On the Market for Over 3 Years and Now a Short Sale: 3800 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview
This 3-bedroom vintage unit at 3800 N. Lake Shore Drive in Lakeview has been on and off the market since June 2007.
It is now a short sale and is listed for $229,000 under the original 2007 listing price.
It is also listed for $32,500 under the 2000 purchase price.
The building was constructed in 1927 and has 94 units.
There is rental parking available on-site for $170 a month, which is somewhat rare for the big vintage condo/co-op buildings on the Drive.
The unit has some of its vintage features including an 18 foot gallery foyer with coved ceilings and crown molding.
There is space-pac cooling but no in-unit washer/dryer (though it looks like, from other units, it can be installed.)
Unit #5E which has no pictures but the listing says has a new kitchen is also on the market and has just been reduced to $314,999.
How low will these large vintage condos go before they sell?
Maria Schmidt at @Properties has the listing. See the pictures here.
Unit #14E: 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2150 square feet
- Sold in December 2000 for $372,500
- Originally listed in June 2007 for $569,000
- On and off the market and reduced several times
- Lis pendens foreclosure filed on April 2010
- Reduced
- Currently listed as a “short sale” for $340,000
- Parking is rental at $170 a month
- Assessments of $1150 a month (includes heat, cable)
- Taxes of $7909
- Space pac cooling
- No in-unit washer/dryer (looks like it can be added)
- Bedroom #1: 17×12
- Bedroom #2: 16×12
- Bedroom #3: 10×9
I toured this condo years ago when looking for my current condo. The small bedroom is really like a closet and behind the kitchen. Not really a bedroom. Desk/office area at best. Still I’m surprised that there were no takers over the years. There was a lot worse on the market. Any issues with the building itself?
$21,709 a year to live there before you make any mortgage payment….why do people live in buildings like these? At some point will they have to be torn down because no one will be willing to pay to maintain them?
Assessments+taxes+parking. I love vintage and all but there has to be a better option out there.
wait, are the taxes included in the assessment figure above? I get confused with co-ops.
$1979 before mortgage with parking… so what would a place like this rent for? 2700?
@ roscoevillager…..This isn’t a co-op, it’s a condo. Co-op buildings do include taxes in the monthly maintience since they pay tax under 1 PIN number. Typically I don’t think Co-op’s allow financing, or very low LTV like
thanks Chris!
so who is willing to spend as much if not more on assessments + taxes + parking than on their mortgage? when does it make sense to do that, if ever?
“At some point will they have to be torn down because no one will be willing to pay to maintain them?”
chris, I agree – it will definitely be interesting to see what happens on ELSD. I still am friends with many of my neighbors and, although, they don’t really care what happens after they die (and most of them plan on dying in their places), there has been a HUGE decline in interest in buying in these buildings (and not just because of the economy). Vintage is just not popular at all with the younger people. It is next to impossible to sell these places now and I don’t think it is going to get any better. The only thing ELSD has going for it is the location and prestige of address. Places like the one featured here have neither. I would be VERY cautious about buying in a building like this.
oh gosh could the interior do anymore dis-justice to the exterior?
the inside of this place looks like a wackazz town home in northbrook, wait not even that good lets say Sclumburg.
….why do people live in buildings like these?
Because when you are rich
it sucks to be near poor people
“when does it make sense to do that, if ever?”
when you want the inflation protection that renters get, while having the immobility and risk of owing the bank 340 thousand dollars at the same time?
“when does it make sense to do that, if ever?”
If you take a bunch of drugs…it might.
Its possible the building is saving for a major expense like an elevator upgrade or facade or window replacement. Then the high assessment makes sense. Or it could be managed by one of the giant management companies with all union staff. Please dont forget to give your obligatory ( recomended ) $100 christmas gift to the doorstaff at the front desk. Actual note left under door.
“Please dont forget to give your obligatory ( recomended ) $100 christmas gift to the doorstaff at the front desk. Actual note left under door.”
Marko…I’m glad you raised the issue of holiday tipping at buildings. I know we addressed this a bit last season, but I’d be curious to hear from folks anew.
