Why is The Palmolive “Luxury”? 159 E. Walton in the Gold Coast
There was recently a discussion about what makes The Palmolive, at 159 E. Walton, in the Gold Coast a “luxury” building as opposed to just another expensive high rise.
We’ve chattered about Unit #5B, a 2-bedroom unit that has seen over $1 million in custom upgrades, including a Clive Christian kitchen and a wood-paneled library.
These aren’t your “normal” condo finishes.
See our September 2008 chatter and pictures here.
The unit is still on the market after nearly a year and has now been reduced by $620,000.
Unit #5B: 2 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 1 car parking, 2800 square feet
- Sold in April 2007 from the developer for $1,669,500
- Was listed in April 2008 for $2.495 million (included the parking)
- Reduced
- Was listed in September 2008 for $2.195 million (included the parking)
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $1.875 million
- Assessments of $1697 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- Janet Owen at Sudler Sotheby’s still has the listing. See more pictures here.
I think the Palmolive is one the handful of REAL luxury buildings in the city. The others (Trump tower) are just average places with expensive looking finishes. IMO what seperates the men from the boys in the luxury market are the finishes, location and the type of home buyers a project will attract. The Palmolive is more likely to attract an old money couple whereas Trump, for example attracts athletes (and their loud parties). Does make you wonder though what this property is really worth if the seller is willing to reduce the price by 30%.
The place looks ugly. That price should have more windows, an outdoor private terrace, etc.
Who spends a million bucks upgrading a place and wants to sell it a year later? Someone with more money than brains.
Nice place, but the A/V install is one of the worst. Anyone else notice the placement of all the flatscreens? Yep, just like sitting in the front row of a movie theater. Have fun with your sore neck. You would think something as simple as that would have been addressed at this price point.
And the master bedroom opens directly into the dining room?!. Yuck. That’s the kind of layout you get in a prole’s small 1920’s bungalow out in West Lawn. Not a property intended to be “luxury”.
At these prices, I would demand a bedroom “wing” that is separate and a distance from the communal rooms.
What’s with the chandelier in that UGLY kitchen?
I have always wondered why some people think old money is worth more than new money. All it usually means is that the new money people actually earned their money and the old money people inherited it. I love the Palmolive, but I find the interior of this unit ugly and old fashioned. I also like Tump very much, although I agree that the finishes there are just above average (my own personal taste is contemporary, and I therefore prefer Trumps finishes to those in this unit in the Palmolive). The beauty of the Palmolive is that you were truly able to customize your home, and at Trump you were not. So it is not so much the choice you make (contemporary vs. traditional) but instead the array of choices you are afforded that separates the two.
Pete,
I’ve wondered that, too. The only thing I can think of is some people seem to have this romantic notion of some sort of aristocracy in America. In reality nobody has ‘blue blood’ and all it means is that old money can send their kids to the best schools to study useless topics like arts and humanities.
Afterall if you’re from money, you can still live a great lifestyle and be a harp player, for instance.
I love this place. It’s gorgeous- except for the white kitchen that I would instantly gut- and if I could live anywhere I wanted, this building would be the place.
It’s hard to say what the place is worth, and the only thing that will determine THAT is what someone is willing and able to cough up. I think I would pay up to $1.2 million, but we’ll see what someone who can actually afford it will pay.
Outside of not being on Central Park West this place is perfectly priced.
John
“Outside of not being on Central Park West this place is perfectly priced.”
If this were on CPW, even with the recent market, this would have sold long ago at the asking prices listed. 2800 sq ft on CPW, with a parking spot? Seriously.
Don’t knock the harp players of the world. I make good money playing jobs from time to time (It’s not my full time job).
This unit is stunning and in my opinion more indicitive of the finishes in the building. Too bad it’s nearly $3M and over 1000/sf
http://www.ksgmac.com/07107666/
It doesn’t look to be 2800 SF from the pictures, the photos make it look rather small (or it has VERY overscaled furniture). I think space is the true luxury, not just finishes, etc.
Anyone heard anything about the 3bd at 320 W Oakdale, Unit 901?
“This unit is stunning and in my opinion more indicitive of the finishes in the building. Too bad it’s nearly $3M and over 1000/sf”
I dunno, its OK… kitchen is cool but the rest of it looks like a damn Crate & Barrel catalog.
And what is the problem with that?
I like my Crate & Barrel Catalog. Better than the old people look of the first place.
I like C&B too, but I dunno there’s something about it, like its TOO crate and barrelly. lol!
Wow, the harp player reference was unnecessary. Very decent money can be made playing weddings, fundraisers, etc. Just because I choose not to make it my full-time job does not mean that I couldn’t.
annonny
from what i can 320 Oakdale #901 colosed for $382,500 in December, 2007. is there something that has happened subsequent to that?
Wow two harp players on one real estate blog, what are the odds?! LOL BOB! You angered the entire Chicagoland harp playing community with that comment!
pete9441 on February 24th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
“I also like Tump very much, although I agree that the finishes there are just above average (my own personal taste is contemporary, and I therefore prefer Trumps finishes to those in this unit in the Palmolive).”
