Luxury 1-Bedroom Reduces in Streeterville: 600 N. Lake Shore Drive
We last chattered about this large 1-bedroom in 600 N. Lake Shore Drive in October 2009.
See our prior chatter and pictures here.
It is still available and has been reduced another $10,000.
600 N. Lake Shore Drive are two new construction towers right on Lake Shore Drive
If you look at this recent report on the Streeterville market in 2009 from Vikas Wadhwa at Streeterville Homes, you can see the number of sales in the building in 2009 was up 17.6% compared to 2008, a rarity in the Streeterville high rises.
http://www.streetervillehomes.com/market-report.html
This unit has hardwood floors throughout and 9’4” ceilings.
It also has custom window treatments.
Laura Anderson at Belgravia Realty Group still has the listing. See more pictures and a virtual tour here.
Unit #3003: 1 bedroom, 1.5 baths, 1037 square feet
- Sold in July 2008 for $517,000 (don’t know if this included the parking- I’m assuming it did)
- Originally listed in July 2009 for $480,000 (parking extra)
- Reduced
- Was listed in October 2009 for $475,000 (plus $55,000 for parking)
- Reduced
- Currently listed for $465,000 (plus $55,000 for parking)
- Assessments of $336 a month
- Taxes are “new”
- Central Air
- Washer/Dryer in the unit
How does it work in new buildings when all of the units are not yet sold? Are the occupied units responsible for covering the cost of the assessments from the unsold units?
At what point does the developers responsibility turn over fully to the condo board?
Danny, at 757 Orleans the agent said the developer turns the condo over to the board when the place is 75% sold, or 3 years after construction. So either way, the rest of the building will have to bear the empty units in this market.
“So either way, the rest of the building will have to bear the empty units in this market”
Developer should be paying (or making a lump sum contribution at turnover) for the units it still owns.
So the Lake View and City view shown on the weblink I am guessing is NOT what you see from the unit correct?
LOL 510k for a 1 bedroom place with a view of the adjacent building with slightly above average finishes…
well then again there are a lot of stupid people out there…
It is the developers responsability to pay the assessment for the unsold units, untill the unit is sold.
I just can’t get with the $500k 1 bedrooms. Nice finishes and all but at the end of the day, it still is just a 1 bedroom. Not very practical
“It is the developers responsability to pay the assessment for the unsold units, untill the unit is sold.”
Yep – Assmts aren’t underestimated by the developer just to qualify more buyers, it’s to keep their bills down too.
My advice to new boards with a lot of unsold units is to raise the assmts immediately to pad reserves at the developer’s expense. Then, lower them after the developer is mostly sold out.
There’s several buildings in Streeterville which offer 1 beds that are $500k+. I think the only neighborhoods which can support $500k+ 1 bedrooms are Streeterville / Gold Coast / Lakeshore East.
Also, one thing to keep in mind is that this is a very large 1 bedroom – almost 1,000 sq. ft.. I’ve seen 2 bedrooms in older / not as nice buildings that are about this size and still in the $400k’ish price range. When you factor in newer building, low assessments, good lake shore drive address, beach access, etc…I can see why people pay the premium to live here.
Also, assessment is fairy low for this unit, so I think that makes a difference too. One bedrooms in older buildings such as John Hancock, Mies buildings on lakeshore, and others have cheaper one bedrooms, but assessments can be in the $500 – $600 per month range. I think that also impacts prices. If you’re thinking from a total cost prespective, the difference in assessment can account for a $50k price difference in some instances.
This building has had ten 1 bedroom sales in the last 12 months per the MLS – ranging in price from $501,000 to $636,000 – so there is demand for this type of product.
Vikas Wadhwa
http://www.StreetervilleHomes.com
“I just can’t get with the $500k 1 bedrooms. Nice finishes and all but at the end of the day, it still is just a 1 bedroom. Not very practical”
Yeah I’m sure that there’s someone out there that thinks this is worth a half million bucks, but that will never be me. I know SV is the holy grail of Chicago neighborhoods and all that jazz, but it’s still a 1br condo.
My friend bought at RD in the WEst Loop after they cut pricing dramatically. Part of his contract read that he had to come up with three months of assesments at closing. I could not believe this but the developer actually had the balls to ask new buyers to “buy in” and pay for monthly assesments on the 3 months prior to purchase when they did not even occupy the unit. I do not know if all buyers fell for this scam but he did. Amazing! It was called “building the reserves” or sometbing stupid. I’d bet big that the developer did not add that sum to the reserves. My guess is that they used those dollars to feed missing standard payments or actually took that cash out of the project.
They also had a contract stating that they would not escrow money fur the unpaid taxes. They had language stating that they indended to pay but would not guarantee payment of old tax bills. My money says that this tax will go unpaid by the developer! That should wipe out most of that first time buyer tax rebate that many unit owners received when they purchased their units.
Has anyone ever heard of other buildings with similar situations?
It’s not uncommon for a new building to require a larger lump sum to shore up reserves when the unit is purchased, but if the contract states that is what they are for then the developer is in breach if they use them for something else.
As for unpaid taxes from the developer, that’s an issue if they are past due, but that should be something the title company looks at before the buyer closes.
G Said – “My advice to new boards with a lot of unsold units is to raise the assmts immediately to pad reserves at the developer’s expense. Then, lower them after the developer is mostly sold out.”
I wonder if condo associations could get away with this???? Wouldn’t the developer have vote(s), if they still owned units? I like the thought process, and there are many new condo associations that should see if it is feasible.
i shall direct you to my previous post on this;
http://cribchatter.com/?p=7385#comment-51546
jp3 said “They also had a contract stating that they would not escrow money fur the unpaid taxes. They had language stating that they indended to pay but would not guarantee payment of old tax bills. My money says that this tax will go unpaid by the developer! That should wipe out most of that first time buyer tax rebate that many unit owners received when they purchased their units”
I’m in RD659..We actually got a tax bill for $6600 for 2006 taxes on our unit. funny thing is it is not our pin number either. We gave it to building management who said the developer will pay it. we’ve requested to know when they pay it so we can check! i dont get how they can send a tax bill to someone that didnt own anytime near that tax year and also is not even the same pin/unit.
“i dont get how they can send a tax bill to someone that didnt own anytime near that tax year”
Technically (in a simplistic way), the real estate itself owes the taxes. If you have title to the real estate, your interest in it is subject to the county’s lien for taxes, whenever they accrued.
“and also is not even the same pin/unit.”
Ever get someone else’s mail? Same principal–someone who doesn’t care about doing a good job screwed up and your name ended up attached to the PIN.
Papu, the developer definitely has a vote per unit like everyone else. You just have to outvote him. Any association with “issues” with their developer (who still owns many units) should do this. Keep in mind, once the developer is sold out, their LLC is typically as broke as their promises.
If I had more time, I could tell some stories of doing similar things back when I was a prop mgr specializing in new board transitions. Co-op turnovers were even more fun and games.
RD 659 did not ask me to pay for assessments prior to my closing date. I did have to pay three months worth of assessments when I moved in, but I wasn’t aware that was abnormal. My closing was
Hmm, it cut off my comment when I used the less than sign. I was saying that my closing was less than three months from when I signed.
cabinets from home depot. yuck.
I had to pay 2 months of HOA fees when I closed on my unit in Wicker Park. It was a brand new association.
Take it from someone who’s written condo docs as a large-firm attorney (1970s), developed condos (1980s) and reviewed many condo docs over a nearly 40-year period.
It has always been standard practice in new construction and condo conversions to require 2 or more months’ assessments as a reserve contribution at closing. This is for the association’s rather than the developer’s benefit. I have never seen a developer contract that didn’t require a reserve contribution at closing.
The reasons for doing so are too obvious to require explanation. Except, perhaps, to CribChatterers.
The developer is responsible for paying assessments on unsold units. Unpaid assessments become a lien on the unit that would be paid at closing if not otherwise paid. If the developer has any equity in the unsold units the assessments will be paid at closing even if the LLC has no funds.
Section 18.2 of the Illinois Condominium Property Act specifies that the property must be turned over to the board not later than 60 days after the closing of 75% of the units or 3 years from the recording of the declaration, whichever is earlier. The turnover has occurred at 600 LSD.
jps, well thought out…”I’d bet big that the developer did not add that sum to the reserves. My guess is that they used those dollars to feed missing standard payments”
I’d take that bet too… almost funny thinking how easy that would be to do.
building reserves, on an unfilled building. while making it sound like a pre war co-op in NYC
f yourself Joe; how hard are you hanging on the developers balls!
“The reasons for doing so are too obvious to require explanation. Except, perhaps, to CribChatterers.”
Ahh the 500k one bedroom from 2008, about as fashionable as black lights in 1999. I truly hope for the owner that liquid gold comes out of those faucets.
