Who Will Be Affected By The “Obamacare Tax” In 2013? 1548 N. Hoyne In Wicker Park
This 2-bedroom at 1548 N. Hoyne in Wicker Park has been on and off the market since 2010.
It recently came back on the market again and the listing says:
“FULL PRICE ONLY! Sale must close by 12/31/12 why, because next day 3.8% Obamacare tax starts and capital gains tax could go up 13%. If buyer wants to pay, close whenever.”
This is the first time I’ve seen a mention of the 3.8% Obamacare tax in a real estate listing.
For those unfamiliar, Obamacare does have a 3.8% medicare tax on investment income which starts in 2013. But it only applies to the following:
- Couples who make more than $250,000 a year
- Individuals who make more than $200,000 a year
Additionally, for couples, the first $500,000 of profit is exempt. For singles, the first $250,000 of profit is exempt.
The exemption is NOT what you sell the property at. It is the profit from the sale.
This building was built in 1999 and has 4 units.
The listing also says that there will be $30,000 worth of work done to the exterior this spring.
I haven’t been able to locate any interior pictures of the unit but it does have central air, washer/dryer in the unit and one parking space.
Will this be the only time we see the Obamacare Medicare tax mentioned in an actual listing?
Jeffery Baker at Direct Access Realty has the listing. See the listing here.
Unit #2: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1250 square feet
- Sold in January 2000 for $316,000
- Originally listed in 2010 for $384,900
- Reduced numerous times
- Was listed in March 2011 at $339,500
- Was listed in October 2012 at $355,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $337,500
- Assessments of $126 a month
- Taxes of $4553
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Assigned parking include
- Bedroom #1: 15×13
- Bedroom #2: 12×10
I’m really not surprised that a seller/seller’s agent who cannot figure out that this is overpriced, apparently also doesn’t understand the Obamacare tax.
“Assessments of $126 a month”
“The listing also says that there will be $30,000 worth of work done to the exterior this spring.”
By who, the Condo Fairy?
Hilarity ensues
Fundamentally and publicly misunderstanding basic financial concepts will get you on the BLACKLIST!!.
This is by far one of the dumbest listings ever. You gotta love the seller demanding full price and promising to take it off the market in a week. Good luck with that!
Good question (above) – who is paying the $30K in spring? Either they are depleting their reserves or (doubtful) the worst unit in the building – the coveted middle unit – is subsidizing the association.
Also not surprising that this realtor is too busy with propaganda to pick up a camera and take some pictures. So. Lame.
You need to live in the house for two years to get the exclusion but even if they didn’t, in the worst case scenerio this person would make a $21,500 profit (if they had made zero improvements) and they’d pay (3.8% X 21,500) = $817 in ObamaCare taxes.
My guess is that seller is moving to Texas.
Idiocy aside, and recognizing that it is no longer summer, they do have a recentish comp, no?
So would Mr. Baker be a Tea-ltor(TM)?
Sorry…
If the owner is worried about the tax hit, then I wonder where they’re getting the first $500k in profit from. Might have profit from multiple RE holdings or stock investments?
Corporate America is moving cash, bonuses, dividends, capital gains etc to 2012 – to avoid Obamacare (and its penalties).
Might as well real estate sellers as well. Any gain will be considered passive income which will most likely add another 3.8% to the taxes paid (depending on the selling price and your income). Assuming a $300k gain (if that is even possible anymore), we are talking an additional tax of $11k. What does the city charge the seller these days?
And people wonder why the real estate prices are still in the dump.
I’m still trying to figure out how $250k in income makes someone rich. Maybe a million, but $250K is only upper middle class for Chicago. What made $250k the magic fairy line?
“I’m still trying to figure out how $250k in income makes someone rich. Maybe a million, but $250K is only upper middle class for Chicago. What made $250k the magic fairy line?”
Is that really you, Todd Henderson? What percentile of income do you think makes someone wealthy (or “rich”) as opposed to UMC?
Am I missing something (could be as I didn’t really look closely), but what does an increase in cap gain income tax have to do with anything about this property, sellers of buyers?
1.) If you are making 200/250k, would you really be looking at this place?
2.) For the seller, they are no where close to exceeding the cap gain exemption on the sale of a house. Is that on the table for being reduced in 2013?
As for the $30k exterior work, what the heck are they doing? Are they being overcharged for split face block sealing work?
“What made $250k the magic fairy line?”
Single Filer, sorry I forgot what year these figures are for but they are within the last 5 years.
A single Filer making $48,838 puts you in the 85th percentile. $36,640 puts you in the 75th percentile.
$193,307 puts you in the 99th percentile while, $309,288 puts you in the 99.5% and $756,207 puts you in the 99.9%.
It only takes $87,149 to be in the top 5% of income for a Single.
Looking, thanks for those numbers. Was searching for them and then got distracted. The median household income in Chicago is only $38,625, below the national median income of $41,994. We always talk about these decent homes in Chicago’s nicer neighborhoods, but don’t forget that there is a much larger quantity of Chicago residents living in much cheaper homes on the south and west sides.
I can’t stand people who are this stupid. Worst case scenario, this seller would owe a little more on GAINS above $250k, or all GAINS if they can’t get the homeowner capital gain exemption because they haven’t lived there a certain portion of the last five years (I think it’s 2 or 3 years). I don’t recall if there might be first-dollar gain liability if there are already $250k of capital gains. I think that home sale might not hit capital gains at all until it’s above $250k/$500k, but I’m not sure. So, fine, this might affect this person if it’s sold for close to $600k (since you can deduct commissions from the gains, but subject to reduction of basis equal to depreciation as a rental asset) or maybe if it’s sold for a gain and they will already have $250k of other capital gains in 2013 and not be able to take the homeowner capital gain exception.
It blows my mind that someone thinks that this is a good way to market a property. You show stupidity, you show partisanship and you make obviously empty statements.
