Get a 2-Bedroom in the Historic Drake Tower: 179 E. Lake Shore Drive in the Gold Coast
This 2-bedroom unit in the Drake Tower Apartments at 179 E. Lake Shore Drive in the Gold Coast has been on the market since June 2010.
It has been reduced $76,000 in that time.
The Drake Tower was designed by Marshall & Fox and finished just before the Great Depression in 1929.
It has 68 units with lake and city views.
As Clio has pointed out, the building has access to the Drake Hotel amenities including the business center, the exercise room and the parking.
Parking is valet at $100 each per car per month.
This is the only 2-bedroom currently listed for sale in the building.
It has the original hardwood floors and crown moldings.
The listing says the second bedroom is currently used as a library.
It has white cabinets, white and black appliances and white counter tops in the kitchen.
The unit has central air but the listing doesn’t say anything about washer/dryer in the unit.
With all the newer construction luxury buildings, does the Drake Tower still evoke prestige?
Marie Campbell at Koenig & Strey Real Living has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #903: 2 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1422 square feet
- I couldn’t find a prior sales price due to it being a co-op
- Originally listed in June 2010 at $775,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $699,000
- Assessments of $2655 a month (includes heat, doorman, tax, cable)
- Taxes of $8130
- Central Air
- Valet parking for 2 cars at $100 per month each
- Washer/Dryer in the unit??? (not mentioned in the listing)
- Bedroom #1: 14×21
- Bedroom #2: 17×16
pretty cool building.i know nothing about this area,love that library.maybe clio could give us a tour.
I’ve seen better deals for the money in that neighborhood. Nice place, but not as nice as I expected
And the assessments are killers. I hope that includes everything, including bringing your mail to your door and picking up your dry-cleaning.
Holy crap $2655 a month?! I thought the valet was a steal at $100 a month, now I know why!
@Laura, The assessment includes tax. I don’t know if $30K is typical tax for a unit in a building like this but if it is, think of it as an assessment of $1 and tax of $2654/month. 😀
Ah it’s a co-op.
I would buy it just to ride in the old school “the help” elevator where the guy has to do the lever thingy for you.
a ride in that is worth the ass fee each month.
I wonder if you have to meet a certain standard to be approved by board to buy this place?
It’s tough to value these condotels as there are so few of them. Honestly this one doesn’t seem that out of line on maintenance costs give the age of the building and the included amenities.
If you’ve got the money and want hotel amenities in your residence in Chicago there are only a few options and this is one of them.
If this is really a co-op, the “assessments” are actually monthly maintenance, right, and the taxes included in them aren’t tax-deductible, right?
Still, with $2700 a month including heat and taxes, you’re way ahead of most of the properties in this area.
My impression is that co-op assessments are set just to “keep out the riff-raff.” The tax is $678/mo. so the remainder of the assessment is $1,977 — astronomical! For the same monthly outlay you could buy a $900k condo (much bigger than this unit) or a $1 mil SFH. Seems to me that the premium is purely for exclusivity.
“Seems to me that the premium is purely for exclusivity.”
or maybe the upkeep on a OLD historic building. we would be thanking these owners for paying a civic duty fee to keep our wonderful history intact.
*would
should be should
Ahhhh – thanks Sabrina – what a great way to start the morning.. Although all of you know that I absolutely love the Drake, there are both positives and negatives (obviously). Here is a list I came up with:
POSITIVES:
– wonderful staff – you really feel as though you are a king!!
– wonderful neighbors – no need to be a snob here – everyone is in the same boat
– AMENITIES: use of the Drake Hotel is priceless (well, obviously, not – but you know what I mean). There is nothing like getting up on a day when it is – 100degrees and not having to walk outside for coffee/lunch. Also, you can meet your guests in the lobby, have a drink in the lounge, talk downstairs without having them come up to your place. You don’t get claustrophobic because the lobby and lounges are so expansive. You also have access (? allowed or not) to all of the ballrooms – there were MANY afternoons that I would sneak into some of the expansive rooms overlooking the lake, bring a book, find a chair and read. You can almost imagine the whole place being yours!!! – actually, sometimes I felt like Jack Nicholson in the Shining!
