Hate Cookie Cutter? This 3-Bedroom Converted Storefront Is For You: 3100 N. Leavitt in North Center
This 3-bedroom home at 3100 N. Leavitt in North Center doesn’t look like most of the other properties out there.
(Sorry about the yucky picture but it was pouring rain that day. I’ll try to do better next time.)
Built in 1908, the building is apparently a former bakery.
All of the living space is on the first level with a second floor rooftop deck.
It has unique features such as a mosaic glass wall in the living room and a barrel ceiling in the hallway.
The property has exposed brick and timber ceilings.
The kitchen has white cabinets, granite counter tops and stainless steel appliances.
Built on a 21×125 corner lot, it also has 1-car parking and central air.
Recently reduced $25,100, it is listed just $4,900 over the 2005 purchase price.
What will this anti-cookie cutter property ultimately sell for?
Ken Jungwirth at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
3100 N. Leavitt: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 1 car parking
- Sold in June 1999 for $340,000
- Sold in June 2005 for $720,000
- Originally listed in April 2011 for $750,000
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $724,900
- Taxes of $9395
- Central Air
- Bedroom #1: 14×13
- Bedroom #2: 12×9
- Bedroom #3: 12×9
- Roof top deck: 21×19
I like it. It looks as though it has a roof deck and it looks more secure than the typical SF house. It’s very attractive and unusual and feels very private, in spite of fronting right on the sidewalk.
But $724K? I don’t think so. This place is too non-standard and not quite that large. I know nothing one way or the other about the local schools, but they might be an issue.
$600K.
100% bad azz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
a bit disappointing at the small roof deck. the deck should span the whole structure.
also dont know how you guys would view the fire house next to you?
This one is complement of 310 S. Michigan, terrible looking exterior and quite an interesting interior. Exterior looks like a Firestone tire place.
Agree, the outside is awful but the inside is really nice…open, unique, brick, and decent light. This could be a fun place for a young family who wants casual living (formal dining rooms are useless for this stage of life). The size doesn’t seem to be a big issue b/c there appears to be little wasted space.
Love this place.
“the deck should span the whole structure.”
Note the skylights in the living room. Can’t have both.
interesting space, but kind of in the middle of nowhere.No. I cant see it going for this much being this unique and no good PTrans nearby
It’s pretty cool. i bet it goes for just under 700k.
Awesome. I’ve been plagued with curiosity about what this looked like on the inside for over a decade!
Cool place! I like that part of town too, but very car dependant.
who knows what this will sell for but it is really interesting on the inside although a bit narrow and with no yard (but a super cool rooftop deck!), some might be turned off by the schools too right?
I would love this place, totally perfect, except the whole 300k out of my price range at the moment LOL
I love it and regarding public trans: walk to belmont avenue and take a bus east to the red line or west to the blue line!
we’ve discussed before on this blog how much transfers suck for commuting. I could make it work if this was my home though 🙂
I’ve seen skylight surrounds turned into very interesting bench/planters on some rooftops…
“Note the skylights in the living room. Can’t have both.”
What a neat property, and it’s not a terrible location. Somewhere around $650k probably makes sense for this one.
not to beat a dead horse but is the lanthrop/cosco/hamlin sub-hood really part of north center?
“some might be turned off by the schools too right?”
Jahn (or Schneider, but Schneider’s being closed and the building becoming entirely Alcott HS).
“I’ve seen skylight surrounds turned into very interesting bench/planters on some rooftops”
Just harshing Groove. Tho I’d rather deal with a smaller roof deck and keep the angles of light into the skylight more open.
“kind of in the middle of nowhere”
Just a matter of perspective, but transit is notgreat.
“the fire house next to you”
I haven’t lived right there, so deer lick, but do pass by often and think I’ve *once* heard the sirens rolling from that house in over a decade.
I like this place but it’s not going to sell in the $700’s, and maybe not even in the $600’s. That’s too rich a price for this market. No way a converted bakery sells for only slightly off the 2005 price. I think the high $500’s will do it with a large down payment.
I read this sight every day but very rarely comment. i looooove this place. I never thought I would find a 3 bed/2 bath place that I liked (I am more of a huge open loft person) but this is nice. unfortunately I am with Sonies- 300k out of my range.
“not to beat a dead horse but is the lanthrop/cosco/hamlin sub-hood really part of north center?”
Based on Community Area, there is no room for doubt. Mostly would get tagged as “Roscoe Village” by ‘hood expanders.
“not to beat a dead horse but is the lanthrop/cosco/hamlin sub-hood really part of north center?”
Curious about what wikipedia had to say on it (there’s a distinction made re community area v neighborhood for nortcenter, although there’s apparently no logan square neighborhood per wikipedia).
But more importantly, especially knowing the fondness many of you have for Webster, who put in the cribchatter citation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_(TV_series)
im going to guess.. craig patterson did
“But more importantly, especially knowing the fondness many of you have for Webster, who put in the cribchatter citation?”
Someone whose only other Wiki edits relate to The Bay department store and a Canadian politician.
Nearly three-quarters of a million dollars to take a bus to get to the train. No powder room. No views and, while the glass wall is quite awesome, no real window exposure in the main living room. Next door to a firehouse. And while most people spending in excess of $700k to live on the northwest side of the city do so for family reasons, this place doesn’t appear to be an elementary education slam dunk. $650k max.
Just a drop dead gorgeous conversion. I really enjoy how they left the front portion of the house wide open yet for the private spaces/family spaces they subdivided the area like a typical SFH. I agree that it shouldn’t sell for over 700K… but due to the emotional appeal and quality of the conversion I can see it going for 650K.
Video of inside.
http://www.chicagomag.com/Radar/Deal-Estate/June-2011/Roscoe-Villages-Splendor-in-the-Glass/
“im going to guess.. craig patterson did”
“Someone whose only other Wiki edits relate to The Bay department store and a Canadian politician.”
Well, the timing of the cribchatter post and wiki edit is more than a little coincidental. And “craig patterson” had no other cribchatter posts I can find. But the cribchatter page had no prior reference to webster. I suppose this canadian (IP is canadian as well) fan of webster, the bay, and jamie lee hamilton had some info on the address, searched for references, found the discussion and added his own reference.
“most people spending in excess of $700k to live on the northwest side”
This isn’t the northwest side. Calling it such identifies you as an outsider.
East of the River, East of Western = unassailably North Side.
Outside of what?
And it’s two blocks from Western, three from the river. I’d say that’s at least within the realm of the assailable.
This is definitely not the NW side, agreed.
