Will the Hot 2016 Market Be the Charm For This Streeterville 1-Bedroom? 550 N. St. Clair
This 1-bedroom in 550 N. St. Clair in Streeterville just came on the market.
But this unit had been listed in 2014 and was withdrawn, unsold, in early 2015.
At 1225 square feet, it used to be a 2-bedroom but was reconfigured to have just 1-bedroom and a 16×8 dining room.
The unit has 11 foot floor to ceiling windows which face south and west.
This building was constructed around the same time as Helmut Jahn’s 600 N. Fairbanks so it has similar exposed concrete ceilings and pillars.
The listing says the kitchen is a “chef’s kitchen” with Subzero, Gaggenau, and a Bosch oven and dishwasher along with modern gray cabinets and what look like stone counter tops.
The master bathroom is “spa-caliber” with a walk-in shower and a rare bathroom window (rare for a high rise, at least.)
It has all the features that buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and parking is available for $45,000.
Will the hot 2016 market make all the difference in getting this sold this time out?
D. Waveland Kendt at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2204: 1 bedroom, 1.5 baths, 1225 square feet
- Sold in October 2011 for $340,000 (doesn’t appear to include the parking)
- Originally listed in October 2014 for $550,000
- Withdrawn in February 2015
- Currently listed for $499,900 (plus $45,000 for the parking)
- Assessments of $487 a month (includes heat, a/c, gas, doorman, cable, exercise room, Internet, pool, exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $5619
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom: 14×12
- Dining room: 16×8
- Living room: 20×14
- Laundry room: 4×6
I looked at a lot of units in this building when the market was a lot cheaper back in 2011-12. What bugged me about all the “1 bed” and “2bed” units was the main living area – you almost HAVE to convert the second bedroom into a dining room because the main room/living room is so smashed into the kitchen. Most of the two beds I looked at just had a dining table in the living room and were using the second bedroom as a family/living room with a couch and tv. It was silly. If you’ve got a decent sized couch you feel like you’re sitting in the kitchen. I specifically remember sitting on a couch in the model unit and being able to touch the kitchen countertop.
This was fine when I was a college student renting a cheap CMK built unit 12 years ago but for 499k, not so much.
Idk about everyone else but a huge pet peeve for me is when developers assume it’s okay to basically combine your living room and kitchen room into one space. An “open” living room is one thing, but there needs to be some separation.
Hate the layout but it may sell to a suburban couple looking for a convenient city home or young professionals who don’t cook / care much about their living space .
Oops – just looked at the pictures. Either this is a layout I never saw or they reconfigured it a bit. My post makes sense if you look at this other 2 bed in the building:
http://m.koenigrubloff.com/mobile/homes-for-sale/550-n-st-clair-street-unit-2004-chicago-il-60611-174996614
Does anyone else think that if the ten year continues to drop that it could be a HUGE stimulus for the US economy?
Every homeowner will be refinancing- especially if rates drop below 3%. It could give homeowners a big chunk of extra money every month. I could see an even stronger surge in home remodeling, furniture buying, car buying etc. as they save $100, $200 a month on their mortgage payment. And it’s already pretty hot (at least on the home remodeling front.)
Unemployment is under 5% and record low mortgage rates? The economy will sizzle.
I think the 2/2 04 floor plan changes into a 2/1.5 around the 19th or 20th floor in this building.
This unit is one of the few layouts in the building that actually makes some sense.
considering that more people than ever rent now… no, not really
the folks that are financially stable enough to own certainly could use the extra hundred or two a month but to be honest…
Taxes and health insurance increases more than offset the cost of refinancing I just did @ 3.5% on a jumbo 30 year fixed and of course got my 2016-17 health insurance… yikes up more than the stupid money I’m saving on my refi… oh and then there’s the chicago property tax hike… I AM OUT OF HERE! In a few years when the property bubble gets too frothy
Depends on how much below 3. You’d have to be a choad to have a rate not in the 3’s already
New buyers are already stretched
Middle aged buyers are probably questioning if its a wise investment if they’re going to be leaving the ‘burbs and into the city or warmer climes in 10-15 years
HD will refi and take the savings and buy a crappy above group pool and a Green Egg knock-off
I fail to see where saving $200/month is going to get people to pop for a $30k renovation, but I might be the exception.
Mortgages for over half the people in Ireland are like 1%, we could easily be headed in that direction, just keep voting tax and spend democrat
“Mortgages for over half the people in Ireland are like 1%”
Bc they have a particular sort of ARM that is the ECB rate (currently zero) plus 100 bps.
It had NOTHING to do with government policy, and was the result of a new entrant to the market (Bank of Scotland) being dumb about the spread needed to be profitable.
right because overspending government policy isn’t what has been pushing the negative to 0% ECB rates
My property taxes just went up 30%. A decrease in interest rates might simply offset the tax increase. I expect the property taxes to increase even more than that next year considering the idiot mayor is not only going to increase our taxes again for the police pensions, but has also been given permission to increase taxes for the teacher pensions.
I just love paying money and getting nothing in return. It seems like every retired cop has a second home somewhere. It’s lovely that we get to support them in their ownership of multiple homes.
“pushing the negative to 0% ECB rates”
But if BoS hadn’t been moronic, the spread would have been more like 200 to 250, and you wouldn’t have the “1% OMG that so low” thing to cite to.
It is a highly unlikely event that US mortgage lenders will start offering mortgages at 100 bps over cost of funds. If they cut the prime spread from 300, then it might happen, I suppose.
This entire building is a disaster. I’m betting the developer still owns 30%+ of the units here because no one wants them. And they all have that depressing dark gray kitchen and random beams throughout the unit. If you look at the floor plans, they make absolutely no sense! They have beams in front of entrance doors and closets in the middle of rooms. The building exterior looks super cheap and the fitness center is a joke.
