City Living At Its Best in This 4-Bedroom Pre-War On the Park: 399 W. Fullerton in Lincoln Park
This 4-bedroom on the 14th floor at 399 W. Fullerton in East Lincoln Park just came on the market.
The co-op building was built in 1927 and is on the National Historic Register.
There are 32 units with the elevator opening to two units per floor.
The building has two tiers of units, the East Tier and the West Tier- both have north and south facing views as well.
The East Tier is 300 square foot larger, with units at 3300 square feet. The West Tier units are 3000 square feet.
This East Tier unit has been restored to its vintage glory with an attention to detail that includes antique doorknobs, built-ins, custom door hinges and marble window sills.
The kitchen has white cabinets and granite/wood counter tops with SubZero and Wolf appliances along with a butler’s pantry.
This unit actually has all the features buyers look for, which is rare for vintage of this era. There is one garage parking space, central air and laundry in the unit.
This unit is listed for $455 a square foot.
Meanwhile, up the street, a 3500 square foot 3-bedroom in the new construction Lincoln Park 2520 is listed at $747 a square foot (or at $2.67 million.)
Is this unit a deal compared to the new construction units soon to come on the market at Lincoln Park 2520?
John Vossoughi at @Properties has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #14E: 4 bedrooms, 3.5 baths, 3300 square feet, 1 car parking
- I couldn’t find a prior sales price because it is a co-op
- Currently listed at $1.5 million
- $100,000 credit to the buyer to cover special assessment
- Assessment of $2610 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable)
- Taxes of $7950
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
- Bedroom #1: 12×19
- Bedroom #2: 12×13
- Bedroom #3: 9×14
- Bedroom #4: 12×18
- Family room: 12×18
- Laundry Room: 6×11
- Study: 12×14
oh wow Laura Louzader bait.
Looks good to me for $300 psf cheaper than 2520’s price. What are you missing out on? A room with some treadmills? National Historic Register is cool, and the bathrooms look big enough that even the biggest JAP wouldn’t complain, although I could be wrong on that.
love these pre war condos, but i’f I’m paying $1,500,000 for a condo, I also own TWO CARS
This unit has 2 additional parking spaces across the street which can be sold along with the unit for an extra price just fyi.
Thanks
John Vossoughi
@properties
Anyone want to speculate (informed or otherwise) about expected assessments at 2520?
What a lovely place. The floor is so nice and old school. The only thing I am not crazy for is the kitchen and its weird curvature : )
I may have mentioned that there are a few buildings for which I’d make an exception regarding the private outdoor space Criterion. This is one.
It’s a co-op not a condo? Sorry, this is just lipstick on a pig, upscale real estate version. Today’s young people have virtually NO interest in co-ops. Unless they’re transplants from the Northeast cities where co-ops are commonplace, they cannot relate to the idea of not-quite-owning your apartment. They’re looking for the tax breaks and potential rentability that are part and parcel of condominium ownership but problematic in the case of co-ops. And let’s not get started on the difficulties of financing these places.
Co-op boards should start following the example of the building in Hyde Park that recently changed to condos in the interest of keeping the building sellable and relevant to the new generation of home buyers. I know a couple of lawyers who are knowledgeable about the process, having done it for some smaller buildings, so it can’t be all that hard.
Another question:
“Assessment of $2610 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable)
Taxes of $7950”
Is that typical co-op assessment list, with taxes included, or with it broken out (ie, actually $3250+/mo)?
Co-ops are good for keeping the riff raff out though. People who live in these buildings don’t want their neighbors to rent them out or necessarily thinking of their home as an investment. I think of co-op owners as wanting a particular living experience and money is secondary.
wholy ass fee’s batman
This is a wonderful old building. I know it well, having spent a lot of time there. The east tier is the one you want, as it has a large library next to the living room, which the west tier lacks. The curved kitchen is actually kind of charming. There’s also a long gallery for your artwork, and a huge formal entry hall. The building used to have an elevator man as well, but I don’t know if that’s still the case. It certainly lent even more charm.