On this, Logan Square seems to transcend the neighborhoods-within-community-areas debate as with the exception of Palmer Square, it’s just all considered Logan Sq.
North Center is a funny one as it was once upon a time a neighborhood moniker as well as a community area, but my guess is that as Chicago expanded it lost its geographical relevance (what is it the center of, the North Side? not really) and all those sub-neighborhoods popped up.
I was shocked the day I learned Ravenswood wasn’t an “official” area the way North Center is.
That all said, Hamlin Park is clearly the driver for this area, once upon a time they may have called this Riverview after the amusement park.
“Curious about what wikipedia had to say on it (there’s a distinction made re community area v neighborhood for nortcenter, although there’s apparently no logan square neighborhood per wikipedia).”
It’s also only two blocks from the projects, but you won’t hear anyone referring to this house as in the Lathrop Homes.
“And it’s two blocks from Western, three from the river. I’d say that’s at least within the realm of the assailable.”
“And it’s two blocks from Western, three from the river. I’d say that’s at least within the realm of the assailable.”
No, it’s not. You’re not more than 3 blocks from [someplace less desirable than you think you live], so does that mean I have a decent argument that you live in [less desirable location]? Is there a decent argument that 65th & 5th is on the UWS because there’s only three blocks (thru the park, even!) b/t the two?
And outside of Chicago. Not a local. And yeah I get that you basically take price in that.
Interesting looking home, but it seems overpriced.
“you won’t hear anyone referring to this house as in the Lathrop Homes.”
Except me. As a joke.
O.k., o.k.: it’s to the northwest side of me. Solipsistic orienteering; guilty as charged.
Does anyone know anything about how possible it would be to put a true extra room on the roof (as opposed to the “loft” area shown in the virtual tour)? Obviously there could be conflicts with the deck and skylights, but legally and structurally is it possible?
I love this place, but it has a cramped feel to it — it’s almost ship-like. The (apparent) lack of basement (except the laundry space and small storage area that have evidently been somewhat dug out) exacerbates the feeling. Still, it’s pretty amazing.
Nevermind what I said about the basement — streetview shows that it probably is a real basement toward the back of the building, under the kitchen area. Still, it looks like it’s just crawlspace for everything to the east of the side door.
I really like the look of the place and the conversion in general. Are there any blogs on converting industrial/nonresidential space to homes? I would never live in North Center so I can’t comment on the price–but I would love to take something on say–Grand Avenue and convert it one day!
we were always amazed that nobody ever broke the windows!
“On this, Logan Square seems to transcend the neighborhoods-within-community-areas debate as with the exception of Palmer Square, it’s just all considered Logan Sq.”
No bucktown neighborhood? Jon and groove are both going to be really upset.
I dunno, people I know who live within say a couple of blocks of the blvd will almost uniformly say they live in logan sq, as will people in bucktown and (for the most part) palmer sq. While people who live west of bucktown will say that (or “wesbucktown”). Similarly for people who are close to but not in palmer sq. Seems to me in common usage logan sq has some narrower meaning than the community area, whether that rises to the level of a “neighborhood” I do not know.
“I’d say that’s at least within the realm of the assailable.”
And that’s why lawyers’ fundamental contributions to civilization itself are never fully appreciated.
This is the NW side to someone who never travels west of Halsted.
I actually do travel west of Halsted. That’s where the Super Whole Foods and one of the airports are located.
calyx, it’s zoned RS3, which has a maximum floor area ratio of 0.90:1. This place already appears to cover the entire parcel, so no full 2nd floor. However, you might be able to remove the garage area from the calculation and build the equivalent space on the 2nd floor, IIRC.
Nice job on the conversion. I value creativity and uniqueness, and find this very attractive. I love the little details like the barrel ceiling in the hallway–indications that real thought was put into the design. Having said that, the firehouse is an incurable defect.
“one of the airports [is west of Halsted]”
Another wormhole?
I found a place like this for sale in Bucktown and the first floor is a funeral home and then on top is the apartment. If someone were interested, they could not renew the lease of the funeral people and you could do an amazing conversion. As long as the building history didn’t freak you out!
BettyBoop: yes, the Gogolinski place (Wood & Cortland) has *a lot* of potential for an intrepid renovator — great windows, great ceilings, side entrance with center staircase. It looks like it’s not currently listed, but I suspect they owners (who run the funeral home) would be happy to sell given the right price.
“As long as the building history didn’t freak you out!”
Well, Lil’ Ze, your bedroom used to be the embalming room before we converted it”
Does CC have a resident child psychiatrist here?
The firehouse doesn’t bother me too much…it adds a sense of security as there is always someone awake all hours of the day and night. They usually don’t turn on the sirens until they are off the block. The biggest noise would be the backup beeps re-parking it after a run.
And this place was a bakery and then a candy store.
Calyx, no the Gogo place was listed very recently. I actually saw the listing and went and looked at the building (just drove by). I THINK it was listed in the high 7’s. Included a couple of coffins! 🙂
Betty: I wonder about the basement!
BettyBoop, I love your moniker. It cracks me up each time you post : )
“As long as the building history didn’t freak you out!”
I have no problem even if it were a funeral home. What does it matter any ways? I don’t believe in any super natural bs so if it is nice, I’ll take it.
Really love this place. It might take a little bit, but my guess is they find a buyer at about 675.
So miu.. you name your kid doo doo and now want to make him watch ‘Stir of Echoes’ and tell him he lives in a spraypaint dead people place. Hey and just down the block from the Gacys.. you like clowns doo doo?
You should see if they accept returns before you damage this kid.
BettyBoop: I must have missed it when I just checked — I think it’s been on and off the market a fews times in the past year or so. Take a tour — it’s pretty great inside (and even some nice vintage details in the upstairs, as I recall).
Wow-I wonder who the architect was. This conversion is so detailed and thoughtful.
I love all of the built-in shelving. Wonder why the windows in the kitchen are so deep?
Calyx: It was listed fairly recently without an address (just “Bucktown location”) but I knew what it was from the photo because I used to live that way. So you can’t do a search by address–you have to more or less stumble on to it.
ze, I was reading an article last night on how supposedly perfect parents screw up their kids as kids need to learn about failure early on so Deux Deux is going to be brought up old school. He has to study hard, cannot eat sweets and junk, has to clean his room, won’t get any fancy clothes until he is earning money himself and he better be a straight A student as both his daddy and I were. Oh and he needs to learn a few foreign languages and deal with the ghosts in the former funeral home ; )
“I love it and regarding public trans: walk to belmont avenue and take a bus east to the red line or west to the blue line!”
