that isn’t fraud on the part of the borrower (unless there was some collusion between the two).”
No, but often (as has been demonstrated many times) in Chicago (and elsewhere) there was collusion b/t the seller, buyer, mortgage broker, closing agent, realtor and appraiser. Maybe this one wasn’t; maybe *this* property is the one that got hit b/c of all of the fraudulent prices of comps.
But that isn’t the most likely explanation, so, while I wouldn’t quite presume fraud, I certainly suspect that the $690k sale–10 months after a $395k sale–had some fraudulent elements. A prima facie case, if you will; something worthy of further investigation, especially given the (proven) involvement of Chicago street gang members and alumni in mortgage fraud and the location of this property solidly w/in one gang’s territory.
I recently purchased an identical rowhouse on the same block that had suffered the same mortgage fraud as 25 S. Im in the middle of the rehab right now and will be moving in as my full time residence. I was under the same impression about that neighborhood untill spending a good deal of time out there. You would be hardpressed to find a single family home in this condition within 2 miles of the loop. Once the commercial construction picks back up in the area..ie Hawks Pratice Facility & Grocery store, this area will continue to morph into a version of the West loop. Its not there yet though. Give it 5 years.
I’ve brought it up one time – now. My abacus doesn’t count high enough to quantify the number of times homedelete has, in true Master of the Obvious form, told us that the sky is falling.
Now why don’t you stop gargling his nuts and mind your own business? …was that snarky enough for you?
“What could be more boring than someone repeatedly accusing someone else as such?” – G
You’re a real classy guy.
“Now why don’t you stop gargling his nuts and mind your own business?”
Bradford’s just long real estate or has a vested interest in transaction volume, understandably angry and out to pick a fight. Once you understand his maradigm and motive he’s just a harmless little koala bear. 😀
You go Bradford! Everyone can get rich in real estate indeed.
Bradford — can you possibly take time out from insulting other posters to point us to some of the great substantive contributions you have made to this blog?
Just 4 blocks south of this property is this one going for $299,000.
http://www.trulia.com/property/1074888011-624-S-Oakley-Blvd-Chicago-IL-60612
Yes, there is a probability of this area being the wild frontier, but street smarts and heightened security are required prerequisites for moving into these types of hoods. For those interested in this area, you can not forget that this IS the inner city being injected with new money.
As far as improvements/changes/new additions to the United Center/West Haven areas slated for the near future or currently happening . . . .
* http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=60&ArticleID=7084&TM=43555.65
chicago journal article re “The Western Avenue Streetscape project [which] will upgrade the tract of Western between Van Buren and Lake with new landscaping, lighting and asphalt improvements along the corridor over two phases.”
* New retail in the area . . . .
http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=60&ArticleID=7226&TM=53034.52
“‘Shoomi was the first retailer to open up their doors since 1968 at Madison and Western – and in such a bold, bright way,’ said Michael Quinlan of the Near West Side Community Development Corp. ‘It’s got those beautiful colors and large glass windows. It’s a warm welcome.'”
http://chicago.everyblock.com/business-licenses/by-date/2009/3/9/1943942/
another boutique just got a business license 2400 W Madison . . .
* New Hockey Rink on 2500 block of Madison – new blackhawks practice rink
http://www.myfoxchicago.com/dpp/news/blackhawks_practice_facility_plan
above is from FOX . . . and
http://egov.cityofchicago.org/city/webportal/portalContentItemAction.do?blockName=Community+Development%2fI+Want+To&deptMainCategoryOID=&channelId=0&programId=0&entityName=Community+Development&topChannelName=Dept&contentOID=537031676&Failed_Reason=Invalid+timestamp,+engine+has+been+restarted&contenTypeName=COC_EDITORIAL&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&Failed_Page=%2fwebportal%2fportalContentItemAction.do&context=dept
“The Chicago Community Development Commission has approved the sale of four vacant City-owned parcels on West Madison Street for the construction of a 60,000-square-foot ice rink facility. The developer, JIH West LLC, plans to build a three-level National Hockey League-sized ice rink, called Johnny’s Ice House, on the 2500 block of West Madison.
The ice rink will serve as the Chicago Blackhawks’ new practice facility, bringing the team back to the city from the western suburbs.
