Market Conditions: Downtown Luxury Sales Return in 2021: Is Downtown Back?
While Chicago housing sales have jumped to 15-year highs city wide, one of the slowest neighborhoods has been downtown.
Downtown was the epicenter of the looting/protests and pandemic shutdowns over the last year with many restaurants and retail stores shut or boarded up during this time.
Was it “over” for downtown?
How many years would it take to recover? If ever?
And what would happen to downtown real estate, where inventory jumped to over 30 months during 2020?
Crain’s has an update.
A suburban couple on Friday paid almost $6.7 million for a condominium at the St. Regis Chicago on Wacker Drive, another sign that big-money buyers are coming back into the downtown condo market.
They are not the only ones. In the past couple of months, seven condos have sold for $4 million-plus condos in downtown neighborhoods where the buyers put them under contract in 2021.They include a Lake Shore Drive penthouse that sold in early July for $11.25 million. It had been for sale since mid-2019, but the buyers put it under contract in May.
The recent run of high net worth people buying upper-end units “evidences a strong resurgence of the downtown condo market,” said Susan Miner, a Premier Relocation agent. She represented buyers who paid $6.75 million last week for a 22nd-floor condo at No. 9 Walton. They put it under contract in May.
Crain’s goes on to say that since November, 29 buyers have put condos under contract in the St. Regis with a total value of $61 million.
The Chicago Tribune Residences haven’t started closings yet.
And One Chicago has just started marketing its 70 luxury condos on top of its 70-story tower across from Holy Name Cathedral.
Those won’t be ready for closings until next year.
Additionally, there are existing buildings that have resales on the market including The Palmolive, where the penthouse is listed for $11.9 million.
Crain’s says that there were 8 condos that sold for over $4 million in all of downtown last year.
There are already 7 this year and it’s only July.
Is downtown “back”?
Big dollar buyers are back in the downtown condo market [Crain’s Chicago Business, by Dennis Rodkin, July 20, 2021]
Now I know $4MM isnt $5MM, but it feels pretty close in RE terms. If there were 14 +/- hi-rise condos >$5MM and a shill says – “Luxury is doing okay because the stock market is at record highs. They are always correlated. But they’ve over built on the luxury end. There are too many high rises with new product. How many buyers of $5 million condos do they think there are? It will take 5 to 10 years to clear all that inventory, in a good economy.”, yet 7 units >$4MM have closed. Can someone help me with the maths to show how there’s inventory that will take “5-10 years to clear”?
Must be that “Shill Maths” ive been hearing so much about…
No Chicago is not back.
It’s out of control violence is regularly covered on national news.
We have perhaps the most ineffective mayor ever and a horrendously steep tax situation funding an overall pretty bad school system.
My neighbors are pretty much all gone if they have children. Our HOA president sold their house and just left the state in the middle of their term and basically said F-it and walked away from their duties. Real estate is selling kind of but look whos buying – you have families leaving and gays or Dinks moving in. Its a net loss of people and no way to build communities. CPS wont even release the data on how bad the exodus is, Im hearing some north side schools it’s 20% or more and they are giving spots away to kids from all across the city to mask the decline. Then you have the BS pandemic with a 99.8% survival rate which IL and Chicago are clinging too like a self flagellating brainwashed cultist. Let me tell, I have been all over this country on business all year and last year, there is no pandemic except in a few blue state big cities. The rest of the country is literally laughing at IL, NY and CA while taking their residents and businesses. This state and city are committing suicide and for what? So some billionaire Democrats can retain control? F’k them, this state and it’s loser citizens and anyone who goes along with this BS. Chicago deserves all the hell it’s getting.
I thought there were few kids in my neighborhood until the pandemic and with everything closed, kids were playing outside. Townhouses near me are selling near record highs from before the crash. The local school is garbage, so the parents either go with private school or selective enrollment. There are fewer condos on the market as well and I am guessing I could sell quickly considering there are no units similar to mine currently for sale.
If we want to talk about anecdotes, I have 3 west coast friends who are moving back here due to the forest fires. They all expressed extreme distress at having to flee their homes last year and the current impending doom. One is here right now and going to see properties today.
I am extremely frustrated by this city. There are few affordable areas with as much culture as Chicago though. The crime level here is extremely worrying, but so are the problems in other states such as forest fires, draughts, poorly run electrical grids, lack of healthcare options, crumbling buildings, earthquakes, tornadoes, and hurricanes.
Are people here seriously afraid of looting? Looting is not even on my list of concerns and I tend to worry about everything.
“Chicago deserves all the hell it’s getting.”
I’m about halfway into a two-week visit to Chicago, our first time here since the end of 2019. Let me preface this by saying that, (1) I wasn’t here last summer, and thus I don’t have that period of unrest coloring my perceptions of present day Chicago (some colleagues here have expressed that it was pretty bad), and (2) I’ve been spending time only in the same limited areas that I would when we lived here (the loop, the northside, and north shore burbs). At the risk of jinxing the rest of our visit, I have to say, I’m not really seeing where all of the doom and gloom’s coming from. Pretty much every store and restaurant is totally understaffed, but very busy, and thus the customer experience is less than stellar (which is probably the case is many places in the country, especailly the more desirable areas). And I’ve seen a few more rats than normal (in the daytime even). But the city otherwise seems pretty vibrant, orderly, positive, etc.
“Are people here seriously afraid of looting?”
Yes. How couldn’t you be? What’s changed to make you feel that law enforcement will be able to restore order?
That’s a pretty pathetic “rebound” considering the wealthy have benefitted significantly from government stimulus. If you’re worth over 10m and haven’t at least doubled your NW since 2019, might be time to reconsider your investment strategy.
One of the biggest advantages Chicago has is its access to clean water and lack of natural disasters. For the all the advantages CA and FL bring, fires, droughts, hurricanes and shortage of water will make them even more expensive.
“Yes. How couldn’t you be? What’s changed to make you feel that law enforcement will be able to restore order?”
The reality is that if people are going to loot, even with the most adept police department, you’re not going to stop it. Chicago is no different than any other city in this regard.
Homes and individual people were not targeted last year. I didn’t feel scared at any point. I felt inconvenienced and sad.
I’m more concerned about all of the unsolved crimes involving innocent victims that the police seem to be completely ignoring.
“At the risk of jinxing the rest of our visit, I have to say, I’m not really seeing where all of the doom and gloom’s coming from.”
Thank you for injecting some sanity into the discussion of the city, right now.
The doom and gloom comes from those who don’t live IN the city. They’re in the suburbs or other states.
Chicago is bouncing back quicker than I would have thought. It was awful last year. No tourists. Everything boarded up. No workers in the loop.
This year, they are saying about 50% of the workers have returned to the Loop and you can definitely feel it. Still not the same as pre-pandemic, but some of the energy is returning.
Tourist areas are as crowded as ever. More restaurants shut this year than normal, including places like Starbucks.
Have you been over to Fulton Market yet anonny? I don’t think you’d see ANY doom and gloom over there.
“If we want to talk about anecdotes, I have 3 west coast friends who are moving back here due to the forest fires. They all expressed extreme distress at having to flee their homes last year and the current impending doom. One is here right now and going to see properties today.”
This is interesting jenny. I think it’s something to watch. Already, many West Coasters are going to the East Coast (Raleigh, Atlanta, Florida etc.) Many go to Nashville.
But Chicago’s job market makes it attractive, as do our housing costs. You can get a 2/2 downtown for anywhere from $300,000 to $600,000 which is a price that’s impossible in any West Coast big city (but maybe in Portland???).
The fires are a real thing. It’s hard to breathe. It’s happening every year now. And “fire season” lasts for months.
“Let me tell, I have been all over this country on business all year and last year, there is no pandemic except in a few blue state big cities. The rest of the country is literally laughing at IL, NY and CA while taking their residents and businesses.”
Sure Ed.
Let’s not start with the covid denial again on this blog.
People are dying again. Jacksonville Florida hospitals filling up. Same with Houston. We’re in the middle of another outbreak. Illinois, and Chicago, has done a good job of containment the last few months (and vaccination) but it’s not high enough. And the outbreak is going to spread to ALL states as we saw record airplane capacity over 4th of July weekend so everyone was going everywhere, with no masks, social distancing etc.
We are in for another few months of tragedy, unfortunately.
“F’k them, this state and it’s loser citizens and anyone who goes along with this BS. Chicago deserves all the hell it’s getting.”
Ed, it’s a big country. Just move. Plenty of lovely places. Tennessee, the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Texas. All have booming job markets. Cheap housing. Low taxes.
Just go.
Meanwhile, Chicago keeps adding unicorn companies to its roster and is now fourth or fifth on the list, nationally, for VC money. And it just built another 70 story residential building.
“Can someone help me with the maths to show how there’s inventory that will take “5-10 years to clear”?”
7 have sold this year.
There are currently 45 on the MLS that are “active” (condos and co-ops).
At 10 a year, that’s 4.5 years to clear all of that.
There are also dozens more that are off the market in the new construction buildings including St Regis, One Chicago and Chicago Tribune Residences.
Let’s say there’s another 20.
That’s 6.5 years at 10 sales a year.
One Bennett Park probably also hasn’t listed all of its $4 million plus units that are still available. Could be 3 to 5 more in that building.
So that’s 7 years.
Now, if we suddenly get 20 a year to sell, then the number of years of inventory will drop dramatically. And maybe this year we WILL see 14 or 15 sales as there is still another 5 months to go. Who knows?
But they’ve overbuilt on the luxury end of the market in Chicago. And over $4 million is extreme luxury. There are dozens in the $1 to $3 million range.
We live a few blocks from One Chicago, so we’ve seen it coming up. Walking by it the other day, it occurred to both my wife and me that people are going to be paying millions to live across the street from the old YMCA. Chicago Avenue is far from lovely right there, including some of the people hanging out. Wouldn’t be my choice of locations if I had $28 million to spend on a penthouse.
Ed, you lost me when you referred to the “BS” pandemic. Tell the families of 600,000 dead that they died of “BS.” By the way, I read that thousands of non-vaccinated people are now on ventilators and dying in hospitals across the South. That’s what comes of refusing to accept science.
Only Yesterday: An Informal History of the 1920s – Frederick Lewis Allen. Published 1931
Chapter 11: Home, Sweet Florida,
“….All through the decade [the 1920’s], but especially during and immediately after the Florida fever, there was an epidemic of ambitious schemes hatched by promoters and boosters to bring prosperity to various American cities, towns, and resorts, by presenting each of them, in sumptuous advertisements, circulars, and press copy put out by hustling chambers of commerce, as the “center of a rising industrial empire” or as the “new playground of America’s rich.” Some of these ventures prospered; in California, for example, where the technique of boosting had been brought to poetic perfection long years previously, concerted campaigns brought industries, winter visitors, summer visitors, and good fortune for the businessman and the hotel-keeper alike. It was estimated that a million people a year went to California `just to look and play”-and, of course, to spend money. But not all such ventures could prosper, the number of factories and of wealthy vacationists being unhappily limited. City after city, hoping to attract industries within its limits, eloquently pointed out its “advantages” and tried to “make its personality felt” and to “carry its constructive message to the American people”; but at length it began to dawn upon the boosters that attracting industries bore some resemblance to robbing Peter to pay Paul, and that if all of them were converted to boosting, each of them was as likely to find itself in the role of Peter as in that of Paul. And exactly as the developers of the tropical wonderlands of Florida had learned that there were more land- speculators able and willing to gamble in houses intended for the polo- playing class than there were members of this class, so also those who carved out playgrounds for the rich in North Carolina or elsewhere learned to their ultimate sorrow that the rich could not play everywhere at once. And once more the downfall of their bright hopes had financial repercussions, as bankrupt developments led to the closing of bank after bank.”
vs…
” A suburban couple on Friday paid almost $6.7 million for a condominium at the St. Regis Chicago on Wacker Drive, another sign that big-money buyers are coming back into the downtown condo market.
While several multimillion-dollar units at the recently completed tower designed by Studio Gang have been under contract since years before the twin 2020 crises of pandemic and social unrest walloped the downtown condo market, these buyers put the unit under contract in April, as recovery was taking root.
They are not the only ones. In the past couple of months, seven condos have sold for $4 million-plus condos in downtown neighborhoods where the buyers put them under contract in 2021.They include a Lake Shore Drive penthouse that sold in early July for $11.25 million. It had been for sale since mid-2019, but the buyers put it under contract in May.
The recent run of high net worth people buying upper-end units “evidences a strong resurgence of the downtown condo market,” said Susan Miner, a Premier Relocation agent. She represented buyers who paid $6.75 million last week for a 22nd-floor condo at No. 9 Walton. They put it under contract in May.”
Dan #2, as we’ve all discussed, the response to the pandemic has been varied, from complete lockdown to minor mitigations and inconveniences, and it makes ZERO difference in death rate or hospitalizations.
If you’re at .2% at high risk of getting a severe case, for goodness sakes, get the vax NOW, or become a hermit and don’t leave your home… the vax clearly seems to reduce the severity of the cases (but won’t stop you from getting sick entirely)….but if you’re part of the 98.2% that gets sick with or without symptoms, clearly, keep living your life, and stay at home if you don’t feel good.
Ed is right, the pandemic is over outside of a few major blue cities (and I’ve been all over the country in 2021 myself for business and vacations); most places and people are just learning to live with the risk and act accordingly.
“And the outbreak is going to spread to ALL states as we saw record airplane capacity over 4th of July weekend so everyone was going everywhere, with no masks, social distancing etc.”
Maybe a White House and Congressional super spreader event could have been avoided if covid denying anti-mask Texas Democrats weren’t busy suppressing democracy and flying maskless to DC…. 600K+ Dead and these Democrats still won’t follow FAA regulations.
Also, weird that all these concerned politicians and scientists are mum on the Olympics. There’s literally no way that it won’t cause a world-wide super spreader event.
But hey Biden can just blame it on Facebook I suppose….
“We are in for another few months of tragedy, unfortunately.”
Who is “we”? Are you an anti-vaxxer over the age of say 50?
The tragedy is the inability for partisans to speak to the issues and concerns of half the country who by the way are not partisan but are mostly middle to lower classes in urban and rural areas. At least this “tragedy” you speak of will be “equitable”.
Further, I have yet to see any study or statement from the medical community saying this variant is just as deadly or more deadly than the original Covid bug.
All because something is more transmissible doesn’t make it more deadly….
“I read that thousands of non-vaccinated people are now on ventilators and dying in hospitals across the South.”
Was this on Twitter? Maybe Biden needs to add that to the misinformation list? The 7 day moving average is <250 deaths per day per the CDC…. not "thousands". Good lord.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#trends_dailytrendscases
https://www.wbez.org/stories/vaccination-rates-across-chicago-suburbs-range-from-under-15-to-over-80/01c45765-cbf4-4ead-97d7-c76a7b93f1e9
The narrative rarely conforms to the facts…
That being said, the vaccine clearly works and lowers death rates and severity.
However, there are concerns about the side effects, with some very serious, but very rare side effects. And the vax often causes sickness on the second dose, and the vax seems to be make post-vax symptoms worse for people who’ve previously had coronavirus. It’s not clear that the vax provides better or the same protection as natural antibodies from previous infection (disregard politicians and big pharma and government employees, look only at the data).
It’s a very personal choice to get the vax or not and each person must weigh the risk vs benefit on their own. Many people will get the vax and are better off; but for some people, such as children with low risk and those with previous infections, it’s a very personal decision to decide if the risk of the vax outweighs the benefits.
But take the vax if you want, and for goodness sakes, if you’re high risk for a severe case of coronavirus, take the vax now.
But the rest of us will continue to live the rest of our lives, not in fear, but making our own risk assumption….
Some people here apparently live in an alternate universe when it comes to the pandemic. I won’t name names.
I agree the pandemic was winding down. Things really seemed great in June. I long ago had ditched the mask and was happy not to worry any more after I was vaccinated.
Then all the anti-vaxxers (meaning a lot of right wingers as well as a lot of poorly educated people in the cities, many of whom were minorities) started getting the Delta virus, which spreads far faster than the old variants. It’s spreading very quickly in the “red” states, by the way, even more so than in the cities, despite what some people here want you to believe.
The death rate isn’t 0.2%, either. No. It’s 1.8%. If you’re going to cite stats, at least get them right.
According to the Mayo Clinic, 32 million people have had Covid in the U.S. and more than 580,000 have died. Do the math yourself.
By comparison, during the 2019-2020 flu season, about 38 million people had the flu and 22,000 of them died.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-vs-flu/art-20490339
A bit more serious than the flu. If I were told the plane I was getting on had a 1.8% of fatally crashing, I wouldn’t board it, would you?
But then, you must know more than the people at the Mayo Clinic.
Dan #2,
It takes self-reflection to realize that, in fact, it is you who lives in the alternate universe.
According to the CDC, only “1 in 4.3 (95% UI* 3.7 – 5.0) total COVID–19 infections were reported” with 114.6 Million total infections, makes a death rate significantly less than than 1.8%.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/burden.html
I can’t blame people for misinformation, because it is difficult to parse out what is true, and what is false, and often we can’t agree even on basic facts, and who has the time to figure out this stuff anyways, and even I get suckered into misinformation every once in a while too. But they’ve done studies, and smart people honestly wildly incorrect facts about coronavirus.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-misinformation-is-distorting-covid-policies-and-behaviors/
“But take the vax if you want, and for goodness sakes, if you’re high risk for a severe case of coronavirus, take the vax now.”
If you want?
Delta variant is hitting the younger harder than the early variants. Hospitals filling up is what we have to watch. The whole point of lockdowns is to save your hospitals. Once they can’t take the heart attack, car crash and stroke patients, the community is screwed.
So Homedelete tries to couch it as “choice.”
It’s not “choice” to the get polio or small pox vaccine. Sorry. The only way to defeat it is to reach herd immunity. But sadly, Americans are too stupid to do the right thing.
Science has knocked it out of the park with this pandemic. But Americans have squandered it. Now, a tragedy is going to unfold over the next few months that didn’t have to happen.
Oh- and maybe the nurses and doctors at the hospitals all of these unvaccinated COVID patients are going to should just say “nope” when they show up at the ER. “It was your choice” they’ll say.
Ugh.
So sad to do this to our doctors and nurses. They are heroes.
Good article, by the way Homedelete.
What’s the narrative?
That there are millions of people in the Chicagoland area who aren’t vaccinated yet?
That’s the “narrative” and “reality.”
Some neighborhoods of Chicago are only 30% vaccinated. Some are 75%. It’s not enough to stop the spread of the virus, that’s for sure. And that leaves too many hosts for delta to latch onto (which it will.)
This is why cases are doubling about every 7 days in some cities in Florida and Texas. We KNOW this. It’s what happened in India, the UK and now Indonesia. It will be no different here.
Missouri is already warning that COVID is moving right up I-44 to St Louis. None of the counties are sufficiently vaccinated. Not even St Louis.
It’s ironic that everyone keeps warning about what will happen “in the fall.” Everyone around the country is inside in the air conditioning. It’s spreading at will.
“Who is “we”? Are you an anti-vaxxer over the age of say 50?”
The nation, WP.
The hospitals are filling up again. Jacksonville, a major city, is already past its last pandemic high. If those patients were vaccinated then the deaths would be relatively low. But 95%+ of them are not. So we’re back to the winter when the outbreak is circulating unchecked. Only Delta is 5x more transmissable and transmits with a bigger viral load than the early variant.
What a tragedy.
It didn’t have to be like this.
Florida stopped reporting its statewide hospitalizations for a reason. They don’t want anyone to know just how bad it is. But the hospitals are still reporting to the CDC so it can be figured out.
If Florida gets back to the pandemic highs in Jan/Feb, then we’re in trouble. Let’s pray they do not.
Last week, they were at 3200 hospitalized. Highs were around 7200. But cases rising rapidly.
“Maybe a White House and Congressional super spreader event could have been avoided if covid denying anti-mask Texas Democrats weren’t busy suppressing democracy and flying maskless to DC…. 600K+ Dead and these Democrats still won’t follow FAA regulations.”
Wrong. Get your facts straight at least.
They flew on a private jet. No mask mandate on private jets. Ask J.Lo. She’ll tell you.
And stop blaming 6 people. The problem is Texas, where they got it, right???? Texas, which is seeing an explosion of cases. Texas where the Houston hospitals are filling up, again, and people are dying, again, because they have under 50% of the state vaccinated. Oh, and they’ve now recorded the nasty Peru variant, the Lambda, in Houston too. Good times.
Thousands of people just attended the NBA finals game and the British Open WP. No one said to cancel those events. Olympics isn’t having fans.
“Ed is right, the pandemic is over outside of a few major blue cities (and I’ve been all over the country in 2021 myself for business and vacations); most places and people are just learning to live with the risk and act accordingly.”
Stop with the denial AGAIN Homedelete. I’m so tired of this bullshit about a pandemic that is literally still killing thousands of people around the world every day.
America is about 4 to 6 weeks behind Europe in terms of the worst of our outbreak. It’s picking up steam now in some places thanks to the 4th of July when everyone was traveling. We’ve had outbreaks after every single major holiday, and this one had no masking/social distancing and too many people without the vaccine acting like it’s all “over” when it’s actually worse than a year ago.
Yeah- this outbreak may be worse than anything we’ve seen before. Ugh.
New Orleans just instituted an indoor mask mandate again, joining LA. It’s cases are rising too quickly. It wants to get ahead of it before the hospitals start filling.
“Ed is right, the pandemic is over outside of a few major blue cities (and I’ve been all over the country in 2021 myself for business and vacations); most places and people are just learning to live with the risk and act accordingly.”
Also, Arkansas sure is blue. As is Alabama.
“Walking by it the other day, it occurred to both my wife and me that people are going to be paying millions to live across the street from the old YMCA.”
Yep. But I’m hoping that this big development really turns around that stretch of Chicago. It will have that massive Whole Foods as well as the “resort” Life Fitness.
ha ha.
I’ve always wondered why they haven’t developed the parking lot next to the YMCA? Or the one behind it (on Dearborn)?
Both are prime spots. I don’t even think they park cars on the one on Dearborn.
Huge lots. Could build a big high rise there.
Dan #2: outside of the condos in that building, have you seen the prices for the rentals? In both towers?
Lol.
Under contract in 4 days.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4003-N-Greenview-Ave-60613/unit-3N/home/49748255
My problem with One Chicago and like buildings is that they are partly rental. A lot of those rentals could be new condos I could afford, but I cannot afford what’s being offered.
In fact, outside a few South Loop buildings, there is not a single downtown highrise 2/2 under $750k constructed after 2010 (with units for sale). Everything below that price point has been built as rentals. I would not mind moving to a new place instead of renovating my current condo.
“ Under contract in 4 days.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/4003-N-Greenview-Ave-60613/unit-3N/home/49748255”
A nice home priced sanely, where the owners didn’t make the mistake of paining the woodwork sold? – SHOCKING
FYI – owners are losing money with transaction costs after 4 days
Can we please stick with facts and data?
1) The case mortality for Covid is not 0.2%. It’s 1.8%. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality That’s kinda not insignificant.
2) The pandemic is now limited to the unvaccinated. If you insist on making it a red/ blue issue we know how the vaccination rates break out between red and blue people.
HD,
I understand your calculations, but I’m guessing the answer is somewhere in between, because we’ll never really know exactly how many infections there were.
Certainly the death rate is falling now because many people are vaccinated or already had the virus and have antibodies. So if they get it again, they’re unlikely to have symptoms, let alone get sick and die. So my guess is that the death rate is falling. However, the Delta variant is more potent and unvaccinated are vulnerable. Hopefully it blows over.
I’m not “scared,” by the way. I’m just disgusted that so many people aren’t doing their patriotic duty by getting vaccinated, and that the right-wing media machine continues to drive anti-vaccine nonsense. It’s pretty close to being traitorous.
If you know anything about viruses, it’s that they evolve quickly when they spread. That’s why we keep seeing new variants. If everyone had gotten vaccinated right away, the virus wouldn’t have been able to spread, so new variants would have been far less likely. Each new variant has a better chance of being resistant to our vaccines. This is Virology 101, HD.
It’s not a “choice,” and it’s not confined to “Blue cities,” as you misleadingly say. You’re the one with blinders on if you haven’t noticed what’s going on in Missouri and Arkansas. Neither is known as a blue state, and rural areas are being hit hardest. Those are areas most likely to be in the thrall of right-wing media and politicians. It’s pretty elementary.
“However, there are concerns about the side effects, with some very serious, but very rare side effects. And the vax often causes sickness on the second dose, and the vax seems to be make post-vax symptoms worse for people who’ve previously had coronavirus. It’s not clear that the vax provides better or the same protection as natural antibodies from previous infection (disregard politicians and big pharma and government employees, look only at the data).”
250 unvaccinated people are dying every day in the country. How many people are dying from the vaccination? The decision appears pretty damn clear to me.
Sure it’s a personal choice but then the rest of us have to pay for their medical care and meanwhile they are incubating Covid 21 or 22 which will have a 10% (yeah, I pulled that out of my ass) case mortality rate.
“I’m not “scared,” by the way. I’m just disgusted that so many people aren’t doing their patriotic duty by getting vaccinated, and that the right-wing media machine continues to drive anti-vaccine nonsense. It’s pretty close to being traitorous.”
What right wing media machine?
Arguably the 2 largest RW media personalities (Hannity & Carlson) both have not taken a anti-vax stance. This is more bullshit politics allowing some to feel morally superior.
From the data I’ve seen, it appears that its not a political divide, it an economic one.
“Can we please stick with facts and data?
1) The case mortality for Covid is not 0.2%. It’s 1.8%. https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality That’s kinda not insignificant.”
Gary do you honestly believe that looking at the aggregate data provides any value relative to where were at today?
I’m a retired MD residing in Arkansas. I have a second home in Chicago in the G.C.
Let me assure everyone reading this blog that the virus is real and spreading at an alarming rate here and in neighboring states. We are a red, rural state. Our hospitals are full and elective procedures are not being scheduled. Hospitals that provide specialty care cannot receive transfers.I have friends who needed immediate surgeries and were transferred to three city hospitals before being admitted.
A teenage farm boy whose hand is mangled in a farming accident, cannot transfer to an urban hospital where trauma and hand surgeons are located. He loses his hand. So,your access to non-virus care is jeopardized. And don’t think things in Chicago “are different”.
“250 unvaccinated people are dying every day in the country. How many people are dying from the vaccination? The decision appears pretty damn clear to me.”
The seven day average is at 211. The only thing I see on the CDC site is that theres been >1000 deaths due to Covid from those fully vaccinated – Doesnt give a daily/weekly breakdown that I can find. Do you have a link
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html
Are you in favor of vaccinating children as the majority havent been todate?
“Are you in favor of vaccinating children as the majority havent been todate?”
Of course. The 12-year minimum age is so arbitrary. We’ll get our 9-old vacinated the day they lower the age.
Same talking points over and over from the right wing fact deniers on this site. It isn’t just whether or not you will live, there are plenty of people who are long hauling from this disease. Covid is dangerous and we should all do our part to reduce overworking our medical community.
When it comes to the city rebounding, I see it from 800 S State and 123 N Wacker everyday. People are out, the city is busy and while some crime statistics are up, my neighbors and I are no more concerned than in the past. If you don’t live here, stop acting like FoxNews.
“The seven day average is at 211. The only thing I see on the CDC site is that theres been >1000 deaths due to Covid from those fully vaccinated – Doesnt give a daily/weekly breakdown that I can find. Do you have a link”
Texas just released this data since February of this year.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/21/coronavirus-texas-vaccinated-deaths/
“Of the 8,787 people who have died in Texas due to COVID-19 since early February, at least 43 were fully vaccinated, the Texas Department of State Health Services said.
That means 99.5% of people who died due to COVID-19 in Texas from Feb. 8 to July 14 were unvaccinated, while 0.5% were the result of “breakthrough infections,” which DSHS defines as people who contracted the virus two weeks after being fully vaccinated.”
“Arguably the 2 largest RW media personalities (Hannity & Carlson) both have not taken a anti-vax stance.”
Whut???
LMFAO.
Yes, they have.
It’s shameful. They are trying to course correct now but it’s too late. Their own viewers are the ones dying.
“Under contract in 4 days.”
Well, yeah, they listed it at (basically) 2017 price, having updated the kitchen– new counters, backsplash and appliances, and painted the cabinets.
“FYI – owners are losing money with transaction costs after 4 days”
This is where the bears get the housing market all wrong.
Why does anyone think that if you bought 2, 3, 4 or 5 years ago in Chicago that you are making money? Chicago home prices haven’t been going up at the rate to cover costs. And you need to cover at least 7% to cover your transaction costs upon selling.
Chicago’s market is red hot now. Prices ARE rising. But we’re not Boise or Austin. Prices aren’t up 30% in a year.
That doesn’t mean the housing market isn’t red hot. That doesn’t mean that prices aren’t rising here (just at a lower rate). That doesn’t mean that if you bought, and did nothing to your property, that you can sell 4 years later for buckets of money.
It does mean that the housing market is in a good place though. These home owners bought just 4 years ago. That’s not long enough to cover the transaction costs, normally. But now it is because prices HAVE gone up.
And they are selling quickly when priced appropriately for this market.
This is all great news.
The Chicago housing market remains red hot. It’s the best market in 15 years. To say otherwise is, again, gaslighting.
Fully support vaccination of high risk group, but I don’t get the push to vaccinate children.
Per the CDC data, there have been 337 covid deaths of kids under 17 years old NATIONWIDE. Keep in mind, that is died WITH covid, not OF covid. So the kid dies of brain cancer, hit by bus, car wreck, drowns, etc but test positive for Covid, they still call it a covid death. Some 50,000 kids under 17 died otherwise.
There were nearly 3x’s as many pneumonia deaths in that cohort. Almost 200 flu deaths.
See for yourself…
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku
Yes, they have.
It’s shameful. They are trying to course correct now but it’s too late. Their own viewers are the ones dying.
Link?
And not to play gotcha-ism, but I dont seem to recall your issue with those on the left saying they wouldnt take a “Trump” Vaccine
“Fully support vaccination of high risk group, but I don’t get the push to vaccinate children.
Per the CDC data, there have been 337 covid deaths of kids under 17 years old NATIONWIDE. Keep in mind, that is died WITH covid, not OF covid. So the kid dies of brain cancer, hit by bus, car wreck, drowns, etc but test positive for Covid, they still call it a covid death. Some 50,000 kids under 17 died otherwise.
There were nearly 3x’s as many pneumonia deaths in that cohort. Almost 200 flu deaths.
See for yourself…
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Deaths-by-Sex-and-Age/9bhg-hcku”
+1
If the data changes, it should be re-evaluated
Its amazing how people that “Believe in Science”, are total frauds…
“My problem with One Chicago and like buildings is that they are partly rental. A lot of those rentals could be new condos I could afford, but I cannot afford what’s being offered.”
I get the frustration Lauren. They haven’t built any mid-priced condos downtown in a LONG time.
There’s that new Cirrus building in Lakeshore East that is condos but those are higher priced than $750k for a 2/2.
The rentals in the One Chicago Place condo building are starting at $4 per square feet. There is a 1000 square foot 1/1.5 that they are renting for $5500 so that one is even more expensive.
Even if they made the entire building condos, they would still be at luxury price points starting at $1 million.
Many in development are now saying that they cannot build a high rise at the “old” housing boom price points anymore (2/2s for $450,000, for instance.) And rents are too high now to price them that low.
Basically, the downtown has gotten expensive. The era of starter condos is likely over.
Where could they build them?
Possibly Uptown or Hyde Park/Kenwood/South Shore (for high rises.)
Otherwise, we’ll likely continue to see low rise/mid rise condos that are pricey in the hot neighborhoods like West Loop/Fulton Market.
Heck, even the building in that River Place development in Printers Row that is selling right now, is at the higher price point. Small 1-bedrooms under 700 square feet in the $400,000s.
“Its amazing how people that “Believe in Science”, are total frauds…”
I thought it was obvious why there is a push to vaccinate the kids?
They bring it home to the older parents and grandparents who ARE at risk. Not to mention the teachers in the classrooms.
Link?
Tucker just said to get the vaccine YESTERDAY with his viewers now dying. Clearly the Fox higher ups sent out the word that the hospitalizations/deaths were too high to ignore and that they had to stop their vaccine conspiracy crap.
But, again, it’s too late. They asked an unvaccinated person in Louisiana, experiencing a big outbreak right now, if they would get the vaccine now that Steve Scalise decided to get vaccinated. The guy started spouting the conspiracy theories etc. So, no, it doesn’t matter now if Fox talking heads start telling people to take it.
The damage has been done by weeks/months of misinformation.
Shameful.
“Well, yeah, they listed it at (basically) 2017 price, having updated the kitchen– new counters, backsplash and appliances, and painted the cabinets.”
Bidding war?
We’ll soon find out.
“This is where the bears get the housing market all wrong.”
This is where the shills start flinging feces around hoping that it distracts from their stupidity
“Why does anyone think that if you bought 2, 3, 4 or 5 years ago in Chicago that you are making money? Chicago home prices haven’t been going up at the rate to cover costs. And you need to cover at least 7% to cover your transaction costs upon selling”
Selling into a HAWT Market ™ w/ 4 years of ownership and a 3% return in not HAWT ™
A HAWT Market ™ includes rapid price appreciation
“Chicago’s market is red hot now. Prices ARE rising. But we’re not Boise or Austin. Prices aren’t up 30% in a year.”
Because a shill sez something, doesnt make it true. Honestly, that place on Greenview I thought would have sold higher (Including its on Irving).
“That doesn’t mean the housing market isn’t red hot. That doesn’t mean that prices aren’t rising here (just at a lower rate). That doesn’t mean that if you bought, and did nothing to your property, that you can sell 4 years later for buckets of money.”
Techincally you are correct, if the rate is increasing by 0.02648% its rising – Though that doesnt make it HAWT ™
“It does mean that the housing market is in a good place though. These home owners bought just 4 years ago. That’s not long enough to cover the transaction costs, normally. But now it is because prices HAVE gone up.”
And they are selling quickly when priced appropriately for this market.
This is all great news.”
Blah, Blah, Blah
“The Chicago housing market remains red hot. It’s the best market in 15 years. To say otherwise is, again, gaslighting.”
I cant back up anything I say – So I’m going to use a word that I dont know what it means and throw feces because I cant back up anything I say.
Imma gonna break it down for you, using the example you provided (Greenview) – The property increased 3% over 4 years. Even if you try and claim that all the appreciate was in the last year – thats still 3%
Definitely Not-HAWT ™
“They bring it home to the older parents and grandparents who ARE at risk. Not to mention the teachers in the classrooms.”
Hence why you vaccinate the at risk groups – not the ones that arent at risk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxjSuQXPAak&t=3s
re: deaths among the ‘fully vaccinated’:
I gthooi, and it seems that which vaccine was used for “full vaccination” is not being reported.
Given the wide discrepancy between the reported efficacy of the mRNA vaccines and the others (in the US, primarily the one-shot J&J), it seems likely that a disproportionate %age of the deaths are among those ‘fully vaccinated’ with less efficacious vaccines.
Had I gotten a J&J shot, I would probably be getting the mRNA shots now.
“Tucker just said to get the vaccine YESTERDAY with his viewers now dying.”
Shameful indeed. I think Fox and Co are now realizing that their lies are killing THEIR viewers and THEIR voters. Hard to win in 2024 if a greater % of THEIR viewers are dying from COVID.
Simply pathetic.
“Hence why you vaccinate the at risk groups – not the ones that arent at risk”
You vaccinate all groups to end a pandemic, not some. People who aren’t at risk can still SPREAD the disease and cause mutations.
““Well, yeah, they listed it at (basically) 2017 price, having updated the kitchen– new counters, backsplash and appliances, and painted the cabinets.”
Bidding war?
We’ll soon find out.”
You too can make up any scenario to fit your priors. You’re only limited by your imagination
It’s called cold & flu season. Happens every year. People get symptoms only a small fraction die, it’s those with compromised immune systems (age, obesity, other complications).
We are not walking over dead bodies on the streets, the hospitals ARE NOT full, they don’t need to create another hospital at McCormmick Place. Still, only 1 famous person has died from “COVID” in almost two years: Herman Cain.
It’s not a pandemic, the vaccines are unproven and now said to be ineffective in many cases, esp. with the new “delta” variant. The vaccines are dangerous enough.
It’s called cold & flu season. What happened to the common cold? the flu? LOL, calling it COVID or DELTA and scaring all the idiots.
It was easy to predict the “mutation” and the hysterical response to it. It’s called cold & flu season and every year is slightly different.
I read that in Israel 84% of the new Covid patients were previously vaccinated and it isn’t working.
“I’m just disgusted that so many people aren’t doing their patriotic duty by getting vaccinated, and that the right-wing media machine continues to drive anti-vaccine nonsense. It’s pretty close to being traitorous.”
Again, Dan, you live in the alternate universe that has no basis in reality, really, you do; look at the NPR article linked above. It’s not *right wing boomers* that are unvaccinated and refusing the vax. It’s poor people, both black and white and brown that are not vaxxed, like JohnnyU said.
You truly do live in a universe of talking points, fake news, and science denial.
I watch Tucker almost every day and not once has he ever said “Don’t take the vax”. He has been demanding transparency. He’s never once said “Don’t take it” and none of his guest have ever said “Don’t take it” and they repeatedly say “if the risk outweighs the benefit, don’t take it.” Which is common sense.
The rest of Fox News has been pro-vax since day one and even Trump himself told everyone to get the vax. The narrative doesn’t comport with the facts that it’s poor people of all races and political affiliations that are choosing not to get the vax.
Everyone here is smarter than the talking points come on now.
Drive by shooting in Old Town leaves 8 gunshot victims. What’s the reaction in Chicago? Blame the victims? Shield the criminals? Were the perps “teens” or “urban youth?” Is there a real effort by the mayor’s office and police dept to actually catch the criminals? If they do, do you think the DA will prosecute or ignore and blame others?
I lived in Chicago for 20 years but left when locals decided cops were the enemies and the criminals were the heroes.
“I watch Tucker almost every day”
I just needed to copy/paste that to be sure it was real.
Homedelete,
How do you think the average Fox News watcher interprets feces like this? https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-how-many-americans-have-died-after-taking-the-covid-vaccine
Helmethofer,
Do you manufacture your own lies or do you get them from other people?
“It’s called cold & flu season. Happens every year. People get symptoms only a small fraction die, it’s those with compromised immune systems (age, obesity, other complications).”
No flu season has killed 625K people in a long time. The nation’s life expectancy dropped last year by 1.9 years.
“the hospitals ARE NOT full, they don’t need to create another hospital at McCormmick Place.”
Many were. That’s a fact.
“Still, only 1 famous person has died from “COVID” in almost two years: Herman Cain.”
Not that it matters but here is one list: https://www.wonderwall.com/celebrity/stars-who-died-coronavirus-covid-19-3022682.gallery?photoId=416148
“now said to be ineffective in many cases, esp. with the new “delta” variant. The vaccines are dangerous enough.”
Every day 250 unvaccinated die. I’m not hearing about people dying from the vaccine.
“I read that in Israel 84% of the new Covid patients were previously vaccinated and it isn’t working.”
Why don’t you share a link?
“Gary do you honestly believe that looking at the aggregate data provides any value relative to where were at today?”
Valid point but it cuts both ways. The monoclonal antibodies have been extremely effective in treating the disease but at least one of the ones used is not effective against Delta. We’re playing Russian roulette and need to stop.
Unfortunately, the problem is bigger than the US. As long as huge portions of the planet are not vaccinated we are screwed. But we can only influence what we have some control over.
“Why don’t you share a link?”
If he drove any normies to that site, he’d get drummed out of the group.
Here’s an actual cite, from this week:
“more than 60% of those hospitalized with coronavirus are fully vaccinated” but only one of those 37 was under 60, and none under 50.
“Meanwhile, among the unvaccinated, 14 people under age 50 were in serious condition, two of whom were younger than 40.” out of 24 unvaccinated patients.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/just-one-serious-covid-patient-in-israel-is-both-vaccinated-and-under-60-tv/
I think G*d is mad at the Boomers.
“Everyone here is smarter than the talking points come on now.”
No they arent.
Very few are interested in facts or actually looking at the source data to see if it jives with whats being reported. Its much easier to have the narrative set up by their team, then its a self referencing loop
“As of Sunday afternoon, there were 6,598 active COVID cases in Israel, with 121 hospitalized, 61 in serious condition and 14 on ventilators.”
Population 9.1 million
Extrapolate that to Chicago MSA, population 9 million. “121 hospitalized”.
Does this equate to “hospitals being overrun”? Why isn’t COVID ripping through Gaza? It’s not like under the apartheid system they have adequate health care. Why hasn’t COVID killed off the homeless population? Why is the US-Canada border still closed because of COVID but the Left is OK with >100,000 of unmasked and untested illegals crossing the southern US border?
“Report indicates more than 60% of those hospitalized with coronavirus are fully vaccinated”
The experimental and untested/unproven vaccines aren’t working as planned.
Here’s a video of China, they’re not shut down over a cold & flu statistical hoax. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QVrzr2Npuw
Gary: that list of famous old people deaths and the younger GRIDS deaths reminds me of past montages of actor deaths shown at the Oscar TV broadcast. To claim those deaths are COVID is probably not true
Yet, JohnnyU hasn’t cited a single source to any of his comments and is now sticking up for Hannity and Carlson. Shocking, it’s almost as if he learned to pretend to make factual comments from watching someone on television.
Gary, there is so much bigotry in your comment, and you lack the self-awareness to even recognize that maybe it is you who is in fact the unthinking rube who lacks critical thinking skills.
Tucker has an audience of about what, 3,000,000 a night? But there tens of millions of unvaccinated people out there? How can tens of millions be unvaccinated when only 3M people a night watch Tucker Carlson? What about all those south suburban communities with 20% vax rates, I hear Tucker Carlson is super popular in Ford Heights!
I read that article and every question he asked is a fair question.
I mean, fake VP Kamala Harris said she would NEVER trust a Trump vaccine, yet here she is months later, telling me that I MUST take a Trump vaccine….
“People are dying again. Jacksonville Florida hospitals filling up. Same with Houston.”
So kind of like last July/August because it’s hot and humid in the south so people hang-out indoors. Cases will peak down there by Labor Day.
Jacksonville hospitals are not “filling-up”. There ICU capacity hasn’t been below 75% full since last September.
Total hospitalizations are barely above half of January’s peak…..
https://covidactnow.org/us/florida-fl/county/duval_county/?s=20901011
“People are dying again. Jacksonville Florida hospitals filling up. Same with Houston.”
Here’s Houston. 119 hospitalized with Covid. In January it was almost 400….
Yeah it’s really “filling up”….
https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/tmc-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations/
“Yet, JohnnyU hasn’t cited a single source to any of his comments and is now sticking up for Hannity and Carlson. Shocking, it’s almost as if he learned to pretend to make factual comments from watching someone on television.”
Is the answer Rachel Maddow?
I didn’t make the initial claim, so normally the onus isn’t on me, but since I’m a nice guy I’ll spot you one -https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1392293884282036226
Que meltdown and throwing of feces in T minus…
“The death rate isn’t 0.2%, either. No. It’s 1.8%. If you’re going to cite stats, at least get them right.”
This is lazy analysis. It’s much higher than 1.8% if you are over 70 and unvaccinated. It’s always been significantly lower than 1.8% if you are under 60 regardless of vaccination status.
“If I were told the plane I was getting on had a 1.8% of fatally crashing, I wouldn’t board it, would you?”
This is again a lazy interpretation as it assumes everyone has the same risk. We are not all on the same plane when it comes to Covid….
“It’s spreading very quickly in the “red” states, by the way, even more so than in the cities, despite what some people here want you to believe.”
And in March of 2020 it was spreading very quickly in the “blue” states especially in the “blue” cities…. how did that workout?
“Then all the anti-vaxxers (meaning a lot of right wingers as well as a lot of poorly educated people in the cities,”
Why are right wingers “anti-vaxxers” but you label urban dwellers as “poorly educated”…
“many of whom were minorities)”
Oh it’s a race thing for you. Got it.
Another upper middle class white-liberal looking down on the masses “if only they could be like me….”
“Tucker has an audience of about what, 3,000,000 a night? But there tens of millions of unvaccinated people out there? How can tens of millions be unvaccinated when only 3M people a night watch Tucker Carlson?”
First, I wasn’t arguing the impact of Tucker Carlson. I was pointing out that what you said about him was in fact not true. He has been anti-vax and it will be seen that way by his viewers. BTW, it’s not the same 3 MM every night is it?
“I mean, fake VP Kamala Harris said she would NEVER trust a Trump vaccine”
Go back and listen to exactly what she said. She said she wouldn’t take his word for it. Neither would I.
“In debate, Kamala Harris says she won’t take a COVID vaccine just on Trump’s say-so”
https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-says-she-wont-take-covid-vaccine-just-on-trumps-sayso-020511962.html
“First, I wasn’t arguing the impact of Tucker Carlson. I was pointing out that what you said about him was in fact not true. He has been anti-vax and it will be seen that way by his viewers. BTW, it’s not the same 3 MM every night is it?”
I read the entire article. I don’t see anything in there anti-vax. Can you show me where it is anti-vax? All I see is him asking questions that no one wants to answer. In fact, he’s the only person asking question.
Sly authoritarian move there Gary, asking question about the Vax makes you Anti-Vax.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelBerrySho/status/1418292284202930180
“I wonder if Pfizer could possibly make other other drugs or vaccines we’ll learn years from now cause cancer or other maladies? No worries. Just do what all the important people say & submit. Questioning kills people.”
New York Post
@nypost
13 hours again
*Pfizer recalls anti-smoking drug Chantix due to cancer-causing chemical*
Tucker should stop asking a bunch of idiotic questions and try instead of provide answers based on science/facts. He gets away with spewing garbage because he flips it around by claiming he’s just asking a question. He’ll never stop asking his questions because he knows it’s a good way of manipulating people. Then, his audience gets to feel smart because they “thought” about all of his “deep” questions and came to their own conclusion.
““Report indicates more than 60% of those hospitalized with coronavirus are fully vaccinated”
The experimental and untested/unproven vaccines aren’t working as planned.”
Your looking at the wrong percentage to conclude that the vaccine is not working. In fact, the same article says “Health Ministry figures released in early July indicated that the Pfizer COVID vaccine is only 64% effective in preventing infection, but it remains 93% effective at preventing hospitalization and serious symptoms.” How can both be true? Any number of ways. The vaccinated get more exposure because they feel protected. More of the vaccinated are older and more vulnerable.
The percentage you need to look at is hospitalizations vs. exposure, which is what those studies do.
“To claim those deaths are COVID is probably not true”
Based on what evidence?
I have a condo in FL and I can assure there is no pandemic or mass hospitalizations happening, I’ll be there again in 2 weeks and check in for ya. I get to Chicago or LA and it’s all doom porn and fear. You people are beyond fucking retarded. OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK, THERE IS NO PANDEMIC. You blue state crusaders can commit suicide but TX and FL are kicking your ass and going to keep kicking your asses economically and population wise. Just because some pharma backed captured bureaucrats put out a graph with dark red over the south doesn’t mean people are dying in a mass pandemic. The absolute retardation and gullibility of Americans now is frightening. The people behind this have taken over the western world without firing a shot, good job, explain to your grandkids how you were too big a pussy to stand up to them by simply refusing to play along.
PS I do live here and own a home in Chicago and travel extensively, especially to the west coast and our family shack in FL. The country is laughing at you. Besides the media complex and a few big population centers nobody in America gives a shit about this “pandemic” and if you keep this crap up it’s going to get violent. And when it does it’s going to be you morons’ fault for playing along with it.