Related, is there anyone who voted for Romney who doesn’t fit into at least one of the following categories? Everyone I know who did is at least one of these:stupid, warmongering chickenhawk, racist, homophobe, evangelical / anti-secularist, rich and greedy or Zionist.
Perhaps the agent wanted some publicity, to get people to start talking about how dumb the listing is! Ha. How fast will this lisitng go viral?
The real estate agent comes across as an idiot. I would avoid this listing even if I might have been interested.
The people I know who voted for Romney, hated Obama more. I couldn’t vote for either since one eats dogs and the other puts dogs on top of his car.
JJJ–
So you are showing your “liberal” tolerance for diversity, by attacking voters for their religion (i.e., evangelical). I’m so glad the democrats are so “tolerant” and “open minded.”
JJJ – wow. you are obviously looking for attention, so i will oblige. what about those who voted for romney because they are in favor of small government because government cannot and does not spend our tax dollars appropriately? when did it become ok for liberals and democrats to bash those who vote for the opposition? romney lost. why are you still crying foul? you show great ignorance lumping zionists and evangelicals in with those other categories. maybe you should get an education.
Gramin, I agree, but the numbers are a little off…
“The median household income in Chicago was $43,628 in 2011, compared with the national figure of $50,502”
http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/american_community_survey_acs/cb12-r03.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-good-man-the-right-fight/2012/11/28/5338b27a-38e9-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story.html
No wonder Romney lost, the guy running his campaign is a fool.
btw, i dont know anyone who voted for obama who isnt: looking for handouts, guilt-ridden about their own success, uneducated about the economy or a masochist.
Sometimes ignorance is funny; other times its just sad.
Either way, putting that statement in a listing raises a flag to me as a buyer that this seller is going to be a PITA and unless the property is The Unicorn (TM), not worth dealing with. This seller/agent is likely offending more potential buyers than encouraging them to move quickly.
Household incomes vs. single filer income could vastly different. An average of $43k is pretty sad if there are two workers in a household.
“i dont know anyone who voted for obama who isnt: looking for handouts, guilt-ridden about their own success, uneducated about the economy or a masochist.”
sarahs – you are showing “great ignorance” by lumping me in those categories. Let’s focus on the listing, which is rife with misinformation and rhetoric being used in hopes of selling the place faster.
Is there anyway to report such listings to the MLS?
I think that I forgot misogynists. Also, in answer to a few questions:
“So you are showing your “liberal” tolerance for diversity, by attacking voters for their religion (i.e., evangelical).”
Only in America does separation of church and state and a resistance to letting religions try to restrict the civil rights of others turn into attacking voters for their religion. It’s obvious that folks who think like this actually believe that it’s right and American for the government (not the individuals who make it up, but the government itself) to support, benefit and follow a specific religion. Disgusting.
“what about those who voted for romney because they are in favor of small government because government cannot and does not spend our tax dollars appropriately?”
They’re stupid, they should have voted for Ron Paul. Romney offered no advantage in this respect. He was going to run a huge deficit to give money to the rich and blow a lot of money and lives on stupid wars.
“when did it become ok for liberals and democrats to bash those who vote for the opposition?”
It’s always been that way. Dissent and criticism are part of our system. Suppression of them (and voter suppression) is un-American.
“romney lost. why are you still crying foul?”
I’m pointing out that this real estate agent is stupid, and maybe some of the others, too, and that he’s parroting idiotic and mindless Romney talking points.
“you show great ignorance lumping zionists and evangelicals in with those other categories.”
Well, it’s clear that those groups overwhelmingly voted for Romney, so they lumped themselves. I don’t really have a problem with one-issue voters, I just usually disagree with their issues and their positions. If you really think that Romney is best for Israel, and that’s how you decide your vote, more power to you.
“maybe you should get an education.”
Those who do supported Obama overwhelmingly.
“I couldn’t vote for either since one eats dogs and the other puts dogs on top of his car.”
Stupid, and a little bigoted. The eating dogs thing is racism and xenophobia. Might as well just say what you feel instead of cloaking it.
@ Sarahs and a local, not saying I agree with JJJ, but according to my English as second language skills, he is only lumping evangelicals and zionist with others in the feature that they voted for Romney he is not saying they are racist or stupid. So if you are an evangelical and voted Romney, you fit his description. Before advising others to get an education, first make sure you have basic grasp of first-order logic.
haha fair enough miumiu. it can be very frustrating to be a conservative voter in chicago. it’s frustrating as a believer in small government to watch the government continue to fail to deliver. for the record, i am pro-choice, pro-immigration reform, anti-military establishment and pro-environment (meaning i am for incentives for green energy). i think this past election was solely about the economy and i personally feel that american citizens failed to grasp the importance of decreasing federal involvement in our lives and the republican party failed in its message.
“Household incomes vs. single filer income could vastly different. An average of $43k is pretty sad if there are two workers in a household.”
A household is a household, regardless of how many people live there.
JJJ – take a chill pill man. I guess saying man would make me a racist.
After thinking about it all morning (okay for 30 more seconds) I can only think of one explanation that might make any sense: The reatlor went to an SEO seminar and learned that if you include trending tags you might get more hits on your website.
This works great for blogs, not so much for real estate listings.
” I guess saying man would make me a racist.”
Nope. being a man is not a race it is a sex. Still it does not make you sexist, but shows that you assume by default a poster is a male.
Sarahs, there’s your problem, or rather, the Republicans’ problem. If the conservatives would move away from the oppressive social agenda, they would fare much better in the elections. Women aren’t going to vote for you if you tell them that (a) you won’t let them have an abortion (especially since it’s God’s will that you were raped) and (b) you don’t want them to have access to contraceptives. You won’t win minorities without a comprehensive immigration plan that provides an easy pathway to citizenship.
Oh yeah. and Republicans should really stop putting doctors in office. Who really wants to listen to Dr. Akins talk about how an abortion is never necessary to save a woman’s life.