If money were no object, I’d choose this place over most others. The assessment is huge, but if it includes taxes it doesn’t look as outrageously high as I feared (I thought it was over $4,000).
I don’t think “today’s young people” are looking at places like the subject property. For that matter, I’d say it’s a minority of Chicago parents of young kids who would prefer this sort of place over, say, a $1.5-2 million SFH (as is evidenced every day on CC). What’s the difference tax deduction-wise between a co-op and condo (beyond the fact that the max financed amount will be 75%, rather than as much as 90%)? And I don’t think the rental restrictions would be a big factor to most families who’d consider this place (that said, I do know a family currently trying to sell one of the west 3 beds; they’re leaving the area, so it could remain for sale, unoccupied, until it finally sells).
I do see the appeal of converting the nicer co-ops into condos. I know someone in that fancy (former?) co-op in Hyde Park, the conversion of which is/was controversial. But even if a conversion can be done, wouldn’t the prices of the units rise? While it would be far easier to obtain financing to purchase the converted units, won’t they just be competing with other more expensive/newer units (i.e., as Sabrina points out, this place is a “deal” compared to 2520; if converted, these units might need to be priced closer to 2520, a building with which many prospective buyers may feel this building can’t compete)?
Any details on the special assessment? $100k is a large chunk of change in addition to the high monthly assessments. I personally would rather own a SFH in the area with about the same yearly costs – actually own the land and building and have much more flexibility to sell / rent / improve. The home is beautiful though.
“wholy ass fee’s batman”
Makes a huge diff if the taxes are included or not–$1950 v $3275. $1950 is pretty good for 3300 sf, including heat and a/c.
This is beautiful. A unique property. Does 2520 have outdoor space?
““wholy ass fee’s batman”
Makes a huge diff if the taxes are included or not–$1950 v $3275. $1950 is pretty good for 3300 sf, including heat and a/c.”
yepppers $1950 for a 3000sf pre-war beauty w/ heat and a/c is a steal. which is why my bet is on the $3275.
i cant imagine the cost to heat and cool 3300sf building with old/retro-fitted technology
“# $100,000 credit to the buyer to cover special assessment
# Assessment of $2610 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable)”
would this be the reason for the high ass fee’s?
“i cant imagine the cost to heat and cool 3300sf building with old/retro-fitted technology”
A *lot* less than $1950/month.
You can see the buildig’s common areas, meet the daytime doorman and walk through an east unit in this sponsored video with Joanne Nemerovski:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ubwE0Vbmc
Part two of the video, which includes the exercise room, shows up adjacent to the above video at YouTube.
The unit sold for $1.175M two years ago. It was listed at $1.4M in 2009 when this video was shot.
“A *lot* less than $1950/month.”
yes but the upkeep of the rest of the whole building aint cheap, and i bet it has some seasoned doormen with a hefty union salary based on years of service brackets.
wait i dont make sense if the ass fee is high to cover building maintenance then why the special ass?
“Groove77 (April 26, 2012, 2:44 pm)
“# $100,000 credit to the buyer to cover special assessment
# Assessment of $2610 a month (includes heat, a/c, doorman, cable)”
would this be the reason for the high ass fee’s?”
It is my impression that the special assessment is outside of the monthly and thus termed “special”. Most vintage places this large had $2-5k monthlies to support general maintenance of the building and the staff.
Joe – thanks for the wonderful video. The unit shownseems to have a really good flow and is pretty awesome and whoever has the oppotunity to live in this building is very fortunate!
Wonderful, huge old place in great neighborhood, but it might be priced a little high.
