Graceland West 2-Bedroom Now $35,000 Under the 2001 Price: 4017 N. Southport
We last chattered about this 2-bedroom at 4017 N. Southport in the Graceland West neighborhood of Lakeview in May 2011.
See our May 2011 chatter here.
The unit was then listed for $11,000 under the 2001 purchase price at $229,000.
With central air, an in-unit washer/dryer and deeded parking included, many of you thought it would sell at that price as a starter condo.
Instead, it is still available and was recently reduced again.
It is now listed $35,000 under the 2001 purchase price at $205,000.
The unit has hardwood floors, french doors and a fireplace.
The kitchen has 42 inch cabinets, granite counter tops and black appliances.
If it should have sold at the May price, is this now a steal?
Stephanie Biderman at Koenig & Strey Real Living still has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #1: 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, no square footage listed
- Sold in April 2001 for $240,000
- Sold in October 2007 for $301,000
- Originally listed in September 2010 for $279,000
- Reduced numerous times
- Was listed in May 2011 for $229,000 (includes parking)
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $205,000 (includes the parking)
- Assessments of $256 a month
- Taxes of $3526
- Central Air
- In-unit washer/dryer
- Bedroom #1: 10×11
- Bedroom #2: 10×11
- Living room: 18×11
- Kitchen: 11×11
A very ordinary 2 bed 1 bath indistinguishable for thousands just like it on all the neighborhoods of the north side from Lakeview up to Evanston.
$180K because of its excellent location only.
its too hot out to use up energy chatting about this place or if graceland west is a real hood.
i shall wait till bri bri gives me something to stir my blood.
Sorry Groove- but with the CCRD down all weekend long (this is now becoming the norm, I’m afraid)- today’s posts aren’t going to do much to stir your blood.
But just wait until tomorrow! I have some juicy posts coming once the database comes back online.
“$180K because of its excellent location only.”
This would be, what, about 1997 or 1998 prices right?
The photos are terrible…the agent needs to stage/market this better. Kitchen is a little dull/cheap.
“Sorry Groove- but with the CCRD down all weekend long (this is now becoming the norm, I’m afraid)- today’s posts aren’t going to do much to stir your blood.”
for some reason i swear i saw this place on that first time home buyer HGTV show. you know the one where the show “only” 3 homes and the choose from “only” those 3 😉
but hey for under 200k this place isnt really that bad, i would still rather rent if this was my price range for the area, or buy a bungalow in PP for this price if area wanst a concern.
“Kitchen is a little dull/cheap.”
That is mildly put.
You guys really have no idea how real estate investments work!!! You still can make a LOT of money in real estate EVEN IF PRICES DON’T INCREASE. Let me use this place as an example.
Let’s say you buy this place for 200k cash.
Let’s say rent is 1250/month (low).
Your profit is 700/month or 8400/year – not a great return but not bad (4.2%).
OK – let’s say then, that you keep it for 25 years and let’s assume that rents don’t increase in the next 25 years. During that time, you will have made 210,000 in rent profit (ie, you will have made your money back).
OK- at that time (20 years from now), let’s say you sell the unit for 200k (bc prices haven’t increased in 20 years!!).
Your entire PROFIT is 210k on a 200k investment. When you do the averages, this comes out to a 10% return (because your average expense or money you have into the place is 100k – 200k at the beginning, 0 at the end bc you recovered all of it – so the average is 100k. Your average yearly profit is 210k/20years or about 10k. Therefore your average rate of return is 10k/100k = 10%).
AND THIS IS ASSUMING THAT YOU SELL FOR THE SAME PRICE YOU BOUGHT IT and RENTS DONT INCREASE!!! I know that there is vacancy time, increased taxes, increased assessments – but the true appreciation and rent increases will more than cover these expenses.
Kind of laughable, I wonder what would happen to your analysis if someone told you about opportunity cost or the time value of money.
Anyway, as a professional I would be embarrassed to have such terrible pictures on a listing, and I would fire my agent if I found that those were the ones that were on there. Pathetic.
OUCH: Good bye $100,000 down payment. That sucks. I feel terrible for this seller. $100,000 is hard to come by, it takes years to save that kind of money for the average 2/1 buyer.
But on the upside the seller is probably going to get a steal on the next purchase, I bet the seller probably is saving $100,000 or MORE off the 2007 price of whatever the seller buys although it may be out of state.
This is a nice unit in a great location. The pictures are a little substandard but that can be easily fixed. This will sell quickly to a happy buyer who is will get a deal.
I will go with $195,000 for this since it includes the parking.
The bathroom is really tiny and I hate pedestal sinks in full baths, but otherwise, it seems like a decent place for the price.
I wouldn’t pick this area and I don’t like the deck in the back, but this still seems like a reasonable price for the area.
nice post HD,
the real HD tok hold but you pushed hard and fought it so you were able to throw in a new HD blurb.
the real HD is inside i know you can hear me, keep fighting keep fighting i will track down mario greco and a priest will will perform a RE exor
“Your entire PROFIT is 210k on a 200k investment. When you do the averages, this comes out to a 10% return”
This entire post is so lol and full of fucked up math I don’t even know where to begin. Your 20 year scenario yields an annualized return of 3.23% + inflation (we’ll just assume rents, value and costs all track with it). Granted that doesn’t include reinvesting profit (nor does it include misc overhead, the real figure is probably closer to 2%-2.5%), but still a miserable return that can be easily beaten with a well diversified stock and bond portfolio without all the landlording headaches.
I think the price is still higher than 1997/98 levels. In 1997, we bought a 2-bedroom on a high floor of a modern high rise on Lakeview Avenue overlooking Lincoln Park and the lake for just over $200,000. At the time, it was the highest price ever for a 2 BR in the building. Most were selling for $180,000 to $190,000 at the time, if memory serves. I’d imagine condos in west Graceland at the time had to be selling for even less, considering the difference in location. Maybe in the 160s?
Bob 2 I think you forgetting to include the value of the property at the end of 20 years.
Agree with everyone on the kitchen and the quality of the photos. Not acceptable.
The kitchen looks like it belongs in a $600/month 1 bedroom in some housing complex surrounded by acres of parking lots alongside an expressway in Bensenville.
“Bob 2 I think you forgetting to include the value of the property at the end of 20 years.”
No, in this scenario we assumed that everything tracks inflation. If you want add an extra 1% for appreciation on the condo itself.
And just so everyone understands. Clio starts out with 8400 profit on a 200k investment. That’s an average return of 4.2%. He then multiplies that by 25 years and gets 210k. He then calculates his return using only 20 years, but uses the 25 year figure. He then also lowers his investment from 200k to 100k to get an average return of about 10%.
It’s completely fucked up. Getting back your investment doesn’t increase your return, it just means you haven’t lost money.