My friend lived in this building before I knew him. He said he liked it, but it was expensive. He ended up moving to Old Town where he felt he could get more for the money.
you’re so right JohnnyU, so right! My interest rate is in the 6’s, so yeah, I’m a choad!!!
johnnyu,
I just bought this pool! It’s awesome and solid, holds up well. You may want to check it out yourself at Menards, great value.
http://www.menards.com/main/health-wellness/pools-spas-saunas/pools-accessories/proseries-trade-26-x-52-frame-pool/p-1444451037223-c-10137.htm?tid=-602999921914654082
I know this doesn’t happen often, but in this building, the price appreciation comes from the beautiful and quality fixtures! The oven and dishwasher are only going up in value, not down. And that bathroom is timeless and classic, it is worth more today than it was yesterday. What do you think JohnnyU?
I’ve seen worse places for more money.
This will probably hit all the buttons for an emptynester couple from Huntley, Elburn, Oswego, etc.
In regards to the pool,
First off, never buy anything from Menards. The family/company are complete sum and asshats
Second It’s only awesome if you can entice Ms Jan Terri over for a dip. As for the interest rate, I stand by my comment
GETTING MY BIKINI ON JOHNNYU!!!
XXOO
“This will probably hit all the buttons for an emptynester couple from Huntley, Elburn, Oswego, etc.
No offense JohnnyU but you must not know any empty nesters from McHenry/kane or Kendall county, which is OK. I live out here so I know lots of people from out there. They come over for BBQ’s and we all swim in my new pool from Menards.
People who live that FAR out don’t suddenly say “OH I WANT TO MOVE TO CHICAGO.” in fact, these people HATE Chicago, they nearly all vote Republican, and they reason they moved to whitopia is precisely to get AWAY from Chicago. They’d have to out of their mind to suddenly spend $500k on a one bedroom apartment in Chicago. For example, my aunt who lives in one of those counties once told me that she spends more time in Paris than Chicago. I have a client, from one of those NW suburbs off 14, who pounded angrily pounded his fists on the table when I told him he had to come to downtown Chicago to litigate a property dispute.
I think you are confused. When your aunt was mentioning spending more time in Paris, she was talking about Paris, Il not Paris Fr.
I know Emptynesters from Elburn and Owsego that moved into the city.
Your new name should be Nostradumbass
“Nostradumbass”
Good one! Keep up the good work!
Actually, HD’s pretty much on the money. My parents are suburban empty-nest Baby Boomers and have no desire to move to Chicago. One is a rabid Republican who wants nothing to do with Chicago politics, and he’s representative of his contemporaries. They’re all UMC types who are retiring on the fruits of their labor as they’ll tell you.
The idea of trading their large homes for a shoe box in Chicago is not appealing to them. Heck, I know someone in that group who got rid of their Florida condo for a small SFH because they didn’t like apartment style living.
So, sure, there are empty nesters moving into Chicago, but they’re not going do to it in droves. They’ll take advantage of all of the senior tax exemptions and freezes for property taxes while enjoying their paid-off homes. Why add to costs when you don’t have to?
another empty nester aunt of mine did move to Chicago for a few years, and then quickly traded her shoebox for a much larger, and much nicer condo, once again, in one of those NW suburbs off NW Highway. She told me that if she wants to go to Chicago she can take the Metra twice a year, and she has no reason to live there anymore. She’s not a (R) but definitely isn’t a Chicago (D).
“They’ll take advantage of all of the senior tax exemptions and freezes for property taxes while enjoying their paid-off homes. Why add to costs when you don’t have to?”
Because they don’t want to deal with having stairs in their homes, lawns, roofs, new windows, out of date kitchens, too big of space, huge heating and cooling bills etc.
But, I agree that the city isn’t their only option. For many, they buy in the new townhouse subdivisions in the burbs. They are building many of them with first floor master suites so that the Baby Boomers don’t have to do the stairs.
“I expect the property taxes to increase even more than that next year considering the idiot mayor is not only going to increase our taxes again for the police pensions, but has also been given permission to increase taxes for the teacher pensions.”
It’s not the mayor’s fault. It’s 30+ years of fiscal mismanagement and pensions that are now underfunded. All of this has been known for decades and finally the piper must be paid. The money has to come from somewhere. Either property or sales taxes must be raised because a $500 million payment was coming due. No way to get that kind of money quickly except a tax increase.
Chicago isn’t alone. The Tribune did that study like 2 years ago that listed all the Illinois cities that also have underfunded pensions. There were many in the suburbs that were even more underfunded than Chicago’s. Taxes will rise there too.
Chicago is still actually taxed at a low rate compared to many other major US cities, as is Illinois.
“Depends on how much below 3. You’d have to be a choad to have a rate not in the 3’s already”
Lots of people are still in the 4s. It doesn’t make sense to refi if you’re at 4.25% and it’s 3.75% because the costs of doing so override the benefits. But all the way down to 3.25% or 3%? Sure- I’ll refi at those rates.
The stimulus they did during the Great Recession where they waived that employer tax (just $100 per person so $1200 a year) was a big stimulus. It pushed through billions into the economy.
So if you refi your mortgage and suddenly have more money in your pocket, usually, Americans will spend it. Not everyone owns a home or will refi, but enough probably would that it could provide a huge stimulus worth billions of dollars to the economy. The Fed doesn’t even need to do QE to get the boost.
“I AM OUT OF HERE! In a few years when the property bubble gets too frothy”
Where will you go?
California with its $1 million homes and 11% state income tax?
Or Washington state- say- Seattle with its $650,000 1200 square foot “starter” homes?
Dallas- with its 90 minute commute to your $400,000 4,000 new mansion in the suburbs?
I love it that everyone always thinks the grass is greener.
Oh- I know.
St Louis.
That’s where sonies will go. You could cash in here and buy more for your money there. Better winters too.
“California with its $1 million homes and 11% state income tax?”
Well, not really. If you’re talking northern california / bay area, 1 million dollars isn’t going to get you much of a home. In Southern california, if you’re talking about the decent neighborhoods of los angeles and san diego, maybe.
I’ve lived on both coasts and in chicago and I don’t think any other major city gives you as much ‘bang for your buck’ – even with all the cost increases recently. We’ve been spoiled with cheap rent and property value for a while, and some of this , in my opinion, is chicago ‘catching up’ to where it should be.
