Who’s Going to Buy all the Million Dollar Condos? 403 N. Wabash in River North
This 3-bedroom in Renelle on the River at 403 N. Wabash in River North first came on the market in January 2018.
Renelle on the River is a new construction building with 50 units and garage parking.
Developed by Belgravia, the building has 24-hour door staff and an outdoor terrace with indoor/outdoor kitchens, a yoga room, bike storage, a dog run and an exercise room.
The building is a mid-rise, with 17 floors, that is located between Trump Tower, one of the tallest buildings in the city, and 405 N. Wabash, which is also over 40 stories tall.
This unit is one of the preferred east facing units with views of the Wrigley Building and the River from every window and its 5×14 terrace.
It has a gallery and floor to ceiling windows.
The kitchen has contemporary Snaidero cabinets with Subzero and Wolf appliances along with a large kitchen island with a wine refrigerator.
The unit has central air, washer/dryer in the unit and one garage parking space is included.
It is not one of the duplexed units. All 2517 square feet is on the same floor.
The building is finished so buyers can move right in.
Does move-in-ability give it an edge in a crowded million dollar+ condo market?
Elizabeth Brooks at Belgravia Realty Group has the listing. See the pictures here (sorry, no floor plan with the listing although you might be able to find one on the building’s website).
Unit #7B: 3 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 2517 square feet
- New construction
- Originally listed in January 2018 for $2,241,900
- Raised
- Currently listed at $2,327,900
- Assessments of $1628 a month (includes gas, doorman, exercise room, exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes are “new”
- 1 garage parking space included
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 16×13
- Bedroom #2: 12×11
- Bedroom #3: 12×10
- Living room: 17×13
- Dining room: 15×10
- Family room: 15×13
- Gallery: 4×23
- Foyer: 9×7
- Terrace: 5×14
Is raising the price on a unit that ins’t selling a winning strategy?
that is just ungodly expensive for a boring unit with very little view that will sit in the shadows of the Trump tower for most of the year
It “will sit in the shadows of the Trump tower for most of the year”
They should have called it the Melania…
This looks very “corporate” to me, and I don’t see anything that screams, “this is a $2.3 million condo.” Looking right into other buildings is a big issue for me – If I pay all the money, why would I want to have no view?
“that is just ungodly expensive for a boring unit with very little view that will sit in the shadows of the Trump tower for most of the year”
Don’t a lot of shorter buildings “sit in the shadows” of all the taller buildings all over the downtown though?
They’re not trying to compete with either building on either side. They are both over 40 stories.
My problem with this building is the costs. Midrises with 24/7 doormen are inefficient. This is new construction and the assessment is already $1628 a month. That means you can guarantee at least $2000 a month in just a few years. It costs a LOT for only 50 units to have staffing on that door, and handling packages, around the clock.
““Where will the money come from? Rich people,” CTU Vice President Stacy Davis Gates said Tuesday, as she repeated the union’s call for Illinois to tax its wealthiest residents at higher rates and pointed to revenue-generating ideas that need support from Democratic Gov. J.B. Pritzker.”
Rich people are everywhere in this city.
“Rich people are everywhere in this city.”
There are $3 million homes and $1 million condos in Southport now.
So the answer is “yes.”
What do all these rich people do for a living?
“What do all these rich people do for a living?”
They steal the fruits and labor of poor people. Not figuratively, but literally. The owners of the businesses who buy hand picked food, and the consumers who eat this food, are literally stealing the value of labor from poor immigrants in farm fields all around the country and in Mexico and Central America.
The article below (ignore the bias but read the tweets and watch videos) shows the United Farm Workers literally celebrates paying immigrant workers slave labor wages of $1.86 to harvest 60 bundles of radishes using 10,000 year old technology – shovels and ‘the stoop’.
Meanwhile, over in Japan and the Netherlands, they have machines that can clear an entire radish field in a day. Same goes for Brussel Sprouts, Peas, Tomatoes, Carrots, Potatoes, etc…
So think about that the next time you eat at Publican or some other expensive restaurant – you’re exploiting and stealing the value of the labor of some dirt poor illegal immigrant.
Meanwhile, there are dozens of unemployed former employees of Deere, Cat, and so on all around the state, because they cannot afford to make investments in labor saving technology, like other countries do all around the world, because it’s cheaper and easier to import slave-like labor to harvest our food.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/12/03/dems-farm-business-protect-illegal-immigrants-labor-saving-machines/
And to follow up on this comment, “Chicago is the nation’s capital of food and beverage manufacturing” according to an article at Fooddive dot com from 10/1/2019. Chicago manufactures so much food here for shipment all around the world, and the owners of these very profitable businesses live in the $3,000,000 homes on Southport, as they steal the fruits and labor from the farm laborer who earns $1.86 per 60 bundles of hand-picked radishes.
Just think about that for a moment.
https://www.fooddive.com/news/why-chicago-is-the-nations-capital-of-food-and-beverage-manufacturing/560943/
which is why it makes me furious that these liberal idiots want open borders
HD – your grossly over exaggerating the wealth of the people in the Southport Corridor and Chicago in general. Chicago has a lot of upper middle class or lower rung rich people, managerial class, small business owners. These are the types of wealthy people who cant afford the long lasting high taxes coming. LA, SF, DC, NYC all have a much larger pool of super wealthy. Chicago’s wealthy are still working schlubs. Personally I think taxes should be based not on how much you earn but by how you earn it. The owner of a food processing plant employing 200 people versus some jagoff filling bond orders and taking a slice, whos really more important to the welfare of this society? Financialization has gone way too far to the point it’s choking the real economy. Tax the shit out of it starting in NY, SF and DC.
They are upper middle class and working “rich”. Doctors, lawyers, consultants, investment banking, asset management, private equity, sales, upper level execs (not C suite). Rich in that they are the 1%, but hardly what most people mean when they say “rich”.
You can buy a $2 million house on $500k income pretty easily assuming you have the down payment.
Most are rich only in outward material goods and income, not truly “wealthy” in having F’ you money. A divorce, layoff, etc can devastate a lot of these folks financially.
marko – our billionaire governor is the richest governor in the history of the United States of America. He spent more of his own money campaigning than any other governor in the history of the United States of America, making the Rauner/JB governor’s race the most expensive governor’s race in the history of the United States of America. JB spent, according to public disclosures, $172,000,000 of his own money to purchase the governor’s office. His total campaign fund took in $176,000,000, so he financed 97.27% of his own campaign. His net worth is an estimated $3,400,000,000, making his purchase of the governor’s office representing only 5% of his vast wealth. But he is likely worth a lot more – just like Trump, JB himself refuses to disclose his tax returns for his offshore trusts that avoid paying the ‘fair tax’ that he himself campaigned on. So we really don’t know how much he is worth. JB may live a few blocks to the east of Southport, on Astor Street, but there is a lot of wealth, so much wealth in Chicago. Tax it all I say. Give them exactly what they ask for.
HD – you really are dense arent you – I mean pulling one person out of 11 million to make a point that what, there’s a few billionaires running around? JB bought a governorship so he could make his bond buddies richer by keeping us debt slaves paying higher vig (Id argue Raunner may be in on it too). JB’s the toast of the Palm Beach party circuit, his true home. Great example of Chicago’s “wealth”. Guys like JB buy governorship because they can, are bored or have some other scam to run. You know IL bonds are one of the best performing assets to own in the last 5 years becuase 11 million people paying insane interest in a low interest environment. Just sheep being sheared.
marko – I’m actually on your side, I just really enjoy roasting JB. He’s a hog and hopefully he gets treated like one too.
But really, one out of every 18 people in Illinois is a millionaire:
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20160521/ISSUE01/160529986/we-re-rich-illinois-has-more-millionaires-than-ever
“You can buy a $2 million house on $500k income pretty easily assuming you have the down payment.”
How? a 2 million dollar condo probably has property tax of 40-something k and assessments of 3k a month. You’re looking at probably what, 17 thousand dollars a month or something total? I don’t see how that is affordable on a 500k salary if you are putting any money into retirement/investment, want to travel, have kids or a spouse, etc etc. I make more than that and no way can I ‘afford’ a 2 million dollar condo.
Riz, all in you are around $11,250 or so on a $1.6 million mortgage. If you make $500k/yr at that is $41,667 a month. The standard front ratio for a mortgage is 28%. You’d be at 26.9% Even you assume $3k/month in other expenses, you still are under the standard back ratio of 36%.
The problem is that when you throw in nanny, private school, day care, and all the other keeping up with the Jones expenses.
I’ve been doing mortgages a long time. I assure you the vast majority of the people in those houses are not making nearly as much as you think.
“I’ve been doing mortgages a long time. I assure you the vast majority of the people in those houses are not making nearly as much as you think.”
Yes, yes yes. I live in a very wealthy area and my kids talk about the very large houses of their friends. I explain that behind most big houses are big mortgages, and behind most nice vehicles are 72 big monthly payments. I regularly remind my children that we would too could have a very big house – but it would mean only more rooms for them to clean every sat. My oldest wants their own bathroom. I say, OK, but you have to clean it too. And that idea suddenly goes away.
Keep spreading the Fox News talking points, Sonies, if it makes you happy. I’m a Democrat and I don’t want “open borders.” Nor do any Democrats I know.
“Nor do any Democrats I know.”
Yet, that is the platform of nearly every Democratic candidate for president. They’ve all said they want to decriminalize border crossings, stop all deportations and grant amnesty (and chain migration privileges), and Buttigege said his medicare plan includes illegal aliens. This is de facto open borders. Castro himself tried sneaking border crossers across himself before border patrol stopped him.
This is not just Fox News Talking Points – this is real $hit all of us heard with our own ears while watching the debates.
Does this make you a low-information Democrat? Or are you really a Republican who just doesn’t know it yet. Which one is it? it’s a binary answer. There’s so many delusion democrats in this state who are really republicans based on their beliefs (except for abortion) but continue to vote democrat instead. Anon(tfo) leads the pack of those guys. if Republicans could just moderate a bit on abortion, they’d take 756% of the popular vote nationwide.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-sanders/democrat-sanders-vows-to-halt-immigration-raids-deportations-if-elected-president-idUSKBN1XH1I4
Democrat Sanders vows to halt immigration raids, deportations if elected president
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/08/768226927/12-asylum-seekers-juli-n-castro-escorted-to-the-u-s-border-sent-back-to-mexico
12 Asylum-Seekers Julián Castro Escorted To The U.S. Border Sent Back To Mexico
Beto O’Rourke rolls out immigration plan: No border wall, citizenship for 11 million, new guest worker program
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2019/05/29/beto-o-rourke-rolls-out-immigration-plan-no-border-wall-citizenship-for-11-million-new-guest-worker-program/
(I know, he dropped out)
Elizabeth Warren has endorsed the most radical immigration idea in the 2020 primary
Warren is on board with a proposal, first floated by Julián Castro, to decriminalize crossing the border without papers.
https://www.vox.com/2019/6/26/18759986/elizabeth-warren-immigration-campaign-2020
VOX – YES VOX – NOT FOX NEWS
All Democrats At Main Debate Agree Illegal Immigrants Should Get Health Care Coverage
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand_when_asked_if_illegal_immigrants_should_get_health_care_coverage_at_debate.html
(watch the video where all 10 of them raise their hands, you’ll probably see it 100 more times during the campaign season, where all of them raise there hands….note they did not ask that question at the next debate!)
2020 Democrats Overwhelmingly Back Decriminalizing Border Crossings In Thursday Debate
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/decriminalizing-border-crossing-democrats-2020_n_5d15884ee4b03d6116392906
HUFFPO!!!
These 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidates Say They Would End Migrant Detention If Elected
https://www.newsweek.com/2020-presidential-candidates-migrant-detention-end-1447145
Senator Bernie Sanders
Senator Kamala Harris
Senator Cory Booker
Pete Buttigieg
Kirsten Gillibrand
Welcome to the Republican Party Dan #2, welcome home…
“These 2020 Democratic Presidential Candidates Say They Would End Migrant Detention If Elected”
And?
Obama did catch and release.
He also deported more illegals than even Trump has.
How about some actual immigration legislation?
“stop all deportations and grant amnesty”
Huh? Come on HD. Just stop.
Ronnie granted amnesty. Did it not make our country stronger? Yes, it did.
If they are “delusion democrats” who are secretly Republican, there is this thing called “an independent.” Gasp. It’s people who vote both Democratic and Republican.
Also, the parties change considerably over the years (and by state, city.) A California Democrat isn’t a Texas or Georgia Democrat. Same for an Orange County Republican and one in Alabama.
“I’m a Democrat and I don’t want “open borders.” Nor do any Democrats I know.”
This Dan #2.
Not a single Democrat is for “open borders.” Whatever that means.
Little known is that George W and Obama actually already built the wall along the southern border. And Obama was the deportation king. I don’t get it why people are acting like nothing has been done about the border. Plenty has been done and more needs to be.
Just a reminder: 40% of those in the country illegally fly in. And they are coming from Ireland, Russia, India, China, South Korea etc.
“LA, SF, DC, NYC all have a much larger pool of super wealthy.”
Agreed marko. Chicago doesn’t have enough start-ups to get the billionaires. We need more Groupons and Grubhubs (although there were quite a few millionaires created out of the CME IPO).
So even a $5 million property sale is considered the “top” bracket here whereas in the cities you list, that’s just a starter house for the rich. Properties routinely sell above $10 million in those other locations.
Chicago’s expensive units tend to sell to sports stars and some of the actors who shoot here who decided to buy (those on the Chicago Fire etc.) Or it is inherited wealth (the Pritzkers, Walgreens etc.)
“But really, one out of every 18 people in Illinois is a millionaire:”
Awesome. This is what I want to see.
We have a strong economy and our farmers are among the best in the world. Lots of rich farmers in the state. Think of the money due to Caterpillar and Deere downstate. Also State Farm.
We have a lot of educated, professional workers. This is why companies keep opening up offices here.
“So think about that the next time you eat at Publican or some other expensive restaurant – you’re exploiting and stealing the value of the labor of some dirt poor illegal immigrant.”
Actually, the farmers can’t find anyone to pick the crops even at $20 an hour and a 401k. In downstate Illinois, the farmers have used temporary workers from Mexico to pick peaches but the Trump Administration has cut the number of temporary visas. These are workers who literally would come to the US for 4 to 5 months a year, earn their money, and then go back home. Some of them have done it for 20 years. Same with the crab industry on the east coast.
