Market Conditions: Chicago Sales Up 1.6% in December 2023: Have Sales Bottomed?
The Illinois Association of Realtors is out with the December 2023 data. Inventory remained near record lows but the year-over-year sales declines appear to be easing as sales were up in December.
The city of Chicago saw a 1.6 percent year-over-year home sales increase in December 2023 with 1,470 sales, up from 1,447 in December 2022. The median price of a home in the city of Chicago in December 2023 was $310,000, up 7.8 percent in December 2022 when it was $287,500.
Just 2 years ago, in 2021, December sales were the highest since 2005, one of the housing boom years. But that was before the Fed started raising interest rates.
- December 2004: 3719 sales and median price of $267,000
- December 2005: 2847 sales and median price of $283,000
- December 2006: 2241 sales and median price of $279,000
- December 2007: 1629 sales and median price of $287,000
- December 2008: 1263 sales and median price of $235,000
- December 2009: 1820 sales and median price of $208,000 (34% short/REO sales)
- December 2010: 1475 sales and median price of $166,000 (43% short/REO sales)
- December 2011: 1536 sales and median price of $156,000 (44% short/REO sales)
- December 2012: 1806 sales and median price of $185,000 (39.7% short/REO sales- according to Gary Lucido’s data)
- December 2013: 2137 sales and median price of $210,000
- December 2014: 2020 sales and median price of $228,000
- December 2015: 2077 sales and median price of $242,000
- December 2016: 1974 sales and median price of $260,000
- December 2017: 2058 sales and median price of $265,500
- December 2018: 1708 sales and median price of $251,500
- December 2019: 1892 sales and median price of $276,000
- December 2020: 2267 sales and median price of $305,000
- December 2021: 2422 sales and median price of $313,500
- December 2022: 1425 sales and median price of $288,000
- December 2023: 1470 sales and median price of $310,000
Annual home sales in Chicago fell 20.9% in 2023 to 22,400 from 28,306 properties.
“Although the housing market is continuing its trend of low sales and relatively high prices, our forecast is that sales will increase over the next three months,” said Dr. Daniel McMillen, professor of real estate and associate dean for faculty affairs at the University of Illinois-Chicago College of Business Administration. “Consumer confidence has increased significantly as interest rates and the rate of inflation have declined.”
Inventory statewide, and in Chicago, continued to decline.
Statewide, inventory dropped again, by 22.7% to 17,291 properties from 22,369 properties in 2022. Annual closed sales also dropped by 18.3% to 132,120 from 161,695 in 2022. You can’t buy what isn’t for sale.
In Chicago, inventory declined 27.3% to 4,171 properties from 5,739 properties last year. The decline has been dramatic over the last 4 years.
- December 2020: 8,254
- December 2021: 6,281
- December 2022: 5,739
- December 2023: 4,171
Days on the market in Chicago fell 12.8% to 34 days from 39 days a year ago.
“Steady closed sales and an increase in median sales price in December shows a commitment from buyers to purchase,” said Drussy Hernandez, president of the Chicago Association of REALTORS® and vice president of brokerage services for Coldwell Banker Realty in Chicago. “With the anticipation of lower interest rates, we hope to see this increased activity continue into 2024.”
The 30-year fixed mortgage rate averaged 6.82% in December 2023, down from 7.44% in November 2023 but up from 6.36% in the prior year.
With inventory still on the decline, and even in January, it remains near record lows, what will happen with the spring market?
Will there be bidding wars on attractive properties simply due to low inventory? Or will buyers sit it out this spring?
Annual and December home sales in Illinois go down as inventory remains meager [Illinois Association of Realtors Press Release, by Bill Kozar, January 19, 2024]
It’s SO tight out there. In any given week, there are just a handful of properties being listed in some GreenZone neighborhoods.
There are just 153 properties listed in Lincoln Park right now. And only 162 in Lakeview.
Even downtown neighborhoods have gotten tight, which they needed to do in order to support prices. There are only 278 properties listed in Streeterville, an incredibly dense neighborhood.
Even the loop has low inventory. Just 235 properties which includes Printers Row and Lakeshore East.
I’m a renter and have been interested in buying a house for the past 2 years or so. I just can’t make the math work at these interest rates when my rent is so much significantly lower than a comparable condo. Buy v Rent for me won’t mathematically make sense until rates are around 4.5%, and that’s still banking on some generous appreciation. From my anecdotal observation, I think there’s a huge amount of tension in the market right now- sellers are holding on in anticipation of lower rates and a bidding war but I think the buyers who could have bought are either now priced out or have done the math themselves and realized renting is the way to go and are holding out for the long term.
I personally don’t believe interest rates will be going down in a meaningful way anytime soon, and I’m holding out for the long term to wait until the time and circumstances are right for me. I’m too nervous to bank on appreciation when the leverage costs are so high at the moment, and with Chicago’s historically low condo appreciation in general, it seems like a risky bet to make. So I think things are going to continue in this holding pattern until a bigger macroeconomic event happens OR life happens and people are forced to sell/move. Everyone hoping for lower interest rates may eventually just give up.
As of Jan 2023, there were 7,200 active real estate agents in the city limits of Chicago. How on Earth are these people making a living with 4171 active listing and only 1470 sales in the past month???
Also, can you imagine being a Dec 2021 Chicago real estate buyer and STILL being under water on your homes price, not even taking into account the 6% in fees your going to pay to sell your house and the 8% inflation that has occurred in that time? Man is Chicago real estate struggling.
Mike, 20% of the agents do 80% of the business. There are a lot of part timers who close only 1 transaction a year.
So from 2004 to 2023, Chicago real estate prices have risen 16% and sales have dropped 60%. Wow. BLS inflation numbers show $1 in 2004 = $1.61 in 2023 and the average prices of homes nationwide increased from $256 to $492. That’s +92%. Just huge losses all around for Chicago homeowners.
Anyway, it is clear to me that no one wants to live in downtown Chicago.
Do you realize that people that bought at 55 e erie or 21 e superior are now selling at lower prices than when they bought from the builder 20 years ago. That doesn’t even count inflation!
Then look at 600 lake shore, 225 n columbus, and other similar lux buildings and it is the same story.
What a nightmare. I can’t believe anyone would choose a condo over apt if they had to live in Chicago.
“Anyway, it is clear to me that no one wants to live in downtown Chicago.”
Yep, no one wants to live in downtown Chicago (rolls eyes.)
“Do you realize that people that bought at 55 e erie or 21 e superior are now selling at lower prices than when they bought from the builder 20 years ago. That doesn’t even count inflation!”