Ruiz, as much as I want to believe that Chicago is “catching up” with the coast cities, it’s not. The other cities are getting even more expensive. It’s all relative.
“Lots of people are still in the 4s. It doesn’t make sense to refi if you’re at 4.25% and it’s 3.75% because the costs of doing so override the benefits. But all the way down to 3.25% or 3%? Sure- I’ll refi at those rates.”
Thanks for restating what I said
“The stimulus they did during the Great Recession where they waived that employer tax (just $100 per person so $1200 a year) was a big stimulus. It pushed through billions into the economy.
So if you refi your mortgage and suddenly have more money in your pocket, usually, Americans will spend it. Not everyone owns a home or will refi, but enough probably would that it could provide a huge stimulus worth billions of dollars to the economy. The Fed doesn’t even need to do QE to get the boost.”
Thats not even an Apples to Oranges comparison.
On the Mortgage savings – dropping 0.75% on a $350k mortgage is $150/mo. Better than a stick in the eye, but shouldn’t make someone feel like they can run out and blow $40k on a kitchen remodel. IMO for someone with that Mortgage, and extra $150/mo is background noise
Where will you go?
Great job picking horrible examples
There are a lot of options out there if you look
“It’s not the mayor’s fault. It’s 30+ years of fiscal mismanagement and pensions that are now underfunded.”
Not *this* mayor’s fault certainly, but a mayor–it is DALEY’s fault.
I don’t understand not saying it *every* time–the fiscal disaster we have now can be laid at the feet of a single person, which is pretty damn rare.
“Where will you go?
…
There are a lot of options out there if you look”
Ok, name three. To count, it can’t be podunk, and can’t have worse weather than Chicago.
“It’s not the mayor’s fault. It’s 30+ years of fiscal mismanagement and pensions that are now underfunded. All of this has been known for decades and finally the piper must be paid. The money has to come from somewhere. Either property or sales taxes must be raised because a $500 million payment was coming due. No way to get that kind of money quickly except a tax increase.”
Let the pension funds go bankrupt. I didn’t promise these people a pension. Convert them to a lump sum payment and be done with it. I know the constitution says that we can’t change their benefits, but what if the city just didn’t pay and then declared bankruptcy? I don’t understand why I’m on the hook to pay for pensions, when I’ll never get a pension myself.
If you all are looking for somewhere to move, Omaha is quite nice.
“what if the city just didn’t pay and then declared bankruptcy?”
Can’t declare BK under state law as it stands, so Springfield would have to change the law. And then, with the way BK law works for munis, the IL Constitution is likely to be found to be controlling. Might result in a major re-write of the retiree healthcare, tho.
“Ok, name three. To count, it can’t be podunk, and can’t have worse weather than Chicago.”
It depends on what you want. If you don’t mind a smaller city, , There are a few places , but all have drawbacks :
1. Austin – good weather, food , concerts , etc. still not super cheap living, still hillbillies around, and you have to live in Texas
2. San Diego – real estate as expensive as Chicago or a little more so , great weather and food, but California taxes and cost of living
That’s really it for me. I like Houston, Dallas , Portland as well but would never live there.
” I don’t understand why I’m on the hook to pay for pensions, when I’ll never get a pension myself.”
I don’t get it either. All these people retire earlier than average, then go get another job while they collect their pensions on the side. I’ve seen cops, nurses, docs do this all on cook county’s dime. F that – why is this my problem?
Don’t even get me started on jacking up our taxes so these people can move out of state and not work! FUCKA YOU!!!!!
I’m moving to Nevada the nice mountainy part fuck this shit and fuck these taxes!
LOL there is zero chance I would ever move to St. Louis, that town sucks!
I’m tempted by Phoenix. The taxes are very low and I could buy a large house with a pool for my dogs for the same price as my condo. There are more religious wackos there than in Chicago though.
There is a dog museum in St. Louis. I also love the city museum. That city is corrupt and violent though, so I’d rather just stay in Chicago.
I want to go to a smaller town. The problem is a lot of the ones that still have some measure of culture/arts/dining and beautiful surroundings aren’t really all that cheap and it can be difficult to make a living.
I’ve been eyeing Asheville, NC. I’d also move to Martha’s Vineyard full time if I could. Bend, OR is nice as well.
“2. San Diego”
Riz: Johnny Utah already excluded Cali as a “horrible example”. Cali, Seattle, Dallas and St Louis are horrible, much of the metro east coast is excluded, too, for not being cheaper in a combo of housing costs and taxes.
I’m not saying there are not places that qualify, but I’d like to see a part of Johnny’s list.
“The problem is a lot of the ones that still have some measure of culture/arts/dining and beautiful surroundings aren’t really all that cheap and it can be difficult to make a living.”
Hence: No podunk.
Yes, if you have a 100% internet based career (or the FU number in the bank) and can truly live anywhere, great option. For the 905% of us who are working stiffs, notsomuch.
Anyone know what the fuck is up with Redfin’s photos? When you first land on a property page, it acts as if there are no photos.
But if you refresh, voila, the navigation buttons and all the photos show up. WTF Redfin?
“But if you refresh, voila, the navigation buttons and all the photos show up. WTF Redfin?”
Works for me. User error.
happens to me sometimes, opening it in a new window helps
I’ve always walked past this building amazed at how ugly it is because of the parking podium.
I personally would never leave Chicago, not for taxes anyway. I’m hopeful this is short-term pain that we can move on from if the fiscal situation ever truly get balanced. I think Rahm is doing a good job in this area of his responsibilities. He was dealt a bad hand for sure.
Just got my 2nd installment in the mail, 6% increase from last year which probably just means I was overpaying these past 3 years. But at least I didn’t feel the “sticker shock” I was expecting.
I like 550 St Clair and I did look at several of the 3 bedroom units. I liked flexibility of the floor plans and the floor to ceiling windows throughout. The European style “wall kitchen” I thought was very attractive and extremely functional. Bathrooms in all the units I looked at had over the top finishes. The building and units do have a “minimalist” feel and look to them which works for me, but I know it’s not for everyone. I actually regret that I didn’t buy back in 2011 when I was looking.