LOL sorry the beatniks at Beat Kitchen and Kuma’s corner don’t quite have 725k to spend. This place is a joke at 725k. 525k.
In any case Robert Shiller is calling for another steep decline in RE prices. This owner is going to learn that being a block from a liquor store and bar in a good neighborhood isn’t enough of an amenity to justify anywhere near three quarters of a million dollars.
BTW, so far he does not look too intelligent. When hungry he tries to go for his daddy’s boobs. Seems he does not understand who the mucca is : )
“BTW, so far he does not look too intelligent. When hungry he tries to go for his daddy’s boobs. Seems he does not understand who the mucca is : )”
LOL sounds like he’ll be a leftist just like his parents. Leftists don’t believe in any differences between the genders.
“BTW, so far he does not look too intelligent. When hungry he tries to go for his daddy’s boobs. Seems he does not understand who the mucca is : )”
“LOL sounds like he’ll be a leftist just like his parents. Leftists don’t believe in any differences between the genders.”
I think it’s more that he’s a visionary, he sees the world as it should be, not as it is (c’mon, surely mr. miumiu is up for this):
http://www.slate.com/id/2295405/pagenum/all/#p2
” Leftists don’t believe in any differences between the genders.”
No, that’s English speakers. Your typical Euro-leftist certainly understands the difference between genders, but also believes in equality between the sexes.
exactly anon and DZ that link rocked if only i could convince my husband to try!
not a chance in hell. italians are not exactly open minded on gender issues : )
and Bob my husband voted for Berlu last he voted (not recently) even though he is embarrassed of it now : )
I lived at Damen and Armitage for a year and the sirens from the firehouse on Damen made me grind my teeth to nubs. I’ll admit that I’m pretty sensitive to noise generally — but then again my current place overlooks the UP North Metra tracks and I don’t even hear the trains anymore.
Holy Crap – I thought everyone on here would HATE this house (as I do) – but it seems once again, I am living in “opposite land”.
Seriously – this is one of the most hideous and non-functional places around:
1. You can’t look out your living room window – (yet people could see “shadows” moving inside) – that would drive me nuts
2. I don’t condone destruction or vandalism – but even I feel like breaking those living room windows.
3. The floorplan is completely idiotic.
I….just….can’t….imagine what people find nice about this place.
whoops, my bad, for some reason I thought bucktown was actually a community area. that said, Bucktown has “grown” (at least branding-wise) far more than is reasonable. In the 80s it didn’t even exist for most of us in Logan Sq., whereas Palmer Sq definitely had its own identity. Of course, Palmer Sq is a park.
“No bucktown neighborhood?”
“He has to study hard, cannot eat sweets and junk, has to clean his room, won’t get any fancy clothes until he is earning money himself and he better be a straight A student as both his daddy and I were. Oh and he needs to learn a few foreign languages and deal with the ghosts in the former funeral home ; )”
miumiu, I’m going to check back with you in 8 years to see how this plan is going, k? ; )
Like most, I like this conversion but find it overpriced. However, I cannot get over that fireplace. It is odd and looks like something phallic! I could NOT have that in my living room.
Also, miumiu, congrats! You must have had the baby while I was busy with the end of the year. 🙂
Thanks ben. Michelle believe me I have many flaws but I am quite tough on my education standards, if baby Deux Deux is not studying, I won’t pay for his education, he can go acquire other skills, become a mechanic, sailor, etc …
I’d rather use the money to help some talented smart kid who works hard.
“if baby Deux Deux is not studying, I won’t pay for his education”
Ze and I would have been SOL with miumiu for a mom.
“if baby Deux Deux is not studying, I won’t pay for his education
Ze and I would have been SOL with miumiu for a mom.”
The trick is to make it appear that you are studying when you aren’t, although I learned that later in my educational career…
lol…i did that too. I was not allowed to read novels during school year so I always was reading one under my text books and when my mom would come in I would hide it. But I had straight As.
Anon, you and Ze are pretty smart and you specially are one of the few people who can hold a logical conversational here so I am sue your mummy was proud of you : )
sure, typing with one hand with Duex Deux on the other!
Interesting conversion. Though I loathe modern, I kind of dig it. But it just seems impractical without a floorplan.
The constructed coat closet in the LR is lol, as is that fireplace to me. I also think the designations of “Family / Dining ROOMS” overly generous. Brickwork and such is cool, and the rooftop is a nice substitute for greenspace. Master Bdr right off the LR only closed off with a French Door (although a kickass one) is a bit ehh.
That’s a whooooole lotta “unique” features to absorb at this ask price for a one-level, dual-curbside, at the property line SFH with some pretty small common area spaces.
But I will say it’s probably one of the only “modern” places on this site that I wasn’t horrified with immediately. Good job, random house!
Miu..is this your first? You are sounding very…idealistic.
yes it is Jason so sorry if I sound stupid to you guys who have more experience, but I don’t feel like spoiling my child to no limit. I think some humiliation and failure actually builds character. I don’t subscribe to American notion of parenting that their child is a perfect genius and everyone else, teachers, other kids, … are always at fault. Hope I won’t change, but that is how I was brought up as my husband was so this school of parenting is not dead yet : )
No worries, best of luck to you…check in later and tell us how it goes. I read something that basically says you can’t screw up kids so don’t worry so much and concentrate on making sure you remain a normal individual and this will be better for your kid than any tiger mom/dad we might aspire to be.
“The trick is to make it appear that you are studying when you aren’t, although I learned that later in my educational career…”
Or to have parents that are too embarrassed to pull their kid from school and have to tell their friends their kid is a dropout. In college a C+ or an A never seemed like different grades to me.
” I am sue your mummy was proud of you : )”
ROFLMAO… She thinks I live in a hut in the jungle and still wants me to attend Med School. and oh why couldn’t I just be more like that nice Zuckerberg boy.
That glass-brick wall is cool. But how do you stop the ‘bangers from taking a hammer or brick to it every few weeks? Just from the pictures you can tell it’s practically an invitation to vandalism.
“But how do you stop the ‘bangers from taking a hammer or brick to it every few weeks?”
There are a lot of things wrong with this property. Location isn’t one of them. Have you ever walked this ‘hood?
Bangers are lazy and stupid, they don’t veer of the beaten path if it isn’t close to easy rail transit, in any case.
There are no bangers in this part of town. No pookies with outsized stereos driving around to wake people up at 2am on weeknights.
Basically, Bradley, this is whitbreadville. And far enough away from the redline so those from outside the green zone don’t venture–there really isn’t anything here for them.
