Get a “New” Gold Coast 1-Bedroom for Under the 2003 Price: 1212 N. LaSalle
This 1-bedroom at 1212 N. LaSalle on the edge of the Gold Coast and Old Town just came on the market.
Even though the building was built in 1988, the listing says the unit is as “good as new.”
The kitchen has new granite counter tops and tile backsplash as well as stainless steel appliances.
The bathroom and the wood floors throughout are also new.
The unit boosts floor to ceiling windows with city views.
While there is central air there is no in-unit washer/dryer (though I believe the building does allow it to be installed.)
I’m not sure if parking comes with this unit or not- but it is definitely available to buy or rent in the building.
The unit is listed $10,000 below the 2003 purchase price.
Is this a deal?
John Vossoughi at @Properties has the listing. See more pictures here.
Unit #1702: 1 bedroom, 1 bath, 750 square feet
- Sold in May 2003 for $210,000
- Currently listed for $200,000
- Assessments of $514 a month (includes heat, a/c, gas, cable)
- Taxes of $2451
- Central Air
- No in-unit washer/dryer
- Parking extra?
- Bedroom: 12×17
- Kitchen: 9×11
- Living/Dining room: 14×17
Is this an in-town type unit? The days of a 20 something buying this and living here for a few years is over, but may appeal to the suburban crowd looking for a place to stay. One thing I do remember about this hood is the pawn shop and 24 hour cash building on the corner. Because of this, there are many homeless walking around.
Is the entry for this building on La Salle or Wells street? If I lived there I would prefer a Wells street address.
$266 a sq ft is right on target. Decent view, great light, close to old town and gold coast, L stop right there. Slightly high assessment but building might have decent reserves for mantainance. Great for in town or 20 something, $1300 a manth is quite doable by many 20 somethingers.
Good in-town value here.
I toured units before. Not my cup of tea. Close to jewel and dominicks and red line stop. Clark and division red line stop q bit shady for a single girl coming home later at night. I think of this place more as a division street mothers vs and old town margot place even though its probably equal distant. Yhis unit furnishing are a bit nicer than lots of rental grade units in building
Entrance on lasalle
I like this location, easy to brown and redlines, not a bad walk to the loop on a nice day, easy access to wells and river north fun.
Of course you have to deal with the frequent protesters in front of the planned parenthood office at the base of this building as well.
This is a cool area and a cool building. The views are awesome. That said, $200,000 for a 1 BR is not cheap but someone might pay close to that for it. I’m guessing $185,000.
Nico on May 27th, 2011 at 6:53 am
“$1300 a manth is quite doable by many 20 somethingers.”
Try $1,530 after taxes and assessments – and then electric on top of that.
You can easily rent a 1-bed of this size/finish/balcony in the area for $1,300/month or less, plus electric.
I lived in this hood for the past two years (Clark & Schiller) and this building is in PRIMO sketchball proximity to “Mr. Gyros”, “Americash 24-Hr Loans”, “Food Mart” and the beautiful “Mark Twain” transient hotel.
Not a big deal, but you’ll have to walk past that and the clientele it brings every day/night.
But great location for LaSalle/Clark/Broadway/Division bus and Red Line – and Jewel.
I think this is a pretty good deal, even at $1530 per month (which would be reduced if you could get it for 180 or so). Although you may be able to rent a place for $1300 per month nearby (which I actually doubt) the finishes aren’t likely to be as nice as this. I think updated places like this would go for closer to $1700 in Old Town.
“You can easily rent a 1-bed of this size/finish/balcony in the area for $1,300/month or less, plus electric.”
Keep in mind that a portion of that $1,530 is going towards principle. Even from day 1, $200+ of it is just paying yourself. And the interest and taxes both deductible. That’s another $200 per month. Those facts then bring this below your $1300 per month rent.
Kitchen critique: why is the exhaust fan above the sink instead of above the stove(where you need it).
And a tip: end backplash at back wall, don’t have it extend out beyond upper cabinets. ( visible in realtor’s pix)
Aside from that this place does look fresh and clean. Great light and the kitchen even has a window, which seem rare in many high rise apartments.
Corner unit 1 bed, don’t see that very often. Looks like a good deal unless those pictures are deceiving.
“why is the exhaust fan above the sink instead of above the stove(where you need it).”
How do you know the microwave doesn’t double as an exhaust. Although that extra vent is kinda weird and suspicious.
I’ve concluded that curb appeal is a quick deal breaker for me. I can’t imagine having to access my condo building via a main entrance that looks like the parking garage at a shopping mall. The unit itself seems nice, with great views.
Above the stove microwaves don’t exhaust to the outside and are not as effective as a true exhaust fan
“why is the exhaust fan above the sink instead of above the stove(where you need it).”
“How do you know the microwave doesn’t double as an exhaust. Although that extra vent is kinda weird and suspicious.”
That’s how many high rise ventilation systems work… we have a fan above our cabinets like that, which opens when the light is turned on, and vents all the way to the roof. We also have a microwave mounted above the stove, but there is no duct work for the fan to vent through. So we just have these charcoal filters that are supposed to trap odor. Not so much… we’ve learned that cooking seafood in a windowless high rise kitchen is not a good idea.
My friend has rented in this bldg for something around 1350…not sure, cuz she’s been there for like 5 yrs now. The elevators are really slow and it’s a weird maze to get to the garage…and her place isnt as nice as this one…but she’s happy with it. Her rent is still a lot cheaper than this mortgage + tax, etc…not including fees for sale, which everyone forgets about (transfer tax, realtors, and all other closing costs)…which really do add up vs. renting if you are only ognna live there 3-7 yrs.
The neighborhood is actually really good (IMO) bc the red line is right there (underground aka not freezing before work in the winter), jewel is right there – you dont really need a car at all. Also very close to old town and a ton of other things. There are a lot of homeless ppl though, but u have a doorman and multiple layers of security.
And Garlic & Chili is right there (next to an interesting “hotel”… but… it’s there) – old town people know the best unknown Thai place in chicago… G & C forever!
I did the #s just out of curiosity…
1047 160k mortgage after 20% down
514 ASM
204.25 Tax per month
250 for closing (15,000 for both closings including tax stamps and realtor fees – averaged out over 5 yrs)
2015 / month…increasing with ASM and taxes, and decreasing the fixed cost of the transaction the longer you live there (and assuming no appreciation or depreciation thru 2016)
I think parking is rented there, but i’m not sure. Seems like an ok deal if you can get them down a little bit, put down more than 40, and want to live there > 5 years (and the market stabilizes)
oh wow a lot of people replied as i was typing this…did I do my numbers wrong? I didn’t factor in any income deductions for interest or taxes…nor did I factor in principle since it is a
“I like this location, easy to brown[line]”
?? You think so? Or just a mistake?
“did I do my numbers wrong?”
There’s something wrong with this:
“1047 160k mortgage”
at 5% interest, a 30-year am is $858/month
“Above the stove microwaves don’t exhaust to the outside and are not as effective as a true exhaust fan”
Yea, they are mostly pointless if not vented outside, but they certainly can be configured that way.
Hey
This is my Listing. This unit had an offer of $1,575 a month for rent (without parking) before my client did all these upgrades (20K+ worth). I would think he could rent it out for around $1,700 now. We did get a full price offer on this yesterday, but we are not yet under contract as we are swarmed with showings the next two days. A decision will be made by the end of the weekend, so if you like it come check it out!
