What’s Selling? Single Family Homes in Roscoe Village: 3308 N. Bell
This 4-bedroom single family home at 3308 N. Bell in Roscoe Village went under contract in only 10 days.
The house has a renovated kitchen with cherry cabinets, granite countertops and stainless steel appliances that is open to the large family room.
3 out of the 4 bedrooms are all on the second level. There’s a big deck on the back of the house that leads to a leafy backyard.
The house has central air and a 2.5 car garage.
It seems to have it all and Roscoe Village is “hot.”
Was the price right?
Mario Greco at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See more pictures and floorplan here.
See the property website here.
3308 N. Bell: 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2 car garage
- Sold in April 1992 for $119,000
- Sold in August 1995 for $291,000
- Sold in March 2001 for $522,000
- Sold in June 2004 for $649,000
- Sold in August 2006 for $728,000
- Originally listed in September 2009 for $729,000
- Under contract in ten days
- Taxes of $7798
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 20×16
- Bedroom #2: 13×11
- Bedroom #3: 11×9
- Bedroom #4: 20×10 (lower level)
With only one bathrrom upstairs, I’m a little surprised. But I’m not surprised that it moved quickly at that price, in that location.
how is that Audubon school?
Bell is the district to be in in that part of the city and it’s only a few blocks away. I would be curious to see what price it sold for as 700-ish is market for a house that size in Bell (with a 30×125 lot), but I don’t think the same would be true South of Addison.
My only concern with Bell (and the others) is whether CPS funding gets killed given the recession. Classroom sizes are already stretched.
Seller had two mortgages $417k and $273 for a total of about $690k from a selling price of $728k (95% financing)! The seller apparently put some money into the property; all said and done he’s making $1,000 (728—>729). See, everything is fine and dandy in RV. Real estate continues to rise even without bubble financing!
“My only concern with Bell (and the others) is whether CPS funding gets killed given the recession.”
That should be a worry with suburban districts, too. But Daley isn’t about to let the “good” schools suffer (it’s one of his “accomplishments”), so what’s more likely to happen is the bad schools get worse. And more need to fundraise from the parents. But the crowding issue is genuine.
Audubon has a strong parent organization and is “good” for the younger classes; notsosure about older grades, currently, but that will work its way through.
“all said and done he’s making $1,000 (728—>729).”
We have no idea what the closing price is; could be that the sellers “get it” and realized that a 95% offer today is better for them than a 100% offer in 8 months.
“seller apparently put some money into the property”
Are you saying seller did some reno? Based on what, exactly?
“all said and done he’s making $1,000 (728—>729)
Assuming it sells for ask b/c it went under K in 10 days, of course, we won’t know for certain until it closes.
“seller apparently put some money into the property”
The Pella Windows lien recorded against the property.
“Are you saying seller did some reno? Based on what, exactly?”
I’ll answer my own question–lien and release recorded against the prop.
But a little more digging shows that the seller grossed $80k+ (prob. $100k+, based on buyer’s mortgages, but the deed is $0) on his prior place. So, the 2d may have been purchase financing, or it may have been reno financing, or some combo thereof.
Either way, net-net owning this home will be notsogood on a $$ basis for our seller.
““seller apparently put some money into the property”
The Pella Windows lien recorded against the property.”
The release is more telling–the involvement of Da Vinci means it was likely a fairly substantial reno.
Audubon is a good school. My friend teaches at Blaine and she said Audobon has a lot of parent support and the school is up there with Blaine and Bell. The parents provide a lot of support to those schools and use their resources within the community for fundraising. Does anyone know anything about Coonley or Courtney Language Arts Academy?
“See, everything is fine and dandy in RV. Real estate continues to rise even without bubble financing!”
Further proof you don’t overleverage something that isn’t ‘quality’
Buy in a good hood now, you’ll be fine. Buy in a crappy hood now, and suffer the consequences.
“Does anyone know anything about Coonley”
Was the toughest gifted program to get into this year. Turning over through the younger classes–K-3 or 4 are mostly “new” cps kids. Strong parent support, which should only grow. Nice outdoor space since the reno. Strong principal.
What about Ravenswood Elementary?
Yeah, had to be renovated. Between purchase and sale it picked up another bedroom.
Nice area there and south. There are a few SFHs for the price of a townhome.
“Yeah, had to be renovated. Between purchase and sale it picked up another bedroom.”
Basement room, most likely. Maybe the prior seller didn’t list that as a BR?
“Nice area there and south”
Not a fan of the area south of School and west of Leavitt, but that’s being picky.
RE – got a magnet cluster status recently. New principal too – she was a principal at Bell or Blaine before Ravenswood. So hopefully lot of good changes in school in the near future.