If you’re moving out of a place right now, would you feel obligated to go back and tip the staff?
Thank you anonny for bringing up tipping. I’m renting in a building with 5 separate door people/concierge. I do not use them for concierge service. What is the appropriate amount to tip each for the holidays? Any suggestions are appreciated.
“I’m glad you raised the issue of holiday tipping at buildings. I know we addressed this a bit last season, but I’d be curious to hear from folks anew”
they should be happy they have jobs – I, for one, am tired of the obligatory tips that each and every service provider expects at the holiday. Seriously, over a thousand dollars a season for things I already pay for. Ridiculous.
I live in this building and I don’t think people have all the facts… The monthly assessment includes heat, cable, internet, maintenance, capital reserve, on-site management, etc. There is no doorman which I like. Unlike most vintage buildings, parking is available in the back of the building and the garage is serviced 24/7. There are only 85 units in the building, although it looks much larger in the photo. This unit is the smallest floor plan in the building (excluding the low rise).
This particular unit obviously needs to be updated. However, once remodeled it could be incredible space. It has the original molding, high ceilings, trim, fireplace, etc. Unlike most “new” buildings, this place is built solid. Each apartment is like a single family home, very private and you cannot hear your neighbors. I’ve lived in other condos around the city and you cannot compare the quality of this building to those built in the 80’s and 90’s.
Granted, you have to be a vintage lover to appreciate the Lake Shore Drive vintage buildings. But please do your math! Monthly fees are high – but they include things that newer buildings don’t include. Also, taxes are much lower than a newer building which off-sets the higher maintenance fees. All in, the monthly fees are competitive.
Vintage,
The unit and building are actually very nice. As someone who LOVES vintage buildings/details, I see great value in this type of living. My question to you is: Do you think it is a wise financial decision to be buying in a vintage building? I am serious when I said that my neighbors on ELSD are having a VERY difficult time selling their properties because it seems like 99% of people want new, newer or more modern places. The apprciation for vintage is rapidly decreasing. Younger people (under 40) may never have even seen an older home with real vintage detail. I got out of my unit because I was getting very nervous that I would never be able to sell (even at a steep discount). Even with the unit paid off, my assessments were 2600/month (lowest in the building) – that cost would kill me if I had to move.
Clio, I bought my place at the high of the market at 40! I know I’ve lost money, but not unhappy about getting “stuck” in such a great place. If I lived in the Gold Coast (3 miles), my taxes would be 2.5 times more and I’d be in some condo with little character and very little light. If “hindsight was foresight” would I have bought vintage? No. Would I buy vintage today? Yes -because everything is a steal. These places are selling for less than the material costs to build them. Things will turn around…
This is one of my favorite buildings and the apartment shown is gorgeous. It needs some updating, but not much.
But this building is a maintenance nightmare and always has been. The maintenance is still steep even considering what it includes, and there was a period of about 5 years when I saw scaffolding in front of the place every time I passed.
Great place, but be prepared for high costs. These large old vintage high rises simply are much more expensive to maintain.
Yikes. I like these kinds of properties, but I assumed those assessments included a doorman. What an assessment nightmare.
I don’t think it’s that younger buyers don’t want to buy vintage, they just don’t want to be paying upwards of $1,000 a month in assessments when they also have a mortgage and taxes to consider. Especially those of us who also have to consider schools.
And daycare and student loans and credit cards. EArlier this evening I had a conversation with a married friend in south florida and he commented that between us four 30+ year old professionals there wasn’t even one homeowner. You can have a $100k plus household and after the $1,400 a month daycare, the car payment, the student loans, the credit cards and other random monthly payments, the last thing in the world younger people want to do is take on a $1,000 a month association payment (even IF it includes cable) + PITI. Home prices are in for a long downward trend if you’re going to rely on today’s youth and first time home buyers to prop it up.