– wonderful location- walking distance to many great restaurants/shops, etc.
– direct access to taxis – great in inclement weather
– safe environments ( for those nights you are stumbling in at 4 AM – you know that no weirdo is going to follow you in)
– turn-about – awesome mechanical car turnabout in the front. I don’t know why I got such a kick out of it.
NEGATIVES:
– price – although the price of the units is a little high, assessments are the killer.
– units – they are NOT that nice. Most are small and the building is VERY old. The hallways are dark and ugly and remind me of a slum building.
– outdoor space – very few (?any) units have any private outdoor space.
– resale nightmare – because assessments are so high and because very few people are familiar with this type of living, resales are practically non-existent. It is not uncommon for units to be on sale for YEARS and YEARS – so you better be ready and able to afford several years to assessments even if you want to move!!
– neighbors – although they are wonderful wonderful people, they are rather elderly – seriously, I think I might have been the youngest person by 20-30 years in the building. I don’t mind – but many people won’t have much in common with these folks.
Wow – I really want to move back – someone please buy my crappy unit at 159!!!!
“or a $1 mil SFH.”
There are no $1 mil SFHs on LSD nor near here so not really competing with that market. It’s comparable to 900k condos though.
What other hotel-condos are there in chicago?
The only other large complex that comes to mind is Trump and it is so incredibly different from the Drake that the two can’t be compared. I would never ever even consider buying at the Trump. Hate it hate it hate it!!!
nice view of the neighbor’s brick wall from the living room.
feh
“clio on March 15th, 2011 at 7:52 am
POSITIVES:
– wonderful neighbors – no need to be a snob here – everyone is in the same boat”
I know, Clio, this is indeed a positive because it is so exhausting to have to be a snob around riff raff. In this building you’re surrounded by your own kind and don’t have to put on airs. That should be mentioned in the listing.
Would someone like to tell me why Trump Tower is so hated on in this forum? I’ve seen it called ‘very tacky’ on another post as well.
Would like to know, or point me to a previous post that articulates that opinion…
Thanks
nwzimmer – I had really high hopes for the Trump and really wanted to like it there – but everything I saw was awful:
– lack of intimacy/special feel: If you are going for the luxury market, nothing sells faster or better than exclusivity. At Trump there is absolutely no feelings of exclusivity. The lobby is full of naer-do-well looking people (you feel as though you are in the lobby of a tacky Las Vegas Hotel).
– bad location: in my opinion, it is in a terrible location. It is on a really dark street that is desolate and scary at night – I can’t even imagine walking from Michigan avenue to the front door without looking over my shoulder.
– units: I don’t like the contemporary style and all of the units looked somewhat generic.
but most importantly is the overall “feel” of the place – you really truly feel as though you are in a cheesy las vegas hotel full of tourists and weirdos. No comparison at all between the trump and drake (or, for that matter between the Trump and Palmolive, 4 seasons, Park Hyatt, Ritz Carleton, Elyesian, etc. )
dollface, I think you are absolutely correct. It is nice to relax and let your guard down with your neighbors.
Folks what is a co-op? I understand the concept for a business but not sure what it means for a condo.
Also does anyone understand the layout of kitchen? Can it be opened up?
@ Clio, are you trying to stop this place from selling with the shining analogy? ; )
That is one of the scariest movies of all time, I never got to see the whole thing. It was to disturbing.
I don’t believe this building is classified as a condotel.
