Competing Against the Rehabs: 3109 N. Sawyer in Avondale
This 4-bedroom vintage single family home at 3109 N. Sawyer in Avondale has been on the market since July 2011.
It was recently reduced $10,000 to $289,900.
It is just one block east of another house we’ve chattered about at 3122 N. Spaulding which had been a bank owned 2-bedroom and then was rehabbed into a 4-bedroom, 3 bath and is listed at $399,000.
That house recently went under contract.
See the chatter on 3122 N. Spaulding here.
Built 2 years after the Spaulding house, in 1890, 3109 N. Sawyer is also a 4 bedroom home but it hasn’t been completely gutted as the Spaulding house.
However, the listing says it has all new doors and windows, a newer garage and updated electric.
It house also has an “updated” kitchen with 42 inch cabinets, corian counters and white appliances.
3 of the 4 bedrooms are on the second level with the fourth on the main floor.
Built on a 25×125 lot, the house has central air.
If a property isn’t “new”- how does it compete with the rehabs?
Holly Bergren at Conlon: A Real Estate Company has the listing. See the pictures here.
3109 N. Sawyer: 4 bedrooms, 2 baths, no square footage listed, 2 car garage
- Sold in February 1997 for $99,000
- Bank owned in October 1998
- Sold in March 1999 for $78,000
- Sold in December 1999 for $189,000 (via redfin) or $29,000 (via public records- but it looks like there is a typo.)
- Originally listed in July 2011 for $299,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $289,900
- Taxes of $4296
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 12×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #2: 13×11 (second floor)
- Bedroom #3: 10×12 (second floor)
- Bedroom #4: 11×8 (main floor)
Assuming all the “updated” and “new” stuff really is, $269 (which is ’99 price +3%/yr).
GZ buyers are used to having can lights, therefore this is apples vs. orange compared to the rehab, and not a “GZ” type house. No bid from GZ types.
This is a nice house, I actually like it. I don’t like the elementary school logandale:
As of 2009-2010, there were 276 students enrolled at LOGANDALE. 97.8% were low income Students. 15.2% were Special Education Students. 11.2% were Limited English Learners.
As for someone like myself without a pension to count on in the future, I would prefer to save a small fortune by sending my children to public school, if at all possible.
“As for someone like myself without a pension to count on in the future, I would prefer to save a small fortune by sending my children to public school, if at all possible.”
Among areas in the city that you are seriously looking at, what are the elems that are in contention? I thought you were basically resigned to, and budgeted for, paying for catholic school.
Edgebrook, wildwood, old norwood, oriole, the edison park schools, basically the NW side. We are sort of considering farnsworth or beaubien if we move to the ‘forest glen’ section of 60630. If I stay where I’m at now, it’s viator for sure, belding-reilly-scammon are non viable options. Belding ‘sort of’ viable, scammon reilly are abysmal. I have budgeted for private school, hell, it’s cheaper than a nanny/daycare right now, but I’d rather not have that expense if at all possible.
“Edgebrook, wildwood, old norwood, oriole, the edison park schools, basically the NW side.”
I didn’t realize most of those were in serious contention. But you almost might as well move to park ridge and get a viable high school.
Edgebrook and wildwood are really on my radar but I’m having the same problem everyone else in the area has: 75% of houses are listed over $450k/$500k, yet, 75% (or more) of houses that close are under $500k. Architect rips on the area, but, personally, I would consider myself pretty fortunate to grow up in an area with so many nice cozy homes on big lots, lot of trees, metra, shopping, TONS of families everywhere, and a great public school near the highway and train. Edgebrook and wildwood, despite architect’s detailed shortcomings of the areas, are nicer than the areas I grew up, and I think I would enjoy living there.
There is no Catholic elementary school that is better than a public school (even the very worst public school).
Anyway, aren’t all CPS schools except for magnets over 90% low income?
“There is no Catholic elementary school that is better than a public school (even the very worst public school).”
Bullsh!t.
Park Ridge is nice with the high school and all but it’s a 30 minute commute away from 60646 during rush hour on that stretch of 90 inbetween cumberland and the junction. During non rush hour it’s 10 minutes…during working hours though, it can be horrible. So nevermind that. I’ve got a over a decade to worry about high school, who knows where I’ll be working, or if my wife will be working, I can worry about high school later. resurrection is always an option, all girls school is fine by me.
but this is all for naught, i’m staying put where i’m at for a while. I may decide to be a renter for the rest of my life. ain’t nuthin’ wrong with that (but my wife may think differently)
“I’ve got a over a decade to worry about high school, who knows where I’ll be working, or if my wife will be working, I can worry about high school later.”
Exactly, that’s a problem for future HD.
“Park Ridge is nice with the high school and all but it’s a 30 minute commute away from 60646 during rush hour on that stretch of 90 inbetween cumberland and the junction.”
Why is that the commute metric? If you’re metra convenient (which I am not) and willing to take metra, which I’d assume you’d have to be for edgebrook etc, then metra from park ridge to loop isn’t bad, I’d assume. (Caveat that I don’t really know which of those metra lines stop where.)
man whats with the recent (reported) shootings going on in avondale?
skeptic was the deal, more reporting or more activity?
Even the worst public school doesn’t teach kids things like wafers can turn into human flesh. They also don’t teach kids that virgin births are possible.
(Yes. I am still traumatized by spending 6 years in Catholic school. I wish my parents had sent me to the neighborhood public school even though it was “bad.”)
