Will This Be the Third Sale in 3 Years for this New Construction Condo? 3512 N. Southport in Southport
We recently chattered about this 2008 newer construction midrise building at 3512 N. Southport in the Southport neighborhood of Lakeview because the penthouse unit came on the market.
But back in September 2009, we chattered about a second floor unit in the building.
See our prior chatter here.
This 3-bedroom unit first sold in 2008 and was listed for sale again just a year later.
It went under contract rather quickly in 2009 and sold just 2 months later for $53,000 less than the 2008 sale.
Now, just over a year later, it has come back on the market again.
This time, the list is $29,900 more than the 2009 purchase price.
The kitchen has white cabinets, stone counter tops and backsplash and Viking stainless steel appliances.
At 1900 square feet, the unit also has stone baths and 2-car covered parking.
Will this sell as quickly as it did in 2009?
Michael Drommerhausen at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #2S: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1900 square feet, 2 car tandem parking
- Sold in July 2008 for $673,000
- Originally listed in July 2009 for $650,000
- Reduced
- Was listed in September 2009 for $625,000
- Sold in November 2009 for $620,000
- Currently listed for $649,900
- Assessments of $223 a month
- Taxes of $9888
- Bedroom #1: 16×16
- Bedroom #2: 14×11
- Bedroom #3: 14×11
- Living room: 19×14
- Dining room: 19×8
- Kitchen: 14×10
- Laundry: 6×5
Really?
Really?
Wha….?
The price on this place seems crazy. I live close to here in a far bigger place that was a lot less. (We’re appealing our taxes and these folks should too.)
“Will this sell as quickly as it did in 2009?”
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say no.
Uhhhh..what?
I wonder whats been going on with all the movement here, anyone have any ideas?
Isnt this the building with the cool penthouse??? Maybe a putting green on top??? Why is everyone moving??
Who wants to live in a condo on southport with children when you can get a house in Northbrook or Glenview with a yard, a decent school and more space for the same price?
“#cominghome38 on February 4th, 2011 at 2:35 pm
Isnt this the building with the cool penthouse??? Maybe a putting green on top??? Why is everyone moving??”
this site used to be about helpful real estate discussions. stop fighting, it’s ridiculous. would you start an argument and speak to each other with such hate and anger if you were face-to-face. you sound like a bunch of playground bullies and junior high mean girls.
Good call wincomp, but that’s probably a better post for tr Lincoln park townhouse thread
riz – agreed, but it would have been so far down in the comments, no one probably would have saw it. i stop reading when i see a fight. hopefully some people will read my early comment in this new thread and not start a new fight.
HD – “Who wants to live in a condo on southport with children when you can get a house in Northbrook or Glenview with a yard, a decent school and more space for the same price?”
I have an answer. The people who hate suburbs (myself being one of them). If you like suburbs then there’s no reason to live in the city. You’ll always get more for your money out there. I would defintately pay a premium to live in an actual urban environment. And frankly, if you like suburbs go move already. I’m personally sick of suburb-lovers complaining about everything associated with city life.
I wouldn’t pay north of $600k for this place though. If this fetches $500k I think they’re lucky.
Fight, fight!!!
“homedelete on February 4th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Who wants to live in a condo on southport with children when you can get a house in Northbrook or Glenview with a yard, a decent school and more space for the same price?”
yawn. this?!!? again?
There are a couple of businesses on the ground level. I’m curious: how does that affect assessments overall, and do associations ever write in provisions about the types of businesses that can and cannot operate out of those spaces? Presumably the business space owners have some say in the building operations, right? (This is not a criticism — I’m genuinely curious!)
I dunno, but one thing HD’s comment could have been getting at is the likelihood that the sellers here moved to the suburbs, hence the repeated quick sales.
I would guess that a large percentage of condo sellers around this area decamp to (certain) suburbs. Some cheeky wags might even suggest that the area around Southport has more in common with, say, Glenview than it does with, say, Uptown, South Shore, or Logan Square.
Hey, i’m not saying ‘I’ would move to northbrook or glenview; just that it is a reasonable alternative that literally tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people make when their children reach a certain age. Don’t take out your anger on me, I’m just chillin’. You know.
Have they renovated the unit? If not how can they expect a price increase from 2009?!
Thank you Roma,
I will admit that my comment should have been worded more artfully; that maybe the large turnover in the building is due to the owners desire to move to the suburbs as opposed to anything wrong with the building itself.
I wasn’t trying to start a fight or flame war, just trying to offer an answer to the posited question. I will try to better articulate my responses in the future.
I am torn on where to move…there are days i love being in the city, and there are some I wish i didnt have to deal with all the hassle–my wife and I are having a hard time deciding suburbs or city
“homedelete on February 4th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Who wants to live in a condo on southport with children when you can get a house in Northbrook or Glenview with a yard, a decent school and more space for the same price?”
“my wife and I are having a hard time deciding suburbs or city”
Are you both conflicted or is she the one dragging you to the burbs? Cuz I’ve met more than one childless divorcee out and about so happy to be back in the city cuz the wifey had a nesting/suburban instinct and the dude was never really down for it.
actually it would be the opposite for us…she loves the city–i am indifferent, but would like to not have to drive an hour outside the city to play a decent golf course
“There are a couple of businesses on the ground level. I’m curious: how does that affect assessments overall, and do associations ever write in provisions about the types of businesses that can and cannot operate out of those spaces? Presumably the business space owners have some say in the building operations, right? (This is not a criticism — I’m genuinely curious!)”
swhc, In this case, the commercial space is not a part of the condo association. It technically resides on a limited air rights parcel (as does the condo portion.) This type of ownership became popular in the bubble since new construction on B & C zoning could not occupy the ground floor with residential space. At first, the demand was not as great for the first floor commercial space (think Division St in WP during the 90’s) and developers were getting stuck with the comm’l units and then having to deal with the condo association. Developers don’t like to deal with any stinkin’ association and their stinkin’ rules, so they figured out this alternative. This worked well when comm’l demand picked up, too, since the comm’l space buyers would not be concerned with restrictions from the upstairs riff raff.
