What $899,000 Gets You In Roscoe Village In 2012: 1943 W. Roscoe
This 4-bedroom single family home at 1943 W. Roscoe in the Roscoe Village neighborhood of North Center recently came on the market.
It was built in 1999 on a standard Chicago lot of 25×125.
It has the features buyers look for including central air and a 2-car garage.
Three of the four bedrooms are on the second floor with the fourth in the lower level along with a family room.
The kitchen has cherry cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
The listing says there is a new master bath with oversized steam shower.
This stretch of Roscoe is treecovered and very residential yet it is just down the street from the shops and restaurants of Roscoe Village and also from the Paulina El stop. (When I was on this block there were groups of neighborhood kids running from house to house.)
Is the $800,000 price range the price for the standard 4-bedroom in this neighborhood?
Jeff Lowe at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
1943 W. Roscoe: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in December 1999 for $611,500
- Sold in April 2004 for $835,000
- Currently listed at $899,000
- Taxes of $14,845
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 18×17 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 13×9 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 17×14 (lower level)
900k in Roscoe Village?! Guess they’re looking for a “Village” idiot!
not sure what happened since 2004 for this to appreciate…
…vinyl siding that they felt the need to hide in the realtor pics, apparently.
Some critical comments: This is not “EXTRA-WIDE.” It’s on a standard lot and the room sizes show that it has the customary setbacks, yielding maximum room width of 17-18 feet. I also don’t see any walnut inlay, but perhaps it is covered by rugs or whatever. Most buyers will also want 4 bedrooms up in this size property and price range. Certainly at $950k list or above only 3 up would kill it.
I admit that I have soured significantly on Jeff Lowe since I became aware of his behaviour in the transaction in which he and his clients got sued for housing discrimination. I did not hire him for a recent sale due to this reason. However, I do think that he does an excellent job of marketing properties and seems to advise people well, at least on most issues.
Bottom line, medium to large newish SFH in good area, good school, market says around early – mid 2000s price. Their list is reasonable if a bit of a stretch, and I think that a reasonable sale price for this would be $820k.
Which is preferable – vinyl siding or split block?
Probably you can replace that vinyl siding with the JamesHardie stuff or similar for, what, $25k or so? Or wrap it in brick for $50k? I really don’t know. My view is that any siding is better than split-face block, unless lots of maintenance gets you off.
Since there is pitch roof with gutters, any siding would be about the same. Most (almost all) problems with split face happen at the coping stone which is the top-most brick cap… which is why it’s somewhat funny that people always focus on the sealing aspect. I think people are more comfortable will a solution in a paint bucket (even one that is not a solution to the actual problem).
speaking of siding, what is the best type of siding to have? I assume they all have advantages and drawbacks?
“Probably you can replace that vinyl siding with the JamesHardie stuff or similar for, what, $25k or so? Or wrap it in brick for $50k? I really don’t know.”
Anyone know from experience a good ballpark? At least for the hardie board?
With those kid rooms, is this a job transfer, job loss, or preference to move to a different nabe? Does anyone know?
“Most (almost all) problems with split face happen at the coping stone which is the top-most brick cap… which is why it’s somewhat funny that people always focus on the sealing aspect. I think people are more comfortable will a solution in a paint bucket (even one that is not a solution to the actual problem).”
This has not been my experience with the property I have with split-face block. Chicago winters, especially if you have a wall which gets a lot of wind-drive rain or slush (which would usually be a west-facing wall), will lead to a need for tuckpointing and detail work on the full wall face every 5 – 10 years. For a large 4 flat (3 or 4 sides), this will cost about $10k, so maybe budget $1500 a year or $120 a month for it. I have not had trouble at the coping stone, but did do some supposedly permanent sealing work up there to supposedly ensure that area would never be a problem.
Also, you’re probably just speaking colloquially, but split-face block sealant should be sprayed, not applied by brush.
“I have not had trouble at the coping stone”
You likely have a properly sealed top (impermeable layers of something or other under the stone). Lotso places look like the masons were just building a big retaining wall, and the top seal is mortar, a solid stone, and some waterproofing sprayed on, which is plainly insufficient. Also, too few associations have someon go up on the roof every year to check for broken copings.
I lose this listing after it says “extra wide.” Since it’s so obviously not extra wide, it’s hard to believe anything else the realtor has to say.
Possibly they’re moving because the kids are getting older and they don’t want them to go to Lake View High School. There’s something to be said for getting your children established early with other kids that they’ll go to high school with, so they don’t start out freshman year not knowing anyone. I realize these kids may be a few years away, but it seems prudent to get started.
“I lose this listing after it says “extra wide.” Since it’s so obviously not extra wide, it’s hard to believe anything else the realtor has to say.”