Americans won’t do these jobs.
They aren’t illegals. They have work visas.
I wonder if pensioners getting over 5k a month are considered “millionaries” by net worth in that study too as having an equivalent retirement account to fund that sort of withdrawal rate would have to be well over a million bucks
“What do all these rich people do for a living?”
Lots of tech workers now. Some have stock options. Chicago also has a pretty large financial services community. You forget about the CME and CBOE not to mention BMO, Morningstar, Bank of America, Deutsche Bank, Citadel, Northern Trust, among others.
“I wonder if pensioners getting over 5k a month are considered “millionaries” by net worth in that study too as having an equivalent retirement account to fund that sort of withdrawal rate would have to be well over a million bucks”
Maybe.
It also doesn’t take that much to own your $300,000 house outright and be a Baby Boomer with a $750,000+ retirement.
Russ, yes, 500k is 40-something a month, but that’s pretax. I think post state and federal tax, social security etc its closer to 30k a month. Call me crazy but if you’re bringing home 30k a month and spending 15k on mortgage + taxes for your home, you’re stretching yourself.
“Obama did catch and release.
He also deported more illegals than even Trump has.
How about some actual immigration legislation?”
Yes, yes and yes. I’ll give Obama credit where credit is due and he did a dang good job with that. The DREAMER thing, not so much. He should have sent them home too.
“It also doesn’t take that much to own your $300,000 house outright and be a Baby Boomer with a $750,000+ retirement.”
well the article didn’t include housing equity so yeah…
either way a million bucks doesn’t go as far as it used to thats for sure
Riz, I don’t disagree.
Just pointing out that it doesn’t take that much to qualify for a $2 million purchase. By mortgage underwriting standards, the person also isn’t stretching. Also, they aren’t as well off as you’d think.
I always tell people the bank can’t tell you what you can afford… we can only tell you how much you can qualify to borrow. Most people qualify for more than they can “afford” because mortgage underwriting does not look at the day to day expenses that people incur – namely day care, nannies, landscaping, private school, etc. All the other ancillary things that people spend money on to keep up appearances in their social circle.
A lot of these people are caught on a hamster wheel – big mortgage, expensive wife and girlfriend, private schools, range rover, BMW, etc. They aren’t broke, but hardly independently wealthy. They are doing ok as long as they keep running…
Rarely ever see someone making say $500-$750k buying a $500k house, paying it off in like 5-10 years and just stacking chips for a rainy day or being able to retire early or get away from corporate drone grind. It happens, but I see far more people making $500k buying $1.5 – $2m houses….
I get it,
I have a lot of colleagues in that situation. I was always raised to save 20% of everything, and to not spend a lot more than 20% of what I make on a home.
That’s half my salary right there so a 2 million dollar house really isn’t an option.
Does anyone else remember the days when people used to be impressed when you said you lived in a ‘million dollar house’? lol.
“I have a lot of colleagues in that situation. I was always raised to save 20% of everything, and to not spend a lot more than 20% of what I make on a home. ”
Back in the days (when I had to walk barefoot and uphill to a one room school house, both ways) we called people like you ‘fiscally conservative’ when it came to personal finances.
But we live in a big city and big cities are expensive places to live. 20% of the gross on a $100,000 a year job is $1,666.67 a month. our state legislator don’t even make $100,000 a year and they are some of the highest paid legislators in the country.
$1,667.67 a month, by your own admission, rents a one bedroom on the north side, and a vintage 2 bedroom apartment on the northwest side. 20% of gross on a home is certainly laudable but not realistic for most of the population of chicago. It’s easy when, by your own admission, you make in excess of $500,000 a year, (which is totally just fine, you work your butt off for it) to pay $8,333.33 per month for living. $8,000 a month gives you a lot of options to live. But for most people, 20% of take home even on a $100,000 a year income is not realistic. Just be happy you’re not part of the unwashed masses like the rest of us!
“But for most people, 20% of take home even on a $100,000 a year income is not realistic. Just be happy you’re not part of the unwashed masses like the rest of us!”
It’s sad that that is the reality. What do most of us spend on housing then? 30%? 35%? Hopefully not more than that.
As far as unwashed masses go…I’m still part of the masses. If we were on an airplane, I might be flying in ‘economy plus’, but not first class..and a far throw from flying private.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-affordable-rental-shortage-study-chicago-0511-20170510-story.html
The lowest-income renters, those with incomes below about $18,946, make up 27.6 percent of renters in Cook County and 79 percent of them are devoting half or more of their income to rent, according to Smith. That’s creating a serious rent burden for them. Renters with incomes under $31,500 also are facing burdens because they are spending more than they should on rent. Over 85 percent of them are devoting more than 30 percent of their income to rent. The median household income in Cook County is $63,153.
Which brings me back full circle to the illegal immigrants. They compete with natives for affordable housing. Straight up compete with natives; and you know supply and demand, right? Because the author of the article in the Tribune fails to mention the effect of illegal immigrants on the availability of affordable housing. How many illegal immigrants are there? Pew says the Chicago area has 425,000; other sources say north of 500,000 in Illinois overall.
But a recent Yale (yes, that Yale) study shows that there are actually TWICE as many illegal immigrants in the country than previous estimated. It’s 22,100,000 illegal immigrants, not 11,300,000. So using this study, and doubling the Chicago area number of illegal immigrant, it’s safe to estimate that there are really between between 800,000 to over 1,000,000 illegal immigrants in IL, most of whom likely live in the Chicago area, all competing for affordable housing with the natives. The most effective and easiest way to solve the problem is to kick out illegal immigrants making landlords rich! But now in Illinois it is illegal to discriminate housing based on documentation status! You can’t even threaten to evict them for being undocumented and illegal – they can sue you for damages for even suggesting and it’s a crime!
But this is not PC to say, and now I’m a bad person for suggesting that THE MAIN cause of the affordable housing crisis is 1,000,000 illegal immigrants competing with natives for affordable housing.
https://insights.som.yale.edu/insights/yale-study-finds-twice-as-many-undocumented-immigrants-as-previous-estimates
“Actually, the farmers can’t find anyone to pick the crops even at $20 an hour and a 401k.”
Any proof of this?
In the 1970’s meatpacking jobs were all done by white American males who were raising families. In the 1980’s, it all changed. Unions lost their power, the MeatAg companies shipped plants to right-to-work states and started hiring illegals and newly “legal” immigrants for the lowest possible wages.
see the section titled Changing Industry: http://www.ufcw.org/about/ufcw-history/
PS It’s interesting to note that people who work at HomeDepot barely make $15 per hr. yet they almost all are smiling and happy on the job.
I thought I read somewhere recently is that the consensus among preeminent economists is that the U.S. needs to at least double our current annual rate of immigration.
““Actually, the farmers can’t find anyone to pick the crops even at $20 an hour and a 401k.” ”
Watch the videos of those amazing machines picking tomatoes, peas, brussel sports, radishes, it’s amazing.
“In the 1970’s meatpacking jobs were all done by white American males who were raising families. ”
Interesting you say that, because this was my grandfather’s job. He raised a family of 7, including my father, on a single income from a meatpacking job basically most of his career. His plant was moved out of his midwestern post-industrial city to a far more rural state. He followed the plant to the new location with the 2 of the 5 minor children in tow; but he saw the writing on the wall. He only made it a few years before returning back to his post-industrial home city. He did odd jobs for a while before retiring. The neighborhood turned to crap, he went into a nursing home and died in the late 1980’s. My father once drove me by his childhood home, but we could only drive by quickly, for gangs and ruffians now occupied the neighborhood, and it wasn’t safe to stop moving; the new residents of his childhood home were all out in the yard just staring at our station wagon as we slowly creeped on by. They probably thought from a distance we were going to do a driveby.
“I thought I read somewhere recently is that the consensus among preeminent economists is that the U.S. needs to at least double our current annual rate of immigration.”
Until the next recession, a 8% unemployment, and millions of more immigrants competing with natives for the same jobs.
There’s no need to employ technology or robots when there is plenty of cheap labor abound. That’s just the economists like it.
What’s the old saying about economists, they make astrologists look credible?
“Until the next recession, a 8% unemployment, and millions of more immigrants competing with natives for the same jobs.”
There are 7 million job openings.
GenX is too small to fill them all. The huge boomer generation is moving on. Retiring. Millennials are big but they aren’t getting training in welding, plumbing etc. We need immigrants to boost growth or else we’ll become Japan, which has a falling birth rate and no way to grow.
“Any proof of this?”
Yes, helmethofer as we all chattered about this in 2017 when it was making headlines. I’ve posted this article before.
Americans don’t want to do these jobs. They don’t want to do meatpacking either.
But your example is just another example of how our demographics have completely changed. Whites are going to be in the minority soon. They weren’t in the 1970s. Makes sense that they did the meatpacking jobs then. Who else was going to do it?
https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi-farms-immigration/
“The DREAMER thing, not so much. He should have sent them home too.”
The Dreamers ARE home. Hopefully they fix it so that those poor people, some who are now approaching 40 years old, get their status fixed so they can have some certainty in their lives.
Again, we need MORE talent like they provide, not less.
The Greeks and Portugal have both been able to attract a lot of immigrants, and investment, with their golden visa programs. The Canadians have also been able to address the deficits in their workforce through smart immigration laws. The US needs to revise its laws.
“Watch the videos of those amazing machines picking tomatoes, peas, brussel sports, radishes, it’s amazing.”
It’s not widespread in every type of crop and those machines cost $$$$$.
https://will.illinois.edu/news/story/farmers-are-seeking-more-temporary-h-2a-workers-and-keeping-them-longer
Apparently the number of temporary visas was a record last year. But they’re having trouble even finding temps now too because the Mexican economy is doing so much better, why come north? You can work in an auto plant in Guanajuato instead.
But the 66-year old Mexican man in the article is impressive. He’s still doing it in the summer heat for just $10 an hour.
66 years old.
Wow.
Russ,
In today’s interest rate environment and with the large standard deduction and SALT limitations larger down payments are looking a lot smarter. Where else are you going to get 3.75% on a fixed income investment after tax? So are you seeing a lot of buyers with large (>>20%) down payments? For older buyers with savings that’s one way that a more expensive home becomes more “affordable”.
And, yeah, I get if the mortgage balance is large enough you get to deduct part of the interest. But then you’re talking pre-tax equivalent interest and it’s still a good deal.
Plenty of our buyers are doing super huge down payments but then I suspect our clientele is not typical.
“Americans don’t want to do these jobs. They don’t want to do meatpacking either. ”
That’s not exactly true. They just haven’t found the market clearing wage yet. And your article essentially says that towards the bottom.
Gary, that is an interesting perspective in thinking about the down payment as a fixed income vehicle in this environment. Most still seem to believe they will get a higher return than the mortgage interest rate in equity markets though so typically won’t put down more than the bare minimum required.
Yeah, that would be the perspective if you were 100% equities. But all but the most aggressive portfolios are going to have at least 20% fixed income.
” Personally I think taxes should be based not on how much you earn but by how you earn it. The owner of a food processing plant employing 200 people versus some jagoff filling bond orders and taking a slice, whos really more important to the welfare of this society?”
So you want to let the government decide which jobs are more valuable to society? Sounds like central planning to me.
And keeping the financial markets functioning smoothly is pretty damn important. When they don’t bad things happen.
Yes Sabrina, those machines cost a lot of money. But it’s cheaper to pay a 66 year old man $10 an hour to pick fruit in the fields, just like our hominoid ancestors 10,000 year ago, instead of investing in technology like many other countries in the world.
As for Dreamers, they are not home. This is not their home, no matter how comfortable they feel living here. I know it’s ‘not their fault’ their parents brought them over as children, but it’s not ‘our problem’ to reward them with citizenship. There are apparently 33,000 people enrolled in DACA in Chicago. That’s what, roughly 15,000 more housing units available to natives (assuming a little over 2 people per housing unit)? Imagine if 15,000 low to moderately priced units suddenly appeared on the market because there were no dreamers to rent them. It would solve a HUGE CHUNK of the CTU’s housing crisis for its teachers! It’s so frustrating to hear everyone in the media, message boards, politicians all blame everything else but the true cause of the problem of affordable housing – too many people who aren’t supposed to be here competing for too little supply of housing. this of course isn’t the case in every major city (SF, NY for example) but it definitely is a major problem in big renter cities like Chicago. Like I linked the article above, a lot of Chicago is low income and they mostly rent and spend enormous chunks of their income on rent. Because too many people who aren’t supposed to be here are competing for their housing. And this reverberates all the way up the market to the top where rents are high and luxury rentals are the only rentals developers build these days.
“or else we’ll become Japan, which has a falling birth rate and no way to grow.”
yeah everyone thinks of what a shithole Japan is because they don’t take in many poor dumb immigrants from africa and the middle east
This is rare, but I am siding with HD on this one. I would consider myself as ‘progressive’ or ‘left leaning’ on a lot of issues – but not immigration.
My family did it legally. They worked hard, they pay taxes, and they contribute to the system. to me, THAT is the ‘american dream’. Not coming here illegally, working ‘less desirable’ jobs but getting paid in cash, not paying taxes, and utilizing the country’s benefits at other peoples expense, while relying on having children here that gain citizenship for additional benefits.
I understand it’s not always that simple, But it’s the reality in many, many cases.
Riz, you’re one of those guys like anon(tfo) that leans left on social issues but is right on fiscal and economic issues. But the Democratic parties does not represent your interests – either socially, economically or culturally. I bet if you objectively, I mean truly objectively – looked at your core beliefs, the most important beliefs you have – and make two columns, and put Liz Warren/Bernie on one side, and Trump on the other, and again – objectively compared your beliefs, and temporarily suppressed the ‘orange man bad’ feelings you had, you’d find that your core beliefs align more with the Republican party platform than Democrats. Sure you might have some disagreements few people fit into specific categories.
I think to you the most important issues would be financial. Medicare for all will reduce your salary by 2/3rd. Liz and Bernie won’t let you earn $500k under a medicare only plan. No private insurance under their plans. Single payer – they decide what you earn. You can’t accept private insurance because it won’t exist!
And taxes, they’ve all said that your taxes will go up too.
HD, you’re speaking to the choir in regards to the Democratic Party.
I’m not crazy about trump, but the Dems are currently an absolute s*itshow. I don’t mind Biden tooooo much, but definitely think Bernie/warren etc are completely off their rockers.