I imagine that this type of situation is what has led lenders to not be too keen on lending in bldgs with more than 25% comm’l space.
“I am torn on where to move…there are days i love being in the city, and there are some I wish i didnt have to deal with all the hassle–my wife and I are having a hard time deciding suburbs or city”
What do you all like about the city? If you want to go to theaters, opera, restaurants once a week or even less than that but don’t care about the city vibe, and don’t dislike the suburban life, and care a lot more about a 3 car garage and a big basement to store tones of stuff, suburbs might be a good option for you.
I personally cannot tolerate the suburbs with their huge streets, no pedestrians and all those sad (IMHO) malls. I don’t value very large spaces as I like to buy few things that last for a long time. I find it strange that driving one a week to a golf course seems to be your deterrent for city living.
once a week? thats the problem…i want to play 5 days during the summer, not just one
That’s why a quasi-suburban lifestyle on the NW side is best. Access to metra/el/highways; drive to old orchard for malls; take the train to work/bars/nightlife (not too much nightlife these days); more affordable SFH on smaller lots; know your neighborhoods, no cookie cutter tract homes; actual sidewalks and homes, but still living in the city. I drive to most of my shopping either in the city or the suburbs and i take the public trans often to get other places in the city. cab rides sort of suck it’s 20$ per ride but that $20 bucks is way way way cheaper than a DUI for me. and it’s so rare that $20 is well worth it.
“#miumiu on February 4th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
“I am torn on where to move…there are days i love being in the city, and there are some I wish i didnt have to deal with all the hassle–my wife and I are having a hard time deciding suburbs or city”
What do you all like about the city? If you want to go to theaters, opera, restaurants once a week or even less than that but don’t care about the city vibe, and don’t dislike the suburban life, and care a lot more about a 3 car garage and a big basement to store tones of stuff, suburbs might be a good option for you.
I personally cannot tolerate the suburbs with their huge streets, no pedestrians and all those sad (IMHO) malls. I don’t value very large spaces as I like to buy few things that last for a long time. I find it strange that driving one a week to a golf course seems to be your deterrent for city living.”
oh I see. You are like my husband with his sailing. My bad : )
I love and want to live in the city but am feeling like the only way i’ll be able to get most of my wish list at a price i can afford
homedelete–
we have looked at a couple homes up in OIP, there was a greenish house on a corner lot just north of waveland on keeler or kildare i want to say—listed around 800 then pulled, not sure if it sold
we like that area for a lot of the reason you mention–we do most shopping at old orchard or oakbrook, like to go out to dinners–hit up the bars every now and again, we HATE the tract home style of the suburbs, probably our biggest complaint..big empty boxes with no character
“anon (tfo) on February 4th, 2011 at 2:05 pm
Really?
Really?”
When drunk I frequently hit on the tallest, hottest, blondest gal in the bar. Doesn’t mean I’m ever successful but its fun and free to try.
If you care about golf why don’t you move to someplace warm like florida where your taxes are low and golf courses are plentiful that you can play year round
but then again you have that whole redneck/transplanted east-coaster problem there
and bob, that’s a good strategy, tall women are really desperate
(i’m a tall guy and have to fight them off with sticks!)
If you want the mix, it is called Evanston.
affordability of SFH in nice parts of evanston =/ nw side hoods
i agree once again HD.quasi-suburban indeed.not all the crazy congestion of the city,and not totally boring like the suburbs.plus the parking is pretty good over here.(usually,but not today)just ask groove.
evanston ain’t bad either….but OOOWWWWW those taxes.
*****************************************
“That’s why a quasi-suburban lifestyle on the NW side is best. Access to metra/el/highways; drive to old orchard for malls; take the train to work/bars/nightlife (not too much nightlife these days); more affordable SFH on smaller lots; know your neighborhoods, no cookie cutter tract homes; actual sidewalks and homes, but still living in the city”
Thanks for the explanation, G. Reading between the lines, then, is having ground-floor commerce sounds like it could be neutral-to-frustrating for the condo owners?
prediction… Steve will end up in the suburbs. If you can think of anything, anything, that you would like about living in the burbs, then off you will eventually go.
The suburbs are a self fulfilling prophecy really…. you go because you were always meant to be there. Just once I’d like to hear a story of the 2 kid family that leaves their Glenview faux colonial with cathedral ceilings and moves into a two bedroom in Lakeview. Thinning of the urban herd really, and I’m kinda glad they exist; I’ve never, for example, had to bitch-slap anyone at a neighborhood meeting for suggesting that Halloween in LP move from the 31st to a convenient last Saturday of the month, as to give the kids a day of rest after trick or treating.
Those kinds of people find eventually find each other, and it’s usually in some type of processed development designed by Hallmark with a faux English name. Their endless traffic helps keeps them home too… why sit on the Kennedy in order to eat downtown, when there are endless bread sticks at the wide booth’d OG back home? I don’t have to sit next to them and look at their Rachel haircuts while I put food in my mouth, and it saves some poor waiter from trying to have to live on a 7% tip. Yep, the suburbs serve a purpose: it’s where the heard eventually goes.
