Get Your 3-Bedroom Pre-War Lakeview Home for Under $300K: 3740 N. Lake Shore Drive
This 3-bedroom at 3740 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview has been on and off the market since October 2009.
Built in 1924, this “pre-war” unit actually has a lot of the amenities buyers look for today but can’t always find in vintage buildings.
It has in-unit washer/dryer and there is a garage in the building (not sure if it is rental or deeded.) However, it doesn’t have central air (only window units.)
At over 2000 square feet, it has an entry foyer, a separate dining room and office. The listing says the third bedroom has been made into a breakfast room but can be changed back into a bedroom but at just 7×10 it was likely the original maid’s room.
The unit has a “chef’s kitchen” with stainless steel appliances.
It has been reduced $176,000 to $299,000 since 2009.
Is this a deal for the square footage?
Brad Lippitz at Prudential Rubloff has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #3B: 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2000+ square feet
- Sold in April 2005 for $376,000 (per Redfin- as the ccrd website was down again)
- Originally listed in October 2009 for $475,000
- Reduced several times
- Currently listed at $299,000
- Assessments of $1161 a month (includes heat, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $6120
- No central air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Garage in the building- but not sure if parking is deeded, and extra, or rental
- Bedroom #1: 18×15
- Bedroom #2: 17×15
- Bedroom #3: 7×10
- Office: 8×8
It’s not a bad deal for the price, but it’s not a gift, either. I’ve walked through a couple of units in this building with the same configuration and it feels like much less space. The place doesn’t seem to “flow” and feels somehow claustrophobic.
Nice place, but no more a bargain than other vintage units at 3500 LSD or 3300 LSD, or other vintage high rises in the area that are languishing on the market and listed over and over for as long as 3 years. These places are very expensive to maintain and heat, as you can see from the HOA. I don’t believe there is garage space for every apartment, and there surely aren’t two spaces.
This is a two-bedrm apartment w/breakfast room masquerading as a legitimate 3-bedrm. A family of four expecting a bedroom for each child won’t consider this unit. For an individual or couple, there are better vintage 2/2 units to consider. Plain vanilla interior isn’t helping marketing of unit; repainting unit using current House & Garden color palette would certainly improve unit’s vintage ambience.
Agree with you on all points. I consider this building to be the least attractive and liveable of all the vintage buildings in this area. The maintenance is every bit as high as in comparable buildings with a lot more going for them in amenity and features. Staging with a stylish palette would help.
I believe this unit will eventually sell (VERY eventually) for less than $250K, if prices for comparables at 3300 N LSD, 3500 N LSD, 421 W Melrose, 3750 N LSD, and other comparable buildings are any indication.
Good to see you’re back Laura!
Laura the vintage lady,
I have a question, i have rented many vintage 2 and 3 flat walk ups with plaster walls/ceilings in my life and found that noise does travel a irk of renting i guess.
the question is on these beautiful vintage lakefront condos is the build/material used better for handling “neighbor noise”?
Groove, are you considering making a move back to the city?
Laura,
Thanks for the helpful observations. This does look like a decent deal, especially with the relatively low assessment compared to 3500 or 3750. Being on the 3rd floor is a drawback, though. If I’m on Lake Shore, I want a lake view.
“Groove, are you considering making a move back to the city?”
dooode i never left the city i still live in Chicago. just in case you forgot its still chicago past Western and still cook county past Cicero 😉
Parents are pondering a LSD 2 bedroom condo and selling their house.
Dan, remember that the assessments at 3500 and 3750 include the taxes. Add on the taxes here and you’re paying nearly as much, for a place I’d consider substantially inferior in appearance, architecture, and amenity to either 3750 or 3500.
I personally consider the coops at 3500 to be the best deal. Check them out again… there are at least 3 huge 2200 sq ft 3 bed 3 bath places and they’ve reduced their prices since last we talked about them. I’m seeing prices of $175K and $169K for these immense 3-3 units. The architecture is gorgeous and there are 3 real bedrooms and 3 huge baths. I love a big bath. Yeah, the HOA is high, but it includes the taxes.
3750 has much higher costs per square foot due to the amenities, and probably, to the extremely horizontal configuration of the bldg with its 11 elevator tiers. Bigger units are gorgeous but the cost of running them is truly outrageous. This has always been a very, very high maintenance building that qualifies prospective buyers rigorously.
Groove, these older buildings don’t really have the best soundproofing in the world, but in a good building, you usually have fairly quiet, considerate neighbors.
Strange thing I noticed about all the vintage highrises I lived in that were steel-framed buildings (most of them, especially over 6 stories) is that the noise travels in strange ways. For example, the noise of my neighbor directly overhead was muffled, but I was really surprised to hear every single word of an angry conversation taking place between my neighbors who lived 5 stories down, carried over the steel frame like a radio broadcast. I recognized their voices and was able to make out every word. Bizarre effect.
