Looking for 5 Bedrooms in the West Loop? A Townhouse at 20 N. Loomis
This 5-bedroom townhouse in 20 N. Loomis in the West Loop came on the market in April 2021.
Built in 2018, this townhouse complex has 8 units and attached garage parking.
This townhouse has 10 foot ceilings and a private elevator for the 4 floors.
The kitchen, living and dining room are on the second floor.
The listing says no expense was spared in the kitchen which has custom cabinets, Wolf and Miele appliance and a large island with a waterfall counter top.
3 of the bedrooms are on the third floor with the primary suite and a fifth bedroom on the fourth.
The primary suite has 2 walk-in-closets and an en suite bathroom with a spa-like soaking tub and steam shower.
There is also a family room on the top floor with a full wet bar and a private terrace with a city view.
The townhouse has central air and a private 2.5 attached garage.
The listing says its in the Skinner school district.
At 5,634 square feet, with 5 full baths and 2 half baths, this townhouse is larger than many Chicago single family homes.
Originally listed in April 2021 for $2.5 million, it has been reduced to $2.495 million.
With few single family homes in the West Loop, is the townhouse the alternative for families in that neighborhood?
Victoria Rezin and Dawn McKenna at Coldwell Banker has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #F: 5 bedrooms, 5 full baths, 2 half baths, 5634 square feet, townhouse
- Sold in July 2019 for $1.738 million (per Redfin and Zillow)
- Originally listed in April 2021 for $2.5 million
- Reduced
- Currently listed at $2.495 million
- Assessments of $526 a month (includes gas, exterior maintenance, lawn care, scavenger, snow removal)
- Taxes of $41,217
- Central Air
- 2.5 car private garage
- Private elevator
- Bedroom #1: 18×20 (fourth floor)
- Bedroom #2: 14×15 (third floor)
- Bedroom #3: 14×14 (third floor)
- Bedroom #4: 18×13 (third floor)
- Bedroom #5: 16×14 (fourth floor)
- Living room: 26×24 (second floor)
- Dining room: 14×14 (second floor)
- Kitchen: 15×20 (second floor)
- Family room: 30×24 (fourth floor)
- Exercise room: 10×10 (lower level)
- Walk-in-closet: 14×11 (fourth floor)
- Laundry room: 11×14 (fourth floor)
- Terrace: 29×18 (third floor)
- Balcony: 12×9 (second floor)
Has anyone actually lived here since new? Sales history on Redfin is really weird. Has the feel of a developer owned unit that finally needed to get off their books for the original sale. Currently way, way overpriced
Lots of space, but the exterior is hideous. The rendering looks decent (But not screaming $2.5MM) but the actual pictures look like a basic new apartment building.
If I bought this, I’d have an overwhelming urge to punch myself in the face every time I left or came home.
This place is pretty bland, but it’s nice enough, I guess.
I’ve said this before, but… I think there is a much larger pool of buyers for 5 (and even 6) bedroom places than there used to be. If you have 1 kid + 2 spouses working from home (even part-time), that’s 2 bedrooms, 2 home offices and a guest room.
Of course, a couple of years from now when the WFH trend reverses, you’re stuck with a giant house
The Prada “art” advertisement is pretentious AF.
Who controls the retail space? Is there a pretty strict limit on the types of tenant?
“no expense spared”?? Pot filler? Where’s my le corneu???
Where’s the floorplan? C’mon!!
The top floor is pretty much ideal for making use of the outdoor space–apart from being 2 levels removed from the kitchen. Could stand a pergola, tho.
If my life were such that I just “had to” have TV available on the main floor, I would 1,000% do it with a projector, rather than having the black box on the wall all the time.
““no expense spared”?? Pot filler? Where’s my le corneu???
Only the truly rich have a bathroom in the entry vestibule. Kinda is offset by the $1.99 HD vent covers
The mud room is killer
Unit A is nicer IMO and sold for $2.1MM
On a $/sf basis, pricing isnt bad <$500/sf (Unit A <$400)
“le corneu”
traditional. doesn’t quite fit in with the design esthetic of the unit.
