Custom Redesigned 2-Bedroom Duplex Up Loft in Bucktown: 1737 N. Paulina
This corner 2-bedroom duplex up loft in the Paulina Lofts at 1737 N. Paulina in Bucktown came on the market in September 2022.
Built in 1904, the Paulina Lofts have 27 units and exterior gated parking. There’s no doorman or amenities.
This is a top floor corner unit with exposed brick and 14 foot timber ceilings that are painted white.
It has skylights.
The listing says the unit has had a “full renovation and custom redesign in 2020.”
The fully renovated kitchen has “all new” gray (black?) cabinets, an island that seats three, stainless steel appliances, white countertops, and open shelving.
The hardwood floors have been “refinished” and there are now hardwoods in both bedrooms.
The listing says the unit has new doors, trim, hardware and lighting throughout.
The primary bedroom appears to have an en suite bath.
There’s also a spiral staircase that leads up to an office with an indoor doghouse with dry bar and double sliding doors that lead to a new composite rooftop deck with black steel railing that has views of the city skyline.
This loft has the features buyers look for including central air, washer/dryer in the unit and 1 gated exterior parking spot which is included.
This building is near the 606 and the shops and restaurants of North and Damen.
Buyers love “new.”
Listed at $675,000, will this loft get the premium?
Brittany Bussell and Mike Rasmussen at @Properties Christie’s have the listing. See the pictures here (sorry, no floor plan).
Unit #305: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1626 square feet, loft
- Sold in September 1992 for $221,500
- Sold in December 1994 for $225,000
- Sold in August 2004 for $352,000
- Sold in February 2012 for $345,000
- Sold in February 2020 for $440,000
- Currently listed at $675,000
- Assessments of $515 a month (includes security, exterior maintenance, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $10,560
- Central Air
- Washer/dryer in the unit
- 1 gated exterior parking space included
- A double sided wood burning fireplace
- Bedroom #1: 12×11
- Bedroom #2: 14×12
- Living room: 18×18
- Dining room: 13×10
- Kitchen: 13×11
- Office: 14×8 (second floor)
- Foyer: 19×4
- Deck: 19×15 (second floor)
Floor plan is in the previous sale info
The SF includes the deck
Nice looking place
Owners did quite a bit of work in 30 mo of ownership and are looking to get paid. Too bad rates are 2 points higher
HOA fees are insane for nothing
$135k down and $5k/mo seems really steep and not seeing an elevator
Also why buy when you can rent a similar (not as updated and no outdoor space) for sub $3k. – https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1737-N-Paulina-St-APT-206-Chicago-IL-60622/2064126282_zpid/
No comps are anywhere near $600k in a lower rate environment. No chance this appraises for anything starting with a 6
Owners are on crack or it’s a make me move situation
“Floor plan is in the previous sale info”
Quite a bit different now, tho.
Nice looking place.
Nonny would comment on the inability to have anyone over for dinner, which is the compromise with getting rid of the trapezoidal dining area in the old layout. A tradeoff I accept as right and proper.
Nice place. Hosting dinners would be tricky here, though that bench unit is a good idea. And perhaps there’s a mystical way to convene with guests in other locations, sort of like remote viewing, or what Luke did in Episode 9? Might be explored in the book that accompanies their cutting boards.
“HOA fees are insane for nothing”
It’s a 100 year old brick building. You think maintenance is low for that?
Also, it was converted into residential 30 years ago. Original conversion finishes have to be replaced at some point including elevators, parking gate, lobby, roof.
I don’t understand why people think being a homeowner is somehow expense free. These HOAs are $6000 a year. Doesn’t seem outrageous for an older building. Includes garbage and snow removal costs.
This loft shows what owners must do to compete with the new construction apartments though.
Finishes are all new and what you’d expect in an upscale rental. If a buyer was renting, buying this would not be a downgrade.
Buyers don’t want to go in the reverse. They want updated with current finishes. 20 year old finishes aren’t going to cut it in in condos.
“ Buyers don’t want to go in the reverse. They want updated with current finishes. 20 year old finishes aren’t going to cut it in in condos.”
What they want and what they’re willing to pay is a separate question
Are they willing to spend $1k/mo more + $135 large on a non amenity building – doubtful (use Wolf Pt as a reference)
Do you think the subject property is worth the $135k down + $2k/mo Vs the one I linked to?
“ It’s a 100 year old brick building. You think maintenance is low for that?
Also, it was converted into residential 30 years ago. Original conversion finishes have to be replaced at some point including elevators, parking gate, lobby, roof.”
Depends on the quality of work done during the renovation. If it was half assed, yeah you’re going to have issues
I’m sure the lobby is just spectacular! It’s so awesome that they didn’t include any pictures
I don’t understand why people think being a homeowner is somehow expense free. These HOAs are $6000 a year. Doesn’t seem outrageous for an older building. Includes garbage and snow removal costs.