Joe V.
Thanks for the explanation from your perspective. The quesiton is that if the developer lives up to his obligation to fund after unit #1 is closed “The developer is responsible for paying assessments on unsold units” and we assume that this happens then why would the builder give a damn about building the proeprty reserves with an extra payment? The developer will hopefully be out of the project asap and could have no reason to ensure the reserves are met. Your logic and argumnet makes no sense from a developers perspective.
Perhaps it is common as you suggest. I have never closed on a property that was sold from a developer. The idea is good for the buyer and board but it still seems odd that the developer is really intersted in that issue.
Joe In your experience have you ever seen a condo developer put language in the contract that states how they plan to pay old tax bills but would not escrow the money at close or guarantee payment? That sounded really odd.
jp3,
I’ll take your latter question first.
You’ll find contract language like this in virtually every major development and in most smaller ones that I’m familiar with. Note that it generally applies only to taxes for the current year, which are payable in the following year.
Having been a developer I can answer your earlier question from a developer’s perspective.
The first thing buyers need to realize is that most developers’ incentives and motivations don’t even remotely resemble those attributed to them in paranoid ravings on CribChatter. Most developers are highly motivated to do what’s in their buyers and projects’ best interests, and act accordingly. They’re mostly honorable, sensible people who act honorably and sensibly – even when it proves costly to them.
Developers know that, no matter how good a job they’ve done in anticipating and estimating expenses (and most make a serious attempt to do so), the building may very likely incur unanticipated expenses.
A condo building is akin to a startup business. No experienced or informed person would start a business without setting aside some reserves for unexpected expenses or increased costs, and no sophisticated investor would stake his money on one.
I don’t think any sane person here would dispute that a condo board should build a reserve – so how can they possibly question a developer’s providing for one? The cost should logically be borne by the people who will benefit from it – the new owners in the association. When the developer turns over control to the board he doesn’t want the board to be in the position of having to increase assessments to fund a reserve he failed to provide for.
Developers have an interest in their project’s ongoing success as well as in their initial success. This should go without saying.
“Cribchatters” dumb? No way! 🙂
Except when said developers go out of business. Then it matters little their intentions–there is no entity left to cover any shortfalls it falls on the owners. Note JZ never discusses this possibility but instead chalks up these hesitations to “paranoid ravings”.
Guess I’m a paranoid raver then, as we’ve seen many developers go out of business via chapter 7 over the past couple of years.
Joe Z – most developers are scumbags like yourself. The evidence is abundant. How many new developments don’t have major unresolved problems?
Pete, Bob, Ze, revassal,
The intelligent readers here see that you have no relevant knowledge or experience to contribute to this thread.
They recognize that your ravings are about you and your neediness, not about the topic at hand.
They understand that your comments are compulsively driven by the shame, humiliation and rage that the profoundly ignorant experience in the presence of the successful and knowledgeable.
You’re only fooling yourselves if you think otherwise.
Your psychoanalysis is totally off-base, but hey, you tell yourself whatever you have to so you can make it through another day. The fact of the matter is that most people here think think you’re an a$$&*$e and they want you to return to the cave from which you came.
“They understand that your comments are compulsively driven by the shame, humiliation and rage that the profoundly ignorant experience in the presence of the successful and knowledgeable.”
“I don’t think any sane person here would dispute that a condo board should build a reserve – so how can they possibly question a developer’s providing for one?”
At 2 months assmts per unit(at developers’ suppressed rates), developers have not “provided for” reserves. It is an isufficient amount that they don’t even contribute to.
“The cost should logically be borne by the people who will benefit from it – the new owners in the association.”
That’s the problem today. Developers are still holding units at turnover. At that time, they are “benefiting” equally with other unit owners. Yet, they have paid nothing. It’s even worse when they rent unsold units.
“When the developer turns over control to the board he doesn’t want the board to be in the position of having to increase assessments to fund a reserve he failed to provide for.”
LOL. He did fail to provide an adequate reserve. He doesn’t want the increase so he doesn’t have to pay for it. Nor does he want to raise the bar for the “howmuchamonth” marks that he craves.
Every condo with unsold units at turnover today should strongly consider a large assmt increase. It can always be reduced, and/or rebated, after the developer is gone.
It is one of the only sticks that buyers have. Remember, developers and their lawyers and assorted shills think they are smarter than you because they make the rules and fully intend to take advantage of them.
Joe,
damn, man if you are really as ‘bad a$$’ as you try to come across, you really have thin skin….westloop was better at it than you. (he only got annoyed at 1 person, mainly)
moreover your arguments make some sense(as far as how to make as much money out of an unsuspecting buyer, line developers pocket etc.) but not to the points people have been discussing here, usually with the basis of educating buyers on some negotiation points of letting buyers know just tell the seller ‘shove it’ to gimmick fees and terms.
A good developer would care about reserves of their creation, but as we can tell, good developers are few and far between!
I feel your pain, homedelete.
It has to sting that my old law firm is paying starting salaries double what you’re probably earning and that it’ll take you 10 years of soul-killing grunt work to match what a mid-level partner there earns in a year.
Tell yourself whatever you want to get through your day, but when your day ends you know what kind of track record got me there and got you where you are and are likely to remain.
“The intelligent readers here see that you have no relevant knowledge or experience to contribute to this thread. ”
all the intelligent people on here, that’s almost everybody…but you, anyways um we all discuss points/views/predictions but nobody disparages anybody else(well except for bob’s racism, but even I know thats is not all of bob so…that’s saying something, dude, just chill, i’ll try to ignore your comments.
but you suck
revassal,
There’s an old saying that if you don’t know who the rube is in the room, you’re the rube.
It fits you and most of the regulars here like a glove.
Your “bad developer / unsuspecting buyer” meme doesn’t match reality.
thats fine, you can insult my heritage, but I, in groove style, won’t share my basketball with you!
revassal,
… nobody here disparages anybody else …
Get real. The regulars here savage almost anybody who has any real knowledge, especially if they’re in real estate.
W.H. Auden described this place and its denizens 70 years ago:
All the conventions conspire
To make this fort assume
The furniture of home;
Lest we should see where we are,
Lost in a haunted wood,
Children afraid of the night
Who have never been happy or good.
your internet analysis skills about as good as bill frist tv/video diagnosis of shivio.
you should hire an expert I know anon, I heard he charges about 200/hr but you say you can afford that, if I were you I get him he is very good.
Joe Zekas is a renaissance man. In that he tried at several different careers, never really succeeded at any of them, but now just manages a cash flow negative interweb website.
“It has to sting that my old law firm is paying starting salaries double what you’re probably earning and that it’ll take you 10 years of soul-killing grunt work to match what a mid-level partner there earns in a year.”
Has to sting for you indeed, Joe. Because you aren’t earning this money. You’re foray into law didn’t last quite that long did it Joe? Longer or shorter than your stay as a hospital orderly? 😀
It tells a lot about someone when they accuse you of being jealous of their money. That is profoundly sad…
JZ seems like a really knowledgeable guy. I sincerely hope he is able to one day contribute his knowledge here without external factors distorting his reality.
P.S. – Joe, I had an idea for your website. I think you could potentially make a lot more money if you cater to your users more and not so much the advertisers. It seems like if you get a big enough user-base, the advertisers will come anyways, no?
“Joe’s self description of himself as a “dirt-poor Pennsylvania coal-town kid, shortest in class through 8th grade, New Jerseyan, hitch-hiker, motorcyclist, [1. statistical typist], [2. library clerk], [3. delivery boy], classical scholar wannabe, [4. gas station attendant], [5. tuxedo salesman], [6. psychiatric aide], [7. social worker], civil rights activist, draft-dodger, [8. gun-toting truck driver (Brinks)], [9. bartender], [10. temp secretary], Lucey’s Raider, Wisconsinite, [11. large-firm attorney], [12. real estate developer], [13. condo converter], [14. tax shelter syndicator], [15. multi-level marketer], married person, [16. newspaper publisher], money-losing tech gadfly, [17. software developer] to name a few.”
Boy Joe you’ve tried and failed at just about every career path, eh? Better hang onto that RE blog Joe because honestly who is going to hire you at your age with a resume like that?
Sounds like a story of confusion and a rags to rags story of one of a dirt poor Pennsylvania coal town kid who bounces around aimlessly in life and winds up as a dirt poor Illinois meat town old guy, eh?
I do enjoy it when you try to give career advice or criticism on here, though. You’re the court jester, its a comedy, and its the quintessential story of the pot calling the kettle black.
“Oho!’ said the pot to the kettle;
You are dirty and ugly and black!
Sure no one would think you were metal,
Except when you’re given a crack.
“Not so! not so! kettle said to the pot;
‘Tis your own dirty image you see;
For I am so clean -without blemish or blot-
That your blackness is mirrored in me”
-Maxwell’s Elementary Grammar
JZ is a prime example of Generation Greed.