John Vossoughi
@properties
773-678-7082
Love the area. Like this condo, but much prefer a more neighborhood-y feel.
I would sacrifice finishes for the cheapest unit at 1400 N State Pkwy:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1400-N-State-Pkwy-60610/unit-14C/home/14113701
Depressing location. I don’t want to see pawn shops and the Mark Twain hotel every time I go out my door. If I were going to live in Old Town, it would have to be farther north. If I were to live on the Gold Coast, it would have to be farther east. If I were to live in River North, it would have to be farther south.
I agree with Dan #2. This building isn’t bad, they just missed on location by about 2 blocks. I thought the 200k+ 1BR cookie cutter condo had been affirmatively killed by a majority on Crib Chatter – just want to make sure that is still the consensus.
The parking is not rented, though you can probably find someone leasing out their spot. Deeded parking here adds 30k to the price.
I have mixed feeling about this. Definitely cookie cutter, but hey for a 700SF what else can you do? That being said the floor to ceiling windows and being a corner unit for a 1BR rocks. The kitchen is pretty nice too and the layout is functional.
I know I sound like a broken record, but if the assessments were at say 300-350$, it would make more sense to me. After all there is no pool, no parking, no in-unit W/D and it has a pretty sad looking gym.
Decent deal. Good for 20 something recent grad. No w/d is a deal killer though.
“if the assessments were at say 300-350$”
$100+ is the heat+a/c+gas; $50 is the cable and $100+ is the doorman. They don’t really seems that bad, if you *want* a doorman; if not, it is a waste.
I know of buildings that have a doorman (desk attendant really), 24 hour maintenance staff, pool, gym, party room. Furthermore, heated garage, heat and cable (or internet) are included and the 2BRs assessments are at this level so for a 1BR given the amenities I find this one 100$ if not more overpriced. It is not much but it matters in the rent vs own decision to some extent.
to those who said Cool area? are you serious?
there is a planned parenthood and tattoo parlor in the retail space and it is next to the disgusting division red line and getting a bit too close to the cabrini leftovers for my taste.
p.s. – garlic and chili blows.
A friend of mine lived in this building a few years ago. He said there were some structural issues with it like sagging decks. I’m not sure how true it is, but could be a major issue down the road for the association.
I mean there’s a lot to do in Old Town and it’s not far from the beach or Michigan Ave. either. Plus, the unit has a great feel to it with great views. Obviously, some people will be turned off by the establishments on the block but it’s not like its in Englewood.
“I mean there’s a lot to do in Old Town and it’s not far from the beach”
Ahh you know it’s summer here on cribchatter when people start extrapolating the utility of an amenity in the city maybe 4 months of the year to the entire twelve months! The beach would’ve never been mentioned in other cities.
err other seasons.
No washer/dryer in unit. No garaged parking spot. Combined assessments & taxes of $700 before the bank note…pass.
“structural issues with it like sagging decks”
Didn’t they do some balcony work sometime in the past 10 years? Am I mixing up buildings?
The listing says “Sale Price Includes Parking,” “Parking Ownership: Owned Parking,” “Garage Parking,” etc. What is making everyone assume that this does not include parking?
“Didn’t they do some balcony work sometime in the past 10 years? Am I mixing up buildings?”
I meant the floor decks, not balconies. I should have clarified. I haven’t been in the place in 10 years, but I think some of the floors were not level.
So relatively close proximity to biking/running/walking along the lake is not a selling point? If you like living in Bucktown that’s great but don’t act like the lake isn’t a draw.
given the above chatter,
I’ll guess this trades around . . . $177k.
tho my own bid would be much lower.
“Ahh you know it’s summer here on cribchatter when people start extrapolating the utility of an amenity in the city maybe 4 months of the year to the entire twelve months! The beach would’ve never been mentioned in other cities.”
Some people run along the lakefront 12 months of the year. I like going down there late fall early spring before it is mobbed by tourists.
It is a very nice looking place, I’ll say that for it.
“If you like living in Bucktown that’s great but don’t act like the lake isn’t a draw.”
I dislike Bucktown. But I’d rather live a little bit more inland to get away from the lake gusts.*
*Not a native Chicagoan.
Err lake gusts in winter they aren’t so bad these days.
If it includes parking as well, I’d say it is a pretty good deal, assessment issue standing.
“The listing says “Sale Price Includes Parking,” “Parking Ownership: Owned Parking,” “Garage Parking,” etc. What is making everyone assume that this does not include parking?”
To each his own Bob, I love the lake but can see your point why people don’t want to be by it. You can’t really enjoy it for 8 months out of the year. A couple weekends ago I almost got frost bite walking down LSD when I didn’t come prepared. I always just assumed lake proximity is a net positive.
I am interested in a 2b/ba in this building…. how sketchy is this neighborhood? i know the planned parenthood is on the corner..
I really liked this building when I was looking two years ago. In fact, I ended up in a bidding war for a unit with this same floor plan a few floors up. IIRC, my bid was $265k and I didn’t get it. Boy have times changed!
ricky b, the neighborhood is okay if you go a few blocks toward the lake. once up go up lasalle and a block or two to the left you are in the hood. there are always gross characters hanging out across the street at the gyro place and currency exchange, nearby at the division redline and jewel, and at the tat parlor/pizza place and around planned parenthood. i would not reccommend buying in this building, for rental purposes, it’s fine if you need proximity to downtown. to be honest better deals are out there.
But aren’t tat parlors and Planned Parenthood clinics “pluses” for the “swinging singles” who would be interested in buying here?
After all, there are singles bars, Starbucks and Second City nearby – which I do believe are attractive to the frequently tatted “Chad and Trixie” types.
“This is my Listing. This unit had an offer of $1,575 a month for rent (without parking) before my client did all these upgrades (20K+ worth). I would think he could rent it out for around $1,700 now. We did get a full price offer on this yesterday, but we are not yet under contract as we are swarmed with showings the next two days. A decision will be made by the end of the weekend, so if you like it come check it out!”
Thanks for the info John.
So everyone guessing that this selling for like $185k or whatnot are completely wrong.
As I’ve said many times, people want “new, new, new”. They will pay a premium for a completely move-inable place (and will pay a premium for granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.)
There are cheaper units in this building that you could probably get for $150k and then spend $20k to redo- and it would still be cheaper than this unit but people don’t have the vision, time or money to do it. So those other units sit- and this sells for full price.
Also- apparently no one understands the rental market either (and that renters also want “new, new, new.”)
But I wonder what these units will rent for once the new rental building on Wells opens in about 6 months (it is already under construction.) That will have the better Wells street entrance (hence- more “old town” feel) and will probably have luxury finishes and in-unit laundry.
While they will probably rent for a premium- you also won’t have to put down one month or more for deposit (usually it’s like $300 to $500 move-in fee for many of those buildings.)
And people will want the “new” building (with all of its amenities.)
Thanks for chiming in after the fact Sabrina!
This unit totally undercut the price on most every other non-short sale unit in the building since it includes parking. #1202 is at $242 with parking (and is remodeled), #2510 is at $235 inlc. parking and is not remodeled, #1210 is at $190 w/o parking and is not remodeled (add $40 k to the price to make it comparable), #2105 is at $230 with no parking (has an extra 30 sq. ft.). #2409 is under contract listed at $212 with no parking, I wonder what that buyer is thinking.
If I was the buyer that submitted the full-price offer I’d be withdrawing it on Monday. And then re-submitting at a lower price, because the only way they’re going to accept it is if nobody else offered as much.