TBH, I wouldn’t mind a paycut and paying higher taxes if it meant more people would have affordable access to healthcare. But I’m not looking to pay higher taxes so that some high school senior with a 24 ACT can go to college for free on my dime. no thanks.
Since everyone’s talking about meat packing in this context, here are a couple stories I wrote about Chicago’s oldest company cashing out from its home in the Fulton Market and making a move to the confluence of Pilsen, Bridgeport and McKinley Park:
https://mckinleypark.news/news/538-cougle-foods-plots-move-to-ashland-avenue-as-one-of-final-exits-from-fulton-market
https://mckinleypark.news/news/544-aldermen-cougle-foods-family-present-planned-poultry-plant-to-neighborhood
*No one really wants to ban all private insurance. Not even Bernie Sanders.*
https://theweek.com/articles/850638/no-really-wants-ban-all-private-insurance-not-even-bernie-sanders
“But here’s the thing: Sanders’ Medicare-for-all bill doesn’t ban private health insurance. What it does ban is any private health coverage that duplicates the coverage offered by the government. For example, if Sanders Medicare-for-all system covered hospital stays but not dental work, then private insurers would still be free to offer plans that cover dental needs. In fact, Medicare already bans any private insurers from offering the same coverage it offers. Canada’s single-payer system does this too.”
This article is from the progressive The Week. The article is click bait and disingenuous because the author sets up a straw man – banning all private insurance (which no one, not even fox news has said) – and knocks it down by saying only the plan only bans private ~health~ insurance.
And let’s be honest, it’s not going to be Medicare for All. It’s going to be Medicaid for All. They’ll still call it medicare for all but actually have medicaid for all reimbursement rates.
And you’re a younger doctor, so you’re likely an employee of a health system instead of a partner at a private practice – but either way, I’m sure you’re familiar enough with medicaid reimbursement rates, there’s no way they’ll be able to support your salary on medicaid or even just medicare rates alone. It’s the private insurance and self-pays that get you paid. You’re salary will be cut. You’ll be making what the general practitioners make. a medicare for all plan will say anyone with an MD next to their name, regardless of practice or field, should get paid within some range, just as most attorneys in the federal government are paid on a GS-scale. I’d be freaked out if I were in your shoes. God forbid all of DC goes Democrat next year – the revolution has put a target on your back – high income earning and in the medical field? You’re toast.
“And you’re a younger doctor, so you’re likely an employee of a health system instead of a partner at a private practice – but either way, I’m sure you’re familiar enough with medicaid reimbursement rates, there’s no way they’ll be able to support your salary on medicaid or even just medicare rates alone. It’s the private insurance and self-pays that get you paid. You’re salary will be cut. You’ll be making what the general practitioners make. a medicare for all plan will say anyone with an MD next to their name, regardless of practice or field, should get paid within some range, just as most attorneys in the federal government are paid on a GS-scale. I’d be freaked out if I were in your shoes. God forbid all of DC goes Democrat next year – the revolution has put a target on your back – high income earning and in the medical field? You’re toast.”
Everything you said is really accurate – except I saw the writing on the wall a long time ago (it helps having a physician parent), and took the lower paying ( to start) gig that was on a partnership track. Currently a partner , and have equity in not only our hospital contract, but in all our independently owned outpatient surgicenters.
I’m ‘high earning’, but I’m not making neurosurgery, ortho, plastics, high end derm etc money.
I also don’t use a penny of my spouses income for anything. And I’m not trying to buy that 2 million dollar house. If my salary was chopped in half tomorrow it would literally make 0 impact on me financially (would obviously be terrible for my ego).
All that being said – I think it’s pretty unlikely we’ll every get to a model where we are reimbursing medicaid rates to docs – b/c most of us would just quit. I’d rather own a bar. Or sell high end luxury cars. Or be a realtor. Literally anything else.
I’m not going to be frying liver tumors and unclogging people’s legs for 200k a year.
*Sabrina banging head against desk*
“I [bang] just [bang] wanted [bang] to [bang] talk [bang] about [bang] real [bang] estate”
“I’m not going to be frying liver tumors and unclogging people’s legs for 200k a year.”
$200,000? Hahahah! A GS-15 medical doctor on a step 10 scale earns: $138,572
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/0600/medical-officer-series-0602/
“For GS-15 — 5 years of graduate training in the specialty of the position to be filled or equivalent experience and training.
But the question that gets floated around in conservative circles is this: if medical care is a human and constitutional right, can the government force doctors to provide medical care against their will? if there aren’t enough doctors, can they force doctors to treat patients, just like the federal government can draft citizens to fight in wars? What in theory could stop them from forcing you to provide health care? how far will the government go to ensure equal access to this human and constitutional right? It’s all just theoretical but 10-15 years from now when there is a shortage of doctors unwilling to work for the national health care system, will they be able to force you to work? It’s something to consider. It’s just theoretical, but how far will the revolution go. I don’t have the answer to that.
“*Sabrina banging head against desk*
“I [bang] just [bang] wanted [bang] to [bang] talk [bang] about [bang] real [bang] estate”
THAT’S what the newer posts are for. The older posts always trend off topic..
Homedelete,
You make an interesting point about affordable housing that I had not considered. If a large percentage of the lower income population is here illegally (likely) then I wonder how much of government funding/ developer funding for affordable housing is actually going towards illegal immigrant housing.
I’m actually in favor of more liberal immigration but I’d like to see it done legally.
WRT medicare for all…what never gets discussed is when you eliminate private pay medical care then what is left to subsidize medicare?
“*Sabrina banging head against desk*
“I [bang] just [bang] wanted [bang] to [bang] talk [bang] about [bang] real [bang] estate” ”
Hi Matt. I like coffee too. If you think this blog is going to stick to real estate topics, you must be REALLY new. Welcome.
HD, I have no idea man.
Honestly, I think healthcare should be a human right, if a country can afford it for its citizens.
But throw in the cost of college, med school, and the slavery that is residency, we torture doctors in this country nowadays.
if someone gave me college and med school for free, and didn’t pay me 13 dollars an hour for my 6 years of residency, maybe I would work for 150k a year.
“WRT medicare for all…what never gets discussed is when you eliminate private pay medical care then what is left to subsidize medicare?”
Cost cutting and higher taxes. The medicare surcharge will need to be increased. Riz’s practice’s profits will suffer greatly as Medicaid like payments under Medicare for all will never pay nearly enough to sustain his practice’s income. My pediatrician’s office has a big sign at the front desk: NO NEW MEDICAID PATIENTS. They can’t afford to take them.
Ultimately, after a very rough transition, everyone will realize that cost cutting is the only way to stabilize the system, as new taxes to increase rates will be political suicide as it was for a lot of Democrats nationwide after the disasterous Obamacare.
Salaries will be cut, facilities will not be upgrade, new equipment will not be purchased, staff will be cut, etc. Most medical facilities will end up dingy offices in class C buildings with old carpet, low ceilings and stale air. Which basically describes nearly all rural and inner city providers, as they are the most likely to be primarily medicaid and medicare based. The reason suburban providers are so nice is because they take private insurance and self-pays. northwest community hospital and northwestern hospitals are great almost luxury facilities. Jackson park hospital and st. bernards, not so much.
I think you will also find that a lot of hospitals currently operating on the edge will simply close.
Sabrina believes:
“the Mexican economy is doing so much better, why come north?”
The Wall Street Journal reports (2100 words) :
“Mexico’s economy hasn’t grown at all this year, its worst performance in a decade.
Economists forecast just 1.2% growth next year—well below the president’s promises of 4% average annual growth and 6% growth by the end of his term.
Mexico’s stagnation marks the first time in two decades that Mexico’s economic cycle has diverged from the U.S., its northern neighbor and destination for 85% of its manufactured exports.
Crime has hit record highs, with murders climbing another 2.2% during the first 10 months of the year compared with last year’s record tally of 36,685 slayings. More than ever, parts of Mexico appear ungovernable as powerful crime syndicates take on the government.
Since taking power, [President Obrador] has attacked many of the country’s fragile institutions like courts, the central bank, and regulators as part of a “mafia of power” against him. And his party is now trying to oust the non-partisan head of the agency that oversees elections in time for the 2022 midterms.
Enrique Krauze, one of the country’s leading historians [says] Mr. López Obrador’s government appears to be “on the road to becoming a populist dictatorship.”
A December poll … found 65% of Mexicans believe organized crime is stronger than the Mexican government. Just 29% said the government is stronger.
More than eight in ten [Mexico City] residents say crime is their biggest problem. Just south of Mexico City, Catholic churches … have suspended Mass during evenings because parishioners are too frightened to attend….
Less than 13% of violent crimes end up with a suspect appearing before a judge, compared with 80% in the U.S.
[On Nov. 30, 2019] a small army of gunmen in a convoy of about 50 armored trucks, some mounted with .50 caliber rifles, attacked a small town in Coahuila, less than 40 miles from the Texas border, shooting up the town hall. At least 23 people, 17 of them presumed cartel members, were killed in a two-day running battle between security forces and gunmen….
In July, on a visit to the countryside, [President Obrador] extolled the virtues of a primitive sugar-cane grinder powered by one mangy horse in a video he posted on his Twitter account which went viral. “This is an authentic people’s economy,” he said as the horse went around in a circle, grinding out the cane juice. “This is the economy we are promoting,” he said.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mexicos-polarizing-president-presides-over-rising-violence-flailing-economy-11575695721
But to Sabrina’s way of thinking: “why come north?”
“the Mexican economy is doing so much better, why come north?”
It’s a huge country. Ever been? What’s going on in one state, isn’t in another.
I never said it’s not without its problems. I wish AMLO had lived up to his promise. Instead, it’s going the other way quickly.
But the economy is now solid. If you want to know how much has changed in the last 25 years, check out Tony Cohan’s “On Mexican Time” about how he and his wife moved to San Miguel de Allende from LA and bought, and renovated, a colonial villa there in the mid-90s. When they arrived there was one phone in town, at the post office in the plaza. They used to load their car with renovation materials from the Home Depot in LA and drive it all the way down.
And now there’s cable in their villa, wifi, Starbucks in the plaza, AMC movie theater just outside the Centro and Home Depot.
All boats have been lifted under NAFTA.
The number of Mexicans coming into the US reversed several years ago. I’ve actually met some who lived in LA for twenty years but decided to go back due to the opportunities and cheaper standard of living. Heck, you can even go to NFL and NBA games in Mexico City now.
But the economy is slowing. Tourism is getting hit. It’s seen a manufacturing slowdown, like the US has as well. The cartels are impacting farming, with wars over avocados. Canada, also, by the way, is likely in a recession. For now, the US is staying out of one.
“Ultimately, after a very rough transition, everyone will realize that cost cutting is the only way to stabilize the system, as new taxes to increase rates will be political suicide as it was for a lot of Democrats nationwide after the disasterous Obamacare.”
Pulease. Is this what is happening in places with universal health care? Finland? Norway? Sweden? Even the UK has a solid system.
The average American family now pays $20,000 for health insurance. A year. Do you really think their taxes are going to rise that much? Imagine what it would be like if even half that money was invested for retirement or a child’s college education or to start a business. My god. The country would be so much richer.
We should all be lucky like this young couple to live in Finland.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/07/opinion/sunday/finland-socialism-capitalism.html
“But I’m not looking to pay higher taxes so that some high school senior with a 24 ACT can go to college for free on my dime. no thanks.”
A hundred years ago it was radical to offer “free” public education up to the age of 18. For men AND women.
How odd.
Why would the taxpayers agree to pay for that?
“objectively compared your beliefs, and temporarily suppressed the ‘orange man bad’ feelings you had, you’d find that your core beliefs align more with the Republican party platform than Democrats.”
Which Republican party HD? Isn’t that the problem?
The party of Paul Ryan? Or Rand Paul? Or Donald Trump?
Trump is about to give 12-weeks paid family leave to all federal workers next week in exchange for his Space Force. I have no idea how much it’s going to cost. Neither does Trump. Nor does he care. He spends like a drunken sailor. Worse than the Democrats.
So, again, which Republican party?
“My family did it legally.”
So, Riz, you’re open to having a set quota from each country where people can come in every year? Maybe a Canadian system where a certain skill gets you on the fast track. Same with Australia.
What about refugees? Last month the US didn’t accept even a single one. After the Vietnam War, more than 2 million Vietnamese came to the US under the refugee program. You’re open to having something similar for Syrians, Venezuelans, Iraqis etc.?
“yeah everyone thinks of what a shithole Japan is because they don’t take in many poor dumb immigrants from africa and the middle east”
Sonies, Japan is in a very dark place economically. They are in a crisis as there are too many old people and no young people.
They have been letting in those from Vietnam, among other Asian countries.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2019/11/19/commentary/japan-commentary/economic-challenge-japans-aging-crisis/
“That’s not exactly true. They just haven’t found the market clearing wage yet. And your article essentially says that towards the bottom.”
$20 wasn’t it.
I guess some Americans might do it at $40 or $50 an hour.
Lol.
Same with cleaning hotel rooms and providing care giving in nursing homes where they are literally paid $10 an hour (sometimes lower.) The cleaning people in Miami high rises make like $9 an hour. You can’t live in Miami on it. They need to unionize. Desperately.
“I think you will also find that a lot of hospitals currently operating on the edge will simply close.”
Medicaid expansion has actually caused the opposite to happen. Hospitals that otherwise would have shut down, now have not. They actually have patients who can pay.
“after the disasterous Obamacare”
The vast majority of Americans LOVE Obamacare. And the Republicans can take it away at their own peril. If they do it, it’s political suicide now.
“The average American family now pays $20,000 for health insurance.”
Nope. That’s the full freight un-subsidized cost. The average family isn’t actually paying that much.
“Medicaid expansion has actually caused the opposite to happen. Hospitals that otherwise would have shut down, now have not. They actually have patients who can pay.”
I actually looked at one of my mother’s Medicare reimbursements to the hospital. $.20 on the dollar. There’s no way hospitals can survive. I’ve spoken to doctors and hospital administrators. They’ve confirmed that hospitals/ doctor’s offices can’t survive without private insurance payments. https://www.crowe.com/insights/asset/w/who-gains-from-medicare-for-all-not-hospitals
The notion that changing who pays for healthcare is going to actually take costs out of the system is sort of like the cartoon where the scientists are working on a blackboard and then write “a miracle happens”.