The Repubs shot themselves in the face this election, and mostly on the social issues… though there was that one glaring mistake by Romney where he told the auto industry and all their blue collar workers that he would have let them fail. Could you have pissed off blue collar America any worse? In the dictionary next to the definition of a blue collar worker is a picture of a guy at an auto plant. They are the quintessential blue collar American and you basically told them that you’d be ok with them getting the pink slip. Doh!
Eating dogs is disgusting and it disgusts me that the president ate dogs and bragged about it. Uncivilized societies/people eat dogs. How can one look at a dog and think, “Food?” I don’t care what race or culture one is…eating dogs is something for vermin and the lowest forms of human life.
Sarahs, are you troubled that your fellow conservatives oppose a carbon tax? That they are for the most part climate change denialists? That our health care system underperforms the nanny-state systems of Europe and costs a great deal more?
What’s funny about this seller is that his ideological presuppositions (to the extent that they are really motivating his attempt to sell) are self-defeating and badly need to be “marked to the market.” He’s kind of a metaphor for your movement — although not necessarily for you particularly.
I’d eat dog if it was prepared properly. It’s a freakin’ animal, I love meat.
“Uncivilized societies/people eat dogs”
Wow. That’s quite a general statement. How about this… how many industrial (thus modern) societies execute their citizens? Two, Japan and the U.S. Who incarcerates more of its citizens than any other society? The U.S., by a very wide margin. And which modern society has a gun problem and can’t seem to keep its people from killing each other? The U.S.
Before you start casting stones at other cultures because of the food they eat, perhaps you should look at us first… we’re not that great, despite what you might have learned as a little kid.
Can someone explain this sensitivity to dog eating. I understand if a vegetarian finds carnivores disgusting but why eating pigs, lamp, and so on is ok but not dogs?
miumiu, I try to stay away from lamps, especially the ones that are still plugged in. If you bite in too deep, you’ll quickly find yourself in a lot of pain.
Dogs evolved to love people and live with them. How can someone eat man’s best friend?
I don’t eat meat of any type, but understand that humans are omnivores and evolved to eat meat. However, dogs evolved with us and protected us. Eating a dog is like chopping off your own hand and eating it for food. There was ample food for Obama to eat. He didn’t have to eat dogs. It wasn’t as though his family was dirt poor and had no other options. Although, I would starve to death before eating a dog…just as I would starve to death before eating a person.
miumiu – I’m with you. Hundreds (thousands?) of years ago someone arbitrarily decided that cows are food and dogs are friend. Could have just as easily been dogs or horses are food and squirrels are friend. Meat is meat. Barbecued it all tastes delicious. If you choose to not eat any meat, that is your choice, but judging another culture for their choice of food animal is pure xenophobia.
Horse is actually quite tasty. Had is in Italy.
Put some dog meat on the grill and I bet it would be pretty damn tasty.
” why are you still crying foul?”
While knowledgeable JJJ has a lot of issues it seems. And he chooses to vent them on this real estate message board, likely because his law school peers were bored to tears with him.
“Dogs evolved to love people and live with them.”
False, humans domesticated, through breeding, the ancestors of dogs in the last 20,000 years or so into the domestic canine.
Cats are often said to have domesticated themselves because they recognized that proximity to and good relationships with humans are to their benefit. Most theories say that it was natural, not artificial selection, so that’s a lot closer to evolution than dogs.
” Hundreds (thousands?) of years ago someone arbitrarily decided that cows are food and dogs are friend. Could have just as easily been dogs or horses are food and squirrels are friend.”
I’d love to see you trying to train a squirrel to guard your house or fetch your newspaper.
“False, humans domesticated, through breeding, the ancestors of dogs in the last 20,000 years or so into the domestic canine. ”
No this is incorrect. Cave-man wasn’t taking wolf pups captive and breeding them. Quite the contrary it was a mutual co-evolution. Cave-dwelling early humans likely didn’t have the resources/capacity to engage in breeding in any case.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203554104577001843790269560.html
“I’d love to see you trying to train a squirrel to guard your house or fetch your newspaper.”
Give me 20,000 years and I guarantee I could do it.
I see nothing wrong with being judgmental of other cultures. I look at people as individuals and don’t assume that because someone is from a particular culture, that they are “bad” or “good.” On the other hand, I feel free to judge all cultures, including our own. Just because someone’s culture endorses eating dogs, doesn’t mean I’m racist for harshly judging that culture. I also harshly judge any culture that treats women as property. It’s irritating to be called racist because I dislike a culture’s ethos.
I’ll bite…
“Related, is there anyone who voted for Romney who doesn’t fit into at least one of the following categories? Everyone I know who did is at least one of these:stupid, warmongering chickenhawk, racist, homophobe, evangelical / anti-secularist, rich and greedy or Zionist.”
Is there anyone who voted for Obama who doesn’t fit into at least one of the following categories: stupid, anti-white racist, poor, greedy, secular fundamentalist, LGBT, a moocher, abortion-lover, on SNAP assistance, Jewish, a foreigner by birth, and/or an anti-Christian bigot?
Anyone else notice that the listing says “Agent Owned/Interest” ? I emailed the realtor stating how it was unprofessional to bring up Obamacare in the a listing, and that it probably wouldn’t affect the seller and he replied with this message:
“Regardless if broker or buyer I can share that under your understanding I qualify under both scenarios and this is why it would be costly to delay.
It is a great investment with great rental. I will save as investment if I must take that much less.
Thank you and Godspeed in finding the perfect match (*I mentioned I was in the market for a condo*)
-Jeff Baker
PS. Happy Holidays”
Ahh thanks for joining the party Helmethofer! Dude, it’s been too long since I’ve been called an abortion loving, gay loving, science-hating, Jewish barbarian.
Are you by chance the owner of this property?
“Oh yeah. and Republicans should really stop putting doctors in office. Who really wants to listen to Dr. Akins talk about how an abortion is never necessary to save a woman’s life.”