If he’s not trying to make you a bagholder for their RE Ponzi scheme, he’s belittling you for not earning the big money that they made unsustainable.
bob,
How sad my plight that no one would hire me – except, oh wait, The Wall Street Journal, the Tribune, the LA Times, major brokerage firms throughout the country, etc.
All my “failures” enable me to comfortably subsidize YoChicago by an annual amount that doubtless exceeds your take-home pay.
G,
My generation built things. Yours – at least the hopefully tiny part of it you represent – whines about being unable to afford them, and envies mine its success.
JZ’s Generation Greed built things alright: mountains of debt and unfunded liabilities.
The second loudest whines we hear are coming from JZ’s developer clients since condos are getting more affordable each and every day. They are only exceeded by the wails of the suckers JZ brought to them who now find themselves hopelessly underwater.
“Joe’s self description of himself as a “dirt-poor Pennsylvania coal-town kid, shortest in class through 8th grade,””
I get it now. This all has to do with the size of lil’ joey.
G,
You just can’t get anything right, can you? I hit 6’2″ in high school.
“You just can’t get anything right, can you? I hit 6?2? in high school.”
But Joe its clear from your online persona you’re still that scared undersized coal town kid, at least on the inside.
“You just can’t get anything right, can you? I hit 6?2? in high school.”
But Joe its clear from your online persona you’re still that scared undersized coal town kid, at least on the inside.
You know, Joe, I don’t envy you, that’s the thing. I really don’t. You can try and convince yourself that everyone envies you, but that’s just not true and it’s not based in reality. In fact I think most of the world would probably stab you in the back and steal your money if they got the chance, hell, I know I would.
Furthermore, belittling someone over the money you think they don’t make just makes you a loser, a really big loser. Money isn’t everything in life. It doesn’t go with you when you die. And any amount of belittling me over what you think I make only makes me feel sad for you. I really do, I pity you Joe, you’re not someone I envy, you’re someone I pity. In fact, I don’t want to be you. I would rather be a bum on the street, homeless and living in a cardboard box, than to be someone that I pity, like you.
“Joe Zekas on January 31st, 2010 at 10:47 am
I feel your pain, homedelete.
It has to sting that my old law firm is paying starting salaries double what you’re probably earning and that it’ll take you 10 years of soul-killing grunt work to match what a mid-level partner there earns in a year.
Tell yourself whatever you want to get through your day, but when your day ends you know what kind of track record got me there and got you where you are and are likely to remain.”
“You just can’t get anything right, can you? I hit 6?2? in high school.”
LOL. Yet still trying to overcompensate for his lil’ joey.
All the successful people I know are confident enough in themselves that they don’t feel the need to constantly prove it. Joe Z and Steve Heitman (whoever he really is) are both hyper-defensive and constantly acting like they have something to prove. Anyone I’ve ever known in real life who acts like this is a wannabe – constantly telling themselves and everyone else how great they are but having little to really show for it.
If Zekas were so successful and content with life, he wouldn’t kill a good portion of a Sunday afternoon on a message board that he hates in a losing attempt to stand up for himself. But I do hope he sticks around for entertainment value.
homedelete,
“In fact I think most of the world would probably stab you in the back and steal your money if they got the chance, hell, I know I would.”
Of course the fourth-rate lawyers take pity on the law review / biglaw types. Of course they do.
Back-stabbing is probably your only skill.
G,
So I’ve got a short person complex?
Lamely analyzing the staff was a favorite sport among the people I kept under lock and key. Ah, how you take me back to those days …
Is this the best you guys can do?
I note that none of you have either taken issue with the substantive knowledge I’ve offered – or even been able to comment intelligently on it. That pretty much says it all.
Pete,
Now that’s a fairly decent shot at me. Not accurate, but at least a credible effort.
I note that JZ has neither taken issue with the response I offered to his substantive knowledge – or even been able to comment intelligently on it. That pretty much says it all.
You don’t make any sense Joe. You’re not a law review/biglaw type anyway. You subsidize a money losing website, which in my book, makes you, at most, an amateur hobbyist with a passing interest in real estate.
I pity you because you’re pathetic, with has nothing to do with how much money you made in a former life, which I’m sure you won’t be able to get through your shit for brains in your head.
The only thing you’ve got going for you is your arrogance, which is your way of coping with the bitter taste and contempt you leave in your wake.
“Of course the fourth-rate lawyers take pity on the law review / biglaw types. Of course they do.
Back-stabbing is probably your only skill.”
“Of course the fourth-rate lawyers take pity on the law review / biglaw types. Of course they do.
Back-stabbing is probably your only skill.”
Hmmm…..haven’t been the site in a while (looking at commercal real estate) but it’s good to see there is still lively “discussion”. For what it’s worth, the property tax issue was a breaking point for me on a new construction loop condo I had put in an offer on a while ago. The developer documents had no language on property tax responsibility. I asked for language to be added stating that the developer was responsible for property taxes incurred up to the closing date. The developer refused and I walked away.
G,
Your response was off the wall and didn’t merit a reply.
Try presenting it to an actual condo board and see how quickly you’re ushered out of the room.
homedelete,
You’re correct that I’m not a “type.” But I was on the law review board and spent 5 years at biglaw before venturing out into real estate development. It’s been a while but I don’t recall any of the people I worked with fitting into a “type” either.
In your take the years I spent developing real estate and managing a dozen partnerships that owned 100s of units makes me “an amateur hobbyist with a passing interest in real estate.” I guess I must bow to your superior experience, i.e. your years spent fantasizing about buying your first home at exactly the right point in the market.
I’ve read quite a few of your comments. I find it hard to believe that you’re actually a lawyer. Perhaps you just play one on CribChatter.
you know what joe – I broke my cardinal rule. Like someone once told me, never argue with an idiot because to a bystander, you look like two idiots arguing.
ciao!
A wise move, homedelete.
Follow the thread, folks. I came here and made some substantive contributions to clarify what had been a knowledge-free zone.
The response – a torrent of the same old same old CCers lashing out mindlessly against evil, manipulative developers. When I called them out on their ignorance, of course they turned on me. That’s the CribChatter way.
The regulars here are, mostly, hopeless. The bystandards are smarter and more discerning than you credit them with being, and can easily see who has has knowledge and experience on their side.
Sabrina’s been a good host to you guys. It’s a shame you won’t let her audience grow by allowing more intelligence into the scene. But then, you wouldn’t be able to play one-eyed kings in the country of the blind.
“I don’t think any sane person here would dispute that a condo board should build a reserve – so how can they possibly question a developer’s providing for one?”
At 2 months assmts per unit(at developers’ suppressed rates), developers have not “provided for” reserves. It is an isufficient amount that they don’t even contribute to.
“The cost should logically be borne by the people who will benefit from it – the new owners in the association.”
That’s the problem today. Developers are still holding units at turnover. At that time, they are “benefiting” equally with other unit owners. Yet, they have paid nothing. It’s even worse when they rent unsold units.
“When the developer turns over control to the board he doesn’t want the board to be in the position of having to increase assessments to fund a reserve he failed to provide for.”
LOL. He did fail to provide an adequate reserve. He doesn’t want the increase so he doesn’t have to pay for it. Nor does he want to raise the bar for the “howmuchamonth” marks that he craves.
Pay attention, folks, and note that the attacks started in JZ’s first comment in this thread.
G,
If your misguided assumptions were accurate your argument might make some sense.
Only one problem: your assumptions are, in the majority of cases, wildly off base. In the case of the larger developers with a proven track record they’re almost always off base. Your lack of real-world experience is palpable.
Here’s how it mostly works in the real world. Developers, especially experienced ones, do a workmanlike job of building. They correct any mistakes out of their own (LLC’s) pocket or at the expense of a generally solvent contractor if the defect is the contractor’s responsibility. The larger developers especially have made diligent and sophisticated efforts to avert construction problems and achieve high levels of quality control. They spend a lot of money on lawyers and do a lot of due diligence to ensure that their contractors are responsible and financially healthy. Experienced construction lenders and investors would settle for nothing less, and add their own safeguards into the process.
Developers, recognizing that their valued customers don’t like surprises and are often litigious, make a serious effort to prepare accurate assessment budgets. The budgets are often prepared with input from experienced property managers.
The assessment budgets typically include a line item for reserves – so the developer is, in fact, contributing to reserves on unsold units on the same basis as other unit owners.
At the point of turnover the new building is typically problem-free. It has reserves, from buyer contributions of 2 or 3 months’ assessments, that equal 12.5% to 19% of annual operating expenses. Inadequate to you; acceptable to most property managers. Clearly acceptable to home buyers, who are not typically clamoring to pony up a higher reserve contribution or to increase assessments to “soak the developer.”
