Walk to Work from This Brick and Concrete 2-Bedroom Loft: 210 S. Des Plaines on the Near West Side
This 2-bedroom authentic loft at 210 S. Des Plaines on the Near West Side has been on the market since May 2011.
It is in a building called “The Edge” which consists of a brick base, which was converted into lofts, and a high rise tower that sits on top of the brick building.
This northeast corner unit was the former developer’s model for the loft portion of the building.
It has tall ceilings and exposed brick with city views.
The master suite has full walls but the second bedroom has only partials.
The kitchen has the finishes you would expect from 2005/2006 construction such as 42 inch cabinets, stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.
The loft is listed $40,000 under the 2005 purchase price at $420,000.
Will they get over $400,000 in this location?
Jean Metzler at Conlon has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #507: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1520 square feet
- Sold in December 2005 for $460,000 (included parking)
- Originally listed in May 2011 for $420,000 (includes parking)
- Currently still listed at $420,000 (includes parking)
- Assessments of $571 a month (includes heat, a/c, gas, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $5217
- Central Air
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Bedroom #1: 15×14
- Bedroom #2: 10×12
If they could have gotten over $400K for this unit they probably would have already gotten it after 78 days – even in this market. They might as well price it at $399K since they would pick up a lot more buyers whose threshold is $400K.
One thing I find ridiculous in the real estate market is the concept of the lowball offer. Generally, the real estate profession strongly discourages offers less than 10% of list, and even with that, the seller is likely to counteroffer. The average sales price is usually within 94 or 95% of list and in hot markets its usually 98% or 99% of list.
However, in other industries, the lowball offer is part of doing business. I know for example in law, plaintiffs and defendants – regardless of the cause of action – are rarely, if ever, within 10% of each other. I’ve had cases where I’ve demanded $500,000 and the defendant, as either arrogance and/or a negotiation tactic, counter-offered with $1,500. That’s an extreme example, of course, but insurance companies have it written into their manuals to always lowball on the first and second offer no matter how strong the plaintiff’s suit it. Eventually, an often in a short time period, the claims settle for a reasonable amount, but there is this little dance.
Real estate appears to be the exact opposite. I’ve read online that there are realtors who will counter a lowball offer (which is more than 10% of list) with an offer higher than the original ask as their way of saying “get real”. In most cases, the lowball offers are dismissed, or counter-offer with something in the less than 10% off list range. Realtors always encourage this and tell buyers to wait for a better offer. The internet is full of realtor boards (active rain, etc) lambasting, and practically blacklisting, any buyer or fellow realtor who for even a moment thinks its OK to lowball. EVen if the low ball price is truly the ‘market price’.
This however, leads to a stagnant an stale real estate market because interested sellers have to wait for a home to lower it’s price to something within the 10% of the price a seller is willing to pay, which in many cases, can take years, if ever.
For example, this case here:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4111-W-Addison-St-60641/home/13457382
This home has been listed on an off since 2009, there is no mortgage, no liens, it would sell in an instant, but it’s listing price refuses to budge within a 5% range. In realtity, this dump is worth less than $120,000, and because that market price more than 10% off the listing price, I’d bet regular buyer has made an offer on the house, and investors don’t waste their time lowballing properties with obstinate sellers.
Coming full circle to the property here, we all know that it’s going to sell for less $400,000; everyone including the realtor and the seller probably know this. However, like Gary says, give it s measly 5% reduction to $399,000 and that opens up an entirely new pool of buyers. However, it’s stupid that the pool of buyers is stuck within a 10% list ranage. Why doesn’t the buyer just offer $350, or $325? Why isn’t the broker encouraging them to counter at $345? (absent underwater listings), so many more properties would move so much quicker if realtors would only take listings priced appropirate, or at least give the lowballs some consideration.
there are so many properties i would buy, tomorrow, to house my family, and we all know they’re worth 30% or 40% off the listing price, but most if not all accepted offers are within 10% of list; so the properties languish and sit, and but seemingly lately, so many of these languishing properties who held firm for a years are finally getting some bites within 10% of list.
So maybe I’m the one that’s naive here.
I cant walk to work from here!!!! not everybody works in the loop, the jimmy johns i work at is no way walking distance from here.
gary,
also the guy has room to price there comfortably. maybe the agent did the best he could and got him at 420k with tooth pulling?
400K or 420K seems to be an overreach to me. I think 375K wouldn’t be beyond the realm of possibility, based on the SQF and location. It’s not a super ideal location (kind of close to the highway) but it is convenient for anyone who works or commutes near Ogilvie/Union Station.
This one on W Wash is 1775 SQF with a lofted 2nd and this seems to merit its asking price far more than the one posted:
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/1017-W-Washington-Unit-3I-CHICAGO-IL-60607-E5WMPOP4T5INM.html
We’ve been hunting primarily in the West Loop, and if I had a nickel for every property overpriced by at least 15% to 20% that we’ve seen, I could probably buy without a mortgage!