I am pretty sure most catholic schools at least have toilet paper in the bathrooms. Talked to a man this morning who has a daughter teaching at a public elementary school in the Garfield Park area. When the kids use the bathroom she has to count out squares of t.p. and give it to them before they go. Also she is daily breaking up fistfights in her 7/8th grade classrooms, escorted to/from her car by chicago cops, and had just 4 parents show up for conferences.
How sad is that?
But as a product of chicago catholic schools I certainly have my own issues with the system, so I think I know where you are coming from with your comment.
My wife works along the lake and public trans takes about hour from old irving. Park ridge would be a nightmare! 60646 is no more than a 10 min drive north even in traffic. Someone in her office commutes via public trans from PR and its 65 to 70 mins including driving to the train statiom.
“Even the worst public school doesn’t teach kids things like wafers can turn into human flesh. They also don’t teach kids that virgin births are possible.”
Yes, because that’s soooo much worse than being at a genuinely unsafe school, wherein crowd control and remedial work trump the educational needs of the typical kids.
“My wife works along the lake and public trans takes about hour from old irving. Park ridge would be a nightmare! 60646 is no more than a 10 min drive north even in traffic. Someone in her office commutes via public trans from PR and its 65 to 70 mins including driving to the train statiom.”
Sounds like it’s 5 to 10 minutes more. Not too bad.
“I may decide to be a renter for the rest of my life. ain’t nuthin’ wrong with that (but my wife may think differently)”
If done right it can be a very stress free way to live. Being able to call the landlord to fix your broken is a huge load off… assuming you have a good landlord. If you can think of stress as a currency you will have more to spend elsewhere, or you will simply live longer!
my cousin had her car set on fire while working as a counselor at senn. apparently she told the wrong fellow not to run in the hallway or something. I think she’d have rather carried a cross to school every day while saying a rosary than have her car burned. Of course senn is hs so the question is moot.
“Even the worst public school doesn’t teach kids things like wafers can turn into human flesh. They also don’t teach kids that virgin births are possible.”
Isn’t the issue as much your parents as the school? If your parents had views more consistent with your current views, wouldn’t have been much of an issue.
I will say my wife went to catholic and did not like it at all. But she would absolutely send our kid to her school (even with her teachers) over some of the cps options. And you would too with your hypothetical kid.
“If done right it can be a very stress free way to live. Being able to call the landlord to fix your broken is a huge load off”
I hear there are nice rentals in Hinsdale, but the commute prolly won’t work for HD.
“As for someone like myself without a pension to count on in the future, I would prefer to save a small fortune by sending my children to public school, if at all possible.”
good idea, that way you probably won’t have to pay for their college either
““Even the worst public school doesn’t teach kids things like wafers can turn into human flesh. They also don’t teach kids that virgin births are possible.”
Yes, because that’s soooo much worse than being at a genuinely unsafe school, wherein crowd control and remedial work trump the educational needs of the typical kids.”
Both sound pretty bad. One endangers the body and the other the mind.
I didn’t know about the toilet paper situation in some CPS schools. Yikes! At that point, I would just home school or do the CPS online magnet school. I have to wonder what’s wrong with parents though. Why wouldn’t they just buy toilet paper for the kids?
“One endangers the body and the other the mind.”
Gawd, if the kid isn’t smart enough, with approporiate guidance from M&D, to figure it out, s/he’ll end up turning to religion at some point anyway. May as well let them have a framework for understanding it.
(yes, several years of parochial schools here, too)
“Both sound pretty bad. One endangers the body and the other the mind.”
I’m not wading at all into catholic or not is good/bad, but *if* you are a parent that is not catholic, and you want your kids raised as not catholic, I don’t know that sending to catholic school is that big of a deal, when weighed against the worst of cps. There are also some catholic schools these days that I have heard described as “oh, it’s not really that religious.”
moomoo secular humanism endangers the mind even moreso IMO and secular schools are chock full of teachers who try to shape your kids paradigm in ways that aren’t related to objective learning. plus lets face it your demographic wouldn’t necessarily fit in there. I do know some Indian Christians though so maybe its possible
This house is kind of small and practically on the Kennedy. Bathrooms need updating.
But I think the kitchen is fine. Changing the counters would make a big difference. I really like the backyard too.
At that price it’s not a deal for a frame house.
” plus lets face it your demographic wouldn’t necessarily fit in there.”
Yes, the Catholic Church is traditionally fairly hostile to women.
“At that price it’s not a deal for a frame house.”
What type of premium would this home have if it were brick?
Guys, an unrelated question: my hubby has become paranoid since our kid was born and wants to install iron gates outside our doors which are just wooden. He feels they cannot stand an intruder (I know we are under attack…lol). Do you have an idea where we should get those? Basically, he wants someone to come and make them to measure.
Hi Chris –
I’ve seen a couple of brick 2 families in the area going for around 200K. I’d call that a deal. 2 apartments for 100K each.
What’s your feeling?
lol…Bob my demographic fits there perfectly. I just don’t like religious schools.
I prefer secular teachers as at least they need to offer some proof or justification for what they preach rather than God intended it that way.
The whole madonna whore dichotomy of Judeo-Christian faith makes me as a woman mad. Also my aunt went to a catholic school and she hated it. She told me the sisters were some of the most psychopathic people she has ever met.
