Was This 3-Bedroom House Priced Too High for This Part of Beverly? 1721 W. 104th Sells
We last chattered about this 3-bedroom Dutch Colonial at 1721 W. 104th in Beverly in December 2010.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
On the market since September 2010, those of you who commented about the property thought it was priced too richly for the neighborhood (after all, what cop making $50,000 could afford it? That was one argument).
It went under contract shortly after appearing on CribChatter and recently closed just $29,000 under the original list price.
The house was on an extra large 100×135 lot and had a two car garage.
While just 1500 square feet, it retained much of its vintage charm.
Did the chatterers misjudge this property?
Carole Klein at City Point Realty had the listing.
1721 W. 104th Place: 3 bedrooms, 1.5 baths, 1500 square feet, 2 car garage
- I couldn’t find a prior sales price
- Originally listed in September 2010 for $319,000
- Was listed in December 2010 for $319,000
- Sold in February 2011 for $292,000
- Taxes of $841
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 20×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 9×14 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 13×14 (main level)
Taxes are $841? Was that a typo? Please tell me they’re at least $1,841.
@Michelle – could be a senior exemption/freeze/whatever it’s called. Since there wasn’t a sale for a long time, it might have been someone who lived there for 20-30-40 years.
ie, taxes will go up with the sale.
“Did the chatterers misjudge this property?”
sabrina did we even talk/chatter about the property last time? 🙂
“@Michelle – could be a senior exemption/freeze/whatever it’s called. Since there wasn’t a sale for a long time, it might have been someone who lived there for 20-30-40 years.”
it is a senior freeze and exemption, the freeze is insane its like paying no taxes at all. its for seniors that make less that 40k a year.
last time i calc’d the real taxes to be 4k or 5k cant remember.
I’ll bookmark the property and post an update on teh financing. Was it 20% down or was it 3.5% government backed funny money? We’ll know in a few weeks. That makes all the difference.
What makes all the difference of what? money is money, it sold…
And believe it or not, FHA isn’t going away any time soon… The gubbermint (and mortgage insurance companies) just can’t help themselves
Groove77 on February 9th, 2011 at 8:47 am
“sabrina did we even talk/chatter about the property last time? ”
looks like everyone is still trying to solve the minority-racism issues on the Logan Square thread
HD, you do realize that according to the Mortgage Banker’s Assoc, the best performing loans in the market right now are VA loans…
drum roll….
The vast majority of VA loans are 100% financing. In fact, they also offer some of the best low down payment jumbo financing available. The reason they perform is because the underwriting is more thorough (they look at residual income including child care costs which no other loan product includes in DTI).
The point being you cannot just say low money down is the culprit. Mortgage underwriting for the most part is coloring by numbers due to an over reliance on statistical models, fannie/freddie, and FICO scores. Long story short… very little actual common sense and thought goes into it whereas VA loans tend to be more holistic in their approach and it shows in the numbers.
“looks like everyone is still trying to solve the minority-racism issues on the Logan Square thread”
i thought the previous chatter about this place was how much a cop makes so HD could figure out the funny money calculation so Clio could promote buying any place no matter the price so then G and him could argue so then Anon could help point out Clio and his lack of comprehension then Clio would ask for data then G would post the data then Clio would say you can make the data look any way you want and say it isnt relevant to the subject even though he asked for the data then Dan would chime in with some racial hate sppeech and Bob would add his political views so that Spinoza and Muimiu will agree with Clio and interject their snootiness and uppity nose then HD will come back with another bankruptcy story making us depressed then Jon will argue with the listing realtor about the square footage then someone will mention oldtown and ChiChow will come back and post then Dan will still be on his racial views somebody will say Joe Zekas three times and we will get a link to a why i bought at cmk van buren then JMM will give a random econ 201 lecture Sabrina will delete bob and Dan then call Joey Z on his BS Clio will interject something about OB/hinsdale Anon will correct somebody on semantics the Qwner of the subject property will chime in nobody will even notice Groove will randomly talk about himself James will post a funny one liner CH will drop one too Icarus (you) will ask a valid question people will ignore and Westloopelo will post a loooooooonngggg story that no one will read and the tread will be dead
lol @ groove.