“I’m hopeful this is short-term pain”
Ummm…This is very much a long term problem by definition.
“I personally would never leave Chicago, not for taxes anyway. I’m hopeful this is short-term pain that we can move on from if the fiscal situation ever truly get balanced. ”
1) Thats very stupid
2) It will be permanent pain, the machine can’t help itself!
“I’ve been eyeing Asheville, NC. I’d also move to Martha’s Vineyard full time if I could. Bend, OR is nice as well.”
That’s quite the eclectic mix.
Ok, name three. To count, it can’t be podunk, and can’t have worse weather than Chicago.
So you don’t pull a HD and move the Goal posts later
Not Podunk – major league sports team
Chicago’s weather blows so that’s easy
Top of my head
Portland
Minneapolis
Kansas City (Kansas)
Nashville
Salt Lake City
Denver/Ft Collins
I don’t change goalposts; and your cities a sucker my cities a creep
KC? Salt lame city where they don’t sell high alcohol beer? Minneapolis is colder than chicago for longer periods of time. do you even travel?
Florida keys
Madison (same weather)
Burlington
Oh gawd, Minneapolis?
Miami
Antibes
St Croix
“I’m moving to Nevada the nice mountainy part fuck this shit and fuck these taxes!”
You mean Reno? 😉
“San Diego – real estate as expensive as Chicago or a little more so”
Riz- have you been there lately? Real estate prices double or triple (or more) what it costs to live in Chicago.
“If you all are looking for somewhere to move, Omaha is quite nice.”
I’ve heard that! They are really renovating the downtown. And I’ve heard the winters aren’t nearly as bad as you think.
“Not *this* mayor’s fault certainly, but a mayor–it is DALEY’s fault.”
Of course. I’m sure this is why he suddenly decided to leave office. He knew that only hard decisions would have to be made in the next 10 years and didn’t want to be in office to actually make them (like raising taxes and dealing with the fallout from his awful deal on the parking meters.)
He left it to all of the next several mayors to try and clean it up.
“On the Mortgage savings – dropping 0.75% on a $350k mortgage is $150/mo. Better than a stick in the eye, but shouldn’t make someone feel like they can run out and blow $40k on a kitchen remodel. IMO for someone with that Mortgage, and extra $150/mo is background noise”
That’s not what economists find. Even the lower gas prices was a stimulus and that was only about $100 a month. Restaurants were smoking hot a few months ago. You WILL eat out more. You go to that baseball game. You feel good enough to take the whole family to the movies. You might even book a vacation. Some people cash in their car and will get a more expensive one.
It’s amazing what even just $100 a month will do to the psyche.
“Well, not really. If you’re talking northern california / bay area, 1 million dollars isn’t going to get you much of a home.”
You can live just fine in Oakland with a million dollar budget. Same in Pleasanton, Concord, Point Richmond and many other cities in between. East Bay, while it has gone up in price, isn’t at the million dollar level yet. Average home price in Contra Costa County is like $560,000.
Is that absurd for CCC? Of course it is. That would be like homes in Plainfield all selling for $500,000 or $600,000. But it’s not at the million dollar level in those counties.
Peninsula and San Francisco are awful. Marin County has been very expensive for at least 20- 25 years. Nothing new there. You could easily buy in Napa and Sonoma with a million dollar budget. It might not be your dream winery, but you could certainly buy something pretty decent there.
I don’t change goalposts; and your cities a sucker my cities a creep
KC? Salt lame city where they don’t sell high alcohol beer? Minneapolis is colder than chicago for longer periods of time. do you even travel?
I guess someone had a couple of Zimas in their pool last night
Oh gawd, Minneapolis?
Miami
Antibes
St Croix
Yes, Mpls. Winters colder but not as grey as Chicago.
Less crime
Lower cost of living
STX is better than Chicago, but would qualify as Podunk by Anon’s standards
You can live just fine in Oakland with a million dollar budget. Same in Pleasanton, Concord, Point Richmond and many other cities in between. East Bay, while it has gone up in price, isn’t at the million dollar level yet. Average home price in Contra Costa County is like $560,000.”
Oakland really sucks Sabrina. The parts of it that are decent ( like Oakland hills, merrit) are pretty darn expensive. Sure you can buy something there or Richmond – but the “nice” parts of the east bay ( like walnut creek ) are hellishly expensive. And yes, you can buy SOMETHING for 500k – but it would be a 1200 square foot ranch crap house that would probably cost you 150k in Plainfield. No comparison to Bay Area living costs in my opinion.
And yeah I’ve been to SD lately. Wouldn’t say 2-3 times Chicago real estate cost – unless you’re looking at only La Jolla or Coronado. When you compare the average suburbs to Chicago they are about 1.5x Chicago price. Definitely a premium but a reasonable one I think
That’s not what economists find. Even the lower gas prices was a stimulus and that was only about $100 a month. Restaurants were smoking hot a few months ago. You WILL eat out more. You go to that baseball game. You feel good enough to take the whole family to the movies. You might even book a vacation. Some people cash in their car and will get a more expensive one.
It’s amazing what even just $100 a month will do to the psyche.
You you selectively respond to portions of the post Vs reading in full?
To someone making $40k/yr, a $100/mo is going to feel like a lot of money. And economist are correct these folks will spend it
But these folks making $40k/yr aint qualifying for a $350k mortgage so completely outside of my comment/observation and they aint going to save $150/mo refinancing
I wouldn’t even consider anything off JohnnyU’s list other than Portland. If your standards are actually that low there’s any number of cheaper places to move to.
Portland is expensive. Condos are more expensive than Chicago. Wife had a job opportunity there and we were giving it some serious consideration. Houses run about $750-$1 million plus in the better inner city neighborhoods.
In most of the cities if you want to live around other professionals in a gentrified neighborhood that is either in the city or has a good commute time, you will not be saving a ton of money vs Chicago in my experience.
