1-Bedroom Vintage Beauty in Edgewater Glen: 1439 W. Elmdale
This 1-bedroom vintage unit at 1439 W. Elmdale in Edgewater Glen recently came on the market for the first time in nearly 11 years.
Located on the top floor in a courtyard building with 26 units, it has a full-sized dining room.
The kitchen has been renovated and has white 42 inch cabinets, stainless steel appliances and soap stone counter tops.
There is no central air (only window units) or parking, but there is an in-unit washer/dryer.
Leigh Marcus at @Properties has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #3S: 1 bedroom, 1 bath, dining room, no square footage listed
- Sold in August 1993 for $64,000
- Sold in August 1997 for $70,000
- Sold in April 2000 for $129,000
- Currently listed for $175,000
- Assessments of $230 a month (includes heat)
- Taxes of $1354
- No central air- window units only
- No parking
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Bedroom: 13×10
- Living room: 17×13
- Dining room: 13×11
- Kitchen: 10×8
I think it passes most of these hurdles:
According to CC’ers these seem to be the places that should only be rented, never bought:
-Anything near the EL
-Anything too far from the EL
-Anything above a restaurant or certain types of stores
-Anything on the first floor / garden level
-Anything with less than 3 bedrooms
-Anything without a dedicated parking space, generally covered and heated
-Anything within 1/2 mile of public housing
-Anything on a main street (Clybourn, Belmont, etc. etc.)
-Anything without central air, in unit w/d
-Most things made since 2003-ish (they are all cookie cutter, low quality, cinder-block types)
-Any SFH not on a standard size lot or larger
Add “nothing west of Western” (TB)
only rent places with 1 bathroom (sonies)
Anyting In Uptown
Anything with wood-burning fire places
something about suitable or unsuitable for vampires?
Meh….
No parking is a deal breaker for me. Also, this is another place that should be a rental.
Also the 2000 price seems high to me for the area at that time in that hood, but I am not an expert in the area.
Ummmmmm yeah ummmmmm wellllll ummmmmmm its a 1br apartment going for 175k
hey it has “HOME IS TOPPED OFF WITH DESIGNER PAINT”
“Ummmmmm yeah ummmmmm wellllll ummmmmmm its a 1br apartment going for 175k
hey it has “HOME IS TOPPED OFF WITH DESIGNER PAINT””
At current rates, it’s about $1100/mo. If you were planning to stay a decade, like the current owner, there are worse thing to do.
The two problems: proximity to Senn and the 25 people you are entering into a partnership with.
It’s 2.8%/yr over the 2000 price, at ask, so assuming (I think safely) that the current owner did some of the updating, the issue is that, as Jason notes, they paid a bit too much in 2000. Prob would have been better at about $100k, and the same annual increase would then take it to $135–which would seem cheap to me.
Also–parking right around here *is* pretty tight.
anon – all of these analyses are theoretically correct but does that translate into reality? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Why? – because most people don’t make real estate and living decisions on theory and calculation – they make it on a combination of many factors – ones that you do not (and cannot) put into your tight little equations. So, basically, all of these analyses are just a big waste of time….
“At current rates, it’s about $1100/mo. If you were planning to stay a decade, like the current owner, there are worse thing to do”
you would really have to like the area (or need to be), its a nice place, but would you really want to buy it when you have so much to choos from?
it says #3s but i count four floors?
I wonder if this was bought in 2000 person lived there for a few years moved on and rented?
I kind of like this list:
-Anything near the EL
This place looks like it is about 4 or five blocks from the Thorndale Stop on the El – CHECK
-Anything too far from the EL
See above
-Anything above a restaurant or certain types of stores
CHECK
-Anything on the first floor / garden level
Check
-Anything with less than 3 bedrooms
BUZZ – try again.
I would never buy a 1 bedroom unless:
1) I was planning on living alone for the rest of my life and dying there;
2) I was rich like CLIO and wanted an In-towner so I could sail my yacht in Chicago during the summer, but it sure as hell would not be in Edgewater.
3) I was rich like CLIO and had a kid in college who was going to Loyola and needed a place to stay for four years.
-Anything without a dedicated parking space, generally covered and heated
BUZZ – Parking on the street is awful. My garage is not heated and I am ok with that.
-Anything within 1/2 mile of public housing
Not sure about this area, but looks like a “CHECK”
-Anything on a main street (Clybourn, Belmont, etc. etc.) Public housing is fine, just not condensed public housing. I have no problem with scattered site housing it works. You just can’t put 10 “scattered site” housing projects on the same block like our idiot alderman. It does not work.
-Anything without central air, in unit w/d – BUZZ.
-Most things made since 2003-ish (they are all cookie cutter, low quality, cinder-block types)- CHECK
-Any SFH not on a standard size lot or larger (N/A)
Add “nothing west of Western” (TB)- CHECK
only rent places with 1 bathroom (sonies) BUZZ!! See above…
Anyting In Uptown – If this place was in Uptown I would offer $200,000.00
Anything with wood-burning fire places – CHECK
something about suitable or unsuitable for vampires? – This place is clearly suitable for vampires.
Also, I would not like to live in a building with so many units.
FAIL.
Place is quite pretty and large for a 1 bedroom.
“does that translate into reality? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Why? ”
i’ll go ahead and answer that. Clio, it is because most purchasers of real estate are uneducated consumers who listen to their realtors for “honest advice” which “translated into reality” is amusing, because all the realtors care about is getting a deal done and getting paid, not what is in the best interest of their clients who they are providing “unbiased” advice toward.
Sonies is correct, trust me I learned the hard way years ago, but got out of it thank God.
“So, basically, all of these analyses are just a big waste of time….”
Not any bigger than you saying the same thing over and over (and over and over (and over and over)) again, my friend. At least the numbers change.
Not to mention, re-read it–I’m saying that it’s a decent deal for the quality of the unit, if the association is in good shape, you have a reasonably long horizon and you like the location (I’m not a big fan, and you’d probably find it scary, but neither of us is going to live there anyway).
That wallpaper and archway thing is pretty fun. Great condition. Looks nice.
Sonies, I don’t think the realtors are to blame – people are attracted to certain places for very different reasons (most are not practical but are based in fantasy/ego, etc.).
That being said and agreed upon – you HAVE to factor this emotional impact into pricing. That is where it becomes difficult. Home builders understand this and that is why they do so many studies on what fantasies people have, what things they desire the most, where they see themselves, etc. – they are all playing on emotion and fantasy – and ignoring (for the most part) the practical and financial aspects.
