Bank Owned Vintage Penthouse With Roof Top Terrace Sells: 444 W. Belmont in Lakeview
We have chattered about this penthouse unit at 444 W. Belmont in Lakeview several times since it was first listed in August 2008.
See our November 2010 chatter and pictures here.
Back in 2008, Homedelete predicted it would sell under the 2000 purchase price of $383,000 (even though others vigorously disputed him.)
He was vindicated when it came back on the market last November as a bank owned unit and was listed at $369,000 although at least one of you thought it would actually sell for MORE than what the bank was asking.
The gold star goes to Homedelete, however, as it recently closed for just $311,000.
Built in 1928, the unit had barrel vaulted ceilings and a rooftop terrace measuring 23×29.
Yes, the terrace is private to the unit. Both #7A and #7B share the terrace (you can see the fence splitting the deck into 2 sections in one of the pictures.)
It had central air and an in-unit washer/dryer but no parking.
Was this a deal?
Parker Pearson at Pearson Realty Group had the listing.
Unit #7B: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1800 square feet
- Sold in July 2000 for $383,000
- Was listed in August 2008 for $825,000 (leased parking nearby)
- Reduced several times
- Delisted in April 2009
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed in June 2009
- Was bank owned in November 2010 and listed for $369,000
- Sold in January 2011 for $311,000
- Assessments of $509 a month
- Taxes of $6,378
- Central air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- No parking
- Deck: 23×29
- Bedroom #1: 11×19
- Bedroom #2: 16×12
Price sounds right. This is a HUGE 2 bed 2 bath in a prime location. Love this building.
Thanks for the shoutout Sabrina.
Wow.
yes, this sounds right. there have been many big 2/2 ELV vintage units talked about on here. they are at 2000 nominal prices, imo. maybe they are even lower than that bc this unit really has everything besides parking.
I couldn’t be surprised if two years from now a comparable sells in the mid to high $200’s. In my previous post I said that when we reach the bottom it will sell for less than the 2000 price – and I’ll tell you this: we are still NOT at the bottom.
And for all the people who said to be careful for what I wished for because if real estate were too cheap we’d all be in a lot of hurt. Well guess what, just like I’ve always predicted, real estate is getting cheap, and the world is still turning, unemployment is getting better, the economy has stabilized and is no longer sinking into a global depression.
Actually Clio called it right too: “I think the two biggest negatives about this property are the lack of parking and busy street. If it had one or the other, it would be well priced. Without either one, however, I don’t know if it will sell much above 300k”
Geez, this person got a great deal. I dont see this is having strong rental potential but talk about a nice place to live.
Kudos to the buyer!
I actually went and looked at this after the first chatter. It had some clear warning sign problems: one bedroom had a massive crack and water damage along the western wall of the south bedroom and 1/2 bath, and while it said “tuckpointed recently” it most assuredly was not a full job. There was a lot of shoddy brickwork toward the north end of the western wall.
Realtor was also NOT 100% positive on the rooftop being private or not, so that — coupled with the passing ignorance on the damage/tuckpoint — wasn’t very encouraging.
So sure, it’s a deal — if you can deal with a potential special assessment nightmare.
Thanks miumiu for the recognition!!! I greatly appreciate it!!
“I couldn’t be surprised if two years from now a comparable sells in the mid to high $200’s. In my previous post I said that when we reach the bottom it will sell for less than the 2000 price – and I’ll tell you this: we are still NOT at the bottom”
And you are saying that based on what? Please do offer a sound reasoning.
Like it is generally the case here, there is something incredibly wrong about making such opinionated comments on pricing with complete disregard to other crucial details about the condition of the building, the HOA, etc.
The reasons that drive a primary residence buyer are much broader than the listing price you see on a sheet. People place different values to different things according to their own needs, tastes and likes. Some people are ok to pay the premium for say a well built modern home by Ranquist. For a serious buyer, the stability of the building they are buying, the health of the HOA may justify in their eyes a certain premium, and a price that most people may consider “above” market.
There is no statistic that can reflext these variant elements. This incessant obsession about focusing solely on the speculative aspect of real estate is very wrong and a lot of times misleading.
If you can afford it, if you need it, and if you love it, then buy it. The rest is irrelevant.
@AndrewT, you have some valid points but you are on extreme too. I have noticed most people on CC are extremist. Definitely a home buyer cares about features and one’s love of a property makes a big difference in amount one is willing to spend on it. But homes are in general expensive buys (for most people), they are not shoes. I buy a shoe for $800 because I love it and yes maybe wear it twice in a year. But given my income level, I won’t purchase a $500 property just because I love it. I also think about its resale value. My husband and I have jobs that are pretty much secure so we don’t have to worry about what if I lose my job. Loads of people have to consider that too. So while HD is an extreme predictor of doom and gloom, and Clio is very optimistic (partially because he can absorb more risk than most of us), majority of buyers make decision rationally, albeit with “bounded” rationality.