Also considered moving to my home city of Atlanta. Houses in the better neighborhoods within the city are $750-$1 million. On average, the homes are better than what I’d get say in Chicago with that budget, but not really much different from what I can get in Oak Park. However, if you want to go to outer burbs, you can buy one of those soulless stucco 3500 sqft McMansions with a circular driveway and a Porte-cochère for less than $400k.
Russ, I love it when you speak French…
“You mean Reno?”
maaaaaybe
SW Reno
shh!
“In most of the cities if you want to live around other professionals in a gentrified neighborhood that is either in the city or has a good commute time, you will not be saving a ton of money vs Chicago in my experience.”
This.
Except for one thing–one can live in the burbs in most of those other cities, and have a much shorter *driving* commute to downtown than one would from a comparable Chicago burb–of course, in Chicago, you can take the train, and have a comparable commute time to driving in (say) MSP.
“million dollar budget”
I love how this is tossed around like it is nothing. What % of population are we talking that can qualify for this?
Personally love SD, but prefer to cheap my housing at sub 20% of income. I’ll deal with the 7 days of snow.
LC, the % of people who can afford that price point is high enough so that is what it takes if you want to live in certain areas of major cities. My point was that this is fairly consistent across major urban centers even in smaller cities.
If you want a lower cost of living, you pretty much have to move to Podunk and give up all the urban amenities that many like such as restaurants, public transportation, short commutes, coffee shops on the corner, etc.
@Russ,
Valid point. It is just amazing to me how many properties sell at this price point, especially in CA. Are there that many people making this much $? Are people severely over extending themselves? Inheritance?
I would imagine at least 350k HHI in order to comfortably swing a $1mm property and to have at least 200-250k down.
LC,
To afford a million dollar home, you probably need a 300kish per year income. There are roughly what – 1 million households and a little under 3 million people in Chicago?
Of the 1 million households, probably 3% earn around 300k or more. I believe to be too 1 percent in Chicago you have to earn around 500k, so just guesstimating here. 3 percent of 1 million households is 30 thousand people. That’s a lot of people that could potentially afford a million dollar home.
Even if you cut that number in half, it’s a lot. So a lot of people can afford it. Not even counting those that just inherited a lot of made money on real estate Etc that have lower household incomes.
*or made money on real estate
Ps before all the haters come out –
I’m not saying that earning 300k a year means it’s a smart idea to buy a million dollar home. Just saying if the house was a priority and you had the 20% or more down payment, you could probably swing ( although not comfortably ) the mortgage for the house. I’d say it’s more likely people buying million dollar homes earn 400k + – of which I think there are probably a decent amount in Chicago.
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160208/gold-coast/chicago-area-number-of-millionaire-housholds-is-up
Interesting article. Not saying million in assets means you can run out and buy a million dollar home, but gives you an idea.
Appreciate it Riz.
You guys are way conservative-if you have 300K income and 20% down and minimal debt you can easily qualify for well over a million dollar home. I am sure plenty are tempted.
“You guys are way conservative-if you have 300K income and 20% down and minimal debt you can easily qualify for well over a million dollar home. I am sure plenty are tempted.”
I wouldn’t call it conservative as much as being weary of haters.
I earn roughly twice that and am close to having 20% down for a home. The CC cast told me I was bonkers for thinking I could afford a home that was 1.5. The general jargon here is that only people with huge inheritances, no debt, and people that ‘don’t need to make a down payment’ buy million dollar homes. Just saying that’s malarkey.
Sabrina posted on here not that long ago that it’s not a sensible argument that ‘everyone is making six figures or more’ – Just wanted to point out that literally thousands of households in the city are at that level or higher.
The way look at it if you earn in the top five percent locally HHI then you damn well ought to be able to afford a SFH in a decent hood if you’te more or less debt free and have 20% to put down. Who the hell else is buying them if not? Anyway, 1.5m is totally doable on 600K if you have your head screwed on right.
Homedelte, you are funny as hell. You just coined another demographic term- “whitopia”.
Ok in all reality, let’s get real. Where is the hard data that suggests that empty nesters from the suburbs are buying up expensive houses and condos in Chicago? The data simply does not exist. It is sort of like the talking point of “wealthy Millennials are buying up upscale properties”. Once again, the data of wealthy Millennials buying up properties does not exist. It is the talking point of real estate agent charlatans.
ha I wish I made up whitetopia but I didn’t. however I do take credit for the term peckerwood as applied to white supremeist prison gangs.
“Where is the hard data that suggests that empty nesters from the suburbs are buying up expensive houses and condos in Chicago? ”
Just recently, an empty nester couple from the burbs bought a sfh on my street.
Paid over ask and under contract in a day.
“Just recently, an empty nester couple from the burbs bought a sfh on my street.”
Why would a baby boomer/empty nester who is most likely retired (or about to be) buy a SFH?
That is not the “story” that has been sold. They are trading in the house/lawn/maintenance to buy townhouses and condos.
“I earn roughly twice that and am close to having 20% down for a home.”
Wait a minute- you’re earning $600,000 suddenly? That wasn’t the story before.
Most doctors don’t earn that much money- but good for you. You are in a very small elite group.
“Just wanted to point out that literally thousands of households in the city are at that level or higher.”
The city has millions of residents. It’s a very small sliver that makes six figures. We have gone over this. Just because you live in Southport, doesn’t mean the city is Southport (with its $3 million houses.)
Get out and explore more. Drive over to Midway- through the neighborhoods. Tell me how many are making six figures. And yes- we have also discussed how two CPS teachers or police or whatnot could, combined, make six figures. Sure. That’s “household” incomes which is different from individual incomes.
How many people in the ENTIRE Chicago area can afford a house that’s over $2 million?
It’s not many and sales of those properties are NOT the norm.
Here’s the stats courtesy of Crains for the first half of this year in the 6-county area (would be even smaller numbers if just talking about Chicago proper):
Sales over $2 million: 201
Total home sales: 54,409
That is why this bracket is called the “1%”.
“Interesting article. Not saying million in assets means you can run out and buy a million dollar home, but gives you an idea.”
It means no such thing. And the article doesn’t say what “investable assets” means. Does that include a house? Or is that the pension and 401k?