Wider than older contruction, but not extra wide as in greater than 25ft wide. I get both points of view.
Dan #2 is probably right, but that’s kind of dull. How about they’re living their dream of becoming organic farmers in Michigan? Too Oak Park? Maybe a long-running feud with the neighbors in the blue house culminating in a restraining order? Busted for tax evasion and dad’s going to jail?
i agree that not sure what’s happened to this property since 2004 to support the price increase.
@matthewlesko – roscoe village is lakeview – at least this part of the street is. so i don’t get the roscoe village comment? i think that’s a desirable area to live in the city for families. lots of green space nearby (hamlin park, that kiddie park with the water fountain), close to trains, safe, etc.
@looking to buy – why is that relevant?
1) I see three kids, two of which appear to be boys, crammed into a tight house with no yard. They need a yard, room to breathe;
2) Look at the 2000 price and that’s all you need to know about where prices are headed in RV.
“2) Look at the 2000 price and that’s all you need to know about where prices are headed in RV.”
This place would be a steal at anything that starts with a 7. Try to stick to what you know when giving advice.
“roscoe village is lakeview – at least this part of the street is”
It’s NorthCenter, without a doubt.
Want to call everything from Diversey to Montrose bt Ashland and Damen “West Lakeview” I won’t argue, but the only way that anything west of Raveswood is “lakeview” is by the township.
“ Look at the 2000 price and that’s all you need to know about where prices are headed in RV.”
“This place would be a steal at anything that starts with a 7. Try to stick to what you know when giving advice.”
Maybe a steal for the seller, what are your qualifications again?
It’s a steal today at $799,999 but just wait. Most suburbs that are the RV, or any suburb outside of the City of Chicago where this nice family can find a yard are mostly already at 2000 or *better* pricing. Because ultimately, that’s RV’s competition – the suburbs, not LP, or NC or Lincoln Sq. They have a name for buyers who pay more than 2004 prices – they’re called ‘greater fools’. There aren’t many of them left.
“JJJ (June 15, 2012, 1:10 pm)
“2) Look at the 2000 price and that’s all you need to know about where prices are headed in RV.”
This place would be a steal at anything that starts with a 7. Try to stick to what you know when giving advice.”
“Most buyers will also want 4 bedrooms up in this size property and price range. Certainly at $950k list or above only 3 up would kill it.”
Do you really think you can get 4 bedrooms up for this price? I don’t even know how four bedrooms would fit on one floor on a typical Chicago lot, would they need to be pretty small?
Also, note that another very similar property is listed at $950,000 right across the street. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1908-W-Roscoe-St-Chicago-IL-60657/2118837543_zpid/
Rachel,
You must be new. “another very similar property is LISTED…” stop right there. Show me what CLOSED and then you have an argument. And not what closed in 2002-2008
I didn’t mean to be arguing that $950,000 is the right price, I just think it is interesting that two similar properties are listed for a $50,000 difference at the same time. I’m not sure which one is right.
I would be very, very surprised if that 950k listing went anywhere close to that. Kitchens and baths need updating, one of those bedrooms isn’t really a bedroom, a second is very oddly shaped. I do like the general feel of that house more than the one posted here, though.
when you have 1920s construction vs very cheaply done 1996 construction, go with the 1920 construction everyday
“Most suburbs that are the RV, or any suburb outside of the City of Chicago where this nice family can find a yard are mostly already at 2000 or *better* pricing. ”
A totally turnkey place in a burb that would satisfy the buy in RV sort?
anon(tfo) you know there is a ban on suburban listings.
but bans are meant to be broken
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Glenview/4311-Crescent-Ln-60026/home/13799341
“Show me what CLOSED ”
You should do your research first.
1938 Cornelia, Dec-11, $955.
3447 Hoyne, Nov-11, $910
3453 Leavitt, Sep-11, $880
2125 Melrose, Apr-12, $888
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Northbrook/3711-Pebble-Beach-Rd-60062/home/12584116
+1, and of course, why does it actually matter. It isn’t like city services are noticeably better a block or two either east or west of Ravenswood.
“It’s NorthCenter, without a doubt.
Want to call everything from Diversey to Montrose bt Ashland and Damen “West Lakeview” I won’t argue, but the only way that anything west of Raveswood is “lakeview” is by the township.”
“but bans are meant to be broken”
That’s at the 2002 price. Show me the “below 2000” price place thats turnkey and in a nice enough burb for snotty RV’rs.
Also, that place needs a new master bath (ie, not one from 1988) and every room needs paint. Show me the place that needs *less* work than the one they are selling.
“They need a yard, room to breathe.” Are you being sarcastic? These people have an entire city to roam.