The building recently redid all of the facade without a special…FYI
“After all, there are singles bars, Starbucks and Second City nearby – which I do believe are attractive to the frequently tatted “Chad and Trixie” types.”
i think you’ve got your stereotypes wrong. chad and trixies don’t dig tats and planned parenthood. starbucks and whole foods is more like it.
“The beach would’ve never been mentioned in other cities”
And were it not for the lakefront, Chicago would rarely be mentioned at all. (1) The lake is why Chicago is (i) the third largest city in the country, (ii) a corporate/legal/financial/medical, academically, architecturally and culturally world class city, and (iii) a highly desirable place to live (more so, to many who have a choice, than NYC); (2) lakefront areas were, are and shall continute to be the most expensive areas in the entire Chicagoland region; (3) the unmitigated lakefront “gusts” notwithstanding, it is very often (i) cooler by the lake in the summer and (ii) warmer by the lake in the winter; and (4) anyone who says that they choose to live away from the lakefront because of (i) the weather, (ii) the traffic/crowds and/or (iii) the d-bags/chads/trixies…is delusional.
Say that you prefer to live away from the lakefront because of (i) cost, (ii) the need or desire for more or better space, (iii) schools (particually high school, and especially if multiple kids), (iv) a job that is outside of the city, or (v) you simply live in this region in order to work in Chicago, but have no interest in city living at all. Fine. Those are perfectly valid reasons to prefer to live well away from the lakefront. But that’s about it.
church anonny. BTW, I just learnt this expression on CC and was dying to use it ; )
“(2) lakefront areas were, are and shall continute to be the most expensive areas in the entire Chicagoland region;”
Well, the most expensive areas (GC and ELP) are also lakefront areas. But there are plenty of lakefront areas, even those close to the city center, that are quite inexpensive.
South Loop is much cheaper than River North. Uptown is much cheaper than Lincoln Square. Edgewater is much cheaper than Sauganash. And of course most of the south side along the lake is much cheaper than 90% of northside hoods.
“(1) The lake is why Chicago is (i) the third largest city in the country, (ii) a corporate/legal/financial/medical, academically, architecturally and culturally world class city, and (iii) a highly desirable place to live (more so, to many who have a choice, than NYC)”
This is either banal (the lake has played some role in causing these outcomes) or a historical/sociological absurdity (the lake is THE cause of all these things).
“The days of a 20 something buying this and living here for a few years is over”
I actually think this is a great place for a young professional. Why not buy this place and live in it for a few years while it’s brand new and then hold onto it as an investment property? If everything truly is brand new here, I think this is priced well and could be a good long term hold for someone – especially given that the down payment you’d need for this type of property isn’t much ( assuming the building is FHA).
Anonny, why don’t you just marry the lake already. You have this idea that somehow Lake Michigan is a vital part of what makes Chicago so aWe$0me. Reality is quite different.
Fact: The lake has nothing to do with making Chicago the financial destination you claim. It’s all to do with the railroads. You can’t get materials west of the Mississippi on water. If the railroads had decided to bypass Chicago in favor of St Louis for a major hub, Chicago would be another Milwaukee. Not insignificant, but not signifcant either. Just another large city on the lakefront.
Check out City of the Century for more data.
I’ve mentioned this before. I lived one block away from the lakefront for eight years. In Rogers Park. Cheaply. I have not so fond memories of being blown off of my feet by lake gusts in January. And don’t get me started about the summertime crowds. Do not miss one minute of living there.
Oh. I challenge you to walk along Inner LSD from Oak to Ontario the next time we have a stinking hot day. I will guarantee you that it is not appreciably cooler than inland.
“I actually think this is a great place for a young professional. Why not buy this place and live in it for a few years while it’s brand new and then hold onto it as an investment property? If everything truly is brand new here, I think this is priced well and could be a good long term hold for someone – especially given that the down payment you’d need for this type of property isn’t much ( assuming the building is FHA).”
I actually think you have no idea how to landlord as do most people. Have you ever been a landlord, Rngirl? And if not what makes you think it will be so easy?
Why would someone who couldn’t even come up with a normal downpayment (10-20%), utilizing FHA loans, do when the hot water heater broke or there were issues?
The notion of being a real estate baron/accidental landlord is glamorous is soooo 2007.
The other problem with holding on to it as an investment property is the fact that many banks increasingly aren’t willing to consider the rental income unless it’s already been renting for a year or more and you can prove the income outside of simply having a rental agreement. So if your salary doesn’t support this on top of any new mortgage you aren’t getting that bigger place and keeping this as an investment (unless you paid off the mortgage of course, and even then they’d consider taxes and assessments).
The 20 something professional that has the DP and income to buy this is most likely on the wrong side of 25 to be assuming that they won’t get married and possibly want to start a family within the next 5 years, neither of which you want to do in a 750 sq ft 1/1.
“I actually think you have no idea how to landlord as do most people. Have you ever been a landlord, Rngirl? And if not what makes you think it will be so easy?
Why would someone who couldn’t even come up with a normal downpayment (10-20%), utilizing FHA loans, do when the hot water heater broke or there were issues?”
Hate to burst your bubble, Bob, but I am a landlord… And being a landlord for a unit in a high rise property is actually very low maintenance considering there is a staff in most buildings that take care of all issues. I recognize that there are costs and risks to being a landlord- but your everyday maintenance issues aren’t cumbersome or very expensive in a high rise. This long term hold is not for everyone… You’ll notice that i was specific about what type of buyer (I.e., a young professional). When I bought my first home in 2004, my salary was a fraction of what I make now. A young professional has the potential to have an income trajectory that can support owning an investment property.
And I know that being a landlord is glamorous by any means… Just a nice option should a young buyer happen to get married in the next few years and doesn’t need to sell to get out whatever small amount of capital s/he put down.
“A young professional has the potential to have an income trajectory that can support owning an investment property.”
Hint: if you need increased income to “support” an “investment property”, it’s not a very good *investment*.
“so if your salary doesn’t support this on top of any new mortgage you aren’t getting that bigger place and keeping this as an investment”
Fair point. But in your scenario, remember that if you marry someone with a job, their salary will be included on your mortgage app. Also remember that a 20-something might actually marry someone with a bigger place and just move in (I.e. No additional mortgage necessary). I didn’t say this would work for everyone and you and Bob bring up valid points… However, you guys don’t even consider that there plenty of scenarios in which this would work just fine.
“Hint: if you need increased income to “support” an “investment property”, it’s not a very good *investment*.”
Bob’s arguing for the sake of arguing. I guess that’s what I get for posting at 5 am
BTW, how about this for an investment property:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/1610-W-Fullerton-Ave-60614/unit-201/home/39982336
PS: I agree with Rngirl that renting in a high-rise with onsite maintenance staff is pretty easy. I even rented out a town home condo some years back and even that was easy. I rented it to a guy who whom military was paying him to do a graduate degree and told him I know nothing of being a landlord. We decided I would given him $50 break in his rent and he would instead not call and bug me and handle small things. In fact, when he left my place was improved quite a bit! Of course it might have been that I was lucky and it was in a small student town where people are generally nice.
This is off-topic, but the “20% down” debate is really heating up.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/27/us-financial-regulation-qrm-idUSTRE74Q5IZ20110527
A realtor in Georgia was on the radio this morning saying one couple who is a first time homebuyer (and his client) would need “10 to 15 years to save up the 20% downpayment.”