The one thing really modern bldgs have going for them is the great soundproofing. I looked at rental apts at the new 10 story next to the Loyola el station, the Morgan, and you absolutely could not hear the train or traffic noise with the windows closed, and it was very muffled with the windows partly open. No noise from the hall or other apartments.
Thanks, Laura. I love 3500, but the lack of parking there seems like a huge drawback. Where do people park?
I used to know people who lived in 3500, and their place was beautiful, a unit about 10 floors up right on the preferred southeast corner. The cheap units you’re mentioning are nice, but they’re on the southwest side of the building, and I’m pretty sure they don’t have good lake views. For a good view, you probably have to pay $300,000 or more.
thank you Laura,
i always wondered about this, i thought with the concrete and plaster that the sound transmission would be nill, and with drywall and steel would be horrible.
when we rented a condo for the summer two summers ago the “neighbor noise” was bearable. it was newish construction, 90’s i think, but it reminded me why i love living in my house.
Key to noise-minimizing in multi-family buildings is mass. Wood-framed vintage 3-flats and 6-flats have a fair amount of noise transmission between the ceiling and floor sandwich, plus the squeeky wood floors. Vintage high-rise buildings have concrete slabs w/wood flooring installed on top, providing much sound-deadening. Same with the clay-tile demising walls between units, which then had plaster wall installed as finish surface. Many newer high-rises have only fire-rated drywall assemby demising partitions and noise, particularly deep tones, DO transmit from unit to unit. Another reason to focus on vintage buildings constructed before 1960s.
Multi-family buildings constructed near el tracks SOMETIMES include some sound-deadening additional insulation and triple-glazing to lessen outside noise.
Laura,
The issue I have with 3500 and 3750 is this: It’s impractical from a cost standpoint.
Let’s talk about a theoretical relatively well-heeled couple in their 50s who have paid off their SFH on the North Shore and have kids in college. They want to move to Lakeview, and are looking for a 3 BR, vintage place with a lake view. They have pretty good savings, and want to retire before they’re 70, or, preferably, by the time they’re 65.
Look, here’s a unit at 3500 LSD for only $300,000! It’s on a relatively high floor, with a lake view. The couple can sell their SFH for say, $500,000, and pay $300,000 cash for the home at 3500. What a deal for a beautiful, luxurious co-op in a great neighborhood and elegant building.
But there’s a major hitch. They were paying about $10,000 a year in property taxes on the SFH (remember, they’d paid off the mortgage, so this was their only home payment). But now they’ve got a $30,000 a year bill for their home at 3500 (assuming $2,500 a month for taxes/assessment). Do they really want to triple their housing costs? (well, maybe not triple, since some costs, like heat, are included, but you get my point).
Second: No parking! If they want it, it’s two buildings away (oh the fun of trudging through the snow to get to your car), and it costs $200 a month, minimum (add anther $2,400 a year to the cost of living). And if they want to have a dinner party for a few other couples, the other couples can try to find street parking or take the bus. How nice.
The other choice, if they want vintage, is to move into a three-flat or courtyard in the same area. But those have lots of issues of their own, including poorly-funded reserves, small associations, and of course, no parking either.
yes Dan but these hypothetical old folk dont have a view of the lake with thier paid off 500k house. an extra 20 a year for location/view could be worth it in their eyes.
and honestly only 10k for taxes on a 500k house on the north shore????
I see your point, Dan, and it’s because of the parking problem and the sky-high HOA that these units are languishing at prices well under $200K. Two big 3-3s are priced at $175K and 169K respectively and nobody’s biting. You really have to be an awfully well-off person to live at 3500.
But the other vintage high rise bldgs in Lakeview are the same or close. 3750 is out of the question, highest HOA fees per square foot on the drive. 421 W Melrose is a fright and this building, 3740, is really not much better at around $2000 a month HOA and taxes.
However, consider the HOA on these places vs the taxes AND utilities and main. on the $500K North Shore home and these places don’t look too bad, especially considering that you never have to shovel snow or touch a lawn, or worry about contracting the people to take care of stuff like this for you. Physical maintenance on a large SF house is not cheap and routine chores like cleaning gutters and mowing lawns become very challenging when you grow old.
Parking is the big problem in Lakeview, always has been. Most of my friends have had to scramble for parking space there, oftentimes renting at the public garages on Broadway or renting spaces in apartment bldgs with garages. Most prewar buildings don’t have one space per unit. 3800 has the best parking of all the prewar buildings and I think 3750 has some, though Im not sure.