Homedelete,
You are not totally off base but let me add a little more perspective:
1) Unlike litigation there IS a market for real estate so there is little point in lowballing way below the market. When a buyer does this they lose credibility with the seller and the seller also worries that if they do sell to this unrealistic buyer they will have been taken advantage of.
2) So can you lowball NEAR the market? Of course. But in some cases it will be pointless because there will be clear signals that the seller is just being unrealistic.
3) The bigger question is whether or not it’s worth a buyer’s time to go trolling for overpriced properties that they can successfully lowball. That would be a huge time sink since I think a very low percentage of sellers are overpriced AND realistic on what they can get for their properties. See the dichotomy there? If you don’t want to pay more than 375K then looking at properties priced above 400K would just bog you down.
Is the second alleged bedroom without a window. If so, then this place is an epic fail for the price IMO.
Executed Recorded Document Type Amount
10/22/2009 11/03/2009 MORTGAGE $338,000.00
Nice place… any idea from anyone what this would rent for?
Makes me shake my head how nice stuff is done in the states. You are so lucky to have so much product to work with.
This location is too close to work for me….I’d want some separation either by living in WL, Sloop, or River North. There are nice loft buildings in these locations (although more expensive in RN) that have a better neighborhood feel.
“3) The bigger question is whether or not it’s worth a buyer’s time to go trolling for overpriced properties that they can successfully lowball. That would be a huge time sink since I think a very low percentage of sellers are overpriced AND realistic on what they can get for their properties. See the dichotomy there? If you don’t want to pay more than 375K then looking at properties priced above 400K would just bog you down.”
Well I agree completely that if you want to troll for value you should go for the guy offering the 400k value @400k – because he is already telling you he is more aggressive, the unrealistic guy is already telling you he is the less aggressive seller.
My differentiation comes from the final sentence, since the 410k offer on the 420k value property, could very well be exactly the guy most likely to also go below 400k.
Argument holds the same regardless of price. My sentiments.
I’m not getting bogged down, so to speak, I’m just noting taht over and over again G lists sales figures, that appear to be at generational lows; and if sellers wanted to sell, they should have an agent who does his job and actively pitches the lowball offer to the client. Otherwise properties just sit, and sit, and have 5% reductions like that stupid property on addison (which i would never consider btw); so sales are sluggish and properties are stale…
And there is a market for litigation too. for example, the most common type of car accident injury is back pain: thousands of these accidenets happen every day acorss teh country. If you are in a car accident and you hurt your back, you have roughly $3,000 in medical bills, and you can settle out of court for roughly $5,000 or $6,000 (you can sue and fight in court for years and maybe get $9,000 after 3 years); the plaintiffs always start out asking for $12,000 or more, the insurnace company counters with $3,000 or less, and it works its way up to $5,000 or $6,000 etc. I use stupid small soft tissue cases because there are an abdudence of them and they have been the most studied and analyzed by the insurance industry. No one is going ot settle for less than the amount of the medical bills, because they have to pay the bills, yet, nearly all the insurance companies low ball anyways.
Yet real estate doesn’t even try to do this. I’ve read stories of peple listing at $145,000 with offers at $130,00 being rejected (because at 10.3% of list it’s a low ball); I’ve seen stories of deals being held up over a few thousand, like someone lists at $220,000 and the offer is $210,000 and the parties won’t settle on $215,000. Its so stupid, why even bother wasting valuable time negotiating over such small amounts. $5,000 on a $200,000 deal is negligible, just the difference between $399,000 and $420,000 is negligible, it’s a fricking rounding error in the scheme of things, yet, somehow (and it’s true) that 5% difference may produce a ton of offers from buyers. Hell, the house we talked about in the villa a few weeks ago is listed with no liens at $375,000; it’s worth somewhere in the high $100’s or low $200’s (needs $125k in work to make it like new), but why bother making a low ball offer 40% off list after 120 days on the market. That lowball offer will go in the shredder if it even makes it to the sellers ears. Yet everyone knows it’s valuable but this ridiculous wait is dragging down the market, reducing sales to generational lows and causing further damage to teh economy.
“because there are an abdudence of them and they have been the most studied and analyzed by the insurance industry”
You answer part of your own question right there. Insurance has value predetermined so good boy Larry.. you lowballed and settled for 5k on a ‘transaction’ the ‘firm’ very well and very accurately values at 6k. Well done!
The other has much less transparent value. If you are in a condo with 400 units value is easily determined, within reason. Yesterdays 5 car disaster really will be a huge range of opinions as to value.
Now throw in that people are very personally attached around that value as well.
