Renovated Pre-War Co-Op Returns and is Now Reduced $189K: 3500 N. Lake Shore Drive
We last chattered about this 4-bedroom vintage co-op at 3500 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview in May 2009.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
In May 2009, the unit had just returned to the market after being completely renovated with new millwork, new marble in the common entry foyer, new wiring, space pac cooling installed, an in-unit washer/dryer and a completely new kitchen with limestone counter tops, SubZero and Wolf appliances.
You can see some before and after pictures in the prior chatter.
The unit never sold and was withdrawn from the market.
It recently returned and has now been reduced by $189,000.
It also has been staged, with more furniture, artwork and painted walls.
Jennifer Ames at Coldwell Banker now has the listing. See the pictures and floorplan here.
Unit #2C: 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, 3500 square feet
- I couldn’t find an original price
- Was listed in May 2008 for $315,000
- I still can’t find a sales price for the 2008 transaction
- Was listed in May 2009 at $849,900
- Withdrawn
- Currently listed at $660,000
- Assessments of $3119 a month (includes real estate taxes, building mortgage, cable, electricity, doorman)
- Taxes of $8833
- Co-op
- Now has space pac
- Now has in-unit washer/dryer
- Rental parking for $245 a month next door
stunning, but those assessments stunned me. do they seem a tad high to live in lakeview… gold coast ok, but lakeview?
when discussing assessments, remember that this is a co-op and not a condo
“when discussing assessments, remember that this is a co-op and not a condo”
When discussing $3,119 per month, remember that it is $3,119 per month.
“when discussing assessments, remember that this is a co-op and not a condo”
$2400/month is still a hefty assessment. JA could have done a better description of the inclusions, as other listings note that the assessment includes all except cooking gas and phone.
5c (no pix) is pending at $365k. Is the reno worth $300k plus loss of three floors? I’m b/t maybe and probably.
“When discussing $3,119 per month, remember that it is $3,119 per month.”
Jon, thats why i am proud to call you my intertube CC friend, keep the good stuff coming groove had a rough day.
“When discussing $3,119 per month, remember that it is $3,119 per month.”
but $736 of that is tax deductible!
Why anybody would want to live in a co-op is crazy to me. What is the upside?
Per the last chatter (which listed assessments at $2309) there’s an $800 special assessment for eight years (not sure when it started). It’s the nicest apartment I’ve seen recently at this price point. No parking a bit of negative. Nettelhorst school a bit of a plus.
“Why anybody would want to live in a co-op is crazy to me. What is the upside?”
no damn dirty renters sharing the same elevator as you?
Wow, fabulous place, but holy hell $3,119/month.
Can someone explain the building mortgage? How much does building owe? Has a huge impact on value here.
Keep your stinking paws away from me, you damn dirty renter!
Who knew co-op owners could speak!
So, if you sell your co-op, do you get anything for what you’ve put toward the building’s mortgage? I don’t get co-ops, I guess.
The monthly nut on this place with two not-even-in-the-building parking spots and NOT including the mortgage is $4,345.08! That’s $52,140.96 per year, folks. That would pay the taxes on a North Shore mansion. It would also cover the mortgage on a million dollar pad.
Co-ops are massive sucks, it’s all the problems of a condo with much more liability exposer and 5 times the cost.
Not only that, but going off the ad, I’ll take “bright, tree line views” to mean this place faces northwest into some trees. We know from the pictures that the kitchen looks right into the fire escape.
You could live anywhere in Chicagoland for what this place effectively costs. They should be giving this place away. Did I mention it’s in Lakeview? Gag me.
“do you get anything for what you’ve put toward the building’s mortgage?”
You get to sell a unit in a building that isn’t falling apart? Right? The building mortgage is–functionally, usually–a special assessment, except you get to deduct as mortgage interest your share of the interest paid on the loan, no?
The above post is missing a “u”.
You don’t ever “sell your co-op”
you usually die of old age in your co-op
and nice 1 anon, you caught my reference 🙂
hey, I’m not defending the $3200 monthly fee. I’m just saying that it is different from condo ownership and condo assessments. I think that the $3200 is rather high and is a major deterant.
All other things being similar, if you had this same building and it was a condo, then the monthly fee would be significantly less but the sale price is significantly higher.