HD – these costs have ALWAYS been there and yet real estate has managed to survive and appreciate. You may feel these pressures because of your age and stage in life? I remember when I was 30 (just over 10 years ago) and I didn’t think that I could afford drapes from JC Penney for the TOWNHOUSE I was living in (the cost was 14k for the whole house). I completely remember being at Burger King and calling one of my new partners and asking her how could anyone in the world afford this stuff, etc. Then, after a few years, you pay off more and more, invest a little and before you know it, you will be fine. The sky is not falling – everything WILL be OK.
“Home prices are in for a long downward trend if you’re going to rely on today’s youth”
and your 4 friends spending habits…
Clio, hahahaha. The sky is not falling, its called reality. And crazy enough, I’ve got it better than probably 80 or 85% of all households out there.
“The sky is not falling, its called reality”
You are right – and “reality” has been around for a long time and the housing market survived and appreciated quite nicely during those times – so don’t worry. Enjoy your 30s – you can’t turn back time.
“and “reality” has been around for a long time and the housing market survived and appreciated quite nicely during those times – so don’t worry.”
The only era the last 3 years can be compared to is the Great Depression (for real estate prices, anyway.) Real estate didn’t rebound for decades (and that’s only after the war when many soliders moved back to the United States enmass.) So- I doubt much is going to “appreciate quite nicely” in the next decade or longer.
Heck- we’re not even at the bottom yet. Many forecasters are predicting another 7% to 10% decline in prices in 2011. (that is nationwide.) And we’ve already seen here in Chicago that the double dip is hitting hard right now.
The bubble was fueled by cheap credit. That’s not coming back. If anything- it continues to tighten.
growing up I remember the times driving down LSD and seeing these buildings, and asking myself as a child: “who lives in these places”???? These buildings (mid-block, random, i.e. 3600 north) remind me of places in cities like Baltimore, St. Louis (near Wash U.) that try and act like they are civilized urban NYC locales, but they seem still weird to me. They don’t pass the test…. Who actually lives in these buildings??????
Who lives here? All types of people. I had college friends who lived at 3950 n lsd; I’ve got a good friend stuck in 3600 n lsd; his neighbor a late 20’s professional just walked away from her studio to take a job out of state..some retirees, all types of people. You’d be surprised.
I find it funny that some people think that one of these days the real estate market is going to return, sort of like flipping a light switch on, the market will again appreciate. But it’s not like that. There’s been three years of nothing but horrific depression-era news coming from every aspect of the housing industry.
It’s more akin to being diagnosed with a serious but curable medical condition. Yes, you will survive, but it’s a long road to recovery and the medicine may be worse than the disease. And that’s the housing market where we are now and will continue to be for quite some time into the foreseeable future. In 2007 I figured it would start improving in 2012; and now that 2011 is just around the corner I even I didn’t fully appreciate the extraordinary circumstances we are in, and 2012 may come and go without an appreciable recovery. Which is unfortunate for everyone involved, it really is, yet at the same time it’s fascinating because I’ve been following financial markets since I was a kid and I’ve never seen anything quite like this, not the S&L, not the 87 crash, even the internet bubble was huge; but this, this is something for the history books. And when the building bubble in China bursts, that’s going to be the shot heard around the world.
Pre-war is still selling because there are many people who choose not to live in cheesy drywall boxes. I see that a 1/1 just sold at 70 E. Scott (#605) for close to $410,000. I looked at it, it needed at least $75,000 in rehab, no parking, no in unit laundry, There is another 1/1 there on the market for $499,000. Yes folks, the pre-war market is so dead…
Not everyone throws nickels around like hubcaps. The cheapest solution is not for everyone.
One thing people have to realize is that while the overall real estate market is not doing well, there ARE pockets that are doing quite well. In Oak Brook, things are actually going under contract and selling. People are NOT going to put their lives on hold for a decade to save a few bucks. I see people with a good income, stable job, a little money in the bank making that move. Sure, they are not moving to a 2/2 in Edgewater or S. Loop, but they ARE buying in Oak Brook. A single lot (w/ a tear down house) across the street from me went under contract in less than a wekk (at 1.6 million). Another much much smaller lot (right across the street) w/ an uninhabitable house just closed for 915k. They just started construction on a 3rd house (10000 sq. ft) across the street 3 weeks ago. So you see why it is hard for me to share in the doom-and-gloom attitude that most of you have (also, didn’t a “back and forth” just occur on another thread regarding another area in the city where SFH are selling fast for over a million?). It truly is all relative. I guess the lesson/point is to buy in a desireable location/building and you should be fine.