“I know that there is vacancy time, increased taxes, increased assessments – but the true appreciation and rent increases will more than cover these expenses.”
Clio, don’t forget, in that 20 year scenario, there’s bound to be expenses incurred with either updates/upgrades or damages caused by tennants. Or even routine maintenance.
I think that if they’d come out at this price a year ago they wouldn’t still be stuck with it. The 300 days on the market is like the final nail in the coffin for this listing – bad photos, lack of a second bathroom, tiny bedrooms and possibly not FHA approved. It’s got a lot going for it (parking, Blaine, reasonable assessments) so I think they’ll probably be under contract within the next month or two. I’m going to say $192k. Unless of course there is some kind of special, or the buyer still has their head in the sand of course.
LOL @ clio. That’s all I can say. You must have never underwritten an income property in your entire life.
I don’t mind the kitchen. As long as a kitchen has a dishwasher, I’m fine. I would actually like to have two dishwashers. I could live without a stove/oven.
The cabinets look decent. The counter tops seem to be granite. I’m picky about counter tops.
“I would actually like to have two dishwashers. I could live without a stove/oven.”
You envision:
1. Not having to empty your clean dishwasher, putting dirty plates in the other dishwasher until you need to run that one, at which point it becomes the clean dishwasher?
2. Serving lots of takeout at v large and convivial dinner parties, for which you’ll need more than 1 dishwasher?
3. Having enough room to store all your dirty dishes until you can take them home to be cleaned by your mother?
I’d really like it to be (3), but am betting on (1), although don’t understand why you don’t just use chinet.
Jenny, do you eat raw? ; )
seems you consume dishes but don’t cook, unless of course you cook in the microwave. If that is the case, does the food taste ok? (I have only used microwave for reheating)
microwaves suck
DZ – It’s 1.
I buy a lot of pre-made meals from Whole Foods and just heat them up in the microwave… or I eat left overs, which I heat in the microwave. I don’t like eating. There is a video of me at my first birthday making a disgusted face after being fed cake.
“microwaves suck”
Absolute best way to cook corn in the husk (unless you want to grill).
“Absolute best way to cook corn in the husk (unless you want to grill).”
What’s the third option?
“What’s the third option?”
I’ve heard there are people who heat up giant vats of water…
“I’ve heard there are people who heat up giant vats of water…”
People with stoves, that is. (Possibly you could cook them in dishwasher.)
“I’ve heard there are people who heat up giant vats of water…”
In the husk? Really?
“Possibly you could cook them in dishwasher.”
I would *definitely* rate that a distant third, even if it worked well.
“In the husk? Really?”
The silks are much easier to get off when cooked. I know at least 2 people who will break off any appreciable stalk, pull off any stray husk, cook in a pot, and de-husk at end.
While all of the preceding is true, my initial statement was imprecise. I meant to say that it’s the best method period (other than grilling) if you are starting with corn with husks, not nec cooking in the husk.
in the husk… grilled! remove from husk.. butter… back on grill. If I were in Chicago I’d be all over sweet corn next couple of months.
OK.. Microwaves are good for popcorn.
And I would love to see the guests face as you pulled steak off the grill and then opened the dishwasher to plate their corn.
One of the very few things I am allergic to is corn.
“Your entire PROFIT is 210k on a 200k investment. When you do the averages, this comes out to a 10% return (because your average expense or money you have into the place is 100k – 200k at the beginning, 0 at the end bc you recovered all of it – so the average is 100k. Your average yearly profit is 210k/20years or about 10k. Therefore your average rate of return is 10k/100k = 10%)”
@Clio, you are so bad at basic math it is funny. Thank you for the unintended humor.
“And just so everyone understands. Clio starts out with 8400 profit on a 200k investment. That’s an average return of 4.2%. He then multiplies that by 25 years and gets 210k. He then calculates his return using only 20 years, but uses the 25 year figure. He then also lowers his investment from 200k to 100k to get an average return of about 10%.”
Huh? I don’t know why people don’t understand this – oh well, all – please remember that I am probably the only one on this site with several million dollars in real estate – so why don’t you do the the math on that!!!
it’s funny clio, because what you say isnt really so wrong. It’s just such a wrong way to look at it. At some point, when all is paid back, your way moves your return to infinity.
“I am probably the only one on this site with several million dollars in real estate – so why don’t you do the the math on that!!!”
Reminds me of the old joke:
“Tell me how I can end up with one million dollars in the stock market.” He scratched his head, then lowered his head and looked at me over the top of those thick glasses and said, “Start with $2 million.””
There is nothing wrong with my math, morons.
The 8400/year profit comes to 210k in 25 years (which pays for your initial investment of 200k). At 25 years, let’s say that the unit was still 200k (which it never would be). Your TOTAL take for the place would be 410k: 210k (from the rent profit over the 25 years) PLUS the 200k that you would get from the sale. Your total investment is 200k.
This translates to a profit of 210k over 25 years. Now if you want to calculate ROI – you have to take the AVERAGE amount you have invested in the property as the denominator (ie – you can’t take 200k because that number is being paid down by rent each year) so you take an average (200k was invested at year 1, 0 investment at year 25 – because the rent paid off the initial 200k) – so basically, your average investment was 100k over the period of the investment.
OK – now take your profit – 210k and divide that by 25 (8400) and divide that by the average investment amount (100k) – and you will see that you get 8.4% – this number is likely to be MUCH higher because the rent in 25 years will be a LOT higher than today and the price of the unit, guaranteed will be a LOT higher than 200k.
Wow, still terrible. Keep on trolling. Your investment amount isn’t magically lowered by your profits.
What would your cash on cash return be? Obviously there’s maintenance, rising property taxes, and also dealing with tenant rollover. Also, you pay interest on what you had to borrow as well, and you are kind of assuming that it’s perfectly ok with the association to rent it out…
“Damn it, Jim! I’m a doctor/real estate investor, not a mathematician!”
hd – instead of idiotic insults – tell me how I am wrong!!
clio is an underpants gnome
Dave M, this is all true, but the increased rent and appreciation will MORE than compensate for the vacancy rate, increased taxes and repairs. I am also assuming 100% cash payment – no mortage
Why not just buy 2 flats and rent them out if you are paying cash? Too risky to buy into condos for the long-term – you never know what will happen with the association, and where assessments will go.
“clio is an underpants gnome”
CLIO HAS AN AFRO WITH A CHIN STRAP
“clio is an underpants gnome”
Aaaaaaannnd CH just won the thread!
Oh, I get it – when you guys realize that I am right, you resort to avoidance and insults!!! I understand…..
@Clio, you are just too FUNNY. You rehashed the same crap from your first post trying to convince people, but it was just as stupid the second time around. It will be if you make a third attempt too. To most people who understand basic investing math (at the 9th grade level or better) it’s fairly obvious why you are wrong, but since you haven’t been a nice person on here, I think we should all take pleasure in not explaining it to you.