“Same with cleaning hotel rooms and providing care giving in nursing homes where they are literally paid $10 an hour (sometimes lower.) The cleaning people in Miami high rises make like $9 an hour. You can’t live in Miami on it.”
Then who’s doing these jobs? Why are they taking them? Why aren’t they getting better jobs in a thriving economy?
https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2019-07-10/poor-minorities-bear-the-brunt-as-urban-hospitals-close
It’s not just that rural hospitals are closing down down, it’s urban ones too. There’s a variety of reasons but it’s not refusal to accept Medicaid expansion. Medicaid reimbursement rates are low, hospitals are less needed as there are fewer and shorter hospital stays, the rise of the out-patient facility, and less maternity care. All that’s left in most cases is an emergency room. And the last time I went to an urban (vs. suburban) emergency room within the last few years (acute food poisoning), I was the only native english speaking patient in the emergency room. Illinois medicaid covers illegal immigrant children regardless of documentation status, but they don’t cover the adult. This is consistent with reported research that many lower income and illegal immigrants use the emergency room as their primary care doctor. So yeah, if the local ER is funded by medicaid, medicare, and charity care to ‘undocumented’ immigrants, and most of the other functions of the hospital have been shifted to outpatient care, the hospital is going to close down.
Getting to Gary’s point above about shifting money around, the article quotes someone that basically says that a health care system that is generally profitable but loses money at specific hospitals should be forced keep the money losing hospital open to provide care to communities in need. The problem is that your health care is really expensive – the article talks specifically about dialysis – and forcing everyone else to subsidize it is a problem.
Cook County is trying to provide free healthcare to its poor and uninsured patients through a system of hospitals (stroger/provident) and outpatient centers. Which is laudable. But it has $700,000,000 in unpaid bills because even when the biggest payer in town – the county government – is paying for it, it’s still not enough money.
Per the New York times today (December 9, 2019), Business section, page 1), Chicago LOST 13,000 “innovation” jobs.
“Then who’s doing these jobs? Why are they taking them? Why aren’t they getting better jobs in a thriving economy?”
They live 10 people to a house, get food stamps, public aide, etc. We effectively subsidize mega corporations to allow them to pay shit unlivable wages. Our grandparents are rolling in their graves for what we’ve let happen in this country. When the FIRE economy collapses we are going to be left with a country of shit service sector jobs with a sliver of managerial class. Enjoy 5-6% RE commissions on $2million homes while you can because that shit is heading for extinction.
Testing to see if this comment still ends up in moderation even when posting from a computer that has never browsed this site before.
Testing with a different email.
“?They live 10 people to a house, get food stamps, public aide, etc. We effectively subsidize mega corporations to allow them to pay shit unlivable wages. Our grandparents are rolling in their graves for what we’ve let happen in this country. When the FIRE economy collapses we are going to be left with a country of shit service sector jobs with a sliver of managerial class. Enjoy 5-6% RE commissions on $2million homes while you can because that shit is heading for extinction.”
Yes, flood the country with cheap labor (and 22,000,000 illegal immigrants according to Yale) and you can pay them crap. It’s called the supply and demand in the labor market. The natives are forced to accept low wage jobs as they compete with foreigners.
And then politicians pander to give more welfare benefits, higher wages, etc to these same natives that they’ve just undercut with their policy of flooding the labor market with cheap labor. “Only we can solve the very problem that we created”. It’s a joke, both parties are responsible.
“Yes, flood the country with cheap labor (and 22,000,000 illegal immigrants according to Yale) and you can pay them crap. It’s called the supply and demand in the labor market.”
Correct. College kids (Groypers) are figuring out that the Jewish liberal business class and Conservatism Inc. have been selling their futures out from under them — to immigrants. Not only to these kids have to give up their American college spots to foreigners, now even the brightest American kids are being undercut by Indian iummigrant tech workers! It’s disgusting.
There is so much hatred out there for American culture and people, it’s almost unbelievable. The worst traitors are the CEO types who have their Kenilworth house but could care less about the middle class. Right behind them are the dingbat at easily duped white women, who have taken sides collaborating with hateful Jews, the LGBT pervert juggernaut, and the illegals. All out of some misplaced instinct, or brainwashing imho, to be sympathetic and maternal — to everyone but their own people and sons, fathers, etc. White women have to be the stupidest people in America today. No wonder so many of them can’t find spouses and end up fat and bitter.
There have been some people who have revisited the 100 year old documents and articles written both pro-and-against the Suffrage movement. It turns out that those women and men who were against Suffrage had the predictions that turned out to be ACCURATE.
So, I hope the white liberal women, who are being replaced by the AOCs of the world are happy being bitter, fat, and slaving away in an office drinking their Starbucks, wasting their prime years. So many end up single, or dealing with IVF bullsh!t and it’s just all a joke.
PS Who cares if Japan isn’t growing its “GDP”? what matters is the per capita wealth, and Japan will be better off with less people and no Third World immigration and crime like Sweden. Although it would be interesting to see some Samurai fighting in the streets against Jihadists with machetes. Poor cucked UK and Sweden cannot even deal with their problems. Japan is wise to avoid it.
HH’s crazy conspiracy theories again.
There’s crazies on both sides of the aisle. HH’s conspiracy theory rant is exactly the same as AOC’s selfie vid where she claims (without evidence) “that growing [white cauliflower) in community gardens in nonwhite neighborhoods is an act of colonialism.” Yes, she actually said this.
https://nypost.com/2019/05/22/ocasio-cortez-likens-growing-cauliflower-to-colonialism/
HH, I think we’ve found you a new girlfriend. The two of you can lay in the grass in central park and count the chemtrails together.
“They live 10 people to a house, get food stamps, public aide, etc.”
That doesn’t answer my questions though. Presumably Sabrina is saying that it’s illegal immigrants that are taking these jobs since Americans “won’t take these jobs”. If that’s true then they are not getting public aide and unionization is not the solution. If people are concerned about low wages for illegal immigrants then you have to address the supply side.
“We effectively subsidize mega corporations to allow them to pay shit unlivable wages.”
Even if US citizens are getting these jobs and getting public aid that is NOT a corporate subsidy. It does not benefit the companies. There is no logical narrative by which if you took away those benefits those companies would be worse off.
“Enjoy 5-6% RE commissions on $2million homes while you can because that shit is heading for extinction.”
Well, I don’t charge that much on a $2 MM house so I’m not enjoying them today 🙂 Alternatives exist today but the consumer is a bit naive about how real estate works. It should be / can be extinct today.
hd, you can’t do a drive-by “conspiracy theory” and “rant” comment like that. It sounds like you’re whining. That’s a leftist tactic and you should be ashamed.
There’s nothing untrue in what I say.
The Democrat party is kvetching right now that all the remaining candidates are White. Believe me, it won’t be long when the white liberal idiot women are discriminated against INSIDE hideous liberalism because of their skin color. AOC is the harbinger of things to come. Soon, there will be no tolerance for white hetero women, like they already have hatred for white males. White sluts and fat career shills have an awakening coming.
“Even if US citizens are getting these jobs and getting public aid that is NOT a corporate subsidy. It does not benefit the companies.”
What? The companies would have to provide health care to employees, if they weren’t getting it for free. If there were no food stamps and food pantries, wages would have to be higher.
If employers can rely on the gvt. to provide these things, they can pay lower wages. How can you not see this?
What’s really insidious is this new Jewish/Conservatism Inc. term called the “gig economy”. There is this Zio-shill from TX, who’s loyal to his Jewish donors pushing this now. Dan Crenshaw.
He’s pushing the libertarian bullsh!t that workers are “more free” and have more opportunities being hired part-time or 1099, etc. This is just another way for the Judeo-Conservatism Inc. globalist class to avoid payihg more wages & benefits.
“Even if US citizens are getting these jobs and getting public aid that is NOT a corporate subsidy. It does not benefit the companies. There is no logical narrative by which if you took away those benefits those companies would be worse off.”
You don’t think it’s a problem that the break rooms at Walmart has a poster on the wall directing employees how to apply for public aid? Low wage employers don’t have to pay for health insurance or even pay enough to feed a family because public aid fills in the gaps. It is absolutely a subsidy.
Take away those subsidies and employers would suddenly have to start offering higher pay and health insurance because the labor market would demand it, they wouldn’t be able to fill the jobs with natives.
HH,
There’s so many points you could make without referring to the conspiracy theories of jews, or your stupid comments like “White sluts and fat career shills have an awakening coming.”, all without evidence.
I wish I could just ignore you. You always pop out of the woodwork with your conspiracy theories while the rest of us are having a decent conversation. marko’s link to the troubles in mexico was really insightful. I knew things were bad there, but I didn’t know it was that bad!
For the record, I absolutely believe we need a better healthcare system. Costs need to be lowered. There needs to be more access. People need to take better care of themselves. There needs to be more preventative care. I also believe it needs to be fair – but not necessarily equitable. Fair is treating everyone the same whereas equitable means fixing real or perceived inequalities. But regardless,
The problem is that I just don’t trust the politicians who want to remake and put themselves themselves in charge of a $3.5 trillion industry. They messed up Obamacare – it is a complete mess. The reason why the repeal didn’t pass was because people don’t want it screwed up any more.
I trust politicians less than I trust CEOs of the healthcare companies. At least I know if the CEO of Cigna goes corrupt or incompetent, I know that in time, he will be replaced because he fails to perform.
But the politicians? How many members of congress have been there decades? Nancy Pelosi is in her 34th term in congress. She gave us the disaster that is Obamacare and yet here she is speaker of the house 10 years later. Jerry Nadler has been there 27 years. This impeachment inquiry has brought out ALL the old videos from 1998 from both sides taking completely opposite positions on the issue of impeachment. IT’S ALL THE SAME DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS they’re just 20 years older now. (for the record i was against impeachment in 1998 too). This is why 20 years later these SAME people are serving up revenge cold, literally, in their old advanced age, the last thing they want to do before they die is impeach a republican president as revenge for Clinton’s impeachment 20 years ago.
“You don’t think it’s a problem that the break rooms at Walmart has a poster on the wall directing employees how to apply for public aid?”
So every Walmart break room has these posters? This is corporate policy? Please provide a link.
“Take away those subsidies and employers would suddenly have to start offering higher pay and health insurance because the labor market would demand it, they wouldn’t be able to fill the jobs with natives.”
Yeah, that’s the narrative that makes no sense to me. So the assumptions here are that employees have the power to demand higher wages but are satisfied getting by with government supplements. If the supplements went away suddenly they would demand more money and they would get it. I don’t buy that one bit. In what universe do employees not demand higher wages if they can?
On the other hand…I think public transportation and government subsidized housing are absolutely corporate subsidies. They increases the supply of cheap labor. And that depresses wages.
How apropos:
https://news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-bad-day-health-195000630.html
“It was the kind of moment Boris Johnson has spent the entire U.K. election campaign trying to avoid. Confronted with a picture of a sick 4-year-old forced to sleep on the floor of a British hospital because of a shortage of beds, the prime minister looked away and tried to change the subject.
As the reporter, on camera, continued to try to show Johnson the picture on his phone, the prime minister refused to look, then took the device off him, stuck it in his own pocket, and tried to plow on with his prepared lines. Only when the reporter pointed this out did the prime minister finally look at the picture.
Johnson’s strategy in this campaign is to try to persuade voters who have traditionally backed the Labour Party that they ought to vote for his Conservatives. The fear has always been that something would happen that would remind them why they hadn’t voted Conservative in the past. The prime minister’s refusal to look at the picture might be that something.
It supports the opposition Labour Party’s core message that the Conservatives don’t care about the National Health Service and its users, and that a decade of spending constraints have left health and education in crisis.”
Yes, Labor’s “only we can fix the problem that we created. Socialized medicine.”
“On the other hand…I think public transportation and government subsidized housing are absolutely corporate subsidies. They increases the supply of cheap labor. And that depresses wages.”
—————————-
They also increase efficiency, and in the case of public transport at least, decrease environmental costs.
The problem is that if you mandate higher costs, in any form, you increase automation. Labor substitutes for capital, capital substitutes for labor.
The problem with Gary’s analysis is that we do, in fact, live in a society that has as its goals more than economic efficiency. There IS something terribly wrong with the optics of one of the world’s richest families encouraging workers to apply for welfare while fighting increased corporate and personal taxes to pay for those benefits. (I too recall reading about Walmart encouraging workers to sign up for government benefits, and also about closing departments in stores that voted to go union)
Let’s pay $15/hour. Let’s have single payer health care, a la Canada and the rest of the civilized world. Let the firms automate. Eventually the automation will cease because no one is buying their products.
I recall the no-doubt apocryphal tale of Henry Ford II taking the head of the UAW on a tour of Ford’s then-most-modern factory, with its rows and rows of robots. Ford allegedly remarked: “I’d like to see you unionize these,” to which the labor leader rejoined; “I’d like to see you sell them a car.”
In the meantime we can have cleaner air and fewer accidents with mass transit.
I won’t read every comment here. However, I will note that the man who legalized the most illegal immigrants ever with one signature was none other than Ronald Reagan. Look it up. Biggest amnesty of all time.
The administration that deported the most illegals? Barack Obama.
Maybe I should welcome you to the Democratic party.
Also – you support deporting the Dreamers? Even mainstream Republicans have tried to find a way to keep the Dreamers here. Heck, even Trump has! So your position is way far to the right of your party (and never mind the lack of empathy for these people who were brought here as babies and know no other home).
Maybe you should start a new chapter of the Know-Nothing Party.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Know-Nothing-party
“They messed up Obamacare – it is a complete mess.”
No, it’s not. And you saying it over and over again HD isn’t going to change a damn thing.
The Fifth Circuit may or may not throw it out anyway. And then what? The Republicans have NO answer on how to cover pre-existing conditions without the mandate. They have no answer on how to cover preventative care like mammograms. They have no plan to cover young adults up to the age of 26. They also have no plan to allow you unlimited coverage, instead of the $1 million cut off it used to be.
At least get in the game Republicans. At least show me a plan that says you even know what the issues are.
But there is none. Never has been. And that is why they fail (and will fail again in 2020.)
Americans are just sick of the insurance companies. No other civilized country in the world lives like this. None.
“Nancy Pelosi is in her 34th term in congress.”
No, her 34th YEAR, not term. She didn’t enter Congress until her late 40s.
The longest currently serving House member is Rep Dan Young. He’s a Republican who has been in office for 46 years. He might have been in there for Nixon!