“lol @ groove.”
my bad for leaving you out russ. ill get ya on the rebound
impressive groove. if cribchatter gets in Wikipedia that would sum it up nicely for folk.
“impressive groove. if cribchatter gets in Wikipedia that would sum it up nicely for folk.”
this thread would sum it up nicely, 13 post and only 3 so far about the property listed and all 3 were just about the taxes.
“i thought the previous chatter about this place was how much a cop makes so HD could figure out the funny money calculation so Clio could promote buying any place no matter the price so then G and him could argue so then Anon could help point out Clio and his lack of comprehension then Clio would ask for data then G would post the data then Clio would say you can make the data look any way you want and say it isnt relevant to the subject even though he asked for the data then Dan would chime in with some racial hate sppeech and Bob would add his political views so that Spinoza and Muimiu will agree with Clio and interject their snootiness and uppity nose then HD will come back with another bankruptcy story making us depressed then Jon will argue with the listing realtor about the square footage then someone will mention oldtown and ChiChow will come back and post then Dan will still be on his racial views somebody will say Joe Zekas three times and we will get a link to a why i bought at cmk van buren then JMM will give a random econ 201 lecture Sabrina will delete bob and Dan then call Joey Z on his BS Clio will interject something about OB/hinsdale Anon will correct somebody on semantics the Qwner of the subject property will chime in nobody will even notice Groove will randomly talk about himself James will post a funny one liner CH will drop one too Icarus (you) will ask a valid question people will ignore and Westloopelo will post a loooooooonngggg story that no one will read and the tread will be dead”
LOL
groove did you write this segment in the Rules of Attraction script also?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7POJjKRzTh8
Also, that K’worth house JMM highlighted in teh prior sold for $650k, just over 50% off it’s 2004 prior sale of $1.31mm.
“HD, you do realize that according to the Mortgage Banker’s Assoc, the best performing loans in the market right now are VA loans… ”
Maybe barely better in new foreclosure starts but prime fixed loans still were performing better in overall delinquencies in Q3 by a good amount (5.17% compared to 7.44% for VA.) The Q4 MBA data should be out soon.
Regardless, the VA rates are still at historically elevated levels and a comparison to historical rates would be a better indicator of performance than comparison to crappy bubble loans.
VA loans were always the easiest to get for vets until the bubble. It was likely the drop in other loan standards that took the worse borrowers off of the VA’s hands and therefore “improved” their bubble era portfolio. The same for FHA. Simply put, there were easier loans to get than VA and FHA during the bubble.
yeah groove wtf!
“yeah groove wtf!”
my bad forgot you too. [please insert “sonies will complain about how tall and lanky he is” then russ will argue with G who’s fault the bubble was DZ will yammer on about bucktown/wicker schools then skeptic will brag about his street cred in avondale and the bike lanes to the loop then chitowngal will post something 5 days after the last post was made]
GROOVE I feel so left out, especially on a Beverly house!
I believe this property is on 104th PLACE. It is nice over there, a quick walk to the El, nice coffee shop, send the kids to St. Barnabas. There ya go.
Nice LOT! Man I wish I could pick up a lot that size on NW side. They hardly exist
“Nice LOT! Man I wish I could pick up a lot that size on NW side. They hardly exist”
lunker check old norwood, there is lot for sale i think is 50×300, and i think the whole nina ave is like 200 deep. also check north of peterson lots are wide there.
galewood also has many many 50 wide lots
or go to some south side areas and buy a whole block for like 100k
“GROOVE I feel so left out, especially on a Beverly house!”
please also insert “then Jason (ufo) will whine about not being included and some sarcastic joke about living uptown that nobody will laugh at because uptown does suck and that fact is not funny”
I think that they key here is that appropriately-priced properties in neighborhoods where people want to live are still going to sell at reasonable prices, no matter what naysayers say about the total collapse of the housing market and the return to the gold standard and whatever else you saw in Soldier of Fortune. I love going back to prior CCs to see who was right and who is obviously utterly full of it. One of the data guys should set up a simple web-based data entry for each person to enter an estimated sale price for each property, and we could have a more objective measure of who really gets it around here and who spends too much time commenting on too many blogs. Or Sabrina could set it up with CC without too much trouble – would be a great addition to this blog.