Serious question…. how does it work in a building with a mix of residential and commercial? Does the commercial space get a “vote” in the association? Do they pay a similar assessment based on square footage? Do they share the same liability if something goes wrong?
Do the homeowners get a say in what type of business goes in? (i.e. can they veto an adult bookstore?)
haha yes jay the suburbs certainly are not for the unique person that wishes to speak their own mind… basically its for sheep that love the corny, car dependant, corporate consumerist, religious lifestyle
I see that shortwithhighceilings asked the same question earlier. Sorry for the repeat.
“basically its for sheep that love the corny, car dependant, corporate consumerist, …”
…so, in other words, we will be expecting you in a few years….
something funny about a lincoln parker claiming superiority over suburbanites. no heard mentality in lp, at all. not on those mean city streets.
“Have they renovated the unit? If not how can they expect a price increase from 2009?!”
They are trying to recoup at least most of the 6% they will pay in used house salesperson commissions and walk away near break even.
Not likely.
“…so, in other words, we will be expecting you in a few years….”
nope, never ever moving to the burbs, my wife has said the same… and I am pretty much the opposite of a consumerist not sure where you got that crap from (mr. Apple d-bag!)
Jay I’m hoping to be that family you mention this summer. Two kid family currently in a 2 bed TH in Lake Bluff, most likely can only afford a 2 bed condo in Lakeview. Hence why I spend so much time on Cribchatter trying to get an edumacation on the city market.
Well, I don’t like suburb living at all, but I never thought about the school costs (My husband and I come from countries that public school system is great regardless of where you live). I understand that some people have to sacrifice their life style to put their kids through good schooling. Also women (and men) get very little help with parental leave in this country so often women end up quitting their job to take care of kids and it is hard to live in the city on one salary alone. That being said some women are lazy too and just look at having kids at opportunity to get fat, stop working and leaching on their husbands.
“nope, never ever moving to the burbs, my wife has said the same… and I am pretty much the opposite of a consumerist not sure where you got that crap from”
Yeah – whatever. All of my friends said the same thing when they were in their late twenties/early thirties. Just wait until you have two kids – I bet you will start to think differently.
Sabrina – on this same topic- you always ask why people buy 2/2 – this is the perfect example. Most couples don’t realize that things change DRASTICALLY AND DRAMATICALLY when you have kids. While they think they can stay in the city, etc. – they soon realize that convenience/comfort is MUCH MUCH more important to them. This mentality will never change. It has happened for generations and will continue to do so. There will always be “sonies” around to buy in the city until they have kids.
If you think outside of the green zone, is living in the city really that different from the suburbs? You won’t be able to walk to EL or Metra, you will need a car in order to shop, the lakefront is not going to be in your backyard and your streets largely will be quiet.
Yes, the green zone is a special experience for those mass affluent consumers. For the working class, the suburbs can be a blessing.
For once I would love to hear multiple opinions of working class, south side, blue collar workers, rather than those of us which are fortunate enough to argue between Naperville and Lincoln Park.
some places outside the gz are the most different. pilsen for example
Dan, I looked very seriously at OIP, Jeff Pk and some Portage pk. I found that those areas had houses close to transit and were a good fit, not the cuteness you have in LP but a definite city vibe. Yes, that style of living can be replicated in some of the train community suburbs but I found that houses in walking dist to the trains in those towns were out of the budget for us. I see the NW side non-GZ as the place for us.
i see jay made some sweeping generalizations about me and my situation–he listed reasons why i hate the suburbs, not why i would embrace them
@ ch
‘something funny about a lincoln parker claiming superiority over suburbanites. no heard mentality in lp, at all. not on those mean city streets.’
I’m not a LP’r claiming superiority over suburbanites, I’m an urbanite claiming superiority over suburbanites. And who said all urban streets were/had to be mean to urban? Who said we all had to be Studs Lonigan to be valid? That’s just another electric fence argument you people use to validate your vanilla life. But the city is good enough for ‘you’ to make a living downtown; use all the good, leave the challenge at 5.
This whole blog *is* about the green zone, or neighborhoods Chicagoans think may be the next green zone. There is no art, architecture, culinary experiences, cultural diversity, nor anything of intrinsic value that rises from the suburbs. The Impressionism collection at Woodfield? Carl Sandburg’s ‘Naperville… city of big shoulders’? Infusion at Chilis? ‘Have you been to boystown in Wheaton…? those queens are fierce!’ Yes, a few Chicago based architects have designed houses here or there in what use to be the country, and I give you Oak Park and Evanston are lovely, you do have ample SUV parking if I had one, but… you have zero superiority claims to make.
“This whole blog *is* about the green zone, or neighborhoods Chicagoans think may be the next green zone. ”
Actually Jay, if you click on the About Crib Chatter link at the top:
“This website is devoted to providing the best news about the Chicago area real estate and housing market…”
Sabrina doesn’t limit it to green zone or soon-to-be green zone. Some of the posters here might limit it though.
@ Jennifer
Please blog about it… please. Others need to know the thrill of stopping at Crisp for chicken while on your way to the Pritzker one summer night; make sure you have an air tight container, or it will never make it off the bus. Walking to Wrigley. Pride parade. I have family on the North Shore, and my niece drives a Hummer to high school. Not good, not good at all.
clio, as usual you are the opposite of correct when generalizing about someone you know nothing about. Stick to acting like a stuck up attention whore, you’re much better at it!
