We Love Chicago’s Hidden Gems: 2600 W. Wilson in Ravenswood Gardens
A house like this 5-bedroom vintage bungalow at 2600 W. Wilson in the Ravenswood Gardens neighborhood of Lincoln Square is why I started Crib Chatter.
Built in 1920 on an oversized 45×120 lot, the listing says the interior was transformed bythe owner, an electrician and organist for the Balaban & Katz Theater Company, in 1926.
There is extensive plaster, wood moldings, stained glass and ironwork throughout the house.
I urge you to check out the wood carved ceiling in the living room.
Exposed beams grace the upstairs bedrooms.
There are also 3 fireplaces, including one in the master bedroom and one in the basement.
The basement is finished and is large enough to be a family room and game room area.
None of the bedrooms are in the basement, with 3 out of the 5 bedrooms are on the second floor with the other 2 on the main floor.
The kitchen is updated with modern cabinetry and stainless steel appliances, including what looks like a Viking stove.
It has central air and 4 car parking as well as a 1000 square foot flagstone terrace and a roof deck above the garage.
The house is located just 2 blocks from the Rockwell Crossing Brown Line stop and shops and just a few blocks from the Lincoln Square shops and restaurants.
Michael McCallum at Baird & Warner has the listing. See the pictures here.
2600 W. Wilson: 5 bedrooms, 5.5 baths, 6000 square feet, 4 car parking
- Sold in December 1993 for $280,000
- Currently listed for $1.25 million
- Taxes of $7091
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 16×16 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 14×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 16×10 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 12×10 (main floor)
- Bedroom #5: 14×14 (main floor)
- Laundry room: 12×12 (second floor)
- Family room: 23×12 (basement)
beautiful.i think our new mayor lives around here.
That was one of my favorite houses when I lived in that neighborhood, and the inside is even better than I thought it would be. Beautiful.
I saw this one pop up on Redfin just over the weekend; what a great place.
Great place for someone that has no interest in ever even joking about walking to the lake or park since you’re cut off by the actual hood, not the fake hood Clio is scared of.
You also need to take the Metra to the loop from here since the Brown Line is about an hour out in this part of town.
Why not just live in the burbs? It’s not like Lincoln Square is this super cultured, awesome place.
Super, super nice house. I just don’t see the appeal of living like this in this part of the city.
Chicagobull: At the risk that you truly want an answer on why to live in Lincoln Sq vs. a burb I’ll give you my opinion. I’d prefer to be here for a few reasons:
*because of walkability to the shops/restaurants on Lincoln.
*The neighborhood itself also has a decent amount of kid focus, and plenty of younger families in this general section of town.
*You aren’t walking to the lake down Lawrence or Wilson with a stroller, but you would hit up Welles Park.
*The CPS elementary schools are turning and you are close to a few strong private schools.
I weigh the lifestyle of Lincoln Sq. as comparable to Oak Park, perhaps Evanston but I haven’t spent as much time there. Finally, for me personally, I have a few friends who already live in the area and 3 or 4 more families starting to talk about leaving their condo (kids) for a place in Lincoln Sq. rather than leaving the city.
I get the “suburb within the city” appeal. I just don’t get why people live here without access to the lake. Personally, if I couldn’t walk to lake, I would not live in Chicago. I wouldn’t even consider it.
At some point in the very near future everyone is going to simultaneously figure out that without lake access, they are better off living in DenAustLand. There they can get an actual sort-of-cool city cheaper than they can live in Lincoln Square or North Center or most of the burbs.
These were working class communities for a hundred years for a reason.
Lots of yuppies live in Chicago without access to the Lake by walking. Bucktown and Wicker Park are perfect examples as is West Loop. These are all great areas.
Beautiful place. The rooms all look so big. Most people probably like big rooms. I wonder what the electrician did? It said it was renovated by an electrician? I didn’t see too many fancy lights or anything. Maybe I missed it. That’s a big jump in price since 1993. Wonder how they got that super deal back then. I think the ceilings are my favorite part, but the fireplaces are pretty sweet, too. Currently have a cathedral ceiling in my bedroom, and I’m not too sure about them.
chicagobull: Fair point – for your lifestyle, walking distance to the lake is important. For mine, I’d like that but don’t prioritize it. At this point it’s walking to shops/elementary school/mass transit/distance to loop. That’s what keeps me in the city. Lake front I’ll use but I’ll almost look suburban – needing to commute to it so limited to weekends.
As to simply moving to another state, can’t do for a variety of mainly employment reasons. I don’t discount your thoughts that others may pickup & move – friends who were already adult life transplants (and really outside of midwest) to Chicago seem more willing to investigate other states & cities.
“That’s a big jump in price since 1993. Wonder how they got that super deal back then.”
Why do you think it was a “deal” 18 years ago and before there was the biggest housing boom in history?
Also- this neighborhood saw among the largest appreciation in the city over the last decade. I can’t remember the exact number but wasn’t it something like 200% appreciation? Or was it more?
Wow, just timeless. Looks like most of the work could have been done in 1940 or yesterday. Homes like this in RVM/RVG don’t come on the market very often, so it’s tough to compare. I would not be surprised if it sells pretty quickly at pretty close to ask. I’ll have to look for comps after I get some coffee.
To me, the opinion of someone who looks at this place and complains that’s it not near the lake is like a monkey not understanding a blender. If you’re only used to eating bananas one way, the fact that other ways might be great and appealing to a lot of people just isn’t within their brain capacity.
This is not very close to Rahm’s house at all but is about a half mile (but across the river) from the Blagojeviches.
Oh snaps Groove just got a Real Estate Boner!!!!!
I shall forgive the wood paneling in the basement for the rest of the awesomeness this place has!
I would gladly pay 1.25mil on Tuesday for this place today, can i get a wha, what!
200% is about right. I cringe when I see frame houses that have nothing to recommend them listed for $500k. And that’s a home nowhere near the square.
The inside is beautiful but I don’t know if many people would want to live with it as it is. But that is a lot of space, inside and out, for being in the city.
And it makes me crazy that the taxes on this place are less than the $120k 3/2 new construction townhouse I looked at in Grayslake last week!
This house’s RE tax amount is yet another example of how unfair the Cook County tax assessments truly are and that the assessment process is broken (and/or thoroughly corrupt). Massive house on large lot in a fairly upscale Chicago neighborhood, $1.25 million asking price, a “Viking range” kitchen build-out, and the taxes are less than $8,000? Someone should send this listing to Barrios for an immediate tax assessment adjustment. This tax assessment is ridiculous.
Tax assessments in Wisconsin, for example, are based on market value, with ALL PROPERTIES re-adjusted annually by county-appointed appraisers to somewhat reflect market price fluctuations. At least in that assessors’ approach there is some semblance of fairness. In Wisconsin, you don’t find wide swings in assessed valuations amongst comparable properties as you do here in Cook (Crook) County.
As a over-taxxed tax-payer, this listing is disturbing. Barrios – do a better job.
I walk by this place every day, it’s beautiful from the outside and nice to finally see the inside.
(It’s exactly 45 minutes door to door on the brown line inbound, although I do take the metra home since I don’t want to spend the extra time going backwards around the loop)
Agree on the taxes. I pay $400 more a year in taxes than this owner and I have 3,700 less sq. feet, 2 less bedrooms, 2 less baths and 3 less parking spaces. And that’s after a successful appeal! Could there be a senior exemption on this one?
Also, re: chicago residency for upper-middle class families: HS admission letters were mailed to applicants two weeks ago. Competition was as fierce as ever, and many students weren’t admitted to their 1st/2nd/3rd choice CPS or private prep HSs. HS admissions has become a high-stakes game for many white-collar Chicago families, and reason for belated move to upscale suburbs.
A dual-income white-collar family may buy this $1.25 million RWMR house, cobble together an acceptable preschool-grammar school strategy, and find themselves shut-out of acceptable HS choices. Blagovich’s daughter is commuting from RWMR to River Forest’s Trinity HS; a significant daily commute.
So far, we’ve determined that there are only 5 choices: Northside Prep, Walter Payton, Whitney Young, Jones Prep, and Lane Tech. Jones Prep is a long commute to the South Loop, nobody in the GZ seems to send their kids there, Lane Tech is deemed not quite acceptable to GZ yuppie parents, so there are really only 3 bona fide CPS choices, is this a correct analysis, Architect? What is the percentile on the entrance exam needed for a non-low income white-american to get into a quota spot for Northside, Payton and Whitney Young, can anyone with factual knowledge on this answer? thanks.
“Competition was as fierce as ever, and many students weren’t admitted to their 1st/2nd/3rd choice CPS or private prep HSs.”
Finding an accpetable k-12 plan in the CPS is nearly impossible. Unless you have another 10,000 a year to pay for a decade of private school before college. Now that the new reality of home ownership should be 10 plus years–it makes it very hard for young parents to make that dive. Would love to hear any stories of success of failure.
As much as this place is unique, I am not sure I would want to live here. Apparently I am the only one that this reminds them of the House on the Rock in Wisconsin….gimicky and a tourist attraction, not a place to live. And I love the whole lake access debate….2600 W is only about 3 miles from the lake….get off your butts and run there people….3 miles is nothing!
Not sure I like the interior, it switches from a turkish bath to a swiss shalet too often.
Awesome place.
Of course, my feelings as to location are no secret, so it wouldn’t work for me, even if I could afford it right now. But if and when I’m in the $1.25 million range, I’ll have the same geographic preferences. I’d opt for a smaller place (i.e., 4 beds and 3000 sq ft vs. 5 and 6000) in ELP, the northeast GC, OTT or ELV before buying something like this place. Otherwise, for $1.25, I’d just leave the city for something like the place in southeast Wilmette to which I linked last week.
As for transit, at over $1 million dollars, I’m not sitting on the el for 40+ minutes. North of Lakeview, I’d want to catch a Metra. I know a few people who have purchased $1 – $1.5 million dollar houses up in the Lincoln Square, OIP, etc. areas…all of whom drive to the loop.
Gorgeous. I would never think this was in Chicago based on the interior photos.
We have friends in Lincoln Square and are considering it too because of another baby on the way… we need more room for less $$ and don’t want to leave the city. Just don’t know about schools.
Architect, this is what taxes should be!
@jw, rahm’s house that he’ll move back into in July is on hermitage north of irving, by Lake View HS, not in Ravenswood Gardens.
Blago’s just across the river in Ravenswood Manor.
Good one Jason!! shows how well-trained we all are to accept unacceptable levels of taxation! The average American now pays more for taxes than he does for food, clothing, and housing combined. I’ve heard that comment bantered about.
blech! hideous place
Not much I like about this one. Sorry, its just really damn ugly in my opinion.
Thank you miumiu! I thought I was the only one who was confused and turned off by the interior. That foyer is crazy, I can’t imagine what people would think walking into the place…..
@Jason, I went to CPS from 1st grade to HS (skipped Kindergarden – might explain some things 😀 ) and I think I do okay. Managed to get a masters at DePaul and while I’m not rocking in the dough, I’m not living paycheck to paycheck. Although I did buy a 2/1 in 2003 that I cannot unload…so never mind. LOL
@Architect, you’re right on the assessment. I ASSuMEd it was a senior freeze keeping the taxes down. It’s not. This home is just ridiculously underassessed. estimated market value on the assessor’s website? 514,060
“beautiful.i think our new mayor lives around here.”
Rahm’s rental listing is still on the ‘net:
http://www.urbanrealestate.com/property/4228-N-Hermitage-CHICAGO-IL-60613-IBPLPCNSGWBES.html
As nonya sez, it’s not really near this house. It’s also closer to Ravenswood Elem tha Lake View HS. Hermitage b/t IPR and Montrose is v. nice, esp the west side of the street with big backyards.
I think you mean to say the new mayur “used to rent” around here
“And I love the whole lake access debate….2600 W is only about 3 miles from the lake….get off your butts and run there people….3 miles is nothing!”
That’s true, and certainly valid when training for a marathon. But when a particular day’s run is only, say, 6 miles, running on streets from 2600 W (some of which will be less than splendid) to the lake, only to look at it then turn around and run 3 miles back on streets, well, I don’t think I’m crazy to think that such a running route is not what most runners who buy million+ homes have in mind (I know, I know, everybody who buys one of these big, awesome places in the northwest of the city has a room in the basement with treadmills, flatscreens, etc. – wish I had that too, but for now, it’s lots of extra layers of warm clothing). Heading out and spending the vast majority of a 6 mile run in the park and on the lakefront trail is, in my (evidently minority) opinion the best option west of the Rockies.
“So far, we’ve determined that there are only 5 choices: Northside Prep, Walter Payton, Whitney Young, Jones Prep, and Lane Tech.”
I know i am the first to trash CPS schools, But there are more choices than just that.
if people would really check outside the bubble the think in you will find that although they have slipped a bit, Von Steuben and Kenwood (maybe Taft too) are on par with some coveted burban HS like evanston townshp HS and OakPark/RiverForset HS ever declining spiral downward.
People would be surprised how well steinmentz honors program does.
annony…you make some good points…although I have never and never plan to run a marathon so no training here! =) I will also say that it is likely a pain to take the family to the lake without it being walking distance. Although I have heard a lot of families mention that if you get a membership at the LP Zoo you can park at discounted prices in their parking lot. True, you would have to drive there which is always a pain – but thats part of city living, it is a pain to drive anywhere! But…the lake being 3 miles away is still likely closer than the grocery store, school, entrance to the subdivision for those living in the burbs.
This house is definitely not for everyone, but to the right buyer, I think this house is a very good value. If I was an antique dealer or large art collector I would be all over this.
It needs a little work here and there, minor updating, while still keeping all that vintage work.
Nice find for CC to discuss.
An exceptional student who is white, female, and GZ resident needs to be in “99.5% percentile” of application criteria to gain admission at Northside Prep. At white GZ male probably needs a “98% percentile”, based on this year’s yield. The competition is ridiculous, unless you’ve strong political clout.
Also, Suntimes has a very interesting article today on Daley’s nephew Vanecko, implying that he’s guilty of a 2004 manslaughter, at least his second involvement in a brutal battery.
Dream home
Groove, there aren’t enough quality HS spots for all the “A” students residing presently in Chicago. Von Steuben’s honors program still requires your child to be an excellent student to gain admission to the program. Where do you send your “B” or “B+” student if you live in Chicago?
Also heard that Ignatius had a bumper-crop of applicants this year, with many disappointed parents, including “legacy applicant” parents. St Pats, Gordon Tech, Brother Rice, etc aren’t of same caliber as CPS elite HS or Ignatius/Loyola.
Groove77,
You are right to mention that Suburan schools are increasingly faced with the same issues that bring down CPS school numbers.