A condotel is where the units are basically glorified hotel rooms (may or may not have a working kitchen/kitchenette) and the unit owner is able to rent their unit as a hotel room through the hotel. Part of the allure of owning in a condotel was supposedly the room rates would cover a large portion of your investment costs. For example, if the vacancy rate is 90% then 90% of the time, your unit would be rented out…. didn’t quite work out that way. Trump, Aqua, Elysian, the failed Shanghai have specific units that are condotels. Most lenders won’t touch them with a 10 foot pole now and those that will typically want very large down payments.
miumiu,
a co-op is a type of ownership where all of the residents basically own the building – each person gets a share and a particular unit. The advantages are many:
– private sales – not public record
– exclusivity – you have to apply to get in – not just anybody (even with money) can get in – this way you can choose your neighbors.
– tax and liability benefits – depending what state you live in and how you handle the sales/ownership of your property, the coop can sometimes be treated as an investment and not home ownership. My CPA and attorney tried to explain it to me, but it was confusing and I wasn’t interested at the time – but I will try and find out.
“Also does anyone understand the layout of kitchen? Can it be opened up?”
The funny thing about these units is that nobody uses the kitchens!!! Most people living here do not cook at all. I never ever cooked a single meal at my place (although I did use the microwave).
Russ – you are correct – the coop and hotel are separate and you CANNOT rent out your unit for a night, month, year or any length of time. I seriously wonder why more developments don’t have a set up like the Drake – does anyone know? It seems like a win-win situation.
Thanks Clio. It seems like a small advantage to me for such high assessments, but I am not picky about my neighbors. I can see that this can be valuable to some.
As for the kitchen, I love cooking so cooking space is important to me. I spent one semester in a dorm where I could not cook and it was just terrible for me.
i’m sure some people use kitchens clio, as some people enjoy cooking as a hobby
“Would someone like to tell me why Trump Tower is so hated on in this forum”
I like it and have a family friend that lives on the transition floor (46 or something) with 12′ ceilings…right next to Pat Kane!
a-fed, we must have the exact opposite tastes (you seem to love the Trump and 111 E. Chestnut – both buildings I absolutely hate). That is so interesting….
As for being neighbors with Patrick Kane – you can take it as a positive, neutral or negative (ie not everybody would be thrilled about living next to a 23 year old).
“i’m sure some people use kitchens clio, as some people enjoy cooking as a hobby”
uhhh – not when you are in your 80s, 90s, and 100s!!!!! (only half- joking, there)
Thanks for the information, Clio. It seems like a good building for the right person. I’m in my 30’s and would love to be in this environment. I like old, quiet people and the amenities. Now I just need the money, lol.
I’m a red wings fan, so I’ll stay away from the Pat Kane comments. He seems like a nice kid, but I’m not sure I want to live next door to someone that young.
was this the mayfair hotel? helped a relative move some lamps she purchased at their liquidation. I think the Palm used to be located here as well.
“was this the mayfair hotel?”
Mayfair was/is 181 East Lake Shore Drive
“I think the Palm used to be located here as well.”
The Palm was in the Mayfair.
Clio – I dont love 111 by any means just think it’s once of the nicer, older building in GC (and if your BMW, Audi, or Honda breaks down, you don’t have to go very far! jk)
And yeah, agree with the Kaner comment, pros and cons. Another family friend of mine lives in the ajoining LV townhome with Partick Sharpe! Go Hawks!
yeah, I found that too. I thought 179 and 181 might be the same building. but it looks like 181 is now 189 from streetview.
re: Mayfair–
Interesting article from the time of the conversion:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/18/realestate/signs-of-an-invigorated-luxury-market-in-chicago.html?src=pm
“you have to apply to get in – not just anybody (even with money) can get in – this way you can choose your neighbors.”
Sounds like a rural town in Mississippi.
“units – they are NOT that nice. Most are small and the building is VERY old. The hallways are dark and ugly and remind me of a slum building.”
“neighbors – although they are wonderful wonderful people, they are rather elderly”
Sounds lovely…
This is the type of place I would buy if I had the money and didn’t care about the difficulty in selling a place with such high assessments. Elderly neighbors are great too! I’ve always liked East Lake Shore Drive.
Is this the building that has the turntable for cars in front? I love that old turntable.