Northbrook and Glenview aren’t snooty enough? Did you grow up north or northwest of the city? The biggest a=holes I ever met came from that area.
An entire city to roam, yet not a yard for their children to play. Of course they’re leaving for the suburbs or a suburban like setting, it’s patently obvious to even the most oblivious. The cribs and bunk beds give it away.
“Eric (June 15, 2012, 2:10 pm)
“They need a yard, room to breathe.” Are you being sarcastic? These people have an entire city to roam.”
“Northbrook and Glenview aren’t snooty enough?”
They’re fine, just reiterating the requirement since your first attempt ignored two of the three requirements:
Prestige burb
Less work to be done than in house for sale
Asking price below 2000 price.
OK I’ll admit right *now* it’s hard to find a property in downers grove, northbrook, or glenview for less than the 2004 price that isn’t already under contract. There, I’ll admit it. God damn it.
““They need a yard, room to breathe.” Are you being sarcastic? These people have an entire city to roam.”
The six year old should be wandering the city by himself?
“OK I’ll admit right *now* it’s hard to find a property in downers grove, northbrook, or glenview for less than the 2004 price that isn’t already under contract. There, I’ll admit it. God damn it.”
And ditto turnkey(ish) sfhs in the green zone. If they wanted a contract next week, they could list under their 04 purchase price. They’re plainly not in that sort of distress.
“Do you really think you can get 4 bedrooms up for this price? I don’t even know how four bedrooms would fit on one floor on a typical Chicago lot, would they need to be pretty small?”
You can definitely find them – probably more so a year ago than now. I don’t see a ton right now but they are definitely available. It’s on the line – from $950k and up, I think that a lot of the properties of this vintage and this quality of finishes, even in good neighborhoods with good schools, will have 4 bedrooms up, often with 3 floors above grade, bigger zoning, or larger lots. From $800k on down it’s harder to find such a property but you see them now and then.
I’m not up to speed on this stuff, but I think RT3.5 zoning on a standard lot allows for a floor area of around 1650 square feet on each of 2 floors, so carving 4 reasonable bedrooms and two baths out of that is pretty doable. If you do 3 stories above grade it’s even easier to have nice layouts. However, large parts of Roscoe Village are, I think, RT3, so it’s tougher to do then. You probably have to find an RT 3.5 neighborhood. I’m not familiar with the other zoning, and remember that it’s not impossible to get variances.
“OK I’ll admit right *now* it’s hard to find a property in downers grove, northbrook, or glenview for less than the 2004 price that isn’t already under contract. There, I’ll admit it. God damn it.”
I think @fo would have to accept places that are under contract, though he’ll hold you to your sub 2000 claim.
And downers grove is a bit downmarket, no? Not a prestige burb surely.
‘1) I see three kids, two of which appear to be boys, crammed into a tight house with no yard. They need a yard, room to breathe’
Damn those blasted Chicagoans / Parisians / NYrs / Berliners / insert any world city, and their abusive practice of raising children in apartments or homes without back yards. Imagine how much further western civilization would be advanced if only every innocent child had a back yard. Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a 5k walkathon to me. What color ribbon would you suggest?
Is that a line right out of your new suburban play book HD?
It sure wasn’t for the years Matlak was alderman, anyway. He regularly used to crow about how he put through zoning upgrades so “a long-time resident family could do a bedroom addition and not have to leave the neighborhood.”
That never quite added up when the properties were then torn down and replaced with the giant condos of course.
“it’s not impossible to get variances.”
Thanks JJJ. Would that mean that the home would have almost no backyard and/or front yard? I agree that some of the bigger homes on standard Chicago lots might have 4 bedrooms up, but some of those seem to take up almost the entire lot (except the garage) and leave very little room for a backyard.
I actually think this reflects changes in parenting generally. In the 70s, my friends and I would roam freely all over our neighborhood, and no one batted an eye. Now almost nobody does this, even in the suburbs – it’s nice to be able to have some space for the kids to play outside where you can still see them that’s considered “safe.” Not saying this is right or wrong, but I think generally parents are way more uptight about this stuff than they used to be. Having outdoor space that’s reserved for your family and separate from the public is a big positive for parents.
“Damn those blasted Chicagoans / Parisians / NYrs / Berliners / insert any world city, and their abusive practice of raising children in apartments or homes without back yards.”
“And downers grove is a bit downmarket, no? Not a prestige burb surely.”
Have you seen downers grove? Look at the new homes they’re building there for sale in the $500’s and up.
“when you have 1920s construction vs very cheaply done 1996 construction, go with the 1920 construction everyday”
And twice on Sunday.
Your comment has got to be one of the goofiest things I’ve ever heard in a long time.