I’m halfway with a number of the posters here on the demerits of co-ops, but there are some favorable offsets in this era of buildings destabilized with multiple foreclosures, liens, and assessment arrears, which is that co-ops can qualify prospective buyers for their ability to meet their financial obligations going forward. Most co-ops in this bracket scrutinize prospective buyers exhaustively, which is either a big plus or big minus depending on how you view it, but definitely helps weed out people extremely reliant upon unstable incomes.
You wouldn’t really think that owners in upper-bracket buildings would have to worry, especially since loans over a certain amount could not be sold to the GSEs, but there is a fairly massive number of high-end foreclosures relative to the size of this small market, and defaulting borrowers are allowed to squat for much longer periods without paying than with smaller loans, because banks are more reluctant to show the losses from these huge loans.
On the bad side, a difficult board can kill a sale to a perfectly qualified buyer, or delay until it dies, and there is often a lack of transparency that enables the board to conceal mounting problems in the building until they becoming overwhelming, which happened at a prominent co-op in this city. Often, owners have too little voice in the governance of the building.
Could add that this assessment is pretty much in line with that of comparable units in other buildings, like 3500 N Lake Shore.
“Any details on the special assessment? $100k is a large chunk of change in addition to the high monthly assessments. I personally would rather own a SFH in the area with about the same yearly costs – actually own the land and building and have much more flexibility to sell / rent / improve. The home is beautiful though.”
Ah, yes, the same old complaints about assessments.
This building is nearly 100 years old and has only 32 units. Do you have any idea the maintenance on that? ALL high rises have the same issues. The newer ones just avoid the cost of it for a little while longer than the old ones.
I’ve been told that the assessment covers 6 years and it’s to replace reserves.
I was once in a Gold Coast vintage 2/2 that was a corner unit and the agent told me that the owner had to pay a $60,000 special for window replacement (and it was about half the size of this apartment.)
Things like a new roof, new windows and tuck pointing cost an enormous amount of money. And then there is the day to day maintenance of elevators and the paying of doormen.
At least in this building there really aren’t big hallways so re-carpeting and painting costs aren’t as high.
Agree the price is a bit high. I’d say $1.2 mln should get it done. If I were to move back to the city, this would be the place. Unfortunately, affording Parker above and beyond the price of this unit would be a bit of a stretch to say the least!
“You can see the buildig’s common areas, meet the daytime doorman and walk through an east unit in this sponsored video with Joanne Nemerovski:”
Thanks for the video link Joe. It’s nice to see how the units flow which you can’t get from just the pictures.
These units really are homes in the sky. They just don’t build them like this anymore.
“It is my impression that the special assessment is outside of the monthly and thus termed “special”. Most vintage places this large had $2-5k monthlies to support general maintenance of the building and the staff.”
Yoss,
my limited understanding is a special assessment can be rolled into the regular assessment (like a payment plan) for those that dont want or cant cover a large special up front. may be different for each building
“These units really are homes in the sky. They just don’t build them like this anymore”
the detail would never be built today. and greedy builders would never build this few of units they would cram as many units as they possibly could. plus getting city approval for this few count of units would be hard. city and cook want as many units as possible to increase their taxable base.
places like these are gems and deserve the high costs to live in them. i just dont see new generations and future empty nesters going this route sadly
“Ah, yes, the same old complaints about assessments.” From the perspective that this unit, while beautiful, constitutes housing stock strictly for the 1%, then sure, go ahead and poo-poo such comments. But then realize your blog is essentially pointless, as the 1% doesn’t care about the assessment amount or whether the unit should sell for $1.2m or $1.5m.
To the 99%, it is otherwise an a valid complaint, especially when, as here, the assessment alone is 3.2x the median mortgage payment in Chicago. That is, to me, jaw-droppingly high.
“greedy builders would never build this few of units they would cram as many units as they possibly could”
No one would build a full floor condo building these days?
“the detail would never be built today”
Seems to me that people still want luxury and luxury still gets built. If particular types of detail are not getting built, I’d speculate that it’s because those elements are relatively more costly now than in the past (b/c of changes in materials costs, available skilled workers, etc.) or are not in demand among luxury buyers today, rather than some fundamental change in what does or doesn’t get built.