Sellers should also remember this when marketing properties. Enhance the “fantasy” aspects of your property. For example, if you live on an estate like property – you HAVE to appeal to buyers that want that kind of lifestyle. If you live in a highrise full of younger people, you HAVE to appeal to buyers that want that lifestyle. Again, such an easy concept but lost on SO MANY PEOPLE!!!!!
“Not to mention, re-read it–I’m saying that it’s a decent deal for the quality of the unit, if the association is in good shape, you have a reasonably long horizon and you like the location”
anon- re read my post. I make no mention of whether this particular place is a good deal or not (I don’t know this area and cannot comment). My remarks were about making an analysis based solely on numbers and percentages without factoring emotional/fantasy component.
Also FYI, Thorndale (together with jarvis and lawrence) stop will likely be removed down the road, might be something 4-5 or even 10yrs out, but just something to keep in mind if you are planning on buying and selling this in the short term
well duh, salespeople always use emotions to get things closed… but when spending nearly 3x your annual income on something, it would be good to have a source (like cribchatter) that can put things into real world terms from someone who doesn’t have a monetary or emotional tie to a property.
sonies – I don’t think the typical “real” homebuyer is on cribchatter. In fact, I think very very few home buyers look at this site. Investors are another story……
cliochatter.com
speaking of investors,
clio: what is your opinion of this investor property?
closed today, closed in less than 30 days from initial list, presumably all cash, $11,000 over listing price; under contract within 48 hours.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4055-N-Kenneth-Ave-60641/home/13481787
-Anything near the EL- agreed esp if right on the El
-Anything too far from the EL – depends on if your gonna use the el
-Anything above a restaurant or certain types of stores -Agreed, really anything with mix retail
-Anything on the first floor / garden level – 100% agree
-Anything with less than 3 bedrooms – I think that is right for most couples who have or may have kids. You need to live there longer since prices will not rise to cover transaction costs, so you want room to grow. Plus for resale there will be less market for these as young couples realize that the idea of getting a starter condo and selling it in 2-3 year when they have kids does not work out without a bubble to insure enough increase in equity to cover transaction cost. Lots of young couples are stuck in 2/1 and 2/2s right now, I think there will be much less demand for these going forward.
-Anything without a dedicated parking space, generally covered and heated – I agree, to buy you should have parking, you will be competing against properties with parking when you sell, so if there is no parking make sure it is reflected in the price. In some areas with tight parking it is a deal killer.
-Anything within 1/2 mile of public housing – I am flexible on crime but poor areas generally mean poor schools.
-Anything on a main street (Clybourn, Belmont, etc. etc.)- 100% agreed
-Anything without central air, in unit w/d – central air is not so important if you are close to the lake. I would want WD even in a rental.
-Most things made since 2003-ish (they are all cookie cutter, low quality, cinder-block types) – 100% agreed.
-Any SFH not on a standard size lot or larger – if it by a park who needs a yard, however, you must consider what future buyers will want and what other sfh’s in the area offer.
I have rented for the last five years and could not be happier. My 401k is being maxed out, my savings are growing and if I need to move for work I can. I have paid way less to rent than it would have cost to buy and I have not had to worry about reaoirs or increases in property taxes. Plus I have been able to move as my needs changed and have lived exactly where I wanted with lots of affordable rental choices. If buying ever makes sense I am sure I will, but if not I am very happy as a renter.
Oh, and it had over $500,000 in mortgages on it before going into foreclosure.
The warranty deed from the last sale in 1994 says it sold for :……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
$150,000.00
“My remarks were about making an analysis based solely on numbers and percentages without factoring emotional/fantasy component.”
Um, I was using numbers to say I thought it was pretty okay WITHOUT the (again and again and again) “psychological factors”.
Sold for $130,000 today.
HD – I wish I knew more about the north side of chicago – it seems that many people are interested in this area. Unfortunately I cannot comment (yeah, I know -gasp!) but I really do not know values or home prices in any of the areas north of addison or any block over 1000 west.
“Not any bigger than you saying the same thing over and over (and over and over (and over and over)) again, my friend. At least the numbers change.”
hahaaha, i need to change the superman undies on that one, CLASSIC
“Also FYI, Thorndale (together with jarvis and lawrence) stop will likely be removed down the road, might be something 4-5 or even 10yrs out”
now, from what i remember a few years back it was a half-azzed proposal and the blago senior ride proposal took center stage it just hung out there forgotten.
now dont forget rahmfather (our next mayor) wants to renovate redline north, dont be tricked buy the wild hundred extension or the up to 95th renovation its just smoke to appease/ease the money he wants use to improve red line north. yep the same area his allegiance lies.
This apartment is way overpriced. I have been tracking it since it came on the market I like the location- on an attractive block close to the Thorndale el and Dominick’s and Aldi’s and CVS and the sushi place on Broadway and the library and Moody’s, plus an easy walk to Andersonville.
Look past the pretty finishes and kitchen- it is an apartment that would rent at most for about $1100 at the most, if even that much.
It is EXACTLY like my 4-room 1 bed rental apt on Pratt close to Sheridan, except that mine rents for $845 heat & excellent maintenance included. This place is in a slightly better location than mine and has a nicer kitchen, but mine really is a much prettier apartment over the whole, with all the vintage details intact. And even though I’m over the line in Rogers Park, 8 blocks north, I’m a block from the beach and this is not. My building looks a lot better, too. I’d rent it for $1050 were I in the mood to move.
But before you use a Rule of Thumb like 160X , or even 120X the monthly rent, figure you must pay your taxes and HOA and insurance out of the rent. What’s left is the TRUE RENT, to cover your mortgage.
There is no way you could rent this place out for its market rental, let’s say $1,050.00 heat included, AND still pay for the mortgage, monthly HOA (which includes heat) insurance, and taxes, and pay $175K. You would come nowhere near covering your monthly nut on it.
Additionally, there is a certain 3 bed 2 bath in a very elegant old mid-rise in Edgewater that has fallen to $109K after languishing on the market for a year. I won’t say what address because I WANT IT. It, too, has a high HOA- $680.00- but it is 1700 sq feet and way prettier and nicer, and in a much better location, than this little place.
No way will this place sell over $100K if even that.
Laura – what are you waiting for? Put in an offer – even if it low – that is the only way you will really get to know what the seller is willing to do. For my properties, I take each and every offer very seriously – and I will try to make a deal with even someone who lowballs me. It really can’t hurt
Laura, It was overpriced in 2000 also.
Laura, It was overpriced in 2000 also.
HD, at least they will be close to the Sears if they need more hammers for their reno
Laura – I think you are about 100 off on your assess but it is gorgeous. Good luck.
“it is an apartment that would rent at most for about $1100 at the most”
That’s about the cost of ownership, at a 5% rate. Excluding maintenance, sure, and having tax bennies (such as they are) wash with the diff b/t renter’s and owner’s insurance cost.