In north korea they raise children in 2 bedroom flats yet in subsaharan africa they raise children in tents and let them roam free everywhere.
But we don’t live in those places, we live in Chicagoland where there is an abundance of single family homes in yards everywhere except for a handful of pockets of wealth near the lake.
It’s amazing how there are all these amazing suburban schools filled with children, filled I tell you filled with children!
The ‘suburbs’ isn’t my book by any stretch of the imagination, remember I’ve lived in teh city half my life – but the $899,999 house with no yard in congested roscoe village vs. my near suburban home on a small lot (that is larger than a double city lot btw) is a no brainer, really.
“jay (June 15, 2012, 2:32 pm)
’1) I see three kids, two of which appear to be boys, crammed into a tight house with no yard. They need a yard, room to breathe’
Damn those blasted Chicagoans / Parisians / NYrs / Berliners / insert any world city, and their abusive practice of raising children in apartments or homes without back yards. Imagine how much further western civilization would be advanced if only every innocent child had a back yard. Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a 5k walkathon to me. What color ribbon would you suggest?
Is that a line right out of your new suburban play book HD?
just from the outside picture, i thought of this one, which i know is 4 miles west and in Iowa as far as most of you are concerned
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3656-N-Long-Ave-60641/home/13462586
to save $425K, i’d buy it as long as I could get the builder to give me more of a backyard than the model pictures indicate because as MH pointed out, and I know from my nephews, you need a yard for young children to expend energy and going to a park isn’t always an option.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Downers-Grove/1811-Elmore-Ave-60515/home/18027438
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Downers-Grove/6919-Churchill-Ct-60516/home/18011592
this is the 03 price but still a better value.
Does anyone know what an “orange tagged” house means in Chicago?
Thank you! I can’t find anything on Google.
Deborah
Icarus – That far west you’re most likely to hear a slavic based rather than germanic based language. ie. not as many native english speakers as I prefer.
“Would that mean that the home would have almost no backyard and/or front yard?”
No, the zoning is pretty specific about that, too. The zoning is not too hard to understand if you want to dig through the details and the maps – if this subject interests you, take a look.
homedelete — I’m first generation Polish so I’m fine with that. Although since I don’t speak Polish fluently, i’m technically American of Polish Decent.
“but the $899,999 house with no yard in congested roscoe village vs. my near suburban home on a small lot (that is larger than a double city lot btw) is a no brainer, really.”
No particular great offense intended, but it’s an easy decision to make when one isn’t an option for you. There’s no question that there are still plenty of people who choose to spend twice as much as you did to live in Roscoe Village in a house like the subject property, instead of in a suburb in a smaller property.
There’s no shame in buying where you can afford or buying a place in the suburbs which is much cheaper than you can afford in the city, because you want to. You’re so unsympathetic a character because your class envy and professional jealousy present as derision of anyone so foolish as to have more money than you or to make different choices from those you have made.
Jjj you have no idea what options I have but I do know this option is moronic. Again look at the 2000 price. That’s where this is headed after the spring bounce is finished.
For 7 months out of the year it’s too cold to get much use out of the yard, except for building the occasional snowman in the winter. I’m not sure if it’s worth going to the suburbs for the yard. Plus, this house has a front hard with enough space for a snowman.
“homedelete (June 15, 2012, 2:43 pm) http://www.redfin.com/IL/Downers-Grove/1811-Elmore-Ave-60515/home/18027438”
Whoever buys this dog is going to learn much more than they would like about Dryvit over the next however long they own the house. Modern Tudor my ass.
it’s not as practical to have your kids in the front yard as the back since the kitchen usually has a window to the backyard. Which is where most people spend their time versus the “fronch” room.
“Plus, this house has a front hard with enough space for a snowman.”
You never played outside in the snow as a kid?
The new house in the suburbs is probably more than 18 feet wide I imagine.
I like my neighbors to be English speaking I have a little polish decent mixed into my wasp last heritage too but it was never pushed much
“it’s not as practical to have your kids in the front yard as the back since the kitchen usually has a window to the backyard. Which is where most people spend their time versus the “fronch” ”
On the stoop, drinkin beers. Not quite the OBPL of white wine spritzers or vintage bourdeaux or whatever (in between trips to the Chateaux), but good enough.
Ackpth! As Bill the Cat would say. Sister in law moved out to like 6000 W. Belmont, and god-a-mighty is that the worst goddamned commute to get ANYWHERE I have ever experienced. I’d go with Berwyn before I’d ever get myself that land-locked and distant from both the train and the highway.
“http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3656-N-Long-Ave-60641/home/13462586”
“Northbrook and Glenview aren’t snooty enough? Did you grow up north or northwest of the city? The biggest a=holes I ever met came from that area.”