A birdy told me the finishes there are the same cheap ones they put into crappy constructed new condo’s.
So why are 1br’s there work 600-800k again?
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t love Trump the building (in large part because the prices per sqft are insane), but your little birdie is doing some pretty crazy drugs.
Wolf, Miele, and Subzero appliances standard are in no way the same as the bottom line SS Kitchen Aid or GE that you find in most new “luxury” condos.
BOB-lol on the harp playing comment, what are the odds… I still think the Palmolive will attract a different rich than the Trump or other pretend luxury buildings. And I don’t mean that old money is better than new money by that. Donald Trump is all about excess and being seen and therefore I think his building will attract more young, flashy, “new rich” people: aka athletes (Rex Grossman), rappers or 21 yr olds that were just wired their trust fund that are looking for a bragging right as opposed to quality.
See, this is the problem Lauren. I don’t argue that the Trump is overpriced and appeals to a flashier new rich (if you want to call it that) demographic.
However, that doesn’t mean that the quality is bad. A condo in the Trump is going to be higher quality than most other condos out there. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it is so nice that it is worth, on a sqft basis, twice as much as any other building. But I don’t think you can argue that it isn’t nicer. It is just a questions if it is nicer enough (excuse the hideous grammar) to justify the substantially greater price tag.
Back to the topic generally, if you want to talk about places that are luxury but not totally obscene in their pricing I’m surprised that nobody has mention Walton on the Park. I don’t know what will happen since the place is just barely going up but the plans seemed to make it look like it’d be a luxury building at a reasonable (compared to Trump) price point.
Here’s my .02. Okay, so the chandelier is ugly. That’s easily swapped out. But back to the subject at hand. Architecturally the building is beautiful, and it’s spectacular when it’s lit up at night.
The location, I think, is incredible. The lobby is very tasteful, the standard finished were very nice, some units have incredible views and nice sized outdoor space that is not easily found in the area.
This particular unit was decked out. Perhaps it doesn’t appeal to your taste, but it works for the building.
I also think the building’s history adds to it’s appeal. If I could afford $2 Mil, I’d definitely consider moving to the Palmolive over most other “luxury” buildings downtown. Sure there’s the LaGrange building at Pearson and LSD. It looks nice, but I prefer the Palmolive’s location.
In a previous post I mentioned E. LSD. There are some nice buildings there, but I’d probably be one of the youngest people in the building, and I’m 47. I’ve gotta admit though that being able to access the bars at the Drake, directly from 179 E. LSD, is pretty appealing.
The word luxury is subjective. I’ve seen it used in buildings that have units under $200K with white ceramic tile baths. Hell, I’ve used the word when I rent my little studios and one bedroom apartments. I do, however, take some pride in my places and try to make them nice.
I think the building at Oak and Dearborn is a luxury building, but it may appeal to a different type of buyer (than the Palmolive) even though the price points appear to be in the same ballpark.
1550 N. State Parkway is a luxury building, but someone may prefer Trump because of the views, location, amenities and perceived style of the building.
I guess perception and expectations play a role in determining what one deems luxurious.
“anon (tfo) on February 24th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
“Outside of not being on Central Park West this place is perfectly priced.”
If this were on CPW, even with the recent market, this would have sold long ago at the asking prices listed. 2800 sq ft on CPW, with a parking spot? Seriously.”
Yep, would have sold in 2002 on the UWS, if it was truly on the park with views, 1998… my estimates using Miller Samuel’s awesone calculator…
http://www.millersamuel.com/data/report.php
Play around with that one long enough and Chicago is a downright steal 🙂
John
John
Units are not selling in the Palmolive (as with every other ‘luxury building’). There are endless options at 1.5 million on up in downtown Chicago. The problem….not nearly enough buyers, and that is not going to change for a long time.
The Palmolive is like a vault, very quiet and very private. You wouldnt know you have neighbors. The lobby sucks, but whatever.
Great location, great building, interior of unit seems kinda stuffy
At this location on Boul Mich I would prefer a higher floor.
“I love this place. It’s gorgeous- except for the white kitchen that I would instantly gut- and if I could live anywhere I wanted, this building would be the place.”
Laura- the white kitchen is actually now coming back “in” (after its last foray around 1990.)
You’re going to see the white kitchen all over the place in the next 10 years. The dark oak kitchens will be “out.”
Don’t confuse luxury with taste. Ok so you don’t like the furniture, the white kitchen, or the placement of the tv… not your taste. So what. When you buy it change it. I admit I haven’t seen this apartment and can’t tell you if the kitchen is 1 3/4″ solid hand painted maple (true quality in fine cabinet making), or low rent spray painted MDF (ala Trump’s crap). People who have real money, not always but generally, know the difference and can afford to be surrounded by the luxury of quality.
So let’s say then that the quality/luxury in the details is there, fine. The true luxury of this building to the people that can afford to buy here are their neighbors. Money’s a magnet to money, and that’s the one main thing this building (and others like it) has going for it. You’ve just paid a bundle for your apartment, and do you really want to see people NOT like you in the elevator, or would you rather strike up a conversation about the best restaurants in St. Barts this season?