“I am probably the only one on this site with several million dollars in real estate – so why don’t you do the the math on that!!!”
-Yeah, and it’s all declining in value, congratulations.
OK – just saying I am wrong doesn’t prove anything. Again, I am probably the only one on here that owns several properties – I know what I am talking about. The only thing I can’t understand is why I keep trying to convince ignorant arrogant poor people how to make money. I should just let you guys keep posting here from your crappy rentals. Have fun doing that for the next twenty years losers.
Clio you are an ass, but on this, in some COMPLETELY fucked up way, I’ll admit, you really are not wrong.
To be honest, I like having some tangible investments too. Everyone always talks about stocks as if they can never lose their value and become nothing. After the recent stock market bubbles, you’d think they would be a little more cautious.
As long as a property is at rent/own parity, I’d be happy to buy it as my residence. Now investment properties obviously have to do better than parity.
“I should just let you guys keep posting here from your crappy rentals. Have fun doing that for the next twenty years losers.’
There are plenty of people who become rich being renters (especially in rent controlled cities like NY and San Francisco.)
But which would I rather be: the sellers of this condo on Southport who literally are going to lose $100,000 in less than 5 years or a renter living down the street paying $1400 a month for this same style unit?
If you know you’re not going to live there for 7 to 10 years to ride out the downturn- then it makes sense to rent.
There IS money to be made in real estate. We see it all the time on Crib Chatter (in the renovations/flips.) But most people buy for something to live in. And right now- that is NOT an “investment” by any stretch of the word.
Buyers better be buying for the long haul so they can sit tight, pay off the mortgage and that is it. Chicago historically has seen 1% to 3% appreciation. We haven’t even bottomed yet. When we do- you’ll see 1% to 3% a year. That is it. Why anyone thinks 1% appreciation is “good” is beyond me. But you have to have somewhere to live. That, and only that, should be your focus.
People should pay attention to the properties covered on Crib Chatter that have the 1990 to 2000 purchase prices listed. Usually they were bought for, say, $183,000 in 1991 and sold in 1995 for $197,000 or whatever. They made little to no money once transaction fees were paid.
That was the “normal” market. That is what we’ll see again once we DO get appreciation.
“Why not just buy 2 flats and rent them out if you are paying cash? Too risky to buy into condos for the long-term – you never know what will happen with the association, and where assessments will go.”
I’m with you Dave M. PLENTY of these properties all around the city.
Now Clio.. to show you why what you are saying is not correct. If you invested 200k and compounded your return at 8% what would you have at the end of 25 years?
Even the little game you are playing with math tricks, buying back your own investment to pump your return, won’t get you to the same sum as my above question. Keep everything in a closed entity, give yourself 4.2% return on cash, and you will see.
You are doing a mathematical trick on yourself.
“People should pay attention to the properties covered on Crib Chatter that have the 1990 to 2000 purchase prices listed. Usually they were bought for, say, $183,000 in 1991 and sold in 1995 for $197,000 or whatever. They made little to no money once transaction fees were paid.”
I totally agree – people who buy should either buy to live in long term or buy to rent it out for long term. As I showed (3 times on this thread), even this property would make a great investment even if it doesn’t appreciate very much in the next twenty years. Once again, the winners are those with long term vision and patience.
ze – there is no such thing as a stable investment that will pay 8% – and don’t give me retrospective data or the nonsense that the stock market pays an average of 8% a year – anyone with any knowledge knows this is not true. Honestly, if someone would guarantee a 6% return over 15 years, I could come up with at least 10 million dollars to invest by tomorrow (not my money – but my friends, etc – yeah, we talk about this all the time).
If you invested $100 and it paid $5 a year in perpetuity, isn’t that a 5 percent return? Not with clio’s methodology.
“ze – there is no such thing as a stable investment that will pay 8%”
I implied nothing of the sort. You said it would return 8.4%. I am slowly walking you to the difference. I see what you did, I just find it funny.
6%.. snore!!!
“But which would I rather be: the sellers of this condo on Southport who literally are going to lose $100,000 in less than 5 years or a renter living down the street paying $1400 a month for this same style unit?”
In 01-06 the opposite could be said. In all fairness this swings both ways.
“Honestly, if someone would guarantee a 6% return over 15 years, I could come up with at least 10 million dollars to invest by tomorrow (not my money – but my friends, etc – yeah, we talk about this all the time).”
There is no such thing as a “guarantee” in any investment. It doesn’t exist.
But, like housing, if you’re in the stock market long enough to ride out all the cycles, and you buy normal companies that have been around for forever (like railroads, for just one example), and they pay dividends, you’ll do very, very well for yourself over the same time period in which you own your home.
You can be one of those rich grannies you read about in the newspaper who never made more than $30,000 a year but dies with $3 million in the bank. That’s because they almost all have been in the stock market for 40 to 50 years (sometimes more.)
The power of compounding is an amazing thing.
People simply don’t own an asset long enough to make anything on it. They’re too impatient (whether or not it’s housing, stocks, bonds or whatever.)
We are at the bottom right now – anyone who buys a decent place in a decent neighborhood and holds on to it for 10 years is absolutely going to make money (the return will vary depending on numerous factors). This thinking that prices are going to continue to drop is idiotic (especially when talking about prime areas). Will prices drop in Englewood – yes. Will they drop in the gold coast, lincoln park, streeterville – no.
you are a yahoo – go buy a Walgreens. And buy one in What Cheer, Iowa (or similar locale) if you want to make 8%.
sabrina, I totally agree with you and if I could do it over again, I would invest it all in the stock market (not really because of the returns, but because of the headaches in owning rental properties and the benefit of having liquidity in the stocks). However, my examples and posts are meant to encourage those who already own or those who really enjoy being a landlord to go ahead and buy property – because you really still can make good money in it. Now is the perfect time to buy – we really are at the bottom in the good neighborhoods.
“In 01-06 the opposite could be said. In all fairness this swings both ways.’
Okay- so you’re saying Ze- that the buyer in 2006 didn’t know what was about to happen. Fair enough. But I can give you an example of the buyer in 2008, 2009 and, yes, even 2010 now- who are ALSO trying to sell and losing $25k, $50k, $100k or more- in just 1 to 3 years.
So let’s use that example instead. Because THOSE buyers should have known better, right? They should have known they were catching a falling knife, correct?
Would I rather be the person who bought a condo in 2009 and is now about to lose $25k to 50k or a renter living down the street paying $1400 a month?
It’s the same question. So I don’t think those people who are renting right now are “losers.” No- they are making a calculated financial decision that it will save them loads of money (and give them freedom to move to a new neighborhood, city etc. at a moment’s notice.)