Okay jay… I’ll bite. There’s plenty of art, culture, and architecture in the burbs — you just got to open your eyes.
The obvious place to start is Ravinia Festival in Highland Park, where you can see all genres of music year round (there’s also an indoor theater), especially the CSO in their summer residence. Then there is the Lake Forest symphony, who perform at the College of Lake County in Grayslake, and the Ars Viva Orchestra, who perform at the North Shore Center for the Performing Arts in Skokie — both under Maestro Alan Heatherington. In fact, if you go to the Illinois Council of Orchestra’s website, you can find well over 50 performing groups in pretty much every corner of the burbs.
Okay… let’s throw in some great theater architecture. The obvious top two are the Rialto Theater in Joliet and the Genesee Theater in Waukegan. Go check out some photos online. Then there are smaller places like the Woodstock Opera House.
This blog is about real estate, so let’s discuss home architecture. A few months ago, Sabrina made a very rare suburban post featuring a Bertrand Goldberg modern ranch out in Flossmoor, which I think was listed for something like $580k. That place was unreal! Pretty much any architect who worked in Chicago has performed commissions in the suburbs. For a great place that you can visit as a tourist, check out the Mies Van Der Rohe Farnsworth House out in Plano (that’s about as exurban as you can get).
I’ll let someone else carry the baton for suburban cuisine.
And CASINOS…don’t forget, suburbs have casinos and the city doesn’t (yet)!
Honestly danny, your post is so sad. Basically your claim of culture in burbs is pointing out to 3 venues over 3 different burbs?!
Really?
“If you go to the Illinois Council of Orchestra’s website, you can find well over 50 performing groups in pretty much every corner of the burbs.”
It is funny to me how urban “sophisticates” are quick to diss suburbanites but I rarely hear the reverse. I’m certain folks like jay and miumiu would be the first to claim to be more open-minded, too. It just doesn’t appear to be true.
This whole suburbs vs. city argument is silly. There are good and bad things about the suburbs and good and bad things about the city. You just have to analyze your life, lifestyle, budget, desires, goals, etc. and decide what is better for you. You are not going to be able to have it all (well… unless you live in the suburbs and have an in-town).
I agree Clio each obviously has its advantages, but it is ridiculous to claim the burbs are cultural centers as it would be ridiculous to claim one gets more space for the money in the city.
“Just wait until you have two kids – I bet you will start to think differently.”
I’m actually agreeing with Clio on something!
Many people are priced out of the GZ neighborhoods of the city once they have two kids. They want more space but can’t afford the $600k or $700k AND the private school situation or whatever. So they just embark to the suburbs.
Also- and I don’t think this has been discussed- many grandparents live in the suburbs making it for easier babysitting etc.
Sabrina, I agree with the first part of your post, but as for “Also- and I don’t think this has been discussed- many grandparents live in the suburbs making it for easier babysitting etc.”, I heard from my realtor than many older couples move back to city once their kids leave home which makes sense to me.
Ok miumiu… I’ll take your challenge too.
Regarding art, you can start with the Bloch Museum of Art at Northwestern University in Evanston. For smaller burbs you have the Elmhurst Art Museum, the Kamp Gallery in Winnetka, The Illinois State Museum and Gallery in Lockport, and the Wright Gallery in Grayslake.
In terms of arts and music education, people move specifically to the suburbs so their kid can study at the Music Institute of Chicago (locations in Evanston, Winnetka, Highland Park, Lake Forest, Lincolnshire, Northbrook, and Downers Grove). There is the Piven Theater Workshop in Evanston.
With regard to restrictions on commercial spaces in condo buildings, the main no-no is not “adult entertainment” but any food-related business. Too much danger of critters making their way from the grocery store to the living spaces, doncha know.
“Too much danger of critters making their way from the grocery store to the living spaces, doncha know.”
I was always suspicious of the loft conversions at the former South Water Market site (between University Village and Pilsen). I imagine that there would be generations of super-healthy varmint, that have fed on the produce from all corners of the globe. Do they rats and roaches really just disappear after the loft conversion?
I was not challenging you danny. But on the positive side, I learnt more about the burbs. I was just pointing out that in term of cultural offering there is no comparison between the city and the burbs. I still don’t see how you can disagree with this. For heavens sake so many performances and exhibitions are always going on in Chicago. Also how can you even compare these museums with the ones in the city.
Ha! No one mentions that there are jobs in the suburbs, lots of them. For example, my good friend works for a multi-national insurance company in the suburbs and he says that probably 1/2 his office, primarily the younger underwriters, all live in city and reverse commute every day. The reverse commute is worse during rush hour on any highway except the Dan Ryan. Have you tried driving from Rosemont to downtown at 6:00 at night? It’s a nightmare. It’s funny how everyone talks about the urban lifestyle yet many of us work in the suburbs.
Do you honestly believe that the attendees of the cultural performances in the City mostly reside in Chicago?
Have you ever driven past Union or Olgivie Station on a weekend?
The argument that the city has better culture is a non-argument given how easy it is for suburbanites to drive & park in the city or simply take the metra (or in some cases, the el). now if you want to compare Rockford or Peoria to Chicago, sure. But the Glenview vs. City argument isn’t really valid.
“#miumiu on February 5th, 2011 at 10:25 am
I was not challenging you danny. But on the positive side, I learnt more about the burbs. I was just pointing out that in term of cultural offering there is no comparison between the city and the burbs. I still don’t see how you can disagree with this. For heavens sake so many performances and exhibitions are always going on in Chicago. Also how can you even compare these museums with the ones in the city.”