“Low wage employers don’t have to pay for health insurance or even pay enough to feed a family because public aid fills in the gaps.”
“Public aid” is a word for what? Welfare?
Are you talking about welfare that the Republicans and Bill Clinton reformed over 25 years ago?
Sadly, many working people still are on SNAP because they don’t make enough and qualify to get help with food. Just ask the food banks in Chicago what is happening. The suburbs are WORSE than the city. Still really heavy demand for food. Look at all the kids on breakfast and lunches at school. Without it, they would go hungry.
I encourage everyone to support their local food pantry or an organization like the Chicago Food Depository.
“The Democrat party is kvetching right now that all the remaining candidates are White.”
But they’re not.
“AOC is the harbinger of things to come.”
This is the only thing of sense that you have EVER said helmethofer.
Yes, there will be more and more smart political women in the US Congress. In fact, one day, there will be a majority of women in the House and Senate. And a female President AND Vice President. All at the same time.
Imagine that.
“It turns out that those women and men who were against Suffrage had the predictions that turned out to be ACCURATE.”
And what is THAT?
That women could buy and sell property without having a male sign on the document?
That women could work, have their own bank accounts, their own assets, own stocks, bonds and real estate?
That women could run companies, be US Senators, Secretary of State and President of the United States?
Please helmethofer. You can do better than that.
You can tell Helmethofer doesn’t live in Chicago. How else to explain the new Mayor if white women are afraid of being “replaced”?
Ba ha ha.
I’ve never heard of such an absurd argument.
In fact, this is a good time to remind everyone, Helmethofer has NEVER lived in Chicago.
“So, I hope the white liberal women, who are being replaced by the AOCs of the world are happy being bitter, fat, and slaving away in an office drinking their Starbucks, wasting their prime years. So many end up single, or dealing with IVF bullsh!t and it’s just all a joke.”
Women don’t care helmethofer. This is why your stupid rants are comical. Why do you think the birth rate is falling so quickly in the US?
Nearly half of all women living in major cities in the United States are single. Many of those will marry but not have children. By choice. The average age to marry continues to rise, as well. When all your friends are single, there really isn’t any fear in still being single.
Millennials and GenZ women have a lot of freedoms. Why would they give those up?
Another reminder to everyone: helmethofer is on the older side. Baby Boomer or Silent Generation. Thank goodness so much has changed in the last 100 years.
“That’s the full freight un-subsidized cost.”
Some don’t get subsidized Fred. I know several that do not.
Family plan is $1400 a month. Plus deductibles etc. It’s like buying a new car. Every year. Imagine what the economy would be if all of that money was invested somewhere else? What a waste.
“I won’t read every comment here. However, I will note that the man who legalized the most illegal immigrants ever with one signature was none other than Ronald Reagan. Look it up. Biggest amnesty of all time.
The administration that deported the most illegals? Barack Obama.
Maybe I should welcome you to the Democratic party.”
This is true. And in hindsight, a HUGE mistake!
As for the D party – I’m not feeling Liz Warren’s policies!
“Let’s pay $15/hour. Let’s have single payer health care, a la Canada and the rest of the civilized world. Let the firms automate. Eventually the automation will cease because no one is buying their products.”
Did you see the article linked above about the Uk’s disastrous socialized health care system where there aren’t beds for babies. or have you seen the Cook County Health system that has $700,000,000 in bills. The window to go socialized medicine passed after WWII. We missed it. It ain’t never coming back. I along tens of millions of people will never, never ever ever, going to let Liz Warren or Bernie Sanders enact their revolution on a $3,500,000,000,000 a year industry. I saw what your party did to Obamacare, and it’s a disaster, despite Sabrina’s bubble claiming that everyone loves it. Sure, they love some provisions – like adult insured children to 26 and pre-existing conditions; but they hate the additional costs arising out of it. Obamacare was supposed to lower costs – it did the exact opposite, and put significant #’s of people into costly high deductible plans and jacked up premiums. The american people were practically begging congress to just leave it alone. As for Liz and Bernie fixing Obamacare – it’s another case of “Only I can fix the problem I voted to cause.” Heck no.
“Eventually the automation will cease because no one is buying their products.””
Lud·dite
/?l?d??t/
noun: Luddite; plural noun: Luddites
1.
derogatory
a person opposed to new technology or ways of working.
“a small-minded Luddite resisting progress”
2.
historical
a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woolen mills, that they believed was threatening their jobs (1811–16).
The average Chicago household is not paying more for health insurance than rent. I’m sure *some* are, but not most.
“I saw what your party did to Obamacare, and it’s a disaster”
The Dem’s didn’t screw up Obamacare; Mitch McConnell did.
It’s weird how half implemented legislation doesn’t work well.
I’m not a Warren fan either. She’s too far left for me. I could live with Biden or Bloomberg.
“Let’s have single payer health care, a la Canada and the rest of the civilized world.”
Again, nobody has explained how changing who pays for healthcare takes costs out of the system. However, if people really want a single payer system how about we allow all the insurance companies to merge until there is a single insurance company? I love Blue Cross. Let them be our single payer.
And I keep hearing the “rest of the civilized world” argument. Is that the standard by which we should change our policies? If so, I’ll prepare a list of other changes we should implement.
““The Democrat party is kvetching right now that all the remaining candidates are White.”
But they’re not.”
————————–
Sorry Sabrina, but the Democrats are. Look at this past weekend’s New York Times
“The window to go socialized medicine passed after WWII. We missed it.”
========================
Actually the Brits brought in single-payer after ww2. It’s a question of funding, not “working” — sing and dance all you want, but try to get rid of NHS in Britain or national care in Canada and even the critics of those systems will tar and feather you.
“Again, nobody has explained how changing who pays for healthcare takes costs out of the system. However, if people really want a single payer system how about we allow all the insurance companies to merge until there is a single insurance company? I love Blue Cross. Let them be our single payer.”
———————————-
Actually, Gary, the taking costs out of the system has been explained many times.
First, with one payer, you have one set of billing codes. Right now each insurer can have its own set of codes. That cuts down on productivity at the doctor’s office and therefore increases costs.
Second, private companies need marketing and all that other fluff in order to attain market share to spread overhead. Single payer doesn’t anywhere near the marketing private insurance does. Don’t believe me? I bet you saw a Blue Cross/Blue Shield television ad at least once in the past wee. You NEVER saw a Medicare ad on TV.
Third, insurance companies do not practice risk management, they practice risk avoidance. That’s why pre-existing conditions is such a big problem: Insurers don’t want the risk. That’ also why they have whole teams that will go over your application with a fine-toothed comb to find gossamer omissions and errors that will allow them to cancel your insurance once you file a really big claim.
Fourth, insurance companies need profits, so they need a return on investment for their shareholders. Medicare doesn’t have that burden.
If you had paid attention during the Obamacare fight, you would have learned that Medicare spends two percent of its money on administrative costs. T-W-O percent. Insurance companies spent about eighteen percent (18 percent, NINE times as much from revenue) on administration and profits.
So why is medicare for all so expensive? Because it’s bringing millions of new people under coverage. Once under coverage, and they start going to doctors and getting preventative care, not acute care in the emergency room, you will see a large drop in the cost per person. Yes, we will be spending more but that’s because there’ll be more people in the system, but the system will be light-years ahead in efficiency.
I rather get rid of the regulatory barriers first…
1) Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines unfettered
2) Decouple health insurance from employers. Anyone should be able to buy a policy regardless of employer and any tax benefit should go to that employee directly. This solves the portability problem. If employer still wants to subsidize they can do it through higher wages.
3) Need simple catastrophic policies. A big problem now is that we don’t really have insurance, but more prepaid health plans. Insurance is supposed to be protecting you from financially ruinous events, not paying for physicals, massages, etc. You need insurance when you break a leg, need surgery, etc. Insurance is not supposed to be paying for every little cough and wheeze.
As long as consumers are removed from the purchase decision for routine healthcare, there will be price inflation as consumers don’t have any incentive to shop since they aren’t the one’s paying for it directly.
We know free market works when barriers ware removed. This is why you can get a new butt, nose, teeth, and all manner of cosmetic surgery fairly cheaply nowadays. Lasik, $199/eye.
Imagine how expensive your car insurance would be if you could only get it through your employer, it paid for car washes, oil changes, and tire rotation, and you could only get it from a company located in your state. Not only that, when you took your car to Jiffy Lube, you had no idea how much the oil change costs, just that you had to pay $15 co pay.
Government interference is what caused this mess… so government can’t solve it.
“First, with one payer, you have one set of billing codes. Right now each insurer can have its own set of codes. That cuts down on productivity at the doctor’s office and therefore increases costs.”
~~~ your #1 argument is a consolidation of billing codes? CPT codes are pretty standardized, maybe one ins. company using a older version than other. No offense, but that’s a weak argument.
“Second, private companies need marketing and all that other fluff in order to attain market share to spread overhead. Single payer doesn’t anywhere near the marketing private insurance does. Don’t believe me? I bet you saw a Blue Cross/Blue Shield television ad at least once in the past wee. You NEVER saw a Medicare ad on TV.”
~~~ I see medicare part D and supplemental commercials all the time on TV but then again I watch a lot of boomer and greatest gen TV even though I’m Gen X. I also see a lot of enroll now in medicare TV commerials when you turn 65. They’re out there.
“Third, insurance companies do not practice risk management, they practice risk avoidance. That’s why pre-existing conditions is such a big problem: Insurers don’t want the risk. That’ also why they have whole teams that will go over your application with a fine-toothed comb to find gossamer omissions and errors that will allow them to cancel your insurance once you file a really big claim.”
~~~pre-existing conditions are now covered.
Fourth, insurance companies need profits, so they need a return on investment for their shareholders. Medicare doesn’t have that burden.
~~~Profits are bad? Riz himself said he’s not trying your liver tumor for anything less than $200k a year. I don’t blame him!
If you had paid attention during the Obamacare fight, you would have learned that Medicare spends two percent of its money on administrative costs. T-W-O percent. Insurance companies spent about eighteen percent (18 percent, NINE times as much from revenue) on administration and profits.
THIS IS A MYTH because administrative costs from tax collection,to DHS administration, to DOJ investigation of fraud, and so on and so on. Medicare actually spends more per beneficiary than private insurance https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/06/30/the-myth-of-medicares-low-administrative-costs/#6c412477140d
“So why is medicare for all so expensive? Because it’s bringing millions of new people under coverage. Once under coverage, and they start going to doctors and getting preventative care, not acute care in the emergency room, you will see a large drop in the cost per person. Yes, we will be spending more but that’s because there’ll be more people in the system, but the system will be light-years ahead in efficiency.”
This is truly naive to believe that the government is going to be efficient!
“Nearly half of all women living in major cities in the United States are single.”
LOL!! Losers.
Sabrina, you are oldest wrinkled dried-up fart around here. You probably are a cat lady.
Why are there IVF clinics everywhere now? Why do they have so many customers? Because everything I say is true, what you say is false. These women waste their prime years slaving away in offices “setting up meetings” as worthless middle-managers. Then they hit-the-wall in their early 30’s and scramble around to find a husband. Some succeed, many of these couples have to pay tens of thousands of dollars for “IVF” because the women are practically dried up and infertile.
Many others never get married. These women end up like Sabrina: nasty, bitter, fat and they cultivate raging hatred for those who succeeded in life. So the white women of this type “Nearly half of all women living in major cities in the United States” ended up sympathizers and collaborators with other haters and complainers. Orange Man is bad. Etc.
The fact that Chicago has a sexually perverted black female mayor is a sign of DECAY, not strength. It’s a manifest expression of the decline and stagnation of Chicago on the world’s stage. No healthy society or culture on-the-rise in history has ever been “led” by someone like a Lightfoot or a bunch of immoral and distasteful lesbian pervs.
“Maybe you should start a new chapter of the Know-Nothing Party.”
Do Jews like Dan #2 ever get tired of living a life of lies? Of being the world’s biggest hypocrites?
Dan #2 moved to Highland Park, as a racist self-segregator, because he didn’t want to raise his family around people of color. So he moved racistly in pure “white flight” fashion to a Jewish enclave. How can you lecture others about anything?
Furthermore, all these Jews support Israel which is the most racist “democracy” in the world. It has a huge concrete border wall and a Jim Crow system which discriminates against non-Jews. The Pals in the West Bank and Gaza are in the world’s largest concentration camps.
The Know-Nothings could only dream about creating a racist country like the Jews have built.
” I see medicare part D and supplemental commercials all the time on TV but then again I watch a lot of boomer and greatest gen TV even though I’m Gen X. I also see a lot of enroll now in medicare TV commercials when you turn 65. They’re out there.”
—————————-
Medicare supplements are private. They advertise to increase market share. You never saw an ad for Medicare itself.
==========================================
“~~~pre-existing conditions are now covered.”
—————————-
Only because of Obamacare, no thanks to the Repukes.
==========================================
“~~~Profits are bad? Riz himself said he’s not trying your liver tumor for anything less than $200k a year. I don’t blame him!”
—————————
i never said profits are bad. i just say that profits are an expense that single-payer health care avoids, which makes its costs lower.
=========================================
“This is truly naive to believe that the government is going to be efficient!”
—————————
If Medicare wasn’t more efficient than private insurance, then private insurers could offer general insurance to those over 65 and undercut Medicare?
As for administrative costs, re-read your Forbes article, this time for comprehension. Tax collection for Medicare revenue is efficient. We’re collecting taxes anyway, so the marginal cost of the collection for Medicare is almost zero, not the 20 percent claimed. The article itself said that Medicare had economies of scale that private insurers don’t have. Is that the fault of private insurers? No. It’s not Medicare’s problem either. As for ancillary government departments, you will find that companies refer fraud cases to the criminal justice system all the time. Shall we charge private insurers for doing so? Nope — that’s what general taxes are for.
Sing and dance all you want, but I defy you to give us even one example of a country that went to single payer health care and then went back due to public dissatisfaction and a desire to return to private insurance.
I’ll take helmethofer’s very personal rant against me and my religion for exactly what it is: The ravings of a mentally ill man who probably has no close friends and spends most of his time online trying to troll people.
It is a little disconcerting that he knows so much about me, I suppose, meaning my location (not why I moved there). I’d prefer not to be noticed by people like him, but I suppose he’s harmless as long as he’s not in the same room with someone.
By the way, we originally wanted to move to Evanston (which has a very diverse population), but couldn’t find the right place.