“That foyer is crazy, I can’t imagine what people would think walking into the place”
that is the reason i think this place is awesome. how great is it to be greeted into this foyer and not be overwhelmed with emotion (good or bad).
and as much blandness we see over and over with yuppy places on CC, this place should be commended for its awesomenessity!!!!
Hey PJC, can’t you take the purple and switch at Fullerton or Belmont?
I will commend this place in all its polish consulateness, seriously ugly, wtf groove!
There are some scary stats going around on cpsobsessed.com right now regarding high school acceptance. One B in 7th grade is enough to lose you your place in a top school if you live in Tier 4. Also scary – at least half of Chicago’s white kids don’t attend CPS schools.
“Groove, there aren’t enough quality HS spots for all the “A” students residing presently in Chicago. Von Steuben’s honors program still requires your child to be an excellent student to gain admission to the program. Where do you send your “B” or “B+” student if you live in Chicago?
Also heard that Ignatius had a bumper-crop of applicants this year, with many disappointed parents, including “legacy applicant” parents. St Pats, Gordon Tech, Brother Rice, etc aren’t of same caliber as CPS elite HS or Ignatius/Loyola.”
Agreed there are not enough spots for *qualified top notch CPS HS students.
and private schools such as Notre Dame for boys, St. Pats, St bens, Fenwick, loyola Ect. i never felt or heard from student or parents are equivalent of a northside prep.
now i havent heard the legacy kids are not getting spots, if thats the case i may need to reevaluate my stance
I love vintage in general, but this place is way too goth and busy for me. The tile work is something else, and not really in a good way.
@Dan – You’re wrong about GZers not sending their kids to Jones or Lane. These have become in the last 2-3 years completely acceptable and desired options. The admissions criteria to get into Jones this year surpassed that of Whitney Young for the first time this year (for first round offers). If your child lives in Tier 4 (the highest SE tier), to get an offer in the first round to any of the top four selective enrollment HS, he/she needs all As in 7th grade, plus a 95th percentile score on math and language arts ISATs as well as the HS entrance exam.
@Jason — I know many who have followed the successfull K-12 CPS strategy of Lincoln elementary and Lincoln Park High School, and others are currently following the same strategy in Alcott district.
Groove! “not be overwhelmed with emotion (good or bad)” That foyer does lead me to be overwhelmed ….with negativity and a scramble to my pockets as I realize I haven’t brought a roll of quarters to play all the fun machines that must be hiding in this place… especially the one that will smush a penny with an inprint of the house in it! =) Just not my type of house I suppose…definitely some great details and some attention to detail but too much of it for my tastes.
“Lane Tech is deemed not quite acceptable to GZ yuppie parents”
According to whom? GZ yuppies without kids or with pre-school aged kids?
Arch: “St Pats, Gordon Tech, Brother Rice, etc aren’t of same caliber as CPS elite HS or Ignatius/Loyola.”
This is true, but what is the count of ‘burban HS that are of the same caliber as Young/Payton/Northside + Loyola/Ignatius? 6? 10?
“and private schools such as Notre Dame for boys, St. Pats, St bens, Fenwick, loyola Ect. i never felt or heard from student or parents are equivalent of a northside prep.”
Um, Groove: What schools, period, are the equivalent of NSCP? City or suburban. That’s just not apples/oranges, it’s apples/tuna.
At asking price, this place stands to have appreciated about $4500 a month, every month, for 18 years.
Bubble, what bubble?
Schools: That’s why when faced with the choice many parents will opt for the suburbs. It is just a fact of life and it is a problem with ‘city living’. The schooling infrastructure deteriorated decades ago and it takes a long time and effort for decent schooling to return.
It’s strongly considering my choice of where to reside. DO I want to live in Bucktown or Wicker Park or Irving Park? Yes, I would love to. But a SFH is still outlandishly expensive, and there is lots of competition for the SFH and schooling choices are limited. Moreover, you will pay absurd taxes AND pay for private school. A move to suburbs solves the commuting issues (Metra), schooling issue (public), and tax issue (roughly same taxes). I’d rather not be car dependent for everything but there are trade offs in life. YOu can’t have everything, at least not for less than a million dollars!
Thanks for the info Michelle. The 99.5% percentile mentioned seemed a little high, and I didn’t think percentiles when into decimals. But still, what happens to the B+ students at the 80th percentile?
Jason: it’s amazing to me that people still put up with liberalism and all its anti-white trappings. People vote for Obama, Durbin, Rahm, etc. and don’t voice any opposition to being in a “sanctuary city”, acknowledge that diversity immigrants have lower IQs and different cultural norms, etc. and they deserve to have hard times with finding schools or then have to pay money for private ones. Suburban schools aren’t what they once were, that’s for sure.
“You are right to mention that Suburan schools are increasingly faced with the same issues that bring down CPS school numbers.”
“If your child lives in Tier 4 (the highest SE tier), to get an offer in the first round to any of the top four selective enrollment HS, he/she needs all As in 7th grade, plus a 95th percentile score on math and language arts ISATs as well as the HS entrance exam.”
OH THAT’S ALL IT TAKES?? I THOUGHT IT WAS DIFFICULT TO GET INTO A GOOD CPS SCHOOL!!!!!
“@Jason — I know many who have followed the successfull K-12 CPS strategy of Lincoln elementary and Lincoln Park High School, and others are currently following the same strategy in Alcott district.”
UH…….how many people is that out of a city of 2.6 million? What about the rest of us?
What if my children are B+ students?
“I love vintage in general, but this place is way too goth and busy for me. The tile work is something else, and not really in a good way.”
I don’t think of it as gothic, at all, but the tile choices just *kill* it for me. Hate, hate, hate the tile, especially the variety.
It does have a nice, overall, Bavarian vibe. But I don’t really want to live in a beer hall.
Also, note that there is so close to no yard that I’d want to plant or pave over the little bit of remaining grass to not have to deal with any at all.
It doesn’t solve everything, esp, if one has read charlotte iserbyt’s book about public school curricula. It’s nuts, who has time to solve the first set of probs HD outlines, and then have to battle with public school indoctrination of cultural marxism?
“A move to suburbs solves the commuting issues (Metra), schooling issue (public), and tax issue (roughly same taxes).”
“Where do you send your “B” or “B+” student if you live in Chicago?”
sorry forgot to answer this question, its a tough one but a *good kid thats a B student you can send him to any CPS school and he will be fine and go to college, and that B student if he goes to a say Prosser of Forman will be an Honors A student there and may look better to a college admin board to pull from a subpar CPS school.
Its the C students that i would worry mass about in CPS and would shovel into private, New trier, adai stevey, glenbrook north south east or west.
There are good and bad elements within every high school. My high school was considered the ‘gang school’ in my district and it was over 25% minority; however, roughly 1/4 of my class went to big 10 schools (UofI/Iowa/WI) or better and many others went to selective or state schools. Probably a 25% or 30% were never college bound in the first place. So sure, send your kid to the ‘best’ school and it’s just a pressure cooker or send them to a ‘good’ school and they’ll still make out just fine. If your kid ends up hanging out with the burnouts at New Trier or Barrington there is a good chance they may not make it through college anyways.
What about the honors programs at the regular, non-selective, CPS high schools? Do GZ parents send their kids to these???? Doesn’t Lake View HS have this?
Dan, why don’t you just move to Maine
and leave the rest of us alone?
The school system is so complicated in this country. I think my child will end up a bum given how clueless my husband and I are…hehe
@Dan “But still, what happens to the B+ students at the 80th percentile?”
Currently, they go to Lane Tech (takes 1000+ students each year), LPHS has two programs open for application citywide and 400 spots for that, Von Steuben Scholars program.
There are IB programs at many neighborhood high schools, but I only know of GZ kids at the Taft IB program. Many/most nabe HS have AP or honors track programs, including Lake View, Amundsen, Mather, but currently they are not attracting GZers.
“that B student if he goes to a say Prosser of Forman will be an Honors A student there and may look better to a college admin board to pull from a subpar CPS school”
If the kid just *nails it* at a non-“competitive” CPS HS, and gets the best teachers to write great recommendations and does well on SAT/ACT (this is the wild card; if the kid is a great test taker, likely would have gotten into Lane, as *all* Bs + great test scores is automatic Lane, 1st round*), that kid is *going* to have tons of college options. TONS.
*Note, the score cutoffs available now are just for first round offers. MANY of the kids who get offers will go to different schools–private, suburban, etc.–and the final cutoff numbers *will* be lower (ok, maybe not NSCP and Payton, but everywhere else).
“with negativity and a scramble to my pockets as I realize I haven’t brought a roll of quarters to play all the fun machines that must be hiding in this place… especially the one that will smush a penny with an inprint of the house in it! =)”
Classic, I loved the imagery in your post 🙂
this is place is an acquired taste, some my hate it some may love it. some may see the irony in it and decide to where skinny black jeans everyday because of it.
my personal preference is i would rather live here than half the blandness in LP and Lakeview showcased on Cribchatter.
and Sonies,
I know you hate this place but please oh please dont tell me your the type of people who think its funky and cool to paint a room red for a splash of color. RED IS NOT A WALL COLOR PLEASE MAKE THAT YUPPIE TREND STOP!!!
LOL Groove
We have to paint the walls we are given in our lofts 🙂
And I think Dan would be a better fit in far Southern Indiana
“There are IB programs at many neighborhood high schools, but I only know of GZ kids at the Taft IB program. Many/most nabe HS have AP or honors track programs, including Lake View, Amundsen, Mather, but currently they are not attracting GZers.”
2.
But there is a meaningful push on to make LV a viable alternative in the near future (like next year/year after) and some non-fantasy expectation of critical mass at Amundsen and Mather coming soon-ish.
Suffice to say, there is reason to be optimistic about the future of northside, east of the river CPS HS options if your kids are not currently 10+. Not stupid, pollyanna optimistic, but hopeful optimistic.
Balaban & Katz developed many of the great old theaters (movie palaces) in the Chicago area. Rapp and Rapp were the architects. Balaban & Katz were also very instrumental in the movie biz, working with Paramount. Here is a list of their theaters I swiped from wikipedia:
North side: Belmont,Century/Diversey Theatre, Cine, Covent, Granada, Howard, Lakeside, Northshore, Nortown, Pantheon, Riviera and Uptown.
Northwest side: Admiral, Alba, Belpark, Biltmore, Congress, Crystal, Drake, Gateway Theatre, Harding, Luna, Portage, Terminal, and Will Rogers.
South, Maryland, Regal, Southtown, Tivoli, and Tower.
West: Central Park, Iris, Manor, Marbro, Paradise, Senate, and State.
Loop: Apollo, Chicago, Garrick, Oriental, Roosevelt, State-Lake, and United Artists.
Suburban Chicago: Berwyn, Coronet, La Grange, Park, Valencia, and Varsity.
Waukegan: Academy
“a better fit in far Southern Indiana”
aka, far northern Mississippi.
“Um, Groove: What schools, period, are the equivalent of NSCP? City or suburban. That’s just not apples/oranges, it’s apples/tuna.”
Anon, yes the private schools i mentioned are not = to NS prep and some IMO are not even on par with some regular CPS.
and thats were my psot was going was that these private have never been a replacement for a NS Prep more as a replacement for a Lakeview/Taft/kelvin park/ect.
I don’t think we should give up on our city, some of us have generational history here and aren’t weak idiots that acquiesce or self-segregate to suburban places like Deerfield, HP and Northbrook. We’ve gone from a tough city — to one ruled by a ballerina from Sarah Lawrence college! If I left, I’m thinking more like Switzerland or the Northern Italian Alps.
“And I think Dan would be a better fit in far Southern Indiana”
West Virginia. Or south of I-80.
Good to hear, now that’s fighting for civilization. Make the hordes and gangs, the parents who are drop-outs themselves & have the bastard kids constantly, let move out of our great city and not vice-versa.
“Suffice to say, there is reason to be optimistic about the future of northside, east of the river CPS HS options if your kids are not currently 10+. Not stupid, pollyanna optimistic, but hopeful optimistic.”
“Anon, yes the private schools i mentioned are not = to NS prep and some IMO are not even on par with some regular CPS.
and thats were my psot was going was that these private have never been a replacement for a NS Prep more as a replacement for a Lakeview/Taft/kelvin park/ect.”
Yeah, but my point is that, in the case of both NSCP and Payton, people lie about having a city address to try to get their kids in. So posing *any* school as an alternative to NSCP or Payton is kinda missing the point.
Question:
Do NY’rs bitch about Stuyvesant and Bronx Science and the unfairness of their marginally above-average kids not getting in like people in Chicago bitch about NSCP and Payton? Use the difficulty of getting into those two schools as an example of the overall failure of the system?
Isn’t the real failure the (perceived and real) lack of reasonable options for the kids that just miss the cutoff for Lane or Brooks? Don’t say “LPHS/Taft/whatever IB/Double H/whatever” because a meaningful number of *those* kids could have gone to Lane/Brooks/other if the school location better fit their home location. Focusing on how hard it is to get into NSCP is like focusing on Harvard and saying that the American university system doesn’t provide adequate options for kids who *just miss* getting into Harvard.
Note–yes, it is “unfair” to the kids who miss NSCP by one point (unfair in quotes, b/c that’s life–is it also unfair to lose in the Final Four by one point?).
Yes, it is *clearly* unfair that a kid who lives in Tier 1, but goes to Skinner (or wherever) can score **100** points lower than their classmate who lives in Tier 4 and still get into NSCP–there *SHOULD* (and, to me, MUST) be some adjustment to the tier system for gifted/classical school attendance–it is largely counter the “opportunity” intent of the tier system, and makes gaming the system *way, way, way* too easy for anyone with financial resources.
Since there’s rampant grade inflation in elementary school, and the ISAT standards are softened every year, I’d worry about that “B” GZ student who is placed at the local CPS HS honors program. Sure, it’s a cakewalk to a “B+ average”, but quality of that educational environment is still suspect.
And unless you’re an “under-represented minority student”, mid-range ACT/SAT scores, coupled with “B+” average, won’t get you into a 2nd-tier college or main campus state university. Hello Roosevelt, Northern Illinois, Columbia College, etc. Even Loyola and DePaul become “reach” colleges. Spend some time on “College Confidential” web-site checking your college enrollment targets for your children prior to determining your HS choice parameters for them. The college admissions competition is fierce, and preparation begins with high school choice.
Dan,
That may not happen any time soon– but the city should belong to the productive, you are correct there. However if half of the kids who now flee CPS went to CPS CPS would be dramatically better. I for one would not want my son or myself to feel like I had to get straight A’s or it would be doomsday. To me that would be worse than sending him to any public school north of Grand and West of Damen.