I expect you to respond with all the outlier instances and wild-eyed theories you can conjure. The simple, inescapable fact is that the great majority of home buyers report being satisfied with their new construction purchase. And many go on to repeat purchases from the same developer.
Joe Z….such a bore.
anyway i’m not a gold bug by any definition but here’s an interesting link and chart for the gold bugs out there:
http://pragcap.com/chart-of-the-day-gold-prices-could-double-or-triple-before-getting-too-bubbly
Interesting chart homedelte. Thanks for posting.
I dunno exactly what generation you feel your apart of, but I gather your like 60-70. Anyways, your generation better fix something quick or it should be know as the can kickers/obstructionists (McCain/Lieberman).
*pollution, climate change, multi +10 Trillion entitlement shortfalls, the fiscal deficit the structural deficit, US led international conflict, i believe your generation allowed (Cambodian, African(multiple) Yugoslavia, etc genocide mass killings), Madoff, blood diamonds, shift away from sustainable agriculture, production, and living arrangements. the destruction of nature, natural live biodiversity, you know god earth and all that jazz, you guys have and are contiuing to destroy that stuff.
Moreover why would you want and or condemn us for being young upand comers when you obviously had many opportunities, if I have 1/2 by the time I am as old as you; I know I am only 1% the ass you are. oh and I’d be well off too.
I probably shouldn’t have been saying/remarking on who balls you hang on too, I apologize for that one remark.
Your probably doing this just to get people on your site.
“G,
My generation built things. Yours – at least the hopefully tiny part of it you represent – whines about being unable to afford them, and envies mine its success.”
isn’t golds biggest use pound for pound just jewelry. I know some tech apps but really. I know your saying an inflation hedge but if it gets bad enough even could be a weinmar type stack, or maybe society would have broken down; and guns maybe the worthwile/differentiator commodity instead.
“The simple, inescapable fact is that the great majority of home buyers report being satisfied with their new construction purchase.”
Even those who already closed in Belgravia’s 565 Quincy property and numerous others who have been vetroed? I’m sure some do still claim it as a coping mechanism with their entry into debtor’s prison. The “great majority?” Tell another lie, you desperate shill.
You’re out of touch old man. Those surveys went out with the bubble correction and are no more applicable today than claiming the US mortgage default rate is always steady.
G,
I’m sure J.D. Power is waiting for your input. Its surveys show increased buyer satisfaction in 2009:
http://www.jdpower.com/homes/articles/2009-New-Home-Builder-Customer-Satisfaction-Study
I’m out talking to builders, brokers and buyers all over Chicago – as it’s easy to see from my site and on YouTube. You’re sitting in a dark room somewhere telling me I’m out of touch.
the third best thread EVER!!!
bravo HD, G, and Joe Z. Bravo!
some very entertaining reading there. Proof that when the NFL season ends people are lost until march madness 🙂
“The regulars here are, mostly, hopeless. The bystandards are smarter and more discerning than you credit them with being, and can easily see who has has knowledge and experience on their side.”
Ouch, i am a regular and have been hit with the cross fire, Ouch
“I would rather be … living in a cardboard box, than to be someone that I pity, like you. ”
Wait. You don’t? I thought you’d moved out of the uptown studio to save money.
“Ouch, i am a regular and have been hit with the cross fire, Ouch”
I feel your pain groovester.
“isn’t golds biggest use pound for pound just jewelry. I know some tech apps but really. I know your saying an inflation hedge but if it gets bad enough even could be a weinmar type stack, or maybe society would have broken down; and guns maybe the worthwile/differentiator commodity instead.”
I think the “prior bubbles” aren’t a good comparison–especially not Tech and China, as there was an expectation (deluded or no) that fundamentals of teh asset class were going to change. Barring discovery of a new, necessary-to-daily-live use for gold (like, say cold fusion) gold will still just be gold–a store of value that has some utility. So, except as an inflation-hedge, it’s extremely unlikely to reach a comparable bubble-peak (and I’m hesitant to say that it is actually bubbly at the current price).
“I feel your pain groovester.”
i will take the back handed slap just because the above stuff was so darn entertaining. kind of sad it ended 🙁
i dunno I though I was being complementary when I referred to you guys.
Revassal,
i think we are referring to Joe Z taking shots at all the CC regulars(addicts) in each of his posts.
“thats fine, you can insult my heritage, but I, in groove style, won’t share my basketball with you!”
“i think we are referring to Joe Z taking shots at all the CC regulars(addicts) in each of his posts.”
2. And i’m just joking around about “pain”. I don’t care what Jay-Zeke has to say about my i-tube persona.
well it can make more an hour than he could. its probably all about his site traffic, has a bet w/ Sabrina and to tilt the results he stirs the nest. anyways back to work.
“on’t care what Jay-Zeke has to say about my i-tube persona.”
was that really joe z? I dont remember him sounding so histrionic in the past.
“I’m sure J.D. Power is waiting for your input.”
Doubtful they need it, but the readers here might enjoy some background on lil Joey’s latest deceit. First, we will ignore that these are homebuilders in the survey, not condo developers.
“Its surveys show increased buyer satisfaction in 2009”
A quick look at JD Power’s site tells you why that is: “Markets with the highest levels of overall satisfaction in 2009 include Orange/San Diego, Calif.; Sacramento, Calif.; Phoenix, Ariz.; Inland Empire, Calif.; and Tampa, Fla.”
Geez, why would the places with the biggest price declines outside of Las Vegas show the greatest satisfaction? Hmmm, maybe for the same reason that Belgravia’s current knife-catchers at 565 Quincy will be more satisfied with their purchase than those who were suckered (with the help of lil joey) prior to the price declines? Lookie here what is included in the survey: “Price/Value: This score is based on how new-home owners rate the value for price paid and value for price paid for options and upgrades with their home.”
But wait, that’s not all. According to JD Power, “Nine factors drive overall customer satisfaction with home builders: workmanship/materials; builder’s warranty/customer service staff; price/value; builder’s sales staff; construction manager; home readiness; recreational facilities provided by the builder; builder’s design center; and location.”
Some of those factors were not in play much in 2009. How do I know? As JD Power says, “the builder’s sales staff, construction manager and home readiness factors have declined in importance.” Not many reasons to knock down ratings there, as the JD Power rep states: “”Compared with past years, fewer home buyers are spending large amounts of time working with construction managers or are concerned about home readiness, since many builders have large inventories of homes that are already complete at the point of purchase,” said Sonkin. “For home owners, this can make for a smoother, turnkey ownership experience, with fewer unanticipated delays.”” It seems that less interaction with the builder means higher customer satisfaction – who would of thunk it?
I will leave it to the readers here to determine if these are “wildly off base assumptions.” How could it be that someone “sitting in a dark room somewhere” could figure this out, yet the all-knowing one could not?
I already know that lil joey is a deceitful shill. You should, too.
I was just scanning the vitriol for actual home/condo posts but hate seeing words abused:
Bystanders are the people who watch two (or more) idiots argue.
Bystandards sounds like a group of standard bylaws. If it were a word.
G,
Anyone with a 6th-grade reading comprehension level will see how badly you’ve distorted the meaning of the J.D. Power survey.
Many of the community colleges offer remedial reading programs at an affordable price. You ought to look into them.
And, since you have zero familiarity with new home builders, let me give you a tip: the big guys also build condos. Lots of condos.
No distortion at all. Three of the nine factors were non-factors per JD Power. You can ask your marks who already closed at 565 Quincy their opinion of the Belgravia’s “Price/Value.” You have to be pretty ignorant to believe there is no correlation between the areas with the highest ratings and price declines.
We all see how you don’t address these facts.
Since you have zero familiarity with honesty, let me give you a tip: you are a deceitful shill.
“let me give you a tip”
Anyone else remember justatipo dot com? Which allowed for the sending of anonymous advice (only from their list of advice, so no “remedial reading” or “deceitful shill”) by email?
I miss the days of no-viable-biz-plan websites that offered stupid but fun stuff for free.
Here’s the humor in this, G.
For all your calling me a shill anyone can easily see that I’ve accurately reported and linked people to more useful, credible negatives about real estate and the players in it than you and your ilk have. I also report the positives, and that drives you bonkers because you’re not in a position to enjoy them, and probably never will be.
The dangerous shilling is done by anonymice who know nothing and are unwilling to learn anything and just clutch their little bundle of resentments.
You shill for ignorance. Few will call you out on it because people instinctively shy away from rabid animals. But they know one when they see one.
Still not addressing the facts? Just more lame analysis of an anonymous G?
I posted repeatedly here since 2007 that buying in a place like 565 Quincy would be a big mistake. You shilled for Belgravia. Heck, you subsidized their advertising through your money-losing website in order to get them some suckers. That is what you and your ilk have done and everyone knows it.