We chose HP over other North Shore suburbs because it actually is pretty diverse. It’s not just rich Jews, as helmethofer probably thinks. I’d say Jews are now outnumbered by non-Jews here. The Hispanic population from Highwood (which shares the high school with Highland Park) actually makes for quite a diverse environment. When our son graduated, I’d guess 20% of the graduates were Hispanic, judging from the names. Plenty of black people too.
I doubt someone like helmet would acknowledge this. He’s in his little bunker leaning over his laptop.
Dan #2:
At least you and I agree on one thing: HH is a scary bad person. He starts out making a good point in the first paragraph and then it just goes off into crazytown.
There’s an old saying that crazy people don’t have bad logic, they just have crazy premises. That’s HH.
that being said, as Tucker Carlson once said, there aren’t enough guys like him in the entire country to fill a sports stadium. Guys like him are nothing more than a boogeyman, they have no real political power and there are so few of them. I’m more scared of the crazy million women who went to DC to wear vag hats; and then a year later, stopped wearing them because ‘not all women have vags’. And because the organizer and speakers were all neo-nazi anti-semite bigots.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/01/18/debbie-wasserman-schultz-linda-sarsour-tamika-mallory-farrakhan-column/2602396002/
Then these same crazy ladies returned home and voted straight D on the 2018 ticket, and in Illinois, reelected Ed Burke (indicted), Rep Arroyo (indicted), Cullerton the cousin (indicted), Cullerton the retired (probably the mole and rat in the statehouse); and Madigan (about to be indicted).
“The fact that Chicago has a sexually perverted black female mayor is a sign of DECAY, not strength. It’s a manifest expression of the decline and stagnation of Chicago on the world’s stage. No healthy society or culture on-the-rise in history has ever been “led” by someone like a Lightfoot or a bunch of immoral and distasteful lesbian pervs.”
This is ridiculous. There are a million reasons not to like lightfoot – her caving to the CTU and her offensive and racist identity politics, or her toleration of the dirtbag hypocrite police chief, million reasons; but her personal life has nothing to do with it. She was the lesser of two evils – and the city recognized that by a 50 point margin. I’ll give her credit for trying. but her ‘identity’ has nothing to do iwith it – i actively ignore her identity when she tries to hype it up to the ‘in crowd’ for support. It’s completely irrelevant in my book.
Good response, HD. Her personal life, just like Emanuel’s and Daley’s, aren’t relevant.
“Her personal life, just like Emanuel’s and Daley’s, aren’t relevant.”
It does matter. A smart person doesn’t entrust their children, their city, or whatever else to a sexual pervert. Look how that’s worked out for the Boy Scouts recently. Lawsuits rivaling that of the Catholic Church which stupidly allowed homosexuals into its seminaries starting in the 1940s under pervert Cardinal Spellman. Bernardin was a sexual predator and his legacy is sexual abuse of innocents & lawsuit payouts, that’s all he’s produced. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scouts-america-may-file-bankruptcy-due-costs-sex-abuse-n947576
Only idiots still identify with LIbertarianism, HD, you’re stuck in the past. It’s not 2012 any more. When you let perverts into positions of power they will cause trouble and failure and produce financial losses.
HD, you wouldn’t care if the mayor was a drag queen? You’re such a whiny wimp.
PS Yeah Dan #2, you’re tagged so just own it. You moved to HP because you wanted to surrounded by your own race & religion. Period. Stop your mendacious excuses, just own up to your racism, it’s OK to want to self-segregate. Everyone does it. Look where the Clintons live. At least you didn’t try and BS and cover for Israel. Good for you on that.
Not sure why calling you, HD and Sabrina out makes me a “scary bad person”. She lies when she says I don’t live in Chicago or IL. It’s absurd.
“Not sure why calling you, HD and Sabrina out makes me a “scary bad person”. She lies when she says I don’t live in Chicago or IL. It’s absurd.”
Helmethofer does NOT live in Chicago. Trust me. He never has and never will.
As I’ve said before, no one lives somewhere they hate that much. Unless they’re in jail.
“I’m more scared of the crazy million women who went to DC to wear vag hats; and then a year later, stopped wearing them because ‘not all women have vags’.”
Wow! So now we’re getting “the women are all CRAZY.” How did they get the right to vote 100 years ago? My god. They are all CRAZY.
And they, gasp, vote Democratic. Because, you know, there are all those WOMEN in the Republican party. All those women Republican senators and congresswomen and judges being appointed to the federal courts.
Lol.
Such textbook misogyny.
It’s why the Republicans have lost the suburbs and will need decades to get them back. If they ever do.
“We chose HP over other North Shore suburbs because it actually is pretty diverse.”
This! I’m a big fan of HP myself and often refer new buyers up there because of its great housing stock and cute downtown. Plus, lots of bike trails, parks and beaches. I also love what they’ve done with the military base there. Great repurposing of that site.
But, remember, HH is not from Chicago. He doesn’t know. And he’s older. He’s still living in 1985.
“Why are there IVF clinics everywhere now? Why do they have so many customers?”
They don’t. Birth rates are way down. Women are choosing not to have kids. Nothing you can do about it HH.
“Helmethofer does NOT live in Chicago. Trust me. He never has and never will.”
Please. I drive by the new Michelle Obama mural on Milwaukee Ave near Des Plaines (just south of Richard’s Bar) ever single day on my way to the Jewel across from Blommer Chocolate. Anything else anyone want to test me on?
” “the women are all CRAZY.”
Have you seen the pictures of the HS and college kids that are taking part in all the Greta Thuneberg protests & brainwashing? Looks like 80% of them are CRZED women, with a few HD type wimps hanging around with them (thinking that will get them laid).
It’s so easy to find online pics like this below. The uniformity of the whole scene is embarrassing no matter if it’s USA or Europe or NZ/Australia.
They all look like this, crazy: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2019/06/12/world/12britain-climate/merlin_155344494_9324b630-78ca-4841-902e-5a58a9c72e39-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp
“Allow insurance companies to compete across state lines unfettered”
This is the oldest fake news out there.
They CAN!!!!
Nothing is stopping Aetna from operating in all 50 states. NOTHING. Yes, it has to get the approval from each state insurance commission but that’s not hard. It is simply choosing not to. And some of the states they expanded to after the ACA came into effect, they pulled out of after they couldn’t make a profit. That’s why some states only have one insurer again available under Obamacare. The insurers actually didn’t want the expanded market (ironically.) They were acting as the good profit-making private companies they are.
“Sorry Sabrina, but the Democrats are. Look at this past weekend’s New York Times”
Um…no. You are wrong. There are two candidates who are still in the race. There names are, um, Cory Booker and Andrew Yang.
Yeah- last I checked, they weren’t white.
“And I keep hearing the “rest of the civilized world” argument.”
Well Gary, I would take Mexico’s healthcare system too which is very affordable for people.
We need to take healthcare away from employers in this century. You should be in charge of your own coverage. You shouldn’t be penalized because your employer has crappy coverage. Imagine all the time businesses waste on providing health insurance. They have full time employees who just handle that issue. What a waste.
“but they hate the additional costs arising out of it.”
What are the additional costs of the ACA?
If you had insurance before Obamacare, you had the same insurance afterwards unless your company decided to change. Obamacare didn’t change anyone’s insurance except for those who didn’t have any. Then they HAD to buy it on the ACA exchange. But Mitch and friends got rid of that requirement, so now that doesn’t exist.
Costs are going up because the private insurers are doing what they do. They are in the business to make money. Why is this always conveniently left out of the discussion? So when the insurers had to cover everyone who didn’t have insurance, they had to make up the money somewhere else.
High deductibles are a recent phenomena that have come about after the ACA came into effect. It used to be very small percentage of plans had a $1,000 to $5,000 deductibles. Now it’s as many as 25% of the plans. That’s NOT insurance. The LA Times has had excellent coverage of this.
I think everyone here can agree that costs are skyrocketing. The ACA was supposed to control the cost increases, but it is not doing it.
So what are we going to do? Complain about it? This is the country that sent men to the moon and rovers to Mars. And we can’t figure out health insurance and how to keep costs down? Pulease.
Why do people want to keep a system that is clearly NOT working?
Let’s try something else. Other countries have great plans. It’s really not that hard. And it would unleash productivity and the creativity of this country like nothing we’ve seen in decades.
“Birth rates are way down. Women are choosing not to have kids.”
Nah. The girls are being deliberately culturally programmed to go off to college, slut it up for 4 years, while getting drunk too. Then they’re told to get a job in a hip urban location doing worthless corporate work (i.e. setting up meetings, or organizing powerpoint presentations, etc.).
They’re told this is rewarding. A few are even convinced to spend their careers pretending to be men, competing with men on high levels, but very few succeed on merit, percentage-wise. So the fairer, weaker sex — most of these girls waste their prime fertility years on worthless pursuits in sterile office environments, sitting on their butts for 8 hours each day. Instead of being a mother.
The birth rate is indeed down, because fertile women aren’t doing what their bodies are designed to do. They aren’t meant to waste their prime years of 21-32 sitting in an office doing worthless tasks, and drinking and slutting it up on their off hours.
So, then these women who’s bodies have been slutted up, pumped with thousands of bottles of Chardonnay, on birth control continuously for over a decade — they turn mid-30s and then their beauty is all gone, their wombs are a mess and dried up. Most men aren’t attracted to them and who wants to marry a 35 year old Sex in the City slut who’s had 100 men inside her? Ugh.
So, many of these women will never marry. They can make excuses that they “chose that”, but they’re lying. The others end up wasting their tiny savings (barely anything because urban liberal women spend) on IVF treatments, just to get a spaz or autistic kid because they are conceiving when old.
What will be a fitting end for these Crazy women is to end up alone in a subsidized nursing home, no kids of course, and then one of the care workers of the “diversity” background they championed their whole lives (over their own men) smothers them with a pillow, or let’s them lie in their own urine for days. There are horrible nursing home stories every single day in this country. That alone ought to scare some digngbat women into ditching their insane cultural views.
Sabrina, you have to own the pathetic situation women find themselves in today, because you believe it’s all a choice. I don’t think that true, however. I don’t think women are smart enough. No sane person would choose this life for themselves or a daughter. I think it’s been pushed upon you all by nefarious men, not virtuous ones. HD can fill in the conspiracy on his own. It’s no accident that we’re getting Trannies in libraries. This agenda is being pushed. The agenda pushed on women has been going on for a long time, with disastrous results.
Apropos of nothing, did you know you can use anti-plagarism software to determine the probability that 2 pieces of writing were written by the same person?
“Then they’re told to get a job in a hip urban location doing worthless corporate work”
You mean like being Congresswomen and running companies like StitchFix?
Lol.
Time to get in that time machine HH. Go back to 1900. Because time has passed you by.
Women are choosing not to have children. Nothing you, or any man, can do about it.
Our bodies. Our choice.
“So, many of these women will never marry.”
Statistics do not show this. Most people, men and women end up marrying, especially now that there is same sex marriage.
We do know that men and women are marrying at the latest they ever have. It’s 27 for women now and nearly 30 for men (those were the last numbers I saw.) I would not be surprised if it continues to go higher.
There is simply no reason to get married younger anymore. Women don’t need to marry for financial reasons anymore. Men have no incentive to either. Many have debt and are simply trying to get their financial lives in order.
Women are in the best position they could ever be in in the history of the world. 100 years ago this year the only state we could vote in was Maine. And now we can vote in all 50, we have women Senators, Congresswomen, judges, Governors and soon, President and Vice-President. Women run companies. They can buy property, including their own homes, and have investment accounts with million dollar 401ks.
Johnc,
If there were benefits to having fewer insurance companies then why does the government block their mergers? I’ll answer that for you and you can disagree if you want: because it’s not about a single payer. It’s about government payer. Let’s stop using euphemisms and call it what it is.
Now to the cost efficiencies…if Medicare has 2% admin and insurance companies have 15 – 18% (providers to large companies can have no more than 15% under Obamacare) then we’re talking about…what?…13% savings? Is that the savings we’re looking at? Because that is not the order of magnitude of savings that gets discussed when comparing us to the “rest of the civilized world”.
And looking at loss ratios doesn’t tell the whole story anyway. You’d have to look at the cost per covered individual for similar populations and we don’t have that data. So who the hell knows if Medicare would save money? And to be clear…just reimbursing less is not a system saving.
“What will be a fitting end for these Crazy women is to end up alone in a subsidized nursing home, no kids of course, and then one of the care workers of the “diversity” background they championed their whole lives (over their own men) smothers them with a pillow, or let’s them lie in their own urine for days.”
Women live longer than men. Go to any assisted living facility and the number of women living there outnumber men by 10 to 1.
That won’t matter if you’re married or not or if you have children or not. And having children doesn’t mean you die before them. Sadly.
Also, HH, your use of the term “nursing home” simply reveals your age as well. That industry has really changed. Not many people end up in a 1985 “nursing homes” anymore. That’s really only for the very end of life when dementia or severe disability are apparent. Mostly, the elderly are in independent living and then assisted living.
You’re usually living a long time if you need that level of care. Usually most are in their 80s, 90s, 100s. My grandfather was 96 when he had to go into the nursing home after suffering a stroke.
“Sing and dance all you want, but I defy you to give us even one example of a country that went to single payer health care and then went back due to public dissatisfaction and a desire to return to private insurance.”
For any number of reasons. Maybe their private insurance market wasn’t as good as ours to begin with. And switching from one system to the other is extremely difficult.
“If there were benefits to having fewer insurance companies then why does the government block their mergers?”
Antitrust. Duh. In some states there is only one insurance company. What do you think prices are doing there?
There really are just, what, four or five big guys now? UnitedHealth Group, CVS (Aetna), Humana and Centene. BlueCross is big in Illinois but not other states. Who else? There are probably a few smaller ones in various states. But there’s not exactly a ton of choice out there as it is.
HH,
As Homedelete said above, you have crazy premises. But not just a few. Hundreds of them. For instance:
“So, then these women who’s bodies have been slutted up (1), pumped with thousands of bottles of Chardonnay (2), on birth control continuously for over a decade (3)— they turn mid-30s and then their beauty is all gone (4), their wombs are a mess and dried up (5). Most men aren’t attracted to them (6) and who wants to marry a 35 year old (7) Sex in the City slut (8) who’s had 100 men inside her? (9) Ugh.”