This is a lot longer than my estimate of 5 to 7 years (for someone to save up the downpayment.)
Imagine having to save up money to buy a property? How UnAmerican! The NAR is fighting this with all they have.
Rngirl: But why would you even want to bother? Just rent a brand new unit in the new midrise they are building next door for about the same price (with no assessment payments, no worries about the downpayment, no special assessments, no taxes etc.)
Then in 3 years, when you get married, you move into your home for the next 10 to 20 years.
Housing has never been a good “investment”. That young person/couple would be much better off renting and putting money into their 401ks and other stock investments. They’ll be richer 10 years down the road and they won’t have to deal with any tenants.
Did anyone do the rent to own calculator for this unit? Even if it rents out at like $1550 and you get 2% appreciation a year for owning it (a generous appreciation rate since Chicago is still declining and even in a “normal” market it is only 1% to 3%)- it will still take you like 10 years before owning it is a better deal than renting it (I used 10% down.)
The rent v. own calculator is a real eye opener (as it takes into account the assessment and the cost of the money- being used to invest elsewhere etc.)
It makes no sense to buy this unit versus renting if you’re only going to stay there a few years.
10-15 years? What are they planning to buy? I am of the opinion that ones total mortgage should not exceed twice the annual income of the household and that is the maximum, I’d say 1.5 times is even more desirable.
In the NAR’s “call to action” against the 20% down, they are saying it takes a middle class family an average of 14 years to save the 20% down.
Even the DINKs in Chicago- I would estimate it would take them 5 to 7 years to save the 100k you’d need to put down on a $400k place (and that is with aggressive saving.) By that point, they are buying the house in the suburbs- and bypassing the condo altogether.
“(2) lakefront areas were, are and shall continute to be the most expensive areas in the entire Chicagoland region;”
This is wrong on many levels. As someone already pointed out- how is Rogers Park faring?
How about the South Shore? You can get a condo in a building right on the lake (with a private beach) for like $60k. And still no one is buying it.
Also- if the lakefront property was the “most expensive in the Chicagoland region”- why is someone paying $5 million for a house in Hinsdale? Why are they paying $2 million to live in Ukranian Village? But they are. Not to mention the $5 million horse farms in Barrington or St. Charles and the $2 million new McMansions in Naperville.
But, again, you can’t give away the homes in Waukegan- even those just a few blocks away from the lake front.
Sabrina, I tried a rent vs own calculator too with these parameters:
Monthly Rent $1550
Monthly Rental Insurance $10
Expected Annual Inflation Rate 1%
Purchase Price of Home $200K
Down Payment Amount $30K (15%)
Length of Mortgage Term 15 yrs
Monthly Association Dues $514
Annual Property Tax $2,451
Interest Rate on Savings 3%
Home Appreciation Rate 1%
Number of Years Expected at Property 7yrs
and I get that buy is a better option. I believe the rent for this property with parking will be higher and if one wants to keep it as investment property, the 7 years expected number of years is not even accurate. I believe this might be a pretty ok investment, nothing fabulous of course. But, let’s not forget that people have lost quite a bit in stock market too. I am all for not putting all one’s eggs in a single basket. At the end of the day owning some property is a good diversification IMHO.
“This is wrong on many levels. As someone already pointed out- how is Rogers Park faring?
How about the South Shore? You can get a condo in a building right on the lake (with a private beach) for like $60k. And still no one is buying it.”
Rogers Park? South Shore? Good grief.
Two things. First, the existence of low cost areas such as RP or SS does not change the fact that the lakefront was, is and shall ALSO continue to be the location of the most expensive areas. Neither the worst blocks in Oakland nor the worst projects in Manhattan do anything to change the fact that SF and NY, respectively, are ALSO home to the most expensive locations in the country. Second, RP? SS? The first thing that pops into peoples’ heads when looking for a response to my assertion as to the cost and/or value of lakefront areas is “oh, what about RP?” Seriously?
“But why would you even want to bother?”
Because I happen to believe this is a good deal. I am certainly a bear on real estate, but some of you on here are ridiculous. I get the sense that you are trying to convince yourselves that renting is the only answer for EVERYONE. Well…it’s not (and in this case the rent v buy calc works in the favor of buy). Real estate and investing in general are not “one size fits all.” And that’s what makes the world go ’round. Sabrina – I LOVE your blog and appreciate your insights, so nothing personal of course, but nothing is quite as black and white as you make it out to be.
And on another note… I HATE that the weather is so bad that I am inside on a holiday weekend commenting on real estate blogs.
“A realtor in Georgia was on the radio this morning saying one couple who is a first time homebuyer (and his client) would need “10 to 15 years to save up the 20% downpayment.””
Just imagine what happens when that hot water heater knocks out..or they need tuckpointing or *gasp* a new roof. Mortgage goes delinquent.
yes the weather is horrible. I am going to go out any ways though. I mean who knows how long I will live so I want to make sure I did not spend my last days all indoors : )
“In the NAR’s “call to action” against the 20% down, they are saying it takes a middle class family an average of 14 years to save the 20% down.”
Cut prices in half and we’d be down to 7
Of course their number is stupid.
“I am of the opinion that ones total mortgage should not exceed twice the annual income of the household and that is the maximum, I’d say 1.5 times is even more desirable.”
Wow, you just became more conservative than me.
“and in this case the rent v buy calc works in the favor of buy”
RNGirl.. should be careful with that. Makes a single point determination, you need to look at a bigger surface. Not picking one side or the other, just pointing something out.
Oh, I never would have moved to Chicago had it not had the lake.
The economy worked fine for decades with more stringent downpayment requirements. It also kept real estate speculation relatively in check, at least compared to this current bubble.
Nowadays they don’t want a 20% downpayment because they know it would cause prices to collapse.
The relaxation of lending standards was probably the biggest intergenerational theft that had occured since the first recipients of social security.
Baby boomers and those who had purchased under more stringent lending guidelines in prior eras benefited enormously from opening the loan floodgates for any bozo to bid on a piece of real estate with a 580 FICO score. All that phantom appreciation has to go back in the box, and probably moreso.
No more baby boomers fueling our economy who were income poor but house rich treating their property as an ATM over the past two decades. The whole bubble was a giant joke which allowed people to live beyond their means for far too long.
What is the website address for the mid-rise next door?
“Two things. First, the existence of low cost areas such as RP or SS does not change the fact that the lakefront was, is and shall ALSO continue to be the location of the most expensive areas.”
Anonny- you are wrong. Look up and down the lake (yes- in many DIFFERENT states)- and there are plenty of lower income homes all along the lake front. Go south from the GZ and there are tremendous deals all the way to the dunes. Sure- some million dollar homes are thrown in there too (never said there weren’t those.) But you’re wrong that the lakefront always was and will continue to be the “most expensive areas.”
Your analysis that the rich outrank the middle class/poor along the lakefront is flawed. Like I said- ask someone why they’re paying $2 to $3 million for that Bucktown house. It ain’t because of the lake.
Do we have to describe again what a dump LP was in the 1970s? Come on. Everyone fled inland for decades. The rich didn’t want to live in the city.
By the way- the city neighborhoods that are NOT rich along the lakefront well outnumbers those that are:
Rich:
Lakeview
Lincoln Park
Near North Side
Loop
Near South Side
Not so rich:
Rogers Park
Edgewater
Uptown
Douglas
Oakland
Kenwood
Hyde Park
Woodlawn
South Shore
South Chicago
East Side
Hegewisch
Anonny- maybe you should leave your 3 block radius some time. Rent a zip car and actually take a day to drive around this wonderful city. You might be surprised at what you find.