There are over 5 million re transactions per year and those numbers and values are easily discernable. Comps work great. Realtors should show them to sellers before taking a listing.
and i meant to type 5 car garage… don’t want to confuse it with an insurance accident.
It also leads to the ‘birthdays’ syndrome where properties can celebrate their inital listing date as sellers chase the market down. The backwards think re industry should be blackballing these sellers and those realtors who list at ridiculous prices and keep properties listed over 6 months, instead of lambasting anyone who even thinks of making a lowball offer. Its counter productive, it keeps re transactions low and it keeps sellers ridixulos expectations high. Just my two cents.
“There are over 5 million re transactions per year and those numbers and values are easily discernable. ”
So play a game. Pick any generic condo downtown and I bet you can get a comfortable ‘feel’ within 50-75k of “value” per million, on almost any building.
How close do you think you can get on yesterdays 5 car garage total makeover? I haven’t a freakin clue, and know it would take a hell of a lot of work to get one.
Also, as a buyer I wouldn’t even have the same value. If I am looking at it rent vs buy I would be much more aggressive as a buyer than if I am looking at it for investment purposes, where I need to price to DEMAND a damn good chance at a positive return.
The 5 car garage property is different than a ranch, or a two slat or a 5bd brick sfh in lakeview. Unique proerties are the exception.
I think that this is way over-priced, probably by around $60k or more. Around $350k is probably a realistic sale price. I think that the high-rise units are far more desirable in this building – all the low-rise loft units seem weirdly-shaped and cramped to me.
People have the right to their private property. They have the right to price it as they wish whether that is or is not within the ballpark of value. If it is mis-priced they simply will not transact. But no one has any right to tell someone where they MUST sell or buy anything.
You might actually be surprised how many transactions take place in the world at what yesterday were completely unrealistic prices.
local: This is technically in the West Loop, fyi.
I highly doubt this will sell for $420k. $380k is probably more realistic.
But why waste time and energy and mls listings on properties that won’t transact? Its stupid.
Kind of like Heaven Can Wait, where the guy was highballing the Rams for 68 million.
btw… Nice buy.
HD, it is pretty easy to ascertain the current value of a unit through finding appropriate comps. It makes no sense to low ball because every offer from buyer and counter offer from seller should be backed up by third party data justifying the price.
Lenders and appraisals keep the market in check for 95% of the properties now.
The only times I see properties selling significantly below the true value as determined by an independent appraiser is if there is a situation where there is an opportunity to take advantage of the seller – needs to sell in a hurry, divorce, financial distress, estate sale, foreclosure, etc. However, those rock bottom deals also come with drawbacks that most normal buyers do not want to deal with and has been discussed multiple times on this site.
Also, you cannot assume that because the broader market is down 20% or whatever number you calculate that ALL properties should be discounted at a similar percentage.
I just got an appraisal for a large duplex in LP that came in at $680k. It was bought maybe 5 years ago for around the same price. I just knew it would come in lower, but the comps are all there to support the value.
Russ: but what if the 680k property was listed at 800k? Why is it an insult to offer 680 even though its worth 680 but listed at 800? What if the ‘lowball’ offer really is market value?
I would goi broke pretty quickly if I held out, and encouraged my clients to do the same, for 300k on every pi suit I had worth 200k.
Many realtors have gone broke this bust listing overpriced props that never sell or eventually delist. Its just stupid if you ask me.
“Comps work great. Realtors should show them to sellers before taking a listing.”
I think this has been brought up many times on this site. We cannot tell for certain from the asking price if it was the seller or the agent who set the price.
from what I’ve read online and talking with agents I know is that — especially today — most try to convince the seller to set the price based off the best comps available. If a seller doesn’t agree, she is likely to go find another agent so the agent sticks with the property “just in case”.
“But why waste time and energy and mls listings on properties that won’t transact? Its stupid.”
It won’t show, it won’t transact, it won’t get any attention. It’s a simple neglected digital listing, how much ‘waste’ is really occurring?
Stupid – yes – in a manner of being unrealistic. I would just never not entitle someone to offer their personal property at what price THEY see fit. Be it real estate or ebay. It just won’t transact. Who who says a transaction ‘has’ to be forced anyway? Is real estate some special market where discrepancies in valuations must merge, and transactions over individuals personal goods ‘have’ to occur?
Icarus,
bro, did you read my response on the lundy thread?
And I am sure every sell broker does everything they can to get their seller to come down as much as possible. At the end of the day. It is not the brokers property. I would assume, considering NAR control, that there should be some kind of legal issue with not accepting a listing.
Groove,
sure did. Any day now I expect to hear from your attorney asking for me to pay for your eye surgery.
“so the agent sticks with the property “just in case”.”
Exactly why I have no need to know the legality issue. It is never an issue.