“I have a condo in FL and I can assure there is no pandemic or mass hospitalizations happening,”
Denial is so scary!
Jacksonville: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/northeast-florida-hospitals-returning-covid-19-peak-amid/story?id=78973628
Helmethofer,
So how do you decide which random Internet dudes to listen to?
BTW, no need to look to Israel for data on vaccinated hospitalizations. https://www.npr.org/2021/07/16/1017012853/97-of-people-entering-hospitals-for-covid-19-are-unvaccinated No idea why Israel’s data is so different. Who knows what impact religious customs have in a pandemic?
“The country is laughing at you. Besides the media complex and a few big population centers nobody in America gives a shit about this “pandemic””
This is why so many people are going to die in this fourth wave. The virus doesn’t care if you don’t give a shit. It will simply kill you.
Ugh. It didn’t have to be this way. The virus didn’t have to be politicized. Our poor doctors and nurses.
https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/since-july-1-missouris-covid-case-average-has-jumped-161-hospitalizations-have-increased-58/
“As of July 19, Missouri is reporting 1,532 COVID hospitalizations and a rolling 7-day average of 1,446. The remaining inpatient hospital bed capacity sits at 20% statewide. The state’s public health care metrics lag behind by three days due to reporting delays, especially on weekends. Keep in mind that the state counts all beds available and not just beds that are staffed by medical personnel.
On July 6, the 7-day rolling average for hospitalizations eclipsed the 1,000-person milestone for the first time in four months, with 1,013 patients. The 7-day average for hospitalizations had previously been over 1,000 from Sept. 16, 2020, to March 5, 2021. It was over 2,000 from Nov. 9, 2020, to Jan. 27, 2021.
The 2021 low point on the hospitalization average across was 655 on May 29.
Across the state, 483 COVID patients are in ICU beds, leaving the state’s remaining intensive care capacity at 19%.”
“I wonder if Pfizer could possibly make other other drugs or vaccines we’ll learn years from now cause cancer or other maladies? No worries. Just do what all the important people say & submit. Questioning kills people.”
Why aren’t you attacking Moderna homedelete? Because you can’t find anything negative on them?
It’s so sad. None of this is a surprise. In 1918 the very same types of people were saying the same shit about that pandemic. And with every vaccine the anti-vaxxers come out with their same conspiracies. Meanwhile, science continues to save lives. Average life span in America has doubled in the last 100 years thanks to the scientists.
“Go back and listen to exactly what she said. She said she wouldn’t take his word for it. Neither would I.”
After he told people to drink bleach?
Yeah. No.
This is why misinformation is so damaging.
“And in March of 2020 it was spreading very quickly in the “blue” states especially in the “blue” cities…. how did that workout?”
California has another outbreak. They don’t have enough vaccinated either. I wouldn’t be eating indoors in LA right now, nor going to a concert indoors or out, or hanging out in a coffee shop in Venice Beach.
EVERY state is going to have outbreaks. Some worse than others. Connecticut and Massachusetts are the only ones with herd level vaccination. But they still have millions unvaccinated.
Englewood is just 30% vaccinated in Chicago. There’s going to be a big outbreak there.
The virus doesn’t care red or blue. But it just so happens that many more red are unvaccinated than the blues. Who’s most at risk?
It didn’t have to be like this. And now Florida and Texas, because of politics, will dig in their heels. No restrictions, masks, nothing. Will people simply do the behavior themselves instead to protect themselves? We’ll see. But the workers in these establishments CAN’T protect themselves. They are working.
A handful of restaurants in LA have decided to close this week after a worker got infected and with the virus spreading rapidly.
“I read the entire article. I don’t see anything in there anti-vax. Can you show me where it is anti-vax? All I see is him asking questions that no one wants to answer. In fact, he’s the only person asking question.”
No, he’s not just asking questions. I don’t see how you can read that and not get anti-vax out of it. First, he’s asking questions in a way to suggest that there is a conspiracy to hide the truth. Then he provides misinformation about the deaths. https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines
He goes on to say “The actual number is almost certainly much higher than that — perhaps vastly higher.” and “in 1976, the U.S. government vaccinated 45 million people with a vaccine for the swine flu. Fifty-three people reportedly died after getting that shot. The U.S. government immediately halted the vaccination program. Authorities decided it was too risky, it wasn’t worth it. ”
The guy clearly wants his viewers living in fear of the vaccine.
“Here’s Houston. 119 hospitalized with Covid. In January it was almost 400….
Yeah it’s really “filling up”….'”
This is why people are just so damn dumb. And why the next several months will be a tragedy.
The virus is literally doubling every 7 days. It’s not last year’s virus WP. This is the variant. Look at how quickly it spread in the UK, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia. It’s now HERE.
I saw a Houston ER doc interviewed yesterday. He said last Monday they had 3 COVID patients. This Monday they had 30. What will it be by next Monday? 60?
It is spreading unchecked. Among an unvaccinated population. No masks, no social distancing, everyone sitting inside in air conditioning. The Delta Variant can transmit within 8 seconds.
The doctors know what’s coming. They’re scared, and tired. They’ve done this 3 other times. They thought they were done by April. That they were “free.” But no. Americans are too stupid. Didn’t get the vaccine.
Dumb.
And it was FREE.
Here’s Dallas WP.
I guess this isn’t really “filling up” either.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/north-texas-health-officials-warn-that-covid-19-cases-hospitalizations-could-return-to-surge-levels
The latest forecast from UT-Southwestern predicts that by early August, Dallas County will have up to 500 COVID-19 hospitalizations, and up to 700 in Tarrant County.
Local healthcare workers are seeing these numbers climb firsthand.
“It is for real, that that is what I can tell you. About four weeks ago, we were at seven patients in-house, and today, I’m at 40 patients,” explained Parkland Hospital Chief Medical Officer Dr. Joseph Chang.
Dr. Chang said almost all of those patients are unvaccinated.
“So kind of like last July/August because it’s hot and humid in the south so people hang-out indoors. Cases will peak down there by Labor Day.”
Yes! Duh. Only the virus is 5x more virulent and transmissible, no one is wearing masks or social distancing. They are all inside in their air conditioning.
Many more people are going to die.
What a tragedy.
All of this could have been avoided. It shouldn’t be like this. A virus shouldn’t be politicized. But it was.
Stupid.
“Tucker has an audience of about what, 3,000,000 a night? But there tens of millions of unvaccinated people out there?”
It starts at the top. Those with the biggest mega-phones. Through the spring, Fox was on board with trying to get the vaccine rolled out. For whatever reason, they decided to change course and started doing anti-vax segments and talking about how Biden is going to send people door to door to “make” you take the vaccine. And then there was “freedom” and “choice” and all that other bullshit.
And now Fox and the anti-vaxxers on social media sites have planted the seeds about there being a microchip in it that will track you. That it’s poison. That it will kill you. That thousands have died from the vaccine but they’re hiding it. That it messes with your DNA so you will die 5 years from now from cancer. And on and on.
Now we know why those who said the earth was not flat were persecuted and why scientists throughout the ages have been burned at the stake.
So sad.
“Extrapolate that to Chicago MSA, population 9 million. “121 hospitalized”.”
There are 3200 hospitalized with COVID in Florida right now. Outbreak is just a few weeks old. Hospitalizations lag, as we know. But Israel has vaccinated a larger percentage of their population. Florida has not. There are literally millions of hosts for Delta to inhabit there.
Also, how ironic that HH, of all people, is using a video from China to “prove” that COVID is no big deal.
Lol.
Vietnam has shut down for the first time during the pandemic. Thailand too.
Nike factories shut in Vietnam now.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/19/nike-could-run-out-of-shoes-from-vietnam-as-covid-worsens-sp-global.html
Thailand just reported a record high 13,000 cases.
Ugh. Yikes. No Thailand. You were doing so well. But the Delta doesn’t care. Once it gets in, it just spreads. Not enough vaccinated in Thailand.
They’ve shut domestic air travel into Bangkok. Trying to keep it out of the biggest cities as much as possible. Ugh.
https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/domestic-flights-bangkok-suspended
Don’t worry. Right Ed? There’s NO pandemic. Everyone is laughing at those who think there is.
There are record cases all over Southeast Asia.
https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/3142033/coronavirus-singapores-marina-bay-sands-casino-closes-after-outbreak
Here we are again. Over a year after the virus first hit and the Chatterati covid deniers are back denying.
I guess I can’t say I’m surprised.
nonny must have missed the party bus in lincoln park the other evening
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/8-wounded-in-drive-by-shooting-near-party-bus-in-lincoln-park/2561442/
“Eight people were wounded in a drive-by shooting Wednesday night in the Lincoln Park neighborhood on Chicago’s North Side, according to police.
Just before midnight, the group had been traveling on a party bus when a dark-gray and a black Jeep Grand Cherokee pulled up to them in the 1600 block of North LaSalle Drive and someone inside the car fired shots, Chicago police said.”
“Que meltdown”
Spanglish? Even for Spanglish that makes no sense.
Cue
Queue
Q
but not “Que”
“But it just so happens that many more red are unvaccinated than the blues. Who’s most at risk?”
Unvaccinated fat people over the age of 60. Same as it’s been since the beginning.
“He said last Monday they had 3 COVID patients. This Monday they had 30. What will it be by next Monday? 60?”
If it’s only 60, that’ll be a great sign–dropping from 10x to 2x. MASSIVE slowdown.
“The virus is literally doubling every 7 days. It’s not last year’s virus WP. This is the variant. Look at how quickly it spread in the UK, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia. It’s now HERE.”
Last year we didn’t have a vaccine. Before you do these stupid comparisons go lack at the vaccination rates of these countries compared to the US….
The UK just got their act together in the last two months or so. Their vaccine rollout was a disaster for the first 4+ months.
Thailand 5% fully vaccinated
Vietnam 0.3% fully vaccinated
Indonesia 6% fully vaccinated
United States 48% fully vaccinated
” People who aren’t at risk can still SPREAD the disease and cause mutations.”
how the fuck are you going to spread a disease you don’t have to someone who’s supposedly immune… this gigantic hole in logic hasn’t been answered for me just yet… and why probably multiple studies have shown that schools aren’t vectors for spread
“After he told people to drink bleach?”
That never happened, fake news!
“Here’s Dallas WP.
I guess this isn’t really “filling up” either.”
You cited Houston and Jacksonville which was fake news so now you are moving on to a new city. let’s see what we got.
“The latest forecast from UT-Southwestern predicts that by early August, Dallas County will have up to 500 COVID-19 hospitalizations, and up to 700 in Tarrant County.”
So you have nothing then only predictions which have been mostly wrong since the beginning of Covid……
I predict I could be hit by lightning in the next month…… Check back in come Labor Day and if i’m wrong i’ll make a new prediction.
“It is for real, that that is what I can tell you. About four weeks ago, we were at seven patients in-house, and today, I’m at 40 patients,” explained Parkland Hospital Chief Medical Officer Dr. Joseph Chang.
Dr. Chang said almost all of those patients are unvaccinated.”
So it’s only real for unvaccinated, fat, old people same as it’s been since the beginning…. Yawn….
“California has another outbreak. They don’t have enough vaccinated either. I wouldn’t be eating indoors in LA right now, nor going to a concert indoors or out, or hanging out in a coffee shop in Venice Beach.”
JB is going to Lolla with his wife and a few friends next weekend. Apparently he isn’t worried about going to a concert but you are. Why?
I don’t blame you for wanting to stay away from Venice Beach or most beaches in Cali which have been overrun by homeless.
“Yes! Duh. Only the virus is 5x more virulent and transmissible, no one is wearing masks or social distancing. They are all inside in their air conditioning.”
but not more deadly? Ok… so the risk is effectively the same. Thanks. Oh wait the risk is less why because we have vaccines and half the country has taken one already.
So again as a vaccinated individual, not really worried if it’s 5x, 10x, or 100x more virulent.
People make choices. People live with the consequences. I don’t know why you are freaking out so much.
Plenty of people die every day that didn’t need to die but it happens. Society moves on. Sun comes up in the east and sets in the west.
“someone who’s supposedly immune”
No one with any actual credibility has said that the vaccine conferred true immunity.
“No one with any actual credibility has said that the vaccine conferred true immunity.”
Biden:
“Senior officials have sought to underscore that unvaccinated people are almost exclusively at risk for serious illness or death. The President himself made that point during a CNN town hall on Wednesday while pointing to the dramatically improved situation since he took office in January.
“We have a pandemic for those who haven’t gotten the vaccination — it’s that basic, that simple,” he said, adding: “You’re not going to get Covid if you have these vaccinations.”
His comments amounted to an exaggeration of the vaccines’ protection against the disease; even one of his own White House officials tested positive for Covid-19 this week, despite being fully vaccinated. However, most studies continue to show the vaccines overwhelmingly reduce the odds of severe disease that puts people in the hospital or even kills them.”
https://kvia.com/video/2021/07/22/i-was-disappointed-dr-wen-reacts-to-bidens-answer-on-covid-19-vaccine-2/
“but not more deadly? Ok… so the risk is effectively the same. Thanks. Oh wait the risk is less why because we have vaccines and half the country has taken one already.”
We’ve had nearly 700,000 people die in this country from this virus. Most of them were not vaccinated.
The virus will continue to do it’s thing. It doesn’t take a genius to figure it out.
The key is to save our hospitals. We cannot operate as a country with our hospitals shutting down elective surgeries and having no room for other emergencies.
Additionally, the economy could take another hit.
Who wants that?
Oh wait, the bears who actively root against America. That’s right. The bears on this site who want America to fail, for whatever reason.
“You cited Houston and Jacksonville which was fake news so now you are moving on to a new city. let’s see what we got”
Houston and Jacksonville ARE filling up. Can you add?
Miami, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Los Angeles. All are having outbreaks. All are seeing cases rise in their hospitals.
We’ve been through this 3 times in the past. Haven’t you figured out what happens next?
My god. The stupidity on this blog.
“That never happened, fake news!”
I guess I’m living in an alternative universe Sonies. He definitely DID say to drink bleach. And some idiots DID.
But the ex-president isn’t exactly a Rhodes Scholar, as we know.
It was all about misinformation. Remember “it will be gone by Easter?”
Lol.
“Unvaccinated fat people over the age of 60. Same as it’s been since the beginning.”
You’re so ignorant WP.
If that was true, how can they be having an outbreak in Florida? Something like 70% of those over age 65 have been vaccinated.
Who’s in the hospitals? Who is dying?
Is it still the old fat people or someone else?
Florida doesn’t fit your “theory” WP.
Huh. Go figure.
“nonny must have missed the party bus in lincoln park the other evening”
It wasn’t in Lincoln Park, sonies. So, yeah, that’s why he missed it.
The shooting took place at Chicago and LaSalle at the BP gas station. You know the one.
Also, lots of weird things coming out of that shooting, but more will come out, I’m sure.
Washington DC just had a mass shooting on 14th street tonight while everyone was dining out and eating dinner.
It’s not just Chicago right now. Every city is seeing an increase in violence.
“It wasn’t in Lincoln Park, sonies. So, yeah, that’s why he missed it.
The shooting took place at Chicago and LaSalle at the BP gas station. You know the one.”
Sorry- this is wrong. It was at the other BP gas station- the one that IS near Lincoln Park. Lol. We all know that one too.
But either way, there is weirdness about this shooting.
Also, what’s the point of requiring a security guard on the party buses?
Won’t matter in a mass shooting like this.
“I guess I’m living in an alternative universe Sonies. He definitely DID say to drink bleach. And some idiots DID.”
He made a totally idiotic comment but he did not suggest that people should drink bleach. The left does not help their cause when they make that claim.
Here is the exact statement: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/
“But the ex-president isn’t exactly a Rhodes Scholar, as we know.
It was all about misinformation. Remember “it will be gone by Easter?”
Lol.”
For the umpteenth time, COVID is just a new name for cold & flu seasonal. The current flu (called COVID) has a 99% survival rate, and miraculously the previous flus and common colds vanished!
Sabrina is a prototype for the hysterical Karen stereotype. I’ll take it a step further and state that Suffrage was a major American mistake. When you have people like Sabrina and Lightfoot actually affecting policy, you can see how dysfunctional it all is.
Trump was not a Rhodes Scholar, but smarmy weasel Bill CLinton was. Why? Because being a Rhodes Scholar is actually a sign that one is clueless, and the candidates are chosen to be MOLDED into New World Order apparatchiks. Read up on who Cecil Rhodes was and the masonic elements to all of the stuff. It’s is actually a badge of honor that Trump was not a Rhodes Scholar and is hated by them. Trump, the American, has all the right enemies. A man with Trump’s enemies is a person of virtue. Sabrina just doesn’t understand men and how many things work. She can never be a man, so cannot understand the basic underpinnings of Western Civilization.
That guy who posted before, Ed, is exactly right. Go visit the Sarasota coast of FL all the way down to Marco Island. It’s all open for business and booming and people are happy and free, not under the dark clouds of Sabrina/Karen and the Lightfoots of the world.
“ “I guess I’m living in an alternative universe Sonies. He definitely DID say to drink bleach. And some idiots DID.”
He made a totally idiotic comment but he did not suggest that people should drink bleach. The left does not help their cause when they make that claim.
Here is the exact statement: https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/”
Sabrina lie? Unpossible
She’s got Rupar’d
“ If that was true, how can they be having an outbreak in Florida? Something like 70% of those over age 65 have been vaccinated.”
Fl had 59 deaths last week
Interesting that the case counts have been rising but deaths dropping?
http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_partners/covid19_report_archive/covid19-data/covid19_data_latest.pdf
“Fl had 59 deaths last week
Interesting that the case counts have been rising but deaths dropping?”
—————————-
Not at all. The Delta variant hits younger people. They get hospitalized — thereby straining the medical system — but they don’t die.
The important fact is the cost and strain the unvaccinated are putting on the health care system.You don’t have to be at death’s door to do that.
“The key is to save our hospitals. We cannot operate as a country with our hospitals shutting down elective surgeries and having no room for other emergencies.”
We did it last year when no one was vaccinated for long periods of time. Today half the country is vaccinated and another ~20%+ have already recovered from the virus. We passed three rounds of stimulus with hundreds of billions going to hospitals. Why would hospitals go under now? Also, don’t you think Congress would provide more money to hospitals across the country if this turned out to be an actual issue?
Seriously, what are you talking about….
“Additionally, the economy could take another hit.”
The economy will only take a hit if mayors or governors mandate closures again. The only ones that would do that is the “blue cities and states” who have the higher vaccination rates. So why do that?
“Oh wait, the bears who actively root against America. That’s right. The bears on this site who want America to fail, for whatever reason”
Ok MAGA or KAGA…. did America economically fail last year when no one was vaccinated and the economy was shut-down across the county…. No.
How many businesses are desperate to hire people right now… literally anyone with a pulse that will show-up on time.
You live in an alternative universe Sabrina.
“Miami, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Los Angeles. All are having outbreaks. All are seeing cases rise in their hospitals.”
LA’s current Covid hospitalization – 645 people. For a county with 10 million people….. that’s not much.
Miami current Covid hospitalization 412 people with 70%+ of Miami Dade’s population vaccinated. In January they had over 1,000 people hospitalized with very few vaccinated.
Louisiana – In the entire state there is 913 people hospitalized. New Orleans doesn’t report hospitalizations. 80% of the over 70 population is vaccinated, 70% of the over 60 population as well… The State had over 2,000 hospitalized back in January.
You freaked out in April that we would go back into lockdown which was completely wrong. More people are vaccinated today then in April.
Stop with the fear porn. Feel free to hide under your bed until next year if you want.
Apologies forgot about Clark County for Las Vegas:
5% of licensed hospital beds are occupied by Covid-19 patients and 75% of beds are currently occupied….
“We’ve been through this 3 times in the past. Haven’t you figured out what happens next?”
We went through this 3 times without a vaccine not to mention 100% of the population being susceptible to Covid since no one had ever had it before….
The facts have changed.
“My god. The stupidity on this blog.”
Is this a self-own?
“You’re so ignorant WP.
If that was true, how can they be having an outbreak in Florida? Something like 70% of those over age 65 have been vaccinated.
Who’s in the hospitals? Who is dying?
Is it still the old fat people or someone else?
Florida doesn’t fit your “theory” WP.”
Here again for the 5th time I will post facts from the CDC showing you it’s unvaccinated fat people. Further, as a percentage of the population the south has the most fat people in the county. Look at obesity rates by state. It’s not hard to figure out.
The study: “Body Mass Index and Risk for COVID-19–Related Hospitalization, Intensive Care Unit Admission, Invasive Mechanical Ventilation, and Death — United States, March–December 2020”
“Among 148,494 U.S. adults with COVID-19, a nonlinear relationship was found between body mass index (BMI) and COVID-19 severity, with lowest risks at BMIs near the threshold between healthy weight and overweight in most instances, then increasing with higher BMI. Overweight and obesity were risk factors for invasive mechanical ventilation. Obesity was a risk factor for hospitalization and death, particularly among adults aged <65 years."
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm
“Florida doesn’t fit your “theory” WP.”
Again you are wrong. Florida is 44th out of 50 states in Obesity rate of 27% of the population having BMI’s over 30.
Further, who has the oldest population in the country? Florida….
Who is most at risk of severe Covid outcomes the elderly and the obese….
Good lord.
“ Not at all. The Delta variant hits younger people. They get hospitalized — thereby straining the medical system — but they don’t die.”
Do you have a link for Delta Vs Std Covid and Age of hospitalized?
Based upon the CDC data, it doesn’t support your thesis
Old folks> 60 still are the largest cohorts – see pg 2
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#new-hospital-admissions
“Not at all. The Delta variant hits younger people. They get hospitalized — thereby straining the medical system — but they don’t die.”
Go look at any state. The older you are the higher the vaccination rate. Young people aren’t going to the hospital in higher numbers as before it’s that they represent a higher percentage of hospitalizations because this age group has lower vaccination rates compared to older age groups.
Out of 10,957 Covid-19 Deaths in Cook County 274 deaths under the age of 40 and 72 deaths under the age of 30….
Your more likely to get wounded and hospitalized or shot to death in Cook County if you are under the age of 40 then die or be hospitalized of Covid.
Where do I go to pick up my free bullet proof vest for when i leave my apartment? I’ll wear a mask to pick it up too.
https://maps.cookcountyil.gov/medexamcovid19/
The only people still wining about Covid are middle aged upper income vaccinated white liberals because their probability of dying increased from like 0.0001% to 0.0002% and that scared the crap out of them…
These upper income middle aged vaccinated white liberals are still fine with lockdowns because they can work from home without the risk of losing their job, their house, etc.
These upper income middle aged vaccinated white liberals will gladly screw the poor so their risk of death goes back to 0.0001%.
“For the umpteenth time, COVID is just a new name for cold & flu seasonal. The current flu (called COVID) has a 99% survival rate, and miraculously the previous flus and common colds vanished!”
You calling it the flu over and over doesn’t make it true. When was the last time that a flu killed 625,000 people?
“When was the last time that a flu killed 625,000 people?”
Shouldn’t we be talking about deaths/population? Spanish Flu in the US killed about the same number as C-19 (so far), but with ~1/3 of the population.
Even changing to rate, the answer is: Spanish Flu.
650k is more than than the Flu deaths from the 10 prior flu seasons (ie, back to 2010-11) combined. Like 80% more.
“Even changing to rate, the answer is: Spanish Flu.”
Of course. And they were fighting it with 1918 technology. Penicillin hadn’t even been invented and it’s my understanding that a lot of people died from bacterial pneumonia while having the Spanish flu. If it happened today the mortality rate would have to be a lot lower.
More importantly lets look at Illinois. 90% of the 65+ population is vaccinated and 75% of the 18+ population.
When Sabrina said in April we are going to shut-down again we peaked at ~2,300 hospitalizations. Even with this so called “surge” Illinois covid-19 hospitalizations are 628 literally 25% of when Sabrina said shut-downs should happen back in April.
Last summer when we began to “re-open” the first time covid hospitalizations never went below 1400 people or over 2x from where we are today.
In November when we did shut-down again hospitalizations peaked at over 6,000 or 10x from where we are today.
Yet Sabrina calls this a “4th surge” and runs around saying the hospitals are going to fail, postpone elective surgeries, and deaths are going to skyrocket……
Turning off MSNBC and Maddow would probably be good for your health…. She is just as dangerous with anti-vax propaganda as the people you complain about on Fox.
Get in reality.
Illinois is not the problem. It’s Florida, Texas, and Missouri. Don’t know if their hospitals will be overwhelmed or not but that’s really the key consideration. Deaths of the unvaccinated…if by choice….well….
The other consideration is the long term risk for Children who get infected. I think it’s low but the experts are not so sure.
“Illinois is not the problem. It’s Florida, Texas, and Missouri.”
The vaccination numbers tell a different story…
Vaccinated percentages based on total population:
Illinois: 47.8% Fully; 61.2% at least one dose
Florida: 47.9% Fully; 55.9% at least one dose
Texas: 43.1% Fully; 50.1% at least one dose
Missouri: 40.5% Fully; 47.2% at least one dose
The spikes are seasonal based on when the population mainly stays indoors. Same as last year. Same as always.
Who wants to be outside in Florida, Texas, and Southwest Missouri in July?
Dallas forecast 100 degrees for the next week. Yeah no thank you.
Jacksonville 90 degrees and 70% humidity for the next week. Yeah no thank you.
Springfield, Missouri 90 – 95 for the next week. Yeah no thank you.
“the long term risk for [everyone] who get infected”
As with every part of this that involves more than 2 years of knowledge, the answer is:
We don’t know (yet).
Do we know if the vaccines provide durable protection against variants? Do we know that the infected have risk of reinfection with variants? If there is variant reinfection risk, are outcomes better or worse?
We don’t–and indeed cannot, yet–know. Are there reasons, based on analogy to other viruses, to be hopeful that all of the answers are “good”? Yup. But anyone pretending to *know* is just pretending.
“Illinois is not the problem. It’s Florida, Texas, and Missouri.”
Cook County: 48.8% fully; 59.7% one dose
Miami-Dade: >75% have one dose….
Duval County (Jacksonville): 41.2% fully; 47.7% at least one dose
Dallas County: 42.5% fully; 49.6% one dose
Harris County (Houston): 44.1% fully; 51.4% one dose
Travis County (Austin): 53.4% fully; 61.2% one dose
St. Louis County: 47.8% fully; 55.2% one dose
Greene County (Springfield): 35.8% fully; 41.9% one dose
Outside of Greene County looks like the population centers of Florida, Texas and Missouri have similar vaccination rates as Cook. Some are even better…..
Further, the Statewide vaccinations are largely in line with where Illinois is. Soooo…..
Of course this is a multi-variate problem. But cultural norms is a key variable also. When we were in TN we rarely saw people with masks. I doubt unvaccinated people in TX and FL are wearing masks. And it’s also a function of how much people gather in groups.
And MO’s 40% vaccination rate is pretty bad.
And it’s not just state by state…it’s county by county. Illinois looks much better than the hotspot states.https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/13/covid-cases-rise-in-us-counties-with-low-vaccination-rates-as-delta-variant-spreads.html
Their bodies, their choice. There’s nothing more to say about the matter. Checkmate.
“It wasn’t in Lincoln Park, sonies. So, yeah, that’s why he missed it.
The shooting took place at Chicago and LaSalle at the BP gas station. You know the one. ”
do you even live in Chicago? That gas station is at North and LaSalle like the article stated, 1600 north… I guess you could get technical and call it Old town…
“I guess I’m living in an alternative universe Sonies. He definitely DID say to drink bleach. And some idiots DID. ”
yeah, I think you’re on to something there…
mandela effect or something…
“Their bodies, their choice. There’s nothing more to say about the matter. Checkmate.”
I’m totally OK with that PROVIDED that we can kick the unvaccinated out of an ICU bed if it’s needed by someone else. You should be OK with that since 1) there will not be a shortage of ICU beds 2) they just have the flu
“at Chicago and LaSalle at the BP gas station. You know the one.”
Sorry- this is wrong. It was at the other BP gas station”
When was the last time there was a gas station at the corner of Chicago and LaSalle? Before Amoco became BP, if ever.
The NE corner was a Checkers, before being a vacant lot for *years*, right? And the SE has been a currency exchange for a long time. Was one of them a gas station in the 80s?
Or did you mean Ontario and LaSalle?
Even teHof does a better job of googling than that.
“650k is more than than the Flu deaths from the 10 prior flu seasons (ie, back to 2010-11) combined. Like 80% more.”
Prove it. Everyone knows now that the cold & flu have miraculously disappeared that EVERYTHING and ANYTHING under the sun is now classified as “Covid”. Even when someone is 87 years old with complications, they call that a “Covid death”.
The numbers are faked, the books are cooked. Even the Covid tests are UNRELIABLE. The rapid Covid test is a joke, with some many false positives. I read how they had to re-engineer the Covid testing protocols, something about changing “iterations” so they could pick up more positives. Of course, in our Orwellian censorship society, all data that doesn’t fit the lies/narrative is suppressed by google and bing.
You’d have to be a class A idiot to believe the 600,000 death figure. Completely untrustworthy.
So our US Gvt. which was despised and not trusted when it was run by GWB and Trump, is now somehow miraculously honest now? Suckers.
WP, I rarely post to CC but often check in the see what’s being said about Chicago housing.
CC’s certainly not a site I would visit for an informed discussion of any medical issue.
You discount first hand accounts of the current status of the virus. I posted previously that my state, Arkansas, is experiencing a rapid spread of the delta variant. State hospitals are at capacity and our local academic medical center and public health officials are expecting further worsening. Baxter County in NE AR has an overwhelming outbreak, having contracted the virus from MO.across the state border. All the surrounding states are experiencing the same. The stats you cite may be accurate but don’t refute what other people are living every day.
Helmethofer,
I’m not convinced that you pass the Turing test.
“So our US Gvt. which was despised and not trusted when it was run by GWB and Trump, is now somehow miraculously honest now? Suckers.”
Most of the deaths in that 625K number were reported under Trump. So what exactly do you believe? That Trump and the CDC and every hospital in every country of the world is part of a some giant conspiracy? For what purpose?
And the flu has not disappeared but masks, social distancing, and lockdowns have greatly cut down on those infections. I haven’t had so much as a cold in 18 months. That has never happened in my life.
You do know that life expectancy in the US dropped by almost 2 years last year? That was faked too? The magnitude of conspiracy required to pull off what you believe is so astronomically improbably that you would have to be a total fool to believe it.
” Everyone knows now that the cold & flu have miraculously disappeared”
—————————-
No miracle about it, Helmet. Covid-19 is more infectious than the flu, and is transmitted the same way. Anything that cuts down on the transmission rate of the more-infectious disease will, by necessity, cut down on the transmission of the less-infectious disease that transmits in the same method.
Time to use your head for something besides a tin-foil hat rack, Helmy.
Gary,
If you take a perfectly reasonable and understandable position that everything the government tells you is a lie, it’s easier to understand why these number might be manipulated.
Do I need to list for you all of the times the government has lied to us for political means?
Why would the coronavirus pandemic be any different?
Fauci sat there and lied to America two days ago: We did not fund gain of function research on coronavirus in Wuhan Lab.
Rand Paul: “but it says here that Wuhan used NIH money (through Ecohealth) to manipulate spike proteins on coronaviruses”
Fauci: “I strongly dispute that manipulating spike proteins on coronaviruses is ‘gain of function’ and you don’t know what you are talking about…and yes, we did fund that research by the way.”
Would you have thought 12 months ago that your own tax dollars, through the NIH, signed by Fauci himself, to go to Wuhan, would be the source of the coronavirus?
WMD’s, anthrax vaccine, russia hoax….and on and on and on…
The government has lost the trust of probably half the population now and the other half has authoritarian tendencies…
“Anything that cuts down on the transmission rate of the more-infectious disease will, by necessity, cut down on the transmission of the less-infectious disease that transmits in the same method.”
I know, it’s impossible to catch two or more STDs at the same time! Because one STD is always more transmissible than the other, right? Oh wait, that doesn’t make any sense.
“If you take a perfectly reasonable and understandable position that everything the government tells you is a lie, it’s easier to understand why these number might be manipulated.”
It’s reasonable to believe that the government lies about specific events or small data sets. But the coordination required to pull off a hoax of the magnitude imagined by people like Helmethofer is completely unreasonable and improbable. Every hospital in every country of the world? Bullshit. And to what end?
“Fauci sat there and lied to America two days ago: We did not fund gain of function research on coronavirus in Wuhan Lab.”
No he didn’t. https://www.newsweek.com/sen-rand-paul-dr-fauci-right-about-gain-function-research-funding-wuhan-1612371
“I know, it’s impossible to catch two or more STDs at the same time! Because one STD is always more transmissible than the other, right? Oh wait, that doesn’t make any sense.”
—————————–
What are you babbling about Helmet? We were talking about the effect of taking steps to cut down transmission.
https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2021/07-21-2021-lab-alert-Changes_CDC_RT-PCR_SARS-CoV-2_Testing_1.html
“CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses.”
welp don’t you all feel retarded now for listening to the mainstream clown media
“I’m totally OK with that PROVIDED that we can kick the unvaccinated out of an ICU bed if it’s needed by someone else.”
that is an absolutely disgusting take Gary
we do not live in a two tier society
just disgusting that otherwise intelligent people would even consider thinking this way… gross
Well, we do live in a two tier society. The vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Apparently some people think it’s OK for them to go unvaccinated and that they are then entitled to take medical resources away from others as a result of their decision.
Would it be ethical to implement such a policy? Of course not. But it’s an interesting thought experiment. Can someone make a decision without personal consequences? Passing some of the consequences on to others? That’s a problem.
“CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses.”
Isn’t that the government that HD says we need to assume is lying?
Anyway: translate that to plain English, since you’re the expert.
“we do not live in a two tier society”
Unless you mean there are more than two tier, that’s funny.
“that is an absolutely disgusting take Gary
we do not live in a two tier society
just disgusting that otherwise intelligent people would even consider thinking this way… gross”
————————–
Come now, Sonies, we all know that Gary Lucido, like you, is a sunshine patriot indulging in a thought experiment.
To forestall responses, Gary will remember when he whined about benefits (transit in that case, notwithstanding his advertising) being “forced” upon him and I asked about whether he was jake with me stepping over his unconscious carcass on the street and he said “No” — He said we could assume he wanted assistance.
Like him, you now want to have F-headed, unreasonable idiots (like Helmet trying to defend raw sex with a stranger as opposed to transmission prevention) refuse reasonable preventive care after tens of millions of doses in millions of arms (white and other, so race is not an issue) and impose external costs on society, at the expense of the lives of those who played by science’s rules.
We can’t prevent Gary — greedy pig that he is — from taking advantage of transit benefits. We can, however, prevent ignorant, greedy, pigs, from taking advantage of our medical system at the expense of innocent people.
Harsh? Two tier? Step over Gary L’s body and land on a vax denier.
A pox on both your houses, including your hypocracy.
Johnc
Now apply your screed and address it to minorities. Are they all Vax Deniers too? Or just middle aged boomer Tucker viewers:
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/
-Overall, across these 40 states, the percent of White people who have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose (48%) was roughly 1.3 times higher than the rate for Black people (36%) and 1.2 times higher than the rate for Hispanic people (41%) as of July 19, 2021.
-As of July 19, less than half of Black and Hispanic people have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose in the vast majority of states reporting data. The vaccination rate for Black people is less than 50% in 38 of 42 reporting states, including 14 states where less than a third of Black people have received one or more doses. Similarly, less than half of Hispanic people have received a COVID-19 vaccine dose in 34 of 40 reporting states, including 10 states where less than a third have received at least one dose. At least half of White people have received a COVID-19 vaccine dose in 17 of 42 states. The rate remains below 50% in the remaining 25 states but falls below a third in only one state, Idaho. At least half of Asian people have received one or more doses in more than half of reporting states (32 of 39).-
Ok Gary now do your little thought experiment and instead of vax/unvax subsutitute homeowner/homeless person
Just a horrible take. Absolutely disgusting.
I’m not following the parallel with homeowners and the homeless. I need you to connect the dots better. Unless you’re generalizing the problem of people taking risks and passing the costs on to society as a whole. Yeah, I have a problem with that. I have a problem with any government setup, including public transit Johnc, where costs could easily be entirely borne by the decision makers but instead are transferred to others in society.
“Well, we do live in a two tier society. The vaccinated and the unvaccinated. Apparently some people think it’s OK for them to go unvaccinated and that they are then entitled to take medical resources away from others as a result of their decision.
Would it be ethical to implement such a policy? Of course not. But it’s an interesting thought experiment. Can someone make a decision without personal consequences? Passing some of the consequences on to others? That’s a problem.”
Infectious diseases are a bit of a fly in the ointment for a libertarian mindset. Because refusing to get vaccinated can indeed have consequences not just for yourself but others generally with infectious disease.
However not quite the case with covid: it’s ripping through the mammalian germplasm at a rapid rate and mutating. So even if we somehow managed to get ever single human on this planet vaccinated against it before it could mutate there is the issue of other mammals it can infect (I’ve heard it can infect cats but not dogs). And if it can infect rats there’s that issue as well as they are ubiquitous in cities around the world.
So even if your neighbor is vax denier I’d caution into reading too much into their actions being responsible for where this pandemic is going because if a new variant isn’t created inside their bodies it could be happening in someone else halfway around the globe too and would find it’s way back here.
Latest data shows around 2.3% of covid-19 deaths in Illinois are among the fully vaccinated and that’s before the Delta variant has become the dominant strain.
So its coming back in the fall/winter, we’re all probably going to get it, but if you get your shots your chance of dying from organ failure from low oxygen while gasping for air on a ventilator is currently greatly reduced and will likely still be reduced significantly once delta takes over. You might have a bad few days and might even be hospitalized and still might even die, but your odds are much better with the jab.
From what I’ve read people that had contracted actual covid have what they think is lifelong immunity of at least some sort, likely due to it mutating within their body creating different strains and the body recognizing those, vs the vaccine that looks like it was precision designed against just one strain.
Me I haven’t needed to take any antibiotics for the past 15 years or so because I start a regimen including goldenseal the minute something is off in my throat or saliva viscosity or the moment there is phlegm. Goldenseal seems to work at least for me as I think it is banging the pots & pans for the immune system to wake up that there is an invader and to start doing it’s thing. Viruses do the most damage early on in infection when the immune system does not yet recognize them and it is believe Goldenseal induces an immune response that helps identify ie: bronchial infections sooner. For a scientifically sound version of this for CV it is the vaccines. Any amount of antibodies in your system will help your body recognize it faster and prevent out of control viral replication early on which are the cases that lead to hospitalization & death.
“If it’s only 60, that’ll be a great sign–dropping from 10x to 2x. MASSIVE slowdown.”
That’s just the thing most people do not understand geometric growth with these things. That Lollapalooza is continuing to be allowed to happen just flabberghasts me.
Cancel the festivals. Sorry kids you’ll just have to wait another year.
“You’d have to be a class A idiot to believe the 600,000 death figure. Completely untrustworthy.”
Exactly HH.
Because the number is really much, much higher.
“Or did you mean Ontario and LaSalle?”
I saw that it was a BP and I was thinking of Chicago and Wells, anon(tfo). And yes, there IS a BP gas station there.
“Who wants to be outside in Florida, Texas, and Southwest Missouri in July?”
Is everyone outside in Illinois? Last I checked the air conditioner was running nonstop, people were eating inside in restaurants just like in the southern states.
But arguing about who is doing “better” with Covid is meaningless.
It is coming for EVERY state. The delta doesn’t know state boundaries. It doesn’t care. It looks for hosts. There are Illinois counties that are 35% vaccinated, just like in Missouri. There are going to be outbreaks there too.
The worst county in Florida, with a 23% positivity rate and cases rising quickly, is just 14,000 people in the panhandle. It is just 23% vaccinated.
No mask mandate. No social distancing.
Big outbreak coming. Few hospital beds. The ambulances are already transporting patients to Tallahassee.
They don’t expect this outbreak to peak, nationwide, until mid-October.
“Yet Sabrina calls this a “4th surge” and runs around saying the hospitals are going to fail, postpone elective surgeries, and deaths are going to skyrocket……”
It is already happening all over Florida, WP.
Open your eyes.
73,000 cases in the last week. 42,000 the week before. Next week, 100,000?
From the local media:
“About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and nearly a tripling since June 14 when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.”
Peak hospitalizations last winter were 7200.
Yes, elective surgeries will be postponed again in Florida WP.
But I agree with your sentiment: get in reality.
“So even if your neighbor is vax denier I’d caution into reading too much into their actions being responsible for where this pandemic is going because if a new variant isn’t created inside their bodies it could be happening in someone else halfway around the globe too and would find it’s way back here.”
The Vax only mutates in the bodies of those who were vaccinated, but were unable to completely defeat it. Just like antibiotic resistance comes from only those who use antibiotics, vaccine resistant coronaviruses come only from have taken the vaccine.
Don’t blame me for your vaccine failure.
“The Vax only mutates in the bodies of those who were vaccinated, but were unable to completely defeat it. Just like antibiotic resistance comes from only those who use antibiotics, vaccine resistant coronaviruses come only from have taken the vaccine.”
It can mutate in any person it can infect. The problem with a two-dose vaccine is now becoming apparent as those who are only halfway through their regimen offer fertile ground for it to infect (at lower rates but enough people) and adapt. That population is probably more likely to produce new more effective variants than the unvaccinated I’d be willing to bet.
I was exposed to TB as a child which was discovered on changing school districts. It was made very clear to me that I had to take a six month drug regimen and absolutely had to follow it through because the cost of not completing the regimen would be far worse than never taking the meds in the first place.
Same thing with those with HIV: once you start on the meds you have to continue the regimen for the rest of your life as stopping them at any point allows the virus to mutate and will result in a worse outcome than never having started them.
So yeah the half-way vaxxed are large enough in number to roll out the red carpet to Delta to adapt in addition to the unvaxxed which are larger in number but provide many more potential hosts.
Then where were the variants 12 months ago before the vaccine?
“Then where were the variants 12 months ago before the vaccine?”
Delta originated in India a place with still negligible vaccine uptake. So yes it originated in an unvaxxed person. But how will it will adapt to work around current vaccines is the half vaxxed population which it is effective enough at infecting to spread.
“Then where were the variants 12 months ago before the vaccine?”
The virus is constantly mutating and has been from the time it arose, but only a few of these variants are cause for concern. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK554776/
Delta was first reported in Indian in December 2020, well before the vaccine became widely available.
It’s inevitable that there will be more mutations. People should get the damn vaccine already, so that we have less circulation of the virus and fewer chances for a mutation that can potentially impact the vaccine’s efficacy. I already know personally of two breakthrough cases among people who probably would have died except that the vaccine protected them from needing ventilators/hospitalization. Both fully recovered, but both ended up in the ER.
The selfishness of the American people can never be underestimated.
“You discount first hand accounts of the current status of the virus. I posted previously that my state, Arkansas, is experiencing a rapid spread of the delta variant.”
Meh as of July 21, Arkansas had <600 Covid Hospitalizations compared to 1400 in January and almost 1900 at this point last year…..
You are also discounting first hand that in January and this time last year no one was vaccinated. Yes, vaccination is low comparatively speaking but it was 0% last year….
"Baxter County in NE AR has an overwhelming outbreak,"
Has 37 Covid patients in the hospital as of last week of which 88% are unvaccinated. 37 out of 42,000 people doesn't sound "overwhelming".
"The stats you cite may be accurate but don’t refute what other people are living every day."
I'm not refuting. I'm saying the level of alarm some people are raising is a little ridiculous. Gottlieb on CNBC this morning believes Delta will peak within 3 weeks. He has been pretty accurate and non-political since the start of Covid. This timeline looks pretty accurate based on what happened last year as well.
All of this "noise" and "racket" outside of reinstating mask mandates in a few localities and counties no one is really going to do much compared to last year. We have vaccines and compared to last year and the beginning of this year the numbers aren't even close
“73,000 cases in the last week. 42,000 the week before. Next week, 100,000?”
+74% slowing to +37%? That would be a fantastically good curve.
125,000 cases next week is the break point bt accelerating and decelerating.
“Apparently some people think it’s OK for them to go unvaccinated and that they are then entitled to take medical resources away from others as a result of their decision.”
Some people also believe its ok to smoke cigarettes everyday for 20+ years, use medical resources, and ask for lung transplants.
Some people drink every day for 20+ years, use medical resources, and ask for a new liver.
Some people smoke crack, meth, shoot up heroin everyday, use medical resources, and ask for new organs
I could keep going but you get my point.
“They don’t expect this outbreak to peak, nationwide, until mid-October.”
Define “they” as again Gottlieb believes within 3 weeks.
“It is already happening all over Florida, WP.
Open your eyes.
73,000 cases in the last week. 42,000 the week before. Next week, 100,000?
From the local media:”
They don’t have 100,000 cases in Florida Sabrina….
“Peak hospitalizations last winter were 7200.”
It was over 8,000 in January…. currently just got above 4,000. Florida had nearly 11,000 this time last year but ok Sabrina. Hospitalizations peaked in Florida at the end of July last year. Why would not that not occur again?
https://ycharts.com/indicators/florida_coronavirus_cases_currently_hospitalized
“The selfishness of the American people can never be underestimated.”
Yet are vaccination rate is on par or better with every major country in the world except Israel, UK, Canada, and Singapore.
If America is “selfish” what do you call the rest of the G-20….
For as much love as people gave Japan, Australia, and New Zealand during the initial outbreaks we are doing circles around them on vaccination rates. I remember when lefties kept saying to do what their Governments are doing. Talk about failure.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1194939/rate-covid-vaccination-by-county-worldwide/
“Some people also believe its ok to smoke cigarettes everyday for 20+ years, use medical resources, and ask for lung transplants.
Some people drink every day for 20+ years, use medical resources, and ask for a new liver.
Some people smoke crack, meth, shoot up heroin everyday, use medical resources, and ask for new organs”
And I have a severe problem with all those behaviors and attitudes.
“Is everyone outside in Illinois? Last I checked the air conditioner was running nonstop, people were eating inside in restaurants just like in the southern states.”
Most people are. Humidity is in the 40’s to low 50’s in Chicago compared to the 80’s in Jacksonville with dew points close behind in the high 70’s. That sounds awful.
You can walk around fine out in Vegas when it’s 100 not so much in Florida and Texas. They call it a “swamp” for a reason.
“For as much love as people gave Japan, Australia, and New Zealand during the initial outbreaks we are doing circles around them on vaccination rates. I remember when lefties kept saying to do what their Governments are doing. Talk about failure”
NZ has had 26 Covid deaths – total, for the entire pandemic. It’s had 95 reported new cases over the past two weeks.
Florida has had 38,670 Covid deaths (at least that’s what they’re willing to count and report). It’s had nearly 150,000 reported new cases over the past two weeks.
“NZ has had 26 Covid deaths – total, for the entire pandemic. It’s had 95 reported new cases over the past two weeks”
And they literally shutdown the entire country when there’s 3 covid cases. Seems a little ridiculous when there’s a vaccine and we are 1 1/2 years in. It also denies “the science” that Covid will be endemic for the rest of our lives….
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/new-zealands-pm-adern-to-chair-emergency-apec-virtual-meet-to-discuss-covid-19-recession.html
New Zealand purposely destroyed its economy and is in its worst recession since WWII. It may take decades to recover. Between the lockdown nonsense, and the worst’s largest housing bubble, NZ deserves everything it gets.