BTW, if you have to explain humor there is none. Well, there is that bit where we’re all laughing at you.
“people instinctively shy away from rabid animals. But they know one when they see one.”
Now this is one I can’t argue with. The success of your website proves your point.
Ahhh Crib Chatter,
A great place for people interested in learning the in’s and out’s of Chicago properties. Thank god nobody ever takes thier converations on a tangent.
Such a sad story.
The voice of the prophet G, crying from the CC wilderness, went unheeded.
Buyers were distracted by his inability to read well, by his hysterical aggression, by his anonymity and failed to perceive his superior wisdom. G threw pearls before swine, and the swine mistook them for moose droppings.
Buyers, lulled into a false sense of trust in their own judgment by their educational and occupational achievements, not to mention their ability to read clearly, were easy prey for Zekas and the developers.
Can’t you see, G, that your argument boils down to this: people who are smarter than you, who’ve worked harder than you and achieved more financial success than you, who’ve seen more real estate than you and knew more about it, who understood their own wants and interests better than you, completely disregarded you and made their own decisions?
You’re a Holden Caulfield wannabe, railing against the grown-ups and the phonies and playing at being a catcher in the rye.
The grown-ups listen to everyone they perceive as being worth listening to and then make their decisions, recognizing that sometimes their decisions take them off a cliff. I can’t make them do anything. Developers and real estate agents can’t make them do anything. But at least they pay attention to us because we know things they want to learn. They just ignore you. Not that that bothers you – you’re too dim to perceive it.
You should find this exchange flattering, G. I know you do. It’s a rare event in your life when someone like me pays attention to you – except when you hand them their claim check and they hand you the keys to their car.
jesus christ!
“It’s a rare event in your life when someone like me pays attention to you – except when you hand them their claim check and they”
I’m sure glad I didn’t ignore G and instead ignored JZ. Had I listened to bubble denier JZ I would’ve purchased a condo a couple years back & been vetro’d or CMK’d.
Its such a simple concept to understand yet Joe Zekas can’t wrap his simple head around it: in predicting this decline G was right and Joe was not, hence JZ doesn’t have much credibility as far as predicting market conditions. He is the ostrich of real estate valuations.
Bob,
I don’t make market predictions, and haven’t made them.
You and G and your soul-mates didn’t either – you engaged in wishful thinking and now want to call it a prediction. It’s as if you wished for the sun to shine the next day and, when it did, you called yourself a meteorologist.
I said then what I say now. Markets are local and product-specific, and you don’t learn much about a local market or home type from general national data. I did then what I do now: link people to a variety of data sources and opinions. Market predictions are beyond my competence – and not very useful to home buyers.
There’s one thing I can predict with some certainty, based on the historical record: you and G will desperately continue to distort my position and that of anyone who disagrees with you.
My apologies to any parking lot attendants or valets who might be offended by my earlier statement: I do realize that almost all of you have more on the ball than G.
Joe Z,
love the feud with you and G, greatly entertaining keep it going 🙂
one thing though, belittling someone for how much money they make or what job they have, well its just tasteless.
If G works at Mcdonalds or Parks your car shouldnt factor who he is or what he believes and shouldnt be your go to punch.
A job as a CEO is no better than a job at Jiffy lube.
Joe you are such an idiot. You don’t know a god damn thing about parking lot attendants, do you? I find your pathetic attempts to mock those on a lower social scale than you to be mean, cruel and again, down right pathetic. Parking lot attendants bust their collective asses to move your car around and they get paid a living wage to do so. Many of them came from foreign countries where they have been oppressed at worst or at best have no opportunity to earn a living to feed their families. You in your north shore living arrangement feel the need to mock them to make yourself feel better, when in fact, you’re the loser. Seriously, go jump off a bridge or something, get the hell away from this site, your vitriol and bitterness is infectious and you leave a black cloud of shit wherever you go. Leave, just go, Sabrina should start deleting your comments just like you’ve deleted the comments of those who post on your site. Please leave now and don’t let the door hit your ass on the way out.
“My apologies to any parking lot attendants or valets who might be offended by my earlier statement: I do realize that almost all of you have more on the ball than G.”
Is vitriol the word of the day or something?
As usual, homedelete, you completely miss the point, go postal (no slur intended to USPS workers) – and engage in exactly the type of stereotyping you condemn (“north shore living arrangements”).
Is it mocking parking lot attendants to suggest that people generally don’t pay much attention to them, or that G’s opinions are similarly ignored? You’re going to have to explain that to me.
Again, you are a dumbass. Plenty of people know and are very friendly with their parking lot attendants. I know this for a fact; I receive referrals all the time from other attorneys who have befriended their valets and attendants. I had a case involving a few parking lot attendants they know all the famous and wealthy people in their buildings.
It’s only jerkwads like yourself who ignore think that they are ‘generally ignored’. Just shut up already, you’re embarrassing your with your arrogance.
Furthermore, G’s opinions aren’t ignored, you wouldn’t continually respond to them if they were ignored. You should treat him like you treat parking lot attendants.
p.s. do you not live in the north shore? is that not true? You don’t even live in Chicago?
“Is it mocking parking lot attendants to suggest that people generally don’t pay much attention to them, or that G’s opinions are similarly ignored? You’re going to have to explain that to me.”
LOL. I am concerned about being correct in my opinions but could care less whether or not they are ignored. Joe Zekas is here for the opposite reasons.
LOL @ the deleting posts comment. I’ll admit I go to Joe’s site on occasion to read the comments for entertainment value. My favorite was where he screamed (in txt) YOU’RE BANNED to some commenter. It reminded me of the soup nazi. 🙂
Joe Z is a very important contributor to society (in his own mind & on the internets)
You mean he participates in DoucheBaggery!
It appears that homedelete has become completely unhinged by my calling him out on his status on the lower rungs of the legal profession – and by my wondering aloud whether he is in fact a lawyer.
I know my parking attendant’s life story, where he came from, his wife’s and newborn’s names, and how he plans to make a better life for himself in this country.
I visit tons of condo buildings each year – and see first-hand how people interact with their parking attendants.
Is that standard lawyer chit-chat these days – “Hi, hoedelete, I’ve befriended my parking attendant and have a referral for you.” I guess I am out of touch.
As I head to and from my River North office from the parking lot I get to see how frequently people ignore him or treat him abusively.
I live in Wilmette, homedelete. Two seconds research would have revealed that. So what? I spend my days in the city – and all over Chicagoland, seeing real estate on-site and talking to people in the business and to actual buyers. You spend your days in hte crib, acquiring superior knowledge.
The put-downs here are almost as lame as the real estate analysis.
Joe, please don’t take another vacation from this place you are full of comedic gold such as this gem
“I know my parking attendant’s life story, where he came from, his wife’s and newborn’s names, and how he plans to make a better life for himself in this country.”
LOL!
Hey Joe Z,
In good sportsmanship how about throwing a matching donation over at the anti-cruelty
http://cribchatter.com/?p=8155#comment-63413
“It’s as if you wished for the sun to shine the next day and, when it did, you called yourself a meteorologist.”
Sooo true. When the Economist magazine has a title page in 2005 called after the fall and shows a skyrocketing graph of house valuations relative to incomes not seen in the 20th century a correction is indeed akin to predicting the sun will shine the next day.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Shiller_IE2_Fig_2-1.png
You might not have felt comfortable predicting the future of house prices in 2005, but I was fairly comfortable after seeing the above graph.
Groove,
Just to keep my reputation intact, let me kick some puppies to the curb.
According to the latest available Form 990, the ACS had over $28 million in cash and marketable securities, and almost no liabilities. At the current expense level it would take well over 4 years just to spend down their cash. What are they hoarding it for?
http://ag.state.il.us/PDF_IMAGES/Indexes20081201/01002416-2007.pdf
The ACS doesn’t meet BBB standards for charitable giving.
Lots of places need money more than this cash-rich.
Joe hates animals AND people.
JZ – “Just to keep my reputation intact, let me kick some puppies to the curb.”
Wow…this is about as mean-spirited as it gets. First off, a link to the BBB report on ACS – http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/chicago/animal-protection/the-anti-cruelty-society-in-chicago-il-11124.
Hmmm…ACS doesn’t hold 3 board meetings a year, did not fill out a BBB form and don’t replicate a form available on a state web site at their web site….I’m sure the animals that they serve get very upset about these oversights.
ACS cautiously and prudently oversees their endowment…How dare they!!!!
ACS is totally reputable and does good work.
I’m tempted to sit back and let more CCers soil themselves, but even I take pity on occasion. Sabrina deserves better than having the lunacy of her regulars so starkly clarified.