If so- then of course the numbers in the Chicago area are going up. The Baby Boomers are starting to retire. Their retirement funds are reaching their maximum levels now AND real estate prices have reached past peak again. So their “assets” should be at their highest value ever just as they are leaving the work force after 40 to 50 years.
I never thought I’d say this but Riz is the doctor example in the Millionaire Next Door personified. Earns big income but spends it too. Versus the guy who owned a taco restaurant for 30 years and lives in a middle class suburb and kept his cars for 20 years. Has plenty of cash now for retirement. Buys a small townhouse in Arizona to escape the winters. Still shops at Walmart and Target. Could be a millionaire due to savings but no one knows it.
“Of the 1 million households, probably 3% earn around 300k or more”
The top 5% of all income earners are those that earn over $206,568 in the United States. Over $300,000? The number drops even lower. I would be surprised if it was the top 3%. Probably 1.5% or so.
But you’re focusing on the wrong thing. The truly wealthy don’t care about “income.” That’s not where their wealth comes from. Only the upper middle class cares about “income.”
“Are people severely over extending themselves? Inheritance?”
In California, it is severely overextending themselves (pre-bust it was 60% to 70% of take home on the house payment. Is it any wonder we had a foreclosure crisis?)
But 50% of take home is still considered “normal” in California.
There’s some inheritance if your parents were lucky enough to be California natives and bought a property in 1975 and didn’t heloc it to all hell. I’ve seen friends inherit $1 million or more from just selling the parental home. (depends on how many siblings you have to split it with too.)
“To someone making $40k/yr, a $100/mo is going to feel like a lot of money. And economist are correct these folks will spend it”
Actually the guy with the big expensive SUV (you know, the one that costs $80,000) actually REALLY noticed the drop in gas prices. They aren’t stupid just because they have more money. Instead of spending $85 to fill up they’re spending half that. And yes- the “extra” is being spent (Americans are never one to save a dime). It’s been an economic stimulus across all economic classes.
And the re-fis that are going on will be the same. I haven’t seen the numbers yet but I’m sure it will probably pump another $70 to $80 billion in stimulus into the economy.
Not too shabby. People will feel richer. Will buy that couch or new car.
“Sure you can buy something there or Richmond – but the “nice” parts of the east bay ( like walnut creek ) are hellishly expensive.”
Riz- you’ve never lived there so you have no idea what the “nice” parts of Oakland are. There are plenty and a million dollars still takes you pretty far.
Once again, you are acting like EVERYONE is a millionaire. They aren’t. Even in the magical state of California. In fact, 99% of them aren’t even in the Bay Area. That’s why it sucks to live there. The day to day struggle just to survive with housing costs at those levels is beyond belief to anyone who lives in the Chicago GreenZone.
Also- I said Point Richmond, NOT Richmond. Two different cities. One is gorgeous with lovely Victorians built up on the hill. They’ve filmed many movies there. Richmond is in bankruptcy, isn’t it? (or wants to be.)
“The top 5% of all income earners are those that earn over $206,568 in the United States. Over $300,000? The number drops even lower. I would be surprised if it was the top 3%. Probably 1.5% or so.”
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/income-rank/
“the article doesn’t say what “investable assets” means.”
No, but it does have a pretty well defined meaning.
“Does that include a house?”
Um, no, it doesn’t. If the author were including that, it would be misleading.
“Or is that the pension”
Again, not under any ‘normal’ understanding of “investable assets”.
“and 401k?”
This does (almost always) count as “investable assets”, even tho the investment control that is intended to be part of the definition isn’t really there.
“Point Richmond, NOT Richmond. Two different cities.”
In the same way as Lincoln Park is a different city from Chicago.
Oh, wait…
[chuk cnn link]
But that’s household income, not individual. So it can be ignored.
We have the hard data in regards to how much individuals and households earn. When you look at that piece of data and integrate it with the value of single family houses, condos, etc. you come to the conclusion that once again, people are stretching themselves all over again.
We are at the point of if we have any sort of economic hiccup then the house of cards is going to fall apart all over again.
In our culture, spending every single dime you have in order to maintain an image of wealth and opulence is ingrained. I really thought that after our last severe “Great Recession” that finally people would change their behavior. But surely I was wrong and I admit it.
damn I still got a ways to go to be totally reviled
“Why would a baby boomer/empty nester who is most likely retired (or about to be) buy a SFH?…That is not the “story” that has been sold. They are trading in the house/lawn/maintenance to buy townhouses and condos.”
to be more specific, this was an updated cottage and not some huge new construction mcmansion. they’re not quite ready to fully downsize to a condo. they have a dog so wanted a small yard. outdoor maintenance is relatively easy for a city home or you just hire it out for much less than what you were paying in the burbs.
“to be more specific, this was an updated cottage and not some huge new construction mcmansion. they’re not quite ready to fully downsize to a condo. they have a dog so wanted a small yard. outdoor maintenance is relatively easy for a city home or you just hire it out for much less than what you were paying in the burbs”
+1
The Webber Summit and Green Egg aint fitting on a 6 X 12 patio
speaking of patios, I need some help from the chaterrati
looking for a patio set, lounge style furniture… anyone have any good places or websites? can be used I honestly don’t care that much long as its in decent condition…
I just feel like I’m going to get raped by these online prices, they are ridiculous for some chinsy tube framed, plastic wicker with canvas seats made in china!
“I just feel like I’m going to get raped by these online prices”
http://www.craigslist.org
Then you can get raped for real…
yeah trying to NOT get raped here, at all…
“looking for a patio set”
check out Home Decorators. I bought an all wood dining set from there it’s really solid. It’s actually a little too heavy for my parents when they visit. it was a PITA putting it together though.
“In the same way as Lincoln Park is a different city from Chicago.”
You’ve obviously never been there either. It’s governed by Richmond- but it’s completely separated from the rest of the town and is delightful and wonderful. Please visit when you get a chance. You may want to move there.
No- not in the same way as Lincoln Park.