That being said there is some truth to what anon said. I remember even when I was 6 I was stunned at how mean God sounded given the notion of hell so maybe it does not really matter too much.
“What’s your feeling?”
This same basic house, but in brick, rather than stick? Not much difference.
miumiu –
We have ironworks shops in Brooklyn who make the type of gates you are looking for. They are old-school places. Do you have something like that in your town? A good locksmith might be able to order them too.
How is the subject property “vintage”? Is it even pre-war?
HD, don’t you anticipate your income ever going up somewhat significantly? You’re an attorney in private practice. Don’t you hope to become a partner at your current firm (or a similar firm)? I know you’re (rightly) concerned about retirement, but is it really beyond the realm of possibility that your income might be approx $100k/yr higher in, say, 2020? I realize that’s hardly like winning the lottery or founding the next Groupon, but I guess I just find it a bit peculiar that you’re currently hunting for a long-term SFH, from which your kids will attend K – 12, based on (presumably) your current income level. Or do you have aspirations of buying a second/vacation home?
Re: Catholic versus non-Catholic. I attended Catholic from K – 7. It was really only a slightly better option that the public elem in my neighborhood; I think my parents were just doing what their parents did (i.e., sending their kids to Catholic schools). It was perfectly fine, and I honestly don’t recall it being an overly religious atmosphere. Then again, I was an altar boy and a fairly devout believer at the time, so perhaps I just didn’t notice all the transubstantiation and virgin reproductive talk (though I do faintly recall being admonished that the mere thought of kissing a classmate would earn us a nonstop ticket to hell). I do recall there being several lay teachers, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the number of lay vs. nuns has further changed over the past few decades. Anyways, if I *had to* live in a particular area of this city, and the public school option was substandard and likely dangerous, I’d send my kid to a Catholic school if possible (I can’t fathom a scenario in which I’d have to live around a lousy public school; if misfortune strikes and I can no longer live (as an owner or renter) in the nicest city hoods, then it’s off to the burbs or, better yet, elsewhere in the country). In the meantime, I’ll either live where there are pretty good public options and/or continue to consider the secular privates (ability and funds permitting). It’s not so much that I don’t want my Jewish kid attending a Catholic school (and I don’t) on account of any of the religious instruction kids receive (most of which is a good thing), it’s because of the absurd (e.g., birth control, divorce, etc.)and bigoted (obviously toward gay people, and still to an extent women, to say nothing of its esteemed track record of persecution and anti-reason over the past two millennia) positions that the Catholic Church imposes on adults within its jurisdiction.
My guess is that a brick home in Chicago would sell for 15-25% more than a comparable frame home. Curious what other people think about this.
Chris, I won’t at all consider a frame house. I would only buy either brick or stone.
“Guys, an unrelated question: my hubby has become paranoid since our kid was born and wants to install iron gates outside our doors which are just wooden. He feels they cannot stand an intruder (I know we are under attack…lol). Do you have an idea where we should get those? Basically, he wants someone to come and make them to measure.”
I use ProFenceChicago. Very reasonable price, excellent work and communications. I would definitely recommend, if nothing else for a competing quote.
“I can’t fathom a scenario in which I’d have to live around a lousy public school”
Even if your kid(s) were in one of the fancy private schools? Nice big SFH (there I said it) in graceland west, ravenswood, lakewood balmoral, etc. couldn’t possibly appeal?
“I won’t at all consider a frame house. I would only buy either brick or stone.”
Reading too much three little pigs to dux dux?
I would only buy frame if it’s a screaming deal in good mechanical condition and up to code…which I have not encountered yet.
“Even if your kid(s) were in one of the fancy private schools? Nice big SFH (there I said it) in graceland west, ravenswood, lakewood balmoral, etc. couldn’t possibly appeal?”
I doubt it, though if we had three kids and wan’t to remain in the city, I imagine I’d change my tune.
Instead of religion class they should instead be forced to take PE. Would do wonders to help combat the childhood obesity epidemic.
catholic vs. public or brick vs. frame with iron gates on the side kinda off to a slow start today arent we
miu –
You could also just get a heavy duty steel door with heavy duty locks. I have one. They can make them with picture frame moldings and once you paint it it looks just like a wooden door. I got mine from a good locksmith.
Logandale is the middle school, Avondale Elementary is the K-5.
And agreed, they aren’t up to snuff. If a grammar school being a 5 minute walk away is a deal-breaker for someone, definitely not a good place to consider. We’re going to Hamilton, it’s 2 miles east, but works out OK with the commute downtown.
Groove – which shootings? We haven’t had any in our pocket for a while, I know of two “hot” areas where you have some gang turf disputes, a bit further east at California south of Belmont, and up by Avondale Park. But the neighbors in both areas are pretty active and organized, and I can just say it’s night and day from when we moved in the area 10 years ago – we had more than a few multiple homicide incidents back then, things have been steadily improving.
“This is a nice house, I actually like it. I don’t like the elementary school logandale:”
specific to this property, it’s a little too close to the expressway for my tastes, even a half block can make a big difference in terms of noise. if you can hear individual cars it’s too close for me, where we are we get the “white noise” and it just sounds like water running.
I don’t think I knew what Jesus was before I went to Catholic school. I was lucky enough that my parents were able to find a private school for me after throwing a fit about Catholic school. I remember taking my uniforms and cutting them up in front of my parents.