And let’s be honest: even if one of Pookie’s best friends in criminality does have an Escalade (unlikely), those spinning rims are going to attract attention here, whether parked at 3pm or 3am.
Had this been nearer the Belmont stop like so many properties featured here, surely. But this part of town doesn’t attract the ghetto or drunk suburban element.
Funny story in contrasts: the same owner/family of the liquor store at Belmont & Sheffield also owns the much larger one at Belmont & Leavitt. Guess what store is constantly getting their windows smashed? Of course they probably make most of their loot from the much higher volume liquor store on Sheffield, too, so probably a good tradeoff.
“the same owner/family of the liquor store at Belmont & Sheffield also owns the much larger one at Belmont & Leavitt.”
How long was Miskas on Leavitt closed? 5 years? Just reopened several weeks ago.
“How long was Miskas on Leavitt closed? 5 years?”
Three.
moo moo,
every ideal i had about raising kids when she was pregnant has either been thrown out or modified heavily. from no tv, to no fake sugar, to bed time is at 8pm no matter what, to dont drop them.
let me emphasize *ALL have been either thrown out or heavily modified
just go with the flow have fun, smile, laugh, hug, enjoy, and all the rest of the pieces will fall where they may.
“no fake sugar”
We really avoid buying stuff with fake sugar for home, but it all goes out the window when traveling. Just not worth the hassle with healthy kids.
“Three.”
Really felt like longer, but I know you know your dumpy liquor stores.
BTW Anon we consider high fructose “fake sugar”.
that shyte is crazy hard to avoid its in everything!
“BTW Anon we consider high fructose “fake sugar”.
that shyte is crazy hard to avoid its in everything!”
Not as hard as you might think, you just need to go to different grocery stores. We get tons of non-CS (incl. HFCS) stuff at Costco. Hit the email with the items you have trouble finding w/o HFCS and I probably have an alternative.
724.9K?! Ripoff! Looks like ass. Next!
i am sure you are right groove but people also said to me you cannot give birth without pain medication and made fun of me. i screamed for 24 hours and kicked the anesthetists who were coming back like Jehovah’s witnesses trying to convert you out and all went well.
as for food, it has been too short of a time, but i am still cooking and we eat as before. as for sugar thing, i am with you. it is every where man and damn hard to avoid.
Just a warning that you can also find that you parented “too well”: If you teach your young child to think logically and strategically, evaluate statements of fact v. opinions, weigh risk v. benefits of actions, etc., they will take all those skills and use them against you rather effectively in debates once they hit age 11 or 12. BTDT.
lol tell me about it. I once wrote a essay calling comparing my mom to Pinochet when I were a teenager. My dad of course has kept it and loves it : )
oops “I was”
miumiu – what a weird comparison – did she have a long nose or something?
“they will take all those skills and use them against you rather effectively in debates once they hit age 11 or 12”
Sheesh, should be so lucky for it to wait til 11 or 12.
“miumiu – what a weird comparison – did she have a long nose or something?”
LOL – I thought of the same thing! Had to wiki to refresh my memory about him. I could only remember “dictator” and pretty much nothing else. There have been so many.
no but I felt she was acting like a dictator and I was in my phase of being into South American politics and literature.
“i screamed for 24 hours… and all went well.”
Sounds like you showed them!!
I have no kids, Groove is, from what I have witnessed, 100% correct though. My Chinese friends parents did exactly like you, 1600 SAT- Wharton. He is now often seen on Saturday nights all coked and ex’d up wearing a diaper.
I had a poster of Che between those of Aha and Depeche Mode on my wall and my mom told me I look so shallow having them together and that Che even though idealized was a fanatic person too and told me to look at Cuba and the communist block. I knew she was right of course but didn’t want to admit it. She gave me “le deuxieme sexe” and told me to read that if I want to play activist…lol
“Not as hard as you might think, you just need to go to different grocery stores. We get tons of non-CS (incl. HFCS) stuff at Costco. Hit the email with the items you have trouble finding w/o HFCS and I probably have an alternative”
agreed its not super hard, my wording is more for dramatic effect, as always.
but even with the HFCS out of the picture the amount of sugar added is at insane levels even for me a grown man with 2 hobbit legs.
one major thing is if short on time or a fussy kid and grocery shopping with out a plan is a sure way to end up with all HFCS groceries.
the actual hard trick my wife has been telling me is that its hard to find products at low prices that are not high fructose. she says it seems there is a ELP premium attached to thing with real sugar.
If WholePaycheck Foods continues to become more reasonable we may do 70-80% of the shopping there and call it a day.
It is interesting how everyone has an Asian friend whose tough parents drove him nuts but they seem to miss the majority of other kids with very smart successful parents who become losers too. There are also many examples oaf very successful Asian parents.
Is HFCS really worse for you (or kids) than regular sugar? My wife is adamantly opposed to HFCS to the point where it’s not worth my investigating (and I don’t have any reason to believe it’s better). Just wondering if there is any hard science behind it.
I am fully on board with having less processed foods etc.
“Just wondering if there is any hard science behind it. ”
No hard science either way. Both sides rely on their slanted studies. More reasonable basis, in my non-exhaustive review, to believe there is something “worse” about it, but inconclusive. So, why risk it, if one can afford the extra expense?
Of course, relying on the argument that “real” sugar is “natural” is pretty bogus, too.
“the majority of other kids with very smart successful parents who become losers too”
More of them start on the loser path in HS, before getting the 1600 SAT and admission to [school parents can brag about].
“If WholePaycheck Foods continues to become more reasonable we may do 70-80% of the shopping there and call it a day.”
Groovy, check the cooler by the butcher that’s stocked with the family packs of meat. You can get steaks, pork chops, lamb chops for like $5.99/lb and it’s just as good as the stuff you buy at the counter for $26.99/lb.
“the cooler by the butcher that’s stocked with the family packs of meat. You can get steaks, pork chops, lamb chops for like $5.99/lb and it’s just as good as the stuff you buy at the counter for $26.99/lb”
I wouldn’t go that far … depends on how you’re preparing it.
“Is HFCS really worse for you (or kids) than regular sugar? My wife is adamantly opposed to HFCS to the point where it’s not worth my investigating (and I don’t have any reason to believe it’s better). Just wondering if there is any hard science behind it.
I am fully on board with having less processed foods etc.”
i have been on the fence about it too i dont know the chemical make up of it or how the body processes it it might be ok in moderation like process foods in moderation no damage will be done. its the *moderation part that gets lost.
its easier to error on the side of caution than wait for an unbiased study to be released.
and really it doesnt matter if its Sugar or HFCS as they put WAY TOO MUCH OF BOTH IN EVERYTHING.