LOL! you’re right about that, but these people aren’t “snooty”, they’re just pissed they not successful enough for Glencoe or Northfield etc. that why they’re a-holes and surly. But anon(tfo) is right that your west NBK and Glenview choices, esp. that hideous 1980s jap palace located on a street named “pebble beach”, are not comps to RV.
Wow HD- that is one of the most hideous homes I have ever seen, great find!
HD, you’re well on the way to a new career as a contributor on clio’s site, exurbancribsharter.com .
Anon asked me to
“Anon asked me to”
I asked you to show us a turnkey house, in a prestige burb, for under the 2000 price. You failed. Three times.
If anon asked you to jump off a bridge, would you do it?
in what may be a CC first, you can see the realtor in the bathroom photo of the NBK house.
“I asked you to show us a turnkey house, in a prestige burb, for under the 2000 price. You failed. Three times.”
Oh shit, you let the genie out of the bottle!
Aren’t there some parks/playgrounds/schoolyards within easy walking distance from here? Most kids would prefer going to a public park with their pals over staying in the backyard anyway.
And why would teens in this name have to go to LVH? There’s also Lane and (for Catholics) Gordon.
“And why would teens in this name have to go to LVH? There’s also Lane”
For like the hundredth time, CTG/LL, Lane is only slightly easier to get in to than Whitney Young (at least living in Tier 4). Saying “why not Lane” is like saying why not Dartmouth (because it is easier to get into than Harvard).
“Saying “why not Lane” is like saying why not Dartmouth (because it is easier to get into than Harvard).”
I once had a strategy professor in undergrad (which was not a top 50 school) telling us to be ready to move around the country for opportunities and that it was common in places like Dartmouth for grads to earn a decent wage consulting so it should be for us, too.
I had to inform him in his office hours McKinsey wasn’t recruiting on campus, but Enterprise Rent a Car was. So his advice was a little, half-baked.
It was then I knew anyone can really become a professor. Its not that hard.
FWIW….we have a nice sized yard and a rooftop deck on our garage, which is nearly exclusively for growing veggies, etc. We went less on the house so we could have both of these options. We have a dog and kids.
Know how much the kiddos play in the yard? Very little…. They are out front nearly 90% of the time with the other kids on the block, while the parents are on the stoops (yes drinking, wine beer etc)
We enjoy nearly nightly dinners in the backyard all summer, but for fun, the kids love the front. There are a few people with double lots on the block and guess what?! Their kids are out front like the rest of em.
Also, JJJ, I know at least 100 or so people in teh city Northside with single family homes and I’d say maybe 5 of them have 4 bedrooms upstairs.
“For 7 months out of the year it’s too cold to get much use out of the yard, except for building the occasional snowman in the winter. ”
Why does everyone think we’re huddled inside for the entire year? I don’t get it. I’m outside grilling and enjoying the weather until at least Thanksgiving (ever remember snow on Halloween? Of course not. November 1st- yes. Oct 31st- no.) It’s actually pretty rare to even have much snowfall by Thanksgiving. One or two inches here or there. I think the largest snowfall ever on Thanksgiving was like 4 inches.
So let’s go with December to March as the “bad” months. That is FOUR months- not seven. For goodness sakes. We’re not Minneapolis.
“No particular great offense intended, but it’s an easy decision to make when one isn’t an option for you. There’s no question that there are still plenty of people who choose to spend twice as much as you did to live in Roscoe Village in a house like the subject property, instead of in a suburb in a smaller property.”
In HD’s defense- I think the real comparison isn’t between the property he bought and this Roscoe Village house- but the property he bought and a similarly priced home in East Humboldt Park or the Little Italy neighborhood or Bronzeville or certain parts of Uptown. Why spend $400,000 there when you can get something quite nice in the inner suburbs for the same or less (and less crime, better schools, similar commute etc. etc.) The suburbs really are where the much better deals are.
But then, I’m biased (having just spent the evening at a friend’s new house in Oak Park sitting on their front porch taking in the scene.)
“Does anyone know what an “orange tagged” house means in Chicago?”
Can anyone answer Deborah’s question?
“And downers grove is a bit downmarket, no? Not a prestige burb surely.”
You haven’t been there lately- obviously.
It’s not “downmarket” if you’re on the north side (near the train and the downtown.) Ritzy, ritzy, ritzy.
“Aren’t there some parks/playgrounds/schoolyards within easy walking distance from here? Most kids would prefer going to a public park with their pals over staying in the backyard anyway.”
Nobody uses the parks in the suburbs, they’re empty. You’re a weirdo if you do, kinda like being a pedestrian across a major suburban intersection, people think you’re a deranged loser or something.