“traditional.”
Black and [stainless/nickel/brass] doesn’t fit the design aesthetic?
https://www.yaleappliance.com/kitchen/cooking-appliances/ranges/dual-fuel-ranges/CH5USK1
“Sales history on Redfin is really weird.”
RF does a partly automated pull. A human looking at the actual records would have no issue figuring it out. NOT a developer retained unit.
“Black and [stainless/nickel/brass] doesn’t fit the design aesthetic?”
nope. much prefer the look of the current appliance package in this particular unit.
“I’ve said this before, but… I think there is a much larger pool of buyers for 5 (and even 6) bedroom places than there used to be. If you have 1 kid + 2 spouses working from home (even part-time), that’s 2 bedrooms, 2 home offices and a guest room.”
Good point Madeline. Everyone wants/needs home offices now.
As I’ve said in the past, I think apartment developers will be building a new type of apartment with a small “den” where you can work from home in both 1 and 2 bedroom units. It doesn’t have to be a big separate space. But this will be required now.
You don’t need a full bedroom to achieve this, either.
Luxury homebuilder Toll Brothers has said in the last 6 months that buyers are customizing their homes with 2 or more home offices now.
Either way, comparing with Unit A, the “expense not spared” was spec’ing cabinet fronts on the refrigeration, upgrading to the wolf cooktop, adding the waterfall marble on the island, and eliminating a bunch of upper cabinets.
I prefer the look of this place to A, by quite a lot, but I dislike BS about kitchens so much.
“Good point Madeline. Everyone wants/needs home offices now.
As I’ve said in the past, I think apartment developers will be building a new type of apartment with a small “den” where you can work from home in both 1 and 2 bedroom units. It doesn’t have to be a big separate space. But this will be required now.”
Great, you just pushed the price point up $50-$100k.
“Luxury homebuilder Toll Brothers has said in the last 6 months that buyers are customizing their homes with 2 or more home offices now.”
Toll Brothers /= Luxury.
“Toll Brothers /= Luxury.”
It says so right on their “About” page, JU:
“Toll Brothers, an award-winning FORTUNE 500 company founded in 1967, is the nation’s leading builder of luxury homes.”
Not just luxury, but the nation’s leader in luxury!
Yeah – every time I drive past a Toll Bros development I think, who’s the big McGaffer that’s living in those fancy schmancy track/town homes
“Yeah – every time I drive past a Toll Bros development I think, who’s the big McGaffer that’s living in those fancy schmancy track/town homes”
Ignorance again.
Average home price for Toll is about $800,000. They do build a “starter” luxury home, 25% of which are being bought by Millennials, which starts around $500,000 (depending on the market.)
Highest price point they build is $3 million, which is in California. And obviously California average price is much higher than, say, Florida or Texas.
Land prices matter, obviously.
They build custom, so, yes, it is luxury homes at a higher price point. No one said they are building individual homes as a one-off in Lincoln Park. They leave that to local builders.
“Average home price for Toll is about $800,000. They do build a “starter” luxury home, 25% of which are being bought by Millennials, which starts around $500,000 (depending on the market.)”
$800k isnt luxury. The rest is your usual BS filler
“They build custom, so, yes, it is luxury homes at a higher price point. No one said they are building individual homes as a one-off in Lincoln Park. They leave that to local builders.”
No the dont build custom, unless you you think picking out a paint or siding color makes it custom – you’re lying again. Call them and try and customize something (Say a 2 deep garage) and let me know what they tell you
I really dont get your need to lie 24/7.
The price makes sense but not if it comes with George, from the pace grill next door coming over and preparing breakfast a d doubt some eta d up every morning! Used to go there almost every Sunday. Watched this get built & wondered who would buy these super big and expensive units this far west.