Ketchup my kids favorite thing has way to much HCFS in Heinz and way to much real sugar in Huntz and even the whole foods brand we bought (365 something) was at a ridiculous level. so we gave up and just stock Heinz as it tastes the best.
(open to suggestions on good tasting ketchup alternatives low in sugar content)
“I wouldn’t go that far … depends on how you’re preparing it.”
I’m an excellent cook, Anon!
“I’m an excellent cook, Anon!”
Point was, if you’re just throwing the steak on the charcoal, the more expensive cuts are *often* worth the difference.
miu.. I guess i’m giving the kids in europe drinking wine with dinner and not being nearly as abusive with alcohol as an american college student argument.
My wife never understood kids in america being forced to act like little adults, let em be kids, it will never again be so much fun, let em have it. My bet is doo doo turns out fine without mommys expectaitions, my parents pressure alienated me so badly, they don’t even know what i do for a living and were/are not allowed to see my home. Very sad, but i couldnt move forward with them watching.
HFCS is highly processed to increase the fructose content for a more intense and concentrated sweetness. It’s also a carb.
Cane sugar is a natural substance. It should also be taken in limited amounts, but it is better for you.
BTW, thanks to the CCer who told me to make sure I read the labels at Aldi. I threw out a box of “healthy” granola bars because the first ingredient was HFCS! I also never buy their lunch meat or yogurt, and I rinse any canned vegetables well to get rid of the salt. But for fresh or frozen vegs, fresh fruit, frozen chicken breasts, etc., they are pretty darn good.
“Groovy, check the cooler by the butcher that’s stocked with the family packs of meat. You can get steaks, pork chops, lamb chops for like $5.99/lb and it’s just as good as the stuff you buy at the counter for $26.99/lb.”
cool tip milky,
when it comes to red meat, steriods and fillers be damned i go to a *real butcher, the value taste and freshness cannont be beat.
when it comes to chicken its whole foods only.
fish i drive over to addison just past harlem for a fish house places freshness is only a ten minute drive away.
Pork is a toss up as i am not a fan of it anyway.
“Point was, if you’re just throwing the steak on the charcoal, the more expensive cuts are *often* worth the difference.”
Not if you’re argentinian. Bought v nice steaks once when argentinian friend came over. He volunteered to cook, which appeared to mostly consist of cutting the steaks open on the grill, pouring massive amounts of salt on, and then cooking some more until obliterated. The mate was good though.
Milkster – there is basically no empirical support for your statement that cane sugar is better for you than HFCS. All there basically is a hand-wavey “natural” vs “processed” argument.
Widespread news publication reporting on the issue has been terrible, so your confusion is understandable.
Sucrose (cane sugar) is a disaccharide of gluctose and fructose – sucrose is basically immediately broken down into glucose and fructose in digestion. The HFCS (in food) is either 55% fructose or 42% fructose depending on variety, with most of the rest being sucrose. Your body sees it the same as sugar, unless you think the small variation is fructose content is minimal.
If you think HFCS is bad, I hope you don’t feed your kids apples or pears, because they are (*gasp*!) like 2/3 fructose.
Good point Ze. Seems you have found your way though and rebelled quite a bit too, marrying a roman catholic ; )
“If you think HFCS is bad, I hope you don’t feed your kids apples or pears, because they are (*gasp*!) like 2/3 fructose.”
LOL, thanks, Nat.
I don’t have kids, but I always joke that I could have been my boyfriend The Wolfman’s babysitter growing up cuz he’s 6 years younger 🙂
Ze, I can totally relate. It’s like you know intellectually that you just have to follow your heart, live your life and do what makes you happy, but there’s always a little part of you that hurts and yearns for their approval. And for them not to be so psycho!
Eek:
“The HFCS (in food) is either 55% fructose or 42% fructose depending on variety, with most of the rest being sucrose.”
Should have been:
“The HFCS (in food) is either 55% fructose or 42% fructose depending on variety, with most of the rest being GLUCOSE.”
The problem isn’t the form of the sugar but the amount of sugar. A guy at work calls juice boxes ‘poison packets’ because of the amount of sugar in them. Its a recipe for obesity and diabetes.
exactly HD. Also often eating one orange is satisfying given all the fiber content which incidentally is great for digestive system, but if you have a glass of orange juice, it is what 3-4 of them? I don’t remember the last time I drank a juice. Fruits are such better choice.
Agreed on the juice. We don’t prohibit juice entirely but certainly don’t permit it on anything other than a very infrequent basis. I don’t really understand (otherwise fairly regular seeming) parents who routinely give their kids juice boxes, natural or otherwise.
“but if you have a glass of orange juice, it is what 3-4 of them?”
man can create fake sugar but creating a toothpaste that doenst make OJ taste like burnt rubber they cant do? we need better priorities in this world.
by the way i am powered by orange juice, i drink about 3-5 classed of that a day! its like crack to me.
well ok Coke is crack to me and OJ is like a cig.
i cant shake the coke thing for the life of me i drink one mini can (8oz) a day and if i do a 12oz can i try to skip the next day but i just crave those bubbly bastardz. i think a can of coke has like 40grams of sugar
Homedelete – agree completely. The problem is sugar consumption, not HFCS vs cane sugar consumption.
It’s a little insane that I won’t let my kids eat processed food but I can’t go a day without a glass of diet coke.
We give a little juice heavily watered down but it has to be real juice, not ‘juice drink’. Both my kids love plain water anyway thank goodness. One of my friends gives her kid this bizarre concoction of chocolate flavored Boost, Sunny D and some fiber drink every day in order to ‘get him his vitamins and nutrients’. Hmm.
Also Miu can you comment on the kids drinking wine thing? I’ve personally never seen it and none of my friends back home say they’ve seen it. But it always gets brought up.
“It’s a little insane that I won’t let my kids eat processed food but I can’t go a day without a glass of diet coke.”
its about moderation not abstinence little groove will get his junk food on once a week if daddy is in a rush and lazy. nothing like mcdonalds nuggies and apple dippers with chocolate milk to sooth a fussy kid when dragged around running errands or other places.
its not like its every day or every week.
soda is disgusting, I have maybe 1 a year
we have some of the best water in the world right here in chicago and you’re poisoning yourself with that garbage?
yuck!