Jacinda is nothing more than an incompetent authoritarian goofball.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/06/new-zealand-tops-bloomberg-real-estate-risk-rankings-as-oecd-house-prices-reach-unprecedented-levels.html
New Zealand’s inflated real estate prices have seen us named the “frothiest” housing market in the world in a new report by Bloomberg Economics.
“And they literally shutdown the entire country when there’s 3 covid cases. Seems a little ridiculous when there’s a vaccine and we are 1 1/2 years in. It also denies “the science” that Covid will be endemic for the rest of our lives….”
Wow- we knew last year when they shut down and prevented the death of thousands of people that it would be “endemic for the rest of our lives?”
Amazing WP. Why didn’t someone tell Trump? He told us it would be “gone” by Easter.
I don’t know about New Zealand, but Australia’s problem now, with the Delta variant, is that their method from last year can’t work this year. The Delta can’t be kept out. And they didn’t bother to buy the vaccines. Yikes. So they are in a hard place.
But just buying the vaccine is no guarantee either, as we’ve seen in the United States. Every adult can get the vaccine. For free. Yet, the outbreak in Florida continues to worsen. If cases keep rising at this rate, Florida will be in a hospital emergency in some parts of the state this week.
It didn’t have to be this way. In any of the rich countries that could afford the vaccine.
Ugh.
“You can walk around fine out in Vegas when it’s 100 not so much in Florida and Texas. They call it a “swamp” for a reason.”
If that’s the case WP, then why is Clark County in Nevada having a huge covid outbreak if everyone is “outside”?
Because what you are saying is completely WRONG.
“If America is “selfish” what do you call the rest of the G-20….”
The rest of the G-20 didn’t have access to the vaccine! In Britain, they had a strict protocol and you had to wait 12 weeks in between the 2 shot regiment. It has taken them MUCH longer to roll out as a result.
In the US, everyone over 18 could get the shots months ago. With no wait.
Similarly, Japan, Australia and New Zealand each have their own particular issues. Australia hasn’t bought the vaccine, as their success early on last year gave them complacency. They didn’t hear the ambulances. They didn’t have 600,000 dead. In Japan, there is a history of the government forcing “bad” vaccines on the population so the population is reluctant to trust the government and take them.
In America, our outbreaks are due to misinformation and conspiracy.
So sad.
“If that’s the case WP, then why is Clark County in Nevada having a huge covid outbreak if everyone is “outside”?”
Here’s your “huge” Covid outbreak in Clark County….
Just got to a 1,000 hospitalizations (January they were at 2,000)
7 day rolling case average – 764 (January was over 2,000).
Further, their first wave last year peaked at the end of July/beginning of August.
Their first wave started at the beginning of June 2020 peaking in two months. Guess when this third wave started…. looks like Mid-June.
It will peak in a couple of weeks.
“It was over 8,000 in January…. currently just got above 4,000. Florida had nearly 11,000 this time last year but ok Sabrina. Hospitalizations peaked in Florida at the end of July last year. Why would not that not occur again?”
Wrong. 5300 hospitalized as of Friday WP. Hospitalizations peaked in January at 7200. It’s going in the wrong way.
Open your eyes. You are very, very wrong. Huge outbreak, again, in Florida.
You cannot gaslight the data, but I know you’re going to try.
Sigh.
Here’s an update from today. Central Florida hospitals sounding the alarm. Some elective procedures are going to be postponed. Need to make sure there is room at the hospitals.
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2021/07/26/watch-live-at-10-am-orange-county-leaders-give-update-on-covid-19-response/
“About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and a number that has nearly tripled since June 14, when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.”
“Define “they” as again Gottlieb believes within 3 weeks.”
Virus experts. I haven’t seen what Gottlieb is saying.
In the “early” states, it could be over within 3 weeks. Missouri has had a big outbreak for about 3 to 4 weeks now. It usually peaks at 6 to 8 weeks, right?
Other states are just in the beginning. And then school will start in about 2 to 3 weeks (or earlier in some states). And that will be increase the spread.
That’s why they’re saying mid-October for this nationwide outbreak to peak.
“125,000 cases next week is the break point bt accelerating and decelerating.”
I wasn’t doing the math, but thanks for doing it anon(tfo).
Orlando’s Orange County had a press conference this morning. They are now seeing 1,000 cases a day. Just in that one county.
When will the amusement parks start restricting capacity? Or do they just keep operating as if nothing is happening?
I have no idea the answer, by the way. Clearly, the governor said he will not put on any restrictions. And counties have their hands tied as well. But the businesses can do whatever they want.
seasonality is a thing with flus and coronaviruses, right now in lower latitude climates (0-29degrees N) this is peak flu/cv season
https://i.imgur.com/5N6Aeal.png
as October/Nov comes, cases will start to skyrocket in more northern climates while peaking in january/feb
unless the the end of use of PCR tests used to detect any flu/cv’s are stopped like the cdc says they are going to do by the end of December… then they will claim victory to ‘own’ the dumb southern redneck states… yeah…
“You are also discounting first hand that in January and this time last year no one was vaccinated. Yes, vaccination is low comparatively speaking but it was 0% last year….”
I am not discounting that. But in January, we literally didn’t gather with our family and friends for the holidays because of COVID. We were NOT flying. We weren’t going to the movie theater. We weren’t attending sporting events sitting side by side.
We were socially distancing. We were wearing masks. We had covid “bubbles.” We stayed home.
Arkansas is only 36% vaccinated. In some counties it’s just 20%.
Delta doesn’t care. That is thousands of hosts. It is finding them. The January virus was the old variant. Slower moving. Doesn’t spread easily.
Wake up. The Delta is NOT the original virus.
So sad. This could all have been avoided. Such needless pain and suffering.
“Australia hasn’t bought the vaccine, as their success early on last year gave them complacency.”
Then their Government is incompetent. As you say the virus knows no border, doesn’t go after red or blue it just infects…. Do they not have google? India is pretty dang close to Australia…. Plenty of Brits travel to and from same thing with the US….
“In Japan, there is a history of the government forcing “bad” vaccines on the population so the population is reluctant to trust the government and take them.”
Sounds similar as the US people don’t trust institutions much these days particularly their government.
“In America, our outbreaks are due to misinformation and conspiracy.”
Maybe that’s what they say on MSNBC. This isn’t the actual issue. Biden’s been in office for how many months and instead of offering solutions and leading he is blaming everyone else.
His only solution so far is comically state that Facebook is literally killing people which again is not a solution.
“Then their Government is incompetent. As you say the virus knows no border, doesn’t go after red or blue it just infects…. Do they not have google? India is pretty dang close to Australia…. Plenty of Brits travel to and from same thing with the US….”
Yes. This is apparently correct. They got complacent. Didn’t think they needed to quickly vaccinate because of their success. Thought they could keep it out like they did originally.
So sad.
“Maybe that’s what they say on MSNBC. This isn’t the actual issue. Biden’s been in office for how many months and instead of offering solutions and leading he is blaming everyone else.”
Biden has made the vaccine available to every American. For free. At their barbershop. Church. Synagogue. School. Local drug store.
So sad that conspiracy theories spread by anti-vaxxers, Fox and others have led to this. And now it’s too late. DeSantis can talk up the vaccine all he wants. The outbreak is already here.
Interestingly, despite all the press coverage, few are rushing out to get the vaccine who haven’t been vaccinated yet. Let’s hope that changes. It must change or we are all screwed to have these outbreaks over and over and the possibility of a much worse mutation.
So sad.
“seasonality is a thing with flus and coronaviruses, right now in lower latitude climates (0-29degrees N) this is peak flu/cv season”
I agree about seasonality sonies. We saw the outbreaks in Florida and Texas last year.
But that doesn’t explain Missouri. It’s not a “lower latitude” climate.
“Wake up. The Delta is NOT the original virus.”
Correct. For half the country there is no pandemic and virtually zero risk of hospitalization. That was the point in getting vaccinated.
Less than one tenth of one percent even experience breakthrough symptomatic cases. This thing is over but vaccinated Blue Checkmarks on Twitter can’t let go.
Hospitalizations are one fifth of where we were in January…. yet you call it a surge….
“Virus-related hospitalizations have also increased, with more than 27,000 patients hospitalized around the country, though that number is still significantly lower than in January, when over 125,000 patients were receiving care at one time.”
https://abcnews.go.com/US/symptomatic-breakthrough-covid-19-infections-rare-cdc-data/story?id=79048589
“But that doesn’t explain Missouri. It’s not a “lower latitude” climate.”
We are talking about southwest Missouri which borders Arkansas and Oklahoma….. pretty far south.
“Here’s your “huge” Covid outbreak in Clark County….”
Yes, as you know it takes time to get to hospitalizations. July 4th was a spreader event which is why the numbers have been rising. The CDC sent a team of help from the federal government to help them with this outbreak.
But we know how it spreads. Duh. 300,000 people were in the casinos, unmasked, over 4th of July weekend. Of course, they all don’t live in Clark County so most of those people simply got on planes and went home.
But the casinos are starting to add restrictions. I think some are bringing back masks for workers. Have to protect your people.
And some Disney executives look pretty smart here:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/24/disney-wont-attend-cinemacon-in-person-as-delta-variant-rages-in-las-vegas.html
On Clark County:
Fewer people have been wearing masks, a change in behavior that also increases the spread of disease, according to Swann. Recent surveys by Facebook indicate that about 27 percent of Nevadans are wearing masks all or most of the time.
This figure likely will increase. As of Thursday, employees at businesses in Clark County were required to wear masks, regardless of whether they are vaccinated, under a measure approved Tuesday by the Clark County Commission. The Southern Nevada Health District has recommended that everyone wear masks in crowded indoor settings.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/nevada/nevada-vaccination-rate-low-but-other-factors-help-fuel-covid-surge-2406367/
“Biden has made the vaccine available to every American.”
It’s not available for people under 12. So it’s not available to every American. Further, you have to have an effective distribution and advertising campaign to ensure people get the vaccine.
Biden has done nothing on this front. I don’t think many people in Arkansas or Southwest Missouri are watching Maddow or CNN for good reason too. The NY Times is pretty irrelevant to them as well….
I though “C’mon man Uncle Joe” was this “fighter” from Scranton who looks out for the “little guy” at the manufacturing plant? So much for that….
“We are talking about southwest Missouri which borders Arkansas and Oklahoma….. pretty far south.”
St Louis isn’t “south” and the outbreak is now there.
So, no, Missouri isn’t a lower latitude state.
“Correct. For half the country there is no pandemic and virtually zero risk of hospitalization. That was the point in getting vaccinated.”
It’s not zero risk. It’s low risk. Even in Florida it’s anywhere from 2 to 5% in the hospital are vaccinated. But they shouldn’t be on ventilators and shouldn’t die. That’s the point of the vaccine. Prevent death.
The delta doesn’t care. Some parts of Florida are 70% vaccinated. Doesn’t mean the hospitals nearby aren’t going to get overwhelmed.
We didn’t stop community spread. We never reached herd immunity.
Too many unvaccinated hosts.
In Chicago, some neighborhoods are only 30% vaccinated. We will not escape an outbreak. Lightfoot will put on mask mandates again as the numbers rise here.
“Fewer people have been wearing masks, a change in behavior that also increases the spread of disease, according to Swann.”
Why would anyone wear a mask if their vaccinated? Are you implying masks offer better protections than say a vaccine?
“Recent surveys by Facebook indicate that about 27 percent of Nevadans are wearing masks all or most of the time.”
And this group of Nevadans are probably all vaccinated. So again, what the heck is this going to do? Not really a solution….
“As of Thursday, employees at businesses in Clark County were required to wear masks, regardless of whether they are vaccinated, under a measure approved Tuesday by the Clark County Commission”
So masks are better than vaccines? Wow how stupid are these people.
“The Southern Nevada Health District has recommended that everyone wear masks in crowded indoor settings.”
Why not recommend everyone get vaccinated?
Has this Health District partnered with the Las Vegas Strip Operators setting up vaccination sites on-site?
“This thing is over but vaccinated Blue Checkmarks on Twitter can’t let go.”
I wish it were so WP. I wish 313 people didn’t die last week in Florida of Covid.
“Why would anyone wear a mask if their vaccinated? Are you implying masks offer better protections than say a vaccine?”
The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting Covid WP. It stops you from having a severe reaction and/or dying.
Heck, there’s a Spanish golfer who just tested positive for COVID at the Olympics who just had COVID in June AND he’s been vaccinated.
There are now people who have had COVID several times in the last few months, even after vaccination. Should have mild symptoms. But they can still be spreaders of it.
You wear a mask to protect yourself from getting it and/or from giving it to others who are more at risk.
It’s not all about you, WP. But in America it apparently is.
Freedom!
“St Louis isn’t “south” and the outbreak is now there.”
Good lord. St. Louis 7 day case average is 46. Yes 46….. that’s not an outbreak Sabrina…
They have a hold your hat 270 people hospitalized. That’s it. Their hospital metrics are still in the “green zone” per their website.
They don’t have an outbreak Sabrina. This is political theater.
https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/covid-19/data/index.cfm
“The vaccine doesn’t stop you from getting Covid WP. It stops you from having a severe reaction and/or dying.”
i.e. the point of the vaccine. What are you even arguing at this point? Everyone gets sick of various viruses throughout their lifetime. The goal is to not catch anything serious that lands you in the hospital or die.
Again, two weeks to flatten the curve one and a half years later well even if you get the vaccine you might catch breakthrough Covid case and be asymptomatic meaning you won’t even know you have Covid.
“Heck, there’s a Spanish golfer who just tested positive for COVID at the Olympics who just had COVID in June AND he’s been vaccinated.”
Is he in the hospital? What are his symptoms? Is he asymptomatic?
“There are now people who have had COVID several times in the last few months, even after vaccination. Should have mild symptoms. But they can still be spreaders of it.”
No one has proved vaccinated people that catch Covid can spread Covid. Even if they could who cares? CDC less than 0.01% of people who get Covid after vaccination get symptomatic Covid.
“You wear a mask to protect yourself from getting it and/or from giving it to others who are more at risk.”
I got a vaccine to protect myself and others Sabrina. It’s dumb to wear a mask after vaccination unless you don’t believe in vaccines.
“It’s not all about you, WP. But in America it apparently is.”
Yes. Getting a Covid Vaccine was about myself and returning to normal. I did my part for 15 months. Get over it.
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/
Its not conspiracy theories sabrina, its minorities who in the past have been the subject of government injection experiments (Tuskegee Experiment for example) not wanting to get an experimental injection for something with such an extremely low death rate.
“About 5,300 Floridians are now hospitalized with COVID, a 65% jump since last week and a number that has nearly tripled since June 14, when 1,845 were hospitalized, the Florida Hospital Association said. Officials have said more than 95% of those hospitalized were not vaccinated.”
95% unvaccinated….. Again, there choice. Not my issue.
“On Friday, (there) was 1,031 cases. On Friday, (of) those (1,031) cases, no one was vaccinated.”
Again, Covid is done if you are vaccinated. Unless you are offering a solution on how to get these individuals to get vaccinated your alarmism is strictly virtue signaling.
You sound very “anti-science” with how much alarm you are raising.
Hospitalizations are one fifth of where we were in January
The thing about prevention is you have to act before things get really bad.
Regarding the unvaxxed – sure, there are a lot of people who won’t get vaxxed b/c “libs are taking muh freedom/ Bill Gates is trying to inject me with a tracking device / Big pharma is lying to me about everything / COVID is a hoax / Jesus will save me” and those people should be shunned.
However, many desk jockeys tend to underestimate the number of people who do not have paid sick time at their job. These people may not be able to afford to take a day off for the “mild to moderate” reactions to the jab. Is foregoing the vax the smartest long term decision? Well, no, because they also can’t afford to take several days to several weeks off if they get COVID. But it’s understandable why they might be willing to risk it.
More carrots for the 2nd group ($200 to get vaccinated?) and more sticks for the 1st group (proof of vax required for travel and for entry to theaters, stadiums, restaurants, bars)
“Some neighborhoods of Chicago are only 30% vaccinated. Some are 75%. It’s not enough to stop the spread of the virus, that’s for sure. And that leaves too many hosts for delta to latch onto (which it will.)”
Must be Tucker and Hannity’s fault snark….
What’s Lori, Preckwinkle, and JB doing about this? A whole lot of nothing but political talking points.
Lori in her NY Times interview pointing to downstate counties with low vaccination rates as a reason to re-implement restrictions is absolutely ridiculous and is not an actual solution.
What a joke. I thought JB was Governor….
“The southern part of our state is starting to really catch fire with new COVID infections. I’m worried about a surge there. So I’m concerned. We’re sounding the alarm. And we’re going to be looking closely at how the data progresses.”
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/government/will-chicago-reinstate-its-mask-mandate
“However, many desk jockeys tend to underestimate the number of people who do not have paid sick time at their job. These people may not be able to afford to take a day off for the “mild to moderate” reactions to the jab. Is foregoing the vax the smartest long term decision? Well, no, because they also can’t afford to take several days to several weeks off if they get COVID. But it’s understandable why they might be willing to risk it.
More carrots for the 2nd group ($200 to get vaccinated?) and more sticks for the 1st group (proof of vax required for travel and for entry to theaters, stadiums, restaurants, bars)”
Comment of the day right here. Kudos Madeline. I don’t get why JB, Preckwinkle, Lori, etc. aren’t calling up businesses that have a high percentage of hourly or low/middle wage jobs across the city/county/state and doing vaccinations on site at the end of the shift and the State paying the next two days of wages on behalf of the employer to this individual to stay home and recover.
For whatever reason the Feds will pay these enhanced UI benefits for months and months but the State/Feds won’t cover two days of sick leave for private sector workers to get the shot.
Makes no sense.
Here’s Reuters today on the UK saying the Delta Variant already peaked their. Cases at their lowest since July 4th. The upswing in the UK started at the end of May.
The southern states are probably on the same trajectory – same as last year. Which again means a few more weeks until peak.
By Labor Day we will be talking about the next variant named after the Greek Alphabet since Delta will be largely done.
We have now had the UK, Brazil, South Africa, India (Delta), the next one is Peru (Lambda). Every variant has faded within a month or two and have largely been nothing burgers.
They keep losing credibility with every letter of the Greek Alphabet they flash across the screen.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/new-uk-coronavirus-cases-fall-lowest-since-july-4-2021-07-26/?taid=60feeec8afcfee0001435a48&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter
Today, 7/26, the Chancellor of University of Arkansas for medical sciences announced the hospital had surpassed its January record number of Covid-19 patients.
Let’s get back to discussing real estate and, perhaps, serve some meaningful purpose.
get off of twitter look at all these bots spreading fear and nonsense
https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atwitter.com+i+just+left+the+ER+crushed+by+covid&ei=_hL_YOv5M8Ln-gSd6rGoCQ&oq=site%3Atwitter.com+i+just+left+the+ER+crushed+by+covid&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EANKBAhBGAFQ_CFY3CZg4C9oAXAAeACAAXeIAecDkgEDNC4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpesABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjr8OT8wYHyAhXCs54KHR11DJUQ4dUDCA4&uact=5
“Its not conspiracy theories sabrina, its minorities who in the past have been the subject of government injection experiments (Tuskegee Experiment for example) not wanting to get an experimental injection for something with such an extremely low death rate.”
That and many of them already had coronavirus, and because people can think for themselves, individuals within these demographics have made their OWN decisions that their natural immunity, which is better than any shot, provides them with sufficient protection against reinfection.
“It’s dumb to wear a mask after vaccination unless you don’t believe in vaccines.”
I am vaccinated and I believe in vaccines and I’ve started to wear a mask again because:
1) I want to promote a mask wearing culture because I’m worried about all the unvaccinated running around unmasked.
2) Nobody knows if I’m vaccinated or just inconsiderate
3) I might get infected and infect others. Yeah, it’s not proven to be possible but I think it’s likely. If you have the virus it’s pouring out of your orifices.
4) I want the extra protection afforded by my KN95 mask. It’s not that I don’t trust the vaccine or that I think masks are better than vaccines (how the hell did you come to that conclusion?). But 20% of the cases in LA are now among the vaccinated. And data from England (I don’t know what vaccine they are using) shows 3% of unvaccinated cases require hospitalization. https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/955342#vp_2
“That and many of them already had coronavirus, and because people can think for themselves, individuals within these demographics have made their OWN decisions that their natural immunity, which is better than any shot, provides them with sufficient protection against reinfection.”
There are more white people unvaccinated than black. So this argument isn’t really holding water.
Their OWN decision? You mean like drinking and driving? Wearing seatbelts? Wearing a helmet while on a motorcycle? Not smoking on a plane?
There are things that are required of you in society that you don’t get to “decide.”
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
More carrots for the 2nd group ($200 to get vaccinated?) and more sticks for the 1st group (proof of vax required for travel and for entry to theaters, stadiums, restaurants, bars)”
No, there will not be any more carrots. That is over. It’s no longer working.
It will simply be required. You will not be able to go to your job without having it.
Rush announced today they will require it. That’s hundreds (thousands?) of employees. Other big medical groups all saying you have to have it. State of California said it will require it among its 246,000 employees statewide (or you have to get tested every week. They do give an out.)
The Federal VA just said they will mandate it for all employees.
Only a matter of time before others jump on board now. Many colleges/universities now require it etc.
“What’s Lori, Preckwinkle, and JB doing about this? A whole lot of nothing but political talking points.”
They are going door to door in Englewood, WP. If you lived in Chicago, you would know instead of just linking to media articles.
They have the barbershops and churches participating.
But you can only do so much to counter fear and misinformation.
So sad.
“95% unvaccinated….. Again, there choice. Not my issue.”
When you have a heart attack or stroke and they can’t take you because the ER is full, I guess you’ll say, “not my issue.”
Come on. Quit being stupid WP.
These outbreaks are going to impact the economy. Why do we want to do that again? We have the vaccine. Trump’s Warp Speed worked! Too bad he never closed the deal with the MAGAs. So sad and tragic.
“I got a vaccine to protect myself and others Sabrina. It’s dumb to wear a mask after vaccination unless you don’t believe in vaccines.”
No, it’s not. Ask any doctor or dentist.
I guess they’re dumb.
“Good lord. St. Louis 7 day case average is 46. Yes 46….. that’s not an outbreak Sabrina…”
WP, why do I have to explain a pandemic to someone who has lived through it for 18 months? We all know how it works as those in Springfield drive up I-44 to St Louis, right? The same thing that WILL happen in Chicago in the next few weeks?
We know how the virus spreads, right?
St Louis has already been warned it’s coming by the medical professionals. Not enough are vaccinated there. They have put on a mask requirement in St Louis city, I believe.
I’m done talking to stupid COVID deniers.
The virus is now running unchecked through the country. There will be bad outbreaks where people aren’t vaccinated. In some areas hospitals will be overrun. In others they won’t be.
Have to let it work its way through the economy. Thousands more will die.
If a jet liner was crashing every day in Florida, I do think people would be doing something to prevent it. But sadly, they’re not.
It didn’t have to be this way. The vaccine is available and free.
“Let’s get back to discussing real estate and, perhaps, serve some meaningful purpose.”
Good idea CW.
Just had another closing today of a condo over $4 million.
Downtown continues to recover this summer.
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/9-W-Walton-St-60610/unit-903/home/101819225
“It’s not that I don’t trust the vaccine or that I think masks are better than vaccines (how the hell did you come to that conclusion?).”
It’s not my conclusion. Sabrina keeps touting masks and pointing to recent mask mandates (St Louis, Clark County, among others). She cited Clark County’s health director advising that everyone regardless of vaccination status should wear masks indoors around groups of people.
This isn’t a solution. (i) the people that will wear masks now are the people that are already vaccinated, (ii) the people that are unvaccinated probably aren’t going to wear masks as some/most didn’t wear them before, (iii) people on the fence on getting vaccinated will be less likely to get vaccinated as the rules are the same for the vaccinated and unvaccinated, (iv) You are gifting propaganda for the anti-vax.
“1) I want to promote a mask wearing culture because I’m worried about all the unvaccinated running around unmasked.”
(i) the unvaccinated aren’t going to start wearing masks, (ii) vaccinated individuals have a 0.01% chance of symptomatic breakthrough covid per CDC, (iii) the onus should be on Government not vaccinated individuals to get unvaccinated people to comply with rules and hopefully get vaccinated
“2) Nobody knows if I’m vaccinated or just inconsiderate”
Wear an I’m vaccinated pin or sticker. Its the end of July not the end of March anymore.
“3) I might get infected and infect others. Yeah, it’s not proven to be possible but I think it’s likely. If you have the virus it’s pouring out of your orifices.”
I would agree with you that it’s likely as well BUT again if you infect other people if they are vaccinated 0.01% get symptomatic infections. If they aren’t vaccinated they would have gotten it anyway from someone else
“4) I want the extra protection afforded by my KN95 mask.”
I appreciate that you are actually citing a mask that actually works. These have been widely available most of this year unlike last year. It’s ridiculous that the G hasn’t sent a few to every household in the Country. They continue to sit around and make racket, point fingers without trying to solve any of the problems.
Most of these cloth masks do very little if anything. There are some like the Gators that are actually worse than not wearing anything. Crickets from Biden, Fauci, JB, & Co.
“But 20% of the cases in LA are now among the vaccinated.”
From the LA Times: “The 20% figure may sound unsettling, especially considering that just last week L.A. County health officials were touting the fact that more than 99% of all COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths were among the unvaccinated”
So these “breakthrough cases” are asymptomatic and mild infection that don’t lead to hospital or death. The whole point of the vaccine in the first place.
Further, from ABC LA: “in fact, during the month of June, 20% of all newly reported COVID infections in the county occurred among people who had been fully vaccinated. That was up from 11% in May and 5% in April. But Public Health Director Barbara Ferrer said the increase is normal given the continued rise in the number of people who are getting fully vaccinated.”
“Very few of them ended up hospitalized, and even smaller numbers ended up passing away,” Ferrer said. “So yes, if you are fully vaccinated you have a lot of protection, which is what the vaccines have always been best at — protecting people from serious illness and death. And these vaccines, even with the Delta variant, are holding up really well.'”
“She noted that when the vaccination program began, the primary benefit cited was their ability to prevent people from ending up hospitalized or dying from the virus.”
Oh and the kicker: “According to the county, among roughly 4.85 million fully vaccinated residents from Jan. 19 through Tuesday, 6,520 tested positive for the virus, for a rate of 0.13%. That’s up from a rate of 0.09% last week.”
“Of the fully vaccinated people in that period who tested positive, only 287 were hospitalized, for a rate of 0.0059% of the vaccinated population, up from 0.0045% last week. There were 30 vaccinated people who died, a rate of 0.0006%.”
The 20% headline number is all noise, click bait, and fear mongering.
Let’s be sensible and reasonable here… Covid is done if you are vaccinated.
“And data from England (I don’t know what vaccine they are using) shows 3% of unvaccinated cases require hospitalization.”
They are using Astra Zenneca which has been a disaster.
https://abc7.com/breakthrough-cases-la-county-covid-update-los-angeles-coronavirus-rates/10904402/
“Rush announced today they will require it. That’s hundreds (thousands?) of employees. Other big medical groups all saying you have to have it. State of California said it will require it among its 246,000 employees statewide (or you have to get tested every week. They do give an out.)”
You act as if none of these employees have the vaccine already. This ain’t moving the needle much. The majority have the vaccine already.
“It will simply be required. You will not be able to go to your job without having it”
Again, you are in denial of who hasn’t gotten the vaccine. It’s lower wage earners i.e. service economy. You think McDonald restaurants and other fast food, warehouse, truck drivers, manufacturing employees, etc. are going to mandate a vaccine when they keep complaining about a labor shortage?
Let me know how that one goes.
Maybe McDonalds or Amazon requires their corporate white collar workforce to get vaccinated but it won’t be for the people in the restaurants, warehouses, delivery drivers, etc.
“They are going door to door in Englewood, WP. If you lived in Chicago, you would know instead of just linking to media articles.”
I do live in Chicago. Feel free to post the media articles. I’m sure their strategy will be just as effective as contact tracing….
Also, see labor shortage. How many people do they actually have doing this? 5?
I said they should be calling employers as well. I guess they aren’t going “business to business” then
“But you can only do so much to counter fear and misinformation.”
You think people in Englewood are scared of a vaccine? Ok….
“They have the barbershops and churches participating.”
This was like two months ago…
“When you have a heart attack or stroke and they can’t take you because the ER is full, I guess you’ll say, “not my issue.”
Talk about misinformation. First it was they are stopping elective surgeries. Now it’s if you have a heart attack or stroke the ER will be full.
Illinois hospitals have 10% of the Covid patients today then they did in November.
I didn’t see articles of heart attack and stroke patients getting turned away then…..
“These outbreaks are going to impact the economy. Why do we want to do that again? We have the vaccine.”
So you are betting against America now? I thought it was red hot and we were getting double digit growth according to you.
“Too bad he never closed the deal with the MAGAs. So sad and tragic.”
Didn’t realize the south and west sides was MAGA country…
“What’s Lori, Preckwinkle, and JB doing about this? A whole lot of nothing but political talking points.”
They are doing absolutely nothing this week so as to allow Lollapalooza to happen this upcoming weekend bringing people and their germs from all across the country. They are absolutely mum this week.
Then watch like clockwork as we enter emergency mode next Monday, likely even before the affects of Lolla are even seen, with mask mandates and more restrictions.
They will also act like there was no problem whatsoever until August 2nd at which point we will be in an emergency. An emergency absolutely noone could have ever predicted even up until the day before, August 1st.
“Let’s be sensible and reasonable here… Covid is done if you are vaccinated.”
This is disingenuous & from a selfish perspective. Yes you are probably going to live beyond a reasonable doubt if you are vaccinated. However you can still contract the virus and spread it to the unvaccinated, some of which cannot take the vaccine for underlying medical issues. And hundreds of thousands more people here are likely going to die from it.
And if you are vaccinated you can still catch it and have zero symptoms and still spread it. Further assisting the virus in it’s trajectory. In fact most of the break through cases I’m hearing about are precisely that: people that get tested still all the time for work-related reasons and pop positive on a PCR test. Without that testing they would never have had any idea they are covid-positive and can spread it. And most people are not regularly tested meaning they will have no idea they are spreading it.
“You act as if none of these employees have the vaccine already. This ain’t moving the needle much. The majority have the vaccine already.”
No. They don’t.
Shocking, right?
I know.
And not just in rural areas. City hospitals, clinics and dental offices too.
If everyone was vaccinated at the hospitals WP, they wouldn’t have any need to mandate it. Right?
In some Florida hospitals, 40% of staff aren’t vaccinated.
“vaccinated individuals have a 0.01% chance of symptomatic breakthrough covid per CDC”
First of all it’s actually 0.1%. Go check it again. But that’s still a small number. But it’s not the number I’m interested in because it’s a percentage of the entire vaccinated population. What I’m interested in is the percentage of the infected vaccinated population because that population is really tiny now but will increase over time as Delta spreads. We are in the first inning of this variant.
No asymptomatic spread. CDC
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/4/20-4576_article
Suggest quarantine as a precaution for pre-symptomatic spread.
“ In this cluster of COVID-19 cases, little to no transmission occurred from asymptomatic case-patients. Presymptomatic transmission was more frequent than symptomatic transmission. The serial interval was short; very short intervals occurred.
The fact that we did not detect any laboratory-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 transmission from asymptomatic case-patients is in line with multiple studies (9–11).”
Your mask is your religion and I don’t believe in your gods.
“If everyone was vaccinated at the hospitals WP, they wouldn’t have any need to mandate it. Right?”
I never said everyone was. You implied that no one had been with your comment. Per ABC Chicago Rush has 12,000 employees and over 80% are already vaccinated.
Again, when’s JB going to call up McDonalds?
When’s Lori going to say no more Amazon warehouse permit approvals?
Are any of the politicians putting pressure on the Labor Unions? Haven’t heard from SEIU, CTU, etc.
Why hasn’t Lori, Toni, and JB mandated vaccinations for city, county, state workers?
That would actually move the needle bigly.
https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-covid-vaccine-mandate-rush-university-medical-center/10911113/
“Why hasn’t Lori, Toni, and JB mandated vaccinations for city, county, state workers?”
Because they are covered by collective bargaining agreements.
Our political leaders in the state of Illinois do not tell the public sector union workers what to do here, here in Illinois the public sector unions tell our political leaders what to do.
“No asymptomatic spread. CDC”
One sample of 144 contact trees. With all of 7 asymptomatic patients.
And there were 2 positives out of the contacts of the 7 asymptomatic patients–it was just not a confirmed vector.
“They are going door to door in Englewood, WP. If you lived in Chicago, you would know instead of just linking to media articles.”
Here’s how pathetic the door-to-door vaccination campaign is going per Crains:
“More than 5,800 Chicagoans have been vaccinated at home since the program launched in March to serve homebound seniors and people with disabilities.”
Assuming a mid-march start date that’s 43 vaccinations per day. Absolutely pathetic. Talk about failure.
Further, in the City of Chicago:
“Since January, 97 percent of hospitalizations and deaths have been among people are who not fully vaccinated, Arwady said. Of those who were vaccinated and died, all had underlying medical conditions and the median age was 79, she said.”
The pandemic is and has been over for the vaccinated….
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/health-care/chicagos-top-doc-sees-city-covid-risk-rate-rising
“The pandemic is and has been over for the vaccinated….”
Oh, no it’s not, did you think the government was going to let you get away so easily? Every vaccinated person is now a potential Typhoid Mary!!! Even vaccinated, you are contaminated and dangerous to others, including other vaccinated!
“Walensky said new data shows the variant behaves “uniquely differently from past strains of the virus,” indicating that some vaccinated people infected with the delta variant “may be contagious and spread the virus to others.”
I stocked up on N95s earlier this month, saw this coming since I don’t rely on the CDC to finally admit to what is clear to those who are paying attention. As usual the CDC is too little, too late.
“The Centers for Disease Control reversed course Monday and said it now recommends indoor masks for the vaccinated in all areas of the country where COVID infections are surging. CDC director Dr. Rochelle Walensky cited unpublished data from recent days suggesting that vaccinated people may be able to spread the Delta variant just as easily as unvaccinated people.
We’re back in a phase of constantly shifting information and data — and just last week we had experts casting doubt on whether vaccinated and mildly symptomatic or asymptomatic cases should be counted as “breakthrough” cases, and others casting doubt on whether vaccinated people could spread the virus easily.
…As the Associated Press notes, Walensky cited data from the last few days, still unpublished, taken from 100 samples from vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with COVID infections. They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly “indistinguishable” from what was found in unvaccinated people, confirming what some experts have suspected. The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus. Walensky said that the data was “concerning enough that we feel like we have to act.”
https://sfist.com/2021/07/27/cdc-confirms-that-viral-loads-in-vaccinated-people-with-delta-are-indistinguishable-from-unvaccinated/
Found the news about “iterations” or cycles used to fake the prevalence of COVID.
“So, in summary, with regard to our current “casedemic”, positive tests as they are counted today do not indicate a “case” of anything. They indicate that viral RNA was found in a nasal swab. It may be enough to make you sick, but according to the New York Times and their experts, probably won’t. And certainly not sufficient replication of the virus to make anyone else sick. But you will be sent home for ten days anyway, even if you never have a sniffle. And this is the number the media breathlessly reports… and is used to fearmonger mask mandates and lockdowns nationwide…”
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/why-cdc-quietly-abandoning-pcr-test-covid
“They found that the amount of virus in the noses and throats of vaccinated infected people was nearly “indistinguishable””
Can the experts distinguish between who is being hospitalized and dying? That’s really all that matters.
“The increased viral load associated with the Delta variant appears to make vaccinated people equal spreaders of the virus.”
Are they equally likely to go to the hospital and/or die?
“Walensky said that the data was “concerning enough that we feel like we have to act.”
The person that said in March at a Congressional hearing “we are doomed”. She lost her credibility on the issue with that comment.
What is Walensky doing to get people vaccinated? If there is anything “concerning” that requires action from her department that is what she should be solely focused on.
The rest is noise.
“Are they equally likely to go to the hospital and/or die?”
The vaccine appears to make the symptoms less,only time will tell how it evolves, as this doctor who comments on a blog that I follow points out, in response to Joan Walsh story in The Nation bashing unvaccinated Republicans:
IM Doc
July 27, 2021 at 3:53 pm
“I am getting very tired of the whole blame the unvaccinated trope. Maybe it is me being a physician for 30 years – having been part of numerous epidemics of the flu which were pretty bad in their own right – and having absolutely no one say a word about anyone’s vaccine status. My job is to take care of people where they are – it is not to judge them when they are ill. The media is doing the devil’s work for sure. Psst – guys – it is not working. I am on the front lines – believe me – you are making things much much worse. It is almost like you want a civil war.
An update for today – I have had a new superspreader event that I am dealing with all morning. So far no one in the hospital – but we are getting close on two different patients. This particular time was a planned event. There were 20 invitees – and part of the condition of coming to the event was all had to be vaccinated. So far we have 12 positives for sure – and 3 more who are sick and likely positive. All fully vaccinated. Again – no one in the hospital. The sick include many 20somethings breakthroughs. Interestingly, many of these people were just vaccinated in the past month in response to being invited to this event. So at least in their bodies, the vaccine has not “had time to wear off” – but positive they are. We even have managed to infect two of the hired staff – both vaccinated. And that was it. There were no others involved. No unvaccinated deplorable to blame. Gee whiz – this virus just does not take the time to read the Salon.com narratives. Multiple others in contact with them are now being tested. I have not had time to deal with the health department yet, but almost assuredly, none of these people will be counted – they are not hospitalized nor are they health care workers.
We still have just the 1 patient in the hospital who is doing better – and there are no new ones in the ER right now. Still pretty quiet.
In my old urban core hospital before I moved to this area, the unvaccinated are about 75% of the admissions. The other vaccinated 25% are mostly diabetic, obese or immunocompromised – mostly elderly. Basically, the same crowd that fell victim last year.
This is the same city whose reddit and twitter feeds are playing one video after another for the past month of multiple gigantic night clubs of all ethnic backgrounds with thousands of people bumping and grinding with no mask in sight. And yet Joan Walsh has the gall to just blame “the unvaccinated” for this situation. There really is no shame – nor is there any medical truths in these proclamations. There are consequences when you put all your eggs in just one basket when dealing with any epidemic. We have NEVER – NOT ONE TIME – deployed this public health strategy in my lifetime.
I am pretty much telling all my patients right now on every visit – It is clear that these vaccines offer you no immunity from getting COVID. It is literally a flip of the coin. They do seem to at this point make the symptoms less. That is all I am willing to tell them – because I am now reporting truths that I am seeing with my own eyes. Long ago I realized that telling even white lies to patients is never a good strategy. So I do not.
For those who are at special risk – the elderly, the obese, diabetics, or immunocompromised – all visits are on tele – and I am encouraging them strongly not to leave the house.
I still strongly feel that high risk patients should be vaccinated – and I go through this multiple times daily.
For everyone else [vaccination is certainly OK but for the unvaccinated]– out in the sun as much as possible, exercise, lose weight, vitamin D, decrease stress, sleep well, and hug your kids and your spouse as much as you can. Do not , like Joan Walsh and many others like her, be the source of contention and strife.
Sorry about the rant – it gets harder and harder to stomach the lies.
This is a decision we are all going to have to make. And I am afraid for all the Joan Walsh types out there that celebrating deaths of unvaccinated patients like I have seen in the media repeatedly this past few weeks is unbecoming of a moral person. It is literally ghoulish. And is making things much much worse for those of us trying to do the right things on the front line.” (nakedcapitalism.com)
“Found the news about “iterations” or cycles used to fake the prevalence of COVID.”
So you get your medical advice from non-medical professionals. Smart.
“Are they equally likely to go to the hospital and/or die?”
That’s not the only thing that matters. On the one hand you act like it doesn’t matter that unvaccinated people will die but then you turn around and say that the CDC should focus on getting people vaccinated. You can lead a horse to water…
The CDC focuses on minimizing deaths in whatever way is available to them. Sure they want more vaccinated people but the country has a collective IQ problem so the CDC focuses on the next available mechanism to minimize deaths. Yeah, the vaccinated need to look out for the unvaccinated. I don’t have a problem with the minimal effort required to do that.
“That’s not the only thing that matters.”
The whole point of the last 16 months was preventing hospitalization and death. So yes it is and was.
“On the one hand you act like it doesn’t matter that unvaccinated people will die”
Because we have a a highly effective vaccine that prevents hospitalization and death that is readily available for free
“but then you turn around and say that the CDC should focus on getting people vaccinated.”
Prevents hospitalization and death
“You can lead a horse to water…”
You sure the G has effectively lead the horses to water? I would say the G said the water is over there now figure out how you will get there
“The CDC focuses on minimizing deaths in whatever way is available to them”
in part through funding vaccine research leading to vaccines which save lives.
“Sure they want more vaccinated people but the country has a collective IQ problem”
I think their community outreach has been very lazy. Outside of setting up mass vaccine sites, facilitating the distribution of the vaccine to state governments, and running a few ads they haven’t done much on this part. Oh I forget someone from the administration goes on CNN/MSNBC for softball interviews on how great they are.
Why hasn’t Fauci or someone from the administration been on Joe Rogan? 100 million subscribers but Jen Psaki goes on Brian Stelter who barely gets 100K.
The Boomers and the remaining silent generation controlling Washington are stuck in the 70’s and 80’s ways of doing things….
Their communication strategies don’t work today.
“Yeah, the vaccinated need to look out for the unvaccinated.”
Or the Government could spend some money/time on effective communication strategies one being picking up a few days of sick leave so people get the jab.
“I don’t have a problem with the minimal effort required to do that.”
I do. I’ve done enough.
This is some serious racist/bigoted conversation going on here. What is so difficult to understand that white conservatives/and black and brown people just don’t want the vaccine. It’s now available everywhere, at your jewel, at the doctors office, at the hospital, vaccination sites. Everywhere.
To blame ‘lack of communication’ or ‘low IQ’ missed the point and is borderline racist/bigoted/soft bigotry of low expectations.
WE DON’T WANT THE G*D D**N VACCINE. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN WE MAKE IT.
“So you get your medical advice from non-medical professionals.”
He gets his history and theology from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, so it’s not really a surprise.
“white conservatives”
“is borderline racist/bigoted/soft bigotry of low expectations.”
Hmmm. Can’t figure out which one applies here.
“Why hasn’t Fauci or someone from the administration been on Joe Rogan?”
Do you really think Fauci would sit for an interview with anyone pimping that many different “patent medicines”? Or that Joe’s advertisers would be happy with Fauci slipping in a “that’s snake oil” after an ad?
He’d be more likely to sit through Tucker’s “questions”.
“Someone from the admin” is a reasonably fair point, but they’re afraid of getting “dubious Joe” or “fully baked Joe”, and they correctly assess that there is a measurable chance of such an appearance being counterproductive.
With the new CDC guidance Will County is now recommended within the region for indoor mask wearing among all people. Cook County remains one level below substantial transmission at moderate transmission.
The Illinois Public Health Director today added nine more states to the five already on the travel advisory list requiring testing for the un-vaccinated upon coming to Illinois.
So why isn’t Lollapalooza canceled yet, exactly?
Given it is proceeding as planned I don’t think the IDPH director, the mayor, the governor nor any other public official will have any goodwill left to try to further restrict travel, business or movement in the weeks & months ahead.
I am so sure the people coming into town for Lollapalooza from those 14 states that are unvaccinated are arriving a few days early to self-isolate and test prior to attending the festival. This is insanity and shows the complete dysfunction in Illinois government.
“So why isn’t Lollapalooza canceled yet, exactly?”
It should have been canceled.
I don’t know about the rest of you who actually live in Chicago, but I’m not going anywhere near restaurants, public transport, indoor areas downtown this weekend while 100,000 tourists are in town from who knows where.
Unfortunately, the restaurant/hotel workers don’t have the same choice.
“So why isn’t Lollapalooza canceled yet, exactly”
Everyone there is either vaccinated, tested negative, and it’s outside
Pritzker is going with his wife and friends. Too late for him to back out now. Optics would be bad.
Lightfoot needs the hotel and sales tax money.
Oh and the Unions setting the stages and everything haven’t had festival work in a year and half
“Everyone there is either vaccinated, tested negative, and it’s outside.”
That’s not my issue. Again, obviously you don’t live in Chicago WP and have never been downtown when it’s going on. The hotels will be packed. Everyone will be inside and mingling shoulder to shoulder in restaurants and elsewhere.
It’s a horrible situation. But the cases didn’t start to rise until it got too close to the event.
Yes, the Delta variant is spreading that fast.
Lightfoot needs the hotel and sales tax money? How about the city needs it? My god. Still rooting against this great city. Why?
I don’t understand the bears on this blog who WANT Chicago, Illinois and America to fail.
I don’t get it.
Where does that leave you?
“That’s not my issue.”
Run for Mayor or Governor then….
“Again, obviously you don’t live in Chicago WP and have never been downtown when it’s going on.”
I literally live 1/2 mile from Grant Park so ok. In addition to your response being wrong it was also irrelevant to the question at hand “So why isn’t Lollapalooza canceled yet, exactly”
” Everyone will be inside and mingling shoulder to shoulder in restaurants and elsewhere.”
The concerts are outside in Grant Park starting at 11 AM ending at what 10 pm? so that’s where they will be “mingling shoulder to shoulder” (with the Governor, his wife, and their friends). Not at a restaurant (well i’m sure JB will). The elsewhere will be at a bar or house party after the concert ends.
“It’s a horrible situation.”
A concert in a park outside with vaccinated people or people having negative covid tests is now a “horrible situation” good lord NIMBY.
Just say it old angry lady “Get off my lawn”
“Lightfoot needs the hotel and sales tax money? How about the city needs it? My god. Still rooting against this great city. Why?”
You are the one wanting to wear a pink hat to city hall protesting that it’s even happening but this is me rooting against the city? Lol
“I don’t understand the bears on this blog who WANT Chicago, Illinois and America to fail.”
I’m wanting the country to fail because Lolla is happening? Hitting the bottle hard tonight eh?
“Where does that leave you?”
I’ll be out of town for the weekend. So that’s where it leaves me I suppose.
I guess it leaves you hiding under the bed in a hazmat suit?
“The concerts are outside in Grant Park starting at 11 AM ending at what 10 pm? so that’s where they will be “mingling shoulder to shoulder” (with the Governor, his wife, and their friends). Not at a restaurant (well i’m sure JB will). The elsewhere will be at a bar or house party after the concert ends.’
Um…if you live a half mile from Grant Park, you would know not everyone goes to the concert all day. And not all have tickets to all the days.
They are all over the city, literally, every day. So much so, that I had work colleagues who used to work from home during those days rather than deal with the madness in the loop.
So, yeah, I’m expecting complete chaos.
“I’m wanting the country to fail because Lolla is happening? Hitting the bottle hard tonight eh?”
Accusing me of being drunk is just a sign that you have absolutely NO argument. It’s a little tiring to respond to someone with nothing to say except “Chicago sucks.”
What a sad life.
I have noticed that the bears really can’t talk about housing on this site. It’s just too good. They can only come on and hate, hate, hate on the city they live in which makes them just look stupid for living there.
In fact, few of the bears ever make any comments on the actual real estate at all.
By the way, for those who are watching this 4th wave of COVID unfold, it’s starting to have economic impacts now. Supply chain really getting hammered again in Southeast Asia.
If they stay in lockdown for another few weeks, it’s going to really hurt.
Well daily cases are near where they were last year this time on a 7-day average, around 17% less. But daily deaths are down 72%.