“Any day now I expect to hear from your attorney asking for me to pay for your eye surgery.”
Groove.. Icarus got you in the eye?
My highly unscientific perception is that this year I see a lot fewer properties that are grossly overpriced relative to market (but obviously may vary by location). E.g., taking a quick look, not a lot of SFHs in btown that are say $750K to $1MM and sitting for 90+ days (maybe just a couple, including that cottage on Homer we’ve talked about). A year or two ago, it did seem like there were many that sat for half a year or more, priced significantly above market. But there really weren’t that many transactions to establish the market price a couple years ago, so you could reasonably debate what the market price actually was.
I do also think for some areas of Chicago and for some types of properties, market price is hard to determine, which encourages people to hold out for an aspirational price. Maybe someone will fall in love with your beautiful cottage in btown. You’re not going to see that in a subdivision in burbs with cookie cutter houses.
“Lenders and appraisals keep the market in check for 95% of the properties now.”
I’ve had an appraiser tell me that a unit on a low floor looking at a brick wall has the same view value as the same floor plan 30 floors higher with a panoramic city view because they were facing the same direction. From my limited experience appraisers seem to be complete idiots.
Why are greektown properties so frickin expensive, I mean it is a nice area but sheesh
yeah for some reason views aren’t calculated when doing appraisals but a fireplace is an extra or minus $5,000 which is stupid
Wow. This place is shockingly over priced.
Now, this is a fantastic loft (in bit further west), but $100,000 less: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1000-W-Washington-Blvd-60607/unit-508/home/12788917
IMHO, this property is priced too high but not terribly so for the size, quality, and location. Per the MLS, a smaller unit on the same floor recently sold as a relo for $335K without parking. And there are a lot of recent sold comps in the area from $360-420K.
The Edge is a well-maintained building and the concrete loft section is the unique part of the building (the tower units are pretty but more generic) so I see this realistically selling/appraising for $380-390K (more if the assessments were lower).
Sure fsbo can waste their own time but why waste realtors and other brokers time? The industry should be encouraging sales sales sales and high priced wishing prices is counter-productive to making money and completing sales.
““Any day now I expect to hear from your attorney asking for me to pay for your eye surgery.”
Groove.. Icarus got you in the eye?”
great now a new image FU to you both 🙂
P.S. one day i will talk about the subject property in the thread
that place is cool jenny, but its a short sale AND its already under contract, so you can’t really go out and just “buy it” right now instead of this place but damn I would be all over that place if I was looking
“The industry should be encouraging sales”
They are. But it’s my asset and I don’t give a shit what’s productive to them making money and completing sales. They will always take the offer, and the bet, I eventually have a ‘come to Jesus’ moment. And a good bet it is.
Think of something simple like AAPL. It transacts at current price, but behind that current price there are standing orders just sitting there day after day for millions of shares that won’t transact for months. Why should real estate look any different.
“I would assume, considering NAR control, that there should be some kind of legal issue with not accepting a listing.”
Nope. We can refuse any listing we want. Usually, if the seller is rational, they will just tell you that they can’t afford to sell at that price and they decide to rent it out.
“There are over 5 million re transactions per year and those numbers and values are easily discernable. Comps work great. Realtors should show them to sellers before taking a listing.”
But as you might imagine, even within the same building, different tiers and unique floor plans might have significantly different values/ SF. If a particular tier hasn’t sold in a while there is a lot of room for debate regarding views and number of windows and finishes.
So help me with the wording of this offer letter:
Dear Seller,
I have noticed your property at XYZ Main Street, Somewhere USA and would like to submit my offer. This offer is based not only on what I can afford to pay for your property but what I feel is fair market value for your property, which has been on the market for 150+ days.
I therefore submit an offer of $xxxK. Contingent upon inspection and bank approval.
please let me know within 5 business days, after which, this offer becomes revoked.
Icarus
What’s the old saying, ” the first offer is usually the best offer” and how often has that rang true?
When you have all tehse properties listed in teh MLS at wishing non=market prices, it starts to look at little like the craigslist apartment rental section, where you type in ‘Pilsen’ and you get rentals for every neighborhood including pilsen, and often the same 10x properties at a ‘wishing price’ pop up 40x of the 50 on your page. that’s the MLS these days.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4323-N-Kostner-Ave-60641/home/13480936
THis property i talked about last july (still not interested in it today) and it originaly listed for $575,000 in april 2007! Four birthdays! It’s nearly 50% of the original list price now and just sitting, no liens, no offers, no mortgage. vacant.
I see the some of the same properties listed over and over again. The industry shoud be encouraging short sales anyone smoeone comes to them and says “I’m underwater” great – let’s fill out the shrot sale package, you’ll walk away bringing little money to the table.