At a time when many charities are in desperate financial straits, I suggested that people consider donating to a needy one rather than a rich one that, according to the BBB, fails to meet transparency, disclosure and corporate governance standards.
That makes me an animal hater and “about as mean-spirited as it gets?”
shit I see no other alternative than donate to balance the universe
b4 I do, I need to challenge Joe to offer a better cause?
“Bob,
I don’t make market predictions, and haven’t made them. ”
From 2007 http://yochicago.com/builders-ending-the-standoff/6108/
“If you plan to buy a home in Evanston or Wilmette, all I can say is good luck with getting a lower price next year. If you plan to buy in any number of builder subdivisions in further out suburbs, good luck with getting a better price next year. And so on.”
“There are pockets of the Chicago metro area that, I believe, are undervalued today, much of Wilmette and Evanston being in that category.”
“If history is any guide, demographic flows are going to increase demand substantially in these near-in suburbs in the coming years. It doesn’t take all that much of an increase in demand, coupled with adequate purchasing power, to drive prices up in highly-desirable areas.”
Joe Z,
Just a simple “sorry, but i have my own charities that i already donate too” would have been the best route.
TS,
Thanks for the link. It enables anyone who’s interested to read the context from which you’ve selectively extracted my remarks.
You could have quoted this, from the same thread:
“I think I have some economic sense (not a lot, but some) and I don’t know that prices will be lower in a year. Nor do you.
“They may be, but that’s a sheer gamble at this point, not the certainty you make it out to be.”
Read my entire analysis with the subtlety with which it was written and you’ll see that my “good luck with that” was a restatement of the gambling notion – I considered waiting for prices in selected areas to fall further a bad gamble. Saying something is a bad gamblel isn’t the same as predicting something will happen.
To say that something is undervalued is not a prediction that values will increase. History tells us that things can remain undervalued for long periods of time.
To cite historical precedent and speculate about its applicability to coming years, given certain conditions, is not a prediction that those conditions will occur in any specific time frame.
Taken together with the earlier caveats I raised in that thread it should be clear to the careful reader that I was raising doubts about the simplistic certainties of the other commenters.
It was a Dirty Joey – feeling lucky punk? – exchange from my standpoint with guys who never count the bullets and still don’t.
Groove77,
Better than expressing a preference for giving to those in need instead of further enriching the already rich?
If you really believe that would have provoked a more civilized response I’d respectfully suggest that you’ve misunderstood the CC zeitgeist.
Joe Z,
Put down the thesaurus and the brandy 🙂 “zeitgeist” really? i had to go and look that up. really do people use “zeitgeist” in daily life? or just to puff their chest out and show their peacock feathers?
“Better than expressing a preference for giving to those in need instead of further enriching the already rich?”
call me slow but doenst your website pander to making the rich greedy developers richer? (not all developers ar crooked and greedy just generalizing)
Groove77,
Sorry to inform you that lots of people use the word in daily life, without reaching for a thesaurus, because they spend time among people who think critically and know that a decent vocabulary is necessary to critical thinking.
Check out my site stats:
http://yochicago.com/yochicago-%e2%80%93-the-tip-of-an-iceberg/13564/
Did I get that size audience by pandering to developers or to readers? It isn’t hard to figure out. There are audiences for lots of different takes on real estate, including the bizarro kind that feasts on phrases like “rich greedy developers.”
I don’t know whether you use a phrase like “rich greedy developers” beyond this venue. I can tell you that its use will cripple your ability to have a conversation with almost anyone (outside academia) who’s had much success in life. You’ll find them making a polite excuse to get as far away from you as quickly as possible.
Baiting Zekas into a never-ending pissing contest is about as easy as losing money on condos!
No one is gambling by waiting for better prices because the potential buyer hasn’t lost anything. Its only gambling if you have the potential to lose somehing which a fence sitter has not. Its the same old shill routine: buy now or be priced out forever!!
Joe Z,
You know the reason i use an anonymous name on the intertubez? because if i decided to go on a drunken ranting tirade or become a angry old fart (i.e. Drunk Joe Z), using my real name i will be reflecting my Company and my Family in a bad bad bad light.
I will say you do put out a good product and thats why you get audience you do, but do it such a disservice buy how you present yourself. I know the older you get the inner brain “care what people think” filter slowly deteriorates, but for the sake of all thats professional put down the scotch snifter and count to five before you bang out the crazy when you type.
what you may see as “who had much success in life” most likely is not the way i view success. and neither of our views are correct but both are valid.
this phrase cracks me up;
“its use will cripple your ability to have a conversation with almost anyone (outside academia) who’s had much success in life. You’ll find them making a polite excuse to get as far away from you as quickly as possible.”
as you dont know me, what company i keep, who’s parties i am invited to, who’s kids birthdays i attend, and what clientele i bring into my company or interact with (and end up on their Christmas party list).
if you ever want to tread the waters of “greedy developers” debate i am game. just remember will give my examples/facts in a simple (read dumb) non-fancy let me show me superior language skills way.
Do you ever notice when i post on your website i show you “respect and keep it classy”? it because on YoChicago it your house and i was raised with manners.
P.S. Hey guys you notice the trend, All my arguments here have been with North Shore uppity “im better than you” look downy types?
I am rethinking that kenilworth idea.
Just a side comment about this discussion:
Crib Chatter receives no money from developers, real estate agents or anyone else in or related with the real estate industry.
This site is completely independent.
I probably have 2 or 3 drinks a year, Groove. But then a classy guy like you isn’t bothered much by those kinds of facts.
“I probably have 2 or 3 drinks a year, Groove. But then a classy guy like you isn’t bothered much by those kinds of facts.”
oh sorry about that, i forgot the drinks dont mix with your crazy meds.
BAM!!! you have been CLASSED
Damn Joe, you really ARE so much better than everyone else. Now tell me all knowing swami, want to put a bet on where the new construction market is headed for 2010? I’m sure your answer will be completely without bias as to not offend your sponsors correct?
And you are an Obama lovin liberal aren’t you. I can tell just by the way you type.
Joe – “life. You’ll find them making a polite excuse to get as far away from you as quickly as possible.”
That’s why you appear to be stupid. you say dumb statements whether it be about re or about people on this site. Plus when you accuse/challenge somebody, you forget that too. There’s stuff for that – aricept.
Groove – I did warn you/cc about this (I’ve lived in/up there) That is the reason I came down here, but I’d be more comfortable in the countryside. people are better in the city/there are more better people. re is better up there.
“P.S. Hey guys you notice the trend, All my arguments here have been with North Shore uppity “im better than you” look downy types?
I am rethinking that kenilworth idea.”
“Groove – I did warn you/cc about this (I’ve lived in/up there) That is the reason I came down here, but I’d be more comfortable in the countryside. people are better in the city/there are more better people. re is better up there.”
You weren’t the only one. But then that discussion decended into ugliness (more than once), much as this one has.
Altho I’m certain (truly) that Joe is a pleasant neighbor. Doesn’t seem the type to sh– where he sleeps.
lol
“Doesn’t seem the type to sh– where he sleeps.”
he does shyt where it pays for him to sleep.
i donated, Joe loses again!
Hey re….they only held 2 board meetings in 2009, don’t always fill out forms that are not related to their core mission and don’t clutter their website with information available elsewhere on the web! Are you sure you don’t want to get your money back????? 🙂
damn! netdsgnr, must be because I am not as successful as Joe is the only reason why I must be making these bad decisions…..I wasn’t just going to accept pick a BBB company as a suggestion. In the end, I’d prefer to volunteer my time, because its not as valuable, which has its own implications, jz likes dancing on all the time….I love this site.
“Groove – I did warn you/cc about this (I’ve lived in/up there) That is the reason I came down here. people are better in the city/there are more better people”
revassal,
i know i was warned, i was blinded by the schools. still kind of blinded.
Its funny cause my run in’s with north shore people outside of crib chatter have been about the same. I know there are “real” people up there but havent ran into them yet. just keep getting the vibe that my family wont “fit in”.
my parents also made that ‘sacrifice'(jobs, schools); it can very well payoff and you’d enjoy it.
Joe Zekas says
“Do your research, except when buying a new construction house from one of my sponsors”
Ok wife just read this tread called me and is now pushing naperville even more cause of uppity north shore people. (we also had a run in a few weeks ago at northbrook court and uppity people)
Thanks Joe Z, Kimo, and PaulJ (partially JMM)
“Ok wife just read this tread called me and is now pushing naperville even more cause of uppity north shore people. (we also had a run in a few weeks ago at northbrook court and uppity people)”
Don’t worry, there’s plenty of uppity people in Naperville too.
“we also had a run in a few weeks ago at northbrook court and uppity people”
Now, this makes me think it’s mostly about you, Groove. Who the hell has a run-in at the mall except teenagers? It was in front of the Subway*, wasn’t it?