I had a little wine sip as a kid and thought it tastes like hell so was not sure why adults were drinking it. Kids don’y like coffee or alcoholic beverages so it is obviously a joke : )
ok – let’s stop this idiotic discussion. I am a doctor and I can tell you that genetics and bad luck probably account for 90% of all illnesses. All these idiotic stories about how this and that is bad for you are so stupid and moronic. True, if your genetic predisposition is for heart disease, you shouldn’t smoke, etc. – but people get way too carried away with this over-analysis. Seriously, folks – live your lives be cautious about certain things, but don’t worry about such nonsense. Your worrying about this shit is going to make you more sick (in the head) that this stuff itself.
I have not had soda since i was in my early twenties. it is disgusting to me too but i can see it being ok in moderation and the water in chicago is terrible and might cause cancer. we order ours from michigan.
don’t know Clio. all the obese people i know are always drinking sodas from buckets. i have to yet see a really heavy person who drinks just water.
miumiu – while I agree you have to have some common sense, ordering your water from michigan is absolutely crazy. Don’t be too obsessive – seriously that is the last thing little doodoo needs – he will be in therapy for the rest of his life!!!
What is in Chicago water that you think causes cancer? Meanwhile, you probably have massive (relative to Chicago tap water) bacterial infestations in the water shipped from Michigan.
miu.. You’re a europhile, think strollers with infants outside after dark. Go buck wild!!
” the water in chicago is terrible and might cause cancer. we order ours from michigan”
what?
its the same frickin water
miumiu- my last response was harsh and I am sorry – but if you want a really really clean environment and is completely safe and sound and free of all harmful toxins, you should consider buying my house in oak brook. I made it so that all cancer-causing substances are kept to a bare a minimum (as humanly possible). Everything is natural with no additives or toxins on site. It is on two beautiful acres where I have a wonderful vegetable garden and can be totally self sufficient. It really is a great place – you really should consider it. Little doo doo will thank you and grow up very happy.
LMAO!
clio that is your best post ever
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-12-22/news/ct-met-chromium-water-contamination-20101220_1_hexavalent-chromium-national-toxicology-program-drinking-water
Clio I cannot even move to Chicago because of my job let alone oak brook. BTW, the water from Michigan is shipped in glass containers and is spring water.
miumiu – in what suburb do you reside?
I live in a small town not in a suburb : )
“I live in a small town not in a suburb : )”
And you visit Chicago most weekends but have no work reason to be here?
That article is retarded… yeah we have 3x the level of some “proposed” californian law about some chemical amount that may or may not actually cause cancer and may or may not actually be coming from the water
“He suggested that in some cases it could be coming from chrome-plated plumbing fixtures, not passing through municipal treatment plants.”
buying glass bottled spring water from Michigan is the most dumbassed and wasteful thing I have ever heard of… and if you live in a small town you don’t get lake michigan water anyway, so you really are talking out your ass!
DZ I work a good chunk of my weekends. I don’t need to be at an office to work. Actually I am taking time off though this month so I am not really working except emergency crisis management stuff.
Sonies, my small town is surrounded by fields and hence pesticides. I have seen enough friends and colleagues dying from cancer in their forties that I might have become paranoid. It might be wasteful as you say, but we feel good doing it. After all I am spending my own money and not using tax payer dollars.
As for the way you selectively read the article, remember that the dude has a vested interest in down playing the problem. I find it amazing that EPA does not require testing of metal levels in water.
“I work a good chunk of my weekends. I don’t need to be at an office to work.”
Understood, just curious whether your being in Chicago is purely recreational.
Evidence that hexavalent chromium ingestion at these levels causing cancer is non-existent.
Perhaps true Nat, but what bothers me is that how many things we are digesting at small levels and what is the aggregate effect of that on our bodies.
If that’s true (and I doubt it), you can thank the EPA and all those “danged liberals,” who made sure we wouldn’t be a country full of toxified mutants like the sad case of the flipper babies.
“ok – let’s stop this idiotic discussion. I am a doctor and I can tell you that genetics and bad luck probably account for 90% of all illnesses. All these idiotic stories about how this and that is bad for you are so stupid and moronic. True, if your genetic predisposition is for heart disease, you shouldn’t smoke, etc. – but people get way too carried away with this over-analysis. Seriously, folks – live your lives be cautious about certain things, but don’t worry about such nonsense. Your worrying about this shit is going to make you more sick (in the head) that this stuff itself.”
CSA=Cheap produce, Split a cow with some friends and will periodically pick up some stuff from the grocery story. the organic life dosen’t need to come with an ELP price adjustment…
Also, I think sodium is something we all miss with the HFCS/Cane debate, I have found that so many “processed” things with HFCS have TONS of sodium, does not help with the weight either… As little processing as practicable for me, and well, candy… Love my candy…
For health purposes, I drink nothing but water before 5:00 pm and nothing but wine after 5:00 pm. Magically delicious!
BB.. I am applauding.
I actually live on the block next to this property. The fire sirens are not a problem for us at all, and we love the neighborhood – close to everything, two parks/playgrounds within easy walking distance, friendly neighbors, etc. (Also, Lathrop is allegedly in the process of being redeveloped, and there have been a couple of highly contentious neighborhood meetings on this very topic). I do agree that the price is high, as the property has no outdoor space to speak of – no front porch, no back yard, no open deck – but it’s a unique and fun space.
I should probably restrain myself, but as a mom of 4, I do want to pass along some advice to miumiu: take a deep breath, slow down, and enjoy your baby. It sounds as though your baby is only a few weeks or months old, and yet you’re already imagining all sorts of control battles, adversarial stand-offs, and contests of wills. You’re setting yourself up for a lot of misery if you don’t learn how to work with your child, instead of against him. There’s a lot of joy to be had with the little person you’re holding. I suggest that you let yourself have some fun, and worry a bit less about all the threats and ultimatums you’re planning to bring down on his tiny head. 🙂
In regard to mothering and child rearing, the best advice I ever received was nothing but water before 5, nothing but wine after 5. And that goes for the mother too. 🙂
lol BB. Thanks for advice all, but I have to say I am amazed that as soon as word planning or discipline comes into the convo the parents all flip out as if I am some sort of baby Nazi (imitated from soup Nazi). I am a very patient person and almost never get mad or lose my calm. Still I am a firm believer in having standards. It saddens me that my doctor told me I am such an over achiever and no one is going to give me a medal for trying to have a drug free birth. Also the fact that he was constantly amazed that I had a smooth pregnancy, not too much weight gain, no high blood pressure and so on. I think there is something wrong with a society that finds what is supposed to be natural, so surprising.