Do you really believe all this shit? Where do these beliefs come from? Do you expect us to start believing your claims? I mean if you did I would suggest you start providing sources.
“Antitrust. Duh. In some states there is only one insurance company. What do you think prices are doing there? ”
Antitrust should not be an issue when there is a mandate that says your loss ratio has to be 80 – 85%.
“Such textbook misogyny. ”
I take offense to this Sabrina, I’ve NEVER made a misogynistic comment here. The million pink hear wearing women have ever right to be criticized for their march. It is not because they are women. I love republican women. In fact, most Republicans I know are actively rooting for Nikki Haley in 2024 over Pence.
Madeline:
Trust me, I’m not HH. I don’t know him, I’m not his friend. My posts tend to be fact based usually citing reliable sources. You can disagree with them but I’m not going off onto crazyland.
HH is basically cutting and pasting rants from incel boards. So yeah he’s probably plagiarizing a bit cutting and pasting from incel boards.
“If there were benefits to having fewer insurance companies then why does the government block their mergers? I’ll answer that for you and you can disagree if you want: because it’s not about a single payer. It’s about government payer. Let’s stop using euphemisms and call it what it is.”
——
“For any number of reasons. Maybe their private insurance market wasn’t as good as ours to begin with. And switching from one system to the other is extremely difficult.”
———
“High deductibles are a recent phenomena that have come about after the ACA came into effect. It used to be very small percentage of plans had a $1,000 to $5,000 deductibles. Now it’s as many as 25% of the plans. That’s NOT insurance. The LA Times has had excellent coverage of this. ”
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The top two snippets are from Gary, the third from Sabrina.
Let’s take high deductibles and premiums first. There is only one cause for this: pre-exisiting conditions are now covered. This means that the old insurance model of avoiding risk, instead of managing risk, no longer worked. Under our old system of health care, the reasonably healthy had low premiums and deductibles, and the unhealthy were uninsurable. You had good insurance for most and the abyss for others.
Now, we have always had universal provision of health care — even bums on the street get treated. The ONLY question is how to pay for it. So what happens to the uninsurable, the ones with pre-existing conditions? Several things. Many times, they simply died rather than getting medical care and having their scarce funds eaten up with medical bills. More often, they got the care, went bankrupt, and the losses were then spread to the rest of us by doctors and hospital factoring losses into their prices for all services. Finally, most of them would eventually go on Medicaid, where their medical costs are borne by general taxes.
Note that bankruptcy and Medicaid spread the costs onto a wider group of people: The general public. Single payer health care does the same thing. It does so, however, with less use of the emergency room, which is the least efficient and most expensive way of delivering health care.
As for there being benefits to having fewer health insurers then why deny their mergers — Gary, I never said there were benefits to having fewer health insurers. Given that private insurers seek profits and therefore indulge in monopoly pricing, there would never be an advantage to having fewer insurers. Medicare and Medicaid cut the cost of profits out of the system. Yes, Medicare and Medicaid are government payer. No one has ever denied that. And so what? Medicare is a more efficient system, and it does it without destroying the lives of the uninsurable.
Like I said before, Gary, society is more than economic efficiency, and even there, given the lost productivity and mis-allocation of resources the uninsurable have to live with, I question the economic efficiency of the private insurance system.
As for why you can’t name a single country that has gone to single payer (government payer if you prefer): Gary, you grab at straws with no evidence whatsoever. Here’s the facts: Single/government payer systems are popular. Why are they popular? Because they work better than private insurance systems.
Just ask anyone with a pre-existing condition.
““So, then these women who’s bodies have been slutted up (1), pumped with thousands of bottles of Chardonnay (2), on birth control continuously for over a decade (3)— they turn mid-30s and then their beauty is all gone (4), their wombs are a mess and dried up (5). Most men aren’t attracted to them (6) and who wants to marry a 35 year old (7) Sex in the City slut (8) who’s had 100 men inside her? (9) Ugh.””
This is really just a hyperbolic cynical view of a certain subset of white, liberal urban women. I mean, sure, there are probably some promiscuous single mid-30’s women in Lakeview with substance abuse problems.
But HH’s bad premise here is his confirmation biases based on where he claims to live. The reality HH doesn’t see as he drives past Michelle’s mural on Des Plaines Ave is that red state republicans have far, far more children than blue state liberals. It’s not even close. The fertility rate in red states is off the charts. Although the fertility rate is falling precipitously, it’s the red states that are having all the children. You can google this yourself, there’s countless links and articles about it going back to at least 2006.
“Here’s the facts: Single/government payer systems are popular. Why are they popular? Because they work better than private insurance systems.”
No offense, but your arguments in favor of single payer read like a Liz Warren talking points memo. I didn’t know that popularity was the criteria for deciding to how structure a health care system. Medicaid patents LOVE their health care – because it’s free. because who doesn’t like free!!! https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/07/10/536448362/survey-says-medicaid-recipients-like-their-coverage-and-care Being on Medicaid still sucks, but it’s free!! NO co pays for anything, what’s not to like? Even though many doctors won’t take medicaid, medicaid won’t pay for a lot of medications, and it routinely denies treatments. It’s not good but its free so they’re super happy with it!
The reality is that I don’t want Liz Warren or Bernie Sanders telling me that they’re going to fix my health insurance. I don’t trust them, nothing they tell me will trust them, and I don’t believe a word either of them say.
The system is not perfect – it has many flaws; as do single payer systems around the world. We are more of a hybrid system – Medicare and Medicaid cover large numbers of people and most others are covered under private insurance, with a percentage that are uninsured. And COBRA sucks if you lose your health insurance in a bad economy.
But single payer has its problems too. It is undeniable that there long waits, even in Canada. Those long waits mean that rich people that pay privately get quicker, concierge service, while the rest of us chumps in the system have to wait like everyone else. I just had surgery a few months ago with my private insurance, and my wait time was no more than a few weeks because I had private insurance. The other issue is death panels – which are real – as government mandated rationing of healthcare services will occur.
ACA tried to fix those gaps with medicaid expansion – and the problem with that was the expense. IIRC the feds paid medicaid expansion for some time but then it was offloaded on the states, and medicaid patients are the most unhealthy and most expensive patients to treat. Preventative treatment doesn’t stop the obese lady from drinking 2 big gulps a day – I have extended family members who live this lifestyle.
But nobody – not on the right or the left – want to have an honest discussion about fixing the system and lowering costs. Republicans have this belief that revoking the ACA will suddenly make return to 2006 prices; and progressives like you believe that making one payer for everyone is suddenly going to fix the costs. but that’s crazy – we saw what happened when the federal government took over the student loan lending industry – the total amount borrowed and the costs of colleges starting increasing faster than ever before! Student loan lending went from $150 Billion to over $1 trillion during Obama’s term, when he nationalized the student loan lending system. (of note, don’t forget student loan interest paid by borrower goes…in part…to subsidize ObamaCare. This is a fact. Google it.
“But single payer has its problems too. It is undeniable that there long waits, even in Canada. Those long waits mean that rich people that pay privately get quicker, concierge service, while the rest of us chumps in the system have to wait like everyone else. I”
——————–
Nobody ever said that single payer didn’t have problems. Quit shucking and jiving however, and ask the Canadians if they want to eliminate single payer. Ditto Britain, France, and anywhere else. You want concierge service? Sure, go to the head of the line. At least under single payer the uninsurable are in line, which they weren’t before.
What fries me (in addition to people saying that Bucktown goes South of Armitage) is people saying that because government is involved, therefore a system “must” be inferior to a non-government system. That not analysis, it’s ideology, and I’m tired of paying through the wazoo for some twit’s demonstrably wrong ideology.
Single payer IS more efficient than the for-profit private insurance system we have now. If anybody wants to whine to the contrary, then he’ll have to tackle head on the cost to, and of, the previously uninsurable in this Country.
“Nobody ever said that single payer didn’t have problems. Quit shucking and jiving however, and ask the Canadians if they want to eliminate single payer. Ditto Britain, France, and anywhere else.”
Did you see my link from above? Ask medicaid patients if they want to eliminate medicaid, they’ll all say “no” because they’re happy with their free healthcare! Talk about bias!
Using this same logic against your argument, guess what else? Only 41% of voters want to replace private health insurance with medicare for all. It’s deeply unpopular to eliminate private insurance. Why would you want to do something so unpopular?
Stop schucking and jiving, ask americans if they want their private health care insurance replaced with medicare for all, the overwhelming answer, by 20 points, is NO! See how polls work?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/medicare-for-all-isnt-that-popular-even-among-democrats/
It’s also disingenuous to say that its ideology because government runs a problem, it must be bad. As I pointed above: roughly $150 Billion in student loans in 2008 when Obama took office. In 2010, Obama made student loans ‘single lender’ kinda like single payer. *Every* Republican in Congress voted against the bill.
AND look what happened – outstanding student loans today are well over a $1 Trillion Dollars! Student loans are a complete disaster entirely under a Democrat government plan…Everyone know this, it is an entirely Democrat owned problem. Your party owns the student loan debt crisis. Republicans didn’t give it even one single vote.
But wait, like the good easily tricked Democrat voter (orange man bad, so bad!!), the same party who gave you the student loan crisis, are here to say, like Sanders and Warren both say “Only we as Democrats can fix the very same student loan crisis that we created in 2010 with our bill to make student loans ‘single lender.”
And you’re telling me that my ‘government screws things up’ belief is ideology? I’m a Gen X’er, you must be a millenial, because only a millenial would be naive enough to see evidence BEFORE YOUR LYING EYES – both of ObamaCare and Student Loans – and you stupidly – yes, you are the low information stupid voter – continue to vote for the same people who screwed it up for you in the first place?
Please, research my facts above, stop reading Vox, and realize you are trusting the same Democrats to fix the very same problems they alone created. And you will naively check all Democrat boxes again.
I’m a boomer, actually. Minimized my student loans with GI bill and studying hard enough to get scholarships.
As for the link — the article was in the NYT — The opposition comes from people who like their private employer plans and who don’t want to step into the unknown. You see, I read for comprehension, not headlines. And I’m still waiting for someone to tell me that Canada WANTS to give up its national health care system.
Ditto the Medicaid recipients: You failed to note that resistance declines when they are told the substitute is full Medicare, and eliminates entirely when told that single-payer has no deductibles and co-pays either. Even means-tested Medicare comes out better.
I won’t deny that it’s nice to live near fellow Jewish people. I once lived in a town where I was practically the only Jew. Not my favorite experience.
But we also liked HP because of its diversity, lakefront, downtown, easy train commute downtown, affordable (sort of) housing, etc.
Nothing wrong with wanting to live near people like yourself, I agree, HH. But you obviously have a problem with Jews (and women, and blacks etc.), which you really should seek therapy for.
“Please, research my facts above, stop reading Vox, and realize you are trusting the same Democrats to fix the very same problems they alone created. And you will naively check all Democrat boxes again.”
And the Republican plan to fix these things is?
(crickets)
“Please. I drive by the new Michelle Obama mural on Milwaukee Ave near Des Plaines (just south of Richard’s Bar) ever single day on my way to the Jewel across from Blommer Chocolate. Anything else anyone want to test me on?”
Once again, HH does NOT live in Chicago. Never has. Thank goodness.
Anyone can get info about any city on the Internet. Easypeasy.
“Given that private insurers seek profits and therefore indulge in monopoly pricing, there would never be an advantage to having fewer insurers. Medicare and Medicaid cut the cost of profits out of the system.”
Again, as I pointed out above, Obamacare mandates an 80/ 85% loss ratio so outsized profits are not allowed. You’re talking about MAYBE a 13 – 15% savings. That’s not of the order of magnitude of what people are concerned about. All discussions center around data like this: https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#item-relative-size-wealth-u-s-spends-disproportionate-amount-health where we spend almost twice of what is normal for “every other civilized country”
Also, what comparisons have been done between the care covered by Medicare vs. the care covered by private insurance? I’m not aware of any. And I know that something like 10 – 15% of doctors won’t take Medicare patients and another slice limit the percentage they take.
“given the lost productivity and mis-allocation of resources the uninsurable have to live with, I question the economic efficiency of the private insurance system.”
And Obamacare provided for insurance for the uninsurable. One of my daughters is getting it.
“As for why you can’t name a single country that has gone to single payer (government payer if you prefer): Gary, you grab at straws with no evidence whatsoever. Here’s the facts: Single/government payer systems are popular.”
Show me the data on a country that made the switch. Show me what they had before and show me that they became happier. When I travel I run into Canadians and I always ask them about their health care. I could tell you the horror stories because I took notes. Seriously. I took notes.
johnc,
Thank you for your service. I know that you and I differ politically, but I can honestly say that I’ve never met a service member that I didn’t like and get along with. I fly an american flag in front of my house.
“When I travel I run into Canadians and I always ask them about their health care.”
Why? Is this a topic?
No one likes their own healthcare system. But at least they have one. You don’t go broke or die without getting proper care in Canada.
The British hate their system too which is now an election issue, apparently. But my American friends who have used it LOVED it and thought it was wonderful (and this was as recently as a year ago).
In France, they were still sending doctors for home visits a decade ago. Do they still do that? Wow.
“And the Republican plan to fix these things is?”
I think they’ve learned their lesson not to F it up any more than it already is; with some minor changes around the edges. It’s only the Democrats who want a complete revolution of the way we are delivered healthcare.
How many people will die in the transition to single payer? I don’t know, I don’t want to find out.
“This is really just a hyperbolic cynical view of a certain subset of white, liberal urban women.”
No. Sabrina’s comment started the discussion. ““Nearly half of all women living in major cities in the United States are single.”
LOL, and Sabrina tries to convince us all that these ugly, fat, liberal, drunk, slutty, bad attitude women are all: “Senators, Congresswomen, judges, Governors and soon, President and Vice-President. Women run companies. They can buy property, including their own homes, and have investment accounts with million dollar 401ks.”
Hahahahahahahaaaa!!!!! Yeah, maybe 1 in 20,000. The rest of them are angry, shrill, bitter leftovers in the mating game, and then they get really angry and collaborate with the enemies of healthy culture and families (e.g. LGBT perverts and HIV+). Women have been sold down the river. If a “equality” raging, white male hating liberal female gets in trouble with a black “youth” on a CTA train, why should this superwoman expect any chivalry or help, when she’s a wannabe dyke marching against white men and the police?
“Do you really believe all this shit? Where do these beliefs come from? Do you expect us to start believing your claims? I mean if you did I would suggest you start providing sources.”