“This thinking that prices are going to continue to drop is idiotic ”
Strange, I am almost completely neutral now , but yet I think the bottom is near because this thing is finally about to capitulate. More down still to come. Hopefully fast, hard, and painful. One may hope!
“So I don’t think those people who are renting right now are “losers.” No- they are making a calculated financial decision that it will save them loads of money”
We’ll see if you are saying the same thing in 5 years – I highly highly doubt it.
“This thinking that prices are going to continue to drop is idiotic (especially when talking about prime areas). Will prices drop in Englewood – yes. Will they drop in the gold coast, lincoln park, streeterville – no.”
Actually- you are wrong Clio. Prices began falling first in Englewood and other non-GZ areas. Foreclosures have been ravaging those neighborhoods for years. But those are drying up- so there IS some price stability beginning to be seen in those areas. Prices are down, in some properties, by 80% or more.
Conversely, the bust has been much slower in the “prime” neighborhoods. Owners had more money to hold on during the recession and they’ve been willing to price higher in the hope of selling (and then are taking years to finally sell.)
The price declines are coming more quickly now in the prime areas- not the other way around. As was just discussed in the Tribune a week ago- prices of Lakeview 2/2s, for instance, fell 10% in May 2011 from May 2010. This is NOT stabilization. Not at all.
The one thing holding back even larger price declines in the “prime” areas is inventory. It is definitely down from prior years. Sellers are either taking the property off the market or renting it out. But eventually- those listings WILL return to the market, and then what?
Sales continue to be near all time lows in the prime areas. This is not a sign of a healthy or normal market (especially with record low interest rates.)
“We’ll see if you are saying the same thing in 5 years – I highly highly doubt it.’
The property bought right now will be worth less in 5 years. So yes, I still think the renter will come out ahead in five years. I don’t believe the Chicago housing market will hit bottom until possibly next summer. But all bets are off if interest rates spike higher.
“But I can give you an example of the buyer in 2008, 2009 and, yes, even 2010 now- who are ALSO trying to sell and losing $25k, $50k, $100k or more- in just 1 to 3 years.”
See that’s not fair… you can’t do that for a buyer in ’12 and tell me where he/she is in ’15.
I was a bear of bears ever since I came on this site, but did I ever really KNOW? Of course not! I was a bull on Rio, did I see what was coming, not even close, not even within multiples.
Do I ever designate homeowners, renters, surfers that sleep in the back of their van losers? Not me! All I will say is when I look at the risk surfaces the renter has a bad position on and if they are not getting a discount to parity or plan to move, they need to change that position, if they can.
now if it’s 72 outside and you’re in a cubicle somewhere.. then I’ll throw the “loser” word out there…
“I was a bear of bears ever since I came on this site, but did I ever really KNOW? Of course not! I was a bull on Rio, did I see what was coming, not even close, not even within multiples.”
It’s not hard to figure out bear markets. Once you’re in one, you’re in one for years. So, yes, I could have told the person buying in 2008, 2009 and 2010 that they will (and are going to) lose money if they sell in 2011 or 2012. (outside of the flipper/renovators, that is.)
Sure- things will eventually change. The job market will get better. Homebuyers will save enough for a downpayment so more will be able to buy (and demand, and prices, will rise.) But interest rates will also not be at the lowest they’ve ever been in 50 years.
The US is a monthly payment nation. When the montly payment rises- home prices will fall.
Could we be Japan with these interest rates for the next 10 years? Sure- anything is possible.
“It’s not hard to figure out bear markets.”
Wish I did at 666. I missed that one big time.
“When the montly payment rises- home prices will fall.”
With what I’m seeing, if that’s true, prepare for the new phrase to be “I’ll bet you a SFH vs a donut.”
“It’s not hard to figure out bear markets.”
Wish I did at 666. I missed that one big time.”
As did 99% of people (except for a genius few who post here about how they bought bank stocks EXACTLY at the low. Imagine that?)
i was under the impression that clio was not supposed to post here anymore. is this his identical twin?
Groove – how old are you? and you have kids with that level of immaturity?!!
“Groove – how old are you? and you have kids with that level of immaturity?!!”
thats why the kids have so much fun with me, our egjewmakation level is the same 😉
maturity sucks more than even microwaves.
“Usually they were bought for, say, $183,000 in 1991 and sold in 1995 for $197,000 or whatever. … That was the “normal” market.”
“It’s not hard to figure out bear markets.”
Seems that it is, when you call a bear market a “normal” market in the same thread.
Also: “Once you’re in one, you’re in one for years.”
We have been for 5 years, so we’ve satisfied your “test”; does that mean we could be out of the bear anytime now? Or that it will continue for years more? How easy is it to tell when it’s over? which is a necessary part of “figuring out” bear markets.
“thats why the kids have so much fun with me, our egjewmakation level is the same”
I see what you did there, and I think you owe someone an apology.
anon… Those were all rhetorical questions?
“maturity sucks more than even microwaves.”
It is wisdom like this that keeps CC afloat.
“anon… Those were all rhetorical questions?”
And this was, too?
(We could play that game all day, but we’d have to be a bit more creative)
“Seems that it is, when you call a bear market a “normal” market in the same thread.”
What don’t you guys get?
We’re IN a bear market. Duh! Sales volume at record lows and prices still dropping.
The 1990 to 2000 “normal” market I told people to look at- is what everyone is saying the next few years will be like. I’m not saying we’re going to be in a bear market in 2015. I’m telling people to consider what a “normal” Chicago market is- and then calculate how much money they’ll “make” in a normal market.
Most people on this blog have no idea what a “normal” market is. They are too young to remember the 1990s or earlier when there was simply 1% appreciation a year.
The last 10 years hasn’t been “normal” (neither the bubble nor the bust.)
So if you’re buying- you’d better consider that if you got to sell in 5 years in a “normal” market- you’ll be lucky to make back your 8% transaction costs.
“We have been for 5 years, so we’ve satisfied your “test”; does that mean we could be out of the bear anytime now? Or that it will continue for years more? How easy is it to tell when it’s over? which is a necessary part of “figuring out” bear markets.”
Look at the great depression’s housing market. That is the only thing we have to compare it to. It took about 15 years (and men coming back from the war) to return to a “normal” market. Remember, there wasn’t a new apartment building built in Chicago for 6 years in that time.
I don’t know when appreciation started again. Prices were down more in that bust.
“What don’t you guys get?”
1991 to 1995 was a bear market. Yeah, yeah, prices were going up, but they were lagging inflation badly. Check it out.
“I see what you did there, and I think you owe someone an apology”
sorry you right need to abide by wolf pack rule #37. My deepest apologies.
“We are at the bottom right now – anyone who buys a decent place in a decent neighborhood and holds on to it for 10 years is absolutely going to make money (the return will vary depending on numerous factors).”