Some co-ops keep out the riff-raff by disallowing mortgages. Cash only, plus proof of other liquid assets.
co-ops are a great way of keeping racial and socioeconomic discrimination alive and well for the elite
Who needs two cars if you live here? Can you rent one?
Maybe this is mean, but what is wrong with socioeconomic discrimination? I would really prefer to live among middle class people. My friends in more economically diverse areas have lots of problems with little irritating things like neighbors who abandon rusted out cars on the block and people who let their house fall into disrepair.
”
“you have to apply to get in – not just anybody (even with money) can get in – this way you can choose your neighbors.”
Sounds like a rural town in Mississippi. ”
Sounds like someone who’s never been to rural Mississippi.
And other little irratating things like knocking you over the head and taking your wallet or breaking your window and taking your stuff.
“My friends in more economically diverse areas have lots of problems with little irritating things like neighbors who abandon rusted out cars on the block”
If this is in the city, it’s pretty easy to get an abandoned car towed. Just don’t let on that you were the one who called.
“Maybe this is mean, but what is wrong with socioeconomic discrimination? I would really prefer to live among middle class people.”
Co-ops generally would discriminate against the middle class and upper-middle class, or use that as a proxy to exclude other undesirables they can’t legally exclude. You’re the one who couldn’t move in with your silly proletariat job and your silly dirty children who want to live with you, even if you would easily afford a $700k condo with monthly maintenance/taxes of $2700.
Those people you refer to aren’t the ones buying in co-ops
its more a racial and religious discrimination thing than economic but it certainly plays into whether or not they will allow you into their little club
There is a fine line. On one hand, given that your neighbors inability to manage their own finances or their instability can ruin the finances of all the other residents, I think it is prudent to know who your neighbors are going to be these days. With that said, surely no one believes that racial, ethnic, and other discriminatory practices are not still around.
There are plenty of stories of co-ops in NY telling celebrities to keep on looking elsewhere since the neighbors don’t want the paparazzi and Charlie Sheen like shenanigans hanging out in the building. They don’t care how much money they have…
Sounds like a rural town in Mississippi. ”
I was born and raised in West Rogers Park/Evanston until age 30. My husband was raised in Hyde Park area. We are both temporarily living in and around Rural Mississippi. (work related move…been here for 3 years) I can speak as an expert on housing. If you have the money, you can pretty much buy anywhere. But they will NOT RENT to you anywhere. So if you are renting, the statement below is true.
“you have to apply to get in – not just anybody (even with money) can get in – this way you can choose your neighbors.”
I have no idea who any of these celebs are. Either I am too old or they are not Tennis or football (the real one that actually you play with you foot) players.
This reminds me of this trip I took from SFO to ORD and I was seated by some dud. At the end of the flight he told me it was so nice to be seated by someone that would not ask him for autograph or a photo. I told the guy I had no idea who he was and then he mentioned some team he played for and I still had no clue what sport did the team even belong to….hehe…but felt bad to tell him I have no clue so just pretended I knew what he was talking about : )
“My friends in more economically diverse areas have lots of problems with little irritating things like neighbors who abandon rusted out cars on the block”
Stop calling it “economically diverse” when you mean poor. It’s as if its a curse word to say “poor” or “low income” or “transitional” neighborhood. Diverse implies the entire spectrum billions to middle class to poor. Saying “economically diverse” as a PC term is too much. Poverity exists and no one wants to be poor…being PC doesn’t change this.
While I understand the legitimacy of having rules for shared living spaces, think condo rules that people have to abide by, I find the notion of screening appalling. It is based on presumptions and is discriminatory in nature. If someone is badly behaved, sure make him pay fines or something but in a country that calls itself land of the free, housing discrimination is a shame.
http://www.theroot.com/buzz/nyc-landmark-dakota-accused-racial-discrimination
The Dakota is one of, if not the most prestigious address in NYC.
Buddy Fletcher is one of the biggest traders on Wall Street.