“No way will this place sell over $100K if even that.”
No way *Laura* would pay over $100k for it. Barring defects not evident in the listing (incl HOA issues), no way it drops below the 2000 price.
gesco:
Also FYI, Thorndale (together with jarvis and lawrence) stop will likely be removed down the road, might be something 4-5 or even 10yrs out, but just something to keep in mind if you are planning on buying and selling this in the short term
More info on Red Line/Purple Line proposed changes here:
http://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2011/01/03/2010-33065/intent-to-prepare-an-environmental-impact-statement-for-proposed-transit-improvements-to-the-north#p-30
The potential exists to consolidate stops, while providing additional access points; examples of this could include: Adding an Ainslie entrance to Argyle station and removing Lawrence station; adding a Glenlake entrance to Granville station and a Hollywood entrance to Bryn Mawr station and removing Thorndale station; and providing additional access to Howard station at Rogers Avenue and removing Jarvis station.
The owner of this place put down $13,000 on the $130,000 purchase in 2000. In 2003 the owner refinanced from a roughly $116,000 mortgage into a $125,000 mortgage. In 2008 the owner ‘liberated’ another $50,000 in equity in the form of a second mortgage from Charter One bank. As it stands today the owner owes a face value of $175,000 in mortgages on a unit he/she purchased for $129,000 over 11 years ago, although the principal amount is probably slightly lower than that due to the fact some of the principal has been repaid in the last 8 years. If the owner were to ask for any less, this unit would be a short sale.
Love, love, love soapstone counters. Hate, hate, hate, tree wallpaper in vintage units.
Regarding the train, there have been ongoing meetings about the red/purple north of Belmont. See here:
http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/cta-tattler/2011/01/one-readers-thoughts-on-cta-red-purple-line-improvements.html
Laura it might be overpriced, but is it WAY overpriced? I say it sells for $160K.
“No way *Laura* would pay over $100k for it. Barring defects not evident in the listing (incl HOA issues), no way it drops below the 2000 price.”
I think that it may sell for over 100k but if that is were the market is then most folks would be better off renting.
No,Icarus, it will sell nowhere near $160K.
There are too many better apartments in the same area that are languishing at much cheaper prices. Many are lakefront.
As I say, this place is faintly inferior to what I’m renting not far away, or what you can rent in Andersonville and Edgewater with heat and main and taxes included. Better kitchen that my rental and better location so I wouldn’t make a precise comparison- I compare it to a similar Edgewater rental, which would be about $1050 including all the things that are add ons to your mortgage when you buy.
There’s also a parking problem on this street. Forget about it. That doesn’t matter to me but it does to most buyers.
The lenders will be looking very closely at the comparables and RENT PARITY going forward. Maybe you could get a FHA insured loan hree, but I doubt even FHA would write you for it…. especially since in 2009, a one bed foreclosure that needed work sold for about $80K here.
I’d give more since this one is in such good condition, but not much more. Especially with a lakefront 3 bed 2 bath that is BEAUTIFUL for $109K, not far away.
My opinion is that this sells slightly above the 2000 price, except that the seller cannot go that low. The seller is clearly underwater. As the studies have shown, the biggest risks of default are those borrowers which are more than 20% underwater, plus, a life event (job loss, divorce, illness, birth of child, major expense etc) = default, nearly guaranteed. The owner will not live in this unit and remain underwater forever. Something will happen, I don’t know what, but I presume that it will go off the market after some time.
Jason- “Anything within 1/2 mile of public housing” Prime areas of the Gold Coast (Dearborn/State Street) are within 1/2 mile of public housing. So now we can’t buy in the Gold Coast?
“Public housing is fine, just not condensed public housing. I have no problem with scattered site housing it works. You just can’t put 10 “scattered site” housing projects on the same block like our idiot alderman. It does not work.”
–Agree,who is your alderman?
@Laura, you would know better than I, as I don’t know the area and was really just guessing. Which shows that someone who wants to live there but is too lazy to do the research might be pursuaded by an unsurpulous realtor — if such a creature exists to buy it.
“In 2008 the owner ‘liberated’ another $50,000 in equity in the form of a second mortgage from Charter One bank”
HD,
only an assumption!!!!, the persons HELOC balance could be only $1,000, $10, or $45,000.
Clio,
I suspect that “typical” homebuyers such as myself are plentiful on this site, but have difficulty participating because your numerous posts about our ignorance drown out the conversation about the property at hand.
I live in the property I just purchased, and it may surprise you to know that I actually considered the potential rental income of the building rather than the curb appeal or my ability to paint the walls. Factor in as much “emotional value” into your asking price as you want; I value it at zero.
Are you suggesting the owner paid for the high end fixture and renovation in cash and then took out a HELOC but didn’t use any of the balance?
I think it is a reasonable assumption that the owner borrowed the $50,000 in 2008 to renovate the unit.
“#Groove77 on January 27th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
“In 2008 the owner ‘liberated’ another $50,000 in equity in the form of a second mortgage from Charter One bank”
HD,
only an assumption!!!!, the persons HELOC balance could be only $1,000, $10, or $45,000.”
@ a local on
That list is kind of a running joke. I know plenty of vampires who live in the Cold Coast….
Shiller is the alderman.
clio, I want a bigger apt than this. I’ll RENT in four rooms, but for home sweet home, I want 5 or maybe 6.
But if I want to pay anything like $175K for a 4 room 1 bed, I’ll grab that place at 440 W Surf. I love that neighborhood and miss it.
Listen,babe, I have my eyes on a very beautiful Edgewater vintage 3 bed 2 bath for way less money than this, in a better location. I want the place very much, in spite of its problems. I’m just trying to pull together a slightly higher downpayment, because I want to pay it off in less than 10 years. I’m really too old to bury myself for 30 years.
This seller on Elmdale just wants to cover his HELOC. I don’t think anyone is going to do it for him.
Jason, this place is located in the 48th Ward. Mary Ann Smith has been the alderman here and she did a wonderful job of rescuing this ward from blight and crime.
She’s stepping down, too, along with Schiller in the 46th ward.
“Are you suggesting the owner paid for the high end fixture and renovation in cash and then took out a HELOC but didn’t use any of the balance?
I think it is a reasonable assumption that the owner borrowed the $50,000 in 2008 to renovate the unit.”
no the assumption odds are in your favor, but we cant count it as fact only “grain of salt” factor.
i use the example of my HELOC all the time here my balance is 7k, and only to keep the HELOC active but if you check the recorder of deeds you wont see 7,000 you will see xxx,xxx
that 7k was for a bathroom remodel and at 3.15% worth every penny to keep the bank from closing my cushion or reducing its spread.