HS is a huge decision and I’m inline with anon (tfo)’s thought: given 10-15 years of policy & demographic changing at least one or two of the North Side area HS’s advanced tracks will be a strong option for a B student. If I luck out with an A student, I’ll have saved for private or aimed at the Selective Enrollment lottery if the honors tracks aren’t offering enough AP credit courses.
Which would be the same plan as if I lived in a west or north burb. Cheaper to enact in a burb in dollars, more expensive in terms of commuting time over those 10-15 years.
opps *east*
yeah Dan you at least don’t have to worry about those eyesore minarets in Switzerland…
“If the kid just *nails it* at a non-”competitive” CPS HS, and gets the best teachers to write great recommendations and does well on SAT/ACT (this is the wild card; if the kid is a great test taker, likely would have gotten into Lane, as *all* Bs + great test scores is automatic Lane, 1st round*), that kid is *going* to have tons of college options. TONS. ”
there are some kids where it doesnt *click in 7th grade and may miss the selective test boat then but goes all out at a HS school he crushes at. but that scenario is not well played out as it should
On some websites you can block individuals who spew hate. Can we have that option here?
You should be blocked for intolerance.
“There are two kinds of people I can’t stand. Those who are intolerant of other cultures, and the Dutch”
How’s it work for High School? Do the kids have to take tests to get into Payton, Lane, Whitney or Northside?
CPS is complicated in my opinion.
“there are some kids where it doesnt *click in 7th grade and may miss the selective test boat then but goes all out at a HS school he crushes at. but that scenario is not well played out as it should”
No doubt. And 7th grade is just a shite time for lots of kids. I don’t know how I would have done with that layer of stress at 13, as being 13 isn’t exactly the best year for lots of kids.
What are the gbn/gbs/stevenson/hersey/prospect/main south/oprf class schools in Chicago? I would be more than pleased if my kids went to main south. I don’t need north side prep or whitney young. A decent public school with honors and ap courses is good enough for me. That’s tough to find in chicago.
I agree with Indiana, especially South Bend for Dan. I think your European preferences are way too liberal for your viewpoint on life. I cannot see you at all fit in Italy. At least rural Swiss share your Xenophobia to some extent.
Sending children to different schools at the same time must be a pain for some of these parents. Now all we need is a comment from a parent who had one child accepted at selective enrollment, with another child that wasn’t. What then??
“How’s it work for High School? Do the kids have to take tests to get into Payton, Lane, Whitney or Northside?
CPS is complicated in my opinion.”
It’s definitely more complicated than moving to Winnetka.
Yes, the kids take one extra test. The scores are based on 7th grade classroom grades in 4 subjects, 7th grade ISAT test scores and the admissions test.
“You should be blocked for intolerance.”–Well played, for your comments were not hateful and based on nothing other than the actions of others.
Can’t you all just see all the GZ 2/2 dweller’s pressure cooker educated children heading off to college happy and adjusted? Lol.
Rather than putting your kid on a 12 year torture rack in this city just for a shot at going to Michigan State (where he’s probably going to be a C student booze hound at), wouldn’t you rather get your kid into school somewhere they will be comfortable at?
Putting crazy pressure on a kid in elementary and middle school is not a good thing as anyone who has ever roomed with averagely intelligent kids that attended selective boarding schools can attest to. They all snap at some point. It’s fun to watch if you’re at a frat house when it happens and there’s a crowd, not so fun if it’s just you and them. I’ve been in both situations, and both end with said child having to go home for an extended period of time.
If you have a gifted child (NOT BY YOUR STANDARDS) then by all means, push them, pile the work one, they’ll enjoy it. If you have an average child (which odds are, you do!) pushing them as hard as is required in this city just to get into a 2nd tier state school is going to ruin their life. Do you and the kid a favor and move to a nice quiet burb where they can be themselves and can get into Boulder or Arizona and at least be happy.
Don’t say no one ever warned you.
miumiu: Merkel, Sarkozi, and even Cameron have all RECENTLY publicly acknowledged that multiculturalism has failed. Europe has legitimate political parties, like Lega Nord in Italy that are more sensible than the US’ GOP. One day, they’ll see an even greater resurgence, as these things are cyclical. You really shouldn’t be lecturing someone like me who knows vastly more about the world than you do.
“I cannot see you at all fit in Italy. At least rural Swiss share your Xenophobia to some extent.”
As a CPS graduate who went to Northside and then ivy leagues, as did many of my friends from other CPS schools i think alot of folks here are way off. First off there are plenty of good HS beyond the Payton, Jones, and Northside.
I think the whole idea of escaping to the suburbs is ridiculous the reality is there are plenty of great schools in the city, and they are just getting better.
Also attendance rates plays a role in the CPS admissions
“Michigan State” really? i dont know one person in the entire CPS system who went to there….? Why would they?
They would be 1000 times likelier to go to UIC before there.
Go on, please… can you kindly elaborate?
“First off there are plenty of good HS beyond the Payton, Jones, and Northside.”
“Also attendance rates plays a role in the CPS admissions”
Not any more, except unofficially, and as it may effect classroom grades.
““Michigan State” really? i dont know one person in the entire CPS system who went to there….? Why would they?”
To hang with all the NT and other N.Shore HS grads who do go there.
gesc, CPS admits to the Ivies make up less than .01% of admits to those 8 colleges. Saying you know many CPS students that went to the Ivies is insanely laughable.
You don’t know anyone from CPS that went to MSU? Now I know you’re full of it.
LOL.
Do NY’rs bitch about Stuyvesant and Bronx Science and the unfairness of their marginally above-average kids not getting in like people in Chicago bitch about NSCP and Payton?
No, they don’t bitch. They just worry. And, then do the very best they can to prepare them and give them every advantage. And, hope for the best.
Lega Nord does not get more than 10% of the vote in Italy. Also while Bossi is quite deranged not every member of Lega Nord is as extreme. Also you cannot compare the legal immigration pattern in Europe with that of US. US constantly drains brains from across the globe. In fact, legal immigrants are among the most educated and the elite in this country and source of prosperity for it. Sarkozi is pathetic and hope he won’t be elected again. Merkel and Cameron are nowhere near your viewpoints on foreigners so don’t take their comments out of context.
“No doubt. And 7th grade is just a shite time for lots of kids. I don’t know how I would have done with that layer of stress at 13, as being 13 isn’t exactly the best year for lots of kids.”
amen brother!
I know for us as parents we will put pressure to do good and get good grade and have good attendance, plus we want a bit of competitiveness with grades too but, we are not going to put extra stress on a the kid as he will have enough just being a teen.
and given our genetics our kid should test well but will be the punk who will pull in C grades if not D grades.
so we will have have a back up plan for a the backup plan. you need to plan for options, cause in the end its all a crap shoot, schools may change, demographics may change, your kid may change, your neighborhood may change, your career may change, you may have one good kid and one WTF kid, you may end up with two great kids or two “groove’s”.
Dang it relax! its really not that serious,
Just do your best as a parent and give your self options and let the pieces fall as they may. ITS NOT A DEATH SENTENCE IF YOU DONT GET LITTLE JACOB AND SOFIA INTO NORTHSIDE PREP!!!
“As a over-taxxed tax-payer, this listing is disturbing. Barrios – do a better job.”
Architect, former assessor Houlihan is responsible for setting this property’s market value at $514,060. I think anyone could do the job better than Houlihan.
“No, they don’t bitch. They just worry. And, then do the very best they can to prepare them and give them every advantage. And, hope for the best.”
Thanks, Lisa. That was my impression based on folks I know who went to Stuy/Bronx Sci 20 years ago.
That attitude is one thing about NY’rs that I really wish Chicagoans would emulate.
But Miumiu, you don’t know nearly as much about the world, so you should just shut it. You must be Dutch.
groove, you are a dose of sanity in this insane world
Frankly I dont know why anyone from Illinois would go to Michigan State, what does it have to offer except seriously higher tuition than an Illinois school. I have friend that went to Ann Arbor but thats completely different.
The only people i know in chicago that went to michigan state, are people from Mich who went to school there and then moved to chicago. MSU has only 9% of it students who arent from Michigan, i dont know what on earth would cause you to believe these very few are from CPS schools.
miumiu: For chrissakes, here we are right now talking about how long-standing American citizens, most with GZ means, in one of our country’s most successful/worldly cities, cannot navigate an acceptable school process for their own offspring! You can rant on and use cheap hostile attack terms like xenophobia etc. but they aren’t taken seriously by thoughtful people.
The immigrants to the USA are not the world’s best & brightest, the overwhelming majority are penniless Third World castoffs their own governments are tired of paying to support. What are you smoking? For every Finnish scientist how many thousands of Third Worlders immigrate here? Come on…. Plus, right now there are more unemployed college grads, and science & tech workers with degrees/experience, etc. than there are even jobs for them. The idea that we need these H1-B visas for all this new talent is laughable, when we have plenty of highly-educated American unemployed talent already without jobs available for them to fill. LOL!
“US constantly drains brains from across the globe. In fact, legal immigrants are among the most educated and the elite in this country and source of prosperity for it.”
Far too many people view education as something they buy through a good school, or that they plan for through where they live. In my view, these people ignore the fact that education until high school is primarily a function of kids’ relationships with their parents and their parents’ attention to reading, writing, math and science in a non-school setting. My wife and I were both raised in small town settings where the schools were marginal, but we got where we did because of our parents’ involvement in our lives. It was tough when my mom had to teach me calculus in junior high because that wasn’t an option in the local junior high or high school, but it worked out fine. Today, we live in a great attendance area district, but I doubt that our kids will attend it because they will have better options available to them. Bluntly, if your kid can’t excel enough in CPS placement tests to get into great school, they don’t need to be in a great school and a good, safe one will be plenty good enough. Even education as high as high school should be focused on developing good skills and habits and being a productive member of society, not doing the absolute “best.”
I work with a lot of people whose kids are in the “great” public and private Chicago and North Shore high schools, and most of these kids are either (i) hopeless jagoffs whose lives are messed up through their own rebellion because their parents have pressured them to excel to get into Yale or Harvard only, they’ve failed and internally rejected everything they do as a failure and acted accordingly; or (ii) hopeless perfectionists who push themselves far too hard and don’t enjoy school or their lives because, while they’ve succeeded in getting into a great college, they’ve internalized their parents’ beliefs about success vis-a-vis school. A lot of the kids in (ii) end up doing poorly in college because their parents aren’t around to enforce this myopic world view.
chicagobull, first off im not sure what percentage of CPS students go to the ivies, or where you got the .01% number. My guess is that it would be closer to .1% of CPS students at somepoint end up getting a degree from an Ivy league school.
And i dont know why you think its laughable that i had many friends who went to the ivy’s at my school, it was probably closer to 5%. Perhaps some of them didnt go there straight from HS for undergrad but we ended up at one for grad school.
Even that sophmore at Harvard who just died went there straight from a CPS.
I remember i had friends from Northside, Payton, Von, Lincoln park IB who went to ivy league schools. To be honest I didnt know many people who went to Whitney or Lane, since no one from my Cps elementary school went to either of them.
I heard a stat from someone that the University of Chicago did a study and it showed that just 8% of freshmen who enroll in a Chicago Public School will graduate from college by the age of 25. I am sure there are all kinds of ways to spin this, and I haven’t been able to locate the survey to understand how that number was determined or when….but still…. eeks.
Rather than pumping billions at a problem that cannot be solved due to IQ restraints, we need an honest acknowledgment of where people really should be directed in life. There are some people who could never graduate college no matter what, and Obama does a disservice by telling every kid at CPS that they should be “expected to graduate college”, become a lawyer, etc. that their success is all a matter of ‘believing”. For many (not all), it’s a pipe dream. He also goes on to say that every kid can successfully Algebra by 8th grade. Ain’t gonna happen. All men are not created equal, sorry to say. It’s like Obama telling every kid at Deerfield HS that they can be a tall world-class athlete if they simply believe or if billions are pumped into training courses.
“I heard a stat from someone that the University of Chicago did a study and it showed that just 8% of freshmen who enroll in a Chicago Public School will graduate from college by the age of 25. “
“just 8% of freshmen who enroll in a Chicago Public School will graduate from college by the age of 25”
Wouldn’t be surprised if that’s pretty close for my HS, when I went, in a well-regarded school district. Somewhere b/t 1/4 and 1/3 dropout, less than 50% *started* 4-year degree programs (down to 30-35%). And it wouldn’t be a shock if only 1/3 finished their degrees in a remotely timely manner.
CPS has a long-term (11 year) graduation rate of a little over 50%. So, 1 in 6 CPS grads complete a 4-year degree looks a lot better, but still not good.
http://ccsr.uchicago.edu/news_citations/042106_chicagotribune.html
OF 100 CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOL FRESHMEN,
SIX WILL GET A COLLEGE DEGREE
By Jodi S. Cohen and Darnell Little, Tribune staff reporters. Tribune staff reporter Tracy Dell’Angela contributed to this report
Published April 21, 2006
Of every 100 freshmen entering a Chicago public high school, only about six will earn a bachelor’s degree by the time they’re in their mid-20s, according to a first-of-its-kind study released Thursday by the Consortium on Chicago School Research.
The prospects are even worse for African-American and Latino male freshmen, who only have about a 3 percent chance of obtaining a bachelor’s degree by the time they’re 25.
The study, which tracked Chicago high school students who graduated in 1998 and 1999, also found that making it to college doesn’t ensure success: Of the city public school students who went to a four-year college, only about 35 percent earned a bachelor’s degree within six years, compared with 64 percent nationally.
I just wanted to say thanks for everyone’s viewpoints on the schooling situation here; out of all our tangents this has to be one of the most relevant to real estate.