“and I get that buy is a better option. I believe the rent for this property with parking will be higher and if one wants to keep it as investment property, the 7 years expected number of years is not even accurate. I believe this might be a pretty ok investment, nothing fabulous of course.”
Why in heavens name would this be a “pretty ok investment” when you are getting 1% appreciation????
I don’t understand people.
Yes- if you get a 15 year mortgage (what first time homebuyer qualifies for that??)
Also- not many are going to be putting down 15%. But okay.
And then they have to live there for at least 7 years to even break even.
So if you’re 25, you’ve managed to save $30,000 (by some miracle) and you’re buying this place- you’d better live there until at least age 32 for you to even “break even” and then to have buying be better than renting.
I’m all for buying- if you’re going to live there at the minimum of 10 years. So all the buyers out there better think real hard about what type of property they’re buying. Will it work for all the life changes that could happen in that period?
1. Will I get a new job in another city that will further my career and I’ll have to move?
2. Will I be getting married and 750 square feet isn’t going to work anymore?
3. Will I be having a child and 750 square feet isn’t going to work anymore?
4. Gosh- you know what- I really DON’T like this neighborhood and anonny convinced me I need to be closer to the lake. What happens if I want to sell now?
I could go on and on.
The small 1-bedroom (and in many cases, the 2-bedroom) condos are dead for the next decade. Some units right downtown continue to sell as in-towns. But if you go out into the neighborhoods- all you see is tears and lots and lots of financial pain.
chichow:
I don’t think they have a website yet. You can see the progress on construction from Curbed Chicago. Sounds like it will have a website soon though.
http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2011/04/01/demolition-underway-at-old-town-site-construction-imminent.php
Oh, its the old car dealership? – the one that changed brand a couple of times? I remember it being Toyota for a while.
I have read some of the comments and cant make an argument on the following –
1. Location – I think this is one of the best locations in the city. You can walk to Rush St, Mag Mile, lakefront and Old Town. Yes there is a planned parenthood at the corner and the SRO hotel, but no one bothers you. Look around you, this is Chicago and unless you live in Kenilworth, you are bound to run into bums.
2. I give credit to this realtor who got the owner to list it at this price. This will be one of the easiest sales he has this year. This unit in tier 02 is a great location. Corner unit with floor to ceiling windows facing North and East. Can’t get better than this for the price. You can rent parking for about $150, which is cheap.
3. Chill with the exhaust fan and its placement. The probable owner of this unit, a single individual, will be spending more time at Cafe Iberico than cooking in their kitchen. The exhaust in the microhood will be sufficient enough.
4. I sold a unit in 2008 in the 1250 LaSalle building for over $260K with parking. Yes my unit had better finishes, but I will tell you that I was also getting $1950 a month in rent.
Bottom line, someone is going to have a great unit for a few years.
“I’m all for buying- if you’re going to live there at the minimum of 10 years.”
So… Why are you just picking on the city condos? Even if you “think” you’ll be in that suburban home for 10+ years, there’s a chance you could get a new job in a different town. Or get divorced. Or lose your job. Nothing is ever certain in life, so I guess we should all be vagabonds.
I think she is picking on the fact that most people are not going to try and raise a family in a one or two bdrm condo in the city – issues with space, issues with kids needing grass, issues with CPS
But in general as one’s money goes further in the suburbs, you can get a larger place that can suit you for a longer period of time.
Of course a job loss/change is going to equally affect a suburban SFH and city condo
I put 1% appreciation to make the comparison favorable towards renting vs buying to show my point. Of course if the appreciation is over 1%, it is a much better investment. So I am not sure how this is a flaw of my argument. It only strengthens it.
Also I honestly think someone who cannot save 30K should not buy a 200K property. I mean saving just over 1K a month will get you there in 2 years. Sure if one works at some minimum wage job they are better off being renters as it is the case almost every where in the world.
Check out this house on the Lakefront in Racine, WI for $225k:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1302-S-Main-St-Racine-WI-53403/2131063042_zpid/#%7Bscid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address%7D
And here is another house just down the block, also for $225k:
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1202-Main-St-Racine-WI-53403/70364780_zpid/#%7Bscid=hdp-site-map-bubble-address%7D
chichow on May 29th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
Oh, its the old car dealership? – the one that changed brand a couple of times? I remember it being Toyota for a while.
It was Tower Olds forever (or 20 years, whatever) and Grossinger Caddy/Toyota for about ten. I was surprised it had lastest as a car dealer for as long as it had, after the Oscar Meyer plant was torn down.
“I think she is picking on the fact that most people are not going to try and raise a family in a one or two bdrm condo in the city – issues with space, issues with kids needing grass, issues with CPS”
Talk with some New Yorkers. Go spend a little time in NYC, and chat with the folks who want to remain in the city – even with, and for some, especially with, kids. For such folks, the zone with all the tall buildings (here, the Loop) isn’t just a place to earn a high income during the day and occassionally return from the burbs with the kids for shopping or various activities. Yes, hang out in the nicest areas of Manhattan, and talk with such folks about housing…
…Then return to the nicest areas of Chicago. That large 2/2 in a prime neighborhood – with parking, ac, and in-unit w/d, not to mention good to great elementary schools – is going to seem pretty fantastic, and certainly suitable for a professional couple to start a family.
Now, if one’s response to such an exercise is along the lines of “well, this ain’t NYC” or “well, that’s why I don’t live in NYC,” then, why rare exceptions, that person was never long for life in a big city anyways, and for them it really is just a place to chase down a high income and occassionally partake in the things a big city has to offer.
But its not NYC. so its not an apples to apples comparison.
just look at the demographics even from wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Demographics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City#Demographics
but if you truly think all life in the big city (ies) is going to be the same regardless of whether it is NYC Chicago Los Angeles Sao Paolo London, Mumbai then we just agree to disagree
Anonny.. I personally don’t think you can compare the 2 cities.
Average upscale renter in NYC is happy to have a laundromat within 4 blocks, and enough space under the loft bed to store their clothes.
Average upscale renter in Chicago wants granite and stainless steel. Space to Chicagoan seems to have a different meaning. Texas 5 times worse (or better).
“I put 1% appreciation to make the comparison favorable towards renting vs buying to show my point. Of course if the appreciation is over 1%, it is a much better investment. So I am not sure how this is a flaw of my argument. It only strengthens it.”
So you ran a 2% annual spread b/w home price appreciation and savings. How has that spread been the last 5 years throughout America?
I’m not bagging on NYC and saying Chicago is better.
NYC has pretty much more of anything than Chicago. More shows / concerts / dances I’d want to go see. Its more prestigious and more dollars to be at Big Law in NYC. The money money route for airlines is not Chicago London, its NYC London.
The flip side is there are higher costs to NYC which includes more compromises in housing..
“The flip side is there are higher costs to NYC which includes more compromises in housing..”
The other flip side is Chicago is full of midwest people whereas NYC is full of the (almost) worst of the BoWash corridor. This fact gets lost on a lot of east coasters.
Err BosWash.
NYC is by far the coolest city in the country, but it’s just not livable. Sun is always behind some building and the people are so f’n aggressive and unpleasant. Being around that 24/7 begins to do damage to you.