Not everyone. 20 years ago was the housing bubble so those buyers really got hammered. People don’t realize how bad the bubble was in Chicago’s condo market.
Those making the most on Chicago real estate bought after the bust in 2011-2012, a single family home, or a condo in the West Loop or Logan Square.
“As of Jan 2023, there were 7,200 active real estate agents in the city limits of Chicago. How on Earth are these people making a living with 4171 active listing and only 1470 sales in the past month???”
What Russ said. Housing market has been in a recession for 2 years now. Real estate agents, mortgage brokers, appraisers, title people, stagers, photographers, attorneys have all been hit hard. Many have left the industry. Only the strong have survived.
In real estate, a huge percentage of agents are part-time. They get the license so they can sell real estate for friends, family or for their own transaction. With sales down this much, only the full-time agents are surviving.
“Man is Chicago real estate struggling.”
But it’s not Mike HG. You can keep thinking it is, but that doesn’t make it so.
Chicago is one of the few markets that is actually still seeing rising prices nationwide. Most of the Midwest is, though, and that’s due to our affordability. We never had the bubble in 2020-2021 so we don’t have the bust.
For example, in some cities in Florida, inventory has been rising quickly and is now back over 2019 levels. But sales are down 20%+. This has put pressure on prices so home prices are falling. But after gains of 40%+ that would be normal. It’s just the flipper/investors who will be caught (or anyone who doesn’t stay long enough to ride it out).
In Chicago, as I’ve said many, many times, downtown prices have lagged the most, while the neighborhoods have been red hot. Downtown was the epicenter of both the pandemic and then the BLM protests. Silent Generation and Baby Boomers moved en mass out of the established downtown neighborhoods like the Gold Coast. They continue to “turn over” to the next generations. This will take time. Meanwhile, the West Loop/Fulton Market has eclipsed neighborhoods like River North as the most desirable place to live for those under 40. It’s one of the hottest neighborhoods in America but they’re mostly building apartments there, not condos.
Downtown inventory is finally being absorbed so it should be stabilizing soon outside of a dozen luxury buildings where there are still too many units available (Tribune, Palmolive, St Regis, to name three).
Neighborhoods have virtually no inventory on the market at some price points. I’ve never seen these market conditions in Chicago before. It’s unclear how long it will last or how low the inventory will go. But owners are not willing to sell as long as they have those super low mortgage rates.
“I can’t believe anyone would choose a condo over apt if they had to live in Chicago.”
In times of high inflation, having a fixed rate mortgage payment is actually a benefit to you. Americans are lucky they can lock in for 30 years. Those poor Canadians. How do they manage?
Or you could just buy a property in any other city in the US and see the value of your property double. Then in your old age, you can leave a paid off high value property to your children or if you are a single cat lady, you could retire early and reverse mortgage the thing and live off the money for an extended period of time.
Also, thinking that the riots, other crime, taxes, and other negatives are just one time things is seriously naive. That stuff will continue and even accelerate in Chicago.
…and the weather…and the traffic…and the roads…and the density…and the direction the city is heading in with the mayor and the city council. It was just too much. Life is so much better now.
“…and the weather…and the traffic…and the roads…and the density…and the direction the city is heading in with the mayor and the city council. It was just too much. Life is so much better now.”
Big cities aren’t for everyone. Or they’ve lived in one, done that, and now want something else. I have friends who lived for 20 years in Manhattan. Through their 20s and 30s. Just couldn’t take it anymore in their 40s and left.
Big cities have big city problems. People on top of people. Traffic. Crime.
But they also have endless energy, every type of food imaginable, arts, ambition and creativity.
“Or you could just buy a property in any other city in the US and see the value of your property double. Then in your old age, you can leave a paid off high value property to your children or if you are a single cat lady, you could retire early and reverse mortgage the thing and live off the money for an extended period of time.”
You do know that your property has doubled in many places in Chicago, and the suburbs, right?
Also, Chicago, and other Midwest cities, are ideal locations to actually retire. Your condo is paid off. You have senior taxes. You don’t have to worry about hurricanes.
“Also, thinking that the riots, other crime, taxes, and other negatives are just one time things is seriously naive. That stuff will continue and even accelerate in Chicago.”
These things accelerating in Miami and other cities too. Chicago is actually really well situated for climate change as well. The entire Midwest, really.
I’m sorry you are stuck in Florida Stacy. But Chicago will always be here for you. Your home has doubled in value. Now’s the time to sell and move back to the Midwest.
“Big cities have big city problems.”
Yeah, I’ve been thinking about this over the last year. I’ve decided that the real problem is that these cities (even the small ones around me) are convinced that they need to solve all of people’s problems. So they create public transportation systems and affordable housing and then they want to open their own grocery stores in supposed food deserts and then they try to create jobs and then they try to stop gentrification and then they try to invest in “disinvested communities” and then they decide that day care is too expensive and then they try to fix the schools while the parents aren’t forcing their kids to go to school in the first place. So they end up creating an entire group of people totally dependent on the government and they raise costs for everyone who’s not dependent on the government.
Not for me.
So you’re against public transportation Gary?
This is one of the big problems for the emerging cities in the south and southeast, in my opinion. They don’t even have good bus systems and you can forget light rail. I’m encouraged that Charlotte is adding some light rail, however. Let’s hope some other cities learn from this example. But Charlotte could be doing a LOT more. Problem is, it’s just so darn spread out. But if Los Angeles can build miles of subways, then Charlotte and Atlanta can too.
I’m against government subsidies for things that users can pay for. The CTA probably loses $1 B per year. So do you mean to tell me that the CTA’s value to users is less than the cost to operate it? If that’s really true then it shouldn’t exist.
I have options. I don’t have to pay for services for other people. And I’m not alone.
“I’m against government subsidies for things that users can pay for.”
This eliminates a LOT of things, right? There shouldn’t be airplane travel into most secondary cities because there are definitely government subsidies there. I’m assuming you’re against the electric vehicle subsidies.
Yeah, I’m against all subsidies. It allocates resources to places where the value is less than the cost and it causes people to live in ways that other people end up paying for. You wouldn’t necessarily eliminate services like air travel but prices would reflect the true cost.
“You wouldn’t necessarily eliminate services like air travel but prices would reflect the true cost.”
But you WOULD eliminate it. Airlines literally are paid by the government to fly to certain cities. Without those subsidies, they have said they wouldn’t allocate resources there. They can never charge enough for the tickets to cover their costs. US government has to make sure there is air travel to certain cities though.
Same thing with Amtrak. It is subsidized on its long distance routes by taxpayers. Congressmen in those districts in, say, Montana or Colorado, won’t allow the routes to be discontinued because trains still bring business to those smaller towns.