And you are saying that based on what? Please do offer a sound reasoning.:
1) DQ mortgages 30 days + late in the millions that will eventually become foreclosures (estimated to be 2x as many as currently in foreclosure)
2) Delayed time line to process current foreclosures
3) elevated long term unemployment
4) option arms set to recast
5) future foreclosure
6) low sales volume only slightly higher than the lows set in 2008 and 2009 (see G’s previous posts)
7) lack of 100%, Neg Am, low down payment loans
8) requirement of 20% down for convential financing
9) disappearance of the proverbial ‘move up buyer’
10) those who find jobs after layoffs usually work for less income
11) elevated debt levels i.e. credit cards and student loans for the younger generation who is now about to buy homes
12) changing demographics as gen x/y is smaller than boomers who dno’t want their parent’s housing
13) changing attitudes of x/y gen who don’t want to own at record levels like their parents did
14) the fact of student loans per month automatically reduces how much gen x/y can spend on housing. a $500 a month student loan payment translates roughly to $100,000 less house than without the student loan; $250 payment is $50,000 at today’s interest rates.
The list goes on and on and on. Encouraging people to buy if “you can afford it, if you need it, and if you love it, then buy it. The rest is irrelevant” is like encouraging someone to commit financial suicide. It’s absurd
miumiu, absolutely great point. You are 100% right. Maybe I felt compelled to exaggerate a bit to counter another extreme point. I suppose, I was doing well until the last paragraph 🙂
Did you know by the way that Miuccia Prada is a communist? 🙂 I’m assuming of course that your handle is inspired by her brand. I might be wrong.
So, does that make your handle, shall we say abit, “extremist”. 🙂
Thats a nice looking place, I hope the new owner enjoys it. It goes to show that you can offer whatever you want no matter what the listing price. This listing also goes with the theory that 15% below ask might be the bottom.
lol…AndrewT you are so smart! I guess I am busted. To be honest I am a bit of gauche caviar myself ; )
for anyone who cares a motion just came across my desk to kick a homeowner out of their north side condo sometime in march 2011 The case is a 2008 case. The owner hasn’t made a payment since late 2007. This is not an unusual or out of the ordinary case. Think about that for a second – some foreclosures like the instant property go fast (early 2009 default to late 2010 repossession) and some go slow (usually countrywide, wamu) late 2007 default, early 2011 repossession. Think of the thousands of properties on the sidelines in Chicago of wamu, countrywide, indymac subprime or alt-a loans that have defaulted in the past few years and have NOT yet put been on to the market. amazing, absolutely amazing.
HD,
All of your points reflect the status quo we have been living in, for a while now. There is no scientific basis to your methodology or reasoning. You are not saying anything new. There is no, new data among your points that suggests a substantial detorioration of the current pricing climate. Maybe number 1, but banks have been very inconsistant in the way they have been handling these issues, and you also have to look at where you are pulling this data from. Are you looking at national statistics-irrelevant! Are you looking at local statistics? Which ones? Subusrbs, city? Which neighborhoods? Which block? So, not to say that further depreciation won’t happen, but you have to be much less generic in your analysis. The downward pressure on prices in established neighborhoods is really minimal, and is more contextual, i.e. most sellers in established neighborhoods are “strong” sellers, and therefore can ride through the market with no problem.
I know my last paragraph was a bit of an extreme comment as I was trying to make a point, but in its litteral sense, there is nothing wrong with it-because I have put “afford” in there, to give the context to my point. But I am going to refer you to what miumiu said right above. She said it so well.
Haha! No worries miumiu. I like caviar, and I can get along with gauche just fine, so it’s all good. 🙂
Most people who wear Prada, MiuMiu, Jil Sander, tend to be liberals anyway…
I’m suprised the assesments on this building aren’t higher, I guess they have been delaying doing work on the building based on previous posts
Great. I am glad I did not scare you off AndrewT : )
miumiu: Never! 🙂
don’t throw out your shoulder patting yourself on the back, homedelete
Route 77 Belmont, etc., etc.
Has anyone else noticed that “RE always goes up” is being replaced with “who cares if it goes up”? Seems rather feeble in comparison. No wonder sales are down.
homedelete, you have touched on one of the many very scary aspects of condo ownership, which is the potential liability for remaining paying owners when their buildings suffer multiple defaults and foreclosures, leaving tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in accumulated unpaid assessments behind. It could be the larger number in these really massive South Loop or Near North highrises. The remaining payers are stuck with the bills and that means many people are getting stuck with MUCH higher assessments than they had any reason to believe they would when they bought, and that might result in MORE defaults, a very scary prospect.
This scares the hell out of me. In the middle of the Great Rampage, I thought that, yeah, there could be some defaults and there was a lot of bad lending, but I never grasped the breadth and depth of it and I never imagined so many condo buildings would be destabilized by defaults. I thought there was strength in size, that big buildings could withstand a foreclosure or two, but I never imagined so many in one building.
These people you write of have surely not been paying assessments since they defaulted, so their buildings have really suffered.
And Cook County alone has 28,000 foreclosed homes and condos, that are actually already REO. Only 1200 or so, about 3.5%, are visible on the market, according to http://www.housingstory.net. I recently read somewhere else that there were 45,000 foreclosures filed within the past two years, and yet we still have people who have been squatting since 2007 or so.
Additionally, the FHA has been writing HORRIBLE loans for the past two years, including ARM loans so that people who make $30K a year can buy $199K four room rehabs in ratty old Rogers Park buildings. I know, I fell into an open house for a new rehab last summer, and was offered a ARM, with 3.5% down. Vintage 2008 and 2009 FHA loans are defaulting at alarming rates, around 20%, so I expect we will have to do another bailout in not long.