MAINE SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL – PARK RIDGE, IL
City: PARK RIDGE, IL
School type: HIGH SCHOOL
Grades: 9 10 11 12
Schools in district: 3
District: MAINE TOWNSHIP H S DIST 207
School Enrollment: 2367
White students: 93.4%
Black students: 0.0%
Hispanic students: 3.1%
Asian students: 3.1%
Native American students: 0.4%
Low income: 0.8%
Parental involvement: 98.5%
Attendance rate: 91.9%
Mobility rate: 3.7%
Chronic truants: 5
Chronic truants rate: 0.2%
Dropout rate: 0.3%
High School graduation rate: 94.6%
HS graduation rate for male students: 95.4%
HS graduation rate for female students: 93.7%
HS graduation rate for white students: 95.7%
HS graduation rate for Hispanic students: 73.9%
HS graduation rate for Asian students: 87.5%
HS graduation rate for Native American students: 100.0%
Average ACT composite score: 23.5
Average ACT English score: 23.0
Average ACT Math score: 24.1
Average ACT Reading score: 23.1
Average ACT Science score: 23.1
ACT test takers: 5
ACT % of school: 91.3%
Average class size HS: 21.5
Total number of teachers in district: 471
Teachers with bachelor’s degree: 23.2%
Teachers with master’s degree: 76.6%
Classes not taught by highly qualifed teachers: 0.0%
Male teachers: 45.7%
Female teachers: 54.3%
Teacher experience average: 12.6
Teacher/student ratio: 16.9
Statistics about MAINE SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL in PARK RIDGE, IL
Average teacher salary: $67,466
Average administration staff salary: $112,070
Dollars spent per student: $13,763
Operating expenditure for instruction: $44,120,395
Operating expenditure for supporting services: $37,780,801
Operating expenditure for administration: $2,995,495
Operating expenditure for other campus costs: $9,183,060
Limited English Proficient students: 0.1%
So what else is new Dan? Of course the rich educated nobles and professional in Germany, Italy and England stayed behind, and the poor descendants of former serfs and peasants hopped on a boat for the new world. Our city’s primary european population today of Irish / Polish were all poor castoffs that nobody at home wanted.
“The immigrants to the USA are not the world’s best & brightest, the overwhelming majority are penniless Third World castoffs their own governments are tired of paying to support. “
Feudalism existed in some of eastern europe and much of russian until around the time of WWI.
“Polish immigration to the United States occurred in three major waves:
Mary Romanowski’s with family – courtesy of Chris (Rdywenur) – a member of the Polish forum
The first wave of immigrants, arriving mainly from the late 1800s up to the WW I, were considered “za chlebem” (means “for bread”) immigrants. They came to America mainly from economical but also political and religious reasons. Many immigrants were illiterate and unskilled laborers in their own country. The majority came from South and Southeastern part of Poland (Carpathian and Tatra Mountains, Krakow and Rzeszow area). These areas were very poor and overpopulated until the beginnings of XX century when tourism industry started developing. This first and large group of immigrants is difficult to account for since they came from Poland when Poland did not exist as a separate country but was partitioned between Prussia, Russia and Austria. So they were registered as citizens of these countries rather than Poland.
“These immigrants took low-paying jobs and lived in crowded dwellings just to make a meager living.”(Ref. 1) Also many Jews from Eastern Europe came in this time. Among Jews very few were coming back to their country of origin much less than among Poles who sometimes came to America to earn some money and were ready to go back to their old country.
AKA Serfs and peasants.
http://culture.polishsite.us/articles/art41fr.htm
Wicker…. was that a sincere comment or not? Couldn’t tell!
“MAINE SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL – PARK RIDGE, IL”
So, you’re saying that native-english speaking, middle to upper middle class kids do better in school than a mishmash of 1st and 2d generation immigrants and poor kids with a smattering (under 25%) of native-english speaking, middle and upper middle families?
Are you going to post something about the wetness of water or the breathability of air next?
Onlooker: Sincere! These types of conversations are part of what I’m using to form a plan for where to move next, along with other forums and that all important and usually overvalued input: opinions from my peer circles.
It’s all about the price of housing.
I can spend $700k for a house in bucktown or I can spend $700k in Park Ridge AND get a great public school to go with it. It’s not quite a ‘no brainer’ if you have kids, but it’s close. There’s no way I’m playing the absurd and kafkaesque CPS enrollment scheme. Sure some people try to do the Lincoln elementary, LPHS route but come on, that route is absurdly expensive and is limited to a few hundred kids per year. I’d much rather pay for a better school in the ‘burbs.
“#anon (tfo) on February 28th, 2011 at 1:15 pm
“MAINE SOUTH HIGH SCHOOL – PARK RIDGE, IL”
So, you’re saying that native-english speaking, middle to upper middle class kids do better in school than a mishmash of 1st and 2d generation immigrants and poor kids with a smattering (under 25%) of native-english speaking, middle and upper middle families?
Are you going to post something about the wetness of water or the breathability of air next?”
“It’s all about the price of housing.
I can spend $700k for a house in bucktown or I can spend $700k in Park Ridge AND get a great public school to go with it. It’s not quite a ‘no brainer’ if you have kids, but it’s close. There’s no way I’m playing the absurd and kafkaesque CPS enrollment scheme. Sure some people try to do the Lincoln elementary, LPHS route but come on, that route is absurdly expensive and is limited to a few hundred kids per year. I’d much rather pay for a better school in the ‘burbs. ”
No, no, don’t get me wrong. That’s fair and understandable, but comparing a single ‘burban HS to the entire CPS system is just not reasonable–it’s not as if you (HD, as opposed to “one”, who might) would send your kids to Wells or Clemente, nor would you (HD, again) pull them out of Maine South for private, so it’s not really an apple to apples thing.
Those relying on CPS student achievement statistics need to consider both that the CPS population is largely minority urban poor and that even being minority urban poor does not mean that a person can’t excel in the right situation and with the right parent support.
HD-
I can spend $700k for a house in bucktown or I can spend $700k in Park Ridge AND get a great public school to go with it. It’s not quite a ‘no brainer’ if you have kids, but it’s close. There’s no way I’m playing the absurd and kafkaesque CPS enrollment scheme.
I can’t agree with you more on this…..I’m having a hard time coming to terms with the SFH prices in Bucktown/Wicker Park, espically when there’s really nice options in Wilmette, Hinsdale, & Park Ridge for the same prices. This CPS shell game scares me, I just had a co-worker who’s attendance area school is horrible win some type of lottery to get his kid into a better school. What happens if my kid doesn’t win that lottery? The alternitave is not acceptable.
gesc, I picked MSU as my example because it is roundly considered the worst Big Ten school and is the easiest to get into. Why would someone from Chicago go there? Because it’s a better and higher ranked school than UIC will ever be, because it’s a Big Ten school, because it’s close to Chicago, and because it’s easy to get into? Those good enough reasons?
I read this from Northside’s web page: “over a quarter of the senior class gains admission to the nation’s top universities.”
Now, I don’t know what Northside’s definition of “top universities” is, but I would guess that a school like MSU that falls on USNWR’s Tier 1 schools is probably on that list. More disturbing is that 75% of Northside students DO NOT go to top universities. So 75% of those pressure cooked kids end up where? Yikes! Like I said, send your kid somewhere they will be comfortable.
And as far as Ivy admissions, I worked in admissions when I was at UofC, I saw the nation wide admissions trends and performance of CPS students first hand. It wasn’t pretty.
From the Trib:
“The April 21, 2006 issue of the Chicago Tribune revealed a study released by the Consortium on Chicago School Research that stated that 6 of every 100 CPS freshmen would earn a bachelor’s degree by age 25.”
And you’re going to tell me that CPS is churning out Ivy grads?
Seriously, stop it.
HD: that’s not the real point, you’re pushing an egalitarian narrative. Can the new immigrants reach higher levels ever? In reality, compare the stats for 2nd-3rd generation Latinos with those of Poles or Irish. The latter assimilate completely, the former lag behind, don’t assimilate well, and even their so-called family values lag way behind Poles and Irish (i.e. higher illegitimacy, drop-out rates, lower income levels, crime, welfare rates, etc.) http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_4_hispanic_family_values.html
Here’s what a demographer at a TX university is saying:
“By 2040, only 20 percent of the state’s public school enrollment will be Anglo, he said. Last year, non-Hispanic white children made up 33.3 percent of the state’s 4.8 million public school enrollment.
Of the state’s 254 counties, 79 recorded declining population during the past 20 years. All are rural. An additional 30 Texas counties, he said, would have also lost population had they not experienced Hispanic growth.
The state’s future looks bleak assuming the current trend line does not change because education and income levels for Hispanics lag considerably behind Anglos, he said.
Unless the trend line changes, 30 percent of the state’s labor force will not have even a high school diploma by 2040, he said. And the average household income will be about $6,500 lower than it was in 2000. That figure is not inflation adjusted so it will be worse than what it sounds.”
“So what else is new? Of course the rich educated nobles and professional in Germany, Italy and England stayed behind, and the poor descendants of former serfs and peasants hopped on a boat for the new world. Our city’s primary european population today of Irish / Polish were all poor castoffs that nobody at home wanted.”
Chicagobull…. yeah im pretty sure Michigan state is not considered one of the top universities in their list. My guess is they are referring to top 20 schools. I remember something telling me that percentage wise Northside now puts more students into ivy leagues than new trier.
Now northside, as with the rest of CPS selective enrollment schools is a worlds apart, from many CPS HS, so i dont think its fair comparison. Nor is it really fair to compare them to Suburban schools since they can cherry pick the smartest students.
“groove, you are a dose of sanity in this insane world”
I do what i can with what i have, i think its more as i am so insane that it comes full circle and sounds sane it the world we live.
“I’m having a hard time coming to terms with the SFH prices in Bucktown/Wicker Park, espically when there’s really nice options in Wilmette, Hinsdale, & Park Ridge for the same prices. This CPS shell game scares me, I just had a co-worker who’s attendance area school is horrible win some type of lottery to get his kid into a better school. What happens if my kid doesn’t win that lottery? The alternitave is not acceptable.”
I have also noticed that, for the same prices, real estate in the suburbs tends to be bigger and nicer than a property priced the same on the North Side. I haven’t yet determined why this is. It’s almost as if individual participants in the market have acted to demonstrate that there is value to be derived from living in the City within walking distance of transit, nightlife and retail, and good access to Chicago business for work and cultural and sporting institutions, etc., with some sort of bizarre tradeoff offsetting the smaller sizes, finishes that aren’t as nice and poorer schools!
I’m kidding, but if you don’t think that the schools are good enough, or if you want bigger, or nicer, or don’t want to live near this, that or the other thing, or whatever, then vote with your dollars. If you’re having a hard time coming to terms with the way that the market values these properties and “what you can get for your money” you should allocate your available dollars appropriately and make a choice that is right for you. That sounds like it might be in the suburbs. That is fine, but just recognize that not everyone out there shares your exact view on things.
I’m not sure that it’s fair to say that CPS is a shell game. It’s an imperfect process for the allocation of finite educational spots and resources. It’s not going to make everyone perfectly happy.
JJJ: one perfectly logical reason why “real estate in the suburbs tends to be bigger and nicer than a property priced the same on the North Side” is because the bubble on the northside is still deflating while the bubble in the suburbs has popped.
gesc:
“My guess is they are referring to top 20 schools.”
C’mon. 250-ish grads? Are there *really* an average of over 3 at each of the top 20 schools (which, btw, would *not* include all 8 ivies)? Or are you one to say there are 50 schools in the top 20?
Here is a fun story for you parents out there;
I have a friend whose kid is pretty brainy the kid was being pushed by teachers and the kids parent to test into the CPS “brainy Junior High”, you know the Taft/Whitney/morgan/kenwwod 7th 8th grade thing.
well the kid didnt want to leave his/her friends before graduation so he/she purposely did bad on the test.
the kid caught a azz whooooping when they found out.
but it goes to show that parents should do the best they can, but in the end its sometimes can be the peers providing the guidance
It’s not just imperfect, it is abysmal, clout heavy and shameful. Which is why the system is the way it is, and will continue to remain this way. It’s taken 50 years for the CPS to revert to this pathetic situation and it won’t get fixed over night.
“I’m not sure that it’s fair to say that CPS is a shell game. It’s an imperfect process for the allocation of finite educational spots and resources. It’s not going to make everyone perfectly happy.”
“JJJ: one perfectly logical reason why “real estate in the suburbs tends to be bigger and nicer than a property priced the same on the North Side” is because the bubble on the northside is still deflating while the bubble in the suburbs has popped.”
HD: It was *in general* true before the bubble, too. Properties in the ‘burbs are bigger and “nicer” in general.
“It’s taken 50 years for the CPS to revert to this pathetic situation and it won’t get fixed over night. ”
Wait–when was CPS this “pathetic” in the past? It’s reverted to some awful historical state?
JJJ,
I hear you. I love the amentites the city offers, which is why I’ve lived downtown for the last 11 years. I’m really feeling that what’s best for me; bars, restaurants, & shops in walking distance is not what’s best for raising a family; schools, safety, place to ride a bike & yard to play in. I’d never schelp it out to Naperville or similar but the near suburbs are looking better everyday.
replace ‘revert’ into ‘degrade’ sorry
“replace ‘revert’ into ‘degrade’ sorry”
It was an honest question.
HD: you’re not listening: Unless demographics change, the CPS will always remain this way. The correlation and causal links are there. They’ve BEEN pumping money into it for 50 years, billions of dollars, and we have 2-3% of grads finishing college. It’s unbelievable that liberals and multi-cultists and open borders lobbyists don’t get it. Amazing.
That’s why GZ parents and taxpayer must demand their rights to operate their own local schools without racial quotas or their equivalents, which leads to worse schools. Voting in an Obama as President certainly ain’t going in the right direction, yet these GZ liberals still can’t understand what they do. It’s amazing.
“It’s not just imperfect, it is abysmal, clout heavy and shameful. Which is why the system is the way it is, and will continue to remain this way. It’s taken 50 years for the CPS to revert to this pathetic situation and it won’t get fixed over night.”
“one perfectly logical reason why “real estate in the suburbs tends to be bigger and nicer than a property priced the same on the North Side” is because the bubble on the northside is still deflating while the bubble in the suburbs has popped.”
HD, so, thought experiment here, you think that the normal state of the market, all underpricing and overpricing aside and assuming perfect pricing, is that there is no premium buyers place on living in the City? And that a property in Lincoln Square vs. the same property in Wilmette should be priced lower than the Wilmette property, since the Wilmette schools are much better?
(In other words, of course I agree that real estate prices are unique and move in different trends and “bubbles” (and of course treating RE pricing like a perfect and liquid market is a pipe dream anyway), but I can’t believe that you would not admit that buyers place a significant premium on being in the City.)
“I’d never schelp it out to Naperville or similar but the near suburbs are looking better everyday.”
If you work in the loop and have hours that allow using the express train, Naperville is about (I said *about*!) the same as Winnetka.
If you mean Evanston/OPRF/Maine South, that might be a reasonable compromise, but it’s a compromise.
Everything else “near” isn’t (imo) much different than the “good” CPS hoods, except that in some you automatically get an acceptable HS, rather than rolling the dice at acceptable or actually good, with a chance of needing to opt for private or move *then*.
Curious to know what anon (tfo)’s problem with the Dutch is.
David Cameron’s election campaign was backed by a newspaper that is most well know for the naked girls pictured on page 3. That’s all you need to know about the guy and his opinions.