I would put it more in line with, say, Old Historic Edgebrook or an area like that. You don’t know you’re in Chicago there.
For the love of god anon (tfo).
Why don’t YOU tell us what investable asset is then? If so many people have over $1 million and it doesn’t include anything but a 401k why don’t they just say “401k”?
And, frankly, we know from Fidelity and others that it can’t possibly be only the 401k because there aren’t enough people with that much money IN a 401k.
By the way- investable assets can certainly mean real estate, if you own a condo downtown and have a house in the suburbs.
As usual, chuk comments on nothing having to do with actual real estate on this site.
Yawn.
Let’s talk about things that matter- like housing is soaring and in another bubble. It’s so hot it’s on fire. It’s so hot 2/2s are now selling for $600,000 in Lakeview and Lincoln Park (and coming soon to a neighborhood near you.)
“ut that’s household income, not individual. So it can be ignored.”
I never said it could be ignored. With most women working now, household income is going to be higher than individual incomes. How do you think all those people are buying $500,000 homes in Park Ridge? On just the husband’s paltry $90,000 salary? No. The wife makes $50,000 to $60,000 and that’s how they afford it.
But Riz wasn’t talking about households. He kept saying “income” because all doctors are making $300,000+ in Chicago, and the rest of the country. All doctors are rich.
“As usual, chuk comments on nothing having to do with actual real estate on this site.”
You are welcome for my very useful link. Ingrate.
”
But Riz wasn’t talking about households. He kept saying “income” because all doctors are making $300,000+ in Chicago, and the rest of the country. All doctors are rich. ”
Did a doctor hurt your feelings or something? Jeez. I never said any of that. I simply gave links with FACTUAL information and links demonstrating there are thousands of HOUSEHOLDS in Chicago that have an annual income of 300k or more, meaning they can likely COULD ” afford” or at least mortgage a million dollar home.
I don’t think that’s a stretch. Even if that’s “1%” of households in Chicago – it’s thousands and thousands of families. Do you disagree with that?
Or are you intent on just proving I’m a broke doctor with no retirement savings who spends all his money on cars and country clubs. Yeesh. Give it a break. Yeah, my loca 7-11 owner had much more money than me and all my physician friends because we are idiots with no savings or financial sense. He’s hard working and counts his pennies and is so much better than us. Happy? Good god.
”
Wait a minute- you’re earning $600,000 suddenly? That wasn’t the story before.
Most doctors don’t earn that much money- but good for you.”
My wife is also a working professional so I was referencing dual income stats. But I’m not too far if, if that makes any difference.
Sabrina did you even see my link?
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20160208/gold-coast/chicago-area-number-of-millionaire-housholds-is-up
33000 people with a net worth of 5 mil or more in Chicago. Tell me again that nobody can afford these million dollar homes ?
I’m reading is as Chicagoland not Chicago proper
“Why don’t YOU tell us what investable asset is then?”
Jeebus, I guess you don’t have tehgoogle on your intertubez machine??
Here is one explanation that’s pretty middle of the road:
“Investable assets include the balances held in your bank accounts, certificates of deposit, mutual funds, stocks and bonds. Insurance contracts with a cash value are also regarded as investable assets, as are funds held in retirement accounts. Real estate assets are normally classified as illiquid because you cannot necessarily sell your home at any given time. Your ownership share in a private company also represents an illiquid or noninvestable asset because you cannot always find someone willing to buy your share. Other types of property, such as cars and jewelry, are also illiquid, as are some long-term securities that you cannot liquidate for a number of years.”
“I would put it more in line with, say, Old Historic Edgebrook or an area like that. ”
Ok, so you admit that it is the SAME CITY, but that it feels extremely different from the rest of the SAME CITY.
So, when you wrote “I said Point Richmond, NOT Richmond. Two different cities.” you were incorrect. Richmond’s possible bankruptcy would also affect Point Richmond, which is just a neighborhood in Richmond.
Glad that’s settled.
“This Map Shows the Average Income of the Top 1% by Location”
http://www.visualcapitalist.com/map-shows-average-income-top-1-percent-location/
“Sabrina did you even see my link?”
Yes. It’s not IN Chicago. It’s the entire metro area of millions of people.
Here’s what investable assets means according to Phoenix marketing:
“The annual study of where the wealthy live counts a household as a millionaire if it has more than $1 million in investable assets, which includes stocks, bonds and savings accounts but excludes the value of real estate and funds tied up in retirement accounts.”
Here’s the Chicago metropolitan area data for 2015 of those with $1 million or more:
210,977 or 6% of all households, up 9728 households from 2014.
The numbers will be even higher for 2016 because the stock market is soaring.
None of these numbers tell you anything about who can “afford” to buy a million dollar house as the Millionaire Next Door tells you, from all of their data, that most millionaires live in very modest homes of $300,000 to $500,000. They don’t spend their money on a mortgage.
“is 30 thousand people.”
There are 9.5 million people in the Chicago metro area.
Just Glencoe, Winnetka and Wilmette alone are over 50,000 people.
So those 3% you keep referring to is a really, really small percentage which is why there are just 200 homes that have sold in the last 6 months for over $2 million in the entire Chicago metro area.
The number of homes that sells for over $1 million is also very small.
Again, if you live in Southport or East Lincoln Park, you think EVERYONE lives in those neighborhoods when it is YOU who is in the minority and the middle and lower classes who are the majority.
Living on a street with $3 million homes is rare. It’s NOT the norm in the Chicagoland area.
“Yeah, my loca 7-11 owner had much more money than me and all my physician friends because we are idiots with no savings or financial sense. He’s hard working and counts his pennies and is so much better than us.”
Yes- this is correct. The actual data shows that small business owners have much more wealth by far than doctors, lawyers and other professionals.
Just because you have a million dollar house with a million dollar mortgage doesn’t make you wealthy.
“You are welcome for my very useful link. Ingrate.”
Sigh.
Once again NOTHING ABOUT HOUSING.
Because you don’t know anything Chuk. Clueless as usual. But yeah- you were predicting that HOUSING DOWNTURN this year.
Lol.