AndrewT is grasping at straws. Many of HDs points, while not new information, are clear indicators that RE valuations are going to continue to decline. AndrewT must be under the mistaken impression that the RE market immediately adjusts to new information and there is no stickiness, particularly as it pertains to declines.
Either that, or AndrewT is blatantly misrepresenting reality as he likely has a vested interest in shaping perceptions of RE valuations.
It’s not seeing the bigger picture. I’m in the trenches, everyday, and at the of the day, real estate affects probably 75% of what I practice. Whether its foreclosures, sell/buy contracts, advising debtors about their underwater homes, plenty of RE litigation (partitions, TILA cases, quiet titles) I’m knee deep in real estate. Everyone around me in this profession, as knee deep as I am, in the trenches, we’re all making the same case. I’m just the only lawyer of a handful of lawyers involved in RE that post here. but for every poster there are probably 100 or more lurkers if general internet rules hold true on this board as they do on others.
“Additionally, the FHA has been writing HORRIBLE loans for the past two years, including ARM loans so that people who make $30K a year can buy $199K four room rehabs in ratty old Rogers Park buildings. ”
Please explain to me how those numbers work? How does someone who makes $30K a year can afford a $299K home with only %3.5 down payment?
Granted, there is a lot to criticize FHA for, but let’s not let things get out of hand, by making silly comments like this. There are people who are familiar with numbers here.
As to your first paragraph, isn’t this along the lines of what most people are preaching for here? e.g. suggesting to buy all these distressed properties at these amazingly low prices, and without thinking about the possible ramifications of scenarios like these? God forbid, if you end up paying a more than justified slight premium for a stable building, than you are as stupid as they come, when all these distressed assets are laying there for so cheap.
Well, You always get what you pay for in life. If you pay cheap, you get cheap in return.
As a wise man once said: “I can not afford to to buy cheap”
“Well, You always get what you pay for in life. If you pay cheap, you get cheap in return.”
My buddy is a realtor and this is his FB update today:
“Just sold a 2-flat in Chicago for $3,000!!!”
“I sold another one a couple months ago for $3,500. They’re both burnouts, but I don’t foresee property values going any lower than that. However, I did find out that about 50 to 60% of the closings in today’s market are short-sales followed by foreclosures, and arms-length (which is a traditional transaction where neither party is under duress to sell) transactions fall to a distant 3rd.”
Also tardface, I fail to see how getting a unit in a nice building in a distressed sale that isn’t trashed isn’t very similar to getting a non-distressed unit in same building except at arms-length, non-distressed (premium) pricing. Your advice is laughable.
Bob,
Please read and try to understand what I have written first before you formulate your pre-conceived response to who you think I might be or might not be.
Try to be specific: where am I blatantly misleading? Where do you see a generic response of mine along the lines of “RE has bottomed” I have offered a rather nuanced and balanced analysis, which did not reject the notion of further possible depreciation but at the same time tried to offer some perspective in regards to more established neighborhoods.
You guys are also looking at this from a very narrow sided perspective. You are forgetting that there are a lot of chunk buyers out there! They are buying buildings, converting them into rentals, etc.
Call me crazy but asking someone where they get their source from or what the foundation of their analysis is, last time I checked these were things that should be included in a decent analysis anyway, especially, it should be a habit for an attorney to do so.
People who are ignorant always resort to conspiracy theories instead of arguing on the merits of a given debate. Who cares if I have a vested interest or not? I am one individual, and can not change the dynamics of an entire economy, by engaging in a debate on a local blog!
Your response above is sufficient for me. It speaks for itself. I rest my case.
Laura-“homedelete, you have touched on one of the many very scary aspects of condo ownership, which is the potential liability for remaining paying owners when their buildings suffer multiple defaults and foreclosures, leaving tens and maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars in accumulated unpaid assessments behind. It could be the larger number in these really massive South Loop or Near North highrises. The remaining payers are stuck with the bills and that means many people are getting stuck with MUCH higher assessments than they had any reason to believe they would when they bought, and that might result in MORE defaults, a very scary prospect.”
My building has had a few foreclosures and we monitor the property for lis pendens. Even those who are in foreclosure are paying assessments because, under IL law, the association can take possesion of the unit and rent it out to cover assessments. We are doing that in one case. We usually get any unpaid assessments at close and if not we move quickly to get possession and rent out the unit. To date, we have only $15K in bad debt in a 200+ unit building. This is less than .5% of our budget. No special is needed to cover this. There is strength in number…
@Bob
“Furthermore, it IS incredibly important to know the person who is posting so you know how much/or little to listen to them. If you are in the market to buy a SFH in Kenilworth, are you really going to listen to a 24 y/o uneducated intern making 30k/year and renting w/ 4 roommates?”
can we just fast-forward to the end
and one of you just bring up Hitler already…
and the thread will get locked?
It’s happy hour! Let’s all drink and be merry.
Let’s sit together Elephants and Donkeys
Wow, prices have really dropped in the Glen. I lived across the alley from this until about five years ago and paid 750 for a nearly identical unit – it was converted into a 2 BR and they were asked 240 for it. I think the assessments are ridiculously low – they must do specials for tuckpointing, roof, etc – for the age of the building. The neighborhood, however, has dramatically deteriorated over the past five years, which is why I bailed.