That’s all I know. Probably anon-tfo knows a lot more:).
Well, that’s what’s odd. The extra bedroom appears on the 2nd floor now.
I’m glad HD showed this wealth for the mirage it was. If the seller really had any sort of wealth and wasn’t a debtslave, they would’ve financed at 80% LTV with one mortgage to get the best terms.
What I’m curious about now–how did the buyer finance? They must really believe this is worth three quarters of a million dollars or unaware that this seller would’ve paid any price for the property back in 2006 so long as a loan was made available to them.
“they would’ve financed at 80% LTV with one mortgage to get the best terms”
Uh, no, that would not have been the best terms available at the time of purchase. 80% LTV would have been a jumbo; there’s no jumbo mortgage on the property.
Also, it *really* looks like (notwithstanding HD’s blindspot on this) the 2d was a HELOC that was used to pay for the reno–if the seller was such a debtslave, how would he have financed a substantial reno w/ cash?–so he *did* take out a mortgage on the best available terms for the max he was allowed–the $417k first has got to be uber-cheap.
Which doesn’t mean that the wealth was real, but that’s a different issue.
“The extra bedroom appears on the 2nd floor now.”
Was the 3d in the basement before? Or did the 3d get converted into the dining room or something?
Suffice to say, I think he wicked overpaid in 2006, and $522 was too much in 2001 (altho that’s what houses like this were going for then–I know b/c we looked at a number of them; funky small-ish SFHs in various states of not-very-updated for ~$500k. Crazy).
“New principal too – she was a principal at Bell or Blaine before Ravenswood.”
Assistant Principal, I assume, but don’t know. She certainly wasn’t *the* principal at Bell (he’s been there for 10+ years), and I doubt Blaine would let a good principal go except to retirement. But change for the better in CPS (at least at Elem) is pretty much all about the Principal, so I’d take that as a good sign for Ravenswood–along with the *fact* that there are now dozens of families who will need to make the best of it, b/c they can’t sell their houses. Strong principal + motivated parents = improvement in CPS.
anon(tfo) the line of credit was opened the same day as the first mortgage. maybe it was a 2nd mortgage to finance the property, maybe it wasn’t. maybe he got a big bonus at work one year (he could be a rich trader or something) and used that for the renovation. Who knows. I guess we’ll never know unless you somehow sneak on to the 2nd floor of Chicago title on the day this closes and take a look at the HUD.
Cute little house, still dont like open kitchen fad. a beautiful place, sweet yard, a really great place to call home for years.
the scary thing is roscoe village is commanding a premium like this?
“the scary thing is roscoe village is commanding a premium like this?”
Its where all the LP house-mommys drag their hubbies after a kid pops out. They can’t tell all of their sorority sisters, now in their 30s, they still live in Lincoln Park, for christs sake. They might as well still be doing wristband specials and kegstands at the bars Bob hangs out at if that’s the case.
They need to show how much more mature they are by moving to a hood like “Southport Corridor” or Roscoe Village or North Center.
“Who knows.”
That’s my point. You always assume the worst (and often get bent out of shape when someone disagrees), even when there is a reasonable alternative explanation (which there *often* is not; there are plenty of times when it’s clear that the buyer used 95 or 100% financing to acquire the place). In this case, we know he bought this place having made money on his prior place, did a substantial reno, and never refi’d.
“he could be a rich trader”
He’s not. Look it up.
“take a look at the HUD”
Don’t know how that would clear anything up; it’s not like the closing statement would be different if the 2d were used for acquistion $$ v. renovation $$. I agree (and said above) he’s losing money on this.
The HUD would clear up the payoff on the second…was it an untapped line of credit? Did he use only $100k of the $262k? or, was it a completely maxed out line of credit as a second mortgage that was so commonly done during the boom?
“was it a completely maxed out line of credit as a second mortgage ”
It could be completely maxed out and every dime used to do the reno. Or it could have been all acquistion and paid down via big bonus $$. How you going to figure that one out?
I doubt it was *all* reno $$–I suspect it was both acquisition $$ and reno $$–but assuming that it was all acquistion $$ when there’s been significant reno done–and no third mortgage or refi of any sort–is not a good assumption.
Bob,
thats some funny stuff there 🙂
i like roscoe village, maybe cause i am a stroller pusher. i like the chicago neighborhood feel it has and the old house stock with the chicago yards.
the premium paid in my mind isnt justifed for the area.
will HD and Anon ever get along:(
What if it was all acquisition, he used the $100k from the previous sale as the renovation money, and he’s bringing his bonus money to the table to close? That’s most likely the case…
Financing issues aside, what did this seller think? At the time he bought, did he think that some granite and a rehab would make this a million dollar house? $769k is a heck of a lot of money, for what is arguably, a ‘house’ similar to what any of us grew up in. Did he believe that a little TLC would make it worth a million in a few years?