As for working against a child, where did you get this from? I will not pay for an expensive education for a kid that won’t be interested in academic excellence to me that is working with the child not against him. I’d rather donate the money to some talented kid through a fellowship. It might be my left tendencies as Bob puts it, but somehow I don’t believe just because you give birth to a kid suddenly he is superior to other kids.
Miu I had the same doctor I think. The guy practically fell on the floor laughing when I said no drugs. Of course I ended up with a c-section…
He’s your child, you raise him how you want to. Of course this is my euro-opinion, but there’s nothing wrong with raising your child to be polite and to have respect for authority. You just might get sick however of people commenting on how well behaved your child is, as though it’s some kind of alien concept.
I know Jennifer. How was the c? I heard the recovery is tough, but my mom had 2 of them and she told me it is not always as bad as people say.
Also I am already exercising albeit mildly, I cannot believe the 6 week no exercise rule they have. Oh and my Dr. gave me ton of prescription for pain killers which of course I never took. I mean for heaven’s sake women have been doing this forever and many used to go back to work (say farming) days after delivery.
Of course C is a major surgery so I understand if one needs medication after that.
How is your son BTW? I hope he is doing better now.
“Evidence that hexavalent chromium ingestion at these levels causing cancer is non-existent.”
Nat the problem these days is infinitesimal amounts of these things are widely publicized but the public really has no background in statistics to judge their affects.
I have more than one friend who claims that tap water (infinitesimal amounts of impurities) and diet soda (aspartame causes cancer!) are bad, yet almost all of them smoke.
Pretty funny how the human mind rationalizes things. If the smokers get cancer they’ll blame it on the chlorine absorption into their skin from showering. LMAO.
There are infinitesimal amounts of certain things that are indeed quite bad (ie: plutonium), but as far as I know they are extremely uncommon and rare.
Don’t tell anyone but the c-section recovery was easier than the natural delivery one was! I also got sent home with enough Vicodin to put my kids through college. They thought I was crazy in the hospital for not wanting to be comatose for 4 days instead of enjoying my new baby. Although they sent me home with the first one when she was 4 hours old so this was a new experience for me.
He’s doing great, the only evidence of any issues are his surgical scar which will eventually be too small to notice. I think it’s affected us more than it will ever affect him. But for all my criticism of medicine in this country, I know that this would not have been discovered until it was too late if we had still lived in our old country. So for that I will always be grateful.
How is baby Deux Deux doing? Still obeying his sleep schedule?
“I think there is something wrong with a society that finds what is supposed to be natural, so surprising.”
Thats because the average American (pregnant woman) is a train wreck
Jennifer, the best birth plan I ever heard was my friend’s. It consisted of one line: “Everyone gets out alive.” 🙂 You did good, mama. I hope your recovery continues to go smoothly.
Bob, you might really enjoy this book, if you haven’t read it already:
http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Fear-Americans-Minorities-Microbes/dp/0465003362/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308332322&sr=8-1f
BettyBoop, you and I could be best friends. 🙂
Why thank you. Always fun to have a “virtual fan”. On to one other topic that I must share: I think men are great–some better looking than others, of course. But today, I was riding my bike and stopped at a red light and this guy was giving out snack bars to celebrate “ride your bike to work day”. I was stunned by his physical perfection. Simply stunned. If you put every fantastic attribute of what a perfect man would look like and punched it into a computer, this is what the computer would spit out. I actually proposed right on the spot because even if his personality was bad, just looking at that face would make up for anything. He laughed as he didn’t think I was serious. It was a great way to start the day!
I am so happy to hear that jennifer that both of you are doing fine. lol… for the vicodin. you should sell it on black market…hehe and finance the shoes we liked : )
@ Sonies, honestly it is partially because they believe pregnancy time is pigging out time. I had no craving except for beer once or twice, so I don’t buy it how all these women had to have ice cream all the time. I fault the doctors too partially as they don’t tell them as is. We have become bunch of wimps always indulging any wrong behavior and trying so hard to be understanding. Sometime one has to call a spade a spade.
Good for you BB. It is always a pleasure to stumble on a work of art and a object of great beauty. It is good for one’s soul : )
@ Mom2Many, the book looks interesting. I ordered it.
BettyBoop I’m jealous. Haven’t even seen the guy and I’m jealous.
Miu that would be a tough decision – 8 years of college tuition or 8 pairs of Louboutins…best to just dispose of them and remove the temptation I think!
“I was stunned by his physical perfection. Simply stunned. If you put every fantastic attribute of what a perfect man would look like and punched it into a computer, this is what the computer would spit out”
“It is always a pleasure to stumble on a work of art and a object of great beauty. It is good for one’s soul : )”
Love, love, love it!!! I actually enjoyed you ladies yapping about lady stuff, c-section scars and random hot dudes. its just a great to to socialize about nothing and enjoy.
snaps to bettyboop for vocalizing what most women are afraid to talk about in the presence of childish men (like myself). just plain out awesomeness i love it.
Saw something on last week, following up on Weiner scandal, that said research shows women are better off choosing mates who are less attractive than themselves. Seems that attractive males are sought out for short-term mating by females because of genetic advantages. The attractive males have more extra marital affairs, and are not as committed to their marriages, though they make better lovers. Unattractive men, on the other hand, don’t get these reproductive options and are forced to find one long-term mate and become good dads.
“I actually proposed right on the spot because even if his personality was bad, just looking at that face would make up for anything.”
“Unattractive men, on the other hand, don’t get these reproductive options and are forced to find one long-term mate and become good dads.”
Depends. Women are generally less shallow (caring only about looks) than men and a less attractive guy but in a position of power/wealth I’d bet has a lot more options for cheating than if the gender roles were reversed.
I can’t do a fugly I don’t care if she’s rich or can promote me or change my grade I just can’t do it.
Emma, I saw that article too in regard to the weiner scandal–but the truth is, weiner is not attractive so the article didn’t make sense. weiner is not good looking and look what he did to his wife. He’s so lucky to have that wife of his–I actually could not believe she settled for him when I heard they did marry last year–when I saw they were together–I figured it was a weird chemistry thing like Soon Yi and Woody Allen. Even without this scandal, she’s head and shoulders above him quality wise. If she stays with him, I will think less of her.
I’m thinking rich women don’t feel the need to marry the sperm donors. Also, even women already married to rich unattractive guys can get the benefit of short-term mating with the hot lover if they can convince their husbands that the offspring is his.
“Women are generally less shallow (caring only about looks) than men and a less attractive guy but in a position of power/wealth I’d bet has a lot more options for cheating than if the gender roles were reversed.”