To your good health Chichow! I think most of us are neither Elephants or Donkeys but rather agree or disagree with some positions of both sides. I for one cannot identify with any of them entirely.
Bob,
I don’t have time to waste with bitter people who are talking about $3000 properties. Your above comment is a perfect illustration that you have not read or understood a single word of what I have said. Because, if you did, you’d understand that I am as conservative as they come when it comes to buying real estate. And that’s why I constantly talk about primary residence buyers, I talk about context, I try to talk about things which decent and reasonable primary home buyers could relate to. Basically things that are certainly not going to resonate much in the world of people who love $3000 worth properties and I perfectly understand that.
But, what I don’t do, is I don’t speculate cluelessly.
“But, what I don’t do, is I don’t speculate cluelessly.”
What do you call those claims of growing population and running out of land that you made on Monday?
Oh yah, there was that bit about rates being a point lower last May than today, too.
It’s calling wishful thinking.
“But, what I don’t do, is I don’t speculate cluelessly.
#
G on January 27th, 2011 at 5:28 pm
“But, what I don’t do, is I don’t speculate cluelessly.”
What do you call those claims of growing population and running out of land that you made on Monday?”
HD, can your job possibly bios your sample? Of course there are a lot of distressed properties out there; think 10 E. Ontario, but there are some solid good places out there too. I do believe that the overall foreclosure situation will impact all market but I think the impact will be very different depending on which building/neighborhood one buys in. I have been looking for a while for 2/2 in SL and down town area and good buildings seem to have hold up values much better.
If one wants good views, interiors, a stable building and all, waiting for immense price break might turn out to be waiting for Godot. I am with AndrewT on I cannot afford to buy too cheap. Sure one can get a great deal in 10 E Ontario, but do I want to live there? No way.
Andrew T, the FHA makes these absurd numbers ($200K apt for someone making $30K a year with 3.5% down) “work” by writing ARM loans.
I can show you one that was published online, for a FHA ARM that was moreover a CASH OUT REFI for $190K for someone whose debt service was 39% of his income.
Last year, I stumbled over an open house for a new rehab in E. Rogers Park, in the 1600 block of W. Columbia, way too close to Clark St. It was not one of the beautiful old courtyards, but a small, fugly old courtyard building with no architectural distinction and a run-down look to it. The tiny 750 sq ft units were rehabbed into 2 bed 2 bath units with tiny living rooms and nice kitchens.
What gives, thought I, for just a few blocks away in any direction are rehabs done a couple of years ago in beautiful buildings, bigger units with much nicer features, dropping down into the $150K range or even lower, as low as $49K for a 5 room 2 bed with all the trimmings in a building STUFFED with defaults, as this place on Columbia soon will be.
So I scoped it out. The agent showed me how I could “buy” this little place with just 3.5% down and payments of $697 a month. How is that possible, I asked, and remarked that the units were sort of pricey relative to the local market.
“Don’t worry about the price, just worry about the payment,” he said. The loan was, of course, an ARM with reset after three years. I said, what if this thing drops in value to the point where the loan is more than 125% of CMV? Will it recast? He could not answer me, of course, but assured me I could just refinance. HUH? And if I’m lucky enough to make it to the reset point, what will my balloon payment be and what will the payments reset to? How much principal and interest would I be deferring? He could not answer that.
THAT is why we are in for the mother of bailouts for FHA. FHA is the subprime lender these days. In 2009, you were permitted to “monetize” the $8000 first time buyer credit and use it for a downpayment for a place costing up to $262,000, which of course someone making $50K could “afford” the low, low payments on with the FHA ARM.
This is what has been helping to keep lower and mid level prices somewhat levitated. Notice that FHA originates about 50% of new loans these days and consider the dismal history of 2008 and 2009 vintage FHA loans. I am really with Rand Paul on fading HUD and FHA, which have been instrumental in creating the bubble and the mountain of bad loans we have out there. They’re aren’t helping lower and middle income people “own” houses- they are helping to financially destroy our lower middle and middle classes. The only people they are helping is housing developers and bad mortgage brokers.
“I am with AndrewT on I cannot afford to buy too cheap.”
Buy today in the SL and your problem is solved.
Well FHA became a whole lot more expensive month to month post october, but if you dont plan on living in a property for long and truly believe you are getting a great value, I think its the way to go.
Especially if you are looking at 3-4 unit buildings, but then the building has to be selfsufficient, which can make only 3.5% down rough… unless you really found a great deal.
Really G? All the units I like are over $500K. Please show me some listings there with skyline and lake views and nice interiors. I will be very grateful to you.
I’m referring to the almost doubling of the cost of PMI with FHA if you are more than 80% LTV
AndrewT, miumiu, gesco – thanks for fighting the good fight against the evil, negative and immature forces that seem to constantly prevail on this site!!!
Buy today to insure you won’t get it for too cheap tomorrow. Problem solved. Besides, haven’t you heard the paradigm has changed to “buy now and who cares about tomorrow if you can afford it today.”
lol…Clio I don’t think anyone is evil. Also in general I don’t like that term as it has been used for centuries to justify tyranny of religion which I am not a fan at all.