Even so, I’d welcome you folks on my block. And at the current rate, there might be something affordable by the time you decide to move.
*closest I could get to a Burger King.
barry’s right so find the best neighbors to the house/school district you like. If you like the north shore, highland park is a nice place, but you will meet ‘people’ that will think your the alien.
but BACK to the matter at hand.
‘YoChicago – the tip of an iceberg”
it really should be the whole iceberg(Yo) (not tip) and what you talk about(scurrying or whatnot) is the tip, which are the components of your iceberg(Yo). and Chicago re being the landmass that generates ice that makes the glacier which in turn generates the iceberg, which breaks up into….
” You know the reason i use an anonymous name on the intertubez?” – Groove77
I do know. Because you’d be fired if your boss focused on how you spend your days and how you justify doing so.
Sonies,
I studiously avoid political discussions – they make people even crazier than real estate discussions.
I’m guessing you’ve checked the public records and found my contribution to the Obama campaign, here’s the back-story.
Someone I do business with put the arm on me to buy a $1,000 ticket to a small-group fundraiser at a lavish River North penthouse.
My daughter had a friend who was seriously enamored of Obama. I cut a 2-for-1 deal so my daughter, who’d never attended an event like that, could go with her friend and meet Obama.
The records show me as an Obama contributor when the reality is that I was contributing to my daughter’s education and making a friend of hers happy.
The 2010 market? I can tell you what I hear from people ni the industry – that they’re (mostly) expecting a tough year, and are concerned about what will happen once the tax credis expire.
boooo
“I’m guessing you’ve checked the public records and found my contribution to the Obama campaign”
Possible. Also possible he’s just throwing out an all-purpose Sonies-style insult.
anon,
i used “run in” incorrectly, i was going for “run in” with uppity attitude, sorry. what happened was we were at the lego store and struck up a long convo with a lady and her 2 year old son. long story short her superiority attitude came through. at one point we saw her mannerisms and she locked shocked we could afford to shop at hanna anderson.
just was not liking the whole vibe she put out, but the store clerk at janie and jack made up for it 🙂
Joe Z,
wanna take a guess who gave me the web address to Crib Chatter when i was looking for info on a “intown” rental at One Museum Park? not to keep you in suspense but it was my Boss the CFO of the company who typed it in the search field on my work laptop.
“I do know. Because you’d be fired if your boss focused on how you spend your days and how you justify doing so”
Barry,
I am ashamed to say this because i will always rag on you for living in naperville, but i kind of liked our day there. people were nice (bland and kind of fake) but most were simple folk like me. we did not like the house at all and i was amazed that unless your close to downtown naper or by the river walk street didnt have mature trees and not that many planted either. didnt like that i was told by the realtor at the open house that naperville in the summer has watering bans. Dude lawn and gardening is the groove family pride thang.
“Don’t worry, there’s plenty of uppity people in Naperville too”
“we also had a run in a few weeks ago at northbrook court and uppity people”
I don’t like the uppity people but I do like their malls. It’s my favorite mall to let my son run around in when it’s subzero outside. Always weirdly empty and nice wood floors.
Revassel,
HP is sweet, dont know if i could swing home prices in the ravina/braeside district, i will look into that tonight.
“highland park is a nice place, but you will meet ‘people’ that will think your the alien”
P.S. sorry for all the night time postings groove is out of commision with a busted ankle from monday’s game. i am laid up on the couch and bored.
“I don’t like the uppity people but I do like their malls. It’s my favorite mall to let my son run around in when it’s subzero outside. Always weirdly empty and nice wood floors”
dooode DZ, isnt it crazy how that mall is empty? i love the “family restrooms” there. we go every other month, we have a freind who works there and he hooks us up with his employee discount at his store. we went this year a weekend before christmas and it was strangely empty and parking is always a breeze.
my wife love that store oilily
“Sonies on February 4th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
Joe Zekas says
“Do your research, except when buying a new construction house from one of my sponsors”
LMFAO BWHAHAHA! Honestly though I bet he’s made off better than 80% of the people he helped sell to in 05-09 though.
What a horrible thing I’ve done to home buyers – link to info from 100s of sources presenting varied views (including CC), show people tons of original pictures, bring them video interviews with a variety of industry views, walk them through homes with video tours, get back to them with credible answers to their questions, moderate the discussion to keep the loons at bay, out people in the industry commenting as consumers, invest heavily in a credible list of neighborhood boundaries and refer to actual rather than pretend neighborhoods in posts, refuse to allow the worst in the industry to advertise, enable actual buyers to deal more effectively with unresponsive developers, introduce people to 100s of Chicago neighborhoods, etc. etc. Worst of all, I’m upfront about our track record and who pays our bills.
I should have done the right thing, the CC way – just take info from the MLS, pirate copyrighted photos from others until called out on it and forced to cease, egg on the loons by presenting only info that reinforces their preconceptions, preserve my anonymity so that no one can analyze or weigh my credibility or my motives, allow a small group comprised mostly of bitter know-nothing pretenders to attack and chase away anyone who demonstrates solid knowledge, facilitate disgusting chatter about people’s taste in homes, etc. etc.
I should have realized that people can’t be trusted to make their own decisions about whether, where and what to buy, and respected those decisions. I should have shrilly and remorselessly mocked and attacked anyone who was making what I considered a poor decision, and ridiculed their taste in furnishings and their personal habits – especially if they’ve made more money than I have. I should have known that no one in the real estate industry knows anything or has anything worthwhile to say.
How terribly I’ve gone astray! I’ll just go away for a while and do penance for my sins.
Sounds like soemone is a bit jealous, here’s an idea Joe, don’t be such a dickhead to every single commenter on your site and you’ll get more traffic, and maybe, someday some business from it, because that’s the whole point of the site right? I know most realtors are super bored these days but I think you should reconsider your marketing strategy, because being a website nazi isn’t doing too much good for you it seems.
Sonies,
Every single commenter on my site?
You so totally don’t get it. A certain type of commenter drives away traffic rather than bringing it.
Google and links from other respectable sites drive traffic – not commenters.
Serious, affluent buyers don’t comment on real estate sites to any appreciable degree. Even a brief look around the Web would teach you that.
Do you really, truly believe you understand my business and my audience better than I do?
odd that northbrook court is a ghost town. Old orchard was that way 15 yrs ago, even more so with monkey wards turned into some weird close out store, but now it’s kind of jammed.
CH,
Skip Old Crapchard, Oakbrook mall is were its at.
Malls have got to be the most depressing places…
UH, now you’re just talking out of your a$$, again.
“Serious, affluent buyers don’t comment on real estate sites to any appreciable degree. Even a brief look around the Web would teach you that.”
these days I try to skip all malls, though I’ve never been to oakbrook and used to like nb court as a kid. (they had a sears that sold basketball hoops and had one set up low enough to dunk on)
Malls are the shyt (once you have small babies) as during bad weather its the only way to shop.
given oakbrook is an outdoor like Old Crapchard.
Russ,
you want to get really depressed go to golf mill mall.
“Malls have got to be the most depressing places”
Groove, you seem like an outgoing guy, I think you would find some good friends in Naperville. Looking at demographics, there is actually quite a bit more diversity there than the north shore suburbs. It seems to me that minorities in the high schools have a lot of pride in their ethnicity and my kids have had a diverse group of friends. Hip hop and steppers dance clubs share the basketball halftime shows with the poms team, for instance. In hindsight, I think it was a good place to raise children.
As far as subdivisions go, in general you’ll find the older northside subdivisions, those closer in to the downtown area, have more mature landscaping. The south side has newer subdivisions with bigger houses. I don’t think I’d like the commute to metra from the south side. We’re less than ten minutes from the station on the north side. Our subdivision is about 25 years old and now has lots of mature trees. One of my favorite subdivisions from garage sale experience is Maplebrook I and II. The homes were built in the 1960s, mature landscaping, very reasonably priced split levels and two stories. There is a lot less turnover there than in the newer subdivisions and the people seem friendlier. One thing you should do when you are seriously thinking of buying a place is to walk around and meet the neighbors. Its seems to me the people you get to know best are the parents of your kids friends, so its nice if there are plenty of kids the same age as yours living in your subdivision. Where we bought, our kids were younger than most and now they are older so I never got to know many of my neighbors very well.
The watering restrictions are even/odd days, never been a problem for us since we let our lawn go dormant in the summer. It may be a problem for our neighbors, most of whom have automatic sprinklers and beautiful grass courtesy of TrueGreen, but I haven’t heard any complaints. I remember when we moved in it seemed like everybody in the subdivision used white twinkle lights at Christmas and I had to check the covenants to make sure it wasn’t required. I felt compelled to put out colored lights just to assert our individuality.