Sweetie, there’s not going to be any downturn. We’re hitting new highs month over month. It’s so hot that people are doing cash out refis again in numbers not seen in 10 years. The stock market is also at new highs (in case you weren’t paying attention) and when the stock market soars, so does real estate. They go hand in hand.
So I expect it to get even hotter as the summer goes on.
“Because you don’t know anything Chuk. Clueless as usual.”
I called the bottom to the exact month. You were busy being a chicken little saying the sky was falling. I bought real estate while you were telling everyone to rent. You are CLUELESS. You have NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Everything I said has come true and was documented in real time. Everything you have said has been 100% wrong.
“But yeah- you were predicting that HOUSING DOWNTURN this year. ”
I told you the coming recession will bring lower prices. Once again, you will look like a moron when you are proven wrong (yet again).
Shouldn’t you be tucking all your ca-, I mean children in bed?
“Here’s what investable assets means according to Phoenix marketing:”
So your intertubez machine got fixed? What was wrong with it?
“This Map Shows the Average Income of the Top 1% by Location”
That’s interesting, but largely useless, as the populations of most of those top counties allow one or two households to really skew the average. McKenzie County’s top 1% might be as few as 2 dozen households, so that could be one person with $100m, and 23 with an average of $500k. NY, NY and Westchester each have more households in its top 1% than McKenzie or Teton or Union have in total households.
Wish it were a threshold amount, instead.
Rich people don’t have or give a fuck about “income” they dodge taxes and make their money through long term capital gains, the whole “the 1% owns everything” meme is fucking retarded
you could have a billion dollars in a taxable brokerage account and have 0 taxable income every year, INCOME MEANS NOTHING!
You think two doctors that make a combined 500k are leveraging up like crazy to buy a 2 million dollar house? Sure maybe… but more likely the small business owner or old money is the one buying 2 million dollar+ places as they have real wealth and no debt/taxes to pay
fuck! The ignorance is astounding on the internets
“the whole “the 1% owns everything” meme is fucking retarded”
Well, for those who are dopey enough to think that it is the 1% by taxable income who own everything, sure.
The top 1% by *assets* do control an astounding amount of the wealth of America. The threshold for 1% by assets is something north of $8m, net.
Funny thing about expanding it to ‘global 1%’–that measure makes Bernie a 1%, too.
well all the socialist retards voting democrat are like TAX DUH 1% INCOMERS 80% DURRRR
“all the socialist retards”
Yes, bc they are retards.
Wealth tax it is!
Thank god the wealth tax is coming, because the alternative of pitchforks and torches is far worse. One of the first things the peasants did during the french revolution was burn the feudal and manorial records of the lords to destroy the source of their wealth.
“the whole “the 1% owns everything” meme is fucking retarded”
But they pretty much do, sonies, and wealth accumulation is not only unfair, but it’s horrible for the economy. http://equitablegrowth.org/research-analysis/oecd-report-says-income-inequality-hampers-economic-growth/
HD, there isn’t a poor person in America who isn’t part of the 1% globally.
The problem with these 1% memes is that there is no context. The brokest hood rat in Englewood lives like a king compared to say some Brazlian in a favela.
I’m sure when the pitchforks come out, they won’t be distinguishing between a small lawyer in Park Ridge and some trader at Citadel because as far as they are concerned, you are both in the 1%.
“there isn’t a poor person in America who isn’t part of the 1% globally”
That’s simply not true, Russ.
There are about 7 billion people, 1% of that number is 70,000,000. So, even if ALL of the global 1% were American (not true, at all), then there would be 250 million Americans *not* in the global 1%.
I know your math skills are better than that!
That said, it is true that the worst off American is generally far better off than they would be in most of the rest of the world.
Anon, you only need to make about $32,000 / yr to be the global 1%. Wealth wise you need to have a net worth of about $750k.
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/050615/are-you-top-one-percent-world.asp
My point was just that two minimum wage workers in America are in fact part of the 1%. Sure, they are poor in America but not compared to the rest of the world. Even being at the bottom in America, their standard of living far exceeds that of many globally. Of course, this is why people are willing to cross deserts and float on innertubes across shark infested waters to get here.
A typical teacher or fireman with a pension would most certainly be considered a 1%er. what is the NPV of their cushy pensions?
I always get a chuckle when people talk about the 1% not realizing they are talking about themselves.
“you only need to make about $32,000 / yr to be the global 1%”
So, over half of the US is in the top 70,000,000 people in the world?
Or if you limit it to individuals over the age of 18:
US (2010) = 234,564,071
World (2016, est)= 5,110,630,313
So, the top 1% of adults globally is 51,110,630 people. *EVEN IF* the top 51 million individuals ranked by income all lived in the USA, the cut line would be just outside the top quintile of US adults. The 80th percentile for individual (*not* household) income in the US is about $60,000.
So that $32,000 number (which I too have seen elsewhere) is more socialist claptrap, not well founded in facts, and should be ignored. Unless you’re a total bleeding heart.
“I told you the coming recession will bring lower prices. Once again, you will look like a moron when you are proven wrong (yet again).”
What coming recession? The one we might get next year? Or the year after? Or the year after that?
Let me give you a clue: a recession is ALWAYS coming. By definition. If you’re not IN one, it HAS to be coming.
So sure. We’ll get one again. We HAVE to.
But not right now. The economy is heating up. Hate to break it to you Chuk. It’s getting BETTER.
Lol.
Oh- and bringing out the “a woman with cats” thing? Wow. So lame sweetie. Are you going to call me a lesbian next? That’s where this is leading, right? As if any of that matters. But men have to bring up: boxed wines, cats, pantsuits and sexuality when they feel threatened.
I don’t have to tuck in my kids. Thank god. They’ve flown the coop. No more endless weekend soccer and baseball games for me. Thank goodness none of them wanted to play hockey or do figure skating. I would have said no.
“my kids … flown the coop”
Oh, so it’s menopause. [kidding!]
You left that one off your list!
But seriously, does anyone under the age of 50, with an above average education, actually bring up *pantsuits* anymore? WTFFFFFF???
Closed for 520K today