I have benefitted a lot from everyone’s input here, but given that I am out there and really trying to buy, I have noticed some of these comments are unrealistic and are more rhetoric than reality. We just gave an offer for a $535K property and the seller is not coming down from $520K which is incidentally what they paid in 2009 themselves for the property. So I wonder where is all the price reductions everyone is raving about.
“Buy today in the SL and your problem is solved.”
Ahhh the old Sloop…the magical land where the streets are paved with the gold of RE riches and where 100k penthouses reign.
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/212-E-Cullerton-St-60616/unit-8/home/21835682
“So I wonder where is all the price reductions everyone is raving about.”
You fell for _a particular unit_. When we talk about price reductions we are talking about _the market as an aggregate_.
If you want the cut rate pricing you’re going to have to deal with the reduced inventory of units available at said pricing. Often not in pristine condition.
Sounds like you want a property that fits your other criteria first and foremost over pricing. No (or few) deals for you.
“where 100k penthouses reign”
1. Highest and best use of a small 1/1 “PH” is sell it to a neighbor.
2. Includes parking, so it would only cost said neighbor about $75k, net, to secure the extra space.
3. One of the others is here: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/212-E-Cullerton-St-60616/unit-1307/home/28935315 for $134k PLUS $30k for parking.
4. 13th floor penthouse? Who thought that would end well?
“13th floor penthouse? Who thought that would end well?”
I’m not a fan of the floorplan, but am a fan of modern & at some pricepoint I’m willing to give on that. I liked these in late 2007 (they were around 260k w/parking back then), luckily was unable to buy back then.
But back then I didn’t realize how much I like my current neighborhood vs. the Sloop. Neighborhood isn’t an amenity I’m willing to budge on (unless very comparable neighborhood) or ability to walk to work in loop. This has neither.
Ok. The land is getting bigger, and the population is shrinking.
I must be living in Jupiter or something.
“If you want the cut rate pricing you’re going to have to deal with the reduced inventory of units available at said pricing. Often not in pristine condition. ”
THIS is what I am talking about – MOST buyers are NOT going to like the foreclosure/shortsale/cheap houses – they are going to like what fits their criteria – and many of these “looming foreclosures” don’t fit their need – so I think the effect that this shadow inventory has on the general market is questionable….
Oh Bob…you wrote this here on CC, not too long ago about Unit #3205 in MPE.
“Bob on December 30th, 2010 at 8:19 am
I don’t think this owner realizes that this thing isn’t worth just a slight haircut from the pre-con pricing. 750k is not going to move this–try 625k.”
So your example of an ugly, no view, bad building 1/1 comp proves nothing. You can find such a comp in any hood. I think I am going to ennoble you to marquis de passavant….haha
“The land is getting bigger”
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/09/economist-expanding-household-size.html
“I must be living in Jupiter”
Close.
“Neighborhood isn’t an amenity I’m willing to budge on (unless very comparable neighborhood) or ability to walk to work in loop. This has neither.”
Soooo, McK Park is out for Bobbo?
“and the population is shrinking. ”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Chicago
-1.5% population in Chicago proper over 2000-2008 timeframe, a loss of 43,000 people.
Planet dumbo, I’d say.
“Soooo, McK Park is out for Bobbo?”
Was never McKP for Bobbo. Some nice houses in Bridgeport but structural issues w/them combined with Chicago traffic makes it too long of a commute to Bobbo’s favorite hangouts. Would be totally doable of a commute in smaller cities. Traffic here. Sucks.
“Sounds like you want a property that fits your other criteria first and foremost over pricing. No (or few) deals for you.”
Yes, Mon Marquis this is what I have been saying all along. I want a place I enjoy. I am not looking to buy a little investment property in some sad building.
miumiu,
those sellers would be absolutely foolish not to accept your offer. Did they do a counter offer?
“and many of these “looming foreclosures” don’t fit their need – so I think the effect that this shadow inventory has on the general market is questionable…”
Think all you like, but foreclosures will continue to impact the entire market.
“Think all you like, but foreclosures will continue to impact the entire market.”
G- you have to back up your statements with some reasoning.
I see this everyday. People are beginning to realize that foreclosures in OakBrook, Hinsdale, Kenilworth, etc. are not forthcoming and the few that are out there don’t meet the needs of many many many buyers (just look at miumiu, for example). This is much more prevalent in the upper end market where buyers are unwilling to compromise.
miumiu, just up your offer, then, if money is not a concern. You will see lower prices in OMP but, remember, “who cares”?
@Clio, they said that they are not negotiating on anything below what they paid.
To be honest I am not too crazy about the place as I had said earlier. I am thinking, maybe it was for the best. I really really like the North facing MPE units and I wonder if I should just be patient and go for what I like. My husband is pissed with the sellers and now thinks maybe we should just wait it out a bit and go for what we like more later. Also his parents might give us some cash that will facilitate the transaction for north facing units. My main qualm about those is that I find them over priced and think they should be in low 600K.
miumiu, i think you mentioned that there were north facing units for sale right now – why not put in a low ball offer on one of them. You never know – if you catch the seller at the right moment – you would be very surprised. You really can’t lose.