I wonder who is better at research and calculating an ROIs, Clio or Suzanne from Countrywide? They both seem good at providing those “absolute” guarantees.
The best advice:
Rent till you’re rich. Come to Cribchatter for schadenfreude and laughs at watching Clio attempt remedial math.
“Actually- you are wrong Clio. Prices began falling first in Englewood and other non-GZ areas. Foreclosures have been ravaging those neighborhoods for years. But those are drying up- so there IS some price stability beginning to be seen in those areas. Prices are down, in some properties, by 80% or more.”
Thank you for pointing this out Sabrina. 80% or more is no exaggeration. I’ve seen modern units down 90%. These are numbers on the ground RIGHT NOW. The crappy areas increased more during the bubble, so naturally they deflate proportionally. I don’t think GZ and nice suburbs will fall THAT much, but they will fall much further than they have. By the time the dust has settled we will see all of the sub-standard areas down 90% and the GZ and nice burbs down 55-70%. Could take a while though, there are a lot of stubborn and hopeful fools out there. In Japan it was a 17 year decline from the peak in their RE bubble. I’d estimate 15-25 years here, depending on the timing of the withdraw of artificial government support of the RE market.
” By the time the dust has settled we will see all of the sub-standard areas down 90% and the GZ and nice burbs down 55-70%”
…and you call my posts laughable?!! Brad, you are a total moron/idiot for even thinking this. Obviously, you are a young person who rents – nobody with half a brain, experience or any sense whatsoever could even think that this is a possibility. Open your fucking eyes – look at what has sold in the past month in the green zone (go to redfin and use their option to look at sales prices). No – moron, prices are not going down 70%. This type of post is dangerous and gives renters peace of mind that they are doing the right thing -but what happens in 2015 when these renters will absolutely be priced out of buying. Believe me, they are going to be incredibly angry.
“nobody with half a brain, experience or any sense whatsoever could even think that this is a possibility. ”
That’s what I thought about someone betting that June 2011 sales volume would top the dough4dumps-inflated June 2010 total. You are a verified moron and idiot, clio, as well as a liar whose word is no good.
“Groove – how old are you? and you have kids with that level of immaturity?!!”
Yes, groove, you should teach your child to lie and not honor his word. Then your kid can be like clio. A real winner.
G, it was a BS internet bet. Honestly you are taking this too far. Cannot you be a bit more gracious with your win. So what is next a duel?
“By the time the dust has settled we will see all of the sub-standard areas down 90% and the GZ and nice burbs down 55-70%.”
I don’t believe this will happen either. As for Japan, it was a very different story: housing bubble there happened because of bad policies of Bank of Japan and huge foreign investment as a result of belief that economy will keep doing wonders. Sure bad policies exist here but no one thinks US is a booming economy. Au contraire, most will bet otherwise. So there is no huge speculation going on the entire assets here. Now what happened in Japan might very well happen in Brazil if their regulators fail.
“Yes, groove, you should teach your child to lie and not honor his word. Then your kid can be like clio. A real winner.”
he started that a long time ago, i would ask him if he has poop in his diaper. he would say “not meeeee”. he even doesnt honor his word, i say if your good today at target we will have chocolate milk and you will get a race car. once race car is in hand the bet is off and he turns on full spectrum tantrums.
oh wait!!!!!! maybe he is showing early development traits that he will be a RE investing doctor?
What did I win if the bet isn’t honored, oh great and all-knowing moomoo? Perhaps, in your culture a person should not honor their word. Here, it makes him a liar. Then again, when you were called out for lying about my positions before, you wanted to dismiss that, as well. Birds if a feather…
G – please take your meds. seriously, you have some major neurotic tendencies.
Sabrina has posted on the 80-90% declines….
http://cribchatter.com/?p=10043
“Thank you for pointing this out Sabrina. 80% or more is no exaggeration. I’ve seen modern units down 90%. These are numbers on the ground RIGHT NOW. The crappy areas increased more during the bubble, so naturally they deflate proportionally. I don’t think GZ and nice suburbs will fall THAT much, but they will fall much further than they have. By the time the dust has settled we will see all of the sub-standard areas down 90% and the GZ and nice burbs down 55-70%. Could take a while though, there are a lot of stubborn and hopeful fools out there. In Japan it was a 17 year decline from the peak in their RE bubble. I’d estimate 15-25 years here, depending on the timing of the withdraw of artificial government support of the RE market.”
Way to argue against facts with nonsense, clio. You are not a man of your word and we all know it. You are also a proven idiot and moron about real estate.
Yes, I hear you. According to you I am a lier and evil person. By the way I don’t even remember what was the initial dispute and my alleged lies were about. But, I trust that you do : )
Man G string, chill a bit. It is not even 9 am and you are full force on the attack.
BTW, I wish for once you’d respond to my statement without bringing up my culture. You know people are not that different really.
“G – please take your meds. seriously, you have some major neurotic tendencies.”
Look who is talking. G is probably far from the only one on here that needs to take his meds….
“Sabrina has posted on the 80-90% declines….”
Benjamon – Sabrina is not the “final word” or “authority” on real estate. Just because she posts something doesn’t mean it is true. Now go back to your baby bottle and let the adults discuss real estate
miumiu – “G-string” – I LOVE IT!!!!!!
I agree Miumiu. Who cares about the stupid bet?
Isn’t it enough that Clio was obviously wrong? That is a “win” and that is all G should need.
Men! Only women know how to play nice.
And G, it’s not very classy to attack Miumiu.
@ benjamon9, sure, but she has also posted properties that sold over 06 prices. Only time would tell of course, but personally I don’t think there will be 80-90% declines for the entire market.
“look at what has sold in the past month in the green zone”
I would say those prices are down anywhere from 20% to 70% (depending on how many distress sales sold.)
We’re still seeing a large proportion of distress sales- even in the GZ. If you strip those sales out of the data- it’s an even worse market (in terms of the number of sales).
Clio and Miu, I was using that to agree with Brad’s statement that 80-90% is real and occurring on the ground. I was not trying to support or refute his projectiions.
Also, I will agree Sabrina is not the final word on real estate, but are you claiming Clio that the duplex I listed did not fall more than 90%? $325k to $15k….sure looks like it to me whether or not Sabrina had posted on it.
Brad F on July 20th, 2011 at 2:43 am
“By the time the dust has settled we will see all of the sub-standard areas down 90% and the GZ and nice burbs down 55-70%.”
Sabrina on July 20th, 2011 at 7:38 am
“I would say those prices are down anywhere from 20% to 70%”
So, we must be at the bottom now then…
I know Sabrina and yet they accuse us of being catty. After all nature has left having kids to us so one can guess which gender is balanced and trustworthy : )…now I am kidding you all before I get assassinated…hehe
“By the way I don’t even remember what was the initial dispute and my alleged lies were about. ”
That’s the problem with telling them, moomoo.