My dad went to Catholic school and didn’t mind it, so he thought I would be fine too. My mom is an atheist Jew. Catholic school was a cesspool of bigotry towards everyone who didn’t fit the Catholic mold. The education was bad too. I was way behind the kids in private school in terms of math and science. I was lucky enough to catch up quickly, but it was astounding at how much I was behind.
For only a few dollars more you can buy this IKEA home. I swear, someday I am going to see one of these going down the Kennedy on a truck like a double wide…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3001-N-Christiana-Ave-60618/home/13449106
annony:
The old paradigm is work hard, watch your income go up, make partner, etc.
The new paradigm in the legal industry is: work your butt off, far far fewer associates are bumped up to partner, and even those are usually just ‘income partners’ not ‘equity partners’ – the add 3,000 newly lawyers per year into the mix, and the older boomers need to work and many can’t afford to retire.
It’s not just the legal industry, it’s accounting too. I know guys who have been in the big four for 14 or 15 years now, and every year they’re told “next year” and when next year comes it’s “next year”. They make a good salary but only 1/3rd to 2/5ths of what a newly minted equity partner makes.
So, no, the way the economy has been, I cannot count on my salary going up more than the cost of living. sure I can make moves here and there and jump around but hell, so is everyone else out there, like a game of musical chairs or something. I leave here, and there’s 300 associates with 5/7/9 years experience sending in their resume hoping the grass is greener over with their ass in my chair – and you know the idiom about the grass being greener.
I know what you are talking about Milkster. I will tell the boss see what he wants. I will try and find a locksmith as a starter.
Thanks Chibuilder. I will check and see if they do jobs out of Chicago. This is for our main home.
way off topic,
i am looking for a link to a old convo about synthetic diamonds we had on CC about a year ago.
my google Fu is below grasshopper level, below yellow belt steven segal style.
any help?
“old convo about synthetic diamonds we had on CC”
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10014
“For only a few dollars more you can buy this IKEA home. I swear, someday I am going to see one of these going down the Kennedy on a truck like a double wide…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3001-N-Christiana-Ave-60618/home/13449106”
Is it just me or the orientation of the kitchen counter is annoying? I’d rather it was 90 degrees rotated.
lol…it was a classic convo.
thanks DZ your a man amongst men
The sign says it’s under contract & construction is underway, so you can’t buy *this* one.
This is what I think people don’t get about Avondale – “it’s the land, stupid.” My neighborhood looks identical to west Lakeview 15 years ago, which was also riddled with crapshacks until the McCracker Boxes went up left and right.
“For only a few dollars more you can buy this IKEA home. I swear, someday I am going to see one of these going down the Kennedy on a truck like a double wide…
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3001-N-Christiana-Ave-60618/home/13449106“
I love Bob’s comment about synthetic making the genuine go out of fashion. With that analogy photographs should make the paintings of a scene worthless as they are the perfect image…lol
“I would consider myself pretty fortunate to grow up in an area with so many nice cozy homes on big lots, lot of trees, metra, shopping, TONS of families everywhere, and a great public school near the highway and train. Edgebrook and wildwood, despite architect’s detailed shortcomings of the areas, are nicer than the areas I grew up, and I think I would enjoy living there.”
If this is what you want, you should move to my neighborhood on the North Shore. Lots of nice homes selling well under $500K.
chitownbuilder… Believe it or not, my safety place is my home. It’s like walking in and feeling where i belong. So theory swings both ways.
Oh miu.. Hubby is asian.. I need to get him wound up with a link to some remote control pneumatic locking systems. Agree with milkster.. Metal door will look better.
As for catholic school… Oh why jenny, why, why, why did you cut up that dress???? I wanted to go to Catholic school just for the girls wearing those skirts and socks.
And why is Rodney always appropriate.. ‘Hey miu, it’s a restricted school, don’t tell em you’re Jewish’
anybody got some good links to pro synthetic diamond articles?
lol..ze, hubby is Italian. I wish he were Asian. They made much better husbands. Next time, I am not marrying a south European.
I love the uniforms too. I hope private schools have uniforms here, don’t they?
HD its happening in corporate America too. When a GM gets promoted or departs his replacement doesn’t get the Co. car, etc. Fake promotions are common too. many come with large increases in responsibility but a much smaller bump in pay. nobody is entering the 200k club anymore. 135k is the new 200k & the joke is because they’re closer to the p&l far more responsibility & generally less job security than the 110k middle mgt set.
“Anyway, aren’t all CPS schools except for magnets over 90% low income?”
Not even close.
As of 2009-2010, there were 706 students enrolled at LINCOLN. 15.2% were low income Students. 7.9% were Special Education Students. 5.9% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 671 students enrolled at BLAINE. 29.4% were low income Students. 8.9% were Special Education Students. 3.6% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 481 students enrolled at BURLEY. 31.4% were low income Students. 16.0% were Special Education Students. 8.1% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 947 students enrolled at BELL. 20.2% were low income Students. 14.4% were Special Education Students. 3.3% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 550 students enrolled at NETTELHORST. 34.5% were low income Students. 12.2% were Special Education Students. 13.1% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 439 students enrolled at ALCOTT ES. 31.2% were low income Students. 10.7% were Special Education Students. 6.4% were Limited English Learners.
Move out of the green zone and look at the other hundreds of elementary schools.
Or stay in the green zone and look at agassiz, jahn, or anything in logan, avondale, wicker park, bucktown, south loop, west loop, south, west, southwest, etc….