Yes, at some point being in bars, or spending precious free time drinking or being hung-over, can look pretty silly to the kids, wife, etc. What is the upper age a married guy with kids should be when he stops frequenting bars? It’s pretty hard to be hip at 47 in a bar, no matter who you are.
” I’m really feeling that what’s best for me; bars, restaurants, & shops in walking distance is not what’s best for raising a family; schools, safety, place to ride a bike & yard to play in.”
“Curious to know what anon (tfo)’s problem with the Dutch is. ”
It was a quote from Austin Power’s father (played by Michael Caine) in the 3d Austin Power’s movie.
And apropos, I thought, of this exchange:
“On some websites you can block individuals who spew hate. Can we have that option here?”
“You should be blocked for intolerance.”
In other words, I have no problem with the Dutch.
Anon,
I’m only talking about Wilmette/Park Ridge/Hinsdale. I would only consider a move to the burbs for an excellent school system K-12 where I just show up and enroll my kids. No lottery, no tier system, no tests, no worry about one kid getting in and the other not, etc. If someone is willing/able to pay $700k for a home and the taxes associated with that I think the boundary school option should be acceptable without luck or games and espically without being at a disadvantage for being white and middle class.
“without being at a disadvantage for being white and middle class.”
That’s a misunderstanding of the CPS process. You would be at a disadvantage for having a home address in a census tract with mostly better educated, two-parent households with above-median income. The gaming of the system that this allows is more troublesome to me than the other aspects of it.
And that process is all but certain to change meaningfully (and possibly dramatically) before your (not yet?) toddler is choosing high schools.
“I’m only talking about Wilmette/Park Ridge/Hinsdale.”
PS: Again, totally fair, but (1) (at the risk of the OB/LF discussion) Hinsdale isn’t what I think of as “close”, (2) despite HD’s posting of Maine South, Maine South ain’t in the same league as NT or HC (and if moving to Hinsdale, but not in Central, really look into that first–not saying it would be the wrong decision, just make sure your eyes are open), (3) If you can buy walking distance to Metra in N’ville, and can/would take the express basically everyday, not that much different commute time than H’dale or NT.
“I’m only talking about Wilmette/Park Ridge/Hinsdale. I would only consider a move to the burbs for an excellent school system K-12 where I just show up and enroll my kids.”
Why would you exclude Glenview/Highland Park/Northbrook if your willing to go out to hinsdale?
That’s aka White. That’s how CPS discriminates against White families while saying their process isn’t race-based. It’s immoral and deceitful.
“… in a census tract with mostly better educated, two-parent households with above-median income.”
Why would you exclude Glenview/Highland Park/Northbrook if your willing to go out to hinsdale?
I should include Glenview on my list….it looks about the same (21 miles or so) as Hinsdale. Northbrook and Highland Park are too far and the Edens can be a nightmare. I think you can get downtown quicker from Hinsdale on I-55 than having to come down the Edens
how many CPS freshmen wind up in a gang or in jail or killed by the time they graduate?
(2) despite HD’s posting of Maine South, Maine South ain’t in the same league as NT or HC (and if moving to Hinsdale, but not in Central, really look into that first–not saying it would be the wrong decision, just make sure your eyes are open),
Agree….in Hinsdale would go either The Lane or Oak areas for elementary, Hindsdale middle and Hinsdale Central.
(3) If you can buy walking distance to Metra in N’ville, and can/would take the express basically everyday, not that much different commute time than H’dale or NT
Also agree….but for coming downtown on weekends for dinner it’s pretty far. Would likely take the train in and taxi home and Hinsdale/Wilmette/Park Ridge would be a much cheaper cab ride.
“how many CPS freshmen wind up in a gang … by the time they graduate?”
Too many
“how many CPS freshmen wind up … in jail or killed by the time they graduate?”
I don’t have hard numbers, but I’d guess (a) is very few and (b) is zero, ever.
“I should include Glenview on my list….it looks about the same (21 miles or so) as Hinsdale. Northbrook and Highland Park are too far and the Edens can be a nightmare. I think you can get downtown quicker from Hinsdale on I-55 than having to come down the Eden”
good point 55 does tend to be a smoother entry but on a friday rush it doesnt matter all arteries are fucted.
and Mt Prospect should be on the list too! take off Northbrook as who really wants to live there?
gesc, Re: MSU not on a CPS list of top universities and and top universities actually referes to the top 20 schools.
As was mentioned, if 25% of Northside’s grads went to the top 20 colleges in the US they would be sending more than 3 students to each of the top 20 schools every year. Do you honestly think that’s possible? That’s like how many students the top Ivy feeder boarding schools send. Of course they also have national reach and infinitely more connections than a CPS new money school could ever hope to have.
As a comp, New Trier, that you’re so hung up on, only sends one student to each of H/Y/P/S each year.
On a % basis just for H/Y/P/S that would be 4.3% from Northside and .387% for NT. Or, a NSP student would be 11 times more likely to attend HYPS than a NT student. Is that really what you’re trying to sell?
Too funny.
@ anon, sorry your humor (or insult) was lost on me. I have not watched Austin Power’s and don’t intend to.
@ Dan you seem to know nothing about visa process apparently, while EU citizens can visit US without visas for less than 90 days, people from the third world have very difficult visa approval process. For instance, an EU citizen with admission from possum state is guaranteed a student visa. People from East Asia (China, India,…), Africa, and middle east need admission from top research schools to get F1 visas to come to this country.
Any ways I think I will refrain from back and forth with Dan as GBS put it best:
“Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.”
“@ anon, sorry your humor (or insult) was lost on me. I have not watched Austin Power’s and don’t intend to.”
All you need to know of the movie was in my original quote:
““There are two kinds of people I can’t stand. Those who are intolerant of other cultures, and the Dutch””
And the comment (intended to be a joke–sorry) direct to you was riffing on that and the ill-informed derision you’d already gotten. With a small nod to your last line just now.
“All you need to know of the movie was in my original quote:
““There are two kinds of people I can’t stand. Those who are intolerant of other cultures, and the Dutch”””
so muimui,
you question others butchering of the language but you butcher the comprehension of reading it? hmmmm pot meet kettle?
@ anon, you are right I was biting the bait too long : )
@ Groove, sorry if I butchered it. I think here I was lacking cultural background more than language skills : ) Thanks for the stroller insight on the other link.
Live on the other side of the Brownline from here. Georgeous place this is the area we will likely put down roots.
I’m a HS parent. You can quickly resolve the “NSP=Ivy” question; ask a Junior or Senior NSP parent. They can access NSP’s Naviance web-site, and quickly access applied/accepted/attended stats and SCORES for last year’s graduating class. Naviance graphs scores, so that students and parents can clearly grasp what’s a “match” versus “reach” school. No more obscurity.
Most self-described “Ivy/Top 20/Top 40” colleges except no more than one or two top students from each school. An elite NEw England “Mr Chips” prep school might get 4 students in, with legacy and alumni contributions factored in. Even at New Trier/NSP, smart over-achiever kids are competing against those same odds; difference is that at least those students have a decent shot to Ace HS to attain Ivy college education. The competition is fierce. You need to be involved in the current college application environment to understand how competitive it has become. (Anyone out of college for more than a decade can’t compare their experience as current information anymore.)
Technically (b) it would be possible for a student to die walking across the stage (perhaps from a particularly vicious paper cut from the diploma? or a sudden heart attack for the truly social-anxiety-ridden?). Don’t remember any cases of it, though.
On the other hand (a), hundreds of students graduate while enrolled at Nancy B Jefferson and Consuela York schools, in jail.
“I don’t have hard numbers, but I’d guess (a) is very few and (b) is zero, ever.”
There are only 55,000 diversity lottery green cards issued each year (50,000 for 2011), while a minimum of 140,000 green cards are issued under the employment categories and a minimum of 226,000 are issued for family categories. Up to 85,000 H1B visas will be issued in 2011, including 20,000 for those applicants with a US obtained Masters degree.
Any job that is being given to an immigrant as part of a visa petition is advertised and open for any American to apply to, as part of the visa process. They may not want to accept the terms being offered, or have the skills required, but they can apply.
“@ Groove, sorry if I butchered it. I think here I was lacking cultural background more than language skills : ) Thanks for the stroller insight on the other link”
dont be sorry, its a random internet blog, no need to impress as some here are probably wearing sweats and picking their nose at the moment.
I will post some stats on individual hs/college enrollment.
In the meantime, to add to the discussion, CPS total high school cohort dropout rate:
’02 ’03 ’04 ’05 ’06 ’07 ’08 ’09 ’10
50.2 48.4 46.9 44.7 44.0 41.6 42.5 42.5 41.1
CPS graduate college enrollment rate
’04 ’05 ’06 ’07 ’08 ’09
43.5 46.0 47.9 50.0 52.5 54.4
damn, lost the formatting. is there a way to put a table in the comments?
Long time lurker but as I know a little something about Ivy admissions I thought I’d share some info. Every year I do admission interviews for my school, and I receive a spreadsheet that lists every kid admitted in the area. I won’t say which school, but it is one of H/Y/P, so one of the three hardest to get into.
These are all from the first rounds of admits, there’s always a chance someone gets in from the wait list, but I don’t have that info.
Last year NSCP had 3 admits, Payton had 2, W Young had 4, Gwendolyn Brooks, Lane Tech, and Lincoln Park each had 1.
Roma:
(Some?) html tags work here, as Madeline(?) frequently puts quoted text in ital. I am not an html jockey, so I cannot offer advice on details.
’09 graduates for Northside College Prep, college enrollment for select schools:
(note this is enrollment, not just acceptance):
Northwestern: 8
U of C: 8
Stanford: 3
Yale: 3
Harvard: 2
Amherst: 2
Haverford: 2
NYU: 2
Brown: 1
Cornell: 1
Duke: 1
Berkeley: 1
Michigan: 1
Penn: 1
Princeton: 0
Columbia: 0
Should I keep going? Do another year? Another school?
“Should I keep going? Do another year? Another school?”
yes please
As noted many times before, the gender and complexion of the applicant would not factor into their application. Their “Tier”, based on census tract residency, would be a factor – competition would be the stiffest in the highest tier.
“An exceptional student who is white, female, and GZ resident needs to be in “99.5% percentile” of application criteria to gain admission at Northside Prep. At white GZ male probably needs a “98% percentile”, based on this year’s yield. The competition is ridiculous, unless you’ve strong political clout.”
“As noted many times before, the gender and complexion of the applicant would not factor into their application. Their “Tier”, based on census tract residency, would be a factor – competition would be the stiffest in the highest tier.”
Don’t let the facts get in the way of Architect’s CPS bitterness, roma.
And yes, please do continue. So, for ’09, NSCP did about 8x better then NT with SHYP, on a per student basis? That is if we take chi-bull as gospel on NT SHYP stats (which, to be clear, I do not).
Also, Haverford? Really? Seems odd.
Groove, I don’t know what you’re saying yes to, so here’s 2008 for NSCP:
U of C: 11
Northwestern: 4
Harvard: 4
Yale: 3
Dartmouth: 2
Columbia: 1
Cornell: 1
By the way, approx 20-25% of the graduating class every year goes to UIUC.
I highly value Architect’s take on all matters architectural, think he/she is a great contributor, and always read his/her comments with interest. That said, hopefully nobody takes too seriously what *I* have to say about the Prairie School and whatnot…
In a similar vein, I pay attention to what HD says about legal issues (and OIP), what G says about the Chicago housing values, what Russ says about mortgages, etc etc
“By the way, approx 20-25% of the graduating class every year goes to UIUC.”
Due, in no small part for many if not most of them, to the financial aspect of post-secondary education.
Also, 08 and 09 stats negatively affected by the non-college attendance of certain indie music scenesters.
“I highly value Architect’s take on all matters architectural, think he/she is a great contributor, and always read his/her comments with interest. That said, hopefully nobody takes too seriously what *I* have to say about the Prairie School and whatnot…”
Actually, seriously, architect’s CPS comments are valuable, too, but his stats aren’t usually accurate to a significant digit. He’s got a lot of friends in the “feeling burned by CPS” camp, and ignoring the 2d hand thoughts of those folks is not a good idea either–especially because it’s a lot, lot (LOT!) closer to the truth than the speculation of people who don’t have kids based on the ramblings of their friends and acquaintances who (might?) have infants.
But, forgetting that Architect retains a very bad taste about CPS–for whatever reason, bad or good–isn’t the right way top go either.
Sorry, Roma, I don’t belive those numbers.
The Yale and Stanford numbers alone would make any college admissions officer call BS.
4 to Harvard in one year? That doesn’t even make sense.
believe
I’m confused. I thought this was a posting about a house?
Are those all minority admits? If so, I take it back.
If they are all hispanic and aa women, that’s one thing, other wise it doesn’t make sense.
Yeah, that’s sorta what I was trying to get at in the distinction between “reading comments with interest” and “taking too seriously” what someone says. I mean, just because the line is often fuzzy doesn’t mean there’s no difference between fact-finding and hearing people’s opinions.
I meant it when I said that I always read what Architect posts (as opposed to, say, clio, whose comments I generally skip over these days, at his own suggestion no less).
Anyway, here’s Payton for ’09:
Northwestern: 11
Michigan: 5
Yale: 5
U of C: 4
Harvard: 2
Cornell: 2
NYU: 2
Penn: 1
Amherst: 1
Princeton: 0
Columbia: 0
Berkeley: 0
btw, I am (quite arbitrarily) searching for schools that someone might, maybe, perhaps, consider “Top 20,” whatever the hell that means…
“The Yale and Stanford numbers alone would make any college admissions officer call BS. ”
Really? You know about the student bodies of Yale, Stanford *and* Harvard enough over the past decade to know that it is *impossible* that 2, 3 or 4 kids from the same, non-local, public school got in and matriculated? And that it happened two years in a row? And that it is so impossible that *any* admissions officer would call BS?
How do you come to this knowledge, sir?
Schmeeboo on February 28th, 2011 at 5:52 pm
“I’m confused. I thought this was a posting about a house?”
This should be the official CC slogan.
On a serious note, even though I do not yet have children I love the school discussions. So much intrigue and conspiracy.
“btw, I am (quite arbitrarily) searching for schools that someone might, maybe, perhaps, consider “Top 20,” whatever the hell that means…”
Well, you aren’t digging enough, because everyone knows there are at least 50 top 20 colleges.
And 5 Elis from the ’09 Payton class? Are you sure that wasn’t one black cuban lesbian jew* counted 5 times for diversity purposes?
*this is an old admissions joke, not, as far as I know, made by anyone *actually* working in admissions. My apologies if I am offending anyone; that is not my intent. If you are offended, please let me know and I will apologize again to you personally.