If this decoupling between cases & deaths keeps up & I hope it does, it means it should be infeasible for the government to try to re-institute restrictions.
The real risk is in winter if daily deaths are down ~66% from last year but still 1k deaths/day will our government be foolish enough to try to shut down again?
“Everyone there is either vaccinated, tested negative, and it’s outside”
Aside from the fact that vaccinated people getting infected is NOT rare, and that they can spread it to more vulnerable people even if they don’t get seriously ill, you have the facts wrong:
“The festival is requiring attendees to show proof they’re fully vaccinated or they’ve had a negative COVID-19 test within 72 hours of arriving. Unvaccinated visitors will have to wear a mask the entire time, though it’s not clear how that will be enforced once people are inside.”
https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/07/27/will-lollapalooza-be-a-super-spreader-event-chicagos-top-doc-says-cases-likely-but-show-is-safe-anyway/
“If this decoupling between cases & deaths keeps up & I hope it does, it means it should be infeasible for the government to try to re-institute restrictions.”
Deaths always come later, though. Look at hospitalizations. In some states, it’s on its way to the winter highs.
Austin hospitals are preparing for a big COVID surge as cases rise. But let’s hope they are just hospitalized, and fewer die.
I think shutdowns will be on a city by city and state by state basis. If your hospitals get overwhelmed, you won’t have any choice but to put on some restrictions to try and bend the curve.
Florida is the worst right now. But cases are spiking in Louisiana. 6,000 cases yesterday alone. Ugh. Watch those two states for a model as to what might happen later elsewhere. New Orleans mayor is already putting some restrictions on event size and business capacity. Louisiana governor says he won’t put on other restrictions. Just recommends people wear masks but no mask mandate.
I will keep deleting Helmethofer’s comments as long as all he is doing is calling people names and spreading his hate.
“I will keep deleting Helmethofer’s comments as long as all he is doing is calling people names and spreading his hate.”
You should be commended for your committment to free speech for allowing 99.9% of all comments to remain up from posters from all perspectives. Many of HH’s comments are, without a doubt, the .1% that you any reasonable person could delete while remaining committed to free speech.
As for the bears, you once said everyone wants to see the crash. Housing is super hot now, and expensive, and not as interesting. The crash will come soon and it will get interesting again. I’m looking forward to $99,000 town home foreclosure in Skokie again that today sell for upwards of $300k.
HD: You couldn’t make it in the city. That’s your gig, and you’re tagged with the failure forever.
Sabrina: Calling someone racist, bigot, hater, or etc. is a rhetorical device from someone losing a debate. You just literally cannot handle when your worldview is shown to be false.
What do you have to say about our Chicago community organizer and civil rights activist now? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9832163/Barack-Obama-planning-star-studded-60th-birthday-party-Marthas-Vineyard-mansion.html
People are shot every weekend and he DOES NOT care. Everything I say is true. Virtuous. Gonna censor it?
Helmethofer,
Almost nothing that you say is true. What does Obama’s birthday party have to do with weekend shootings?
“Florida is the worst right now. But cases are spiking in Louisiana. 6,000 cases yesterday alone. Ugh. Watch those two states for a model as to what might happen later elsewhere. New Orleans mayor is already putting some restrictions on event size and business capacity. Louisiana governor says he won’t put on other restrictions. Just recommends people wear masks but no mask mandate.”
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1420398811080503296
If we’re using the “Science”, LA, MO & AR seem to have peaked wrt Rt (Yeah would feel better in making that call in a week or 2)
“If we’re using the “Science”, LA, MO & AR seem to have peaked wrt Rt (Yeah would feel better in making that call in a week or 2)”
Don’t know. These were the first states to see an outbreak. Has been ongoing for weeks now. Will definitely be the first to “peak.” Delta variant is different than the original variant. Even the head of Pfizer said today he’s not sure why hospitalizations are rising again in the UK even with their vaccination rates.
The good news is, that the outbreak is so bad in Louisiana that people are rushing out to get vaccinated now so they don’t die. Pharmacies are having to order more of the vaccine this week and said they are seeing a rush of people coming in.
“What does Obama’s birthday party have to do with weekend shootings?”
Nothing.
HH: Obama doesn’t live in Chicago. He hasn’t for 13 years now.
Get over your obsession.
“The crash will come soon and it will get interesting again. I’m looking forward to $99,000 town home foreclosure in Skokie again that today sell for upwards of $300k.”
Now this is what I want to talk about: housing.
Let’s talk about this.
How will a “crash” happen in the Chicagoland market? Housing has only “crashed” in Chicagoland one time in the last 80 years and it was obviously the housing bust of 2008-2012.
We know what caused that to occur.
Right now, none of the conditions of 2008-2012 are present with the exception of rising prices. There isn’t much speculation nor is there excess inventory.
In order to get a “crash” you have to have more inventory, correct? Where is that going to come from?
The number of properties in forbearance continues to drop, but is still several million nationwide. But many of those homeowners will benefit from the rise in prices because if they cannot get a refi and stay in the property, they should be able to sell and get out of it. I’m doubtful many will go into foreclosure. And in Illinois, even if you do, as we know from 2008-2012, it can take anywhere from 18 months to 8 years for those foreclosed properties to come back on the market owned by the bank.
A rise in mortgage rates could bring more inventory on the market as the sales will cool. But, again, it would have to be a big slowdown to get the rise in inventory.
But I am legitimately interested in how you think a “crash” plays out.
BS How would you know? You don’t know where anyone lives if they post using a VPN. Nobody still knows whether HD lives in Park Ridge or Long Grove. The last thing of note, which you censored, was my quip about the bar on North Ave called the Delta which was packed last Friday night during the Wicker Park fest. I wanted to snap a photo but I was driving. Who the F would make that up? Gary knows that I’m a Chicagoan.
So, how about the Biden Entity demanding lockdowns, masks, travel restrictions and a still closed US/Canada border…all the while with an open US-Mexico border? Make any sense? The South American LAMBDA variant is now in Texas because of hundreds of thousands of unmasked and unvaxxed illegal immigrants.
How can you people not see this is a farce and hypocrisy?? Are you truthful at all?
Re: Obama, it most certainly is relevant to show how he doesn’t help the poor, and he doesn’t come to Chicago to help community organize. Instead he amasses riches and luxuries, while the people he purportedly cares about are suffering. He bullsh!tted all his voters. Suckers, and that’s an apt term for the sheeple, not hame-calling.
“So, how about the Biden Entity demanding lockdowns, masks, travel restrictions and a still closed US/Canada border…all the while with an open US-Mexico border? Make any sense? The South American LAMBDA variant is now in Texas because of hundreds of thousands of unmasked and unvaxxed illegal immigrants.”
The US-Mexico border is closed. But you can fly in. You have been able to fly back and forth since the start of the pandemic. Why didn’t Trump shut it down? He didn’t.
The Lambda variant is from Peru. I don’t see how it’s relevant to say that immigrants brought it. Did Indian immigrants bring us the Delta?
Dumb.
The issue in Texas is simply that not enough people have gotten the vaccine. That’s on them. Austin hospitals should not have to be preparing for a “mass casualty” event. The vaccine has been available for months. For free. At the corner pharmacy, church etc.
No excuses. Quit blaming others for this outbreak.
“Re: Obama, it most certainly is relevant to show how he doesn’t help the poor, and he doesn’t come to Chicago to help community organize. Instead he amasses riches and luxuries, while the people he purportedly cares about are suffering. He bullsh!tted all his voters. Suckers, and that’s an apt term for the sheeple, not hame-calling.”
He has been out of office for 5 years now. Move on.
But, incredibly, his vice-president is on his way to becoming one of the most consequential presidents of the last 50 years.
Go figure.
“Don’t know. These were the first states to see an outbreak. Has been ongoing for weeks now. Will definitely be the first to “peak.” Delta variant is different than the original variant. Even the head of Pfizer said today he’s not sure why hospitalizations are rising again in the UK even with their vaccination rates.”
You should have stopped after your first 2 words
Do you even look at the data? If the slope goes negative on the RT curve thats a good thing
“BS How would you know? You don’t know where anyone lives if they post using a VPN.”
It’s been obvious for a decade you don’t live in Chicago HH as everything you comment on is something from like the 1990s. You get restaurants wrong, what is happening in neighborhoods, new buildings etc.
Also, you clearly hate Chicago so much. Who stays somewhere he hates?
You’d have to be stupid to do so (unless you’re in jail, and have no choice.)
If you were in your 20s or 30s, there are jobs EVERYWHERE. The Southeast is booming, as we’ve recounted here many times. Millennials can get a great job in just about any area in the Southeast cities within a day right now.
So why stay in Chicago, which you have said over and over sucks?
Because you’re not in Chicago. And you’re obviously not a Millennial either. I’m also assuming you’ve been retired for many, many years.
“it most certainly is relevant to show how he doesn’t help the poor… Instead he amasses riches and luxuries, while the people he purportedly cares about are suffering. He bullsh!tted all his voters.”
Sounds just like the last president. Don’t you think?
“Do you even look at the data? If the slope goes negative on the RT curve thats a good thing”
But the UK “peaked” and now is going the other way again. So who knows?
This isn’t 2020.
homedelete,
“WE DON’T WANT THE G*D D**N VACCINE. HOW MUCH MORE CLEAR CAN WE MAKE IT.”
Well, you can tell me how you feel about the Polio and Measles vaccine. You want those?
“Well, you can tell me how you feel about the Polio and Measles vaccine. You want those?”
Sure, they’re well tolerated, safe, long duration studied, and effective. Can’t say the same for the coronavirus vax.
Many of us are not at risk for serious infection from coronavirus; and especially considering so many of us already have natural immunity.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19
“Time since infection ranged from six days after symptom onset to eight months later. More than 40 participants had been recovered for more than six months before the study began. About 50 people provided blood samples at more than one time after infection.
The research was funded in part by NIH’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) and National Cancer Institute (NCI). Results were published on January 6, 2021, in Science.
The researchers found durable immune responses in the majority of people studied. Antibodies against the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, which the virus uses to get inside cells, were found in 98% of participants one month after symptom onset. As seen in previous studies, the number of antibodies ranged widely between individuals. But, promisingly, their levels remained fairly stable over time, declining only modestly at 6 to 8 months after infection.”
fOllOw ThE sCiEnCe
ScIeNce:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9834687/Proof-Covid-turning-mild-illness-Survivors-reinfected-lower-viral-loads.html
“Covid survivors who get reinfected have lower viral loads and are less likely to suffer symptoms, official data suggested today.
Scientists claim the figures — taken from an analysis of almost 20,000 Britons — are proof the disease is becoming milder.
Studies show infected people who have lower viral loads are less likely to become ill and spread the virus. “
Florida is the new epicenter for the largest outbreak in the nation, specifically in Jacksonville and Orlando.
Hospitalizations now past the winter surge peak which was 7200.
Hospitalizations are rising too quickly now. Last Friday, just 5200 hospitalized. Already up 3,000 in just 5 days.
https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2021/07/28/greater-jacksonville-leads-florida-nation-in-covid-increases/
“The Florida Hospital Association reported there were 8,816 COVID-19 patients hospitalized across the state as of Thursday — four times as many as there were a month ago and 87% of the peak seen during last summer’s surge. But the Jacksonville area was experiencing 154% of last July’s peak and the Orlando area was 115% of last summer’s peak.”
From Florida:
Late Tuesday, Michael Mayo, CEO of Baptist Health, said they are seeing an all-time high of of COVID-19 patients and posted an urgent appeal on its Facebook page:
“It’s never been as bad as it is now,” wrote Mayo. “Today, our number of COVID-positive patients surpassed 400, 18 of whom were children, from infants and school-age kids to teens and young adults. Though this figure changes daily, the percentage of unvaccinated patients has consistently stayed above 97% during this surge. The human cost of COVID-19 is real. According to a study recently published in The Lancet, more than 1.5 million children lost a primary or secondary caregiver to COVID-19.”
“But I am legitimately interested in how you think a “crash” plays out.”
Inflation, without wage growth, duh. So, the 70s/early 80s, but starting from a point of relatively high RE values.
$300k mortgage @ 3% = 1265/mo
@ 7%, what does $1265/mo get you? $191,100 = 30.3% less.
Yes, of course few people “have to” move, but if the places that do trade trade at 30% off, then there are no helocs, and no equity for any recent “normal” (ie 80% ltv) buyers.
I DON’T CARE TO HEAR about how unlikely that is. But a forecast of a crash is most likely to be based on a forecast of stagflation. Which is a legit (even if you think it is remote) worry.
Citing the Daily Mail? Really?
May as well cite TMZ.
Anyway, also in the link:
“Indian variant [ie, Delta] is 46% more likely to cause reinfection”
From WP on July 22:
“Jacksonville hospitals are not “filling-up”. There ICU capacity hasn’t been below 75% full since last September.
Total hospitalizations are barely above half of January’s peak…..”
So much for not seeing where things are obviously heading.
“Inflation, without wage growth, duh. So, the 70s/early 80s, but starting from a point of relatively high RE values.”
We’re already getting wage growth, however.
But I agree, that a spike in mortgage rates from 3% to 7% in a quick period of time would certainly cause a severe disruption to the housing market.
The United States has always been a monthly payment nation. Anything that pushes up that monthly payment is going to hurt. Especially now that monthly payments have literally been falling for about 30 years.
But interestingly, in the 1970s, home prices didn’t crash. But it was a different type of market. Back in the 70s, home buyers simply traded down and bought a small house or in a slightly cheaper neighborhood. In some places, like California, there is no way to trade down if those mortgage rates rise. Literally 90%+ will be priced out.
People would stay in their current homes a looooooong time if rates really did spike to 7%.
Lol.
“Citing the Daily Mail? Really? May as well cite TMZ.”
Daily Mail is probably the most comprehensive basic news source online, and middle of the road. It’s not the Guardian or Wapo or NYT which are extremist left at this late cultural stage. TMZ is Harvey Levin trash, not comparable.
“[re: Obama] Sounds just like the last president. Don’t you think?”
No. Trump was an avowed capitalist repping the American Dream. Obama was an Alinksyite socialist community organizer who had to get help from crook Tony Rezko to buy his very first SFH on the southside. Now Obama focuses on luxury and wealth accumulation from not-honest days work. Obama summers on Martha’s Vineyard full of rich whites, without caring one iota about Chicago’s poor and black lives. Sabrina should complain about him leaving Chicago and retiring into elite greed. He’s not fighting “the man”, he now reps it, and Antifa is now ironically the shock troops of the government!
“HH as everything you comment on is something from like the 1990s. You get restaurants wrong, what is happening in neighborhoods, new buildings etc.”
Name just one example. I know you lie, because you said I didn’t live in Chicago when you should have seen my IP address a few years back was at the the CPL – West Town branch on Chicago Ave across from the live chicken place. I was unemployed at that time. I don’t know what else to tell you, but the Delta exists. It’s a bar on North Ave and last weekend I drove by it after Wicker Park fest, and it was loaded with unmasked people. Ironic. I don’t make this crap up. Crumbl cookie took over the Insomniac cookie place on Milwaukee Ave. They have the same pink boxes almost like Stan’s. I watched Euro soccer with my Irish transplant buddies at AJ Hudson’s. Just ate at Gallucci pizza in Old Town. Crumbl cookie isn’t open yet on Wells but they have a sign up. Galucci pizza, by the way, is better than Da Nella who moved down to Hyde Park near the DCAM hospital. Do I need to describe in detail the garage across the street?
“The Lambda variant is from Peru. I don’t see how it’s relevant to say that immigrants brought it.”
Please. It’s been found in TX. Occam’s razor.
“Please. It’s been found in TX. Occam’s razor”
Gasp. The variants can travel across borders like the Delta variant and the South African variant?
Who knew?
Delta variant doesn’t fit your “theory” however because that means it flew in, right?
Pulease HH. You’re not living in Chicago. You wait 10 years to suddenly start listing all the restaurants you’ve gone to that anyone can look up on Google maps or Yelp?
Lol.
As I’ve said many times, there are cities I’ve never been to where I could easily do the same. Could tell you the hot restaurants. Could tell you where they are building new apartments or condos.
It’s not hard if you actually read local news and websites.
“No. Trump was an avowed capitalist repping the American Dream.”
So it’s okay to live with a gold toilet as long as you embrace it before you’re president?
Lol.
Obama is done. He’s over. He can’t come back HH. Move on from your OBSESSION with him.
He is, however, going to bring a couple hundred jobs to the south side of the city and probably spur more development in that neighborhood with his presidential center. They are currently hiring in Chicago, LA and New York.
“Daily Mail is probably the most comprehensive basic news source online, and middle of the road.”
You’ve really lost all credibility now HH.
The Daily Fail?
So sad.
“Many of us are not at risk for serious infection from coronavirus; and especially considering so many of us already have natural immunity.”
Well, yeah, if someone has already been infected then there is way less motivation to get the vaccine. That would be rational. But for people who have not been previously infected…
“Sure, they’re well tolerated, safe, long duration studied, and effective. Can’t say the same for the coronavirus vax.”
I think there is plenty of data on the Trump vaccine and it looks pretty damn safe and effective. I don’t hear of anyone dying from it. On the other hand 300 unvaccinated people die every day on average. The decision looks pretty damn obvious to me.
“Sure, they’re well tolerated, safe, long duration studied, and effective. Can’t say the same for the coronavirus vax.”
———————————–
Well, we’ve had rare side effects from the covid vaxes, and the side effects are pretty minor, especially now that doctors are aware of them and can treat them. This is after tens of millions of doses and many months of injections.
So the vaccines are well tolerated and safe. Given the rarity of breakthrough infections/reinfections among the vaccinated, we know that the vaccines are effective.
As for long duration studied, you go me there. All I can say is that polio and measles and other vaccines were taken when they hadn’t been “long duration studied,” and they proved to be well tolerated, safe, and effective.
So what makes you think that the covid vaccines won’t turn out just like the polio and measles and other vaccines? Must be some reason, however inane and illogical.
“Da Nella who moved down to Hyde Park near the DCAM hospital”
How is being on literally the opposite corner of the UC campus “near”?? It’s 3/4 mile away!
In CC distance, it may as well be in another time zone.
“But I agree, that a spike in mortgage rates from 3% to 7% in a quick period of time would certainly cause a severe disruption to the housing market.”
Incorrect. Generally speaking Americans love debt and women have an evolved nesting instinct and are pretty adept at nagging to get what they want so RE values rise to whatever current wages can afford given financing constraints.
So we’re not talking about 3% to 7% for a huge RE crash. Try a 30-year going from 2.5% to 4% would do it.
Remember, a 4% interest rate is a 60% increase in interest expense over 2.5% whereas a 7% interest rate is only a 27% increase over the same differential from a 5.5% rate.
You fail to understand that as we approach zero on interest rates/the asymptote we’re in any little increase has a much more magnified effect on affordability vs previous eras of similar increases.
The only way to prevent this is making low interest rates a new entitlement which appears to be happening. It can be done so long as inflation doesn’t appear. Inflation is here and Biden is the 21st century Jimmy Carter.
“So we’re not talking about 3% to 7% for a huge RE crash. Try a 30-year going from 2.5% to 4% would do it.”
Nah. Come on.
We were at 4% many times in recent years including in 2017. And Chicago prices haven’t gone up like Austin’s 30%.
I believe the 4% level would, certainly, slow the market. It did in 2017 and that was after getting as low as 3.5%. Not where we were last year or even right now at around 3%.
By the way, if you really think inflation is here then that’s even better for the real estate market. Renters don’t remember what it’s like to see rents rise sharply. Inflation means it will be much cheaper to buy and hold. More people will want to own under that scenario to lock in a payment.
Bob, the crash is coming because prices are beyond what most normal people can afford. Chicago is relatively cheap compared to other places too. A 2,000 sq ft split level in my new hometown of Orland Park is half a mil; that same place is $750,000 in SLC and nearly a Mil in Naples, FL. People can’t afford this, they’re borrowing up to their eyeballs, and the home equity loans people take out based on these valuations are unsustainable. It might be interest rates, stock market crash, flooding of the market with the foreclosures from the foreclosure moratoriums. Its going to be bad, very very bad.
“the crash is coming because prices are beyond what most normal people can afford.”
If normal people couldn’t afford current prices then current prices wouldn’t be where they are. People are qualifying for these mortgages or paying cash. Granted my own personal experience skews towards the upper price points.
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
? Upton Sinclair, I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked
I don’t think it will “crash” as hard here as other places with hugely inflated values. Especially with no policy movement on the tax code IL benefits with most mortgages being below the limit even if they are hit by the SALT cap a bit.
On the coasts they are getting crushed by the combination of the SALT cap and the 750k mortgage interest deduction limit.
I don’t think Chicago being better relative to NYC/LA/SF means it will be great here either.
“Nah. Come on.
We were at 4% many times in recent years including in 2017. And Chicago prices haven’t gone up like Austin’s 30%.
I believe the 4% level would, certainly, slow the market. It did in 2017 and that was after getting as low as 3.5%. Not where we were last year or even right now at around 3%.”
Comparing today, going to 4% on a $500k pad is going to wipe out $50k in value (Using Mo payment as the go by). This will be an albatross around the 2/2 starter condo/TH owners necks. How are the folks that bought into the shills “RE only goes up?” going to move up?
WTF are you bringing up Austin as a comp? Austin has a much different migration pattern and is a completely different market. Chicago has zero in common w/ Austin, Nashville, etc.
“If normal people couldn’t afford current prices then current prices wouldn’t be where they are. People are qualifying for these mortgages or paying cash. Granted my own personal experience skews towards the upper price points.”
How many of these people are going to be house poor though? How many have enough savings to last through 6 months of unemployment/underemployment? How many would be wiped out by an unexpected medical expense? How many can afford to have their taxes go up another 20% (I was just reassessed an additional 20% and am lucky I can pay the tax increase that will come with it)?
The bank says that I can afford a lot more than I’d feel comfortable spending. I’d have to save less for retirement and if I dipped into my emergency fund, rebuilding it would be difficult.
1927-1933 Chart of Pompous Prognosticators
http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2006/11/1927-1933-chart-of-pompous-prognosticators/
4. “There may be a recession in stock prices, but not anything in the nature of a crash.”
– Irving Fisher, leading U.S. economist , New York Times, Sept. 5, 1929
“Stock prices will stay at high levels for years to come, says Ohio economist”
– The New York Times, II, Page 7, Col. 2, Oct 13, 1929
5. “Stock prices have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau. I do not feel there will be soon if ever a 50 or 60 point break from present levels, such as (bears) have predicted. I expect to see the stock market a good deal higher than it is today within a few months.”
– Irving Fisher, Ph.D. in economics, Oct. 17, 1929
The market went into decline until Monday, October 21st, 1929
https://www.aei.org/nowcast-10-metros-most-threatened-by-high-numbers-of-fha-delinquencies-may-2021/
Nowcast: 10 metros most threatened by high numbers of FHA delinquencies (May 2021 Update)
% of active FHA loans that are …
Delinquent Seriously Delinquent
May 2021 14.7% 10.5%
Chicago-Naperville-Evanston area is #3 for FHA delinquent loans.
https://dsnews.com/daily-dose/07-30-2021/fhfa-extends-eviction-moratorium-through-september
16 minutes ago:
FHFA Extends Eviction Moratorium Through September
The Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) has announced that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (the GSEs) are extending the moratorium on single-family real estate-owned (REO) evictions until Thursday, September 30, 2021. The REO eviction moratorium applies to properties that have been acquired by a GSE through foreclosure or deed-in-lieu of foreclosure transactions.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-aid-planned-for-mortgage-borrowers-at-risk-of-foreclosure-11627032601
New Aid Coming for Mortgage Borrowers at Risk of Foreclosure
Biden administration aims to reduce monthly payments by up to 25% for those with federally backed mortgages who are at the end of forbearance
TL;DR:
Loan mods, loan mods and more loan mods. 40 year mortgages, artificially low interest rates, balloon payments at the end.
HOUSING PRICES WILL NEVER CRASH!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/house-dems-hustle-for-votes-to-extend-eviction-moratorium-after-eleventh-hour-biden-push/
*House Dems hustle for votes to extend eviction moratorium after eleventh-hour Biden push*
47 mins ago
Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her leadership team are scrambling to nail down the votes for an eleventh-hour push to extend the federal eviction moratorium — likely to be the House’s final task before the departing for its lengthy August recess.
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1420956806772371459
Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec
White House chatter is that lockdowns for delta variant all but a done deal. Virtually all blue states are cooperating with WH / CDC. They’re aiming for late 2nd week of August, per WH official
GET READY FOLKS!
“https://www.aei.org/nowcast-10-metros-most-threatened-by-high-numbers-of-fha-delinquencies-may-2021/
Nowcast: 10 metros most threatened by high numbers of FHA delinquencies (May 2021 Update)
% of active FHA loans that are …
Delinquent Seriously Delinquent
May 2021 14.7% 10.5%
Chicago-Naperville-Evanston area is #3 for FHA delinquent loans.”
HD – Believe these are FHA loans, not the total market. I think there’s little risk this transitions into the MC-UC markets as the impacts of Covid have had a much greater impact the working class
What it may do is allow for gentrification of poor/working class areas as these folks are forced to sell/foreclosed upon
Jack Posobiec? Really? The pizzagate guy? What’s his source for “white house chatter”?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pizzagate-from-rumor-to-hashtag-to-gunfire-in-dc/2016/12/06/4c7def50-bbd4-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html
It seemed reasonable to Posobiec that Podesta might have organized a sex ring in cahoots with Brock. But the only part of the scenario that was real was that Podesta had been known to eat pizza at Comet. This part is false: pictures purporting to show that symbols, such as butterflies and spirals, in signs at Comet and other shops were statements about pedophilia.
Posobiec said he was curious and confused. He and a friend decided to go have some pizza. They walked into Comet eight days after the election, sat down and ordered. Posobiec got the garlic knots. His friend got a beer. But they were not just hanging out. Posobiec was using his phone to broadcast his evening at Comet on Periscope, an app that allows users to stream video live.
“Part of the experience of living in 2016 is live, on-the-scene broadcasts,” he said. “People have lost faith with government and the mainstream media being any real authority. After the Iraq War, after Benghazi, people are searching for other sources of information. If I can do something with Periscope and show what I’m seeing with my own two eyes, that’s helpful.”
Posobiec said he never made any disturbance inside Comet, but the restaurant’s managers saw him take his camera into a back room where a child’s birthday party was underway. It did not seem appropriate for a child’s party to be broadcast on a stranger’s Periscope feed. The manager asked two D.C. police officers who happened to be across the street to assist.
This creeper was filming a stranger’s kid’s birthday party. Seems pretty pedo-ish to me.
“White House chatter is that lockdowns for delta variant all but a done deal. Virtually all blue states are cooperating with WH / CDC. They’re aiming for late 2nd week of August, per WH official”
Mayo Clinic is looking at Florida having anywhere from 40,000 to 80,000 Covid cases per day by Aug 9 at current growth rates.
Per day.
I don’t think it’s just the blue states that will be “locking down.”
Are you going to sit inside in an air conditioned restaurant in Orlando with that much of the virus circulating, vaccinated or not? Doubtful.
Most likely, many of the businesses will do the shutdowns themselves. Close indoor dining. Do outdoor only for a few weeks. Disney just put on a mask mandate on all its US parks. Will it start restricting capacity soon? If Florida gets that bad with cases, it will have to.
And many humans will change their own behaviors, essentially also forcing the shut downs. They’ll avoid movie theaters again. They won’t eat out. They won’t take public transportation. Fewer will fly. Going back to the office will be pushed back until later in the fall.
“Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her leadership team are scrambling to nail down the votes for an eleventh-hour push to extend the federal eviction moratorium — likely to be the House’s final task before the departing for its lengthy August recess.”
If the states had figured out how to actually roll out the $47 billion in aid to renters and landlords competently, we wouldn’t be in this situation.
“HOUSING PRICES WILL NEVER CRASH!”
Your mistake is thinking they would HD.
2008-2012 was a once in a lifetime event. It’s not going to repeat itself with 6.5% GDP just 9 years later.
“1927-1933 Chart of Pompous Prognosticators”
Really? The Great Depression again?
Come on. At least compare it with something that is more relevant and likely like the Nifty Fifty.
“This will be an albatross around the 2/2 starter condo/TH owners necks. How are the folks that bought into the shills “RE only goes up?” going to move up?”
They will stay in the property JohnnyU. Just like they did in the housing crash from 2008. They will grow their equity instead.
Gasp.
Yes, behavior will change. You will no longer be buying the “starter” condo. In fact, the starter condo hasn’t really been a thing for about 10 years now because many are just renting the luxury apartments and then moving from there when their needs change.
After the bust, developers were mostly building bigger 2 bedrooms or 3 bedrooms because people wanted to have their kids in those properties.
“WTF are you bringing up Austin as a comp? Austin has a much different migration pattern and is a completely different market. Chicago has zero in common w/ Austin, Nashville, etc.”
I said we were NOT Austin. If rates rise quickly to 4%, new buyers in Austin are screwed with those price increases they’ve had.
Chicago hasn’t had as big of one. And downtown, it has seen declines. Buyers aren’t going to be priced out in Chicago even with rates at 4%.
“my new hometown of Orland Park”
Welcome back to the People’s Republic of Cook County, HD!!
Who made you move back?? Thought for sure you’d leave the state before coming back to Cook.
“If normal people couldn’t afford current prices then current prices wouldn’t be where they are. People are qualifying for these mortgages or paying cash. Granted my own personal experience skews towards the upper price points.”
As I’ve said before, this is the most qualified group of homebuyers in 20+ years.
Lending standards are still healthy. Yes, you can put down 5% now, but you’d better have the credit score and the income. Banks haven’t been loosening standards over the last 2 years.
“People can’t afford this, they’re borrowing up to their eyeballs, and the home equity loans people take out based on these valuations are unsustainable.”
No, this is completely wrong actually.
Again, the regulations put into place after the financial crisis actually continue to work. The borrowing pool is the strongest in 20 years. Few subprime loans, for instance. Higher percentage of people with the highest credit score.
And home equity loans have been relatively low compared to prior periods even with most homeowners actually now having quite a bit of equity built up. We’re in a pandemic, so some may have tapped the house in order to survive the economic chaos (same with those that took money out of their 401ks without penalties) but it was a relatively small number doing this.
Nationwide, homeowners are flush with equity thanks to rising prices.
” Believe these are FHA loans, not the total market. ”
Yup. And one reason Chicago has so many is bc there is so much of the metro that qualifies.
I do wonder how many of those are still active extend and pretends from 2008, that have been delinquent in some fashion for a decade.
“They will stay in the property JohnnyU. Just like they did in the housing crash from 2008. They will grow their equity instead.”
Day drinking again?
Again if rates go up to 4%, the “value” of their property just dropped by 10%. Its going to take quite a few years to get any “equity” in their property.
“Yes, behavior will change. You will no longer be buying the “starter” condo. In fact, the starter condo hasn’t really been a thing for about 10 years now because many are just renting the luxury apartments and then moving from there when their needs change.”
So what do you do with mountains of 1100sf 2/2? deconvert?
“After the bust, developers were mostly building bigger 2 bedrooms or 3 bedrooms because people wanted to have their kids in those properties.”
You’re flat out making this up
Enjoy box #2
“Fewer will fly.”
We have two trips scheduled. One is in a couple of weeks and we are more than likely cancelling it.
How do people think we have WAVES of Covid? It’s not like we build up herd immunity which then disappears in a few months. No. Things get bad. People retrench. The virus slows down. People relax. The virus comes back.
The economy will slow down a bit until Delta dies down. But I don’t think the housing market is going to crash because of it.
Well the house recessed without extending the eviction moratorium. And for all of the talk of promising to forgive 50k in student loan debt the Democrats just don’t have the votes. Remember the student loan debt forgiveness was supposed to be another thing that buttresses housing values because people will immediately trade one debt category for another according to Sabrina?
Yes there’s huge problems with the financing mechanism of higher education and the WSJ is doing exposes on it (and should win Pulitzer’s if our awards weren’t so politicized) but debt forgiveness without any structural reform regarding making universities have skin in the game instead of just selling the debt to Uncle Sam is insanity.
But of course the left/Democrats will never make universities accountable for what they have done: exploiting the federal backstop for student loan financing to raise tuition well in excess of inflation while they saddle students with debt they can never pay off nor get out from under because academia is one of the core constituents of the Democrat party.
So no student loan debt forgiveness, no structural reform, the debt keeps accumulating and the can gets kicked further down the road. Better hope we never run out of road.
“Better hope we never run out of road.”
——————————
That’s where infrastructure money comes in.
“Again if rates go up to 4%, the “value” of their property just dropped by 10%. Its going to take quite a few years to get any “equity” in their property.”
Um…you LIVE there.
Shrugs.
This is what happened in 2008-2009. People got “stuck” in properties. Not everyone walked away. They simply lived there longer than they thought. You live your life. It’s not an investment for most folks. They are simply living.
“After the bust, developers were mostly building bigger 2 bedrooms or 3 bedrooms because people wanted to have their kids in those properties.”
“You’re flat out making this up”
“Enjoy box #2”
I’m tired of being verbally abused by sexist jerks who are clueless about the Chicago housing market because they live in Indiana and haven’t lived in Chicago in like 30 years.
I’ll delete your comments from now on JohnnyU. My husband doesn’t know why I put up with all you stupid men on this blog and now I am agreeing with him.
But come onn
The 3-bedroom condos were all we’ve talked about on this blog for about 10 years now. Every new building was 3 to 4 bedrooms. Even in the neighborhoods like Lakeview.
Developers haven’t built that old 1100 square foot 2/2 in about 15 years now. All of the housing bubble inventory was converted to apartments or finally sold. There’s no demand for that, even today.
Like I said, the 20 to 35 year old is just renting the nice luxury 2/2. And then they’ll buy something different when they go to buy- either in the city or the suburbs.
Get into this decade Johnny
“The economy will slow down a bit until Delta dies down. But I don’t think the housing market is going to crash because of it.”
It never even crashed when the first wave hit and that was the scariest, most “unknowns” wave. And when the economy was completely locked down.
Globally economy is going to take a hit with this wave though. Asia is in a terrible spot. And America’s economy is going to take a hit, a little less though, simply from people’s changed behavior as you said Gary.
How many are going to still go to Disney?
Florida reported 110,000 cases in the last week. It had 73,000 the week before that.
“Well the house recessed without extending the eviction moratorium. And for all of the talk of promising to forgive 50k in student loan debt the Democrats just don’t have the votes. Remember the student loan debt forgiveness was supposed to be another thing that buttresses housing values because people will immediately trade one debt category for another according to Sabrina?”
I like how the bears are like, “but student loans” that Millennials have had, literally, for 20 years now. Millennials are out of college! Have been for a few years now (the youngest.) Even oldest GenZ has already graduated.
Lol.
And yet, home sales are the highest in 15 years in Chicago and all around the country.
SOMEONE is buying all of those homes. They’re called Millennials! So, no, student loans aren’t stopping them from living their lives.
SOMEONE is buying that million dollar Roscoe Village house. Someone bought all 3,000 of those condos that sold in Chicago in the last month.
By the way, most universities have fixed the loan situation for undergrads. Heck, Tennessee has made all community college free. Most students don’t graduate with excessive loans on a 4-year degree anymore. It’s competitive out there Bob. Do you have any grandkids who are applying to college?
Maybe it’s because I just did this with my kids and my nieces and nephews, but many schools compete for students now and offer quite attractive aid packages to get the best students. And many students just say “no” to the high priced schools who don’t offer the packages. Thankfully, they have learned that there really isn’t any difference between going to UCLA versus Illinois.
“TUm…you LIVE there.
Shrugs.
This is what happened in 2008-2009. People got “stuck” in properties. Not everyone walked away. They simply lived there longer than they thought. You live your life. It’s not an investment for most folks. They are simply living..”
They’re marketed as a way to live and build equity for the move up.
Yeah its great to be stuck in a place that you lose money on and need to delay starting a family because they listened to some shill telling them things like “Real Estate only goes up”, “Your throwing your money away renting”, etc
Anecdotes don’t matter. Undergrad tuition largely hasn’t been fixed and student loan debt now stands at $1.6 trillion. Sure it doesn’t matter real estate values will continue to climb.
Chicago being a high-cost of living area also doesn’t matter: now that so much work has been virtualized including those office cubicle drones you seem to think are going to maintain lofty real estate valuations means Chicago salaries are now competing with ie: Cincinnati salaries for similar work.
Enjoy the peak of your RE bubble because it truly looks over this time. The Fed just can’t keep on printing now that inflation is here. The jig is up.
Baby boomers are about to find out just taking out a mortgage on a property is not a substitute for a proper retirement fund.
https://www.investopedia.com/student-loan-debt-2019-statistics-and-outlook-4772007
Not sure why some people think that just because they made prudent personal financial decisions in life that everyone else does too. If that were the case we wouldn’t be in so much trouble.
But real estate pricing is set at the margins which means prices are determined by whoever is willing to pay the most, irrespective of whether they can reasonably expect to pay it back. This is because the government subsidizes the lending so its not like going to a bank for a business loan.
To see how disconnected residential real estate prices are from reality just look back to the 1980s to see how hard they crashed when interest rates peaked. A bunch of over-extended, over-leveraged people living on borrowed time it’s the American way. It works 100% of the time until it doesn’t.
“Anecdotes don’t matter. Undergrad tuition largely hasn’t been fixed and student loan debt now stands at $1.6 trillion. Sure it doesn’t matter real estate values will continue to climb…
…Anecdotes don’t matter. Undergrad tuition largely hasn’t been fixed and student loan debt now stands at $1.6 trillion. Sure it doesn’t matter real estate values will continue to climb.”
What I found interesting was this –
“54% – Percentage of college attendees taking on debt, including student loans, to pay for their education”
46% have zero debt. Guessing that the bank of Mom & Dad was the lender that allowed the kids to graduate with no “Debt”. I wonder how many parents Refi’d to fund this? Guessing that there some tie in w/ Boomers not retiring in order to “catch up” wrt retirement
““54% – Percentage of college attendees taking on debt, including student loans, to pay for their education”
46% have zero debt. Guessing that the bank of Mom & Dad was the lender that allowed the kids to graduate with no “Debt”. I wonder how many parents Refi’d to fund this? Guessing that there some tie in w/ Boomers not retiring in order to “catch up” wrt retirement”
Average debt amount is $37,500. That’s almost 20% down on a 200k house.
But with the Federal Reserve not neutral with regard to asset pricing and promoting high asset prices by removing downward price discovery from the market they have also now in effect promoted inter-generational wealth gaps between the haves and have nots.
It’s not just the stock market doing this anymore: it is also the Federal Reserve with money creation. There can never be any adverse consequences for overpaying for real estate in this new world.
“I wonder how many parents Refi’d to fund this? Guessing that there some tie in w/ Boomers not retiring in order to “catch up” wrt retirement””
Boomers?
It’s GenX’s kids in college now. Has been true for several years.
“To see how disconnected residential real estate prices are from reality just look back to the 1980s to see how hard they crashed when interest rates peaked. A bunch of over-extended, over-leveraged people living on borrowed time it’s the American way. It works 100% of the time until it doesn’t.”
But it’s not disconnected. This is where you get it wrong Bob.
1. Someone is buying all of these houses. Nationwide. With the tightest lending standards in a generation.
2. Students have had student loans for 30 years. Ask any GenXer. They had it too, especially for graduate school. Yet somehow, they all bought houses.
3. This isn’t the 1980s. Millennials are getting married much later and therefore mostly buying real estate much later. Additionally, there is the firepower of two incomes now, instead of one.
4. Real estate prices “crashed” in the 1980s? I guess I missed that one. In Chicagoland, prices were flat for about 6 years in the 80s as mortgage rates remained above 10% for that entire decade. But there was no crash in Chicago or the suburbs in the 1980s. The only “crash” that happened during that decade in real estate was in Texas due to the oil bust.
You need a lot of layoffs. You need a recession. And you need inventory to get a “crash.”
“46% have zero debt. Guessing that the bank of Mom & Dad was the lender that allowed the kids to graduate with no “Debt”.”
Who cares? Hasn’t the bank of mom and dad always paid for college? Yes, they have. For many, many students.
But the reality is that 46% have zero debt. If 63% of Americans own homes, then do the math if you’re so worried that those with student loans won’t be able to buy any properties.
They will and they are.
You do know that $37,000 in average debt is the price of the average car today, right? They have a car loan. Do people with car loans not buy houses?
“Chicago being a high-cost of living area also doesn’t matter: now that so much work has been virtualized including those office cubicle drones you seem to think are going to maintain lofty real estate valuations means Chicago salaries are now competing with ie: Cincinnati salaries for similar work.”
No, it means that Chicago is now competing with those San Francisco salaries for similar work. This is why Fulton Market has been booming and Salesforce is building a 60 story tower with its name emblazoned on it.
The companies need the talent. Cincinnati doesn’t have enough talent to make a dent in the Chicago job market. It doesn’t have the engineers, the lawyers or the MBAs. But we DO have those employees to compete with San Francisco, LA, DC and NY.
“They’re marketed as a way to live and build equity for the move up.”
No one has “marketed” starter condos this way since 2008.
Literally, no one.
Starter condos went out a decade+ ago. It was GenXers that bought them and a few oldest Millennials. Bulk of the Millennial generation has been renting. Which is why sales are soaring as they are the largest generation in US history and they are now, finally, buying.
But “starter” 2/2s haven’t been built in 15 years.
They ARE buying condos, but given the Chicago housing market of the last 10 years I don’t think anyone is going into it with the illusion that they are buying to “build equity” and “move up.”
And they are buying real estate AFTER they marry and start families. This is why the boom is happening right now. The biggest bulk of the Millennials are now 28 to 32 which is peak marriage years now.
“Real estate prices “crashed” in the 1980s? I guess I missed that one. In Chicagoland, prices were flat for about 6 years in the 80s as mortgage rates remained above 10% for that entire decade. But there was no crash in Chicago or the suburbs in the 1980s. The only “crash” that happened during that decade in real estate was in Texas due to the oil bust.”
Robert Shiller calculated his index back to at least 1970 and at the national level it shows a substantial decline in home prices during the 80s. However, Chicago was indeed spared.
Everyone needs to get into this decade with where things stand with the Millennials and home buying. This isn’t 2005 anymore.
Things have changed.
“Robert Shiller calculated his index back to at least 1970 and at the national level it shows a substantial decline in home prices during the 80s. However, Chicago was indeed spared.”
Thank you Gary.
And a decline is not a crash. Only two nationwide crashes have happened in the last 100 years: Great Depression and Great Recession housing markets.
Gary, I’m glad you’re here.
I know you won’t have your July data for about another week on your blog, but it feels like the market is finally slowing.
I’ve seen more price cuts and properties staying on the market longer than a few months ago. Also, quite a few properties now falling out of contract (can’t get the appraisal after a bidding war perhaps?)
It feels like we could finally be seeing some seasonality returning to the market with the market slowing heading into fall as families have bought to get the kids into school.
Any data that supports this feeling of mine?
I’ve been extremely busy this weekend, so there won’t be a new property tomorrow morning. I’ll try to get something up by the middle of the day though.
“Any data that supports this feeling of mine?”
The data is just not very good this early in the month – especially when the month ends on a Friday. However, I can already tell you that July sales will be up at least 11% over 2019.
“The companies need the talent. Cincinnati doesn’t have enough talent to make a dent in the Chicago job market. It doesn’t have the engineers, the lawyers or the MBAs. But we DO have those employees to compete with San Francisco, LA, DC and NY.”
I used to work at GE Aircraft Engines. I guess it must be magic keeping those planes aloft given there are no engineers there.
Chicago isn’t competing with SF, LA, DC & NY: Chicago is competing with those places now against lower cost of living places like Cincinnati/Indianapolis/Memphis. You know the non “hip” places that don’t have music festivals where those with collectivist tendencies from the coasts flock to en masse (Nashville, Austin) because they know they don’t fit in most places and never will.
Your anecdotes and generalizations are comically stupid.
“only “crash” that happened during that decade in real estate was in Texas”
Denver is in Texas?
“54% – Percentage of college attendees taking on debt, including student loans, to pay for their education”
If you push thru to the linked cites, that’s “ever” (altho the numbers are a little inconsistent); it’s like 65% of *current* students taking out loans.
Other interesting things, when you go past Investopedia:
“Graduate students borrow 37% of federal student loan dollars”
That leaves the rest for the ~50% of adults who have a 2 or 4 year degree or “some college”.
60% of undergraduate certificate recipients owe an average of $16,940 each in federal loans.
42% of associate’s degree recipients owe an average of $21,890 each in federal loans.
63% of bachelor’s degree holders owe an average of $31,790 in federal loans.
54% of master’s degree holders owe an average of $70,070 in federal loans.
45% of doctoral degree recipients owe an average of $118,360.
71% of professional degree holders owe an average of $199,540.
Presumably, the post-grad degree holders have stacked u-g loan amounts, too. And I’d wager that many of them were on the high side of u-g loan amounts, and basically doubled down on grad school.
It would be interesting to see that data broken up by majors.
“It would be interesting to see that data broken up by majors.”
Undoubtedly that data exists. Would also be interesting to see %age and average amount for “some college, no degree”.
Would also be interesting to know the breakdown in professional degrees, and where MBAs are categorized–and if with Masters, the split bt MBA and all others, and among others the split bt those who dropped PhD programs after masters and those who only intended to get a masters.
“Denver is in Texas?”
That’s an oil town too anon(tfo), which you know very well. Oil crashed in the 80s as did the real estate with it. So sorry I left out tiny Denver when talking about it.
But real estate didn’t “crash” around the country in the 1980s. You’re a fool if you’re saying it did. Real estate is LOCAL.
Oh, and by the way, NO ONE was living in Denver in 1983 so no one cared if it crashed or not.
Lol.
“Chicago is competing with those places now against lower cost of living places like Cincinnati/Indianapolis/Memphis.”
Wrong.
Gosh, Baby Boomers really have a hard time comprehending this housing market (and the job market that goes with it.)
How much are those luxury apartments and condos in Cincinnati? About the same as Chicago.
Job market is 10x bigger. As is entertainment, restaurants etc. No GenZer is saying, “gosh, I’ll work for Google but live in Cincinnati instead of Fulton Market in Chicago.”
Lol.
I think there’s a tremendous opportunity for the secondary cities, especially to attract Baby Boomer retirees and some GenZers who don’t like bigger cities. Many secondary cities are cool. If you want to buy a home, it can be cheaper, especially in the suburbs.
But they simply aren’t competition for a place like Chicago which has thousands of jobs in key industries like food, tech, transportation and finance. Creator economy is in Chicago, it’s not in the secondary cities (if you want to work for one of those companies, that is.)
The competition for tech engineers is so fierce now Bob, having a handful of GE aircraft engineers isn’t going to cut it in recruiting, you know? There are engineers working in Grand Rapids and Springfield Illinois in great jobs. Heck, Rockford is big in tech and engineering now. But if you’re a company looking to hire, you don’t go there. You need to go where the engineering grads are flocking and where you can poach them from elsewhere. Also where the engineering schools are located.
As I’ve said many times, Chicago get ranked in the top 20 globally as a superstar city because of things like number of patents filed and its highly ranked universities.
You all are clueless.
Tell me how many international flights there are from Cincinnati or Indianapolis and compare it with Chicago and get back to me.
“However, I can already tell you that July sales will be up at least 11% over 2019.”
Cool, thanks.
Looks like I’m wrong. It feels like it’s slowing now that school is fast approaching. Or people are just burned out on getting out bid. But maybe not. Lol.
I know several buyers who have taken a step back and have decided to wait until September before trying to buy again. They just got tired of overbidding.