“nonya on August 22nd, 2011 at 10:29 am
“Anyway, aren’t all CPS schools except for magnets over 90% low income?”
Not even close.”
Common scenario in corporation America today: lets say VP departs. Company then asks director to cover “temporarily” until replacement is found & to take one for the team. But oh wait there is a hiring freeze or they just can’t seem to find the perfect candidate & gosh darn they are so busy with fire drills. temporary becomes permanent director Burns out & leaves after a couple years & bam one less mouth for the c-level execs to fees from the bonus cookie jar. next post directors job with all previous responsibilities of both positions but for 25% less pay. ahh the joys of overhead productivity growth 😀
As of 2009-2010, there were 393 students enrolled at JAHN. 86.5% were low income Students. 13.5% were Special Education Students. 17.0% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 342 students enrolled at AGASSIZ. 63.2% were low income Students. 23.7% were Special Education Students. 9.1% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 164 students enrolled at COURTENAY. 89.0% were low income Students. 28.0% were Special Education Students. 18.3% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 294 students enrolled at BRENNEMANN. 93.5% were low income Students. 16.3% were Special Education Students. 29.3% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 207 students enrolled at HAMILTON. 63.3% were low income Students. 24.2% were Special Education Students. 19.3% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 472 students enrolled at MAYER. 64.4% were low income Students. 12.3% were Special Education Students. 2.8% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 406 students enrolled at AUDUBON. 48.5% were low income Students. 12.1% were Special Education Students. 8.9% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 157 students enrolled at PRESCOTT. 90.4% were low income Students. 15.9% were Special Education Students. 19.7% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 374 students enrolled at COONLEY. 48.7% were low income Students. 22.5% were Special Education Students. 10.4% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 368 students enrolled at STOCKTON. 93.5% were low income Students. 19.8% were Special Education Students. 18.2% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 733 students enrolled at PULASKI. 93.7% were low income Students. 9.4% were Special Education Students. 24.3% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 599 students enrolled at CLEVELAND. 93.5% were low income Students. 17.4% were Special Education Students. 28.5% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 885 students enrolled at BATEMAN. 94.1% were low income Students. 8.5% were Special Education Students. 27.8% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 556 students enrolled at VON LINNE. 95.1% were low income Students. 11.9% were Special Education Students. 31.1% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 504 students enrolled at GREELEY. 89.9% were low income Students. 10.1% were Special Education Students. 31.3% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 596 students enrolled at MCPHERSON. 87.2% were low income Students. 19.5% were Special Education Students. 15.3% were Limited English Learners.
Luigi,
You just confirmed my suspicion. You are really Roma, who got offended by mine and MiuMius’questioning of his ethnicity, so you chose a new, less stereotypical name.
Heck, i would think a guy buying UST’s and 80PM’s – whatever the heck those things are – wouldn’t be the first person to complain.
and that’s just the northside…
what percentage of non magnet cps elems are over 90% poors?
I don’t know, I’d imagine pretty high.
there are literally a handful of elementary schools in the green zone that are passable, Bell, Blaine and Lincoln being the best of them, and housing prices are reflective of that. The richest children get the best public schools in chicago even though the system is supposedly designed to avoid that.
when you get the northwest side it gets alittle better, like beaubain & farnsworth (jeff park), and then by the time you’re in the fringes like edison park, wildwood,
As of 2009-2010, there were 374 students enrolled at WILDWOOD. 24.3% were low income Students. 13.1% were Special Education Students. 8.0% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 458 students enrolled at EDGEBROOK. 10.0% were low income Students. 12.7% were Special Education Students. 2.8% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 340 students enrolled at NORWOOD PARK. 12.9% were low income Students. 17.4% were Special Education Students. 1.8% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 575 students enrolled at ORIOLE PARK. 20.9% were low income Students. 10.8% were Special Education Students. 4.9% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 535 students enrolled at SAUGANASH. 28.6% were low income Students. 12.0% were Special Education Students. 10.1% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 507 students enrolled at FARNSWORTH. 60.9% were low income Students. 21.9% were Special Education Students. 16.0% were Limited English Learners.
As of 2009-2010, there were 1119 students enrolled at BEAUBIEN. 55.7% were low income Students. 10.4% were Special Education Students. 14.3% were Limited English Learners.
I don’t get where all these poor people live. This house, for instance, seems like it’s in a stable middle class neighborhood. Am I wrong? If so, where are all the poor people living? Do they still have busing?
For the most part the NW side is traditional middle class (although disappearing) and the schools reflect that.
Green zone parents who pay for expensive homes have less children. I’m in my 30’s and i only have one child. My cleaning lady also lives in the green zone, she rents, she is also in her 30’s, has three children and is on her maternity leave now. she is on medicaid, link, gets no child support and has two baby daddies. So, it takes three households of dual working parents to equal the reproductive factor of my cleaning lady renting the apartment for $850 a month down the block from them.
“jenny on August 22nd, 2011 at 10:57 am
I don’t get where all these poor people live. This house, for instance, seems like it’s in a stable middle class neighborhood. Am I wrong? If so, where are all the poor people living? Do they still have busing?”
True HD. I hadn’t thought about that. I can’t imagine ever being able to afford 3 kids, let alone 1 kid even though I am considered middle class. I don’t know how anyone could raise kids on less than $150k a year.
Jenny wins this thread.
and I don’t know Jenny I haven’t checked my poor person traps in awhile.