“I live in the property I just purchased….”
uhhh – so you are NOT in the market right now…… My post said that many people who are home buyers and in the market right now are not looking to cribchatter for direction. I stand by what I said…. and you, too, can ignore my posts..
Laura, I was talking about putting in an offer on the place that you like. Go low – or ask the seller if they would be willing to do a personal loan/contract sale type purchase. You would be surprised. I would hate for you to wait to get a higher downpayment only to lose the place…. you seem so passionate about vintage units – I totally appreciate that!!!
Thanks, Clio, that is a good idea. There are two things holding me back from this vintage beauty that I’ve had my eye on for FOUR YEARS since it foreclosed, which are my doubtful job stability and the necessity for a large amount of cash to cover downstroke plus assessment arrears plus any tax arrears.
I hear that a new state law says that a new buyer cannot have to absorb more than 6 months’ worth of assessments, which would be about $4000 in this place. I do not know what back taxes might be due and must have cash to cover them if necessary.
Thankfully, the place doesn’t need work beyond painting and decorating- carpet removal, floor refinishing, new light fixtures, etc. There are things I would LIKE to do but they can wait.
But I really want to make sure I’m totally stable and have not only cash for down payment and any tax and HOA arrears, but have a large cash reserve in case anything happens to my employment. I’ve taken enough (self-inflicted) hits over the past twenty years and don’t want to be another foreclosure statistic. That absolutely terrifies me, because at my age you do not recover from financial disasters so easily.
I love how the last paragraph of this article applies so well to housing market too:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/28/arts/28iht-melik28.html?ref=global-home
No longer people are willing to pay for second-rate homes marketed as premium buys.
Laura, You seem to know very well what you are doing and it is wise of you to be conservative and careful. I hope you get the place you love, but better safe than sorry. Even if that one goes away, there will be others. Best wishes for you!
I am in the market to buy (subject to the restritions on the amended list Icarus posted), and I find the opinions expressed here invaluable.
“I am in the market to buy (subject to the restritions on the amended list Icarus posted):
….so in other words, you are living in a fantasy world and are not a serious buyer. Seriously, how many people who are actively looking for a personal residence and have an agent and who would be willing to purchase a place TODAY are on this site? My guess would be: not many. People here are either people questioning whether they should be in the market, people who are “kind of looking”, real estate buffs, some real estate investors, recent buyers who are nervous whether they made a wise decisions, and then those people who just want to complain and gripe…..
Laura, dont worry about back taxes or assesments, its a foreclosure so those will be resolved (although the 6 months is true).
Put in an offer for something were you feel that if there was a problem with your job you would be able to rent it for your monthly costs, mortgage, taxes, HOA, insurance.
“Seriously, how many people who are actively looking for a personal residence and have an agent and who would be willing to purchase a place TODAY are on this site? ”
ooh, ooooo, i am, call on me, call on me [emphatically raises hand]
“….so in other words, you are living in a fantasy world ”
Funny!
is it funny bc he is the pot calling the kettle black? or is it funny bc he is constantly advising to ignore the data and focus on the psychological?
its funny in a lot of ways
I think this apartment is exceptionally beautiful. Really nice looking kitchen, great layout etc. I have a three flat a few blocks north of here and have no problem renting out smaller but nicely finished one bed apartments for $1100.
I just don’t know what the market is for one bedroom condos.
Clio-
“….so in other words, you are living in a fantasy world and are not a serious buyer.”
I have saved myself from ENORMOUS capital losses over the last 36 months by sticking to my guns, and to the list. The market is coming to me, and I am getting close to fulfilling my goals.
In the mean time, I rent a lovely, large apartment (from a great landlord) in an amazing Green Zone neighborhood. The thousands of dollars I have saved every month by renting have enabled me build my wealth via positions in precious metals.
Look at a 3 year silver or gold price chart, oh wise one. Compare that to the Case Shiller index. Bull versus bear market. You’re operating from a paradign that served you well during the structureal bull market for all assets that occured from 1982-2006. We’ve turned a corner and you are trying to party like it’s 2006 still. You a trapped long in a market that has rolled over.
It’s okay to buy in a bear market, but zen-like patience and dicipline are required. I possess both.
I looked at another unit in this condo recently. I thought it was a perfectly nice, acceptable unit in good condition, but I thought the neighborhood was just ok, nothing great. The Thorndale el stop is convenient. I did not know they were thinking of demolishing it. Sorry to hear that. You’re right – that would make it WAY less appealing. The huge Dominick’s on Broadway is great.
The stretch of N Clark right by the apartment isn’t the nicest stretch of Clark. The street is really wide and busy. There are a few autobody repair shops. There are a few interesting stores on Clark but they are really spread out. Andersonville is not far, but it’s not that close either. The surrounding area doesn’t have an Andersonville flavor at all. It’s perfectly fine, but it felt a little depressing and removed to me although it was aesthetically pretty with a lot of beautiful SFHs. Someone else might love this neighborhood. It was a gray day and it seemed like there were a lot of drunk old people around on Broadway. It just depressed me. It wasn’t remotely scary or dangerous. Just bland and no young people around. I felt like I would be lonely staying there and that it was in the type of location where it would be hard to get people to visit you.
My investment property is in the other part of Edgewater in a highrise on the lake. It has a totally different flavor. I’ll admit that area is also bland with little wow-factor, but my unit is in a great building with excellent amenities and excellent management and they do a lot of cool events like a 5 cent movie night in the party room every month so you can socialize and meet your neighbors. I might just take that place over as my own if my tenant decides to move some day.
As for the condo association at 1439 W Elmdale, you should carefully review the building financials if you are considering buying here. I know that they have about 11K in receivables owed. What else could that be besides unpaid assessments? That’s a lot of money for a 26 unit building and this could only become worse over the next couple of years. Also, obtain the condo board meeting minutes. I was not impressed by the way the board handled some issues such as trying to make individual owners pay for water leaks from common areas. That was a turn-off and it scared me off. I didn’t have confidence that the board knew how to properly run a condo.
“I think this apartment is exceptionally beautiful. Really nice looking kitchen, great layout etc. I have a three flat a few blocks north of here and have no problem renting out smaller but nicely finished one bed apartments for $1100.
I just don’t know what the market is for one bedroom condos.”
As noted, it’s basically a rent-saver at ask w/ $1100 equivalent rent, so it’s all about horizon for a buyer.
And, of course, the HOA issues Milkster noted. That would take it out of the running, imo, at *any* price.