“you have to back up your statements with some reasoning”
1. distress sales have impacted the entire market to date.
2. many more on the way
3. They will continue to impact the market.
“People are beginning to realize.”
What’s your reasoning? I see, it’s more of that “about to go under contract” talk. Only lower prices will do that today.
“To be honest I am not too crazy about the place as I had said earlier.”
One would hope those about to plunk down over half a million bucks on a place should be madly in love with it. Then again I’m not in that segment so maybe money is just immaterial? Sounds like you’ve got an itch to buy if you’re willing to put in an offer on a place for over half a million dollars.
The good news for you is the longer you can keep your itch at bay the deals will probably get better.*
*for turnkey properties that meet your many criteria who knows.
I’ve long acknowledged that properties that meet all criteria (ie: turnkey, location, modern amenities) seem to be doing much better than those with some sort of deficiency. Heck clio claims to have previously made some good coin at capitalizing on this premium (Boston area).
@Clio, we asked our agent whom I like and trust and she said they are not willing to come down right now as they have not accepted other low offers. I wonder if the tide will turn by summer when tones of properties hit the market and sellers realize that there is no immediate recovery in horizon. That being said I feel bad for people who bought at $800K and now have to sell at $600s.
Great Bob so we are in agreement. I never thought I would say that : )
Well, may wonders never cease.
“That being said I feel bad for people who bought at $800K and now have to sell at $600s.”
Do you also feel bad if you buy stocks that are off of their all-time highs?
Lots of people made bad investment decisions in RE. Perhaps the joy they received from living there makes it worth while, but from a purely financial perspective, it was a mistake, and you shouldn’t feel too bad for them–especially in the realm of $800k 2/2 condos, as anyone buying those either (a) could at least kind of afford the loss, or (b) really had no business stretching that far.
@miumiu – some of the units for sale may have been bought by investors who may be willing to do a contract sale, lease/option, or owner financing. These are all great options that could lead to a win-win situation. I have been involved with all three types of deals and have been EXTREMELY happy with the results. However, had the first buyers not come to me and tell me about these options, I would have never considered them.
Logically you are right Anon, but one cannot just turn off ones feelings, you know.
Also I think it could have been anyone. I for one was lucky that I was in school and living in a small student town so even though my parents bought me a condo there, we did not lose money. Timing is an important factor in life if not everything, so I don’t particularly like to get credit for mere luck of the timing.
“Logically you are right Anon, but one cannot just turn off ones feelings, you know.”
I realize that, and that the facelessness of equity trading makes a difference, but the net effect is the same.
Plus, if your prospective seller wasn’t actually living in the place, it really is much more the same, less the face.
clio, take you own advice and skip my posts if they offend your fragility.
I want to think this buyer got a deal, but I suspect a giant pending s.assessment is probably factored into this price. If not, this has to be one of the top deals I have seen on CC yet.
*Another “deal” I remember seeing – Does anyone remember that duplex penthouse from last year in RN (I think?) with the ultra-sophisticated design that looked like it should be in NY? I think it was in a lower tier building, and was selling for 1-2 mil. I can’t find that post anywhere. It had a curved wooden floating staircase. Does anyone remember it?
Was that the one with stainless steel cabinets? If so, I think it was in the West Loop.
On a totally different note, does anyone know anything about co-op to condo conversions?
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/5000-S-East-End-Ave-60615/unit-5B/home/21826532
The building in the link says there is a $76,000 special assessment for the conversion (to pay off the coop mortgage?).
I think I saw the unit in 2004 when it was listed for $150,000. Nice with vintage details but the assessment was a total deal breaker.
Yes, that is to pay off the co-op mortgage. I helped a friend buy into a similar conversion at 54th/Woodlawn about 20 years ago. The amt was only $12k on a $45k unit and the seller did not notice in the contract that she was to pay it. Boy, was she po’d when she realized too late. She was a realtor.
G: Is it just me or are there similarities in the phrasings of miumiu, AndrewT and a Mad Max of a poster who “may be mad, may be bad, but he’s not crraaazzzyy”. At 2:19 miumiu (hereafter “M”)recalled MM predicted this property would sell for less than $300K and 5 min later MM thanked M for the recognition. Later it is MM @ 6:22 and M at 6:23, Then M at 6:30; MM at 6:31. M at 6:51; MM at 6:53. If you can’t convince others with logical arguments why not create some allies who post to agree with you?
Get a life southbound, Sabrina already told you we are not the same people, She has the email addresses we registered with and might be even able to see where we login from.
BTW, because X, Y, and Z make fun of Clio does that make them the same person as well? Or it is just anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint is classified in the conspiracy theory of yours in the same team.
obsession and paranoia make a very bad/sad/pathetic combination…..
oh wait – maybe I should post as AndrewT now……
lol…tell me about. BTW, maybe southbound is G who has realized he is being ignored and trying to get attention…hehe…kidding of course
Even if we were the same people does it really matter? It is not like we are taking a vote here. It is about the contents of ones posts. I can tell the same thing under 20 aliases if it is BS it is BS, right?
You know what is best, is that I am not a native English speaker so I bet if any of these people were even a bit sophisticated could tell that I am not and that will distinguish me from you guys. In my job, we get tones of anonymous reviews and often times from their writing I can tell their nationality. There are certain grammatical mistakes that gives away your language. Even choice of vocabulary sometimes gives away the nationality of the reviewer.