Looks like they found those buyers. WTH is the Prada commercial there? Are agents getting paid $$$$ to slip them. Into listings?
Toll Brothers definitely does luxury, you just don’t see it often in Illinois. See the Mesa Ridge community in Las Vegas or there are plenty in California. Sure you get a vanilla box at 1m but at a 2m price point you definitely get a well designed luxury build similar to their models: https://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes-for-sale/Nevada/Mesa-Ridge
Watched these developments go from 900k to 1.3 base within a year, you might get that kinda appreciation in 20-30 years in Illinois. California tax refugees are a real thing.
Using that criteria, I guess Hyundai is a luxury car maker as well…
Looking at the Cascade model, the only real customization is adding a 2nd garage that is multi purpose. I don’t consider that “Custom”
“$800k isnt luxury. The rest is your usual BS filler”
In the housing market, yes, it is.
Please quit replying about something you don’t know anything about.
The home builders in the starter home category used to build in the $200,000 to $350,000 range, but I’ve noticed with the big price increases in the last year, they can’t make it work at $200,000 in many locations so average sales price is around $300,000 but in some cases even at $400,000. Depends on what markets they build in. Obviously, no one is building in California under $500,000. Even in Bakersfield.
This would be first time buyer and starter home categories for the home builders. $500,000 is not first time home buyer. $800,000+ is luxury.
If you even bothered to look at the various websites you would see immediately what is meant by “customization” and why Toll is considered luxury- as it IS.
Toll’s level of finishes are well above the starter home builders. They will customize the home, as, like I said, adding more offices instead of bedrooms. Another big feature right now is an in-law apartment with a separate entrance. People are scared to put their parents into assisted living facilities with COVID so they’re starting out with them actually IN the house.
No other publicly traded home builder does Toll’s level of customization. But, as I said, there are plenty of local builders on the luxury side who work the local markets (the one off house in Lincoln Park or Lakeview, for instance.)
As someone else said, Toll is not a big builder in Illinois. The demand hasn’t been here. There was 36 months of inventory in the North Shore of luxury houses pre-covid.
“Call them and try and customize something (Say a 2 deep garage) and let me know what they tell you”
Adding rooms, reconfiguring the kitchen and adding inlaw apartments with separate entrances are all custom.
Yes, JohnnyU, they DO build custom.
Their “starter” $500,000 homes? No, those aren’t custom in that way. Those homes make up about 25% of their sales in a given quarter.
“The home builders in the starter home category used to build in the $200,000 to $350,000 range, but I’ve noticed with the big price increases in the last year, they can’t make it work at $200,000 in many locations so average sales price is around $300,000 but in some cases even at $400,000. Depends on what markets they build in. Obviously, no one is building in California under $500,000. Even in Bakersfield.”
Nice job of moving the goalposts. Were talking luxury, not starter. Unless you want to double down and say theres only starter and luxury homes. You do this everytime your are wrong
“If you even bothered to look at the various websites you would see immediately what is meant by “customization” and why Toll is considered luxury- as it IS.”
Now its customization, Vs your original statement they build custom homes. Keep moving those goal posts. I did look that Toll Bros homes – The one DGAF posted and noted that there was 1 structural modification same at one of the high end CA developments. Thats not custom, no matter how much you act like Veruca Salt
“No other publicly traded home builder does Toll’s level of customization.”
Now we have another qualifier…
DR Horton will “Customize” (as you define it) as well
I guess you go around bragging that you have a “Custom” car because you chose to have leather seats Vs cloth LOL
For the last time moron – Picking something they already have is not custom, its an option. Custom would be asking (and getting) something not on the menu. Again, talk to a rep and see if they’ll build something not offered as an option.
“$800,000+ is luxury”
And people making $150,000 are “rich”.
I didn’t realize that you’d gone over to that camp, Sabrina.