It was from this site that I learned to stay away from anything that American Invsco had been involved with, and to be wary of other specific buildings. When we were looking I told my agent which buildings I did not want him to show us based on the comments in cribchatter. I knew nothing about Chicago real estate before I started on this site, and the advice was very helpful to us. We have a place that we are very happy with although I know we will loose money on it when we go to sell in a few years.
Narcissism: From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.
TB, if I were you I would pull your money out of precious metals. Consider yourself lucky you made the return that you did in them.
TB, yours is a heart warming tale that illustrates the happiness and optimism to be found in the return of sustainable prices.
clio, on the internet I am a Harvard PHD educated, astronaut pornstar mega billionaire with multiple estates all over the country and world so I can lecture you all I want! Nobody on the internets cares about your [supposed] wealth or education because you sound like a moronic koolaid drinkin realtard whenever you post!
Good lookin’, too!
well duh, what pornstar astronaut billionaire isn’t good looking?
gesco, why do you think metals are headed south?
@Sonies
You forgot the lambo. Please never again forget to mention the lambo that brings happiness
nice comprehension again… I’m making fun of dumb realtors… not kids who were born that way, I’m making fun of someone who chooses to be stupid
sonies – the difference is that my stories have been independently confirmed (w/o my permission) so everybody KNOWS my story is true. Furthermore, it IS incredibly important to know the person who is posting so you know how much/or little to listen to them. If you are in the market to buy a SFH in Kenilworth, are you really going to listen to a 24 y/o uneducated intern making 30k/year and renting w/ 4 roommates?
Sonies, do us all a favor and ignore my posts. G – please do the same. It will save ALL of us from this ridiculous back- and-forth.
Yeah this is getting a little bit silly here, Clio is really the only significant contributor on CribChatter who is active player in real estate. Meaning he owns 13 properties (including a 15 acre farm), has rehabbed and sold over 27 condos, and is currently actively on the lookout to purchase more properties. I mean who else can really comment on properties over 1 million, personally I have no ideas what that market is like.
I can say for myself that his perspective is really valued, and even if you don’t agree with them fine, but just relax and stay civil.
Without Clio most of the banter going on here would just be between people who aren’t planning on buying or selling in the near term, just complaining about how prices are going to fall more, and what use is that.
puhlease my Maybach Exelero brings far more joy to people than a friggin hunk of italin junk gallardo
not to mention my 200′ yacht I keep harbored at Santorini Island
“the difference is that my stories have been independently confirmed (w/o my permission) so everybody KNOWS my story is true.”
Did I miss the list of all 13 properties that are down over $1M, as you have claimed?
“do us all a favor and ignore my posts. G – please do the same. ”
No, thanks, they bring me great joy. Replying to them, even more so. You, of course, can take your advice anytime and ignore my comments. But, you won’t.
“I mean who else can really comment on properties over 1 million, personally I have no ideas what that market is like.”
Uh, lots of people. $1mm is a lot of money, but it’s hardly stratospheric in the Chicago SFH market.
Also, if there’s a prohibition on commenting on Subject X that you haven’t you self done, there are a *lot* of things that clio comments on that he should stay out of, but doesn’t.
@clio
and again…
Perhaps there is a person that works in medicine drives a lambo and has a large property waiting to be subdivided (more detail I am leaving out deliberately). Let’s call this person RADIO_MAN
That being said. There is no concrete proof that the internet persona “clio” on this blog is RADIO_MAN
I mean I could say that I am Derrick Rose and am glad not to have hobbit legs. 🙂
But just because I say I am Derrick Rose doesn’t mean its true.
So just because “clio” posts details of RADIO_MAN doesn’t mean “clio’ = RADIO_MAN so your argument from authority
“Furthermore, it IS incredibly important to know the person who is posting so you know how much/or little to listen to them. If you are in the market to buy a SFH in Kenilworth, are you really going to listen to a 24 y/o uneducated intern making 30k/year and renting w/ 4 roommates?”
is unfortunately incorrect.
“Clio is really the only significant contributor on CribChatter who is active player in real estate. Meaning he owns 13 properties (including a 15 acre farm), has rehabbed and sold over 27 condos, and is currently actively on the lookout to purchase more properties. I mean who else can really comment on properties over 1 million, personally I have no ideas what that market is like.”
i bet your arms are tired, holding sacks takes great bicep strength!
“I can say for myself that his perspective is really valued,”
*clio on January 27th, 2011 at 10:36 am
sonies – are you retarded?*
advice to live by
“Without Clio most of the banter going on here would just be between people who aren’t planning on buying or selling in the near term, just complaining about how prices are going to fall more, and what use is that.”
yes i do agree, the clio banter about the actual “relevant” stuff is well needed here, its the “other” clio banter that mucks up the works.
clio, how do your “confirmed” wealth and education make you an authority on zen, discipline or patience?
clio is good at getting attention
@Sonies
Santorini island is too far away and as such I’ll never swoon in delirium as I’ll never see the yacht.
Better you drive the Maybach around RN so I have a chance at happiness. Do you mind parking at RainForest Cafe so my friends who drove in from St. Charles can also get a glimpse?
LOL
I hate rainforest Cafe… HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATE! I live right by there… UGH! If I had the power to demolish ONE building… just ONE in my lifetime… I tell you, that would be it
but yeah, i’ll take a spin over there as soon as it stops snowing
Yay i just went under contract on a 1 bedroom in buena park for 70% off its 2005 price and the coolest catch is that doing a 85% LTV. Took 3 weeks for them to finally accept my offer since it was financing and they thought it was cash.
Plan to sell it for 100% of purchase price in a couple years, but given that I only put 15% down, it will be like 800% return. Now thats what i call investing, going for the small under 60k condo purchases.
And for those naysayers, and identical condos 9 floors down sold for 40% more than my purchase price in november.
Sonies, I am so with you on rainforest cafe. It is the ugliest thing ever and it amazes me how it makes money (I assume it does otherwise it would be closed). I mean who goes there?
I had a tourist relative (wifes side) come into town with a bunch of kids, and was forced to eat there… you would LAUGH at how expensive the food is for the just terrible quality you get. I’m not joking, I really wanted to barf after eating from both the amount of money I spent and the terrible quality of the food. At least they had a cool fish tank, but the dimming of the lights and thunder noise they would play every 5 minutes or so made me want to go crazy with rage
I think rain forest cafe is an eyesore… it belongs in the western suburbs or something
lol…I guess kids might like it after all. I don’t even like fish tanks. They look so depressing to me. I have never been inside, but passed on in a mall and it looked so cheesy.
Have you ever tried to catch a falling knife? You see the blade is very sharp and unless you miraculously catch the handle you’re liable to lose a digit or two.