Yeah the CAM for snow removal has to be what a whole $50/mo? LOL
Do you live in a SFH? If you’ve spent $50k in maintenance in 10 years you bought a home with issues or you’re clueless. On a Sf basis this place is much worse than an 2000sf home
I’m not a loft fan generally, but this is one of the most attractive ones I’ve seen, and in a great location. Plus it includes parking and a private roof deck that appears to have pretty great views. If I were looking to move to Bucktown, this would be a place I’d check.
I’ve never heard of an “indoor dog house,” and never plan to be a dog owner. I assume someone who doesn’t have a dog could find another use for that space?
Also, the one amenity I’d really want that this building lacks is a gym. Does anyone have ideas of where they’d put an exercise bike or treadmill in this unit?
“ I’ve never heard of an “indoor dog house,” and never plan to be a dog owner. I assume someone who doesn’t have a dog could find another use for that space?”
The dog house is the structure above the roof, not meant literally for a dog. Indoor is a bit redundant.
Nothing but the best and brightest can be a Realator
“Do you live in a SFH? If you’ve spent $50k in maintenance in 10 years”
on maintenance that does not include appliances or HVAC, etc.
“No comps are anywhere near $600k”
Not the same building, but basically next door, and sold last month:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1740-N-Marshfield-Ave-60622/unit-22/home/13354704
That’s the pricing comp.
HVAC yes, even if you have a wall mounted unit with sophisticated chips
No on the appliances, unless you know of a HOA that covers this in a condo
If you’re going off $/SF, sure. $400/sf. Subject property would comp for $540k
Both have their flaws so assuming they offset
Just checked street view. There’s a really unattractive and large apartment building just across the street. Might even be a HUD or Section 8 building. Looks like a monstrosity built in the 70’s or 80’s. And judging by the average age of the cars parked in its parking lot in the 2019 Google maps photo, I have a bad feeling about it (a 90’s T-bird and a pre-1986 GM coupe).
Not saying that makes this a bad place to live. But I do know having a low-income housing complex across the street is something to look into before buying.
Here’s a link to the across the street building. I worry more about its ugliness and the effect on street appeal. I have nothing against its residents.
https://www.walshparkapartments.com/
“What they want and what they’re willing to pay is a separate question”
There are plenty of buyers in Chicago who can afford $675,000 with 6% rates. How do I know? Because there were plenty of sales at $800,000, $900,000 and $1 million all over Chicago before the rates rose.
Do people really think no one is ever going to buy again just because rates have risen? People have jobs. Good paying ones. And rents continue to rise. It is actually an inflation fighter to buy and lock in your monthly payment.
We’re in a period of adjustment because rates rose so quickly it caught many off guard. As rates stay elevated for the next 6 months, buyers will adjust to the “reality” of what their monthly payment will get them.
In Chicago, you CAN trade down. So they will. They will only care what the monthly payment is and what the bank pre-approves them for.
And since rents are even more expensive than buying in many cases, they will still gladly buy.
Anyone else see the Blockclub article about the bidding wars on apartments? One couple looked at 30 apartments and kept getting outbid. Maybe I need to do a post on what is going on out there in the rental market for all the readers who don’t live in Chicago and have no real insight into what is happening on the ground here.
It is red hot in the apartment market. Rents continue to rise. In many cases, it may make more sense to buy.
Today, at 10:30 a.m.:
“Finishes are all new and what you’d expect in an upscale rental. If a buyer was renting, buying this would not be a downgrade. Buyers don’t want to go in the reverse. They want updated with current finishes.”
Today, at 9:48 p.m.:
“In Chicago, you CAN trade down. So they will.”
Ah, um, I imagine there’s an explanation in there that connects with your theory that lots and lots of people who were renting $2k+/mo one beds in the city purchased $400k/mo SFHs in the burbs…but what, WHAT?
“Ah, um, I imagine there’s an explanation in there that connects with your theory that lots and lots of people who were renting $2k+/mo one beds in the city purchased $400k/mo SFHs in the burbs…but what, WHAT?”
Yes. If you could qualify for $800k at 4% rates but now it’s $675,000, then you can easily buy this loft and live happily ever after. Today’s buyers want the latest finishes. You are not moving from a 2/2 luxury apartment with quartz counter tops to a 2/2 condo with 20 year old finishes.
This isn’t California where there is NO opportunity to trade down. There are plenty of properties at all price points in Chicago.
Duh. Are all of you really THAT clueless?
In the 1970s and 80s, we know that people traded down as rates rose. Sales totally crashed at Volcker did his thing, like we are seeing right now. When the rates are raised fairly quickly, the market has to adjust.