“While I understand the legitimacy of having rules for shared living spaces, think condo rules that people have to abide by, I find the notion of screening appalling. ”
But the structure is essentially a partnership owning the building. Do you want to go into business with just whoever can make the initial investment? If you’re a renter, should you have to accept whoever as a roommate?
I’d say that the gold coast is pretty economically diverse judging from a stroll from the Jewel to the lake…
I would be interested in this unit if I were as old as the building itself. I am much younger and hence, not interested in living among the octogenarians and older.
I am not sure why a condo/co-op is allowed to approve buyers but a suburban community, gated or otherwise with an HOA is not allowed to do the same.
Co-ops can discriminate. Condos and HOAs can’t.
“I am not sure why a condo/co-op is allowed to approve buyers”
Condo isn’t. Co-op is. A subdivision with an HOA *could* organize as a co-op, I suppose, but that would put them at a *huge* competitive disadvantage for resales.
If a building wants to keep me out for whatever reason, that’s fine by me. If a person is very wealthy and only wants to live with other wealthy people, that’s fine with me too. For that matter, I would not want to live in a building with the stereotypical celebrity who is loud an obnoxious. I would prefer to live with “old money” in a co-op that excludes celebrities.
That is what I don’t get about co-ops. What business is there?
It seems to me that if someone can afford a place and shows financial capacity to make payments, there is no sense in filtering them by their status. Tolerance is part of being civilized, I might not like my unfit neighbor cutting his grass shirtless, but hell I don’t have to watch him. Maybe he does not like something about us too. As long as he is not doing anything against the law more power to him and hope he won’t develop skin cancer.
“But the structure is essentially a partnership owning the building. Do you want to go into business with just whoever can make the initial investment? If you’re a renter, should you have to accept whoever as a roommate?”
“What business is there?”
Owing and operating an apartment building/private club. You can reject that construct, if you like, but that’s pretty much it.
What’s the history of co-ops and condos? Did one clearly precede the other? What precipitated the introduction on the latecomer?
Roommates are a different story, as is your spouse who sleeps in the same bed as you. I mean you cannot change the statement of the problem, draw conclusions and then apply it back to the original issue. If I were renting a place, I could not care less if the dude was putting his personal items on the couch. If he was my roommate, I would ask him to limit his clutter to his room. How can you even bring about the roommate analogy is beyond me.
That is where rules come in, like don’t walk with your outdoor shoes in the pool area. Where does considerations of age, ethnicity, religion and all those come in? Why do you need pre-screening for something like this? You are making assumptions that people from certain backgrounds will behave differently. That is discrimination.
It is like assuming just because someone is 20 he is going to throw parties every week and trashing the place. You cannot however in my opinion devoid him from opportunity of owning a place based on assumptions. Now if he really does that you can deal with him according to rules and terms of the contract.
“Owing and operating an apartment building/private club.”
Sean… maybe, but it is kind of stretch to deny someone from buying an additional unit when they are paying cash, particularly when they already own units in the building. I’m sure there is more to the story and some petty high society politics at play as well. He is both gay and black, not too mention fairly young. He was a super star trader making a couple of million a year in his early 20s. I’m sure some of the older folks there aren’t used to be around that type of guy…
The point really is just that co-ops can and do discriminate. Madonna was denied a co-op too. You can google all kinds of stories of upper westside co-ops denying units to very very rich celeb types for a variety reasons.
“What’s the history of co-ops and condos? Did one clearly precede the other? What precipitated the introduction on the latecomer?”
Condominium ownership is established by statute. Without the enabling law, they couldn’t exist. The laws weren’t passed in the US until the 50s.
Coop is (basically) corporate ownership of an apartment building, with the shareholders having exclusive right to lease specified apartments from the “corporation”.
Good thing that co-op owners wouldn’t want me living by them — the feeling is mutual. Sounds like a bunch of elitist sh*theads.
“Why do you need pre-screening for something like this? You are making assumptions that people from certain backgrounds will behave differently. That is discrimination.”