“#gesco on January 27th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
Yay i just went under contract on a 1 bedroom in buena park for 70% off its 2005 price and the coolest catch is that doing a 85% LTV. Took 3 weeks for them to finally accept my offer since it was financing and they thought it was cash.
Plan to sell it for 100% of purchase price in a couple years, but given that I only put 15% down, it will be like 800% return. Now thats what i call investing, going for the small under 60k condo purchases.
And for those naysayers, and identical condos 9 floors down sold for 40% more than my purchase price in november.”
I took my niece and nephew there once and it totally sucked. Terrible food, cheesy animatronics. I doubt I will ever go there again.
“Have you ever tried to catch a falling knife?”
have you ever tried to make real money by investing?
HD, dont understand what your criticism, i found a lender to give me a loan on a building were all the purchases had been cash only since owner occupancy is just under 51% so no fannie/freddie conventional.
And even beyond that creativity in finding the lender im doing only 15% down as opposed to 25-30% one would expect.
I then went under for contract for 40% less than another condos 9 floors down closed at in november. Are you suggesting i didnt get a good deal?
The place just needs about 2k in clean up, newly renovated property that went into foreclosure, someone decided to have a party threw red paint everywhere. really just cosmetic damages.
What is more important in real estate investing:
a large set of cajones, or,
a pencil, a piece of paper and basic math.
I’ve seen too many neighborhood land barons lose their pants to think that making unreasonable financial assumptions is a good way to make money.
“#Sonies on January 27th, 2011 at 4:25 pm
“Have you ever tried to catch a falling knife?”
have you ever tried to make real money by investing?”
HD, the place receives a 13% return with rent, and thats net after paying assesments @ 300 and taxes (which im hoping to appeal).
Why can’t you just accept that folks can get great deals.
The sale of the other unit for 40% more than man despite the lower floors shows that the unit is undervalued
If you said you were going to rent the unit out, use the depreciation to offset your other income, get a 15 year mortgage, rent to cover PITI+HOA and some, so that eventually you will own the asset outright; and then eventually do a 1031 transfer – then that would be a long term investment opportunity that seems to make sense.
however, using your words above, you said, “[I] Plan to sell it for 100% of purchase price in a couple years, but given that I only put 15% down, it will be like 800% return. Now thats what i call investing, going for the small under 60k condo purchases.”
That sounds an awful lot like flipping. that works well in an appreciating market but not in a declining market. Your ‘discount’ is nothing more than a signpost for the next guy who wants to buy in your building. What happens if your unit is worth only 95% of the purchase price in 2015? What if there is a major special assessment? will your purchase price cover rent? What are assessments? what are other owners in the building doing? does one guy own more than X% number of units making it difficult for future purchasers to buy the unit from you?
My docket is filled with cases from failed flippers, rehabbers and land barons. Few had a clear articled strategy; all had access to easy money.
13% return with rent.
What is the % return if there is you lose one month’s rent from tenant vacancy? How about specials?
I can accept that some get good deals. Sometimes I see smart buys, other times I don’t. I do know that if you got a deal for far less than somebody else in the building, it’s a clear signpost that the guy upstairs overpaid, not that you underpaid.
Sure my number might be a bit optimistic, but i’m out there putting in very aggressive offers and often times have benefited from listing agent competence.
In the other building i bought into, a slightly identical 2 bdrm unit in the 13 unit building sold for 66% more than my purchase price 1 month after i closed on mine.
HD, I can say the market wont tolerate the 13% returns i’ve been looking for. I’ve put out offers on about 35 different condos in the last 3 months, always trying to get 13% returns. I only got what i wanted on 2 of them. The rest went to buyers who would be getting returns of 5%, that seems to be the bottom that ive discovered.
Once properties are generating more than 5% net returns, investors are swooping in. On both the condos ive talked about i got them because i put in an offer the day the property was listed or the day the price dropped significantly
And no the 13% doesnt take into account a vacancy rate, but its a couple blocks from the sheridan stop so should be easy to rent, and I would say i used fairly conservative numbers for calculating expected rent.
Sonies – Can we carpool out to Wheaton on your next trip – I’d love to experience the Maybach.
“Sonies – Can we carpool out to Wheaton on your next trip – I’d love to experience the Maybach.”
Who’s getting kicked out to make space for you? MJ, Oprah or Rahm?
That tells me all I need to know. It’s a competitive market with leverage and investors driving up prices regardless of rents. It all sounds so familiar.
All this has happened before, and all this will happen again
“The rest went to buyers who would be getting returns of 5%, that seems to be the bottom that ive discovered. “
“That tells me all I need to know. It’s a competitive market with leverage and investors driving up prices regardless of rents. It all sounds so familiar. ”
5% returns would have been *great* in most cases in 05/06, HD. If every condo purchase loan had been underwritten with a minimum 5 cap for (genuine) equivalent rents, half our problem wouldn’t have happened.
HD, its hard to find properties that give you a net %5 percent return right now. To me that shows that we have found a bottom, since sellers can find buyers when they offer a price with that return.
And when i say i bottom, I mean a bottom for properties, not averages, its still very likely that the average of the market may fall more.
““Sonies – Can we carpool out to Wheaton on your next trip – I’d love to experience the Maybach.””
sure I’ll tell Obama to take the chopper
“I knew nothing about Chicago real estate before I started on this site, and the advice was very helpful to us.”
Thank you SteveA! It’s why I keep running the site. There ARE people who read it who are buying properties and there is good information here (if you can bypass all the other junk that gets thrown around here.)
gesco, how can the avg fall if properties don’t?
That’s not only a 5% return on your money, but a 5% return on your ability to landlord. Remember that next time you’re dealing with a clogged drain or a broken furnace.
Hi Gesco –
I think there are some deals out there right now and I’ve always loved real estate myself, but just don’t rush into anything. Remember, it’s a buyer’s market right now and you have a lot of choice. Buyers don’t have to put up with buying iffy properties. Hold out for something stable and well-run.
Particularly with condos, I’d recommend that people do some serious due diligence. Always get the financials. Always get the condo meeting minutes. Get a list of questions together and talk to the board. If you can’t get this basic info or a working phone number for a board member, don’t touch the place. I’m still enthusiastic about real estate, but reading Cribchatter has tempered that enthusiasm and I am also very grateful to people like homedelete, G, Anon tfo, Russ, Dahliachi, Laura Louzader and Clio too for providing all viewpoints on a case.
One of the most valuable things I have learned is that when buying a condo, your unit is only as healthy as the other units/owners in the building. It doesn’t matter how responsible you are. It sounds obvious now, but I didn’t fully grasp this in the past and would tend to consider the unit I wanted to buy in a vaccuum.