I’m not sure that offers that are more than 10% off list frequently get rejected out of hand. See, for example, this page with the sell/list ratios for the North Shore for July 2011: http://activerain.com/blogsview/2433643/july-2011-housing-sales-in-winnetka-wilmette-kenilworth-glencoe-and-northfield. The 85% for Kenilworth almost surely means that potential buyers were making offers of 80% of list price and probably less. Even if you discount Kenilworth because of the small number of sales and high average number of days on the market, Winnetka had a 91% ratio which likewise strongly indicates that the average buyer’s opening offer was well under 90% of list.
Groove. Almost said Face Paint… almost!! Now enjoy that visual and wathch who da f ya tell ta go F dem selves…
HD… back from terrace and in a more lucid state.
Think of this. Where your sentiments don’t hold. Let’s say I own an investment property that I rent. Lets say we at rent vs own parity on purchase price. As an owner I rent and lets assume I receive a small positive return doing this. Maybe I calculate that at a certain sale price way above market, it is more beneficial to sell the asset. Fair assumption I think. This argument exists for the life in which I own the asset.
Now if that number requires me to offer 20% over what rent vs own would value it, well then my offer gets neglected. But not only do I have the right to offer it. That ridiculous offer -even sliding up- would have been taken out in this run up when prices exploded over rents. And the broker eventually might think I am bat shit insane. But they would have gotten paid (type new number – hit enter) Yep, take the listing!
“Nope. We can refuse any listing we want. Usually, if the seller is rational, they will just tell you that they can’t afford to sell at that price and they decide to rent it out.”
Gary, I appreciate your responding to me. Trust me, your response was my truest assumption. My desire to remain ignorant was for a reason. I will now go and forget it.
“One thing I find ridiculous in the real estate market is the concept of the lowball offer. Generally, the real estate profession strongly discourages offers less than 10% of list, and even with that, the seller is likely to counteroffer. The average sales price is usually within 94 or 95% of list and in hot markets its usually 98% or 99% of list.”
Homedelete – lowball offers sometimes succeed. For example, we recently purchased a home, then listed for $369,000, for $305,000 (and it was originally listed for $600,000 18 months prior). The seller (who apparently had turned down a much higher offer of $500,000 very early in the sales process) accepted our offer without countering.
It seems to me that low ball offers are more likely to work on properties such as the one we purchased – those that have been on the market for a bit, and may have been overpriced initially (the property was marketed as a tear down, but we chose to renovate for now and consider building sometime in the future).
Jenny,
Here is another cool loft in the W.L. if you are still looking. Much cooler than the Edge listing.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1101-W-Lake-St-60607/unit-5D/home/39556801
“Generally, the real estate profession strongly discourages offers less than 10% of list…”
I’m not very up-to-speed on antitrust law, but I’d love to see the DOJ and state agencies look closely at the MLS and realtors’ organizations. But this is pretty much the definition of price-fixing, at least as much as it can be enforced through a cartel of rent-seekers who don’t even own the assets.
it is pretty neat jp3chicago.
“wathch who da f ya tell ta go F dem selves”
did you miss the smiley face after the sentence? sorry if you read it different than its intention.
JDM: that is very useful information to know that lowballs sometimes work, because according to every realtor blog or post I’ve read, lowballs are a waste of everybody’s time. the way they make it sound is like a lowball offer is god damn blasphemy and heresy.
Additionally, you had to wait 18 months for the property be reasonably price and even then you made an offer roughly 20% off list.
I guess it takes that 18 months, which is about what i figured it would take.
“did you miss the smiley face after the sentence? sorry if you read it different than its intention.”
my bad… I can not be offended by insults I know are in humor. Actually insults not in humor I generally laugh at as well. Let em fly!
“I’m not very up-to-speed on antitrust law, but I’d love to see the DOJ and state agencies look closely at the MLS and realtors’ organizations. But this is pretty much the definition of price-fixing, at least as much as it can be enforced through a cartel of rent-seekers who don’t even own the assets.”
Perhaps, though I’d say the so-called standard 6% commission rate is better grounds for an action. Then again, I’ve long argued that many real estate folks often engage in the unlicensed practice of law, to say nothing of their routine violation of fiduciary duties, and one never hears about actions against real estate organizations or individual brokers. Something tells me that those folks have a pretty strong lobby.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4458-W-Berteau-Ave-60641/home/13482277
Last list $599,900
Sold $565,000
94.5% of list.
“I’m not very up-to-speed on antitrust law, but I’d love to see the DOJ and state agencies look closely at the MLS and realtors’ organizations. But this is pretty much the definition of price-fixing, at least as much as it can be enforced through a cartel of rent-seekers who don’t even own the assets.”
“Perhaps, though I’d say the so-called standard 6% commission rate is better grounds for an action.”