“I don’t know how anyone could raise kids on less than $150k a year.”
Now that’s almost offensive.
Jenny I can’t fathom either how 97% of families in the city exist here. We should make those people get tattoos on their foreheads so its easier to disassociate from them than by going to Whole Foods.
I make FAR less than $150k a year. It just seems like kids are really expensive. My friends make about $150k a year and they are still struggling now that they have kids. She is a stay at home mom and he works, so they don’t even have to pay for daycare.
HD if Jenny owns real estate she is a prime example of the kind of SWPL who overpaid for GZ RE because anecdotally she thought the kids demographic was like the one she sees around her nabe. Had they any sense in their planning abilities they would’ve baked a DISCOUNT for Chicago proper vs the burbs with good schools instead of a PREMIUM. And when it comes to K12 time from her set there will be another condo for sale on the MLS with a crib.
LOL, but I’d love to hear of any that will fool the missus.
“anybody got some good links to pro synthetic diamond articles?”
Ha Bob! I live in University Village, where the neighborhood elementary school is one of the worst in the city. I also bought after the crash. I doubt I’ll ever have kids, but if I did, I would likely stay in the area unless I could afford to be a stay at home mom and had a husband who didn’t mind a long commute.
On this house, it seems like a great deal compared to Spaulding. I’d rather save the $110k on this house and fix it up a bit and have some extra $$ for my pocket than to buy the house on Spaulding.
On schools, why does a school HAVE to be bad if it has low income students? I work at one of the best schools in the city, and we have a high percentage of low income students. That fact alone does not make a bad school.
On kids, I don’t think Jenny made any ridiculous statement. Many middle class people are wieghing the cost of having children and therefor either have less or none to have a better lifestyle. Kids cost a lot, and the more kids you have the less $$ you have for trips, etc. I think many people are wieghing this when deciding whether to have kids and how many. You can definitely have kids and make less than $150k, but many people do not want to give up their lifestyle to have kids, and therefor need to make $150k for both to exist.
Parental income and education correlates pretty damn well with student test scores and academic performance.
Jenny you mean your family _doesn’t_ have a house on the French Riviera they summer at? On a related and hilarious note recently read an article attempting to put a sob story spin on some lady with a huge mortgage on a place in said area because her note was tied to the Swiss franc & its skyrocketing. Was hilarious and made me all warm & fuzzy inside. I hope the franc goes to the moon!
Luigi is Dan. Marcus disappeared and he showed up…lol
“I make FAR less than $150k a year. It just seems like kids are really expensive.”
Actually Jenny the initial investment of having a kid is very high. Once you have one, you need to buy his room furniture, high chairs, swings, strollers, clothes etc… The subsequent kids will cost less as you use the same items. Also middle class waste so much more money. They buy organic clothes, shampoos, etc that cost sometimes 10 times more than say baby Jonhson stuff.
“On schools, why does a school HAVE to be bad if it has low income students? I work at one of the best schools in the city, and we have a high percentage of low income students. That fact alone does not make a bad school.”
Doesn’t have to be, but if the percentage is high enough relative to the neighborhood, it’s at least telling you families with resources are avoiding the school. It’s also v different if you’re talking about a selective enrollment school.
“On kids, I don’t think Jenny made any ridiculous statement.”
It may be a perfectly reasonable statement of her own preferences. It is, at a minimum, grossly hyperbolic when applied to *everyone*.
The main costs of having kids are the following:
– time aspect
– housing costs are more due to the desire for more space
– housing costs are more due to the desire for a better school district
– if no stay at home parent, day-care/nanny
– food/clothing/baby stuff that can vary in cost
But in the end, for most people all of this stuff is more than worth it and you don’t need to be making over $150K to have kids. For the ones who don’t have kids, they must not want to have any legacy or some other reason. It can’t be because they don’t make over $150K.
MM hit the nail on the head. one of the personality flaws white people have is their strong desire to provide a BETTER standard of living for their offspring even if they don’t earn significantly more than their parents and even if they had it pretty freaking good compared to most and just took it for granted. one of the reasons I find the whole angst subculture bizarre except foe the minority of Goths & emos that truly do come from F’d up homes. there is a reason they call Jenny’s speculation of how to raise kids on a paltry sum of 145k white people problems.
funny side story a friend of mine is a blonde from Iowa and Chicagoland burbs (yes yokel Juliana your burb) and she recently moved to the city & was freaking out on FB about how someone put their 5 &3yo on the bus & was scrambling to help them. she is obviously new to the city but really isn’t young enough to pull the young naive card as to how something like that actually happens. she couldn’t believe it. there really are a lot of people who go through life with blinders on to how the other half lives. a d the sad part is these people vote.
That was the route we took, and that most of our friends took as well. Buy the home that needs work, but that you can live in comfortably enough to do at your own pace.
But what I’ve really grown to appreciate from this site is that there apparently is a huge chunk of the populace that doesn’t want to do any work at all & will pay a premium to have it done for them.
So here’s a question – would $110K actually get this house up to the condition of the one that just sold on Spaulding? I truly have no idea, we’re meeting with our architect to review bids in a week, he’s hinting the bids look good/within our budget, but this is all pretty new to me since we did do so much work ourselves.
“On this house, it seems like a great deal compared to Spaulding. I’d rather save the $110k on this house and fix it up a bit and have some extra $$ for my pocket than to buy the house on Spaulding.”