A new house for $800k, in a major-ish metro, is *marketed as* luxury. It’s mass market “luxury”.
https://hbr.org/2003/04/luxury-for-the-masses
“$800,000+ is luxury”
So is this place Super-Luxury? Double Luxury? I dont think it qualifies for Ultra-Luxury as there’s no pergola
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1096-Sweet-Ave-San-Jose-CA-95129/19649305_zpid/?
Literally words have zero meaning to you. You just make shit up and then act like its gospel.
Toll brothers homes here are crap on postage stamp sized lots in boring suburban style mass planned communities.
But, they are a huge step up from most of the other builders (dr horton, lennar, etc) you definitely have to pay for your luxury though in up charges.
Their model homes are super pimped out with sometimes double the price of a base home. Still wouldn’t buy one though but if you put a gun to my head I guess I’d choose a TB house over some of the others.
[crappy SJ house]
c’mon, that’s $1.5m of dirt with a yurt. And it’s close to the fancy private school.
The nearest SFHs that Toll is building now are in Morgan Hill, and start at $2.1m (~$500-600 psf):
https://www.tollbrothers.com/luxury-homes-for-sale/California/Borello-Ranch-Estates
Closer in, it’s $1000 psf townhouses (and SFH would be, too, if they had a big enough plot to get entitlements and build a SFH subdivision on). Which in base spec look like the ~$400-500 psf THs here.
To consider what is genuinely “luxury”, as opposed to expensive, you really need to back out the dirt price, and the cost of doing business (fees, labor differential, etc) in the locations, which isn’t terribly easy.
Yes, *location* is a luxury good, too. But for the most part, Toll isn’t acquiring “luxury” locations for SFH, and only a limited amount for TH/Condo.
“c’mon, that’s $1.5m of dirt with a yurt. And it’s close to the fancy private school.”
Not disagreeing but I didn’t set the criteria for Luxury
“To consider what is genuinely “luxury”, as opposed to expensive, you really need to back out the dirt price, and the cost of doing business (fees, labor differential, etc) in the locations, which isn’t terribly easy.”
Agreed, Id include amenities in these planned communities as well.
Dumbing down of definitions of “Luxury” or “Custom home” to the point where everything is custom or luxury is stupid and renders the work meaningless (Unless your trying to shill something)
“Id include amenities”
Yeah, I think that all the community infrastructure (and all the infrastructure, generally) gets added into the “dirt” piece of the overall cost–basically the costs borne by a master developer using a featured builder program or something similar is “dirt”, imo, as it goes into the per lot cost to said featured builder or a hypothetical individual wanting a full custom home.
Compare to our local Sterling Bay’s Victory Ranch project near Park City.
“Toll isn’t acquiring “luxury” locations for SFH, and only a limited amount for TH/Condo.”
That’s why the local builders exist. The big billion dollar builders keep costs low by building in larger tracks, as you know. In urban areas, and suburbs, very little of that land exists anymore.
“And people making $150,000 are “rich”.”
Look at the national stats. This is, actually, true.
Just all of you are buying/living in the greenzone (except for the bears on this site all of whom, interestingly, don’t live in the city of Chicago). Greenzone is rich. It’s not middle class America.
Go out to the suburbs. Lots of those are middle class America, thank goodness.
The city is now expensive. Haves and have nots, I’m afraid. Vast majority of people aren’t even making $150,000 with two salaries.
“Now its customization, Vs your original statement they build custom homes.”
Toll Brothers is very well known in the home building industry. Has been for 50 or 60 years.
It has always focused on the luxury market. It continues to focus on the luxury market. And, yes, it will customize much more than DR Horton, Lennar, KB Home or any of the others. Because their buyers have the money to do that. They easily will spend an extra $100,000 on upgrading, adding more offices (as I keep saying, a huge percentage of their buyers are adding 2 or more offices) or doing things like adding an inlaw apartment (the next popular thing, apparently.) They can, and do, change the floorplans.
They are NOT going to make you a new house from your architectural design plan. As I have said 2 times now, there are custom luxury home builders in every city and state in America who build the one-off house on the lot you purchase for them to build the one-off house.