You are a class A idiot. The GOP elected an ob/gyn to congress, it was Ron Paul, M.D. is is against abortion-killing despite being the more libertarian person running. He said is his entire career of delivering more than 4,000 persons into this world, he said he never once came across this situation where an abortion was “required to save the mother’s life”. It’s so rare and preposterous, only an idiot would use as a reasoning to support laws that lead to killing people.
Science has advanced, there is no denying that what is seen on an ultrasound is a person. Abortion is murder and anyone who has any intelligence whatsoever knows this in their heart. It’s a barbaric procedure. It’s pretty pathetic that some liberal woman would kill her own child — and it’s more pathetic when some Indiana republican dude cares more about some woman’s child, than the woman herself. If you support killing a fetus then you might as well support the legal killing of a child up to the hour before it’s born. Ron Paul says there is no time distinction that can be made, Day 1 or Day 275 of a pregnancy, the Gramins of the world support killing a person to their eternal shame and complete ignorance of science. They live the the dark ages. The tide is turned against people like Gramin, doctors increasingly refuse to perform the barbaric procedure, and nurses refuse to assist. That’s why it’s always shipped offsite to these degenerate clinics. Just like the GOP chicken-hawks to push war, the sick-twisted Left that loves abortion, they should be required to assist in performing it, the big-mouth scumbags…
What Jenny said: “It’s irritating to be called racist because I dislike a culture’s ethos.”
What I read: “Its OK to judge others but irritating to be judged.”
Just got here, had to add that this realtor is a fucking moron since her clients clearly don’t qualify for the tax
At Thanksgiving dinner, I sat next to a staunch Republican upper-middle-income parent of a 17-year-old student with autism, and listened as the parent launched into an anti-Obamacare tirade about “terrible to be forced to buy health insurance”. When the parent paused for a second, I interjected: “but how will your child otherwise obtain health insurance?”. Longer pause, and no response. This parent has employee-provided health insurance and pension plan, perks not available to most employed people these days.
People can judge my culture all they want. There’s a huge difference between judging a person and a culture.
That’s the best comparison…the Repub chicken-hawks who love death should be first on the front lines, and the twisted abortion-lover Dems who love death should be required to operate the suction machine and clean up and dispose of the remains.
Helmuthofer: There’s a recent well-publicized case in Ireland where a mother died in hospital due to massive infection due to an in-hospital multi-day incomplete miscarriage where doctors refused to do an abortion to save the mother’s life. These cases aren’t normally discussed by media, but miscarriage complications certainly occur often enough.
I saw that too! A sad story, but it totally convinced me that I’m right. The case was used deceitfully and massively, and cleverly and sadly, as a soapbox for abortion lovers and their enablers/collaborators. Ireland still doesn’t have abortion clinics or doctors or nurses. The very first one opened recently in N. Ireland because it’s part of the UK. There are people heavily invested in publicizing that case you mentioned, because they see it as an opening for their kind of demoic “progress” which is more abortions. This happens so very rarely as to be statistically insignificant, yet you heard about it…..gee, wonder why? These evil people don’t miss a trick, or miss an opportunity to exploit even a tragedy. More abortion is progress to them, it makes them happy to see more abortion clinics in the world. They push for this. Don’t be like that, you’re on a higher plane of existence.
“Abortion is murder and anyone who shares my metaphysical worldview knows this in their heart.”
Fixed that for ya, Helms.
Also, how many ectopic pregnancies happen every year?
Also, to see what happens when you let men in red silk slippers legislate for your country, google “Savita Halappanavar.”
Helmet, you and the RC church and other God-botherers argue that abortion is intrinsically evil. Savita Halappanavar’s reveals you to be full of shit. That’s why her case is significant. That is why Akin and Mourdock turfed the GOP’s hopes for the Senate. It’s a losing battle for you. Americans do not believe it is _intrinsically_ evil. Please fail to get the message and fight on!
“Fixed that for ya, Helms”
No you didn’t. You’re just anti-science and showing that kind of ignorance.
“Savita Halappanavar”
I explained that already. You’re either been duped by the abortion-loving propagandists, or you’re one of them or a collaborator. Either way, I feel sorry for you. I explained above how the people who desire more abortion clinics are propagandizing that story all over the Western world for their agenda. You’ve been duped. You’re not that intelligent it seems, or you’re instincts are dull. I bet if suggested that Israel should allow foreign-NGOs to come in and set up tons of abortion clinics in Tel Aviv to abort jewish fetuses, people would be “shocked”. Yet, that’s exactly what these sinister people are trying to accomplish in Ireland, and boy, do they love that Savita Halappanavar died, it’s just the opening they’ve been waiting for! Get a foot in the door, loosen those laws!
Paying for my girlfriend’s abortion in college was the smartest investment of $400 I’ve ever made. The ROI has been incredible!
“People can judge my culture all they want. There’s a huge difference between judging a person and a culture.”
Hating Jews: kosher.
Hating someone because they hate Jews: irritating.
Got it.
Elliot asked “Are you by chance the owner of this property?” DeanOlds/notDan/Helmuthead responded with typical misdirection bs nonanswer “You are a class A idiot..” but he previously outed himself as minimally neighbor if not the owner of subject property. “I live near the Violet Hour, where the entire ethos… takes inspiration from the culture and tradition I represent and belong to”.
“Ron Paul MD is is against abortion….He said is his entire career…” wtf? For someone so certain of his superiority you would think he could construct two coherent sentences but it must be such a challenge for brilliance personified to accurately complete such pedestrian tasks when pizza deliveries need to be completed in timely fashion.
For the record Helmet, I’m opposed to abortions. However, I will never restrict a woman’s right to choose nor will I vote for a representative who will cast such a vote. Furthermore, your cult has blinded you if you believe that an abortion is never medically necessary to save the mother’s life.
And what if the woman was raped? Should we force her to carry the fetus to term and live with a constant reminder of the awful and horrendous experience she was forced to endure?