“…a theoretical relatively well-heeled couple in their 50s who have paid off their SFH on the North Shore and have kids in college. They want to move to Lakeview, and are looking for a 3 BR, vintage place with a lake view.”
I don’t know which group of buyers is smaller: North Shore families whose kids are in college yet have paid off their SFH, or well-heeled couples looking to move from the North Shore to Lake View (looking to move into a building on Lakeview might be another story).
“Parking is the big problem in Lakeview, always has been. Most of my friends have had to scramble for parking space there, oftentimes renting at the public garages on Broadway or renting spaces in apartment bldgs with garages. Most prewar buildings don’t have one space per unit. 3800 has the best parking of all the prewar buildings and I think 3750 has some, though Im not sure.”
Dan #2, you will have to sacrifice something. You’ll have to buy in Lincoln Park in a newer building to get your lake view and parking. Or you’ll have to give up the lake view and get vintage like that building we’ve chattered about on Barry several times (lower assessments but big vintage units like this one is.)
Think you’re right, Sabrina. For the theoretical couple, it’s more likely a 1960s or 1970s high rise in LP or the vintage on Barry. The 3500s, 3750s, etc. only make sense if you’re very wealthy. The unit prices can really fool you.
The amazing thing is, I know people in their 40s with kids who live at 3750. They must be wealthier than I thought.
3500 LSD unit 8A recently sold for $133,500. Wow. Just more proof of how the high ongoing cost of ownership in these buildings diminshes their market value.
Dan, anyone who lives at 3750 with a family is wealthy. Even the smallish 1600 sq ft 2-2s in there have monthly assessments of $1500. For the really large 3-3s, the assessments are just massive. Additionally, this building scrutinizes prospective buyers exhaustively. The board there will make very, very sure that you have the wherewithal to meet the cost of living there with no problems; the owners there have no intention of getting stuck with an insolvent resident who leaves owing thousands of dollars in assessment arrears.
JPS, I am flat-out amazed at a price of $133K for one of the large units at 3500 (they are all large3-3s or bigger, I believe). These are really huge and beautiful apartments in a great location. Someone else posting here awhile back suggested that the maintenance on these old buildings might become so oppressive that the units have to be given away because what an “owner” is, is really a rent-payer with a lifelong lease. Owners of these units really need to work on ways to make their buildings more efficient. Perhaps that is a good trade off- you get a magnificent apt for an unbelievably cheap price, but you have to spend again the price of the place to weatherize the building and revamp the mechanical systems for gains in efficiency. The owners of most of these old buildings mostly refuse to do this until the place is about to fall down, like the Edgewater Beach was in the 90s, when the bill for 50 years of deferred maintenance came due, to the tune of about $37 million AFTER subsidies from the state and city. Most people there could not afford it and had to sell at whatever price they could get; others had $40,000 special assessments for the massive work required on the stucco, the garage, and the pool, among other things, that they had to finance. It would therefore be smart for the association in a building to face the situation before it gets critical and realize that they are going to have to a lot of expensive work on their buildings if they want them to hold their value and keep monthly costs under control. But most people find it easier to confront a small raise in the assessment every few months, never calculating how it is adding up, than to deal with a big capital expenditure all at once even though that expenditure would save them 3X its cost down the road in reduced operating costs. That is how people are, which is why most of us are broke.
“Most people there could not afford it and had to sell at whatever price they could get; others had $40,000 special assessments for the massive work required on the stucco, the garage, and the pool, among other things, that they had to finance.”
Why is this limited to the pre-war buildings? I’ve seen this with nearly every condo building in the city. Sure- there are some that are very well run (in fact, in many of the listings from some of the 1970 high rises the agent will actually list “never had a special in 32 years”- but that is NOT the norm.)
Heck, I know someone who bought in a brand new building in the west loop in 2005. Spent $300,000 for the 2/2. By 2011, they had a $10,000 per unit special to repair the “new” construction. You either had to come up with the cash or you could do a monthly financing. Good times!
Condo living, especially in large buildings, can be risky financially.
You’re right, Sabrina. I’ve heard of up to $50,000 per unit for certain South Loop buildings to repair faulty construction.
However, when a new place is built correctly, it’s usually going to be a few decades before real work is needed to replace outdated mechanical elements, and new buildings by and large have much better insulation. The elderly places were built to be heated with coal when coal was dirt cheap, and insulation was not a really well-developed science in the 20s and 30s. I would expect a new place to be much cheaper to heat per cubic foot, and I believe it is urgent to get your pre-1980 building sufficiently weatherized while natural gas is still ridiculously cheap.
In general, old buildings mean a lot more maintenance and higher costs to operate, and while I am a vintage-lover and really don’t want to buy anything but a 20s or 30s vintage, I realize that these places come with additional baggage.