@sonies,
the average owners’ age is usually high in chicago north-side co-ops. Especially the grander gold coast buildings. Those are almost all old money and some building don’t allow any financing at all.
Thanks. I didn’t understand.
“You get to sell a unit in a building that isn’t falling apart? Right? The building mortgage is–functionally, usually–a special assessment, except you get to deduct as mortgage interest your share of the interest paid on the loan, no?”
“You don’t ever “sell your co-op”
you usually die of old age in your co-op”
BWAHAHA!
“You don’t ever “sell your co-op”
you usually die of old age in your co-op”
BWAHAHA! Just the other day Howard Stern was bitching about his assessments because there are a bunch in his co-op that are geriatrics who need the doorman to carry them out of their vehicle and to their unit and doesn’t require the doormans services at all.
Tragedy of the commons with these buildings with all these amenities is what I see.
“All other things being similar, if you had this same building and it was a condo, then the monthly fee would be significantly less but the sale price is significantly higher.”
Is there a difference, in general, between assessments for comparable coops and condos besides taxes being included? If not, why would the sales price be different? Why does it matter if you pay directly or in assessments?
Am I wrong (likely) or isn’t this like a ~$7500+ monthly total cost (20% down)? God damn
“Why anybody would want to live in a co-op is crazy to me. What is the upside?”
More than just no renters (unless specially authorized). Co-ops screen shareholders financially so there are far fewer foreclosures and assessment deadbeats. And when someone goes as far as eviction in arrears, the corporation can sell the unit and pocket the money, rather than being out the assessments and having a bank sell it to whoever (which is why banks are scared of co-ops in Chicago).
“Tragedy of the commons with these buildings with all these amenities is what I see.”
There is an externality issue but I don’t think it’s tragedy of the commons. Coop owners would probably argue there’s more likelihood of tragedy of the commons with condos.
DZ – it shouldn’t matter, but does. I grew up in a co-op and our taxes were lower than comparable condo’s and this is the case in the building I live in now as well.
“Am I wrong (likely) or isn’t this like a ~$7500+ monthly total cost (20% down)?”
Taxes are *included* in the $3100. $528k mortgage at 6.5% would be more like $3500/month than $4500. One of the two is the disconnect.
Still, $6500/mo (before parking!) is too much for this, no matter how nice. After the special is paid (or if price reduced by the $80k to pay the special), still $5700/month. Closer, but still too much, to me, with no parking. Maybe $5500 including a spot could work.
“Taxes are *included* in the $3100. $528k mortgage at 6.5% would be more like $3500/month than $4500. One of the two is the disconnect.”
Ahh, gotcha. I’ve never understood the taxes with co-ops (why they’re listed individually but then part of the assessment) but I think it makes sense now.
Either way, expensive!
I like the co-op idea. I looked into it once, but the guidelines and financial requirements blocked my riff raff ass from entering that realm.
I don’t represent being an expert on co-ops, but this discussion about a mortgage and assessment is incorrect. The co-op has to take out the mortgage which is part of the assessment. The building is owned co-operatively, not individually. As a result, there are limitations on the leverage that can be applied (50% is typical but sometimes it’s 0%). Because your neighbor may be hurt by a strategic default from you, you are subject yourself to a financial anal probe (aka co-op board approval). Consequently, you shouldn’t get defaults in co-ops. You also don’t get the massive price appreciation from financial leverage either. I think a co-op makes sense if you think you are going to settle in for a long-time in one place. You get better value for the space per sq ft. If you are flipping or intend to use your home equity to ladder into your American dream, then a co-op is not for you.
Even then assessments are going to be naturally high because co-ops tend to be vintage buildings. Old stuff needs more maintenance. You are also paying for more “white glove” treatment. And in many cases there are fewer units to spread fixed costs on.
Love the place,and wish I could afford to live like this. Look at those arches and that vaulted foyer. I’ve toured a couple of these units in my time and the rooms are HUGE.
There’s no point even talking about the assessments here. This is a huge, snazzy old co-op with massive rooms and a very high level of service- building has a big payroll. These places are for well-healed people who do not depend on earned income.