So then the cost of these services is greater than their value. They shouldn’t exist. And, yes, it might be really hard to live in those places but if life is hard enough then those towns shouldn’t exist.
But there are plenty of places that get by fine without easy access to air travel or Amtrak. I’ve lived my entire life and have only ridden Amtrak 2 or 3 times.
“Same thing with Amtrak. It is subsidized on its long distance routes by taxpayers. Congressmen in those districts in, say, Montana or Colorado, won’t allow the routes to be discontinued because trains still bring business to those smaller towns.”
Let me know what business Amtrak brings to Malta, MT
“The CTA probably loses $1 B per year.”
I think that once can actually look this up, rather than just say “probably”.
US airlines “probably” shouldn’t exist, if take a really long view of profitability and direct/implied government subsidies.
“Let me know what business Amtrak brings to Malta, MT”
Wherever there is an Amtrak station, it brings business and jobs. In some rural areas, if they lose Amtrak service, they are virtually cut off from the rest of the world. This is why many rural congressmen blocked Amtrak’s move to end the Southwest Chief service. Amtrak started putting its oldest railcars on that line as punishment but that stopped a few years ago. Now, thanks to the infrastructure bill and $60 billion, Amtrak is rededicating itself to the long distance routes.
Here’s a quote from Montana:
“The Empire Builder is an asset to small business owners and working folks along the Hi-Line who rely on daily service to sustain their businesses and support their families. I am proud to have worked with Amtrak to restore full Empire Builder service and I will keep fighting to make sure that passengers from rural America have access to the reliable and quality service they deserve. These long-distance upgrades are a step in the right direction,” said Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont.
“But there are plenty of places that get by fine without easy access to air travel or Amtrak. I’ve lived my entire life and have only ridden Amtrak 2 or 3 times.”
If you want to stay poor, then sure. It’s quite clear that rails and airports are huge economic drivers for an area’s economy. This is the reason the rural areas and smaller cities have fallen behind.
For further info on why even air service is vital, look at what is happening in St Louis and the business community pressing for more German non-stop flights. Otherwise, global businesses just won’t stay there if you can’t even fly to Munich or London without going to Chicago first. Might as well move the business to Chicago.
“I’ve lived my entire life and have only ridden Amtrak 2 or 3 times.”
Things have changed. Amtrak regional service out of Chicago is huge now. I chalk it up to UBER/Lyft which has made it easy to take Amtrak to, say, Champaign or Springfield, and then just uber to a hotel or to your dorm.
“I think that once can actually look this up, rather than just say “probably”.
Of course if you doubt my number you could look it up also. I’m making a comment on a blog, not writing a research paper. I’ve seen numbers before of around $1 B. I just looked it up and it’s around $1.5 B of public/ government funding. What a waste.
“The Empire Builder is an asset to small business owners and working folks along the Hi-Line who rely on daily service to sustain their businesses and support their families”
Like I said above…once you start these programs you create a dependent class of people. If Amtrak had never existed or had priced to reflect the true costs you would not have all these folks addicted to government handouts.
“If you want to stay poor, then sure. It’s quite clear that rails and airports are huge economic drivers for an area’s economy. This is the reason the rural areas and smaller cities have fallen behind.”
Is the cost greater than the benefit or not? If if is then stop the insanity. If not, then pay for the cost with the benefits.
The problem is that the costs are well known but apparently the benefits are not because people always talk about the benefits in abstract terms like “huge economic drivers”. Really? Then the beneficiaries of that huge driver should be able to afford prices that reflect the cost at a minimum.
“Things have changed. Amtrak regional service out of Chicago is huge now. I chalk it up to UBER/Lyft which has made it easy to take Amtrak to, say, Champaign or Springfield, and then just uber to a hotel or to your dorm.”
If I needed to make that trip I would just drive. Don’t like keeping to someone else’s schedule if I don’t have to and then I have my car at the other end.
Needed to go to St. Louis like 15 or 20 years ago. For some reason decided to take Amtrak. There was like an 8 hour delay, sitting on the train. Then, coming back my cousin had to use his skills as a former fighter pilot to get me to the train in time.
“more German non-stop flights” from STL
“global businesses just won’t stay there if you can’t even fly to Munich or London”
Number of weekly nonstops from STL to London-area airports = ZERO
Number of weekly nonstops from STL to MUC = ZERO
https://www.flystl.com/flights-and-airlines/non-stop-service
Total weekly nonstops from STL to any European airport = 3, all to FRA.
Established in Jun-22, first regualrly scheduled flights from STL to europe since *2003*. All of the global businesses must have left after 19 years.
Total other international nonstop destinations = 4, Cancun, Punta Cana, Montego Bay and Toronto. Also San Juan.
“Wherever there is an Amtrak station, it brings business and jobs. In some rural areas, if they lose Amtrak service, they are virtually cut off from the rest of the world. This is why many rural congressmen blocked Amtrak’s move to end the Southwest Chief service. Amtrak started putting its oldest railcars on that line as punishment but that stopped a few years ago. Now, thanks to the infrastructure bill and $60 billion, Amtrak is rededicating itself to the long distance routes.
Here’s a quote from Montana:
“The Empire Builder is an asset to small business owners and working folks along the Hi-Line who rely on daily service to sustain their businesses and support their families. I am proud to have worked with Amtrak to restore full Empire Builder service and I will keep fighting to make sure that passengers from rural America have access to the reliable and quality service they deserve. These long-distance upgrades are a step in the right direction,” said Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont.”
Thats a lot of words to say you are talking out your ass again
““more German non-stop flights” from STL
“global businesses just won’t stay there if you can’t even fly to Munich or London”
Number of weekly nonstops from STL to London-area airports = ZERO
Number of weekly nonstops from STL to MUC = ZERO
https://www.flystl.com/flights-and-airlines/non-stop-service
Total weekly nonstops from STL to any European airport = 3, all to FRA.
Established in Jun-22, first regualrly scheduled flights from STL to europe since *2003*. All of the global businesses must have left after 19 years.”
LOL
Sabrina in a nutshell
“Thats a lot of words to say you are talking out your ass again”
It’s sad that so many people don’t understand what drives economic growth. Transportation is huge. Many small towns wouldn’t survive without an airport or Amtrak.
Yep. This is why St Louis is struggling. How can you have an international business without any flights to Europe? Why would you stay there as a business? Employees have to go to Chicago and then on. What a pain.
Sorry, it’s not Munich. It’s Frankfurt. And I think they’re adding more days a week now due to demand. So it will be 5 days a week.