“Being around that 24/7 begins to do damage to you.”
Chicow is a big swingin’ D and he’s not concerned. He thinks he’s the biggest alpha of the pack.
Thats whats funny about NYC: 22yr olds love it because at 22 the world is your oyster and everyone is going to be Gordon Gekko. Who cares if one bedroom crapshacks are half a mill if you think you’re going to be the next BSD on the street.
“He thinks he’s the biggest alpha of the pack.”
Bob, Only cause he didn’t see my ass in the Carioca sunga… 🙂
Funny video, but Ze ONLY wears his surf shorts! Truly hilarious though seeing the old guys walking all summer long through the city in nothin but flip flops and a speedo. I think a guy in Times Square makes about 300k doin that.
RiverNorthGirl told them they shouldn’t worry about RE valuations or buying because their incomes will likely surge in the future. She’s also an accidental landlord.
Don’t share this article with River North Girl, we don’t want to dash her hopes of being the next BSD:
Recession dashes false hopes for real estate riches
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/real-estate/recession_dashes_false_hopes_for_real_estate_riches-119727209.html
Bob – I would NEVER advocate taking on more than you can afford or assuming one’s income will increase. I also never said that owning real estate was going to make me rich. I am just trying to point out that every situation is different – without giving too much information on a public forum, I bought a 1300 sf 2/2 when I was single and in my 20s. I married someone who also owned a condo. We managed to sell
now that’s by far the worst city on the corridor unless you include baltimore.
“I am just trying to point out that every situation is different – without giving too much information on a public forum,”
My apologies I did not mean to get personal, however, your situation is starkly different, and much more realistic, from what you described above on this thread. Buying a condo under the presumption that your future income will increase is foolish, IMO.
“now that’s by far the worst city on the corridor unless you include baltimore.”
There are lotsof crap cities in the corridor. B’more is probably the worst but many of the smaller ones come close. Think Newark/Elizabeth.
I remember a long time ago I had just turned 18 and was visiting NYC and staying in Elizabeth to save $. No box springs in the motel. The cab driver would ask us why puzzled we were staying in Elizabeth and that it wasn’t safe.
I remember walking to a payphone and seeing a pile of trash with hypodermic needles in it a good 5ft high next to an adopt a highway Kiwanis Club of Elizabeth NJ sign. I guess that chapter wasn’t that active back then.
“I bought a 1300 sf 2/2 when I was single and in my 20s. I married someone who also owned a condo. We managed to sell.”
What year was this? How long did you own it?
I know someone who bought a 1/1 in East Lakeview in 2001. She lived in it a few years, then got married and moved out. She then rented it for a few years. Put in stainless steel appliances etc. Her and her husband wanted to sell their second place and “move up” but then also needed to sell the condo to do so.
Bought it for $199k in 2001. Sold it- after doing some upgrades on the appliances, as I said- for $205k.
Sure- her and her husband were “making more” 10 years later. But it turned out the condo wasn’t all that great of an “investment” after all.
It all depends on when you bought it. What neighborhood it’s in, it’s amenities etc.
Plenty of people who bought the first condo in 2005 are WAY underwater and will be waiting for a decade or more before they can sell even to break even.
Everyone has to judge for themselves if that’s going to work under their life plan.
Anonny: You cannot compare Chicago to NYC.
I’ve said many, many times that NYC is an “urban” city (like some European cities are like London, Amsterdam, Paris etc.)
People will raise their kids in 900 square foot 2-bedroom condos because that is what is expected (and what they will sacrifice to stay in the city.)
As we’ve seen- in Chicago- you can get a 3-bedroom townhouse for $450k in Lakeview and Lincoln Park- so there isn’t “sacrific” in that way.
Chicagoans, in general, tend to desire having a lawn and better schools. So they will- sorry to tell you- leave the 1200 square foot 2/2 (even though you COULD raise your children there, of course) because they want the basement, the 4 bedrooms, the den, the 2 car garage etc.
It’s just a midwest thing. Nothing wrong with it. Many of the Generation X’ers who lived in the city were most likely raised in the suburbs (with the exception of Groove)- because the city stunk for the 1970s and 1980s and even most of the 1990s (the prime school years for Generation X’ers.) They did NOT grow up “urban” children.
Maybe that will change with the next generation- and Chicago will become more like NYC. We’ll see.
Also- am I the only one who actually felt sorry for NY’ers after reading the article in this weekend’s NYT about how 2-bedroom units are “hot” again in New York? (especially those priced $750k to $1 million.)
Once again- there were seemingly “normal” people quoted in the article (a “financial planner” was one) who are buying these 2-bedrooms for a $1 million (most likely without in-unit w/d and probably very, very small.)
Chicago is such a great bargain. We can focus on putting our money in other places- other than just housing. When I think of all the 3-bedroom and even some 4-bedroom units in Chicago in the pre-war buildings along the lakefront for $350k or whatnot- it just reminds me how lucky I am to live here.
NYC is definitely an exceptional city much less American than others, but there are for sure quite a few families raising kids (perhaps younger kids) in Chicago too. It seems you guys claim no one ever raises kids in apartments. I don’t know about older kids, but I can tell you I have seen many families with young kids (below 9-10) in my building. That being said I have to say I have not seen that many teenagers so it seems after primary school folks move to suburbs or teens vanish to thin air like Remedios the Beauty…lol
“Also I honestly think someone who cannot save 30K should not buy a 200K property. I mean saving just over 1K a month will get you there in 2 years.”
miumiu- no offense- but how much do you think your average 25 year old college grad is making?
$35-45k?
That’s what I’m assuming.
$50k by age 25 would be generous.
This condo is 4 TIMES their income.
And somehow they’re supposed to save $1000 a month on $40k? What if they have school loans of $400 or $500 a month? What if they have a car payment of $300 a month?
I would be shocked if they could even save $500 a month on a $40k salary (you’d have to be disciplined.)
Miumiu- you’re unrealistic. But this is why we had the housing boom. Very few people can save anything. With no money down- a condo was a no brainer. With 3.5% FHA- it’s still somewhat doable (especially if the parents give you the downpayment.) With 10% or 20%? Forget it. It will eliminate 80% of the first time buyers.
But maybe they SHOULD be eliminated! That’s all I’m saying. Nothing wrong with renting in your 20s and then when you’re making more income, and yes, have saved something for a downpayment, and you’re more stable about where you’ll be for your job- THEN you can buy. Life doesn’t end because you rent next door in that new Cadillac building that is going up on Wells. It will likely have even nicer amenities than this building- like I said (including in-unit w/d).
“NYC is definitely an exceptional city much less American than others, but there are for sure quite a few families raising kids (perhaps younger kids) in Chicago too. It seems you guys claim no one ever raises kids in apartments.”
I never said that there weren’t. There clearly are schools with crowding issues (Blaine, Bell etc.) There are plenty of kids in Chicago.
But how many are kids living in the 2/2s in the GZ? If people had no trouble with that- why do 80% to 90% of the 2/2s featured here on Crib Chatter in those neighborhoods have a crib in the second bedroom? And believe me- I do NOT seek out those units.
When I see a pattern (which is quite obvious)- it sets off a red flag. Those people living in the 2/2s in Blaine should have NO problem raising their kids there, right? But apparently- they do.