“It’s funny how everyone talks about the urban lifestyle yet many of us work in the suburbs.”
I agree HD. I don’t understand how they can do that commute every day. It’s a killer! Just move to the burbs already. The commute sucks everything out of you anyway.
“I heard from my realtor than many older couples move back to city once their kids leave home which makes sense to me.”
I’m sure some do. But most can’t sell their homes in the burbs now. And house prices in the burbs are WAY down. So it makes sense for junior to move back there- with the grandparents nearby- for the cheaper price.
Honestly, you can get a great house in many closer in suburbs for like $250,000 now. Nothing in the GZ neighborhoods even comes close. With great schools. For middle class families (or even upper middle class families)- it can be the difference of affording college for your kids or not.
Many people look for different things. But when money IS an issue- the burbs are winning out more often than not just because the prices are really falling there (quicker than the GZ.)
Now if you want to live in Galewood, Portage Park or those other neighborhoods- you also have some amazing opportunities (historic bungalows for like $125k.)
“Do you honestly believe that the attendees of the cultural performances in the City mostly reside in Chicago?”
I am not sure as I don’t have data on this. However, we are season ticket holders for Lyric and all the people I have gotten to know live in Chicago. But this is a very small sample so I don’t want to generalize from that.
A better question to ask is what percentage of “frequent” attendants reside in Chicago. As many people may attend performances once or twice a year who don’t even live in the greater Chicago area (including the burbs). We used to do that for years before having our in town. But, it is much less likely to do the commute every week.
Also there has been days that we just decide in the afternoon that we are in the mood to watch a show and just hop on a cab last minute and make it.
I find this very valuable as I am somewhat moody and don’t like planning too much in advance.
“Many people look for different things. But when money IS an issue- the burbs are winning out more often than not just because the prices are really falling there (quicker than the GZ.)”
I totally agree with this and mentioned that the affordability in my earlier post. My only argument was that city life is very different from the suburban one. I never disagreed with the valid arguments in favor of the burbs. As HD mentioned obviously if you have to commute an hour every day, there is not much sense living in the city. However, I love urban life so even if my job was in the burbs, I would rather have a small place there that I stay during the week and then live 3-4 nights in the city or at least have an in town.
My argument is assuming one can get jobs in the city (albeit well paying ones), I rather raise one or two kids in the city in a 2 or 3 bedroom and enjoy what city has to offer. I would love my kids to take the bus, subway, or walk rather than me having to drive them around. Also I don’t mind living in a smaller space. Majority of the world doesn’t raise their kids in huge houses and the kids turn out ok. I am actually expecting now and a friend of mine was suggesting we should buy an SUV as it is too hard to get a baby in and out of the car otherwise! In Asia, Europe, South America, and even Africa people raise kids too and they don’t have SUVs or vans.
I don’t know why you are all debating city vs suburbs….. it’s apples and oranges.
I thought this site was about urban real estate so who really cares? I am sure the suburban lovers can find a suburban real estate blog that discusses weber grills and lawn fertilizer and has heated debates on which is better Golden Corral or Old Country Buffet……..
Have a good weekend city dwellers!!!!!!!@
Valasko – those debates go on in Chicago as well. Don’t kid yerself.
miumiu – Congratulations!
valasko: I’ve never been to Golden Corral and OCB got me ill once as a teen. However I do loves me some Bob Evans breakfasts.
sorry valasko – Ryan’s Family Steakhouse wins the battle every time:
http://home.tiac.net/~cri/1998/ryans.html
Thanks Wicker. Very kind of you.
oh god what have a started………
“I’m not a LP’r claiming superiority over suburbanites, I’m an urbanite claiming superiority over suburbanites. ”
so much funny. if you’re not a lpr what are you doing at neighborhood meetings discussing their trick or treat times. It always struck me as funny that the people who railed against the suburbs the hardest were from the hoods most similar to suburbs (lp/gz, and to a lesser extent sauganash). Then after bashing the burbs they’re on the phone with their alderman to try and get the basketball hoops removed from the neighborhood park bc it attracts people from outside their comfort zone. Call yourself urban if it makes you happy, but you aren’t superior, or really any different. there are plenty of snobs all over using their addresses for validation.
I’d love to see a cribchatter — suburban edition. It could focus on really cool houses like that Flossmoor Goldberg. Time to franchise.
No no, lincoln park IS superior to all other places in a 1000 mile radius. And anyone who lives there, whether it be a college student, a big ten grad, a senior citizen or a bum, they ARE superior to everyone else. The north shore is for the masses, but lincoln park is for the elite. He’s right, I feel inferior already. It doesn’t matter than the LP lifestyle has zero appeal to me given my family, job, income or household needs, i am inferior because my needs are different than those who live in the LP.
@ danny
I think you have to define what is suburban (ie – ‘burbs’, the derogatory meaning that irks so many here) . I don’t consider the old towns outside Chicago, mainly along old rail lines, to be suburban, and I’m sure the older residents of those beautiful Olmsted designed streets in Riverside feel the same way. They had their own identity, architecture (like the Rialto in Joliet, Mies in Plano), economy, and culture. That’s small town America, immortalized in our culture countless ways… even Main Street at Disney Land. Those towns aren’t the reasons sociologists have been scratching their heads for the last 60 years wondering WTF, it’s the cancerous filler that has grouped them all into one, taking a towns identity with it. The ‘burbs’ have claimed these perfectly fine small towns as their own, the same way everyone in a zip code of 60614 claims to be in LP (ouch).