Yes, the global companies HAVE left St Louis. But the business community is desperate. They are also spending billions on a new airport terminal with the hopes of adding more international flights. Could desperately need London.
Similar for cities like New Orleans. British Airways added non-stops a few years ago to London and it’s been a huge economic driver for the city. Nashville also building a new international terminal as there have been nonstops from London and other European cities added.
It’s just such a huge driver. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just foolish. Why do you think the Chinese have built multiple airports in many of their biggest cities?
Next destination must be to South America. Bunge’s North American headquarters is in St Louis. They have a ton of business in South America. Ag-Tech is big business and St Louis should be the epicenter. Shouldn’t lose those jobs to Chicago.
https://www.stlpr.org/economy-business/2022-07-19/st-louis-new-non-stop-flight-to-frankfurt-has-some-asking-where-next
“Most agriculture companies that are global companies, they have their plans for different regions,” he said. “A lot of them are now putting special teams for Brazil alone just because of the growth it’s going to experience.”
On top of this, various places in the Midwest like St. Louis are competing to attract talent and companies focused on ag tech, Hirsch said.
St. Louis can capitalize as Brazilian companies look to expand their operations in the U.S., Platon said. But it’s much more difficult without having a direct flight, he said.
“They don’t know much about Missouri,” Platon said. “But it makes a lot of sense when you’re expanding your business overseas to go to a region and a city with low cost of doing business, low cost of living and an excellent logistical hub.”
It takes at least two flights and nearly a full day of travel to get from St. Louis to Brazil or Argentina, he said. The closest direct flight leaves from Chicago.
“If I needed to make that trip I would just drive. Don’t like keeping to someone else’s schedule if I don’t have to and then I have my car at the other end.”
There are 7 trips a day from Chicago to Milwaukee now. It’s such a great service.
They are really expanding out east in regional rail, especially Virginia.
Hilarious that you are discussing going to St Louis on Amtrak 20 years ago. Lol. That regional service is Amtrak’s most successful route nationwide. Train is sold out on most weekends. They added the better tracks and can now go over 110 mph on certain stretches. They also got the new Siemens cars so it’s just a great ride.
Regional service is key. No “sitting on the train” because they go back and forth and aren’t on the long distance line. Schedule is set baring any mechanical or weather issues.
I think the younger generations will be big Amtrak users as the railcars are upgraded and the regional service improves. But Gary would have us get rid of it all because it needs to be subsidized on the long distance routes. Regional routes are profitable.
“Is the cost greater than the benefit or not? If if is then stop the insanity. If not, then pay for the cost with the benefits.”
Will rolling out broadband to the rural communities be greater than the cost which is billions of dollars? Who knows. But without it, the rural areas will keep sinking and poverty will rise.
“If Amtrak had never existed or had priced to reflect the true costs you would not have all these folks addicted to government handouts.”
True. Would never have those small towns. Would have been abandoned long ago as is obvious from the parts of the country where there isn’t any Amtrak going through their town.
On this same discussion, why did we build the national highway network Gary? According to you, the locals should have to pay for that highway. It shouldn’t be subsidized by the federal government. Cost billions. Did the benefits ever outweigh the costs?
“It’s sad that so many people don’t understand what drives economic growth. Transportation is huge. Many small towns wouldn’t survive without an airport or Amtrak.”
LOL – then please tell me how Amtrack affects the economy in Malta, MT?
“On this same discussion, why did we build the national highway network Gary? According to you, the locals should have to pay for that highway. It shouldn’t be subsidized by the federal government. Cost billions. Did the benefits ever outweigh the costs?”
National Defense, duh
What JohnnyU just said. But the highways could and should be paid for 100% by gasoline taxes. The fact that the gas tax hasn’t gone up in a gazillion years shows you just how spineless congress is. And the fact that gas taxes are used to pay for public transportation shows just how screwed up things are.
Sabrina, you keep talking about how great and profitable Amtrak is for thriving cities. Let’s talk about places where it’s not profitable. There must be little value in those places. Why are these cities still here? Apparently they don’t really need Amtrak: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_cities_in_the_United_States_lacking_inter-city_rail_service
“I personally don’t believe interest rates will be going down in a meaningful way anytime soon,”
“Everyone hoping for lower interest rates may eventually just give up.”
They will be coming down but not for the reason you hope: recession. The problem with real estate is the extensive government involvement in backstopping the financing & subsidizing the interest rate paid means the least financially responsible person sets the pricing on the margins, and most don’t have jobs that are immune from downturns.
So yes while I expect rates to go down in the future, it may not be some feeding frenzy of transactions if its for the reason it usually is: a souring macro outlook.
The second most indebted company in the world was just ordered into liquidate in a Hong Kong court yesterday. I wish we could say what happens in China stays in China but the past few years have reminded us all it’s quite the contrary.
“I wish we could say what happens in China stays in China but the past few years have reminded us all it’s quite the contrary.”
We are the least connected to that economy, actually. Are our young people sitting with a 20% unemployment rate because theirs are?
But the bears have to be finding some reason for the US to go down.
“There must be little value in those places. Why are these cities still here? Apparently they don’t really need Amtrak:”
First: Amtrak service is determined by the STATE. If that STATE doesn’t want it, they don’t have it (see Indiana which cancelled its support of the Chicago to Indianapolis regional route, so it no longer exists. What a fail.)
Second: there’s massive money in the infrastructure bill because this White House supports train travel so we’ll finally have Amtrak expansion in states that grab the money. That means regional service in Ohio, where NONE exists. Also may get Atlanta to Nashville (finally). At least Florida has figured out that rail travel actually adds to the economy. Love the Brightline expansion.
“LOL – then please tell me how Amtrack affects the economy in Malta, MT?”
I don’t know Malta. But it’s going to have a huge impact on Rockford when service is resumed from Chicago in 2027. It will mean hotels, restaurants, apartments, businesses and jobs, jobs, jobs.
I really hope they extend that line out to Galena and then on to Davenport and the Quad Cities. It’s gone there before and needs to go there again.
“I don’t know Malta. But it’s going to have a huge impact on Rockford when service is resumed from Chicago in 2027. It will mean hotels, restaurants, apartments, businesses and jobs, jobs, jobs.”
bUT iTs oN tHe eMPiRe BuiLDeR wITh dAIlY seRVice. Surely you can provide some info as you stated that and Amtrack station means jerbs
LOL Rockford.
“I really hope they extend that line out to Galena and then on to Davenport and the Quad Cities. It’s gone there before and needs to go there again.”
1 Davenport is one of the Quad cities.
2 Your’re got going to hit Galena/Dubuque and then go to the Quad cities on the same line. LDo you even live in Illinois?