Groove77: “I am ashamed to say this because i will always rag on you for living in naperville, but i kind of liked our day there. people were nice (bland and kind of fake) but most were simple folk like me. we did not like the house at all and i was amazed that unless your close to downtown naper or by the river walk street didnt have mature trees and not that many planted either. didnt like that i was told by the realtor at the open house that naperville in the summer has watering bans. Dude lawn and gardening is the groove family pride thang.”
Water tower place is the shyt, except for the taxes, the crowdedness, the people, and the fact that its a frickin mall.
ALso having grown up near naperville, I can say with full authority… “it sucks and you would absolutely hate it groove”
“Malls are the shyt (once you have small babies) as during bad weather its the only way to shop.”
Also, if you want some place to let your kids walk around in bad weather, it’s either a mall, museum or some indoor playland hell. I don’t mind Old Orchard so much in better weather. Oak Brook is a pain to get to for us.
Also, on Naperville, I’ve never spent much time there and seems like a place I would despise on principle, but I actually really like the couple of people I know living out there. Commute is a pain from what I hear, but good schools and much more affordable than many other places closer in. The mini-Chicago downtown, with all the outposts of Chicago restaurant, kinda cracks me up.
Juliana,
That exactly what we did, hit the open house for like 45 minutes, plop little guy in his stroller and took a hour walk around the hood, drove around, we ate lunch and dinner, and did some shopping off rt 59.
We wanted to get a feel of the whole thing. its was a bit nippy (i.e. cold as shyt) so we didnt run into anyone to strike up a convo in the hood. And the houses we found were cheaper in the newer subdivisions but in the “mature tree” are were higher in price.
i do have a question about the commute by car. I dont work downtown but is doind 88/290 really bad?
Thank you very much for your input
“One thing you should do when you are seriously thinking of buying a place is to walk around and meet the neighbors”
” I dont work downtown but is doind 88/290 really bad?”
You get the sun in your face in the morning, AND when you go home at night… its pretty awful, bumper to bumper for 45 minutes minimum each way… I would die if I ever had to drive in from the western burbs again.
Sonies,
“Water tower place is the shyt”
I love it too but hate paying for parking there so i only go once a year.
DZ,
Oak brook and Old Crapchard same time and distance for us but in nice weather we like boutique shopping outside 🙂
i am museum’d out thats all we did this winter.
“You get the sun in your face in the morning, AND when you go home at night… its pretty awful, bumper to bumper for 45 minutes minimum each way… I would die if I ever had to drive in from the western burbs again”
so what your saying is i will need to get a job in downers grove or schumberger?
“so what your saying is i will need to get a job in downers grove or schumberger?”
No, you have to stick to DG. 355/53 is extremely congested going north in the morning rush or south in the evening rush.
“Groove77 on February 5th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Malls are the shyt (once you have small babies) as during bad weather its the only way to shop.”
For me online is, more and more, becoming the only way to shop. And I live a block from water tower. I can see wanting to get out of the house with a young baby though, esp when it’s too cold for the park. they need to invent bars with a little kiddie area. too bad chuck e cheese stopped serving beer.
“they need to invent bars with a little kiddie area”
Great business idea! put that in Roscoe village guaranteed money maker.
I bought most of the major baby stuff online it save money (free shipping over $100). but like you said in the winter we want to get out of the house and with a 1 year old limited on places we can go and how we get there.
Netsdsgnr,
355 that bad too? isnt it like four lanes? looks like western burbs may be out of the question.
Sonies,
“You get the sun in your face in the morning, AND when you go home at night”
i will buy a convertible and get my tan stewie on!
in all seriousness is the commute by car to city borders that bad? would i be looking at a 1:30 in commute time one way?
depends where in naperville you live groove, sometimes it can take you a good 20 minutes without traffic just to get to I-88, but an hour commute one way by car to or from naperville is certainly not uncommon.
sonies the open house we went to was around 75th and rt 59. that house was a dud. but would like to get in the rober clow district (i think is just south of 75th) or naperville north district (the word north makes me assume its closer to 88?)
The bar with the kiddies area exists – Dave & Busters. Not too far from where you are, CH, on Clark + Maple. Works out great – especially as an alternative to the Pump It Up/Chuck E Cheese/Bubbles Academy circuit for kids’ b-day parties.
that’s like almost a half hour to rt. 59 if there’s any traffic groove… then to the loop you’re looking at least an hour during rushhour!!! route 59 is a giant congested road that used to be a nightmare for traffic before they built up a mini mall every square inch of the road from I-88 to 87th st. and its a nightmare now! plus that’s getting close to nearly plainfield/aurora isn’t it?
Sonies,
When i lived in naperville for three months i traveled 59 at off hours and off hours on a saturady for the open house. so traffic was very light on 88 and 59. but around lunch 59 was a tad rough i guess i should times that by two for rush hour.
I dont know if i can bare the commute, my commute now is only 30 min by car for the last 8 years i dont think i can hanndle tripple that time 🙂
“sonies the open house we went to was around 75th and rt 59. that house was a dud. but would like to get in the rober clow district (i think is just south of 75th) or naperville north district (the word north makes me assume its closer to 88?)”
I’m pretty close to that area – just east on 75th about two miles. Getting to any highway in the AM will take you 20-25 minutes. Getting downtown will take 1:30 or so most days. I commute by train; I take a slightly leisurely pace in order to save my sanity and it’s about 1:30 door to door for me.
Naperville has some elements that are great (schools, crime) but you sacrifice any sort of culture/character and convenience (traffic is the **WORST**).
If I was concerened about a family/education, it would be near the top of the list.
People are hit or miss as much as anywhere else, but there’s a pretty big demographic of uppity folks that it’s evident.
Barry i wouldnt be able to commute by train unless i added in a bus or two. i dont work downtown, i could buy a cheap beater “train car” and keep at the closet station to where i work. but that just adds parking and insurance to the monthly nut.
I may just move into norwood park until HS age and move to new trier then.
Groove, you should find yourself a nice bedroom community to put up the wife in, sort of like Ossining NY – a bedroom community where the wives and children play all day and the men work and play downtown, only to return for a few hours each night, if that. Now that’s the life 😉
“##Sonies on February 5th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
that’s like almost a half hour to rt. 59 if there’s any traffic groove… then to the loop you’re looking at least an hour during rushhour!!! route 59 is a giant congested road that used to be a nightmare for traffic before they built up a mini mall every square inch of the road from I-88 to 87th st. and its a nightmare now! plus that’s getting close to nearly plainfield/aurora isn’t it?”
HD,
sounds like fun, but not for me. i enjoy me home life (a lot strangely) thats why i like my short commute so i can get home 🙂
hey did you get your thank you from the anti-cruelty in the mail yet? got mine yesterday 🙂
“I may just move into norwood park until HS age and move to new trier then.”
Pretty sure you know this, but Oriole Park is the bargain. Cheaper houses and better school (although I think someone maybe you or anon said something about overcrowding but I could be getting confused). The Old Norwood circle area is really nice though. Main downside for us at least is minimal walkability. Also the commute is not that short. But better than Nville!!
“Oriole Park is the bargain”
100% agree, and i was the one surprised at the schools test scores when they have 40 kids per teacher.
The streets are prettier on norwood park and the homes are beautiful.
oriole has a bunch of attached wall brick georgians the remind me of housing projects.
walk ability in those areas are thae same as i am in now.
“route 59 is a giant congested road that used to be a nightmare for traffic before they built up a mini mall every square inch of the road from I-88 to 87th st. and its a nightmare now!”
Slight correction – the strip malls don’t end until about 135th St now.
I own a unit in this building with the same layout. Having looked at everything at comparable price points it was an easy choice. Many people in the building own their units 1-3 BR as second homes, so the price point is still reasonable for the demographic. It’s also very close to Northwestern Hospital, so very convenient for doctors.
For instance, 600 N Fairbanks looks trendy to some, but so did bell bottom jeans and large collars, fads look tacky after awhile. I’m all for modern, but an architect goes overboard in my opinion when the style becomes cold. 600 N Lake Shore is a perfect fusion of modern and warmth for me. The lobby of each building does a good job of representing what I’m talking about.
Looking at the decorating in the picture above, the owner of this unit was just looking to flip it. Having a different motive, the finishes, paint, chandeliers, furniture, etc in my unit make it look much, much better. A nice interior is not cheap though.
Whenever I visit Gold Coast now (my old home), I realize how old and vintage it looks (for the most part). Being close to a new movie theater, fox & obel, treasure island, dominicks, navy pier, etc, I’ve come to like Streeterville a lot. There are also plenty of places in Streeterville where even newer buildings can pop-up. The building also now has a mini-mart and is a few feet from a Lake Shore underpass which is great for summer walks to the beaches and Navy Pier.
Also, what’s up with all the cranky people in this forum? Just because this building is appreciating is no reason to be a hater.