“There are a few people with double lots on the block and guess what?! Their kids are out front like the rest of em.”
“Know how much the kiddos play in the yard? Very little…. They are out front nearly 90% of the time.”
This all sound good and all, but it must pale in comparison to the ‘burbs in the seventies etc. when the action you describe would’ve been 5x more, with more freedom, land, open space, bikes, yards, etc. I’m not sure why the suburbs have fallen out of favor so much for parents. Surely, the scene you describe cannot even touch what existed in its suburban past equivalent.
“orange tagged house”
Historical preservation stuff. Start here: http://www.cityofchicago.org/city/en/depts/dcd/supp_info/demolition_delay.html
Orange buildings, outside of historic districts, get torn down all the time, so not anything to sweat too much.
It depends what suburbs you’re in. Te neighborhood parks seem pretty busy when I’ve bee there and the community pools are packed. In plainfield the 15 min ride to the park seems a bit excessive but I’m only a 3 min drive or 10 min walk or 5 min bike ride.
“Surely, the scene you describe cannot even touch what existed in its suburban past equivalent.”
Well, with 40 kids on the block it’s pretty well busy all the time, Kick the can is a pretty frequent game for the 8 plus set and bikes are always popular. It’s pretty well an unofficial day camp much of the summer. Also, plenty of surrounding blocks with lots of action.
Neighborhood parks are always busy in my part of the North Shore. I’ve lived here for 10 years and I can’t think of any major park around here that goes unused, nor do I or others think people are strange for using them. Public beaches are also popular.
In our North Shore neighborhood, most of the kids play in front of their homes. Weeks can go by without us using our back yard. Our kids go back and forth to their friends’ homes across the street and around the neighborhood without supervision, and this is very common around here. Most kids walk to and from school without their parents. There’s plenty of freedom. I’m not sure which suburbs helmethofer is referring to.
If nobody uses the backyards, then maybe this is a steal at $202 psf, despite the tracks?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Winnetka/70-Warwick-Rd-60093/home/13783360
That’s one expensive, but very ugly, paver patio driveway.
If you dont use your back yard if you have one, you are 100% a fool. and should stop posting here as anything you say has now become an always invalid point.
I use every bit of my front back and side yard, we also use the gigantic park by us too. you need to take a new job where you dont have to work as many hours so you can enjoy the property you have.
“Nobody uses the parks in the suburbs, they’re empty. You’re a weirdo if you do, kinda like being a pedestrian across a major suburban intersection, people think you’re a deranged loser or something.”
hey i saw some kids slacklining in a Winnetka park last month. but correct, i never see anybody walking in the burbs, only time i see people in burban parks is for a soccer game, or an old couple sitting on a bench. Its like a fricken ghost town on the weekend on suburban streets. its a sad sight to see some beautiful tree lined streets with nice architecture and nobody enjoying a stroll.
OK, Groove, thanks for the respect.
We do use our backyard; our kids, however, don’t see it as a prime place to play. They’d rather be out front with their friends. That was the point I was trying to emphasize.
My wife loves to garden, and she’s planted beautiful gardens out back and spends a lot of time out there. So maybe my first post wasn’t entirely accurate.
“We do use our backyard; our kids, however, don’t see it as a prime place to play. They’d rather be out front with their friends. That was the point I was trying to emphasize.”
IIRC from my childhood, I played in the backyard until I was old enough to be out front, then my curfew was when the street lights came on. Of course that was a different time and depending on your nabe, it might not be as feasible these days. I suspect there are still blocks in non GZ hoods where this is the case.
“Also, JJJ, I know at least 100 or so people in teh city Northside with single family homes and I’d say maybe 5 of them have 4 bedrooms upstairs.”
That might be true, but that’s different than what I was saying, which is that in the above $900k price range in the current market for SFHs on the North side, 4 bedrooms up is something people are looking for or expecting. These are the $1.1M+ houses from 2005-2008.
Thanks Trudi. I agree with your comments about 4 bedrooms up. I just don’t think there are many single family homes with 4 bedrooms up and a normal-sized front and backyard on a standard Chicago lot. I don’t see how you could fit four bedrooms without making them super small. I know I didn’t see any when I was house shopping. I know there are the giant mansion-type houses that probably have 4 up, but I think they really sacrifice their backyard to get to it. I hope I’m right, because one day we will sell our house and we only have 3 up and one in the basement!
Trudi’s comment is spot on. We recently spent 4 months looking at single family homes in the $800K-$1.3MM price range and only saw 2 (out of about 60-70) with 4 bedrooms on one floor. Both of those had 2 very, very small bedrooms that were a deal killer for most buyers. There were also a handful of places with 2 BR each on the 2nd and 3rd floors, but that’s not what most buyers I know would find desirable. Based on our experience, the only way to get 4 decent-sized bedrooms up was to go well outside the GZ or up to the $1.5-$1.7 range.