Or what if child will be deformed or mentally deficient? Should we force a mom to carry that fetus to term knowing that her child will never live a normal life and require 24/7 care, with the constant reality that the child probably won’t live past his/her teens?
not owner, just typos…I’ll try and proofread better for you Southbound. Hey, did you know that Kevin dated your daughter?
helmet, your jerking off has killed billions of unborn children, you sick freak
I love that this entire thread de-volved into abortion. But really, my first thought was how many republicans want to live in Wicker Park anyway? It’s full of bleeding heart, liberal hipsters. There are also non-white people there! Possibly gangs! It doesn’t seem like a place that is leaning Romney.
To the topic at hand, @Helm: do you support increased access to contraception? Because really, the only way to decrease abortions is to make sure women and men are using condoms, birth control, etc.
“For the record Helmet, I’m opposed to abortions.”
No you’re not. You’re pro-abortion.
And what if the woman was raped?
Statistically insignificant, used as a wedge just like this “Savita Halappanavar” bullshit. The propagandists don’t care about this woman, and never did. How many thousands of people die in India every single day of something tragic or of poverty, etc.? They don’t care about her….they don’t give two-shits about her. What they really care about pushing their “progress” defined as more abortion clinics. You’d have to be an idiot not to see this and the crocodile tears, what you really see is demonic hate in their faces. Go look at the photos of these people on the GuardianUK website. They don’t care about that woman, if she had died in India of malnutrition they wouldn’t even care to know her name, let alone “protest”. Who could respect such people?
“Or what if child will be deformed or mentally deficient?”
heil hitler? I don’t know what else to say…. You never see liberals or jews with downs-syndrome kids around Chicago. They kill them instead.
Abortions = lower crime
http://www.freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/
“@Helm: do you support increased access to contraception?”
All I know is all the feminist-ized women around Chicago use it, which allows the men to never commit….then the women get older and either don’t get married at all (what % over 35 get married, it’s low) or if they get lucky and do get married, they cannot easily get pregnant because the girl or husband is past prime age, and then end up running to the IVF clinic to undo years of body-cycle tampering due to the Pill. Then they sit there and hope the IVF works, some even pray!…..and it’s not covered by insurance if you’d had an abortion before (and it’s less covered these days by insurance anyway), so there’s tens of thousands out the window. Then they hope to finally get something cooking in the oven. We have gays who cannot naturally conceive, who concoct all kinds of assembly line & IVF surrogate bullshit…..all these people who cannot get pregnant, yet we’re to believe our number 1 issue is all these pregnancies due to “rape”. yeah, like that happens every day….
Pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Keep slinging mud all you want, but I know who I am.
And your entire argument revolves around one very disputable tenet: liberals love to kill babies. Come on… give me some shred of evidence other than calling us demons and Hitler. You can’t make a rational argument supporting your stance that abortion should be illegal whereas the medical community agrees that abortions are needed in certain circumstances.
Tough decision… do I listen to the right wing neocons and Helmet or the doctors???
All I can say about this listing is that no matter how amazing the place is, I wouldn’t deal with this agent or any owner involved (turns out he owns this, but you get my drift). But then, since I’m a foreigner my money probably isn’t good enough anyway.
Anne, did you hear the recent suggestion by some rather large and very significant physicians group (sorry, can’t recall which one)? Just the other day they made the suggestion that birth control should move from a prescribed medicine to one that is available over the counter. Given the very rare complications and it’s importance to women, they feel it’s best that we make it readily available at every Walmart, Target, CVS, Walgreens and every other pharmacy. Could take years for the FDA to sign off, but I think it’s a great move.
They couldn’t get the FDA to sign off on making Plan B over the counter, so I don’t see that happening. Can’t have impressionable young girls exposed to such things! And we all know women are too stupid to follow the directions on a package insert.
What JJJ said.
If you’re against abortion, don’t have one.
simple as that.
@ Helm. Interesting. All the women that I know that use birth control use to to regulate their periods, control their PMS and prevent themselves from getting pregnant. Then, when they are married and in their late 20’s/early 30’s, they have gotten pregnant without problems (acutally its kinda impressive, many of them have been able to time it so the baby is born in the season they want). They also have been able to use the money they earned from the jobs they had before the kids to save and have a career, if they desired, after their kid! What crazy different worlds we live in!?!
@Gramin. I do think it is interesting that the physician’s groups are now all coming out and saying that birth control should be available OTC. On one hand I’m all for it, but on another, I do think that women should see at least an NP about it. As someone who got horrifying headaches from their rx and had to change a few times, I know it would’ve frightened me to know I had no one to talk to. Plan B, though, should be given out like candy…
DeanOlds/notDan/Helmuthead the class z idiot who has never convinced a woman to partner up with himself but is still a self proclaimed expert on sex and pregnancy bragged earlier this year “…it’s the offices of Chicago’s most prolific boob-man Dr. Leon Forrester Tcheupdjian “Dr. T.”, “Lipodoc™”. I’ve sampled much of his work over the years!”.
Yet mr. nom de plum of an alleged killer of a divorcing wife/mother now all concerned about morality, contraception and the like said “.contraception..allows the men to never commit….then the women get older and either don’t get married at all …. Then they sit there and hope the IVF works, some even pray!”
Did your ‘sampling’ involve sex or were you like bubbabob limited to jagging off after ogling strippers? If it did involve sex do you agree that in the event of contraception failure you must bear your share of responsibility? Or do you like so many conservatives have a different set of standards for the rest of us than the moral laws you hold yourself to?
“Helmuthofer: There’s a recent well-publicized case in Ireland where a mother died in hospital due to massive infection due to an in-hospital multi-day incomplete miscarriage where doctors refused to do an abortion to save the mother’s life. These cases aren’t normally discussed by media, but miscarriage complications certainly occur often enough.”