Also, you don’t even live in Chicago and have no clue what is going on. Yes, thousands of people renting in the luxury apartment buildings in Chicago left when COVID hit and many of them decided to buy homes in the suburbs. How do we know this? Because thousands of sales happened in the Chicago suburbs, the highest sales in 15 years, and we also know no one is actually moving TO Illinois, they are all fleeing, yet someone was buying all of those homes.
I personally know several younger Millennials who did this, including one that was renting in Lincoln Park with a big dog and decided to flee their 1-bedroom rental. They now have 2 kids along with the dog. Lol.
They are priced out of moving back to the city and are, from what they’ve told me, perfectly happy in the suburbs. And yes, their house cost them less than what their rental was.
There are thousands of stories like theirs. The Baby Boomers should be SO thankful for the mass migration to the suburbs over the last 2 years. It allowed the inventory to be absorbed and they could sell and move to Florida.
Trading down doesn’t mean you are getting a property with old finishes.
Lol.
No.
Trading down means you were looking at $800k properties and now you’re looking at $675k properties because that’s what the 6% rates are making you do. This happened in the 1970s and early 1980s and it will happen now.
Thank goodness you can do it here in Chicago. It will provide some stability to our market.
That’s why we’re still seeing a fairly healthy sales rate, even with the high rates. It’s a 10 year low but I thought it would be worse with rates at 6%. But some people are still buying.
Also, the luxury market in Chicago and the suburbs over $4 million remains red hot. Go figure.
Also, there isn’t a lot of inventory out there and probably won’t be until February. It will keep a floor under prices here. Market times may get longer though.
“HVAC yes, even if you have a wall mounted unit with sophisticated chips
No on the appliances, unless you know of a HOA that covers this in a condo”
I meant that *neither* is included in this HOA (for either repair or replacement), and therefore have to be excluded from “SFH maintenance” when determining if $50k over 10 years is Papa Bear, Mama Bear or Baby Bear.
“You are not moving from a 2/2 luxury apartment with quartz counter tops to a 2/2 condo with 20 year old finishes.”
That 2/2 apartment is live $3k/month, right? $3k/month (+ nearly $100k) gets you a $400k condo. As already discussed, there ain’t any new 2/2s for $400k–and *especially* not in locations comparable to those lux apartments.
What’s the first maxim of RE? Location. And the second? Location. And the third? Location.
How are they *not* “trading down” unless they are able to spend a lot more monthly than they were on an apartment?
Oh, right–they’re buying crackerbox or project SFHs in the B+/A- burbs. Wherein they are trading *off* many positives of that lux 2/2 rental, for the positives of a SFH. Many would call that “trading down”, but I think it’s reasonable to see it as a compromise instead. But it sure as hell ain’t like for like, as proposed above.
“the luxury market in Chicago and the suburbs over $4 million remains red hot.”
There is ~12 months of supply, and ~12 of them sell a month, and that’s ‘red hot’, but merely pre-05 ‘typical’ sales with record low market times and very low months of supply is ‘ice cold’.
Realtor-speak is weird.
“ I meant that *neither* is included in this HOA (for either repair or replacement), and therefore have to be excluded from “SFH maintenance” when determining if $50k over 10 years is Papa Bear, Mama Bear or Baby Bear.”
If the HOA doesn’t cover these costs, it makes the fees that much worse Vs a SFH comp. (Was assuming a central system as I didn’t see a furnace)
“Was assuming a central system as I didn’t see a furnace”
you pointed us all to the floorplan in the prior listing–HVAC in the doghouse (with you).
“How are they not trading down”
The stock mark…
Real wage gro…
Magic money tree?
What are the A-/B+ Burbs?
Missed it
“What are the A-/B+ Burbs?”
Places I would actually call 2d tier burbs but don’t want to argue about.
“There is ~12 months of supply, and ~12 of them sell a month, and that’s ‘red hot’, but merely pre-05 ‘typical’ sales with record low market times and very low months of supply is ‘ice cold’.”
Huh?
We have hit last year’s number of sales at $4 million and up and it is just September. In some cities, they have sold more this year than 2020 and 2021 combined.
It is red hot. And it defies all expectations given the stock market. The rich don’t care. They are buying anyway.
“What are the A-/B+ Burbs?”
There is no such list because every human being has different needs and desires. Things one person may like, another may hate. Such a list would only be anon(tfo)’s OWN list and would be irrelevant to everyone else.
Thank goodness he realizes that and didn’t answer this question.
“There is no such list”
So, there’s no such thing as location, location, location.
Got it!
“So, there’s no such thing as location, location, location.”
Again, that’s all up to YOU. The dream location for one person, isn’t for another. One person may love the urban density of an Oak Park and another may hate that and thinks the big lots of St. Charles are pure bliss.
What is “location” to one person isn’t to another. One person may work in Schaumburg so Arlington Heights is just right for them but Arlington Heights wouldn’t work for someone working in Orlando Park and so they wouldn’t ever rank Arlington Heights high on their “list”.