HD,
“for what is arguably, a ‘house’ similar to what any of us grew up in…”
“Did he believe that a little TLC would make it worth a million in a few years”
my house is slightly bigger than this and twice the lot, i think an agent would punch me in the eye if i asked him to list it at 800k.
which goes to quoting myself
“the premium paid in my mind isnt justifed for the area”
“for what is arguably, a ‘house’ similar to what any of us grew up in”
No the houses I grew up in were at least twice the size of this one were less than 20 years old each time and cost under 200k each time as well.
“what did this seller think? At the time he bought, did he think that some granite and a rehab would make this a million dollar house?”
That’s the real question, isn’t it? He basically bought a lot for $600k, with a $128k house, made the house into a $300k house and is selling it with a $400k lot. Did he *really* think that land values were going to continue increasing from “way, way too high” toward “wtf” levels?
That said, for some reason, this house has traded at high-for-the-hood for a cottage prices since the 95 sale. Tho the high basement (at least mostly aboveground) is a real plus.
“That’s most likely the case”
Jeebus, you will *never* let your prejudices about this stuff go, even a little, will you?
News Alert!
ROME (AP)—A World Cup swimming event scheduled for Rio de Janeiro next month has been canceled after organizers failed to come up with enough funding.
The announcement comes at a particularly delicate moment, with Rio competing against Chicago, Madrid and Tokyo in Friday’s vote to host the 2016 Summer Olympics.
Looks like Chicago is now the front runner, Bob you must be oh-so happy!
If my wife craps out a kid, and Chicago gets the olympics I’m moving to Phoenix. At least for 300k I can have a sweet house, a pool, and not have to worry about yard work or the god awful Chicago winters.
NEVER!!!!!!!!! And by the way, using god’s name in vain is offensive…even if it’s spelled like it’s pronounced. You wouldn’t go around saying “Allah, you will never”, now would you?
“Jeebus, you will *never* let your prejudices about this stuff go, even a little, will you?””
“using god’s name in vain is offensive”
So is typing it out in full, to some. And not capitalizing it to more. In any case, it’s a substitution word to *avoid* using “G*d’s name”, sort of like gosh.
And tell it to all of the guys named Jesus–or at least the people pissed at them.
“You wouldn’t go around saying “Allah, you will never”, now would you?”
If Islam were the cultural commonality of our American society, then I’m sure I would.
“If my wife craps out a kid”
I thought that was *never* going to happen. Wife having some change of heart?
Love the in depth analysis on seller’s financial situation and capabilities. I thought I was the only one who knew how to do that.
Anyway, I am surprised more people don’t use Illinois land trusts to prevent all the crib chatters of the world from disecting their financial resumes, plus to keep blockshopper at bay if their glossies are online at ABC consulting firm or law firm’s website. Pretty inexpensive and the privacy is well worth it.
“I thought that was *never* going to happen. Wife having some change of heart?”
Accidents happen! (dear god I hope not!)
“I doubt Blaine would let a good principal go except to retirement”
May be they have some type of rotation program at CPS?:)
“JMM on September 29th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Love the in depth analysis on seller’s financial situation and capabilities. I thought I was the only one who knew how to do that. ”
-could someone explain how exactly you look that kind of info up??
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2810
This nifty little tool lets you look up PINs in the recorders and assessor’s office in Cook County. It takes some practice to read the recorder’s office’s title search but look for warranty deeds, mortgages, releases and lis pendens. For properties owned by serial refinancers I often I print out the screen and actually match the releases with the mortgages. You can search the person’s name to see if they have bought another home before selling the current one. People’s income, professions, and the like is usually gleamed from the googles. for example I found out that the seller of the harbor driver property was a professional with an office in the far nw burbs, and putting that together with the cribs and the kids and the outlandish appreciation they are asking, I reasonably assume they want to buy a mcmansion in inverness. Well, maybe not inverness, but they probably want a yard! anon(Tfo) will probably find a way to disagree with my assessment.
You can also view mortgages and usually promissory notes if you: 1) go to the basement of the recorder’s office; 2) open an account with the recorder’s office to download the documents (Expensive) or 3) call your favorite connect at the title company down the block which is basically just an extension of your law firm 😉
The prom notes usually lay out the terms of how toxic the financing is…interest only (which some disagree is not toxic at all: i’m looking at you ze), option arm, balloons, high interest rate subprime, reset & recast schedules, etc. in my experience (and i get many people who disagree with me) the higher the LTV ratio the more toxic the financing. Of course there was always the guy with 100% financing with a 30 year fixed but that was not the norm, it was the exception. it was usually the 80/20 or 80/10 IO w/ teaser rate, prepayment penalties and the like. but that’s just my experience, YMMV..