Dan, as a St. Louis native and one who lived on the West End of the city until I moved here in 1987, I would NOT compare the area around Washington University there with the 3600 block north here, or even Rogers Park. No comparison at all.
The St. Louis neighborhood of which you speak was and still is one HELL of a dangerous neighborhood. It makes Rogers Park and Uptown look very sweet and safe compared. The whole West End from Sarah St clear up to Skinker is still very trendy and expensive, but you can’t safely stand on the street and wait for a bus. St. Louis is one of the two or three most dangerous cities in the U.S. and that part of it has been plagued with street crime since the early 60s.
By contrast, the 3600 block of LSD is one of the safest places in the Midwest, and Rogers Park south of Farwell is safe enough for me to feel OK walking around at 10PM, which I would never, ever do in the area around Washington U in St. Louis, or anywhere else there. I have no car and am on buses and trains at extremely weird hours, and the worst problem I’ve had in Chicago is getting shoved around the bank lobby of the Harris Bank by some street woman who pushed in front of me in line to try to cash an old check she found on the street.
Getting back to one of the early posts:
That “small bedroom in back of the kitchen” was probably the MAID’S room. (There was also a small bath nearby, right?) Lots of vintage condos and co-ops have them. After live-in servants went out of style these rooms were either eliminated for more kitchen space, or redefined as guest rooms or home offices.
I used to live a few doors away from this building and its co-op “sister” building across the street on Grace. I always felt like being transported to a vintage movie set whenever I walked by (or in rare cases into) these vintage beauties. Modern hi-rises just can’t match these places in terms of elegance and panache (which I,for one, giver higher value to,over granite/stainless cliches.)
“So you see why it is hard for me to share in the doom-and-gloom attitude that most of you have (also, didn’t a “back and forth” just occur on another thread regarding another area in the city where SFH are selling fast for over a million?).”
Oak Brook is an oasis amidst the total carnage happening everywhere else Clio. If you want to stick your head in the sand and say “Oak Brook is fine, so everything is great”- then so be it. Oak Brook is not 99% of the economy.
In the city of Chicago, there is now complete carnage going on in about 75% of the neighborhoods. Houses that sold for bubble prices of $350k to $450k are now selling for $100k to $200k (or less.) The wealth destruction is massive.
I hate to say it- but those homeowners won’t recover for a long, long time. And because they won’t- they also won’t be buying new kitchen appliances, new cars, iPads, flat panel televisions etc etc. The consumer is the engine of America’s economy. And he/she is gone – except those in Oak Brook. But they cannot sustain the economy. Hence, a nearly 10% unemployment rate in Illinois.
Personally, I’ve never seen anything like what I’m seeing in the outer Chicago neighborhoods now. Total destruction of housing prices.
“Personally, I’ve never seen anything like what I’m seeing in the outer Chicago neighborhoods now. Total destruction of housing prices”
as i have said since i first started posting here, my hood has move in ready 3-4 br places of 125-150k. how is a person like me to sell his over improved home without “blue light special” pricing. thats only my example and i am not under water at all i cant imagine being a person that is.
Sabrina is talking whole chicago area and i can believe its worse than we know.
Sabrina, i think you are highly underestimating the American consumer. And since when did people buy TV’s and crap for their house with their assessed home values? people use credit cards and cash for that junk and Americans are flush with both right now. Most retail companies are destroying estimates, yeah people aren’t using Helocs to buy cars and boats and vacations anymore but people have lots of other methods to pay for stuff too.