Like I said, anon(tfo), you only know what is “best” for YOU. And that is fantastic. I think people should have a “dream” city or suburb or neighborhood where they really want to live. It is different for every person. No use listing out what is YOUR list because it will never be the same for someone else.
This is true of Chicago neighborhoods too. All have pros and cons. They have supporters and detractors. For someone who loves Streeterville, there is someone else who absolutely hates it and would never live there.
But I’m glad Chicago has so many lovely suburbs. Because it really does. Lots with great access to public transportation (subway or Metra), good schools, affordable homes, many with beautiful architecture.
We are really lucky to have so many beautiful places to live.
So, Stone Park or Ford Heights is an A suburb for someone?
No way to differentiate anything at all?
Every suburb gets a trophy?
“No way to differentiate anything at all?”
I guess one could start by comparing places with roughly the same square footage and condition, then compare? Say, (1) a 2,000 sq ft house that arguably needs a gut rehab, (2) a 2,500 sq ft house that is arguably move in ready but could use an interior paint job (with the kitchen and baths to get updated within the next 5-10 years), and (3) a 3,000 sq ft house that is brand new or just had a gut rehab. Where (1) – (3) are the most expensive, that’s an A, and as the prices go down from burb to burb, so do the grades.
Suburbs are like High Schools, doenst matter where you go/live
“So, Stone Park or Ford Heights is an A suburb for someone?”
You were asked to list “the best.”
The only way to do that would be the best for YOU.
The “best” is going to be different for every single human. You are being stupid now.
I can list 50 suburban cities that offer “something” that people may like. So??? What a stupid exercise and completely meaningless.
Someone lives in Joliet. Someone lives in Flossmoor. For those people, they may be their “A” suburb (whatever that means). Not everyone is YOU anon(tfo).
“You were asked to list “the best.””
No, in fact, I was not. Fake news! Just like the “purge law”.
I was asked “What are the A-/B+ Burbs?”
I answered “Places I would actually call 2d tier burbs but don’t want to argue about.”
You, incredibly, asserted “There is no such list”.
In other words, places I’d call B/B- burbs (ie, places I wouldn’t live, even if I considered living in a burb–which I have, as a timeshare, for HS purposes), but didn’t want to hear about how much “people Sabrina knows love [Suburb X]” and I’m just a snob.
There is *no doubt* a list, and it’s more or less what Nonny suggests.
Same thing goes for the City.
Or, are you (incredibly, again) claiming that there is no Green Zone in the City?
“I was asked “What are the A-/B+ Burbs?”
Correct. There is no way to “list” these. It’s stupid. Because it’s what YOU would determine A-/B+. Why does it matter what YOU think?
Come on.
“Why does it matter what YOU think?”
What I think is based on some combo of schools, housing stock, housing values, and nearby amenities (and lack of nearby negative externalities), with a little bit of local politics thrown in.
Your adamancy on this is interesting. Can’t rank things, because people will have different preferences about them–not something I’ve really come across before.
I hate Barrington
Barrington is an A burb
Not too difficult
You can’t do that on the Internet, JU!
For some people’s preferences, Barrington is *clearly* an F. And therefore, it’s entirely unratable.
There is no green zone in Chicago, because some people might prefer blocks with abandoned buildings, high crime, and no useful businesses in walking distance.
“There is no green zone in Chicago, because some people might prefer blocks with abandoned buildings, high crime, and no useful businesses in walking distance.”
GreenZone is a huge portion of the city, right? And I have never attempted to “rank” or say which neighborhood is the top or B+ or whatever. You cannot do it.
Also, some would prefer NOT to live in the GreenZone. Homes are selling just fine in Hyde Park. And they are building nearly $1 million houses in Woodlawn now. Someone is choosing that neighborhood as their first choice at that price, right?
So, again, rankings are simply your own choice and desires. Other people have different desires.
I mostly cover the GreenZone on this blog because that is what everyone who is reading it wants to talk about. It is what it is.
Acknowledging there is a green zone is ranking neighborhoods. Sure, in a less fine grained way, but still ranking.
And, no matter what you say, Ford Heights is an F suburb. Hard F.
“And they are building nearly $1 million houses in Woodlawn now. Someone is choosing that neighborhood as their first choice at that price, right?”
This – https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6450-S-Kimbark-Ave-Chicago-IL-60637/2061647966_zpid/?
Have they even started construction?
I’m not seeing anything over $770k thats sold and they all were before 6% interest rates
Would you like to bet on where the “$1MM Home” closes?
If y’all were capable of discussing without insulting each other, I would be interested in reading a tier list of suburbs (with qualifying metrics listed). I am not terribly knowledgeable of many Chicago suburbs.