““I’m confused. I thought this was a posting about a house?””
I blame Danny for his Balaban & Katz discussion. Curse you Danny!!
I think this house is awesome. However, the floors might give a potential buyer cold feet, as it were.
Agree w Architect and others that the taxes are absurdly low, absent senior/LTO exemption (which do not appear to be in effect).
No yard at all?
Roma, thanks for posting this info re: college enrollments at various high schools. Is it available publicly somewhere? I’d love to browse through the data.
“No yard at all?”
You have the parkways you are required to maintain and that patch of green on the Wilson side. Other than that, it appears to be “No Yard”. I think (as above) that’s just an annoying amount–enough to require you to do yard/garden maintenance, but not enough to actually use for much of anything.
“However, the floors might give a potential buyer cold feet, as it were. ”
My biggest problem with the place. Both style and variety of tile choices are off-putting. However, they do add to the beer hall ambiance (which I suspect was the goal of that B&K electrician, who was most likely Bavarian, as most of LS was then)–if only it had a beer garden, it would be complete.
Would make a great Ground Round Restaurant. I like the neighborhood though, nice neighborhood school @ Waters Elementary.
Chicagobull: I’ll freely admit I’m not familiar with Harvard’s admission process outside of stories, though I don’t see why 4 kids from the top high school in any given state would be a stretch. Especially as that school is a public, city school that already had a fierce competition for admission well above any monied boarding school.
While it is tough, the way the CPS HS feeder system is setup anyone graduating out of the top selective enrollment schools has to have a leg up on life at that stage of the game.*
*I’m not advocating keeping everything the same. My thoughts run the line of working on bringing up the local HS’ honors & AP tracks while opening up a few more SE HS’ – perhaps chartered? as the demand is obviously there. How many people paying 20k yearly for HS would gladly fork over 10k to CPS for an SE school assuming their kid tested in? Frankly my goals are aligned with HD’s in this case.
“How many people paying 20k yearly for HS would gladly fork over 10k to CPS for an SE school assuming their kid tested in?”
As initially appealing as that sounds, it’s really a horrible, horrible idea.
“Really? You know about the student bodies of Yale, Stanford *and* Harvard enough over the past decade to know that it is *impossible* that 2, 3 or 4 kids from the same, non-local, public school got in and matriculated? And that it happened two years in a row? And that it is so impossible that *any* admissions officer would call BS?”
As I mentioned earlier in the thread I worked in admissions at UofC recently enough to not be completely out of the game. I developed working relationships with the admissions staff at our peer schools. As some on here know, UofC has been an Ivy safety forever. We know what students apply to the Ivies and who gets admitted from where.
Schools like Yale, Stanford, and Harvard have astronomically high matriculation rates, a school like Chicago can hand out tons of admit letters and not have to worry about over-admitting the class, where as HYPS can offer far fewer kids before the class is totally full. There is a complete disregard for geographical diversity that is ostensibly on display here that would just never happen. Yale would never offer this many kids from the same schools, certainly not the same CPS schools.
Those figures are cooked, wherever they came from they reek of Chicago political voodoo. Two CPS schools have EIGHT Yale admits in the same year? It would take Berrnie Madoff level arrogance to pass those numbers off as real. Those numbers are so insulting that I’m actually angry that someone would have the balls to publish them.
Yale admits about 1300 kids per class. Eight came from just two Chicago public schools? It’s f’ing ludicrous. Over half of 1% of the class came from two Chicago public schools?
I need to stop here before I give myself an aneurysm.
Neat house, but too much interior drama for my taste. Taxes may be low for a 1.25 million dollar house. Is this house really worth 1.25 million?
“Yale admits about 1300 kids per class.”
I’m going to get pedantic:
Yale *matriculates* about 1300 per class.
For the class of 2013, they admitted 1,951. For the class of 2012, they admitted 1,892.
Sorry, we *wer*e talking about matriculation numbers. I was upset enough to misspeak. I meant matriculates 1300.
BTW 8 admits from those schools would raise the same red flag.
8 matriculating is obscene.
chicagobull: Thanks, again I don’t have much experience outside of my own application processes for schools and it’s interesting to learn about. Sorry for contributing to your high blood pressure.
ps:
with the proper search, you can turn up the name of a NSCP Yale ’12 and 2 Yale ’13s *in the first 10 results*.
And with a diff search, a Payton Yale ’13.
So, *confirmed*, with about 90 seconds of work, that the Yale class of ’13 has at least 3 CPS grads. Even if we assume that there is blending b/t admits and matriculants, bet there were 5 other admits, and wouldn’t be surprised if that many were attending.
Its basically 4000 sqft above grade. Probably classified as a 1.5 Story and on a 45×120 lot. I don’t think the taxes are out of line for technically what it is.
only has 3 Bedrooms up which again is a negative.
Im usually not that guy that comes on here and says its overpriced but I really think this place is worth closer to 800K but that is just my opinion.
Cool place though, I wouldn’t mind living there
Have you guys ever thought that it may be the degree of parental involvement as well as the motivation and intelligence of the children themselves that actually get them admitted into these prestigious schools and NOT just the school itself.
Being one (if not only) person on this site who has actually gone to 3 of the “top schools” listed (U. of C., Harvard, and Stanford), I can say that the people that DID get in were NOT the people who studied and padded their resume to get in – they were actually genuinely smart, interesting, motivated kids that were hard working and passionate about what they did and did it for the sake of learning (and not just to get into a good college). EVERY SINGLE person I knew in high school that tried to pad their resume and did things JUST to get into a good school ended up being very disappointed.
Wanting your kid to get into a good school is not enough to get them in. Having your kid go to a prestigious high school for the sole purpose of getting them into a good college is NOT going to work. However, nurturing them and encouraging their interests in whatever field and supporting them and providing them with guidance, and extra coaching WILL likely result in success.
No one has brought up the success of Urban Prep on the South Side. They are waiting to see if some of their students got admitted to the Ivy League this year. There have been some elite school admissions already- with at least one student admitted to Grinnell.
They all don’t go to 4 year colleges- but as someone pointed out- not everyone takes that route (or should take that route.) It’s just great what motivated teachers (and parents) can do for students who have never been exposed to the opportunities that are out there.
PS Anon, as you so graciously pointed out, we’re talking about actual matriculating students, not admits.
The only thing you’ve *confirmed* is that 3 attending students doesn’t equal 8 attending students.
3 Yalies in one year is reasonable between two selective high schools, 3 in back to back years from one school and 8 from two schools in one year is not.
Like I said earlier, 8 admits is just as ridiculous as 8 attending, so the “cross blending” theory isn’t anywhere near as likely as the numbers being outright false.
U of C, Stanford AND Harvard!!
I bet you also had lunch with Charlie Sheen today as well 🙂
Sorry to detract from the school/racism discussions, but my best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who says that this property is under contract.
I actually think the school debate is very informative and relevant to housing. After all isn’t school quality a big factor in housing prices?
“who says that this property is under contract”
Already?
I hope so. Cool property. Very unique.
“I actually think the school debate is very informative and relevant to housing. After all isn’t school quality a big factor in housing prices?”
Miumiu- I agree. Now that people who are buying need to live there for 10 years (or longer)- I think the school discussion is a hugely important. During the boom, many younger buyers didn’t give the schools any thought at all because they assumed they would move before it became an issue. Now? Probably not.
Lunker – I don’t lie…
Impressive Trifecta Clio…
Under Contract already – oh snap! flashback to 2006
Unique properties sell fast as long as they are priced relatively correctly. How often do you see a house like this on the market in that location? Not often.
Sabrina,
You are such a tough cookie, I am surprised that you are so in love with this place at this price. It seems kind of expensive to me. The view is awful (midrise buildings), there is no yard, and the roof (from the bird’s eye view) looks like it may need to be replaced. It is a corner lot on a street that has more traffic than most of the other streets around here (although not that much). I don’t mean to be a negative person, but there are a lot of very nice houses for 1.25 million in the city and surrounding suburbs.
I think it’s a nice location if you want to live in that neighborhood.
Where have you ever seen a carved ceiling like that? I haven’t ever seen it. Obviously- it’s not the flavor of some people here. But if that’s what you’re looking for in the city- you aren’t finding it in too many locations (and with 6000 square feet AND with 4 car parking.)
Someone who is looking to buy this house isn’t likely to be saying, “gee, maybe we should buy a new construction home in some suburb instead?” No. They are vintage lovers who want to stay in the city and are looking for something that could never be built today.
The Ravenswood Manor and Gardens neighborhood have some of the most interesting bungalows in the city (and is included on the North Side bungalow tour given by the Architecture Foundation.) This is one of those kind of bungalows.
You aren’t buying this house for “the view” Clio.
Sabrina, that house CANNOT be 6000 square feet unless you include the basement. It is still big – but I think that people can do a lot better for the money.
If Chicago Magazine is right this is from 06 I think, Northside College Preparatory High School:
`last year, two students went to Brown, four to Columbia, one to Cornell, one to Dartmouth, five to Harvard, two to the University of Pennsylvania, one to Princeton, and three to Yale`
5 for Harvard, 3 for Yale, 1 for Princton
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/May-2006/Head-of-the-Class/Honor-Roll-How-the-Elite-Eight-Make-the-Grade/
Chicagobull, despite your claims, you do not seem to know much about actual admission processes at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. I went back and found the list of admits from ’09. Again this is from one of the above schools.
NSCP, 4
Whitney Young 2
Payton 2
Lincoln Park 1
Lane Tech 1
so over the last two years the total admits from Chicago public high schools to one of H/Y/P is
NSCP 7
Whitney Young 6
Payton 4
Lincoln Park 2
Lane Tech 2
Gwendolyn Brooks 1
That’s just from one of the top Ivies, so those numbers seem right in range with what Roma posted. The list I have contains the name, phone number, and email of every admitted kid in the area, and interviewers are encouraged to call to congratulate them and try to convince them to matriculate, so there is absolutely no reason to put fake numbers on the list.
One thing I’ve noticed, as the number of admits from the best CPS schools has gone up, they seem to have gone down at Latin, Parker, and Lab. That could just be a short term blip or maybe there’s been a real shift in the last few years.
“The view is awful (midrise buildings)…It is a corner lot on a street that has more traffic than most of the other streets around here (although not that much). I don’t mean to be a negative person, but there are a lot of very nice houses for 1.25 million in the city and surrounding suburbs.”
When these are your comments about a small, unique neighborhood that is one of the most desirable in the city for actual families to live in, and which has seen very little depreciation in the worst real estate market, you reveal the limits of your knowledge.
Who cares about admissions stats into schools like H/Y/P/S? I hope my kid has at least a slim chance of getting admitted to such places, but I sure hope she chooses other schools. Yale or Stanford I could maybe see, but honestly, there’s just so many places that are smaller and would be nicer to spend at least four years. Those are all great schools (the best), but they’re primarily for the parents’, and later the kid’s, ego, and secondarily for the kid’s enrichment. And yes, I hope she goes to a little liberal arts college and studies philosophy, literature and other art. (Cue the conservative cranks with “that’s what’s wrong with our country, these stupid liberals ain’t learnin’ nothin’ about math and science; we need more engineers, not lawyers and professors; these morons with liberal arts degrees end up buying 2/2’s. . .”) Sure, in response to the “so where is she going in the fall?” question, I’d love to say “Yale,” and that would be that. But I’ll be just as happy if I get to say “Brown” or “Colorado College.” I just hope she’s a smart, happy and nice adult who’s confronted as little as posssible with racists, homophobes, zenophobes, mysoginists and anti-Semites.
For the record, anyone believing they have a legal right to privacy when posting on this website is uninformed.
A few dollars will get you a nice official looking domain name with pop e-mail, or just make one with yahoo or g-mail. If you really want to remain private just switch proxies.
But legally this is a public domain.
Btw.. HD glad you liked the video… It does make Clio’s argument in 20-25 years the one that is probably correct. Strong upward shift to the right. Ze likes looking at life expectancy only 100 years ago and thinking….. Great and fortunate time we were born into.
Surprised to read the dismissals of the local Catholic hs’s as not up to the standards of the top CPS hs’s. To read the ads and “regular” articles in the diocesan “New World” newspaper, one gets the impression that EVERY Catholic school (especially the secondaries) is a top-quality institution preparing future Rhodes scholars, while EVERY public school is a breeding ground for slackers-and-worse.
And for the past few generations many parents (including some non-Catholics) subscribed to this theory, the result being one of several factors leading to the dysfunctionality of many public school systems here and elsewhere.
Apparently the current crop of parents-of-teens are not necessarily buying it. So will the Catholic schools have to step it up in the future?
“Would make a great Ground Round Restaurant”
Christine OMG you brought me back on that one!!!!!!! I remember playing that one button baseball game on the projector and eating the popcorn they gave you instead for bread.
I’m surprised about the lack of discussion of Catholic High Schools, as well. 40 years ago, when there were no school lotteries or charter/magnet schools and the like, if you happened to live in a neighborhood with a crappy HS, you simply sent your kid to the Catholic HS of your choice. That’s what happened to me. CPS til 8th grade, then when confronted w/ sending me to Clemente (formerly known as Tuley) (or was it Schurz?), mom signed me up for Catholic girls HS. There was no choosing for me, it was what it was, and that’s where I went. It didn’t seem to break the bank, and I still wonder how my folks swung it on dad’s (back then) $17k salary, but that was the only choice back then. We had kids that were NOT Catholic there, and we only had one mandatory Theology class per year. In our case, it wasn’t at all about the religious angle, it was about the education. And I was the little snot who, in Theology class, would pipe up with “Sister, what if you don’t believe in God?”, and get the evil eye from her.
On the other hand, there are less and less choices for Catholic Girls HS anymore. Madonna? gone. Alvernia? gone. Immaculata? gone. Like 3 left on the north side. Boys schools not much better, and there’s maybe a dozen coed schools. Most are in the $7-10k range. Still, if you’re able to spend > half a million on a home, how is it that spending $1k a month to send your spawn to a Catholic HS is too much? Maybe cut back on the lattes and sell one of the Range Rovers?
Surely you wouldn’t want you child to go to Brown! That’s about as Ivy as UPenn
“But I’ll be just as happy if I get to say “Brown” ”
In The Simpsons episode called “Lisa Gets an ‘A'” (the seventh episode of The Simpsons’ tenth season) There is a scene where Lisa Simpson is sitting in the class-room at school daydreaming, she dreams that she fails her test, heres a script:
-dream sequence-
Hoover: And the lowest grade in the class …
Ralph: She’s going to say my name!
Hover: Lisa Simpson, zero!
Skinner: Lisa, the president of Harvard would like to see you.