So, just take your time and don’t feel like you have to rush into anything.
HD – I have an accidental landlord story for you. A friend has a place in Connecticut, a cottage. Wasn’t using it as much as before when he was taking the kids up there often so decided to rent it out until this spring then try listing it.
A young couple with a kid move in. They decide to heat the house not with oil, but rather with just the small wood burning stove. This in turns freezes the pipes, and bursts them. Destroyed ceilings, dryway etc – and now they won’t leave and have started to make statements like “I don’t think it is healthy for my child to be in this house”.
Cue lawyers.
Wicker –
I hope your friend has a good insurance policy?
Gesco:
Here’s where I think your buying strategy is flawed when it comes to buying condos. You said this:
“And for those naysayers, and identical condos 9 floors down sold for 40% more than my purchase price in november.”
You do realize that that November buyer will also want to sell at some point in the future, right? If what you say is correct, they are already underwater by 40%. Most people don’t stay in condos very long so in 3 or 4 years when they go to sell- they will be in a very difficult position.
What are the odds for a foreclosure on that unit? I would say probably pretty high. And what will that comp and sale do to YOUR unit in a few years?
Then you have to tack on ALL of the other buyers in the building who, because of your sale and other distressed sales, now are also going to have to sell at a distress price in a few years.
It’s a cancer in the building and it takes years to spread and years to cure. In some of the smaller courtyard buildings, I have seen the entire building ultimately sell in distress (though this takes years- until the other owners figure out that prices are not going to come back for a long, long time.)
Everyone who thinks they’re getting a deal now at $60k will be surprised when, in a few months or a year it’s even cheaper. I’ve seen this time and time again all over the north side. Milkster can probably confirm all the problems in these buildings.
“I looked at another unit in this condo recently. I thought it was a perfectly nice, acceptable unit in good condition, but I thought the neighborhood was just ok, nothing great. The Thorndale el stop is convenient. I did not know they were thinking of demolishing it. Sorry to hear that. You’re right – that would make it WAY less appealing. The huge Dominick’s on Broadway is great.”
Milkster- I’ve been told that the unit you looked at on Greenview is NOT in this condo association. Different building. This building’s association is only for 1439-1441 W. Elmdale.
So the comments about the reserves and what was said in the condo board minutes should not be applied to this building/property.
But it IS good advice to always get the condo minutes when you’re purchasing a property.
“Milkster- I’ve been told that the unit you looked at on Greenview is NOT in this condo association. Different building. This building’s association is only for 1439-1441 W. Elmdale.”
Thanks, Sabrina! My apologies to everyone for the mix-up. I mistakenly assumed that whole complex of similar-looking buildings on that corner made up the same condo association.
What a nightmare. I had a case a few years ago where a client inherited a really really nice condo in a 8-flat in a very nice part of the city. The client, in her infinite wisdom, decided that she wanted the highest monthly rent possible, and of course the best way to get above market rents is to rent section 8. True story. So of course, this being a beautiful place, a gorgeous place, it was let nearly immediately to a section 8 tenant.
The problems started the very first day when the tenant’s movers (aka friends, family) decided to drag belongings up the marble staircase in the foyer and literally broke half a dozen stairs. The association charged my clients $4,000 to fix it. A variety of things went on and then they tried to evict them, but of course, legal aid steps in “for the children” as they say, and dragged out the case for literally 18 months, no rent payments whatsoever to my client. They couldn’t understand why it was so difficult to evict her. I kept explaining that this is Chicago, not skokie, or waukegan or markham, and in Chicago, being a landlord is a completely different ballgame..
OK enough war stories, you get the point.
“#Wicker on January 28th, 2011 at 8:15 am
HD – I have an accidental landlord story for you. A friend has a place in Connecticut, a cottage. Wasn’t using it as much as before when he was taking the kids up there often so decided to rent it out until this spring then try listing it.
A young couple with a kid move in. They decide to heat the house not with oil, but rather with just the small wood burning stove. This in turns freezes the pipes, and bursts them. Destroyed ceilings, dryway etc – and now they won’t leave and have started to make statements like “I don’t think it is healthy for my child to be in this house”.
Cue lawyers.”
HD,Wicker, the Section 8 program has done more to blight our best city neighborhoods than the interstates and 50s-era FHA redlining put together.
All Section 8 really is, is a welfare program not only for bad tenants but for slumlords who don’t want to maintain their buildings to market standards but want to collect market rents. The fool you speak of who rented her beautiful condo out to voucher tenants to get top rent deserves the steep loss she ended up taking.
Rand Paul has proposed we sunset HUD and the FHA, and all the programs they sponsor, from housing projects and rental vouchers for the ‘poor’ to the vast array of buyer incentives and buyer “affordability” programs, including FHA loans, assistance and guarantees for Fannie, Freddie, and Ginnie; down payment assistance programs, any mortgage assistance programs, and even that Sacred Cow, the mortgage interest tax deductions. All these programs do is incentivize bad behavior of one sort of the other, such as running your rentals like a slum, and debt formation and house price inflation. The sooner we end all this, the healthier and better supported the housing market will be.
Hopefully nobody took your advice yesterday. But one day does not a market make, right?
gesco: “TB, if I were you I would pull your money out of precious metals. Consider yourself lucky you made the return that you did in them.”
Section 8 has evolved from paying rent to helping people pay their mortgages too. I’m not kidding. A few months ago fellow associate attorney storms into my office all flustered and said “Did you know that CHAC helps Section 8 tenants pay their mortgage?”
I said, “I did not know that. You seem upset, what’s the matter?”
She said, “This doesn’t seem right. Every month CHAC (the section 8 authority) sends a check to XXXXXXXXXX’s bank to pay her mortgage and all she has to pay is $XXX per month. I can see helping people with rent but mortgage? I’m an attorney and I don’t even own a condo but this person gets a free house and a free mortgage payment?”
True story:
I once had someone call me to ask about adoption. I said who do you want to adopt and why? And this middle aged women (who had full employment with benefits btw) said to me that she wanted to adopt a niece ‘on paper’ so that she could keep her section 8 voucher for a three bedroom. If she had to reapply with one less person under 18 she would lose her 3 bedroom voucher and be stuck with a 2 bedroom and would have to move out of her newly renovated 3 bedroom apartment in the west loop. True story.
I’d be concerned about the low assessments – and the reserves – 200 a month doesn’t seem sufficient to build up for major expenses like tuckpointing or reroofing, I’m guessing they do lots of specials or put off major maintanence.