She was an Indian immigrant, she wasn’t from Ireland. If she didn’t want this to happen to her she could’ve simply not moved to Ireland. Good riddance to her I say–people can’t (and shouldn’t) expect the place they move to have the customs & norms they are used to where they move from.
Lol the Obamacare tax won’t even enter into this. But leave it to a Realtor(tm) to not know this.
The Obamacare tax on RE gains will likely only hit rich people and downzising baby boomers who have stayed put for a long time (20+ years) in an area with significant RE appreciation over said timeframe.
“Good riddance to her I say–people can’t (and shouldn’t) expect the place they move to have the customs & norms they are used to where they move from.”
Leaving aside your general mean-spiritedness, I think she would have been justified in expecting her health care provider to follow the Irish supreme court’s ruling on life saving abortions.
I pretty sure the name of this site should changed to “Everything But CribChatter”.
“subject to reduction of basis equal to depreciation as a rental asset”
See, *this* is how he’d get hit. 12 years of depreciation at ~$10k/yr, and no exemption for O.O. So, looking at basis of ~$200k, and a taxable gain of about $100k after closing costs, etc.
So, all that nonsense over $3800. Which is less than 10% of the aggregate FIT savings he got from the (assumed) depreciation. Also less than the commission split he will “pay” himself as the seller agent. Brilliant!
“See, *this* is how he’d get hit. 12 years of depreciation at ~$10k/yr, and no exemption for O.O. So, looking at basis of ~$200k, and a taxable gain of about $100k after closing costs, etc.
So, all that nonsense over $3800. Which is less than 10% of the aggregate FIT savings he got from the (assumed) depreciation. Also less than the commission split he will “pay” himself as the seller agent. Brilliant!”
The $3800 is just the ObamaCare component. The cap gains rate could be 20% or even as high as 28% next year. If it goes to 28% and he has $100k gain, the cap gains tax increase would be $16,800.
Where this guy is wrong is in thinking the value of his place will just magically go up by that amount on January 1 if someone doesn’t act now to snap it up.
“Where this guy is wrong is in thinking the value of his place will just magically go up by that amount on January 1 if someone doesn’t act now to snap it up.”
He’s also wrong with “3.8% Obamacare tax starts and capital gains tax could go up 13%”, as 3.8 is ~25% of 15%; what is 13% of ltcg rate is 1.95%.
He also leaves out the “fiscal cliff” bump in LTCG to 20%. So, really, it’s a 58% increase in the tax on gain by closing after 12/31.
Also, curious how buyer “pays” his FIT; if he’s increasing the price to account for that, then he needs to increase it further to account for the tax on the higher gain–is that really the plan? Is he also going to bump it up by any other costs (special for the exterior?) incurred, or based on higher CG bc of another year of depreciation claimed?
The only thing missing from this conversation is Bob’s opinion on eating dogs. I have no guess as to which side of the menu he’ll land, but I’m almost certain he will skewer someone with his rapier-sharp wit… I mean unending ad hominems attacks.
“The only thing missing from this conversation is Bob’s opinion on eating dogs. I have no guess as to which side of the menu he’ll land, but I’m almost certain he will skewer someone with his rapier-sharp wit… I mean unending ad hominems attacks.”
Well, he always takes it easy on jenny, ever since someone (miumiu? !!!) suggested he and jenny might get together. And he has chimed in already on the dog evolution/breeding thing, on jenny’s side I might add. So I deduce he’s really pro dog eating but is strategically staying quiet.
“See, *this* is how he’d get hit. 12 years of depreciation at ~$10k/yr, and no exemption for O.O. So, looking at basis of ~$200k, and a taxable gain of about $100k after closing costs, etc.”
No, no, no!
Doesn’t ANYONE here understand the law? This is why I did a post on this because I know most people don’t understand what the law is.
Let’s say he has a $100,000 profit after closing costs as PermaBear says. He gets the $250,000 exemption if he is single. He gets a $500,000 exemption if he is married.
Let’s say he is single. He would have to have profit of AT LEAST $250,000 before the tax kicks in. But he only has $100,000.
There is NO TAX.
So let’s say he has $300,000 profit (in some alternative universe) and is single. He has a $250,000 exemption. That leaves him with $50,000 taxed at 3.8%.
Or $1900.
This seller will pay much more in the Cook County transfer tax under any of these scenarios.
If you are married you literally have to have a huge profit off your real estate to ever pay the tax. And then it kicks in after $500,000.
So let’s say you bought a house in 1988 in Wilmette for $250,000. You sell it next year for $1.25 million. You have a profit of $1 million. You are married. You get the $500,000 exemption. That leaves $500,000.
You will be taxed at 3.8% on that remaining $500,000 (that is- if you qualify under the income requirements as well.)
If you only make $100,000 a year and sell for that much- you will have NO TAX.
How many people will actually have to pay the Obamacare tax on their real estate?
Only the 1% (because of the income requirements).
It’s a very, very small number of people.
“Only the 1% (because of the income requirements).”
Only if they have greater than 250 or 500k in cap gains, which is unlikely–I don’t think luxe mkt valuations have rebounded _that much_ (if at all).
This listing is just a realtard doing dumb things.
Tealtards?
“Doesn’t ANYONE here understand the law? This is why I did a post on this because I know most people don’t understand what the law is.
Let’s say he has a $100,000 profit after closing costs as PermaBear says. He gets the $250,000 exemption if he is single. He gets a $500,000 exemption if he is married.”
So, you are assuming that he’s a tax cheat? Look at my assumption and think about it for two more seconds….
Waiting…
Still don’t get it? Even with that snotty ass “no no no” BS??? Ok, using little words, since I guess I must:
*IF* he has ~$120k in depreciation, it means that he NEVER LIVED IN IT!!!!! And the CG exemptiom ONLY APLLIES TO PRIMARY RESIDENCES. So there is NO EXEMPTION TO CLAIM!!!!!!!! The FIRST dollar of gain in that scenario is subject to LTCG, and (also assuming and completely unstated in my priors) that he’s over the 200/250 (or whatever) single/MFJ AGI threshold, then that FIRST DOLLAR of gain is subject to the surtax.