I lived in Hyde Park and would never live there again, even if it has improved. It may now have a Whole Foods and Trader Joe’s, but it still lacks a Nordstroms and a Bloomingdale’s home store (or another comparable home store). The Target is even more useless than the Streeterville location.
“Acknowledging there is a green zone is ranking neighborhoods. Sure, in a less fine grained way, but still ranking.”
So if 15 neighborhoods are included in this “designation” then it’s now ranking?
LMFAO.
Let’s remember what the “GreenZone” is. It’s the neighborhoods that young people move to when they get out of college and move to Chicago. It’s always just been about the “popular” neighborhoods. It has changed, somewhat, over the 15 years I’ve been running this blog. Some neighborhoods have dropped off and a few have been added.
“If y’all were capable of discussing without insulting each other, I would be interested in reading a tier list of suburbs (with qualifying metrics listed). I am not terribly knowledgeable of many Chicago suburbs.”
Now’s your chance anon(tfo). You can spread your wisdom about what makes some suburbs A and others A-/B+.
Good luck.
Participation trophies for all the suburbs.
The Mayor and council love every one of them (even if they’re abusive) and that’s enough.
Sorry, Lauren, there’s no way to tell a good suburb from a bad one, just as there is no way to tell a good school district from a bad one, an expensive home from a cheap one, nor a stupid kid from a smart one. It’s solely about what feels right to you.
“It’s always just been about the “popular” neighborhoods. It has changed, somewhat, over the 15 years I’ve been running this blog. Some neighborhoods have dropped off and a few have been added.”
What neighborhoods have dropped off the Greenzone List in the last 15 years?
“What neighborhoods have dropped off the Greenzone List in the last 15 years?”
That’s a good question, but the answer would imply a 2d tier of the GZ, and I’ve now been convinced that is simply impossible.
All neighborhoods are equal; some are better for you, personally, than others, but that’s it.
“What neighborhoods have dropped off the Greenzone List in the last 15 years?”
Lincoln Square is an example. No one cares about it and young people are no longer interested in moving there unless they HAVE to.
No one cares about it when I crib on properties there.
“Sorry, Lauren, there’s no way to tell a good suburb from a bad one”
Stupid is as stupid does on this blog.
What is “good”???
Good to YOU anon(tfo). Perhaps you have a horse so Barrington rocks. Or you want to live in an unincorporated area so Wheaton may be your dream. Maybe you want to live on a river so it’s St Charles? Or you were a fan of Risky Business and always wanted to live in the North Shore.
Perhaps you want city urbanism without the city so you love Oak Park or Evanston?
Or maybe you are a fan of mid-century architecture so Olympia Fields is on your list.
If you’ve got kids and you want to get them into USC or Washington U, then maybe you want to live in downtown Hinsdale.
I could go on and on. What is “good” to a buyer? Every single buyer has a different criteria.
The GreenZone, by the way, was NEVER about “ranking” or saying what neighborhood was the “best.” Never.
Good luck. Again, I really wish anon(tfo) would help Lauren out. But he won’t because it is IMPOSSIBLE to help her out without knowing what HER criteria is for the “good” or “best” suburbs and what she is looking for.
“For some people’s preferences, Barrington is *clearly* an F. And therefore, it’s entirely unratable.”
Yep. Barrington wouldn’t even be on the list of many who worked in Fulton Market, for instance.
“What I think is based on some combo of schools, housing stock, housing values, and nearby amenities (and lack of nearby negative externalities), with a little bit of local politics thrown in.”
Like I said, YOUR criteria anon(tfo). If your kids are grown, why do you care much about the schools?
And what does “the housing stock” even mean? Lol. It’s old? New? On big lots? Brick? Mid-century? Historic? Ranches? Two stories? There are condo buildings? Townhouses? More apartments than condos in the town?
This is what I mean. You cannot “rank” the suburbs.
And what does “nearby amenities” mean? It has a park district with a swimming pool? A golf course? Access to the Metra? Or hiking or biking trails? A bookstore or movie theater? A Costco?
Lauren, if you want some “rankings” you can look at those “most livable” lists that some in the national media put out. Naperville, for instance, routinely finishes near the top.
Barrington, Wheaton, St Charles, Northshore burbs, OP, Hinsdale = A Suburbs
OF & Evanston = B
Not difficult
Once again, you don’t have to want to live there to concur that it’s an “A Suburb”
“ Lincoln Square is an example. No one cares about it and young people are no longer interested in moving there unless they HAVE to.”
No one cares because it wasn’t GZ
There was/is a null set of buyers cross shopping LS w/ LP, BT, LV
“If your kids are grown, why do you care much about the schools?”
I’m buying a 5/3 SFH, and know who’s fairly likely to buy it from me?
Why do Realtors put “Evanston Schools!” in NE Skokie listings–to ensure the biggest market.