Of course, those sales will eventually happen.
“SOMEONE is buying all of those homes. They’re called Millennials! So, no, student loans aren’t stopping them from living their lives.
“Bulk of the Millennial generation has been renting. Which is why sales are soaring as they are the largest generation in US history and they are now, finally, buying.
“Everyone needs to get into this decade with where things stand with the Millennials and home buying.”
What’s your source for those claims?
Why should anyone believe you instead of wikipedia?
“… demographer William H. Frey … found that, following the Great Recession, American suburbs grew faster than dense urban cores. For example, for every one person who moved to New York City, five moved out to one of its suburbs. Data released by the U.S. Census Bureau in 2017 revealed that Americans aged 25–29 were 25% more likely to move from a city to a suburb than the other way around; for older millennials, that number was 50%. Economic recovery and easily obtained mortgages help explain this phenomenon. Millennial homeowners are more likely to be in the suburbs than the cities. This trend will likely continue as more and more millennials purchase a home. 2019 was the fourth year in a row where the number of millennials living in the major American cities declined measurably.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials#Housing
“But [secondary cities] simply aren’t competition for a place like Chicago which has thousands of jobs in key industries like food, tech, transportation and finance. Creator economy is in Chicago, it’s not in the secondary cities….”
What evidence have you to support your claims?
The WSJ now publishes a quarterly ‘Emerging Housing Markets Index’ to rank “the top [300] metro areas for home buyers seeking an appreciating housing market and appealing lifestyle amenities.”
Their index factors in job growth, wages paid, commute times, local lending conditions and — now they’ve just added — real estate taxes. Here’s their second quarter’s leaderboard:
1 Billings MT
2 Coeur D’Alene
3 Fort Wayne
4 Rapid City
5 Raleigh
6 Portland ME
7 Waco TX
8 Johnson City TN
9 Bangor ME
10 Huntsville
“The average single-family home-sale price in Billings … was $376,248 in June, up 32% from a year earlier.”
A Billings realtor says: “I’ve never seen so much cash in our market.”
Here’s the rank of some other metros:
132 Rockford IL
153 Detroit
205 Flint
270 Chicago-Naperville IL
271 St. Louis MO-IL
272 Des Moines
276 Champaign-Urbana IL
280 Bloomington IL
281 Miami
285 Peoria IL
294 Ocala FL
296 Springfield IL
297 Davenport-Rock Island IL
299 New York-Newark-Jersey City
300 Odessa TX
https://www.wsj.com/articles/montana-boomtown-jumps-to-no-1-on-wsj-realtor-com-housing-market-index-11626773400
In the inaugural April ranking Chicago ranked 227:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/emerging-housing-markets-index-wsj-realtor-com-11619483158
So, Chicago has fallen to 270, perhaps due to the WSJ’s algo now factoring in property taxes.
Ranking 270 out of 300 metros, Chicago can’t possibly move any lower, can it?
“Job market is 10x bigger. As is entertainment, restaurants etc. No GenZer is saying, “gosh, I’ll work for Google but live in Cincinnati instead of Fulton Market in Chicago.”
You are correct, Genz’ers arent saying that because they want to be in Nashville, NY/NJ, Miami, etc – not Chicago. Yeah maybe some kid from BFE Iowa has their heart set on Chicago but from outside of the Midewest, Chicago isnt on the radar
“You’re a fool if you’re saying it did.”
As much of a fool as someone saying it ONLY crashed in Texas?
ps: I never suggested that it did crash nationwide. You can look it up.
pps: Flat nominal values when CPI is doubling = halving in real terms. Not that that happened, either, but still; a halving = crash, imo.
ppps: The 80s pretty much kicked off the embiggening of the American house, see, eg: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-us-homes-today-are-1000-square-feet-larger-than-in-1973-and-living-space-per-person-has-nearly-doubled/ which makes nominal price comparisons even harder. Check out the chart on the inflation-adjusted PPSF–pretty darn flat for 45 years, much very much lined up with booms and stagnant periods.
“Why should anyone believe you instead of wikipedia?”
Why should anyone believe wikipedia instead of the homeless guy at the computer in the library?
For all we know the homeless guy and Sabrina are battling over the edits.
But Frey *has* been all over this.
“an appreciating housing market and appealing lifestyle amenities”
…
“#3 Fort Wayne”
I’ll admit to never having spent time in Fort Wayne, so perhaps I’ve missed out on a true gem, but … what’re the appealing lifestyle amenities of FW and NE Indiana, generally??
280 Bloomington IL
281 Miami
285 Peoria IL
That’s some lofty company for one of the cities we can all recognize *is* drawing a lot of younger people (and NYC-leavers, generally).
“I’ll admit to never having spent time in Fort Wayne, so perhaps I’ve missed out on a true gem, but … what’re the appealing lifestyle amenities of FW and NE Indiana, generally??”
Ft Wayne Famous Coney?
Big/Small town (Minor league Baseball & Hockey), fair amount of taprooms for a town its size, if invaded there’s a squadron of A-10s, GM Pick-up plant, relatively close to Chicago & Indy
“Big/Small town (Minor league Baseball & Hockey), fair amount of taprooms for a town its size, if invaded there’s a squadron of A-10s, GM Pick-up plant, relatively close to Chicago & Indy”
Sooo–forecasted for huge appreciation in the housing market, I guess?
Found this one:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/436-W-Brackenridge-St-Fort-Wayne-IN-46802/251684034_zpid/
Obviously just an ask price, but: really?? [yes, it’s far from typical; typical appears to be = ~$200 psf for upscale and/or new; ~$125 psf for nice slightly older homes; totally livable older homes under $100 psf]
“Job market is 10x bigger. ”
The job market is increasingly placeless especially the longer this pandemic drags on.
There is fiber everywhere now you can have a 4k video stream of your room with all of your coworkers.
You still haven’t seemed to grasp that this pandemic is going to change the way work is done: trends that were already well underway have been hugely accelerated.
So now companies that “get” the placeless workplace can hire talent anywhere. Preferably same time zone for team cohesion but let that sink in.
Legacy high-tax and spend cities like Chicago/NYC are in deep shit in this new world. Companies aren’t going to want to pay the higher salaries these places demand because they no longer have to now that so much more work is now placeless.
Those drones needed for the F500 can be anywhere: there is no reason they need to be here. And if they are in lower cost of living areas they can be paid less. Let that sink in.
“Legacy high-tax and spend cities like Chicago/NYC are in deep shit in this new world. Companies aren’t going to want to pay the higher salaries these places demand because they no longer have to now that so much more work is now placeless.”
While I agree with you in theory, I think you’re jumping the gun a little bit. Just focusing on Chicago – we have quite a few fortune 1000 companies here, along with major professional services firms. And that generates a lot of money….
We can talk about a placeless future when Jenner & Block leaves, along with Allstate, Kraft, Discovery, and countless other major companies pack up and go.
The problem with Chicago (other than its congestion) is the government. The City Clerk says ‘this person got the most votes’, and we just all kind of accept that as true, and yet the residents keep electing the worst people. And they do everything they can to destroy the place.
And because the city is so poorly run, it attracts criminals and progressives (but I repeat myself), reprobates along with a host of other soulless amoral professional types, and the servant class below them to run the day to day operations.
Fixing the government would go a long way towards fixing Chicago’s negative image. Say what you want about Rudy Giuliani but the man did single-handed transform NYC from a crack war city with a seedy times square into one of the world’s safest urban playgrounds. NYC went from the urban grime of ‘French Connection’ in the 1970’s to Sex in the City less than a generation later. Chicago a great, but less remarkable move in the same gentrification direction, but degentrification is quickly reclaiming what once belonged to it as crime goes out of control (90 shots fired on Oak St this past weekend?)
With continued bad governance, and people like anon(tfo) who thinks the adverse political party is the devil incarnate that wants to keep children in cages, nothing will ever change. The residents of the city believe that they are the solution to the problems with out the self-realization that their misguided beliefs and their voting patterns ARE the problem. And there’s no easy fix to that absent a once in a lifetime Rudy Giuliani in his prime.
“Their index factors in job growth, wages paid, commute times, local lending conditions and — now they’ve just added — real estate taxes. Here’s their second quarter’s leaderboard:
A little bit of money goes a long way in a small town. A few dozen Californians or Long Islanders moving to Rapid City SD can upend a market in a short period of time.
The reality is that this is all part of the balkanization of American into Red and Blue areas as people with similar thinking move to areas with like minded folks because being of the losing political party in a one party state admitted sucks really bad.
They keep blaming the pandemic and covid for people moving, but that was just the impetus. The underlying factor is that conservatives are mostly leaving blue states for red areas and making them even more red and the pandemic just hastened the move.
“They keep blaming the pandemic and covid for people moving, but that was just the impetus. The underlying factor is that conservatives are mostly leaving blue states for red areas and making them even more red and the pandemic just hastened the move.”
Huh?
Trends have shown that all those northerners in blue states have been moving to places like Arizona, Texas, Georgia and Florida. They are already purple, or light blue.
What blue or purple states are conservatives moving to that are making those states go red?
“We can talk about a placeless future when Jenner & Block leaves, along with Allstate, Kraft, Discovery, and countless other major companies pack up and go.”
Correct. But Chicago just keeps attracting more companies.
You see, the older companies want to be around the younger ones. There’s energy, innovation and creativity. And outside of California, NYC and Boston, Chicago is next in line for VC money now.
Chicago has two billion dollar unicorns right now. More in the pipeline.
And Chicago has the third largest cannabis industry, also due to the availability of money and agriculture expertise. Chicago will be the leader in cannabis by the time it gets federally legalized.
“The job market is increasingly placeless especially the longer this pandemic drags on.”
Wrong. Talent goes where the money is. And talent wants to be around other talent.
There’s a reason cities have always won throughout all of history. Through every plague, war and disaster. Humans keep returning to the cities. Over and over and over again.
“Legacy high-tax and spend cities like Chicago/NYC are in deep shit in this new world.”
Nah.
As the real estate patterns in both Chicago and NYC show, the buyers are coming back to the core because the city is still the place to be.
“Those drones needed for the F500 can be anywhere: there is no reason they need to be here. And if they are in lower cost of living areas they can be paid less. Let that sink in.”
This was always the point of Amazon HQ2.
And why Google has about 20 HQ2s.
And why Facebook opened up such a huge office in Chicago.
Labor is cheaper. Why not save money by putting a bunch of Amazon workers in Nashville?
Yawn.
But that has already been done. If you are talented enough to work in Google’s San Francisco office and decide to move to Cincinnati, you are going to still command the high salary. They won’t save on the employee who decides to move to Raleigh. They will save on being able to hire the employee who is already IN Raleigh working for someone else, at the lower salary.
But that has already been happening for several years. The city still has to have the talent though.
“What’s your source for those claims?”
Every single home builder and housing economist.
I don’t have time to educate you. Please google it.
“Peak” Millennial age is now 29 to 33 (the largest group of Millennials is in that age group.) Average age for women to marry is now 28. For men it is 30. They are now marrying. Will be starting a family shortly.
That leaves this housing boom another 3 to 4 years at this level of hotness.
Demographics rule the world, by the way.
The pandemic isn’t even a factor, actually. It has just added to the craziness as the Baby Boomers are retiring earlier and wanting to move too.
But it was always going to be a hot housing market, nationally, in 2020 to 2024 due to demographics.
It’s amazing how much gaslighting is going on on this site at the same time that Chicago’s housing market is seeing its best sales in 15 years.
It must be exhausting to try and argue that Chicago is doomed with it so obviously not.
“With continued bad governance, and people like anon(tfo) who thinks the adverse political party is the devil incarnate that wants to keep children in cages, nothing will ever change. The residents of the city believe that they are the solution to the problems with out the self-realization that their misguided beliefs and their voting patterns ARE the problem. And there’s no easy fix to that absent a once in a lifetime Rudy Giuliani in his prime.”
Some are starting to wake up. I have a friend who coincidentally is a Realtor who lives in River North trying to raise a child and he is getting fed up with the BS in his neighborhood. Even the other day posted about a gummy weed package that was so obviously targeted at children. He is suburbs bound undoubtedly he just hasn’t caved yet.
And there are more quality of life detriments coming to downtown with the casino and all of the accompanying vice that will bring. Prostitution is already de-facto legal in NYC and progressive women like to talk a big talk but they don’t like any competition for what they see as their biggest tradeable asset: their purty pink p-tang.
That level of vice they WILL NOT tolerate and it is coming to downtown Chicago in the years ahead just like it was in the bygone eras of yore. Of course it already happens here with the Asian massage places but that’s not to street walker level of obviousness when it can no longer be ignored especially near downtown.
Progressive ideology dies when people actually have to have skin in the game regarding their voting habits. And one of the more reliably blue voting blocs the white women raised in the suburbs who watch CNN/MSNBC will not be able to keep voting D while holding their nose in the years ahead you wait and see. At some point practical realities outweigh one’s consideration/worry of potentially needing an on-demand abortion after a night of fun with Chad.
The Illinois general assembly was one step short of basically decreeing that lacking vehicle tags or insurance can no longer result in a suspended license.
Wait until they add that next for your broken window theory.
Can’t or don’t want to pay your $150 plate fee? Don’t.
Can’t or don’t want to carry state mandated insurance? Don’t.
Under broken windows framework these two things needn’t happen simultaneously. They’ll make the expired tag a license un-suspendable offense first more than likely as a weather balloon test.
https://www.bnd.com/news/politics-government/article239403843.html
“ Found this one:
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/436-W-Brackenridge-St-Fort-Wayne-IN-46802/251684034_zpid/
Obviously just an ask price, but: really?? [yes, it’s far from typical; typical appears to be = ~$200 psf for upscale and/or new; ~$125 psf for nice slightly older homes; totally livable older homes under $100 psf]”
Does that qualify as Luxury?
Say what you want about Rudy Giuliani but the man did single-handed transform NYC from a crack war city with a seedy times square into one of the world’s safest urban playgrounds. NYC went from the urban grime of ‘French Connection’ in the 1970’s to Sex in the City less than a generation later.
The largest percentage decrease in crime in NYC was the last year of Dinkin’s administration. So, no.
Regarding Work from Home / Work from Anywhere, my current client is a large regional company, which is now dealing with a raft of people working remotely (or hybrid). They are already talking about restricting people from working in certain states because it’s expensive to have “operations” in multiple states. Even without the real estate costs, there are still licensing requirements, UI, insurance, taxes, etc. If you don’t work for a national/global company, your options might be limited.
And one of the more reliably blue voting blocs the white women raised in the suburbs who watch CNN/MSNBC will not be able to keep voting D while holding their nose in the years ahead you wait and see.
Conservatives have been saying this for 30+ years now. Maybe this time they’re right; maybe not.
“There’s a reason cities have always won throughout all of history. Through every plague, war and disaster. Humans keep returning to the cities. Over and over and over again.”
I’ve lived in a lot of places and I’ve always preferred the smaller cities to the massive, bloated urban areas. For decades I’ve thought it didn’t make sense for companies to locate in those places. I’ve also always believed that there is a dis-economy of scale beyond a certain size – maintaining the infrastructure and building new stuff just gets too expensive, not to mention that the competing political interests ultimately destroy the ability to govern.
I feel partially vindicated in my views with people moving away from cities to more suburban environments. It’s no coincidence that the WSJ list has a bunch of small towns at the top of the list. The counterpoint to that narrative however is the companies that still assert (perhaps legitimately) that they can’t properly function, can’t maintain the proper corporate culture with a distributed workforce. So now we have a tug of war with workers wanting to be scattered but their employers wanting them centralized. Hard to predict where this ends but I have to believe that more startups will accommodate what workers want and that eventually the world will become more rational as I see it.
“people like anon(tfo) who thinks the adverse political party is the devil incarnate that wants to keep children in cages”
God you’re tiresome. When the fuck have I said word one about children in cages? Here, or anywhere else?
When are you leaving the state again?
Are you really that brainwashed?
I mean, I’m just asking questions here.
“What blue or purple states are conservatives moving to that are making those states go red?”
You misread that.
The position is that the “conservatives” are moving out of blue states into deep red states, making them redder.
That may be true, but I’ve yet to see any data (no, even 100 articles with 300 interviewees is still anecdata–300 people doesn’t move the needle even in Wyoming) supporting it.
“Does that qualify as Luxury?”
I heard somewhere that $800k is the threshold for luxury, so: No.
“I heard somewhere that $800k is the threshold for luxury, so: No.”
But the land value is less in FTW Vs Chicago. Probably would be <$1MM in chicago, no?
“Probably would be <$1MM in chicago, no?"
Your gator is chumping the wrong number.
In case we're not just f'ing around:
I think it depends on the location–is across the street from the ballpark in FW the equivalent of (say) Morgan and Fulton?
I'd say this one is a fair bit nicer (I don't like the location, but it's not "bad"), and asking $925k:
https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/739-W-15th-St-60607/unit-13/home/108631764
Luxury is nothing more than lumber, drywall and particle board with a veneer of level B granite and stainless steel and subway tile.
True luxury of the past required highly skilled artisans who would craft homes with individual touches that could not be mass replicated. The days of the master craftsman are over and have been replaced with cheap labor streaming in over the border.
” Say what you want about Rudy Giuliani but the man did single-handed transform NYC from a crack war city with a seedy times square into one of the world’s safest urban playgrounds. NYC went from the urban grime of ‘French Connection’ in the 1970’s to Sex in the City less than a generation later.
The largest percentage decrease in crime in NYC was the last year of Dinkin’s administration. So, no.”
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/headlines-breaking-stories/195374/mayor-dinkins-claims-crime-started-to-go-down-during-his-administration.html
*Mayor Dinkins Claims Crime Started To Go Down During His Administration*
* * * * * *
“To be fair, Mr. Dinkins claim that crime started to go down during his administration may be accurate. Though, truth must be said, crime was still extremely high when he left office in 1993. According to the NYPD’s Compstat, there were 1,927 murders, in NYC, in 1993 compared to 2,262 in 1990. Nonetheless, after 5 years of Rudy Giuliani as mayor, only 629 murder were reported in 1998. Robbery also dropped from 100,280 in 10990 and 85,892 when Mr. Dinkins left office, to 39,003 in 1998 and 27,873 when Mr. Giuliani left office.
“True luxury of the past required highly skilled artisans who would craft homes with individual touches that could not be mass replicated. The days of the master craftsman are over and have been replaced with cheap labor streaming in over the border.”
Wait a minute, weren’t the mansions of the past just built with…immigrant labor of the past?
Lol.
I’m pretty sure that was the case. Yeah- they came from Germany or Poland in 1880 but it was just immigrants with home building skills. And yes, I agree they were highly skilled artisans. But worldwide, the “trades” have mostly fallen away.
There’s actually a school in Charleston that teaches how to do renovation of old buildings and teaches some of the lost trades. So it’s not totally dead yet.
“The position is that the “conservatives” are moving out of blue states into deep red states, making them redder.”
It’s only going to help the red states, then, because they are usually under performing and could use the talent.
“Hard to predict where this ends but I have to believe that more startups will accommodate what workers want and that eventually the world will become more rational as I see it.”
Professional offices haven’t even reopened so, really, no one knows anything.
We won’t know anything for a few years. But all those college students who are going to work for corporate America are unlikely going to be saying, “I’ll go live in Memphis instead of Chicago when I start my job at Boeing.”
They WANT to be around other people. They WANT to learn to know their work colleagues. They WANT to go to baseball games with the “team” after work.
The old people on this blog discount the social benefits of the professional office setting. They’ve been in the game 20, 30 or 40 years and don’t see the point of it anymore.
But my kids would literally die working from home for the next 40 years. They are in their early 20s and just starting out. They can’t wait to get back into the office. Even during the pandemic, they were meeting up with work colleagues for drinks (outside, of course.)
But Chicago isn’t San Francisco or New York with those outrageous rents. You can live a good life here on a middle class salary. You may have roommates, but the apartment is still pretty nice.
“It’s only going to help the red states, then, because they are usually under performing and could use the talent.”
Or, put another way, Red States tend to have less income inequality and income disparities, because Blue State utopias like California have higher rates of poverty and near poverty than most red states.
“Or, put another way, Red States tend to have less income inequality and income disparities, because Blue State utopias like California have higher rates of poverty and near poverty than most red states.”
Yikes.
The denial is strong in this one.
Red states are the poorest in the country, Homedelete. You KNOW this. Most have the worst schools in the country as well. Perhaps all the conservatives moving from blue states who are used to having great schools will improve those where they move. I hope this happens.
Mississippi and Alabama could really use the talent, and money, from the blue states.
https://www.ppic.org/publication/income-inequality-in-california/
”
Income Inequality in California
The gap between rich and poor is especially wide in California.
While California’s economy outperforms the nation’s, its level of income inequality exceeds that of all but five states. Families at the top of the income distribution in California have 12.3 times the income of families at the bottom ($262,000 versus $21,000, for the 90th and 10th percentiles, respectively, in 2018), measured before taxes and safety net programs. The disparity is present throughout the state. “
To be fair, Mr. Dinkins claim that crime started to go down during his administration may be accurate.
Nice opinion article. Crime rates in NYC started dropping in 1990, 4 years before Rudy G became mayor, according to the NYPD and DOJ:
https://web.archive.org/web/20090215053748/http://www.istat.it/istat/eventi/2003/perunasocieta/relazioni/Langan_rel.pdf
(wayback machine is the only non-paid version I can find of this study online)
Research Summary: According to NYPD statistics, crime in New York City took a downturn starting around 1990 that continued for many years, shattering all the city’s old records for consecutive year declines in crime rates. To verify the declines, this study obtained New York City crime data from sources independent of the NYPD, principally the National Crime Victimization Survey. Independent data largely corroborate the NYPD statistics.
“We won’t know anything for a few years. But all those college students who are going to work for corporate America are unlikely going to be saying, “I’ll go live in Memphis instead of Chicago when I start my job at Boeing.”
Why do you go full retard? You’re correct that they probably dont want to go to Memphis, but Austin, Miami & N’ville are all high on their list (Higher than Chicago anyways)
“level of income inequality exceeds that of all but five states”
What are the other 5 states??
I gthooi, but didn’t find the raw data to do the comparison. I did find top 1% and median HHI, which is itself interesting.
5 lowest ratios of 1% to median (median HHI rank; 1=highest):
46. Indiana (28) (1% is ~5.4x median)
47. Wyoming (33)
48. Alaska (11)
49. Hawaii (2)
50. Maine (29) (1% is 5x median)
5 highest ratios (median HHI rank; 1=highest):
5. New York (20) (1% is ~8.7x median)
4. Oregon (15)
3. Kentucky (45)
2. Louisiana (49)
1. Florida (41) (1% is ~9.4x median)
“Austin, Miami & N’ville”
Don’t forget Fort Wayne!
So, I went and found the full methodology, not behind a paywall, here:
https://www.realtor.com/research/july-2021-wsj-rdc-emerging-housing-markets-index/
The ranking evaluates the 300 most populous core-based statistical areas, as measured by the U.S. Census Bureau, and defined by March 2020 delineation standards for eight indicators across two broad categories: real estate market (50%) and economic health & quality of life (50%). Each market is ranked on a scale of 0 to 100 according to the category indicators, and the overall index is based on the weighted sum of these rankings. The real estate market category indicators are:
real estate demand (16.6%), based on average unique viewers per property;
real estate supply (16.6%), based on median days on market for real estate listings,
median listing price trend (16.6%).
The economic and quality of life category indicators are:
unemployment (6.25%);
wages (6.251%);
regional price parities (6.25%);
the share of foreign born (6.25%);
small businesses (6.25%);
amenities (6.25%), measured as per capita “everyday splurge” stores in an area;
commute (6.25%); and
estimated effective real estate taxes (6.25%).
Seems about right for something generated by the geniuses in the realtor(tm) forecasting/marketing group.
“average unique viewers”??? WTAF??
How would the rankings change if they added some indice of crime to their algo, like, ‘violent crimes per 100,000k’?
I wish Case-Shiller and the CPI were better too.
“in both Chicago and NYC … the buyers are coming back to the core because the city is still the place to be.”
The WSJ reports in “The Pandemic Changed Where Americans Live” (4/27/21):
“Big cities including New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Boston saw hundreds of thousands more residents move out than in…”
And, what’s esp. concerning:
“[A Fed study] found that in earlier years, the net migration out of urban neighborhoods involved more people from neighborhoods with below-median income than from neighborhoods with above-median income. That reversed in 2020, with wealthier neighborhoods seeing the biggest losses from migration.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pandemic-supercharged-changes-in-where-americans-live-11619536399
Contra:
“in both Chicago and NYC … the buyers are coming back to the core because the city is still the place to be”
the WSJ asserts:
“Residents in recent years have been leaving big cities and moving to suburbs or smaller metro areas. The pandemic supercharged that phenomenon.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/americans-up-and-moved-during-the-pandemic-heres-where-they-went-11620734566
The above article also provides an interactive tool enabling one to see county-level in/out migration levels.
“in both Chicago and NYC … the buyers are coming back to the core because the city is still the place to be.”
Mark Glennon, drawing on USPS change-of-address data (like the WSJ), concludes that among major US cities:
“Chicago … was third worst in terms of the simple net of moves in and out.”
“Chicago has the distinction of being the only city among those to suffer a drop in both people moving in and an increase in people moving out. That is, in other cities, a big increase in people leaving drove the net losses, though they still had small increases in people moving in. But Chicago stood alone, worsening by both counts.”
https://wirepoints.org/more-data-and-opinion-on-the-exodus-from-chicago-and-other-big-cities-wirepoints/
“But my kids would literally die working from home for the next 40 years. They are in their early 20s and just starting out. They can’t wait to get back into the office. Even during the pandemic, they were meeting up with work colleagues for drinks (outside, of course.)”
Please don’t make me go back to the office. I can’t go back to commuting. It was soul crushing. I don’t want to wear uncomfortable clothes again. I can’t go back to listening to coworkers chit chatting or tedious elevator rides with an excessive number of people. I like that I have the freedom to live in other parts of the city now. Moving to the suburbs is a real option for the first time.
As long as the red states continue to be religious regimes, I am staying here in Illinois.
“As long as the red states continue to be religious regimes, I am staying here in Illinois.”
C’mon Jenny the ideological collectivists that cannot stand the right are also flocking to Nashville, TN & Austin, TX en masse. So there are toe holds in red areas where you can assume you won’t be bullied by the locals, but you will pay dearly in traffic from lack of sufficient infrastructure as basically everyone from the northeast corridor flocks to these places because they have turned the northeast corridor into a wasteland to try to raise a family, high taxes & dearth of economic opportunity.
You can tell how vacuous and left-leaning a place is by how hip it’s new music festivals are that vacuous instagram addicts flock to for those pics.
“But my kids would literally die working from home for the next 40 years. They are in their early 20s and just starting out. They can’t wait to get back into the office. Even during the pandemic, they were meeting up with work colleagues for drinks (outside, of course.)”
Young people can still meet for drinks and go to games and whatever even if they’re WFH, or mostly WFH. With WFH, the 1-2 hours a day they get to keep instead of communting can be used for such activities, or for exercising, or whatever.
I just spent 7 days in a 120+ lawyer office in Chicago (my first time in any office since end of Feb 2020). Not many people coming in there at all. On one of the days, there was an associate breakfast and a partner lunch, both of which seemed to have roughly 50% attendance rates. The gist I got was that the associates (i.e., the young people) eager to return to pre-pandemic office attenance are a tiny minority. I don’t think that’s sustainable longterm (but I think other industries less so), but things are going to take longer than expected, and only the most optimistic office landlords and commercial brokers believe that there’s ever going to be a return to all-year M-F office attendance.
“and only the most optimistic office landlords and commercial brokers believe that there’s ever going to be a return to all-year M-F office attendance.”
I can’t speak for cities other than Chicago (and I was downtown this week again too for work) but Chicago has clearly outgrown its size for its layout, and funneling 1,000,000+ people every day into and out of the loop between 9 am and 5 pm five day a week, via plane, train and automobile is a commuting nightmare. We all just accepted that it took 50 minutes round trip to make that 10-20 mile commute downtown never realizing that same commute in many other cities (SF, LA, NY, and a few others excluded) is much, much faster. One can live in the exurbs of Milwaukee and still park downtown in less than 30 minutes.
SF and NY have its own commuting problems, and now with coronavirus (And remote working) those cities have reverted into Dirty Harry/French Connection atmospheres that most commuters are too young to remember and certainly don’t like any of when they get a taste of it.
That’s why I’m so down on Chicago….the poor governance combined with the long commutes for anyone not within a few el stops from downtown is no longer acceptable for many in a post-covid world. People feel like they’ve gotten their lives back, they can be home for dinner with the kids, get a work out in, run an errand, take a vacation day off here and there; and to force people to return to the office, to the cubes, or GOD FORBID the open air office concepts (masks mandatory!!!) is quite literally causing a worker revolt.
“That’s why I’m so down on Chicago….the poor governance combined with the long commutes for anyone not within a few el stops from downtown is no longer acceptable for many in a post-covid world. People feel like they’ve gotten their lives back, they can be home for dinner with the kids, get a work out in, run an errand, take a vacation day off here and there; and to force people to return to the office, to the cubes, or GOD FORBID the open air office concepts (masks mandatory!!!) is quite literally causing a worker revolt.”
I don’t disagree HD.
If you were commuting on the train every day for 20 years from Geneva, St. Charles, Highland Park or Olympia Fields, you realized during the pandemic that there is more to life than doing that every day.
The quality of your life got better.
Most companies are likely going to go with the hybrid model which McDonald’s was already doing pre-pandemic and which was working just fine. They were doing 3 days in, 2 days out. Some will go with 2 days in, 3 days out.
People will continue to live in the city to shorten commutes.
There’s no indication that Millennials and GenZers don’t want to live in the city.
The apartments keep renting. Every new apartment building is selling out within 6 months or less.
“The economic and quality of life category indicators are:”
FWIW…in my own case, given my age, I won’t even consider a place that doesn’t have a major hospital that ranks for several major specialties such as cancer and cardiology within a one hour drive. One thing about Chicago is that I can get the best medical care in the country for just about any problem I develop. For example, people come here from all over the country to get their hips and knees replaced at Rush.
And it’s not just about surgery or acute care. You need to have smart doctors – the kind that teach in medical schools. A dumb doctor will kill you.
That kinda rules out all those small towns out in the middle of Montanna.
Speaking of which…no snow or susceptibility to apocalyptic natural disasters either. They left that out of their rankings.
“Young people can still meet for drinks and go to games and whatever even if they’re WFH, or mostly WFH. With WFH, the 1-2 hours a day they get to keep instead of communting can be used for such activities, or for exercising, or whatever.”
Yeah- that’s what I said. They’re doing it right now and they hate it.
But how do you become friends with any co-workers if you are NEVER in the office? You do not.
Friendships are made over lunch, gossiping in the hallways, talking to someone in the bathroom, rolling eyes at each other during a boring team meeting. You need to have common suffering. Working from home gives you none of that.
“So there are toe holds in red areas where you can assume you won’t be bullied by the locals”
It’s not the locals that are the worry. It’s the statewide policies.
“Chicago … was third worst in terms of the simple net of moves in and out.”
Yet somehow all the apartment buildings are leasing back up.
Go figure.
Whatever exodus there was, already ended months ago.
This new apartment tower in the Loop is already 98% rented and only started leasing in February.
They can’t sell the 24 condos, however. Lol. They are now converting those to apartments too. Starting at $9,000 for 3-bedroom units.
“The mixed residential building was launched in February with 189 apartments, which the developer says is 98 percent rented. But condo sales launched almost a year before the start of leasing and not a single sale has been recorded, according to Crain’s.”
https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2021/08/03/parkline-cuts-condos-after-zero-sales/
“Residents in recent years have been leaving big cities and moving to suburbs or smaller metro areas. The pandemic supercharged that phenomenon.”
This doesn’t line up in Chicago wojo.
1. We wouldn’t have 15 year high in sales for the last year if this was true.
2. We wouldn’t have record low inventory.
3. We wouldn’t have such a quick rebound in the apartment market.
Whomever left was replaced by someone else.
“Why do you go full retard? You’re correct that they probably dont want to go to Memphis, but Austin, Miami & N’ville are all high on their list (Higher than Chicago anyways)”
Memphis was on Bob’s list.
But you don’t understand what we’re talking about here JohnnyU. I’m not saying that young people don’t want to move to Nashville.
Bob’s scenario was that they would take a job in Chicago and because of work-from-home, would now move to a secondary city and work from there because it’s cheaper. So if they got a new job at Boeing, and if Boeing allows them to now work-from-home permanently, they would simply decide to up and move to some secondary city instead of staying in Chicago.
That’s bullshit. It’s never going to happen like that.
Young people taking a job in Chicago are taking it because they WANT to live there. Same with San Francisco. Same with Atlanta, etc.
Parkline should never have been condos. Lot is too small for great amenities and the only “good” view is from the southeast corner. Otherwise, you look into neighboring buildings or idiots launched fireworks off the garage across the street.
Extend & pretend continues with the foreclosure moratorium again extended by the Biden administration. But we all know this can’t go on forever.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-eviction-ban-has-to-end-sometime-tenants-landlords-joe-biden-nancy-pelosi-11628029263?mod=hp_opin_pos_2
There is no such thing as a real housing market right now given the massive government and illegal continued government intervention preventing evictions from occurring. The current pricing and volume data points mean nothing in the context of what is happening and aren’t at all comparable to prior data points.
Extend & pretend ad infinitum. Winter is coming.
They extended the eviction moratorium but not the foreclosure moratorium, right? So they can start the foreclosure process. Hell, it takes 3 years anyway.
“Friendships are made over lunch, gossiping in the hallways, talking to someone in the bathroom, rolling eyes at each other during a boring team meeting. You need to have common suffering. Working from home gives you none of that.”
People make friends and meet partners from relationships that start online all the time. People can play sports, find a hobby, or volunteer to make friends. I don’t want to go work in an office and suffer so that the younger generation can go make friends.
I don’t want to use shared bathrooms, sit in needless meetings, gossip, or waste time eating lunch when I could be getting work done. I’m there to work, not put up with this bullshit.
I worked in offices within 2 miles of my house and even just getting ready in the morning used up time. Then, I’d either walk or drive. Door-to-door driving took about 20 minutes because of heavy traffic and the time it took to park. I was always looking at the clock when I was in the office and calculating how long it would take to get home so that I could walk the dog. Alternatively, I could get a dog walker, but that’s hundreds of dollars each month. It felt like getting a raise when we went remote. Now, I can take breaks (like the one I’m taking now) and then work a little later. I feel so much more mentally healthy this way.
“There’s no indication that Millennials and GenZers don’t want to live in the city.”
I think the question becomes where in the city. Why pay $2K+ to live in a studio or one bedroom in River North, South Loop, Gold Coast, and West Loop if you only go to the office 3 times a week when you can pay $1500 – $2K on a one bedroom in Logan Square, LakeView, Lincoln Park, Roscoe Village etc.
The demand factor of where in the city is likely to change.
“They extended the eviction moratorium but not the foreclosure moratorium, right?”
Correct. I think the administration wants to/will make some rule changes for Banks and Servicers to work with people coming out of forbearance that still can’t pay so they aren’t foreclosed upon (mainly around Freddie/Fannie backed loans). I would think Biden still remembers how bad the administration did on this in the GFC aftermath.
“So they can start the foreclosure process. Hell, it takes 3 years anyway.”
Most of the homeowners coming out of forbearance that still can’t pay should have some equity in the homes this time around. Most will likely be forced to sell which will be a quicker process than foreclosure.
I made the prediction back in December that the housing market will start to slow in the 2H of 2021. Crains reporting today that the past 4 weeks of purchases closed (July) were lower than last year.
“On four indicators, the Chicago-area housing market has simmered down in the past month, according to a report released Aug. 2 by Midwest Real Estate Data.”
“Two indicators—the number of home purchases closed and the number of new listings put on the market—have both run below last year’s figures for four consecutive weeks. On two other indicators, the increase from a year ago has narrowed. They are the number of homes going under contract to a buyer and the increase in the median purchase price compared to a year earlier.”
“As one example: The median price of homes sold in the Chicago area in the week that ended Aug. 2 was $290,000, according to MRED. That’s up 10.7 percent from a year earlier. It’s a robust increase, but it’s the smallest in a string of 47 weeks when each week the median sale price was up by double digits from the same time a year earlier.”
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/residential-real-estate/after-reaching-full-boil-housing-market-cools-down-summer-simmer
“Memphis was on Bob’s list.
But you don’t understand what we’re talking about here JohnnyU. I’m not saying that young people don’t want to move to Nashville.
Bob’s scenario was that they would take a job in Chicago and because of work-from-home, would now move to a secondary city and work from there because it’s cheaper. So if they got a new job at Boeing, and if Boeing allows them to now work-from-home permanently, they would simply decide to up and move to some secondary city instead of staying in Chicago.
That’s bullshit. It’s never going to happen like that.”
Except you know, its happening right now. Talking to recent graduates not from Illinois, Chicago isnt on their radar. Most of these kids want to be in Nashville, Austin, NY, Miami. I think if you offered 100 random college graduates the ability to WFH and they could pick either Nashville or Chicago 85% would take Nashville
Theres only 2 US cities with a permanent draw for people – NY & LA (Possibly SV). Chicago isnt in that group. I dont think anyone knows what city will become the next Nashville in 10 years, but its not going to be Chicago w/o some major structural changes. These new communities are going to bleed old cities like Chicago, Philly, etc dry
Your attitude is like a Sears executive 30 years ago – got the world by the balls and cant/dont want to see the competition
“Friendships are made over lunch, gossiping in the hallways, talking to someone in the bathroom, rolling eyes at each other during a boring team meeting. You need to have common suffering. Working from home gives you none of that.”
OK Boomer
“People make friends and meet partners from relationships that start online all the time. People can play sports, find a hobby, or volunteer to make friends. I don’t want to go work in an office and suffer so that the younger generation can go make friends.”
This
You’ve got an entire generation thats entire life revolves around being online. They dont need a workplace to meet people
Hell they rather use Slack than get up, walk 20 feet and actually talk to someone
“I can’t speak for cities other than Chicago”
“those cities have reverted”
If you can’t speak for other cities, why do you keep doing it??
“Winter is coming.”
And it will be defeated by a little girl with a knife.
Having recently spent a few days in Nashville I don’t understand the appeal to young people. Unless it has a reputation of being a party town, which I sorta picked up on a little bit?
“Crains reporting today that the past 4 weeks of purchases closed (July) were lower than last year.”
That’s for the Chicago area. Chicago was ahead of last July and July 2019. I’ll post my update on Monday.
“They extended the eviction moratorium but not the foreclosure moratorium, right? So they can start the foreclosure process. Hell, it takes 3 years anyway.”
Foreclosures can take longer than usual because landlords facing foreclosure appear to have obvious standing for a suit against the US government/CDC for damages from the eviction moratorium and those cases would need to be litigated prior to the foreclosure ones. Just the 50k top-down view from high-altitude it appears obvious they have a good case just from the timing along with regard to only one category being extended and not the other.
We need to make private property rights great again.
“Having recently spent a few days in Nashville I don’t understand the appeal to young people. Unless it has a reputation of being a party town, which I sorta picked up on a little bit?”
It’s the south but since they all move there en masse they can surround themselves with the same garbage people with the same garbage paradigm from the places they emigrated from (mostly NE corridor) and with the same garbage voting habits. And whatever features make it a great place to raise a family due to quality of life, low taxes and good schools soon to be replaced by terrible traffic, high taxes and failing schools teaching bullshit like CRT or cursive handwriting or LGBTQ history like here that serve no practical application in later life. I mean Geometry doesn’t either but at least you don’t come out dumber at the end of the class than at the beginning with the ideological BS that has invaded the curriculum of deep blue places like here.
In short much of the flock behavior is driven by the women from these areas who feel the need to be surrounded by like minded individuals and emasculated men who aren’t the head of their household and basically have abdicated the role of head of household. Big government, woman-centric, matriarchalism/gynocentrism, high taxes, high cost of living, crowded. From each according to their ability to each according to their need. Not too much deviance from the mean can’t have people be too successful/keep more of their money so long as we have ie: homeless people in the world/etc. Big government will fix it as the mainstream media tells us.
“Having recently spent a few days in Nashville I don’t understand the appeal to young people. Unless it has a reputation of being a party town, which I sorta picked up on a little bit?”
FOMO
“…failing schools teaching bullshit like . . . cursive handwriting”
—————————————
Cursive handwriting is old school. Geometry has many practical uses.
Either you control or rants, or your rants control you. Buck up, Bob, and exercise some self discipline.
“And whatever features make it a great place to raise a family due to quality of life, low taxes and good schools soon to be replaced by terrible traffic, high taxes and failing schools teaching bullshit”
Bob, just curious: What are your top 3 most desirable towns/cities to live in long term?
““Red states are the poorest in the country, Homedelete. You KNOW this. Most have the worst schools in the country as well. Mississippi and Alabama”
That is a racist and anti-black observation of the Bible Belt’s population demographics from Louisiana through Georgia and South Carolina. Liberals always point to bad statistics from “Red States” in the south, always raging with crazy hatred for the Hollywood stereotype of the white southern male, but never slow down to think. It’s the black population that drags the stats down, not the white southerners. If there are lagging Vaxx and clotshot stats in Mississippi it’s the blacks that are the reason.”
You think Streeterville is too white now? Just wait until they start enforcing vaccine passports!
Interesting article about condo de-conversions:
https://slate.com/business/2021/08/condo-deconversions-boards-chicago-miami-repairs-investors.html
“Just wait until they start enforcing vaccine passports!”
We already have this. It’s called kindergarten. And then you get another passport if you go to college.
Yawn.
So much whining about something that has been going on for decades. Literally.
“Crains reporting today that the past 4 weeks of purchases closed (July) were lower than last year.”
Additionally, the year-over-year comps are about to get more difficult. Nationwide and in Chicago.
All the headlines are going to say things like, “sales decline XYZ% from September of 2020” and it will be true because of the surge last year. If the sales are higher later in the year, I will be surprised. That is going to be one red hot market if that happens.
It really needs to cool off. Having a market that is too hot isn’t healthy either.
We need more inventory to come on. We need price increases to slow.
But if mortgage rates continue to fall, we could see one more buying surge this year.
“You’ve got an entire generation thats entire life revolves around being online. They dont need a workplace to meet people”
Does anyone here have kids or grandkids?
Asking in all seriousness.
Seems like the answer is “no.”
My god.
My kids are desperate to see people in person. To communicate in person. They don’t want to Zoom. They LIKE shopping in stores. They like going out to baseball games. They like going to bars. They don’t want to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.
My kids lives don’t revolve around being online. At all. They are way too savvy for that.
You have gotten the young people all wrong.
“Talking to recent graduates not from Illinois, Chicago isnt on their radar. Most of these kids want to be in Nashville, Austin, NY, Miami.”
Great. I never said they didn’t. But this wasn’t Bob’s scenario.
Young people are doing what they’ve always done. If they want to live in a certain city, they are finding a job THERE. They aren’t getting a job in NYC and then, yay, working from home so they’re moving to Nashville.
No.
They are going from college to Nashville for that job.
And how can you honestly say that college graduates don’t want to come to Chicago?
LMFAO.
We have one of the largest job markets in the nation and dozens of Fortune 500 companies- ALL who hire college graduates. None are coming to Boeing, United Airlines, McDonald’s, Morningstar, Kraft, Allstate, Facebook, Cameo, Groupon, Grubhub?
You just sound dumb even making these arguments now.
“I made the prediction back in December that the housing market will start to slow in the 2H of 2021.”
Slow compared to what?
The red hot market we’ve seen for the past year? The 2019 market? The 2005 market? What is your baseline?
But yes, sales will be up against tough comps in the coming months due to last year’s strong market. It will be hard to lap those numbers. Might still do it for a few months, though, depending on the mortgage rates. If they fall below 2.75% could see a surge again.
“The demand factor of where in the city is likely to change.”
They just sold out a 124 unit apartment building within 6 months at Wabash and Randolph- not exactly the location I would think young people would want to be living if they didn’t have to go into an office. It was at premium prices.
We will see what happens with One Chicago. It’s a massive development at the most expensive price point in the city. Move-ins will begin in October.
“Parkline should never have been condos.”
It could have been condos, but not $1.5 million condos.
That’s another level of buyers who demand certain things- like views.
They only built 20 condos so they shouldn’t have a hard time renting those out.
Like I’ve been saying, the luxury condo market is over saturated in Chicago. There is a LOT of competition. You can’t just build a bunch of 3-bedrooms with luxury finishes and expect they’re going to sell when there are 5+ other new buildings at the same price point also selling.
“Extend & pretend ad infinitum. Winter is coming.”
There’s Bob betting against America. Again.
I don’t get it.
Why do you WANT the country to fail? Why are you seeking out a recession or depression?
Why do the bad scenarios float your boat?
I don’t get it.
How do you even wake up in the morning with all that doom and gloom hanging over your head every day?
“Why do you WANT the country to fail? Why are you seeking out a recession or depression?”
I think he (and most) want a market that’s not controlled by Government decree so that investors/consumers can formulate true price discovery.
That’s not wanting the country to “fail” more of where is the market when subsidies and controls are removed.
This part needs to start with the FED ASAP (should have happened months ago).
“That is a racist and anti-black observation[.] […] It’s the black population that drags the stats down, not the white southerners. If there are lagging Vaxx and clotshot stats in Mississippi it’s the blacks that are the reason.”
Here’s the vax breakdown in Mississippi:
https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/resources/12130.pdf
And here’s the %age of the population in MS:
White 1,705,165 57.40%
Black/African American 1,118,431 37.65%
Bedrock definition of racism is assuming something to be true bc of race, regardless of the facts. Which–it seems to me–the quote above does, and here, the facts contradict the assumption–the covid vax rate is essentially identical bt black and white Mississippians.
So, who is making the racist and anti-black “observation”?
“My kids are desperate to see people in person. To communicate in person. They don’t want to Zoom. They LIKE shopping in stores. They like going out to baseball games. They like going to bars. They don’t want to sit in their apartments for the rest of their lives.”
How the fuck is that related to WFH and how would WFH preclude one from doing any of the above? You have some really weird ideas
Are these the same “Children” than dont want to learn how to drive?
If so, weird combo
“Young people are doing what they’ve always done. If they want to live in a certain city, they are finding a job THERE. They aren’t getting a job in NYC and then, yay, working from home so they’re moving to Nashville.”
Ok Boomer
The only difference is now w/ WFH they dont have to relocate to that city. This isn’t all jobs but there are a fair amount where this is feasible
“And how can you honestly say that college graduates don’t want to come to Chicago?”
Thats not what I said, but per usual you cant help but lie. Its what you do
“We have one of the largest job markets in the nation and dozens of Fortune 500 companies- ALL who hire college graduates. None are coming to Boeing, United Airlines, McDonald’s, Morningstar, Kraft, Allstate, Facebook, Cameo, Groupon, Grubhub?”
Job markets change
Anon(tfo),
Not to defend HH, but he is correct. Blacks are the reason for lagging vax rates in MS. But because they have vax rates nearly identical to whites in MS, whites are also the reason for low vax rates too. Two things can be true at once. Blacks AND whites are responsible for low vax rates in MS.
Now do Cook County:
https://www.wbez.org/stories/vaccination-rates-across-chicago-suburbs-range-from-under-15-to-over-80/01c45765-cbf4-4ead-97d7-c76a7b93f1e9
Vaccination Rates Across Chicago Suburbs Range From Under 15% To Over 80%
There’s more than just an hour drive separating the Chicago suburbs of Dixmoor and Northbrook.