You have an entirely unsober view of rail travel in the US
Sabrina,
You’re ignoring the key points:
1) I provided a list of cities that are doing fine without Amtrak. Clearly you don’t need Amtrak to survive.
2) If there are these huge economic benefits to Amtrak then why aren’t the recipients of those benefits willing to pay the ticket price that covers the costs of the service? The only possible answer is that the costs outweigh the benefits.
“You’re going to hit Galena/Dubuque and then go to the Quad cities on the same line[?]”
This is a very good question. There isn’t an even vaguely direct RR link from Galena to QC without crossing into Iowa first–which means running north to Dubuque, before heading south.
Or, all new trackage.
“This is a very good question. There isn’t an even vaguely direct RR link from Galena to QC without crossing into Iowa first–which means running north to Dubuque, before heading south.
Or, all new trackage.”
Could you imaging just sitting in your railcar with your fellow Karens, sipping on your all you can drink Prosecco, leaving the Driftless area following the mighty Mississippi down to the Quad cities? Sounds fabulous Could only be made better if you spent the morning shopping in picturesque Downtown Rockford
– Sabrina probably
Highways were built in the 50s and 60s “for defense,” ask Eisenhower. Given that the cash flow from the use of a bomb is highly negative, clearly mercantilism is too narrow an analysis to use in evaluating the worth of the interstate highway system. So, no, gasoline taxes and direct tolls should not be the only revenue sources for highways. That conclusion is buttressed by the fact that the constitution makes the construction of post roads (for the delivery of mail) a federal duty, such non-economic factors as political cohesion are also to be included in determining the value of benefits.
The concept of externalities is agnostic to whether it is applied to costs (usually) or to benefits. I believe car transportation is highly subsidized as well (remember to include a portion of defense costs in safeguarding our oil supplies in your evaluation).
Gary’s maxim — no subsidies — is correct, but his implementation analysis is flawed. We subsidize home ownership (a subject near and dear to our hearts) to foster political engagement, which we hold to be a social benefit. I don’t know how that plays out economically, though.
Here endeth the lesson.
“such non-economic factors as political cohesion”
“I’ve got mine, fuck you” and “if I can’t get mine, fuck all of ‘those people’ so they can’t get theirs” aren’t positive national goals?
huh.
“Lightfoot thought that black teens deserved to steal Gucci items, because they never could have them any other way.”
Please provide your evidence of this. Making shit up again, along with the rest of your bigoted nonsense.
Johnc,
One could argue that you can put a value on national defense in that it preserves the entire net worth of the country but let’s not dwell on that. At this point our roads and highways are mostly used for transportation and there is no reason they can’t be fully funded by the users. Car transportation should not be subsidized. The fact that it is should not be used as an excuse to expand government overreach.
The postal clause gives a power to congress, not a duty. And it doesn’t say anything about how extensive the service should be or how it should be paid for.
“Could you imaging just sitting in your railcar with your fellow Karens, sipping on your all you can drink Prosecco, leaving the Driftless area following the mighty Mississippi down to the Quad cities? Sounds fabulous Could only be made better if you spent the morning shopping in picturesque Downtown Rockford”
Says the man who doesn’t live in the state of Illinois and hasn’t for DECADES.
Yet somehow people are taking Amtrak to…Quincy, Illinois. When JohnnyU would tell you that no one who is sophisticated would EVER want to travel to the Mississippi river cities.
Life is passing by all you bitter people who don’t see the opportunities out there. It must suck to wake up every day hating on the world like you all do.
“This is a very good question. There isn’t an even vaguely direct RR link from Galena to QC without crossing into Iowa first–which means running north to Dubuque, before heading south.”
Yes, Iowa is adding rail too. Imagine that?
And Missouri too.
They enter into agreements with neighboring states. Let’s get it from Galena into Iowa. Huge economic driver for those regions.
“Clearly you don’t need Amtrak to survive.”
Gary, I’m talking about the small towns. Those are the ones that the congressmen are fighting for because without Amtrak, there wouldn’t be a city there. And this is clear across large parts of the rural areas, especially of the west. Many of those towns have been abandoned.
“If there are these huge economic benefits to Amtrak then why aren’t the recipients of those benefits willing to pay the ticket price that covers the costs of the service?”
Yes, indeed, you have NOT taken Amtrak in a LONG time. Cost you $1000 to take Amtrak sleeper car across the country. Lol.
But that doesn’t mean it covers the costs of that long distance train. Only the regional trains are profitable. Those sell out. Those are transportation, not a vacation. They do surge pricing on those now so good luck getting a “cheap” last minute ticket. Like I said, the airlines are paid to fly into many smaller cities that aren’t profitable. This is true of Amtrak as well.
We, as a society, have decided that we need service by air and rails to some areas. It’s also why rural hospitals are subsidized in many states. They don’t make money either. Should there not be a hospital there then? Shouldn’t the locals pay more to have an ER and some doctors? That would be your argument Gary but for many of us, that’s not the society we want to live in.
Same with the post office. Why do we deliver mail to rural communities?
“bUT iTs oN tHe eMPiRe BuiLDeR wITh dAIlY seRVice. Surely you can provide some info as you stated that and Amtrack station means jerbs”
I don’t know that route.
“You have an entirely unsober view of rail travel in the US”
Nope. Amtrak is adding a second regional service from Minnesota to Chicago which will really provide a boost to the Mississippi river cities along that line. Regional service is where it’s at. That provides actual transportation, but not vacation. Vacation has a place but there’s money to be made on all the regional routes.
A little birdie has told me that a loft which came on the market recently, went under contract within 12 hours over full price. At all cash. They didn’t even wait for multiple offers even though some would have come in.
If you have a property that is renovated, now is the time to sell. Anywhere in the city. There are only 140 properties on the market in Lake View and plenty of people are looking. People have jobs. They’re making good salaries. Yes, they can afford the $500,000 2/2 on two professional salaries with 7% mortgage rates.
There is a rule of reason, Gary. Just as one soldier with a musket and one sailor with a dinghy isn’t providing for defense, the power to provide postal roads carries a duty to meaningfully so provide.
The fact that communication per se was valued — with no discussion of economic profit to mitigate the duty — shows that profit itself is not the measure of what government “should “ do.
We don’t get to keep Wyoming only when it is profitable for us to do so.
“Says the man who doesn’t live in the state of Illinois and hasn’t for DECADES.”
Am I wrong?
“Yet somehow people are taking Amtrak to…Quincy, Illinois. When JohnnyU would tell you that no one who is sophisticated would EVER want to travel to the Mississippi river cities.”
Since you are the Queen of the rails, tell us the ridership to Quincy?