Also, for this property, I would expect that the historic district means that you can’t make additions to this place or do a tear-down. That is a colossal yard for the city.
“Appropriately priced” I guess means “sold price.” I don’t get involved with that because who cares what a knife catcher spends? There will be better deals tomorrow.
@Groove, LOL…I feel honored that I was mentioned given that I post a great deal less than you guys : )
BTW, for the record I have disagreed with Clio many times : )
“There will be better deals tomorrow.”
unlikely on this exact house, however…
LOL.
I think Uptown jokes are funny because I get the last laugh!! 😉
““There will be better deals tomorrow.”
unlikely on this exact house, however…”
LOL
was up sonies? you have been poking the bears lately? get in a tiff at work or fight with wife and now egging on the cc’ers to vent some of the pent up arguing?
“LOL.
I think Uptown jokes are funny because I get the last laugh!!”
IDK Jason i really think all of us here that dont live in uptown get the last and best laugh 😉
ps i kid, i kid, its all love
😉
“”Appropriately priced”” I guess means “sold price.””
Well, the fact that it was sold at that price means that a transaction was made at that price. That is part of defining the market and thinking about a concept like “market value” or actual value. When I say appropriately-priced, I mean “priced at a level reasonably likely to result in a sale at a price reflective of current market conditions, demand for the property and condition of the property”. The facts that it sold for closish to asking and was not and the market forever are pretty strong evidence that it was reasonably priced. A lot of the focus around here is on pointing out deficiencies, which is useful, but doesn’t really focus on what talking about the right market price is. I wouldn’t live there, but the real estate is there and it’s interesting and useful to try to determine where the market stands.
“I don’t get involved with that because who cares what a knife catcher spends? There will be better deals tomorrow.”
To me, this kind of says that you won’t put your money where your mouth is on certain properties – you’ve got general ideas about the state of some broader market but aren’t comfortable applying it in any practical way, or maybe you just aren’t familiar with this particular portion of the market. Those are both fine – I didn’t make a prediction about this place and frankly I don’t know anything about Beverly. I’m just saying that, if one can’t make predictions about real estate sufficiently specific that they are capable of being confirmed in some objective way, then it doesn’t really matter how many off-the-wall predictions and non-sequiturs you throw around.
So, what’s your prediction?
nah, just bored hearing the lame crap over and over… And I can’t drink at work! Also February always sucks and brings out the worst in everyone, I think it has something to do with lack of sunshine
oh yeah and the Illini basketball team blows… thank god the Bulls are good
“thank god the Bulls are good”
you didnt see the golden state game? man noah need to get back soon. BTW i havent worn my illini hat in two years. hoodie is only worn for snow shoveling and covered by a jacket at all times.
you still tossing the crush a few bucks each year?
I watch almost every Bulls game! Another benefit of not having kids and living close to work, I can stay up real late and watch the west coast trip games.
I’m not much of a charity type but I do go to one football or basketball game a year. I went to the OSU game a few weeks ago, what a dissapointment 🙁
@JJJ time to review a rule of CC:
If a property sits on the market for a long time, experiences several price drops and then sells, it was priced too high for the market.
If a property sells relatively quickly for near list price, it was purchased by a knifecatcher. usually a single, gay knifecatcher who had to relocate quickly from NY and is unfamiliar with the area.
🙂
“I watch almost every Bulls game! Another benefit of not having kids and living close to work”
i get to watch the games too, little guy yells go bulls at odd times so i get extra entertainment.
“I’m not much of a charity type but I do go to one football or basketball game a year.”
i stop going over 3 years ago not worth the price travel and hotel anymore. I still have like 10 IMPE towels i use for the gym 🙂 and i throw crush and the “chief” dollars every year.
“So, what’s your prediction?”