I have an older friend who has lived on the north shore, same family estate… yes estate, since being born on it in the 30’s. It’s never the ‘suburbs’, it’s come see me in the ‘country’ when I’m asked to visit, as it was indeed the country when the place was built. Every small farming town of Kane County fought against the planned ‘beltway’ that would connect DeKalb to Joliet, knowing it would bring hideous sprawl to otherwise beautiful open land. What’s pathetic is that corporate America, our government, and the heard mentality of more is better (suburbanites), have basically wiped out small town America, and replaced it with a 300 car parking lot Applebees; why spend money at a mom & pop dining establishment when I can gorge myself for less money on prepared food packaged in Texas? So sad, and even sadder that people still buy into it and actually *support* it. That’s the ‘burbs’ I refer to.
“I don’t consider the old towns outside Chicago, mainly along old rail lines, to be suburban,”
then why bash glenview in your original herd rant?
Oh please CH, turn off TCM’s Capra film fest and and take a nice walk… ‘damn that Mr. Potter!’
That’s my point, nobody at a neighborhood meeting brings up moving the 31st for the sake of the *children*, we have more important issues like what’s happening with the old Grant Hospital; can you not read/speak snark? Nobody has ever advocated with any validity about taking down the nets at the playground…. please! That’s the problem, it’s not the actual residents of LP that are snobs, it’s the ones looking in who think we are and perpetuate the myth. Kinda like the tall blonde bob likes to hit on… who says she’s anything other than a nice person? That script has been pitched to death… find a new one.
took them down at clover park on southport and webster. there are plenty of snobs in lp. and heard mentality. even is a website spoofing the trixies and chads .. though you know that and are probably just being snarky.
btw. I make fun of olive garden too, but both times I’ve been dragged there I was pleasantly surprised.
Southport and Webster? Hmmmmm, like I said, nobody in LP has ever advocated taking down the hoops.
“Honestly, you can get a great house in many closer in suburbs for like $250,000 now. Nothing in the GZ neighborhoods even comes close. With great schools. For middle class families (or even upper middle class families)- it can be the difference of affording college for your kids or not.”
Chicago is structured so that different areas provide different features for people depending on their ethnicity and what lifecycle stage they’re in. To try to go against the grain on this requires either a lot of money or a large amount of sacrifice.
There’s a reason drink specials are plentiful in and around LP: the real estate might be outrageous but the area by and large appeals to college students and 20 somethings who don’t have a lot of disposable income.
This site is funny in that there are a lot of people who want their cake and to eat it, too.
“it can be the difference of affording college for your kids or not.””
not a single middle class family will be able to afford the cost of college unless they are upper middle class misers living way below their means and have zero fun (or retirement plans)
education costs are out of control
‘To try to go against the grain on this requires either a lot of money or a large amount of sacrifice.’
Amen brother! People here find it hard to believe, but LP/Sheffield (especially Shieffield) 30 years ago required a *lot* of sacrifice to live here: lack of city services/give-a-damn (they were reserved for the collar/union neighborhoods) , crime (not violent, but persistent theft), zero chance of even a *thought* that you would recoup a nickel on every dime you spent… all at an 11.5% interest rate. But, it was something you just *had* to do, I mean who in their right mind would let these beautiful old modestly sized victorian houses fall into ruins? That was the attitude, it wasn’t snobbery (okay, maybe a few early yuppies… that term was coined here by Bob Greene fyi). If along the way some of us did well, paid our neighborhood dues, but attracted those Range Rover driving monsters with pony tails hanging out the back of their baseball caps… then so what. Those kinds of people come and go (to the suburbs when the credit dries up). Don’t confuse snobbery with city/neighborhood pride… it was by going against the grain and against all odds, that created a great address… outsiders/transients gave us the snob status we never asked for.
Hah! Love the Ryan’s Steakhouse “review”.
yeah the ryans steakhouse bit reminds me of some of the stories from poopreport dot com
“not a single middle class family will be able to afford the cost of college unless they are upper middle class misers living way below their means and have zero fun (or retirement plans)”
That’s not true Sonies. Buy the $100k-$150k house and you could save enough to afford it. It’s about keeping your housing costs down and saving when the kids are very, very young.
“I’d love to see a cribchatter — suburban edition. It could focus on really cool houses like that Flossmoor Goldberg. Time to franchise.”
The “suburbs” are just too massive for anyone to cover easily (and I’m only including the closer in ones along the metra etc.) Think about it. You’d have most of the North Shore, Park Ridge, Oak Park, Riverside (as someone mentioned it above), River Forest and then the south surburbs like Flossmoor and Olympia Fields (REAL architectural gems to be had for cheap down there.)
It’s just too much. Heck- someone could just do a blog on Park Ridge real estate alone. There are hundreds of properties for sale there right now.
Hundreds of properties and nearly all of them overpriced for what they are!
“It’s just too much. Heck- someone could just do a blog on Park Ridge real estate alone. There are hundreds of properties for sale there right now.”
“That’s not true Sonies. Buy the $100k-$150k house and you could save enough to afford it. It’s about keeping your housing costs down and saving when the kids are very, very young.”
buy a 100k house and send my kids to a high school with a 50% drop out rate? no thanks…
As long as our professional sports teams still play IN the City of Chicago’s borders (with the exception of the Fire), the city will be seen by many as “superior” to the suburbs.
Orchestras and operas are great for grownups, but kids of grade-school age can still avail themselves of a trip on the L to see the Cubs or Sox on a summer afternoon – try that in the suburbs!