Anyone that doesn’t need to sell and keeps their jobs will be fine. The 10-15% that do need to sell or lost their jobs will be screwed, just like during boom times
“The 10-15% that do need to sell or lost their jobs will be screwed, just like during boom times”
Nah–during the boom, they could always get out of it at break even, usually they could walk away with $$. Now there are two differences: (1) f/c and or BK on their credit report, and (2) banks and/or investors in RMBS losing billions.
“I hate to say it- but those homeowners won’t recover for a long, long time. And because they won’t- they also won’t be buying new kitchen appliances, new cars, iPads, flat panel televisions etc etc.”
I disagree…..I know I can’t sell my place for a few years so I’ve decided to remodel my master bath this winter and will do my kitchen next year. Many people I know will be upgrading their homes with new appliances and electronics since they’ll be staying put for longer than expected. It’s renters that won’t be helping the economy move forward…..
chris,
but many used the Heloc’s to do major remodels, but i do get your point. the guy that put in my parents windows last year said to me that he is mad busy and he hears his clients say its because they are staying instead of moving.
“mad busy and he hears his clients say its because they are staying instead of moving”
Exactly….I needed some new drain scuppers on my building this fall and I had to call 7 contractors to get 3 bids…many of them are so busy that they turn down opportunites to bid or overbid because they’re to busy to do the job.
10% unemployment means 90% of people are still employed. Even in good times unemployment is still 3% or 4%, right? So the difference between high times and doom is 4 or 5 people of out 100 not working? Really?
“10% unemployment …. Even in good times unemployment is still 3% or 4%… difference between high times and doom is 4 or 5 …”
New Math?
But I agree, to some extent. But there is the related problem of how the slack in the labor pool affects wage increases.
Consumers didn’t use HELOCs to reset the credit cards? Home renovations are booming? Keep ’em coming, guys.
“overbid because they’re to busy to do the job.”
Oh gosh i hate that tactic, just say “this job is larger than my crew can handle” or “i wont be able to to it to your expectations” or just say “we are busy and wont be able to start until 6 months from now”
Sonies on November 19th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Sabrina, i think you are highly underestimating the American consumer. And since when did people buy TV’s and crap for their house with their assessed home values?
Are you serious?!
“But there is the related problem of how the slack in the labor pool affects wage increases.”
Not to mention what a doubling of UE does to the tax burden of paying the 99ers and keeping the souplines SNAPpin’.
The few contractors remaining are busy because the majority of them have gone out of business since 2007. My former-contractor BIL today works the nightshift in a warehouse and makes $14.00 an hour whereas he was making $70k a year or more a year doing GC work for a larger contractor, who went Chap 7 in 2008.
“#G on November 19th, 2010 at 11:02 am
Consumers didn’t use HELOCs to reset the credit cards? Home renovations are booming? Keep ‘em coming, guys.”
How big a burden is there to re-entry when it entails calling back guys to work and starting the pick-up truck? A supply-demand imbalance will not last long.
Chris,
The U-3 number is 10%, that’s people recently laid off and those receiving unemployment compensation.
Add in those who have stopped looking for work, no longer receive unemployment compensation, or are working part-time due to economic conditions and the number is closer to 17%, which is more than 1 in 6. Factor in those people like my aunt and father or the lady I met at Microcenter waiting in line on Saturday, those workers who chose to retire early b/c they can’t find work; they’re no longer in the labor pool, so they don’t even count in the U-6 number. They would work if they could find jobs but they can’t find jobs. Check out the 60 minutes story from a few weeks ago about the Silicon Valley’s unemployment rate among 40 and 50 year and 60 year olds who have exhausted unemployment.
Don’t forget how the credit card companies lopped available balances on users cards to the current balance or below. More and more people are putting their cards away and using them more strategically. Can’t assume that the average Schmoe making $50k a year is still going to user their cards indiscriminately.
homedelete,
I agree with your post…and the real unemployment figures. I used 10% because that’s the figure that Sabrina used in her post as I was refuting her comment.
What I’m trying to say is that regardless if unemployment is 10% or 17% we still have a functioning economy. So many people here are calling for utter doom. I’m in sales and my income in 2008-2009 was down 30% over what I made in 2006-2007. Sucks…but it wasn’t down 100%….businesses are still doing business. Yes, less of it than a few years ago….but the sky is not falling.