I don’t disagree with you Sabrina, all I was saying is someone with 40K income with bunch of loans should not be an owner. They are not in other parts of the world. The lax lending was making it possible here and once that door is closed things will change. I am just not sure what the change will be. For many years during the boom it was almost cheaper to own than rent. Then folks would move after 5 years and even made a profit. That will most probably is going to change but while many folks on CC think the change will bring prices down to make housing affordable, there is an alternative that can happen, the prices will come down for sure and won’t appreciate the same way they did during the boom, but higher lending standards might also mean more folks are forced to rent longer term and can only own in their say 40s. That as you know is the case in many places in the world. For that to be sustainable means there are landlords who are not bleeding every month and in fact make money out of renting out their property. All I am saying the market has to reach some sort of equilibrium and I don’t see it as the one where homes are dirt cheap, everyone owns their home fresh out of college. To me that is unrealistic.
As for move to the suburbs, again price of gas will be a factor in it. If the gas prices go up, I am not sure people with their combined 100K incomes will be too happy driving back and forth to the city from suburbs everyday so the value of the houses in further suburbs can hurt as well while the ones that have good public transport might do better.
I still reiterate that some folks will still stay in the city at least until their kids are young and some older folks come to live in the city once their kids move away. I cannot see the GZ being abandoned and Schaumburg flourishing. An important part of what made suburban life popular was the while flight, the new generation is much more open minded and if the schools in the city improve some, fewer of these folks would move to the suburbs. I actually know of few families that live in the suburbs with kids and they told me they would love to move back to the city to live in a smaller house if they could sell their homes. Some just get tired of suburbs.
SO many misconceptions about NYC I don’t know where to begin.
“The other flip side is Chicago is full of midwest people whereas NYC is full of the (almost) worst of the BoWash corridor. This fact gets lost on a lot of east coasters.”
WHAT? LOL seriously, keep the conversation on the Chicago scene as you CLEARLY don’t know WTF you are talking about!! You are (maybe) trying to say that the ‘worst’ of the Bos/Wash population is located in the City? Maybe parts of NJ, as you mentioned later, might have it’s share of less educated, less refined ppl, but just as you can’t compare Chicago to NYC in any way you can’t compare the B & T crowd that invades Manhattan on weekends. THEY are NOT residents of NYC.
In comparison, Chicago’s ratio of uneducated/poor/unrefined is far greater than that of NYC.
“I remember a long time ago I had just turned 18 and was visiting NYC and staying in Elizabeth to save $. No box springs in the motel. The cab driver would ask us why puzzled we were staying in Elizabeth and that it wasn’t safe. I remember walking to a payphone and seeing a pile of trash with hypodermic needles in it a good 5ft high next to an adopt a highway Kiwanis Club of Elizabeth NJ sign. I guess that chapter wasn’t that active back then.”
This statement goes on to prove what I am trying to say…Elizabeth, NJ is NOT NYC.
Sabrina,
Your analysis of NYC vs Chicago is wrong in so many ways. Young people (mainly East Coasters) who received their education come to the city to live and work. The majority of those who do can affford to do so and for the most part have their lives planned out to make this path feasible. They don’t educate themselves, find a $100k /yr job and immediately start reproducing. They lay the groundwork for a successful life by putting of having kids until they are in their 30’s…and even then, most WILL stay on the island, or has been the ‘thing’ now, to continue to regentrify large parts of Brooklyn, Harlem and Queens if they care to have the lawn and that lifestyle. I see NYers having a long term vision of their lives whereas Chicagoans don’t. Hence a good portion of the 20’s – 30’s population being stuck with 1/2 bdrm condos which they now cannot get rid of in order to persue their American Dream in Hinsdale.
It is a whole mindset/lifestyle thing that is the biggest difference. As a rule, NYers are more educated/savvy when it comes to planning their futures. Most come from ‘urban’ families and know full well exactly which steps to take to still have a family while being able to enjoy all this great city has to offer. I don’t think this really occurs in Chicago to a great extent?
As you said yourself ‘There is nothing wrong with that (or either life)’.
“Maybe that will change with the next generation- and Chicago will become more like NYC.”
I wouldn’t bet a month’s rent on it!! Chicagoans are Chicagoans and NYers are NYers. HUGE difference!!
You go on to say:
“Also- am I the only one who actually felt sorry for NY’ers after reading the article in this weekend’s NYT about how 2-bedroom units are “hot” again in New York? (especially those priced $750k to $1 million.)”
Yes, you are the only one who feels sorry for NYers being ‘forced’ to face the fact that 2 bdrm units are ‘hot’ again. The fact is the majority of units in NYC ARE 1 or 2 bdrms. When you enter the 3+ bdrm units, the prices are sky high and are usually reserved for those who have made their fortunes and are ready to enter that phase of their lives.
Take a look at Curbed marketplace to see the difference between the norm 2-3 bdrms and the larger units. The pricing shows you that the larger places are def not ‘starter’ places. Any apartment worth buying as a first time unit will easily exceed a million…and those usually are exceptional places in nice ‘hoods that will retain/appreciate in value.
As you state so many times, there is simply no comparison between the two cities. While Chicago RE is suffering miserably, NYC’s mid to upper level market barely took a hit. Sure there have been price chops but they usualy have been only in the top tier level and not in the starter units.
So no…don’t feel sorry for us. The bottom of the RE buying pool is still strong and it doesn’t make any difference if they include ‘only’ one – 2 bedroom places.
Thanks for a good laugh today!!
So NYC is awesome and we should all love it and how dare anyone suggest differently?
That is not what westloopelo is saying Red G. He is just saying happiness is not defined as leaving in a huge SFH in a suburb for everyone and having 4 kids by the time you are 30. I don’t get this inferiority complex Chicago has. The life styles so far has been just different and the two cities have attracted different types of people. I am not sure the difference will be as significant as time progresses. It is quite possible that urban life style will be revived in Chicago. Of course I could be entirely wrong as well.
“What year was this? How long did you own it?”
We each bought in the 2003-2004 timeframe and held onto them for 6-7 years. We were both single, young professionals when we bought. We both for about what we paid — so at a loss when you account for fees, etc, but we walked away from the transactions with checks, as we had built up equity by paying down the mortgage (and enjoyed the interest deduction on our taxes). Also, we were able to save enough for our new GZ home (and yes we plan on staying here in the city not that I want to get into THAT discussion again) that we didn’t need the jumbo nor did we rely on getting equity out of either of our homes. Saving for a down payment is very possible if you live within your means. The problem is that some Americans are just not good about making trade-offs.
So — I’ll make the same point I continue to try to make — I am not saying that one should count on making money on real estate nor would I ever advocate someone buying what they can’t afford, but to say that buying a nicely priced condo in a good area is a terrible idea for everyone because x,y or z might happen is a bit too broad. If you are prudent about your RE purchase and live within your means buying a home is not likely to put you in financial ruin. period. And I liked Miu Miu’s point too… Putting money in RE is a nice way to diversify your portfolio. Is it guaranteed to give you a return? Absolutely not – but that’s just like any other investment.
As tempting as this NYC v. Chicago discussion is, the weather outside is FINALLY worth spending some time in! Hope you all enjoy this great holiday and take a moment to appreciate our soldiers on this beautiful day.
to sum rngirl, YMMV. She and Mr Rngirl had the good sense to pay down their mortgages, presumably not HELOC them to death and live within their means while saving for their GZ home. Add to that they were able to sell their places — general location would be interesting to know — for enough to “sorta” break even.
Basically sound planning and a little luck paid off.