I already made it. There will be better deals tomorrow.
I hope there are better deals tomorrow; if not, it’s going to be a long cold winter.
“I hope there are better deals tomorrow; if not, it’s going to be a long cold winter.”
Even if there are better deals tomorrow, it will have been a long cold winter. One has little to do with the other.
“I already made it. There will be better deals tomorrow.”
Laughably imprecise and subjective, so you seem to be conceding you don’t really have any valuable advice to offer. Your beliefs inform your rhetoric, and neither is useful to anyone else.
The winter is even colder if you’re involved in the RE industry and filing bankruptcy, like I did for a former broker last week. Brokers thrive on volume, not pricing, and they’re waiting for volume to return. And the only way they’ll get it is through lower pricing.
“#anon (tfo) on February 9th, 2011 at 2:25 pm
“I hope there are better deals tomorrow; if not, it’s going to be a long cold winter.”
Even if there are better deals tomorrow, it will have been a long cold winter. One has little to do with the other.”
“The winter is even colder if you’re involved in the RE industry and filing bankruptcy”
I don’t see how that has any effect on what has been–by one measure–the coldest winter in Chicago history so far.
It’s an expression anon(tfo), I don’t mean it literally!
“the coldest winter in Chicago history so far.”
My gas bills have been extra reasonable.
“Laughably imprecise and subjective, so you seem to be conceding you don’t really have any valuable advice to offer. Your beliefs inform your rhetoric, and neither is useful to anyone else.”
It’s been pretty valuable advice over the last 3+ years I’ve offered it here. Pretty specific, too. Useful to anyone else? Who knows except you, apparently?
really it is the coldest in history?
I guess I don’t care anymore since I quit smoking a few years ago, and can just stay inside 24/7, and use the bus/train tracker to limit my exposure to sucky cold as much as possible
“really it is the coldest in history?”
As I said, by one measure–fewest days with a high above freezing since December 1 (start of meteorological winter).
thats crazy (3 days?), and it has been way warmer (at least +5 degrees) close to the lake
another reason the burbs suck!
avg 5 degrees below normal so about 85th percentile for a Chicago winter nat. gas prices have been lower than in previous years.
““the coldest winter in Chicago history so far.”
My gas bills have been extra reasonable.””
thats crazy (3 days?), and it has been way warmer (at least +5 degrees) close to the lake
But only east of Halsted. Sometimes only east of Clark.
nice madeline!
yes the poors know nothing of this warmth
“yes the poors know nothing of this warmth”
please sir may you spare some warmth [said in a bad british accent while imitating walking with a limp]
oh and just to add to you bastardz and your walkability. HOW HAS THAT BEEN GOING FOR YOU THIS MONTH?
i shall now laugh as i go to the window and remote start my car for my commute home and i shall be stopping at the brick yard jewel for a few things and not walking there either.
so nah nah nahna boo boo :)-
how was shoveling all that snow just to get your stupid car moving? 🙂
“It’s been pretty valuable advice over the last 3+ years I’ve offered it here. Pretty specific, too. Useful to anyone else? Who knows except you, apparently?”
That’s not a prediction, that’s a schtick. Is your current schtick/prediction “don’t buy anything, ever, until I tell you to, there’s a likelihood the same thing will be cheaper in the future” going to end at some point, and are you going to tell us when people actually should buy?
Otherwise it’s like advice never to buy a computer, because computers will always be cheaper and better in the future. It ignores the value of owning the asset.
It was and still is a prediction. Up until now it has been factual. Of course, the schtick will end at the bottom, which won’t be hard to miss. For some of us, anyway.
…”Up until now it has been factual”
G- so you agree that now it is no longer factual…..
“G- so you agree that now it is no longer factual…..”
I’m seeing no evidence of stabilization yet in Chicago with prices. If anything, the price declines are accelerating but we’ll see this spring.
There was just data out today that said Chicago prices fell 11.5% in the last year (not sure if that is for the city only or the city and the metro area.)
So if you bought a year ago and used an FHA loan with 3.5% down, you are already significantly underwater.