If I’m buying a 1400 sf 1 bed, pretty obvious–all else equal–I’d want a district with the lowest school taxes.
“if you want some “rankings” you can look at those “most livable” lists that some in the national media put out. Naperville, for instance, routinely finishes near the top.”
NO!
I have heard that it is **IMPOSSIBLE** to rank suburbs, so such a thing cannot be recommended to someone–it is inherently unreliable, and actually just bullshit being spouted.
“I have heard that it is **IMPOSSIBLE** to rank suburbs, so such a thing cannot be recommended to someone–it is inherently unreliable, and actually just bullshit being spouted.”
They aren’t “ranking.” They are listing the most livable with their criteria so you can see if it matches your criteria. They also have lists of the “happiest” and the “greenest” etc etc.
This is why all the “best cities to retire in” list the criteria up front and some people get mad when you don’t include weather and Buffalo shows up on the list. Lol. Because, for them, that’s their #1 criteria and there is no way they would retire in Buffalo.
But basically it IS impossible to rank them, which is why these lists are taken with a grain of salt. You might find one that has most of your criteria and it gives you some ideas but you really have to go experience them for yourself. Because, like I said, every human has different things they look for in a place to live.
“I’m buying a 5/3 SFH, and know who’s fairly likely to buy it from me?”
That’s YOU. Someone else may not care. Maybe they are going to live there for 30 years anyway and the schools aren’t going to matter in who buys it from them. Maybe they are going to buy a condo and don’t care either.
Again, all of this is about YOU. It has nothing to do with what another person finds important or cares about.
“No one cares because it wasn’t GZ”
When I started this blog in 2007, Lincoln Square was the hottest neighborhood in the city. It literally saw the largest price appreciation of the entire GreenZone. Yes, it WAS the GreenZone.
Like I said, some neighborhoods have dropped out of it. Lincoln Square has dropped off of it.
“Barrington, Wheaton, St Charles, Northshore burbs, OP, Hinsdale = A Suburbs
OF & Evanston = B
Not difficult”
Says the guy who has lived in Indiana for 30 years. Lol.
You can’t make up this stuff.
Really, you are out of the loop JohnnyU. Is Elmhurst not A? LaGrange? Clarendon Hills? Downers Grove? Geneva? Naperville?
Arlington Heights? Palatine?
Libertyville?
Glen Ellyn?
I’m not sure Highwood is an “A” suburb. Sorry. I’m not a big fan of Glencoe either.
What about Deer Park? Long Grove? Are those A, B or C?
Riverside is likely an A, right? Or is that a B?
What about south suburbs like Flossmoor or Homewood? Or Palos Park?
Check out this Palos Park beauty. Gorgeous.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Palos-Park/8614-123rd-St-60464/home/13194363
Was my list all encompassing or just based on the cities you listed?
Is Elmhurst one of those cities where you can find an updated home for less than $300k that’s walkable to their downtown?
Elmhurst is an A, though the area by the gun club is lower/less desirable.
Still not bucktown.
“This is why all the “best cities to retire in” list the criteria up front and some people get mad when you don’t include weather and Buffalo shows up on the list. Lol. Because, for them, that’s their #1 criteria and there is no way they would retire in Buffalo.”
I grew up in Buffalo. A lot of people there will insist that they have the best weather in the country. I am not kidding. Over the past 30+ years of going back to visit, unless there happens to be a snowstorm happening (and I’ve gone only in summer for 20 years), all I hear is “ya can’t beat the weather.” Totally bonkers.
“When I started this blog in 2007, Lincoln Square was the hottest neighborhood in the city. It literally saw the largest price appreciation of the entire GreenZone. Yes, it WAS the GreenZone.
Like I said, some neighborhoods have dropped out of it. Lincoln Square has dropped off of it.”
I cant believe that I’m defending LS ever being GZ. If you’re using appreciation is LP out of the green zone as well?
LS
Median sales price Aug 17 – $350k
Median Sales Price Aug 22 – $485k
LP
Median sales price Aug 17 – $570k
Median Sales Price Aug 22 – $630k
I eagerly await your word salad/drunken ramblings trying to square the circle
“They aren’t “ranking.””
Okay…
“They are listing the most livable with their criteria ”
Uh, that’s “ranking”
“Lincoln Square has dropped off of it.”
That’s YOUR opinion.
For some people, it’s Green Zone.
[this whole discussion]
You can tell whose kids always got trophies and a pizza party.
This is the chaotic conversation I love reading. Lol
It’s not hard. Winnetka A, Villa Park C, Kankakee F. Quality of housing, proximity to lake, shopping
Anyways, I don’t want to live anywhere below a walkscore of 90, so no suburbs for me. I have been spending about a third of my time in the suburbs of KC. I hate having to drive everywhere and shopping is terrible! No part of KC is above a C (Leawood). So boring
“That’s YOUR opinion.”