NYC sucks because of one thing only… its full of New Yorkers and tourists
\
feh
other than that the city is great
I love visiting NYC and go there about once a year. However, I couldn’t imagine living there. It’s just way too filthy in terms of dog shit and garbage bag piles on the sidewalk. I once saw a three-on-three rats versus squirrels fight in Central Park. Chicago is very fortunate to have alleys and dumpsters.
The salaries/bonuses earned by those who work on Wall St. have skewed real estate prices for everyone else in NYC who earns a regular salary. It’s just too much of a struggle if you don’t have money. The quality of rentals and condos are much better in Chicago than NYC, if you are just a working stiff making normal wages.
“While Chicago RE is suffering miserably, NYC’s mid to upper level market barely took a hit. Sure there have been price chops but they usualy have been only in the top tier level and not in the starter units.”
Westloopelo- you’re making my argument perfectly. The article said people had to look in, gasp, Brooklyn, to get anything decently priced for a two bedroom (or some newer construction buildings up in Harlem.) And decently priced means around $800k to a $1 million.
I DO feel sorry for NYers. It’s only a small fraction of the city that can afford that. Everyone else suffers miserably.
I have a friend who just moved to Chicago from Queens. She had a “normal” city government job (hence- living in Queens.) I felt bad for her for years- but not now. Now she’s back where she can actually provide a life for her family. Thank goodness. She is so relieved. The stress she was under trying to “make it” there on a normal salary (again- in Queens)- was just incredible.
Again- we are SO fortunate to live in this great city and get to spend our money on other things than a 2 bedroom co-op in Harlem.
The money my friend spent on rent for her 2-bedroom in Queens, by the way, would have allowed her to rent in anonny’s neighborhood- right in “prime” Lincoln Park.
By the way- back to this property:
An 850 square foot 1/1 in The Regatta in Lakeshore East at 420 E. Waterside Drive just sold for $225,000 (did NOT include the parking.) It was bank owned and originally listed at $289k back in November.
Has peekabo lake views. On the 25th floor. Hardwood floors, cherry, granite, stainless steel, washer/dryer in the unit.
Different location- but larger square footage and newer building. Assessments of $333 a month.
“It’s only a small fraction of the city that can afford that. Everyone else suffers miserably.”
That’s the idea behind it…not everyone can afford it and that keeps it a bit more…exclusive. (said without any type of snottiness). I can compare it to say, the GC or Lincoln Park. For those who can afford to reside in these areas, on a Chicago salary, I can only imagine they too love the fact that not everyone can live in their ‘hood.
I can’t really say that the millions of people living in NYC are suffering miserably. If anything the opposite is true, we love living here.
I don’t mean to dump on Chicago at all…it is just as Sabrina points out, there is no comparison at all. For a very fortunate few life in Manhattan is amazing.
“It’s just way too filthy in terms of dog shit and garbage bag piles on the sidewalk. I once saw a three-on-three rats versus squirrels fight in Central Park. Chicago is very fortunate to have alleys and dumpsters.”
HA no f’ing way! I want to go back soon just to see that 3-on-3! that’s awesome.
@Sabrina
“An 850 square foot 1/1 in The Regatta in Lakeshore East at 420 E. Waterside Drive just sold for $225,000 (did NOT include the parking.)”
I used to live/own in Streeter – inhaling truck fumes while dining outdoors at Volare. This is pre-grocery market days (aside from the treasure island).
Neighborhood preferences aside and not knowing about the Regatta, I think that this is a better deal than 1212 N. LaSalle
@chichow
If this is the unit Sabrina is talking about:
http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/420-E-Waterside-Dr-60601/unit-2502/home/21818699
I have to say it is very unattractive in terms of kitchen layout and the view. I think in terms of the location while this might be a better option, the unit featured here on Lasalle being a corner unit and all looks much nicer inside.
Regardless, we are seeing prices going down in two prime GZ locations.
westie… I understood what you meant right away.. LOL…Didn’t know you went back home. You should head down to the SI ferry terminal this morning and soak in the cultured NYC people as they exit the ferry. Not yours or mine as far as definition of NYC goes… But i checked wiki and yes…they are! Then off to Bed Stuy you go for part 2 of cultured NYC day.
All kiddin aside, glad you are happy there. Chi obviously was not for you.
“The money my friend spent on rent for her 2-bedroom in Queens, by the way, would have allowed her to rent in anonny’s neighborhood- right in “prime” Lincoln Park.”
Indeed, Sabrina, and that was EXACTLY the point I was trying to drive home with:
“Talk with some New Yorkers. Go spend a little time in NYC, and chat with the folks who want to remain in the city – even with, and for some, especially with, kids. For such folks, the zone with all the tall buildings (here, the Loop) isn’t just a place to earn a high income during the day and occassionally return from the burbs with the kids for shopping or various activities. Yes, hang out in the nicest areas of Manhattan, and talk with such folks about housing…
…Then return to the nicest areas of Chicago. That large 2/2 in a prime neighborhood – with parking, ac, and in-unit w/d, not to mention good to great elementary schools – is going to seem pretty fantastic, and certainly suitable for a professional couple to start a family.”
That wasn’t intended to spark yet another NYC vs. Chicago subthread. It was meant to illustrate the fact that, for those Chicagoans who want to start a family while living in the city, and for whom location and easy access to the city’s most prized ammenities are paramount, then they are LUCKY to be able to rent or buy nice 2/2’s to facilitate that life. But the thing is, as others have pointed out, such folks are apparently a tiny minority here in the midwest. (Oddly enough, when I lived in NY, I knew several people from the midwest, none of whom seemed to miss living in a house in the Chicago burbs.)
“now that’s by far the worst city on the corridor unless you include baltimore.”
Do you not consider Wilmington a “city”? Providence? Hartford/New Haven (depending on how you route the “corridor”)? At least Philly has nice suburbs that are its own suburbs.
Hi Everyone
Just as an FYI – This unit was sold WITHOUT PARKING. My office inputted the listing incorrectly, and it was since changed. We are now under contract.
As for why there was debate on the whether or not our full price offer would be accepted: We had not seen pre-approval, which is why we were continuing to show the property. Once we had that, my sellers were happy to take the offer.
For those who are critical of the area: You really need to have a realistic expectation of what $200K will buy you even in this very bad (sellers) market. The reason this property sold so fast (and the reason why I continued to get several requests to show the property after we agreed on to terms, requests I declined) is because it is very difficult to find a unit with these types of upgrades, floor to ceiling windows, close to L, grocery store, pretty nice views, and close to Wells Street, Gold Coast, Lakefront at this price point.
This property got a contract about 30 hours into the listing. Property does not sell in this market unless the pricing is on point (or below market, short sales, foreclosures, etc.), because people will do everything they can do make sure they are not getting themselves into a bad deal. My buyers all see 40+ properties before making a decision, and once “the one” is found, it is usually because it compared so favorably to all the other “garbage” out there. Obviously, I am dumbing this down quite a bit, but in short that is what I am seeing with my experience.
Thanks
John Vossoughi
@properties
thanks for that John.
@John
Thanks for the update.
It’s refreshing to see a measured response.
Best of luck
A familiar refrain: price is the primary, if not almost the only, reason why buyers purchase in this market.
“This property got a contract about 30 hours into the listing. Property does not sell in this market unless the pricing is on point (or below market, short sales, foreclosures, etc.), because people will do everything they can do make sure they are not getting themselves into a bad deal.”