That is not what the national homebuilders do.
They build to SCALE. SCALE means many, JohnnyU (just so you understand what it is they do.)
They will customize their homes. I don’t remember the percentage that customize the floor plan but it is high. Because, again, people are building their forever home. They are rich. They have the money to do what they want and will do it.
That is why Toll is a luxury homebuilder.
The end.
“Compare to our local Sterling Bay’s Victory Ranch project near Park City.”
Wow, the infrastructure, and the amenities there, are something. Just having a big outdoor pool merits a huge premium. Did a summer trip from Chicago to Park City to stay the Stein Eriksen, mainly because it has an outdoor pool, which for people with kids obviously tends to be the single most important thing. Places with nice outdoor pools are pretty rare in the mountain desitnations of CO/UT/CA.
“Places with nice outdoor pools are pretty rare in the mountain desitnations of CO/UT/CA”
IMO, they are pretty rare in the US outside AZ, FL, Vegas and HI.
“[people making $150,000 are “rich”] is, actually, true.”
GTFO.
$150k income from work for a single person, maxing 401k, and paying reasonable amount for a benefit package nets ~$8k/month. At current interest rates, the PITI on that hypothetical $800k Toll Brothers house is “affordable” at ~$4,200/month, if the $160k dp can be had.
Is $3,800/month, after housing expense, enough to live pretty well on? Of course!
Is that “rich” by an objective standard that isn’t based on a comparison to the poor? Be serious. There is a fuzzy line that is somewhere higher than that, but well lower than UHNWI.
Now, if we’re talking about $150k in dependable passive income, especially in the current yield environment, that’s a different thing. But that’s also closer to UHNWI than it is a working person making $150k for their ~2000 hrs/yr, and paying OI FIT on all of it.
“$150k income from work for a single person, maxing 401k, and paying reasonable amount for a benefit package nets ~$8k/month. At current interest rates, the PITI on that hypothetical $800k Toll Brothers house is “affordable” at ~$4,200/month, if the $160k dp can be had.”
$150,000 is rich in the United States anon(tfo).
Get out of your bubble.
Statistically that puts you among the top wage earners.
No one maxes out their 401ks except the rich, actually.
Again, get out of your bubble. The middle class isn’t doing anything that you describe.
“$150,000 is rich in the United States anon(tfo).
Get out of your bubble.
Statistically that puts you among the top wage earners.
No one maxes out their 401ks except the rich, actually.
Again, get out of your bubble. The middle class isn’t doing anything that you describe.”
Why do you insist on changing commonly held definitions of words? Virtually no one would describe $150k as rich.
And yes MC people making under $150k do max out their 401k’s They understand the term delayed gratification and dont take exotic vacations, dont buy a $600k condo, etc
Talk about living in a bubble…
“$150,000 is rich”
When the class war comes, you’re up against the wall, too, Sabrina.
Buncha f’ing numbnuts that call a gal with $150k income the same thing that they call the top partners at Kirkland, nevermind the Pritzkers or Bezos.
“And yes MC people making under $150k do max out their 401k’s They understand the term delayed gratification and dont take exotic vacations, dont buy a $600k condo, etc.”
No, they really don’t. They simply can’t afford to save that much into a retirement account, also save for kids college, pay the mortgage and have a car. Nor should they be encouraged to try and do so.
There’s no good data about retirement savings because Americans have their accounts through private brokerages and they are scattered everywhere. The best we can do is tap into what Fidelity and Vanguard, the two largest retirement account operators, are telling us about what their customers are doing.
Thankfully, every year, both of them put out reports about the trends, including the savings rate etc.
In 2020, Vanguard reported that using 2019 data 12% of plan participants maxxed out. We don’t know their income level, of course. But it’s clear that the middle class is most likely not among them as the middle class is much, much larger than 12%. It matches up with what the upper middle class would be doing. Those making $150,000 and higher. They have more cash sloshing around to be able to do it, frankly.