Not necessarily. They don’t exclude *anyone* from Group X, they exclude that person. And, yes, sometimes their expressed reasons are pretexts for racial/ethnic/religious discrimination, but sometimes they aren’t.
The majority of the co-ops in Chicago are not nearly as upscale as they are in NYC. 99% of Co-ops are in NYC. There are handful of them on the Gold Coast and some in Hyde Park. I’ve seen some co-ops allow low down payment financing, etc. The units are not that expensive and borderline dumps to be honest. However, the more upscale co-ops typically want significant down payments and there will be a significant examination of your finances.
The financing on co-ops is very limited. Most major banks want nothing to do with them outside of NYC.
I wouldn’t describe him as some super star trading….I know one person in the 8 figures in his 20’s.
Since when do society types care about being gay in NYC? Maybe black, but not if he’s one of them types.
His taxes colorful to say the least. I’ve never heard of this guy except thru the co-op thing, but he may of been before my time. But superstar hardly.
The only good part of living in Florida was that you could legally exclude people from owning children. It made it very nice for those of us not inclined toward them to pick a place to live.
If you don’t like Co-ops, there are plenty of other options. I don’t see how having a financial stake is any more discriminatory than a gated community establishing rules that say you can’t buy a lot and put up a double wide. Should the person who can’t afford a house be allowed to live with people who can afford big houses?
I don’t have any money, so I have no dog in the fight, but I can see why people who have tons of money would want to control their neighbors. I’d love for someone to evict the tenet above me, but since he owns the place, I’ll be quiet and keep saving my 20% down.
jay:
don’t bother.
@ anon (tfo)
I know, I know.
Sean… according to Forbes he is the 12th wealthiest African American in the US ($150 million). He gave $50 million to his alma mater, Harvard. I think that qualifies him as a super star trader when he is just 43 years old. At 25, he was the top trader at Kidder, Peabody (old school investment bank).
There are like 80 traders who are billionaires. Thats chump change in that industry; your not a superstar if theres a thousand people better than you at what you do.
“Thats chump change in that industry; your not a superstar ”
uhhh – I don’t know but 150 million doesn’t sound like “chump change” to me – and yes, I would consider myself a superstar if I had the brains/brawn/ability, etc. to make that much money.
…as usual, the voice of reason anon (tfo)
Not your fault Jay, I think we all needed to learn our lesson.
Anon has been here longer and was in the know. In fact, he deserves a service award for preventing us fall into the trap : )
That being said I love the fact that freedom of speech rights are truly held up in this country. After all people can rant all they want. It is the listener who forms her own opinion.
Chicago is the most racially divided large city in the US of A (not the original of course, that title belongs to NYC)
So I would say that it is a somewhat interesting and a valid topic, mainly because the co-op hasn’t caught on here in Chicago like it did in NYC.
The biggest reason is probably because most areas of Chicago have just recently become gentrified in the last 40 years which took place after the “condo” existed and since condos are much easier to sell, therefore prevailed.
The only places you see co-ops are in the gold coast, east lincoln park and Hyde park, which are all the “old money” neighborhoods or neighborhoods that have always been nice.
“There are plenty of stories of co-ops in NY telling celebrities to keep on looking elsewhere since the neighbors don’t want the paparazzi and Charlie Sheen like shenanigans hanging out in the building. They don’t care how much money they have…”
That’s right. Over the years there were rumors that certain buildings wouldn’t approve some musicians and certain actresses. That’s why many of the newer condo buildings in NYC are so popular with celebrities because they can just buy and move in and don’t have to worry about impressing the board.
Weren’t co-ops essentially formed because of the Great Depression?
These buildings were all apartment buildings (the rich simply rented). That’s why the Drake’s official name is “Drake Tower Apartments.”
Then when they went under in the Great Depression (into foreclosure), the tenants banded together to “buy” the building and continue living there. Some co-op buildings in Chicago later went condo because it was simply easier. Others were converted back into apartment buildings.