“OK, Groove, thanks for the respect.”
your panties giving you a wedgie? it wasnt directed to you. I am a huge front stoop sitter as i relay here many times over. but when i have a bbq party (which seems like every week now) its in my back yard. when the kid has a play date its in the back yard. when its clean up time in the kitchen the kid is on the back deck with his Ipad or on his swing set and we have full view of his doings.
I will sit on the front porch, but once i put the squirt to bed i will be sitting on the back deck until my bed time.
i personally could never not have a back yard even if its only a 20x 20 patch.
“type houses that probably have 4 up, but I think they really sacrifice their backyard to get to it.”
a pet peeve of mine, is the building to lot line and having a gator deck, all to get ridiculous sqft on the interior. if i wanted a sad deck looking at an alley i would buy a condo/TH. how fat and consumerous are we that we need a 21×17 master bedroom with his an her walk in closest.
“is the building to lot line and having a gator deck, all to get ridiculous sqft on the interior. if i wanted a sad deck looking at an alley i would buy a condo/TH. ”
I agree with the building to lot lines. A back and side yard to give some space between homes is a must.
How do you feel about garage roof top decks?
“how fat and consumerous are we that we need a 21×17 master bedroom with his an her walk in closest.”
as I understand it, “his and her walk in closets” can save a marriage
“the building to lot line”
When people say this, do they mean building as close as permitted per zoning, or getting variance, or whatev it’s called, to build almost literally at the lot line?
Was reading the zoning regs for entertainment. Couple of stupid Qs. What does the front yard setback mean? Is that where the yard ends and your house starts? Same for rear yard setback?
And given that all single family zoning seems to have a minimum open back yard requirement, when I see places that have an attached garage with what seem like zero yard, that means they’ve gotten a variance?
http://www.clvn.org/pdf/zoningCodeSummary.pdf
“Was reading the zoning regs for entertainment. Couple of stupid Qs. What does the front yard setback mean? Is that where the yard ends and your house starts? Same for rear yard setback?”
Yes, basically.
“And given that all single family zoning seems to have a minimum open back yard requirement, when I see places that have an attached garage with what seem like zero yard, that means they’ve gotten a variance?”
Newly built (ie, since the ’04 code revision)? Or slightly older? New ones would need a variance or fit within an exception.
Don’t worry Rachel….
To get the 4 bedrooms up…you need to be in the 1.8 and higher range if you are looking in a GZ neighborhood.
Those in the 900 range are not expecting 4 bedrooms up…
“Its like a fricken ghost town on the weekend on suburban streets.”
Away at their lake houses? On vacations? Kids away at camp? Down in the city for the day for a ball game/shopping/air-conditioned activities/concert/etc.?
Was in the burbs yesterday. Noticed lots of people enjoying the lakefront parks as we made our way through Evanston. Some of the SFHs along that stretch aren’t too shabby.
“Yes, basically.”
Thanks. The thing that’s confusing to me is why no min setback, only a max. You can build as close to the street as you want? Which seems like potentially a big FU to the street and neighbors. And why does anyone care if your rear yard is set way back from I assume the rear of the lot? Again, seems like the concern would be more with not enough of a setback (which I realize is subject to limits as a result of FAR and min yard size, but still, why not address directly). Which makes me wonder if I’m reading the wrong way, but I don’t think so.
“Newly built (ie, since the ’04 code revision)? Or slightly older? New ones would need a variance or fit within an exception.”
Not sure. Possibly older than 04. Was a v idle question, I don’t even have a specific place in mind, just think I’ve seen some of these in btown in the past.
Groove,
From your description, I’m guessing your kid(s) is younger than mine. Back yards are great for the little ones because they’re locked in and can’t get to the street. Once they’re older, they need more freedom, and you don’t have to be watching them every minute.
Sort of – as groove inferred, when they get older it’s nice to be able to have an outdoors BBQ/party and for the teens to be able to hang out without actually being all up in the adults’ space.
“Once they’re older, they need more freedom, and you don’t have to be watching them every minute.”
“To get the 4 bedrooms up…you need to be in the 1.8 and higher range if you are looking in a GZ neighborhood.”