I live at the Irving Park Metra stop and it is JAM PACKED with suburbanites wearing Cubs gear regularly during summer afternoons. Same goes for the northbound Addison Blue line stop.
“#ChiTownGal on February 5th, 2011 at 7:11 pm
As long as our professional sports teams still play IN the City of Chicago’s borders (with the exception of the Fire), the city will be seen by many as “superior” to the suburbs.
Orchestras and operas are great for grownups, but kids of grade-school age can still avail themselves of a trip on the L to see the Cubs or Sox on a summer afternoon – try that in the suburbs!”
If you look at SFRs in the suburbs, it appears that there are more and more good deals (or at least what would have seemed to be good deals a few years back). At some point, it would seem that people who aren’t completely anti-burb would think long and hard about leaving the city, which would tend to depress prices here in Chicago. Is there any evidence that this is starting to be the case?
Not really, just anecdotal. For the most part, the only people buying right now are:
1) those that don’t already own a home; 2) those that can afford to sell their current home at a loss or 3) those with high enough incomes to qualify for a mortgage to buy another home without first selling their current home.
This is a relatively small number of people. I’m sure there are plenty of people who live in 2/2’s who would love to move to Naperville. Actually, a friend of a friend of mine bought home in Naperville and renting out the 2/2 in Chicago. They have a high enough income to support this arrangement for mortgage qualification purposes. I think the large home in naperville costs about as much as they paid for the 2/2 in 2003/2004.
“#AOB on February 5th, 2011 at 7:24 pm
If you look at SFRs in the suburbs, it appears that there are more and more good deals (or at least what would have seemed to be good deals a few years back). At some point, it would seem that people who aren’t completely anti-burb would think long and hard about leaving the city, which would tend to depress prices here in Chicago. Is there any evidence that this is starting to be the case?”
“buy a 100k house and send my kids to a high school with a 50% drop out rate? no thanks…”
You buy the cheap house so you CAN afford to send your kids to a school with no such thing.
Those buying their McCondos during the boom never thought about that when they plopped down 400k for their McCrapBox. They were STOOPID stupid, and never considered that overpaying for housing can have adverse impacts in other parts of their budget.
“Actually, a friend of a friend of mine bought home in Naperville and renting out the 2/2 in Chicago.”
Homebuying came up with my dental hygentist the other day (out in the burbs.) She just had a baby and her and her husband, who lived in Wicker Park, bought a foreclosure in Naperville. She said they debated all the pros and cons but were tired of getting mugged in Wicker Park and just thought the schools were better. They got a great deal on the Naperville house so they went for it.
“buy a 100k house and send my kids to a high school with a 50% drop out rate? no thanks…”
So you buy a $500k somewhere else in the city that ALSO has the 50% drop out rate?
LOL!
If you’re so concerned about the schools- there are tons of houses priced $50k to $200k in many suburbs with quite good high schools. The era of spending $400k or $500k on a house on a middle class income is over.
Just for purpose of accuracy. What is a middle class income range?
I don’t know the official designation. Everyone has different opinions on what it is.
I’ll take a guess though. Regular “middle class” is anywhere from $40k to $90k. Upper middle class from $90k to $250k.
I use that designation because regular bungalow houses in neighborhoods like Galewood, Monteclare, Portage Park and Avondale were selling from $400k to $500k at the end of the boom.
There’s no way incomes support those housing prices.
And now they’re selling, in foreclosure or short sale, for $50k to $200k.
I see. Thanks. I was just curious. I think one other factor which is neglected is the number of people in a household. A couple making 90K can for sure afford a 400K house if they don’t over spend, but it is much harder for a family of 4 to do so. So I always find the household income figure somewhat misleading.
Yes- if you have children it’s harder to stretch the budget to afford the higher property.
But your example of a couple making $90k affording a $400k property is a good illustration of what will happen when interest rates rise.
With 6% or 7% interest rates- no way someone making $90k “affords” the $400k house anymore.
It’s going to get very, very interesting when we see the big spike higher in rates.
Census Bureau Median Family Income By Family Size
http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20101101/bci_data/median_income_table.htm
STATE 1 EARNER 2 PEOPLE 3 PEOPLE 4 PEOPLE
IL $45,607 $59,104 $68,782 $79,788
* Add $7,500 for each individual in excess of 4.
So basically for a family of four the median income according to the IRS is roughly $80,000.
These figures are used for means testing for bankruptcy and aren’t always accurate. I seem families of 5 or 6 with incomes of $65,000 or $70,000 all the time. I don’t think larger families necessarily equal higher income (i think it’s the opposite actually); but as far as 1/2/3/4 household incomes, I find it reasonable that the median for a two working parent/two kid household to be around $80,000 in IL. Not Chicago, but IL.
“So you buy a $500k somewhere else in the city that ALSO has the 50% drop out rate?
LOL!
If you’re so concerned about the schools- there are tons of houses priced $50k to $200k in many suburbs with quite good high schools.”
There are no homes for 50-100k right now with a reasonable commute to the loop or in an area where I won’t get mugged or shot
you people say oh just wait, prices will be lower?
yeah? when?
Sorry but I won’t destroy my life with spending 3 hours in a car/train 5 days a week just to send my kids to a good school.
and don’t worry in 10 years when gas is $10 a gallon and we’re spending most of our money on food, spending a tax deductible 2k a month on a house won’t seem so bad
“There are no homes for 50-100k right now with a reasonable commute to the loop or in an area where I won’t get mugged or shot.”
Would you be shot or mugged in Berwyn? There are plenty of homes for sale there in that price range.
I looked for under $125k in several closer in suburbs.