“So, we must be at the bottom now then…”
In some buildings- yes. That would be 33 W. Ontario, The Sterling etc. But I caveat that by what interest rates do. If we see a spike in those- then there would be another leg down even in buildings where foreclosures have run rampant for years.
chukdotcom: we are past the bottom. We may be here a while, but it’s already baked into the cake.
“Also, I will agree Sabrina is not the final word on real estate, but are you claiming Clio that the duplex I listed did not fall more than 90%? $325k to $15k….sure looks like it to me whether or not Sabrina had posted on it.”
For every property like this there are properties which I can show you that sold for well over what the previous owners paid. That is the problem with cherry picking the properties which support your argument.
I agree on the rent till your rich advice. It gives you so much more flexibility, especially in a career that could require relocating every 3-5 years.
But this is the part I don’t follow:
Brad F on July 20th, 2011 at 2:43 am
“I don’t think GZ and nice suburbs will fall THAT much, but they will fall much further than they have.
By the time the dust has settled we will see all of the sub-standard areas down 90% and the GZ and nice burbs down 55-70%.”
So if they are already down 20-70%, then how can they fall “much further than they have”.
Brad is predicting much more downside, but Sabrina is saying that predicted downside has already occurred.
“And G, it’s not very classy to attack Miumiu.”
It was classy for her to misrepresent my positions, even after being asked not to?
Of course it wasn’t, but this ain’t a classy place or I wouldn’t be here, anyway.
OK – let’s stop all the personal attacks – it doesn’t add much to the discussion and it clouds the issues (exactly what G and the others want to do).
Or buy a deal when you’re ready to buy. Why live your life in some dumpy apartment? Rent is nothing more than paying your landlord’s mortgage. My landlord lives in Winnetka. My buddy’s landlord drives a brand new Mercedes. Yet both us live in 2 bedroom apartments and our landlords live in fancy homes and drive nice cars. hmmmm…
“Dave M on July 20th, 2011 at 7:57 am
I agree on the rent till your rich advice. It gives you so much more flexibility, especially in a career that could require relocating every 3-5 years.”
Why would I want to cloud the issue over you being a verified moronic idiot when it comes to real estate, clio? The fact you are a proven liar is also helpful for others to understand your erroneous opinions.
“but this ain’t a classy place or I wouldn’t be here”
I beg to differ you are definitely part of classy, you put the “ass” in classy…
Now G don’t kill me I just couldn’t help myself : ) I have not slept much and I get silly when I don’t sleep so bear with me pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase
I think you can find a rental deal too, especially in particular areas. Especially when you would have to pay huge assessments and RE taxes in a condo highrise building in the same neighborhood. Real estate doesn’t build significant wealth unless you have great timing, or do it for more than just a passive investment. it really limits your upside.
For example, let’s say you save an additional $800 per month renting a 2 bedroom versus buying (realistic in a highrise with large assessments). If you invest this money in equities, that’s an extra $9,600 per year invested that could shave a year off your working career by allowing you to retire a year earlier in the long run.
Invest in equities! Ha! You make money on the buy, not on the sell. Buy a sweet piece of real estate, at a good deal, and live there. I know somebody who recently bought a ranch house in the city. They had 90 days to move when they found out the sheriff was trying to evict them because the landlord let the 2 flat they rented go into foreclosure. This person went looking and found a ranch with a finished basement, yard, 2 car garage and a full size lot, all for $50 more per month than they were paying for the two flat. Yes, the ranch is dated, but, so was the two-flat. These buyers made money on the buy, same as rent, more for their money. that’s what it’s about.
Liquidity is what matters for many young professionals today, and also flexibility. how do you build wealth when you are trapped in a condo and need to bring $50k to closing just top get out?
More personal attacks to cover up the lies you couldn’t keep straight, moomoo? Way to show that “balance,” hypocrite.
Well don’t buy a condo today at a price that will require you to bring $50,000 to the closing table! Buy a condo that’s a deal, a steal, maybe a foreclosure. You make money on the buy, not on the sell.
“Dave M on July 20th, 2011 at 8:21 am
Liquidity is what matters for many young professionals today, and also flexibility. how do you build wealth when you are trapped in a condo and need to bring $50k to closing just top get out?”
I guess you just have to grow your wealth to a point where you are comfortable buying. Buying a 2 flat is very different from buying a condo, due to very different risks involved. As long as your understand the structural issues of the 2 flat and could handle the mortgage on your own, it’s probably not a bad investment, with some rental income upside. However, condos are very risky because of the issues with the association and assessments.
It seems obvious clio hasn’t honored and won’t honor his bet, which as far as I can tell everyone agrees he’s lost. Why doesn’t he at least make a contribution to a charity (perhaps of G’s choice), in a meaningful to him amount (whatever that is, I dunno, $1K, $10K, more perhaps)? Anonymously if that’s what he wants, but verifiable.
“For example, let’s say you save an additional $800 per month renting a 2 bedroom versus buying (realistic in a highrise with large assessments). If you invest this money in equities, that’s an extra $9,600 per year invested that could shave a year off your working career by allowing you to retire a year earlier in the long run.”
So many things wrong with this statement:
1. who the hell can live on 9600/year? (even with interest earned)
2. retiring a year early is not all it’s cracked up to be -talk to retirees – it is all an imaginary made up fantasy story that people buy in to. Most retirees are absolutely miserable – they feel as though they have no purpose, they are in pain from their medical problems, they have expenses that are GREATER than when they were working. All that BS about traveling, etc. is just that – BS – by the time you are ready to retire, most of these people are tired and in average to poor health – it isn’t that fun traveling when you are old. You need to live NOW!
3. that 9600 won’t go very far in a few years when you decide to buy and prices are 40-50k higher (based on a 350-400k condo).
clio, you are a verified idiotic moron when it comes to these matters. There is no need for you to prove it further.
There’s a lot of people who would love to retire a year earlier. Maybe then get a part time job, or a board position to keep busy, or even work at a reduced pace for a non-profit. All you need is more liquid assets to do that. To get there, you need the discipline to save that.
“1. who the hell can live on 9600/year? (even with interest earned)”
Oh god, more retardation with numbers. 9600 invested for 45 years in a 75/25 us stock/bond portfolio will return in real dollars anywhere from 60k to 300k with an average of about 100k. (this is using historic performance figures)
So you just admitted you aren’t concerned about investing, but just blowing your money on whatever you like. No problem with that, but you shouldn’t give investment advice when you are so utterly clueless.
DZ,
that seems like a great compromise. G-String and Clio(shill) you guys agree to the new terms?
“9600 invested for 45 years”
People are really making the buy/rent decision in a fashion that allows them to save $800/month at age 19/20? In numbers significant enough to warrant discussion?
Howz ’bout a more realistic 35 or 40 year projection.