But there’s nothing systematic on either front. DOJ has looked at MLSs and brought cases on business rules. If it’s just a few realtors agreeing among themselves, that is technically a violation, but harder to prove, hard to interest DOJ in such a small case, and hard to get a class action going. My guess is anything systematic is in the opposite direction, of realtor associations providing training on what is not permitted.
jp3 that place’s balcony is right on the green line, this place is also in a far better location
“Perhaps, though I’d say the so-called standard 6% commission rate is better grounds for an action. ”
The very first case they showed us in class action class in law school was the 1960’s case against the realtors group for the 6% commission. It was shot down and there has never been another lawsuit again with respect to that issue.
It also very easily runs into the… We have the responsibility to advise our clients on the viability of a sale and statistics show that offers made within a 10% range of ‘value’ are more likely to transact within a shorter timeframe… yadda yadda… Have fun!
“The very first case they showed us in class action class in law school was the 1960’s case against the realtors group for the 6% commission. It was shot down and there has never been another lawsuit again with respect to that issue.”
I don’t know the case but was there actual evidence of systematic agreements? I also find it just about impossible to believe there’s never been another suit.
“Jenny–Wow. This place is shockingly over priced.
Now, this is a fantastic loft (in bit further west), but $100,000 less: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1000-W-Washington-Blvd-60607/unit-508/home/12788917”
FYI—none of the listings at 1000 W. Washington should service as comps for lofts in Chicago. The building has multiple leaks, mold and many lawsuits..residents are suing the Board and vice versa…see these websites;
http://www.1000westlofts-lawsuit.com/site/
People are practically paying to have units taken off there hands b/c of future special assessments and liability. No lofts here can service as comps…
Sonies…see entry above.
Thanks JP3! It seems there are a lot of unique places out there for less than this one.
I don’t know why the sellers here are even bothering. Keeping the house neat and having to run out whenever there is a showing (although at this price, I doubt there are too many showings) is a huge pain.
Maybe the bank wants it listed for a high price for months to prove that a deeper short sale is necessary.
I’d much rather take the W Lake place, it’s amazing. I wish I could buy it actually.
The whole lowball thing is so ridiculous. When we bought our place the seller countered our first offer with full ask, but accepted our second offer which was only $2k more than our first. It’s just the game of not accepting the first offer, unless it’s amazing (in which case you probably set your ask too low). What a waste of everyone’s time for $2k, although I wonder how many buyers would have come back much higher on the second offer in the same situation.
This seller however has probably had several lowball offers and dismissed them all. They say the true value of something is what someone is willing to pay, and apparently this seller thinks someone out there is willing to pay that much. The question is how long it will take for them to either find that elusive buyer, or adjust their expectations. Perhaps they have no intention of actually selling if they don’t get that much.
in re: 1101 W Lake St Unit 5D
Nice place but it scares the hell out of me when I see a crib because, well, I have a crib in my house too – and, well, if I were childless but there was the possibility that there might a crib soon, that crib advertises: This is not a place for children.
“THis property i talked about last july (still not interested in it today) and it originaly listed for $575,000 in april 2007!”
HD, what’s wrong with the Kostner place for 299.5K? Okay, it’s not brick, and it’s less than 500 feet from the Kennedy, but look at that yard!
What do you think is a good price for it?
The house on kostner was last updated in the 1970’s, there is no upstairs shower which means you have to go through the kitchen to get to the bathroom which is pink and dates to the 60s or 70’s, the driveway is too small on the side of the house to put in a garage; there is no AC; it’s carpeted, has drop ceilings like an office; the old wood trim is painted over, the basement is too small to finish, and it’s only 1,500 sq ft but sure as hell doesn’t feel like it.
the short sale across the street sold last july for $290 (slightly smaller lot) and it had major updates like windows, kitchen, a second bathroom, shower upstairs, a finished attic with interior stair case, new electrical. The short sale across the street is pending at $200,000; it’s way more updated, sort of a hack job though (DIY). Still no garage, smallish size.
So, to answer your question, probably somewhere in the low $200’s or maybe even lower than that give the $125 or $150k a buyer is going to need to put into it in order to make it ‘new’ that buyers want, like sabrina says.
that’s what people want – either a ‘deal’ or ‘new’. The kostner property has been listed four years now, four years, and there’s nothing wrong it with it structurally, it’s just that it needs major updating, and nobody wants to buy a 1970’s home today.
Okay, but just make an offer then. Who cares? What have you got to lose?
You’re way ahead of the game by getting a structurally sound house. The other stuff is not a big deal.
Anon tfo and I were talking offline yesterday about wood refinishers with reasonable pricing. We’ve got a couple of good ones in mind.