And of course a lot of contractors are busted now because their pool of available workers (including but not limited to border-jumpers and visa-extenders) has diminished.
The most important reason we will not have a real estate boom like that of the 2000s for a long time, is that the only reason the boom happened or was extended for so long is because of the manic expansion of credit… which is what’s killing us right now. No sane society runs up the kind of debt that fueled the manic house price appreciation of the early 00s.
In a truly productive economy based on savings, and investment in manufacturing and commerce, you do not see rampant asset inflation. We did not start to experience housing bubbles until, from the late 70s forward, we abandoned manufacturing in favor of financialization, which has been the downfall of every economy that made this particular shift.
If we are wise, we will revert to the lending standards that prevailed before that time- 20% down, with mortgages no more than 2.5X the borrowers’ income. And if we stop backing up our financial system with implicit guarantees of bailouts, and stop subsidizing the housing market by providing backup to the GSE’s like Fannie and Freddie, and also stop offering government guaranteed mortgages, lending will become EXTREMELY conservative.
Wow…I looked at 14E two years ago, and it seemed like yesterday. We worked without a real estate agent and saw the desperation in the seller’s eyes. We offered him $430 and he thought that was too low–no commission since the seller’s wife was a real estate agent. We knew how much he paid for it, but clearly he got greedy, thinking someone would pay more, so we walked away without a deal (we did this plenty of times with people like this guy thinking he could get more money). 3rd bedrooom was way too small, and we liked the hallways, though there was wasted space. Kitchen needed updating, but not a disaster. LSD units are a tough sell…this one was a condo building with high assessments but co-op units in buildings like 3750 will stay on the market for years. Two big issues: one, the last bedroom is usually a maid’s quarters that tends to be small; second, the assessments on these buildings are insane (and I’m not talking about the special assessments).
“We offered him $430 and he thought that was too low–no commission since the seller’s wife was a real estate agent. We knew how much he paid for it, but clearly he got greedy, thinking someone would pay more, so we walked away without a deal (we did this plenty of times with people like this guy thinking he could get more money)”
The sense of entitlement amazes me. It reminds me of a story I read awhile back about some Wall St institutional sales guy who was let go when WSJ was doing profiles of casualties of the great recession. He was almost talking with an entitlement attitude toward the 750k/yr he used to pull in and how his family would now have to suffer as they are accustomed to a certain standard of living.
These sorts of people elicit zero sympathy from me. They are adults, they never planned for anything less than an optimal outcome for the future and then whine/feel entitled/cheated when things turn out differently.
If your story is true Brian this seller deserves to flame out financially. Heck I hope this thing goes REO.
“lending will become EXTREMELY conservative.”
Yeah and hate to echo Steve Heitman here but wouldn’t that cause a huge correction in our..oh I don’t know $15+ trillion dollar real estate market? And lets not forget the impact that would have on municipalities dependent on RE taxes.
Although your position is the morally right one and should have been advice followed all along it won’t much help us now. We built ourselves a big ponzi economy based on asset price appreciation and there’s no easy or fast way out of it now.
“And if we stop backing up our financial system with implicit guarantees of bailouts, and stop subsidizing the housing market by providing backup to the GSE’s like Fannie and Freddie, and also stop offering government guaranteed mortgages, lending will become EXTREMELY conservative.”
The financial lobbyists are the puppet masters behind our politicians. They demanded a huge bailout two years ago with the threat of wrecking our financial system and our regulators not only blinked at the time, they allowed them to rewrite the rules on the “reform” passed earlier this year.
If you remove government intervention in the housing market entirely as of tomorrow though you’d have probably a 50+% decline in residential real estate values.
Hey Bob,
We offered 525K when it was listed at 565 ( I think); the owner (who is married to the listing agent) countered at 550. We were not willingly to go higher than 535K and they wouldn’t go much lower so we walked.
I wonder how many contracts they actually got on this place and rejected and NOW its in a short sale?