Vanguard also reported that in 2019 the average total contribution rate, combined with employer match, was 10.7%. Again, if you’re making $90,000 a year, and doing the average of 10.7%, you’re not putting in $19,000.
It’s just not realistic to think the middle class could max out.
Has anyone here tried to live on $75,000 with a couple of kids? You would be lucky to put in $2,000 or $3,000 (and hopefully get a company match for some of it). There are other things that are more important.
https://institutional.vanguard.com/ngiam/assets/pdf/has/how-america-saves-report-2020.pdf
“It matches up with what the upper middle class would be doing. Those making $150,000 and higher.”
UMC /= rich.
WTAF??
I read into anon (tfo)’s example of a single person earning $150K as being alone as well….e.g. no kids. As someone earning around about that, without kids, living well below our means compared to 99% of other homeowners in Dual Income No Kids house I can assure you, we max out our 401Ks and we are not rich….comfortable, yes….one major illness away from financial ruin….also yes. Therefore not rich…not buying second homes in Aspen or Hawaii (or Michigan for crying out loud). We pay a $hitload in taxes since we aren’t real estate magnates. I have friends whose household income probably is a 1/3 more than ours, sending kids to private school and living in larger/pricier homes than us…they made those extravagant choices and skimp pretty much everywhere else (no exotic vacations or 2nd homes). Pretty sure they are maxing out college and retirement savings or are counting on an astute home purchase equity to fund a chunk of their retirement…..
“As someone earning around about that, without kids, living well below our means compared to 99% of other homeowners in Dual Income No Kids house I can assure you, we max out our 401Ks and we are not rich….comfortable, yes….one major illness away from financial ruin….also yes.”
$150,000 is not middle class.
“$150,000 is not middle class.”
So it must be “rich”??
GTFO!!
To me, “rich” is when you have enough wealth that you don’t need to hold a job. Maybe you keep a job for your own amusement, self esteem, or to lord over underlings. You can quit at any time and your lifestyle won’t change. You can weather any downturn. Maybe when you’re young, you pretend to live like everyone else because it’s a novelty and you want to pretend to make it on your own, but you can escape that life at any time. Maybe you do obnoxious things, like handing thousands of dollars to someone who is just UMC and ask that person to gamble the money away solely for your amusement. Other times, you might pretend to have scruples and work at a non-profit, despite coming from one of the wealthiest families in the country. Eventually, you get tired of living as if you are UMC and then go to work for the family business in some worthless job, so you can still carry on the illusion that you’re working class.
“To me, “rich” is when you have enough wealth that you don’t need to hold a job.”
Yeah, rich is about assets (including pensions, retirement accounts, *known* future inheritances, etc), not income from work–at least until you’re tipping into the highest marginal rate, year after year.
No you just dont understand Sabrina’s brilliance
One of the tell tale markers of the rich has been the inability to fully fund their 401k’s
The rich also have to worry about their kids education, Mortgage and paying off their car notes
So in essence the rich are just like the MC. Except maybe they drink wine out of a bottle
BTW, a CPD sergeant, working zero OT, who is married to a *first year* CPS teacher make $150k, and are, thus, “rich”.
Same thing with a CPS teacher (10 year exp, just a BA) and a garbage truck driver. Also “rich”.
Any they don’t have to max out 401ks, nor pay 6.2% for FICA.
Can’t call them middle class!
The teacher and police sergeant both have extreme job security followed by guaranteed incomes during retirement. They have excellent health insurance. They are UMC and don’t have the same worries as others of that income. Most of us don’t know when the next corporate restructuring or buyout will happen. We will face age discrimination and perhaps even get laid off a few years before we can get Medicare and may have to take social security early. The sergeant and teacher are set for life.
“The sergeant and teacher are set for life.”
They still aren’t “rich”, tho.
This townhouse just closed at $2.365 million.