I’d be willing to bet I’ve spent more time along the Mississippi, so you might want to slow your roll drunky
The sophistication is up for debate
“Life is passing by all you bitter people who don’t see the opportunities out there. It must suck to wake up every day hating on the world like you all do.”
Lots of projection
So sad
“Yes, Iowa is adding rail too. Imagine that?
And Missouri too.
They enter into agreements with neighboring states. Let’s get it from Galena into Iowa. Huge economic driver for those regions.”
Iowa is waiting for Federal funding.
You know of a state that turns down fed money?
“Nope. Amtrak is adding a second regional service from Minnesota to Chicago which will really provide a boost to the Mississippi river cities along that line. Regional service is where it’s at. That provides actual transportation, but not vacation. Vacation has a place but there’s money to be made on all the regional routes.”
You always neglect to note that Amtrack doesnt own the rails. Any conflict with freight means you are waiting and often its not a minor inconvenience
Winona is a nice town, dont see the demand
You have a link to adding a 2nd train?
“I don’t know that route.”
Yet that didnt stop you from making absolute statements
Shocking
“Yet that didnt stop you from making absolute statements”
Because it’s common knowledge and understanding that Amtrak is an economic driver in small, rural towns that service it?
It’s so sad how out of touch you are. America is actually building new rail routes for the first time in decades.
“You always neglect to note that Amtrack doesnt own the rails. Any conflict with freight means you are waiting and often its not a minor inconvenience”
Again, please get into this century. I beg of you. Yes, Amtrak doesn’t own the rails. It has always had to work with its partners. How do you think rail is being extended to Rockford? (By the way, it won’t be Amtrak running that route, but Metra, which I think is a mistake. But Amtrak can always take over later if the Galena extension happens.)
And yes, it CAN, and DOES, work around the freight so it can add a second train. Amtrak has on-time arrival data just like the airlines. You can go see what happens with each of the routes.
The second train is going to be huge for cities like the Dells and LaCrosse because it’s legit regional service and will mostly be on time. That means people can use it for legit transportation.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/second-train-between-twin-cities-and-chicago-slated-to-begin-in-2024/
“You know of a state that turns down fed money?”
Indiana has turned against the rails, to its detriment. Although Northern Indiana managed to get the route from Notre Dame to Chicago fixed which will bring big economic advantages (see Michigan City for an example). Texas also has very little rail infrastructure and should have had regional service to Austin-Dallas-Houston and San Antonio 20 years ago.
But in 2024, there is a $1 trillion infrastructure bill and the biggest surge of money into Amtrak in 50 years. Yes, the states should be participating. But will they? It’s all up to their leadership. And if that leadership is people like you, JohnnyU, and Gary, who doesn’t believe in train travel, or any government subsidies for it, then it won’t happen.
“Since you are the Queen of the rails, tell us the ridership to Quincy?”
It’s large enough that Amtrak has kept that route active for years. Surprise!
“And yes, it CAN, and DOES, work around the freight so it can add a second train. Amtrak has on-time arrival data just like the airlines. You can go see what happens with each of the routes.”
Lies
The link you provided even notes this. Talk to someone thats been stuck on the train due to Freight priority and then post
The rest is a lot of wishful thinking
“I’d be willing to bet I’ve spent more time along the Mississippi, so you might want to slow your roll drunky”
Yep. Agreed 100%. Because I live in Chicago which is on the Chicago River and Lake Michigan.
“It’s large enough that Amtrak has kept that route active for years. Surprise!”
So you dont know.
You also dont know how much the line is being subsidized
“Yep. Agreed 100%. Because I live in Chicago which is on the Chicago River and Lake Michigan.”
Yet you are a self proclaimed expert
Interesting…
“Yet you are a self proclaimed expert”
On the Mississippi River? Nope. But on Amtrak? Yep.
Big hub for Amtrak here in Chicago. One of the biggest in the country. How do you know I don’t work for Amtrak?
“You also dont know how much the line is being subsidized”
Amtrak is a private corporation but most of its data is public information given how dependent it is on funding from the Dept of Transportation. It publishes passenger data on its routes every year, just like the airlines do.
Illinois has been one of the leaders, along with Virginia, in rail expansion in the last 10 years. And now there is a governor in Pritzker, who is also a big fan. He was behind the push to get the Rockford expansion and then actually got the money from the Feds and made the agreement with Union Pacific. Extension to Galena is the next obvious expansion but that probably won’t happen until 2030-2034 time period.
Pritzker is trying to get the Indianapolis regional service back again but Indiana isn’t cooperating. But hopefully he can get Chicago-Cincinnati soon. Ohio is ready to dive in. It will be a huge driver for them to have regional Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland service. People shouldn’t be driving between those cities.
“The link you provided even notes this. Talk to someone thats been stuck on the train due to Freight priority and then post”
Uh…no the link certainly does NOT “note” this. It says that the east route is often delayed because it leaves from Seattle and, yes, going across the country those routes often DO get delayed. By hours. Everyone who has taken Amtrak cross country knows this. That’s why it’s a vacation, not transportation.
That is exactly what the regional service eliminates. It leaves from St Paul and goes to Chicago and then back again. You don’t have to be concerned that an avalanche in Idaho has delayed the train by 5 hours. Lol. Or an earthquake in Seattle means the train won’t be coming at all.
This is a gamechanger for Amtrak. Most older Americans only have experience riding the cross country routes which are vacations, not transportation, and this frustrated them because they were trying to use it as transportation. But if you take the regional routes, you’ll see that it certainly competes favorably with air travel and is a much nicer, and, faster, ride than flying is as it takes you from city center to city center.
“Amtrak is a private corporation but most of its data is public information given how dependent it is on funding from the Dept of Transportation. It publishes passenger data on its routes every year, just like the airlines do.
Illinois has been one of the leaders, along with Virginia, in rail expansion in the last 10 years. And now there is a governor in Pritzker, who is also a big fan. He was behind the push to get the Rockford expansion and then actually got the money from the Feds and made the agreement with Union Pacific. Extension to Galena is the next obvious expansion but that probably won’t happen until 2030-2034 time period.
Pritzker is trying to get the Indianapolis regional service back again but Indiana isn’t cooperating. But hopefully he can get Chicago-Cincinnati soon. Ohio is ready to dive in. It will be a huge driver for them to have regional Cincinnati-Columbus-Cleveland service. People shouldn’t be driving between those cities.”
Thats a lot of words to say you dont know
“Thats a lot of words to say you dont know”
Don’t know what? Google is your friend JohnnyU.
Amtrak in 2024 is not Amtrak in 1980.