I might have been a little aggressive with my statement about what buyers “expect,” but you’re totally wrong, these were part of my personal “unicorn criteria.” The basic criteria were large SFH, excellent AAS (Bell, Blaine, Burley, Coonley, mostly, we considered a few others), 4+ bedrooms up, laundry up, built or renovated in the last 10 years (or excellent older reno with newish mechanicals), could get closing price to at or under $900k (so basically list of $1 million or less), plus a bunch of other stuff. Looking at my trusty ream of spreadsheets, we viewed around 20 properties within the last two years that met all of the criteria I listed except for laundry up, for which we were willing to settle for the possibility of adding a laundry up. I spent an ASSLOAD of time going through listings and seeing properties. I won’t quibble with you about what “buyers” expect, but I know what I expected, and it was 100% doable. I also spent some time tracking the properties we followed, and generally 4 bedrooms up seemed pretty desirable, those tended to sell quicker than others.
This is what you get for $1.8 million in good neighborhoods with good schools: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1936-W-Grace-St-60613/home/12564250 . Not really sure if that is 5 up or 6 up or whatever, but to say you have to be at $1.8 million to get 4 bedrooms up is absurd.
“To get the 4 bedrooms up…you need to be in the 1.8 and higher range if you are looking in a GZ neighborhood.”
“I might have been a little aggressive with my statement about what buyers “expect,” but you’re totally wrong, these were part of my personal “unicorn criteria.””
Seems to me you two are about equally wrong. Plenty of $1.0 places with only 3 bds up; I would guess the substantial majority of places at $1.0 with your other criteria at $1.0ish list have only 3 up (may depend on the specific GZ hood). So only 3 bds at $1.0 is far from deal killer.
But certainly there are many places that have 4 up at $1.0 and (again may depend on specific hood) maybe a majority of places at $1.5 will have 4 bds up, well before the suggested $1.8 threshold.
“The thing that’s confusing to me is why no min setback, only a max. You can build as close to the street as you want?”
That’s a diff section, and it depends on the neighbors (assuming sfh zoning)–can’t be closer to the street than the neighbors, on average, calculated somehow or other (not looking it up right now).
Backyard is a minimum distance, but there are a bunch of ways to have it reduced. You’d see no backyard in B’town on the short lots at least because the short lots get special treatment. Other stuff prob got approved under old code.
“The basic criteria were large SFH, excellent AAS (Bell, Blaine, Burley, Coonley, mostly, we considered a few others), 4+ bedrooms up, laundry up, built or renovated in the last 10 years (or excellent older reno with newish mechanicals), could get closing price to at or under $900k (so basically list of $1 million or less), ”
How big were the Master, 3d and 4th bedrooms? and is the 2d closer in size to the master or the 4th?
Seems to me that the “cheaper” 4 ups either have 2 small bedrooms (and a quite big 2d), or a small-ish master, or a really small 4th. Assuming that they also still have at least 20′ from back ouf house (ot incl. deck) to garage.
“That’s a diff section, and it depends on the neighbors (assuming sfh zoning)–can’t be closer to the street than the neighbors, on average, calculated somehow or other (not looking it up right now).”
Thanks, took quick look. I think the summary, which I’ve seen in a number of places, is at least misleading and prob wrong. The actual regulations make more sense.
“How big were the Master, 3d and 4th bedrooms? and is the 2d closer in size to the master or the 4th?”
We didn’t automatically fail anything, but I don’t recall if some of the places we might not have liked might have had something 12 by 10 or so. That probably would only have worked for us if there was another good space, perhaps in the basement, to be an office or guest room. Some were smaller than others. I also included in those 15 or so places we toured a few properties which were dormered, which was technically for me a unicorn criteria fail but which we entertained if it would have been the lesser-used rooms or if the dormering wasn’t too sharp and angle or low a ceiling. In the place we bought, all but 1 of the 4 bedrooms up is the full width of the floorplate, so about 18 feet wide, but that’s really only possible with a 3rd floor (which there are a lot of in the parts of Lakeview that are RT3.5).
“Assuming that they also still have at least 20? from back ouf house (ot incl. deck) to garage.”
I think that the 2004 code changes really changed the front and back setbacks and open space requirements, so a lot of bigger properties permitted before than don’t comply with these requirements.
“I think that the 2004 code changes really changed the front and back setbacks and open space requirements, so a lot of bigger properties permitted before than don’t comply with these requirements.”
Agreed.
“all but 1 of the 4 bedrooms up is the full width of the floorplate, so about 18 feet wide, but that’s really only possible with a 3rd floor ”
Or tandem bedrooms, which is major fail.
Yes, 3d floor makes 4 decent-sized up bedrooms easy. Not much selection in 3 floor, sub-$1mm, recently-reno’d (or new), non-location-challenged SFHs in BBBC attendance area in teh last few years. Obv. not *none* but not much.
And, even then, you have places like 1539 W George, which has a third floor, but still has an 11×9 bedroom and a master that is “only” 17×14 (or 18×13, depending which you choose).