Looks like I hit a nerve with Gary. Worried what your daughter has been up to all these years, and living so far away? Wonder if she’ll waste her youth and end up a shrill single person? I hope not. But the math that Sabrina sourced doesn’t lie.
“Anyone can get info about any city on the Internet.”
Ha, busted. Google streetview doesn’t have the mural up. But it’s up, right on the building with the new Korean BBQ across from Pickens Kane.
“but I can honestly say that I’ve never met a service member that I didn’t like”
I used to think that. But I know some guy from the Air Force, who never fought, doesnt know how to fly, but spent his time in “cyber-warfare” stuff sitting on his ass. This guy isn’t a real vet like we’re used to, he’s a little sh!thead actually.
“which you really should seek therapy for.”
Sorry, but neuroses are a problem with your people, not the rest of the world.
“In fact, most Republicans I know are actively rooting for Nikki Haley in 2024 over Pence.”
Preposterous. You are one weird suburban wimp HD.
Lastly, not sure why you are arguing about people ending up in Skilled Nursing or Dementia Care (better RE terms?). People end up in these, and if the woman is single, never married, with no offspring, and without wealth … oftentimes they up in less-than-ideal environments with nobody to truly care about them. Talk about the worst situation for a woman who didn’t become a CEO or a Senator after trying so hard. Geesh.
““When I travel I run into Canadians and I always ask them about their health care.”
Why? Is this a topic?”
Yeah, I bring it up because I’m curious if it lives up to its hype. It doesn’t.
“No one likes their own healthcare system”
Talk to Johnc
HH,
More vile, incoherent, unsubstantiated shit.
“Looks like I hit a nerve with Gary. Worried what your daughter has been up to all these years, and living so far away? Wonder if she’ll waste her youth and end up a shrill single person?”
No. The older one in SF is married and just another example of how you are wrong about almost everything. She’s wicked smart and had a high paying job before quitting to become a writer. The same is true of many of her friends. And I have a really good sense of what my daughters are up to. I know their values.
I see you avoided answering any of my questions.
https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/sex-and-the-city-author-candace-bushnell-regrets-not-having-kids-says-she-was-truly-alone
I’m sure HH read this one article about the sex and the city author who “regrets not having kids, says she was ‘truly alone'”
Then he goes off on tangents about a small subset of people who live on the north side of Chicago.
Not sure why HH even lives in Chicago; he’d probably fit in better somewhere like Grundy or LaSalle County or something. He can rage about the freaks in Chicago at the biker bar with his biker buddies in downtown Ottawa.
“And I have a really good sense of what my daughters are up to. I know their values.”
Congratulations Gary. I mean it. But all you have to do is look around Chicago and other urban cities to see that MOST single girls aren’t so lucky. So, I care about everyone including those girls sold a bag of BS. Why don’t you?
Here look closely at this entire story HD (and everyone): https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7783885/College-student-18-stabbed-death-group-thugs-walking-park.html
Here was a young girl with her whole life ahead of her (ready & trained to “fight the patriarchy”) at Barnard in NYC. About to launch a life of hating white heterosexual men and cops, marching for every brainwashed cause — and look what happened to her? Killed by a member of the wonderful diversity, but not the patriarchy. Ironic. Sad and tragic, but ironic. She needed a better Boomer-father (very hard to find), like Gary, I guess.
HD: Why should Americans give our cities? You already fled, so don’t lecture others to flee outside of Chicago, OK? You’re the man of flight who couldn’t hack it in Chicago.
“Show me the data on a country that made the switch. Show me what they had before and show me that they became happier. When I travel I run into Canadians and I always ask them about their health care. I could tell you the horror stories because I took notes. Seriously. I took notes.”
—————————–
I’m sure you did, Gary, and I’m sure the Canadians told you lots of absolutely true horror stories. But did you ask them the only relevant question to the discussion here: “Does Canada want to get rid of its single-payer national health care system?”
Ask THAT question. I guarantee you that they’ll tell you that for all its problems and flaws (like the Brits and national health service), they’ll keep it and not go back to a private-insurer dominated system.
Johnc,
Canadians would have no basis for answering that question. They transitioned in the 50s and I have no idea what they had before. Do you think most Canadians would know what they had before? And how the heck do you make a transition like that? I probably wouldn’t want to transition there either.
“Canadians would have no basis for answering that question. They transitioned in the 50s and I have no idea what they had before. Do you think most Canadians would know what they had before? And how the heck do you make a transition like that? I probably wouldn’t want to transition there either.”
======================
Gary, there are plenty of Canadians who would remember life before the transition, and everyone can see what a state America’s system is in, especially pre-Obamacare. So the fact that they don’t want to give up single payer national health care when the “benefits” of insurer-dominated health care are literally right next door says a lot.
So stop speculating and just admit it: No country has ever gone back from single payer health care, and if yoou look at the opinion polls, it is because they like it too much. Much more than private insurance.
“She needed a better Boomer-father (very hard to find), like Gary, I guess.”
Her father would likely be GenX. This young lady was GenZ.
You are OLD Helmethofer. You don’t even know who is in what generation anymore.
The world has passed you by. Leave it for the rest of us who enjoy living in it.
“Not sure why HH even lives in Chicago;”
He doesn’t. Don’t worry.
“The rest of them are angry, shrill, bitter leftovers in the mating game, and then they get really angry and collaborate with the enemies of healthy culture and families”
So. Much. Fear.
It’s because of HH that women didn’t get the right to vote until 100 years ago and couldn’t buy their own home until 50 years ago. But that has all changed now.
And he’s scared as hell.
“I think they’ve learned their lesson not to F it up any more than it already is; with some minor changes around the edges.”
Wait a minute, they tried to repeal Obamacare without a plan to replace it like 100 times. Even as I type this, they are still working to get it thrown out in the Federal Courts. That’s not “minor changes around the edges.” Previous conditions protections? Poof. Gone. Preventative doctors visits? Poof. Gone. Kids under 26 on the insurance? Poof. Gone.
How many will die in the transition to single payer? I don’t know, how many died when Medicare launched? What a stupid question.
How many are dying right now with no access to ANY insurance? There’s a reason states continue to add Medicaid expansion. In Arkansas early deaths have actually declined thanks to expansion whereas in Texas, where people still can’t go to the hospital, it’s worse than ever.
Johnc,
” No country has ever gone back from single payer health care, and if yoou look at the opinion polls, it is because they like it too much.”
You are operating on an enormously false premise: that lack of change means support. If that were true then we could conclude that Maduro, Saddam Hussein, and the Iranian government are/ were broadly supported.
“And he’s scared as hell.”
Scared of what? Unmarried, (likely obese) shrill cat ladies like you? You cling to Feminism as a crutch because you failed in the mating game. Keep on believing that you’re happy, lol. Don’t have nightmares thinking about how you’l meet your end in that dementia care ward all alone with no kids to hold your hand.
Who cares if the dead slut’s dad was Boomer or Gen X? Practically the same thing. Here was the green-haired little future hateful angry bigot: https://nypost.com/2019/12/12/tessa-majors-brother-shares-emotional-tribute/
Snuffed out by the diversity she was brainwashed to worship. It’s ironic that she’s dead by the people she was trained to like more than her own people who don’t commit crimes against women. It’s really no loss to society that a FUTURE HATER won’t be able to spew all the garbage she’s been prepped to do. Her father failed her on all levels, didn’t teach her virtues, and is partly responsible for her demise.
I’m surprised that people like helmethofer actually exist in our modern society. So brave behind a keyboard, yet will say nothing in public where he can be held accountable to his words?
How’s life as a coward?
HH..
come on man. she was just a kid. take a break from the fury sometimes.
“You are operating on an enormously false premise: that lack of change means support. If that were true then we could conclude that Maduro, Saddam Hussein, and the Iranian government are/ were broadly supported.”
——————————
No, Gary, the programs are popular, even as they are railed against. Changing health care systems in Europe or Canada or Japan is not going to send armed goons to your door in the dead of night and you know it. Sing and dance all you want, but NOBODY in those countries is advocating getting rid of single-payer and going to a private-insurer-dominated system. N-O-B-O-D-Y.
Yes, people want changes — usually more funding for the NHS in Britain, for example, but they support single-payer systems. The opinion polls have been too consistent for too many decades: People prefer single-payer, AND it’s more efficient.
HH:
You’re fucking nuts dude. She was attacked by, and fought back against, a pack of feral 13 year olds. What is wrong with you? Do you have no shame? I get you’re trolling, but seriously, this isn’t even trolling, it’s just nuts.
“I get you’re trolling, but seriously, this isn’t even trolling, it’s just nuts.”
Yep. Disgusting.
“Don’t have nightmares thinking about how you’ll meet your end in that dementia care ward all alone with no kids to hold your hand.”
If I have dementia, I’m not remembering who my kids are, or if I even had any. Sorry to say. It won’t be relevant one way or the other.
Your argument is a dumb one. At least you can come up with something better than the old “you’ll die alone with dementia in a nursing home” argument. Jeez. But maybe there IS no other argument about why women MUST have children? No one talks about all the men without children. They die alone too. And no one talks about those who had kids, and tragically, lost them. I guess they’ll die alone too.
I have kids HH but I’m not expecting them to hold my hand in the nursing home.
Also, with globalization now the odds that your children will even live close to you are slim. They could be in London, Hong Kong, Sydney or who knows where. There’s not going to be any hand holding by those children living their lives.
“But maybe there IS no other argument about why women MUST have children?”
My children will be paying for your social security and medicare. It’s only fair, equitable and equal justice that you have children to pay for mine. Immigration is not a viable alternative as natives children of upper middle class citizens far out earn half a dozen or more immigrants in their life time.
If Social security wasn’t a Ponzi scheme we wouldn’t have to worry about birth rates. We need to move it to a fully funded pension system. Medicare should also be fully funded by the individual. Because these social programs depend on an expanding pyramid countries are encouraging reproduction when the planet would be better off with fewer people. So these Ponzi schemes are bad for the planet.
“If Social security wasn’t a Ponzi scheme we wouldn’t have to worry about birth rates. We need to move it to a fully funded pension system. Medicare should also be fully funded by the individual. Because these social programs depend on an expanding pyramid countries are encouraging reproduction when the planet would be better off with fewer people. So these Ponzi schemes are bad for the planet.”
———————————-
The Ponzi scheme is in the financing. Changes like removing the cap on the amount of income subject to Social Security taxes — but not altering benefits — reduces the problem. The use of general taxes and estate taxes also eliminates the problem.
“I’m surprised that people like helmethofer actually exist in our modern society. So brave behind a keyboard, yet will say nothing in public where he can be held accountable to his words?
How’s life as a coward?”
Pot meet Kettle
“JohnnyU on December 16th, 2019 at 9:00 am
“I’m surprised that people like helmethofer actually exist in our modern society. So brave behind a keyboard, yet will say nothing in public where he can be held accountable to his words?
How’s life as a coward?”
Pot meet Kettle”
I’m sure he says this stuff in public too. You just don’t know him or people like him. And if you called him out about his comment in public, he’d probably beat you down too. He’s not a coward, he’s just nuts.
“Because these social programs depend on an expanding pyramid countries are encouraging reproduction when the planet would be better off with fewer people.”
Which countries?
Most of those with these social programs are the industrialized countries. Those are the very ones with falling birth rates. All of Europe has been falling. Japan is awful. China is another horrible one. And now the US is falling too.
“Immigration is not a viable alternative as natives children of upper middle class citizens far out earn half a dozen or more immigrants in their life time.”
Immigration is a great option HD.
We don’t just need immigration for SS though. We need immigrants to infuse energy into the country, bring ideas, bring ambition.
And SS underfunding can be solved simply by making the upper middle class pay what the middle class has to pay: 6%.
Sabrina, we don’t need low wage, low skilled immigrants to infuse the country, bring ideas and ambition. We have more foreign born people living in the United States than at any point in the last century. How many more immigrants do you want? Do those who want to curtail immigration have a say any more in how they want to live? America accepts 25% of all the worlds immigrants despite being 2 or 3% of the world’s population. What is the perfect number of immigrants. Oh wait, I already know your answer: As many as it takes so the Republicans never hold power again. That’s really what you mean when you claim to want more immigrants. It’s OK to say it out loud now.
“I’m sure he says this stuff in public too. You just don’t know him or people like him. And if you called him out about his comment in public, he’d probably beat you down too. He’s not a coward, he’s just nuts.”
HD, you are such a wimp. You think you’re great, but you’re like the driver on the Kennedy who hates everyone driving slower than you, but simultaneously thinks that anyone who passes you is a “maniac”. You’re so tiresome.
Stop sticking up for that NYC slut. Her death was not necessary, but it is NO LOSS to society. She was an evil, hateful, bigoted wench at the age of 18. There was no hope that she could have been rehabilitated into a productive or positive person. Her death simply means that she won’t be able to push her poison on others, which is a good thing for humanity. Her father totally failed her, pumped her up with far-left idiocy (and hate) and now she’s gone. He is partly to blame.
Did you see her vast social media posts, before you white-knight for such an ugly and vicious beast of a female?
And before some loser complains about the website, it’s the PICS that are worth 1,000 words. What a evil little beast:
https://ussanews.com/News1/2019/12/15/murdered-nyc-college-student-tessa-majors-was-a-radical-leftist-trying-to-score-drugs-before-stabbing-according-to-sba/
“We need immigrants to infuse energy into the country, bring ideas, bring ambition.”
LOL! I guess we do need some new females since all the American women today are wasting their time working worthless office jobs, “setting up meetings”, drinking bottles of Chardonnay and packs of White Claw, contracepting, aborting their own offspring, “travelling”, and then failing at finding a man, or failing at IVF($$$), and then getting fat as pigs.
But honestly, only Asian women are any better. All the Third World immigrant women are fat.
“Japan is awful.”
You’re crazy. Japan will be just fine without listening to Sabrina. They are leading the world in robotics and many other technologies, and they still have a country that America could’ve been: First World.
“Most of those with these social programs are the industrialized countries. Those are the very ones with falling birth rates. All of Europe has been falling. Japan is awful. China is another horrible one. And now the US is falling too.”
so fucking what? god forbid we have fewer morons on this planet
Japan is fucking fantastic. Full of Japanese people who give a damn about their country. Its clean, polite, organized, respectful, who gives a fuck about some arbitrary GDP numbers and fiat currency inflation rates.