@helmethofer: Your remark about JAPs was offensive.
“No one would build a full floor condo building these days?”
(i know its a set up question as you have a few examples loaded already) but yeppers, you may see the top four floors as full floors, but a top to bottom full floors? over 5 stories is not gonna happen.
IIRC they built some full floors by OZ park, and the price was insane. LPW2050 is one of the few who are building large sqft units but charging $$$ for them.
“If particular types of detail are not getting built, I’d speculate that it’s because those elements are relatively more costly now than in the past (b/c of changes in materials costs, available skilled workers, etc.) or are not in demand among luxury buyers today,”
again yep it cost more to create detail. but what happened to a time when people built something great or substantial and not to just squeeze every bit of profit out.
From the listing:
100K clsing crdt pays remaindr of bldg spcial
Mnthly Asmt:$2610.46
Tax: $662.50 mnthly
Reserve asmt: $339.39
Parkin$300
Total=3,912.25.
“Seems to me that people still want luxury and luxury still gets built. If particular types of detail are not getting built, I’d speculate that it’s because those elements are relatively more costly now than in the past (b/c of changes in materials costs, available skilled workers, etc.)”
Does anyone watch “Selling New York”? There was an episode recently where an old-time personal injury lawyer was selling his place (that looked like this) and moving to Miami Beach. The brokers decided the place wasn’t open enough for today’s Manhattan buyers. So, they hired an architecture firm to come in, determine which walls weren’t load bearing, then they created detailed renderings, prominently displayed the renderings at the open house, so buyers could envision what they could do on their own, to open it up to more light. The subject property seems light deprived, but it’s still a great place. I wonder how loud the piano is for the neighbors?
“you may see the top four floors as full floors, but a top to bottom full floors? over 5 stories is not gonna happen.”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=9729
@helmethofer: The tongue in cheek humor escapes me. A few private little jokes can lead to public discrimination, which can lead to a gas chamber. It happened once, and WE take it seriously.
Listen I’m not trying to make a huge deal out of it, but its inappropriate. This ia a place to talk about real estate, not people. Just apologize, its easy, just 5 little letters. S-O-R-R-Y. Thats all it takes.
There is no apology that you’ll get from Ms. Birnbaum or me for humor and satire. You’re insane.
@helmethofer: I didn’t think you would. Tell this story to your next Jewish client about the “insane” guy on that Real Estate blog and see where it goes. I have no more time for your ignorance, either.
You have no sense of humor. If you can’t poke fun at bathrooms like this: http://www.redfin.com/IL/Highland-Park/2291-Hybernia-Dr-60035/home/17627335 and compare/contrast them with the subject property then you have a problem.
@helmethofer: Joke about the bathroom, not the ethnicity, get it? Open your mind to what its like to walk in someone else’s shoes.
Anthony: if you’re so offended by tongue-in-cheek humor and satire, the call up the HighlandPark Public Library and get Ms. Birnbaum’s book that “stereotypes an ethnic group, that’s wrong” removed from the stacks, here the call number: 817.5 B619 See if you can convince them to see things your way and make sure to get their apology.
@helmethofer: I’m not at the Highland Park library. I’m at Crib Chatter. I expected a higher class of commentary and got your garbage, so I guess its my expectations that are out of line, huh?
You’re full of it. Why haven’t you been here whining and screeching before when people make references to Oak Lawn, Chad/Trixie preppies, double-wide trailers, McHenry county, Bridgeport, ghettos, gangbangers, SWPL hipsters? It’s all in good fun and it’s a part of Chicago RE, it’s about diversity There are alot of Highland Park women that like big glitzy mirrored bathrooms that eschew the old ones. That’s a humorous observation. You literally have no sense of humor whatsoever.
Not one of your examples singles out any particular ethnicity, except what I am taking you to task for.