“Howz ’bout a more realistic 35”
bout 25k-150k with 61k average. Reasonable to say you can retire a year early on that except perhaps for the worst case scenario.
“bout 25k-150k with 61k average. Reasonable to say you can retire a year early on that except perhaps for the worst case scenario.”
And, of course, if you do that for 5 years, the number is a *lot* larger.
Or if you double it by living in mom and dad’s basement.
And you can invest in the short run too. I know a guy who sold his condo in November 2008, put the $50K net proceeds into the stock market in January 2009, and now he’s up like 80%. and has ~$90K. How would he have been better off staying in real estate? There’s no way he would have earned 80% in real estate over the past 3 years. He would have lost it all.
“Or if you double it by living in mom and dad’s basement.”
Well, the trick is to just set a goal and then live below your means to reach that. Unfortunately most of us do have to work a couple extra years so we don’t have to live with the parents.
“For every property like this there are properties which I can show you that sold for well over what the previous owners paid. That is the problem with cherry picking the properties which support your argument.”
I’d like to see you find that property in neighborhoods like Bronzeville, Englewood etc. We were talking about non-prime neighborhoods being down 80-90%. I know and fully agree, some properties are selling for more than they previously did (mostly due to being renovated) but that isn’t likely at all to happen in non-prime neighborhoods, not even if it has been renovated, at least not above early 2000 sales, even after being rehabbed.
Sorry DZ/groove, but the bet ‘amount’ was considered carefully, since what is money to the self-annointed richest man on CC? Besides, what place does compromise have in a clearly defined bet that is easily settled? That’s not compromise, that’s renegotiating after the fact.
“I know a guy who sold his condo in November 2008, put the $50K net proceeds into the stock market in January 2009, and now he’s up like 80%. and has ~$90K. How would he have been better off staying in real estate?”
Dave, have you not learned anything?!!! People were saying the same thing about real estate in the mid 2000s (substituting the words stock market and real estate). OK folks – this is the EXACT reason why we WILL see another bubble. The VAST majority of the population cannot think beyond the immediate future/past. In 5 years, nobody is going to remember the housing bust and the pain. Another bubble WILL be created. Dave, who, I believe is a real estate agent, is a perfect example of this type of thinking.
“that’s renegotiating after the fact.”
very true, but look at it like arguing with the wife. just take what you can get and move on *quickly 🙂
Not a good analogy, groove. I can bring it up forever and not suffer any repercussions. Heck, I can expect others to call him out, too, since it has been verified now that he is a moronic, idiotic, liar. No, not the same at all.
G – stop obsessing – seriously, dude – you may need medication (or some intense psychotherapy)
“Not a good analogy, groove.”
for me i use it as a life philosophy, i find that i have more time and am happier even if i only got .60 on the dollar.
“I can bring it up forever and not suffer any repercussions.”
LOL and more LOL 🙂
“Heck, I can expect others to call him out, too, since it has been verified now that he is a moronic, idiotic, liar. No, not the same at all.”
yeah but all that does is feed the ego. plus it gets response of you stalking him. atleast with the latter outcome some charity gets help.
clio just wants attention, skip his posts and you will be happier. though once a month or so he offers up a funny zinger. but somebody will repost/quote him so you wont miss that by not reading nonsense.
i think miumiu associated G with racist Dan’s pov and that is why he’s still salty at her.
“it gets response of you stalking him.”
Those personal attacks from clio are irrelevant and are poor attempts to cloud the issue of his verified moronic stupidity about real estate. Besides, I am amused every time he resorts to such immaturity.
clio balked on hid bet so long ago that it doesn’t even seem like a bet. If i were clio i would accept the charity idea. 100-200 even, but nice idea.
Yes, ze, and he later stated he would honor our bet when his truthiness was questioned.
“Besides, I am amused every time he resorts to such immaturity.”
he already has resorted to “stop making fun of me or i am telling” with his threats to sue. that one i almost pee’d myself laughing at.
next i do expect the full on tantrum of collapsing to the floor limp with the refusal to get up with out his Binky
“i think miumiu associated G with racist Dan’s pov and that is why he’s still salty at her.”
I never said anything of the sort, you misunderstood me. Dan claimed that he is the fair and just person after his racist rants and people calling him out. G claimed that he is doing a great job analyzing the data while he was only providing it. I meant to say they both have a warped view of themselves. I never ever thought or said G is racist. I don’t know which tread it was but you can go read it if you recall that.
Now you can say all you want about Clio, but G cannot let go either. Calling me evil, milkser a bitch (a very vulgar term BTW) does not make him a saint either. I just am more like groove and try to avoid conflict. I have tried multiple times to be pleasant or joke with G, but there is a point that one gets tired of someones obsessive continued nastiness. Unlike some of you that feel compelled to suck up to G for data, while I find his data very valuable, I feel no such obligation. Also bringing up the bet gets tiresome after a while…you know.
“Unlike some of you that feel compelled to suck up to G for data”
Slander!! Libel!! I’m calling my attorney!!!!
“I meant to say they both have a warped view of themselves.”
You mean when you misunderstood my sarcastic response to clio’s claim that “it didn’t take a genius”? You went on with repeating it to ridicule me as if I said I am a genius when everyong was laughing at your misunderstanding.
“Also bringing up the bet gets tiresome after a while…you know.”
As opposed to doodoo, shoes or your cosmopolitan superiority to all things American? At least the bet was about real estate. I will continue to bring it up repeatedly as long as clio makes claims of expertise. Tough shit if you don’t like it.
You were evil for attacking me when I suggested you may have misinterpreted my position, repeatedly. You were also a hypocrite for calling me names when you claimed such offense from the same. Milkster was being a bitch, as our exchanges after my comment illustrated clearly. I’ve never claimed to be a saint, btw. Anything else?
“I meant to say they both have a warped view of themselves.”
What you did was attempt to tar us with the same brush. Evil, indeed.
You claim yourself that I misunderstood your post so how come that makes me a liar and an evil person? Any ways, I was never trying to be mean to you or claim you are racist. I went out of my way to be nice to you because I felt bad as I am more like groove and don’t like conflict, but I stand up for what I think and I think you have been going on too long with being nasty to clio regardless of what your history with him is.
You constantly make comments about my culture and my superiority which I don’t at all feel. In fact, I don’t feel neither inferior nor superior to anyone as I don’t believe set of humans comes with an ordering.
Maybe it is a male thing that you guys bond on ganging up against someone and it seems often it is Clio, sometimes it is Bob and even Jenny at times.
As for my off topic comments, you are right and I am sorry if it bothers you, but you can skip over them. I don’t read ton of comments about bikes, eighties, Chicago street cred, etc… which I don’t understand or appreciate but so what it is part of the charm of the place. I sure hope I am not being offensive on my off topic stuff if I am then you can object.