Doesnt anyone understand how the Code actually works?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!
anon is right. I’m assuming this guy had this as a rental and his basis is far lower than what he paid due to depreciation. Between the Obamacare surtax and any cap gains hike, he could be out a massive chunk of change if he has 250k of income from other sources. Looks like the Obama Truth Squad is still working overtime even though the election is over.
Yes, anon and permabear.
“Between the Obamacare surtax and any cap gains hike, he could be out a massive chunk of change if he has 250k of income from other sources.”
From other sources is the key- right? So why blame the buyer? Why market it as THIS PROPERTY is the problem with the tax when that isn’t true?
If you have a big investment portfolio and you’re selling for over $250,000 profit and you’re in the right income level- then yes- this tax is now the reality.
But that would be true on stocks, bonds, art or anything else.
“Doesnt anyone understand how the Code actually works?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!”
Anon(tfo): We’re talking about two different things. You’re talking about the capital gains tax. I’m talking about the Obamacare tax.
Here’s a scenario the NAR lays out which is what we have here:
Purchase and Sale of Investment Property (Residential or Commercial)
Ethan has purchased an investment property for $900,000. During his period of ownership, he takes
$230,000 in depreciation deductions. He has also made some improvements to the property. At the time
of sale, his adjusted basis in the property is $760,000. He subsequently sells the property for $1.2 million.
In the year of sale, he is single and reports self-employment income of $315,000.
The tax applies as follows:
Gain on Sale $440,000 ($1.2 million less adjusted basis of $760,000)
Depreciation Recapture $230,000
Total Gain $670,000 (Gain on sale plus depreciation recapture)
Schedule C Income $315,000
New AGI $985,000 ($315,000 + $670,000)
Excess AGI over $200,000 $785,000 ($985,000 – $200,000)
Lesser Amount (Taxable) $670,000 (Capital gain)
Tax Due $25,460 ($670,000 x 0.038)
?
The statute provides no guidance as to whether Ethan can defer the 3.8% tax by
entering into a like-kind exchange when he sells the property. This question may be
addressed in regulations at a later time, but for the present is not resolved.
I don’t see, under the price of THIS property, how a tax could be owed. But if the seller is trying to sell multiple properties in the same tax year- then yeah, there is a different scenario.
“From other sources is the key- right? So why blame the buyer? Why market it as THIS PROPERTY is the problem with the tax when that isn’t true?
If you have a big investment portfolio and you’re selling for over $250,000 profit and you’re in the right income level- then yes- this tax is now the reality.
But that would be true on stocks, bonds, art or anything else.”
It’s not just a big investment portfolio, though. I am pretty sure (but don’t quote me on it) that the Obamacare tax is going to hit any cap gain even if your ordinary income is above the threshhold.
In terms of liquid financial instruments, we will see to what extent folks sell out prior to 12/31. I wouldn’t expect a bond selloff because anyone with big gains in bonds is likely clipping coupons that are massive compared to where they could reinvest so they’ll hold to maturity and get taken out at par, at which point they may or not have a gain (most folks will probably have a material gain at maturity only if they bought during the crash when bonds were steeply discounted). I suspect there will be a fairly tame stock selloff because I would surmise that a majority of publicly traded stocks (save for holdings of really, really rich dudes who have control stakes or are C-level execs in a company) are held in 401ks and IRAs so the tax changes will have little impact there.
What we’re seeing now is a lot of gamesmanship, though. Costco just borrowed a few billion dollars and announced a $7 per share dividend payable in December to get free cash and even future free cash out of the company to protect their shareholders against the dividend tax hikes. Kind of awesome the CEO went up and gave a fair share speech in favor of Obama and then undertook this tax planning strategy, though.
But you’re right about the marketing of this property. There are a lot of assets that will have larger capital gains imposed and lower future cash flow projections after Obama finishes with his plans. The seller was just setting forth his rationale for wanting to close pre-12/31, but his mistake is in thinking he can magically extract the tax costs out of the 1/1/13 buyer. Markets don’t work that way.
“Anon(tfo): We’re talking about two different things. You’re talking about the capital gains tax. I’m talking about the Obamacare tax.”
The seller is worried about both, though. And the exemption for Obamacare only applies to owner-occupied properties, same as the cap gains tax. Obamacare will piggy back off of the IRC structure for cap gains.
Frankly, the government should do away with the cap gains exemption and treat a home like every other capital asset (e.g., you pay a tax when you win and can deduct the loss when you lose). It, along with several other market distortions (e.g., mortgage deduction, unlimited liquidity from Fannie/Freddie, FHA subsidy/low down payment policies, etc.) have helped push the American Dream out of the reach of many responsible folks and has helped build a degree of leverage in our economy that is not safe.
Anon is right, you have to live in it 2 our of the previous five years to get the exemption. You shouldn’t make some much noise criticizing others for stuff you don’t understand, Sabrina. Also, your example recaptures the depreciation twice. I think that Dave at Amerivest Realty has it wrong. You have to pay ordinary income taxes on the depreciation recapture but it doesn’t get counted again for capital gains purposes.
“I don’t see, under the price of THIS property, how a tax could be owed.”
You don’t see that, if he held it for 12 years as an “investment” property, and took full depreciation each year, that he would have ~$100k in LTCG if he sells at the current ask? And that, if he has 200/250 (whatever) in AGI from OI (or div or cg) from other sources, the Obamacare tax hits the first dollar of that gain?
Are you serious?!?!?!?!?