These premium Gold Coast, Lincoln Park, and handful of Lakeview old-world co-op buildings along the lake are favored havens for transplanted New Yorkers who move here and find Chicago’s high-end co-op housing market relatively affordable when compared to their Manhatten frame of reference. Someone who waxes fondly about an Park Avenue co-op childhood will gravitate to these handsome buildings, happily pay fees, and rationalize that an unobstructed view of Lake Michigan is nearly equivalent to a view of Central Park.
Sorry for mispellings…
“and rationalize that an unobstructed view of Lake Michigan is nearly equivalent to a view of Central Park.”
Yeah because a blob of blue nothingness nine months of the year really makes it comparable!
I love to ask people with lake views who brag about it what exactly they find interesting about the lake for three quarters of the year.
I love these old co-ops. Are they just extremely difficult to sell or virtually impossible? Are there any alternatives for someone looking for 2400+ vintage square feet?
Sidelined Buyer:
If you look around, you can find a similar feel to these co-ops in smaller buildings with smaller assessments.
This 1930s building on Paulina that we chattered about in 2008 had assessments of $420 a month.
http://cribchatter.com/?p=4258
Also- we chattered about this pre-war unit in a smaller building at 504 W. Barry in December. It was withdrawn from the market but has since been re-listed.
http://cribchatter.com/?p=7866
Architect – you couldn’t have more perfectly described a friend of mine in one of these co-ops. Great post!
A place like this is the perfect urban lifestyle. It’s what I aspired to and couldn’t quite reach.
If I had the money, I’d take it, or one of about a dozen other really great old co-ops in this city.
Sabrina, do you ever see anything listed at 2430 Lakeview, the incredible David Adler building facing the park. All the apts are 10-room duplexes. There are 4 fireplaces and a 40′ living room. 12′ ceilings on the ground floor. They cost about $4M now, when they come on the market.
As for 504 W Barry being comparable, I toured 504 W Barry, and the three units I saw in LSD are about 1000 sf bigger–I got ahold of the floorplan for 504 W Barry, and there is NO WAY it’s as big as the realtor says it is. Oh, and he claims there’s a yard in the back–uh, no, it’s a strip of grass under the fire escape.
At least the units at 3500 are about as spacious as they claim. The parking situation here sucks — most owners park about two or three doors down, not next-door, as it neighbors a synagogue. Also, there’s a ton of road noise from LSD (and I saw units on much higher floors–I can only imagine what a second-floor unit would sound like). One cool feature is that they have an extra apartment on the ground floor for kids to play in. The assessments here really are high (and I’m usually the one to remind people what you get for them)–I’ve seen a couple of comparable vintage units where the monthly assessments plus tax would come out to a thousand dollars less than this place.
What do you all think about this, is this a deal?
http://www.rubloff.com/property/chicago/07187633.cfm?searchId=15b87ab8-732e-4a73-8c3f-908cf06862dd&page=1&pageSize=10&sortType=1
Bob,
The lake is beautiful in the winter too. Mist swirls about as the water freezes. A warm day melts the solid mass and it breaks apart into millions of pieces. The snowflakes fall creating your own personal snowglobe as far as the eye can see. Moreover, there is something so tranquil about having the peacefulness and solitude of the lake as a view and then walking out into the hustle and bustle of the city. Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.
I’ve never had sex with cows either but I am not about to try it.
“I’ve never had sex with cows either but I am not about to try it.”
Maybe the worst analogy I’ve ever read on the internet
Jason (TFO): “the lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
Am I the only one creeped out by the antlers in the family room?
I once toured a house that had what looked like a real zebra skin rug. I couldn’t think of anything else besides that rug and it really turned me off. That was years ago and I still remember that rug. I saw the entire home in a negative light after seeing that rug.
Other than the antlers, this is a cool place. I don’t think I could tolerate the lack of parking though. Renting a space nearby isn’t going to cut it at this price.
“DZ on April 23rd, 2010 at 12:01 am
What do you all think about this, is this a deal?
http://www.rubloff.com/property/chicago/07187633.cfm?searchId=15b87ab8-732e-4a73-8c3f-908cf06862dd&page=1&pageSize=10&sortType=1”
For the record, I did not post that.
Isn’t 504 W Barry a condo building? That’s a beautiful place. The units are prettier than 3500 N Lake Shore, though they are much smaller. They’re good-sized units, just not massive.
it is criminal that someone painted all that beautiful woodwork
Is that essentially a single family home on the topp of this building? Would love to see that place!