Is daycare for less than $25,000 a year even available? My dual income friends with kids spend that. At that point, it seems like it’s better for one parent to stay home, but both parents want to work.
On the other side are the poors who get it for free… but what about middle income people who don’t qualify for free daycare and who can’t afford $25,000 a year?
“My friends make about $150k a year and they are still struggling now that they have kids. She is a stay at home mom and he works, so they don’t even have to pay for daycare.”
Your friends “struggle” because they suck with money. Although you may be forced to decide between a new 3 series or your child’s education…
Jenny they are called suckers. But you probably voted Democrat party in college & perhaps still do so pipe down about social inequities instituted by the government.
I’ve always voted for the Libertarian candidates (when they are on the ballot).
“LOL, but I’d love to hear of any that will fool the missus.
“anybody got some good links to pro synthetic diamond articles?””
in all the talk of schools and income need to have kids my question was lost.
so to get to my subject i will answer all the above debates.
1. doesnt matter what school your kids go to its your genes it has, so your kid is f’d anyway, save money send them to CPS
2. yes % of low income correlates to testing in cps schools, just the way it is deal with it and refer to #1
3. if your willing to pay for religious school with no ties to the religion and want to ignore #1 then just move to highland park or riverside.
4. If you yahoo’s think it takes 150k to have a family in the city you are either and idiot or are wearing a helmet at this very moment, enough said about that subject.
5. there is no middle class anymore, wake up, its gone. and refer to #1
6. jenny’s view on everything is subjective and will only relate to .001% of chicagos population
7. bob is two drinks away from our bygone friend dan, few cats away from a tinfoil hat and a new JFK conspiracy, but provides some great counterpoints when not angry-smash bob or borderline racist bob. but either way refer to 1#
8. kids dont cost “extra” money but they to cost time, the trade off is worth it but you dont see it till your already knee deep in plastic clown colored toys and your “party friends” havent called in 2 years. in the end its awesome and once you grasp #1 then its even more awesomerest.
9. CPS sucks and so do the burbs, Oak brook sucks hard schuamberger sucks 10x more, englewood is the wild west uptown scares me more, bucktown sucks and ELP is overrated, follow #1 find a place that comfortable and invest in your community
10. think of cribchatter as a teacher grading on a scale, throw out clio and HD and take the collective average then go and MAKE UP YOU OWN MIND all while following #1
11. if your read this far…get back to work you f’ing slacker. Invest in your community, grasp #1, and seriously get back to work.
2 kids in day care will cost you upwards of $25,000 a year, so at that point it just becomes of a question of whether or not to hire a nanny, or, just stay home.
You can find a daycare for cheaper but the mothers are all baby mommas and the kids are behavioral nightmares.
“so to get to my subject i will answer all the above debates.”
Like.
1. doesnt matter what school your kids go to its your genes it has, so your kid is f’d anyway, save money send them to CPS
this is true
Well you don’t have kids. I bet a lot of your friends with kids, especially the mamas vote D because at uni a lot of profs, especially in the social “sciences” drill in that your not supporting women unless you vote D. Ditto for late night comedians like Jew Stewart or rags like the Jew York times.
oops there goes my anti semetic autocorrect again
Dave M, that’s a good list of kid-related costs. I’d also add life insurance premiums.
“Is daycare for less than $25,000 a year even available?”
I imagine it is. We’re currently paying $8,400/yr for two full days (like 9 – 4:30, but it could be 8 – 6:30 if needed), but I feel the place is a few cuts above “daycare” (there’s obviously a daycare aspect to it, especially for the younger kids, but the place makes a good effort of functioning more like a “preschool” in terms of pedagogy, developmental activities, outings, etc.). I think they offer some sort of deal if the kid goes five days, such that it’s not much more than $17,000/yr (and again, I’d venture that it’s far better than a standard daycare). We’ll be adding an actual “preschool” (one of the co-ops in LP) to the mix starting in a few weeks, though that’s only two hours a day, two days a week (for the bargain sum of nearly $4,000 for the school year, which doesn’t include the “suggested” donation of $1,000).
My daycare is $14,000 a year per kid. No discounts for two kids. And it’s nothing special. Kindercare in Lincoln Park is $454 a week for newborns. do the math.
HD, I think some of your numbers for CPS schools are old. Blaine has over 800 students.
An au pair is about $18K/year. If you have more than one kid, it’s a no brainer.
“An au pair is about $18K/year. If you have more than one kid, it’s a no brainer”
and most that are worried about the $$$ comparison really have a extra private room for said au pair?
please refer to #1
A nanny-share is also a good option if you only have one kid and know another family that has one kid too who live not too far apart. This would only be $7-8 per hour versus the standard $13-16 per hour for a nanny. 45 hours a week at $15 an hour is $35K, compared to $18-19K at $7-8 per hour with the nanny share. Still very expensive.
I wouldn’t want an au pair, unless I had a huge house. I don’t think I could really let my guard down with anyone but family or close friends. My friends went the au pair route for awhile and it sounded uncomfortable – always watching TV with the au pair at night, never really getting alone time with your family. Maybe people who grew up with live-in “help” would feel comfortable, but not me.
Everyone I knew with an au pair had an illegal immigrant. Just make sure you don’t plan on running for office one day.
I was curious about one thing – how many people actually withhold taxes for their nanny? I have friends who are attorneys who don’t even do this, and said unless you are running for office it shouldn’t matter.