The two communities have vastly different COVID-19 vaccination rates. More than 81% of Northbrook residents are fully vaccinated, while barely 13% of Dixmoor residents are.
That stark gap is playing out across Chicagoland. A WBEZ analysis of Cook County vaccination data by municipality found a stark gap between the most vaccinated suburbs and least vaccinated ones. The 10 communities with the highest vaccination rates are all majority white and affluent, while the 10 communities with the lowest vaccination rates are majority Black and low-income.
“I personally didn’t imagine there would be that wide of a gap,” said Dr. Rachel Rubin, co-lead of the Cook County Department of Public Health.
All those unvaxxed boomer Trump supporters in Cook County not vaxxed! Throw them in a gulag!
““Extend & pretend ad infinitum. Winter is coming.”
There’s Bob betting against America. Again.
I don’t get it.
Why do you WANT the country to fail? Why are you seeking out a recession or depression?”
If you don’t get it it’s quite simple: I don’t equivocate high asset values with America succeeding and less than sky-high asset prices with America as failing. America to me is not defined by asset valuation.
I am predicting (not seeking out) asset price corrections because that is part of the normal business cycle until that cycle got grossly perverted by central bank interference over the past fifteen years. Instead of making recessions go away or less severe, they just delayed the pain and made it much larger. Sort of like putting bulwarks under an avalanche prone mountain to prevent it from having an avalanche for as long as possible. That works in the short to medium term but in the end you just wind up with a larger avalanche.
I also understand that the larger the financial avalanche that will hit when this correction occurs the more people will be clamoring for more government to replace capitalism which I am also against.
It’s really not that hard to “get” except for those who are willingly ignorant to these facts or somehow think “this time is different”. This time is never different it will just be a bigger correction when it eventually comes.
I have younger relatives trying to start families that are totally fucking screwed by what the policy makers have done here over the past fifteen years. Fucked over by your generation and the likes of you who say fuck it let the next guy pay for it. No I want you boomers on the hook for it and that means not getting bailed out by inflation.
Oh yeah and those relatives, they aren’t starting families in the blue states their parents raised them in, they are all moving to red states where it is still possible to raise a family without the high wages that aren’t available to 95% of families.
I stand corrected: one of those relatives is trying to raise a family here in Chicago, out of several. That person is an Ivy league educated lawyer who married an Ivy league educated doctor and lives in the GZ here in Chicago. That person is the exception not the norm.
The GZ here in Chicago is the exception not the norm. Insane property levels historically are the exception not the norm (coastal CA excepted).
“Not to defend HH, but he is correct.”
So, you assert that racist assumptions like the one I quoted:
“It’s the black population that drags the stats down, not the white southerners.”
are correct. Got it!
btw, HD, you should know that it looks like I was quoting *you*, as whatever tehHof posted was (apparently) deleted, so the only place it appears in this thread is in your comment, and where I quote your comment.
“I have younger relatives”
“one of those relatives … married an Ivy league educated doctor”
Bobbo: I didn’t realize that you were a grumpy old man even 10+ years ago when you were going to nickel beer night. How the hell old are you?
“The GZ here in Chicago is the exception not the norm. Insane property levels historically are the exception not the norm (coastal CA excepted).”
Bob and I agree on something. Lol.
The GZ is rich. It’s not how the rest of America lives. There are $3 million houses near Wrigley Field. The rest of America isn’t living like that.
Many on this site need to get out of their own little bubble. You don’t need to leave the city to do it. Just drive over to Jefferson Park. Go to McKinley Park. Head over by Midway Airport or the South Shore or Chatham.
“I have younger relatives trying to start families that are totally fucking screwed by what the policy makers have done here over the past fifteen years. Fucked over by your generation and the likes of you who say fuck it let the next guy pay for it. No I want you boomers on the hook for it and that means not getting bailed out by inflation.”
Huh?
Plenty of families could have bought cheap housing just 9 years ago. Heck, in Chicago, housings been cheap for a decade or more. They couldn’t even give it away.
So, again, I don’t understand how you think your younger relatives will benefit from a massive economic crash. Did they benefit in 2008-2009?
Everyone went down with the ship in 2008.
Baby Boomers are now 56 to 75 (thereabouts). They’re going to pass it all down in a few years so who cares?
“The only difference is now w/ WFH they dont have to relocate to that city. This isn’t all jobs but there are a fair amount where this is feasible”
Again, this will NEVER happen. If they want to be in whatever other city, they just move there after college and get a job there.
They WANT to be in New York City because it’s the center of the universe. That’s why they sought out a job there. They WANT to be in Chicago because they love the city. They WANT to be in Atlanta because they got a job at Coke. If Coke allows them to WFH, will they suddenly say, “oh gosh, I guess I’ll move to Charleston now”????
Come on.
Absurd. Or you’re just too old to know ANY college students.
“Job markets change”
Yes. They add even MORE jobs. And new jobs are created. And that’s why Chicago is booming. It is in the top 10 in the country in VC money, it’s number one in food and transportation and has the second largest financial center.
“The GZ is rich. It’s not how the rest of America lives. There are $3 million houses near Wrigley Field. The rest of America isn’t living like that.”
How is the rich person making $150k a year buying a $3MM home in wrigleyville?
“How the fuck is that related to WFH and how would WFH preclude one from doing any of the above? You have some really weird ideas”
Because when you WFH you don’t see a single soul for the entire day????
Yeah- they hate it. They want to be in the office. They want to talk to their colleagues.
I think many of you on this site have been working 20, 30, 40 years. You’re over it. You have your friends and family and don’t use your job for your social life. But you don’t remember what it’s like being 22 to 30. Your job is VERY important to your life. In fact, it’s mostly your life. And you need work colleagues as mentors and networking. You’re changing jobs rapidly and learning.
None of that can be done sitting in your apartment 5 days a week.
The hybrid model will be adopted by more businesses, like what McDonald’s has done for years. It still allows the employee interaction, creativity and energy.
When McDonald’s moved from the suburbs to the West Loop, their CEO told reporters that company productivity and creativity soared just by being located in a neighborhood with many other restaurants, including a Starbucks test cafe that was literally almost across the street from their building. Talk about being able to see what the competition is doing.
Does anyone think all those employees sitting in their Hinsdale and Oak Brook houses 5 days a week and never coming back to the West Loop would be a GOOD thing for McDonald’s business?
They already know the answer. And it is “no.”
They have already returned to the hybrid model they were doing before.
“They WANT to be in New York City because it’s the center of the universe. That’s why they sought out a job there. They WANT to be in Chicago because they love the city. They WANT to be in Atlanta because they got a job at Coke. If Coke allows them to WFH, will they suddenly say, “oh gosh, I guess I’ll move to Charleston now”????”
We’ll at least you have the sense to agree w/ me wrt NYC
As for the rest its just more of the same BS. They dont have to get a WFH job in the city they’re living. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. Its not Quantum Mechanics
“As for the rest its just more of the same BS. They dont have to get a WFH job in the city they’re living. Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. Its not Quantum Mechanics”
College students have NEVER worked. Their desire to “work from home” is therefore 0%.
Again, they got a job at Twitter in San Francisco because they, literally, want to work and live in San Francisco. If they wanted to be in Austin, they would have gotten a job at Intel or Apple in Austin. Or, gasp, Twitter’s office in Austin (if they have one).
Our young people aren’t dumb! They know all about the cost of living etc.
Lol.
You clearly don’t know a single young adult.
“Yeah- they hate it. They want to be in the office. They want to talk to their colleagues.
I think many of you on this site have been working 20, 30, 40 years. You’re over it. You have your friends and family and don’t use your job for your social life. But you don’t remember what it’s like being 22 to 30. Your job is VERY important to your life. In fact, it’s mostly your life. And you need work colleagues as mentors and networking. You’re changing jobs rapidly and learning.”
Some of us could develop relationships on our own. Others needed something (Work) to force people to interact with them for 8hrs a day
I definitely know which group to which you belong
I dont understand the mentality that those WFH are locked in some cage with zero opportunity for socializing. Project much?
“How is the rich person making $150k a year buying a $3MM home in wrigleyville?”
They’re buying the $550,000 2/2.
That price point is the top in the country as well. The GZ is not “normal” by any means measured by statistics in this country.
That’s why I’ve said in the past- you have to be crushing it to survive and thrive in Chicago’s GZ. Not everyone can do it. Most won’t make it. Many can’t afford that $550k 2/2. They will move to non GreenZone neighborhoods or to the suburbs.
“Again, they got a job at Twitter in San Francisco because they, literally, want to work and live in San Francisco. If they wanted to be in Austin, they would have gotten a job at Intel or Apple in Austin. Or, gasp, Twitter’s office in Austin (if they have one).”
Because every college grad in Austin is working for Apple or Intel…
They want to live in those cities. WFH or Remote makes it much easier and doesnt require that if they want to live in Austin that they work for Intel or Apple.
“Baby Boomers are now 56 to 75 (thereabouts). They’re going to pass it all down in a few years so who cares?”
Not if they can’t afford a nursing home when the time comes. All of us are just one health crisis away from oblivion. People forget that Medicare costs money each month and if they need any sort of health service like a nursing home for longer than a short period or a home health aide, you’re paying out of pocket until you’ve used up all of your money. Medicare will put a lien on your house and garnish your social security, so if there is a one healthy spouse and one sick spouse, the healthy spouse is fucked. Boomers need to get smart about managing their estates, but many don’t think it’s necessary because they think bad things won’t happen to them.
I wish we could go back to pensions instead of having to save money in a 401k and hoping that we’re picking good funds or saving enough.
It would be nice to use my salary to enjoy life instead of constantly thinking about saving for retirement. I could remodel my guest bathroom shower for let’s say $5,000, but if I saved that money instead and earned 7% interest for 30 years, I’d have $38,000. That money could last me a few months in retirement. I could buy a house instead of living in my starter condo, but I wouldn’t be able to save as much for retirement. I still allow myself vacations (or at least did in the beforetimes), but I live very frugally otherwise despite what is considered a good salary.
“Baby Boomers are now 56 to 75 (thereabouts). They’re going to pass it all down in a few years so who cares?”
Shit why wait, just off them now
$100k down (often from parents) plus $3.5k/month PITIA = “rich”, automatically.
Got it.
“Shit why wait, just off them now”
Shh, you’ll let out the anti-vax secret.
“$100k down (often from parents) plus $3.5k/month PITIA = “rich”, automatically.
Got it.”
I guess I set my sights too high.
Now that I’m officially “Rich”, where does one go to get all the member benefits? Is there a secrete handshake I need to know.
I think people are over-estimating how many jobs are actually going to be 100% WFH. What I’m seeing from friends, family, and my current and former clients is almost all Hybrid models. If you have to come into the office 2 days a week in NYC, you’re not moving to Austin. If you only have to be in the office 1 week a month, maybe (but the company isn’t going to reimburse your travel).
Also, many states use a “convenience (of employee) vs. necessity (of employer)” model in determining whether someone is subject to local taxes. For example, if I work for a company in NYC, but I live in Nashville and WFH, I might still be subject to NY state income tax withholding, if it’s determined that my WFH is for my convenience, rather than the necessity of my work being done in Nashville.
I know a Boomer who’s Millennial kids are working and raising a family in Cornelius, NC just outside Charlotte. So the Boomer goes to visit and he marveled at all the growth. His comment was “I’ve seen this before, it’s like the Chicago suburbs in the 1970’s” At one time, Chicagoland was ground zero for all the large homebuilders like Pulte and commercial real estate developers etc. Today, you won’t see the large public homebuilders much. Go visit the east side of Naples, FL or places like Cornelius, NC they are throwing up new subdivisions everywhere.
“lack of vaxxed in Dixmoor”
They won’t cut off welfare or free services, that’s a given. Just like they are allowing unvaxxed illegals in by the hundreds of thousands, the “vaxx” cult only applies its power trip on the whites and Anglosphere globally. The vaxx cult will deprive a white American of his job and livelihood, but they will not deny the black Dixmoor citizen his livelihood (benefits), nor with the cult require illegals to prove vaxx status. International travel is moving towards a vaxx requirement, but migrant travel is unvaxxed. Different laws. No equity, lol.
anon(tfo), you missed the overall point about “The South” and its “Red State” status. The point is that anti-white racists and liberals like to point to the red states (LA, AL, MS, GA, etc.) as having poor statistics. (This can be income levels, education levels, health, obesity, etc. A myriad of issues.) The Libs then point to the fact these states are run by Republicans and say: These white male Republican states are failures and they can’t compare to the urbane blue ones!! They completely avoid noticing that these red state stats are dragged down by the black populations in these states. They are the cause of the bad stats, not “Republicans”. The white parts of Alabama are very successful and clean, tidy, and extremely nice places to live and visit. Ever been to the Gulf Shores? Huntsville? More pleasant than Oak Park or Evanston.
Is there a secrete handshake I need to know.
If there are secretions from your handshake, you need to see a doctor.
Just like they are allowing unvaxxed illegals in by the hundreds of thousands
citation needed. Under 2% of the positive covid tests in texas are among those tested at the boarder.
*border
“That’s why I’ve said in the past- you have to be crushing it to survive and thrive in Chicago’s GZ. Not everyone can do it. Most won’t make it. Many can’t afford that $550k 2/2. They will move to non GreenZone neighborhoods or to the suburbs.”
The one “chosen” relative who does live in the GZ who is that Ivy Lawyer with her Ivy Doctor husband was the one sibling out of four whose parents pooled all their resources in: for her it worked out. Two of her siblings are working working class jobs despite having (non-Ivy) 4 year degrees in a deep blue city. She also has only had one kid so far and it looks like they might be stopping there. Because of how expensive kids are and how expensive everything else is.
If you think this GZ dual income couple comprised of a medical doctor and a lawyer are “crushing it” by only being able to afford one child you are laughable.
Be honest Sabrina: you only care what Zillow appraises your house(s) at, nothing more. You don’t care how just so long as the number is higher. It could be Chinese overseas investors buying up choice properties in bulk or it could be funny money from the Federal reserve, it doesn’t matter in your eyes. That future generations are getting screwed is of no concern: you “got yours” right? And whatever consideration interferes with your Zillow appraisal going up is of no concern.
This bifurcated fake society you globalists have created with these insane policies are about to come crashing down. I would wish I could say I can’t wait but the reality is there’s no way to predict from a policy standpoint which way the crash is going to go–it could very well wind up tilting the country ever closer to the crazy left and further away from: markets/market forces/private property rights/equality NOT “equity”.
I consider myself far more American than you because I prioritize the future of this country and it being healthy over the balance of my personal financial ledger.
“Also, many states use a “convenience (of employee) vs. necessity (of employer)” model in determining whether someone is subject to local taxes. For example, if I work for a company in NYC, but I live in Nashville and WFH, I might still be subject to NY state income tax withholding, if it’s determined that my WFH is for my convenience, rather than the necessity of my work being done in Nashville.”
This is actually a hot topic working it’s way through the courts currently as the deep blue high tax & profligate spending states in the northeast corridor fight like rats over a piece of driftwood of a sinking ship for the scraps of revenue from the new WFH phenomenon which even if they are successful in it’s both largely a zero sum game and also won’t even dent their pension deficits.
Anything to refuse dealing with & reforming the public sector pensions. Absolutely anything in deep blue country.
“If there are secretions from your handshake, you need to see a doctor.”
This being rich thing is new to me
I always thought the rich were lizard people
“the deep blue high tax & profligate spending states in the northeast corridor … also won’t even dent their pension deficits.”
NY has the 2d best funding ratio for state pensions (98%) after SD (100%).
NYC pensions aren’t in such good shape, tho. And the rest of the eastern states north of Mason-Dixon and Not Maine are pretty rough.
BTW, which deep red state should serve as the standard for “doing something” about pensions?
Texas? 74.5% ratio (2019: https://equable.org/state-of-pensions-2020/)
Alabama? 69.39%
North Dakota? 69.14?
Mississippi? 61.59%
South Carolina? 55.5%
Kentucky? 45.88%
Only state lower than KY is NJ.
Top states (all over 90) are WI, SD, NY, WA, ID, UT, TN.
“It could be Chinese overseas investors buying up choice properties in bulk”
Why is that a problem? If they are doing it there is a high likelihood that they are overpaying. I love foreign aid. Everyone was wringing their hands in the 80s when the Japanese were buying up US real estate – especially Rockefeller Center. I think they lost their asses.
“Why is that a problem? If they are doing it there is a high likelihood that they are overpaying. I love foreign aid.”
That’s not foreign aid, that’s inflation causing QE looking for a home; and because prices in real estate are set at the fringes, those Chinese buying up choice properties drive up the price for everyone trying to buy.
Just like all the people out there saying “oh it’s OK if blackrock buys up lots of SFH and rents them out, it’s a free market” because 1. no it’s not a free market, you can’t access BR capital and 2. they are artificially driving up the prices for everyone. It’s BAD public policy to have families competing with Blackrock to buy a house in Huntley or Tinley Park.
And even if they are ‘overpaying’ it will take years and years of price discovery to discover the ‘real’ price as governments around the world keep printing money and handing it to the buddies for at 0% to .25%, and in some cases, they have negative interest rates.
This is actually a hot topic working it’s way through the courts currently as the deep blue high tax & profligate spending states in the northeast corridor fight like rats over a piece of driftwood of a sinking ship for the scraps of revenue from the new WFH phenomenon which even if they are successful in it’s both largely a zero sum game and also won’t even dent their pension deficits.
Ah, yes, convenience vs. necessity is the rule used by those deep blue states like… Arkansas and Nebraska.
“Only state lower than KY is NJ.”
The state of Kentucky IS trying to address their pension shortfall against strong union opposition. Don’t look for JB Pritzker to attempt anything of the sort here in Illinois just as the Democrat governor in Kentucky Beshear tried to veto the bill but was overridden.
Once the Democrats in Kentucky regain control of the state legislature and governorship look for them to try to undo these reforms as happens here in Illinois. They are pigs at the trough and will always try to feed off of whatever they can in the immediate term even if future generations have to figure out how to pay for it.
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-general-assembly/2021/03/29/kentucky-general-assembly-overrides-teachers-pension-reform-veto/6997915002/
JB Pritzker doesn’t give a fuck about this state he just wants to stay in power. He’s an old boomer who chose the right womb to come out of and much like Sabrina he cares about the value of his portfolio and staying in power moreso than the long-term health of the state of Illinois.
I guess compared to Cuomo he’s a paragon of virtue is how the left justifies voting for him.
https://www.civicfed.org/iifs/blog/civic-federation-calls-governor-pritzker-veto-house-bill-2451
“blackrock buys up lots of SFH”
So, under what platform is BlackRock buying significant SFRs? Yeah, I know, there was the WSJ article, but putting SFRs into a CRE portfolio is bananas, and I see nothing in BlackRock info identifying their SFR platform.
So, BlackRock, as a mutual fund manager and asset manager, “owns” 5.7% of Invitation Homes. Is that where the suggestion comes from? That BlackRock owns a piece of a public company that *does* do that? Is it also fair to say that BlackRock is spreading disinformation about all sorts of things, bc it also “owns” over 4% of Facebook?
And there is this:
https://prospect.org/infrastructure/housing/blackrock-buying-houses-meme-single-family-rental-market/
“So using BlackRock as a metonym for institutional investing in housing betrays near-total ignorance about the situation. Boise, Idaho’s premier home builder Blackrock Homes probably has more of a toehold in the housing market than BlackRock does.”
I think this is another internet-fueled bozo-adopted story that isn’t really real–as it relates to *BlackRock*. It is certainly the case that there are public companies and private funds buying SFH for their SFR operations; just not BlackRock.
“undo these reforms as happens here in Illinois”
What reform has been undone? I missed where the Tier 2 pension program was rescinded.
“citation needed. Under 2% of the positive covid tests in texas are among those tested at the boarder.”
El Paso isn’t even having a bad outbreak this go around (yet). And that’s where they would be seeing it bad if it was a border issue.
It’s bad in Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio though. Worst of the pandemic.
But that doesn’t fit the narrative.
“What reform has been undone? I missed where the Tier 2 pension program was rescinded.”
It’s getting sweetened and will get sweetened at each union contract renegotiation and strike as well as tier-3 once that group has sufficient enough number of members they will also start demanding sweeteners as part of contract negotiations.
Also the company you guys are referring to is BlackSTONE not Blackrock. I was making the same mistake on social media a few weeks ago until a realtor friend (different one than the one mentioned trying to raise a kid in RN) pointed out the error. Blackrock is just a mutual fund manager it’s Blackstone that is a PE company buying companies that buy real estate.
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illinois-lawmakers-pass-pension-sweeteners-without-knowing-the-cost/
“At one time, Chicagoland was ground zero for all the large homebuilders like Pulte and commercial real estate developers etc. Today, you won’t see the large public homebuilders much.”
They have left in the last few years because our housing market has been terrible. They have openly said this.
The national builders go where the profits are the highest and the land is cheapest. That is Texas and Florida right now.
Everyone does realize that Bob the Bear has been on this blog for 14 years predicting the coming doom of Chicago, Illinois, and America, right?
It’s almost comical at this point.
What a complete waste of time and energy.
Meanwhile, people making a bet ON Chicago and America are looking pretty good right now.
“Everyone does realize that Bob the Bear has been on this blog for 14 years predicting the coming doom of Chicago, Illinois, and America, right?”
If Sabrina is to be believe that means I was here in 2007, hmm I wonder what happened in 2008-2011?
Also was I here the whole time? No took a leave of absence when there wasn’t any obvious trouble ahead for the RE market. But we’re in a 2007 scenario again.
Extend & pretend til the end.
“It’s getting sweetened and will get sweetened at each union contract renegotiation and strike as well as tier-3 once that group has sufficient enough number of members they will also start demanding sweeteners as part of contract negotiations.”
Nah, the credit agencies aren’t going to allow the state to backslide on this. They’re more powerful than the unions.
Last I heard JB was siding with the green wackos over organized labor in the nuclear bailout talks. Not a public-sector union and there’s still time.
But wouldn’t JB understand that shutting down those nuke plants plus the other coal plants already shutting down next year due to being non-competitive with natgas are going to bring economic devastation to those communities in time for the next election?
Nah he doesn’t have a clue–he’s never ran for re-election and probably never leaves Chicagoland except to goto Springfield when he has to attend. He probably flies by private jet.
I do wonder what impact the energy plant closures (whatever the source) would have on the state of Illinois’ financial condition and consequently, their general obligation debt rating going forward?
“Also was I here the whole time? No took a leave of absence when there wasn’t any obvious trouble ahead for the RE market. But we’re in a 2007 scenario again.”
Yes- that’s right. I’m sorry. I stand corrected. Bob was here being a bear for several years. But the housing bust didn’t turn out to be the apocalypse he hoped. So when the recovery started, he went off this blog.
He returns every time he thinks there’s going to be some kind of crash or doom.
There never is. Not even last year, during a pandemic.
And saying that this is 2007 is just so, so wrong. I don’t even know where to begin. But three things that will make you wrong, again, are that the demographics are completely different, the inventory is completely different and the lending standards are completely different.
How are we in a 2007 scenario again?
Because prices are at new highs?
“That’s not foreign aid, that’s inflation causing QE looking for a home; and because prices in real estate are set at the fringes, those Chinese buying up choice properties drive up the price for everyone trying to buy.
Just like all the people out there saying “oh it’s OK if blackrock buys up lots of SFH and rents them out, it’s a free market” because 1. no it’s not a free market, you can’t access BR capital and 2. they are artificially driving up the prices for everyone. It’s BAD public policy to have families competing with Blackrock to buy a house in Huntley or Tinley Park.”
So your issue really isn’t the Chinese but rather QE. If it wasn’t the Chinese it would be Blackstone – or it is Blackstone too. And you
But for everyone that sells to the Chinese at inflated prices it is foreign aid. Sure new buyers might get outbid but existing homeowners benefit. And what segment of the market are the institutional buyers competing in anyway? Certainly not $1 MM+ homes. I’ve never run into them.
“And saying that this is 2007 is just so, so wrong. I don’t even know where to begin. But three things that will make you wrong, again, are that the demographics are completely different, the inventory is completely different and the lending standards are completely different.
How are we in a 2007 scenario again?
Because prices are at new highs?”
You’re right we’re not in a 2007 scenario.
In 2007:
The Federal Reserve Balance sheet was under $1 trillion dollars.
The US Government Debt to GDP Ratio was 62.6%.
The aggregate outstanding student loan balance was $547 billion dollars.
In 2021:
The Federal Reserve Balance sheet is $8.2 trillion dollars.
The US Government Debt to GDP ratio is 107.6%.
The aggregate outstanding student loan balance is $1.57 trillion dollars.
“and [JB} probably never leaves Chicagoland except to goto Springfield when he has to attend. He probably flies by private jet.”
JB Pritzker is building a $120 million house in the Bahamas. All the contractors and subs working on it had to sign a confidentiality-NDA (non-disclosure).
Bud Biliken parade going forward, meanwhile JB has mandated masks for children again. He’s a fat sadist. Why should any Illinoian trust a man who cannot even regulate what he eats? If a person lacks self-control at JB’s age, it’s a sign of mental failure.
https://therealdeal.com/chicago/2018/11/18/add-governors-mansion-to-j-b-pritzkers-roster-of-places-to-stay/
“It’s not like Illinois Gov.-elect J.B. Pritzker is hurting for a place to crash.
The billionaire businessman and heir to the Hyatt hotel fortune has his main house on Astor Street in Chicago’s Gold Coast, a Wisconsin equestrian farm, a vacation retreat in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, known as Casa del Sueno, and another place in the Bahamas. And he just bought an equestrian estate in South Florida for $12.1 million.”
For IL government it is BAD BAD BAD to have a millionaire governor who cares only for corporate interests, but good to have a ‘benevolent’ billionaire governor, who like a mighty and wise feudal lord, is a true man of the people.
I’m waiting him for him to hold court once a month where the citizen peasants can address him with their petty grievances: Dear Lord JB, I-57 if full of potholes, can you fix it? Dear Lord Sir, the backlog of bills remains in the billions, can you repay them? Dear Lord Inherited Billionaire, can you toss us peasants some crumbs?
“The billionaire winner of the luck sperm poll and heir to the Hyatt hotel fortune has his main house on Astor Street in Chicago’s Gold Coast complete with working toilets, a Wisconsin equestrian farm where he could violate his Covid mandates, a vacation retreat in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin, known as Casa del Gordo Jodida, and another place in the Bahamas, where he can get up close and personal with his Daddy’s money and the tax loopholes he employed to minimize paying his fair share. And he just bought an equestrian estate in South Florida for $12.1 million.”
Fixed it
Difference between Trump and JB is that Trump used his affluence to correctly persuade people that he would not be beholden to the elites and crooks, and Trump stood up for the American people. He lost the election because white women are insane voters and “didn’t like his tone” and voted for the crook class (Biden) instead.
Trump never used his affluence to avoid the American people. JB in contrast uses his affluence to hide from the citizens, cabal up with the elites in secret, JB cares not one iota for the people. He can and deos avoid them completely given his real estate holdings, incl. that secret Bahamas compound. Trump’s Mar a Lago was a club, not a $120 million private cabal compound.
Face it, JB can do whatever he wants and there’s nothing IL citizens can do about it. Dumb people chose such a man.
” He lost the election because white women are insane voters and “didn’t like his tone” and voted for the crook class (Biden) instead.”
You honestly believe that’s why Trump lost? You believe Biden got *the most votes* ever of any president in American history? Most votes than the previous winner, the 2008 Obama “Hope and Change” campaign?
The Big Lie is that the 2020 election was clean, without fraud, and legitimate.
“If a person lacks self-control at JB’s age, it’s a sign of mental failure.”
You think a person who overeats has mental failure but you worship a pathological liar?
“You believe Biden got *the most votes* ever of any president in American history? Most votes than the previous winner, the 2008 Obama “Hope and Change” campaign?
The Big Lie is that the 2020 election was clean, without fraud, and legitimate.”
Do you honestly believe that there were millions of fraudulent votes for Biden? Show us ONE piece of evidence.
“Do you honestly believe that there were millions of fraudulent votes for Biden? Show us ONE piece of evidence.”
They were going to show us all the fraud in Arizona after doing the “audit.”
It’s been 5 months.
We’re still waiting for all the evidence of fraud. Are they even still looking at ballots there? Or have they thrown in the towel. Lol.
“You believe Biden got *the most votes* ever of any president in American history?”
Yes. That’s correct. It’s amazing how many good Americans turn out at the voting booth to get rid of someone who is an incompetent authoritarian.
Trump is the best thing to ever happen to the Democratic party. I hope he sticks around and “runs” for 2024 as long as possible. I hope he’s out on the campaign trail for months ahead of 2022. I hope he goes after Cheney and Kinzinger, as he’s said he will.
“Trump never used his affluence to avoid the American people.”
Hanging out every weekend with rich people at Mar-a-Lago isn’t “avoiding” the American people?
Lol.
“He’s a fat sadist. Why should any Illinoian trust a man who cannot even regulate what he eats? If a person lacks self-control at JB’s age, it’s a sign of mental failure.”
I guess you didn’t vote for the prior President then?
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/04/zuckerberg-funded-2020-election-grants-least-21-todd-shepherd/
Zuckerberg Funded 2020 Election Grants in at Least 21 Pennsylvania Counties
https://www.westernjournal.com/wisconsin-election-official-says-zuckerberg-funded-group-seized-control-2020-election/
Wisconsin Election Official Says Zuckerberg-Funded Group Seized Control of 2020 Election
Ex-Brown County Clerk Sandy Juno has stepped forward alleging that political activists working for a Mark Zuckerberg-funded group influenced the November election in Green Bay and other cities by “sidelining career experts and making last-minute changes that may have violated state law,” according to Just the News.
The allegation comes from funding traceable to the “Zuckerberg-backed” Center for Tech and Civic Life, which the report states “poured millions of dollars into multiple key Wisconsin Democratic strongholds in the months leading up to last year’s presidential race, ostensibly in an effort to shore up voting systems and infrastructure amid the SARS-Cov-2 pandemic.”
https://www.judicialwatch.org/investigative-bulletin/time-magazine-celebrates-lefts-election-victory-exposes-links-to-protests-violence/
On Election Day, Ball writes, “the nation was braced for chaos. Liberal groups had vowed to take to the streets, planning hundreds of protests across the country. Right-wing militias were girding for battle.”
But a “a well-funded cabal of powerful people” was ready. They ranged “across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information.”
What did this conspiracy do? “They got states to change voting systems and laws and helped secure hundreds of millions in public and private funding. They fended off voter-suppression lawsuits, recruited armies of poll workers and got millions of people to vote by mail for the first time. They successfully pressured social media companies to take a harder line against disinformation and used data-driven strategies to fight viral smears. They executed national public-awareness campaigns that helped Americans understand how the vote count would unfold over days or weeks, preventing Trump’s conspiracy theories and false claims of victory from getting more traction.”
Who were the conspirators? They were “left-wing activists and business leaders,” the strange bedfellows of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the AFL-CIO, Democrats, Republicans, advocacy groups, “the institutional left, like Planned Parenthood and Greenpeace; resistance groups like Indivisible and MoveOn; progressive data geeks and strategists, representatives of donors and foundations, state-level grassroots organizers, racial-justice activists.” And more: “Congress, Silicon Valley and the nation’s statehouses,” were involved. Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg’s philanthropic Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, Leadership Conference on Civil Rights CEO Vanita Gupta (now a Biden nominee for associate attorney general), former House leader Dick Gephardt, the National Council on Election Integrity, the Voting Rights Lab, and dozens of other groups and individuals were involved.
“And he just bought an equestrian estate in South Florida for $12.1 million.”
I pity the horse that JB decides to mount. That has to be animal cruelty.
“It’s amazing how many good Americans turn out at the voting booth to get rid of someone who is an incompetent authoritarian. Trump is the best thing to ever happen to the Democratic party.”
Sabrina, I’m sorry, but that’s simply not the case. And believe me, I wish it were. Biden’s win was incredibly narrow, like, by not even enough people to fill two of the biggest NFL stadiums. And I don’t want to hear about the 7+ million number – that’s not what matters. Trump made this country a global laughing stock, is responsible for hundreds of thousands of otherwise preventable Covid deaths and longterm recoveries (and the cult continutes to have us against the ropes in that regard), and was fuel on the fire during all of last summer’s racial unrest, among a very long list of other failures/defects. And even with all that, he almost won again.
“:Trump made this country a global laughing stock, is responsible for hundreds of thousands of otherwise preventable Covid deaths and longterm recoveries (and the cult continutes to have us against the ropes in that regard), and was fuel on the fire during all of last summer’s racial unrest”
Well that’s because none of those things are actually true…
homedelete,
You suggested that Biden did not get millions more votes than Obama. That sure sounds like you believe there were millions of fraudulent votes. People voting by mail for the first time are not fraudulent votes. Votes that are not influenced by disinformation are not fraudulent. Votes influenced by public awareness campaigns are not fraudulent.
There is a reason I specified that I was looking for ONE piece of evidence that there were millions of fraudulent votes. That’s because every time the far right discusses this topic they do exactly what you just did. They respond with a deluge of vague accusations and loosely connected facts that lead to no conclusions but sound good on the surface.
homedelete,
Just to be clear…I was looking for convincing evidence that voting systems had been compromised or that votes had intentionally been miscounted. I have seen nothing of the sort.
“Just to be clear…I was looking for convincing evidence that voting systems had been compromised or that votes had intentionally been miscounted. I have seen nothing of the sort.”
Of course you haven’t, you can’t see real estate bubbles either. Biden won, and by golly, America is saved! And real estate prices are high but there’s no signs of fraud there either, and prices will remain at a permanent plateau (meanwhile appraisal fraud, lending fraud, MBS packaging fraud runs rampant) but you don’t see it so it must not exist!!
There were not millions more votes cast for Biden than were cast in the Senate and House races. The Republicans gained in the House, and narrowly lost the Senate after two run off elections. Upshot is that Biden is effectively neutered.
It also means that Republicans have to argue that Democrats could gin up millions of votes nationwide at the top of the ticket, and fill in the bottom of the ticket as well, but for Republican candidates.
Does that sound even remotely reasonable?
Why can’t Trumpsters accept the fact that just as The Orange One motivates his own base, he also motivated his opposition, and, more importantly, swing voters who don’t like Democrats but loathed Trump, and therefore split their votes?
Listening to the right wingnut conspiracy theorists is like watching Piltdown Man read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
“And real estate prices are high but there’s no signs of fraud there either, and prices will remain at a permanent plateau (meanwhile appraisal fraud, lending fraud, MBS packaging fraud runs rampant) but you don’t see it so it must not exist!!”
Not believing in something that there is no evidence for is much more reasonable than believing something that there is no evidence for.
You believe Biden got *the most votes* ever of any president in American history? Most votes than the previous winner, the 2008 Obama “Hope and Change” campaign?
Of all the dumb-ass Republican talking points about the 2020 election, this is the dumbest.
Both Biden AND Trump got more votes in 2020 than Obama got in 2008, because there were 25 million more voters in 2020 than in 2008.
So, the nefarious reason that Biden got more votes than Obama are:
1) population growth between 2008 and 2020*
2) higher turnout percentage in 2020 than 2008
3) how numbers work
*technically population growth between 1990 and 2002 is what drove the increase since the increase in people of voting age is what counts
“Trump made this country a global laughing stock, is responsible for hundreds of thousands of otherwise preventable Covid deaths and longterm recoveries (and the cult continutes to have us against the ropes in that regard), and was fuel on the fire during all of last summer’s racial unrest, among a very long list of other failures/defects. And even with all that, he almost won again.”
I can’t forgive Trump voters. I gave up a close friend because of it. The only thing that kept me from writing off my uncle was that he has dementia. I was going to move to Estonia if he had won again. If he runs again and wins, I’m getting out of this country. I would rather not watch my country fall apart. The fact that so many people voted for someone who bragged about assaulting women is disgusting and unforgivable on its own. People still voted for him a second time after everything that followed. Hillary was right, Trump supporters are a basket of deplorables. I thought she was a terrible candidate and I didn’t like her, but she was right about that.
Jenny,
Look up “Tara Reade”. Avoid any left wing source, review the facts. The victim’s own mother called up Larry King after the incident to complain about the assaulter, today revealed as Biden.
Johnc: You liked The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I’ve never read it, can you tell us more about it? How many copies do you own yourself?
Gary: https://www.kansas.com/news/business/article1079915.html
“Citigroup has agreed to pay $285 million to settle civil fraud charges that it misled buyers of a complex mortgage investment just as the housing market was starting to collapse.”
But this doesn’t happen any more, right? We’ll just have to wait another 14 years for the fraud being committed now to come to light?
Madeline:
Of course there is no fraud, of course! Just trust us, we say there is no fraud, so there’s no fraud! Ignore the 3 am vote drops, ignore the absentee votes tallied and counted two weeks after the election, ignore the ‘no voter id’, ignore the lack of chain of custody like GA
“Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger announced Monday that a thorough investigation will be conducted of Fulton County’s inability to produce the critical chain of custody documents for absentee ballots deposited in drop boxes during the November 3, 2020 election.”
Ignore that Brown County, WI gave the *physical key* to an outside operative to count the ballots: Here’s what the emails and Wisconsin Spotlight’s investigation found:
A former Democratic operative, Michael Spitzer-Rubenstein, served as a de facto elections administrator and had access to Green Bay’s absentee ballots days before the election
Spitzer-Rubenstein asked Green Bay’s clerk if he and his team members could help correct or “cure” absentee ballots like they did in Milwaukee.
Green Bay’s clerk grew increasingly frustrated with the takeover of her department by the Democrat Mayor’s staff and outside groups.
Brown County Clerk Sandy Juno said the contract stipulated that Spitzer-Rubenstein would have four of the five keys to the KI Center ballroom where ballots were stored and counted.
Brown County’s clerk said the city of Green Bay “went rogue.”
Election law experts said the city illegally gave left-leaning groups authority over the election.
https://wisconsinspotlight.com/special-investigation-infiltrating-the-election/
The problem madeline, is that half the country no longer believes anything you say. Your side *gaslights*. “There’s nothing to see here folks!”
https://www.abc27.com/news/us-world/politics/election/dead-people-receiving-ballot-applications-causing-concern-and-drawing-confusion/
HARRISBURG, Pa. (WHTM) — It appears dead people across the Midstate are getting offers to apply for mail-in ballots.
Is it a scam? Voter fraud? Can dead people cast ballots? The answer to those questions is no.
But is it causing confusion and concern? That answer, however, is a resounding yes.
Terry Orendi was caught by surprise when her husband received an application for a mail-in ballot. The problem is that her husband is dead.
“For my husband. He’s deceased now almost two years,” Orendi said.
She posted the unexpected application on Facebook and it blew up. Lots of other dead people have been receiving applications too.
HD, do you just post a bunch of bullshit assuming that no one will read your links? These articles are heavy on innuendo and light on facts.
From the Western Journal article:
If Juno’s claims are, in fact, true, could this mean these changes influenced the state’s flip from red to blue in 2020?
So, the article does not establish a) if the claims are true or b) if the changes influenced the flip.
From the Frontpage mag article:
Grant monies awarded to help fund the 2020 election in at least 21 different Pennsylvania counties were heavily skewed toward counties with high Democratic registration and recent voting turnout, an analysis from Broad + Liberty shows.
Nowhere in this article does it indicate whether the grants were available to all counties. It does, however, note: Pennsylvania Republicans were skeptical and sometimes irate with the grants Did counties have to apply for these grants? I don’t know, as the article doesn’t address that. All this seems to establish is that areas with more voters got more money from these grants.
The judicial watch article: I’m not even sure what point they are trying to make (this is true of many judicial watch articles, BTW). It seems to be a long whine about “big tech censoring”, “leftist protesters” and the supreme court refusing to hear their ridiculous suit.
I am sort of baffled by the Right’s demonization of Zuckerberg, since he appears to be a classic “Rockefeller Republican”, and was pretty sympathetic to the Trump admin.
“Johnc: You liked The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I’ve never read it, can you tell us more about it? How many copies do you own yourself? ”
——————————
Never had a copy and never read it. Just know that it is a persistent hoax widely believed by conspiracy theorists, like the hoax that Trump had the 2020 election stolen from him.
Terry Orendi was caught by surprise when her husband received an application for a mail-in ballot. The problem is that her husband is dead.
“For my husband. He’s deceased now almost two years,” Orendi said.
So, he was registered to vote in 2016 and received a ballot application for 2020? If the ballot application had been submitted and reviewed, what would have happened? If he had been sent a ballot and someone had filled out the ballot and submitted it, what would have happened? More innuendo.
And, dude, stop posting articles about the “Zuckerberg grants” from months ago. Multiple lawsuits regarding these grants have been filed in multiple states, some before the election and some after. They have all been thrown out. Many by conservative judges.
Madeline,
You and I will never agree, but fortunately, legislatures around the country are still investigating 2020, because the the shrieks of “there’s nothing to see here” no longer mean anything. If there’s no fraud, then there’s nothing to worry about. Turn over the machines, complete the audits, and if the results are legitimate, you’ll probably never hear about it again. But the Big Lie is to claim that 2020 was totally legit. It was unlike any other election in our history and we’ll eventually find out how legitimate it was.
Remember, The coronavirus COULD NEVER have come from a lab, and it’s racist to suggest otherwise!
“Never had a copy and never read it. Just know that it is a persistent hoax widely believed by conspiracy theorists, like the hoax that Trump had the 2020 election stolen from him.”
Please tell us more about the Protocols of Elder Hoax, johnc? What parts of the hoax do you agree with? Please be specific
The lawyers in Trump’s lawsuits regarding the election are facing potential sanctions for making baseless accusations in court. Did anyone else watch the hearing? https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-lawyers-tried-defend-indefensible-michigan-it-didn-t-go-n1273889
“I was going to move to Estonia if he had won again.”
Ahh the ol’ threat to leave the country if Trump won (again). Well you didn’t leave the country when he won the first time and you most certainly wouldn’t if he won again. Because Jenny let’s be honest even if you have an Estonian passport due to having a family lineage there you aren’t Estonian and know nothing about Estonia and wouldn’t be employable in Estonia to do much more than wash dishes.
But your infantile threats are humorous.
I know a few people who voted Trump just because they detested many of the celebrities that claimed were going to leave the country if he won. Boy were they disappointed when it was all bloviating.
Jenny the world isn’t your oyster where you think you can just pack up and move wherever on a whim. That you, as a full grown adult, would think so shows the true lack of maturity and self-reflection.
if the results are legitimate, you’ll probably never hear about it again
Comedy gold!
The coronavirus COULD NEVER have come from a lab, and it’s racist to suggest otherwise
You are conflating a lab leak and and engineered virus. Lab leak is extremely unlikely and engineered virus is even more extremely unlikely.
I have a real estate (ish) question, that probably should wait for Monday, but it seems like a lot of people are posting here today, so…
Why did wealthy Chicagoans of the gilded age build their summer homes in Lake Geneva, rather than on the Chain o’ Lakes?
“Lab leak is extremely unlikely ”
Why is it extremely unlikely? Because we were studying similar viruses here and in 2015 decided to shut down the whole thing because it was deemed too risky?
Or because you believe whatever the TeeVee tells you to believe?
homedelete,
You are providing a great example of exactly what the problem is with the whole narrative from the far right. It’s a constant barage of disconnected facts mixed with suspicions and some misinformation mixed in. It’s all supposed to be point at something but it doesn’t. That’s why I keep asking for ONE piece of evidence.
Let’s focus just on Green Bay if you would. It has nothing to do with the mortgage crisis and it has nothing to do with Covid leaking from a lab and it has nothing to do with Biden allegedly molesting someone and it has nothing to do with the Southern border. Just humor me. Is there any evidence that significant fraudulent votes were cast or that votes were miscounted in Green Bay? Or do the folks on the right just worry that maybe something happened?
“If there’s no fraud, then there’s nothing to worry about.”
Yes there is unfortunately, If anyonne with any claim can “audit” election results according to their own protocols and procedures then no election will ever be final and nobody will ever trust election results. We will have people checking ballots for alien DNA and dismantling voting machines looking for Chinese thermostats 10 years after an election. That Maricopa fraudit is a disgrace.
Or because you believe whatever the TeeVee tells you to believe?
Unlikely, since I don’t watch tv news.
Here’s a good article. It’s not impossible that it was a leak (or even that it was bio-engineered), it’s just that most evidence doesn’t point to that.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/15/lab-leak-theory-doesnt-hold-up-covid-china/
Another thing I don’t get is Republicans pushing the lab leak / bioengineered virus theory. It just makes the Trump admin’s credulous acceptance of China’s early reporting and Trump’s praise of Xi’s handling of China’s outbreak look worse in retrospect.
I mean, what’s the endgame here? They prove it was bio-engineered (or “prove” it by convincing enough people that it’s true, regardless of facts), and then their message is, what? There was a bio-weapon running rampant in the US and the Republican administration and Republican governors and Republican elected officials across the country did everything they could to oppose efforts to stop it?
The end game is to prevent this from happening again if indeed it escaped from a lab. It need not be bio-engineered nor a bioweapon research project for it to have leaked from a lab.
It’s most likely origin was natural then studied in that lab until it got out. China is a very big country with a lot of people, that people just so happened to start falling ill in very close proximity to the country’s only Biosafety Level-4 lab is one giant coincidence. I don’t believe in coincidences of this sort.
It originated from them trying to find the source of the original SARS outbreak and possibly prevent a future pandemic, which in fact wound up causing said pandemic. Much like the Chernobyl disaster was caused by them testing a safety system.
“After preliminary work elsewhere, his Chinese colleagues focused their attention on a large population of horseshoe bats sharing a cave in Yunnan province. Year after year, the researchers scooped up guano from the cave floor and analyzed it for viruses. They drew blood and took saliva and urine samples from the captured bats, trying to avoid being bitten.
In 2017, the scientists proposed their origin theory: They found bats with a coronavirus strain that had the ability to infect humans. The scientists speculated that bats living in the same cave infected each other with different viral strains, which mixed together and eventually created a SARS-like virus that jumped into humans.
After all the painstaking, gritty work, this was the closest they could come to finding the disease’s origin.”
https://www.wsj.com/articles/bat-scientists-warn-that-the-world-may-never-know-covid-19-origins-11626026153
“Please tell us more about the Protocols of Elder Hoax, johnc? What parts of the hoax do you agree with? Please be specific”
—————————-
A hoax is a hoax. I never said anything about agreeing with any part of it. You’re the one agreeing with a hoax, and that’s the Trump Won hoax.
As for holding audits, why indulge wacko conspiracy theorists in the first place? You assume that their challenges are credible. Then there’s the small fact that the alleged auditors are either liars or incompetent or both. For example, the Arizona auditors claimed there were over 74,000 unexplained early votes. Turned out they were comparing a list of mailed-out ballots with a list of mailed out ballots PLUS in-person early voters. The auditors were simply trying to smear and insinuate. Why indulge that behavior?
And I notice you’ve run right away from the fact that the down-ballot vote tally is consistent with the presidential vote tally. Nobody likes a coward.
“You liked The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? I’ve never read it, can you tell us more about it? How many copies do you own yourself? ”
you can read it youself HD
the FBI tweeted it out not long ago, lol
https://vault.fbi.gov/protocols-of-learned-elders-of-zion/protocols-of-learned-elders-of-zion-part-01-of-01/view
“Jenny the world isn’t your oyster where you think you can just pack up and move wherever on a whim. That you, as a full grown adult, would think so shows the true lack of maturity and self-reflection.”