Pres.: Nasty business, that zero. Naturally, Harvard’s doors are now closed to you, but I’ll pass your file along to … Brown.
Skinner: Mmmm, Brown. Heckuva school. Weren’t you at Brown, Otto?
Otto: Yup. Almost got tenure, too.
Lisa: [gasps in horror] No, not Brown, Brown..
-end dream-
Lisa: …Brown, Brown..
Miss Hoover: Lisa, you’re saying Brown an awful lot, are you okay?
I look at it as the choice between paying taxes or private school, not both.
“Still, if you’re able to spend > half a million on a home, how is it that spending $1k a month to send your spawn to a Catholic HS is too much? Maybe cut back on the lattes and sell one of the Range Rovers?”
“One thing I’ve noticed, as the number of admits from the best CPS schools has gone up, they seem to have gone down at Latin, Parker, and Lab. That could just be a short term blip or maybe there’s been a real shift in the last few years.”
How many do Latin, Lab and Parker get then? I’d be interested in knowing. Everyone assumes that those schools will open up all the doors in college admissions.
“Sabrina, that house CANNOT be 6000 square feet unless you include the basement.”
Sure it could. It’s on an oversized lot Clio and takes up most of it. If they can fit 4600 to 5000 square foot houses on a standard lot, what do you think they’re putting on an oversized lot?
regarding Catholic schools, it’s about much more than academics for many. they are generally considered a safer bet as far as keeping your kid away from negative elements like gangs, drugs, STDs, etc. It’s also about the networking – I had a friend at Ignatius who said “after here, I get my degree at Notre Dame and I can write my own ticket in Chicago.”
The catch with that is, I think that doesn’t apply outside of Chicago (which explains a lot if you think about it).
If Chicago Public Schools (or the parents) would realize that not teaching religion doesn’t mean you can’t teach ethics & morals, we’d all be better off.
This is why we have the political corruption we do, IMO.
Kids simply aren’t taught what is right and wrong in school – they are instead told not to break the rules. So over decades, people in charge of making/enforcing those rules simply make them as watery as possible. Look at the nonsense that is a typical Chicago election. Our City practically froths at the mouth regarding how the candidates navigate all the Byzantine anti-democratic rules of the road – so we get slicksters, hucksters and the like.
This serves the public good how?
ITS 6000 INCLUDING BASEMENT AND ITS CLASSIFIED AS A 1.5 STORY.
THIS IS WHY THE TAXES ARE ONLY 7K
FROM ASSESSORS WEBSITE
Property Characteristics
Estimated 2010 Market Value
514,060
Estimated 2009 Market Value
514,060
Description
One Story Residence, Any Age, 1,801 Sq Ft. and Over
Residence Type
1.5 to 1.9 Stories
Use
Single Family
Apartments
None
Exterior Construction
Masonry
Full Baths
2
Half Baths
0
Basement1
Partial and Rec Room
Attic
Full and Living Area
Central Air
Yes
Number of Fireplaces
1
Garage Size/Type2
3 car attached
Age:
89
Land Square Footage
5,400
Building Square Footage
4,274
Assessment Pass
First Pass
Should we then see that a disproportionately low percentage of the politicians/slicksters/hucksters were educated at catholic schools? And that a proportionate/high number were educated at public schools?
“If Chicago Public Schools (or the parents) would realize that not teaching religion doesn’t mean you can’t teach ethics & morals, we’d all be better off.
This is why we have the political corruption we do, IMO.
Kids simply aren’t taught what is right and wrong in school – they are instead told not to break the rules. So over decades, people in charge of making/enforcing those rules simply make them as watery as possible. Look at the nonsense that is a typical Chicago election. Our City practically froths at the mouth regarding how the candidates navigate all the Byzantine anti-democratic rules of the road – so we get slicksters, hucksters and the like.
This serves the public good how?”
“If they can fit 4600 to 5000 square foot houses on a standard lot”
Can you find a 2 story, plus basement, house on a 25′ lot that is 4600+ sf not counting the basement? I’ll hang up and wait for a response.
ps: Unless there’s a 3d floor, or it’s a grandfathered building taking up basically the entire lot (that is, a higher % of the lot than even this one does), ain’t getting 5000 SF above grade.
“I’ll hang up and wait for a response.”
She never said 2 story and you admit a 3 story would fit, so, what’s your point?
Nope, it’s exactly the opposite. The elite at places like St Ignatius are groomed to lead, and to exploit the divisiveness (and ignorance) of the public & the system.
If we had a better educated public, we’d demand better leaders – I worked for the Waguespack campaign again, and what was noteworthy to me was how many of the hard-core volunteers had out-of-area phone numbers. Professionals and the highly educated simply don’t fall for the usual “but the trains run on time” bs we’ve been fed for so long.
Actually, in 2010 the updated version would be “At least we’re not Detroit. Thanks to Mayor Daley!”
You do NOT want to know how bad the City’s finances really are.
“Should we then see that a disproportionately low percentage of the politicians/slicksters/hucksters were educated at catholic schools? And that a proportionate/high number were educated at public schools?”
“She never said 2 story and you admit a 3 story would fit, so, what’s your point?”
Really?
To recap:
““Sabrina, that house CANNOT be 6000 square feet unless you include the basement.”
Sure it could. … If they can fit 4600 to 5000 square foot houses on a standard lot, what do you think they’re putting on an oversized lot?”
Since this a 1.5 story house, what’s the relevance of a 3 story house? May as well say that they can fit a 50,000 square foot building on a double lot, which is also true.
And, clio was right. The only way *this* house totals 6000 SF is by counting at least some portion of the basement or the garage or the terrace or a combination thereof.
“Professionals and the highly educated simply don’t fall for the usual “but the trains run on time” bs we’ve been fed for so long.”
Well, that’s largely because the trains *don’t* run on time. If all the city services actually worked as well as they should, then maybe professionals and the highly-educated would fall for it.
“You do NOT want to know how bad the City’s finances really are.”
Would you say better or worse than the state as a whole? Why?
Sabrina, sorry for the lateness in replying, I had to dig a little through old emails to get the information. Now again this is just one of the three schools and you can’t discount trendiness. Some years everyone goes for Princeton over the other two, or Harvard or Yale is the most popular place to apply for whatever reason.
10
Lab 1
Latin 0
Parker 0
Ignatius 1
09
Lab 1
Latin 0
Parker 1
Ignatius 2
08
Lab 1
Latin 1
Parker 1
Ignatius 2
NSCP 4
Whitney Young 2
Payton 1
07
Lab 3
Latin 2
Parker 2
Ignatius 2
NSCP 2
W Young 1
Payton 0
06
Lab 4
Latin 2
Parker 1
Ignatius 2
NSCP 2
W Young 2
Payton 1
05
Lab 4
Latin 2
Parker 0
Ignatius 1
NSCP 5
W Young 4
Payton 1
I was a ’98 grad of one of the big 3 privated. We sent 6 kids to my college that year, 7 the year before that. Those were high totals even then, a few years before that I think we had one or none. But is sure seems like the big 3 are sending fewer kids to my school than they did.
The catholic high schools have suffered much since the selective enrollment craze began (or was reignited, to be more precise) with the opening of Northside 12 years ago. Apparently with the sole exception of Ignatius, they are struggling to attract students. The stories of kids being admitted to no SEHS but to honors programs at a catholoic high school are out there. It makes sense economically: As parents perceive that their child will obtain the same or better education at a public high school and money is at all a factor and religious education is not, the choice is easy. Many schools are trying to maintain their population (Gordon Tech) or even expand (St. Ben’s) but with limited success.
Why has the discussion on this board been focused solely on how many kids from the various high schools attend ivy schools? There are so, so many other criteria upon which to judge a high school other than how many go on to an ivy, much of which is just, as they say, “the luck of the draw” or how well you can be pigeonholed into some sort of ethnicity to meet their admission requirement, or in teh case of the ‘rich’, legacy admissions (George Bush went to Yale, come on, what a f’in joke.) My NW suburban high school had plenty of straight A overachievers and during my time there the only person to get accepted was white, had a perfect ACT score and was the the drum major in the band. This obsession with the ivys as a criteria for being ‘the best’ school is just stupid.
“ITS 6000 INCLUDING BASEMENT AND ITS CLASSIFIED AS A 1.5 STORY.
THIS IS WHY THE TAXES ARE ONLY 7K”
Taxes are low because the assessed value (10% of the assessor’s estimated market value) is not in line with the actual market value.
“Why has the discussion on this board been focused solely on how many kids from the various high schools attend ivy schools? ”
You really think that’s what the discussion “solely” focused on?
And, to the extent it did, it started with this comment from chi-bull:
“Rather than putting your kid on a 12 year torture rack in this city just for a shot at going to Michigan State”
and was compounded by his *consistent* disbelief of all presentations of information about how many CPS grads are admitted to and attend ivies.
Also, didn’t you see my Haverford question? Any idea on why Haverford?
homedelete, I was just responding to previous posts about how absurd it supposedly was to think that the selective publics sent X number of kids to Harvard, Yale or Stanford. There’s a million ways to judge a school, and admissions to Ivies is a silly short hand. Since ’08 Thornton Township High School in Harvey has sent as many kids to my super duper selective big name school as Latin has, does that mean they are equally good schools? Um, no. (no insult meant to Thornton, I just grabbed a school I figured people may have heard of that was not considered in the same class as the best schools in the region)
Why the dissing of Brown? It was good enough for John-John Kennedy, after all.
Good Counsel HS is another Catholic girls’ school that closed over the last decade or so. One factor may be, like many all-girls schools, it refused to go co-ed. For some reason Catholic boys’ schools (such as Marist and Gordon Tech) have been far more willing to reach out to the opposite sex in the interest of staying alive and continuing their “educational mission.”
Roma,
oops i was going for, yes to other schools,
i would really like to see the break down of what college admits per school.
like say Jones prep, Lane, and Von to a prosser, forman, Orr, Clemente
“Should I keep going? Do another year? Another school?”
yes please”
Groove, I don’t know what you’re saying yes to”
Those Latin, Lab, and Parker numbers that Z700 posted only underscore how absolutely ridiculous the CPS numbers are.
The “Big Three” numbers are in line with national trends at selective private schools. The CPS numbers are flat out bogus and are being cooked somehow.
Of all the shadiness I’ve seen in 12 years around Chicago, this is the most troubling.
If these numbers aren’t bogus, then Chicagoans are paying for the city’s cherry picked elite kids to get a free taxpayer funded education that is somehow several times more likely to get them into Yale and Harvard than schools like Phillips and Grotton. This begs the question of why are we publicly funding these schools? These kids could easily get scholarships to the private schools. If these schools were private there would be no lack of funding for them or schollies for the disadvantaged children that couldn’t pay. Why are we footing the bill for them? It’s insane.
And who in god’s name would trust CPS to give their kids a better education than Latin or Lab? Public education sucks at all levels for several very basic reasons. I can only imagine the Chicago style nannies popping off at these selective enrollment schools.
This is either Madoff level fraud or a Madoff level free ride on the tax payer dime, and it won’t last, folks. It can’t. This is the pure manifestation of an unsustainable trend.
“several times more likely to get them into Yale and Harvard than schools like Phillips”
You’re totally, completely wrong about this. From 2007-09, Phillips Exeter grads *matriculating* at H and Y totaled:
H = 42
Y = 33
Princeton was another 33; Stanford another 20.
It simply is not true that about 12 *admits* from NS+WP+WY+Lane is “several times more likely” than Exeter, matriculating 11 to 14 to EACH of HYP from a class only a bit larger than one of NS/WP/WY.
Link: http://college.exeter.edu/published/newsletters/College%20Matriculation_2006-2008.html
ps: Stuyvesant, the NYC equivalent of NS or Payton, and about 2x the size of NS + Payton, supposedly sends about 30% to ivies every year.
Is that *also* a “Madoff level fraud”?
OK, how about this. Say your kid is looking at admits to NSCP, Latin, and Ignatus. Where do you send them? I have to admit that I am hard pressed to shell out the cash with free on the table.
I would take the matriculation numbers solely on the basis that I would like my kid’s peer group (at least the one I sorta controll) to be striving for ivies not so much that they will head there themselved. My lowly suburban public HS sent kids to the ivies and I think that being surrounded by them was probably a good thing for my cometitiveness even though my diplioma reads the name of a Liberal Arts Institution found at the terminus of I-88.
“Really?”
anon, yes. I took Sabrina’s comment to be relevant about allowable density (FAR).
“anon, yes. I took Sabrina’s comment to be relevant about allowable density (FAR).”
Fair enough. I took it to be about fitting it into the space on the lot, and I haven’t seen a 5000 sf, on two-levels, house on a standard lot.
“OK, how about this. Say your kid is looking at admits to NSCP, Latin, and Ignatus. Where do you send them? I have to admit that I am hard pressed to shell out the cash with free on the table.”
There has to be a *very* strong reason to go private over NSCP.
Proximity is definitely a very strong reason, to me, so if those were the choices, and we lived in, say, OTT, Latin would be a *strong* contender, were it possible to afford it.
Anon,
You also thought it was unlikely that Northside was producing so many top level grads earlier in the thread. Didn’t you? You seem to have changed your tune after Roma posted some completely unverified stats. Why do you believe those numbers?
You also brought up “certain indie music scenesters” skewing the admission numbers downward in ’09? Your comment seems to back up my “12 year torture rack for nothing” comment.
You question about Havorford College: Haverford is a pretty good LAC outside of Philly, is it Harvard or Williams? No, but they do have cross registration with Swarthmore which means they must be pretty freaking good.
Of course that’s another red flag, Haverford is a REAL small school. Two matriculates from the same school in Chicago seems odd. Not 5 Yalies in the same class odd, but eyebrow raising.
I also question the lack of Westcoast/mountain schools from those lists. These schools are VERY popular with elite students around the city: Reed, the CMCs, Colorado College, and Cal. They might have been left off those lists for a reason, but it’s suspicious considering the trends of other elite Chicago students. And where are the hardcore “nerd” schools MIT, Cal Tech, and Swathmore? I would assume if these are super hard test-in schools, they would be attracting genius types more than status conscious Yale and Harvard types. It’s troubling, and weird , and eye opening, and anger inducing.
Anyway, I’ve said my peace. This is actually wearing me out.
Anon, you don’t even know what Haverford is. Nor do you know the difference between Exeter and Philips Andover.
Like I said, I’m done here.
Wait, wait, first the great CPS high schools sucked because they don’t send many people to the Ivies, then when it was demonstrated that they do send quite strong numbers to the Ivies and other good schools, all things considered, it’s either a big fraud and they’re lying about the numbers and these individuals have been made up out of thin air OR they really are that good and the argument is they’re too good and the taxpayers are getting ripped off because some kids are getting a great education?
chicagobull, can you at least pick a bad argument and stick with it?