“Unlike some of you that feel compelled to suck up to G for data”
i suck up to G-string not for his data dumps, but suck up to him because he irks you so bad and the discourse entertains me on blah days, so i dont want him to leave.
Any thing for you Groove : )
“Any thing for you Groove : )”
its all love miu
“You claim yourself that I misunderstood your post so how come that makes me a liar and an evil person? ”
You did it repeatedly after it was pointed out. You knew it and cuntinued regardless.
“Maybe it is a male thing that you guys bond on ganging up against someone and it seems often it is Clio”
clio is an asshole who dishes out much more than he gets here. You decided he was unfairly treated and put yourself in the middle from your start here. You misrepresented my positions several times while butting in, I pointed out your mistake and you cuntinued to do it and attack me. Even now you maintain that I am treating him unfairly, which is ridiculous. You can always just skip over my posts, you know?
G-string, honestly, it was fun back-and-forth banter for a little while, but now I tire of it. Let’s just stick to real estate discussions – honestly, it will help with your neuroses/psychoses and obsession with me and my life.
What do you have to offer in a real estate discussion? You are a proven idiot and liar on the subject. Be a man and honor our bet, loser.
“What do you have to offer in a real estate discussion? ”
G-string, pay attention:
1. I probably own more properties than anyone on here
2. I own my own little real estate company
3. I have bought and sold scores of properties over the past 15 years
4. I have rehabbed scores of properties over the past 15 years
Again, do your mind a favor, and just let…it…go…. Breathe deeply…. in and out. You seriously may have psychological issues that you need to address.
What do you have to offer in a real estate discussion?
mmmmmm let’s see
1. Data Points are meaningless
2. Everyone one on CC is either an idiot or moron
3. Data Points are meaningless
4. Forget about economic fundamentals, its all about psychology
5. Case Shiller Index is followed by morons or idiots
valasko:
You forgot that “most” are poor renters under 40 who will *never* own a nice condo or house.
valasko, i seem to remember you getting a chubby when you saw me drive by you in my lambo!!! So at least I have that to offer!!!
no, no, you guys are missing the true genius of clio’s insight:
1) individual property sales mean nothing because they are simply the result of “cherry-picking”; however, aggregate data (like a sales price index) is also meaningless because it doesn’t capture the variations of individual properties.
2) this is very much in line with clio’s ingenious economic theory, which holds that home buyers do not base decisions on prices, but home sellers do.
3) as you can see, this means home prices always go up, because sellers set the market, and they want higher prices. if you believe this theory is not well-supported by the evidence, simply refer back to point #1.
“no, no, you guys are missing the true genius of clio’s insight:”
Put another way:
1. Take everything clio posts as gospel.
2. ???
3. Profit!!
now you’re getting it, anon. i knew you morons would come around sooner or later
“valasko, i seem to remember you getting a chubby when you saw me drive by you in my lambo!!!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQNdi-fRExc
C, is this you……… boonnnnnggggg you did it again!
“now you’re getting it, anon. i knew you morons would come around sooner or later”
I will now picture you as Cartman, until proven otherwise. Fat ass.
Casa bonita! Casa bonita!
see, Sabrina, I can always pull it back on-topic
“Casa bonita! Casa bonita!
see, Sabrina, I can always pull it back on-topic”
Dude, this is a *Chicago* *real estate* blog, not a Denver restaurant review site.
Right. For all my spanish speakers, we’re right back in the groove.
Returning to the property at hand, it’s neither a casa nor bonita. Doesn’t seem demasiado caro. 190 with parking.
and clio you are a retard
why not just buy 200k of intel stock and call it a day if 4% is a “good” ROI to you
you will be a hell of a lot richer and won’t have to do shit but watch your bank account grow and not having to deal with deadbeats and checks clearing is priceless
“why not just buy 200k of intel stock and call it a day if 4% is a “good” ROI to you”
Because you can’t buy $200k of Intel stock for $40k? And you can’t claim depreciation on your intel stock?
All cash real estate investing–unless it’s in “troubled” assets, with more upside–isn’t really a particularly good idea in most circumstances.
clio said he was buying with “all cash” that’s why i called him a retard, you are comparing apples and pomegranates
nice tom vu link valasko! iirc tom wasnt shy about calling people names
“and clio you are a retard”
Madeline, madeline – where are you?!!!!
“What do you have to offer in a real estate discussion? ”
It is a free country and Sabrina is the owner of the blog so as long as she does not mind it, everyone is entitled to post their views. Readers can decide for themselves if they actually find value in someone’s posts or not.
Also Clio’s counter points often provides the fuel for discussion and makes things interesting. At least he has the devil’s advocate viewpoint to say the least.
Now as far as butting in, this is not Syria dude, I can make my own judgement and post. Sorry if it bothers your sensitivities. Not everyone has to agree with you all the time. For the record you started the whole thing by accusing me of being the same person as Clio just because I agreed with some of his points. In fact, I have disagreed with him more than I have been of the same opinion.
Sonies, can you quit using retard? Two different comments on two posts in one day, not cool….
“clio said he was buying with “all cash” that’s why i called him a retard, you are comparing apples and pomegranates”
There’s a simple explanation for why clio uses the all cash calculation ….
duh – anon. it doesnt make sense if you have to take out a mortgage.
i could just imagine a visit to Clio.
‘i have headaches’
‘duh, if course you do, you have severe cerebral hemorrhaging and are going to die.’
ze – huh? I don’t see what is wrong with saying something like that – especially if it is the truth
ze:
I know you got my drift, but the response was better than I imagined.
oh right I forgot the PC police made the R word offensive… for all those special people reading this blog, sorry I didn’t mean to offend you by lumping you with clio… he’s way dumber with his money than you probably are
“why not just buy 200k of intel stock and call it a day if 4% is a “good” ROI to you
you will be a hell of a lot richer and won’t have to do shit but watch your bank account grow and not having to deal with deadbeats and checks clearing is priceless”
In clio’s world he never rents out to deadbeats and his appliances and units never need any maintenance or repairs.
Hey, did anyone here make any money off of the zillow IPO? (check out the stock – “Z”)
haha you couldn’t pay me to invest your money in zillow clio… what a piece of crap
“For the record you started the whole thing by accusing me of being the same person as Clio just because I agreed with some of his points.”
For the record, I never accused you of being the same person. I have to assume you knowingly made this false statement. Sorry if it bothers your sensitivities. Not everyone has to agree with you all the time.
Rent till you’re rich, and laugh it up. Don’t follow the lemmings who keep buying and crying!
When you’re not burdened with “ownership” every time the latest CS numbers come out it’s like a great episode on Comedy Central. Remember the vast majority of “owners” don’t actually OWN anything. What they own and often cannot get rid of is an obligation to pay a fixed or increasing amount for a depreciating asset.