“#valasko on September 29th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
News Alert!
ROME (AP)—A World Cup swimming event scheduled for Rio de Janeiro…. Looks like Chicago is now the front runner, Bob you must be oh-so happy!”
haven’t seen a cc throwdown in a bit, but back to the Olympics, do you think with a extension of the tax credit/Olympics, construction would increase like during the boom, so that another glut would occur?
Groove how much do you think this property is overvalued? 100K? How much is a good school worth?
BTW I think the Olympics will give Chicago a chance to shine. It maybe argued the money should go to other things but we live in a corporate society, lets take advantage of what little trickle down economics actually contributes. Moreover there really is no impetus to actually contribute to what matters (education, roads, energy, or veterans). Plus Obama will funnel some fed money too.
thanks HD for pointing out the PIN addon (earlier), it made research much easier.
“Groove how much do you think this property is overvalued? 100K? How much is a good school worth?”
a good school is worth extra, but up to a point, when you are talking 300k-500k more for a house in a not the top public school area, then why not look to private school? save money and get a bigger/better place elsewhere in the city?
and when did Audubon become one of the top ten non test in cps school?
its not that i am screaming OVERPRICED, i just havent grasped the concept that this area is commanding such a premium. (i am a tad slow)
albeit NW side, for the price of this place you can get in the Norwood park school and your house will be twice the size, edgebrook school for this price and a larger home, or for half the cost and same size house the oriole park school.
and with all three of those schools are TOP schools the blow away Audubon.
So if some one is shopping homes, has to live Chicago, and schools are #1 on the list then why would someone pay the premium for Audubon?
and just thinking about it theses three areas will only add about 10-12 minutes commute time by train. all walking distance to train.
“So if some one is shopping homes, has to live Chicago, and schools are #1 on the list then why would someone pay the premium for Audubon?”
As you say, there is a premium, and I agree that the premium on *this* place is probably too much, but it’s priced this way b/c of $500k condos and $1.5mm brick SFHs nearby–it’s almost hard-slotted, which is why I wasn’t surprised it sold quickly.
RV and NC have such easy comps, with bad schools, just across the river, since so much of the housing stock is so similar. What would this place cost if it were on Sacramento (with *exactly* the same reno)? $450k, maybe? $350k, or $500k, maybe, too.
Can you justify a $250k-400k premium? Well, ~$50k-100k of it is to live near the Roscoe shops and (sort of) the Brown Line instead of close to Elston and Target and (sort of) the Blue Line (which may or not be worth anything to *you*).
Then, if you have two kids and are thinking private, non-Catholic school as the alternative, that’s 2x$20k+, so $40k per year, or the rough equivalent of a $500k+ increased mortgage.
So, yeah, as compared to private school, it IS “worth” the premium. As compared to CPS on the far NW-side? That’s an entirely different issue I’m not really qualified to answer b/c I’ve never lived on the far NW-side to be able to speak to the actual lifestyle differences.
A comparison may be between the north side neighborhoods with good schools (Bell, Blaine, Burley, etc.) to Wicker Park/Bucktown, which have good albeit somewhat different amenities/atmosphere, but schools that are not nearly so good. So the main difference is the schools. It’s hard to compare houses but I think the premium is on the order of 10 percent for the north side neighborhoods.
Also, some parents I know who live in or are looking at SFHs in Wicker Park/Bucktown plan on seeing if they can get into one of the selective enrollment or good lottery schools. And if not, paying for private school.
Daley said that any budget shortfall from the Olympics would be made up by an increase in local taxes. I can’t wait. It sounds like a nice way for me to transfer a bunch of money to the hotel and tourism industry.
“I’ve never lived on the far NW-side to be able to speak to the actual lifestyle differences”
its pretty close suburban state of mind and lifestyle but still urban enough for your street cred card.
“Then, if you have two kids and are thinking private, non-Catholic school as the alternative, that’s 2x$20k+, so $40k per year, or the rough equivalent of a $500k+ increased mortgage”
i will agree with you sort of even though you attacked me hood.
i was only thinking one sided having only one kid now…having 3 kids would make the premium worth it in Bell, blaine, etc.
Anyone notice what’s going on with this one now? It fell out of contract! Very odd. Went pending on Oct 9, reactivated on Oct 12, price dropped to 649K on Oct 19. It’s a short sale now. Don’t think it was before.
seems like this was owed 689500, so that why, they want the bank to take the hit.
I have seen this, not accusing anybody, but I think its a marketing ploy, to say the ones your watching are selling, etc.