I have friends who live in Estonia who I have visited. Estonia has a digital nomad program that allows people to immigrate and work remotely.
The primary issue I may have experienced was whether my employer could handle the tax situation for an overseas employee. Dealing with the taxes and getting set up financially would have been difficult for me, but there are people who can be hired to help.
I like the Estonian culture and natural beauty plus having friends there helps. Estonia wants immigrants, so they have programs to make the move easier.
I want to stay here, but there is only so much I am willing to tolerate and I would rather not witness to this country’s demise.
I didn’t consider moving in 2017 because I didn’t realize just how awful it would get. Covid threw a wrench in my plans and would have made it impossible to move in the near term. Although, if not for covid, I am almost certain Trump would have been re-elected seeing as people are selfish and vote based almost entirely on their personal financial situation.
“I have friends who live in Estonia who I have visited. Estonia has a digital nomad program that allows people to immigrate and work remotely.”
I’ve heard about this program and it is mostly fluff. You can actually do this remote work thing in most countries (as you are not competing for a local job). But have you ever worked in a timezone that isn’t yours?
I’ve worked with people in the Philippines & India who had to work on USTZ and the turnover is astronomical. As soon as they are able to find local timezone work at comparable pay they quit.
As someone who was an expat in the past I can confirm the taxes are a nightmare. Even when a Big-4 firm is supposedly managing them (which apparently they weren’t managing them because I got harassed by a foreign tax authority for some years on return).
WP on July 22: “Jacksonville hospitals are not “filling-up”. There ICU capacity hasn’t been below 75% full since last September.
Total hospitalizations are barely above half of January’s peak…..”
Nobody knew it could get worse.
“Terry Orendi was caught by surprise when her husband received an application for a mail-in ballot. The problem is that her husband is dead.
“For my husband. He’s deceased now almost two years,” Orendi said.
She posted the unexpected application on Facebook and it blew up. Lots of other dead people have been receiving applications too.”
This happens every election. There are always people who die but who stay on the voter rolls. Doesn’t mean they end up voting, does it? No.
More hysteria about nothing.
Didn’t they find in Georgia it was literally only like 10 dead people who voted?
There were millions of votes cast. If anything, it’s remarkable how little messed up ballots there were (for both parties.) Our elections are mostly run pretty smoothly.
That’s the tragedy of what the Republicans are trying to sell about 2020. They are making people doubt now. But I think it’s going to come back to bite the Republicans themselves in the next several election cycles because it is the Republican voters who think it’s fraudulent and don’t trust the system. So why vote?
“Ignore the 3 am vote drops, ignore the absentee votes tallied and counted two weeks after the election, ignore the ‘no voter id’, ignore the lack of chain of custody like GA”
Yawn.
All of what you describe happens every single darn election. The “3 am vote drops” are simply the absentee ballots getting counted. Again, happens every election.
So sad what the Republican party is doing to civic duty in this country. But as I said in my other comment, it’s going to come to hurt them in future elections because they are making their own voters mistrust the system. So why vote? Democrats, however, feel more strongly than every before. Hence, all the voter suppression tactics taking place.
“The Republicans gained in the House, and narrowly lost the Senate after two run off elections. Upshot is that Biden is effectively neutered.”
Yet, he’s about to get a trillion dollar infrastructure deal passed and if he can get the bigger Reconciliation bill through (iffy at this point), along with the last huge stimulus bill they pushed through, he’s somehow managing to be one of the more consequential presidents of the last 50 years.
Competence matters even while being “effectively neutered.”
“Just to be clear…I was looking for convincing evidence that voting systems had been compromised or that votes had intentionally been miscounted. I have seen nothing of the sort.”
Because, as is obvious now, there isn’t any evidence. But homedelete has to pivot to some other “fraud” to argue that the election was somehow mysteriously fraudulent too. What a tragedy.
The “auditors” in Arizona have had those ballots for months. Where’s the smoking gun?
There isn’t any.
“Biden’s win was incredibly narrow, like, by not even enough people to fill two of the biggest NFL stadiums.”
By the electoral college, sure.
But he won by the widest margin in decades in the popular vote. Since Reagan.
And, yes, Trump is the best thing to ever happen to the Democrats. You think they’re taking back the House with Hillary in the White House? No way.
But the craziness and revenge against older social programs like Obamacare, social security and Medicare, really turned out the voters.
And will again.
And now here is Trump out there telling Republicans not to vote for the Infrastructure Plan. The very thing he promised to do while president and never did. The one thing the Democrats would have worked with him on. And what’s the reason for voting against it? He gives none.
It’s laughable now.
But I agree with you anonny, that Trump’s ability to still get that many votes in the face of death and incompetence, is truly scary. The next authoritarian won’t be such a bad politician and, frankly, spineless. The next one will succeed in the insurrection, even challenging the military if he has to. Trump never had the spine to go all the way.
By the way, Trump lost Wisconsin because 20,000 sane Republicans in Waukesha County decided they had had enough.
20,000 in the most Republican County in America decided to vote for Biden.
“Nobody knew it could get worse.”
Yep. WP really, really wrong on this one.
We all know how COVID works now. Wasn’t hard to see this coming. It will spread all over the country over the next few months.
“Yet, he’s about to get a trillion dollar infrastructure deal passed and if he can get the bigger Reconciliation bill through (iffy at this point), along with the last huge stimulus bill they pushed through, he’s somehow managing to be one of the more consequential presidents of the last 50 years.”
LOL
“HD, do you just post a bunch of bullshit assuming that no one will read your links?”
Has to come here bc we can’t block him.
“Yep. WP really, really wrong on this one.”
How? US covid hospitalizations are at half of what they were in January….
Again, if you are vaccinated pandemic is over…..
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html
“Here’s a good article. It’s not impossible that it was a leak (or even that it was bio-engineered), it’s just that most evidence doesn’t point to that.
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/15/lab-leak-theory-doesnt-hold-up-covid-china/”
Yet the article states that there’s an overall lack of information.
A lot of effort went into saying “We dont know where it came from”
This is a pretty good example of why trust in experts is at an all time low
“It’s still amazing that while Biden couldn’t get 100 people to show up for his rallies, nonetheless he got “85 million” votes. Seems fishy. ”
Seriously? I’m struggling not to be insulting here. That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I know probably 50 people that voted for Biden and not one of them went to a rally. I don’t even understand why people go to rallies. And why would you think there should be a correlation between rally attendance and voting? Clearly Trump voters are more of the rallying type because I suspect they have a stronger need to “belong” than Biden voters. And I’ll stop there.
“How? US covid hospitalizations are at half of what they were in January….
Again, if you are vaccinated pandemic is over…..”
Originally you did not say US hospitalizations. We were talking about Florida.
If you are vaccinated and don’t have children under 12 and don’t need a hospital for an emergency or an elective procedure and don’t care about potentially spreading the disease unknowingly and aren’t worried about infecting an older person whose vaccine may be wearing off and aren’t worried about getting miserably sick for a while yourself THEN the the pandemic is over.
“not one of them went to a rally”
Been to one presidential candidate event in my life (HW in ’88, in a park, watched from up the hill) and zero for any other office; somehow, I manage to vote in every election. Must be fraud!
And why would you think there should be a correlation between rally attendance and voting?
Also should note that the Biden campaign scheduled smaller events because, well, we were in the middle of a global pandemic and there wasn’t a vaccine yet.
“I know probably 50 people that voted for Biden…”
That’s pretty pathetic, Gary. These same people probably voted for Preckwinkle or Lightfoot, and also JB Pritzker!! Kamala Harris was polling at 2% in the Democrat primary, she was loathed by not only republicans but all Democrats too. Biden himself is a loathsome establishment career politician and he was already showing signs of being senile. Yet this lousy ticket got elected with 85 million votes? This anti-white racist Biden Entity was put over the top by white women voting against their own interests?
We have a very stupid electorate and 85 million still sounds fishy for that ticket.
helmethofer,
You’ve constructed an alternate reality for yourself and surrounded yourself with people who share that reality. It’s very hard for you to accept that it’s not real but that is in fact the case.
Many people were voting against Trump, not for Biden – many former Republicans in fact. And the fact of the matter is that Biden’s approval rating is higher than Trump’s was at this point in his presidency.
I don’t know how you get that white women were voting against their own self interest. They were probably voting for someone who would take a pandemic seriously and for someone who respected democracy.
The emergence of rallies during Trump’s 16 campaign, throughout Trump’s term, and after, and the display of Trump flags on boats, trucks and homes (often accompanied by a U.S. flag desecrated with a blue line), will one day (assuming we make it) be studied the way we’ve studied Leni Riefenstahl and other producers of fascist events and imagery.
Rember all of the unhinged Bush rallies and all of the Bush flags and hats? Of course not.
helmethofer posted:
“The Protocols have never been proved “a hoax” because it’s never been proven who wrote them. It’s allegedly either the Jews or the Czar’s police force who did. Nobody knows. Does it matter who wrote it? What matters is the CONTENT. Read them and decide for yourself. Think on your own.
Henry Ford, brilliant industrialist and great American stated in 1935:
“The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are sixteen years old, and they have fitted the world situation up to this time. They fit it now.”
Now that is how intelligent people approach study. They don’t simply toss out insults like HD did.”
———————————-
I cannot believe, Helmet, that you just defended the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” — proven to be a fraud by the Tzar’s intelligence services. Henry Ford was admittedly anti-semetic, so he is hardly an unbiased source. He’s good as to cars, not as to politics or religion or history or sociology. If you investigate, General Motors dominated the car industry — to the point of almost driving Ford to bankruptcy (which itself later barely avoided) because ford refused to offer the Model T in any color other than black.
As for a stupid electorate, I dare say that the electorate is not stupid enough to believe or defend the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” nor re-elect a lying, draft dodging, fraud of a New York developer. Sing and dance all you want, but Bill Clinton — unlike Trump — left 15-year-old girls alone.
“They were probably voting for someone who would take a pandemic seriously and for someone who respected democracy”
LOL
You mean like the eviction moratorium?
I guess this qualifies as taking Covid seriously – https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1424809139927146502
Is this his plan?
Its amazing how people shit their brains out all based upon a D or R after their name…
“Rember all of the unhinged Bush rallies and all of the Bush flags and hats? Of course not.”
hE’S LiTERallY HItLeR!!!!
“Biden himself is a loathsome establishment career politician and he was already showing signs of being senile.”
No one cared who was on the Democratic ticket. Duh. It was “anyone but Trump.”
But Biden was the perfect choice for those moderate Republicans who couldn’t stand Trump anymore but wouldn’t vote for Warren or a more progressive candidate. But middle-of-the road Joe? Sure. No problem.
And so 20,000 of them voted Biden in Waukesha County who voted Trump in 2016.
They had had enough.
“Originally you did not say US hospitalizations. We were talking about Florida.”
WP can’t admit he was wrong. So now he is acting like he was talking about hospitalizations around the entire country.
Lol.
But in Florida, Texas, and Louisiana, if you’re vaccinated, let’s hope you don’t get into a car crash, have a heart attack or a stroke, because there might not be room in the hospital for you right now. So, no, the pandemic is NOT “over” for the vaccinated in those states.
New Orleans just canceled the Jazz Fest, again. Was supposed to be in October. This is the second year they’ve had to cancel it. Bars and restaurants have been canceling inside music events as their staff has seen infections. Yes, even WHILE vaccinated. So, apparently, for vaccinated hospitality workers in New Orleans, the pandemic isn’t yet “over.” They are out of work, again.
“I guess this qualifies as taking Covid seriously – https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1424809139927146502
Is this his plan?”
This is a great example of what I was talking about above. Another disconnected fact. How does this video in any way indicate that Biden is not taking Covid seriously? Do you seriously think this sums up his plan?
Now compare what Biden is doing to the last guy who just stopped talking about Covid, who told the American people that the virus would go away, who made fun of masks, who claimed it was just like the flu, who said kids were immune to it, who had no plan for distributing the vaccine he successfully pushed through, and who suggested we research injecting disinfectants and ultraviolet light into the body. I could go on but you get the idea.
Gary, you fail to see the irony of Helmut living in an alternate reality when you also live in an alternate reality too. Your blind acceptance of the 2020 election results fits your worldview so you ignore all the other evidence – volumes of it – that the election was super fishy. The election was not 100% legit – that is the big lie. The election was also not stolen by millions of votes from a secret cabal sending server info to Germany. But there is quite a bit of evidence that there was an open conspiracy to make voting so easy that democrats would win. She that still wasn’t enough, there is a lot of evidence that batches of biden ballots were run multiple times in deep blues , or just produced, to put Biden over the top at 3 am. You can easily dismiss this as “oh it’s just absentee ballots” but the same people who have told us for two years that saying the Corona virus came from Chinese lab ‘was racist’ are the SAME people also telling me that the 2020 election was the more secure and legit ever. Same liars both time.
As for Biden, the man’s administration is a complete cluster, 2x or 3x worse than Trump. They put a purple haired freak to the Chinese envoy earlier this year and the Chinese delegates told our sec of state that he was a racist and that America was a joke. The millions pouring over the border, infected with corona, is an impeachable offense. The west wing right now is a major cluster and no one has any idea what they are doing. They can’t message, the clearly, clearly have no Plan for corona, they too thought it would ‘just go Away’ like trump did, and are caught flat footed. When the CDC’s plan is ‘masking up’ again after 18 months, god help us all. But going back to the alternative reality, you of course have no idea about any of this, because the only question the media asks is joe Biden is what ice cream flavor he is eating!
“But there is quite a bit of evidence that there was an open conspiracy to make voting so easy that democrats would win.”
So the great conspiracy to steal the election is that the Democrats got more of their supporters to vote, so their candidate won?
Caution: incoming real estate question!
My family spent last week at The Galena Territory/Eagle Ridge where we stayed in a house that had access to a community pool and Lake Galena. We’d love to buy something with a similar arrangement but within ~100mi of Chicago, but I have no idea how to search for it. How do I look for a house doesn’t have a pool but has access to a pool, for example?
I’ve had many debates like this and they are always impossible because the far right throws out a litany of complaints (x1, x2…x20)and when I respond to them they come back with “what about (x21…x40)? So do me a favor and let’s do a deep dive on ONE claim. My favorites from the above rant are:
1) there is a lot of evidence that batches of biden ballots were run multiple times in deep blues – show me the evidence for one instance – or
2) The millions pouring over the border, infected with corona – it’s not millions, maybe one million, many are being sent back, and their infection rate is no greater than the US population
“The millions pouring over the border, infected with corona – it’s not millions, maybe one million, many are being sent back, and their infection rate is no greater than the US population”
200k apprenhended/mo at current rates. That’s more than the city of Dayton, Ohio. Over the entire year that’s more than the city of Philadelphia. Unaccompanied minors and families are being let in. Those people have no right to be here.
The problem is getting so big that the Democrats can continue to ignore it at their own peril ahead of next year’s midterms.
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07/16/us-mexico-border-apprehensions-how-many/
Add Georgia to that list. Suburban Atlanta is seeing the same thing: don’t get a blood clot or have a health issue the hospitals are full and people are waiting in the hallways in recliners.
“But in Florida, Texas, and Louisiana, if you’re vaccinated, let’s hope you don’t get into a car crash, have a heart attack or a stroke, because there might not be room in the hospital for you right now. So, no, the pandemic is NOT “over” for the vaccinated in those states.”
“Originally you did not say US hospitalizations. We were talking about Florida.”
95% of the patients are unvaccinated….
Per Florida Department of Public health cases peaked last week. I said they would peak by mid-August.
Again, are you clamoring for more lockdowns and mandates? I’m not sure what your point is.
“WP can’t admit he was wrong. So now he is acting like he was talking about hospitalizations around the entire country.”
How am i wrong? I said cases would peak in Florida by mid-August, that if you are vaccinated there is literally nothing to worry about. Cases peaked last week in Florida per their Department of Health.
Are hospitals filling up with vaccinated people? No…. Not even in Florida.
“But in Florida, Texas, and Louisiana, if you’re vaccinated, let’s hope you don’t get into a car crash, have a heart attack or a stroke, because there might not be room in the hospital for you right now. So, no, the pandemic is NOT “over” for the vaccinated in those states.”
Huh? none of these are considered “elective” so you would still get a hospital bed….
You also realize that Covid patients in Florida only account for 22% of total hospital beds used in the state… and only 38% of ICU beds used are for Covid patients.
“there is a lot of evidence that batches of biden ballots were run multiple times in deep blues , or just produced, to put Biden over the top at 3 am. ”
—————————
A complete lie. Even the lawyers working for Trump after the election never put those allegations into court papers. Why? because false representations to judges is a crime.
“2) The millions pouring over the border, infected with corona – it’s not millions, maybe one million, many are being sent back, and their infection rate is no greater than the US population”
This makes zero sense
If unvaccinated people are a problem, they’re a problem.
I’m gonna throw the BS flag on the infection rate, using Mexico as a proxy for immigrants (Legal or otherwise) crossing from the south, they have 22% of their population Fully Vax’d Vs 51% of US. Unless you want to make the claim that the Vax’s are a supermajority of those crossing the border, in which case I’d ask for a link to your source
“Yet, he’s about to get a trillion dollar infrastructure deal passed and if he can get the bigger Reconciliation bill through (iffy at this point), along with the last huge stimulus bill they pushed through, he’s somehow managing to be one of the more consequential presidents of the last 50 years.”
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. The House progressives and Pelosi have said they will not take up/vote for the $1Tn package until the $3.5Tn package is passed.
Given the margin is 4 in the house the progressives say they have 12 to block the $1Tn package and there is no margin for error in the Senate on the $3.5Tn package which I don’t think Manchin or Sinema will vote for especially with Manchin’s letter to Jerome Powell the other day.
We had how many “infrastructure weeks” during the Trump years this seems like a redux and they are quickly running out of time with the debt ceiling and having to pass a budget with the FY ending at the end of next month. These are more pressing issues given the calendar.
I’ll believe it when a bill is on Biden’s desk to sign.
“Again, are you clamoring for more lockdowns and mandates? I’m not sure what your point is.”
1) Governors shouldn’t be preventing mask wearing. It’s incredibly stupid.
2) We don’t need more lockdowns. The public will lock themselves down as they see their friends die. The economic impact will be almost the same but at least nobody can blame the politicians for destroying the economy. But hopefully they will blame them for killing people by preventing mask mandates.
3) Let’s stop trying to minimize the pandemic. It’s not useful and it prevents the gullible from protecting themselves.
Found evidence of voter fraud in GA:
https://www.ajc.com/politics/walkers-wife-voted-in-georgia-as-couple-lives-in-texas-records-show/YCYYMDRYXBBTPCHMQUN36HWEKE/
“Are hospitals filling up with vaccinated people? No…. Not even in Florida.”
That’s not the relevant metric. They are filling up with unvaccinated people. They are filling up. That’s the whole point. And the vaccinated are paying for their medical care.
Seems that HD has a bad case of DDS–Democrat Derangement Syndrome.
JohnnyU,
Here is why illegal immigrants spreading covid are not nearly the problem the far right claims: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/why-we-can-be-confident-that-surge-coronavirus-cases-isnt-fault-immigrants/
“She that still wasn’t enough, there is a lot of evidence that batches of biden ballots were run multiple times in deep blues , or just produced, to put Biden over the top at 3 am. You can easily dismiss this as “oh it’s just absentee ballots” but the same people who have told us for two years that saying the Corona virus came from Chinese lab ‘was racist’ are the SAME people also telling me that the 2020 election was the more secure and legit ever. Same liars both time.”
Homedelete, you are continuing to spread misinformation. Please provide some evidence for your claims of voter fraud significant enough to have changed the outcome of the election. Yes. I’m talking about mainstream media.
I want a source from a reputable journalist who went to school for that field and who has a history of writing quality articles. Any of the following would work: The Economist, New York Times, Washington Post, the Atlantic, AP, Reuters, PBS, Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, the Hill, the Guardian, Quartz, Financial Times
Please no op-eds. I just want one well-researched article showing that fraud caused Biden to win.
“Here is why illegal immigrants spreading covid are not nearly the problem the far right claims: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/08/06/why-we-can-be-confident-that-surge-coronavirus-cases-isnt-fault-immigrants/”
Except thats not what I said. I made 2 points, the article you cite doesnt address either.
“I’ve had many debates like this and they are always impossible because the far right throws out a litany of complaints (x1, x2…x20)and when I respond to them they come back with “what about (x21…x40)?”
Exactly
“I just want one well-researched article showing that fraud caused Biden to win.”
It’s all just DDS. Ravings of a madman–“Orange man good!”
JohnnyU,
It looked to me like your point was that MILLIONS of INFECTED illegals were pouring across the border.
But it’s not millions that are staying here and they are not runninng around infected. The article does address that.
“1) Governors shouldn’t be preventing mask wearing. It’s incredibly stupid.”
Meh it’s culture war stupidness. Mask mandates aren’t going to do much at this point. The ones that will comply are largely already vaccinated.
The unvaccinated who are getting sick and hospitalized likely didn’t follow before and aren’t going to do it now.
Being anti-mask or pro-mask ain’t moving the needle at this point.
“2) We don’t need more lockdowns. The public will lock themselves down as they see their friends die. The economic impact will be almost the same but at least nobody can blame the politicians for destroying the economy. But hopefully they will blame them for killing people by preventing mask mandates.”
Meh not with you on this. The people that are dying are the unvaccinated. Their friends are likely unvaccinated as well. Most of the group was not interested in complying last year or early this year.
The public will decrease travel. The impact will be nowhere near the same.
Mask mandates aren’t getting you out of this. How we get out of this is people getting vaccinated and the unvaccinated getting infected. Why would the unvaccinated wear masks?
“3) Let’s stop trying to minimize the pandemic. It’s not useful and it prevents the gullible from protecting themselves.”
The pandemic is minimized for the vaccinated. Plain and simple. The guillable have had months of free access to vaccines. The Government can do more on vaccinations if they wanted but don’t. The unvaccinated who have had opportunities to be vaccinated have chosen not to. Life is a series of choices and decisions which lead to good and bad consequences/outcomes.
“That’s not the relevant metric. They are filling up with unvaccinated people. They are filling up. That’s the whole point. And the vaccinated are paying for their medical care.”
Meh they also fill up from alcoholics, smokers, drug users; and people that can’t stop sucking down added sugar and processed foods; people that haven’t seen their toes in decades.
That’s much more of a leach on the medical system then Covid.
Why hasn’t Biden deployed USNS Comfort to Florida, Texas, or Louisiana? Where’s the makeshift hospitals that were being made at the beginning of this last year?
Doesn’t seem like Dem politicians are all that concerned.
I’m sympathetic to the view that this is a “pandemic among the unvaccinated”, but unfortunately, everyone under the age of 12 is unvaccinated, and there’s certainly evidence that the delta variant is more likely to cause symptoms (even severe symptoms) in children.
helmethofer,
You continue to conflate every real and imagined social problem into one big blob that is the fault of liberals. That world view makes no sense. I’ve never been to a protest in my life. And being terrified of 4 more years of Trump has nothing to do with the police or illegal immigrants or anti-white racists or Obama. And why do you even care about Obama at this point?
People who post here who have hatred in their hearts for Donald Trump
Who gives a shit about Trump? He’s not president anymore.
Obama’s disgraceful hedonist, COVID & climate change neglecting B-day party is the height of hypocrisy.
Who gives a shit about Obama? He’s not president anymore.
They’re the ones who created this whole anti-police movement that has made these brazen acts of violence against police officers [possible]
If the cops want people to not be anti-police, maybe they should work on getting their clearance rate up, and do something about the violence in this city. Blame Lightfoot, blame protesters, blame white women, blame everyone but the people who are actually charged with serving and protecting.
Gary
Not sure how that would be your takeaway as my 2 points dont discuss the number.
Arguing about the number is relatively meaningless and is a smokescreen for the flexibility inherent in how the heath crisis is portrayed.
Lollapalooza – Good
Sturgis – Bad
George Floyd protests/Riots – Good
Trump Rally’s – Bad
Both sides are guilty of bad faith arguements
“People who post here who have hatred in their hearts for Donald Trump
Who gives a shit about Trump? He’s not president anymore.
Obama’s disgraceful hedonist, COVID & climate change neglecting B-day party is the height of hypocrisy.
Who gives a shit about Obama? He’s not president anymore.”
There’s entire industries that dont want that to happen Unfortunately, theres probably only 20% of the population that could make both statements.
“Meh they also fill up from alcoholics, smokers, drug users; and people that can’t stop sucking down added sugar and processed foods; people that haven’t seen their toes in decades.”
That was already baked into hospital capacity planning. We have sufficient capacity for that. Now Covid has filled up all the excess capacity in the hard hit states and the systems are at the breaking point.
“Not sure how that would be your takeaway as my 2 points dont discuss the number.
Arguing about the number is relatively meaningless and is a smokescreen for the flexibility inherent in how the heath crisis is portrayed.”
What is your point then? Now you seem to be complaining about hypocrisy in the media. I’m confused.
“What is your point then? Now you seem to be complaining about hypocrisy in the media. I’m confused.”
My point was that if the is an existential crisis, why are we allowing anyone into the country that isnt vax’d or is Covid positive? each person we let in that meets that criteria is just a another actual or potential vector
and
You data point of “their infection rate is no greater than the US population” makes no sense based upon the vax rates between US & Mexico
“everyone under the age of 12 is unvaccinated, and there’s certainly evidence that the delta variant is more likely to cause symptoms (even severe symptoms) in children.”
I’m not sure that is true. Axios says 1.5% – 3.5% of covid hospitalizations are children. Considering the vast majority of elderly people have been vaccinated this is still a very low number.
More children have died of the Flu than Covid since the beginning of Covid.
From the NIH/CDC over the weekend:
“child hospitalizations have risen in at least eight states, either statewide or in major pediatric facilities, over the past week, with a handful—Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana and Florida—reporting new records for the Covid-19 pandemic. The uptick in child hospitalizations in these states, predominantly based in the Southern U.S., also appears to be driven (at least in some cases) by a corresponding spike in cases of respiratory syncytial virus (RSV), a contagious seasonal flu that is more common in the wintertime. While RSV infections typically surge during the winter flu season, experts say the respiratory infections are likely increasing now because Covid-19 prevention delayed the normal RSV season. The CDC reported “historically low levels” of RSV while there were strict safety precautions in the U.S., but now people are relaxing and increasing contact with the pathogens that weren’t spreading as much earlier on in the pandemic”
Found the election fraud expert:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nbk4/expert-mathematician-on-election-fraud-actually-a-swing-set-installer-lawsuit-claims
“Now Covid has filled up all the excess capacity in the hard hit states and the systems are at the breaking point.”
I’ll ask again…. why isn’t Biden sending Navy hospital ships to Florida/Texas/Louisiana like Trump did for New York/California/New Jersey?
I’ll ask again…. why isn’t Biden sending Navy hospital ships to Florida/Texas/Louisiana like Trump did for New York/California/New Jersey?
Because CA/NY/NJ requested federal aid and FL/TX/LA have not.
“there’s certainly evidence that the delta variant is more likely to cause symptoms (even severe symptoms) in children.”
Further, I would stay away from the NY Times kids getting covid misinformation that they put out the other day.
Even Biden White House advisors took to twitter to call them out a week ago.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/white-house-turns-on-medias-completely-irresponsible-covid-fearmongering/
“Who gives a shit about Obama? He’s not president anymore.”
have you people no souls or morality whatsoever? Obama is only 60 years old and Michelle is from Chicago. Obama once claimed to care about his community as a community organizer, purported to care about the poor, alleged to care about black men (Trayvon could be my son), etc. etc. but yet Obama and Michelle are complete and open frauds now, as this martha’s vineyard wretched excess and hypocrisy shows. Don’t any of you care?? That he’s a fraud? That he isn’t helping Chicago or the poor?!! That he’s collected for himself a $70 million fortune without helping anyone else or working for it? I guess liberals really don’t stand for anything, they’re just motivated by hate and raving jealousy, the hatred for the top 50% of humanity they can’t seem to break into and are intolerant of. Obama is not a community organizer who cares about people, he has revealed himself as just a wannabe, and LOL he can still amass a sleazy fortune but everyone knows he’s still on the wimp, loser, crybaby, anti-white racist side of the ledger in life.
“That was already baked into hospital capacity planning. We have sufficient capacity for that. Now Covid has filled up all the excess capacity in the hard hit states and the systems are at the breaking point.”
This is nothing but hyperbole
There’s a lot of new cases in southern states but they are less severe
Hospitals almost always run near capacity, its how they make money…
““Now Covid has filled up all the excess capacity in the hard hit states and the systems are at the breaking point.”
I’ll ask again…. why isn’t Biden sending Navy hospital ships to Florida/Texas/Louisiana like Trump did for New York/California/New Jersey?”
Another misdirection. It doesn’t matter why Biden isn’t sending Navy ships to those places. That doesn’t change the FACT that the hospitals are filling up.
“More children have died of the Flu than Covid since the beginning of Covid.”
A demonstrably false statement. I can only provide one link so here are annual flu deaths in children. Meanwhile the CDC data shows around 400 kids have died of Covid so far. https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829
“Hospitals almost always run near capacity, its how they make money…”
Please don’t post demonstrably false information. I really don’t have time to fact check everyone.
Florida hospitals are now using 28% of their beds for Covid. So if they were running near capacity before Covid then things are certainly dire now. https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization
“A demonstrably false statement…. Meanwhile the CDC data shows around 400 kids have died of Covid so far”
The CDC shows 400 kids die each year of the flu Covid has gone on now for two flu seasons…..
The 19/20 influenza season killed over 400 <18 year olds.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html
“A demonstrably false statement…. Meanwhile the CDC data shows around 400 kids have died of Covid so far”
here’s your left leaning NPR on Covid vs. Flu in Kids…..
“The risk of serious COVID-19 illness in children is comparable to their risk from the flu,”
https://www.npr.org/2021/05/21/999241558/in-kids-the-risk-of-covid-19-and-the-flu-are-similar-but-the-risk-perception-isn
“A demonstrably false statement…. Meanwhile the CDC data shows around 400 kids have died of Covid so far”
Per the CDC: “More children ages 1–4 die from drowning than any other cause of death except birth defects.”
“For children ages 1–14, drowning is the second leading cause of unintentional injury death after motor vehicle crashes.”
Over 800 children drown per year. We need to ban swimming and all bodies of water that are more than 2 inches high….
https://www.cdc.gov/drowning/facts/index.html
“My point was that if the is an existential crisis, why are we allowing anyone into the country that isnt vax’d or is Covid positive?”
That’s a reasonable question. Curently the US allows essential travel from Mexico. There is a humanitarian crisis so I would think that that is just as valid as essential travel. The key is to make sure that Covid positive people are properly quarantined.
“The pandemic is minimized for the vaccinated. Plain and simple. The guillable have had months of free access to vaccines. The Government can do more on vaccinations if they wanted but don’t. The unvaccinated who have had opportunities to be vaccinated have chosen not to. Life is a series of choices and decisions which lead to good and bad consequences/outcomes.”
We just don’t know yet and need more data on the vaccinated and what percent they are of covid patients entering the hospital specifically for covid. I’ve heard anecdotes in Georgia that half of covid admits to the hospital from a doctor’s estimate are from the vaccination and I had to tell my ma to take that with a grain of salt it’s likely a lot lower but we just don’t know.
If indeed half of hospitalizations are from the vaccinated then it’s not so minimized as only half the population is vaccinated so that’s kind of a big problem. But noone either has or is interested in investigating & reporting on this data. We’re just supposedly to blindly follow the government that to get vaccinated if you’re not and that is it. No need for booster shots now and if you are honest you cannot get another vaccine if you are already vaccinated.
I want to know why I cannot get a J&J vaccine since we have so many lying around and I’ve already got two Pfizer shots without lying to the pharmacy tech and saying I haven’t been vaccinated at all already.
I also want to know the percent of people being admitted to the hospital for covid specifically that are considered “fully vaccinated”.
I don’t know why these two questions are so hard to get information on but our government only seems to believe in talking points and not answering actual specific questions about specific details.
“Florida hospitals are now using 28% of their beds for Covid. So if they were running near capacity before Covid then things are certainly dire now. https://protect-public.hhs.gov/pages/hospital-utilization”
except they aren’t because hospitals prepare for these sorts of things and have extra bed capacity at any given moment they feel they need it
WP, it is mass hysteria driven by social media and 24 hour news cycle looking for clicks.
The public is too lazy to look up the data for themselves and draw their own logical conclusions regarding risk.
Per the CDC, about 350 kids (under 17 years old) died last year WITH covid. So they tested positive for Covid. Keep in mind, this is not OF covid. So the kids likely were also suffering from cancer and all kinds of other illnesses as well. Of course, media presents it like little Johnny was running around at playground, caught covid and died.
The prior year for 2019, there were about 200 regular flu deaths. About 50,000 kids die every year from drowning to health issues.
I don’t recall any of the same level of hysteria for those flu deaths. We certainly weren’t doing zoom and forcing kids to wear masks.
Last year, we could have argued that we didn’t have any info regarding how it spread, etc. However, we do now and the data clearly shows kids are at minimal risk. Just like the flu.
“except they aren’t because hospitals prepare for these sorts of things and have extra bed capacity at any given moment they feel they need it”
So then your statement that “Hospitals almost always run near capacity” is not really true.
But there should be no doubt that the hospitals are strained. I found out where you got this narrative. This article debunks the claim https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/08/09/fact-check-covid-19-surge-overwhelms-hospitals-beyond-bed-capacity/5472960001/
Folks, time for a reality check. You are arguing with people who support Trump’s “re-election” via the validity of the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”. Shut them down, now, with your silence. Don’t try to engage them with logic, as that is like talking to the Indiana legislatures who tried to legislate that Pi was “3” plus a few odd digits because those other digits were just too complicated.
What’s the over and under of Homedelete/helmethofer OR their sockpuppets whining that I’m trying to shut down “ALTERNATIVE FACTS’ without regard to sources?
Before you start, Helmet, Homie — you REALLY don’t want to say that she was having a “blonde moment’ re Trump’s election crowda.
Jes’ sayin’
“Per the CDC, about 350 kids (under 17 years old) died last year WITH covid.”
Different variant last year Russ.
“except they aren’t because hospitals prepare for these sorts of things and have extra bed capacity at any given moment they feel they need it”
You mean those extra beds in the cafeteria in some Florida hospitals sonies?
“Florida hospitals slammed with COVID-19 patients are suspending elective surgeries and putting beds in conference rooms, an auditorium and a cafeteria.”
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-38917e4fd073c8142df15de2d8102a24
“here’s your left leaning NPR on Covid vs. Flu in Kids…..”
WP, who said there was no issue in Jacksonville, is now on this blog acting the expert on COVID with kids?
Yeah- I’d place it at 100% that he’s wrong about that too.
It’s not just the flu. I will delete any comment where someone is denying COVID (again). My god. We have 620,000 dead in this country.
By the way, 80 people a day are dying in Louisiana of COVID now. The highest of the pandemic.
But it’s “just” the flu.
“I’ll ask again…. why isn’t Biden sending Navy hospital ships to Florida/Texas/Louisiana like Trump did for New York/California/New Jersey?”
Republican governors would have to ask for that.
The federal government did just send more ventilators to Florida.
“There’s a lot of new cases in southern states but they are less severe”
Whut???
Arkansas is 37% vaccinated. Those in the hospitals are 98% unvaccinated.
How are they “less severe” than the cases we’ve seen in the other waves? The virus hasn’t gotten “less severe.”
“but yet Obama and Michelle are complete and open frauds now, as this martha’s vineyard wretched excess and hypocrisy shows.”
No one cares about Obama HH. Only you do in your delusional mind. He’s a private citizen.
When the Obama Center opens and employs hundreds of people, it will do plenty to help the economy of the south side.
“My point was that if the is an existential crisis, why are we allowing anyone into the country that isnt vax’d or is Covid positive?”
You have to take a Covid test within 72 hours of flying into the US from Mexico.
The Biden Administration is weighing whether to require vaccination to come into the country. Some hotels in NYC are now mandating that you be vaccinated or you can’t book a room.
“Homedelete, you are continuing to spread misinformation.”
It’s amazing that Biden is an incompetent with dementia yet somehow his political apparatus managed to “steal” a national election with absolutely NO proof ever found. Heck, even Kennedy and LBJ didn’t manage that.
How could it be that there was this huge multi-state conspiracy and not a shred of evidence ever found?
If Biden’s team really is THAT competent, then that’s who I want to run the country during a pandemic. They will go down in history for the best run election campaign ever.
Think about all the boots on the ground you’d have to have in almost a dozen states to pull that off?
How’d they do it in Waukesha County in Wisconsin? That’s Republican country. The most Republican county in nearly all of America. Yet somehow they managed to “steal” the election there too. Right under the noses of all those Republicans.
Biden got 20,000 more votes there than Hillary did.
Amazing.
[Sarcasm]
“2) We don’t need more lockdowns. The public will lock themselves down as they see their friends die.”
Correct Gary. There are already signs that Americans are making changes because of outbreaks in their areas. For instance, in New Orleans, several restaurants have had staff get COVID in the last week so they have decided to shut through the end of August. The government didn’t tell them they HAD to shut.
Other music venues in New Orleans are voluntarily suspending indoor music events. Some are even suspending outdoor music events. All without being told.
There have been changes in travel plans and the movie theater operators are seeing a decline in customers right now.
“Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. The House progressives and Pelosi have said they will not take up/vote for the $1Tn package until the $3.5Tn package is passed.”
Do you honestly believe all the House Republicans will vote against the $1 trillion if Nancy brought it up next week? Of course not. Will probably get 75 to 100 to vote FOR it given the support in the Senate.
So the Progressives don’t have the upper hand, frankly. But Nancy is willing to put some pressure on to get the other package to appease the progressives, for now. But she’s a skilled politician and is not going to give away the $1 Trillion.
Again, Biden is about to push through a package that 2 other presidents only dreamed about getting.
Republicans underestimate Joe Biden’s political skills at their peril.
“Huh? none of these are considered “elective” so you would still get a hospital bed….”
There’s no room at the inn, WP. Hospitals are now warning that if your child needs to go to the ICU in some cities, for any reason, there is NO room.
Wake up.
Hospitals are in crisis in several states. Our poor medical heroes. They didn’t deserve this.
“Per Florida Department of Public health cases peaked last week. I said they would peak by mid-August.”
That’s a lie. Cases continue to rise every day this week so how could they have “peaked” last week?
Lol.
And you did NOT say the cases would peak by mid-August. I actually said that the Mayo Clinic model predicted that they would peak on Aug 9 based on the trajectory of India and the UK, but both of those countries did mitigations like masks and people stayed home. No one in Florida is staying home. They are still eating indoors in the air conditioning and going to indoor shopping malls. So cases haven’t peaked.
No word on Missouri. Springfield has peaked but it has moved up the highway, as the state public health officials warned, and cases are spiking in St Louis now which is not 50% vaccinated.
“The problem is getting so big that the Democrats can continue to ignore it at their own peril ahead of next year’s midterms.”
No one is ignoring it Bob. The situation in Guatemala and Honduras, among several other countries, is grim. They are coming up through the jungle of Panama on a very dangerous journey because they are so desperate.
You’re only going to stop it at the source.
“My family spent last week at The Galena Territory/Eagle Ridge where we stayed in a house that had access to a community pool and Lake Galena.”
Good question Fred.
I would say to look for homes which have some kind of association fee as those with a pool have to pay for it.
Here’s one I know about near Rockford. Houses are on a small lake. They also have a pool.
https://candlewicklake.org/
“My family spent last week at The Galena Territory/Eagle Ridge where we stayed in a house that had access to a community pool and Lake Galena. We’d love to buy something with a similar arrangement but within ~100mi of Chicago, but I have no idea how to search for it. How do I look for a house doesn’t have a pool but has access to a pool, for example?”
Also, you might just want to cut to the chase and call real estate agents in the towns you’re interested in living in. The locals will know if these developments exist. Narrow down the area you want to look in and try that.
“Per the CDC, about 350 kids (under 17 years old) died last year WITH covid. So they tested positive for Covid. Keep in mind, this is not OF covid. So the kids likely were also suffering from cancer and all kinds of other illnesses as well. Of course, media presents it like little Johnny was running around at playground, caught covid and died.”
That’s a pretty old trope, Russ. The death certificate has to indicate the actual cause of death. If someone has cancer and then contracts Covid and ends up with pneumonia I’d say Covid was the cause of death. If I walked into a hospital and shot a cancer patient in the leg and they died because the cancer weakened their ability to withstand a gunshot wound do you think I’m going to prison?
“You’re only going to stop it at the source.”
You can’t fix the source. You’ll never stop it but you can reduce it by treating them like cattle who aren’t legally allowed to be here.
Stop being so naive that its our problem to fix their economy so they won’t come. Brutalize them and they won’t come. It’s actually something within our control that works. It worked under Trump.
Gary,
It is debatable, but that really isn’t the issue with kids. The issue is that there were just 350 deaths attributed to Covid for kids under 17 years old last since pandemic started. Practically the same amount attributed to regular flu deaths under 17 years old the previous years before covid. For all intents and purposes, statistically ZERO.
We were not masking and shutting down schools for flu, but why Covid? Why all the hysteria for something that according to the CDC is pretty much the same as the flu in this cohort?
Sabrina claims the reason is because the strain is different. Flu strains change every year too and flu deaths pretty consistent.
Why are school boards and parents freaking out? Mass hysteria due to reporting of some Delta variant. Every friggin year there will be some other variant…. just like the flu.
You can’t argue that kids might spread it. Again, that has been studied and schools are not a huge vector for spreading. Second, most of the at risk folks have been vaccinated already anyway or are now we are arguing the vaccines don’t work?
At this point, if someone doesn’t want to be vaccinated, that is on them.
This whole exercise seems like telling everyone to wear their seat belt because it saves lives. Most of us wear our seat belt, yet there are a few people who choose not to. Then bureaucrats tell those of us who do wear seat belts, no one should drive at all because the idiots who don’t wear seat belts might be at greater risk during a car accident.
“You have to take a Covid test within 72 hours of flying into the US from Mexico.
The Biden Administration is weighing whether to require vaccination to come into the country. Some hotels in NYC are now mandating that you be vaccinated or you can’t book a room.”
Thats still bullshit – Either treat it like a crisis or dial back the rhetoric. Its not helping playing PC games and is a compounding reason that people are not taking getting vaccinated.
“No one cares about Obama HH”
You dont think if Obama did a series of PSA’s, it would help Vax rates in minority communities?
“The situation in Guatemala and Honduras, among several other countries, is grim. They are coming up through the jungle of Panama on a very dangerous journey because they are so desperate.”
Yeah, they’ve never ever made that migration before
Oh, and Kudos to Biden for the delay in releasing Vax to 3rd world countries.
“That he’s collected for himself a $70 million fortune without helping anyone else or working for it?”
———————————-
He worked for eight years as president and has now written his memoirs. Being president is hard work from what I’ve heard.
Trump inherited a lot more — no work there — and you don’t whine about him, Helmet. Played a lot more golf than Obama, too.
“At this point, if someone doesn’t want to be vaccinated, that is on them.”
I wish that were true but it’s not. They are taking up hospital beds and the vaccinated are paying for their healthcare.
As for the risk to children. Give it another month or two and you’ll see how bad delta is for kids. They are in hospitals at rates we haven’t seen before.
you can reduce it by treating them like cattle
Brutalize them and they won’t come.
This is sociopathic.
You dont think if Obama did a series of PSA’s, it would help Vax rates in minority communities?
You mean like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FInw-8ZGDWY
“They are in hospitals at rates we haven’t seen before”
As I stated yesterday the NIH and CDC is saying the uptick in children being hospitalized is from a non-Covid related seasonal respiratory virus.
Kids are still developing their immune systems and have largely been shielded from germs for 1 1/2 years now. An uptick in non-covid related sickness is bound to happen.
“Different variant last year Russ”
From Dr. Arwady “her office is seeing more COVID cases among children, but that they are generally following the pattern of previous variants of the virus, with children generally not seeing severe health outcomes when they do get sick……. The good news is, just like in the other types of COVID, the huge majority of the time, they have a relatively minor case.”
“Dr. Abigail Hodges of Oak Park Pediatrics says that while the delta variant is more contagious than previous strains of the virus, it generally doesn’t cause severe health outcomes like hospitalizations and death at any higher rate than previous variants…. We are seeing more kids getting COVID. We’re seeing a lot more positives at my office, but they’re not more sick than they were before,” she said
Again i’ve said multiple times increase virulent/contagious does not equal an increased likelihood of adverse outcomes like hospitalizations or death….
Apparently Sabrina is an epidemiologist in addition to a realtor, banker, and professional shill.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/coronavirus/illinois-officials-say-covid-hospitalizations-among-kids-largely-steady-as-other-states-see-surges/2587217/
“And you did NOT say the cases would peak by mid-August.”
From my comment July 26th… I’m not refuting. I’m saying the level of alarm some people are raising is a little ridiculous. Gottlieb on CNBC this morning believes Delta will peak within 3 weeks.
3 weeks would be August 16th i.e. mid-august. I should caveat that this peak is in reference to southern states.
“So cases haven’t peaked.”
Per the Florida Department of Public Health in yesterdays Politico playbook
“After the health department’s Twitter account took swipes at media outlets that had reported the initial numbers (“wrong again”), shortly after 10 p.m. it gave out figures for the past three days showing that the cases went down over the weekend. The agency said there were 19,567 new infections for Saturday and 15,319 for Sunday.”
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/florida-playbook/2021/08/10/covid-19s-ball-of-confusion-school-masks-wars-heat-up-cd-20-special-election-draws-crowded-field-493916
“That’s a lie. Cases continue to rise every day this week so how could they have “peaked” last week?”
See Politico article in prior comment. The CDC was reporting 3 days worth of Covid data on Florida in one day and the media ran with it until the Florida Department of Public Health corrected them….
“Do you honestly believe all the House Republicans will vote against the $1 trillion if Nancy brought it up next week?”
no one can vote if Pelosi doesn’t bring it to the floor. Her statements don’t leave room or mince words. It was crystal clear this is shelved until the larger reconciliation bill is passed in the Senate which Manchin said this morning he ain’t on board with because it’s way too big.
Further, the Congressional Progressive Caucus with 96 members wrote a letter with their names on it to Pelosi and Schumer saying they will not vote until the reconciliation bill is passed through the senate.
Realistically you will get maybe 10 – 20 house republicans to vote for the bi-partisan bill if it was put to a vote today but that number will be severely whittled down probably 0 if the bill is sat on until some form of reconciliation bill is passed. That gives those republicans cover.
In the Senate Lyndsey Graham who voted for the bi-partisan bill already said he is withdrawing his support if it can only be passed in the house if the senate passes a reconciliation bill first.
The bill ain’t being brought up next week.
“Will probably get 75 to 100 to vote FOR it given the support in the Senate.”
LOL 147 house republicans voted to overturn the election. Trump castigated the Bill already. Where are you getting 75 – 100 from?
“So the Progressives don’t have the upper hand, frankly.”
96 members in the CPC with a 4 vote majority. 147 republicans voted to overturn the election. Trump doesn’t support the bill. Do the math can’t get to 218….
“But Nancy is willing to put some pressure on to get the other package to appease the progressives, for now.”
Ummm the CPC put the pressure on her. And read her statements on this bill over the past month. She left herself no out. From June 24th presser:
“There ain’t gonna be no bipartisan bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill,” she said. “As I said, there won’t be an infrastructure bill, unless we have a reconciliation bill. Plain and simple. In fact, I use the word ain’t. There ain’t going to be an infrastructure bill, unless we have the reconciliation bill passed by the United States Senate,” she reiterated.”