CB: “Anon, you don’t even know what Haverford is. Nor do you know the difference between Exeter and Philips Andover.”
Don’t tell me what I don’t know.
Especially since it would appear that *you* do not know that it is “Phillips Exeter Academy”–you said “Phillips”, I grabbed the “Phillips” that I knew had really accessible matriculation stats.
As to Haverford, it was mostly a joke. Was surprised that they pulled two, and was wondering why that might be, given the small size–frankly, somewhat surprised that 2 people would *apply*.
CB: “You also brought up “certain indie music scenesters” skewing the admission numbers downward in ‘09? Your comment seems to back up my “12 year torture rack for nothing” comment.”
It was a specific (joking, again) reference to a local band getting a fair amount of recent press, all 3 of whom were NS grads and all of whom got into NW or UC or both. Sorry to confuse you.
CB: “I also question the lack of Westcoast/mountain schools from those lists.”
I suspect that Roma was exhibiting the dreaded “east coast bias”. Damn NY-centric media.
CB: “You also thought it was unlikely that Northside was producing so many top level grads earlier in the thread. Didn’t you?”
I questioned 60+ at the “top 20” if the “top 20” consists of exactly 20 schools. It seems odd to get that kind of concentration out of a public school in a state that does not have a public university in the “top 20” (UIUC is a fine school, but not “top 20”)–you well might get it from a selective enrollment public HS in Cali, where 25% of the class might go to *Cal* alone.
That 10 kids might go to HYPS? Totally different.
“OR they really are that good and the argument is they’re too good and the taxpayers are getting ripped off because some kids are getting a great education?”
Yeah, 2!!
I really, honestly, am curious about CB’s view of Stuyvesant. Is Stuyvesant ripping off NYC taxpayers? I’m *certain* that there are more than a few students there whose parents could afford Dalton or Horace Mann, so is that a “Madoff-level ripoff”?
The numbers I posted, are 100% accurate (well I suppose I could have miscounted somewhere, the lists have come in different formats over the years), again, the guy who co-ordinates the alumni interviews sends it out to all the interviewers. My numbers only refer to one extremely selective school, extrapolate it out and they make me think Roma’s numbers are probably pretty accurate.
I’m also blown away by the idea that public schools should not be for the “gifted” because they could get scholarships to a private. Public schools are open to everyone, that’s the whole point. Smart, dumb, in the middle, our public education system should be able to accomodate you. The fact that CPS has a number of schools that attract and nurture some of our brightest kids is a good thing, it’s absurd to think we should tell some kids that we don’t want them because they are smart enough to have someone pay to educate them somewhere else.
I hate this house. It reminds me of the Winchester Mansion in CA. Blech. Over done, permanent staging, blech. Dont get me started on that tile bathroom.
Sabrina, i heart you – a house can’t be very unique. It is unique or it is not. Full stop.
All you about the CPS – can’t you pipe down?? How about a crib chatter school site – mirrored with all school comments!! Then those of us can focus on tearing all other aspects apart??
🙂
I think Chicagobull, Bob, and Dan should get together. At least two of them might find their soul mates in the others : )
I am pretty ignorant about the school system (below college level) in this country, so take my posting with a grain of salt. But, I am sure not what you are complaining about. I read through the above discussion, that these schools are very hard to get into. So what is wrong with paying for the education of the most talented kids in this country to help them go to great universities? I mean you are against helping the poor, the minorities and now the top students. So whom should we help pay for, mediocre kids?
“If these numbers aren’t bogus, then Chicagoans are paying for the city’s cherry picked elite kids to get a free taxpayer funded education that is somehow several times more likely to get them into Yale and Harvard than schools like Phillips and Grotton. This begs the question of why are we publicly funding these schools? “
Funny as a NYC kid, never saw Stuyvesant and Dalton as competitive schools in enrollment. Kids that go to Dalton, their parents made that decision for them and often times get the preperation together before the kid is even born.
As for adults, never heard any complain about having a school like Stuyvesant in the city.
My sentiments. If you have kids, school should be the single most important determining factor in including/excluding neighborhoods when making a purchasing decision. Unless private school is an available option, I would never raise a child anywhere I wasn’t 100% certain of my childs future school.
“My sentiments. If you have kids, school should be the single most important determining factor in including/excluding neighborhoods when making a purchasing decision.”
I disagree.
Can’t believe I’ve missed a school discussion thread. Don’t think the college stats for the selective admission HS are that out of the world anyway. With the caveat that it’s been a while since I’ve been in school, having 2 kids or so enroll in each of H/Y/P doesn’t seem that exceptional. There were certainly non-selective public high schools (granted on east coast) that achieved that and were thought of as very good, but not incredible schools. (Again, my info may be dated.)
Also, yeah, “Phillips” is not exactly well-defined.
The biggest reason that Catholic HS’s are relatively out-of-favor is the cost. Tuition for these schools used to be $1200-$2000 per year, now they’re 4-5 times that!
I suspect that if today Northside Prep charged tuition equal to St. Ignatius, the majority of Catholic parents would choose St. Ignatius. Catholic parents will always feel a twinge of guilt for sending their kids to Payton or Northside or esp. Whitney Young, but they justify it (the selling-out) by rationalizing on the cost-savings.
“Funny as a NYC kid, never saw Stuyvesant and Dalton as competitive schools in enrollment. Kids that go to Dalton, their parents made that decision for them and often times get the preperation together before the kid is even born.”
Well, yeah, but the point was about being able to *afford* it. As you know, with those schools, afford does not imply ability to gain admission. But CB’s contention re NSCP would imply that Stuyvesant is also a Maddof-level ripoff b/c some of the parents could have afforded comparable quality private schools.
“But CB’s contention re NSCP would imply that Stuyvesant is also a Maddof-level ripoff ”
I’d rather send my kids to a public school where they at least understand how to spell Bernard’s last name correctly. Sounds like posting at 3am, even if sober, isn’t your forte.
(no no tilde marks on my fortes)
Also I smirk at the overabundance of caution and statistics parents on this thread place into school statistics. It appears to me they don’t understand that their level of parental involvement (or lack thereof) will determine what college their offspring wind up attending (if any).
Yeah sorry dual career couples who never found the time for their kiddos–by the time your kids are ready to graduate highschool you aren’t really primary influences on them anymore. That ship has sailed. But that never stopped mommy & daddy from both working to buy that big house to keep up with the Joneses did it?
Your kiddos recognize by highschool (or earlier) whether they were really on your radar growing up or rather just an object to brag about at social cocktail parties.
Yeah I knew people with maids in HS whose parents had high incomes. They were typically the one’s dealing drugs or abusing them (and alcohol of course), in high school.
I truly do laugh about all the emphasis on school districts and everything else because I know when people talk like they do here on CC about such trivialities its because both parents aren’t often home.
And perhaps Bobbo is projecting here (a lil) but it doesn’t lead to more visitations at the nursing home during the final phase. Likely less. Keep chasing that money, dual income whities, mommy needs a new Lexus. 😀
Bob – wow, that’s a quite of a bit of a stretch. My interpretation is that the very people who are talking about these issues on a board like this are the folks that will be involved, concerned parents trying to help the kiddos out.
Not that everyone just goes to work, sits at a computer, blasts blog posts out about schools for kids they don’t have or don’t see, and then go home and not interact with the family.
However, I didn’t grow up with anyone who had a maid as a kid. Probably housekeepers or lawn maintenance folks though.
“Not that everyone just goes to work, sits at a computer, blasts blog posts out about schools for kids they don’t have or don’t see, and then go home and not interact with the family.”
my interpetation, is that the CC’ers that talk about schools and the sorts, judging by the times of day they post is that they care more about being with the fam than work. cause all day at work they are yapping on a blog and once 4 0’clock hits and the posts slow then you see a pick up around 9pm which the kids are in bed.
so its the CC’er kids we have nothing to worry about thier parents are involved and are willing to take time from thier fantasy football league and dirty picturez searching on the internet to research schools and know the stats of a pulaski school better than the stat of Michael Vick’s comeback season.
*and BTW anon (ufo) you have had some late night (or early morning) postings. put down the pipe, turn off the scooby-doo, close up cheeto’s 3am is too early to wake-n-bake
Bob, if your conclusions are merely drawn on projections, let me give you mine.
Both my husband and I come from dual career homes and have never touched drugs, are educated and make a decent living. BTW, so are all my cousins and his. My parents were always involved closely when I was growing up. In fact, having a smart, sophisticated, and content mother who brings in an income which can be used for say cleaning ladies, nannies and so on, often results in kids spending quality time with their parents rather than just time. Also speaking as a woman, my mother was always a role model for me whom I wanted to make proud.
“I’d rather send my kids to a public school where they at least understand how to spell Bernard’s last name correctly. Sounds like posting at 3am, even if sober, isn’t your forte.”
I will make sure to point out any typos you make from now on, Bob. And word choice, syntax and grammar errors, too.
Oh, wait, no I won’t, because this is a intertubez comment thread, not even something as “professional” as a twitter feed.
State is likely worse, just due to scale. It has to do with some budgeting “magic” whereby over the decades administrators found ways to bury a day or two of an entire City/state payroll by either retroactively pretending it went to year A, or by pretending it would be covered by year B.
It’s easy to see how it could have once upon a time been an honest mistake, and then just simply snowballed to the point where you have cash flow problems even when (ha) everything looks ok on the books.
Here is (I think) how he described it:
So a pay period overlaps year B from year A, with the actual payday being in year B. Year A pretends that days worked in Year A actually “belong” to Year B’s budget. Year B does the same, in reverse.
So when the State can’t pay its bills, this is a factor – the money was spent from the bank, but never accounted for.
Compounding this problem is the reality we’ve been running deficits for decades – so that unaccounted for expense also required bonds, which requires interest to be paid, which compounds over time.
It’s boring, mundane, etc. But multiplied over 40,000 employees, even one single day unaccounted for means a massive screw-up in terms of that cash flow – and ends up in practical terms of being more sinister than any Wire or Chicago Code “crime scheme” in terms of bilking taxpayers.
“Would you say better or worse than the state as a whole? Why?”
I agree with you bob, as most of today’s “concerned parents” are putting too much emphasis on the schools their children attend, and while demanding getting quality for the taxes you pay isn’t out of this world ridiculous, the fact that most of these people use what schools their children attend as a source of braggadocio (just like their mcmansion, or new Mercedes GL550)
And when timmy doesn’t score an A on every test, the teachers have to hear about it from the parents like its their fault. I can’t say I blame the teachers for demanding raises every year because it seems as though parents are getting worse every year and are required to do more work for putting up with the parents nonsense because they want to teach and not babysit.
The overarching, helicopter parents and the dual income no-shows are breeding the next batch of sociopathic, drug dealing, antisocial internet predators, or debt laden big ten dropouts.
Whatever!
“State is likely worse, just due to scale.”
Even after accounting for the state’s greater ability to raise taxes? If Chicago were to implement a city income tax (ala NYC), throngs would just move out of the city, which would just make things even worse. Less flexibility to dodge the income tax on the state level.
If so, then I wouldn’t be scared to find out how bad the city’s finances are.
Hey PJC, can’t you take the purple and switch at Fullerton or “Belmont?”
I could, but I get a pre-tax Metra/CTA combo pass through work. It’s not super well known, but it gives you a metra pass (zone B in my case) plus an unlimited CTA card during rush hours (6-10 and 4-7, I think).
I take the metra to ravenswood, and bus/el/walk over depending on the weather. If I take the 5:03 metra I’m walking in the door at about 5:35, typically, so I shave about 20 minutes off of my daily commute for maybe an extra $30 per month. Sometimes I take that in as well, but it doesn’t save me as much time.
Not sure about that – I think sound financial planning would be for an income tax at the municipal level, and to completely divorce public school budgets from property taxes, which have no relation to one’s actual cash flow.
I have a good dozen friends who have moved to Brooklyn over the past 10 years, they all say this is a better, fairer system.
“If Chicago were to implement a city income tax (ala NYC), throngs would just move out of the city, which would just make things even worse.”
“Not sure about that – I think sound financial planning would be for an income tax at the municipal level, and to completely divorce public school budgets from property taxes, which have no relation to one’s actual cash flow.
I have a good dozen friends who have moved to Brooklyn over the past 10 years, they all say this is a better, fairer system.”
That may be true, but it (1) isn’t actually in the City’s total control and (2) doesn’t patch the existing debt problem.
Of course, one of the reasons Catholic schools have such high tuitions nowadays is that they actually have to PAY SALARIES to the teachers. Very few nuns/brothers/priests are available to pursue teaching as a “vocation” rather than a “career.”
One of my cousins went to St. Ignatius while I think her sister went to Lake Forest Academy. (Their parents lived in Deerfield.) Are those two schools really “equal” in quality, etc.?
“The overarching, helicopter parents and the dual income no-shows are breeding the next batch of sociopathic, drug dealing, antisocial internet predators, or debt laden big ten dropouts.”
Debt laden big-10 dropouts. But don’t worry parents across the country are doing this: in my undergrad only half graduate despite it not being particularly difficult. A LOT of people see it not only as a chance to party but as a way to get back at a perceived over demanding ma & pa and likely never really wanted to goto college to begin with without their nagging.
These people made undergrad very easy for me. Its very easy to get an A when 1/3 of the class doesn’t show up most of the time and you show up to every class. Pretty far from rocket science! 😀
hah yeah bob, I was a part of the guilty 1/3rd that rarely went to class. When i did go to class, it was pretty easy to get a least a B unless you totally sucked at the subject like me with Classic Civilization classes, what a snoozer! Who gives a f— about some crappy clay vase from a couple thousand years ago!
I took Art Professions 3 times, wish I had known about it earlier I could’ve taken it 8 times. One credit hour meets every Friday from 12-1 the grade is entirely attendance based. Perfect attendance = A. Sit there and catch up on gossip and eat lunch with fellow frat brothers and get yelled at or shushed by the people there that actually gave a sh1t about art/the artist speaking and weren’t there just to pad their GPA. Good times.
This place went under contract within the first few days on the market. I’m guessing that probably means they’ll get near asking.
List Price: $1.25 million
Sale Price: $1.2 million
Closed 6/7
I lived in this house for 17 yrs. and bought it from the original owner’s son in 1976. The neighborhood was not what it is today! I sold it in 93 to move to Park Ridge for the schools. I miss the house dearly and couldn’t afford a condo in Ravenswood Gardens today. However, my property taxes in Park Ridge are much higher than the ones on this home.