I run the blog, in case you haven’t noticed. I have always defined the GreenZone.
“I cant believe that I’m defending LS ever being GZ. If you’re using appreciation is LP out of the green zone as well?”
GreenZone wasn’t about appreciation. It was where people wanted to move out of college. And they were all moving to Lincoln Square during the boom years due to being priced out of other neighborhoods. Prices soared there during the boom as a result. But then they didn’t, and haven’t, for 15 years.
Because now, young people don’t want to live in Lincoln Square (they probably can’t tell you where it is). It’s all about the West Loop/Fulton Market now.
“Over the past 30+ years of going back to visit, unless there happens to be a snowstorm happening (and I’ve gone only in summer for 20 years), all I hear is “ya can’t beat the weather.” Totally bonkers.”
They’re not wrong anonny. They DO have the best weather. They don’t have a single day over 100 and as climate change worsens, people who live with 3 to 4 months over 100 are going to find that very, very attractive.
I predict Buffalo and much of the rest of the rust belt will rise again over the next 50 years simply because of the resources, including water, and that it won’t be as hot there. It also has food.
“It’s not hard. Winnetka A, Villa Park C, Kankakee F. Quality of housing, proximity to lake, shopping”
Kankakee is not a suburb. Sorry Lauren. Lol.
Winnetka has shopping? I’d rather live in Highland Park.
See- it’s really not that easy. Everyone has different criteria.
Here’s a good ranking of the most affordable suburbs.
https://www.redfin.com/blog/affordable-chicago-suburbs/
“I run the blog, in case you haven’t noticed. I have always defined the GreenZone.”
LOL
https://media.giphy.com/media/B1TMcmoBAaSZi/giphy.gif
“GreenZone wasn’t about appreciation. It was where people wanted to move out of college. And they were all moving to Lincoln Square during the boom years due to being priced out of other neighborhoods. Prices soared there during the boom as a result. But then they didn’t, and haven’t, for 15 years.”
You just noted appreciation “It literally saw the largest price appreciation of the entire GreenZone.”
So then based on where grads wanted to move – Gold Coast has never been GZ?
“Because now, young people don’t want to live in Lincoln Square (they probably can’t tell you where it is). It’s all about the West Loop/Fulton Market now.”
So LP, LV & BT are no longer GZ?
I prefer Clio’s definition. Seemed much more sane and sober and less arbitrary
“Winnetka has shopping? I’d rather live in Highland Park.”
I hate Winnetka more than Barrington, and anyone claiming its not an A suburb is trolling or legit insane
““I run the blog, in case you haven’t noticed. I have always defined the GreenZone.””
You have defined *YOUR* (or “a”) green zone, not THE green zone.
“You have defined *YOUR* (or “a”) green zone, not THE green zone.”
The person who dubbed it the “greenzone” based off of what happened in the Iraq War was the one who defined it. And that wasn’t me.
“I hate Winnetka more than Barrington, and anyone claiming its not an A suburb is trolling or legit insane”
Sorry, not my “A” for many, many reasons.
See how that works? It’s all about my own personal preference.
Here is what the original comment was in 2008 about the “green zone”:
“I live out by 63rd and California. We call the amenity-rich, low-crime, upscale area around the center of the City the green zone because it’s much like the green zone in Iraq–an area that has all the amenities and resources which is walled off from the rest of the country to keep out violence, poverty, and non-collegiate working poor.”
“Sorry, not my “A” for many, many reasons.
See how that works? It’s all about my own personal preference.”
No its not
Sane/sober people can dislike something, yet acknowledge is value/rank
It really isnt that difficult
“The person who dubbed it the “greenzone” based off of what happened in the Iraq War was the one who defined it.”
Correct! But you wrote: “I have always defined the GreenZone.”
Anyway, going to the original (immutable!!) definition:
“We call the amenity-rich, low-crime, upscale area around the center of the City the green zone”
So, either Lincoln Square was and is those things, or wasn’t and still isn’t. Lets take them in turn:
1. amenity-rich–probably. restaurants, shopping, transit, parks, library, etc. hasn’t changed much since ’07, possibly slightly better now.
2. low-crime–true in ’07 and now.
3. upscale–Looks about the same to me; slight uptick in the dining/retail mix, particularly on Lawrence.
4. around the center–that hasn’t changed at all–kinda far then and now.
Fair to not include it in the GZ for being too far out from the city center and/or for not being ‘upscale’ enough, but if that’s the basis, then it never was GZ.
btw: Post with the introduction of green zone:
https://cribchatter.com/?p=6072
“So, either Lincoln Square was and is those things, or wasn’t and still isn’t. Lets take them in turn:”
Lincoln Square was originally in the GreenZone. Fulton Market was not. Logan Square was not. I would put both of them in it now.