With the other assumptions we’ve made (not oo, no improvements, total land value $300k or so divided by 3 units), anon(tfo) is right about depreciation – about $100k. He’ll pay ordinary income taxes on that for recapture purposes, but I think that it’s considered investment income so he’ll also pay the ACA surcharge of 3.8% on any portion of that that pushes his AGI above $250k. That’s for any portion of the sale above about $215k. For any potion above the initial purchase price, he’ll owe LTCG at his rate and the ACA surcharge for portions pushing AGI above $250k. LTCG rates are up in the air at this point, but looks like it would be 23.8% total.
If there’s one chatter I love more than abortion, racism rants and Obama care, its accounting laws…
just delete this pile of shit already sabrina and lets pretend this never happened
“You will be taxed at 3.8% on that remaining $500,000 (that is- if you qualify under the income requirements as well.)
If you only make $100,000 a year and sell for that much- you will have NO TAX.”
No, you are forgetting that they already have to pay LTCG on the gain above $500k and than you have to pay the surcharge when the gain pushes you over $250k in combined AGI. So, they’ll be paying whatever the LTCG tax rate is on that income. 18% or 20%, as I think that the 5 year lower rate that’s coming back will apply to primary residences. You will also pay the 3.8% on income above $250k. In your example that is $350k of it. So, before 12/31/12, they would have been paying 15% on everything above $500k or $75k. Now, they be paying, probably 21.8% on $350k = $76,300 plus 18% on $150k = $27k, total of $103,300. So the ACA surcharge on investment income costs this couple $28,300 more in taxes.
jjj: ” So the ACA surcharge on investment income costs this couple $28,300 more in taxes.”
The ACA surcharge *coupled with* the presumed “fiscal cliff” rate increase.
sonies: “just delete this pile of shit already sabrina and lets pretend this never happened”
That what you tell your clients, too? “that tax code is just a steaming pile; pretend it doesn’t exist”? No tax planning in Sonies portfolio management portfolio?
Do note that that was the *whole point* of the post, and you should have just avoided it based on “tax” appearing in the title.
“That what you tell your clients, too? “that tax code is just a steaming pile; pretend it doesn’t exist”? No tax planning in Sonies portfolio management portfolio? ”
nice strawman
“nice strawman”
Thanks!
“Obamacare Tax” in the post title = discussion of accounting rules. Easy as 1 = 1.
So Romney’s campaign was stupider than I thought.
http://www.tnr.com/blog/plank/110597/exclusive-the-polls-made-mitt-romney-think-hed-win#
“FULL PRICE ONLY!”
Well if the tax is going to hit this owner as claimed, someone better step up to the plate and pay full price as the owner demands or else the owner’s going to take a huge tax hit and presumably this price will go up by the amount of said tax increase on 1/1. Bwhahaha.
Why not 1031 the gain? problem solved.
Is it obvious to everyone else that jjj is an idiot because I explained the specific worst case tax implications several comments before his initial idiotic liberal rant? And then later he goes after Sabrina for her alleged lack of knowledge? Sheesh! Why are these people so angry even after their guy won? I’ll let Condaleeza Rice explain it:
“If you are taught bitterness and anger, then you will believe you are a victim. You will feel aggrieved and the twin brother of aggrievment is entitlement. So now you think you are owed something and you don’t have to work for it and now you’re on a really bad road to nowhere because there are people who will play to that sense of victimhood, aggrievement and entitlement, and you still won’t have a job.”
“ecause I explained the specific worst case tax implications several comments before”
Marty–pretty sure your post as a “new guy” wasn’t visible to anyone else when jjj posted in the am. I don’t remember seeing it.
“Is it obvious to everyone else that jjj is an idiot because I explained the specific worst case tax implications”
Some criticism of me for jumping the gun and not realizing this was an investment property, I can accept. I will refund all readers any payments they made to me based on those initial posts not recognizing an investor owner of high income would have ACA-related additional tax liability.
I still think that the seller is stupid and clueless and that this is a terrible strategy. My take is that this is an investment property, costs of business go up and down, that’s a cost of doing business. Viewing any increase in tax liability as socialism is just an excuse for greed. Capital gains tax rates are historically pretty low, and this Norquistian approach that any increases in taxes are an apocalypse is foolhardy, especially for someone who, as a high income earner, is paying historically rock bottom income taxes. And the whole idea of getting closing by 12/31 and at full price is idiotic. If this guy was that concerned about tax treatment, he should have tried to sell it at market months ago. He’s an idiot and I stand by my political discussion as well – I generally post what I believe and that’s what I did yesterday. And I think that everyone dug the discussion, and a discussion like that was obviously what Sabrina was shooting for with a post like this.
You’re wrong about the worse case scenario. The basis has to be depreciated with respect to the period it’s used as a rental property. So more and potentially much more tax is owed than set forth in your example. Exception might be if it’s vacant to not meet the owner occupied test but not used as a rental property, but that doesn’t seem to be the case here. I think that my posts later today were accurate on the tax situation, or at least pretty close, and certainly closer than yours. So bugger off.
Anyone have price history on this property, by the way? Would love to see what this guy has been trying to sell it for for the past almost 3 years.
I know quite a few wealthy people and I’ve seen their tax returns, and I’m always shocked how the wage earners get totally screwed when it comes to taxes but the wealthy who earn income always find a way to minimize their taxes. Just last week, I had the tax returns of a household that had 571,000 a year in income but through various loopholes, favorable tax treatments and other losses, paper or real, they paid no federal income taxes. I saw another one a few years ago, 600k a year but through various deductions and aggressive real estate depreciation, he hasn’t paid a dime in federal income tax in years. And lives 6 months a year on a yacht in the south. Those are just two of numerous examples. But the radiologist with 400k from a w-2 and limited deductions pays well into the six figures of federal income tax. These are just anecdotal stories. But I’m sure a hnw serving accountant knows exactly what I’m talking about.
“I’m always shocked how the wage earners get totally screwed when it comes to taxes but the wealthy … always find a way to minimize their taxes”
So very true.
“Here’s a scenario the NAR lays out which is what we have here:
Ethan has purchased an investment property”
LOL! “Ethan” voted for Obama.