Where’s Bob? He had plenty to say about this house before,it would be interesting to hear his comments about the sale price.
“how was shoveling all that snow just to get your stupid car moving? :)”
well to be honest i ended up catching a wicked cold and was laid out on the couch for a week.
but i did drive in a warm car to the doctors office.
and when wifey needed some veggies for the soup to make be better, she drove in a nice toasty car.
so raspberries to you.
“There was just data out today that said Chicago prices fell 11.5% in the last year (not sure if that is for the city only or the city and the metro area.)
So if you bought a year ago and used an FHA loan with 3.5% down, you are already significantly underwater.”
Sabrina, you DO understand that these are AVERAGES that are published and do not at all apply to every single house out there? (Just as, in the bubble, the average 10-20% increase in sales prices didn’t at all apply to all properties). I am beginning to think that all of the talk about which schools are best IS very important so that people/children can understand these simple concepts. To post what you did is not only irresponsible, but is just plain wrong and definitely can be characterized by fear-mongering.
“Nice LOT! Man I wish I could pick up a lot that size on NW side. They hardly exist”
lunker check old norwood, there is lot for sale i think is 50×300, and i think the whole nina ave is like 200 deep. also check north of peterson lots are wide there.
galewood also has many many 50 wide lots
or go to some south side areas and buy a whole block for like 100k
Yeah I looked at that lot on Nina and it is almost too big. Big PITA bringing in groceries from the back yard etc from the garage. I don’t think it is curb cut.
“Yeah I looked at that lot on Nina and it is almost too big. Big PITA bringing in groceries from the back yard etc from the garage. I don’t think it is curb cut.”
next time your down that street notice the “gravel” spots in front of the houses there. i think most owners park in those “created” spots.
did you see how the electic poles go though the back yards there and not the alleys? i always wondered why?
“I’m seeing no evidence of stabilization yet in Chicago with prices. If anything, the price declines are accelerating but we’ll see this spring.”
I think that we look at different segments of the market. In the segment I follow I have seen stabilization. When you say acceleration in decline, do you mean that the volume of sales will go up and they will be at lower prices, or that the prices will be even lower but the volumes will remain low in comparison to historical sales? Either way, I disagree with you. I think that we are and will see a stabilization of prices and an increase in the number of transactions that will lead to either only slight additional decreases or increases in inflation-adjusted pricing as set forth in the indices. I think that we will see this activity in the first two quarters of 2011, and I think that we will first have good data on these issues in early summer of 2011 (do to the
“There was just data out today that said Chicago prices fell 11.5% in the last year (not sure if that is for the city only or the city and the metro area.)”
You can find out exactly what it refers to by looking at this in more depth. I’m not going to look it up, but I expect that either this is a blended SFH and condo number, or maybe just a condo number. The data released at the end of January (for November 2010) has SFH down 7.6% YOY, at levels equal to Spring 2002. However, it’s basically flat since March 2010.
“So if you bought a year ago and used an FHA loan with 3.5% down, you are already significantly underwater.”
Fair enough, but practically that’s always the case when you buy with a margin of equity that won’t support sales commission and closing costs. It’s also why people shouldn’t rely in any way on future events (like appreciation or interest rates staying low) to be able to afford real estate.
JJJ are you calling the bottom? It’s not quite clear whether your definition of stabilization includes the proverbial ‘bottom’.
Regardless, you can have your opinion, and the CS Chicago index, which is more or less at the March 2009 lows, is going lower, probably much lower.
Volume will remain low, but will increase as further price declines become evident.
Groove77 on February 10th, 2011 at 9:50 am
“Yeah I looked at that lot on Nina and it is almost too big. Big PITA bringing in groceries from the back yard etc from the garage. I don’t think it is curb cut.”
next time your down that street notice the “gravel” spots in front of the houses there. i think most owners park in those “created” spots.
did you see how the electic poles go though the back yards there and not the alleys? i always wondered why?
Probably because the lots are 300ft deep. They need additional poles to support the wires from the alley to the house. Its a great lot but deserves a mcmansion to put on it. Also its over a flight path into O’hare.