Real estate changes! Imagine that. Neighborhoods change. Remember when people were throwing bricks through the window of the Starbucks at North/Milwaukee/Damen because of gentrification? Lol. That was just 20 years ago. And now there are Starbucks all over that neighborhood and homes sell for $3 million (guess the brick throwers got that right.)
But it wasn’t that long ago.
I’m betting Bronzeville may move into the GreenZone soon and Hyde Park/Kenwood should probably be in it already. Once you get a Small Cheval, you’re in the club. Lol.
So, you’re working off a different definition.
Your *personal* definition. Fair enough.
But–again–if you are putting things in and out of the GZ, you are “ranking” them.
“But–again–if you are putting things in and out of the GZ, you are “ranking” them.”
Saying something is in a designated area is “ranking” now?
So when JohnC is on this site saying a property is in Wicker Park, and not Bucktown, every few weeks, he is somehow “ranking” it?
LMFAO.
If you search for “GreenZone” on this site, it is clear that we have had numerous debates over the years about what neighborhoods are “in” and what are “out” of it.
In 2007, was Andersonville in it? No.
In 2022, is Andersonville now in it? I don’t know. Maybe. Andersonville got hot, but now it seems it’s not again. But agents tell me that if buyers can’t find something in Logan Square, their back up neighborhood is Andersonville.
There are neighborhoods that come in, and out.
Again, real estate is always changing. If you told me 15 years ago that they’d be building 8,000 apartments in Fulton Market and that everyone would want to live there, I would have thought you were crazy. But here we are.
Oh, also, River North is pretty dead now right? It used to be the hip, young person neighborhood. But it doesn’t seem to be anymore.
“I’m betting Bronzeville may move into the GreenZone soon and Hyde Park/Kenwood should probably be in it already. Once you get a Small Cheval, you’re in the club. Lol.”
LMAO
You’ve been hyping Bronzeville for a while. Its where dumb money and shills went.
Total clownshoes
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/3804-S-Wabash-Ave-Chicago-IL-60653/80823623_zpid/
“Saying something is in a designated area is “ranking” now?
So when JohnC is on this site saying a property is in Wicker Park, and not Bucktown, every few weeks, he is somehow “ranking” it?”
This is a completely disingenuous argument.
I’ve always considered the Greenzone(s) to be:
Lincoln Park
Lakeview
Gold Coast
Streeterville
River North
West Loop
South Loop
Lincoln Square
Bucktown
Wicker Park
Andersonville
Logan Square
Hyde Park
Debatable:
North Kenwood
Bronzeville
Albany Park
Rogers Park
Ukrainian Village
Pilsen
Uptown
For me it has always been about amenities, housing stock, desirability, public transit, significant professional class demographics, relatively low crime, etc…. but sure everyone has their own list and criteria.
“it has always been about amenities, housing stock, desirability, public transit, significant professional class demographics, relatively low crime, etc”
This. And that’s just a tweak on the originator’s definition.
But Sabrina says that it’s mostly about what is “hot” with a mushy, younger, demographic. Which is mostly an outcome of the originator’s definition.
“This. And that’s just a tweak on the originator’s definition.”
Ba ha ha. Here we go again. Every couple of years there are a bunch of comments where we “debate” what is in the GreenZone. And every time it is never the same list.
And that’s because it changes. It is not a static thing. Neighborhoods change.
Lol.
“You’ve been hyping Bronzeville for a while. Its where dumb money and shills went.”
It’s only one of the hottest neighborhoods in the city. Ba ha ha.
Typical for this blog. For 15 years people have been completely wrong about Chicago, the popular neighborhoods, home prices, what’s hot and what is not. So why change now? Lol.
Logan Square and Hyde Park were never in the original GZ. But they might be now.
Not sure about West Town. Parts of it might be now.
This is what I’ve been saying. Things change. Neighborhoods change. Some will drop out and some will drop in.
So, as things change, some neighborhoods go from being A neighborhoods to B or C neighborhoods.
Got it.
“So, as things change, some neighborhoods go from being A neighborhoods to B or C neighborhoods.”
And some go to A. This is why I don’t rank them. Constantly changing. No way to rank them because the changes are my own personal preference. Just like which suburbs are “good” is too. And work-from-home is really going to throw things for a loop because now being near public transportation may not matter. Maybe Peterson Woods in Chicago may surge in popularity since people no longer have to go downtown or to some other office area.
I mean, Lauren pretty much made my point when she said she likes suburbs near the lake and would put Winnetka in the A. Someone else might want to be near a river or hates the lake (colder etc). It’s all about YOU. That’s why you can’t rank the suburbs other than for your own personal preferences.
GreenZone, remember, has nothing to do with “rankings.”
That’s all in your own little mind anon(tfo).