There’s one in cute Highwood under $125k (granted- a little more of a commute) but I doubt you’re being shot or mugged up there.
There are 2 in Arlington Heights. There is just 1 in Oak Park. Nothing in Park Ridge (right now- but I’ve seen them selling to the flipper/renovators for as low as $90k there.)
None of those towns have 3 hour commutes and all are on train lines.
There are 6 homes listed for under $150k in Flossmoor, also on the train lines.
I just looked in Berwyn. 140 homes under $150k there. Most of them historic 1920s-1930s vintage bungalows.
Here’s a 1922 Queen Anne for $107,000. Located in the more popular south Berwyn where they have the historic bungalow tour every year. Just two blocks from the train (which is about 9 minutes to the loop.)
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Berwyn/3114-Wesley-Ave-60402/home/14135962
Heck, up your budget a bit and you can get this 1940s Georgian in Highland Park in short sale listed for $175,000. That’s under the 1999 sales price of $220k.
Excellent Highland Park high school school district and close to the train.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Highland-Park/1741-Beverly-Pl-60035/home/17626885
Plenty of options in the closer in suburbs. Yes, some will need work and some aren’t perfect. But, again, there ARE deals out there for those who bother to look.
The example above provides a strong incentive for families to move to suburb. It is an argument I buy not danny’s earlier claims about the cultural aspect.
Given the price range of properties in the central parts of the city, many people are priced out of them unless the prices come down quite a bit.
So the interesting question is whether in the long run the prices come down a lot or people with higher income levels who can truly afford those properties (as opposed to ones buying with 5% down with shady loans) will be the only folks who are able to live in the city. If the later is the case, I doubt it will have much effect on say Gold Coast, but it might make newer neighborhoods like SP take a big hit. That being said as the high-rises are aging in down town, could the reasonable assessments in SL make it more popular?
It seems the RE will be interesting to watch for a decade at least.
“Here’s a 1922 Queen Anne for $107,000. Located in the more popular south Berwyn where they have the historic bungalow tour every year. Just two blocks from the train (which is about 9 minutes to the loop.)”
Despite the listing remarks, that isn’t a Queen Anne.
I was just repeating what they called it in the listing. But you’re right. Looks more like some sort of bungalow type to me.
That place in Berwyn (the center of it all) needs a lot of work and the door to door commute is at lot more than 10 minutes! And the taxes are 6200 a year! ouch! I’m sure that is having an effect on this places’ valuation, not to mention the no kitchen is killing it because you can’t get a loan on a property with no kitchen!
That place in HP is frickin TINY and with taxes of 10k a year… bleech. I wouldn’t want to be the poorest family in HP thats for sure, and the commute is at least 45 minutes to the loop (and the house is at least 200k! and a short sale so that “listing price” is a joke
Please find me a halfway decent middle class home (1600sqft, 3 bedrooms, 1.5 to 2 baths) in any suburb that isn’t a dump or 45+ minutes from the loop for 50-100k… That you can get a standard 20% LTV loan on… they don’t exist! And won’t exist, mainly because section 8 rents are higher than the valuation of a 100k home!
Lincoln PArk-6
Rog Park/edwater-5
Riv North-4
Oak park-4
“That place in Berwyn (the center of it all) needs a lot of work and the door to door commute is at lot more than 10 minutes! And the taxes are 6200 a year! ouch! I’m sure that is having an effect on this places’ valuation, not to mention the no kitchen is killing it because you can’t get a loan on a property with no kitchen!”
Sonies- there are another 140 homes you can go and look at in Berwyn.
Honestly- you’ll find something wrong with every single home I show you.
Starter homes are NOT palaces. They usually need some work. And no, most won’t have stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops. That’s why they are starter homes.
But it’s up to every person to decide how much they want spend on housing versus other things in their lives such as retirement savings, college for their kids, vacations or maybe a vacation home etc. etc.
I’m just saying there are PLENTY of options for housing that are 50% or more cheaper than many parts of Chicago for similar commute times (as Berwyn is closer to the loop than Lincoln Square and certainly many Northwest side nabs like Edgebrook.)
There is now plenty of opportunity in many of the older inner suburbs- if only people would bother to check it out.
Tomorrow, not today, is the ‘big’ day! The ‘kickoff’ of the Spring Selling Season is almost here!
You’re right HD! I’m eagerly awaiting all the new listings. 🙂
I know me too HD and S. Actually I am surprised how few new listings have arrived in my area of interest. I thought comes spring, there will be tones.
So the question I have is; all those suburban school districts with tons of foreclosures and lowered property values; how are the school districts holding up? Is there any deterioration in them due to funding?
nd, in Illinois, lower prop values just mean that the tax rate will go up unless budgets are reduced.
Banks are still paying the taxes on the homes they own or have mortgage on. If the homedebtor is in default, the banks will still pay the taxes so as not to lose their priority lien position via tax sales and subsequent tax deeds.
“#nd on February 7th, 2011 at 11:34 am
So the question I have is; all those suburban school districts with tons of foreclosures and lowered property values; how are the school districts holding up? Is there any deterioration in them due to funding?”
Thanks HD – I’d still be interested to hear if there is any effect, which I guess will be longer term.
Like I said above, nd, only if budgets are reduced. The taxing formula works like this:
Budgets are approved, which comprise the levy.
Assessments are approved.
Levy is divided into total assessment for each taxing district to get the tax rate.
If assessments go down and budgets don’t, then the tax rate will rise.
“Levy is divided into total assessment for each taxing district to get the tax rate.”
Should be “divided by.”