Pretty dang clear to me….
“But she’s a skilled politician and is not going to give away the $1 Trillion.”
She did last summer……. someone has a short memory
“Again, Biden is about to push through a package that 2 other presidents only dreamed about getting.”
I forget how many votes does Biden get in the House and Senate? Oh that’s right 0. Remember this $1Tn bill started off as like $4Tn. And most of it is paid for using unused stimulus money.
“Republicans underestimate Joe Biden’s political skills at their peril.”
This isn’t a Republican issue. This is a democrat issue. The Senate doesn’t have 50 + 1 to pass a reconciliation bill today in order for House Dems to get the votes to pass the bi-partisan bill.
Nothing to do with Republicans. House and Senate Dem Whips have their work cut out for them.
“As I stated yesterday the NIH and CDC is saying the uptick in children being hospitalized is from a non-Covid related seasonal respiratory virus.”
I’m going to take a wild ass guess that you like the NY Post: https://nypost.com/2021/08/08/covid-cases-among-kids-overwhelming-florida-hospitals-doc/
That’s a very different story than yours.
“I’m going to take a wild ass guess that you like the NY Post”
Nope it was a link in a axios article to a Forbes article. See key background section.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/08/nih-director-some-evidence-child-hospitalizations-increasing-and-kids-more-seriously-ill-but-us-lacking-rigorous-data/?sh=64d1df365d8d
“You mean like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FInw-8ZGDWY”
Thanks – Hadnt seen it. It should be running 24/7 along w/ Trump saying the same thing
“Ummm the CPC put the pressure on her. And read her statements on this bill over the past month. She left herself no out. From June 24th presser”
The CPC putting pressure is laughable. They’ll squawk and stamp their feet but in the end they’ll fall in line (Sure they’ll gets some crumbs tossed to them). They are complete chickenshits. The DC Police bill is the perfect example of their fecklessness.
2 options
Manchin get so much pork he becomes the King of WV
Pelosi caves on the reconciliation. She’s a retard, but is smart enough to know that if this gets hung up and people blame the “Progressive” wing, she’ll lose the house
“The CPC putting pressure is laughable.”
Biden extending the eviction moratorium was from members of the CPC i.e. Cori Bush in particular among others.
There is no political price to pay for withholding their votes on this legislation compared to say enhanced UI, stimulus checks, debt ceiling vote, etc.
“The DC Police bill is the perfect example of their fecklessness.”
Agreed on that but this is a much different bill. Basically their entire platform in getting into Congress in the first place is what they are trying to stuff into the reconciliation bill. They can’t back down on this one.
“Pelosi caves on the reconciliation”
I have a hard time believing she caves after the type of statements she has been making. If we are still at an impasse come Thanksgiving potentially but the reconciliation process takes a long time not to mention when Manchin and Sinema are already saying no to the price tag and even voting no on some of the more substantive environmental items that the House CPC will absolutely want in.
“that if this gets hung up and people blame the “Progressive” wing, she’ll lose the house”
She announced after winning the speakership back in 18 that she would step down as speaker after the 22 midterms. Blaming the Progressive wing is how they not only lose the house but the Senate.
Good luck winning in Arizona and Georgia again in a midterm Senate race if they start blaming the younger members of their own party.
“Biden extending the eviction moratorium was from members of the CPC i.e. Cori Bush in particular among others.
There is no political price to pay for withholding their votes on this legislation compared to say enhanced UI, stimulus checks, debt ceiling vote, etc.”
It was a politically popular decision
Biden even acknowledged that it would be struckdown by the SC.
“I have a hard time believing she caves after the type of statements she has been making. If we are still at an impasse come Thanksgiving potentially but the reconciliation process takes a long time not to mention when Manchin and Sinema are already saying no to the price tag and even voting no on some of the more substantive environmental items that the House CPC will absolutely want in.”
We’ll disagree. Its a dead issue in the Senate. No GOP support and at least 2 senators are against it (Throw in 4 senators up for election in 22 that would be at risk). The CPC is a toothless organization. Failing to exercising any power has shown this. If this is where they draw the line in the sand, it will all gut guarantee the GOP taking the House & Senate
“She announced after winning the speakership back in 18 that she would step down as speaker after the 22 midterms. Blaming the Progressive wing is how they not only lose the house but the Senate.
Good luck winning in Arizona and Georgia again in a midterm Senate race if they start blaming the younger members of their own party.”
Yeah, she’ll likely not have any choice.
Young people dont vote. She knows the calculus (Or in her case – basic arithmetic), she needs to keep Center to lean right swing voters (People who actually vote). If this gets hung up, Dems will get blamed (Have control of Executive & Legislative branches) – She’ll be the senile fall person
“From my comment July 26th… I’m not refuting. I’m saying the level of alarm some people are raising is a little ridiculous. Gottlieb on CNBC this morning believes Delta will peak within 3 weeks.”
So now it’s been pushed back another 3 weeks. Meanwhile, they are building new tent hospitals in Texas and lack of ICU beds in major cities, like Houston, has created a medical emergency.
https://abc13.com/kingwood-family-covid-icu-beds-houston-hospitals/10943622/
“Apparently Sabrina is an epidemiologist in addition to a realtor, banker, and professional shill.”
And you are?
You’ve been wrong for weeks about this COVID outbreak and continue to be wrong. It’s a very serious situation with over 500 Americans dying every day now. If 2 737s were crashing every day would we be “ridiculous” for being concerned?
Southwest Airlines said today that they are seeing a pullback by consumers in demand. Who wants to go vacation in Florida or Texas right now? No one who is sane, even if they’ve been vaccinated. Because their kids have not.
“As I stated yesterday the NIH and CDC is saying the uptick in children being hospitalized is from a non-Covid related seasonal respiratory virus.”
No one in Arkansas is saying this. It’s COVID. That is all.
I will remove the comments of anyone who is posting Covid denier theories or conspiracies on this blog.
“Yeah, they’ve never ever made that migration before”
Nope. Educate yourself JohnnyU.
Study.
Learn.
Panama has said they have never seen it like this. They had a huge climate disaster in Guatemala leaving thousands homeless. Government is inept. You either starve or you die trying to get to the United States.
They have to go to the source to solve this. It’s not Mexico. Mexico hasn’t seen big immigration in about 14 years. In the last 2 years, it has risen there due to the cartel violence but nowhere near the levels of 15 to 20 years ago.
Those who are coming are coming from the poor countries to the south. These are refugees. Women, kids, families.
“You can’t argue that kids might spread it. Again, that has been studied and schools are not a huge vector for spreading.”
This is a lie.
Just look at the spread in the summer camps this summer. Dozens were shut down due to outbreaks. Everyone knows it’s a harbinger of what will come when they are all back in the schools.
Additionally, the kids haven’t been in school with the Delta variant. It is much more transmissible than last year’s variant, as we know. It will spread within 8 seconds.
“Stop being so naive that its our problem to fix their economy so they won’t come.”
Um…the reason the Mexicans stopped coming was because their economy DID improve. The plan to elevate Mexico through NAFTA actually worked. It’s amazing what happens when you create thousands of middle class jobs and bring in Starbucks, Costco, Home Depot and all boats rise. Mexico’s economy has been struggling the last 2 years during the pandemic and due to the cartels. Otherwise, illegal immigration from Mexico was negative for many years after the financial crisis.
Real issue, now, is the poor countries to the south. This is Mexico 25 years ago.
Yes, you CAN solve some of it with investment and jobs.
“Nope it was a link in a axios article to a Forbes article. See key background section.”
The Forbes article has it’s share of weasel words: “APPEARS to be driven (at least IN SOME cases) by a corresponding spike…”
The NY Post article cites actual data showing that in Florida it is unquestionably Covid driving the hospitalizations of children.
“The Forbes article has it’s share of weasel words: “APPEARS to be driven (at least IN SOME cases) by a corresponding spike…”
Here’s The Atlantic article. Let me know when you find weasel words….
“The timing of Delta’s pediatric spike couldn’t have been worse. Many hospitals have for months been cracking under pressure from an unseasonal surge of respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) and parainfluenza—two other airway pathogens that can cause serious illnesses in the very young. Both viruses, typically fixtures of the chilly late-autumn and winter months, had all but evaporated during their typical November-to-February heyday, likely suppressed by pandemic-caliber masking and distancing. When those precautions began to slip, “boom, RSV hit us like a boulder,” Sharon Stoolman, a pediatric hospitalist at Children’s Hospital & Medical Center in Nebraska, told me.”
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/08/delta-variant-covid-children/619712/
Here’s another one from the old Google machine Sabrina. From the local ABC in Houston:
“doctors are now seeing a spike in RSV at the same time the delta variant of COVID-19 is rapidly spreading.”
“Memorial Hermann hospital tells ABC13 it’s currently seeing more pediatric RSV admissions than COVID admissions.”
The hospital must be a Covid denier per Sabrina’s MSNBC analysis….
“The children hospitalized due to COVID are mostly in their teenage years and all of the admitted RSV patients are currently under two years old.”
“Dr. Jim Versalovic, pathologist-in-chief and interim pediatrician-in-chief at Texas Children’s Hospital, said they have seen well over 1,000 cases of RSV over the past three months, which is uncharacteristic for this time of year.”
This Dr. must be a Covid denier. Doesn’t fit Maddow’s narrative.
“Meanwhile, Dr. Victoria Regan, pediatrician and VP of the Women’s and Children’s Service line at Memorial Hermann, explains that COVID and RSV can have similar symptoms in kids.”
Sounds like what the CDC said. But Sabrina thinks its a conspiracy since Maddow hasn’t mentioned it. Sabrina understand Maddow likes narratives not talking about the truth or reporting facts. She is an entertainer per MSNBC’s legal department.
https://abc13.com/rsv-illness-childrens-health-covid-in-kids-memorial-hermann-hospital/10917943/
“No one in Arkansas is saying this. It’s COVID. That is all.”
Let’s ask an Arkansas hospital what they are seeing…. Per Little Rock’s ABC affiliate on July 24th, 2021…..
“RSV is a virus that usually appears in younger children in the winter months, but the state is currently seeing cases in June and July similar to the rates they see in January.”
“Parainfluenza which causes the croup and rhinovirus which causes cold, all are back with a vengeance. So there are a lot of different respiratory viruses that we’re going to see as we come into the next few weeks and start the school year,” Snowden said.”
“Since all respiratory illnesses present with similar symptoms, Snowden said it will be difficult to know which disease a child has.”
These Dr.’s must be Covid deniers per Sabrina. Per Sabrina, RSV and Parainfluenza doesn’t exist. Only Covid. Everything is Covid.
https://katv.com/news/local/arkansas-childrens-seeing-an-increase-in-winter-virus-rsv-this-summer
“No one in Arkansas is saying this. It’s COVID. That is all.”
Here’s a CBS affiliate in Little Rock form July 20th
“According to Arkansas Children’s Hospital, between May and June, inpatient admissions for RSV increased by 90%.”
But Sabrina says no one in Arkansas says this is true….
“At Little Rock Pediatric Clinic, Dr. Natalie Burr said about nine out of the ten kids she tests for RSV are coming back positive.”
“He wasn’t getting more than 30 minutes or an hour stretch of sleep. He started projectile vomiting everything that he was eating because he was coughing so hard,” she said.
Just earlier that day, after a trip to the pediatrician’s office, Wood learned Levi had RSV and a double ear infection, but as his breathing got worse, she knew a trip to the ER was necessary.”
“Hospitalizations, like Levi’s, usually only happen in 3% of children with RSV, according to Burr.
She said with it spreading, parents should take every precaution.”
Must be Covid deniers.
https://www.thv11.com/article/news/arkansas-mom-son-struggle-rsv/91-7ff3e767-1351-4139-a7d8-b91fe033e384
Here’s the NYT’s last week.
“Cases of R.S.V. have risen gradually since early June, with an even greater spike in the past month, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention”
“In a series of posts on Twitter, Dr. Heather Haq, a pediatrician at Texas Children’s Hospital in Houston, described an increase in both coronavirus and R.S.V. hospitalizations.”
“We are now having winter-level patient volumes of acutely ill infants/toddlers with R.S.V., and I worry that we will run out of beds and staff to handle the surge upon surge.”
”
R.S.V. cases in Texas began to increase in early June and appeared to peak in mid-July, according to data from the state’s health department.
There has been a similar spike in Florida, where infections “were above those seen at this time in past years,” according to a surveillance report.
In Louisiana, where cases have jumped 244 percent in the past two weeks, Our Lady of the Lake Children’s Hospital in Baton Rouge was nearing its capacity on Friday, CNN reported.
“You start with the pandemic for the last 18 months, and then R.S.V. for the last couple of months,” Dr. Trey Dunbar, the hospital’s president, told the network. “It just seems to be one thing after another that’s keeping our teams very busy.”
In Oklahoma, which has also had a spike in R.S.V. cases, beds are becoming scarce at hospitals.
Dr. Cameron Mantor, the chief medical officer for Oklahoma Children’s Hospital at OU Health, told The Oklahoman that in the past two months R.S.V. cases in the state had been “exponentially off the charts.”
“Surges in R.S.V. infections have also been reported in places like New Zealand, where it is currently winter. Experts there say that children may be more vulnerable than usual to seasonal viruses and infections because they were underexposed to germs during lockdowns early in the pandemic.”
Oh wow you would have thought. Just like I said above ” more vulnerable than usual to seasonal viruses and infections because they were underexposed to germs during lockdowns early in the pandemic.”
Feel free to take down the RSV conspiracy posts Sabrina…..
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/01/world/delta-variant-kids-infections.html
WP,
What are you concluding? That RSV is a bigger problem for children’s hospitals in Florida than Covid? That it is just as bad? Because none of the articles say that and I can’t find any data to support those conclusions. What I am seeing is hundreds of articles about how Florida children hospitals are being overun by Covid. Your articles merely say that RSV is also a problem.
“What are you concluding? That RSV is a bigger problem for children’s hospitals in Florida than Covid?”
I’m saying for children it’s just as big of a problem per all of the Dr.’s and hospitals cited in the umpteen articles cited above.
The CDC says it kills up to 500 children every year and causes 58,000 child hospitalizations and the south just got crushed with it. The worst outbreak in years of RSV per the reports.
What set me off is (i) Sabrina labeling me a conspiracy theorist for merely citing the RSV uptick which the CDC and Health Departments all in the South are clearly warning about, (ii) she said all the kids with respiratory illnesses in the hospital have Covid in Arkansas which is clearly not true per the reports out of Little Rock, (iii) you clearly dismissed the articles on RSV as you didn’t like the sources so I presented you with more sources, (iv) the prevailing group think is that Delta is more dangerous for kids which again Dr. after Dr. including Chicago’s own Dr. Allison Arwady says it’s only more virulent not more dangerous.
Given that RSV and parainfluenza have the same/similar symptoms as Covid and we know that RSV and parainfluenza affect kids much worse than adults whereas the risk pendulum for Covid decreases the younger you are.
Could it be people in the media are being lazy and pushing narratives (which we have seen plenty of) incorrectly correlating a rise in Covid positive cases in kids with kids going to the hospital with respiratory illnesses incorrectly assuming it’s all Covid related when there’s also a significant outbreak of other respiratory illnesses (RSV and parainfluenza) which is the worst outbreak in years in the same areas at the same time that we know lead to 58,000 kids going to hospital every single year.
There has been no academic papers showing that Delta is more dangerous for kids (or anyone) than previous Covid strains. Only that it’s more virulent.
Mississippi opening up a field hospital in a hospital garage as the Feds surge in medical personnel.
But if you’re vaccinated the pandemic is over.
Lol.
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2021/08/11/mississippi-covid-19-hospitalization-spike-leads-field-hospital/5567349001/
“I’m saying for children it’s just as big of a problem per all of the Dr.’s and hospitals cited in the umpteen articles cited above.”
Who cares???
You have switched the goal posts again.
The fact is, COVID has overwhelmed the pediatric hospitals. If not for COVID, they’d be handling the RSV cases, right??? Okay then. But COVID is adding hundreds of cases to these hospitals across the south.
And what you don’t understand WP, is that only the bigger cities even HAVE a pediatric hospital. If your child is that critical in a smaller, rural hospital, normally they will move them to the big city pediatric hospital for more expert care. That’s why the helicopters are always bringing in the patients to Chicago’s Lurie. But when Lurie is filled up, where do those kids go???
Some states literally have only a handful of pediatric beds open.
It’s a crisis if your child needs one. It’s a crisis for the entire medical community. This is what we were trying to avoid with lockdowns last year.
It’s ironic that we have the vaccine and NOW is when our hospital system is overwhelmed in several states.
So sad. It didn’t have to be like this.
The vaccine should never have been politicized. It’s the Trump vaccine.
If two viruses are equally dangerous but one is more virulent, then the more virulent is your primary target.
Hospitals test for the viral type, certainly on admission. If a hospital says it has X number of covid cases, then it has that many covid cases. Hospitalists don’t quess which virus they are treating.
For Arkansas data, check Arkansas Children’s Hospital website and/or Arkansas Center for Health Improvement website.
Endless ranting about who has the correct numbers or information sources and citing two week old stats in such a rapidly changing environment is a fool’s errand.
WP,
Unfortunately there is just not good data out there – that I can find. I did find that there were 179 kids hospitalized across Florida with Covid. No corresponding numbers for RSV. So, sure, RSV may be just as bad as not worse. It might also be the case that Covid is worse.
As for how dangerous Delta is…it might not have a higher case fatality rate but just by virtue of the fact that it spreads easier makes it more deadly.
I’m blaming windmills for this whole discussion.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/08/12/more-than-200-lollapalooza-attendees-got-covid-19-but-it-wasnt-a-super-spreader-event-citys-top-doc-says/
Chicago’s top doctor said 203 people who attended Lollapalooza tested positive for COVID-19 in the two weeks since the event began at Grant Park.
Chicago Dept. of Public Health Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady said the results do not indicate Lollapalooza was a super-spreader event, saying officials predicted seeing about 200 new cases.
This might be jumping the gun a bit, but appears to be good news so far.
“Chicago Dept. of Public Health Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady said the results do not indicate Lollapalooza was a super-spreader event, saying officials predicted seeing about 200 new cases.
This might be jumping the gun a bit, but appears to be good news so far.”
But if 1 COVID positive person with the Delta variant spreads it to 9 people, they could still be spreading it to quite a few people, right?
I’m thinking of the 14 Provincetown tourists who ended up infecting 900 people.
Yikes.
“The vaccine should never have been politicized. It’s the Trump vaccine.”
Yet you politicize the vaccine with the next sentence.
“So now it’s been pushed back another 3 weeks.”
No. The cases have peaked in the south. Ro rates are down to 1.0 in Arkansas and Louisiana, below 1.0 in Nevada, and significantly moving down in Florida at 1.08 as of August 10th.
Looks like Gottlieb called it correctly again.
https://twitter.com/ScottGottliebMD/status/1425267706677366792
“Yet you politicize the vaccine with the next sentence.”
Yes. Intentionally WP.
How could it be politicized when it was created in Operation Warp Speed by Trump? Why did the Republicans allow it to happen? But here we are with a huge chunk of Republicans still believing its a hoax and that the vaccine is poison.
So sad. It shouldn’t be like this. A real breakdown in leadership.
“No. The cases have peaked in the south. Ro rates are down to 1.0 in Arkansas and Louisiana, below 1.0 in Nevada, and significantly moving down in Florida at 1.08 as of August 10th.”
I’m praying that’s so. It’s been over 6 weeks of a surge now. And behavior hasn’t changed in Florida. They’re still eating indoors in air conditioning even with the virus circulating everywhere. I don’t know how they get ahead of it with that happening.
By the way, there was just an assisted living outbreak in Carol Stream. Over a dozen cases. 90% of the residents and workers are vaccinated so the impacts are muted, thank goodness.
The vaccine is a miracle.
“But here we are with a huge chunk of Republicans still believing its a hoax and that the vaccine is poison”
Didn’t realize there were so many republicans on the south and west sides along with the south burbs but ok.
Your way of thinking is simply “blame the voters” instead of looking at the failure of the institutions and the people running them. They are doing nothing to reach out to non-upper middle class white people and the Campaign Donors. They have no clue how to reach out to half the country.
Given that Biden is a devout Catholic he really can’t find conservative messengers in the “Bible Belt”? Why? Oh yeah he hasn’t picked up the dang phone.
His strategy is lets send Psaki, Facui, or Walenksi on the Sunday shows each week. It’s not the 90’s anymore. Biden is about as bad with covid strategy and messaging as Trump was.
How many hundreds of millions of dollars did his campaign spend on ads, community organizers, surrogates, events, etc. just to get elected (i should scratch the event one since he sat in his basement all last year).
This is literally what he has done every 4 – 6 years for like half a century is create marketing campaigns for himself, Obama, and the Democrat Party. He has done jack since getting into office on a Covid vaccine campaign strategy. It’s pathetic.
But sure blame the voters….
“Given that Biden is a devout Catholic he really can’t find conservative messengers in the “Bible Belt”? Why? Oh yeah he hasn’t picked up the dang phone.”
Huh?
They have gone to the churches who have set up vaccinations. They have gone to beauty shops and barbershops. They have used celebrities. They have used influencers. They have gone door to door (until that was demonized by the Republicans.) They have used the lure of the lottery.
None of it has worked.
Yet somehow Maine has managed to get 80% at least one shot. So some states have been successful. It starts from the top down. If the Governor doesn’t push it, it doesn’t help.
“Yet somehow Maine has managed to get 80% at least one shot.”
————————–
Maine’s a bunch of old farts who have nothing better to do than go to bean suppers, replace the “r”s in words with “ah,” and get vaccinated.
And eat lobsters. They’re pretty big on lobsters.
We wouldn’t be seeing skyrocketing cases like we are with half the population vaccinated unless something is definitely afoot. And it appears there is.
We don’t need to wait for the Lambda variant that is supposedly vaccine resistant it appears the Delta variant is also vaccine resistant at least on the Pfizer jab.
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/wakeup-call-pfizer-vax-only-42-effective-against-infection-july
The CDC is really covering themselves in glory
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/12/texas-rsv-covid-19-childrens-hospitals/
I’ll ask again…. why isn’t Biden sending Navy hospital ships to Florida/Texas/Louisiana like Trump did for New York/California/New Jersey?
Because CA/NY/NJ requested federal aid and FL/TX/LA have not.
Mississippi has now requested a military hospital ship, so we can compare apples to apples. Let’s see how the Biden admin responds.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/mississippi-asks-for-military-hospital-ship-with-icus-days-from-collapse-from-covid-cases
“The CDC is really covering themselves in glory”
It’s almost by design that in the same week they conveniently say Florida’s cases are 3x higher (than what they actually were) and overcount children’s hospitalizations by over 7 fold in Texas.
New administration same politicization.
“None of it has worked [in Bible Belt]. Yet somehow Maine has managed to get 80% at least one shot. So some states have been successful.”
The diffs are that the Bible Belt has alot of blacks and Maine doesn’t. So the hateful rhetoric of your average dumb urban liberal, that it’s Trump voters not getting the jab is false.
“The vaccine should never have been politicized. It’s the Trump vaccine.”
What does that mean Sabrina? It’s the Trump vaccine? You are still so imbued with hate and TDS it’s amazing. Ding-dong Biden has let in 1,000,000 illegals thru the southern border and now he’s authorized 100,000 Afghans. If you had a shred of honesty about COVID and vaxx status, you’d be appalled and objecting. Hypocrisy.
The MAIN reason for “vaxx” hesitancy is not “politics”, it’s the fact that the shots are not vaccines, but newly created and untested mRNA gene therapy, so people are rightfully concerned about any potential side effects. There are some urban liberals who won’t eat a non-organic tomato, but willing lined up for the mystery shot.
Look, read up on Moderna. It’s a venture-capital backed hyper-capitalist company with a poor track record of mismanagement, scientists who quit over the last 10 years, has a CEO who wears finely tailored Italian suits and thinks he’s a celeb, etc. You all know these types of organizations: list of negative glassdoor reviews a mile long etc.
then you have Pfizer and J&J and AstraZeneca and Fauci and his people who have invested all their lives in this narrative. They love it, gives them reason to exist. It’s akin to if we had a collapse scenario: the preppers would all actually be happy, just to be proven right, and then get their chance to lead, and say “I told you so”.
Fauci is having the best time of his entire life right now. Get real.
““The CDC is really covering themselves in glory”
It’s almost by design that in the same week they conveniently say Florida’s cases are 3x higher (than what they actually were) and overcount children’s hospitalizations by over 7 fold in Texas.”
Huh? HTF did you come up with that? Because there was an error in a newspaper story? Where did the paper say that the CDC screwed up?
“The diffs are that the Bible Belt has alot of blacks and Maine doesn’t. So the hateful rhetoric of your average dumb urban liberal, that it’s Trump voters not getting the jab is false.”
As usualy you are just making up shit to fit your world view. Here is just one poll that shows you are wrong. https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/dashboard/kff-covid-19-vaccine-monitor-dashboard/
The white/ black divide is much smaller than the red/ blue divide and the black white divide is most likely more than due to the difference in education levels.
Unvaccinated America, In 5 Charts
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/unvaccinated-america-in-5-charts/
The 14 percent of Americans who are firmly opposed to getting the vaccine are overwhelmingly non-Hispanic white adults, they are much more likely to be insured, and they are more likely to identify as Republican.
“The 14 percent of Americans who are firmly opposed to getting the vaccine are overwhelmingly non-Hispanic white adults, they are much more likely to be insured, and they are more likely to identify as Republican.”
That does make sense. It is overwhelmingly intelligent and higher IQ people who are aware that the “vaxx” is not a vaccine, but instead a novel untested mRNA gene therapy.
There has been a mass vaxx campaign worldwide, on an untested gene therapy and amazingly, it’s all of you who have taken the shot who are going to be providing the very first data collection sample back to the CDC and the corporations for analysis.
The CDC is now telling pregnant women to take the shot, and there has never been a study about how all the mRNA spike protein production affects a fetus. Women are told not to smoke or drink, but taking an untested gene therapy is ok. Sinister.
” It is overwhelmingly intelligent and higher IQ people who are aware that the “vaxx” is not a vaccine, but instead a novel untested mRNA gene therapy. ”
———————————-
Helmet, you wouldn’t know gene therapy if it bit you on the ass.
“Helmet, you wouldn’t know Gene Therapy if he bit you on the ass.”
I think he did–summer of ’87 in Ibiza.
“Huh? HTF did you come up with that? Because there was an error in a newspaper story? Where did the paper say that the CDC screwed up?”
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fact-check-did-cdc-correct-florida-covid-numbers-after-record-high-posted/ar-AANf8tw?ocid=uxbndlbing
“Yet somehow Maine has managed to get 80% at least one shot. So some states have been successful. It starts from the top down. If the Governor doesn’t push it, it doesn’t help.”
Maine also has a wicked good director of disease control.
“Helmet, you wouldn’t know gene therapy if it bit you on the ass.”
johnc: Keep your trap shut. Science & math are not liberals’ strong suit.
Sabrina is going to have to eat some crow: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/08/12/texas-rsv-covid-19-childrens-hospitals/
Correction, Aug. 12, 2021: An earlier version of this story overstated the number of children who have been hospitalized in Texas recently with COVID-19. The story said over 5,800 children had been hospitalized during a seven-day period in August, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That number correctly referred to children hospitalized with COVID-19 since the pandemic began. In actuality, 783 children were admitted to Texas hospitals with COVID-19 between July 1 and Aug. 9 of this year.
That’s an overstatement (er, error) of 43x. There are 7 million children in TX and we’re talking 19 a day.
PS The jab is a gene therapy. They have to enclose the synthetic mRNA in nanoparticles in order to get it inside the human cell. I’m still reading and researching about what happens to the nanoparticles, which some say cause clotting or end up residing in ovaries. Not sure, so I’m not spreading disinfo. Everyone should read for themselves to determine what happens to the nanoparticles. If anyone finds out good info, let us know. thanks..
“Huh? HTF did you come up with that? Because there was an error in a newspaper story? Where did the paper say that the CDC screwed up?”
Look at the correction and how it’s worded. The paper says they got that number from the CDC which the CDC then had to correct since it was wrong.
“An earlier version of this story overstated the number of children who have been hospitalized in Texas recently with COVID-19. The story said over 5,800 children had been hospitalized during a seven-day period in August, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.”
This is the same week that the CDC also royally screwed up the case counts in Florida last weekend and had to walk it back after getting called out.
Which also comes at the same time the administration continues to go after Florida and Texas Governors.
Gee some coincidence…..
“It is overwhelmingly intelligent and higher IQ people who are aware that the “vaxx” is not a vaccine, but instead a novel untested mRNA gene therapy.”
Stop with the lies. I already showed you the poll data that it’s just the opposite of that – by a landslide. It’s the uneducated that are not getting vaccinated and it’s more of a determining factor than race.
JohnnyU and WP,
I wasn’t talking about the Florida error – just the Texas error. The way the error correction is worded in no way implies that the CDC gave them bad information. It says that the article said that the data came from the CDC not that the CDC misintrepreted their own data. There is no conspiracy by the CDC to politicize the virus.
The vax isn’t gene therapy, and fauci says that modifying spike proteins on corona viruses to make them more transmissible isn’t gain of function.
Reuters said the vax “technically isn’t” gene therapy using the US definition but is using the European definition.
I was going to get the J&J shot when our dear leader Fat Lard decided my skin color gave me enough Equity to permit me to get the shot; but apparently that stuff is poison and made a bunch of people sick.
Now I’ll never never never never never ever get a shot. You’ll have to put my against the wall and I still won’t take that shot. Never never never.
I’ve already had coronavirus like 7 or 8 times in 2021. It’s no big deal
For most healthy people. If you’re high risk, get the vax even the gene therapy. The risk outweighs the harm. All of my elderly conservative Trump loving relatives got the vax.
Gary – Sounds like fuzzy math
the data source was the CDC.
tRUsT ThE SCiEcE
those stupid PHD’s being vaccine hesitant! Just shut up and get your non FDA approved gene therapy that doesn’t even work!
https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/
“johnc: Keep your trap shut. Science & math are not liberals’ strong suit.”
——————————–
Helmet, I have news for you: I’m a quant.
And if you are still “researching” mRNA, then who are you to label it gene therapy or anything else?
Know your place, Helmie, know your place.
I’ve already had coronavirus like 7 or 8 times in 2021. It’s no big deal
Just shut up and get your non FDA approved gene therapy that doesn’t even work!
These posts read like parody.
https://unherd.com/thepost/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/
“The study employs a novel sampling method with a soft ask and low response rate, the effect of which has not yet been fully studied.”
Ironic!
“Now I’ll never never never never never ever get a shot. You’ll have to put my against the wall and I still won’t take that shot. Never never never.”
Promise us that you will never, never, never take up a hospital bed that someone else needs.
“What does that mean Sabrina? It’s the Trump vaccine?”
HH: Trump himself called the vaccine the “Trump vaccine” last year because it was his operation warp speed that brought it to the market so quickly. So Trump and the Trump Administration started calling it the “Trump vaccine” and taking credit for it.
The vaccine is not a “mystery shot.” The scientists have been working on this for 20 years.
It’s a miracle, actually.
And this technology will be able to be adapted for other diseases and viruses.
Throughout human history there have always been small minded men who have been too afraid of the changes that science has brought. It has led to death, incarcerations and censorship. Why did we think our era would be any different? There are still people who think the earth is flat, for goodness sakes.
“Just shut up and get your non FDA approved gene therapy that doesn’t even work!”
And if it doesn’t work then why are something like 98% of the Covid deaths now among the unvaccinated, who are dying at a rate of like 500+ per day?
“We wouldn’t be seeing skyrocketing cases like we are with half the population vaccinated unless something is definitely afoot. And it appears there is.”
Half the population is still millions of hosts, Bob. Millions.
Additionally, we know that vaccinated people can get it but they won’t end up in the hospital, which is really all we care about right now.
“Half the population is still millions of hosts, Bob. Millions.
Additionally, we know that vaccinated people can get it but they won’t end up in the hospital, which is really all we care about right now.”
WSJ article yesterday pointed out in Israel 60% of all severe cases were among the fully vaccinated. Also 90% of them are over 50 so no need for the younger vaxxed to worry.
So I don’t think “we know that vaccinated people… won’t end up in the hospital” is a valid statement. In Israel they most certainly are if they are over 50.
Everyone is still in a deep slumber that somehow the vaccinations are the silver bullet. The next month it is going to be made abundantly clear that they aren’t the silver bullet they are purported to be. They might be a regular bullet or a sword but no silver bullet.
“WSJ article yesterday pointed out in Israel 60% of all severe cases were among the fully vaccinated.”
Define “severe” as the word hospitalized means well hospitalized.
Also define how many “severe cases”
I can play a percent game with you. Chicago Covid deaths are up 200% per day over the past month. Translated into hard numbers that’s an increase from 1 to 3.
“The next month it is going to be made abundantly clear that they aren’t the silver bullet they are purported to be.”
The purpose of the vaccine was to prevent hospitalization and death. Not cases.
“They might be a regular bullet or a sword but no silver bullet.”
Maybe that’s why we are recommending booster shots……
Here’s the University of Minnesota putting this Tel Aviv study into perspective and not click bait.
“details breakthrough COVID-19 infections in 39 of 1,497 fully vaccinated Israeli healthcare workers, with most cases mild or moderate but 19% with symptoms lingering for more than 6 weeks.”
Is the definition of “severe” how long symptoms last?
“Thirty-one percent of infected workers reported persistent symptoms 14 days after their diagnosis, and 19% reported “long COVID” symptoms of loss of smell, cough, fatigue, weakness, shortness of breath, or muscle pain for more than 6 weeks. None were hospitalized. Of the 23% of workers who took a leave of absence from work for more than the mandatory 10-day quarantine, four returned to work within 2 weeks, and one still hadn’t returned after 6 weeks.”
0 hospitalized = 0 deaths.
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/07/israeli-study-finds-26-covid-breakthrough-infection-rate
“Everyone is still in a deep slumber that somehow the vaccinations are the silver bullet. The next month it is going to be made abundantly clear that they aren’t the silver bullet they are purported to be. They might be a regular bullet or a sword but no silver bullet.”
Bob: if they weren’t the silver bullet, the current US death rate would be back above 3,000 a day with this level of virus spread and hospitalization.
But it’s not.
By the way, it seemed like Florida might be peaking in cases last week but that looks like it was false hope.
Another new record for the week, although the rate in growth continues to slow, which is a good thing. Peak coming this week, perhaps?
Florida now recording 150 deaths a day, unfortunately.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/08/14/covid-education-department-texas-florida-school-mask-bans/8124540002/
Statewide, Florida set a record last week, reporting 151,415 new COVID-19 cases, according to the state health department.
The majority of Florida’s new cases are among individuals between the ages of 20 and 39, who remain among the least vaccinated age groups in the state.
Hospital officials are also seeing an influx of young, healthy adults filling their wards across the state, many requiring oxygen. In the past week in Florida, 36% of the deaths occurred in the under-65 population, compared with 17% in the same week last year when the state was experiencing a similar COVID surge.
Arkansas and Missouri may have peaked, however.
Good news!
Here’s what’s really weird about the Florida data and I can’t figure it out. Cases are still rising but deaths peaked a while ago and have fallen quite a bit from the peak. How does that happen? All the vulnerable started staying home?
“Republicans underestimate Joe Biden’s political skills at their peril.”
Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up – Fmr President Obama
https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1427202316512514050
“Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck things up – Fmr President Obama”
We had 4 years for the first time in my lifetime that we weren’t talking about war and uprisings in the middle east and in less than 7 months this dingbat who has been around for half a century has voted/supported all of these wars in the middle east completely screwed the pooch. Incompetence at its finest.
The fact that Blinkin has to say the words “this is not Saigon” or the comparisons to the Iranian Revolution back in 70’s shows you what a massive bleep up Biden just made.
All of the defense contractors and pro-war lobbyists are popping Champaign right now.
“Cases are still rising but deaths peaked a while ago and have fallen quite a bit from the peak. How does that happen?”
The most vaccinated group in the country and also the State of Florida are the elderly who are most at risk of dying from Covid.
It shows that the vaccine works. it’s primarily purpose was to prevent hospitalizations and death and secondarily lower the ability to spread the virus to others NOT to prevent infection.
” In the past week in Florida, 36% of the deaths occurred in the under-65 population, compared with 17% in the same week last year when the state was experiencing a similar COVID surge.”
This isn’t a shock as you point out right above: “The majority of Florida’s new cases are among individuals between the ages of 20 and 39, who remain among the least vaccinated age groups in the state.”
Again it’s not that the variant is “worse” (outside of transmissibility) or makes people “sicker” it’s older people have higher vaccine uptakes which were designed to reduce death and hospitalization along with lowering the ability to transmit the virus to others thus groups with lower vaccination rates are going to now make up more of the cases, hospitalizations and subsequently deaths.
Let me be more clear on what I find odd about the Florida data (from Worldometer). Cases have been skyrocketing since early July. Still are. Deaths actually started rising about the same time but those peaked Aug 6 and have dropped dramatically since. Vaccinations have not changed in the last month so are the demographics of the people infected in the last couple of weeks dramatically different than those infected a month ago? If so, why?
“Deaths actually started rising about the same time but those peaked Aug 6 and have dropped dramatically since.”
I’m not sure i’m seeing that. August 6th deaths were 93 with 66 7 day rolling average. August 10th deaths were 343 with 7 day average of 170.
On August 12th it was 29 deaths with 7 day rolling average of 136.
This change could just be eb and flow. I would think deaths would remain elevated and likely increase for the next 4 – 6 weeks.
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/state/florida
Interesting. What data do we believe? Here is the Worldometer data. Scroll down for deaths. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/
“What data do we believe? Here is the Worldometer data. Scroll down for deaths”
In the FAQ’s it says “Worldometer’s Covid-19 data is trusted and used by Johns Hopkins CSSE, Financial Times, The New York Times, Business Insider, and many others.”
Yet if I google Florida Covid deaths the chart that pops up is from the NYT’s which is reporting the same information as US News.
August 15th 7 day deaths are 153 up 162% over the past two weeks per NYT’s.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/florida-covid-cases.html
“Vaccinations have not changed in the last month so are the demographics of the people infected in the last couple of weeks dramatically different than those infected a month ago? If so, why?”
No, demographics haven’t changed Gary.
And I don’t see the deaths dropping. They have been rising in the state data which is what you would expect given that hospitalizations keep rising as well.
Louisiana saw another new record high in hospitalizations again today. Haven’t yet peaked in Louisiana. Ugh.
Florida covid cases about the same last week as the week before.
150,000
151,000 the week before
Have they peaked?
It’s looking like it which would be good news. But the kids just went back to school so we’ll see.
Unfortunately, there’s no peak yet in just about every other southern state.
The Midwest is next. Indiana looks terrible right now. St Louis still seeing increasing cases even though Springfield has apparently peaked. It’s only a matter of time for Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa.
Helmethofer,
Does this qualify as a famous person dying of Covid? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/phil-valentine-dies-covid-conservative-radio-host-vaccine-skeptic/
“Phil contracted the Covid virus a little over a week ago & has since been hospitalized & is in very serious condition, suffering from Covid Pneumonia and the attendant side effects,” the post said. “He is in the hospital in the critical care unit breathing with assistance but is NOT on a ventilator. We’d ask that everyone please refrain from contacting him while he is in the hospital.” Says the article…
But it turns out that he DID go on a ventilator….
https://www.wsmv.com/news/davidson_county/radio-talk-show-host-phil-valentine-dies-after-bout-with-covid-19/article_678aad0e-02c6-11ec-bae1-d3f3ac81a921.html
Statistically, his death at 61 is rare, very rare. According to the Lancet, it’s less than 0.64% with no underlying conditions. It’s just as likely he died from the vent, but that doesn’t make a national news story.
If you go on a ventilator because you have Covid then Covid killed you regardless of how you slice it.
I saw some interview or clip of a nurse saying that all unvaxxed people in her ward were going on vents ‘for their own good’ because the refused the vaccine. It’s like serial murder. Statistically this guy shouldn’t have died of coronavirus. But now CBS writes this poor mans obituary and calls him an anti-vax wingnut and gets hundreds of thousands of clicks!
Maybe you should send us a link to that interview because I have no idea what you are suggesting. That hospitals are intubating the unvaxed as a punishment?
You do know how statistics work, right? Small probabilities, large sample size, people die.
And this guy was an anti-vax wingnut. He got a doctor to prescribe ivermectin. Maybe that contributed to his death in some way. Guy was not playing with a full deck.
“And this guy was an anti-vax wingnut. He got a doctor to prescribe ivermectin. Maybe that contributed to his death in some way. Guy was not playing with a full deck.”
You mean he was advocating against forced experimental injections, keep your terms right. As for ivermeticin, either it works, or it doesn’t, follow the science. India seemed to have great success with it until the WHO forced them to remove it from their regimen, you know, the same WHO that found no evidence of the bat virus coming from a lab in Wuhan. Nope, no way, never.
Most people who want to use ivermeticin accept the science behind it; and the institutions against it, well, they’re the same people who tell us that masks work.
Also, again, another study, cloth and surgical face diapers don’t work
https://nypost.com/2021/08/22/study-finds-n95-masks-more-effective-than-surgical-cloth-masks/
“The results show that a standard surgical and three-ply cloth masks … filter at apparent efficiencies of only 12.4% and 9.8%, respectively,” according to the University of Waterloo study’s conclusion.” Which means they let 90% of the bad stuff through! Which means they are useless for reducing the transmission of coronavirus. It takes only one particle of CV to get you sick and masks filter out less than 10% of that.
But now, Cook County, starting Monday, is making everyone wear masks indoors. Because magic, and fake sCiEnCe, and folk medicine, are *exactly* what Cook County needs to reduce coronavirus transmission.
Crime? HHaahaa, that’s not a thing to worry about in Cook County, but folk medicine masks? Oh you must wear those or go to jail!
The nutjob changed his tune on the vaccine in the end, didn’t he? I guess he decided he underestimated the risk of Covid.
I wouldn’t depend on the NY Post to interpret technical studies but I would agree that cloth masks are pretty useless. I’ve been uncomfortable with them from the start. A bit surprised that surgical masks don’t do better but then I’d need to understand how the test particle size compares to what really comes out of an infected person’s mouth. And when a person talks visible drops of saliva fly from their mouth so I know for a fact that surgical masks stop those.
I find it interesting that when Trump got Covid they did not treat him with hyrdroxychloroquine. Hmmm.
“If you go on a ventilator because you have Covid then Covid killed you regardless of how you slice it.”
Yep. So tired of those who are saying all these people died of some underlying condition. If not for the COVID, they wouldn’t be dead.
I know someone who got COVID earlier this year before the vaccine rolled out to everyone. He was 55. No underlying conditions. It attacked his lungs. He was in the hospital for 3 weeks and then they had to put him on the vent. His lungs were shot. He needed a double lung transplant to live. But the docs wanted him stabilized before they attempted it. A few weeks into the vent, he had a stroke.
They ruled out the double lung transplant.
It was over.
He died two weeks after the stroke.
The stroke is what killed him HD. But if not for Covid, and going on the vent for weeks, he likely wouldn’t have had the stroke.
It was counted as a COVID death, as it should be.
It’s so sad what is going on out there right now. My friend didn’t have a choice of the vaccine, as it wasn’t available yet, but everyone else does NOW.
Get vaccinated.
“Statistically, his death at 61 is rare, very rare. According to the Lancet, it’s less than 0.64% with no underlying conditions. It’s just as likely he died from the vent, but that doesn’t make a national news story.”
Damn those statistics.
What about this other conservative talk show host who recently died of it?
He was a little older.
So, so sad. All of this could be avoided.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-radio-newsmax-host-who-opposed-covid-vaccine-dies-covid-n1276304
“I find it interesting that when Trump got Covid they did not treat him with hyrdroxychloroquine. Hmmm.”
Trump told the MAGA cult over the weekend at his rally in Alabama to get the vaccine and they booed him.
That pretty much sums up where we are right now.
Also, those who are dying of COVID in Florida are in interesting demographics. Despite the high numbers of those over 65 who are vaccinated in the state, there is still about a million people in that age group who aren’t. The virus is still finding the elderly hosts and killing them.
In Florida, it’s still killing more of the elderly than any other age group.
So sad.
By the way, here in Illinois, cases are slowly rising but hospitalizations are rising faster.
This will be the scenario across the rest of the country that doesn’t have the south’s outbreaks. The Delta Variant isn’t like the original outbreak. It’s going to spread further and faster. It’s impossible to stop through masks or social distancing. It spreads within 8 seconds.
The only way to protect yourself is through the vaccine.
https://patch.com/missouri/stlouis/husband-mo-republican-congressional-candidate-dies-covid-19
So sad.
“Steve Walsh, the husband of Republican state legislator and U.S. congressional candidate Sara Walsh, has died after being diagnosed with COVID-19, according to an announcement posted to Twitter. He was unvaccinated and had been on a ventilator since early August.
Both Steve and Sara Walsh, who was also unvaccinated, were diagnosed with COVID-19 earlier this month.”
“Sara Walsh told local CBS affiliate KRCG on Aug. 5 that since she and her husband had gone for more than a year without contracting the coronavirus, she hadn’t seen the need for them to get vaccinated. She also said she was concerned about risks associated with the shot, adding that vaccines should be a personal choice.”
https://patch.com/missouri/stlouis/husband-mo-republican-congressional-candidate-dies-covid-19
Here’s the latest modeling data from the Mayo Clinic. Georgia is next. Just 42% fully vaccinated.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/model-predicts-georgia-could-see-20k-daily-covid-19-cases-by-sept-2/AR53X3YO4BFATAO7R2YLAP7AJ4/
Here are the top 10 states by case-rate by Sept. 1:
Georgia: 177 per 100K people; 15,500 average daily cases
Mississippi: 135 per 100k; 4,017 cases
Alabama: 129 per 100k; 6,325 cases
Louisiana: 129 per 100k; 5,996 cases
West Virginia: 125 per 100k; 2,240 cases
Oregon: 115 per 100k; 4,850 cases
Kentucky: 114 per 100k; 5,093 cases
Tennessee: 105 per 100k; 7,170 cases
Texas: 91 per 100k; 26,286 cases
Florida: 82 per 100k; 17,611 cases
Helmethofer,
Here’s another one for you. Probably someone you admired: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-radio-newsmax-host-who-opposed-covid-vaccine-dies-covid-n1276304
Once again the government wants us to change our clocks this weekend. There is no benefit to this. It does not save energy and any data that claims it does is suspect. You can’t believe anything the government says.
Changing our clocks is detrimental to our health. It screws up our Circadian Rythms and it sickens our children. It also has harmful social consequences and it gives us a false sense of security, thinking we are saving energy when we are not. There are better ways to save energy.
This is about social control vs. individual freedom. It’s tyranny. They can’t make us change our clocks and we should not comply.
“Once again the government wants us to change our clocks this weekend. There is no benefit to this. It does not save energy and any data that claims it does is suspect. You can’t believe anything the government says.
Changing our clocks is detrimental to our health. It screws up our Circadian Rythms and it sickens our children. It also has harmful social consequences and it gives us a false sense of security, thinking we are saving energy when we are not. There are better ways to save energy.
This is about social control vs. individual freedom. It’s tyranny. They can’t make us change our clocks and we should not comply.”
Lol Gary.
Is there a current string of market conditions in Printers Row or South Loop? Specifically, I see several units for sale at 523 S. Plymouth Court any information on this building?