“On the Mississippi River? Nope. But on Amtrak? Yep.
Big hub for Amtrak here in Chicago. One of the biggest in the country. How do you know I don’t work for Amtrak?”
Yet that doesnt stop you from making all kinds of ridiculous statements regarding the economic benefits these cities will receive.
Its probably more likely you shill for both a Chicago based real estate firm and Amtrak
This early spring weather is really bringing out the buyers in Chicago. The market is red hot. I know a few people who are going to list in the next 2 weeks. We should see a surge of inventory coming on but it won’t be enough to meet demand.
Lots of bidding wars likely this spring.
“Don’t know what? Google is your friend JohnnyU.”
Exactly, you dont know
“Amtrak in 2024 is not Amtrak in 1980.”
Cool, still doesnt make sense from a business travelers standpoint
“This is a gamechanger for Amtrak. Most older Americans only have experience riding the cross country routes which are vacations, not transportation, and this frustrated them because they were trying to use it as transportation. But if you take the regional routes, you’ll see that it certainly competes favorably with air travel and is a much nicer, and, faster, ride than flying is as it takes you from city center to city center.”
Im going to spitball times for a trip from DT Chicago to DT Minneapolis
Train
Chi to StP – 8 hrs
Greenline StP to Mpls = 40Min
Air
Blue line to ORD 40Min
+1hr for TSA
Flight 1.5Hr
Blue line from MSP to DT Mpls 30 Min
Total time Train Vs Air
8hrs 40 Min Vs 3Hrs 45Min
I can realistically Travel to Mpls/StP for a full day of meetings in 1 day via Air, Its 3 days via rail.
This makes sense how?
” Those are the ones that the congressmen are fighting for because without Amtrak, there wouldn’t be a city there.”
Clearly that is not true. Look at the route map and tell me how there are any small towns within the huge gaps in the netowrk.
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/Maps/Amtrak-System-Map-1018.pdf
Sabrina,
You really did not address the question of why the beneficiaries of these huge economic benefits are not willing to pay the cost of providing those benefits. You went off on a tangent about sleeper cars and profitable Amtrak routes.
“We, as a society, have decided that we need service by air and rails to some areas.”
No, politicians have. It’s some crazy Washington game where they trade favors. And we don’t get to pick and choose the initiatives that our politicians support.
“Should there not be a hospital there then? Shouldn’t the locals pay more to have an ER and some doctors? That would be your argument Gary but for many of us, that’s not the society we want to live in.”
As a society we will eventually be forced to come to grips with reality. I want to live in a rational society. Sounds like we should have fewer small towns. They sure do rack up the costs for the rest of us. But they won’t go away if the rest of us keep pouring money into them. When I chose a retirement place I specifically avoided small towns because of the lack of world class healthcare.
“Same with the post office. Why do we deliver mail to rural communities?”
Postal service is a more critical function than rail service and it’s virtually impossible to charge people who receive mail for the delivery. But if there was a way I’d support it.
Hence post roads, Gary?
Johnc,
As I said above…if there was a way to charge people extra for living out in the middle of nowhere I’d be all for it.
Also, as I pointed out above the government does not have an obligation to provide post roads. And certainly not everywhere. If I put a cabin out in the middle of a forest I will not get postal service.
And “more” essential is not the same thing as “essential without regard to costs”. Not to mention that often the post office will not deliver. You have to go to an office to pick up your mail. I don’t get the mail delivered to my home. I have to go half a block to a community mailbox, which is common.
Daily mail delivery has clearly outlived it’s usefulness. No reason we need daily mail delivery. Cost of mail delivery also needs to be raised to where it makes economic sense for rural areas.
I’d bet 90% of mail delivery is junk mail / advertisements. Pretty much all bills and legal notices can be done online. Those that can’t should pay what it cost for postal service no different from FedEx / UPS..
The postal service money should be focused on ensuring high speed internet access to all part so the country at this point.
“You know of a state that turns down fed money?”
Fifteen states don’t want federal money to feed kids over the summer.
“The postal service money should be focused on ensuring high speed internet access to all part so the country at this point.”
We have the infrastructure bill for that. It’s spending billions to get broadband to rural areas.
As for the post office, there was talk of going just to M-F and everyone had a fit so that was shelved.
“No, politicians have. It’s some crazy Washington game where they trade favors. And we don’t get to pick and choose the initiatives that our politicians support.”
No, WE decide this Gary. If you want to go on about the corrupt system blah, blah, blah, conspiracy, conspiracy…yes, these big projects were mostly done on favors to politicians. Bridges located in certain locations. The highway went through certain towns but not others. Even where they originally put the railroads was frought with bribery and corruption.
Doesn’t mean society hasn’t decided to do these things.
“Cool, still doesnt make sense from a business travelers standpoint”
Ba ha ha. Good luck getting a seat in business class on the regional trains but it won’t matter for you JohnnyU. You never leave your basement anyway.
Yes, Amtrak routinely steals business from the airlines on many of its routes. It’s often cheaper and faster. If you live in the suburbs, however, might not make sense to go to the city center to catch the train. But for Chicagoans, it’s often more attractive to take Amtrak to St Louis or Detroit and certainly Milwaukee than to go out to the airports. This is what makes the St Louis line one of the most profitable in Amtrak’s system.
“This is what makes the St Louis line one of the most profitable in Amtrak’s system.”
Profit = value > cost. All your profitable examples basically prove this.
“Ba ha ha. Good luck getting a seat in business class on the regional trains but it won’t matter for you JohnnyU. You never leave your basement anyway.”
Were you drunk when you typed this?
in regards to the rail option, It wont matter because I value my time and unlike you, my family enjoys spending time with me & I, them
So sad
Enjoy your cats, Boxed wine, Hallmark movies and zero companionship this weekend
Want to get there on time
Good luck with Amtrak
https://www.amtrak.com/about-amtrak/on-time-performance.html
“This is what makes the St Louis line one of the most profitable in Amtrak’s system”
This appears to be another lie
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/public/documents/corporate/monthlyperformancereports/2023/Amtrak-Monthly-Performance-Report-December-2023.pdf
Embarassing
““This is what makes the St Louis line one of the most profitable in Amtrak’s system”
This appears to be another lie”
#6 out of 49 (#4 out of 47, if you exclude the NE Corridor–where even Gary would admit it works) for the Illini sevice (which is what’s being referred to) is defintely “one of the most profitable”, even when only 7 turned a (operating) profit.
“#6 out of 49 (#4 out of 47, if you exclude the NE Corridor–where even Gary would admit it works) for the Illini sevice (which is what’s being referred to) is defintely “one of the most profitable”, even when only 7 turned a (operating) profit.”