And my contractor can take care of the updating for you. He specializes in electric, btw:
David Wilczak
Next Level Improvement
nextlevelimprovement@gmail.com
708-926-4516
“The kostner property has been listed four years now, four years, and there’s nothing wrong it with it structurally, it’s just that it needs major updating, and nobody wants to buy a 1970’s home today.”
it doesn’t help that it has a swimming pool. I disagree about the small drive way & putting up a garage.
it does need major updating and the other limitations that HD mentioned.
I drove my car up the little driveway and there is literally no room for error without hitting the house. The neighbors lot line is like right there, so go inches in either direction and you’re hitting the house or driving over the neighbor’s lot line.
I don’t want the house due to the limitations, I at the minimum want an extra room to make an office, and there’s only six rooms (kitchen, living room, dining room, 3 beds); basement height is exactly 6″ feet, give or take a few inches.
Anyway, i’m just pointing out that this listing is a bit extreme at four years, but teh MLS is full of these stale properties.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3655-N-Avers-Ave-60618/home/13457018
this property will be a year in september
I’m kinda loving that Kostner place. You could rip out that above ground swimming pool easily. Imagine the parties you could have in that yard. It’s close to the Montrose stop on the blue line. The paint and carpeting are hideous, but it’s all cosmetic. Just rip it out. I could live with the kitchen for a few years. There’s nothing wrong with it. I would probably sand down the cabinets and paint them white. The bathroom’s ug too, but you could live with it until you had the $$$ to remodel. At least it’s clean and in good repair. You could install a second shower in the half-bath. It looks like the owners have maintained the mechanicals well.
I like Avers too, but it’s right on the Kennedy.
Regarding the pink bath on Kostner, can you reglaze the tub in white? Then, just replace the vanity with something more neutral and you’re good.
The kostner house is OK but again, you’d have to cut into the bedroom space to install a 3/4’s shower; and we all know it would be years to save up the dough to spend $15000 on the bathrooms; and $20,000 on the kitchen.
HD –
The short sale you mentioned – was it 4326 N Kostner? Listed for 200K and under contract? It’s gorgeous and has 4 BRs and 3 BAs:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4326-N-Kostner-Ave-60641/home/13481683
That place is gorgeous! I could deal with no garage.
HD –
Call David Wilczak. He will do it for way less and he will do a beautiful job. He’s a perfectionist.
Sorry not to be rude, but why does a family f 3 need a 4 bedroom to live in? Cannot you settle for a 3BR and just live for a few years with not perfect bath and kitchen?
Real estate can be very emotional. The owners are the ones pricing their property, if they are unreasonable there is only so much a realtor can do. They will often take the listing rather than walk away.
When I see a unit overpriced by more than 10% normally I figure it is a waste fo time to make a normal offer. This changes once it has been on the market for a while (then maybe reality will sink in). There are some people though that will only sell for their price so they just won’t take less. It’s their right, even though they end up wasting a lot of other people’s time.
I have noticed that when properties go under contract the list price sometimes changes. Maybe this is a way that percentage of list is manipulated.
@miumiu, lot’s of reasons. You might want to use the extra room as an office or a guest bedroom. I suppose you might want to put the nanny up too if you have one, or it can be a playroom if your basement isn’t finished.
“Sorry not to be rude, but why does a family f 3 need a 4 bedroom to live in? ”
I have a family of 4, and we have a 5 br house. Our bedroom, each kid has their own bedroom, guest room and office. I really would not be happy if I had to give one of those rooms up.
The problem with a dated kitchen is two fold: first of all the kitchen is already 30 years old; so it’s not just dated like 10 years, it’s almost as old as I am, which means it has wear and tear over the years and 2) it takes money and time to fix things up as you go along. usually people redid kitchen’s with HELOC’s as the value of homes went up. few new owners can take heloc’s within a few years of buying these days. even if I could save up $30k these days the last thing I”m going to is use 30k of my own money to pay for a new kitchen. so people move in with the best intentions to do these updates over time and they often never happen.
The W. Lake Street condo is right on the Green line, possibly the kid can’t sleep with the noise from the trains.
The 1000 W. washington is probably the worst condo/association in the city. http://www.1000westlofts-lawsuit.com/site/
Wow! I had no idea about 1000 w. Washington. My friend lives in that building in a three level loft. It’s really gorgeous… it’s sad about the building though. It has a very nice feel to it, but I guess looks can be deceiving.
I understand that it is nice to have a guest room, home office and all, but if one is short on cash there has to be a compromise. Also I doubt HD has a live-in nanny.
Look at:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4660-N-Leclaire-Ave-60630/home/13478659
To me it is a very decent place to raise a young family.
miumiu: that is very nice house. Very decent, and reasonably affordable. yes the kitchen is dated but at least it’s nice and looks OK, and it has newer applicances. and it has a new roof and electrical, and other things, so $260,000 is a reasonable price. It doesn’t ahve everything (full bath on first floor) but it’s sacrifice and compromises at that price point but this one looks good.