The planes there are not that bad, when you live in eddison park then a stay low flyer in the summer will have you turning up the volume for 30 seconds.
i wonder if one could build a driveway from the ALLEY to a inset garage 175ft from the alley?
or could one build a underground passage from the garage to the basement?
or buy a “hover round” or four wheeler to drive back and forth to the garage.
maybe a zip line.
ok i gotta stop i am getting slap happy. time to roll
“JJJ are you calling the bottom? It’s not quite clear whether your definition of stabilization includes the proverbial ‘bottom’.
Regardless, you can have your opinion, and the CS Chicago index, which is more or less at the March 2009 lows, is going lower, probably much lower.
Volume will remain low, but will increase as further price declines become evident.”
Absolutely. If you want to tie me to the C-S SFH index for Chicago, I’ll say the numbers for January 2011 will reflect pricing at or above the eventual bottom of the current cycle. If I were going to fudge I’d say give me a number well within residential real estate transaction costs, so less than 5% above the eventual bottom.
homedelete, thanks for your prediction – I would be really surprised if we go “much lower” (which for me would mean at least 15%) but we’ll see!
JJJ:
I think another 15% down is not an unreasonable expectation for this round of price declines.
http://blog.lucidrealty.com/2010/01/31/chicago-case-shiller-index-for-condominiums-vs-houses/
Gary has been kind enough to chart the CS Condo and SFH index for us (but ignore the ‘trendline’ because he needs to start the trendline at the top heading down, not from the beginning of the chart to the present).
See the direction the index is heading the last few months? it’s heading back down.
The last year of price increases/stabilization was merely a bump in the road.
I believe the next ‘stabilization’ period will be around 100. Maybe I’m wrong, I don’t know, but that’s what it seems like to me.
Groove77 on February 10th, 2011 at 4:23 pm
The planes there are not that bad, when you live in eddison park then a stay low flyer in the summer will have you turning up the volume for 30 seconds.
i wonder if one could build a driveway from the ALLEY to a inset garage 175ft from the alley?
or could one build a underground passage from the garage to the basement?
or buy a “hover round” or four wheeler to drive back and forth to the garage.
maybe a zip line.
ok i gotta stop i am getting slap happy. time to roll
They go right over that Nina Lot.
You could put a drive way right from the alley to the house. I thought about that but can you imagine the cost of all that concrete or even blacktop?
“I thought about that but can you imagine the cost of all that concrete or even blacktop?”
which makes my, buy a 4wheeler idea even more cost effective.
I do wonder how much of a bribe you need to get the alderman to say yes to a curb cut?
i still say it would be easier just to park you cars in front on the street. (and even drive your car around to the alley to take out the garbage)
and come to think of it, since you have to build a house anyway what not just build a long/deep house, then the walk wont be so bad.
so what lot size would you rather have?
– 50×300
– 75×125
– 50×200
– 50×125
“so what lot size would you rather have?
– 50×300
– 75×125
– 50×200
– 50×125”
You could try to make them closer to equal in SF, man.
I’d rather have the 75×125 rather than the slightly larger 50×200, but 50×300 is 60% larger than the 75×125, and that’s too much to ignore. Maybe 100×125 v 50×300, and 75×125 v 50×200. I’d take the side buffer and extra light in each case.
“You could try to make them closer to equal in SF, man”
that would take the use of a calculator, it would be like me actually proofreading 🙂
I think the answer kind of depends on the house you imagine you would build.
I like smaller homes so i could be fine with the 50×125
but i would go for the 75×125 just to have that “breathing room” and light on all sides of the home.
well i could do a 50×200 on a corner lot and get the same effect, but i like the houses on each side as a sound buffer (and less to shovel)
50 x 200 would be more preferable to me. I see side yards as being wasted space anyway in the city.
75×150 would be high on the list too.
“I see side yards as being wasted space anyway in the city.”
i love side yards more the back yards as you get more sun for the flowers and yourself.
i would love a 15ft side yard on each side the light and breeze would make up for the extra property taxes.
Across the street from me is an entire block of 50×175 lots, with an alley too.