The best streets in Lincoln Park are all monied, the best buildings in the Gold Coast are monied, always been that way, always will be. Even with the now global slowdown in real estate, monied buildings/neighborhoods always sell – it may longer and you may not get as much as you wanted, but a building like this ain’t going to see an auction anytime soon… or a neighbor who questions the chic factor of a white kitchen, and confuses Christian Liagre with Crate and Barrel. Now that’s true luxury.
7 years left on the property tax freeze is nice…
I been over-served in several units in this building. The HVAC system is under the beautiful hardwood floors. Indiana limestone exterior..(Not cheap curtain wall or painted concrete. Solid, quiet, impossible to breach the security. Unbeatable location. True luxury. Some owners of the larger units (say 10,000 SF) gutted the developer finishes and started over, similiar to the lucky few at 65 E. Goethe.
My 2 cents: Trump is like a CTS, this place is a Bentley. Palmolive and 65 E. Goethe are the only true LUXE, CALME ET VOLUPTE in Chicago.
kp:
You mention Walton on the Park is “barely going up”. I think they have already scrapped tower 2. Is tower 1 in trouble, ala Waterview?
White kitchens began their comeback about 2 years ago. Cherry/Expresso/ dark wood cabinets are so mid 2000’s!
White kitchens are not making a permanent comeback at all. It will be a short lived fad that will die out.
“You mention Walton on the Park is “barely going up”. I think they have already scrapped tower 2. Is tower 1 in trouble, ala Waterview?”
Construction is still ongoing for the first tower (at least it was as of last weekend, when I walked by and saw the construction workers.)
Fantastic points Jay and Paul….
The building is wonderful…I was a bit underwhelmed by the lobby sitting area and their cheapo lamps/furniture, but the board can change that if they really care.
Ah…maybe one day! LOL!
I’m fairly certain that the historic tax freeze doesn’t transfer to new owners, only originals.
I don’t see where the tax freeze would favor a purchaser anyway unless they correctly price in the negative effect of the big tax increase when it expires.
“and confuses Christian Liagre with Crate and Barrel. Now that’s true luxury.”
Jay now you are confusing money and taste. Far from being married to one another.
“and do you really want to see people NOT like you in the elevator”
Poetic, that made me laugh. No, at a true level of luxury, I don’t want to see anyone at all in my damn elevator nor talk about St. Barth because I don’t want you to know who I am and you also shouldn’t be in my damn elevator!
Now that’s luxury 🙂
“I don’t want to see anyone at all in my damn elevator nor talk about St. Barth ”
LMAO! I don’t know what it is about people that they have to talk about what locations they travel to (always exotic) or what meetings they have, but its my opinion that when people talk on elevators about these things its only for self-aggrandizement in front of strangers.
Seriously, I could care less if you’re flying to wherever for the weekend. Its not going to impact my day or life even at the atomic level. Also they never talk about flights to Pittsburgh or Harrisburg on the elevator, always crap that requires a passport.
I guess if you’re spending a boatload of money to go someplace you feel entitled to an audience?
LOL.. It’s a new paradigm Bob. I can now say things like “I was going to stay at the Four Seasons as usual, but you would not believe the deal I got on Priceline for a 2* on 4400 West Devon.”
Trump to me isn’t luxury… it is sub-part marketing a la Macy’s instead of true luxury like Marshall Field’s (Palmolive). Strange comparison but true.
this does NOT look like Crate & Barrel whatsoever!!! Please stop by the flagship folks… the furniture there is much more contemporary with smooth lines.
I live about a block and a half from this building in a rental building, wish I could afford this place, it really is the best in Chicago — even better, in my opinion than the co-ops on e lake shore (in terms of exclusivity). The palmolive is not only a historical landmark — it attracts a completely different class of residents than trump or spire attract — more refined, more money and very polite.
I may have found the ugliest apartment in the building
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/159-E-Walton-Pl-APT-6D-Chicago-IL-60611/2146962385_zpid/
Either it was decorated by a blind person with no sense of feng shui or it’s a bachelor bad with femine restoration hardware overtones.
Someone should talka about that dump in their elevator conversations!
$2.4 make me move price – more that $1.8!!!
I am thinking of buying in the Palmolive Building. However it has no parking on site, you call down for your car. Does anyone know anyone who lives there and whats it like as far as getting your car? A pain or????
The parking IS onsite in that building. I didn’t know they had a valet- but several buildings do.
In the Palmolive, with the kind of owners in there, I don’t see how it would be a pain. It just means extra cost for the owners.
I believe parking is onsite but yes, it is valet, and I believe the valet has to use a car elevator to access the car.
See Draper and Kramer website. Parking was added on ground/lower levels.
http://www.draperandkramer.com/palmolive.php
I see that a furnished one bedroom in the Palmolive just went under contract for rental for $4,500 per month. That seems pretty steep for 1,000 sq feet even for this building.