The au pair is definitely cheaper, but it’s better if you are in a SFH and they can have their bedroom on a different floor. Otherwise, it would be too wierd.
“I was curious about one thing – how many people actually withhold taxes for their nanny? I have friends who are attorneys who don’t even do this, and said unless you are running for office it shouldn’t matter.”
If the nanny is planning on living in the US in retirement, they should want to be on the books for social security (yeah, yeah, there *will* be something left) purposes.
my nanny is old enough to go on soc sec. we’ve been paying her taxes but maybe she should switch to cash and start collecting ss
My friends paid tax for their au pair. One of them is in a semi-public job and they aren’t the type of people who think they can get away with anything.
Yeah, we’re paying $240 a week. It’s why I wasn’t concerned about private school, the ones I was looking at were cheaper than the day care is.
“My daycare is $14,000 a year per kid. No discounts for two kids. And it’s nothing special. Kindercare in Lincoln Park is $454 a week for newborns. do the math.”
“I doubt I’ll ever have kids”
Hooray!!! Good for society.
An au pair is not a US Citizen and you don’t need to pay tax.
Au Pair get a student visa and are here legally. No need to worry about running for office, not that I want to.
Luigi perhaps a better moniker would be Wario?
I also love skeptics comment about the land values destined to go up. Speculation is still alive & well and people ARE willing to speculate with hundreds of thousands of dollars of the bank’s money to try their hand at the RE rouelette.
‘the au pair is definitely cheaper’
Ask Tiger.
“HD its happening in corporate America too. When a GM gets promoted or departs his replacement doesn’t get the Co. car, etc. Fake promotions are common too. many come with large increases in responsibility but a much smaller bump in pay. nobody is entering the 200k club anymore. 135k is the new 200k & the joke is because they’re closer to the p&l far more responsibility & generally less job security than the 110k middle mgt set. ”
Is $100K the new $150K too? I would hope there’s more flexibility in work hours given the lower pay, but who knows.
“Everyone I knew with an au pair had an illegal immigrant.”
Weird, everyone I know either had graduate student au pairs or au pairs they got through an agency and they were for sure legal. Actually I would have loved an au pair but my city does not have a program.
Dave M: some more flexibility in the work hours. Better be confident you are layoff proof though. Also they are adding non-monetary perks like casual attire every day. this is very prevalent downtown whereas on burbs maybe its just Fridays. young people love it but mgt track people don’t take advantage cept on Fridays. I think middle mgt types are finally starting to get what’s going on & indeed are taking more time off. then again its August so this could be completely anecdotal.
The people truly in demand with unique skillsets can’t be getting completely hosed though making 1997 salary levels for that position. What about actuaries, or experienced general counsels in specific industries, or Sr VP’s of tax, etc?
I dunno I’m not a comp consultant and work with people with generalized skillsets. Damn accountants will never learn loving and using excel almost exclusively means your as replaceable as a termite.
IT gigs can still pay well but there are few in Chicago vs other similarly sized hubs.
“‘the au pair is definitely cheaper’
Ask Tiger.”
lol… and he is not the only one.
Groove #1 is exactly right! #2 is generally right, but there are exceptions. #12, sorry no one answered your question still. You did a great job trying!
The shooting in Avondale that was mentioned happened over the weekend.
Per the Tribune:
About 10 minutes later, a man was shot in his back in the city’s Avondale neighborhood, Gaines said. That shooting happened near the intersection of Belmont and Lawndale avenues. Preliminary reports stated the man, described as being in his 30s, was taken to Advocate Illinois Masonic Hospital.
While synthetic (or cultivated) diamonds have great potential for jewelry, their TRUE value lies in industrial uses.
Diamonds are the most efficient insulating material (both electrically and thermally), allowing the creation of computer chips with exponentially greater power than those in use today.
“While synthetic (or cultivated) diamonds have great potential for jewelry, their TRUE value lies in industrial uses.”
thanks danny! read a bit last night about them. i read the jeweler mafia are not *allowing the synthetic to enter their turf and only a snall few online sellers of them. kind of like the Oil mafia, but thats for another blog 😉
Groove, if you don’t have anything pertinent to post, please show some restraint.
“Groove, if you don’t have anything pertinent to post, please show some restraint.”
sorry posted it on the wrong thread, your still an asshat.
oh – and learn proper English, please.
Dr. Asshat,
please take your own advise… ignore/dont read my post.
Belmont crossing Kimball to the west is definitely entering some more questionable waters – but the Late Bar (and Late Bar-wanna be) crowd probably enjoys the “street cred” that comes with the occasional shooting.
These are always, *always*, gang-related, either turf or boyfriend/girlfriend related disputes that blow out of control, and have zero impact on people moving into Avondale east of Kimball.
There’s just really no reason to cross Kimball to the west from this address, and quite often, vice-versa for the problem gangbangers. Avondale can get dicey here and there, but it ain’t the Wire.
“About 10 minutes later, a man was shot in his back in the city’s Avondale neighborhood, Gaines said. That shooting happened near the intersection of Belmont and Lawndale avenues. Preliminary reports stated the man, described as being in his 30s, was taken to Advocate Illinois Masonic Hospital.”
Actually serious crime is going down so I am not sure any of these neighborhoods are getting worse because of crime. Now things like school quality are a separate matter.
Luigi/Dan –
There’s that love of ethnic food again!