I lived across the alley from this until about five years ago and paid 750 for a nearly identical unit – it was converted into a 2 BR and they were asked 240 for it. The neighborhood, however, has gone downhill over the past five years, which is why I bailed.
nd –
Thank you for your post. I am curious. Can you please provide more information on why you thought the neighborhood has gone downhill? I had the same feeling when I was looking around there although it was my first time in that area. There was nothing specific I could place my finger on. And I felt like maybe I was being too critical because there are some great things around like the pretty surrounding vintage buildings. And that Dominick’s is so large and so convenient.
dahliachi –
I have a question for you too. How did you manage to get $1,100 rents for smaller apartments a few blocks north of here? How did you find your tenants? Through a broker?
I did a quick scan of Craigslist and I am seeing 1 BRs for $700 – 900 and 2 BRs for around $1200.
Thanks!
I’m surprised at that rent too – friends of mine live a couple of blocks from here and pay 1100 or 1200 for a huge two-bedroom, not quite as nice, but bright and big. When initially moved I paid under 1000 for a good size two bedroom not two blocks away from here.
Milkster – the little shopping strip on Thorndale was fully occupied when I moved there in 2000, but now there are several vacant stores and revolving stores in a few other spaces. Gang activity has gone up – my friends tell me whenever they get off at the Thorndale stop that there are more and more people loitering at all hours around the station and there is more aggression (I noticed hostility go up after Katrina, among the HS students in particular), particularly as the economy has headed downhill, towards pedestrians, etc. The final straw was a shooting in the alley in a drug deal gone bad – the cops busted the driver who had totaled a brick garage with “his brother’s” Range Rover (Jersey plates, driven by Nigerian) – went through THREE brick walls (so much for old construction being better). The cops found 500k worth of smack in the car (ok, maybe it was 50k)…
All of this despite condo conversions, some very nice new businesses (Broadway Cellars, etc), solid long term businesses (Dominicks, Moodys, etc) and supposedly wealthier new residents moving in. My former neighbors and friends in the area weren’t very happy about the changes and I felt bad leaving, but prices were still too high when I left and I bought for far less in a much better area (there were other decisions involved with that, but I got a better deal on a unique place elsewhere, which has been worth the other trade offs) – the biggest problem so far is the neighbors dumping their pet waste in our dumpster.
I also wasn’t very pleased with the general ward leadership, the alderman or her successor, Harry Osterman (last transit crises I could find precious little he was doing to avert the doomsday – he didn’t even have a website!!).
Sorry, I made it sound truly awful, its an area with charm and there are a lot of very nice long term residents and some nice new residents – my decision to leave was also a pull, not just a push. But I don’t regret it. That said, it’s still pleasant, convenient (especially transit and groceries, near A-ville without the parking hassle, etc) area with good vintage housing stock (west of Broadway primarily, not so nice east, but still some nice buildings there are well, just much higher density). If you can snap up an unrehabbed (i.e. recent gut rehab) vintage unit for a good price in a well run building, I’d do it – one of my friends bought in the late 80’s and the building is lovely and the unit stunning with unpainted woodwork, working fireplace, etc. The two biggest amenities, transit and the lake, will not be going away anytime soon (and long term, the el may become an even bigger asset with higher speeds…maybe).
ND – nothing wrong with being a realist about the area one lives in. I love my nabe, but there is absolutely nothing distinguishing about it. Except for when the Latin Kings decide to go on a graffiti spree in the alleyway.
I just wanted to be balanced – there’s good and bad there. You can be fair and realistic.
I completely rehabbed a small 3 flat two years ago. So it has central heat/ac, in-unit laundry, travertine baths, well-designed kitchens with slightly upgraded stainless appliances. Custom millwork, refinished hardwood, some built-in shelving, three season back room, yard.
I realize that average one bedrooms in Edgewater go for $850 a month, but I have only had to rely on Apartment Finders in the middle of winter. I’ve been able to get them rented fairly easily using Craigslist.
My larger point about real estate is that really beautiful, well-designed places, both rental and for sale, can and do command higher prices. It’s about more than room counts and square footage
Milkster on January 28th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
dahliachi –
I have a question for you too. How did you manage to get $1,100 rents for smaller apartments a few blocks north of here? How did you find your tenants? Through a broker?
I did a quick scan of Craigslist and I am seeing 1 BRs for $700 – 900 and 2 BRs for around $1200.
Ohmygod, Section 8 is helping people pay their MORTGAGES????!!!!!
Do you ever feel like you’re one of the dozen or so people left in the USA who isn’t getting some kind of subsidy or welfare?
Here I sit, paying rent with no assistance, couldn’t even get unemployment the one time I really needed it (independent contractor), have no kids…. and I am helping this woman you speak of to pay her mortgage through Section 8.
Could you verify this was actually happening?
“All Section 8 really is, is a welfare program not only for bad tenants but for slumlords who don’t want to maintain their buildings to market standards but want to collect market rents.”
Not necessarily true. In most neighborhoods and buildings, Section 8/CHA will not subsidize. Unless the unit is part of an existing CHA/FHA approved building (this is common in Uptown, if you want to talk north-side lakefront) in a long-term contract, Section 8 typically will not subsidize within a regular, full market-rate building that isn’t seeking a subsidized housing contract. This is why Uptown is so slow to grow: long term CHA/FHA contracts have locked them in (and if/when they expire, then goes the “affordable housing!” debates and cries, so they begrudgingly renew them).
If you want an ELV example of such contracts, the Rienzi Plaza (now Lincoln Park Apartments, I think?) on Diversey is notorious for advertising market rents to market-rate renters while maintaining a hefty percentage of Section 8 units. Granted, the SELV/NELP types have switched toward senior citizens, but it exists.
~~~~
“I realize that average one bedrooms in Edgewater go for $850 a month, but I have only had to rely on Apartment Finders in the middle of winter. I’ve been able to get them rented fairly easily using Craigslist.
My larger point about real estate is that really beautiful, well-designed places, both rental and for sale, can and do command higher prices. It’s about more than room counts and square footage”
I’d be curious to see interior photos of your places. This may be my “Come-to-Clio” moment, but if it ain’t in the GZ, the shiny luster can only get someone so far and is, in the long term, creating unsustainable rents in line with the market.
Over-investment can kill the rental market. Some ELP/ELV big management companies have tried the razzle-dazzle reno method and the rents they ask are ri.di.cu.lous and are seeing mega vacancies. People will often “deal with” lesser finishes in more established areas for a longer term than dressed-to-the-nines in a less desirable one. But that’s just my two cents.
Hi boiz
Post your e- mail and I’ll send you a link to pictures.
I think you make some good points about overimprovement, but my units appeal to people who want or need to live a little further north, grad students and staff at Loyola and Northwestern (which has a shuttle bus) for example. Also 1100 is not so much for a couple who are employed.