The ice rink is also expected to provide many benefits to the community, as it will have space for several adult and youth hockey leagues as well as high school and college hockey programs.”
http://www.chicagojournal.com/Main.asp?ArticleID=7029&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=60
* New Sports And Rec Center – 2400 W Adams block . . .
http://www.gazettechicago.com/index/?p=162
* Moons Sandwich Shop is quite popular – 16 S Western
http://moons.homestead.com/
yelp – http://www.yelp.com/biz/moons-sandwich-shop-chicago#hrid:jrjEEdqHTeB8D6WbcsgIlA
* Supper Club Chicago – just opened on 2700 W Madison block
http://www.supperclubchicago.com/
* Will they get an organic grocery store at Madison and Western?
http://www.chicagojournal.com/Main.asp?ArticleID=7135&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=60
http://www.suntimes.com/business/1441207,CST-FIN-grocer20.article
* http://www.chicagojournal.com/Main.asp?ArticleID=6877&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=60
‘A former appliance warehouse built in 1924 has been declared the city’s first landmark of 2009.
The owners of the Lindmann and Hoverson Company Showroom and Warehouse, located at 2620 W. Washington in East Garfield Park, applied to the Commission on Chicago Landmarks in August for the status, giving its approval in January.
. . . . . Kerner said he and his partner, Bold Ventures, intend to keep the 68-unit apartment building, and that the renovation shows that consideration. ‘We’re putting quality into the building to save ourselves the money later,’ he said.
. . . . ‘The units have great light because of the windows – they’re seven by 15 feet, and on the corner units, the walls are all windows,’ said Kerner.
Such amenities could help draw artists and other creative professionals to the structure. ‘We expect to attract creative types from nearby,’ he said.
Kerner said he expects the apartments and a 3,800 square-foot retail space will be available for lease in April or May.
Rent for the one-bedroom loft apartments will be between $900 and $1,000 per month; the two-bedroom units will go for about $1,400.”
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=111081
Just a few things going on . . . 🙂
The only way this place could have ever been “valued” at $690,000 is through fraud. It is not overusing the word to call it this. Could any honest and competent appraiser have really found this to be the fair value, even in 2006? And would any legitimate buyer put up this kind of money for it with the intention of actually paying the mortgage?
If I were betting, I’d say the 2006 “buyer” lied on the no-doc mortgage app about their income, got the place with 100% financing or very close to it, made few if any payments, and just stalled out the foreclosure process for a year. The mortgage broker, realtor, appraiser and possibly the seller were colluding to help this happen.
“just stalled out the foreclosure process for a year”
The foreclosure process usually takes about a year (from notice to foreclosure deed). And it only starts after 90+ days of delinquency. Closed in March, first payment due in April or May, 90 days of delinquency on July 16 or August 16, lis pendens filed ~2 weeks later. Some time gets wasted trying to serve a ghost, and the major lenders usually don’t push the default time periods (esp. redemption), so you’ve got a mimimum of ~8 months from lis pendens to deed and 12 isn’t a sign of the owner even showing up, much less fighting.
i live around the corner from this place. yes, the neighborhood is not where it needs to be, but neither was bucktown some 10-15 years ago. you all make this neighborhood seem a lot worse than it really is — if you don’t want to live there, fine — stay in your north face wearing, cubs loving, all white people neighborhoods with no diversity whatsoever. but don’t knock a neighborhood until you live there.
for every waste of a life hoodrat i encounter, i meet other folks, just like me (black, white, hispanic and asian), that are willing to give the neighborhood a chance and do what they need to do to enjoy and improve it.
stay in lincoln park. we don’t want you here anyways.
“i live around the corner from this place.”
If you didn’t (or don’t) own, would you consider buying this place for $380k, given that you *like* the neighborhood? Or do you think it’s substantially overpriced?
Anon – substantially overpriced compared to what? I was out there all day Sat and it is a good community. Many people were outside grilling or cleaning up from the winter. All it really needs is more commercial development to become an extension of the West loop. The residential has been established already.
$380K for an entire rowhouse seems reasonable to me. the neighborhood has its moments, but i have hope. it really isn’t that bad….seriously.
“substantially overpriced compared to what?”
What you, as someone who likes the ‘hood, would pay for it, if you were in the market *today*.
I’m not the target market, as I want my kids to be able to walk to a neighborhood CPS Elem school and (even you boosters must admit) that’s a weak point for this area for at least the next several years. So I must ask if the boosters would buy it at the asking price.