In 1917, a guide to the luxury apartments in Chicago listed out the annual rents as the following:
1550 N. State Parkway: $8400
1100 N. LSD: $5000
936 N. LSD: $4800 to $5600
The Drake Tower was the tallest apartment building in Chicago prior to WWII.
Also- a huge percentage of the “vintage” buildings up and down the lake were built in a 5 year period from 1925-1930 when the Great Depression crushed the construction market.
From Chicago’s Luxury Apartments:
In the first 6 months of 1930, permits fell by a third. By 1933, new residential construction of all kinds was virtually non-existent.
In 1925, builders created almost 1 million dwellings in America, but by 1933, they built only 90,000. (sound familiar???)
In 1925, Chicago issued 17,501 building permits. That figure would not be equaled for 30 years. By 1932, permits totaled just 467. Between 1930 and 1939, the total number of permits did not even equal 1925.
Okay- I see I was not totally accurate that they were all apartments. Some were formed as co-ops as early as 1925. From 1925 to 1932, 100 co-ops were built in Chicago housing 20,000 people at the investment cost of $80 million.
Chicago’s Luxury Apartments said that the Depression was crushing to the co-ops. The “partial” co-ops (where only some of the units were owned by tenants) almost all went under. Apartments were put up for rent at lower rents and others who owned could no longer shoulder the burden so the building went into foreclosure.
Chicago’s real estate foreclosures rose 50% from 1929 to 1930.
According to CLA and using the CPI: The annual rent in 1550 N. State Parkway of $8400 would be about $153,000 or $12,700 a month in today’s dollars.
Another property with crap pictures of the views out the windows. The last one is nice but can’t tell where it fits in.
Drake Tower appeals to “old money” types and “wanna be like old money” types (like one of my clients). The long-time reputation of the building and its location in one of the USA’s richest census tracts gives it a certain “cachet” that overrules such factors as age, etc.
Co-op “exclusivity” has been gradually going by the wayside as a result of fair-housing laws and a new, more open-minded, generation of residents.
I predict that most if not all of the remaining co-ops in Chicago will “go condo” in the next couple decades; they hold little if any appeal for young home buyers who generally think the whole concept is “bizarre” on many levels.
BTW there are some co-ops in non-upscale nabes, such as West Ridge/West Rogers Park.Also some of those cube-shaped 4-flats in places like Budlong Woods are co-ops, usually co-owned by siblings or cousins of one clan, each of whom claims a unit for his own family.
It seems like the likely result, if a co-op building converted to condo, would be some bump in the price of units, but also a significant bump in RE taxes. Is that a reasonable assumption?
Still, I think the increase in marketability & possible increase in value would encourage most Co-ops to strongly consider converting.
I was thinking there was a possible “play” in buying co-op units and pushing for conversion, but they’d probably not sell to you as an investor looking to rent out unit (or simply block the rental).
KEEPING OUT THE RIFF RAFT
anyone who WANTS RIFF RAFT PLEASE RAISE YOUR HANDS
YEAH, THATS WHAT I THOUGHT
“sounds like Mississippi?
sounds like elitist (leftwingers) New Yawk
Cant we all just get along??
NO, WE CANT
Sonies
and no places are more for Obama than the 2 you mentioned
ahhhh, nice and refreshing to hear the truth
I own a co-op in NYC. There aren’t very many condos in NYC. The NY apartment-purchase market ratio is 80% co-ops to 20% condos. Co-ops here aren’t merely associated with the super wealthy. You find co-ops at all price ranges and all classes across all 5 boroughs. They are not associated with snobs or discrimination here although I know it happens in the fancier ones on Park Avenue and the Upper West Side.
Co-ops are formed when you have a rental building where the residents all decide to buy their units and there is an underlying mortgage on the building itself, not solely on your unit. There is a sponsor who comes in and buys the majority of shares/units. Tenants who do not opt to buy into the initial offering plan cannot be legally evicted. Their apartments are subject to normal rent control laws.