“chicagobull on January 27th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
I want to think this buyer got a deal, but I suspect a giant pending s.assessment is probably factored into this price.”
Most assuredly. I saw that brickwork. And with the City out to “generate revenues” or “invest in historical heritage architecture” or whatever newspeak you can think of, I think you’re looking at a 400K+ tuckpointing job, easily. Even if you do ride under the City’s “Target the North Side!” radar, you’re top and get affected? Good luck asking everyone else to go all-in on a big repair.
The deal is awesome, but there will be major costs within five years, I predict.
MM I don’t dispute you registered w/different email addresses.
On a larger note I am miserable because I was unable to attend a memorial service today for one of the greatest guys I have ever had the pleasure of meeting & doing business with who died much too young. We should all aspire to be memorialized as someone who “had down-to-earth manners in real-estate… “You always knew where you stood with him,”..”It’s a breath of fresh air in our business.” RIP.
Just remember – “dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.” Make it count.
@ a local
Maybe. I don’t remember the kitchen. It was a highrise, so I don’t think it was the west loop. I just remember the two story living room and staircase. The design was way, way beyond a typical Chicago condo.
Maybe I dreamed it…
I think my comments have been maybe one of four in this entire thread actually discussing this place?
Ugh, so tangential.
“*Another “deal” I remember seeing – Does anyone remember that duplex penthouse from last year in RN (I think?) with the ultra-sophisticated design that looked like it should be in NY? I think it was in a lower tier building, and was selling for 1-2 mil. I can’t find that post anywhere. It had a curved wooden floating staircase. Does anyone remember it?”
Do you mean this short sale duplex penthouse at 435 W. Erie?
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9018
Did it ever sell? I can’t find a record of it selling.
“@Clio, they said that they are not negotiating on anything below what they paid.”
What agent takes this listing? They bought in 2009. Prices have fallen anywhere from 5% to who knows what (20% or more?) since then depending on location.
Unless you renovated the property- you are unlikely to get what you paid for it just 2 years ago.
This is why it will take years for the housing market to finally hit bottom. There are so many unrealistic sellers out there. I’ve been tracking many of the same properties on Crib Chatter for 3 years. They start way too high. Then their loans won’t let them go to the market. So finally, years later, it goes to short sale and, in some cases, foreclosure. Years and years later.
“THIS is what I am talking about – MOST buyers are NOT going to like the foreclosure/shortsale/cheap houses – they are going to like what fits their criteria – and many of these “looming foreclosures” don’t fit their need – so I think the effect that this shadow inventory has on the general market is questionable….”
Nearly every high rise building in the city has had a foreclosure/short sale in it from the Palmolive to the Trump Tower. If you wait awhile, there’s bound to be one in the building you’re interested in as well.
Over 40% of the sales last month in Chicago were distressed sales. Seems to me that these properties are fitting someone’s needs and everyone else isn’t buying property right now.
“Do you mean this short sale duplex penthouse at 435 W. Erie?”
Sabrina, it’s still for sale – me and westloop are fighting for it (actually we just discussed it the other day!!). This is the one place we both can agree is a great place!!! I would buy it as an in-town if it drops to the 600s but westloop said that they won’t take anything under asking (and even then it is iffy). Too bad – this is one I “hope” goes to foreclosure (I know – bad to wish these things on people)….. but…it…it….so….nice….
It’s still for sale? I didn’t even check. I assumed it sold. Lis pendens wasn’t filed that long ago. You’ll probably be waiting another year for it to go to the bank.
“Nearly every high rise building in the city has had a foreclosure/short sale in it from the Palmolive to the Trump Tower. If you wait awhile, there’s bound to be one in the building you’re interested in as well. ”
While this is true – most buyers remain picky and want a particular unit with a particular view, etc. – just look at miumiu – there are foreclosures in the building she is looking at but she doesn’t like those particular units and so won’t compromise (as most people won’t – and they shouldn’t – remember miumiu that this is the place in which you have to live – do NOT compromise just to save a few bucks. I actually know people who have done so (not lying) and have regretted it after a few years.
“What agent takes this listing? They bought in 2009. Prices have fallen anywhere from 5% to who knows what (20% or more?) since then depending on location.
Unless you renovated the property- you are unlikely to get what you paid for it just 2 years ago.”
I agree with you Sabrina and there are no renovations in the unit.
Miumiu, guess mine! 🙂
“Nearly every high rise building in the city has had a foreclosure/short sale in it from the Palmolive to the Trump Tower. If you wait awhile, there’s bound to be one in the building you’re interested in as well. ”
All of us (even Bob) are agreeing on this and definitely there is a chance of finding something I like in short sale or foreclosure; but of course it is not a high chance right now. On the other hand Sabrina is right that the prices are going down in even premium buildings, so I think we are all saying the same thing, just with difference degrees of optimism/pessimism.
The interesting question is whether the odds of finding something I like in short sale/foreclosure will increase as banks eventually put the properties on market. The truth is no one knows for sure. I am neither than rich not to care at all and just buy something I love at risk of losing a lot of money, nor I am someone who is just after profit as I like to enjoy what I buy.