Neither Anthony Weiner nor his wife are attractive in the least.
http://cdn2.mamapop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/huma-abedin.jpg
You must come from the school of thought that because she’s professional and accomplished she’s attractive?! Bwhahahaha. She has bigger teeth than the xenomorphs from the Alien series.
Dunno. Not the hottest guy around, but physically fit, has all his hair, decent bone structure. To me he is the more attractive of the two.
“Neither Anthony Weiner nor his wife are attractive in the least.”
anthony weiner is a midget, I doubt he’s over 5’3″
““Neither Anthony Weiner nor his wife are attractive in the least.””
money and especially POWER trump the ugly gene. i niether have money nor power but i have dang hot azz wife that is smarter than me and way above my league.
WOW, dang it i just realized my wife leveled down to have a faithful husband.
So if my husband is faithful does that mean I must be hot?
keep going girls… I’m enjoying this.
Jennifer, no, I guess it means that he is a loser and couldn’t get anyone else. Sorry! But I bet your very hot anyway. 🙂 In fact, I’m sure all the Crib Chatterer’s are sweet peices of meat as studies have been done that most of the beautiful people in the US blog anonymously on real estate sites.
“WOW, dang it i just realized my wife leveled down to have a faithful husband.”
If women were as superficial as men we’d be like wolves and only the alphas would reproduce.
“So if my husband is faithful does that mean I must be hot?”
If the summary is correct, I think it just means he is unhot, also an inferior lover (per summary).
I never heard he was tiny. Here’s a picture of him with Obama and Bawney, and he doesn’t seem shorter.
http://thecampofthesaints.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/obama-weiner-himes-frank-500.jpg?w=500&h=386
“anthony weiner is a midget, I doubt he’s over 5?3?”
ok, what clicks for a woman might be the most complicated weighting system ever discussed on Cribchatter.
“If the summary is correct, I think it just means he is unhot, also an inferior lover (per summary).”
oh shyte, this is turning out to be a bad day, if synopsis above is correct i am also a bad lover?
thats it i am going home and i am taking my ball.
Oh yeah forgot the one physical quality women ARE hung up on: height. They’d rather date a 5’11 guy with a GED than a 5’3 with a PhD. They don’t call it a Napoleon complex for nothing (and note that complex only applies to guys). Thank gawd I’m on the average side at 5’8. Most women want 5’9 or 5’10+ but drinks cause minor spatial geometry miscalculation.
“oh shyte, this is turning out to be a bad day, if synopsis above is correct i am also a bad lover?”
Still, your wife is hot (per you, not necessarily per study, but not inconsistent with study) and if only one of you can be hot, better your wife, no?
“thats it i am going home and i am taking my ball.”
Feels like there should be some way to work that into the conversation, but will stay with have a nice weekend.
Bob: Um, I hate to break it to you but there is one physical quality women ARE hung up on and it’s not really height….
It kind of works in the reverse too – if a woman is 5’8″ or taller the shorter guys can’t deal with it.
“if a woman is 5?8? or taller the shorter guys can’t deal with it.”
I’m just touching 5’11 and have dated over 6′ many times, even in heels I never had a problem with it.
“if a woman is 5?8? or taller the shorter guys can’t deal with it.”
I’m just touching 5’11 and have dated over 6′ many times, even in heels I never had a problem with it.
“women already married to rich unattractive guys can get the benefit of short-term mating with the hot lover if they can convince their husbands that the offspring is his.”
Best quote of the day…lmao
Now on Weiner and wife both are pretty ugly. The chick looks like a horse and the dude like some sort of rodent and the picture of his asset was pretty unimpressive to me.
I am 5’8” and I only date men taller than me, but some shorter guys have been confident enough to mistakenly hit on me, but often they were either rich or in position of power. I think men just go for law of large numbers, hit on as many women they can and hope for the best. Women are more rational and don’t go after men they think they have very slim chance with.
As for good lover thing, actually beautiful people try much less to please, so I won’t be surprised if less attractive people are better lovers.
As far as fidelity, a friend mine told me a great short story once:
A man marries a sizzling hot chick and the chick is rumored to be straying.
So a friend of the guy tells him, you should have married an ugly woman like me and not you did not have to worry about her cheating.
The guy responds, well I’d rather share sweets with friends than eat shit alone.
“I’m just touching 5?11 and have dated over 6? many times, even in heels I never had a problem with it.”
What kind of pumps are you wearing and she doesn’t seem to have a problem with them?
miu2: lol. And here is a big difference between men and women and dating: women know when men are out of their league. We just know it. Sometimes strange things certainly happen and an okay woman lands a prince (as we all recently witnessed). But men don’t know when women are out of their league. They have no idea. I have a friend who is very beautiful and when we go out, I’m stunned at the attention she gets–men that have no chance think they do.
“What kind of pumps are you wearing and she doesn’t seem to have a problem with them?”
Joke all you wish, I got great legs!
“–men that have no chance think they do.”
Yes, but not asking guarantees it.
Less attractive men do tend to try harder to please usually. Whereas less attractive women just aim lower. Which I guess maybe answers my previous question. Shoot.
BettyBoop you’re funny. Both with your size comment (its not nearly as big a factor as height, which by that time you’ve already sealed the deal) as well as your no chance comment lead me to believe you’re actually a dude.
From looks alone you absolutely cannot tell whether you have a chance with a gal. All it takes is for them to be emotionally vulnerable and separated from their friends (or an entirely cool group of friends which is almost unheard of with a pack of hot chicks–there is always one or more playing CBer or p-patrol as the case may be).
In fact _really hot_ chicks tend to be nicer because everyone’s been super nice to them their whole life. Doesn’t mean you’ll get anywhere but unlikely to provoke a negative response and its a fun time.
No chance with your friend Betty? Maybe around you (middle of the pack gal?), but you’d be surprised what girls do when they’re away from their social circle and feel like noone they know will know.
Bob you have a point with emotional vulnerability. Some women especially rebound with inferior men to feel good about themselves but often it is just a rebound.
But, believe me it is not true for them all. There are super attractive women who wait between boy friends for the next gem and don’t date just anything.
“Some women especially rebound with inferior men to feel good about themselves but often it is just a rebound.”
That’s why it is essentially a numbers game. For BettyBoop to be annoyed or dismissive about that guy who had “no chance” with her friend shows she doesn’t have a nuanced understanding of the game, or maybe jealous he went for the friend instead? 😀
Trudi on June 15th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Really love this place. It might take a little bit, but my guess is they find a buyer at about 675.
SOLD@675k. http://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/3100-N-Leavitt-St-60618/home/13360836