“jenny Wow! I had no idea about 1000 w. Washington. My friend lives in that building in a three level loft. It’s really gorgeous… it’s sad about the building though. It has a very nice feel to it, but I guess looks can be deceiving.”
It is sad, the building has great architecture and views. I live in a different loft building and have seen buyers try to use 1000 W. Washington comps to negotiate lower prices. It never works as the listing agents who regularly list in our builidng are aware of the huge problems in W. Washington, including the fact that the City is not suing the building. Either the buyer’s agents didn’t do their homework or they think sellers are stupid. I suspect its the former…
“The 1000 W. washington is probably the worst condo/association in the city.”
Why don’t the owners elect better representatives? Seems like the people they don’t like have been in place for a while. Is the claim that they are incompetent or corrupt?
“To me it is a very decent place to raise a young family.”
Looks great for HD, incl xway proximity. Even a potentially viable elem. Take the money set aside for private school and upgrade over time.
miumiu –
Good job on finding the Leclaire house. It’s really nice, and I think the CCers like the Beaubien school district too.
Milkster- please share!
“Anon tfo and I were talking offline yesterday about wood refinishers with reasonable pricing. We’ve got a couple of good ones in mind.”
This place looked nice too (dunno about that fireplace), oriole park elem:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/7640-W-Rascher-Ave-60656/home/13557282
DZ – NICE!
You could paint the brick fireplace white to match the white brick in the kitchen. I love white kitchen cabinets with stainless steel appliances.
When things are structurally sound you can easily make cheap cosmetic fixes to modernize the look.
it is lovely DZ, but is over 300K.
“it is lovely DZ, but is over 300K.”
And the answer is…LOWBALL!
I don’t know anything about the hood, but if it is a nice one and this sells below 300K, it is a deal for sure.
“Milkster- please share!”
For wood refinishers:
Anon tfo knew people who had used The Stripp Joynt 773-478-6500.
For the moment I’ve booked an estimate with Peter’s Wood Refinishing:
http://www.peterswoodrefinishing.com/
What do you guys think? I’ve got 3 standard size wooden doors. Two have been covered in layers of white paint. One has been stripped but not treated or stained. What’s a good price for the job including pick-up and delivery?
yeah, other than whatnotwhat’s quote of $90 an hour, how much does woodstripping cost? why the hell did so many people put white layers of paint over the woodwork during the 50’s? WTF!
Once again, I’ve missed out on some good discussions here. I’ll respond to this one.
“I see the some of the same properties listed over and over again. The industry shoud be encouraging short sales anyone smoeone comes to them and says “I’m underwater” great – let’s fill out the shrot sale package, you’ll walk away bringing little money to the table.”
There are so many reasons people don’t do short sales: 1) don’t want to screw up their credit 2) Have some cash saved and don’t want to part with it 3) Can rent it out at close to break even cash flow.
Yes- I got a quote over the phone of $90/hr from
(sorry, grabby baby + iPhone) Best Way Refinishing in Hodgkins. That’s for in-home work, in Chicago. To pickup/deliver and strip a 9 pane French door was $250 without restaining. Not door-related, but I also got a quote to custom manufacture door casings– $800 for 50 ft, stained ($200 to machine the cutting blade, 50 ft min order). This is cheaper than stripping, but then the house isn’t “original” anymore.
wow the costs add up quickly i’ve noticed. here’s an interesting link:
http://www.oldhouseweb.com/how-to-advice/estimated-remodeling-and-repair-costs.shtml
stripping paint, repainting and restaining, plaster repair, electrical, finish basement, attic (or on the kostner house, add an 800 foot addition on the back!) rip out pool, redo trim as necessary, redo the 1970’s era kitchens with electric stoves, add a shower upstairs….so much money to modernize these homes. no wonder they aren’t even selling in the $300,000 or $400,000 range.
Bell school, brick 2 flat, east(ish) of western, $250K. If HD is willing to live on the xway, being on western can’t be that objectionable.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3513-N-Western-Ave-60618/home/13387838
i can live near the expressway but I cannot live on western!
GROOVE FOR YOU!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3819-W-Montrose-Ave-60618/home/13484060
A chance to get into albany park!
“GROOVE FOR YOU!
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3819-W-Montrose-Ave-60618/home/13484060
A chance to get into albany park!”
all the wood paneling, the horror, the hooorreeeer
I rented a studio apartment in this building for a year (Feb 2010-2011) and had a very good experience there. Building manager was easy to deal with (rarely needed her), maintenance guy very responsive, and the doormen/women were extremely friendly and always fun to talk to. They still need to expand the exercise room though into a bigger space with more equipment.
The assessments also include a lot and I feel are reasonably priced. This unit in particular, I feel, is overpriced and should come down to 375/400k