Recall that this is an in town for us, if I truly only cared only about financial asect, one could even question whether I should buy at all. As possibly staying in a hotel even every weekend would be cheaper. However, we enjoy having a place or our own where we have our kitchen, clothe, can invite our friends over and so on. In fact, we already have a 1BR, but love having it so much that we are planning to get something bigger.
I believe a portion of buyers in the market is made of people like me, another portion includes investors, so there is no universal model that fits all at the end of the day.
@AndrewT, your what? sorry I didn’t catch that.
His nationality? Identity?
“Recall that this is an in town for us, if I truly only cared only about financial asect, one could even question whether I should buy at all. As possibly staying in a hotel even every weekend would be cheaper. However, we enjoy having a place or our own where we have our kitchen, clothe, can invite our friends over and so on.”
miumiu – I didn’t realize that this was an in-town for you. As someone with an in-town, I can assure that staying at a hotel will be much cheaper – but I can ALSO assure you that it would be much more inconvenient. The whole purpose for me to get an in-town was to enjoy my life more. Paying a premium to not have to call for reservations, valet my car at different places, lug my luggage and toiletries around, and check out at a certain time was priceless to me. Having my own kitchen for late night snacks and having the flexibility to come and go as I please makes it even better.
Well, I saw what you said above about guessing people’s nationalities/background based on their grammatical errors…
I’m waiting! 🙂
wait a minute, AndrewT, both of us posted at 10:58 – what is southbound going to say about that!!!!
oh I see. I could not guess it. His English looks excellent to me and he punctuates very well. I thought he was a native speaker : ) I have to say I was impressed that AndrewT knew Prada, Miumiu and Jill Sanders belong to the same design house; something I doubt most American straight males who are not in fashion/art business would know. But then there is always someone who surprises you.
“what is southbound going to say about that”
that you had typed on two machines and hit submit simultaneously on both…lol
If you want to find a conspiracy, you find a way to justify it. Also all 3 of us are posting now which means we are the same person as others are sleeping…hehe
oh yeah, now we have 3 computers (miumiu, clio and AndrewT)… wow, we must be rich!!
“Well, I saw what you said above about guessing people’s nationalities/background based on their grammatical errors”
Lots of Chinese speakers, don’t use the correct tense for their verbs. There are languages that don’t have article in them so the speakers, misuse the and a a lot.
I can often tell Italians by their sentence structure as often they start with “I” when an English speaker won’t, say: “I have my flight at 2 pm” rather than saying “My flight is at 2 pm”. Of course if you are very good at English, It is hard for me to tell your are not a native speaker.
Clio, yes indeed! 🙂 Is it rude to ask people here at least their first name? What’s yours Clio?
Miumiu, I am in the business. 🙂 Are you French?
At least one is an iPad, so we are even richer than you think we are!
Miumiu, very interesting. Are you Asian? 🙂
I won’t give info here : ) But you should already know after all we are the same person..hehe…oh and I am posting on MacBook Air. We are rich…lol
BTW, good guess on Asians, they love Miumiu specially the high heals. (I am not saying I am one)
Miumiu was a brand fashioned for Japan.
holy crap – I am on an I-mac – that is so weird that we are all on Macs – we MUST be the same person (btw, AndrewT, obviously my first name is Andrew…. but you knew that).
Well I think most people who care about style, have Macs so not all that surprising. I even have more surprise for you, I am a doctor too (that is what I think you are after all the posts I have read about you).
Well, feel free to e-mail me. I am not that uptight, you know, I can disclose that much: fr1976@gmail.com
I do not want be on record for an absurdity of a notion of buying a Mac product because it’s fashionable or stylish! 🙂 I only care about purpose and functionality.
I am not a doctor, but I am impressed with myself that I can apparently pull it off! 🙂
Night Night ladies! That is if you are ladies! 🙂
oh no, guys, southbound is going to realize that we ARE the same person – after all, our first initials spell out our computer of choice:
M (iumiu)
A (ndrewT)
C (lio)
PS: AndrewT – sorry to disappoint – but I’m a guy.
This whole thread is like one lame frat party. Everyone trying to one up each other and show off in front of their Bros. Not to mention the lack of alcohol and stuck up girls.
That was the place Sabrina. Thanks!
How funny is it that Clio wants eveyone else to buy now, but he wants this property to fall over 20% before he would make an offer on it?
Looks like the doctors aren’t going to save the RE market after all.
It’s down to the Groupon folks, bsd traders, and Citadel folks.
chicagobull: that is funny!
doesn’t homedelete’s observations and Jp3’s (difficult) search in CC area of Park Ridge back up clio’s point?:
“I see this everyday. People are beginning to realize that foreclosures in OakBrook, Hinsdale, Kenilworth, etc. are not forthcoming and the few that are out there don’t meet the needs of many many many buyers (just look at miumiu, for example). This is much more prevalent in the upper end market where buyers are unwilling to compromise.”
“How funny is it that Clio wants eveyone else to buy now, but he wants this property to fall over 20% before he would make an offer on it?”
Chicagobull – I have never stated that I WANT real estate prices to increase – that is just my prediction. Even though I have a lot of real estate – I would love prices to bottom out so I can pick up more property. Remember that there are always great opportunities in both bull and bear markets.