For example, I live in a middle-class 30 unit co-op in Brooklyn and 9 of our units are still rent-control rate and owned by the Sponsor. The tenants pay their rent to the sponsor. Many of them have been there for aeons. Some of them pay $500/month for a 3 BR/2 BA unit in a prime area of brownstone Brooklyn.
You form a corporation and you receive a proprietary lease which allows you to live in your unit. You do not own the 4 walls and the floor like you do in a condo. You are buying shares in a corporation and the proprietary lease permits you to live in your unit. Your property taxes are included in your monthly assessments. That’s why the assessments are high. A bonus is the portion of your assessment which covers the mortgage on the building is tax-deductible.
The reason why they are so common in NYC is that there simply is no space to build new condos, and existing buildings, no matter how old or in what state of disrepair are still very expensive to buy and convert to co-ops just because it’s NY and space is in such high demand. So it’s more common for an old rental building to become a co-op than to find a new-construction condo. New construction condos tend to be in areas like Downtown Brooklyn, Williamsburg, Greenpoint, Queensboro Plaza or Long Island City where there were masses of empty buildable lots before the bubble. Some of these in better locations along the waterfront sold well, but many did not, and are sitting half-completed or have gone rental. Condos are definitely more desireable and more expensive than co-ops because you can rent them out whenever you like and anyone can buy one without going through board approval with any type of mortgage. With co-ops it’s much more difficult to rent. For example, I am technically allowed to rent my unit for 2 years within a 5 year period. However, I would have to pay a commission to the co-op board and my tenants would have to provide financials and be interviewed by the co-op board as if they were purchasing.
These are definitely drawbacks. I hate all the red tape. Sometimes I hate the limitations on my freedom. But I have to admit there are also benefits. You have to put 20% down to buy in my co-op and the board also pores over your finances to determine whether you will be able to make your monthly payments on a long-term basis. They can request that you put funds in escrow for your monthly assessments if a large portion of your downpayment is coming from a bonus or a gift from your parents as opposed to a salary. So although there are limitations on your freedom, if you are planning on staying long-term, a co-op is a more financially secure option to buy into compared to a condo. I’ve been in mine for 12 years now. There is minimal risk of en-masse defaults.
About the people, when I originally bought, my neighbors were really cool, old-skool middle class New Yorkers who tended to be teachers, cops, students, media people, paralegals etc. of all ages. All super friendly. Over the years, as my neighborhood became more desireable the demographic of my building changed. Now there are more lawyer/banker couples with children. Everyone has children and their children are mouthy ill-behaved brats, and the parents are snobby and do not say hi in passing. They are the types who toss their cigarette butts or leave their dog crap on the sidewalk and expect someone else to sweep it up. The moms are aggressive coffee-drinking cell-phone talking stroller-pushers. It’s like I’ve got news for you – you aren’t the Virgin Mary. I know how you got pregnant. And no one else thinks your kid is cute.
In Chicago I’ve come across a few co-ops in Rogers Park.
Let’s not forget the Hippy Dippy Coops of the 60’s’70’s, that were more commune in nature.
And finally, we have the Low Income housing version; the “limited equity co-op”.
http://www.weown.net/LimitedEquityCoops.htm
I know of one out west; the complex is mostly duplexed units, 2-3 BR mostly. Under $10k to buy in, after screening. Then a monthly “carrying charge” of something low, probably like under $1k for most. Whole complex was subsidized w/ some kind of HUD funds initially, many decades ago. It’s got a lot a of green space, a pool, play grounds. Very nicely managed and maintained. It works well to give working folks with low-incomes a solid place to live and raise their kids.
I’m thinking that Noble Square is Co-ops at Milwaukee and Augusta.
Oddly, there’s a structure to even the “affordable” co-op’s that seems to keep the problem tenants to a minimum. Probably a larger stick to use to keep the residents all on the same page?