I dont consider a negative profit, being one of the most profitable. I think the underlining assumption is that it made, not lost money
Also the only reason that its close to break even is that its being subsidized dollar for dollar on ticket sales
Also at $50/ticket its about 150 people a day heading South or North with stops in Joliet, Normal, Springfield, Alton & StL. Divide that by 5 trips daily and that 30 People per trail load
Thats just sooooo busy LOL
““This is what makes the St Louis line one of the most profitable in Amtrak’s system”
Just going off of what my employer, Amtrak themselves, says. They can compete with airlines and cars and have taken market share as well.
And if anyone thinks they carry only 30 passengers, you are in need of some serious help. Get out of your basement.
Last Thanksgiving, some people decided to try and book a last minute ticket on Amtrak’s NE line to go from Boston to DC and were shocked, I tell you, shocked, that the price was $1,000. They thought Amtrak was supposed to be “cheap”. What is going on?
Ba ha ha.
People really need to get into this century. It’s getting so sad. So many of you are living like 30 years ago- in ALL ways. Get out into the world.
It’s 2024. Amtrak uses surge pricing. I have taken Amtrak for $10 for a 2 hour trip booked 2 months ahead of time and I have paid $108 for one way business class to Detroit. These are just for regional trips, not vacations on the long distance trains. I try and book early or else you 1) pay a much higher price or 2) may not even get a seat.
Why are you showing us one month worth of data and then declaring that I don’t know what I am talking about the Lincoln Service?
Shameful.
“Want to get there on time
Good luck with Amtrak”
Stupid is as stupid does. There’s a huge difference between cross country routes and regional routes. People who live in this century know this.
But anyone knows with ANY transportation that there are things that go wrong and there are delays. Are the Amtrak trains running on time with the huge rainstorms hitting LA and Santa Barbara right now? No. Do they run on time when there is a blizzard or polar vortex? No. But airlines cancel thousands of flights in the bad weather (although Amtrak DID have to cancel Michigan routes during the polar vortex because of freezing on the switches.)
Thousands of people take Amtrak as transportation to their jobs every day. Just like they do with Metra and CTA. All have troubles from time to time. That’s life. But I’ve had wonderful luck in my Amtrak regional trips. And, yes, I realize, it’s just been luck. May it continue. Lol.
“Were you drunk when you typed this?”
Nope. Really hard to get business class seats. Usually sold out on the St Louis line unless you book well ahead of time. They should add two cars for business. The Illini has a bigger car for business class, so it already has more seats.
“Enjoy your cats, Boxed wine, Hallmark movies and zero companionship this weekend”
I’ll be sure to tell my husband we’re watching Hallmark movies. (He doesn’t mind them sometimes actually. ha ha.) But too many other things right now on the other streamers.
What’s wrong with cats? Why are men so sexist about cats? I don’t get it. Is it some kind of insult to have animals in your life?
Also nothing wrong with boxed wine, if that’s what you like. But I’ve never had any so I can’t give out recommendations. You can just get cheap wine at Trader Joe’s in a bottle.
“I’ve never had any [boxed wine]”
*never*? huh. Snob or prude-when-young?
“showing us one month worth of data”
It’s 3 months. And way better than the year-earlier 3 months. And 2019 was a different era.
Yes, Gary, profit = value > cost.
None of those three things are necessarily tied to money. Doesn’t mean money shouldn’t be a factor in each of those components, but it also doesn’t mean that one is limited to only monetary considerations, either.
“*never*? huh. Snob or prude-when-young?”
I don’t know anyone who drank boxed wine. Ever. You could get $5 bottles at Cost Plus.
What does a “prude” have to do with wine drinking? That’s the strangest thing I’ve heard in a while.
“Just going off of what my employer, Amtrak themselves, says. They can compete with airlines and cars and have taken market share as well.”
I mean anyone can compete if your objective is to lose money.
“Last Thanksgiving, some people decided to try and book a last minute ticket on Amtrak’s NE line to go from Boston to DC and were shocked, I tell you, shocked, that the price was $1,000. They thought Amtrak was supposed to be “cheap”. What is going on?”
N=1 rears its ugly head
“It’s 2024. Amtrak uses surge pricing. I have taken Amtrak for $10 for a 2 hour trip booked 2 months ahead of time and I have paid $108 for one way business class to Detroit. These are just for regional trips, not vacations on the long distance trains. I try and book early or else you 1) pay a much higher price or 2) may not even get a seat.”
Pro tip – No one cares
“Stupid is as stupid does. There’s a huge difference between cross country routes and regional routes. People who live in this century know this.
But anyone knows with ANY transportation that there are things that go wrong and there are delays. Are the Amtrak trains running on time with the huge rainstorms hitting LA and Santa Barbara right now? No. Do they run on time when there is a blizzard or polar vortex? No. But airlines cancel thousands of flights in the bad weather (although Amtrak DID have to cancel Michigan routes during the polar vortex because of freezing on the switches.)
Thousands of people take Amtrak as transportation to their jobs every day. Just like they do with Metra and CTA. All have troubles from time to time. That’s life. But I’ve had wonderful luck in my Amtrak regional trips. And, yes, I realize, it’s just been luck. May it continue. Lol.”
Stupid people rationalize shitty service
“Nope. Really hard to get business class seats. Usually sold out on the St Louis line unless you book well ahead of time. They should add two cars for business. The Illini has a bigger car for business class, so it already has more seats.”
Have another drink
“Why are you showing us one month worth of data and then declaring that I don’t know what I am talking about the Lincoln Service?
Shameful.”
Drunky sez what?
You’ve been cocking off about how profitable that route is, post some data, or do what you always do – lie
“I’ll be sure to tell my husband we’re watching Hallmark movies. (He doesn’t mind them sometimes actually. ha ha.) But too many other things right now on the other streamers.
What’s wrong with cats? Why are men so sexist about cats? I don’t get it. Is it some kind of insult to have animals in your life?
Also nothing wrong with boxed wine, if that’s what you like. But I’ve never had any so I can’t give out recommendations. You can just get cheap wine at Trader Joe’s in a bottle.”
Tell George Glass we said hi.
“Tell George Glass we said hi.”
Who?
Is this some other sexist, misogynist thing JohnnyU? I’m assuming it is.
“Have another drink”
Your projection again JohnnyU. I hope you get the help you need.
“Is this some other sexist, misogynist thing JohnnyU? I’m assuming it is.”
Dont assume and Do better
“Tell George Glass we said hi.”
Who?
george glass was Jan Brady’s fake boyfriend, because she was alone. Brady Bunch rerun.